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Speaker 1: We left you on a cliffhanger at the end of

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Speaker 1: the last episode, a real time development in the story

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Speaker 1: of Laura Owens. Would she take the plea deal? The

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Speaker 1: deadline came and went and I didn't hear anything. So

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Speaker 1: I called Clayton to see if he had any news.

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Speaker 2: Don dun nothing. We have no idea. We are still

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Speaker 2: waiting for an answer.

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Speaker 1: In a shock to no one, we still don't have

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Speaker 1: an answer, at least not at the time I'm recording this.

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Speaker 1: Laura could be in plea negotiations, or she could be

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Speaker 1: doubling down and refusing to take the plea.

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Speaker 2: I mean, is it anything that we're surprised about.

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Speaker 3: I didn't really expect an answer because Laura's tactics are delayed, delay, delay,

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Speaker 3: and that's just the way that she operates. It's like,

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Speaker 3: let's drag this out as long as I can, so

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Speaker 3: we have no information, which means like from here.

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Speaker 2: I will with everybody else for a docket update.

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Speaker 1: Clayton's seen this pattern so many times he's exhausted by it.

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Speaker 3: There's thousands of loopholes in the court system. She could

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Speaker 3: do this until her face turns blue, and she will.

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Speaker 3: Laura will just go oh loophole. Ooh, no loophole. Oh no, loophol. Okay,

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Speaker 3: that's my fiftieth loophole. Let me slug this monster energy

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Speaker 3: drink and go for my fifty first. And that's what

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Speaker 3: she does, all right. Loophol one hundred, loophole one fifty,

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Speaker 3: loophole three hundred.

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Speaker 2: That's where we're at right now. We're on loophole three hundred.

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Speaker 1: Just because this plea deal expired, it doesn't mean her

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Speaker 1: window to plead guilty is closed. She can plead up

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Speaker 1: until the day of the verdict, and between now and

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Speaker 1: then there's an untold amount of loopholes. The plea deal

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Speaker 1: that expired on April thirtieth was the prosecution's first offer

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Speaker 1: and likely it's most lenient one.

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Speaker 3: If she does not take this, it's only going to

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Speaker 3: get worse for her. But with that being said, the

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Speaker 3: plea comes with the fact that she has to admit wrongdoing,

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Speaker 3: which we know Laura does not like to do so.

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Speaker 2: Again, will she take the plea?

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is in her best interest to do so,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know she's capable.

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Speaker 1: The state usually tries to avoid going to trial. It's expensive.

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Speaker 1: Only two percent of cases go to trial in Maricopa County.

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Speaker 1: I asked Clayton what he thinks is going to happen

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Speaker 1: from here. He started with a disclaimer.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I've been right about Laura once. With

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Speaker 3: every single prediction that I make, I'm always wrong. So

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Speaker 3: keep that in mind. If I had a crystal ball

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Speaker 3: and I was to tell you where we go from here,

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Speaker 3: I feel very strongly that she will not take the

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Speaker 3: plea deal, and she will go to trial, and she

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Speaker 3: will end up with worse charges and she will face

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Speaker 3: prison time, and that would be best case scenario for everybody,

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Speaker 3: including Laura.

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Speaker 2: Laura, I know you're going to listen to this. You

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Speaker 2: are trapped. Wake up.

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Speaker 1: This might be the final episode, but I promise we're

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Speaker 1: not just going to leave you hanging. I'm Stephanie Young.

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Speaker 1: This is love trapped, trapsy. There's a word we've avoided

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Speaker 1: using throughout this entire podcast.

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Speaker 4: God damn, this lady's crazy.

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Speaker 2: It's just some crazy woman, crazy crazy.

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Speaker 5: She's crazy, so crazy.

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Speaker 2: This is the crazy all you're talking about, right.

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Speaker 1: The crazy woman, The woman who brings false allegations of

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Speaker 1: sexual assault, the woman who fabricates pregnancies, the woman who

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Speaker 1: spins a victim narrative at every turn, leaving a trail

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Speaker 1: of destruction behind her. She's a kind of folk villain

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Speaker 1: in our society, and what she's done can be weaponized

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Speaker 1: against all women. Apparently these kinds of stories are pretty popular.

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Speaker 1: They can also be dangerous as women. A lot of

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Speaker 1: us remember the times we've been called crazy. I've been

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Speaker 1: called crazy. You double text, you call too many times,

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Speaker 1: you say I love you too quickly, You want to

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Speaker 1: have conversations about the future, you want to process something

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Speaker 1: that hurt your feelings. You've been gas lit and you react,

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Speaker 1: or worst of all, you've been abused and you tell

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Speaker 1: the truth, and then all of a sudden, you've been

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Speaker 1: assigned the label crazy. I've thought about this word a lot.

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Speaker 1: We've all seen it used to discredit women. I was

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Speaker 1: cautious about taking on a story where the antagonist is

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Speaker 1: such a polarizing figure. I also didn't expect the facts

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Speaker 1: to speak as loudly as they do. After just a

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Speaker 1: few weeks of reporting, I had a realization similar to

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Speaker 1: what reality Steve described.

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Speaker 6: I think it was reading the dating contract. That's when

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Speaker 6: I knew we were not dealing with a person that

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Speaker 6: was living in reality, and that was the most shocking

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Speaker 6: thing to me.

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Speaker 1: I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Fabricated

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Speaker 1: claims like the kind alleged here are incredibly rare. Since

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Speaker 1: the very start of this production, my team and I

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Speaker 1: have been talking about the larger impacts of sharing this

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Speaker 1: kind of narrative, if just retelling it perpetuates this negative

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Speaker 1: stereotype about women, and how we can minimize that. In

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Speaker 1: the end, this is what I've come to. I've reported

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Speaker 1: on the facts. I've utilized public records, many of them

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Speaker 1: submitted by Laura Owens herself. I've also relied on multiple

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Speaker 1: accounts of people who experienced this firsthand. I believe their

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Speaker 1: stories deserve to be told. I've heard this described as

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Speaker 1: a cautionary tale. I want to challenge that a bit.

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Speaker 1: I think the cautionary aspect really falls on each of us,

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Speaker 1: how we interpret it and retell it, and why it's

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Speaker 1: our responsibility to see it as what it is, one

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Speaker 1: single story. When I first talked to Clayton, I didn't

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Speaker 1: expect him to have thought about these repercussions and nuances,

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Speaker 1: but to my surprise, he had, and he brought.

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Speaker 7: It up to me.

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Speaker 3: That's the delicate balance with this whole story, which is

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Speaker 3: why I appreciate you being a woman, and why I

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Speaker 3: do appreciate the vast majority of the supporters of me

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Speaker 3: during this whole fiasco being women, because if it was

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Speaker 3: just a movement of men, then it would be seen

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Speaker 3: as misogynistic, like, oh, if you get attached to this story,

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Speaker 3: is an ichiness to it. It's a men's right activist

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Speaker 3: lead movement. It's never been that never will be anyone

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Speaker 3: that says, well, this is why we shouldn't believe women.

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Speaker 3: I never liked those comments. I never agree with them.

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Speaker 3: That's a dysfunctional mindset.

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Speaker 1: Clayton's never seen this as some broader commentary on women.

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Speaker 1: To him, it's always been about one person, Laura Owens.

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Speaker 3: Laura is one woman that has left a stain greater

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Speaker 3: than just impacting me in the previous victims. This is

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Speaker 3: going to potentially hurt women from being believed in the future.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be associated with a movement where

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Speaker 3: we believe women less.

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Speaker 2: I don't want that.

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Speaker 3: What I want is for people to believe victims, and

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Speaker 3: that's it.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to end this series by finally hearing from

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Speaker 1: Laura Owens herself, and believe me, we've been trying on

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Speaker 1: at least five separate occasions. We've sent her or her

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Speaker 1: attorney a request for an interview, starting as far back

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Speaker 1: as May twenty five, nine months before the podcast came out.

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Speaker 1: I heard from Laura as recently as last week. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about her emails later in this episode. And even

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Speaker 1: though we've asked, she still hasn't agreed to sit for

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Speaker 1: an interview on the record. I've been asked why we're

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Speaker 1: not hearing more from Laura's side, and it's this simple.

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Speaker 1: No one's been willing to talk for a long time.

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Speaker 1: The closest thing we had was this one website, Justicefolaura

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Speaker 1: dot com. On the home page, there's a photo of

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Speaker 1: Laura smiling. We've had a voice actor read from the

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Speaker 1: about section.

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Speaker 8: Just as for Laura exists because of a prosecution that

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Speaker 8: simply does not resemble anything we normally see in American courts.

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Speaker 8: A large coordinated faction of Clayton's fans, which came to

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Speaker 8: call itself Justice for Clayton JFC, had seized on the

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Speaker 8: story and fixated on a single claim that Laura had

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Speaker 8: faked the pregnancy and fabricated everything around it.

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Speaker 1: Actually, on June tenth, twenty twenty four, a judge ruled

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Speaker 1: that Laura was never pregnant with Clayton's twins. We don't

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Speaker 1: know who owns this website, but I have a few guesses.

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Speaker 1: I asked Reality Steve, who's been covering this for almost

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Speaker 1: three years, if he's ever talked with a friend of Laura's.

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Speaker 1: He said no, Neither him nor Dave Neil have.

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Speaker 6: For two people like Dave and myself who were coming

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Speaker 6: at her hard as we were, to never get one

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Speaker 6: thing sent to us, even if someone said, I don't

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Speaker 6: want to reveal my identity, but just no. I went

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Speaker 6: to sixth grade with Laura. She was a great girl.

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Speaker 6: I went to high school with Laura. I was a

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Speaker 6: high school boyfriend of Laura's. I knew Laura two years ago.

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Speaker 6: Somebody you would think would come to Dave and I

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Speaker 6: at some point and say something, and I never got

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Speaker 6: one email.

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Speaker 1: In episode two, I said the same thing. No one

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Speaker 1: who knew Laura would go on the record for an interview.

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Speaker 1: But that changed this week. One of Laura's childhood friends

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Speaker 1: reached out to our show. She had something to say.

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Speaker 1: She would only speak to us if we kept her

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Speaker 1: anonymous and disguised her voice. We asked for verification of

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Speaker 1: her friendship with Laura, and she sent receipts. We didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to expect, if she would defend Laura or not,

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Speaker 1: but we agreed to the interview. We're going to call

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Speaker 1: her Emily, which isn't her real name. What you're going

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Speaker 1: to hear is a voice actor replicating Emily's tape word

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Speaker 1: for word. We wanted to preserve her intention and emotionality.

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Speaker 1: We started by asking her why she reached out to us.

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Speaker 5: It just felt like some background was probably needed. There's

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Speaker 5: just no context to her anymore. She's just this rich

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Speaker 5: horse girl and she puts on this big i'd say,

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Speaker 5: almost a facade. That's just not who she was, at

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Speaker 5: least when she was a child into early adulthood.

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Speaker 1: We asked Emily to describe what Laura was like.

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Speaker 5: Back then, going back into like high school and middle school.

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Speaker 5: Laura wanted to be famous. Laura's parents were famous. She

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Speaker 5: always wanted to be in the limelight. She was a

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Speaker 5: country singer at one point in time, trying to get famous. Laura,

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Speaker 5: I would say, is best described as a keyboard cowboy.

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Speaker 5: She was very popular behind a screen, but in person

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Speaker 5: not that popular and just boy crazy.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to know if she'd ever met Laura's mom, Jan.

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Speaker 7: She had.

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Speaker 5: She and her mom were besties. Jan would drive her

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Speaker 5: around every day. Laura didn't get her driver's license until

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Speaker 5: she was like eighteen. She and her mom just spent

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Speaker 5: all day every day together and had this very strange relationship.

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Speaker 5: Laura could do no wrong. Laura did what she wanted

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Speaker 5: with full unbridled support of her parents. You want a

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Speaker 5: new horse, you get it. You want a new saddle,

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Speaker 5: you get it. You want this, just order it. I

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Speaker 5: don't think she learned how to be rejected. I don't

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Speaker 5: know if she ever really learned how to be told no.

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Speaker 1: Before Laura was publicly identified, Emily saw the headline about

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Speaker 1: a former bachelor being in a paternity dispute with an

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Speaker 1: anonymous woman.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, what a dick, Like, how rude

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Speaker 5: of this guy to knock up some chick and then

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Speaker 5: deny praternity and all this. Not that long later, I

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Speaker 5: saw Laura post some article on Facebook and I was like,

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Speaker 5: holy shit.

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Speaker 1: I read about this immediately. Emily out to her childhood

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Speaker 1: friend to check on her.

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Speaker 5: I DMed her to be like Laura, what the heck, girlfriend,

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Speaker 5: Like this is insane? Are you okay? Like I don't know,

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Speaker 5: thinking that she would be like, yeah, this is nuts.

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Speaker 5: I'm pregnant, this is hard, and she left me on Red.

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Speaker 1: That's when the puzzle pieces started coming together for Emily.

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Speaker 5: Once the initial shock wore off, of like, holy crap,

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Speaker 5: I know that person, Like I spent the night at

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Speaker 5: their home, I spent years with this person. It didn't

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Speaker 5: surprise me, Like she's so desperately wanted to be famous.

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Speaker 5: So as soon as I started following the story and

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Speaker 5: saw that it wasn't just some random person, but Clayton

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Speaker 5: had been on The Bachelor and that he was famous

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Speaker 5: per se, I was like, of course she did that,

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Speaker 5: Like she wanted to be the Bachelor's girlfriend. She wanted

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Speaker 5: that storyline, and she took it too far, like wildly

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Speaker 5: too far. But it didn't shock me at all, Like

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Speaker 5: she wanted that, and I think she's always wanted that.

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Speaker 1: When I started reporting almost a year ago, one of

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Speaker 1: my first steps was to visit Clayton Eckert in person.

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Speaker 1: We sat down at his house in Arizona and talked

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Speaker 1: for a long time. He told me the whole story

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Speaker 1: and gave me the l file. Back then, I had

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Speaker 1: no idea what I was in for. Now that I've

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Speaker 1: become fully immersed, and so have all of you, I

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Speaker 1: returned for another conversation with Clayton. I want to revisit

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Speaker 1: the pivotal moments in his story and ask some outstanding

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Speaker 1: questions of my own. So, Clayton, you and I have

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Speaker 1: talked a lot over the last year. We've done hours

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Speaker 1: of interviews, and a lot of new information has come

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Speaker 1: out since we first started this process, new indictments, a

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Speaker 1: lot of new information along the way with the investigation report.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of want to go back to the

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Speaker 1: very beginning of this story, when Laura first reached out

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Speaker 1: to you, knowing what we know now, what do you

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Speaker 1: see differently?

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Speaker 3: I cannot stress enough to you that Laura was one

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Speaker 3: of the most normal girls that I've ever met and

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Speaker 3: been and interacted with up until she snapped and the

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Speaker 3: darkness washed over her.

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Speaker 1: It did seem pretty normal until it wasn't until you

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Speaker 1: rejected her.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, but until that point there was nothing. She

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Speaker 3: was intelligent. She was talking about homes, and she was

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Speaker 3: excited about buying some properties. I had no idea what

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Speaker 3: I was getting into because she was so good at

258
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Speaker 3: hiding it.

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Speaker 1: Did Laura change your approach to dating and how you're

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Speaker 1: looking for a relationship in the future.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And I realized that I was allowing people into

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Speaker 3: my circle that should never have access to my energy.

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Speaker 3: We saw that photo that Laura got me on. Everyone's like,

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Speaker 3: that's all it took.

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Speaker 1: Clayton's talking about the photo Laura sent him early on,

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Speaker 1: the one where she's wearing writing leggings with her back

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Speaker 1: turned to the camera. After she sent that, Clayton invited

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Speaker 1: her over.

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Speaker 3: I kind of reflected that I was like, Clayton, that's

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Speaker 3: all it took. I really had a serious conversation with myself,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, that's all that it takes for a

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Speaker 3: woman to get access to you.

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Speaker 2: So with that, I still want to date. I still

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Speaker 2: want to settle down. I want to have a family.

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Speaker 3: I want to have a partner that I can grow

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Speaker 3: with and take on the world with. But it's like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm holding myself to a higher standard. Therefore I'm also

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Speaker 3: holding the people that I.

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Speaker 2: Interact with to a higher standard. That's what's changed.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I keep thinking about with

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Speaker 1: this case, and your brother Nate actually brought it up

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Speaker 1: to me, is how different this story might have been

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Speaker 1: if you and Laura actually had sex that night of

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Speaker 1: May twentieth, twenty twenty three. Do you think we'd be

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Speaker 1: where we are today if you had had sex?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Wow, that's a hard question, Stephanie. Like

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Speaker 3: my mind's racing because I think she could have convinced

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Speaker 3: me probably, Like it's almost like, could things be different? Yes,

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Speaker 3: But ultimately, I'll tell you this much, Laura will always

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Speaker 3: find a way. So no matter the circumstances, no matter

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Speaker 3: how they played out, Laura still would.

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Speaker 2: Have found a way to get right here where she

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Speaker 2: is today.

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Speaker 1: According to Clayton, they only had oral sex. Even still,

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Speaker 1: he believed there was a small chance she could have

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Speaker 1: impregnated herself in the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: So I believe that she was potentially pregnant until I

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Speaker 3: found out about Greg. I believe that she successfully performed

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Speaker 3: that spit maneuver.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, yeah, because now you don't believe she was pregnant.

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Speaker 3: Ever, No, I know that she wasn't pregnant now because again,

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Speaker 3: if she ever was, she would have utilized that like

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Speaker 3: she would have then went and got an ultrasound, because

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Speaker 3: you could have gotten an ultrasound and proven you were

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Speaker 3: pregnant and then just avoided the paternity test so that

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Speaker 3: you didn't have to prove it was mine.

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Speaker 2: She could have gotten pregnant by somebody else, right, and.

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Speaker 3: Then claimed it was a possibility, which was a possibility

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Speaker 3: and was something that I was concerned about.

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Speaker 1: There is this big bombshell in the investigation report, which

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Speaker 1: is that she slept with another man two weeks before

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Speaker 1: she hooked up with you, and then one week after.

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Speaker 1: But she told you that she hadn't hooked up with

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Speaker 1: anyone else in a year and over a year. How

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Speaker 1: does that make you feel.

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Speaker 2: To see that in the investigative reports? It to me

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Speaker 2: it was a bit.

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Speaker 3: It's like scary in a way because you realize or

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Speaker 3: you start to draw conclusions or make assumptions. You say,

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Speaker 3: she was slept with a guy before and after she

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Speaker 3: accused me of impregnating her, So like, what was herm there?

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Speaker 3: And again my brain leads to she was trying to

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Speaker 3: get pregnant by him so that she could then carry

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Speaker 3: out this tactic of being pregnant by the bachelor. And

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Speaker 3: she could have made it fart.

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Speaker 1: When I first met with Clayton, he described what he'd

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Speaker 1: been through as attempted trapping. It's another one of those

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Speaker 1: tropes in society, basically a woman trying to get pregnant

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Speaker 1: for money, fame, or even just for a relationship, all

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Speaker 1: while the man she's having sex with is unaware of

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Speaker 1: her goal to get pregnant. Clayton told me that during

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Speaker 1: his time as a pro athlete and in the world

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Speaker 1: of reality TV, this is a real phenomenon men are

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Speaker 1: wary of. I knew what he was talking about because

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Speaker 1: I'd worked in professional sports and saw it firsthand. It's rare,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes it actually happens. Do you still believe in

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Speaker 1: trapping or do you consider what Laura did to you

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Speaker 1: something else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what she was looking to carry out, and

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Speaker 3: she failed. But she did try to pull me into

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Speaker 3: a relationship that I did not want to be in,

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Speaker 3: and that is the definition of trapping, at least in

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Speaker 3: my eyes.

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Speaker 1: Now that we have the full picture and we know

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Speaker 1: what the state alleges and what we read in the

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Speaker 1: investigation report, they said, I'm going to read it to you.

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Speaker 1: Laura Owens, an adult female podcast host created a scheme

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Speaker 1: to elevate her notoriety and increase her commercial value by

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Speaker 1: attempting to blackmail Clayton Eckert, a television celebrity, into a

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Speaker 1: romantic relationship. So basically, the state believes that she targeted you.

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Speaker 1: The investigation report doesn't go into the details of why

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Speaker 1: they came to such a strong conclusion, but we can

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Speaker 1: imagine that the investigators have her search history, her text messages,

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Speaker 1: any other details that they probably haven't released yet. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think the state believed.

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Speaker 3: That they're right they've uncovered her motives because they have

357
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Speaker 3: access to more than I've ever even seen. They have

358
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Speaker 3: not just my exchanges with her over text and email,

359
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 3: they have everything her text message is probably to her mom.

360
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Speaker 3: They have access to all that. They confiscated all of

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Speaker 3: that information. So I would be led to believe that

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Speaker 3: they're pretty spot on with being able to uncover her motives.

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Speaker 3: I think absolutely she was looking to leverage this.

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Speaker 1: You were kind of struggling with your mental health because

365
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Speaker 1: you'd just come off this horrible season of The Bachelor,

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Speaker 1: You'd been dragged through the mud on the internet. You

367
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Speaker 1: broke up with Susie, you moved to Arizona. You were

368
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Speaker 1: trying to start fresh. So if she did target you,

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Speaker 1: she did pick you specifically at a low point. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever thought about it that way? And like, why

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Speaker 1: do you think she did that?

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Speaker 2: Why do I think she came after me in a

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Speaker 2: low point?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because that was going to be her easiest prey.

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Speaker 3: She saw me as somebody that was a wound celebrity,

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Speaker 3: somebody that was a weak celebrity, right, somebody that was vulnerable,

377
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 3: somebody that was polarizing, and somebody that had a chink

378
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Speaker 3: in their armor that she could manipulate and she could

379
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Speaker 3: attack and win.

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Speaker 1: When Laura posted the I am the Anonymous woman thread

381
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Speaker 1: on Reddit, Clayton watched in horror, and so many people

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Speaker 1: immediately took Laura's side.

383
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Speaker 3: For those that didn't believe and were ready to pick

384
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Speaker 3: up their pitchforks and go after me, because there were plenty,

385
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 3: there were plenty. There's a lot of revisionist history out there,

386
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 3: people saying, well, we believe Clayt from the beginning. No,

387
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 3: you didn't know, you didn't. We can go back to

388
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Speaker 3: those early Reddit posts. You definitely did not. So let's

389
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: call it for what it is. You kind of want

390
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Speaker 3: me to be the villain, And why is that.

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Speaker 1: In your situation with Laura. There's a lot of people

392
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Speaker 1: who think that, oh, this would never happen to me.

393
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Speaker 1: I know better. Clayton is naive. Clayton should have known

394
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Speaker 1: that she was making all of this up. He should

395
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Speaker 1: have just stopped responding to her messages and her text messages.

396
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: He should have gone to the police on day one,

397
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Speaker 1: all of these things. What do you think about that

398
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of response.

399
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 3: I've seen the comments like, well, if I was saying,

400
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: I would have just ignored her. And I'm like, that

401
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: is such an ignorant comment, because I tried. Did you

402
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: not hear me talk about thirteen phone numbers? Did you

403
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 3: not hear me talk about blocking the email? Did you

404
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: not hear me.

405
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Speaker 2: Talk about the restraining orders?

406
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: Like? Did you not hear any of this? All your

407
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 3: hearing is just like, well, I would have done it better.

408
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,959
Speaker 3: It's triggering because I didn't.

409
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Speaker 1: When I look at this story as a whole, I

410
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: see two big mistakes Laura made. The first was taking

411
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Speaker 1: this story public. That's how Clayton found out about Greg

412
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: Gillespie and Laura's pattern of behavior without Laura sending the

413
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: story to the tabloids. The internet might have never found it.

414
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,239
Speaker 1: When Clayton first saw the headline in the Sun, he

415
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: couldn't have known where we'd end up today. I asked

416
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: him to revisit that moment when the news broke.

417
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Speaker 3: Ah, Man, I remember, because I was sitting in a

418
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 3: locker room at a pickleball venue by myself, and I'm

419
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 3: staring at the screen. My vision got blurry. I just

420
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 3: remember like disassociating in that moment and thinking like, I

421
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: don't I just don't even feel like what I'm experiencing

422
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 3: is real. It just feels like there's a script running

423
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 3: or a movie playing, and I'm in the Truman Show

424
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: and I'm being watched for everyone's entertainment. This is past

425
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: the point of me making decisions and living a normal life,

426
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 3: Like I feel that I am meant to be this

427
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 3: dramatic character in this movie that I didn't sign up

428
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 3: for but somehow became the lead role in.

429
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Speaker 1: The second mistake I think Laura made was choosing Clayton.

430
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: She underestimated him.

431
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look at the outcome.

432
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 3: I am seeing Laura facing fourteen felony charges and everybody

433
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: knows about her previous victims. Everybody knows about her past.

434
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 3: She believed that there was a version of me that existed.

435
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: That she was wrong about.

436
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 3: She thought that knowing the version of Clayton that I

437
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: believe exists, this will crush him. And what she perceived

438
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 3: me as was completely on and she found out the

439
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 3: hard way.

440
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: This story has a way of pulling people in. It

441
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: happened to me, and I'm far from the only one.

442
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: In fact, I was late to the crowd. Dave Neil

443
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: has been following it since the day the Son article

444
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: came out.

445
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 4: The first time that I knew like how big this

446
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 4: story was show in Huntington Beach and everyone afterwards wanted

447
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 4: to come and talk about the case.

448
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 9: People just they bond over it in a weird way.

449
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: It started with Bachelor Nation fans. That's how Dave and

450
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: Reality Steve found Clayton's story to begin with, but quickly

451
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: they realized this was something much larger. Here's Reality Steve.

452
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 6: I was like, I think this is the biggest story

453
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 6: Bache Nation has ever had. There was just something about it,

454
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 6: And this is before we knew anything, Before we knew

455
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 6: about a Greg Gillespie or Mike Marriccini, and before we

456
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 6: knew about Laura's past. I was like, this is the

457
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 6: biggest thing ever I. I just couldn't think of anything else

458
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 6: that's ever happened to a contestant outside of this show

459
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 6: that was more quote unquote scandalous.

460
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: As the story grew, it became kind of a viral sensation.

461
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: Dozens more content creators started commenting on it. Thousands of

462
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: armchair detectives logged onto Reddit and YouTube. Even before the

463
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: criminal charges or the investigation report, the online community put

464
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: critical pieces of the puzzle together. Looking back on all

465
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: of their connections and discoveries, I genuinely don't know if

466
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: we'd be here today without them.

467
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 4: She had a video she sent us of her father

468
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 4: in the hospital rubbing her pregnant belly. You can clearly

469
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 4: see this isn't Laura Owens. The audience, they're doing mold checks,

470
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 4: they're matching fingernail follicles. It wasn't Laura. She's stealing from

471
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 4: other people and claiming as her own.

472
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 6: Dave and I said to each other, there is zero

473
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 6: chance that she is producing two babies. We guarantee she's

474
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 6: gonna say I had a miscarriage.

475
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

476
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: We have a smoking hCG injection here that we've always

477
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: thought happened.

478
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 4: She could have done a million different things to get

479
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 4: that hCG and it wasn't until they actually investigated her

480
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: that they realized maybe she bought it and shot it herself.

481
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 10: It's well documented that she uses Reddit, and she had

482
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 10: a Reddit account.

483
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 4: Through reverse Google search, people were able to locate this

484
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 4: ultrasound photo as the one that Laura had stolen.

485
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 6: She had ways to do things differently, and she chose

486
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 6: not to. And now you fuck around, you find out.

487
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 6: And that's what it's come down.

488
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 9: To with Laura.

489
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: For two years, there's been someone behind the scenes, quietly

490
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: collecting information, cataloging it, making timelines, and tracking down legal documents.

491
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: You've heard about her, and a few months ago Clayton

492
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: finally met her in person.

493
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 2: I am sitting here with the infamous Schnitzel Ninja.

494
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja's been doing all this work anonymously out of

495
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: an abundance of caution, and she hasn't profited from it.

496
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: When Clayton met her, he was almost starstruck.

497
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: I just have to say, when you came up to

498
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: me today, it was like the big Superman reveal. I

499
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: would love to have that passion that Schnitzel Ninja has

500
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: where she's just pouring into this and not receiving a dime.

501
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: You know, I was like, I can't, I honestly can't

502
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: understand it. It's people like you that have this genuine

503
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: fascination and continue to find new things and keep people

504
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 3: interested that like has now brought life and has kept

505
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: it going until this point. So my question to you

506
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: is where is this interest coming from and why do

507
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: you continue to be such a passionate advocate, which, by

508
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 3: the way, I'm very grateful for.

509
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 10: I'll say that when I first got involved, I never

510
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 10: planned on streaming or revealing my voice or anything about me,

511
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 10: and I don't know that if I was told back

512
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 10: then this is what it would be, that I would

513
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 10: even believe it or necessarily be on board, because it's

514
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 10: a lot a lot, it's a lot of time, it's

515
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 10: a lot of dedication.

516
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 3: I am just blown away by what you've done, and

517
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: I just want you to understan that has not gone unnoticed,

518
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: and I can't thank you all enough.

519
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: He's talking about not only Schnitzel Ninja, but the whole

520
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: community who organized online support for Clayton, Greg and Mike.

521
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: One of the Day One supporters was Dave Neil. You've

522
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: heard from him throughout this series. He told me covering

523
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: this case has been one of the wildest rides of

524
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: his career.

525
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: Every day was a new twist, and that's why it's

526
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 4: so hard to explain this story to people. When people

527
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 4: ask me about the story, I always say, how much

528
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: time do you have? I will give you a ten

529
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: hour version that's just as interesting as a thirty minute

530
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: version because so much has happened. And if there's anything

531
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 4: anybody can take away from this, it is if you're

532
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 4: ever dealing with private threats, if you're ever dealing with

533
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 4: private bullies, or even a husband or anybody that's in

534
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 4: the dark treating you a certain way, air that shit

535
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: out and the communities will rally around you. I've said

536
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 4: it all along. Sun Light's the greatest disinfectant, and it's

537
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 4: led us to the truth. I'm glad that we were

538
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 4: able to have these conversations in a place where we

539
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: did everything we could. We got it to the finish line,

540
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: and it's kind of out of our hands.

541
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: It's one thing to report on a story, it's another

542
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: thing to experience it this past year, I got to

543
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: follow Mike Marraccini's journey in real time. When I started reporting,

544
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: Laura was already charged with seven felonies. No one expected

545
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: she would file to renew the restraining order against Mike again,

546
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: but as we all know, she did. Witnessing the emotions

547
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: in San Francisco gave me a visceral understanding of how

548
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: Laura's actions affect other people. When Laura didn't show the

549
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: first time and the judge issued a continuance, Mike and

550
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: Danielle were devastated. It happened. I sat down with Schnitze

551
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Ninja because she was in town two. I think one

552
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to hear Danielle say was I

553
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: just want to get home to my kids. I'm not

554
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: a mom, but as a mom, Like, how does that

555
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: make you feel?

556
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 10: I didn't know. She said that it makes me sad.

557
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 10: None of them deserve any of this. Laura fully intended

558
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 10: on not coming at all today or yesterday, and she

559
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 10: knew they would have to leave their kids with somebody.

560
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: The night of the DVRO renewal hearing, Mike and Danielle's

561
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: daughter noticed her parents' anxiety she's only a toddler. Danielle

562
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: remembers that evening vividly.

563
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 11: My daughter's very empathic and she picks up on a lot,

564
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 11: and she knew that something was wrong, and she would

565
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 11: be like, are you okay, Daddy? Are you okay? And

566
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 11: we actually ended up explaining it to her because we

567
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 11: do best and worst part of our day every day

568
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 11: at dinner. So I said, you know, the worst part

569
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 11: of my day was this woman is really mean to daddy.

570
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 11: And she goes, who, what's her name? Tell me her name?

571
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 11: And I got her name's Laura. And she's been very

572
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 11: mean to daddy. And she looks at Mike and she goes, Daddy,

573
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 11: are you okay? Did she yell at you? And then

574
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 11: before he could answer, she goes, well, if she ever

575
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 11: tries to get me and yell at me, you're going

576
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 11: to say something right, And I go, oh, don't you

577
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 11: worry if that ever happened. Yes, there would be conversations.

578
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: They had to tell their daughter about bad people in

579
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: the world. Here's Mike.

580
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 9: She's like the most friendly little four year old. She

581
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 9: opens the door for everybody ups man amson person included,

582
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 9: oyses waves and says thank you. And so I told her.

583
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 9: I was like, you cannot answer the door, that you

584
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 9: can't just trust everybody, like this person could be a

585
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 9: bad guy. It's what I have to tell.

586
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: There's one part of Mike's story we haven't talked about yet.

587
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: While he was dating Laura, Mike's own mother believed her

588
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: and empathized with her.

589
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 9: My mom always has like a really soft spot in

590
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 9: her heart for people that are struggling and especially mentally,

591
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 9: and she thought Laura was just going through a lot.

592
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 9: She replayed it to me years later, She's like, I

593
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 9: thought this person was going through multiple abortions. I thought

594
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 9: this person was going through cancer. I thought this person

595
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 9: was losing their father. I thought this person was struggling

596
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 9: with their mental health of you know, wanting to commit suicide.

597
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 9: And so I just thought it would be a really

598
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 9: low move for you to leave somebody. During that time,

599
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 9: I was getting pressure from not just her family, but

600
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 9: from my family as well to say in a relationship

601
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 9: with Laura.

602
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: It was really painful. Actually, I remember this. My mom

603
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: was so.

604
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 9: Angry with me because she believed Laura over me, and

605
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 9: Laura knews she can u lez my mom against me.

606
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: At the time, I'm recording this. Laura's TEDx talk about

607
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: Mike is still up. Maybe it's because that particular chapter

608
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: was run by high school students, but the online community

609
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: has been fighting to get it taken down. Here's Mike.

610
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 9: I wish they would take it down. I don't know

611
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 9: why it hasn't been taken down. I've reached out to

612
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 9: have them take it down. I know other individuals have

613
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 9: reached out to have them take it down. I know

614
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 9: or powerful people with a bigger influence have reached out

615
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 9: to have it taken down, and nothing has worked.

616
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: Before we close the chapter on Mike, there's one more

617
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: update I wish I didn't have to share. At the

618
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: end of the last episode, we heard about how the

619
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: domestic violence restraining order against him was dismissed.

620
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 12: I just feel really really I feel really, really good

621
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 12: because this has been such a long time coming. I've

622
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 12: been fighting for almost ten years, and I've had the

623
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 12: support of everybody.

624
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 9: That's the only reason why I've been able to get

625
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 9: through this.

626
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: But there's been an update. Laura didn't let it go.

627
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: She filed to appeal the dismissal. I talked with Mike's attorney,

628
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: Rachel Warrez about the news.

629
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 13: After the dismissal of the DVRO by the trial court,

630
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 13: Laura filed a notice of appeal. The purpose of a

631
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 13: notice of appeal is simply to indicate to the court

632
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 13: I will be appealing. A notice of appeal does not,

633
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 13: by design disclose the grounds for appeal. Subsequent to that,

634
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 13: there were some filings in the trial court that gave

635
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 13: an indication what her grounds for appeal might be.

636
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: Laura's appellet brief was due on April twenty eighth, twenty

637
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: twenty six, but a few days before Laura filed an

638
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: extension with the San Francisco Superior Court. She asked for

639
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: an additional sixty days and it was granted. It's now

640
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: due at the end of June twenty twenty six. I've

641
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: had a voice actor read from her filing.

642
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 8: Petitioner hereby advises this court and places respondent on formal

643
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 8: notice that, independent of the outcome of this application, she

644
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 8: intends to seek a new domestic violence protective order arising

645
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 8: from the respondent's recent and ongoing conduct.

646
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: Here's Rachel again.

647
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 13: I can't imagine for the life of me what that

648
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 13: conduct would be. It doesn't surprise me that she has

649
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 13: made that statement. It's also very consistent the sort of

650
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 13: putting people on notice with a threat of litigation that

651
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 13: hasn't come yet. This is one of her mos. She

652
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 13: constantly tells people, I will be sending you a cease

653
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 13: and assist letter, I will be suing you, I will

654
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 13: be charging you with something.

655
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: The conduct Laura's referencing is that Mike has been participating

656
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: in public media appearances. Laura doesn't specify which appearances in

657
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: her filing, but Mike has appeared on Inside Edition, on

658
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: interviews with YouTube content creators, and on this podcast. Laura

659
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: claims those appearances contain material falsehoods. Mike says he's just

660
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: telling the truth.

661
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 13: I don't believe there are any grounds here to find

662
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 13: that Mike's sharing his story as part of this broader

663
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 13: narrative that's coming out would be considered domestic violence.

664
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: It means that it's still not quite over, and it

665
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 1: likely won't be for a long time.

666
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 13: Mike is currently looking for appellet. Council appeals are a

667
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 13: very different animal than trial court proceedings. Even if somebody

668
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 13: brings a claim against you that doesn't prevail in the

669
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 13: trial court when they appeal the dismissal, you have to

670
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 13: find a new attorney and a pellet attorney, because most

671
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 13: trial attorneys are not also appellet attorneys. So it really

672
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 13: scores that even defending against a claim that ultimately ends

673
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 13: up to be unsuccessful can involve hundreds of thousands of dollars,

674
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 13: multiple attorneys, multiple different courts. So I think it's important

675
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 13: that simply because this appeal may not be successful, it

676
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 13: is still another tremendous use of resources and a significant

677
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 13: burden on Mike just to fight an appeal of a dismissal.

678
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: And then there's always the possibility that Laura files for

679
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: an entirely new domestic violence restraining order against Mike.

680
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: Yes, that will.

681
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 13: Always be on the table, the possibility of another DVRRO.

682
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: Mike and Danielle have come to accept that fact. Here's Danielle,

683
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: this is never going away.

684
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 11: She is never going to let this go.

685
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: Danielle told me that she and Mike will get through this,

686
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: and that she's already overcome a lot in her life.

687
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 11: The amount of work that I have had to do

688
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 11: on myself and the demons that I have had to

689
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 11: face are not for the faint of heart and I'm

690
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 11: not trying to pad myself on the back, but Laura

691
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 11: Owens could never be anything close to me.

692
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: I asked Danielle what she would say to Laura if

693
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: she had the opportunity.

694
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 11: I would want her to know how much she's hurt me,

695
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 11: but she did not break me that. Ultimately, the life

696
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 11: that she missed out on is tragic, and I do

697
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 11: feel bad for her to never experience the love that

698
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 11: I have with my husband, the love that I have

699
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 11: with my children, the friendships that I have worked to

700
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 11: keep for as long as I have. That is a shame.

701
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 11: That's a real shame. And ultimately, get help. All of

702
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 11: the men that have been involved at one point or

703
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 11: another had said, like if you just like take accountability

704
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 11: and say you're guilty and like get help, like we

705
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 11: would accept that. I know Clayton has said that. I

706
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 11: know Mike said that these men were willing to walk

707
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 11: away from her with just an apology and her taking

708
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 11: accountability and she'll just have to pay the price.

709
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: Now, we've heard from a lot of strong women in

710
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: this series, and without my prompting, so many of them

711
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: brought up one specific concern about Laura's actions.

712
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 11: Ultimately, the mockery that she has made of all of

713
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 11: these systems that serve real victims is what gets me

714
00:41:53,880 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 11: really fired up. She just lacks empathy is incomprehensible. The

715
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 11: amount that she has wasted.

716
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: Even Clayton's ex girlfriend, Susie Evans, who he met on

717
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: The Bachelor, told me that of all the things Laura's done,

718
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: this is what offends her most. When the story first

719
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: came out, Clayton told Susie what was going on, and

720
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: she believed him, but then the news broke online.

721
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 8: Here's Susie.

722
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 14: I saw so many comments saying believe women, believe women,

723
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 14: believe women, and ask someone that also feels that way.

724
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 14: I'm like, if we just believe women, so many things

725
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 14: would be resolved and people would be more inclined to

726
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 14: come forward. I've been in a position where I was

727
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 14: afraid to speak out about something that happened to me

728
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 14: on a college campus. I reported an incident that happened

729
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 14: and it was not taken seriously and because there's no evidence,

730
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 14: like nothing can be done, and to see somebody put

731
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 14: themselves out there and fabricate a lie, and basically I

732
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 14: don't want to say, said us back because I don't

733
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 14: want to believe that, but like, that's what it kind

734
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 14: of is. It feels like a total slap in the

735
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 14: face to women, a waste of resources, a waste of

736
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 14: energy and time.

737
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: Mike's attorney, Rachel Warrez, said something similar.

738
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 13: She used very scarce victims advocate resources attorneys that represent

739
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 13: victims of domestic violence who are excellent at what they do,

740
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 13: and it is so wonderful that they exist, but they

741
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 13: can't help everybody, and she took the place of somebody

742
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 13: who probably really needed their help. There are so many

743
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 13: scarce resources that are being used, and there are resources

744
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 13: people aren't even thinking of that she's using, and in

745
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 13: a resource strapped environment, it's really horrible.

746
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: It's not just about judicial resources, although that's an important part.

747
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: One of Clayton's attorneys, Deandra Arena, brought up an even

748
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: larger concern.

749
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 15: I think that when people come forward with false or

750
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 15: illegitimate claims, it detracts from all of the real victims

751
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 15: in those cases. So I certainly don't appreciate that as

752
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 15: a woman. It absolutely affects the others who have legitimate

753
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 15: stories and have been perpetrated against.

754
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: This story clearly strikes a nerve. Since the show began airing,

755
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: dozens of listeners have reached out to express their outrage.

756
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: I think it's because so many people have their own

757
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: traumatic personal experiences with the things Laura's claimed, like pregnancy loss,

758
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: sexual assault, or domestic violence. A few weeks ago, I

759
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: got an email in the Love Trapped in box from

760
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: a woman named Nicole Schmidt. You might not recognize that name,

761
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: but you'll probably recognize her daughters Gabby Petito. Five years ago,

762
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: Gabby was murdered by her fiance. She was only twenty two.

763
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: The case became nationwide news. I followed it every day.

764
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 1: Nicole used the platform to start the Gabby Petito Foundation.

765
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: According to the website, they help free others from the

766
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: dangers of intimate partner violence. Gabby Potito's mom has been

767
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. I asked her if I could

768
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: share a part of her email. Here's what she wrote.

769
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: So many real victims have to fight to be heard

770
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: and believed, and situations like this only make it harder

771
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: for others to come forward out of fear they will

772
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: not be believed. But it also leaves me asking how

773
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: do we begin to undo the damage that has been done?

774
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: By this one horrible person, because every false story does

775
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: not just mislead people, it silences the real ones who

776
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: are still trying to find the courage to speak. There's

777
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: one big question. I know everyone wants the answer to

778
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: what's wrong with Laura Owens. I am not a psychologist,

779
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: and I am not her psychologist. I've seen a lot

780
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: of comments speculating about diagnoses Laura might have, but we

781
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: can only report on what she's self identified with, and

782
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: Laura's got quite the running list. In her own court filings,

783
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: She's claimed to have epilepsy, post traumatic stress disorder, traumatic

784
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: brain injury, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, anorexia, ner ROSA,

785
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: and autism spectrum disorder. She really wants the public to

786
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: know about her alleged autism diagnosis, because in December twenty

787
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: twenty four, right as the criminal investigation began closing in,

788
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: Laura published this medium blog. We've had some segments read

789
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: by a voice.

790
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 16: Actor over the years. I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, ADHD,

791
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 16: and PTSD. Each one explained a piece of the puzzle,

792
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 16: but never the whole picture. Then, after my life fell

793
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 16: apart in ways I could never have imagined, I found

794
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 16: out the truth. I have high functioning autism.

795
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: The blog is titled I was just diagnosed with autism,

796
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: and it explains everything. The vast majority of the blog

797
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: isn't about autism at all. Instead, Laura tells the story

798
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: of how she's been unfairly treated by Clayton, by the courts,

799
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: and by the quote unquote JFC coult.

800
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 16: I'm not here to ask for your approval, and I

801
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 16: don't need your sympathy. But if there's one thing I

802
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 16: hope you take away from this, it's that you never

803
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 16: knew me. My reactions freezing, withdrawing, hesitating, weren't signs of

804
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 16: deception or manipulation. They were shaped by a developmental disorder

805
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 16: I didn't even know I had.

806
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: The online community had a lot of feelings about this

807
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 1: blog post. Here's a few of the Reddit and YouTube

808
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: comments read by voice actors.

809
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 8: I have a thirty four year old autistic son. I

810
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 8: resent the hell out of her using autism to excuse

811
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 8: her actions.

812
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 4: As a board certified psychiatrist, know.

813
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 7: As a special education teacher who works with many kids

814
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 7: on the autism spectrum, this is insulting. If she has autism,

815
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 7: it explains none of her behavior.

816
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: I have twelve year old autistic twins. One thing about

817
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: them is they don't like to lie or break rules.

818
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 17: She literally can't stop herself from offending every group of

819
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 17: people possible cancer, miscarriage, domestic violence, sexual assault, racism, cybraably, etc.

820
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 17: Now autism.

821
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 7: What will she pick next?

822
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 16: My husband got diagnosed a few months ago, and my

823
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 16: five year old son got diagnosed last year. Neither of

824
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 16: them would pull the diabolical crap that she did. This

825
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 16: is utterly offensive.

826
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: Like we said at the start of this episode, we

827
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: wanted to end this season by hearing from Laura directly.

828
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: I would like to ask her more about how her

829
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 1: alleged autism diagnosis explains everything. But Laura, much like her story,

830
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: seems to be a moving target. When Laura's been questioned

831
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: in the past, she turns to a familiar tactic, the

832
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: angry email. Most people you've heard from in this story

833
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: have received one, usually more than one, and they all

834
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: described the same feeling, a suffocating, all consuming anxiety, every

835
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: time they saw one in the inbox.

836
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 4: It's hard to explain to somebody how the hairs on

837
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 4: your neck immediately go up when you see you get

838
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 4: an email from Laura Owens.

839
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: She always tagged her emails with th read receipts.

840
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 13: Laura had a propensity to use email tracking, and she

841
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 13: would comment about how many times we opened her emails.

842
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: Oh, when I tell you five hundred emails. It was

843
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 3: just every freaking day.

844
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 4: You have to understand every email you'd get from Laura

845
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 4: would mess up your day. It was a threat. It

846
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 4: was like, at some point, you just don't want to

847
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:38,720
Speaker 4: open these emails.

848
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 1: Laura's emails are so notorious that her usual sign off

849
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: all the Best, has become an inside joke in the

850
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: online community. There's even a website dedicated to exposing Laura's

851
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: alleged crimes. It's called all the Best Research. The content

852
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: creators told me about how personal and vitriolic her emails

853
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: can be. I sympathized, but I didn't fully understand it.

854
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 1: That was until Laura started emailing me. When our production

855
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: company first began developing this series, we actually had a

856
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: meeting with Laura. Our CEO Nancy Glass and executive producer

857
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: Ben Fetterman talked to her for forty three minutes on

858
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: a zoom call. They discussed her participation in a potential

859
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: podcast in documentary that was nine months before the first

860
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 1: episode of this podcast came out. In an email ahead

861
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: of that meeting, Laura provided a timeline of her version

862
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: of events. For background, all the emails you're about to

863
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: hear are being read by a voice actor. Let me

864
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: pull out some of the most illuminating points from Laura's

865
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: initial timeline.

866
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 16: I was intimate with Eckerd. I didn't want to have

867
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 16: sex with him, but he admits in his deposition on

868
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 16: February second, twenty twenty four, that he did. I alleged

869
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 16: non consensual sex immediately afterwards to my family and friends,

870
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 16: and in an email to content creators Dave Neil and

871
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 16: Steve Carbone, who were harassing me on October twenty third,

872
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 16: twenty twenty three. I also accused him of it in

873
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 16: my deposition on March first, twenty twenty four. My claim

874
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 16: has been ignored by MCAO.

875
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: MCAO stands for the Maricopa County Attorney's Office. They're the

876
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: ones who brought the criminal charges.

877
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 16: I strongly believe that if Eckerd were a janitor and

878
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 16: I were a maid, this case would have ended quietly

879
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 16: the moment I filed to dismiss it. The only reason

880
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 16: it didn't is because he's quote famous and his fans

881
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 16: demanded a spectacle.

882
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: In her initial email, Laura told our production company that

883
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: the investigation into her is a horrible use of taxpayer dollars.

884
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 16: On April eighth, twenty twenty five, my sister Sarah Owens Navare,

885
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 16: who lives in New York, received a call from her doorman,

886
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 16: who said that four MCAO detectives were at the front

887
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 16: desk and needed to speak with her. She was in

888
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 16: Mexico at the time and spoke on the phone to

889
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 16: a detective named It seems like a horrible use of

890
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 16: taxpayer dollars for MCAO to send this many detectives across

891
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 16: the country to talk to my sister when they didn't

892
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 16: even have a subpoena to speak with her. They didn't

893
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 16: even leave business cards with a doorman. Detectives have since

894
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 16: tried to call her four times, but she has not responded.

895
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: Near the end of the email, after she talks about

896
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: being indicted on seven felonies, she writes.

897
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 16: I am absolutely terrified of the potential jail time I

898
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 16: could receive, even though I have never been charged with

899
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 16: anything in my life.

900
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: The next day, Laura met on Zoom with our production

901
00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: company Last Podcasts. Apparently it was a positive interaction. After that,

902
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: the ball was in Laura's court, but she stopped responding

903
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: about her participation. About a month later, we asked to

904
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: talk with her mother, Jan Black. We got a reply

905
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: back stating that because Jan was listed as a witness

906
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: in the criminal proceedings, she couldn't speak either. A few

907
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: months later, I emailed Laura's then criminal attorney, Joshua Coles Rudd,

908
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: requesting a statement from him or Laura.

909
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 18: This was his reply, Dear miss Young, thank you for

910
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 18: reaching out. As much as we appreciate your fair and

911
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 18: balanced approach, our professional rules require that we decline your

912
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 18: interview request. Lawyers are forbidden for making extra judicial statements

913
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 18: about an ongoing case and the requested format. Miss Owens

914
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 18: will also not be making any statements at this time.

915
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 18: Best regards, Joshua Callsrudd.

916
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: We reached out to Laura again before the first episode aired.

917
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: This is what I sent her on February eleventh, twenty

918
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: twenty six. Hi, Laura, I'm reaching out to follow up

919
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: on the podcast project we are producing in collaboration with iHeart,

920
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: which you previously discussed with Nancy Glass and Ben Fetterman

921
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: back in May twenty twenty five. At the time, your

922
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: former attorney, Josh Colesrudd, indicated that you wouldn't be making

923
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: a comment given the change in your legal representation. I

924
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: wanted to personally extend the invitation again to see if

925
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: your stance has changed and if you'd be interested in

926
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: sharing your perspective with us. We'd like to ask you

927
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: a few questions and give you the opportunity to speak

928
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,879
Speaker 1: on your own behalf. If you would like to participate,

929
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 1: we need a decision by Friday, February thirteenth, at five

930
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time. If you're interested, we could schedule an

931
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: interview with the signed release on any of the following days,

932
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: Monday February sixteenth, Tuesday February seventeenth, or Wednesday, February eighteenth.

933
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: We completely understand if ongoing litigation prevents you from speaking

934
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: at this time. While we haven't reached out to your

935
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: parents or sister out of respect for their roles as

936
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: witnesses in the upcoming trial, we would welcome the opportunity

937
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 1: to speak with them if they are willing. Please feel

938
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: free to share my contact information with them or any

939
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: friends colleagues or representatives who might be open to an interview.

940
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: We want to ensure that we include as many relevant

941
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: voices as possible. Please let me know how you'd like

942
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: to proceed.

943
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 8: Thank you.

944
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: This was Laura's reply to.

945
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 16: Me Hi Stephanie. I hope this email finds you well.

946
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 16: It is very upsetting to receive a forty eight hour

947
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 16: deadline to respond to an interview request for a project

948
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 16: that has been in development for months, particularly when I

949
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 16: appear to be this central figure. You have known since

950
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 16: December that I am no longer represented by Josh, yet

951
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 16: only now in February are you reaching out directly and

952
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 16: requesting my participation on such short notice that does not

953
00:56:54,800 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 16: constitute a meaningful or equitable opportunity to contribute. Timing further

954
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 16: reinforces the appearance that one perspective has already been developed

955
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 16: over an extended period, while the other is being compressed

956
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 16: into a last minute window in an apparent attempt to

957
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 16: check the box that I was contacted, cover your back legally,

958
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 16: and push forward with a narrative that is completely out

959
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 16: of context with the facts.

960
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: As a reminder, Laura met with our production company about

961
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: nine months prior to discuss her potential participation in this series.

962
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: Her email went on to allege her mother reached out

963
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: to me, but that I had not replied. I have

964
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: no record of communication from her mother in my company

965
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 1: or personal inbox. She also said that a dear friend

966
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: of hers replied to my request for comment twice, but

967
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: I have no record of that either. Laura ended her

968
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: email by letting us know there would soon be new information.

969
00:57:58,560 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm still waiting on that.

970
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,479
Speaker 16: There is substantial information that will soon become public which

971
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 16: will materially affect how this situation is understood. Other documentary

972
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 16: and podcast producers have put their projects on hold while

973
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 16: the story plays out. If you choose to go forward

974
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 16: with yours, please be advised that I will aggressively pursue

975
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 16: appropriate legal remedies with respect to any portrayal that is

976
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 16: inaccurate or unfair. Warmest regards, Laura Owens.

977
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: After this email, we expected to start seeing one every week,

978
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: but it was few and far between. That was until

979
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 1: episode seven, when we played this teaser at the very end.

980
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 9: My name is Mike Peruccini. I dated Laura from March

981
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen through summer of twenty seventeen.

982
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: This is when we found out Laura herself was tuning

983
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: in because after that episode, Laura sent an email subject

984
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: line formal notice regarding Love Trapped content scheduled to air

985
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 1: four nine twenty six.

986
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 16: Hello, I am writing to raise concerns about the accuracy

987
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 16: and fairness of the narrative being presented in Love Trapped,

988
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 16: including prior episodes, recent promotional materials, and information I have

989
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 16: obtained regarding upcoming segments involving Michael Maruccini.

990
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: It seems like Laura heard Mike's voice in the teaser

991
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: and she was upset about it. This email is about

992
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: five pages long. According to her, Mike Marraccini is misrepresenting

993
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: himself as a victim. Laura says he's lying. At the

994
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: time she sent this email, Mike's episode hadn't aired yet,

995
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: all she heard was the teaser, and she signs off

996
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: by saying.

997
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 16: You are now on notice of the nature of these

998
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 16: statements any decision to include or rely on them as

999
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 16: factual within your production and Carrie's corresponding legal risk. I

1000
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 16: trust this information will be taken into account before any

1001
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 16: further content is aired.

1002
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: We received another email the following week.

1003
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 16: To whom it may concern I am writing to place

1004
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 16: you on formal notice that episode eight of Love Trapped

1005
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 16: contains numerous false, defamatory, and materially misleading statements about me,

1006
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 16: Laura Owens, as well as my parents, Ron Owens and

1007
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 16: jan Black.

1008
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: This email included five PDF attachments with a total of

1009
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: twenty one pages. They were broken down into categories Iceland, Dubai,

1010
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: family relationships, post relationship conduct, and my favorite category other notes.

1011
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: Let me summarize these attachments. Iceland. Laura said it was

1012
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: a personal trip, not a work trip. According to her,

1013
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: she and Mike stayed in the same way room that

1014
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: seemed particularly important to her. She again referenced Napkin Lady's

1015
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: account of the events on the flight, calling it sworn

1016
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: third party evidence.

1017
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 2: Dubai.

1018
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: I'll read this quote directly. The Dubai segment of the

1019
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: show constructs the narrative in which mister Marraccini is portrayed

1020
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: as a reluctant participant pressured into international travel. That framing

1021
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: is not supported by the contemporaneous record Family Relationships. She

1022
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: contradicts Mike's account that her parents pressured him into staying

1023
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: in the relationship. She claims the portrayal of her parents'

1024
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: involvement is false and unsubstantiated. Post relationship conduct, Laura claims

1025
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: after their relationship ended, Mike was the one initiating contact

1026
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: with her even following her, not the other way around.

1027
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: Other notes. This is where Laura goes into detail about

1028
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: quite a few grievances, big and small, but most were

1029
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: about the way her relationship with Mike was portrayed. It

1030
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: seemed like her biggest issue is what she calls the

1031
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: trap narrative. She writes that because no baby was born quote,

1032
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: a pregnancy that produces no child creates nothing that keeps

1033
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: a man anywhere he does not want to be. Again.

1034
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: These are all attachments full of selected excerpts from documents

1035
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: and recordings.

1036
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 16: The attached materials document specific, concrete instances in which the

1037
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 16: episode's claims are directly contradicted by sworn deposition, testimony, contemporaneous

1038
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 16: text message records, medical records, court filings, and third party declarations.

1039
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 1: Then, in advance of the last episode, I reached out

1040
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: one final time for a written statement from Laura. We

1041
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: asked her to keep her statement to one thousand words

1042
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: so we could reasonably read it on this episode. At

1043
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: the last minute, she sent this reply, Stephanie, I have

1044
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: been offered one thousand words at the end of more

1045
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: than fifteen hours of audio constructed to destroy my reputation

1046
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: and that of my family. No response I could give

1047
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: in that space would begin to address the damage that

1048
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: this production has done. She went on to again refute

1049
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: Mike Marriuccini's claims in this series. She challenged our use

1050
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: of her bankruptcy hearings in episode eleven. Those recordings are

1051
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: available in full on YouTube. I wish I could say

1052
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: there were more meaningful takeaways from Laura's final email, but

1053
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: it's just more of the same personal digs, legal threats,

1054
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: and much like in the bodycam footage, no accountability for

1055
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: anything whatsoever. Laura remains adamant in her communications that we've

1056
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: got the story all wrong. As we wrapped up production,

1057
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: I reached out to Greg Gillespie one more time to

1058
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: see if he wanted to make a comment. Greg is

1059
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: the victim Laura met before Clayton. He sent me a

1060
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:05,919
Speaker 1: short statement that I'm able to share with you, Stephanie.

1061
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: What we have gone through as a result of Laura's

1062
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: alleged fraudulent actions and alleged criminal behavior has been nothing

1063
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: short of an experience from hell. My story is vastly

1064
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: different from the one being shared publicly. We will not

1065
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: be satisfied until Laura Owens is in prison and restricted

1066
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: from bringing further chaos into our lives. Bonus for exposing

1067
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: those who assisted her alleged fraud along the way. Greg

1068
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: has his own story to tell, but he's not ready

1069
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: to do that yet. All three of these men are

1070
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: looking forward to a day where they don't have to

1071
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: think about Laura Owens anymore. As for Clayton, you don't

1072
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: need to worry about him. He says he's doing better

1073
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: than ever and he's got an entire community around him.

1074
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 3: I never would have thought that this journey would lead

1075
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 3: us to this point where there are people fighting around

1076
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 3: the clock for me and the other victims.

1077
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 2: But I think these people that are.

1078
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: Fighting for me, Mike and Greg are really fighting for

1079
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 3: themselves as well. They were brought into this all because

1080
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 3: of their own trauma that likely Laura triggered when she

1081
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 3: claimed that she went through something that they've actually went through.

1082
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 3: And I don't think people rally around a cause if

1083
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 3: they don't have a strong emotional poll to it, and

1084
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 3: typically the emotional poll is they've experienced something similar.

1085
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 2: I believe that this.

1086
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 3: Support system has been created from trauma triggering that Laura

1087
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 3: has done. She's triggered more than just me and another victims.

1088
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,919
Speaker 3: She's triggered a community. I keep saying this, but I'll

1089
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 3: say it again. It's not even about me at this point.

1090
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 3: It's about this community healing. So for me to be

1091
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 3: a small part or that has been awesome.

1092
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: Like we said at the beginning of the episode, there

1093
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: still isn't an answer about Laura's plea deal. We don't

1094
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: know yet if she's going to trial or if she'll

1095
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: admit her guilt. We might not have an answer until

1096
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: her pre trial hearing, which is currently scheduled for May twentieth,

1097
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. That being said, we'll be back to

1098
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: bring you important updates. Season one of Love Trapped will

1099
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: continue when there's news to share in the criminal case

1100
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 1: against Laura Owens, and if Laura goes to trial, I'll

1101
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: be there before we end the episode. I want to

1102
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: leave you with one final thought. I know it's maddening

1103
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: to watch someone be confronted with the same facts over

1104
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: and over again and still refuse to accept them. At

1105
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: a certain point, you have to let go of the

1106
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: idea that there's going to be a moment of clarity,

1107
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: a confession, an explanation that makes this all make sense

1108
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: for Clayton and the other men in the story. That

1109
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 1: moment may never come.

1110
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 3: My truth is still my truth, and it sucks and

1111
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 3: I'm ready for it to be over.

1112
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: Laura's listened to the same twelve episodes you have. She's

1113
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: read the reporting, she's seen the evidence, she lived it,

1114
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 1: and she's come to her own conclusion. You've heard the

1115
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: same material. Now you have to come to yours. At

1116
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: the end of the day, there's one thing that isn't

1117
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 1: a matter of opinion. Laura Owens is facing fourteen felony indictments.

1118
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 1: Clayton eckered is not.

1119
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 4: Track.

1120
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to

1121
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:30,520
Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,

1122
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us

1123
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show.

1124
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to

1125
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at

1126
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: love Trapped pod at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped

1127
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. Love Trapped is a production

1128
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in

1129
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by

1130
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Fetterman, Written, produced and

1131
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: hosted by me Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique

1132
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: la Boord. Producer on this episode is Sidney Glado. Additional

1133
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: production support from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri.

1134
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: For iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio

1135
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: editing and mastering by Anna McLain, Additional editing support by

1136
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: Tanner Robbins and Matt Delvecchio. Thank you to our voice

1137
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: actors Leslie Tolly, Trey Morgan, Leah Joblow, Tanner Robbins, Taka Zen,

1138
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 1: Caitlin Golden, Anna McLain, Sidney Gladoo, and Todd Gans. This

1139
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 1: podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and leb

1140
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: Abramoff at cry Baby Media. The Love Trapped theme is

1141
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by Mob Music.

1142
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: A special thanks to Kerrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck,

1143
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: Ali kas Enter and the entire iHeart podcast team and

1144
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1145
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:09,520
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.