WEBVTT - All the Best | EP 12 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:04.200 We left you on a cliffhanger at the end of 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.760 the last episode, a real time development in the story 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.360 of Laura Owens. Would she take the plea deal? The 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.319 deadline came and went and I didn't hear anything. So 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:18.800 I called Clayton to see if he had any news. 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:25.320 Don dun nothing. We have no idea. We are still 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:27.400 waiting for an answer. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.880 In a shock to no one, we still don't have 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.360 an answer, at least not at the time I'm recording this. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.320 Laura could be in plea negotiations, or she could be 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.680 doubling down and refusing to take the plea. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:44.760 I mean, is it anything that we're surprised about. 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:50.240 I didn't really expect an answer because Laura's tactics are delayed, delay, delay, 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:52.640 and that's just the way that she operates. It's like, 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.360 let's drag this out as long as I can, so 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.560 we have no information, which means like from here. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.800 I will with everybody else for a docket update. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.920 Clayton's seen this pattern so many times he's exhausted by it. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.080 There's thousands of loopholes in the court system. She could 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.480 do this until her face turns blue, and she will. 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:16.279 Laura will just go oh loophole. Ooh, no loophole. Oh no, loophol. Okay, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.560 that's my fiftieth loophole. Let me slug this monster energy 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.680 drink and go for my fifty first. And that's what 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.800 she does, all right. Loophol one hundred, loophole one fifty, 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:27.200 loophole three hundred. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.080 That's where we're at right now. We're on loophole three hundred. 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.920 Just because this plea deal expired, it doesn't mean her 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.200 window to plead guilty is closed. She can plead up 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.240 until the day of the verdict, and between now and 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.759 then there's an untold amount of loopholes. The plea deal 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.600 that expired on April thirtieth was the prosecution's first offer 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.280 and likely it's most lenient one. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.440 If she does not take this, it's only going to 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.400 get worse for her. But with that being said, the 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.080 plea comes with the fact that she has to admit wrongdoing, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.400 which we know Laura does not like to do so. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.440 Again, will she take the plea? 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.800 I mean, this is in her best interest to do so, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.280 but I don't know she's capable. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.280 The state usually tries to avoid going to trial. It's expensive. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.720 Only two percent of cases go to trial in Maricopa County. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.040 I asked Clayton what he thinks is going to happen 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.239 from here. He started with a disclaimer. 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.560 I don't think I've been right about Laura once. With 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.640 every single prediction that I make, I'm always wrong. So 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.079 keep that in mind. If I had a crystal ball 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.160 and I was to tell you where we go from here, 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.040 I feel very strongly that she will not take the 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.480 plea deal, and she will go to trial, and she 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.360 will end up with worse charges and she will face 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:56.160 prison time, and that would be best case scenario for everybody, 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:57.240 including Laura. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.320 Laura, I know you're going to listen to this. You 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.639 are trapped. Wake up. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.480 This might be the final episode, but I promise we're 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:15.400 not just going to leave you hanging. I'm Stephanie Young. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:51.440 This is love trapped, trapsy. There's a word we've avoided 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.880 using throughout this entire podcast. 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.400 God damn, this lady's crazy. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.040 It's just some crazy woman, crazy crazy. 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:00.920 She's crazy, so crazy. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.119 This is the crazy all you're talking about, right. 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.120 The crazy woman, The woman who brings false allegations of 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:11.920 sexual assault, the woman who fabricates pregnancies, the woman who 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.520 spins a victim narrative at every turn, leaving a trail 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.080 of destruction behind her. She's a kind of folk villain 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.000 in our society, and what she's done can be weaponized 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:28.279 against all women. Apparently these kinds of stories are pretty popular. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.159 They can also be dangerous as women. A lot of 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.719 us remember the times we've been called crazy. I've been 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:41.200 called crazy. You double text, you call too many times, 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.240 you say I love you too quickly, You want to 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.880 have conversations about the future, you want to process something 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.839 that hurt your feelings. You've been gas lit and you react, 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.280 or worst of all, you've been abused and you tell 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.640 the truth, and then all of a sudden, you've been 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.960 assigned the label crazy. I've thought about this word a lot. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.400 We've all seen it used to discredit women. I was 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.880 cautious about taking on a story where the antagonist is 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:17.279 such a polarizing figure. I also didn't expect the facts 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.599 to speak as loudly as they do. After just a 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.360 few weeks of reporting, I had a realization similar to 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:25.760 what reality Steve described. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.960 I think it was reading the dating contract. That's when 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.120 I knew we were not dealing with a person that 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.560 was living in reality, and that was the most shocking 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:35.039 thing to me. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.599 I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Fabricated 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:45.040 claims like the kind alleged here are incredibly rare. Since 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.599 the very start of this production, my team and I 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.560 have been talking about the larger impacts of sharing this 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.760 kind of narrative, if just retelling it perpetuates this negative 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:59.320 stereotype about women, and how we can minimize that. In 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.000 the end, this is what I've come to. I've reported 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.039 on the facts. I've utilized public records, many of them 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.560 submitted by Laura Owens herself. I've also relied on multiple 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:16.200 accounts of people who experienced this firsthand. I believe their 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:22.400 stories deserve to be told. I've heard this described as 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.760 a cautionary tale. I want to challenge that a bit. 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.400 I think the cautionary aspect really falls on each of us, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:36.120 how we interpret it and retell it, and why it's 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.640 our responsibility to see it as what it is, one 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.520 single story. When I first talked to Clayton, I didn't 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.480 expect him to have thought about these repercussions and nuances, 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.640 but to my surprise, he had, and he brought. 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:52.080 It up to me. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.680 That's the delicate balance with this whole story, which is 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.919 why I appreciate you being a woman, and why I 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.520 do appreciate the vast majority of the supporters of me 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:09.159 during this whole fiasco being women, because if it was 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.600 just a movement of men, then it would be seen 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.440 as misogynistic, like, oh, if you get attached to this story, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.200 is an ichiness to it. It's a men's right activist 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.560 lead movement. It's never been that never will be anyone 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.080 that says, well, this is why we shouldn't believe women. 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.160 I never liked those comments. I never agree with them. 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.200 That's a dysfunctional mindset. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.520 Clayton's never seen this as some broader commentary on women. 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.400 To him, it's always been about one person, Laura Owens. 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:47.920 Laura is one woman that has left a stain greater 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.040 than just impacting me in the previous victims. This is 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.760 going to potentially hurt women from being believed in the future. 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.920 I don't want to be associated with a movement where 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.080 we believe women less. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:02.240 I don't want that. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:06.960 What I want is for people to believe victims, and 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:08.000 that's it. 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.520 I wanted to end this series by finally hearing from 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:19.280 Laura Owens herself, and believe me, we've been trying on 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.560 at least five separate occasions. We've sent her or her 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.920 attorney a request for an interview, starting as far back 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.200 as May twenty five, nine months before the podcast came out. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.920 I heard from Laura as recently as last week. We'll 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.000 talk about her emails later in this episode. And even 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.040 though we've asked, she still hasn't agreed to sit for 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:46.920 an interview on the record. I've been asked why we're 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.960 not hearing more from Laura's side, and it's this simple. 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.880 No one's been willing to talk for a long time. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.120 The closest thing we had was this one website, Justicefolaura 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.520 dot com. On the home page, there's a photo of 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.959 Laura smiling. We've had a voice actor read from the 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:05.640 about section. 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.840 Just as for Laura exists because of a prosecution that 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.360 simply does not resemble anything we normally see in American courts. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.360 A large coordinated faction of Clayton's fans, which came to 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.600 call itself Justice for Clayton JFC, had seized on the 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:25.240 story and fixated on a single claim that Laura had 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.360 faked the pregnancy and fabricated everything around it. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.520 Actually, on June tenth, twenty twenty four, a judge ruled 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.559 that Laura was never pregnant with Clayton's twins. We don't 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.720 know who owns this website, but I have a few guesses. 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.640 I asked Reality Steve, who's been covering this for almost 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.720 three years, if he's ever talked with a friend of Laura's. 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.040 He said no, Neither him nor Dave Neil have. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.200 For two people like Dave and myself who were coming 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.120 at her hard as we were, to never get one 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.959 thing sent to us, even if someone said, I don't 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.040 want to reveal my identity, but just no. I went 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.520 to sixth grade with Laura. She was a great girl. 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.000 I went to high school with Laura. I was a 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.760 high school boyfriend of Laura's. I knew Laura two years ago. 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.000 Somebody you would think would come to Dave and I 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.160 at some point and say something, and I never got 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:20.680 one email. 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.440 In episode two, I said the same thing. No one 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.080 who knew Laura would go on the record for an interview. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.800 But that changed this week. One of Laura's childhood friends 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.960 reached out to our show. She had something to say. 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:38.760 She would only speak to us if we kept her 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:43.360 anonymous and disguised her voice. We asked for verification of 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.920 her friendship with Laura, and she sent receipts. We didn't 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.840 know what to expect, if she would defend Laura or not, 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.559 but we agreed to the interview. We're going to call 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.840 her Emily, which isn't her real name. What you're going 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.320 to hear is a voice actor replicating Emily's tape word 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.559 for word. We wanted to preserve her intention and emotionality. 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.240 We started by asking her why she reached out to us. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.319 It just felt like some background was probably needed. There's 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.240 just no context to her anymore. She's just this rich 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.520 horse girl and she puts on this big i'd say, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.800 almost a facade. That's just not who she was, at 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.040 least when she was a child into early adulthood. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.400 We asked Emily to describe what Laura was like. 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.320 Back then, going back into like high school and middle school. 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.880 Laura wanted to be famous. Laura's parents were famous. She 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.040 always wanted to be in the limelight. She was a 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.400 country singer at one point in time, trying to get famous. Laura, 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.800 I would say, is best described as a keyboard cowboy. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.160 She was very popular behind a screen, but in person 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.640 not that popular and just boy crazy. 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.320 We wanted to know if she'd ever met Laura's mom, Jan. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:02.400 She had. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.040 She and her mom were besties. Jan would drive her 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.920 around every day. Laura didn't get her driver's license until 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.360 she was like eighteen. She and her mom just spent 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.319 all day every day together and had this very strange relationship. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.000 Laura could do no wrong. Laura did what she wanted 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.680 with full unbridled support of her parents. You want a 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.880 new horse, you get it. You want a new saddle, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.319 you get it. You want this, just order it. I 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.200 don't think she learned how to be rejected. I don't 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.880 know if she ever really learned how to be told no. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.680 Before Laura was publicly identified, Emily saw the headline about 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.960 a former bachelor being in a paternity dispute with an 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.079 anonymous woman. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.360 And I was like, what a dick, Like, how rude 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.400 of this guy to knock up some chick and then 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.360 deny praternity and all this. Not that long later, I 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.200 saw Laura post some article on Facebook and I was like, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:56.080 holy shit. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.080 I read about this immediately. Emily out to her childhood 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.600 friend to check on her. 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.000 I DMed her to be like Laura, what the heck, girlfriend, 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.520 Like this is insane? Are you okay? Like I don't know, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.520 thinking that she would be like, yeah, this is nuts. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.439 I'm pregnant, this is hard, and she left me on Red. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.560 That's when the puzzle pieces started coming together for Emily. 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.040 Once the initial shock wore off, of like, holy crap, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.440 I know that person, Like I spent the night at 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.720 their home, I spent years with this person. It didn't 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:35.280 surprise me, Like she's so desperately wanted to be famous. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.320 So as soon as I started following the story and 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.200 saw that it wasn't just some random person, but Clayton 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.520 had been on The Bachelor and that he was famous 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.240 per se, I was like, of course she did that, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.640 Like she wanted to be the Bachelor's girlfriend. She wanted 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:56.320 that storyline, and she took it too far, like wildly 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:01.320 too far. But it didn't shock me at all, Like 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:05.440 she wanted that, and I think she's always wanted that. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.120 When I started reporting almost a year ago, one of 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.880 my first steps was to visit Clayton Eckert in person. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.600 We sat down at his house in Arizona and talked 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.800 for a long time. He told me the whole story 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.040 and gave me the l file. Back then, I had 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.920 no idea what I was in for. Now that I've 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.120 become fully immersed, and so have all of you, I 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.240 returned for another conversation with Clayton. I want to revisit 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.880 the pivotal moments in his story and ask some outstanding 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.840 questions of my own. So, Clayton, you and I have 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.240 talked a lot over the last year. We've done hours 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.320 of interviews, and a lot of new information has come 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:57.120 out since we first started this process, new indictments, a 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.640 lot of new information along the way with the investigation report. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:02.560 So I kind of want to go back to the 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.160 very beginning of this story, when Laura first reached out 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.840 to you, knowing what we know now, what do you 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:09.520 see differently? 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.200 I cannot stress enough to you that Laura was one 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.360 of the most normal girls that I've ever met and 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:23.560 been and interacted with up until she snapped and the 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.520 darkness washed over her. 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.480 It did seem pretty normal until it wasn't until you 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:31.400 rejected her. 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:37.760 Yes, exactly, but until that point there was nothing. She 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.360 was intelligent. She was talking about homes, and she was 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.360 excited about buying some properties. I had no idea what 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.400 I was getting into because she was so good at 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:45.960 hiding it. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:52.520 Did Laura change your approach to dating and how you're 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.240 looking for a relationship in the future. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:16:00.640 Yes, And I realized that I was allowing people into 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.880 my circle that should never have access to my energy. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.040 We saw that photo that Laura got me on. Everyone's like, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:07.880 that's all it took. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.320 Clayton's talking about the photo Laura sent him early on, 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.600 the one where she's wearing writing leggings with her back 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.720 turned to the camera. After she sent that, Clayton invited 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:19.240 her over. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.160 I kind of reflected that I was like, Clayton, that's 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.360 all it took. I really had a serious conversation with myself, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.960 and I'm like, that's all that it takes for a 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:28.080 woman to get access to you. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:30.680 So with that, I still want to date. I still 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.120 want to settle down. I want to have a family. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.360 I want to have a partner that I can grow 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.520 with and take on the world with. But it's like, hey, 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.920 I'm holding myself to a higher standard. Therefore I'm also 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:41.880 holding the people that I. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.640 Interact with to a higher standard. That's what's changed. 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.520 One of the things that I keep thinking about with 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.160 this case, and your brother Nate actually brought it up 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.640 to me, is how different this story might have been 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.280 if you and Laura actually had sex that night of 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.320 May twentieth, twenty twenty three. Do you think we'd be 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.520 where we are today if you had had sex? 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.199 Oh my gosh, Wow, that's a hard question, Stephanie. Like 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.240 my mind's racing because I think she could have convinced 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:20.400 me probably, Like it's almost like, could things be different? Yes, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.760 But ultimately, I'll tell you this much, Laura will always 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.880 find a way. So no matter the circumstances, no matter 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.879 how they played out, Laura still would. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:33.639 Have found a way to get right here where she 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:34.119 is today. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:40.040 According to Clayton, they only had oral sex. Even still, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.840 he believed there was a small chance she could have 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.800 impregnated herself in the bathroom. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.480 So I believe that she was potentially pregnant until I 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.399 found out about Greg. I believe that she successfully performed 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:54.080 that spit maneuver. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.280 That's interesting, yeah, because now you don't believe she was pregnant. 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.000 Ever, No, I know that she wasn't pregnant now because again, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.439 if she ever was, she would have utilized that like 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.080 she would have then went and got an ultrasound, because 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.560 you could have gotten an ultrasound and proven you were 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.679 pregnant and then just avoided the paternity test so that 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.080 you didn't have to prove it was mine. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.160 She could have gotten pregnant by somebody else, right, and. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.800 Then claimed it was a possibility, which was a possibility 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.840 and was something that I was concerned about. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.480 There is this big bombshell in the investigation report, which 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.000 is that she slept with another man two weeks before 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.919 she hooked up with you, and then one week after. 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.679 But she told you that she hadn't hooked up with 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.960 anyone else in a year and over a year. How 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:47.159 does that make you feel. 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.159 To see that in the investigative reports? It to me 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:51.640 it was a bit. 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.280 It's like scary in a way because you realize or 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.600 you start to draw conclusions or make assumptions. You say, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.919 she was slept with a guy before and after she 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.240 accused me of impregnating her, So like, what was herm there? 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.280 And again my brain leads to she was trying to 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.680 get pregnant by him so that she could then carry 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:18.440 out this tactic of being pregnant by the bachelor. And 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:19.840 she could have made it fart. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.320 When I first met with Clayton, he described what he'd 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.600 been through as attempted trapping. It's another one of those 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.680 tropes in society, basically a woman trying to get pregnant 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.720 for money, fame, or even just for a relationship, all 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.600 while the man she's having sex with is unaware of 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.560 her goal to get pregnant. Clayton told me that during 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.680 his time as a pro athlete and in the world 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.239 of reality TV, this is a real phenomenon men are 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.879 wary of. I knew what he was talking about because 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.240 I'd worked in professional sports and saw it firsthand. It's rare, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:02.080 but sometimes it actually happens. Do you still believe in 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.000 trapping or do you consider what Laura did to you 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:05.760 something else. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.760 Yeah, that's what she was looking to carry out, and 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.560 she failed. But she did try to pull me into 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:14.439 a relationship that I did not want to be in, 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.159 and that is the definition of trapping, at least in 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:17.600 my eyes. 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.960 Now that we have the full picture and we know 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:22.879 what the state alleges and what we read in the 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:26.080 investigation report, they said, I'm going to read it to you. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.760 Laura Owens, an adult female podcast host created a scheme 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.440 to elevate her notoriety and increase her commercial value by 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.399 attempting to blackmail Clayton Eckert, a television celebrity, into a 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:43.760 romantic relationship. So basically, the state believes that she targeted you. 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.320 The investigation report doesn't go into the details of why 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.119 they came to such a strong conclusion, but we can 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.399 imagine that the investigators have her search history, her text messages, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.240 any other details that they probably haven't released yet. Why 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.159 do you think the state believed. 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.760 That they're right they've uncovered her motives because they have 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.080 access to more than I've ever even seen. They have 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.479 not just my exchanges with her over text and email, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.800 they have everything her text message is probably to her mom. 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.880 They have access to all that. They confiscated all of 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.840 that information. So I would be led to believe that 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.920 they're pretty spot on with being able to uncover her motives. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.920 I think absolutely she was looking to leverage this. 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:29.960 You were kind of struggling with your mental health because 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.240 you'd just come off this horrible season of The Bachelor, 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:34.840 You'd been dragged through the mud on the internet. You 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.440 broke up with Susie, you moved to Arizona. You were 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.800 trying to start fresh. So if she did target you, 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:45.399 she did pick you specifically at a low point. Have 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.520 you ever thought about it that way? And like, why 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:48.560 do you think she did that? 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:50.520 Why do I think she came after me in a 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:51.000 low point? 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.920 Yeah, because that was going to be her easiest prey. 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:01.400 She saw me as somebody that was a wound celebrity, 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:06.639 somebody that was a weak celebrity, right, somebody that was vulnerable, 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.520 somebody that was polarizing, and somebody that had a chink 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.440 in their armor that she could manipulate and she could 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:15.960 attack and win. 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.560 When Laura posted the I am the Anonymous woman thread 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.200 on Reddit, Clayton watched in horror, and so many people 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:25.720 immediately took Laura's side. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.360 For those that didn't believe and were ready to pick 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.879 up their pitchforks and go after me, because there were plenty, 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.439 there were plenty. There's a lot of revisionist history out there, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.240 people saying, well, we believe Clayt from the beginning. No, 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.040 you didn't know, you didn't. We can go back to 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.600 those early Reddit posts. You definitely did not. So let's 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.920 call it for what it is. You kind of want 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.480 me to be the villain, And why is that. 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.280 In your situation with Laura. There's a lot of people 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.760 who think that, oh, this would never happen to me. 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.200 I know better. Clayton is naive. Clayton should have known 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.200 that she was making all of this up. He should 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.119 have just stopped responding to her messages and her text messages. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:03.480 He should have gone to the police on day one, 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.080 all of these things. What do you think about that 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:08.000 kind of response. 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.600 I've seen the comments like, well, if I was saying, 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.119 I would have just ignored her. And I'm like, that 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.080