Speaker 1: We left you on a cliffhanger at the end of
Speaker 1: the last episode, a real time development in the story
Speaker 1: of Laura Owens. Would she take the plea deal? The
Speaker 1: deadline came and went and I didn't hear anything. So
Speaker 1: I called Clayton to see if he had any news.
Speaker 2: Don dun nothing. We have no idea. We are still
Speaker 2: waiting for an answer.
Speaker 1: In a shock to no one, we still don't have
Speaker 1: an answer, at least not at the time I'm recording this.
Speaker 1: Laura could be in plea negotiations, or she could be
Speaker 1: doubling down and refusing to take the plea.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it anything that we're surprised about.
Speaker 3: I didn't really expect an answer because Laura's tactics are delayed, delay, delay,
Speaker 3: and that's just the way that she operates. It's like,
Speaker 3: let's drag this out as long as I can, so
Speaker 3: we have no information, which means like from here.
Speaker 2: I will with everybody else for a docket update.
Speaker 1: Clayton's seen this pattern so many times he's exhausted by it.
Speaker 3: There's thousands of loopholes in the court system. She could
Speaker 3: do this until her face turns blue, and she will.
Speaker 3: Laura will just go oh loophole. Ooh, no loophole. Oh no, loophol. Okay,
Speaker 3: that's my fiftieth loophole. Let me slug this monster energy
Speaker 3: drink and go for my fifty first. And that's what
Speaker 3: she does, all right. Loophol one hundred, loophole one fifty,
Speaker 3: loophole three hundred.
Speaker 2: That's where we're at right now. We're on loophole three hundred.
Speaker 1: Just because this plea deal expired, it doesn't mean her
Speaker 1: window to plead guilty is closed. She can plead up
Speaker 1: until the day of the verdict, and between now and
Speaker 1: then there's an untold amount of loopholes. The plea deal
Speaker 1: that expired on April thirtieth was the prosecution's first offer
Speaker 1: and likely it's most lenient one.
Speaker 3: If she does not take this, it's only going to
Speaker 3: get worse for her. But with that being said, the
Speaker 3: plea comes with the fact that she has to admit wrongdoing,
Speaker 3: which we know Laura does not like to do so.
Speaker 2: Again, will she take the plea?
Speaker 3: I mean, this is in her best interest to do so,
Speaker 3: but I don't know she's capable.
Speaker 1: The state usually tries to avoid going to trial. It's expensive.
Speaker 1: Only two percent of cases go to trial in Maricopa County.
Speaker 1: I asked Clayton what he thinks is going to happen
Speaker 1: from here. He started with a disclaimer.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've been right about Laura once. With
Speaker 3: every single prediction that I make, I'm always wrong. So
Speaker 3: keep that in mind. If I had a crystal ball
Speaker 3: and I was to tell you where we go from here,
Speaker 3: I feel very strongly that she will not take the
Speaker 3: plea deal, and she will go to trial, and she
Speaker 3: will end up with worse charges and she will face
Speaker 3: prison time, and that would be best case scenario for everybody,
Speaker 3: including Laura.
Speaker 2: Laura, I know you're going to listen to this. You
Speaker 2: are trapped. Wake up.
Speaker 1: This might be the final episode, but I promise we're
Speaker 1: not just going to leave you hanging. I'm Stephanie Young.
Speaker 1: This is love trapped, trapsy. There's a word we've avoided
Speaker 1: using throughout this entire podcast.
Speaker 4: God damn, this lady's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's just some crazy woman, crazy crazy.
Speaker 5: She's crazy, so crazy.
Speaker 2: This is the crazy all you're talking about, right.
Speaker 1: The crazy woman, The woman who brings false allegations of
Speaker 1: sexual assault, the woman who fabricates pregnancies, the woman who
Speaker 1: spins a victim narrative at every turn, leaving a trail
Speaker 1: of destruction behind her. She's a kind of folk villain
Speaker 1: in our society, and what she's done can be weaponized
Speaker 1: against all women. Apparently these kinds of stories are pretty popular.
Speaker 1: They can also be dangerous as women. A lot of
Speaker 1: us remember the times we've been called crazy. I've been
Speaker 1: called crazy. You double text, you call too many times,
Speaker 1: you say I love you too quickly, You want to
Speaker 1: have conversations about the future, you want to process something
Speaker 1: that hurt your feelings. You've been gas lit and you react,
Speaker 1: or worst of all, you've been abused and you tell
Speaker 1: the truth, and then all of a sudden, you've been
Speaker 1: assigned the label crazy. I've thought about this word a lot.
Speaker 1: We've all seen it used to discredit women. I was
Speaker 1: cautious about taking on a story where the antagonist is
Speaker 1: such a polarizing figure. I also didn't expect the facts
Speaker 1: to speak as loudly as they do. After just a
Speaker 1: few weeks of reporting, I had a realization similar to
Speaker 1: what reality Steve described.
Speaker 6: I think it was reading the dating contract. That's when
Speaker 6: I knew we were not dealing with a person that
Speaker 6: was living in reality, and that was the most shocking
Speaker 6: thing to me.
Speaker 1: I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Fabricated
Speaker 1: claims like the kind alleged here are incredibly rare. Since
Speaker 1: the very start of this production, my team and I
Speaker 1: have been talking about the larger impacts of sharing this
Speaker 1: kind of narrative, if just retelling it perpetuates this negative
Speaker 1: stereotype about women, and how we can minimize that. In
Speaker 1: the end, this is what I've come to. I've reported
Speaker 1: on the facts. I've utilized public records, many of them
Speaker 1: submitted by Laura Owens herself. I've also relied on multiple
Speaker 1: accounts of people who experienced this firsthand. I believe their
Speaker 1: stories deserve to be told. I've heard this described as
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale. I want to challenge that a bit.
Speaker 1: I think the cautionary aspect really falls on each of us,
Speaker 1: how we interpret it and retell it, and why it's
Speaker 1: our responsibility to see it as what it is, one
Speaker 1: single story. When I first talked to Clayton, I didn't
Speaker 1: expect him to have thought about these repercussions and nuances,
Speaker 1: but to my surprise, he had, and he brought.
Speaker 7: It up to me.
Speaker 3: That's the delicate balance with this whole story, which is
Speaker 3: why I appreciate you being a woman, and why I
Speaker 3: do appreciate the vast majority of the supporters of me
Speaker 3: during this whole fiasco being women, because if it was
Speaker 3: just a movement of men, then it would be seen
Speaker 3: as misogynistic, like, oh, if you get attached to this story,
Speaker 3: is an ichiness to it. It's a men's right activist
Speaker 3: lead movement. It's never been that never will be anyone
Speaker 3: that says, well, this is why we shouldn't believe women.
Speaker 3: I never liked those comments. I never agree with them.
Speaker 3: That's a dysfunctional mindset.
Speaker 1: Clayton's never seen this as some broader commentary on women.
Speaker 1: To him, it's always been about one person, Laura Owens.
Speaker 3: Laura is one woman that has left a stain greater
Speaker 3: than just impacting me in the previous victims. This is
Speaker 3: going to potentially hurt women from being believed in the future.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be associated with a movement where
Speaker 3: we believe women less.
Speaker 2: I don't want that.
Speaker 3: What I want is for people to believe victims, and
Speaker 3: that's it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to end this series by finally hearing from
Speaker 1: Laura Owens herself, and believe me, we've been trying on
Speaker 1: at least five separate occasions. We've sent her or her
Speaker 1: attorney a request for an interview, starting as far back
Speaker 1: as May twenty five, nine months before the podcast came out.
Speaker 1: I heard from Laura as recently as last week. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about her emails later in this episode. And even
Speaker 1: though we've asked, she still hasn't agreed to sit for
Speaker 1: an interview on the record. I've been asked why we're
Speaker 1: not hearing more from Laura's side, and it's this simple.
Speaker 1: No one's been willing to talk for a long time.
Speaker 1: The closest thing we had was this one website, Justicefolaura
Speaker 1: dot com. On the home page, there's a photo of
Speaker 1: Laura smiling. We've had a voice actor read from the
Speaker 1: about section.
Speaker 8: Just as for Laura exists because of a prosecution that
Speaker 8: simply does not resemble anything we normally see in American courts.
Speaker 8: A large coordinated faction of Clayton's fans, which came to
Speaker 8: call itself Justice for Clayton JFC, had seized on the
Speaker 8: story and fixated on a single claim that Laura had
Speaker 8: faked the pregnancy and fabricated everything around it.
Speaker 1: Actually, on June tenth, twenty twenty four, a judge ruled
Speaker 1: that Laura was never pregnant with Clayton's twins. We don't
Speaker 1: know who owns this website, but I have a few guesses.
Speaker 1: I asked Reality Steve, who's been covering this for almost
Speaker 1: three years, if he's ever talked with a friend of Laura's.
Speaker 1: He said no, Neither him nor Dave Neil have.
Speaker 6: For two people like Dave and myself who were coming
Speaker 6: at her hard as we were, to never get one
Speaker 6: thing sent to us, even if someone said, I don't
Speaker 6: want to reveal my identity, but just no. I went
Speaker 6: to sixth grade with Laura. She was a great girl.
Speaker 6: I went to high school with Laura. I was a
Speaker 6: high school boyfriend of Laura's. I knew Laura two years ago.
Speaker 6: Somebody you would think would come to Dave and I
Speaker 6: at some point and say something, and I never got
Speaker 6: one email.
Speaker 1: In episode two, I said the same thing. No one
Speaker 1: who knew Laura would go on the record for an interview.
Speaker 1: But that changed this week. One of Laura's childhood friends
Speaker 1: reached out to our show. She had something to say.
Speaker 1: She would only speak to us if we kept her
Speaker 1: anonymous and disguised her voice. We asked for verification of
Speaker 1: her friendship with Laura, and she sent receipts. We didn't
Speaker 1: know what to expect, if she would defend Laura or not,
Speaker 1: but we agreed to the interview. We're going to call
Speaker 1: her Emily, which isn't her real name. What you're going
Speaker 1: to hear is a voice actor replicating Emily's tape word
Speaker 1: for word. We wanted to preserve her intention and emotionality.
Speaker 1: We started by asking her why she reached out to us.
Speaker 5: It just felt like some background was probably needed. There's
Speaker 5: just no context to her anymore. She's just this rich
Speaker 5: horse girl and she puts on this big i'd say,
Speaker 5: almost a facade. That's just not who she was, at
Speaker 5: least when she was a child into early adulthood.
Speaker 1: We asked Emily to describe what Laura was like.
Speaker 5: Back then, going back into like high school and middle school.
Speaker 5: Laura wanted to be famous. Laura's parents were famous. She
Speaker 5: always wanted to be in the limelight. She was a
Speaker 5: country singer at one point in time, trying to get famous. Laura,
Speaker 5: I would say, is best described as a keyboard cowboy.
Speaker 5: She was very popular behind a screen, but in person
Speaker 5: not that popular and just boy crazy.
Speaker 1: We wanted to know if she'd ever met Laura's mom, Jan.
Speaker 7: She had.
Speaker 5: She and her mom were besties. Jan would drive her
Speaker 5: around every day. Laura didn't get her driver's license until
Speaker 5: she was like eighteen. She and her mom just spent
Speaker 5: all day every day together and had this very strange relationship.
Speaker 5: Laura could do no wrong. Laura did what she wanted
Speaker 5: with full unbridled support of her parents. You want a
Speaker 5: new horse, you get it. You want a new saddle,
Speaker 5: you get it. You want this, just order it. I
Speaker 5: don't think she learned how to be rejected. I don't
Speaker 5: know if she ever really learned how to be told no.
Speaker 1: Before Laura was publicly identified, Emily saw the headline about
Speaker 1: a former bachelor being in a paternity dispute with an
Speaker 1: anonymous woman.
Speaker 5: And I was like, what a dick, Like, how rude
Speaker 5: of this guy to knock up some chick and then
Speaker 5: deny praternity and all this. Not that long later, I
Speaker 5: saw Laura post some article on Facebook and I was like,
Speaker 5: holy shit.
Speaker 1: I read about this immediately. Emily out to her childhood
Speaker 1: friend to check on her.
Speaker 5: I DMed her to be like Laura, what the heck, girlfriend,
Speaker 5: Like this is insane? Are you okay? Like I don't know,
Speaker 5: thinking that she would be like, yeah, this is nuts.
Speaker 5: I'm pregnant, this is hard, and she left me on Red.
Speaker 1: That's when the puzzle pieces started coming together for Emily.
Speaker 5: Once the initial shock wore off, of like, holy crap,
Speaker 5: I know that person, Like I spent the night at
Speaker 5: their home, I spent years with this person. It didn't
Speaker 5: surprise me, Like she's so desperately wanted to be famous.
Speaker 5: So as soon as I started following the story and
Speaker 5: saw that it wasn't just some random person, but Clayton
Speaker 5: had been on The Bachelor and that he was famous
Speaker 5: per se, I was like, of course she did that,
Speaker 5: Like she wanted to be the Bachelor's girlfriend. She wanted
Speaker 5: that storyline, and she took it too far, like wildly
Speaker 5: too far. But it didn't shock me at all, Like
Speaker 5: she wanted that, and I think she's always wanted that.
Speaker 1: When I started reporting almost a year ago, one of
Speaker 1: my first steps was to visit Clayton Eckert in person.
Speaker 1: We sat down at his house in Arizona and talked
Speaker 1: for a long time. He told me the whole story
Speaker 1: and gave me the l file. Back then, I had
Speaker 1: no idea what I was in for. Now that I've
Speaker 1: become fully immersed, and so have all of you, I
Speaker 1: returned for another conversation with Clayton. I want to revisit
Speaker 1: the pivotal moments in his story and ask some outstanding
Speaker 1: questions of my own. So, Clayton, you and I have
Speaker 1: talked a lot over the last year. We've done hours
Speaker 1: of interviews, and a lot of new information has come
Speaker 1: out since we first started this process, new indictments, a
Speaker 1: lot of new information along the way with the investigation report.
Speaker 1: So I kind of want to go back to the
Speaker 1: very beginning of this story, when Laura first reached out
Speaker 1: to you, knowing what we know now, what do you
Speaker 1: see differently?
Speaker 3: I cannot stress enough to you that Laura was one
Speaker 3: of the most normal girls that I've ever met and
Speaker 3: been and interacted with up until she snapped and the
Speaker 3: darkness washed over her.
Speaker 1: It did seem pretty normal until it wasn't until you
Speaker 1: rejected her.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, but until that point there was nothing. She
Speaker 3: was intelligent. She was talking about homes, and she was
Speaker 3: excited about buying some properties. I had no idea what
Speaker 3: I was getting into because she was so good at
Speaker 3: hiding it.
Speaker 1: Did Laura change your approach to dating and how you're
Speaker 1: looking for a relationship in the future.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I realized that I was allowing people into
Speaker 3: my circle that should never have access to my energy.
Speaker 3: We saw that photo that Laura got me on. Everyone's like,
Speaker 3: that's all it took.
Speaker 1: Clayton's talking about the photo Laura sent him early on,
Speaker 1: the one where she's wearing writing leggings with her back
Speaker 1: turned to the camera. After she sent that, Clayton invited
Speaker 1: her over.
Speaker 3: I kind of reflected that I was like, Clayton, that's
Speaker 3: all it took. I really had a serious conversation with myself,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, that's all that it takes for a
Speaker 3: woman to get access to you.
Speaker 2: So with that, I still want to date. I still
Speaker 2: want to settle down. I want to have a family.
Speaker 3: I want to have a partner that I can grow
Speaker 3: with and take on the world with. But it's like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm holding myself to a higher standard. Therefore I'm also
Speaker 3: holding the people that I.
Speaker 2: Interact with to a higher standard. That's what's changed.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I keep thinking about with
Speaker 1: this case, and your brother Nate actually brought it up
Speaker 1: to me, is how different this story might have been
Speaker 1: if you and Laura actually had sex that night of
Speaker 1: May twentieth, twenty twenty three. Do you think we'd be
Speaker 1: where we are today if you had had sex?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Wow, that's a hard question, Stephanie. Like
Speaker 3: my mind's racing because I think she could have convinced
Speaker 3: me probably, Like it's almost like, could things be different? Yes,
Speaker 3: But ultimately, I'll tell you this much, Laura will always
Speaker 3: find a way. So no matter the circumstances, no matter
Speaker 3: how they played out, Laura still would.
Speaker 2: Have found a way to get right here where she
Speaker 2: is today.
Speaker 1: According to Clayton, they only had oral sex. Even still,
Speaker 1: he believed there was a small chance she could have
Speaker 1: impregnated herself in the bathroom.
Speaker 3: So I believe that she was potentially pregnant until I
Speaker 3: found out about Greg. I believe that she successfully performed
Speaker 3: that spit maneuver.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, yeah, because now you don't believe she was pregnant.
Speaker 3: Ever, No, I know that she wasn't pregnant now because again,
Speaker 3: if she ever was, she would have utilized that like
Speaker 3: she would have then went and got an ultrasound, because
Speaker 3: you could have gotten an ultrasound and proven you were
Speaker 3: pregnant and then just avoided the paternity test so that
Speaker 3: you didn't have to prove it was mine.
Speaker 2: She could have gotten pregnant by somebody else, right, and.
Speaker 3: Then claimed it was a possibility, which was a possibility
Speaker 3: and was something that I was concerned about.
Speaker 1: There is this big bombshell in the investigation report, which
Speaker 1: is that she slept with another man two weeks before
Speaker 1: she hooked up with you, and then one week after.
Speaker 1: But she told you that she hadn't hooked up with
Speaker 1: anyone else in a year and over a year. How
Speaker 1: does that make you feel.
Speaker 2: To see that in the investigative reports? It to me
Speaker 2: it was a bit.
Speaker 3: It's like scary in a way because you realize or
Speaker 3: you start to draw conclusions or make assumptions. You say,
Speaker 3: she was slept with a guy before and after she
Speaker 3: accused me of impregnating her, So like, what was herm there?
Speaker 3: And again my brain leads to she was trying to
Speaker 3: get pregnant by him so that she could then carry
Speaker 3: out this tactic of being pregnant by the bachelor. And
Speaker 3: she could have made it fart.
Speaker 1: When I first met with Clayton, he described what he'd
Speaker 1: been through as attempted trapping. It's another one of those
Speaker 1: tropes in society, basically a woman trying to get pregnant
Speaker 1: for money, fame, or even just for a relationship, all
Speaker 1: while the man she's having sex with is unaware of
Speaker 1: her goal to get pregnant. Clayton told me that during
Speaker 1: his time as a pro athlete and in the world
Speaker 1: of reality TV, this is a real phenomenon men are
Speaker 1: wary of. I knew what he was talking about because
Speaker 1: I'd worked in professional sports and saw it firsthand. It's rare,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it actually happens. Do you still believe in
Speaker 1: trapping or do you consider what Laura did to you
Speaker 1: something else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what she was looking to carry out, and
Speaker 3: she failed. But she did try to pull me into
Speaker 3: a relationship that I did not want to be in,
Speaker 3: and that is the definition of trapping, at least in
Speaker 3: my eyes.
Speaker 1: Now that we have the full picture and we know
Speaker 1: what the state alleges and what we read in the
Speaker 1: investigation report, they said, I'm going to read it to you.
Speaker 1: Laura Owens, an adult female podcast host created a scheme
Speaker 1: to elevate her notoriety and increase her commercial value by
Speaker 1: attempting to blackmail Clayton Eckert, a television celebrity, into a
Speaker 1: romantic relationship. So basically, the state believes that she targeted you.
Speaker 1: The investigation report doesn't go into the details of why
Speaker 1: they came to such a strong conclusion, but we can
Speaker 1: imagine that the investigators have her search history, her text messages,
Speaker 1: any other details that they probably haven't released yet. Why
Speaker 1: do you think the state believed.
Speaker 3: That they're right they've uncovered her motives because they have
Speaker 3: access to more than I've ever even seen. They have
Speaker 3: not just my exchanges with her over text and email,
Speaker 3: they have everything her text message is probably to her mom.
Speaker 3: They have access to all that. They confiscated all of
Speaker 3: that information. So I would be led to believe that
Speaker 3: they're pretty spot on with being able to uncover her motives.
Speaker 3: I think absolutely she was looking to leverage this.
Speaker 1: You were kind of struggling with your mental health because
Speaker 1: you'd just come off this horrible season of The Bachelor,
Speaker 1: You'd been dragged through the mud on the internet. You
Speaker 1: broke up with Susie, you moved to Arizona. You were
Speaker 1: trying to start fresh. So if she did target you,
Speaker 1: she did pick you specifically at a low point. Have
Speaker 1: you ever thought about it that way? And like, why
Speaker 1: do you think she did that?
Speaker 2: Why do I think she came after me in a
Speaker 2: low point?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that was going to be her easiest prey.
Speaker 3: She saw me as somebody that was a wound celebrity,
Speaker 3: somebody that was a weak celebrity, right, somebody that was vulnerable,
Speaker 3: somebody that was polarizing, and somebody that had a chink
Speaker 3: in their armor that she could manipulate and she could
Speaker 3: attack and win.
Speaker 1: When Laura posted the I am the Anonymous woman thread
Speaker 1: on Reddit, Clayton watched in horror, and so many people
Speaker 1: immediately took Laura's side.
Speaker 3: For those that didn't believe and were ready to pick
Speaker 3: up their pitchforks and go after me, because there were plenty,
Speaker 3: there were plenty. There's a lot of revisionist history out there,
Speaker 3: people saying, well, we believe Clayt from the beginning. No,
Speaker 3: you didn't know, you didn't. We can go back to
Speaker 3: those early Reddit posts. You definitely did not. So let's
Speaker 3: call it for what it is. You kind of want
Speaker 3: me to be the villain, And why is that.
Speaker 1: In your situation with Laura. There's a lot of people
Speaker 1: who think that, oh, this would never happen to me.
Speaker 1: I know better. Clayton is naive. Clayton should have known
Speaker 1: that she was making all of this up. He should
Speaker 1: have just stopped responding to her messages and her text messages.
Speaker 1: He should have gone to the police on day one,
Speaker 1: all of these things. What do you think about that
Speaker 1: kind of response.
Speaker 3: I've seen the comments like, well, if I was saying,
Speaker 3: I would have just ignored her. And I'm like, that
Speaker 3: is such an ignorant comment, because I tried. Did you
Speaker 3: not hear me talk about thirteen phone numbers? Did you
Speaker 3: not hear me talk about blocking the email? Did you
Speaker 3: not hear me.
Speaker 2: Talk about the restraining orders?
Speaker 3: Like? Did you not hear any of this? All your
Speaker 3: hearing is just like, well, I would have done it better.
Speaker 3: It's triggering because I didn't.
Speaker 1: When I look at this story as a whole, I
Speaker 1: see two big mistakes Laura made. The first was taking
Speaker 1: this story public. That's how Clayton found out about Greg
Speaker 1: Gillespie and Laura's pattern of behavior without Laura sending the
Speaker 1: story to the tabloids. The internet might have never found it.
Speaker 1: When Clayton first saw the headline in the Sun, he
Speaker 1: couldn't have known where we'd end up today. I asked
Speaker 1: him to revisit that moment when the news broke.
Speaker 3: Ah, Man, I remember, because I was sitting in a
Speaker 3: locker room at a pickleball venue by myself, and I'm
Speaker 3: staring at the screen. My vision got blurry. I just
Speaker 3: remember like disassociating in that moment and thinking like, I
Speaker 3: don't I just don't even feel like what I'm experiencing
Speaker 3: is real. It just feels like there's a script running
Speaker 3: or a movie playing, and I'm in the Truman Show
Speaker 3: and I'm being watched for everyone's entertainment. This is past
Speaker 3: the point of me making decisions and living a normal life,
Speaker 3: Like I feel that I am meant to be this
Speaker 3: dramatic character in this movie that I didn't sign up
Speaker 3: for but somehow became the lead role in.
Speaker 1: The second mistake I think Laura made was choosing Clayton.
Speaker 1: She underestimated him.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look at the outcome.
Speaker 3: I am seeing Laura facing fourteen felony charges and everybody
Speaker 3: knows about her previous victims. Everybody knows about her past.
Speaker 3: She believed that there was a version of me that existed.
Speaker 2: That she was wrong about.
Speaker 3: She thought that knowing the version of Clayton that I
Speaker 3: believe exists, this will crush him. And what she perceived
Speaker 3: me as was completely on and she found out the
Speaker 3: hard way.
Speaker 1: This story has a way of pulling people in. It
Speaker 1: happened to me, and I'm far from the only one.
Speaker 1: In fact, I was late to the crowd. Dave Neil
Speaker 1: has been following it since the day the Son article
Speaker 1: came out.
Speaker 4: The first time that I knew like how big this
Speaker 4: story was show in Huntington Beach and everyone afterwards wanted
Speaker 4: to come and talk about the case.
Speaker 9: People just they bond over it in a weird way.
Speaker 1: It started with Bachelor Nation fans. That's how Dave and
Speaker 1: Reality Steve found Clayton's story to begin with, but quickly
Speaker 1: they realized this was something much larger. Here's Reality Steve.
Speaker 6: I was like, I think this is the biggest story
Speaker 6: Bache Nation has ever had. There was just something about it,
Speaker 6: And this is before we knew anything, Before we knew
Speaker 6: about a Greg Gillespie or Mike Marriccini, and before we
Speaker 6: knew about Laura's past. I was like, this is the
Speaker 6: biggest thing ever I. I just couldn't think of anything else
Speaker 6: that's ever happened to a contestant outside of this show
Speaker 6: that was more quote unquote scandalous.
Speaker 1: As the story grew, it became kind of a viral sensation.
Speaker 1: Dozens more content creators started commenting on it. Thousands of
Speaker 1: armchair detectives logged onto Reddit and YouTube. Even before the
Speaker 1: criminal charges or the investigation report, the online community put
Speaker 1: critical pieces of the puzzle together. Looking back on all
Speaker 1: of their connections and discoveries, I genuinely don't know if
Speaker 1: we'd be here today without them.
Speaker 4: She had a video she sent us of her father
Speaker 4: in the hospital rubbing her pregnant belly. You can clearly
Speaker 4: see this isn't Laura Owens. The audience, they're doing mold checks,
Speaker 4: they're matching fingernail follicles. It wasn't Laura. She's stealing from
Speaker 4: other people and claiming as her own.
Speaker 6: Dave and I said to each other, there is zero
Speaker 6: chance that she is producing two babies. We guarantee she's
Speaker 6: gonna say I had a miscarriage.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: We have a smoking hCG injection here that we've always
Speaker 1: thought happened.
Speaker 4: She could have done a million different things to get
Speaker 4: that hCG and it wasn't until they actually investigated her
Speaker 4: that they realized maybe she bought it and shot it herself.
Speaker 10: It's well documented that she uses Reddit, and she had
Speaker 10: a Reddit account.
Speaker 4: Through reverse Google search, people were able to locate this
Speaker 4: ultrasound photo as the one that Laura had stolen.
Speaker 6: She had ways to do things differently, and she chose
Speaker 6: not to. And now you fuck around, you find out.
Speaker 6: And that's what it's come down.
Speaker 9: To with Laura.
Speaker 1: For two years, there's been someone behind the scenes, quietly
Speaker 1: collecting information, cataloging it, making timelines, and tracking down legal documents.
Speaker 1: You've heard about her, and a few months ago Clayton
Speaker 1: finally met her in person.
Speaker 2: I am sitting here with the infamous Schnitzel Ninja.
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja's been doing all this work anonymously out of
Speaker 1: an abundance of caution, and she hasn't profited from it.
Speaker 1: When Clayton met her, he was almost starstruck.
Speaker 3: I just have to say, when you came up to
Speaker 3: me today, it was like the big Superman reveal. I
Speaker 3: would love to have that passion that Schnitzel Ninja has
Speaker 3: where she's just pouring into this and not receiving a dime.
Speaker 3: You know, I was like, I can't, I honestly can't
Speaker 3: understand it. It's people like you that have this genuine
Speaker 3: fascination and continue to find new things and keep people
Speaker 3: interested that like has now brought life and has kept
Speaker 3: it going until this point. So my question to you
Speaker 3: is where is this interest coming from and why do
Speaker 3: you continue to be such a passionate advocate, which, by
Speaker 3: the way, I'm very grateful for.
Speaker 10: I'll say that when I first got involved, I never
Speaker 10: planned on streaming or revealing my voice or anything about me,
Speaker 10: and I don't know that if I was told back
Speaker 10: then this is what it would be, that I would
Speaker 10: even believe it or necessarily be on board, because it's
Speaker 10: a lot a lot, it's a lot of time, it's
Speaker 10: a lot of dedication.
Speaker 3: I am just blown away by what you've done, and
Speaker 3: I just want you to understan that has not gone unnoticed,
Speaker 3: and I can't thank you all enough.
Speaker 1: He's talking about not only Schnitzel Ninja, but the whole
Speaker 1: community who organized online support for Clayton, Greg and Mike.
Speaker 1: One of the Day One supporters was Dave Neil. You've
Speaker 1: heard from him throughout this series. He told me covering
Speaker 1: this case has been one of the wildest rides of
Speaker 1: his career.
Speaker 4: Every day was a new twist, and that's why it's
Speaker 4: so hard to explain this story to people. When people
Speaker 4: ask me about the story, I always say, how much
Speaker 4: time do you have? I will give you a ten
Speaker 4: hour version that's just as interesting as a thirty minute
Speaker 4: version because so much has happened. And if there's anything
Speaker 4: anybody can take away from this, it is if you're
Speaker 4: ever dealing with private threats, if you're ever dealing with
Speaker 4: private bullies, or even a husband or anybody that's in
Speaker 4: the dark treating you a certain way, air that shit
Speaker 4: out and the communities will rally around you. I've said
Speaker 4: it all along. Sun Light's the greatest disinfectant, and it's
Speaker 4: led us to the truth. I'm glad that we were
Speaker 4: able to have these conversations in a place where we
Speaker 4: did everything we could. We got it to the finish line,
Speaker 4: and it's kind of out of our hands.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to report on a story, it's another
Speaker 1: thing to experience it this past year, I got to
Speaker 1: follow Mike Marraccini's journey in real time. When I started reporting,
Speaker 1: Laura was already charged with seven felonies. No one expected
Speaker 1: she would file to renew the restraining order against Mike again,
Speaker 1: but as we all know, she did. Witnessing the emotions
Speaker 1: in San Francisco gave me a visceral understanding of how
Speaker 1: Laura's actions affect other people. When Laura didn't show the
Speaker 1: first time and the judge issued a continuance, Mike and
Speaker 1: Danielle were devastated. It happened. I sat down with Schnitze
Speaker 1: Ninja because she was in town two. I think one
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to hear Danielle say was I
Speaker 1: just want to get home to my kids. I'm not
Speaker 1: a mom, but as a mom, Like, how does that
Speaker 1: make you feel?
Speaker 10: I didn't know. She said that it makes me sad.
Speaker 10: None of them deserve any of this. Laura fully intended
Speaker 10: on not coming at all today or yesterday, and she
Speaker 10: knew they would have to leave their kids with somebody.
Speaker 1: The night of the DVRO renewal hearing, Mike and Danielle's
Speaker 1: daughter noticed her parents' anxiety she's only a toddler. Danielle
Speaker 1: remembers that evening vividly.
Speaker 11: My daughter's very empathic and she picks up on a lot,
Speaker 11: and she knew that something was wrong, and she would
Speaker 11: be like, are you okay, Daddy? Are you okay? And
Speaker 11: we actually ended up explaining it to her because we
Speaker 11: do best and worst part of our day every day
Speaker 11: at dinner. So I said, you know, the worst part
Speaker 11: of my day was this woman is really mean to daddy.
Speaker 11: And she goes, who, what's her name? Tell me her name?
Speaker 11: And I got her name's Laura. And she's been very
Speaker 11: mean to daddy. And she looks at Mike and she goes, Daddy,
Speaker 11: are you okay? Did she yell at you? And then
Speaker 11: before he could answer, she goes, well, if she ever
Speaker 11: tries to get me and yell at me, you're going
Speaker 11: to say something right, And I go, oh, don't you
Speaker 11: worry if that ever happened. Yes, there would be conversations.
Speaker 1: They had to tell their daughter about bad people in
Speaker 1: the world. Here's Mike.
Speaker 9: She's like the most friendly little four year old. She
Speaker 9: opens the door for everybody ups man amson person included,
Speaker 9: oyses waves and says thank you. And so I told her.
Speaker 9: I was like, you cannot answer the door, that you
Speaker 9: can't just trust everybody, like this person could be a
Speaker 9: bad guy. It's what I have to tell.
Speaker 1: There's one part of Mike's story we haven't talked about yet.
Speaker 1: While he was dating Laura, Mike's own mother believed her
Speaker 1: and empathized with her.
Speaker 9: My mom always has like a really soft spot in
Speaker 9: her heart for people that are struggling and especially mentally,
Speaker 9: and she thought Laura was just going through a lot.
Speaker 9: She replayed it to me years later, She's like, I
Speaker 9: thought this person was going through multiple abortions. I thought
Speaker 9: this person was going through cancer. I thought this person
Speaker 9: was losing their father. I thought this person was struggling
Speaker 9: with their mental health of you know, wanting to commit suicide.
Speaker 9: And so I just thought it would be a really
Speaker 9: low move for you to leave somebody. During that time,
Speaker 9: I was getting pressure from not just her family, but
Speaker 9: from my family as well to say in a relationship
Speaker 9: with Laura.
Speaker 2: It was really painful. Actually, I remember this. My mom
Speaker 2: was so.
Speaker 9: Angry with me because she believed Laura over me, and
Speaker 9: Laura knews she can u lez my mom against me.
Speaker 1: At the time, I'm recording this. Laura's TEDx talk about
Speaker 1: Mike is still up. Maybe it's because that particular chapter
Speaker 1: was run by high school students, but the online community
Speaker 1: has been fighting to get it taken down. Here's Mike.
Speaker 9: I wish they would take it down. I don't know
Speaker 9: why it hasn't been taken down. I've reached out to
Speaker 9: have them take it down. I know other individuals have
Speaker 9: reached out to have them take it down. I know
Speaker 9: or powerful people with a bigger influence have reached out
Speaker 9: to have it taken down, and nothing has worked.
Speaker 1: Before we close the chapter on Mike, there's one more
Speaker 1: update I wish I didn't have to share. At the
Speaker 1: end of the last episode, we heard about how the
Speaker 1: domestic violence restraining order against him was dismissed.
Speaker 12: I just feel really really I feel really, really good
Speaker 12: because this has been such a long time coming. I've
Speaker 12: been fighting for almost ten years, and I've had the
Speaker 12: support of everybody.
Speaker 9: That's the only reason why I've been able to get
Speaker 9: through this.
Speaker 1: But there's been an update. Laura didn't let it go.
Speaker 1: She filed to appeal the dismissal. I talked with Mike's attorney,
Speaker 1: Rachel Warrez about the news.
Speaker 13: After the dismissal of the DVRO by the trial court,
Speaker 13: Laura filed a notice of appeal. The purpose of a
Speaker 13: notice of appeal is simply to indicate to the court
Speaker 13: I will be appealing. A notice of appeal does not,
Speaker 13: by design disclose the grounds for appeal. Subsequent to that,
Speaker 13: there were some filings in the trial court that gave
Speaker 13: an indication what her grounds for appeal might be.
Speaker 1: Laura's appellet brief was due on April twenty eighth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six, but a few days before Laura filed an
Speaker 1: extension with the San Francisco Superior Court. She asked for
Speaker 1: an additional sixty days and it was granted. It's now
Speaker 1: due at the end of June twenty twenty six. I've
Speaker 1: had a voice actor read from her filing.
Speaker 8: Petitioner hereby advises this court and places respondent on formal
Speaker 8: notice that, independent of the outcome of this application, she
Speaker 8: intends to seek a new domestic violence protective order arising
Speaker 8: from the respondent's recent and ongoing conduct.
Speaker 1: Here's Rachel again.
Speaker 13: I can't imagine for the life of me what that
Speaker 13: conduct would be. It doesn't surprise me that she has
Speaker 13: made that statement. It's also very consistent the sort of
Speaker 13: putting people on notice with a threat of litigation that
Speaker 13: hasn't come yet. This is one of her mos. She
Speaker 13: constantly tells people, I will be sending you a cease
Speaker 13: and assist letter, I will be suing you, I will
Speaker 13: be charging you with something.
Speaker 1: The conduct Laura's referencing is that Mike has been participating
Speaker 1: in public media appearances. Laura doesn't specify which appearances in
Speaker 1: her filing, but Mike has appeared on Inside Edition, on
Speaker 1: interviews with YouTube content creators, and on this podcast. Laura
Speaker 1: claims those appearances contain material falsehoods. Mike says he's just
Speaker 1: telling the truth.
Speaker 13: I don't believe there are any grounds here to find
Speaker 13: that Mike's sharing his story as part of this broader
Speaker 13: narrative that's coming out would be considered domestic violence.
Speaker 1: It means that it's still not quite over, and it
Speaker 1: likely won't be for a long time.
Speaker 13: Mike is currently looking for appellet. Council appeals are a
Speaker 13: very different animal than trial court proceedings. Even if somebody
Speaker 13: brings a claim against you that doesn't prevail in the
Speaker 13: trial court when they appeal the dismissal, you have to
Speaker 13: find a new attorney and a pellet attorney, because most
Speaker 13: trial attorneys are not also appellet attorneys. So it really
Speaker 13: scores that even defending against a claim that ultimately ends
Speaker 13: up to be unsuccessful can involve hundreds of thousands of dollars,
Speaker 13: multiple attorneys, multiple different courts. So I think it's important
Speaker 13: that simply because this appeal may not be successful, it
Speaker 13: is still another tremendous use of resources and a significant
Speaker 13: burden on Mike just to fight an appeal of a dismissal.
Speaker 1: And then there's always the possibility that Laura files for
Speaker 1: an entirely new domestic violence restraining order against Mike.
Speaker 2: Yes, that will.
Speaker 13: Always be on the table, the possibility of another DVRRO.
Speaker 1: Mike and Danielle have come to accept that fact. Here's Danielle,
Speaker 1: this is never going away.
Speaker 11: She is never going to let this go.
Speaker 1: Danielle told me that she and Mike will get through this,
Speaker 1: and that she's already overcome a lot in her life.
Speaker 11: The amount of work that I have had to do
Speaker 11: on myself and the demons that I have had to
Speaker 11: face are not for the faint of heart and I'm
Speaker 11: not trying to pad myself on the back, but Laura
Speaker 11: Owens could never be anything close to me.
Speaker 1: I asked Danielle what she would say to Laura if
Speaker 1: she had the opportunity.
Speaker 11: I would want her to know how much she's hurt me,
Speaker 11: but she did not break me that. Ultimately, the life
Speaker 11: that she missed out on is tragic, and I do
Speaker 11: feel bad for her to never experience the love that
Speaker 11: I have with my husband, the love that I have
Speaker 11: with my children, the friendships that I have worked to
Speaker 11: keep for as long as I have. That is a shame.
Speaker 11: That's a real shame. And ultimately, get help. All of
Speaker 11: the men that have been involved at one point or
Speaker 11: another had said, like if you just like take accountability
Speaker 11: and say you're guilty and like get help, like we
Speaker 11: would accept that. I know Clayton has said that. I
Speaker 11: know Mike said that these men were willing to walk
Speaker 11: away from her with just an apology and her taking
Speaker 11: accountability and she'll just have to pay the price.
Speaker 1: Now, we've heard from a lot of strong women in
Speaker 1: this series, and without my prompting, so many of them
Speaker 1: brought up one specific concern about Laura's actions.
Speaker 11: Ultimately, the mockery that she has made of all of
Speaker 11: these systems that serve real victims is what gets me
Speaker 11: really fired up. She just lacks empathy is incomprehensible. The
Speaker 11: amount that she has wasted.
Speaker 1: Even Clayton's ex girlfriend, Susie Evans, who he met on
Speaker 1: The Bachelor, told me that of all the things Laura's done,
Speaker 1: this is what offends her most. When the story first
Speaker 1: came out, Clayton told Susie what was going on, and
Speaker 1: she believed him, but then the news broke online.
Speaker 8: Here's Susie.
Speaker 14: I saw so many comments saying believe women, believe women,
Speaker 14: believe women, and ask someone that also feels that way.
Speaker 14: I'm like, if we just believe women, so many things
Speaker 14: would be resolved and people would be more inclined to
Speaker 14: come forward. I've been in a position where I was
Speaker 14: afraid to speak out about something that happened to me
Speaker 14: on a college campus. I reported an incident that happened
Speaker 14: and it was not taken seriously and because there's no evidence,
Speaker 14: like nothing can be done, and to see somebody put
Speaker 14: themselves out there and fabricate a lie, and basically I
Speaker 14: don't want to say, said us back because I don't
Speaker 14: want to believe that, but like, that's what it kind
Speaker 14: of is. It feels like a total slap in the
Speaker 14: face to women, a waste of resources, a waste of
Speaker 14: energy and time.
Speaker 1: Mike's attorney, Rachel Warrez, said something similar.
Speaker 13: She used very scarce victims advocate resources attorneys that represent
Speaker 13: victims of domestic violence who are excellent at what they do,
Speaker 13: and it is so wonderful that they exist, but they
Speaker 13: can't help everybody, and she took the place of somebody
Speaker 13: who probably really needed their help. There are so many
Speaker 13: scarce resources that are being used, and there are resources
Speaker 13: people aren't even thinking of that she's using, and in
Speaker 13: a resource strapped environment, it's really horrible.
Speaker 1: It's not just about judicial resources, although that's an important part.
Speaker 1: One of Clayton's attorneys, Deandra Arena, brought up an even
Speaker 1: larger concern.
Speaker 15: I think that when people come forward with false or
Speaker 15: illegitimate claims, it detracts from all of the real victims
Speaker 15: in those cases. So I certainly don't appreciate that as
Speaker 15: a woman. It absolutely affects the others who have legitimate
Speaker 15: stories and have been perpetrated against.
Speaker 1: This story clearly strikes a nerve. Since the show began airing,
Speaker 1: dozens of listeners have reached out to express their outrage.
Speaker 1: I think it's because so many people have their own
Speaker 1: traumatic personal experiences with the things Laura's claimed, like pregnancy loss,
Speaker 1: sexual assault, or domestic violence. A few weeks ago, I
Speaker 1: got an email in the Love Trapped in box from
Speaker 1: a woman named Nicole Schmidt. You might not recognize that name,
Speaker 1: but you'll probably recognize her daughters Gabby Petito. Five years ago,
Speaker 1: Gabby was murdered by her fiance. She was only twenty two.
Speaker 1: The case became nationwide news. I followed it every day.
Speaker 1: Nicole used the platform to start the Gabby Petito Foundation.
Speaker 1: According to the website, they help free others from the
Speaker 1: dangers of intimate partner violence. Gabby Potito's mom has been
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. I asked her if I could
Speaker 1: share a part of her email. Here's what she wrote.
Speaker 1: So many real victims have to fight to be heard
Speaker 1: and believed, and situations like this only make it harder
Speaker 1: for others to come forward out of fear they will
Speaker 1: not be believed. But it also leaves me asking how
Speaker 1: do we begin to undo the damage that has been done?
Speaker 1: By this one horrible person, because every false story does
Speaker 1: not just mislead people, it silences the real ones who
Speaker 1: are still trying to find the courage to speak. There's
Speaker 1: one big question. I know everyone wants the answer to
Speaker 1: what's wrong with Laura Owens. I am not a psychologist,
Speaker 1: and I am not her psychologist. I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of comments speculating about diagnoses Laura might have, but we
Speaker 1: can only report on what she's self identified with, and
Speaker 1: Laura's got quite the running list. In her own court filings,
Speaker 1: She's claimed to have epilepsy, post traumatic stress disorder, traumatic
Speaker 1: brain injury, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, anorexia, ner ROSA,
Speaker 1: and autism spectrum disorder. She really wants the public to
Speaker 1: know about her alleged autism diagnosis, because in December twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, right as the criminal investigation began closing in,
Speaker 1: Laura published this medium blog. We've had some segments read
Speaker 1: by a voice.
Speaker 16: Actor over the years. I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, ADHD,
Speaker 16: and PTSD. Each one explained a piece of the puzzle,
Speaker 16: but never the whole picture. Then, after my life fell
Speaker 16: apart in ways I could never have imagined, I found
Speaker 16: out the truth. I have high functioning autism.
Speaker 1: The blog is titled I was just diagnosed with autism,
Speaker 1: and it explains everything. The vast majority of the blog
Speaker 1: isn't about autism at all. Instead, Laura tells the story
Speaker 1: of how she's been unfairly treated by Clayton, by the courts,
Speaker 1: and by the quote unquote JFC coult.
Speaker 16: I'm not here to ask for your approval, and I
Speaker 16: don't need your sympathy. But if there's one thing I
Speaker 16: hope you take away from this, it's that you never
Speaker 16: knew me. My reactions freezing, withdrawing, hesitating, weren't signs of
Speaker 16: deception or manipulation. They were shaped by a developmental disorder
Speaker 16: I didn't even know I had.
Speaker 1: The online community had a lot of feelings about this
Speaker 1: blog post. Here's a few of the Reddit and YouTube
Speaker 1: comments read by voice actors.
Speaker 8: I have a thirty four year old autistic son. I
Speaker 8: resent the hell out of her using autism to excuse
Speaker 8: her actions.
Speaker 4: As a board certified psychiatrist, know.
Speaker 7: As a special education teacher who works with many kids
Speaker 7: on the autism spectrum, this is insulting. If she has autism,
Speaker 7: it explains none of her behavior.
Speaker 2: I have twelve year old autistic twins. One thing about
Speaker 2: them is they don't like to lie or break rules.
Speaker 17: She literally can't stop herself from offending every group of
Speaker 17: people possible cancer, miscarriage, domestic violence, sexual assault, racism, cybraably, etc.
Speaker 17: Now autism.
Speaker 7: What will she pick next?
Speaker 16: My husband got diagnosed a few months ago, and my
Speaker 16: five year old son got diagnosed last year. Neither of
Speaker 16: them would pull the diabolical crap that she did. This
Speaker 16: is utterly offensive.
Speaker 1: Like we said at the start of this episode, we
Speaker 1: wanted to end this season by hearing from Laura directly.
Speaker 1: I would like to ask her more about how her
Speaker 1: alleged autism diagnosis explains everything. But Laura, much like her story,
Speaker 1: seems to be a moving target. When Laura's been questioned
Speaker 1: in the past, she turns to a familiar tactic, the
Speaker 1: angry email. Most people you've heard from in this story
Speaker 1: have received one, usually more than one, and they all
Speaker 1: described the same feeling, a suffocating, all consuming anxiety, every
Speaker 1: time they saw one in the inbox.
Speaker 4: It's hard to explain to somebody how the hairs on
Speaker 4: your neck immediately go up when you see you get
Speaker 4: an email from Laura Owens.
Speaker 2: She always tagged her emails with th read receipts.
Speaker 13: Laura had a propensity to use email tracking, and she
Speaker 13: would comment about how many times we opened her emails.
Speaker 3: Oh, when I tell you five hundred emails. It was
Speaker 3: just every freaking day.
Speaker 4: You have to understand every email you'd get from Laura
Speaker 4: would mess up your day. It was a threat. It
Speaker 4: was like, at some point, you just don't want to
Speaker 4: open these emails.
Speaker 1: Laura's emails are so notorious that her usual sign off
Speaker 1: all the Best, has become an inside joke in the
Speaker 1: online community. There's even a website dedicated to exposing Laura's
Speaker 1: alleged crimes. It's called all the Best Research. The content
Speaker 1: creators told me about how personal and vitriolic her emails
Speaker 1: can be. I sympathized, but I didn't fully understand it.
Speaker 1: That was until Laura started emailing me. When our production
Speaker 1: company first began developing this series, we actually had a
Speaker 1: meeting with Laura. Our CEO Nancy Glass and executive producer
Speaker 1: Ben Fetterman talked to her for forty three minutes on
Speaker 1: a zoom call. They discussed her participation in a potential
Speaker 1: podcast in documentary that was nine months before the first
Speaker 1: episode of this podcast came out. In an email ahead
Speaker 1: of that meeting, Laura provided a timeline of her version
Speaker 1: of events. For background, all the emails you're about to
Speaker 1: hear are being read by a voice actor. Let me
Speaker 1: pull out some of the most illuminating points from Laura's
Speaker 1: initial timeline.
Speaker 16: I was intimate with Eckerd. I didn't want to have
Speaker 16: sex with him, but he admits in his deposition on
Speaker 16: February second, twenty twenty four, that he did. I alleged
Speaker 16: non consensual sex immediately afterwards to my family and friends,
Speaker 16: and in an email to content creators Dave Neil and
Speaker 16: Steve Carbone, who were harassing me on October twenty third,
Speaker 16: twenty twenty three. I also accused him of it in
Speaker 16: my deposition on March first, twenty twenty four. My claim
Speaker 16: has been ignored by MCAO.
Speaker 1: MCAO stands for the Maricopa County Attorney's Office. They're the
Speaker 1: ones who brought the criminal charges.
Speaker 16: I strongly believe that if Eckerd were a janitor and
Speaker 16: I were a maid, this case would have ended quietly
Speaker 16: the moment I filed to dismiss it. The only reason
Speaker 16: it didn't is because he's quote famous and his fans
Speaker 16: demanded a spectacle.
Speaker 1: In her initial email, Laura told our production company that
Speaker 1: the investigation into her is a horrible use of taxpayer dollars.
Speaker 16: On April eighth, twenty twenty five, my sister Sarah Owens Navare,
Speaker 16: who lives in New York, received a call from her doorman,
Speaker 16: who said that four MCAO detectives were at the front
Speaker 16: desk and needed to speak with her. She was in
Speaker 16: Mexico at the time and spoke on the phone to
Speaker 16: a detective named It seems like a horrible use of
Speaker 16: taxpayer dollars for MCAO to send this many detectives across
Speaker 16: the country to talk to my sister when they didn't
Speaker 16: even have a subpoena to speak with her. They didn't
Speaker 16: even leave business cards with a doorman. Detectives have since
Speaker 16: tried to call her four times, but she has not responded.
Speaker 1: Near the end of the email, after she talks about
Speaker 1: being indicted on seven felonies, she writes.
Speaker 16: I am absolutely terrified of the potential jail time I
Speaker 16: could receive, even though I have never been charged with
Speaker 16: anything in my life.
Speaker 1: The next day, Laura met on Zoom with our production
Speaker 1: company Last Podcasts. Apparently it was a positive interaction. After that,
Speaker 1: the ball was in Laura's court, but she stopped responding
Speaker 1: about her participation. About a month later, we asked to
Speaker 1: talk with her mother, Jan Black. We got a reply
Speaker 1: back stating that because Jan was listed as a witness
Speaker 1: in the criminal proceedings, she couldn't speak either. A few
Speaker 1: months later, I emailed Laura's then criminal attorney, Joshua Coles Rudd,
Speaker 1: requesting a statement from him or Laura.
Speaker 18: This was his reply, Dear miss Young, thank you for
Speaker 18: reaching out. As much as we appreciate your fair and
Speaker 18: balanced approach, our professional rules require that we decline your
Speaker 18: interview request. Lawyers are forbidden for making extra judicial statements
Speaker 18: about an ongoing case and the requested format. Miss Owens
Speaker 18: will also not be making any statements at this time.
Speaker 18: Best regards, Joshua Callsrudd.
Speaker 1: We reached out to Laura again before the first episode aired.
Speaker 1: This is what I sent her on February eleventh, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six. Hi, Laura, I'm reaching out to follow up
Speaker 1: on the podcast project we are producing in collaboration with iHeart,
Speaker 1: which you previously discussed with Nancy Glass and Ben Fetterman
Speaker 1: back in May twenty twenty five. At the time, your
Speaker 1: former attorney, Josh Colesrudd, indicated that you wouldn't be making
Speaker 1: a comment given the change in your legal representation. I
Speaker 1: wanted to personally extend the invitation again to see if
Speaker 1: your stance has changed and if you'd be interested in
Speaker 1: sharing your perspective with us. We'd like to ask you
Speaker 1: a few questions and give you the opportunity to speak
Speaker 1: on your own behalf. If you would like to participate,
Speaker 1: we need a decision by Friday, February thirteenth, at five
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time. If you're interested, we could schedule an
Speaker 1: interview with the signed release on any of the following days,
Speaker 1: Monday February sixteenth, Tuesday February seventeenth, or Wednesday, February eighteenth.
Speaker 1: We completely understand if ongoing litigation prevents you from speaking
Speaker 1: at this time. While we haven't reached out to your
Speaker 1: parents or sister out of respect for their roles as
Speaker 1: witnesses in the upcoming trial, we would welcome the opportunity
Speaker 1: to speak with them if they are willing. Please feel
Speaker 1: free to share my contact information with them or any
Speaker 1: friends colleagues or representatives who might be open to an interview.
Speaker 1: We want to ensure that we include as many relevant
Speaker 1: voices as possible. Please let me know how you'd like
Speaker 1: to proceed.
Speaker 8: Thank you.
Speaker 1: This was Laura's reply to.
Speaker 16: Me Hi Stephanie. I hope this email finds you well.
Speaker 16: It is very upsetting to receive a forty eight hour
Speaker 16: deadline to respond to an interview request for a project
Speaker 16: that has been in development for months, particularly when I
Speaker 16: appear to be this central figure. You have known since
Speaker 16: December that I am no longer represented by Josh, yet
Speaker 16: only now in February are you reaching out directly and
Speaker 16: requesting my participation on such short notice that does not
Speaker 16: constitute a meaningful or equitable opportunity to contribute. Timing further
Speaker 16: reinforces the appearance that one perspective has already been developed
Speaker 16: over an extended period, while the other is being compressed
Speaker 16: into a last minute window in an apparent attempt to
Speaker 16: check the box that I was contacted, cover your back legally,
Speaker 16: and push forward with a narrative that is completely out
Speaker 16: of context with the facts.
Speaker 1: As a reminder, Laura met with our production company about
Speaker 1: nine months prior to discuss her potential participation in this series.
Speaker 1: Her email went on to allege her mother reached out
Speaker 1: to me, but that I had not replied. I have
Speaker 1: no record of communication from her mother in my company
Speaker 1: or personal inbox. She also said that a dear friend
Speaker 1: of hers replied to my request for comment twice, but
Speaker 1: I have no record of that either. Laura ended her
Speaker 1: email by letting us know there would soon be new information.
Speaker 1: I'm still waiting on that.
Speaker 16: There is substantial information that will soon become public which
Speaker 16: will materially affect how this situation is understood. Other documentary
Speaker 16: and podcast producers have put their projects on hold while
Speaker 16: the story plays out. If you choose to go forward
Speaker 16: with yours, please be advised that I will aggressively pursue
Speaker 16: appropriate legal remedies with respect to any portrayal that is
Speaker 16: inaccurate or unfair. Warmest regards, Laura Owens.
Speaker 1: After this email, we expected to start seeing one every week,
Speaker 1: but it was few and far between. That was until
Speaker 1: episode seven, when we played this teaser at the very end.
Speaker 9: My name is Mike Peruccini. I dated Laura from March
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen through summer of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: This is when we found out Laura herself was tuning
Speaker 1: in because after that episode, Laura sent an email subject
Speaker 1: line formal notice regarding Love Trapped content scheduled to air
Speaker 1: four nine twenty six.
Speaker 16: Hello, I am writing to raise concerns about the accuracy
Speaker 16: and fairness of the narrative being presented in Love Trapped,
Speaker 16: including prior episodes, recent promotional materials, and information I have
Speaker 16: obtained regarding upcoming segments involving Michael Maruccini.
Speaker 1: It seems like Laura heard Mike's voice in the teaser
Speaker 1: and she was upset about it. This email is about
Speaker 1: five pages long. According to her, Mike Marraccini is misrepresenting
Speaker 1: himself as a victim. Laura says he's lying. At the
Speaker 1: time she sent this email, Mike's episode hadn't aired yet,
Speaker 1: all she heard was the teaser, and she signs off
Speaker 1: by saying.
Speaker 16: You are now on notice of the nature of these
Speaker 16: statements any decision to include or rely on them as
Speaker 16: factual within your production and Carrie's corresponding legal risk. I
Speaker 16: trust this information will be taken into account before any
Speaker 16: further content is aired.
Speaker 1: We received another email the following week.
Speaker 16: To whom it may concern I am writing to place
Speaker 16: you on formal notice that episode eight of Love Trapped
Speaker 16: contains numerous false, defamatory, and materially misleading statements about me,
Speaker 16: Laura Owens, as well as my parents, Ron Owens and
Speaker 16: jan Black.
Speaker 1: This email included five PDF attachments with a total of
Speaker 1: twenty one pages. They were broken down into categories Iceland, Dubai,
Speaker 1: family relationships, post relationship conduct, and my favorite category other notes.
Speaker 1: Let me summarize these attachments. Iceland. Laura said it was
Speaker 1: a personal trip, not a work trip. According to her,
Speaker 1: she and Mike stayed in the same way room that
Speaker 1: seemed particularly important to her. She again referenced Napkin Lady's
Speaker 1: account of the events on the flight, calling it sworn
Speaker 1: third party evidence.
Speaker 2: Dubai.
Speaker 1: I'll read this quote directly. The Dubai segment of the
Speaker 1: show constructs the narrative in which mister Marraccini is portrayed
Speaker 1: as a reluctant participant pressured into international travel. That framing
Speaker 1: is not supported by the contemporaneous record Family Relationships. She
Speaker 1: contradicts Mike's account that her parents pressured him into staying
Speaker 1: in the relationship. She claims the portrayal of her parents'
Speaker 1: involvement is false and unsubstantiated. Post relationship conduct, Laura claims
Speaker 1: after their relationship ended, Mike was the one initiating contact
Speaker 1: with her even following her, not the other way around.
Speaker 1: Other notes. This is where Laura goes into detail about
Speaker 1: quite a few grievances, big and small, but most were
Speaker 1: about the way her relationship with Mike was portrayed. It
Speaker 1: seemed like her biggest issue is what she calls the
Speaker 1: trap narrative. She writes that because no baby was born quote,
Speaker 1: a pregnancy that produces no child creates nothing that keeps
Speaker 1: a man anywhere he does not want to be. Again.
Speaker 1: These are all attachments full of selected excerpts from documents
Speaker 1: and recordings.
Speaker 16: The attached materials document specific, concrete instances in which the
Speaker 16: episode's claims are directly contradicted by sworn deposition, testimony, contemporaneous
Speaker 16: text message records, medical records, court filings, and third party declarations.
Speaker 1: Then, in advance of the last episode, I reached out
Speaker 1: one final time for a written statement from Laura. We
Speaker 1: asked her to keep her statement to one thousand words
Speaker 1: so we could reasonably read it on this episode. At
Speaker 1: the last minute, she sent this reply, Stephanie, I have
Speaker 1: been offered one thousand words at the end of more
Speaker 1: than fifteen hours of audio constructed to destroy my reputation
Speaker 1: and that of my family. No response I could give
Speaker 1: in that space would begin to address the damage that
Speaker 1: this production has done. She went on to again refute
Speaker 1: Mike Marriuccini's claims in this series. She challenged our use
Speaker 1: of her bankruptcy hearings in episode eleven. Those recordings are
Speaker 1: available in full on YouTube. I wish I could say
Speaker 1: there were more meaningful takeaways from Laura's final email, but
Speaker 1: it's just more of the same personal digs, legal threats,
Speaker 1: and much like in the bodycam footage, no accountability for
Speaker 1: anything whatsoever. Laura remains adamant in her communications that we've
Speaker 1: got the story all wrong. As we wrapped up production,
Speaker 1: I reached out to Greg Gillespie one more time to
Speaker 1: see if he wanted to make a comment. Greg is
Speaker 1: the victim Laura met before Clayton. He sent me a
Speaker 1: short statement that I'm able to share with you, Stephanie.
Speaker 1: What we have gone through as a result of Laura's
Speaker 1: alleged fraudulent actions and alleged criminal behavior has been nothing
Speaker 1: short of an experience from hell. My story is vastly
Speaker 1: different from the one being shared publicly. We will not
Speaker 1: be satisfied until Laura Owens is in prison and restricted
Speaker 1: from bringing further chaos into our lives. Bonus for exposing
Speaker 1: those who assisted her alleged fraud along the way. Greg
Speaker 1: has his own story to tell, but he's not ready
Speaker 1: to do that yet. All three of these men are
Speaker 1: looking forward to a day where they don't have to
Speaker 1: think about Laura Owens anymore. As for Clayton, you don't
Speaker 1: need to worry about him. He says he's doing better
Speaker 1: than ever and he's got an entire community around him.
Speaker 3: I never would have thought that this journey would lead
Speaker 3: us to this point where there are people fighting around
Speaker 3: the clock for me and the other victims.
Speaker 2: But I think these people that are.
Speaker 3: Fighting for me, Mike and Greg are really fighting for
Speaker 3: themselves as well. They were brought into this all because
Speaker 3: of their own trauma that likely Laura triggered when she
Speaker 3: claimed that she went through something that they've actually went through.
Speaker 3: And I don't think people rally around a cause if
Speaker 3: they don't have a strong emotional poll to it, and
Speaker 3: typically the emotional poll is they've experienced something similar.
Speaker 2: I believe that this.
Speaker 3: Support system has been created from trauma triggering that Laura
Speaker 3: has done. She's triggered more than just me and another victims.
Speaker 3: She's triggered a community. I keep saying this, but I'll
Speaker 3: say it again. It's not even about me at this point.
Speaker 3: It's about this community healing. So for me to be
Speaker 3: a small part or that has been awesome.
Speaker 1: Like we said at the beginning of the episode, there
Speaker 1: still isn't an answer about Laura's plea deal. We don't
Speaker 1: know yet if she's going to trial or if she'll
Speaker 1: admit her guilt. We might not have an answer until
Speaker 1: her pre trial hearing, which is currently scheduled for May twentieth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. That being said, we'll be back to
Speaker 1: bring you important updates. Season one of Love Trapped will
Speaker 1: continue when there's news to share in the criminal case
Speaker 1: against Laura Owens, and if Laura goes to trial, I'll
Speaker 1: be there before we end the episode. I want to
Speaker 1: leave you with one final thought. I know it's maddening
Speaker 1: to watch someone be confronted with the same facts over
Speaker 1: and over again and still refuse to accept them. At
Speaker 1: a certain point, you have to let go of the
Speaker 1: idea that there's going to be a moment of clarity,
Speaker 1: a confession, an explanation that makes this all make sense
Speaker 1: for Clayton and the other men in the story. That
Speaker 1: moment may never come.
Speaker 3: My truth is still my truth, and it sucks and
Speaker 3: I'm ready for it to be over.
Speaker 1: Laura's listened to the same twelve episodes you have. She's
Speaker 1: read the reporting, she's seen the evidence, she lived it,
Speaker 1: and she's come to her own conclusion. You've heard the
Speaker 1: same material. Now you have to come to yours. At
Speaker 1: the end of the day, there's one thing that isn't
Speaker 1: a matter of opinion. Laura Owens is facing fourteen felony indictments.
Speaker 1: Clayton eckered is not.
Speaker 4: Track.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to
Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us
Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show.
Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to
Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at
Speaker 1: love Trapped pod at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped
Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. Love Trapped is a production
Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by
Speaker 1: Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Fetterman, Written, produced and
Speaker 1: hosted by me Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique
Speaker 1: la Boord. Producer on this episode is Sidney Glado. Additional
Speaker 1: production support from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri.
Speaker 1: For iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio
Speaker 1: editing and mastering by Anna McLain, Additional editing support by
Speaker 1: Tanner Robbins and Matt Delvecchio. Thank you to our voice
Speaker 1: actors Leslie Tolly, Trey Morgan, Leah Joblow, Tanner Robbins, Taka Zen,
Speaker 1: Caitlin Golden, Anna McLain, Sidney Gladoo, and Todd Gans. This
Speaker 1: podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and leb
Speaker 1: Abramoff at cry Baby Media. The Love Trapped theme is
Speaker 1: composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by Mob Music.
Speaker 1: A special thanks to Kerrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck,
Speaker 1: Ali kas Enter and the entire iHeart podcast team and
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.