WEBVTT - Why Getting Fired Hurts So Bad 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.200 From executive search to talent strategy, leadership development, rewards and 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.880 succession planning. Corn Fairy can help you realize the full 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.879 potential of your people so you can take your business 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.520 where it wants to go up. Learn more at corn 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.040 Ferry dot com slash up here. A couple of obvious 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.120 facts about losing your job. It cuts you off from 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.840 a source of income, It interrupts your work history, It 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.840 makes it harder for you to find a new job. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.360 These are devastating effects. We're not going to talk about 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.160 them today. We're going to talk about the emotional side 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:44.080 of getting laid off. You're listening to game Plan. I'm 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.200 Sam Grobart. I am a writer at Bloomberg business Week magazine, 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.319 and I'm Rebecca Greenfield. I'm a reporter a Bloomberg where 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.840 I cover workplace culture and I want to start off 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.000 with a little bit of history and talk about the 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.600 word layoff. I looked it up and the online Etymology 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:05.760 Dictionary says that vas seasonal labor with periodic inactivity. The 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.760 word layoff came to have a sense of temporary release 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.440 from employment, but by the sixties was being used somewhat 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.600 euphemistically for permanent releases. Of masses of workers. Yeah, there 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.760 seems to be this distinction nowadays between getting laid off 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:26.080 and getting fired. Right, fired sounds like four cause, whereas 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.160 getting laid off is more of a cost cutting move. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.840 But they both result in the same thing. You don't 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.839 have a job anymore. Yeah, It's like getting laid off 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.280 is supposed to sound like this nice thing where you're 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.440 supposed to feel better because you didn't do anything wrong, right, 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.199 and yet you were picked as opposed to other people 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.360 who may still be there. Right. And companies have even 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.920 moved away from the word laoff to use even more 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.400 euphemistic terms to make people feel better about their plate. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.920 Like I saw the other day to tweet saying that 0:01:56.120 --> 0:02:01.400 Bridgewater isn't laying off employees, it's quote renovated in the company. Yeah, 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.880 they're going to have this great new caesar Stone countertop 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.440 in their kitchen after they renovate. Yeah, I mean, I 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.760 mean they're they're renovating the company in a way that 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.360 will be no room for you. Right, they're redoing the 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.040 kitchen and getting rid of your bedroom. Basically we're selling 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.800 your bedroom, honey. I remember in the nineties companies would 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.760 talk about not so much downsizing, but right sizing, See 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.040 it's all going to be okay. Is that supposed to 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.400 make you feel better? I think it just makes you 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.200 feel worse. And I think companies know that, and that's 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.760 you know, euphemism exist for a reason. They are there 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.440 to cover up something, and what they're covering up is 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.600 something very harsh and very dramatic. And we're actually going 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.240 to talk to someone who has recently gone through that. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.239 Brittany Ashley used to work at BuzzFeed. She doesn't anymore, 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.480 and she has very courageously agreed to sit with us 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:58.280 today and talk about the experience of getting booted. Hello, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.919 brittanys in good are you? I'm well, thank you? Why 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.120 don't if you don't mind, um, can you kind of 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:10.880 walk us through what happened? So? I worked at a 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:15.000 company that I wrote a lot of videos for and 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.320 acted in videos and whatnot. When I started with it, 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.680 it was a newer company. They were still figuring out, 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.880 you know, rules, regulations, what they allow employees to do. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.280 And so I acted in something that I suppose I 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.200 wasn't allowed to that it was on the weekend, and 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.960 it's very unclear whether or not that was against the rules. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.080 Because other people did that and whatnot. Yeah, and it 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.240 got brought up to me right after a trailer for 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.720 that series came out. I got brought up to me 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.520 by a manager and they asked me questions about it, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:49.320 and I kind of thought I was in the clear, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.960 Like I talked to some of my co workers and 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.880 they're like, you're fine, Like they're not going to fire you. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.200 That would be insane, and then zoom passed to Three 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.320 weeks later, I get called and to a meeting at 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.840 five thirty pm on a Thursday, and I get canned. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.760 So it was kind of it was definitely shocking and 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.400 I and that's the only job I've ever been fired from, 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.680 and to be fired from a creative job that you've 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:12.960 been working out for so long was kind of like 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.400 a wet just like tears come out and you're like, 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.320 what do I have to do? And then you like 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.960 feel weird and pathetic and sad. If you can remember, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.000 what was the first thing you did after you were fired? 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.280 I mean, you are in that meeting room, yes, and 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.040 you walk out? So what happens? So they fired me 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.320 and one other person at the exact same time for 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.920 the exact same reason because we're both in it, and 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.320 so a lot of it was like trying to take 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.560 care of this person who was breaking down next to me, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.280 and I was kind of the more stoic one, which 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.520 was a really interesting experience. We fired at the same 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.880 time as someone else, Um, so you both were in 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.000 the room together. Yeah, it was it was the HR woman, 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.880 It was yeah, Yeah, it was an HR woman who 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.039 I had never met until that day. And then it 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.560 was someone kind of higher up who I've maybe had 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.440 like one or two conversations with. And then yeah, and 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.560 then me and my coworker who were both fired at 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.320 the same time. So my instant thing was just to 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.400 take care of this other person because she was like 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.680 just breaking down, like balling, crying because that job was 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.920 like her dream job and it wasn't my dream job. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.120 It just like it was really brutal to get fired 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.359 and to put your time into something that you know 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.080 gets taken away so quickly. But the interesting thing is 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.560 that they held us in that room. So after we 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.960 were told that we were getting fired, the HR woman 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.440 was like, actually give me like five minutes, I'll be 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.279 right back, and they left the room and it was 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.240 just me and that other coworker sounds like a psychology experiment. Yeah. 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.560 I like I was looking around for like cameras. I 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.320 was like, oh god, what are they doing. You have 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.120 passed the exactly Honestly that was going through my mind 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.719 of like I didn't want to like trash talk the 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:58.919 company or be like yeah, whatever, fuck them. I like 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.080 didn't say anything because I was like, is this some 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.720 weird like manipulation scheme. I just assumed that they were 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.480 like going through my desk and like taking you know 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.359 what I mean, like taking all my ship or like 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.280 packing it up, or like wiping my computer. I just 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.000 assumed the worst. But yeah, So they held us in 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.479 there for like twenty minutes, and my coworker had a 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.480 phone on her, but I didn't bring anything with me. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:21.920 I didn't think I was getting fired. I thought I 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.280 was going to be told to not do it again. Um. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:25.640 And so she had her phone on her and she 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.559 was like texting a bunch of people that we worked 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.320 with saying what happened. And I was just like phoneless 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.880 and I had nothing, and um, as soon as she 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:36.360 came back and she was like, oh, yeah, by the way, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.159 you guys are still fired, Like I think it was 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.640 like some weird It was some weird thing where like 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.240 she wanted us to feel like she was going to 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.520 change her mind at some point. But then I found 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.680 out later that she went upstairs to tell there was 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.000 like a whole manager meeting where she told everyone that 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.440 we got fired, and it was like this big deal. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.720 It was really weird. And then she came back down 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.160 and was like, yeah, unfortunately you're still terminated it and 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.720 I was like okay, and then yeah, then I walked 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.280 to my desk and started to clean out my desk 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:09.240 and was crying. And the girl that I was casually 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.160 seeing at the time was there. And that's also a 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.400 really weird thing to happen when you're like casually dating 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.760 someone that you work with then you get fired. Uh, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.960 there was a whole another level that we did not consider. Yeah, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.320 and um, my writing partner was right across from me, 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.400 and I told him that I got fired, and it 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.560 was so weird, Like the floor was just silent, and um, 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.120 I was crying and other people were crying because it 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.800 was not necessarily like, oh my god, we lost Brittany, 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.720 like she's dying, but it was more like, oh, this 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.960 could happen to us at literally any moment, because we 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.840 thought that you were safe, because you were someone that 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.160 has paved the way for a lot of people that 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.440 have worked at this company, because you were kind of 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.920 one of the original creators here, Brittany, like you, I 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.360 I too have been fired. Oh yeah, yeah, I felt 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.640 like and in the years since that, I have a 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:03.280 different kind of under standing of the relationship between an 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.800 employee and an employer. And that's not to say I 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.760 have worked at some really great places since then, and 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.320 I you know, I genuinely really like working here now. 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.520 But no matter how much I like my job or 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.320 feel that the company I work for, you know, is 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.240 a good place to be, I still now have this 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:30.400 little piece of black coal in my brain that it's like, 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:35.440 you can never ever really trust them, right, Yeah, it's 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.880 not because it's not a human being. It's a corporation 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.920 and ultimately they're kind of out for what's the best 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:46.520 for their business. Yeah. It's crazy to hear you tell 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.240 the story of the day you got fired and how 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.360 quickly the relationship to the company changed, like oh god, yeah, 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.400 and how it felt really weird to you, And I 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.360 imagine it feels really weird it's really weird, and it 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.080 continues to be very weird because is a lot of 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.560 people that I'm friends with still work there. Obviously, it's 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.480 one of those companies that's like any time you go 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.080 into any social media, it's just like all over the place. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.680 And then to like go through your clothes and you 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.160 have so many clothes with that label on it, and 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.880 you're just like, I feel like I can't wear these anymore. Yeah, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.000 it is, you know, like except yeah, your your girlfriend 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.040 is a large corporate entity that yeah. Yeah. Another thing 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.120 that struck me about your story was even though you 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.360 you knew you did something wrong a little bit and 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.400 you just even said that wasn't your dream job, just 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.480 the act of getting fired seems really painful, no matter 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.000 what the situation is. Like you said you were just crying. 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.280 I imagine I would just immediately burst into yours in 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.040 this particular situation too. Obviously it was kind of public, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.200 and you know, I'm a writer, so I take things personally, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.040 and to be fired from a creative job that you 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.080 gave so much of your writing to and you wrote 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.000 about so many personal topics, it feels like it makes 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.400 you feel kind of dispensable as a person and as 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.160 a writer, like creatively, it really messed me up for 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.040 for I mean, it's still kind of messing me up, 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.600 to be honest, but and it's given me quite a 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.320 bit of writer's block because it's like, welly am I 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.760 writing this anyways, like if it's just gonna if someone's 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.560 just gonna fire me, and it's a weird It definitely 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.080 does feel like a breakup in a way where it's 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.240 like you've been cheated on before, been broken up with 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.720 before something, and then you just take it out on 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.840 everyone else for the next like two years. Yeah, I 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.520 was going to ask how you're feeling about working now 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.880 besides the writer's like forming another relationship with a company 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.560 or yeah, I mean, I it's definitely given me more 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.320 of a perspective as an independent creator that that now 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.160 it might be my chance to become a little more 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.440 independent in the way that I'll write something that I 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.600 really care about and then I'll pitch it to places. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.400 But it's kind of on my terms, and I can 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.040 pick and choose if I want to work with a company, 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.199 but I'll work with them as if we're client. It's 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.120 not that they're my boss. I think that's kind of 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.680 the relationship I'm trying to have right now, in the 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.360 relationship I think you can have as a creator that 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.600 you're not, you know, under a contract with them as 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.720 an employee full time. I think that's what I'm trying 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.280 to do right now, because yeah, I don't think I 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:21.480 could go and be someone's nine to five employee right now, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.440 especially if they owned intellectual property of what I was doing. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.440 It would be the exact same situation, and I feel 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.640 like I would I would be more afraid to do that. 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.560 So I think now it's given me the approach that 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.680 I want to be more independent in the way that 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.080 I can kind of choose which relationships I have, and 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.760 that feel like I'm under the reign of just one, 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.160 if that makes sense. I was wondering. I mean, I 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:48.319 know it's still what's been like three months now, June, Yeah, 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.880 like three three and a half months, so it's still 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:55.360 fairly recent, and I'm sure it's still really stings, um, 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.440 but I would pose it that barring it causing real 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:03.120 personal calamit, everyone should get fired once. Yeah, I mean, 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.240 I think it's a kind of a necessary experience. This 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.760 sounds so weird and like jaded and angsty, but I 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.040 think you need to have the experience of needing to 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.840 distance yourself a little bit from um a corporation, or 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.599 from a company, or from a job even and realize 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.640 that you know, it's not a forever thing, and that 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.200 at any given moment, you or the company can choose 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.720 to depart from one another, and that I think you 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.920 kind of have to look at jobs as temporary and 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:35.880 you know, do the best you can while you're there, 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.680 but realize that it could end. I mean, it's like 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.520 a relationship in those ways, but I think it is necessary. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.760 Though it definitely stings, but it gives you a perspective 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.640 that I think is necessary. Great. Well, thank you so 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.840 much for coming and talking to us about this painball topic. 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.960 I'm sure that it's not fun to rehash those emotions, 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.520 but I think I think it's interesting for everyone to 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.240 hear every working person totally. I think so as well. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:10.400 Thanks for being so candid. Yeah, you got it up. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.200 Happens when the power and potential of every employee and 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.640 leader in your workforce is released, and corn Fairy can 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.559 get you there by aligning your people to your strategy, attracting, developing, engaging, 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.000 and rewarding them to reach new heights. With corn Ferry, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.160 you get a partner who truly understands people, leadership, and 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.760 the new landscape of work, a partner who knows how 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.839 to take your business up. Learn more at corn Ferry 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:38.320 dot com slash up. So Brittany is obviously still dealing 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.199 with the emotional sting of being fired. I mean, it 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.560 just happened a few months ago, but I also wonder 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.920 if that sticks with you for the rest of your career. 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:50.760 And I don't think I have to wonder very much 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.760 because Sam, I am fired, That's right. Uh, not from here, um, 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.360 But I'm I am happy to tell you that fifteen 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.080 years after getting laid off, it still is with me. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.360 It is perhaps one of the most oddly defining moments 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.000 of my entire career for me, and it was horrible 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.760 when it happened, and I'm very, very fortunate that I've 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.880 been able to kind of bounce back from it, but 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.920 it's still kind of haunts me, and it's changed my 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.600 entire feeling about my relationship with my employer. And I 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.520 definitely went through a period where I switched jobs a lot, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.960 I think, And yeah, let's talk about how it changes 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.480 the way you view your employer, because that was something 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.880 that stuck with me from Brittany's discussion, where you know, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:35.480 you think of this place that's kind of like your 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.320 family or your friends, and then that they turn around 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.760 and are so harsh to you so quickly can be 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:45.000 really jarring. Absolutely. I was fired when I was twenty 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.400 seven years old, and I had only worked at two 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.240 other places at that point in my life, and prior 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.400 to that, I had been in college. And college is 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.480 a great community and you kind of carry that with 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.400 you even after you've graduated and you start to probably 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:01.080 apply it to the places you work. And then I 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.520 was cast out of that community. I was told leave, 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.960 we don't want you here. And yet I had established 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.400 close friendships with people there, and I continued having those 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.440 close friendships afterward. But it was very hard for me 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.200 because it was like they were still it was like 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.120 I broke up with somebody, but all my friends were 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.760 still dating her, and I was hearing about things there, 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:23.520 and I had to kind of be like, oh, yeah, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.320 that's that's great. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad they're happy, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.080 and that sounds really cool. Um, Yeah, especially now we're 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.200 expected to have so much of a social life at work, 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.960 especially at a place like BuzzFeed, I imagine, and the 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.720 places that we've worked, you know, you're supposed to really 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.000 dive in and throw your whole self into your job. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.600 That to me is is something that has happened a 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.320 lot in the last say twenty years, where companies take 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.480 on all the trappings of a place that is safe, 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.800 in a place to enjoy yourself and hey, look we've 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.440 got all these perks and everything is much more casual 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.160 than it used to be. Until a company, if it 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.920 decides that it's not in its interest to have you 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:09.239 work there anymore, will act decisively and to some degree mercilessly. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.680 And that has not changed. It just becomes a little 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.720 bit more complicated when all this time they've been sort 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.280 of putting their arm around your shoulder and saying we're 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.880 on the same team, right. Yeah, that stresses me out. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.480 I have not been fired yet, given that I've managed 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.800 to continue working and move on to other jobs and 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.760 other things, I now look back on it as sort 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.080 of a character building event. But I suppose that's what 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.640 anybody who got fired would say. Anybody who now is 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.080 in your position and is like doing okay. Right, If 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:42.880 you're doing okay now, you're like, well, then I guess 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:44.560 that was part of the journey or what have you. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.480 But I definitely feel I know that I feel more 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.920 cynical about a company that I work for now than 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.720 I did before. And and maybe that would have happened 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.200 over time anyway, just a general cynicism that comes with age. 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.800 But it was a very sudden education and and I 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.720 really thought, like, this company loves me and I love it, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.639 and we're gonna be together forever. And all of a 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.800 sudden no. And it wasn't hey, we're going to give 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:12.479 you the heads up and in two weeks you kind 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.840 of gotta get on out of here. It was you're 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.119 laid off, pack up your things, get out. Yes, I 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:18.639 mean it sounds like, yeah, you've built up kind of 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.080 a shell. And maybe that's that's the best that we 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.160 can all do, is Yes, I just think it could 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:28.560 be realistic. Yes, be realistic. Recognize that these are businesses. 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.400 They have bottom lines, they have investors, they have stockholders, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.359 they have whatever it is. And unless you have a 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.879 contract or you're in a union perhaps where there are 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.240 certain agreements about that. If you are in the kind 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.840 of work that we do where it's at will, then 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.520 you are effectively alone, and that becomes starkly real to 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.560 you when you're told that you are no longer working. 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.480 There Another thing you can do, which I learned from 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.000 Sally Cratcheck, who we had on an earlier episode to 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.920 talk about money, was that you're supposed to have what's 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.920 called an F you fund? What does f you stand for? 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.159 A bad word which is just like a StAst of 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:10.280 cash to use when you need to like say f 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.760 you to a boss or your partner or you know, 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.840 it's just money, so you have and in the context 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.080 of what we're discussing today, it might also be useful 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.680 when a company basically says f you to you exactly, 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.520 but I want, since we're talking about the emotional side 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.399 of things, what is the like emotional version of the 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.520 FU fund? You need to have an emotional nest egg. 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.919 You need to have some sense of yourself outside of 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.840 your job. It's so easy to identify yourself by the 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.720 work you do. And I didn't realize that until my 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.560 job was taken away from me, because it's suddenly just 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.520 kind of shattered me, like I was, like, who am 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.600 I what's my purpose, what's what's the whole point? And 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.760 nowadays I feel like I can identify myself and feel 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.359 good about myself in lots of other ways, my job 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.600 being one of them, but not the only one. And 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.240 so if you can figure that out without getting fired, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.480 well then you know you're in the high country. I 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.880 feel like our show is often like Becca, like, once 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.480 you're like a little bit more mature, like feel like 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:17.520 when you're older, like you'll feel better. And now we're 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:22.879 going to move on to half baked takes. Half baked 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.800 takes this is the part of the show where Becca 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:30.520 and I share some not fully formed opinions, observations, and 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.040 analysis about the workplace, or for that matter, anything that 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.920 we are really thinking about this week, Becca, why don't 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.560 you lead us off? So my half baked take is 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.160 almost a fully baked take. People should not complement other 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.639 people on their physical appearance in the office. This is 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.800 a controversial opinion. I've talked about it with a lot 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.920 of people who give me like, but what about this scenario? 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:57.320 And I just think that best practice. Don't do it. 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:01.320 I've been made uncomfortable multiple times. Physical parents includes clothing. 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.000 Just to clarify I really like your dress, right, great haircut, 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.040 cool glasses, none of it, none of it. I don't 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.960 want that at work. I think you're probably right. I 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:17.080 think that I have said complimentary things to coworkers, but usually, 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.520 or in fact always, they are people with whom I 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.240 feel like I have a pretty real friendship with. You know, 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.560 we've been working together for years, and like we've hung 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.160 out its case by case for sure, and I've I've 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.000 also done it, like I found myself complimenting of female 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.800 coworkers cool pants, and then I'm like, oh, I'm such 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.560 a hypocrite, So I don't check myself anyway. That's my 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.399 my three quarter baked take no compliments. Well, mine is 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:46.560 actually also apparel related and gender related. In fact, as 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:51.200 we come to the close of summer, men, fellas, if 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.320 you work in an office, here's a little thing. I 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.080 don't ever want to see your knees. Okay, shorts have 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:02.159 no business in business save him for the weekend. Okay. 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.040 I know that this is a popular opinion. I've seen it. 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.920 I do think the exception is if it's really really 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:13.000 hot out, so what because it's over air conditioned, because 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.200