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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going today. I'm talking to Crooked Media's John Favreau.

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Speaker 1: I'm a friend of their pods, so I was very

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Speaker 1: happy he agreed to come and sit down on Work

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Speaker 1: in Progress. We talked about his time as Obama's head

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Speaker 1: speech writer, how he got that job, what it was

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Speaker 1: like to step into the Oval office for the first time,

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Speaker 1: his most memorable moment there, what made him decide to

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Speaker 1: leave Washington, and of course politics enjoy So I've been

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Speaker 1: aware of you for such a long time because of

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Speaker 1: working on both Obama campaigns. Yeah, that's right. And I

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Speaker 1: remember or when he was a senator and went on

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Speaker 1: Oprah and I was like, that guy is amazing. And

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Speaker 1: so just in learning more about his world, knew that

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Speaker 1: you were speech writing. This is our first time actually

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Speaker 1: like hanging out in person with and your dog is here.

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Speaker 1: It's like a real highlight for me, the ball around

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Speaker 1: just being a que little cutie. So before we get

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Speaker 1: into you know, being the speechwriter for the President of

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Speaker 1: the United States and all of the other amazing things

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Speaker 1: that you've done and are now doing. I always like

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Speaker 1: to go back because you are a word smith. You

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Speaker 1: are a thought leader. Who is little John? Like? Who

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Speaker 1: are you as a kid? Not the rapper? Were you?

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Speaker 1: Always wordy and analytical? And it was always wordy? My

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Speaker 1: mom always tells the story that when she would push

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Speaker 1: me around in a carriage in the store, instead of

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Speaker 1: like pointing at toys, I would like point up books

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Speaker 1: and try to put books in the grocery carriage. And

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Speaker 1: I know so I was always like a reader. I

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Speaker 1: liked to write from a real young age. Politics didn't

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Speaker 1: really enter this fiction little short stories. I did that

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid. Do you remember any of them?

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Speaker 1: I don't now, but I always like I. Once I

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Speaker 1: got into school, I was loved creative writing classes, and

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Speaker 1: then for a while I thought it was going to

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Speaker 1: be a journalist, so I took some journalism classes in

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Speaker 1: high school. Politics didn't enter the scene until much later.

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Speaker 1: But I was a pretty I was a good kid,

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Speaker 1: played by all the rule. You know. It was not

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Speaker 1: a um. Do you think that he grew up in

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Speaker 1: I think I had really good parents who I would

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Speaker 1: not say they were super strict parents. But they were

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Speaker 1: just you know, they you knew when you had to

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Speaker 1: be home and when you had to go to bed,

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Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. So I played by the rules.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was a little bit of a dork.

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Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, I was the same. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, but I have to get straight a's and I,

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Speaker 1: of course I would never lie to my parents. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's how I can't break curfew. And who does that?

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Speaker 1: We were a nerd? I was. I was at my

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Speaker 1: buddy from high school's wedding a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: and his older sister had babysat us when we were kids,

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Speaker 1: my brother and I my brothers three years younger than

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Speaker 1: me and also a rule follower. And so my old

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Speaker 1: babysitters talking to my now wife, and my wife Emily

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Speaker 1: is like, so, what were John and Andy like to babysit?

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Speaker 1: She's like, honestly, it was like stealing money from the Fabrohs,

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Speaker 1: because the two of them, at like eight pm when

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Speaker 1: they were little kids would be like, it's bedtime. Now,

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Speaker 1: We're going to go brush our teeth and put ourselves

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Speaker 1: in bed, and we can't stay up past this hour,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to read Andy's story and then that's

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Speaker 1: it amazing, which that's the story my wife loves to

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Speaker 1: tell now. But yeah, that was that was us as kids. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember I had babysitters when I was a kid

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Speaker 1: who wanted to watch nine O, two and O and

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Speaker 1: my parents had decided I was not allowed to watch

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Speaker 1: it because I was and then who was it? Like

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Speaker 1: either Kelly or Brenda had sex with the other person's

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Speaker 1: boyfriend on the show, and my parents were like this

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Speaker 1: is unacceptable. Um, and then I wasn't allowed to watch

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Speaker 1: it anymore. And I remember my my babysitters in junior

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Speaker 1: high being like it's fine, though, like you used to

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Speaker 1: watch it, we can watch this show. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get in trouble. Yeah, I was like

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Speaker 1: getting I was getting pure pressured into breaking the rules

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Speaker 1: by my babysitters. So there's that. What What was family

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Speaker 1: life like like? Were you and your brother close? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: My brother and I are very close. He In fact,

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Speaker 1: when I moved to l A, I we moved across

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Speaker 1: the street from him. So he's he's an actor out here,

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Speaker 1: but we were always very close growing up. My parents

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Speaker 1: are the greatest parents anyone could ask for my mom

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Speaker 1: as a teacher. So you know, we all came home

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Speaker 1: after school together and hung out or my brother and

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Speaker 1: I and dad was in sales, and it was just

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Speaker 1: a really close knit family. We had a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: We laughed a lot. My parents always encouraged me to

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Speaker 1: you know, told me that I could do anything that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do, made me believe in myself, and

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Speaker 1: you know, let let me make big important choices, right,

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Speaker 1: Like there is a time when that maybe I should

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Speaker 1: go to a private high school instead of the public school.

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Speaker 1: But all my friends with the public school, and they said,

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Speaker 1: that's what you really want to do, then you should

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Speaker 1: do that. And so they always gave me a lot

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Speaker 1: of guidance but sort of let me be free to

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Speaker 1: make my own choices. And so I always appreciate them

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Speaker 1: for that. How do you think that affects who you

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Speaker 1: are today? Like? I think a lot about for some

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Speaker 1: reason that they have been really deep diving on early

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Speaker 1: childhood development and psychology. I have no idea why I don't,

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Speaker 1: but I'm I'm just I'm so in it. And I

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Speaker 1: think about what kind of a foundation confidence that is

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Speaker 1: given to you by you know, your parents or your

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Speaker 1: teachers are the really influential adults in your life as

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Speaker 1: a child. What that does for you as an adult.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think what I think, what they gave

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Speaker 1: me that most relates to sort of who I am

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Speaker 1: today and what I do, is this sort of sense

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Speaker 1: of empathy, you know, the this idea that I should

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Speaker 1: always be putting myself in other people's shoes, that I

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Speaker 1: should see the world from other points of view, that

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't be too judgmental of everyone that I meet,

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think that's obviously those are important

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Speaker 1: lessons for your personal life. But you know, I'm in politics,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's probably a lot of my political

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Speaker 1: beliefs stem from my family and they you know, my

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Speaker 1: parents weren't like overtly pull plitical. They were good Massachusetts Democrats,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I can remember watching the presidential debates

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Speaker 1: on the floor of our living room with my dad

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Speaker 1: and that was sort of like my first memory of politics.

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Speaker 1: But they were not they were not too overtly political.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like the values that they instilled in

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Speaker 1: me are pretty progressive values. Yeah, that's interesting. My my

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Speaker 1: family avoided a lot of political conversation. When I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, but it was a lot of talking about

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Speaker 1: values and and for me, my grandmother immigrated to the

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Speaker 1: US through Ellis Island, like came here on a boat

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Speaker 1: from Italy, you know, So there's that very kind of nostalgic,

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Speaker 1: romanticized American experience. And my dad is Canadian and I

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Speaker 1: remember I was twelve when he decided to become a citizen,

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Speaker 1: and I made flash cards and to my dad's study

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Speaker 1: for his citizenship tests, and so it was it was

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Speaker 1: this really interesting thing where we had to talk a

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Speaker 1: lot about what it meant, like what does it mean

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Speaker 1: to be a citizen, what does it mean to be

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Speaker 1: a concerned citizen un engaged member of your community? You know?

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Speaker 1: And and for me it was like, well, why why

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Speaker 1: does it matter? I had questions for my dad like

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Speaker 1: why do you want to do this? Um? And you know,

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Speaker 1: for him, I think a lot of it was I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine God forbid something weird where ever to happen,

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Speaker 1: Like my wife and my daughter are here, and I

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Speaker 1: want to make sure I get to stay here. And

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Speaker 1: it was very cool. Yeah, I imagine that's a that's

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Speaker 1: an incredibly formative experience right at the point of your

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Speaker 1: parents getting citizenship. Yeah. No, I mean, now I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 1: but my dad was born in Canada. Can I get

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Speaker 1: a dual citizenship? I can't. I just want to have

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Speaker 1: a passport somewhere else just in case. No. We I mean,

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Speaker 1: my my dad's dad was a state rep in New Hampshire,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, there was a little public service

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Speaker 1: in our background. But it was also you know, all

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Speaker 1: of my grandparents are you know, first generation Americans, and

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Speaker 1: so we have this sort of immigrant story and they all,

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Speaker 1: I know, I think my parents both grew up pretty

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Speaker 1: you know, working class, even a little poor, and so

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Speaker 1: that was also instilled in me to this idea that

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Speaker 1: you know, this is a country where immigrants were welcome.

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Speaker 1: Our families were immigrants. But also you know, we can

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Speaker 1: remember when we didn't have a lot, and um, this

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Speaker 1: is a place that offers opportunity, or this should offer opportunities.

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Speaker 1: So I think all of the sort of the political

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Speaker 1: stuff is in the background, even if I didn't know

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Speaker 1: it at the time. Yeah, and it is. It's it

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Speaker 1: is so formative, those kinds of experiences. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: remember asking my mom as a kid, why we don't

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Speaker 1: speak Italian in our house? And my grandmother, my mother

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Speaker 1: there's mother refused to let her mom, so my great

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Speaker 1: grandmother speak Italian to my mom because she wanted them

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Speaker 1: to assimilate, and because there was so much kind of tension.

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Speaker 1: And you know, not that it's in any way, shape

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Speaker 1: or form the same experience that people of color have

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Speaker 1: had in this country, but like there were really charged

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Speaker 1: derogatory terms that my family heard all of the time

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Speaker 1: because they were these Italian immigrants. And it's wild how

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Speaker 1: in one generation you can lose you can lose your

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Speaker 1: culture by trying to fit into another. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I just I think it's interesting. Do you know where

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Speaker 1: your family came from? Grandparents or great grandparents Greece, Italy

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Speaker 1: and on my dad's side French Canadian a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I have. So I have a few words that I

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Speaker 1: say that people are like, are you Canadian? Yeah? It's

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Speaker 1: like sort of a half Boston half Canadian accident. I

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Speaker 1: know exactly what it is. The thing I can the

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Speaker 1: people who are Canadian always are like, oh, you're Canadian,

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Speaker 1: because I don't say Canada, I say Canada, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: And like there are just words like Toronto that you

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Speaker 1: say and about like Canadian. Oh my dad hardcore's like, well,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about? And I'm like, dad, were

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Speaker 1: not Canadian, but I guess it's sort of the it's

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Speaker 1: the New Hampshire, you know, some of them. They all

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Speaker 1: came down from Quebec. And then also you get a

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Speaker 1: little bit Boston accent in there too, and then the

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Speaker 1: Netherlands too. I'm a little bit Dutch, so that's those

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Speaker 1: are all the Yeah, a little of everything. My dad,

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Speaker 1: my dad's Montreal, but not French Canadian. I think. I

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Speaker 1: think my my dad, like whatever. My dad's Canadian family

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Speaker 1: is like I think generationally came over from Ireland. And

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Speaker 1: really I've only learned that because I did the genetic testing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: before I knew they were handing over that data and

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Speaker 1: I was like, god, damn it. I am such a

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Speaker 1: data science nerd and I can't believe I got duped.

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Speaker 1: But honestly, whatever, I was like, cool, I just what

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Speaker 1: are you going to do with it? Like I have

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Speaker 1: no interesting information to offer you? Enjoy my background? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: enjoy my breakdown of you know, different places, like historical migration. So, okay,

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Speaker 1: childhood is pretty idellic. Family is great. There's there's influence

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Speaker 1: in hindsight, you see how how there's this sort of

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Speaker 1: good citizen ran political influence happening. What is your first job,

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Speaker 1: because you weren't like writing for your first job, right,

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Speaker 1: my first job? Like first job out of college? No,

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Speaker 1: first job? Do you have a job in high school? Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well first, first I was a work the cash register

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Speaker 1: at CBS was the first one. Then the interesting job

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Speaker 1: I had most summers in high school was I was

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Speaker 1: a telemarketer at a local newspaper. What yeah, at the

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Speaker 1: Eagle Tribune newspaper and you're selling newspapers over the phone.

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Speaker 1: It was. It was brutal. We were really good at

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Speaker 1: it though. Yeah did it with my two best friends

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Speaker 1: in high school. We we would drive to the town

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Speaker 1: next to us and we would just do like ten

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Speaker 1: hour shifts with a bunch of other people. Newspapers sell

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Speaker 1: newspapers all over New England. So to this day, when

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Speaker 1: I go back home, I'm from you know, North Boston,

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Speaker 1: but I go to Maine, I go to New Hampshire

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Speaker 1: and I like, see these newspapers. I'm like, I remember

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Speaker 1: when I sold that newspaper. That's so great we get

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was a good practice for like you know,

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Speaker 1: door knocking and politics and organizing and stuff, because people

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Speaker 1: would hang up on you, they'd say awful things to you,

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Speaker 1: just you know, like what people do to tell marketers.

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Speaker 1: But I did that all through high school. I also,

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Speaker 1: I think it was my senior year, junior year, I

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Speaker 1: had my first internship that was political in the in

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Speaker 1: the state House in Massachusetts in Boston, and I worked

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Speaker 1: for actually Republican state senator. I guess it was my

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Speaker 1: first year in college because he had gone to Holy

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Speaker 1: Cross where I went to college. And so I interned

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Speaker 1: in his in his state Senate office, and and I

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed the internship, and I enjoyed politics, and then

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Speaker 1: I started thinking about that more as a possible career option.

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Speaker 1: What was it? What what kind of woke you up there?

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Speaker 1: I mean I had always been interested in you know,

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Speaker 1: I did like student government when I was in high school.

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Speaker 1: And then you were involved in college democrats, right, I

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Speaker 1: was involved in college democrats. I started becoming you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of passionate about specific issues in college because I

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Speaker 1: was a science major, sociology major, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: there's like a real traditional holy Cross of community service,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so Worcester is the is the city

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Speaker 1: where holy Cross is located in and we'd go out

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Speaker 1: into Worcester and you know, I volunteer at the local

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Speaker 1: welfare office try to make sure that welfare recipients their

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Speaker 1: rights were being upheld. And so we worked with some

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Speaker 1: you know, lawyers to make to advocate for people getting welfare.

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Speaker 1: And I started doing projects like that and thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's great to do all the service, but they're sort

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Speaker 1: of bigger laws at stake here, and there's decisions being

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Speaker 1: made by people, you know, hundreds of miles away that

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Speaker 1: are impacting people's lives in the community, and if we

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Speaker 1: can change those laws, then we can make an even

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Speaker 1: bigger impact. So, you know, my interest in community service

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Speaker 1: and my interest in politics sort of like start fusing together.

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Speaker 1: And then junior year in college, I had the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to do an internship in d C and sort of

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Speaker 1: by luck, I ended up in John Carey's office. He

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Speaker 1: was thinking about running for president, and that was two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, and so when I graduated in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three, I joined the Carry campaign as an

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Speaker 1: assistant press assistant, and I was you know, just answering phones,

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Speaker 1: getting coffee, all the glamorous stuff the company with internships

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Speaker 1: or the comes of being an assistant. Oh yeah, I remember,

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Speaker 1: I mean before college. But in the summers in high

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Speaker 1: school I had to work for my dad. And my

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Speaker 1: dad was like, you are going to do the worst

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Speaker 1: jobs there are, because that's what the real world is.

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, and yeah, just like making coffee

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Speaker 1: and running errands and like repainting floors after everyone got

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Speaker 1: off work at the studio and like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's good to do that work. I think. So I

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Speaker 1: always I you know, I I I love millennials, and

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Speaker 1: I think gen Z is also pretty amazing. But like

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Speaker 1: my one caveat is like, guys, just because things look

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Speaker 1: cool on Instagram, like you don't start there, like you

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Speaker 1: have you have to be the coffee runner. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of good for you. It's sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: I think like the fancier the college that you go to.

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Speaker 1: You know, some of the graduates coming out of those

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Speaker 1: colleges will think that they could land, you know, land

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Speaker 1: in an internship. In immediately you're like, oh, well, did

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Speaker 1: you want to write a speech for Barack Obama? Is

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Speaker 1: part of your internship? But you know. I always tell

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Speaker 1: young people today the best advice is, like, you're going

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Speaker 1: to go do an intern trip or take an entry

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Speaker 1: level job, and you're going to do shit work, and

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Speaker 1: you should do it with a smile and just always

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Speaker 1: ask your boss like what do you need? How can

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Speaker 1: I help? And if you're very helpful and you have

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Speaker 1: a good attitude, your talent will be spotted eventually, and

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Speaker 1: then you'll be able to sort of move up the

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Speaker 1: ladder and get the job that you want. I always

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Speaker 1: tell people that the best question you can ask is

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Speaker 1: what else can I do? Yeah, for sure, because if

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Speaker 1: you ask for more responsibility, you know, not to be

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Speaker 1: like to l a like manifesto or whatever. But and

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're putting out there like I can

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Speaker 1: handle more energetically, people go, oh, that person can handle more,

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Speaker 1: and they start to give you more responsibility and you

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Speaker 1: start you start to learn. So this is us coming

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Speaker 1: to you like your parents telling you. And I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, I did all kind of was that kid?

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Speaker 1: I did work? Okay, So so Carrie's office, you go back,

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Speaker 1: you're working in the press department, and what happens. I

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Speaker 1: want to I want to lock the bridge, so I

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Speaker 1: get there in June of two three, that's when I graduated,

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Speaker 1: and the campaign is not doing great. It's like sort

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Speaker 1: of the beginning of how that campaign fell apart in

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Speaker 1: the primary. So at the time Howard Dean started catching

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Speaker 1: on if you remember that campaign and right, and so

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Speaker 1: the Howard Dean surge sort of starts in the summer

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Speaker 1: of oh three, maybe a little bit in the follow

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Speaker 1: out three. And I was looking back at the polls

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Speaker 1: and John carys like one and some of these polls

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Speaker 1: ends up being the Democratic nomonee. John Edwards was down

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Speaker 1: in the polls two ends up being our vice presidential nominee.

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Speaker 1: And so the campaign is not going well, and there's

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Speaker 1: a big shake up and the campaign managers fired. He

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Speaker 1: leaves a bunch of other people leave, a couple of

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Speaker 1: My boss in the press office at the time, Bert

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Speaker 1: Gibbs leaves, he was the press secretary, and new crew

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Speaker 1: comes in. And at the time, there's one speech writer

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Speaker 1: in the Carry campaign. It's named Boundary Attorney. And I

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Speaker 1: was sitting next to him and I sort of bugged him,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit more than an assistant should. Like.

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Speaker 1: We just talked about I was do you need help

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Speaker 1: on this speech and he's like, well, you're not a

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Speaker 1: speech writer. But I would always ask him every day.

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Speaker 1: And so the new staff comes in and andres like,

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Speaker 1: all right, well I do need a deputy speech writer

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Speaker 1: for this campaign to continue. And I'm like, well I

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Speaker 1: can do it, and he's like, well I don't think

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Speaker 1: you can do it. You're not really you're not a

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Speaker 1: speech writer. And then the new communications director, this woman

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Speaker 1: named Stephanie Cutter, she looks around, she's like, well, look,

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Speaker 1: we don't have any money, and who knows how long

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Speaker 1: this campaign is gonna last at this point, and so

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Speaker 1: why don't we just promote Fabs the deputy speech writer.

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Speaker 1: He's a decent writer, and because we're not going to

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Speaker 1: get anyone else to join this ship, right the right.

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Speaker 1: So that's how he became deputy speech writer and they

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Speaker 1: didn't have to pay me anymore. Was still making a year.

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Speaker 1: So then Carry stages this comeback because Howard Dean flames

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Speaker 1: out and John Kerry makes this sort of electability argument

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Speaker 1: and he becomes the Democratic nominee. I go through that

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Speaker 1: whole campaign, which is brutal, as you remember, I was like,

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Speaker 1: but he seems nice. What's happening. Yeah, he's a great

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Speaker 1: but it was. It was a it was a great

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Speaker 1: lesson in how Republicans run campaigns, especially how the modern

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Speaker 1: day Republican Party runs campaign So break that down for people,

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Speaker 1: you know, stared out on this. The formative experience of

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Speaker 1: that campaign was the swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which

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Speaker 1: was this organization that decided to attack John Kerry's war

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Speaker 1: record and sort record of service and aired all these

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Speaker 1: sort of false attacks on him. And I mean it

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Speaker 1: also seems sign kind of quaint now because Jump is president,

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Speaker 1: but at the time it was the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that shocked everyone that there would be this shadowy group

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Speaker 1: running these ads and that Bush wouldn't condemn it, and

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Speaker 1: and that people would lie, that people would lie suffer repercussions. Yea,

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Speaker 1: And and you know it was it was post nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: and Bush used fear to win that election to to

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Speaker 1: say that John Kerry wouldn't keep us safe. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty and we had our own

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Speaker 1: internal problems in that campaign too, right. There was like

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Speaker 1: it was based in DC. There was fifteen consultants that

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Speaker 1: jumped on board. You probably more in the general election.

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Speaker 1: Multiple pollsters multiple people working on every single speech, speech

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Speaker 1: by committee, everything by committee, and you know, so internally

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Speaker 1: the campaign was a little bit of a mess and

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Speaker 1: the Bush campaign was just, you know, brutal. And so

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Speaker 1: I left that campaign thinking I don't know if I'm

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Speaker 1: going to stay in politics, like this is just I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty cynical. I'm three years old. I mean, that has

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Speaker 1: to crush your enthusiasm. Yeah, I mean I remember. I

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Speaker 1: remember being home in Boston when we lost, and I

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Speaker 1: went back to my parents house the next day, even

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Speaker 1: though I've been living in d C. And I was

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Speaker 1: just I woke up in my parents house and I'm

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Speaker 1: just sitting there, like I just want to come I

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Speaker 1: think I want to come home. Maybe I'll just go

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Speaker 1: to law school like my parents wanted me to, and

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Speaker 1: that'll be that. So I thought that was it. And

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Speaker 1: then I get a message from Robert Gibbs, who had

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Speaker 1: been my boss in the Carry campaign, who when he left,

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Speaker 1: joined Obama's Senate Rice. And he texted me and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, Barack Obama writes all his own speeches, wrote

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Convention speech in two thousand four. But now

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Speaker 1: that he's a senator, he's going to need to learn

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Speaker 1: to work with someone his speeches because he doesn't have

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Speaker 1: time to do it all have to delegate. So would

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Speaker 1: you be willing to come in and sit down for

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Speaker 1: breakfast with him when and see how it goes? O?

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Speaker 1: So I decided to do that. I'm having this moment

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, God, what an intimidating thing to have

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Speaker 1: somebody say like, come on breakfast with the bamba. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm like right, right right. It was exciting because

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Speaker 1: he was this like rising star in the party who

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Speaker 1: gave his very famous speeches. But I wasn't you know,

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Speaker 1: at that point I had been working with John Kerry

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Speaker 1: on speeches, so it wasn't so crazy to me. So

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Speaker 1: what's brunch like? Well? So first I read his I

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Speaker 1: read dreams from my father to prepare, and even more

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Speaker 1: than the two thousand four convention speech, dreams from my

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Speaker 1: father made me want to work for him. Then I

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Speaker 1: get really excited about it because I thought, if someone

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Speaker 1: can write this honestly about race, about their personal life,

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Speaker 1: drug use, whatever it may be. And now this this

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Speaker 1: guy's a senator and he thinks he might have a

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Speaker 1: you know, a career in politics and might even run

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Speaker 1: for president. You know, like, who knows if he's going

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Speaker 1: to be this honest, like I want to. I want

428
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: to jump on board and see that's yeah. So I

429
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: was really moved by the book, and I thought, Okay,

430
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: here's what I'll do. I will see how this interview goes.

431
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: If he likes me, if he doesn't like me, whatever,

432
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: If he likes me and wants me to have the job.

433
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: I could do this for a few years and then

434
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: go to law school because he's definitely not going to

435
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: run for president two thousand and eight, because he just

436
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: got to the Senate. And what I knew is that

437
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: I did not want to do another presidential campaign because

438
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: it takes so much out of you. So I sit

439
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: with him for breakfast. It's his first week in the Senate.

440
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: We sit, you know, in the Senate dining in the

441
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: Senate dining room, not where like the senators go, because

442
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: I don't think he realized he could sit there yet.

443
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: It was just like with everyone else, and you know,

444
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: he was He basically asked me the question you asked

445
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: me at the beginning of this podcast. He said, like,

446
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: tell me about your family life, tell me about growing up,

447
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: what got you into politics? Just the most easygoing interview

448
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: that I ever could have imagined. Best best job interview

449
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: I've had. Asked me about if I had a theory

450
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: about speech writing, and he said, no, of course, I

451
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: don't have a theory about speech trading. But I noted that,

452
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, most politicians, most Democratic politicians and Republican politicians too,

453
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: they see speeches as sort of a collection of sound

454
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: bites and applause lines strung together. And what I loved

455
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: about his convention speech was he told a story from

456
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: beginning to end, and there was a story about his

457
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: life and how his life fit into the larger American story.

458
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: And you know, I said, I think we'd be a

459
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: lot better off if more politicians told stories in their speeches,

460
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: not like I met a guy in Iowa stories, but like,

461
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: the speech is a story and and it's not seen

462
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: as a collection of applause lines or a collection of like,

463
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: how am I going to get the most interesting SoundBite

464
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: out of this? And he's like yeah. So then at

465
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: the end of the interview, he just looks at me

466
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: and he goes, well, I don't think I need a

467
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: speech rader, he goes, But Gibbs tells me, I did

468
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: Gibbs tells me, I do, and you seem nice enough.

469
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: So let's of this world and that was it. Let's

470
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: give this a whorl, let's give it a whirl. There

471
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: there's there's your buzz line though it's pretty good full quote.

472
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: So what is it like to give it a whirl

473
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: with a senator? How do you begin? What's the what's

474
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: the speechwriting process? Like? How do you learn to collaborate

475
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: with him? Yeah? I remember the first speech I ever

476
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: wrote for him was he had to go to John

477
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: Lewis's sixty five birthday celebration and give a speech there.

478
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: He was very nervous about that because it's John Lewis,

479
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: John Lewis and Creti, Scott King was going to be there,

480
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: and you know all the civil rights grades who were

481
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: still alive at the time in two five, we're going

482
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: to be there. And so I right, right, So I

483
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: talked to him about the speech. He tells me a

484
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: little bit about what he wants to say. We sit

485
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: and talked for about half hour, and I leave to

486
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: go home and write this draft of it. And as

487
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: I'm walking out of the Senate office, he's like, hey, Fabs,

488
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: I know this is your first speech for me. And

489
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I know you're probably a little bit nervous. But I'm

490
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: a writer too, so I know that sometimes the new

491
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: strikes and sometimes it doesn't. So if you go home

492
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: and you you're feeling it and you can write it,

493
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: that's great. And if you can't, don't worry. Come back

494
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: in tomorrow and we'll work through it together. That's how

495
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: That's what he said. So what an angel? I mean,

496
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: just the best. I go home, I write this draft,

497
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: come back in, give it to him. He spends a

498
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: long time with these marking it up, he's editing, he's

499
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: writing his own stuff, and then he uh, he comes

500
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: over to me with the draft that's all marked up,

501
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: and he's like, so, I have some edits and I

502
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure you're okay with everything that

503
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing here, and I just wanted to walk you

504
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: through some of them. And I was like, you want

505
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm okay with your edits? You're fucking

506
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: Barack Obama. But that's how and that is how our

507
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: collaboration was for eight years. Never yelled at me, never

508
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: lost his temper, was just kind, generous, thoughtful, just the

509
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: best boss. I'll ever have what a gift? Yeah, it was,

510
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: and it was just like it was a joy, you know.

511
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: I mean I was plenty of times that I was

512
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: stressed out and you know, thought that I wasn't gonna

513
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 1: be able to handle the job. But not because of him,

514
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: you know. Wow. So in hindsight, because most of us

515
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: haven't done what you've done, what do you think makes

516
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: a good speech? How do you break that down? I

517
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: think it's sort of what I was just saying about

518
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: telling a story, right, Like I think when we when

519
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: we communicate with each other, just one on one, we

520
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: try to tell compelling stories. That's how we get our

521
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: point across. That's how we persuade each other. We try

522
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: to be animated, we try to be entertaining. And I

523
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: think somewhere along the line, people decided that giving us

524
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: speech had to be completely different than just having a

525
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: conversation with people. And and then these speeches became, at

526
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: least political speeches became stilted, they became sort of workshopped.

527
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: They're all a little calculated, they're a little cautious, politicians

528
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: are a little worried about what they're saying. They all

529
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: start to sound the same. There's either people who are

530
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: trying to do an impression of JFK, you know, or

531
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: an impression of some other person delivering a big, you know,

532
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: a good speech, political speech. And I always think that

533
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: the best speeches come from the person delivering the speech.

534
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: So I think because after Obama went on to do

535
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: a little consulting and wrote speeches for a bunch of

536
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: other people, and I'd always say, if you have time

537
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: to work with a speech writer closely, then you can

538
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: deliver a great speech. But if you just think that

539
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to hire someone to write something

540
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: for you and you're not going to play a big

541
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: part in that, you're not going to get a good

542
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: speech of it. And so I think what what makes

543
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: a great speech is figuring out at the beginning of

544
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: the process what is it that you want to communicate

545
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: in the speech in like two sentences or less, So like,

546
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: figure out what you want people to take away from

547
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: the speech first, What the messages that you want people

548
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: to walk away from the speech with. Figure that out first,

549
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: and then build the speech around it, because otherwise you're

550
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: just going to start, you know, assembling different blocks together

551
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: and it's going to be sort of shitty. Um So,

552
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: I think I think storytelling is key. I think trying

553
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: to make it as true to yourself as possible is key.

554
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: I think taking some risks in speeches is good. I

555
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: remember when Obama wrote the race speech and I worked

556
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: on that with him, and you know, the parts of

557
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: that speech that I wrote, or parts that any politician

558
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: could have written. The parts at Barack Obama rogue, which

559
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: is most of the speech, were lines like you know,

560
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: I can know more disown Reverend Right than I can

561
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: my white grandmother, who also said things that made me

562
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: cringe and uttered racial stereotypes that made me cringe. When

563
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: I saw that line come back from Obama in that draft,

564
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I could have never written this line.

565
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: I would have never critiqued your white grandmother speech on race.

566
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: That had to come from him. And then I remember,

567
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: right before he gave that speech, he said, I don't

568
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: know if I can get like the president saying the

569
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: things that I want to say about race. But I

570
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: also know that if I'm too afraid to say them,

571
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: that I don't deserve to be president. And I just

572
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: love him to miss him every day, just like the

573
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: president we have now. Yikes, It's interesting because the words

574
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: that sort of jump out at me as I'm listening

575
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: to you talk are things like transparency and radical vulnerability.

576
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: And I think vulnerability feels risky to people and the politicians, yeah,

577
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: which is strange to me, because we've lost the pot

578
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: a little bit, Like they're out there just trying to

579
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: get reelected all the time and we're over here going, hello,

580
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: we elected you to work for us, not to run,

581
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: not to run your campaigns. And I think that part

582
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: of at least for me as a as a voter

583
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: and an advocate and a person who you know, signed

584
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: up to campaign really early. I was so inspired because

585
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen a politician talk to us. I had

586
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: never felt like a politician and talked to me that way.

587
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: He was a human being who I trusted, and I

588
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: wish that we were cultivating more of that energy in

589
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: the space well. And part of cultivating that energy is

590
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: I think I think one of the reasons that politicians

591
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: aren't more openly vulnerable or transparent is because oftentimes you

592
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: don't get rewarded for that by reporters, by the media,

593
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: by Twitter, by the sort of the culture that we

594
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: have now. So can you think to yourself, if I

595
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: say something that I really believe that's a little risky

596
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: to say, or that might not be that popular. Am

597
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: I going to get dragged for this? Am I going

598
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: to get criticized for this? Is that going to be

599
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: the end? And so maybe I'll say the safer thing

600
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: and you know, it won't get people as excited, but

601
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: at least I won't get attacked. And I think you

602
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: have to be You have to be more afraid of

603
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: coming off too scripted and too cautious than you are

604
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: of committing the occasional gap. Because if you're if you

605
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: open yourself to being honest, saying what you think, saying

606
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: what's not popular, you're gonna and just and not calculating

607
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: every word that comes out of your mouth. As a politician,

608
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: you're going to screw up. You're gonna say something that

609
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: gets you in trouble, but as a whole people are

610
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: going to look at you and say, well, at least

611
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: that seems like a real person. That's so interesting. Yeah,

612
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: it's funny. I I've had people, you know, as a

613
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: person who works and entertainment but is more sort of

614
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: political and into journalism than anything. People have said like Wow,

615
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: it's it's just really risky, you know, the way that

616
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: you're willing to just talk about everything. And what I realized,

617
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: I've never worried about coming off as scripted because my

618
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: social channels are my space for my own words, so

619
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: that's not possible. I'm like, a script is the thing

620
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: I say at work, someone else wrote it. But what

621
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: I realized is that kind of thing that you're talking about,

622
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: like not being more afraid of coming off scripted than

623
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: making a mistake. I am incapable of like living within

624
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: my own body and having the platform I have, Like

625
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: I can't exist in the world in the way that

626
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: I do without saying the things, because then I feel

627
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: like I'm just selling out the privilege of the megaphone

628
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: that I have, and it like keeps me up at night. Now,

629
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: how do you deal with, you know, the people in

630
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: your mentions or in your field criticizing just don't care

631
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: they're evil evil Some of them are actually evil people.

632
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: Some of them, like you know, I think a lot

633
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: of people would make the assumption that I just want

634
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: to talk to people who think the way that I do.

635
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: I actually really enjoy sitting and having critical debate about

636
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: issues and I like to talk to people who don't

637
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: believe in the things that I believe in, so long

638
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: as their belief systems are not rooted in hatred of

639
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: other people, because like for me, it's like that's that's

640
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: my council culture, where I'm like, oh, you think other

641
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: people deserve to die? I can't. We have nothing to

642
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: talk about, but you know we can. We can debate

643
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: fundamentals and ideas and you know, fiscal responsibility and policy

644
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: and great. I mean, but I've had to learn that

645
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: there is an assumption because when people see you as

646
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: a two dimensional human, you know, they see you through

647
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: a screen. They forget that you're a human being who

648
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: can believe in many things at the same time has feelings.

649
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: Shocker that there is this sort of assumption that you

650
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: think you're infallible and that you think you're always right.

651
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: And I've had to get very clear on explaining my

652
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: convictions versus versus an assumption which I don't have that

653
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: I know everything. I'm deeply convicted about right and wrong,

654
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: and we'll fight for it. But I'm always also willing

655
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: to learn, and so I try to have forward facing

656
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,919
Speaker 1: conversations about things that I do learn about ways that

657
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: I have entered into spaces and learned how to advocate

658
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: more deeply, ways that I've had to broaden perspectives. And

659
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: I think it's some version of that conversation of like

660
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: getting real about what you don't know and being willing

661
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: to own that you'll probably make a mistake, being willing

662
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: to say to people like, Hey, I'm going to come

663
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: in here and work on this problem that's really complex,

664
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: and I'm probably gonna sunk up. And if I do,

665
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: please be cool enough to let me know and tell

666
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: me how to learn, how to do better, how to

667
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: how to get deeper. That that has been I think

668
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: the most sort of teaching experience for me. It would

669
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: be nice if we all sort of made space for

670
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: public figures to do political figures to do better. Yeah. Yeah,

671
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: And it's weird to me that there's this thing of

672
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: the first time you screw up, it's over forever, and

673
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: the and the double standard is also so weird to me, Like,

674
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about one of the best men

675
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: I think who's ever lived, Like Barack Obama is a

676
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: special human being. He is a special, incredible human being,

677
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: and like he got dragged over the coals for wearing

678
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: a tan suit, Like why, what? What is happening? And

679
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: now you see what's going on, and there there's there's

680
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: this unevenly waited scale for some reason, because it's like

681
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: people who were good, we hold to these ridiculous standards,

682
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: and then people who are bad, We're like, yeah, but

683
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: they're bad, so we expect them to funk up all

684
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: the time. And I'm like, but except what about when

685
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: it's affecting everything in the world. Yeah, I think it's funny,

686
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: like not a fashion choice, like our future. I remember

687
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: after the convention speech, so it's running free election. We

688
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: work on the speech. He delivers it at the convention.

689
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton had gone the night before. Bill Clinton delivered

690
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: a fantastic speech in defensive Barack Obama's record that was

691
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: sort of the speech that i'veon remembered. And Obama goes

692
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: the next night. It gives the speech, and we get

693
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: some bad reviews for the speech. And you know, we

694
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: love criticizing the press, you know from our podcasts, and

695
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: we did in the White House. And so we fly

696
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: out of North Carolina the next day. We're on the

697
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: plane and we're all complaining about press coverage of the speech,

698
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: and I keep going because I'm like yelling about Politico

699
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: because that's what I did back then, And and I'm

700
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: going on and on and on. At one point, Obama

701
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: looks at me and he's like, hey, man, how do

702
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: you think I feel? He's like, I wake up every

703
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 1: single day knowing that at least half of this country

704
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: thinks I'm doing a shitty job, and a bunch of

705
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: them don't like me. He's like, and it sucks, because,

706
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: but you know what, I'm President United States, And at

707
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: some point leadership is learning from criticism, seeking it out,

708
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: seeking out of their viewpoints. But then you've got to

709
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: actually make the choice and let the chips follow where

710
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: they may. And that's he goes, and and you just

711
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: gotta keep moving forward and making these decisions, like if

712
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: a decision comes to my desk, the desk of the

713
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: President United States, it means that it was such a

714
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: difficult decision, then no one else in the entire federal

715
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: government or maybe the country could have made the decision.

716
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: And so often I'm left with two bad options, But

717
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: why to decide which option is worse than the other option?

718
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: And no matter what I choose, I'm going to get

719
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: a lot of criticism and you He's like, you have

720
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: to learn from the criticism and be open to it,

721
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: but you can't let it paralyze you. And you can't

722
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: worry about what everyone says about you all the time.

723
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: You just got to keep moving forward, knowing that you're

724
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: doing the best you can. Hillary Clinton, that says that

725
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: great quote, take criticism seriously but not personally. Oh I

726
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: haven't heard that, but that's a great talk about, you know,

727
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: criticism for existing. And I love that. To take it,

728
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: To take any criticism you're met with seriously but not personally,

729
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: is I think, such a good piece of advice. And

730
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how wild it must be. And it

731
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: is interesting too, you know now, I think, especially more

732
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: on the left, you see like this hypercritical analysis of

733
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: every decision everyone's ever made. And I'm always like, hello,

734
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: they had to make a choice, Like there was an

735
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: A and a B and you're mad ab A and

736
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: those people over there mad about B, but there was

737
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: no C. There was no option C or D. And

738
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: I think we forget, to your point the immense amount

739
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: of pressure that leaders are often put under. And I

740
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: do this because now that I'm out of the White House.

741
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: I've gone back and tried to look critically at every

742
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: decision that Obama made, and there are some decisions that

743
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: you know, so there were mistakes. It was he got

744
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: criticism beyond the tan suit that he deserved a time,

745
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: but when you really dig into it, you're like, well,

746
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: we could either have done this which people didn't like,

747
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: or we could have done this other thing that people

748
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: really wouldn't have liked, you know. And sometimes you're also

749
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: governing within the constraints of a system where your president

750
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: and you don't have a magic wand you know, and

751
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: I think that's partly what we're all relearning now. I mean,

752
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: one worry I had is even when Obama was elected

753
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: is that it was sort of transactional view of democracy, right,

754
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: which is Barack Obama comes along, he's exciting everyone, he's

755
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: inspiring all these young people come out to vote for

756
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: the first time. And the belief was, all right, I'm

757
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: gonna give you my vote, and then I'm gonna go

758
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: back to my life, and you're going to go to

759
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: the whitest and you're gonna fix everything and you're going

760
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: to deal with it. And that's and I did my

761
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: part and now you go do your part. And I

762
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: hope what people are now realizing is that's not how

763
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: politics works at all, Because yes, Barack Obama could have

764
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: focused more on down ballot races. Yes he could have

765
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: done more to build up the party infrastructure, could have

766
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: done more to campaign on his priorities while he was

767
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: in the White House. He getting all these things, for sure,

768
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: But government doesn't work. No president can succeed unless there

769
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: is a country of three d plus million people who

770
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: are willing to be active in politics and keep pushing

771
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: every single day. We have to be actively. And that's

772
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: and no matter who we elect next time, if it's

773
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: not Donald Trump, like that democratic president, even even if

774
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: that democratic president has democratic Senate, democratic House, we still

775
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: have to be paying attention every day. We still have

776
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: to be knocking on door. Because so many of the

777
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: systems are broken, that so many of the policies are broken,

778
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: We're going to have so much to clean up. I mean,

779
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: the fact that President Trump just opened up uranium drilling

780
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: in the Grand Canyon, and like the fun is what's happening.

781
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: You have to pay attention to everything. You have to

782
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: pay attention everywhere. And and so I think and It's

783
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: not just because the systems are broken either. It's that

784
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: is the price of living in a democracy, in a

785
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: country of three million people, right, it is messy, and

786
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: people don't agree, and people come from different backgrounds and

787
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: they have different beliefs, and a lot of them are

788
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: acting in now that we're seeing a lot of them

789
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: are acting in bad faith. But a lot of people

790
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: we disagree with are acting in good faith, and they're

791
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: just trying to get stuff done. And the question is

792
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: how do we sort of come together and have patients

793
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: at least with our allies, you know, and and work

794
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: to persuade each other and operate. I think out of

795
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: a little more grace for people. Grace is a big

796
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: one's not today, not a lot, and it's really become

797
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: my biggest kind of priority, you know, as a person

798
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: whose natural tendency is to like Joan of arc Ship,

799
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm just like, let's go, you know. I really, in

800
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: the last couple of years have had to reassess the

801
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: way that I behave in my personal community versus the

802
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: way that my opinions can I would I would imagine

803
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: feel in a in an outward community where that sort

804
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: of tenderness and long forms, you know, six hour dinner

805
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: conversation to pick apart these ideas that doesn't exist on

806
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: the Internet, and I went, oh, I have to figure

807
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: out how to bring some of my natural desire for

808
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: grace and tolerance into the way that I communicate in

809
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: this space that, by nature is more short form. And

810
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 1: that was part of the reason to where I went, Okay,

811
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm a s little learner sometimes I've

812
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: learned when it comes to things I should be doing.

813
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: And I think that's why I finally years into people

814
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: being like, you need to do a podcast, I was like, Okay,

815
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean it took me a long time

816
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: to learn that. Now when I have an opinion to

817
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: offer that might be a little nuanced or complicated, instead

818
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: of paying up the phone because I'm on Twitter all

819
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: day long, instead of tweeting it, which I know is

820
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: gonna be a problem because no matter, Twitter doesn't do

821
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: nuance or subtlety. I'm like, what I do have a podcast.

822
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: I can just talk about the podcast and you can.

823
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: And it's like, I don't need to be posting all

824
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: kinds of opinions on on Twitter every day because the

825
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: fights don't do anyone any good. The debates don't really

826
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: do anyone any good. You can do that somewhere else,

827
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: like in person. You know, yeah, I think it's a

828
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: great resource for articles for sharing for same but I yeah,

829
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: I'll write a long form Instagram post that I'm I

830
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: generally am going through them and changing every word and

831
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: to an ampersan trying to get like every extra character.

832
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: People are like, you really write long things. They're I'm like, well,

833
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: you should listen to my podcast, but but yeah, they're

834
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: they're just does need to be more nuance and attention

835
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: to detail and giving people a group, giving people a

836
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: break people, you know, let people up off. The lot

837
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: of people are just trying and they should be open

838
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: to criticism. But if someone's trying and someone is trying

839
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: to act in good faith, you know, put yourself on

840
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: their shoes, give them a little break, and then it's

841
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: still criticize the person if they need to criticize, but

842
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: don't necessarily make it personal. Don't go after people's motivations

843
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, I think that that's a I

844
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: think we all do a little better, you know what,

845
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: You and I should just run like something. But we're

846
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: like guys, if you're going to enter into this space,

847
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: this is how we're going to do it. We're going

848
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: to make everybody nice. Like in my head now I'm

849
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: writing a show where like a bunch of angry political

850
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: people go to a therapy which we're the teachers. It

851
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: would be really fun, the Okay, So as we talk

852
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: about how to write and communicate and and be graceful

853
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: and nuanced and critical. God, I love critical thinking and

854
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm scared we're not teaching it to people anymore. But

855
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 1: that's a separate conversation. All of those ideas do come

856
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: back to great oration to speech writing. And You've mentioned

857
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: a couple of Barack Obama's speeches, the two thousand four

858
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: d NC speech and his speech on race and his

859
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve speech. Is there not just his um

860
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: and obviously those are highlights, but is there a historical

861
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: or a recent speech that really just stands out to you?

862
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: Is there something that kind of like rings the dinner

863
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: bell for you? It's pretty uh depressing that there's not

864
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: a recent one. There might have been one that impressed

865
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: me that I'm just it's sort of skipping my mind

866
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, my I think my favorite speech

867
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: of all time is Robert F. Kennedy's speech at the

868
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: So well, there's two parts of it. Really. There's the

869
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 1: speech that he gives, the impromptu speech that he gives

870
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: the night that King is assassinated, which he just sort

871
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: of does from a few notes in the back of

872
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: a truck. And then the next day he goes to

873
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: I believe it's the City Club of Cleveland and he

874
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: gives what's sort of known now is the Mindless Menace

875
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: of Violence speech, and it's just it's such a deeply

876
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: human speech sort of about our connections to each other

877
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 1: and how those connections are frayed. And you can find

878
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: a lot in that speech that sort of speaks to

879
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: some of the challenges that we have today that we've

880
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: had since then that we've never really overcome. Um. But

881
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: it is it's so poetic and inspirational and so very

882
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: a political in many ways, but also fundamentally about how

883
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: we all live together, which I guess is politics. Um,

884
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: but it's just I would go I go back and

885
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: read that, you know, every once in a while, just

886
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: for inspiration, and also too, you don't realize, Okay, that's

887
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good speech. Would be nice that people

888
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: give speeches like that today, Right, that's got to be

889
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: a good It's like, it's like the version of the

890
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: poster on your wall when you're a teenager of your

891
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: favorite show, but you're like, that's my poster speech. And

892
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: as an Obama speech trader, we we looked at a

893
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: lot of King speeches and sermons and which I find

894
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: I've read like books and books about Dr King's speeches

895
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: and sermons, and I think that they are some of

896
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: the most moving oratory because he uses religious and spiritual language.

897
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: He hearkens back to the Founding and the Founding ideals

898
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: and the Founding documents and sort of posits in America

899
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: and an American ideal that we haven't reached yet clearly,

900
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: and talks about striving towards that ideal. And in that

901
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: way sort of he has sort of a rhetorical style

902
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: that is inviting, inviting everyone and to join a movement,

903
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: as opposed to saying it's us versus someone else, right,

904
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: it's us versus hatred. But anyone can be part of

905
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: this movement. Anyone who wants a chair considered the stage.

906
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: That's right if you, if you believe in and want

907
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: to fight for justice, and so I've always been very

908
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: inspired by most things that Dr king Is said. I

909
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: love that. So I just had a moment too because

910
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: I realized, you know, we get into the the stuff.

911
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: And then I haven't asked you yet because most people

912
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: haven't ever been there talked to us about the White House.

913
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: I remember my first time walking into the White House

914
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: after President Obama was elected and like I lost my ship.

915
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: It was the I mean a couple of times, um,

916
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: but it was just it was the coolest, wildest, like

917
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: the first event that they threw that I was invited to.

918
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: And then ironically, in the same year, I went back

919
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: and had a meeting in the Roosevelt Room talking about

920
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: some policy that I was helping advocate for, and I'm

921
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: sitting with you know, Tina Chen, who was Mrs Oboy's

922
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: chief of staff, and we wanted them to get on

923
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: board and they did and they're the most incredible women.

924
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: But I was just like, what is happening? Like what

925
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: is happening? It was such a crazy experience for me,

926
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: and you spent so many years working with him, and

927
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: like you were just in the White House, like what

928
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: talked to people who have never remember the first day.

929
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: The first day we all walked in there. Well, it

930
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: was like the end of the first week. Obama invited

931
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: a lot of us have been on the campaign, which

932
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: is most of the communications, press, speech running staff. We

933
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: had all been campaign people, invited us into the Oval

934
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 1: for the first time, and so we all walk into

935
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: the Oval and I just remember looking around thinking, wow,

936
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: we are all imposters, Like we should not including him, right,

937
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: because I I had known him before he became president.

938
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: He was like, so your imposter syndrome was just fired.

939
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: It was like, shouldn't someone else be in the Someone

940
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: was gonna say, like, why are we here, Like Barack

941
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: Obama's here, and all of us idiots that were on

942
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: his campaign, we're all like in our early twenties and

943
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: thirties at the time, and it's just it's really bizarre.

944
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: The West Wing itself is small and feels a little cramped.

945
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: It's weird, right, you walk into those rooms, like the

946
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: office is not that big, it's not that big, and

947
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the bigger rooms, and it's weird. He

948
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: was tiny. I was in the basement by the sort

949
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: of where the White House messes where everyone eats in

950
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: the situation room by the water cooler, and I had

951
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: no windows in my office, and you know, there was

952
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: no cell service there, so your personal phone didn't work.

953
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: You know, we had our White House email. I was

954
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: basically stuck there all the time. I was like I

955
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 1: would throw on a suit and tie to go sit

956
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: in a basement, windowless office and work for ten twelve

957
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: hours a day at a computer. And but it's just

958
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: you know, you never you never get tired of like

959
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: seeing famous people and dignitaries walk through the White House.

960
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: I remember after I think it was some disaster that happened,

961
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: some natural disaster that happened, and Bill Clinton and George W.

962
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: Bush did did an event with Obama to sort of

963
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: like raise money and just watching like three presidents walk

964
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: around in the White House. What is happening here? And

965
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: they're just shooting the ship and You're like, what's going on?

966
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 1: I also was I was getting I got dinner once

967
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: at the mess and it was like seven o'clock at

968
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: night and not a lot of people were there, and

969
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: I was just working late as usual. And as I'm

970
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: getting dinner out of the situation room, walks a tour

971
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,439
Speaker 1: and this tour was Jay Z and Beyonce, Oh my god,

972
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: and I'm just like I have my tray with my

973
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: chicken fingers on it and I'm just looking at them

974
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: like and that was that was cool? What a trap?

975
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 1: So there's like moments like that. I'm also in my head,

976
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: like I'm thinking about your basement office and you being

977
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: stuck in there and there's no windows and you're in

978
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: a student tie, and sometimes probably like why am I

979
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: doing this? And so what's the because now I'm directing

980
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: the movie in my head were like, you know, the

981
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: young speechwriter like tightens his tie and gerhabs the pages

982
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: and runs up the stairs to the Ouble office to

983
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: tell the president like how does it work? Where all

984
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,760
Speaker 1: do you go up there? What happens? Usually for big speech?

985
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: For big speech, you'd try to get time on his

986
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: schedule to be able to go meet with him and

987
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: talk about the speech. And so I'd go into the

988
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: oval with whichever other writers were working on the speech,

989
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: and you know, the communication staff, the political staff, policy staff,

990
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: where we need to be there. We'd sit and chat

991
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 1: with him for a half hour about what he wanted

992
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: to say. I type every single word that he said,

993
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: try to get an idea, go down back to the

994
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: office and talk with the other speech writers about how

995
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: we were going to write the speech, get research from people,

996
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: get all that kind of stuff, and then it's like

997
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: a pretty lonely existence writing a speech. You know, like

998
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: if anyone had ever done a document like A day

999
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 1: in the Life of me at the White House, most

1000
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: of it would have just been like me at my desk.

1001
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: Do you listen to music while you write? Distract It's

1002
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: a little distracting, which I always hate that because I

1003
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,439
Speaker 1: love music, but I can't. I can't write and listen

1004
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: to music at the same time. I can't listen to

1005
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: music while I'm prepping scripts either, but I make soundtracks

1006
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: for projects and characters that then like that becomes my thing.

1007
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 1: On my way to work. There's songs that will remind

1008
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: me of like, oh, yeah, that's when I was working

1009
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: on that speech. Because which one sticks out? I can't.

1010
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember it now. It's when it comes on

1011
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 1: like everything is actually jizzy and bend, yeah, right, exactly, no,

1012
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: And then you know he would call you up so

1013
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 1: he would then edit the speech at night. Sometimes he'd

1014
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: say up to like one two in the morning. Sometimes

1015
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: they were light at it. Sometimes he would take out

1016
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: his yellow legal pad and just like write pages and

1017
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: pages that he wanted to add to the speech, and

1018
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: then he'd call you into the oval the next day

1019
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: to go over the edits, or if it was you know,

1020
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: late at night and there was a big speech the

1021
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: next day, sometimes he'd be in the residence and so

1022
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: I'd walk over to the residents and meet him there,

1023
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: and he would like sit with me and sort of

1024
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: go over the speech there. The only sort of frantic

1025
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: speech processes are like when we're on the road, you know,

1026
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 1: and especially on like a foreign trip. We were like

1027
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: minutes away from not having finished the Nobel Peace Prize

1028
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: speech in time when we were in Oslo, because we

1029
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: were rewriting the entire speech on the flight to Oslo

1030
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: overnight and we landed. He was giving the speech in

1031
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: an hour, and so we were like last minute making

1032
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: edits on the plane. I was like sending edits into

1033
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: the prompter as he was walking up on stage. That

1034
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: was the closest we got to not having a speech.

1035
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: So there are situations like that where either news breaks

1036
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: or there's some big event and things get really harried

1037
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: and crazy, and then it does seem like a West

1038
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: Wing episode what happens when some huge event goes down,

1039
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: and like he's got to be in front of a

1040
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: camera in sixty minutes. I was lucky because Ben Rhodes,

1041
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: my speech rating partner in crime, was sort of the

1042
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: foreign policy national security speech writer. So usually when there

1043
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: was like a breaking news speech that needed to be written,

1044
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: it was because something happened in the world, and so

1045
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: Ben would take care of it. And you were like, ha, right, exactly,

1046
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: like when like Ben knew about the Bin Laden operation

1047
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: or was brought in early enough to write the statement,

1048
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: and so I, you know, I only knew when I

1049
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: on my BlackBerry said like remarks of the President on

1050
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, Sam bin Lad and Ben's like, does anyone

1051
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: have any edits to this? This is happening, Oh my god.

1052
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: So but you know, I remember when Senator Kennedy passed away,

1053
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: and it happened I think in the middle of the night,

1054
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: and I think I got a call from the sitting

1055
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: room at like three in the morning to let me

1056
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: know that, you know, Kennedy had passed away and we

1057
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: need a statement in the morning. The president need to

1058
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: go before the cameras so that happens. You get like

1059
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: woken up at odd hours of the night. If there's

1060
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: some kind of news event that needs a speech. Is

1061
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: there a special phone for that or like a peeper. No,

1062
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: it's just it's at the time my black phone on. Yeah,

1063
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: I just have to leave my phone, yanks. I keep

1064
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: my phone on silent twenty four hours a day. See

1065
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: I do that now. And I had I remember when

1066
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: he won the Nobel Prize. When it was announced that

1067
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: he won. I remember I had my phone in my bedroom,

1068
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: looked at it, took a shower. When I came out

1069
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: of the shower five minutes later, they were like fifty

1070
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: emails on my phone. I was like, what happened? And

1071
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: it turned out, Hey, they announced that he won the

1072
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: Peace Prize and they're like, well, he needs to speak

1073
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,919
Speaker 1: in the Rose Garden in a couple in like an hour,

1074
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: ran into work, like three of us huddled over a

1075
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: computer trying to like bang out. You live within running

1076
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: distance to the White House when you work there? Did?

1077
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: I would usually drive, but I could walk to the

1078
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: White House about ten minutes. I was pretty close, which

1079
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: is good. What color was your pass? Do you have

1080
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: a blue one? I got to chat with the Jessica yelling,

1081
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, White House press guard and she was like, yeah,

1082
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: you get a blue pass And I was like, that's

1083
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: so cool. Okay, So what what would you say from

1084
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: that time? What are you most proud of that you

1085
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: guys got to do together? You know, I think the night,

1086
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: the night the healthcare passed was probably the proudest moment,

1087
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: because you know, I cared about that issue for a

1088
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: long long time, and we had campaigned on it and

1089
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: then it was, as everyone knows, a quite a struggle

1090
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: to get it done. And you know, there was a

1091
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: moment in that fight when Ted Kennedy passed away and

1092
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: we lost that Senate seat to Scott Brown Massachusetts, and

1093
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,479
Speaker 1: we thought, you know, public opinion is against this bill.

1094
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: The Republicans are against this bill. We don't necessarily have

1095
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: the votes in the Senate to do this. We don't

1096
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: know what's gonna happen. And some of his advisors, Obama's advisors,

1097
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: told him pull the bill. If you press forward with this,

1098
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose reelection. You should have a slim down

1099
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: version of this bill, maybe just expand medicaid a little bit,

1100
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: have some kind of patience Bill of Rights, and just

1101
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: take a half victory and go home. And he looked

1102
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: around and said, you know what, I didn't come here

1103
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: to put my approval ratings up on a shelf and

1104
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: admire them. I came here to get stuff done. If

1105
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: passing the Affordable Care Act makes me a one term president,

1106
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: and so be it. I think I should get this done.

1107
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: I just love him so much, I know, And and

1108
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: so when he when he passed it, and when he

1109
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, because that took courage, and Mike actually cry.

1110
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: It took it took courage, and when you passed it,

1111
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: you felt like, Okay, this is this is all the

1112
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: work that we did at this point to get elected

1113
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: to get that done. Like it. It's worth something, you know,

1114
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: And we're going to make other mistakes, and we're gonna

1115
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: have other losses. We're not going to get other things done.

1116
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: And you know, even the Affordable characters we all know

1117
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: it was far from perfect. But that's twenty million people

1118
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: with health and charms that didn't have it before. That's

1119
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: a big deal. It's the beginning. And to your point earlier,

1120
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, when there's three million people, our job is

1121
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: to figure out what does the best for the most people.

1122
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: How do we defend community? How do we define community?

1123
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: And our country is meant to be our community? And

1124
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: when people get personicity about some of that stuff, I'm like,

1125
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: the benefit it doesn't it doesn't have to start perfect.

1126
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: Perfect is the enemy of good. You know, we're never

1127
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: going to get anything done if we're waiting for the

1128
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: perfect bill, the perfect thing. We should do it and

1129
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: learn from it and continue to better it. In any arena,

1130
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and and and fight really hard, and

1131
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't. I'm not an advocate of

1132
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, trimming our sales and trying to start by

1133
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: proposing something that seems like a compromise and all that,

1134
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, all the complaints that a lot of folks

1135
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: on the left have. But I think you you fight

1136
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: really hard for the most you can get, but then

1137
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you have to be

1138
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: willing to say yep, I mean like Obama did with

1139
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: the A C A. You have to be willing to

1140
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: go forward even when it could cost you politically if

1141
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: you believe in it. But then you also have to

1142
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: take whatever you can get and then live to fight

1143
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: another day on a lot of issues. So what what

1144
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: was it because obviously this is like a pretty wild ride.

1145
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: You're having this amazing time, and then you were ready

1146
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: to be done with Washington, but he was still in office.

1147
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: It was it was hard. Did that look like? You know?

1148
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: I had been doing campaigns or the White House for

1149
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: ten years at that point, since the day that I

1150
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: left college. I had no other I had no other

1151
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: life besides campaigns, the Senate office, and the White House.

1152
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: And that takes a toll on you. You know, my

1153
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: twenties were all that was just working all the time.

1154
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: You weren't like partying and probably dating and like socializing.

1155
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: Not yeah, not in like stable relationships. And at that

1156
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: point I had met my now wife, and I thought

1157
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: to myself, like, you know, if I want to have

1158
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:47,919
Speaker 1: a normal, stable relationship and sort of like do other

1159
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: things with my life, I probably should leave now. And

1160
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: I also thought he deserves sort of a fresh writer, right,

1161
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: Like he deserves someone who has some new ideas and

1162
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: new phrases and new sentences. Like I remember when I

1163
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: was working on the second inaugural, it was like one

1164
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 1: of the hardest speeches I had done, because we just

1165
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: did this whole reelection campaign. He had a stump speech

1166
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: at a convention speech, and then it's like, now he

1167
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: needs an inaugural address again, and I'm like, I have

1168
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: nothing else to say. I don't know what else. I

1169
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: have been doing this for eighty And it's when it's

1170
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: like when really good show runners and their shows and

1171
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,919
Speaker 1: their shows are still good instead of like eking out

1172
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: another couple of years. But it's funny. We had been

1173
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: we had been in l A for some kind of

1174
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: fundraising swing and on the flight back, I told him.

1175
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: He was like, so you you always love when we

1176
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: go to l A. And you know, you always talking

1177
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: about like do you want to be like a screenwriter?

1178
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: Is that what you want to do? And I was like,

1179
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,439
Speaker 1: someday I thought, you know, maybe I want to write

1180
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: a pilot or write a screenplay. And I told him,

1181
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,959
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm actually thinking that I might leave

1182
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,959
Speaker 1: and just sort of pursue other opportunities at some point.

1183
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: And it was so hard to tell him, but he

1184
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: was so understanding about it. And it's like, you know,

1185
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: you got through the re election and that's good. He's like,

1186
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: you know, as he said, as as your boss, I

1187
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: don't want you to leave. He's like, but as your friend,

1188
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: I understand why you should, so it's okay. Now. I

1189
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: was one of the first people of that crew to

1190
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: say that I was leaving. I think by like the

1191
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: time the seventh close Stafford told him after the relect

1192
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: that they wanted to leave. They probably didn't get off

1193
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: as easy, but he was. He was pretty cool about it,

1194
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: and I was and I was ready. I was just

1195
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: and then you moved here. And then then I stayed

1196
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: in DC for another year or two because I just

1197
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: met my wife and she was like, I'm not ready

1198
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: to move to l A right now, Like I just

1199
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: moved to d C. And then I started a small

1200
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: consulting firm with Tommy V. Tour and we were writing

1201
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 1: speeches and doing communications for nonprofits and people like that.

1202
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 1: And then at the same time, we were both writing

1203
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: a pilot for a television show. We wanted to write

1204
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: about a bunch of young people on a campaign in Iowa.

1205
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: Was all right, yeah, and we had no idea what

1206
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: we were doing. So we wrote this pilot and thought

1207
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 1: that we would come to l A and shop it around.

1208
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 1: I Love It had already been out here, he did

1209
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 1: sen We're like, well, I Love It came out and

1210
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: got a television show, so we should be able to

1211
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: do that too. So I moved out to Tommy moved

1212
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: to San Francisco. I moved to l A. We kept

1213
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: our consulting business. The pilot did not go anywhere, and then,

1214
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, I got really sick of consulting really fast,

1215
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: just because I love writing speeches and we had great

1216
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: clients because we got to pick and choose who we

1217
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: were writing for. But you know, it just wasn't the same.

1218
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: And I missed politics, and I missed being involved. I

1219
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: miss making a difference. And that was around the time

1220
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 1: that Bill Simmons, who I knew because he also went

1221
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: to Holy Cross and from Boston, said you know, why

1222
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: don't you do a podcast in my network about politics

1223
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: because I'm looking to have some political coverage in addition

1224
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: to sports and tech and culture and all the other

1225
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: stuff that we do so fight for. And I and

1226
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: and then eventually Tommy and Love it All started the

1227
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: pod cast with him, and it was like the first

1228
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: I hadn't even heard about podcasts before that. Really I

1229
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: heard Bills podcast, but that was about it. I wasn't

1230
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: like an avid podcast listener. And how is that? It

1231
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: was great? I mean, I was like, I don't think

1232
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna be any good at this. You know, we

1233
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,919
Speaker 1: just started shooting the ship about politics and it's sort

1234
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: of worked. And then, you know, obviously the show shift

1235
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: did a great deal between right after election because we

1236
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: thought we were doing a show that was just being

1237
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: pundits about politics, and then sort of Hillary losing made

1238
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: us all realize, oh, yeah, we're not out of this,

1239
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: and we don't want to be out of this. We

1240
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 1: have to be in the fight here, we have to

1241
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: be in it. And so what what would you say

1242
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: on the you know, obviously in the forward space you're

1243
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 1: having conversations on the podcast, but you're producing this thing.

1244
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 1: You're thinking about the impact you're making on the world.

1245
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: Happens and everybody gets rocked. What what about the sort

1246
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: of mission statement changed? Like? How did how did the

1247
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: way you thought about the podcast and the media brand

1248
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: real change? A couple of things. One, we you know,

1249
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: we always joke about this, but we're out of the

1250
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: prediction business, so we don't like to talk about what

1251
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: and we sometimes we're talking about what might happen, or

1252
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,759
Speaker 1: at least tell people the options the things that might happen,

1253
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: but we don't like to really predict. And you know,

1254
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: the mission of this company is of Crooking Media and

1255
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,719
Speaker 1: Pots of America is to inform, entertain, and inspire action.

1256
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 1: And the inspire action part is really key because I

1257
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: don't think there's a lot of media companies out there,

1258
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: certainly not on the left, that you know, tell their

1259
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: listeners and their audience every day, here's what you can

1260
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: do to change the world around you. Specifically, action is

1261
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: so important. It's very important. And I think, you know,

1262
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: we see everything we do here as a balance, like,

1263
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: if we do too much of the entertaining, then it's

1264
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: just sort of silly and it's not serious. If we

1265
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: don't do enough of it, then it's boring and dry.

1266
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 1: If we forget to tell people here's what you can

1267
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 1: do to change things, then we're just like every other pundit.

1268
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: So we do try to balance between all those, you know,

1269
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: those three goals in the mission statement. But yeah, I

1270
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,600
Speaker 1: just I think that after Trump won, there there's a

1271
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: lot of people, some people who have been paying attention

1272
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 1: to politics for a long time. There's other people who

1273
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: it's the first time they really started paying attention closely,

1274
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 1: and they were thinking to themselves, where do I go

1275
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 1: for information, What do I do now? How worried should

1276
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: I be? There's a million news stories a day that

1277
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: seem awful. Which one should I really care about? And

1278
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 1: how can I make an impact? And we decided that

1279
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: we would be, you know, a media organization that helped

1280
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: answer those questions, help serve as a filter because there

1281
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: is there's so much information out there that people are fatigued.

1282
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: It's exhausting, it feels stressful. The news by the way,

1283
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: they like model the news after actual cage matches, and

1284
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: it's like, what a hot mess? Well I have And

1285
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: I thought this about the media for a long time,

1286
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: ever since before I was in the White House. Even

1287
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: the act of watching the news. If you watch the

1288
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 1: network news, we watch cable, you're basically fed NonStop bad

1289
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: news about the whole world. This is bad. There's a

1290
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: hurricane here, this person died, here's a murder here, this

1291
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: bad political thing is occurring. And then like here's our

1292
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: commercial for you know, some lipat or drug, and there's

1293
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: like two old people in side by side bathtubs. Here's

1294
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: the weather that's going to be bad too, And now

1295
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: now we're done, we'll see you tomorrow. And it basically

1296
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: just tells you, like all the awful things that happened

1297
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: in the world, and doesn't it doesn't give you any

1298
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,560
Speaker 1: options to change it. And you know, I thought it

1299
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be great to have a media company where

1300
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: we talk about the awful things that are happening in

1301
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 1: the world seriously, but we actually give people a way

1302
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: out and where you can talk about good that's happening too.

1303
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: We can't turn away from what's bad. We can't, you know,

1304
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 1: act like ostriches and stick our heads in the sand.

1305
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 1: But it's also really important to highlight what good community

1306
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 1: work is being done, what incredible activism is happening, like

1307
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: the change that people are making and demanding in their spaces.

1308
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: That's not being pollyannish either, it's because that's why why

1309
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: would you keep fighting if you didn't have hope that

1310
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: it could work? And that hope comes from pointing out

1311
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 1: all the ways it's worked in the past and it's

1312
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: currently working today. Is the key, Like I have so

1313
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 1: much hope. I have a friend who is from Bears

1314
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: Ears and she lived in l A for a long

1315
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: time and she just moved home and she said that

1316
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: it was really watching all of the women get elected

1317
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: in the mid terms. She was like, if it's not me,

1318
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: then who you know? And she moved home. And one

1319
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: of the things that she's doing is work in Bears

1320
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: Ears because you know, Obama protected all of this incredible

1321
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,640
Speaker 1: land which deserves to be protected, and Trump undid it

1322
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: because he's like a five year old child who wants

1323
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: to burn everyone else's toys. And you know, and my

1324
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: friend is working with all of the elders, all of

1325
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:12,839
Speaker 1: the elder you know, wise women from like six different

1326
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: native tribes that live in Bears Ears, and she's helping

1327
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: activate you know, like ranchers to be like, no, their

1328
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: interests are our interests. And I'm just like, you give

1329
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 1: me all the hope. Like I get photos from these

1330
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 1: gatherings of these women, and I'm just like, I can't

1331
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: wait for this story to be out there in a

1332
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 1: bigger way, because this is what people need to see, Like,

1333
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: look what we can do if we if we really

1334
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:42,600
Speaker 1: invest in the right way, and we need to be

1335
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 1: motivated like that, how do you guys, Because you've talked

1336
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: a lot about like the difference between having an opinion

1337
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 1: and then being a propaganda machine. So I imagine that

1338
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: to make sure that you're talking about well informed and

1339
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: educated opinions here at Crooked Media, Like, how is there

1340
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: a mission statement? Is there kind of like a framework

1341
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: that you make sure things fit into and if they don't,

1342
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: they just don't get to be here. How do you

1343
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 1: kind of keep that line? It's pretty loose. You're like,

1344
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: it's it's a constant struggle, right, because it is very

1345
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: easy in the Trump era to scream about everything bad

1346
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: and scream about Republicans, and we often do that. But

1347
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: I also want to make sure that we are being factual,

1348
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,799
Speaker 1: that we are making an argument, that the argument has logic,

1349
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: that we are not forgetting that you should try to

1350
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:42,799
Speaker 1: persuade people to your view as opposed to just assume

1351
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 1: that they already have your view. And I always am

1352
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: trying to make sure we catch ourselves if we go

1353
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: too far down. They're like, let's rant about everything path

1354
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: and you know, we have a great staff will make

1355
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,719
Speaker 1: sure that all of our facts are straight. And if

1356
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: we make them a stay. Can we say something wrong,

1357
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 1: we admit it. You know, I'm sorry we screwed up there.

1358
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 1: That's fine. So that's that's what we try to do.

1359
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 1: But I do think I think, you know, persuasion is

1360
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: sort of a lost art politics these days. But then

1361
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:18,680
Speaker 1: I guess I wonder because obviously there's no speech is

1362
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 1: being followed in our current political I mean, arena, what

1363
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: do we call it? Cage match, circus nightmare. I'm going

1364
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: to be really positive as far, but like thoughts for you,

1365
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 1: especially with your background like Trump as an orator or

1366
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: as a babbler, I don't know what we want to

1367
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: call him, but like, why why is he successful? He

1368
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:50,400
Speaker 1: can't say words and he says things that are lies

1369
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 1: every day. I mean, he's told over ten thousand lies

1370
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: to the American public and then he says ship that's

1371
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:59,520
Speaker 1: just so stupid, Like you know, they took the airports

1372
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 1: and it's like there were no airports, bro, Like there

1373
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 1: were no planes. What are you talking about? So why

1374
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 1: is this working? I think it's working because so people

1375
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 1: give him a pass for all the airport should because

1376
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 1: they say, you know, they think about their own lives

1377
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 1: and they're like, I screw up, I I mispronounced things.

1378
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 1: It's fine, you know, that's what I'm not saying. That's great,

1379
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: But I think he so he is a a cable

1380
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 1: news savant who became president. He's like a cable news fan. Right,

1381
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 1: So if you've ever had like Twitter, right, something that

1382
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: at six oh six on Fox and at six eleven

1383
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: he's tweeting about it, and I'm like, oh my god,

1384
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,800
Speaker 1: and turn off the TV and do some work and

1385
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: like everything we were just talking about about how dark

1386
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: the news is, Like if you ever had a relative

1387
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: who you know, I've had grandparents like this to which

1388
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 1: is like watch the local news all the time, and

1389
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: then you see them and they're like, oh, just you

1390
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 1: gotta be careful. There was a double murder here and

1391
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: this was bad, and they become you become a critic

1392
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 1: of everything when you watch the news too much, right,

1393
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: And that's sort of what Trump does. Like he's very

1394
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: good at telling people or reaffirming to people what they

1395
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: think is bad about the world, what they think they're

1396
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: afraid of, what they think is dangerous out there, what

1397
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: they should be scared of, what they should be angry about.

1398
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 1: He's very good at channeling that for a lot of people,

1399
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 1: or introducing new things that people should be afraid of

1400
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: or angry about. It's so abusive, it's very abusive, and

1401
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: it's like it's it is it's what demagogues do, you know.

1402
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: And I don't think I don't even think he planned

1403
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: to be like this, right, Like, I don't think he

1404
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,679
Speaker 1: has this like secret fascist who has had this plan

1405
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 1: to take over the world. I think it is his

1406
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 1: personality is one of a demagogue, right, which is I'm

1407
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 1: going to go out there. He's he's a narcissist and

1408
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: textbook narcissists. But his ideas, I'm going to go out

1409
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: there and say what a lot of people are thinking

1410
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: about what's wrong, and I'm not going to And he's

1411
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 1: not one for solutions. He's just he's always like, yeah,

1412
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fix it this the is alone can fix it.

1413
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: And he I think he spoke to He obviously spoke

1414
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:13,839
Speaker 1: to racial resentment, he spoke to xenophobia, and he spoke

1415
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 1: to the frustration that a lot of people had with

1416
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: the political system not producing results for a long time.

1417
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: So how many years of the media saying that all

1418
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: politicians are a little bit corrupt in both parties and

1419
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 1: Washington is a broken place and special interest control everything,

1420
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 1: and politicians in both parties have run those ads, right,

1421
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 1: And so here comes Trump saying everything you know about

1422
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: everything you hate about politics, and you hate about Washington.

1423
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: I am outside that and I don't give a shit

1424
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 1: about those people. And I'm very successful. I'm rich. I

1425
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 1: can go in there and I can fucking shake things up.

1426
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 1: And that's why you get I mean, if you looked

1427
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: at the group of voters who went to the polls

1428
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,719
Speaker 1: in and said they dis like Hillary Clinton and disliked

1429
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, he won those voters by like ten fifteen points.

1430
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 1: They didn't like both candidates, but they wanted him because

1431
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 1: they thought he was going to be change and so

1432
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: I and but I think the silver lining there is

1433
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 1: now he's president, and he's been president for four years,

1434
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: and so what he loses when he doesn't what he

1435
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 1: can't have in which he was able to have in

1436
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, is I'm outside the system and I can

1437
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 1: go in there and fix things and shake things up,

1438
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 1: because now he's had four years to do it. And

1439
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: I think having to run on your record when he

1440
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 1: has a record like he does is a little bit tougher. Yeah. Well,

1441
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 1: when you're embracing dictators and spitting in the face of

1442
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: the intelligence community, I mean, the joke that that there's

1443
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,599
Speaker 1: this idea that conservatives are like pro law enforcement. I'm like, cool,

1444
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 1: because no one's ever been more disrespectful to law enforcement.

1445
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: And a lot of a lot of values and long

1446
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 1: health believes went out the window just so crazy. It's

1447
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 1: like the you realize that they haven't been values, they've

1448
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: been campaign slogans, and look to your point earlier, there

1449
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: are let downs, I think on both sides of the field.

1450
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I wish that the a c. A

1451
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 1: Had been a more comprehensive bill for people. I'm not

1452
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 1: like there's nothing happening with Barack Obama where I'm like, oh,

1453
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,799
Speaker 1: he embraced a dictator who murders people, Like he literally

1454
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,879
Speaker 1: gave a world leader a pass for executing an American

1455
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 1: journalist and cutting up his body, Like what how are

1456
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: we not talking about that? Well, look, and that's a

1457
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:32,640
Speaker 1: good Like if I asked, you know, Tammy Inventes, I'm like,

1458
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: if so. We had this relationship with Saudi Arabia, and

1459
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: we've had it forever, right where we've known that there's

1460
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: an autocracy and they don't do great things. But like

1461
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: for a while we were stuck with them because of

1462
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 1: oil frankly and because of like other Middle Eastern relationships

1463
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: and not wanting to startle awards and stuff like that.

1464
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: But it's like if Kaushogi had been killed by MBS

1465
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: when Obama was president, Like, I don't think we would

1466
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 1: be I don't know that we could be as extreme

1467
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 1: as people would want us to be against Saudi Arabia.

1468
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: But certainly something, certainly a lot more than this. Certainly

1469
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be having breakfast with MBS when he you know,

1470
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: the last foreign foreign summit that he was at, you know,

1471
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 1: like you just there's obviously political constraints for every president

1472
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 1: and disappointments for every president, but this is unique and different, dangerous. Well,

1473
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 1: we we do seem to forget that presidents have to

1474
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,759
Speaker 1: exist in the world that exists, not in the world

1475
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: that we want them to create for us. But yeah,

1476
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:33,440
Speaker 1: this is wild. This is a this is a wild

1477
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 1: It's just a wild thing to witness. I'm like, Wow,

1478
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: everybody who has ever said they believe in something has

1479
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,480
Speaker 1: apparently been lying. If this is going to continue, okay,

1480
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 1: how do we get back, do you think? Like, how

1481
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: do we pull back from the inane and re enter

1482
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:58,600
Speaker 1: an arena where thoughtful presidential speeches matter, where having a

1483
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: leader who inspires rather than a leader who instills outlandish fear.

1484
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 1: How do we how do we rein it in? You know,

1485
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: it's on, It's on every single one of us, and

1486
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:13,720
Speaker 1: we have to have to be paying attention. If we

1487
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,599
Speaker 1: paying attention and being involved, I really do believe. I mean,

1488
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: it's it's it sounds almost trite, but I think we

1489
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: have to in some ways the country gets the politics

1490
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,680
Speaker 1: and the government that we deserve, and I don't. I

1491
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 1: don't think that we deserve this right now, but it

1492
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: is a it should be a wake up call to

1493
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 1: everyone too. You know, be involved in politics is an

1494
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: every day struggle. Democracy is and everyday struggle, and that

1495
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: means everything from donating to candidates, to making phone calls,

1496
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: to knocking on doors, to pushing our leaders when the

1497
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 1: people we vote for aren't going far enough, aren't doing

1498
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 1: what we thought that they were supposed to do, pushing

1499
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 1: them harder on it. And that's all of us have

1500
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 1: to do. That speed down. I've got the sent on

1501
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: speed on the second traffic, I'm like, here we go.

1502
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: I make some calls and then I do think it's

1503
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 1: the attitude of you know what we're talking about earlier,

1504
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 1: which is being somewhat patient with each other, right, like

1505
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 1: sort of showing that grace that you're talking about, Like,

1506
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: I think all of us could use a little more

1507
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:24,639
Speaker 1: of that, And part of that is meeting people in person,

1508
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: talking debating this kind of stuff in person. Like I

1509
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: do think there's this sort of toxic online culture and

1510
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:34,559
Speaker 1: cable media and all that kind of ship that it's easier,

1511
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: it's faster, but it's not a substitute for a bunch

1512
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 1: of people getting together and organizing together and knocking on

1513
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: doors and being involved in politics. Organizers are my hero

1514
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:48,599
Speaker 1: to me too. And you know when someone when someone

1515
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 1: who's an organizer throws criticism at me, I'm I I

1516
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 1: listen and I want to learn from it because I

1517
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: know that that person has been in the arena and

1518
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 1: if even if we don't agree, I know that they're

1519
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: trying you. When like a random person who's you know,

1520
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: just not trying through somebody need to listen to it

1521
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 1: as much. But organizers are heroes, they really are. So

1522
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 1: you talk about paying attention and being informed when there's

1523
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 1: this much on fire, how do you, guys? I mean

1524
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: you as a person, But I'm also curious about how

1525
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 1: crooked media is an organization, Like, how do you keep

1526
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:26,799
Speaker 1: up with all of this? How do you make sense

1527
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,600
Speaker 1: of all of It's? I this is my problem and

1528
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: like on on my phone, on my twitter feed all

1529
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: day long, you know, just like constantly consuming news and

1530
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 1: it is it's all about trying to filter out what

1531
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: matters most, which I always think about, Like sometimes there's scandals,

1532
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 1: but you think, Okay, how many people are affected by

1533
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 1: this issue at any one time? And so like, is

1534
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: the census rigging scandal the sexiest scandal? Not really? But

1535
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 1: is it going to matter if we have a census

1536
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 1: under account and political power is shifted for a generation? Yeah,

1537
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 1: a lot. So we should talk about it. And how

1538
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: do we start telling stories around that that are interesting

1539
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: enough that they activate people who might have otherwise said

1540
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 1: like I don't care about the census. It's like no, no, no, no,

1541
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: you really need to care about the sense as well well.

1542
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: And look, a lot of what we're doing now is

1543
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:18,720
Speaker 1: is we branch out beyond Pods of America and we're

1544
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:20,920
Speaker 1: doing a lot of sort of like narrative style podcasts

1545
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,559
Speaker 1: and producing stuff like that. You know, we released this

1546
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:27,120
Speaker 1: podcast called this Land, which is about a Supreme Court

1547
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 1: case that could decide the fate of half the land

1548
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma and give it back to the tribes. And

1549
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,880
Speaker 1: this woman, Rebecca Nagel, who's journalist and Cherokee, she sort

1550
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 1: of wrote the story about this case. She had been

1551
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 1: the journalist on the case, and we said, let's do

1552
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: a podcast about how Native Americans have been treated in

1553
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: this country, how they lost so much of their land,

1554
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 1: what the country did to them, and which is important

1555
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 1: information for people to learn, but it's also told as

1556
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: a compelling story because we're waiting for the Supreme Court

1557
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:00,040
Speaker 1: to decide this case, and there were murders involved, and

1558
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 1: so outside of a murder mystery too. But like so

1559
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:06,639
Speaker 1: we're thinking about how can we produce more content, more

1560
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 1: stories like that that can sort of impart really important

1561
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 1: information but do it in a sort of an entertaining,

1562
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 1: compelling way. So when we talk about really interesting things

1563
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: that you guys are doing, I'm I'm kind of fascinating

1564
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:22,799
Speaker 1: because you all have started a couple of funds. What's

1565
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: that all about? So we have our Unifier Die Fund,

1566
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 1: which is a fund that will the money will go

1567
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: to the eventual Democratic nominee, and that basically we started

1568
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: this fund because there's this primary where there's a million

1569
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 1: people running for president. It is insane. It's insane. Who

1570
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 1: nights of initial debates, I was like, what is happening?

1571
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 1: Can Yeah, it's easier to count to people who aren't

1572
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 1: unting for president, and so, having been on campaigns before,

1573
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: what happens is when there's an incumbent president. The incumbent

1574
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 1: president just raises money all day long. The Republican national

1575
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 1: committees raising money all day long. They have, you know,

1576
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 1: more than a hundred million dollars on hand already. We

1577
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 1: know what these candidates are raising. They're raising million dollars.

1578
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 1: I feel like Jeff Bezos owes us like, shouldn't he

1579
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 1: just be like, whatever there are and c has, I'll

1580
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,680
Speaker 1: double it, just kind of check, bro. You could, you

1581
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't even notice it was gone. The problem is is, honestly,

1582
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 1: what that means. People can give unlimited contributions unfortunately to

1583
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 1: super PACs and committees and stuff like that, but what

1584
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:26,560
Speaker 1: the candidate themselves can control. There's obviously fundraising limits with

1585
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,560
Speaker 1: so all these candidates running for president are going to

1586
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 1: spend all their money battling it out with each other,

1587
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 1: and by the time we have a nominee, that person

1588
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 1: will have almost no money in the bank. And so

1589
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: the idea is, let's get a big pot of money

1590
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 1: so that we finally do have a nominee they just

1591
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:46,559
Speaker 1: get and that if you want to donate and you're

1592
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 1: still not sure who to donate to of all the

1593
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 1: primary candidates, this is a great fund to donate to.

1594
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 1: And we're probably gonna do similar fund. Were also we

1595
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: also have a jerrymandering fund too, called funk jerry Jerrymandering

1596
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, and so that is for or you know,

1597
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 1: the Virginia State legislature is up this I know, and

1598
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 1: so we could easily flip that there's like a couple

1599
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 1: of seats away from flipping. That's democratic control and and

1600
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,640
Speaker 1: we can enjoy men, right, Yeah, and we need to.

1601
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: It's bad news for everyone, is okay. And we just said,

1602
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: I mean, there's one million candidates like you and I

1603
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 1: could be running for president at this point. Who do

1604
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: you like? Yeah, it's honestly as I mean, we're not

1605
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 1: we're trying not to play favorites here cricket media, Like

1606
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 1: you could say five and it would still be even

1607
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 1: if you gave me, you know, trut Serremon asked personally,

1608
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:45,679
Speaker 1: I've never had a tough time picking a candidate until

1609
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 1: now because I have been impressed by a bunch of them.

1610
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 1: I've been really impressed with Elizabeth Warren's campaign too. I

1611
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 1: just think from a from a like a mechanics perspective

1612
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 1: of what you have to do to win an election. Message,

1613
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: paul police, organization, digital, all that kind of stuff. She's

1614
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 1: sort of nailing it um And I think I think

1615
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris is incredibly charismatic. She's tough as nails. She

1616
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: crushed it on the debate stage. So I'm you know,

1617
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 1: I've been pressed with her, pressed with Mayor Pete. I

1618
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: think he you know, we talked a lot about sort

1619
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:25,600
Speaker 1: of having the courage to say what you believe in,

1620
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 1: being yourself and putting yourself out there is vulnerable. And

1621
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: there he was on that stage saying, you know, I

1622
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: screwed up in South Bend. I didn't get it done.

1623
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You know, that's that's exciting. I have a

1624
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, I love Joe Biden because I worked with

1625
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:43,120
Speaker 1: Joe Biden in the White House and he's a good,

1626
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 1: decent man, and I think he has you know, his

1627
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,560
Speaker 1: campaign has had some problems, and he's had some problems,

1628
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 1: so I I don't you know, I have a personal

1629
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:53,840
Speaker 1: affection for Joe Biden. But we will We'll see how

1630
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 1: this campaign goes. You know, we did a document is

1631
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:58,640
Speaker 1: one of those moments where I embraced the grace and

1632
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm just gonna let you don't have

1633
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 1: to add to this one. And then you know, we

1634
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 1: did a documentary. Our first documentary at Cricket Media was

1635
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 1: about Betto Rourkes Senate race, and so we get to

1636
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: know him a little bit and you know, he's been

1637
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 1: struggling to break through in this race. But he isn't

1638
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:19,640
Speaker 1: earnest kind being. I did a bunch of fundraisers for

1639
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:23,520
Speaker 1: him in Chicago, hen't. He's a great guy. He's unbelievable

1640
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 1: and you know, he's He's an example of someone who's

1641
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 1: incredibly talented and I think hasn't been running as good

1642
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: of a campaign as he probably could well. And I

1643
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:33,680
Speaker 1: do hope that what winds up happening for him, Like

1644
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: I would love to see him get some real Senate experience.

1645
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 1: I would, and I would love to see him be

1646
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 1: elected to many offices in the course of his career

1647
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,559
Speaker 1: and I and I do think, yeah to your point, like,

1648
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that he's a bit green for this

1649
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: arena and that's okay because he's still adding some real

1650
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 1: integrity to the space at one point, and I think

1651
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 1: that's great. What I've told you know, every and paining

1652
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: candidate who's ever looking for advice, And do they all

1653
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 1: call you? No, not really, I just you. You made

1654
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 1: a face. You're like a lot of them, a lot

1655
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:13,600
Speaker 1: of them. That's cool. I would call you if I

1656
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: was running for Upice, I'd be like, I need to

1657
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:20,600
Speaker 1: ask you sixty seven questions. I'll buy you a coffee

1658
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 1: in this race or any race. And I've said this,

1659
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 1: I say this on the pot all the time. In

1660
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:30,000
Speaker 1: a field that is this large, this talented, this diverse,

1661
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: if you're running for president, you need to have an

1662
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 1: argument about why you, why now, and why are you

1663
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:42,759
Speaker 1: different than all the other candidates on that stage, What

1664
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 1: what unique qualities do you bring to the race at

1665
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 1: this moment in time, and why is it important at

1666
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:50,519
Speaker 1: this race at this moment in time. And that message

1667
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: has to be so sharp and so clear from the

1668
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 1: get go that you know, even people who are just

1669
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: casually paying attention to politics, can recite it and know

1670
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,200
Speaker 1: what you're abou out and you look at the field now,

1671
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:04,720
Speaker 1: whether you agree with or not with you like or not,

1672
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 1: everyone knows what Elizabeth Warren's messages, they know what she

1673
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:09,680
Speaker 1: stands for, they know what she's about, you know, the

1674
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 1: people to judge his generational change, that's his deal. He's

1675
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:15,720
Speaker 1: the young mayor, right, so like you sort of those

1676
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:17,439
Speaker 1: are two candidates that I think have sort of nailed

1677
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: the message part of it. And I think if you

1678
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 1: really want to be six and there's plenty of time

1679
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:24,680
Speaker 1: for other candidates to nail that too, but if you

1680
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 1: want to be successful, especially in the field this large,

1681
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:32,080
Speaker 1: you need to have those answers. Yeah, okay, last question,

1682
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: and we talked a little bit about this. You know,

1683
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: I think when when you have amassed some kind of

1684
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:42,960
Speaker 1: public success, there's a big assumption that you have it

1685
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,679
Speaker 1: all figured out, and in my experience, everyone's still trying

1686
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 1: to figure it out. Yeah, for sure. And that's why

1687
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: the podcast is called work in progress. So what in

1688
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:56,360
Speaker 1: your life? And it could be personal and professional, political,

1689
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:02,000
Speaker 1: it could be about your dog. What feels like a

1690
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,600
Speaker 1: work in progress to you right now? I think, you know,

1691
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: my mom always just to tell me everything in life

1692
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 1: is a balance. It's important to always have balance, strike

1693
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 1: balance in your life. And I think I'm still struggling

1694
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:22,759
Speaker 1: with that because I care a lot about politics. Sometimes

1695
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 1: I think I care too much about politics. Sometimes I

1696
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: am too involved in the news. I'm reading too much news,

1697
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 1: and I'm not paying enough attention to my personal life,

1698
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:34,200
Speaker 1: my friends, my family. Um So I do think figuring

1699
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: out that balance between caring and working on all the

1700
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: stuff that we were just talking about and also just

1701
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: sort of enjoying life, that's my work in progress. Yeah,

1702
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: you know, and I think it's you know, part of

1703
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 1: it is just I tell myself, well, we're in the

1704
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 1: Trump era and it's sort of all hands on deck

1705
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,800
Speaker 1: and what else are you gonna do? But then when

1706
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm having fun in a way from it and I'm unplugged,

1707
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,400
Speaker 1: there's always like feeling of guilt that like, I shouldn't

1708
01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 1: be having so much fun, I should be paying attention.

1709
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:09,439
Speaker 1: So you sort of go back and forth. I get that.

1710
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:12,600
Speaker 1: I think I'm starting to give myself a little bit

1711
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:15,400
Speaker 1: of grace when I do unplug and I'm like, I can't,

1712
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,519
Speaker 1: I can't do it every day, Like cell phones need

1713
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:23,439
Speaker 1: to charge. So if I'm a battery and we are,

1714
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:25,920
Speaker 1: we are these sort of like walking talking batteries right

1715
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 1: like you can run out. And so I've I've given

1716
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 1: myself a little more space finally to not feel that

1717
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:37,080
Speaker 1: guilt if I take a day or two days off.

1718
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 1: But then what happens is like on day three, I'm

1719
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 1: looking at everybody going, what did I miss? What's going on?

1720
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 1: Send me the best time articles? But I also love it.

1721
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 1: We went to Maine for the fourth and we were

1722
01:33:47,439 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 1: there for a couple of days and I sort of

1723
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:50,880
Speaker 1: I was like casually looking at Twitter, but I mostly

1724
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 1: with my phone. And then we get on the plane

1725
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:55,840
Speaker 1: to come back here and I like dive in because

1726
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 1: the pot is Monday, and it's like twenty minutes on Twitter,

1727
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,080
Speaker 1: and I was just like I felt more informed about

1728
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 1: my blood pressure was already on the rise. Well I'm

1729
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 1: back and a million things have gone wrong and everything

1730
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 1: seems awful, and here we go, here we go. But

1731
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm glad we're paying attention. I think

1732
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 1: it's important obviously, duh. I'm like the biggest super fan ever.

1733
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:24,160
Speaker 1: And you know, if you guys need a coffee person,

1734
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 1: I would come and do that just to hang out, Like,

1735
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:30,800
Speaker 1: what else do you need? Well? Thanks for thanks for

1736
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 1: coming by. Yeah for sure, this is fun to do. Thanks.

1737
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 1: This show is executive produced by Me, Sophia Bush and

1738
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:46,080
Speaker 1: sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our associate

1739
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 1: producer is Cate Linley. Our editor is Josh Wendish, and

1740
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:52,639
Speaker 1: our music was written by Jack Garrett and produced by

1741
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:55,559
Speaker 1: Mark Foster. This show is brought to you by Brilliant

1742
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 1: Anatomy