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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio this week on.

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Speaker 2: The podcast, What a Fascinating Conversation. Joe McClain, managing partner

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Speaker 2: in MAI Capital, began his career as a professional and

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Speaker 2: college basketball player before effectively becoming the money whisperer to

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Speaker 2: pro athletes. He works with pretty much old major athletes

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Speaker 2: across every sport basketball, football, hockey, baseball, golf, NASCAR, you

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Speaker 2: name it. I thought this conversation was really fascinating. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the average person who's listening to this doesn't have one

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollar contract, but a lot of the ideas,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the rules, a lot of the ways

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Speaker 2: of thinking about money with college athletes and professional athletes

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Speaker 2: are surprisingly applicable to the average investor. I thought this

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Speaker 2: conversation was really fascinating. The idea of saving a substantial

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Speaker 2: percentage of your income in your first bucket, and once

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Speaker 2: that's covered, moving to a second bit of saving that

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Speaker 2: you're going to be able to live off in the future.

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Speaker 2: That that's your growth and investing bucket. Before the fun

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Speaker 2: entrepreneurial types of types of investment I thought this conversation

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Speaker 2: was fascinating, and I think you will also with no

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Speaker 2: further ado, my interview of Mai Capital's Joe McClain. I've

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Speaker 2: been looking forward to this for a while. I got

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Speaker 2: to start with your undergraduate years. Four years at Arizona

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Speaker 2: Division one ball. What was the original career plan.

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Speaker 3: To play professional basketball at the time I was eight

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Speaker 3: years old, Michael Jordan Larry Bird posters on the wall.

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Speaker 3: I remember when the ball was put in my hand,

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Speaker 3: That's all I wanted to do. I was super blessed.

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Speaker 3: Grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and then my dad, Ti

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Speaker 3: Boon Pickens in eighty four eighty five. He worked for

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Speaker 3: Gulf Oil and we either had to move to Houston

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Speaker 3: or to San Francisco Bay Area, and so we chose

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Speaker 3: the Bay Area and it became Chevron, and I met

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Speaker 3: a point guard named Jason Kidd who was my high

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Speaker 3: school AAU point guard, and so I was goind of

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Speaker 3: blessed to be put in that position. The whole world

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Speaker 3: would come watch him play, and I got seen by

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Speaker 3: all the right people. And my mom was the one

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Speaker 3: who decided which really what college I was going to

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Speaker 3: go to, because during the recruiting visit loude Olsen and

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Speaker 3: Bobby Elson, his wife showed up and she really connected

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Speaker 3: with his wife, and she said, that's who you're going

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Speaker 3: to go play for. I want you to be in

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Speaker 3: that environment.

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Speaker 2: So we'll get to loot in a minute. Did you

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Speaker 2: have height in high school? Like when did you shoot up?

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Speaker 3: I did. I was always six three sixty four and

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Speaker 3: then grew another two inches in college. Was a but

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Speaker 3: a full disclosure. I peaked around nineteen because everybody I

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Speaker 3: remember I'm fast forwarding, but I was in an NBA

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Speaker 3: pre draft camp and I was six foot six. I

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Speaker 3: think it was roun Our test was right right around

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Speaker 3: the same as height as me. And then we were

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Speaker 3: standing in our underwear and he extended his arms and

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Speaker 3: I had I was in proportion and he was not

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Speaker 3: in proportion. I think they get us some of those.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna make it.

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Speaker 2: So Ludelson Hall of Fame coach, right multiple trips to

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Speaker 2: the Final Four. You played all four years under him,

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Speaker 2: averaging ten points a game. Small forward. What was your position?

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Speaker 3: Shooting guard and guarded guarded the small forward in big

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Speaker 3: forward positions it's I had to learn very quickly how

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Speaker 3: to how to hold onto a guard's jersey because everybody

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Speaker 3: was getting much quicker, much faster than me.

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Speaker 2: And so you graduate college, you start playing pro in Europe.

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Speaker 2: Did you tell where'd you play? What CONTRIERI?

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Speaker 3: So you would basically, I would try out for an

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Speaker 3: NBA team and then get cut, and then you had

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Speaker 3: two decisions to make. One go to the minor leagues,

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Speaker 3: which is now the NBA G League. It was the

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Speaker 3: CBA at the time. So you go to Bismarck, North Dakota.

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Speaker 3: I lived there for a year, living in Bismarck Hotel

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Speaker 3: and traveling by bus, and then decided to go to

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Speaker 3: Europe for the years after that. So I played in

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Speaker 3: eleven countries because there's only two Americans per team, no

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Speaker 3: binding contracts. You lose a couple of games, they'll rip

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Speaker 3: up your contract and send you home, really and so

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Speaker 3: it's a great way to see the world.

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Speaker 2: What countries did you did you play it?

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Speaker 3: I played in played in Spain, Portugal, China, Australia, Cyprus.

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Speaker 3: I moved to Ireland for a year to try to

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Speaker 3: get dual citizenship because then I wouldn't be counted as

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Speaker 3: one of those Americans. So it's the equivalent of probably

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Speaker 3: Division three basketball. I was sponsored by a pub. I

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Speaker 3: lived in a town called Balina, which was eight thousand people,

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Speaker 3: eighty four pubs. We were sponsored by Team long Necks.

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Speaker 3: I made three hundred dollars a week and it was

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Speaker 3: I have family, family for life there. It was a

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Speaker 3: great way.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like that sounds like a blast. So what

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Speaker 2: was the moment when you kind of realized, Hey, maybe

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Speaker 2: a pro career isn't my future. What was that come

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Speaker 2: to Jesus moment?

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Speaker 3: They were both on the court and off the court.

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Speaker 3: The closest, I will say the closest I ever got

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Speaker 3: to the NBA was when they went on strike and

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Speaker 3: the Sacramento Kings had the seventh pick in the draft,

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Speaker 3: and I lived in the Bay Area, and I knew

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Speaker 3: they didn't have any NBA players to work out their

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Speaker 3: draft picks, and so I went and called this the

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Speaker 3: scout and said, Hey, I'll bring my own lunch. You

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Speaker 3: don't have to pay me. I'll just guard the guys.

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Speaker 2: That you justly red shirt. And the whole gotcha.

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Speaker 3: And I couldn't believe it, but he said, if you

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Speaker 3: can be here next Tuesday, show up And so Tuesday

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Speaker 3: turned into twenty two straight days of workouts. I was

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Speaker 3: just literally working their draft pick out. They ended up

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Speaker 3: taking Jason Williams, but I got to listen to everything

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Speaker 3: they were looking for and the process, and long story short,

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Speaker 3: the twenty third day, nobody else was there but the coaches,

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Speaker 3: and they said, we're working you out. Today's your day,

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Speaker 3: no cayah. And made it all the way through pre draft,

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Speaker 3: all the way through the final cut. I was getting

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Speaker 3: on the bus to go to the very first game,

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Speaker 3: opening day, and I watched Oliver Miller walk past me

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Speaker 3: in the locker room and I was like, well, Oliver

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Speaker 3: Miller's not on our team. And then I realized, no, he's

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Speaker 3: coming to take my spot. And so Rick Alloman looked

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Speaker 3: at me and his head went down, and I don't

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Speaker 3: even remember what he said. I just knew that was

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Speaker 3: that it was over right right. That was as close

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Speaker 3: as I was going to get. Was walking to the bus,

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Speaker 3: and now I had to figure out what to do next.

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Speaker 2: So how do you get from, you know, working out

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Speaker 2: with the NBA team to pivoting into finance? What was

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Speaker 2: the what was the factor that tipped you that one.

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Speaker 3: I went in. I had no idea what to do.

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Speaker 3: All my buddies at the time. This is nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 3: so everyone that I knew in the Bay Area was

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Speaker 3: working for a dot com company. I mean it was

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Speaker 3: everything was dot com at the time. So I did

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Speaker 3: all my interviews and I would show up in a suit.

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Speaker 3: I would go to Oracle and I'd go to petstock Com,

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Speaker 3: I'd go to I mean literally, I didn't think I

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Speaker 3: did fifty plus interviews.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And I would show up in a suit and everyone

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Speaker 3: else was in flip flops and T shirts. And It's like,

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Speaker 3: this doesn't feel right. I need structure. And so I

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Speaker 3: started playing basketball for this club called the Olympic Club,

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Speaker 3: and I met lawyers and accountants and financial service people,

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Speaker 3: and so they put me in the direction to interview.

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Speaker 3: I interviewed every financial service company, a lot of the

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Speaker 3: big ones, the Goldman's of the world. Said go get

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Speaker 3: experience and come back. And then I met an old

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Speaker 3: former athlete who had success at Franklin Templeton, and he said,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to give you a shot. I didn't even

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Speaker 3: know what I had an experience investing in mutual funds

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Speaker 3: with the money I made in Europe, but didn't really

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Speaker 3: know what it was, and so I just said yes

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Speaker 3: because he looked like a coach.

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Speaker 2: To me.

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Speaker 3: That was it. That was the only reason I got

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Speaker 3: into financial service.

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Speaker 2: And how'd you do it? Franklin Templeton. They're a great

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Speaker 2: the trillion dollars great shop. Jenny Johnson is the CEO.

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Speaker 3: Honestly the best company I've ever worked for. Wow. And

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Speaker 3: for transitioning, the transition for an athlete to do anything

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Speaker 3: else is a very very difficult thing because it's the

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Speaker 3: thing that you have as an athlete is you have structure,

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Speaker 3: You have a schedule, you have a sense of accountability,

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Speaker 3: you have goals, you have a connection with a team.

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Speaker 3: You have all of that, and the day you stopped playing,

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Speaker 3: you're on an island. There is no schedule, there is

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Speaker 3: no level of accountability. And so what they gave me

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Speaker 3: was and this was I think you wrote it in

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Speaker 3: your first book. The first thing that this Jim Escabido

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Speaker 3: told me he was my manager at Franklin Templeton, and

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Speaker 3: he said, you don't know nothing about nothing, and he goes,

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Speaker 3: the sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll be curious

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Speaker 3: to start having this level of intellectual curiosity. And I

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Speaker 3: hold on to that every day. It's one of the

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Speaker 3: great great gifts he gave me, honestly, and they what

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Speaker 3: I got to do that Franklin Templeton was spend six

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Speaker 3: years in a car. I think I drove over four

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand miles as a wholesaler, all over the state

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Speaker 3: of Pennsylvania, all over the state of Arizona and northern

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Speaker 3: California where my regions and do hundreds of rubber chicken

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Speaker 3: dinners communicating the advisor. But I was working with a

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Speaker 3: financial advisor, and I got to just meet hundreds and

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Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds of people going through different situations with

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Speaker 3: their money, and I just I learned from all these

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Speaker 3: other people's that was It was an awesome experience with them.

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Speaker 2: So I want to roll back a moment. You described

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Speaker 2: the structure of being an athlete, and you gave me

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Speaker 2: six bullet points. They sound like they would be useful

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Speaker 2: for anything. Run through those bullet points.

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Speaker 3: Again, so they have a I don't know, I never

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Speaker 3: do it, which was a sense of accountability. There's there's

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Speaker 3: a schedule, there's a structure. Every day you wake up

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Speaker 3: knowing you know what the what the common goal is,

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Speaker 3: both as an individual and the role you play, and

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Speaker 3: there's a level of expectation as to what you need

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Speaker 3: to not just accomplish in one day, but one month,

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Speaker 3: six months down the line. I mean, you have the

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Speaker 3: NCAA tournament, you have all these things going on that

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Speaker 3: have longer term or goals, but you got to have

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Speaker 3: a to day discipline to execute on that. When you transition,

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Speaker 3: it's all gone. Well.

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Speaker 2: That structure, that setup sounds like it can be applied

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Speaker 2: to any endeavor in life, any organization, especially where you're

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Speaker 2: working with other people.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and the I see a little bit too

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Speaker 3: much where younger people jump to become an entrepreneur, and

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Speaker 3: I get the premise to want to be an owner

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Speaker 3: of everything you do quickly, but there is a level

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Speaker 3: of foundation and humility that can be accomplished by going

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Speaker 3: and seeking out another environment that provides those tools for you.

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Speaker 2: So you're a former college player, you're a former almost

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Speaker 2: pro player. What did you learn shooting hoops that the

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Speaker 2: CFP or CFA curriculum just simply can't teach.

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Speaker 3: Perseverance? This is something I'm trying to teach my kids,

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Speaker 3: I learned to fail and really enjoy it. Uh. And

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Speaker 3: for a while I was failing and not not really

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Speaker 3: reflecting on why I failed. People. I think that's the

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Speaker 3: people use that term a lot like failure is a

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Speaker 3: good thing, it's the best thing to have my life.

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Speaker 3: It's not the failing part. It's what you learn from

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Speaker 3: failing that that really is effective. Uh. And so in

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Speaker 3: the in the idea that you're willing to bet on

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Speaker 3: yourself at all costs, no matter what. If you think

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Speaker 3: about that as an athlete, in the mindset is I'm

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Speaker 3: willing to do whatever it takes. I'll go broke to

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Speaker 3: try to get this done. I have been broke. I'll

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Speaker 3: take as many risks as I possibly can take. I'll fail, fail, fail.

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Speaker 3: Those are not necessarily great attributes as an investor in

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Speaker 3: terms of the translating that mindset, so as an advisor

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Speaker 3: to appreciate where an athlete's coming from, to actually make

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Speaker 3: them aware of those types of traits that are great

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Speaker 3: qualities to have success in your in your craft, but

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Speaker 3: that may not be great qualities to have when you

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Speaker 3: become start thinking about financial advice and investing.

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Speaker 2: So so let's talk a little bit about athletes as clients.

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Speaker 2: You somewhat famously won't take on a new client if

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Speaker 2: they don't save at least sixty percent of what their

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Speaker 2: basketball earnings are. I'm curious, how did you come up

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Speaker 2: with that rule? How many potential clients turn you down?

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Speaker 2: How many clients do you have to turn down? Tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit about the genesis of that. It

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Speaker 2: seems to make sense. What's the average NBA career seven

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Speaker 2: years something like that.

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Speaker 3: A little bit less than that, probably, all right.

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Speaker 2: So it makes sense. Tell us where this rule came from.

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Speaker 3: It came from learning from my early mistakes as an advisor,

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Speaker 3: because I was willing to take anybody as a client.

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Speaker 3: That was the one thing. If I look back, I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have done that. But you're building a business. You

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Speaker 3: try to get revenue, and you know that happens, everybody

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Speaker 3: does it. How I came up with the measurement was

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Speaker 3: a young person saying I want to be a millionaire,

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Speaker 3: and they had an MBA contract. It was a three

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Speaker 3: year deal, and I said, all right, when do you

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Speaker 3: want to be a millionaire, Because here's the money you're

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Speaker 3: going to make, here's the taxes that you're going to pay.

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Speaker 3: You can actually make that choice as to one when

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Speaker 3: you want to log into your account and see a

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Speaker 3: million dollars. And so it's like, well, what do you mean.

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Speaker 3: He's like, well, if you save thirty percent, it's going

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Speaker 3: to be May first of you know, twenty twenty eight,

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Speaker 3: that's when you're going to have a million dollars. He goes, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to wait that long. I said, okay,

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Speaker 3: well what if you did forty percent? What if you

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Speaker 3: did sixty percent? And so what I realized is using

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Speaker 3: fear is not a great motivator for young people to

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Speaker 3: make decisions. Putting it around a milestone and or a

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Speaker 3: level of respect that they want to attain does And

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Speaker 3: so for me that became the parameter of then, okay,

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Speaker 3: if you want to become a client, we want to

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Speaker 3: have a relationship built on mutual respect. Then there's some

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Speaker 3: things that I'm going to require. And for me, it

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Speaker 3: was it was sixty cents of every net dollar that.

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Speaker 2: They after tax after agent after.

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Speaker 3: All, and then it's second deal, then it goes to

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Speaker 3: seventy percent. Third deal, it's eighty eighty five percent. And

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Speaker 3: then what we realize is we had clients talking in

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Speaker 3: the locker room about how much they're saving eventually bestly,

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Speaker 3: but how much they're saving. And then we would show

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Speaker 3: a scoreboard report of hey, so and so, you know

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Speaker 3: that he saved ninety two percent last year, you saved

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Speaker 3: seventy four And he's like, I don't believe it. And

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Speaker 3: then like they're texting back and forth and it begins

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Speaker 3: this dialogue, and it was awesome. It's it's so it was.

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Speaker 3: It sounds strenuous, but it's easier said than done. Now

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Speaker 3: when you see the level of the contracts and how

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Speaker 3: much money is going in and out of someone's life.

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Speaker 2: This is this is the exact opposite of the thirty

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Speaker 2: for thirty Sports Illustrated story. Eighty percent of NFL players

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Speaker 2: seventy percent of NBA players subsequently file bankruptcy, like crazy,

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Speaker 2: crazy numbers. How significant is that? In your mind? It

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Speaker 2: sounds like that's sort of a fearful threat. Doesn't really

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Speaker 2: get the job done.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't. And that's if you think about if I'm

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Speaker 3: talking to a now nineteen twenty year old and I say,

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Speaker 3: you know what if in three years from now, the

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Speaker 3: next number one draft pick walks into the locker room

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Speaker 3: and they walk directly to your locker, because everybody knows

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Speaker 3: that you know, it's we'll talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: the pros pro, but everybody knows that you under your

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Speaker 3: business on the court and you hand your business off

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Speaker 3: the court, and that you're someone that's respected in both

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Speaker 3: the business community and the community around the team that

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Speaker 3: you play in. Because there's gonna be pros in that

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Speaker 3: locker room and there's gonna be knuckleheads, And if you

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Speaker 3: don't know who the knucklehead is, I promise is probably you.

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Speaker 3: So so what we want to do is just teach

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Speaker 3: you the traits to become that person where someone wants

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Speaker 3: to walk director to your locker and ask questions and

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Speaker 3: so that that versus showing them statistics are going broke.

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Speaker 3: Most young people are gonna be like, I'm on one

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Speaker 3: in a million. That's not gonna be me. And the

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Speaker 3: reason why a lot of them do go broke still

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Speaker 3: is not many clients. Many athletes sorry, retire with ten

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Speaker 3: million dollars, fifteen million dollars, twenty million dollars, but they

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Speaker 3: have significant burn rates that are three four million dollars,

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Speaker 3: and so do the math. In five years, it's gone.

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Speaker 2: Divorces are expensive, child support is expensive. There are a

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Speaker 2: lot of friends with business plans that could be an expensive, right,

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Speaker 2: can't miss. By the way, everybody in that locker room

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Speaker 2: probably statistically is one in a million, right, Yeah, how

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Speaker 2: many people play in the NBA.

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Speaker 3: Less than four hundred?

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Speaker 2: All right, this is three hundred and fifty million people

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Speaker 2: almost by definition theirurdred and fifty people are one in

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Speaker 2: a million. It's it's kind of a kind of amazing.

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Speaker 2: The other thing you have your athletes do is to

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Speaker 2: try and save two years of cash. That's a quote

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Speaker 2: of yours quote. Athletes need two years of cash as

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Speaker 2: a buffer. How do you sell that idea to someone

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Speaker 2: who just signed an eight figure, you know, multi year deal.

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Speaker 3: Well, you get a chance to shit, especially early days,

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Speaker 3: Like the rules evolve over time once that once someone

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Speaker 3: has shown their level of professionalism with their money. So

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Speaker 3: early days, you know, there's that three bucket strategies I've

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Speaker 3: always put in place, which is that safety security bucket

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Speaker 3: that you're referencing. And then but that's the first time

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Speaker 3: someone's learning what an NBA or an NFL or an

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Speaker 3: MLB contract looks like, Like here's the DEO I just signed.

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Speaker 3: But then what's all these red numbers that go through it,

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Speaker 3: and who's faika and in all these all these terms,

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Speaker 3: and and uh, you know they see that. You know

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Speaker 3: what a ten million dollar contract really is, right, it

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Speaker 3: is much much much less. And then there's in the NBA,

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Speaker 3: there's another tax. It's like a jock tax that they

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Speaker 3: may or may not get back based on basketball related income,

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Speaker 3: which is in another ten percent that attached to these things.

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Speaker 2: What is the tax?

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Speaker 3: So there's a there's a tax that everybody in the NBA,

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Speaker 3: you know, gets, It's up to ten percent, and it's

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Speaker 3: related to it the agreement they have with the owners

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Speaker 3: that they have to get up to forty nine percent

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Speaker 3: of a number of a revew And if the owners

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Speaker 3: don't get that number, then they get to dip into

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Speaker 3: the cookie jar and take that basketball related income and

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Speaker 3: put it in their pocket. So most of the time

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Speaker 3: they get sixty five percent of that back. So but

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Speaker 3: that in our budget that we we budget as if

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Speaker 3: you're never going to get it back. So it is

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Speaker 3: a nice cherry on top at the end of the year.

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Speaker 3: But when you think about paying taxes in every single

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Speaker 3: state and sometimes city that they play in, and whether

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Speaker 3: you know, it could be playing for the New York Knicks,

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Speaker 3: the or the Golden State Warriors, interpaying a much higher

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Speaker 3: level of tax and so going through that whole experience

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Speaker 3: for the very first time exactly exactly. So it's a

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Speaker 3: you know, helping someone's pre experience what it's going to

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Speaker 3: look like and feel like to get paid for the

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Speaker 3: next three years. And because we've seen the movie over

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Speaker 3: and over, I'm just trying to show you the movie.

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Speaker 3: Your story is going to be different than everybody else's,

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Speaker 3: but there's going to be common ground that it's just

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Speaker 3: just for you to pre experience in and understand it

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Speaker 3: and then for you to put your own goals and

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Speaker 3: milestones on top of that.

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Speaker 2: Explain the three buckets. What are the three buckets you'd discussed.

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Speaker 3: So there's a safety and security bucket and that that

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Speaker 3: typically is your cash to support At least those are

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Speaker 3: twenty four months, because I think in the NFL you

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Speaker 3: may get paid just during the season, and Major League

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Speaker 3: Baseball maybe six months. The NBA could be over a

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Speaker 3: twelve month period. Everyone's cash flows different, so I want

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Speaker 3: two years of season seasonality to support your lifestyle. Inside

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Speaker 3: the safety and security bucket, If you buy a home,

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Speaker 3: it has to be necessary. It's a home where you

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Speaker 3: want to live, not necessarily where you play. Quite often

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Speaker 3: someone gets traded multiple times. They bought homes in multiple cities,

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Speaker 3: and now you're trying to sell a house in Milwaukee

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Speaker 3: when you're playing in Dallas, but you really live in Florida, sout.

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Speaker 3: Just put the house that you want to live in

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Speaker 3: long term in the safety and security bucket and typically

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Speaker 3: we'll buy that with no debt because I don't know

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Speaker 3: when the next contract's going to come once you filled

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Speaker 3: that bucket. The second bucket is the growth bucket. Okay,

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Speaker 3: this is where now you're starting to get to understand

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Speaker 3: how money works for you and in theory, all I

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Speaker 3: want young people to understand is, if you get twenty

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Speaker 3: four paychecks from the NBA over a twelve month period,

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Speaker 3: our goal by the end of your contract is to

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Speaker 3: find twenty four other ways for you to get compensated.

399
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Speaker 3: It could be in bonds, it could be in dividend,

400
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Speaker 3: it could be in real estate. Over time. However, inside

401
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Speaker 3: the growth bucket, for the first contract of their life,

402
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Speaker 3: eighty five percent of it has to be liquid. It

403
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Speaker 3: has to be liquid because quite often I saw when

404
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Speaker 3: I was researching young athletes were far too ill liquid.

405
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Speaker 3: They were investing in private deals. They didn't know the

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Speaker 3: value of it. They didn't it wasn't supporting their lifestyle,

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Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden they didn't have the

408
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Speaker 3: safety security bucket and they had to sell everything, and

409
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Speaker 3: most of it wasn't worth anything. So it's no genius

410
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Speaker 3: acid allocation strategy from Yale that I came up with.

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Speaker 3: It's just life and having someone prove to us over

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Speaker 3: time that they know how to save and they're responsible money,

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Speaker 3: so they can reserve the right for the third bucket,

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Speaker 3: which is the dream and entre an eial bucket.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so what goes into that?

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Speaker 3: So that could actually be setting up a business. It

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Speaker 3: could be even I throw venture capital and private equity

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Speaker 3: over there, early stage opportunities. It could be the second car,

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Speaker 3: because it's I don't I don't care what kind of

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Speaker 3: car you get. I don't care what kind of watch

421
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Speaker 3: you buy. You just get one, right if you want

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Speaker 3: to get you want to get another great car, sell

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Speaker 3: the other one and get get the next one. But

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Speaker 3: that extra bucket, it could be five to ten percent

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Speaker 3: of your life that sits over there. Now, when you

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Speaker 3: when you put a safety and security bucket, a growth bucket,

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Speaker 3: and a dream bucket in front of a young person,

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Speaker 3: which one do you think they want to fill first?

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Speaker 2: Well, the dream bucket, of course we all do. That's

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Speaker 2: the fun one.

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Speaker 3: So the discipline is you've got to fill the first

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Speaker 3: the first two. You know before you had to reserve

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Speaker 3: the right to be an entrepreneur or to fulfill that dream.

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00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: Because part of the what we talk about a lot

435
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: is live the dream that you're playing right now. Don't

436
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 3: try to go out and establish all these other things

437
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 3: and crafts, because it's focus on what you do well

438
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: and because this is your as you said, seven years

439
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 3: or less could be the greatest earning capacity in your

440
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 3: entire life right now.

441
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: Huh really really fascinating. Coming up, we continue our conversation

442
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: with Joe McLean discussing why he launched a boutique asset

443
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 2: manager for athletes. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to Masters

444
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening

445
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My extra special

446
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 2: guest today is Joe McLean. He is known as the

447
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: money whisperer to professional athletes. Let's talk a little bit

448
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: about how you got that title. You're a wholesaler for

449
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 2: mutual funds at Franklin Templeton. What led you to launch

450
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: a boutique asset management shop catering to start and professional athletes.

451
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: So I went on from wholesaling and then I ended up.

452
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 3: I went to two other companies, Lord Abbott and then

453
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 3: Alliance Bernstein and Alliance Burnsteat at the times launched a

454
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: advisor institute, which was there was these three hundred advisors

455
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 3: at Bernstein at the time that were bringing in one

456
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: hundred plus million in assets every year, and it was

457
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: a highly dedicated and focused team. And so I went

458
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 3: out and trained that to financial advisors as to how

459
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 3: to build a business and work with centers of influence.

460
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 3: And I met another kind of mentor in my life

461
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:42,239
Speaker 3: who was a former minister, and then got a had

462
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 3: a master's in neuro linguistic programming, and then understood how

463
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: to communicate effectively with people. And I spent two years

464
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 3: on the road doing that and then eventually became an

465
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 3: advisor at Bernstein a bunch of old teammates. I was

466
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 3: less than a year into my financial advisory career. Came

467
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 3: up to me when they were getting ready to retire

468
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: and they said, I, I've been watching you. I think

469
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 3: you're in that money thing. Can you look at my stuff?

470
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: That money? Shit, that's about that money.

471
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: Sit right, That's what they said. And these were thirty

472
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: two year olds, some had made over one hundred million

473
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 3: dollars in assets. I had not grown up with any wealth.

474
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 3: But now I'm fifteen years into the career and just

475
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 3: kind of learned from other families and obviously the companies

476
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 3: that have taught me things and being on the road,

477
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 3: and realized no one has ever sat you down and

478
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 3: walked through a level of planning that would be required

479
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: for this level of wealth to prepare you, at age

480
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 3: thirty two to live off of this money.

481
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: That's astonishing.

482
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: There was no class that we ever took in college, right,

483
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 3: and even if there was a class, we probably did

484
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: would not have paid that much attention to personal finance

485
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: and investing and so in sports and wealth was not

486
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: something anybody was really interested in. I heard it from

487
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: other firms who said, I don't want to get involved

488
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 3: with athletes, it's just babysitter. And so back then there

489
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: was no There was no sports and entertainment divisions at

490
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: wealth management firms. Nobody was involved. And so I went

491
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 3: to Burnsteaed and said, I this is it. This is

492
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: where I want to be. You know, I'm going to

493
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: focus my whole rest of my life on this. I'm

494
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: going to be a coach, but to do it in finance,

495
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: and it was just something that they were open to

496
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 3: but not interested in because it was way beyond investing.

497
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 3: It was personal finance and cash flow and budgeting and

498
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: creating a protected circle of because there's so many things

499
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 3: that could touch someone's money. Could be the car guy,

500
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 3: could be the suit person, could be the jeweler. It

501
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 3: could be the family that needed to be controlled and

502
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: put in put the scoreboard up financially as to what

503
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 3: required to have success.

504
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: That sounds a lot like a traditional family office.

505
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 3: I had no idea what a family office was at

506
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: that time, but that I was identifying this was the need.

507
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: So long story short, it couldn't be done at a

508
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: wealth traditional wealth management business. It had to be an

509
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: raa at time for me. And so that was the

510
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 3: move to start Intersect at the time, which was heavily

511
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 3: focused on personal finance and family office. And I was

512
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 3: still learning the game too, and the contracts weren't as

513
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 3: big as they are today. But I remember being in

514
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: the twenty eleven draft. I think I was competing against

515
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: two other financial advisors. Maybe nobody was really interested in

516
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 3: this industry.

517
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: That's unbelievable to me. So eleven people, you're managing one

518
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: point seven billion dollars for about fifty clients. How did

519
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: that grow? And then when did you start to hear

520
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 2: from people thinking, hey, this might be a good talk

521
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: in to a bigger shop.

522
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 3: So that happened all in less than seven years, and

523
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 3: it was in sports. I realized a couple of things. One,

524
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 3: I didn't want to have a client base where it

525
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 3: was only athletes. Had you had to pass the test

526
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 3: of a fifty year old business owner who was going

527
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: to ask more sophisticated questions, that was going to challenge

528
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: you to make sure that you create a process, a plan,

529
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: and a portfolio that was sophisticated enough to support his

530
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: or her needs. So this became this mutual admiration club

531
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 3: of entrepreneurs, business owners, and athletes. And I found that,

532
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 3: you know, baseball player wants to talk to an NBA

533
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: player and a golfer and so on. It was a

534
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 3: great connection to have community built in there, and that's

535
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 3: how all these other sports came up about it. I

536
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 3: was a classic case of high growth trying to keep

537
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: up with operations. So it's constantly taking my own capital

538
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 3: and reinvesting and trying to stay up with the support.

539
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: And that's when I had someone come up to me

540
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 3: and I was trying to find an investor just to

541
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: help me out because I was I couldn't support it myself.

542
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 3: And that's when I was introduced to Mai at the time,

543
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: who unbeknownst to me, really that was a very quietly

544
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 3: built family office for athletes dating back to Arnold Palmer

545
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: and Martin McCormick were the first owners and client of

546
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: the business.

547
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: Client that's pretty sid yeah, yeah.

548
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 3: And that was Mark. Mark McCormick was the for sure

549
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 3: the the OG and in the sports agency world, where

550
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: his his focus was to take an athlete to an

551
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 3: entrepreneur to an owner of everything they did right, and

552
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: that's when you know he got He famously got Arnold

553
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: Palmer out of a Wilson. Palmer did handshake deals on

554
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: just about everything he ever did and had a handshake

555
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: deal with Wilson that that Mark saw the value of

556
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 3: what he was doing for that company and was able

557
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: to renegotiate that most people don't like. Wilson was actually

558
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: a meat packing company way back when, and it was

559
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,239
Speaker 3: and a banker came in and saw that it was

560
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 3: not it was undervalue because they weren't utilizing the entire cow.

561
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: And they started taking the hides and making footballs and

562
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: basketballs from them and extracted extraordinary value out of that,

563
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: and it eventually became a sporting goods and equipment company.

564
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: So they were very savvy when they they did that

565
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: deal with Arnold Palmer, and McCormick came in and unlocked

566
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: all kinds of value for Palmer. And so when you

567
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: look at athletes now they talk about becoming an owner

568
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: of everything they do. This is something they did. This

569
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: is nineteen seventy three, seventy four.

570
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: I kind of remember Arnie Palmer designing golf courses and

571
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: putting his names and getting fairly well compensated for that.

572
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: Am I recalling that correctly?

573
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: He did that and a lot more like everything and

574
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 3: the drink right and that umbrella, that Leconic logo that

575
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 3: he has if you're in that golf world, you know

576
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: that's Arnold Palmer. And he was the one who famously

577
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: told every athlete, if you're going to put your signature

578
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: on something, make sure people can recognize who you are.

579
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: And I know Peyton Manning and others have taken on

580
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: that that banner, and so he was. He was a

581
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: trailblazer very early days. And his level of wealth was extraordinary.

582
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 3: That would rival the likes of Stephen Curry and Kevin

583
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: Durant as you see today.

584
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: And the other thing about golfers, they have a much

585
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: longer the success have a much longer career life and

586
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: then they start playing in the seniors for another.

587
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: If you can do it, yeah, it's but there's nothing

588
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: like golf is a completely different level of financial planning

589
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: because there is no guaranteed contracts. Right if you win

590
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 3: a tournament, yes you may get a year or two

591
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: of your tour card, but if you don't and you're

592
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: missing cuts, then there's no money. And it's it's one

593
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 3: of the most difficult sports to survive. The successful ones obviously,

594
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: as you said, could have thirty forty.

595
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: Fifty, but it's a winner take all.

596
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: It is it's very difficult.

597
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: So MII acquires Intersect. After the acquisition, you go from

598
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: a founder CEO to managing partner and running the multifamily

599
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: office inside this larger platform. You spend a long time

600
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: building up culture and trust. How do you maintain that

601
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: when you're tucked into a larger shop and a very

602
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: different brand.

603
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: The the good thing was, and it took a long

604
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: time for me to figure it out before I made

605
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: a decision, was the firm was very was a service

606
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: oriented business. It wasn't a business that was providing services,

607
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: and so that was that was very different for me

608
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: because I actually was not. I didn't come in with

609
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: any high level of business prowess. I was a service provider.

610
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 3: I still am. I think there's nothing beneath me in

611
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 3: terms of what's required to serve a client and the

612
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: people around them. And they had the same mindset because

613
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 3: it was actually at the time a loss leader for

614
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 3: the IMG business, and so IMG would charge their twenty

615
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: thirty percent and they would have MAI, which was McCormick

616
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: Advisors International was the acronym, and that was just a

617
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: service center to do your taxes, your bills and you know,

618
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: build your portfolios and so that they had the same

619
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: mindset that I had. And so but there was another level,

620
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 3: as you know, of acquisitions and really growing and so

621
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: you know, we had gone from twelve billion to eighty

622
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: plus billion in assets. So that's it is difficult to

623
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: maintain the culture, but it's a very independent, fiduciary minded

624
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 3: world that was aligned to me. I think the evolution

625
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 3: of where the advisors and the clients are going now

626
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: from here is this level of partnership, because that was

627
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: what I was experiencing. My boutique is not a client

628
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 3: advisor or advisor client relationship. It was a partnership because

629
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: it's young people don't want to be told what to do.

630
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: They want to be given information to make better decisions,

631
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: but don't tell me what to do. And so I

632
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: think I've learned a lot in that culture that that's

633
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 3: where now the term family office is everywhere. That's how

634
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: you got to build it going forward.

635
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: So I love the idea of the distinction between simply

636
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: managing money, which is this money thing your friend asked

637
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: you about, versus managing wealth and all the related services.

638
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: Is that effectively the evolution that you've gone through from

639
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 2: from intersect Tomai.

640
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: A little bit, I would say, I would say the

641
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: MAI and the So the industry is coming to quite

642
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: interesting to how we've serviced athletes. And it's not just

643
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: because there were athletes, it's just because they were young people.

644
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 3: You know, the industry is trying to turn towards how

645
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: to service the next generation of wealth and this transfer

646
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: of wealth that's happening from the baby boomers. And if

647
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: you look at the history of advice, the history of

648
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 3: advice really was built on the backs of the baby boomers.

649
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 3: So I always look at nineteen eighty one, had I

650
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: think it was six or seven hundred mutual funds to

651
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: choose from, and all of a sudden, it was this

652
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: hockey stick, it's just exploded. And what happened, well, it

653
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: was the baby boomers returning thirty five, which usually tends

654
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: to be the age where you finally have some money

655
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: to spend and invest. And then you look at this explosion,

656
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: and the value proposition to that marketplace was simply access,

657
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: access to the capital market. So that was I always

658
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: tell the young people, if you ever watch Pursuit of Happiness,

659
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: great movie, Will Smith cold calling. He was just giving

660
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: you access. And then it became about alpha and generating.

661
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: How do I my black box research is better than

662
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: this person? Right? And then it became about spending an

663
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: income strategies and retirement. That was the third one, all

664
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: satisfying to baby boomers. Now the value proposition has flipped.

665
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 3: It's access not to publics, but it's to privates, and

666
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: it's spending an income not in your retirement, but in

667
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: your entire life for your entire life in terms of

668
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 3: managing that lifestyle. So these are things that we've done

669
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: from the very beginning because there would never would have

670
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: been a dollar to invest if I didn't control the

671
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: cash flow.

672
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 2: Huh really really fascinating. You talk about you're dealing with

673
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: younger people, and especially with athletes. We'll get to college

674
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: athletes in a little bit. How do you get a

675
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: young person to understand that owner mentality, both from a

676
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: risk perspective, from a compounding perspective, especially in today that

677
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 2: they're always connected, there's so much stuff going on and

678
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: so much speculative distractions. How do you them to think

679
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: like an owner and not like a you know, a

680
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: simple player.

681
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: Day by day like day by day? Really, yeah, and

682
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a long game. There's no level of

683
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 3: like putting a Monte Carlo analysis in front of someone

684
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 3: and showing them, uh, you know, twenty thirty forty years

685
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 3: out from of what the compounding effect could be is

686
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: it looks looks nice, but it's just there's behaviors and

687
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 3: discipline that have to be created day by day, month

688
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: by month over time. But if you gamify it, it works.

689
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: And that's that's the that's the that's the aspect of

690
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: putting the scoreboard up of level of are you winning

691
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: or losing each month? And the one thing with with

692
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: if you look at contracts today in sports and how

693
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 3: big they are, as you know, with anything with great

694
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 3: abundance typically comes less disciplined. Right. You see a lot

695
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: of people with great talent, but they don't necessarily work

696
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 3: that hard. But if you work hard and you have talent,

697
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 3: it's tough to be. Yeah, it's almost almost difficult. It's

698
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: impossible to be. And so that's that became my investment philosophy.

699
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 3: When with even with young people or old people is

700
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 3: older when you think about the laws of physics versus

701
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: the laws of finance, Okay, and we think about this

702
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 3: abundance laws of physics say I'm trying to cross the creek.

703
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: There's a log that I'm going to walk on. If

704
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: I take my eye off that log, there's instant feedback.

705
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 3: I'm going to fall in the water. Right. If the

706
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: laws of finance say if there's if I have abundance

707
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: of money going out of my life and i'm and

708
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 3: if I take my eye off my money, nothing happens.

709
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: There's no immediate feedback. American Express doesn't call but call

710
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: and say, hey, if I'm paying my bills for a month,

711
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 3: slow down, Like you just spent fifty five thousand dollars

712
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: this month, slow down. No, they're giving you more benefits, right,

713
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: And so the laws of finance give you no immediate feedback.

714
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: And so the philosophy has to be creating a standard

715
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 3: of what you're going to focus on in It could

716
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 3: be a month from now, let's just win this month,

717
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: and then that's win the next six months, and all

718
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 3: of a sudden, now we're winning for years. But that's

719
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 3: until you become aware of that, most people don't have

720
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 3: success in it.

721
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff coming up. We continue our conversation with Joe McLean,

722
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: managing partner at MAI Capital discussing what it's like to

723
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: advise athletes and entertainers on their finances. I'm Barry Ridalts.

724
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: You're listening to Master's in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm

725
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: Barry Ridults. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

726
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: My extra special guest is Joe McLean. He is the

727
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: managing partner at MAI Capital, where he has helped build

728
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: not only the firm's family office group, but the Sports

729
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: and Entertainment division, serving hundreds of professional athletes and entertainers.

730
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: So that sounds like a very, very fascinating group of

731
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: people to work with. I want to start by thinking

732
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: about what's going on at the college level, name, image, likeness.

733
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: This has become a giant business. Suddenly you have seventeen

734
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 2: and eighteen year old phenomens with potentially seven figure contracts.

735
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 2: What's it like having a conversation with a suddenly wealthy

736
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: eighteen year old.

737
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 3: And by the way, it's in high school now too,

738
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: so there's people were getting sponsorships in high.

739
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 2: School, so it's a sixteen year old.

740
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting is I had I was blessed

741
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: with four years of coach Liutolson at the University Arizona

742
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: and had an extraordinary network of alumni and teammates that

743
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 3: I got to know or were also coached by him.

744
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 3: I see this. I see the benefit of staying for

745
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 3: four years for you know, not jumping around school to school.

746
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 3: And so at the same time, I'm trying to not

747
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: sound like I'm fifty two years old and say back

748
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 3: in the good old days, this is what we did,

749
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 3: because you know, we weren't getting contracts offered to us

750
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: for a million four I just looked at a There

751
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 3: are research services out there for each of these sports,

752
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 3: and I just looked at one for a player, and

753
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: they average five point six points a game this year,

754
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 3: but they're projected to have success. They're going to get

755
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 3: one point eight million dollars next year to go play

756
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 3: as a sophomore in college. Wow, right, And that's that's extraordinary.

757
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 3: And so how do you pass up going to another

758
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 3: school for those types of things? So it's really getting

759
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: them to sit down and think about some things that

760
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: are important besides money, their college experience. Who's the coach

761
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: that you're going to be coaching for. Does that match

762
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: to style that you that you think you could have

763
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: success in then outside the financial advice required that hey,

764
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 3: you're now a ten ninety nine contractor. There's no taxes

765
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: taken out of these deals, right, and so you can't

766
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: just spend one hundred percent of it. You owe money

767
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 3: to the government, and so that becomes that whole lesson

768
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 3: of gross versus net, and then this setting up some success.

769
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 3: The good news can be that they're learning these life

770
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: lessons before they become a pro. Right and because what

771
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 3: we also remind them is that every NBA, NFL scout

772
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: is watching how you're reacting to this money. Now, if

773
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 3: you get a million dollars and you go buy a Ferrari,

774
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: which happens, they're going to put that on their board

775
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: that this is someone that may not be responsible when

776
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: we give them ten million dollars. And so they're getting

777
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: into a window into the human being as to how

778
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 3: they may react once they turn pro. And so these

779
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 3: are all conversations we're just having much much earlier. But

780
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 3: I think it could be a good thing long term.

781
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 3: I know, as a college sports fan, e everybody's like,

782
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 3: I don't like these portals, and I agree with them.

783
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 3: But as a young person with opportunities, they're going to

784
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: be smarter, They're going to want to learn faster, and

785
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 3: there will be more successful outcomes than less.

786
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: Huh. That's really that's really fascinating. The obvious things that

787
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: are potential minefields, they seem to be getting good advice

788
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: and avoiding. And it sounds like a lot of the

789
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: college athletes that are getting big paydays are making most

790
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: of them are making better decisions than poor ones. Is

791
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: that I think?

792
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: So it's a And by the way, guys, I think

793
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: you know, ninety percent of these nils are all probably

794
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand dollars or less or like they're much

795
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 3: they're much smaller, and that's bout one hundreds a lot,

796
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 3: but there's much smaller deals. It's reminding if they don't

797
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: have a base around them of that professional locker room

798
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: that we talk about, reminding them first and foremost, the

799
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 3: number one priority is to be a great teammate, because

800
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: we've seen the scenarios where the quarterback makes two million dollars, uh,

801
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: and it's disrespectful in the locker room and now all

802
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 3: of a sudden, nobody's blocking for you. That will happen.

803
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 3: So you've got to be scored in the super Bowl. This

804
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: year exactly. So if you don't, if you don't think

805
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: through those types of things and be aware of it,

806
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: and even like you know, you maybe wanted to be

807
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 3: contributed to community and create, you know, create a donor

808
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: advice fund with some of this money and give it

809
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: away and bring bring awareness to what your brand is,

810
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 3: because your brand really is not you know, what your

811
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: social followers are. It's being a great teammate, being a

812
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 3: great human being responsible. You know, you can have all

813
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 3: these extraordinary experiences and say the NCAA tournament, but if

814
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 3: you're a knucklehead off the court or off the fields,

815
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: there's gonna be consequences to it earlier.

816
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: So so let's now move into the pros. But we're

817
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: not talking about fifty two year olds in basketball, your

818
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, early in your career.

819
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: I'm curious about a couple of things. The first thing

820
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: is you have a day like last week where the

821
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: market's melting down. A twenty five year old guy and

822
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: his first year of a second contract calls up and says, hey,

823
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: we okay, Like, how do you manage clients who are

824
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: perhaps a little freaked out by the newsflow?

825
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 3: So I think over over time. For me, the benefit

826
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: has been introducing them to other people besides myself want

827
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: for most and foremost, other professionals and the markets and

828
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: other asset classes that they can get on the phone

829
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 3: with and understand really what the facts of the case

830
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 3: are versus the noise around it. And typically every scoreboard

831
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 3: we have is projected out through their entire contract. So

832
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: what are the things that we can control versus the

833
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: things that we can't control? So as I always go

834
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 3: back to that, yes, the market's down, let's say it's

835
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 3: down ten percent. You know, what are the things we

836
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 3: can control right now? Well, we can control our spending,

837
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 3: in our decision making and our attitude, and so those

838
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 3: may be opportunities where let's look at our spending, maybe

839
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: we dial it back so that we may want to

840
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 3: invest more over time, and it's opportunistic. These are all

841
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: very rational things that as you know, most humans become

842
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 3: very irrational. And the more I've learned, the more I

843
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 3: can get someone to talk about their emotions, then they

844
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 3: moved to a more rational state. So it's just talking

845
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: out loud. Let's talk through this. A lot of these

846
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 3: a lot of these athletes over the last couple of years.

847
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 3: Really haven't been through a major, major market.

848
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 2: Fifteen years of bull market.

849
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: It was really bad. I mean I remember early days.

850
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: This happened and I had one player liquidated all their

851
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: five twenty nine plans because the market was down fifteen percent.

852
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: And that was obviously you know the mistakes that that,

853
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 3: you know the consequences of that. But if you don't

854
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: go through it, I was. I was a benefactor of

855
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: losing all of my hard earned money in Europe in

856
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 3: two thousand. So I was investing in mutual funds at

857
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 3: ten dollars that went to one hundred dollars in these

858
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 3: biotech funds, and then March of two thousand everything went

859
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: to zero. So it was a lesson. I learned early

860
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: not to be have concentrated I'll be all in and

861
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 3: one asset class. So most of the clients are fairly diversified.

862
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 2: So let's hold the twenty three to twenty four year

863
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 2: old aside and talk about a twenty five twenty six

864
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: year old with a max contract their second contract. You

865
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: don't think of a twenty six year old as a

866
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: potential family office client, but essentially at that level of income,

867
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: that level of wealth kind of makes sense. Is this

868
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: the right model for those athletes, for those professionals.

869
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. So if you think about what you're describing,

870
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 3: a twenty five twenty six year old on a max

871
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: contract is probably making over forty million dollars a year.

872
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 3: It's just talk through a couple of things that are happening.

873
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: It's a guaranteed contract if you're in basketball or baseball,

874
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 3: even hockey to that extent, it's not guaranteed for death,

875
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: right right, So there's only it is for injury up

876
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 3: to it is for injury, but not for death. So

877
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 3: then there's there's a life insurance planning. That's element where

878
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: both the team's trying to get the coverage on that

879
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 3: person and for their first thirty million, and then you're

880
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 3: trying to get coverage. And if you're a big if

881
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 3: you have big endorsements, there's other Coca Colas and all

882
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 3: these other gatorades are all trying to get coverage on

883
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 3: you as well to protect there. So it's there's a

884
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 3: level of sophistication that they've got to start thinking through

885
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: from a risk management standpoint. Again, back to now the

886
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 3: three it's the three buckets still remain for the rest

887
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: of their life, so you got to keep filling them.

888
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 3: But now it's this gets complicated, it's you do what's

889
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 3: the goal here with this money? Is it just to

890
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: save it and sit on it? Or now they're getting

891
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: access to really interesting opportunities they want they want to

892
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 3: maybe own a team someday.

893
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 2: So this is the third bucket, right.

894
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 3: And this is the entrepreneurial one where you've got to

895
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 3: keep filling the first two and always know what it

896
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: costs to be you? That's always January one. Do you

897
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 3: know what it costs to be you? And how do

898
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: we make it cost a little less to be you

899
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: if we can be smart with some of the savings

900
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 3: and all act areas. So what do we want it

901
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: to be cost to be you when this contract's over? Right,

902
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: it's again back to that burn rate of how much

903
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 3: you're going to spend in retirement because I'm assuming you're

904
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 3: never getting another deal, right, So is it two million

905
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 3: dollars a year? Is it a million and a half?

906
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 3: What is that number that we think you could live comfortably?

907
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 3: And obviously this is your thirty five years old. This

908
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: money has to last much, much, much much longer, and

909
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 3: so just going through that level of planning and giving

910
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: them information so they can make better choices. But that

911
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 3: is when this entrepreneur bracket really kicks in. They've established

912
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: a brand as a great player. Performance is the number

913
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: one factor of their success financially. However, now there's an

914
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 3: opportunity to really develop something that could be sustainable for

915
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 3: thirty forty years as an entrepreneur. And that's where we

916
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 3: start identifying what philosophy they want to have, and that's

917
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 3: that sector.

918
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 2: So you mentioned death or injury. I'm curious as to

919
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: your take on what are the most or the least

920
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: appreciated risks on a modern team roster. Is it we

921
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: mentioned injuries? Is it lifestyle creep? Is that that entourage

922
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: that could be a bad influence? Deal flows in the DMS?

923
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: Is a line I saw that cracked me up. What

924
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: do you think is just bad mojo that potentially derails

925
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: a client?

926
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 3: Well, a couple of things you mentioned risk an injury.

927
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 3: You cannot avoid this and so there's a there is

928
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 3: a way to protect yourself over time. So it's now

929
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 3: at this point, at this level of wealth, at the

930
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 3: size of these contracts, you have to have your own doctors.

931
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 3: You have to have your own trainers. You have to

932
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: get information that comes directly to you, not through the

933
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 3: team to you.

934
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: So we're talking nutritionists, trainers, physical therapists, sage therapists like

935
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: straight down the line.

936
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 3: And they will all have to report to the client,

937
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 3: not to the team. So the team has these has

938
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 3: these people and they're great people. However they work for

939
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 3: the team, right, And so we've had situations where clients

940
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 3: have gotten injections and it's killed carlage in their hip,

941
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: and it's erode it over time, and all of a sudden,

942
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: now they're in a situation where they may not get

943
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: the next deal. So it's at this max contract someone

944
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 3: so they're going to be spending somewhere between four hundred

945
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: thousand and a million dollars a year into their body.

946
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 2: Wow, that's unbelievable.

947
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 3: And it's but if you think about what the benefit

948
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 3: of that. People players are playing thirty five forty and look.

949
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 2: At Tom Brady. You had no business playing into his

950
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: forties and playing fairly well. That has to be the

951
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: result of all that, all that self.

952
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 3: Investment, no doubt. And that's so that's and so there's

953
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 3: a there's a track record there that others can turn

954
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,959
Speaker 3: to Lebron James also being one of them, that it's

955
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: they see the value in that investment and they also

956
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 3: see the risk of not investing in that right. So

957
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 3: it's I've had these discussions on the first contract when

958
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 3: I look at because I see the personal p and

959
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 3: L on everybody when we're paying all their bills, and

960
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: I could see, are we really still going to McDonald's

961
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 3: like you're you're you're a crushing fast food constantly.

962
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: You what a twenty three? Aren't you kind of a mortal?

963
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: How do you get someone who's been the biggest, fastest,

964
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: strongest guy everywhere he went to realize, hey, this is

965
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: a rusty big of bolts if you don't take care

966
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 2: of it. How do you get a twenty two year

967
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 2: old to understand you're not a mortal?

968
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 3: You show them that. If you're in the NBA and

969
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: you're a draft pick today and you get to your

970
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: fourth contract, assuming a five percent growth rate of of

971
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 3: of the salary cap, you will have grossed a billion

972
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 3: dollars in contract value.

973
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: Get out of here.

974
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 3: That's billion. So so what are what are the things

975
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 3: you and do now to just be around in your

976
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: fourth deal? Right. It obviously extends beyond just being a

977
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: three years deals or longer three between three and four

978
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 3: year deals. Yeah, so if you're twenty one, by the

979
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 3: time you're thirty one to thirty three, depending on your

980
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 3: cycle of your contracts, you could have grossed a billion dollars.

981
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 3: That's where Cooper Flags of the world are trending towards.

982
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: Jalen Rose, Jason Tatum, that's where they're trending.

983
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

984
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: I was courtsied for the Laker game against the next

985
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: last year and what is Lebron thirty eight? He was

986
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: last year? He is amazing. He is just a fortunate

987
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: force of nature. And that doesn't happen by dumb luck.

988
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,959
Speaker 2: That looks like it's a lot of work.

989
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 3: And my legs were tired in the fourth quarter when

990
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: I was twenty one years old.

991
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: Faster than everybody out there other than maybe one of

992
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: the point guards. And he's a mond. When he's in

993
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: the paints, you are not stepping in front. You're not

994
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: taking that charge. Wake up next Tuesday.

995
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 3: The old school guards, back in the day, they would

996
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 3: play their way into shape the first twenty games right

997
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 3: as they were. Lord knows what they did all summer

998
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 3: there's the athlete. Summers now are just as physical and

999
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 3: difficult as the seasons in terms of preparation.

1000
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: Huh, that's fascinating. There's a quote of yours. I really like.

1001
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: The number one trait of a great advisor is being

1002
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: willing to get fired. Give us an example of what

1003
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: leads someone to get fired when you're delivering the cold,

1004
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 2: hard truth.

1005
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 3: Let me give you one where I almost got fired first, okay, okay,

1006
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 3: And this was one of my most important clients of

1007
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 3: the history of my career, and I thought I was

1008
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 3: doing the right things, and I still today I think

1009
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 3: I was, but I was doing it the wrong way.

1010
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 3: So this was a situation where the client was just

1011
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 3: there was a bunch of knuckleheads surrounding them. They were

1012
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,919
Speaker 3: going to really affect that person's brand of the off

1013
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 3: the Quarridor field, and it was really starting to irritate me.

1014
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 3: And so I decided to take it in my own

1015
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 3: hands and address that personally with them, with with the

1016
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 3: friends and with the family members, and I kind of

1017
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 3: I got into everyone's face and I was ready to

1018
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 3: take them down because I and I look at doing

1019
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 3: trust planning for a client, I know who they love,

1020
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 3: and that's who that's who's in the trust literally and

1021
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 3: who we're going to take care of financially, and the

1022
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 3: ones that are outside the circle. And most of them

1023
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 3: were outside the circle, and they were really affecting this individual.

1024
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 3: So I was going to take try to take them out,

1025
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 3: but do it verbally. And so I addressed it, and

1026
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,720
Speaker 3: all of a sudden I got called to the table

1027
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 3: for a meeting with the client, and uh, and they

1028
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 3: they came at me and said, don't you ever just

1029
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 3: you know, come at my friends and this and that

1030
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 3: and and if you if this ever happens again, we're

1031
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 3: never going to work together again. And that for me,

1032
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: this is the first time we're having some conflict. And

1033
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 3: I was ready for it, and I was excited to

1034
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 3: have this conversation because that's let's get real about what's happening.

1035
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 3: And even when you don't know what's happening, but the

1036
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: but the person was shutting down more and more. They

1037
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: weren't ready for conflict. And so if you're going to

1038
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: say a great advisor is willing to get fired, you

1039
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 3: also have to prepare your clients for conflict, healthy conflict.

1040
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 3: And so I realized I never prepared to have this

1041
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 3: conversation with someone that I'm gonna we're gonna, you know,

1042
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 3: be brutally honest with each other. And so the two

1043
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 3: traits I found that you have to have is to

1044
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 3: have this great professional conflict, is you have to have

1045
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 3: mutual respect and you have to have compromises, and you

1046
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 3: have to take these conversations at advance. So now I have

1047
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: them in advance, like, hey, there's gonna be time where

1048
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 3: we disagree, uh, and I'm I'm because I'm never going

1049
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 3: to give you know, blow smoke. You have tons of

1050
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 3: yes people in your life, right right, but I'm never

1051
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 3: going to disrespect you. So don't disrespect me. And at

1052
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 3: some point I'm gonna win, and sometimes you're gonna win

1053
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 3: in terms of a level of compromise. If I would

1054
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 3: have had that, I think this would have gone better.

1055
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 3: It did not. It went really bad, and we were

1056
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 3: able to repair it over time. And I've had situations

1057
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 3: unfortunately where I just weren't maybe I didn't get the

1058
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 3: client early enough to create behaviors. Gambling, mental health, all

1059
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 3: these aspects that are all over life and in the

1060
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 3: world are highly They're all over sports too, and there's

1061
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 3: just some people you just can't can't save and so

1062
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 3: those are some unfortunate situations where we did have to

1063
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 3: fire somebody.

1064
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 2: So that raised a really interesting question. Everybody walks around

1065
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 2: with these devices, and these devices are everything from social media,

1066
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: which can be a minefield, to all of the gambling

1067
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: acts and apps. And even if you're not touching the

1068
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: DraftKings between Kylshi and Polymar or robin Hood, you could

1069
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: speculate gamble, just go down a rabbit hole for someone

1070
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: with a lot of cash burning hole in their pocket

1071
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: could be really dangerous. This always connected, always on world.

1072
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 2: What sort of of advice are you giving clients who

1073
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: you know have these seven and eight figure contracts?

1074
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: Uh? Those are those are the ones where you use

1075
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 3: a little bit of fear and start sharing some stories

1076
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 3: that have happened to others and you know, potentially getting

1077
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 3: black balled you. That's that's even investing or betting on

1078
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 3: your own sport, but just even getting anywhere near attached

1079
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 3: to it is something that could affect the growing wealth

1080
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 3: that you could create over time. I get there's a

1081
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 3: level of scare as you can scare them with that,

1082
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 3: and for all of us, it's not gambling in sports

1083
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 3: and the amount of revenue. I don't think it's a

1084
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 3: great It really isn't a great thing.

1085
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: I know, it's pretty awful. And you have a whole

1086
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 2: generation of young, mostly mails, that have become gambling problems

1087
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 2: addicted to it. Does fear really work in that, Hey,

1088
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: you're risking a billion dollars against ye fooling around with

1089
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: ten or twenty thousand dollars. It doesn't make any sense.

1090
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: The scarier ones are in Vegas. When you go to

1091
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 3: Vegas or you go some of the other casinos and

1092
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 3: you learn the very first time up what a marker is.

1093
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 3: And so what Vegas created with the markers is there's

1094
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 3: no exchange of money, right, it's just signing your name.

1095
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: And then inside that contract that also says that they

1096
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 3: have they can reserve the right to go into your

1097
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 3: bank account and take the funds if you don't pay up.

1098
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 3: And so as you can imagine, when there's no exchange

1099
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 3: of funds and you just sign your name and that's

1100
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 3: a rabbit hole that you can go down, that's disastrous.

1101
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: There have been studies that people who spend cash versus

1102
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: credit cards. Credit card you're just swiping or tapping, you know,

1103
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like you're spending money when you're counting

1104
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 2: out hundreds to buy a watch or whatever. I can

1105
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 2: imagine the mark in Vegas has to be really dangerous.

1106
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 3: Even to that point, we've had clients where we've decided

1107
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 3: to have them write every check, pay every single bill.

1108
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: They feel it.

1109
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 3: So it's you send the check book. You know here

1110
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 3: it is. Now you have to sign it. You see

1111
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: exactly how much you're paying for each of these transactions.

1112
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: It works, I would say, I would imagine that's effective.

1113
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: But that raises a really interesting question. So the economics

1114
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: of being an elite athlete. I mean, you go back

1115
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 2: to the sixties and seventies, the top of the team

1116
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: roster really wasn't making a lot of money. Now across

1117
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 2: the whole industry, it's big bucks and the top is,

1118
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: you know, crazy big bucks. How has this changed the

1119
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: way you think about asset allocation planning? Looking at everything

1120
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 2: from you mentioned safe assets, divenends and bonds, to speculative

1121
00:58:55,240 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 2: venture capital and privates, How has the world of athletic

1122
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: finances changed over the course of your career.

1123
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: You have to be the first thing that's changed the

1124
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: most is you have to be sophisticated from day one. Right,

1125
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 3: So if you think when I was getting into the

1126
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 3: business in twenty and nine and ten, these contracts didn't exist,

1127
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 3: and I was I knew enough to get clients in

1128
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 3: the mutual funds and get them to save. It's these

1129
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 3: contracts are very big, and they're they're they're early, and

1130
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 3: they're coming fast. And so it's just from a level

1131
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 3: of planning and understanding how to build this. You know

1132
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 3: that one of our lessons is the next generation is watching, right,

1133
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 3: and so what what what are the decisions that we

1134
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 3: can make now that's set sets you up, not just

1135
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,479
Speaker 3: for yourself but the future. Right. We're not talking about

1136
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 3: going broke anymore. This is one hundred year money. And

1137
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 3: so that that level of estate planning and that exists

1138
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 3: for a twenty two or twenty three year old now

1139
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 3: versus that we never had that before. And so I

1140
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 3: don't think the ascolocation needs to change. It's just that

1141
00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 3: entrepreneurial bucket will evolve over time. And so having that

1142
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 3: level of getting someone with the founder mentality. I don't

1143
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 3: know about you, but I love being a founder. Being

1144
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 3: a CEO is not as fun. So I like I

1145
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 3: like having them. People say, be the CEO of your money,

1146
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 3: like I want you to be the founder of your money.

1147
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 3: Like this is we don't want the shirt sleeves a

1148
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 3: shirt sleeves metaphor that everybody talks about. Let's think about

1149
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 3: that entrepreneurial bucket and where you think you could have

1150
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 3: great impact. Some of them may say, I just want

1151
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 3: to be a coach. I just want to coach my

1152
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 3: high school team. Really, and I think that's great, and

1153
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: that's it's.

1154
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: Come out of the NBA to be a high school coach.

1155
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 3: Correct, And that's I think that's that would be an

1156
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 3: extraordinary gift back to the universe. As to as to

1157
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 3: your you know, your mindset and what you what you

1158
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 3: believe in and the gift back, it's important to have

1159
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 3: fill your time right because that's so having more meetings

1160
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 3: with people that are either executives or other coaches and

1161
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 3: whatever your aspect is. You have to start thinking beginning

1162
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 3: with the end in mind. You know, by the time

1163
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 3: you're twenty five years old, even though you may play forty,

1164
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 3: so that you can fall into that and make that

1165
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 3: transition back to what we started with with the schedule,

1166
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 3: the predictability, the accountability. You have that professional locker room

1167
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 3: in life that is established for that third bucket.

1168
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 2: So I'm seeing more and more of athletes getting involved

1169
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: kind of across different sports. Michael Jordan now owns a

1170
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: NASCAR team or as an investor in a NASCAR team,

1171
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: and we see other athletes buying British soccer teams. How

1172
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 2: do you think about sort of cross pollination from one

1173
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 2: sport to another to another.

1174
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 3: I think the common ground is just be be wary

1175
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 3: of your time. You start spreading yourself. It's very easy

1176
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 3: to look on social media and then you see someone

1177
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 3: owns three or four different teams and they're in their

1178
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 3: own sale GP and then they have a Formula one

1179
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 3: race team and they all they're all limited partners in

1180
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 3: these things. Right, It's it looks great, but just think

1181
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 3: about how you want to spend your time, time and retirement.

1182
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 3: Do you want to be spread out all over the

1183
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: world and having you know, access to these things. Yes,

1184
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 3: But at the same times you've got to go fulfill

1185
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 3: You have an obligation to fulfill your time in these things.

1186
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 3: And so part of it is like how do we

1187
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 3: simplify your life. I'm reading now a book for the

1188
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 3: second time, and I'm still not good at it. Called essentialism.

1189
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 3: I think it's called essentialism, and that's that's the disciplined

1190
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 3: pursuit of less because I have a ton of user

1191
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 3: air in my life where I just say I help

1192
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 3: clients say no, but I say yes too much to

1193
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 3: to doing other things. And that's where we have to

1194
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 3: remind Yes, you have a ton of access, but let's

1195
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 3: be most careful of your time and where you want

1196
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 3: to spend it. There there are there are opportunities, think

1197
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 3: to own things, but to spread yourself out and be

1198
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 3: all over the world and these soccer teams and all that.

1199
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 3: It's an interesting it sounds interesting, but I don't think

1200
01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 3: it's effective.

1201
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 2: So what do you think athlete investors are either not

1202
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 2: thinking about or not talking about, what's a blind spot

1203
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 2: that would be really useful for them to better understand

1204
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: have greater awareness of.

1205
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 3: Well, let me for a second, I'll I'll over generalize

1206
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 3: what's happening. So we've in sports per se, so we

1207
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 3: went from spending money on materialistic things to over investing

1208
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 3: in private things. And so it's yes, it's great that

1209
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 3: we're talking about how much we're saving, but it's also

1210
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 3: like I invested in this deal, and I invested in

1211
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 3: this deal, and I invested in this deal, and as

1212
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 3: you know, like no one really understands risk and taken

1213
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 3: too much and at that point you truly start evaluating

1214
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 3: what that means. So I don't know if everybody understands yet.

1215
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 3: As an investor, you know, all these things that we're

1216
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 3: investing in privately, you don't know how much it's worth.

1217
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 3: And so that's a significant blind spot for many. Back

1218
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 3: to those mental traits that we all have as athlete,

1219
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 3: that we're willing to bet on themselves. With you, that

1220
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 3: there is no nothing that we're not going to take

1221
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 3: risk on. That's not the trait that you want as

1222
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 3: an investor. Again, it's reminding that we don't need to

1223
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 3: take this type of risk. You know, some clients growth

1224
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 3: buckets were just in beauty bonds for ten years until

1225
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 3: they produced enough income to support your lifestyle. But it's

1226
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 3: a significant blind spot right now that nobody really knows

1227
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 3: what some of these things are worth. But it looks

1228
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 3: good on paper.

1229
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 2: You had to say the very least I have to

1230
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: bring up your podcast, The pros Pro. Your first guest

1231
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 2: was Eli Manning, is that right. First, what what what

1232
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 2: is this podcast thing? What motivated you to go that way?

1233
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 3: It's this new thing, it's just starting, it just came out.

1234
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: And what do you want to accomplish by sitting down

1235
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 2: with people like Eli Manning.

1236
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 3: It's ah for me. I was just hoping it's a

1237
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 3: gift to the to the next generation that's seeking information

1238
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 3: and get some quality information. So it's we see now

1239
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 3: in the NIL world where I'll have a young person

1240
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 3: come to me and say, Hey, I play in Oregon,

1241
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 3: but I'm going to set up my LLC in Texas

1242
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,919
Speaker 3: because I have an aunt there and because I read

1243
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 3: this thing on Instagram where I could not pay any

1244
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 3: state income taxes and so there's information out there and

1245
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 3: it's just not right. And so this whole idea of

1246
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 3: wanting each of these clients to be the person that

1247
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 3: someone walks to in their locker room and asks a

1248
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 3: bunch of questions of the pro I just want to

1249
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 3: now interview a lot of these successful athletes that have

1250
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 3: been through like Eli as an example, you know, had

1251
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 3: to come in to New York and lead a city,

1252
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 3: uh and have to understand the most important things to

1253
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 3: build trust quickly with his teammates with his coaches, like

1254
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 3: there's all these really built in athletic things are important.

1255
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: And then he came into an extraordinary amount of wealth

1256
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 3: and he had to manage it. And then for him,

1257
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 3: it's learning how to give give money away the most effectively.

1258
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 3: And so the more I can just extract information from

1259
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 3: people that have been there and done that and just

1260
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,919
Speaker 3: share that with everybody, it's a testament to what these

1261
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 3: individuals have done. But at the same time, you know,

1262
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 3: we can all learn from them as well.

1263
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: Creating a permanent record is so important because the half

1264
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 2: life of financial literacy is so short. Like I have

1265
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 2: had the same conversation like every three years, Like didn't

1266
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 2: we talk about this in twenty twenty three? Yeah, but

1267
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 2: I kinda forgot. So let's I only have you for

1268
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 2: a few more minutes. Let's jump to our favorite questions

1269
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 2: I ask all of my guests starting with you refer

1270
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: to a few people, but let's let's put them in

1271
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 2: one place. Who are your mentors who helped shape both

1272
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: of your careers?

1273
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 3: My mom, for sure, you know she she did whatever

1274
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 3: it took to raise three boys and then put me

1275
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 3: in there, put me in the right situation, to have

1276
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 3: an opportunity to be around Ludelsen. You know, something that

1277
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 3: coach did. One of the great gifts that Coach Olsen

1278
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 3: gave us was he made us go and public do

1279
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 3: public speaking at school. So we had to do sixth, seventh,

1280
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 3: and eighth grade when we were a freshman, and then

1281
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 3: sophomore year you get started working your way into high

1282
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 3: school and by senior year you had to speak at

1283
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 3: a high school graduation. But he brought in people to

1284
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 3: teach you how to communicate effectively. I had no idea

1285
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 3: the power of that over time once you get into

1286
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 3: the work world, and the level of confidence it gives you. Well,

1287
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 3: at the same time, always having a high level of humility.

1288
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 3: That was a great gift outside of all the basketball stuff.

1289
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 3: And being always being prepared, that was a great gift

1290
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 3: he gave us. You know, Jim Escabido was an example

1291
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 3: at Frankel Templeton who told me you don't know nothing

1292
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 3: about nothing, which was great. And then as I began

1293
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 3: to get into understanding the mindset effectively, having someone like

1294
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 3: Ken Hayman who really re taught me Maso's hierarchy of

1295
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: human needs in this level of safety and security, so

1296
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,439
Speaker 3: many humans are stuck in and if we can give

1297
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 3: them a reason to say no to a lot of

1298
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 3: things and the power of a plan to get them

1299
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 3: to some level of a connection, whether it's a human

1300
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 3: or professional. That was a great gift that he give me,

1301
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: but gave me. But I've found now over time that

1302
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 3: it's less just mentors and more just finding ambassadors for you,

1303
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 3: Like I see it with my kids as an example

1304
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 3: of I have a daughter didn't necessarily have great confidence

1305
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,719
Speaker 3: in her stuff athletically, and then just someone just took

1306
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 3: extra time to say, you know, if you did this, this,

1307
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 3: and this, I think you could be exceptional, and it's

1308
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 3: like it and then they work with you, and it's

1309
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 3: just finding more ambassadors. And that's just what I'm trying

1310
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 3: to do as an advisor. Advisors to be an ambassador

1311
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 3: on behalf of more clients. It's super powerful. It's not

1312
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 3: necessarily a mentor relationship, but it's just I think the

1313
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 3: greatest gift you can give somebody else is your belief

1314
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 3: in them, even when they don't believe in themselves, huh.

1315
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 3: And so that's the power of being an ambassador. I

1316
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 3: think I highly recommend it for as many people as possible.

1317
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 2: Let's talk about books. What are you reading right now?

1318
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 2: What are some of your favorites. You mentioned a book earlier.

1319
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 3: I want to Greg McNown I think it's as Yeah,

1320
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 3: that's a great, that's a uh. That is a discipline,

1321
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,440
Speaker 3: pursuit of less and getting rid of some of the inefficiencies.

1322
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 3: It's in everybody's life, and you could end up doing more.

1323
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 3: I always my favorite book is always the one. Like

1324
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 3: for me, it's whatever got you reading. I didn't read

1325
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 3: in college. I did what I had to do to

1326
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 3: get good grades and stay eligible. And my first book

1327
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 3: ever read was John Grisham was the Firm, and it

1328
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 3: was for me. It was it got me excited to

1329
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 3: want to turn the page and and so. And now

1330
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 3: I read as often and as much as I possibly can.

1331
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 3: I just can't get enough of it. But I always

1332
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 3: say for those that aren't reading, just read anything that

1333
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 3: would excite. Could be a magazine, it could be a

1334
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 3: comic strip. But whatever it gets you excited to start reading, start.

1335
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 2: Let's talk about streaming. What are you either watching or

1336
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 2: listening to? What keeps you occupied when you're traveling around

1337
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,839
Speaker 2: the country visiting various athletes.

1338
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 3: Binging constantly on everything Netflix, and just watch Madison, which

1339
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 3: was a great. Oh really so sad.

1340
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: Well.

1341
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 3: I don't give much away, but it's it's sad. I

1342
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 3: like good cries on air I cry more on airplanes

1343
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 3: than anywhere else.

1344
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 2: If you watch Madison, I'm assuming you saw a landman

1345
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 2: for sure.

1346
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1347
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:20,799
Speaker 2: Anything Tailor Shardon is extraordiny.

1348
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 3: I don't know when he sleeps, and.

1349
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 2: He's got another there's like a new show coming out

1350
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 2: like this month. I'm just astonished how how productive he is.

1351
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 2: Give us another. What else are you watch?

1352
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I can't even remember the one I'm

1353
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 3: watching with my wife. We always have these rules where

1354
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 3: we have to watch them together. We can say outside

1355
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 3: saying one, there's one whether they're dating. Age is like

1356
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 3: twenty year difference. I can't remember that one. It's I

1357
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 3: became dumber every twenty minutes that I watch it. My

1358
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 3: I rewatched West Wing and John Adams and Band of

1359
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 3: Brothers probably twice. I'm in a loop.

1360
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 2: So it's funny. I was. I don't remember what I

1361
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 2: was doing when West Wing was on, but it wasn't

1362
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 2: watching TV. And it's on my list of things to

1363
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 2: go back and watch during the pandemic. We watched mad Men,

1364
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 2: which I had never seen, and it's really amazing, amazing show.

1365
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 2: Final two questions. What sort of advice would you give

1366
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 2: to a recent college grad interested in either a career

1367
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 2: as a professional athlete or working with professional athletes in

1368
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 2: a financial capacity.

1369
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 3: It does help to come with a sports background, However,

1370
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 3: it's nowhere near the most important trait. The more you

1371
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 3: can bring interesting experiences and knowledge to sports, the better.

1372
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 3: That was the example of Moneyball and a bunch of

1373
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 3: statistical sure nerds, you know, brought data to help drive

1374
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 3: more opportunities in sports and be more effective. So you

1375
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 3: can bring an outside perspective. However, I think whether it's

1376
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 3: getting into sports or anywhere else, coming in with this

1377
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 3: service mindset of nothing is beneath you. I did have

1378
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 3: a situation one time where an honor student came in

1379
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 3: as an early early job with us and said, hey,

1380
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 3: I I've been paying bills and bookkeeping for clients for

1381
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 3: the last six months, and I was an honor student

1382
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 3: at such and such college, like this is beneath me,

1383
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 3: and I'm saying, well, last week I was cleaning gutters

1384
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 3: in a client's house because it was the first time

1385
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 3: then being a homeowner, and we're trying to teach them

1386
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 3: how to manage a home. Nothing's beneath you. So I

1387
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 3: think if you just come in with built to serve,

1388
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 3: with that service mindset, you're going to be successful in

1389
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 3: anything that you do.

1390
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 2: Huh. I love that answer. And our final question, what

1391
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 2: do you know about the world of investing in wealth

1392
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 2: management today? Might have been useful twenty five years ago

1393
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:50,759
Speaker 2: when you were first getting started.

1394
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 3: I would have listened to what when a first job?

1395
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 3: When Sir John Templeton at Franklin Templeton was giving us

1396
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 3: some of these quotes like the forwards and investing is

1397
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 3: this time it's different? You know? Bull markets are born

1398
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 3: on pessimism, they grow on skepticism, they mature on optimism,

1399
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 3: and they die on euphoria. I would have listened, maybe

1400
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 3: because nothing's changed.

1401
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 2: Uh.

1402
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 3: And it's taken me a long time to have to

1403
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 3: not have any fomo when it comes to investing, but

1404
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 3: I'm there, and I would have listened to a lot

1405
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 3: of his traits and quotes from back then because obviously

1406
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 3: he had lived in before me. I just wish I

1407
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 3: would have listened early days.

1408
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 2: Huh. Joe really fascinating stuff. Thank you for being so

1409
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 2: generous with your time. We have been speaking with Joe McClain.

1410
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 2: He is managing partner at MAI Capital Management. If you

1411
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 2: enjoy this conversation, well check out any of the previous

1412
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 2: six hundred or so we've done over the past twelve years.

1413
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:55,480
Speaker 2: You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, Bloomberg, Apple Podcasts,

1414
01:13:55,600 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your favorite podcasts from. I would

1415
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: be remiss if I didn't thank the Cracked team that

1416
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 2: helps put these conversations together each week. My audio engineer

1417
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:11,839
Speaker 2: is Steve Gonzalez. Anna Luke is my producer. Sean Russo

1418
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 2: is my researcher. I'm Barry Ritoltz. You've been listening to

1419
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 2: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.