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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds.

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Speaker 2: And Trump VP contender Christy Nomes says there should be

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Speaker 2: no rape or incest exceptions for abortion. We have such

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Speaker 2: a great show for you today. Politico's Rachel Bade stops

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Speaker 2: by talking about the chaos and the Republican Caucus. Then

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Speaker 2: we'll talk to CNN climate reporter Bill Weir about his

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Speaker 2: new book, Life as We Know It can be stories

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Speaker 2: of people, climate and hope in a changing world. But

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Speaker 2: first we have the host of the Enemy's List, the

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Speaker 2: Wiki Project's own Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday and Mondays are for Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 4: They are for Rick Wilson. And therefore the great and

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Speaker 4: true love that we share of mocking a certain lumbering

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Speaker 4: orange criminal who spends much more of his time in

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Speaker 4: courtrooms than any normal person would desire.

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Speaker 1: This criminal trial has shown how bad politics' pundent brain is. Okay,

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Speaker 1: like the people who are sitting in a criminal trial

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Speaker 1: would help him.

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Speaker 4: There were a lot, Lolly, there were a lot of

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Speaker 4: people were like Trump's base will love this for him. Yes,

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Speaker 4: that's right, because his base is completely disconnected from human reality,

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Speaker 4: the idea that we're going to have weeks and weeks

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Speaker 4: and months and months of this and it's not going

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Speaker 4: to hurt him. Look, I get the natural desire not

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Speaker 4: to get twenty sixteen Again.

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Speaker 1: Twenty sixteen did not happen because Trump was prosecuted for

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Speaker 1: crimes he did.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, he got away with shit, and he got

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Speaker 4: away with stuff in sixteen that these days no one

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Speaker 4: would even consider the idea of ignoring it, even in

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Speaker 4: you know, the both sides sections of the media. This

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Speaker 4: is a guy who clearly is not in the position

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Speaker 4: he was in even a few weeks ago. And part

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Speaker 4: of it is because and I have this theory of

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Speaker 4: the case, there are two big things going on, one

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Speaker 4: of which is the court stuff, the other of which

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Speaker 4: is he can't pretend anymore that he's some sort of

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Speaker 4: like financial genius. His penny stock is cratering, he's out

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Speaker 4: of money, he's broke every which way. The whole illusion

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Speaker 4: of Trump right now has finally like faced up to

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Speaker 4: the reality of his shitty life. And it's bad. He's

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Speaker 4: in a bad place right now.

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Speaker 1: Rip I did say last week, you're teflon until you're

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Speaker 1: not right. You get away with it until you don't.

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Speaker 4: You were immune from all consequence until the moment consequence

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Speaker 4: comes and shows up. As they say in It's Unlooped Form.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that is like so clear about

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Speaker 1: when you look at Trump and you look at sort

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Speaker 1: of his behavior pattern is there is no other person politician, Democrat,

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Speaker 1: Republican for whom this works right, and it works Trump

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Speaker 1: probably because he was very, very famous and people didn't

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Speaker 1: really know his political background, so he was like a rorshack.

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Speaker 1: He could be left, he could be right, he could

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Speaker 1: be this, he could be that nobody knows because he

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Speaker 1: was a TV star. But this is something different, right,

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Speaker 1: This is something where it's like, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: we know him. We've seen his voting record, we've seen

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Speaker 1: his governing record, we know this guy.

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Speaker 4: Right, there's no more illusion of Trump. There's no more

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Speaker 4: there's no more imaginary version of Trump where they get

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Speaker 4: to say, oh, well, you know, the grown ups around

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Speaker 4: him will make sure that things will be so different

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Speaker 4: this time. No amage that no one's ever buying that

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Speaker 4: that cannot be sold to any rational person. No one

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Speaker 4: accepts that that construction any further because we have seen him,

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Speaker 4: we do know what he is, we do know what

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Speaker 4: he does. And the behavior in court in the first

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Speaker 4: week I think was very telling, the whining, the immaturity,

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Speaker 4: the oh, I'm so cold, you know, all this crap,

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Speaker 4: and is in the case of a couple of days

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Speaker 4: of unhappiness in court. And we're not talking like weeks

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Speaker 4: and months. We're talking about he's losing his mind after

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Speaker 4: a couple days in the courtroom. I think we are

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Speaker 4: watching Trump quietly decompensating at the moment, and it's going

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Speaker 4: to get I think, quite a bit worse in the

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Speaker 4: coming days and weeks, because Trump is pushing the judge's

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Speaker 4: limits And while the judge I think has been very

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Speaker 4: slow to react in some ways to Trump. There's no

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Speaker 4: unlimited scenario where Trump gets to keep threatening jurors. There's

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Speaker 4: no unlimited scenario where he gets to fart, fall asleep,

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Speaker 4: skunky people act like an a hole in court every

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Speaker 4: single day. None of that's a real scenario. And eventually

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Speaker 4: every judge in a case is going to say, I

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Speaker 4: get the celebrity status of this guy. But they also

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Speaker 4: are going to say, but that celebrity status doesn't mean

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Speaker 4: we have two systems of the law. This is a

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Speaker 4: man who has over and over again proven he will threaten, intimidate,

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Speaker 4: he will browbeat, he will attempt to suborn people. And

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Speaker 4: I think Mershawn is actually kind of of the BS

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Speaker 4: already and within the within the first week, the guy

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Speaker 4: is tired of the play acting and the Trump Show

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Speaker 4: and all the and all the garbage.

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Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely right. And I also think that

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Speaker 1: what you see is like he is really trying to

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Speaker 1: make sure that it's done right. Like he kicked someone

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Speaker 1: off the jury pool for having lied about having a

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Speaker 1: very minor criminal charge for pulling down posters conservative posters, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he realizes this is going to get appealed

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Speaker 1: a million times and be scrutinized, and so oh.

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Speaker 4: Of course he wants this case to be as bulletproof

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Speaker 4: as he can. Yeah, that speaks well of him. That

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Speaker 4: is what you want in a judge, what you want

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Speaker 4: in a trial. You want a clean case that isn't

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Speaker 4: going to get overturned, that isn't going to get thrown out,

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Speaker 4: and that doesn't have some sort of like mechanical or

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Speaker 4: structural defect in it that lets a guy like Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump walk free again again.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump will obviously want free you. Nope, he's not

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Speaker 1: going to jail for those. Very unlikely he'll go to

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Speaker 1: jail for this. But what's relevant and what is important

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Speaker 1: is will he be held accountable? And that is the

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Speaker 1: two hundred million dollar question, right it is.

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Speaker 4: I still have my deep skepticism of you know, any

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Speaker 4: system that lets Trump stay in the courtroom every day

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Speaker 4: and do this stuff. I have some skepticism that it's

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Speaker 4: going to work in that way. I do think he

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Speaker 4: has a kind of horrible power to get to people,

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Speaker 4: whether it's Jesse Waters getting a lot of whatever information,

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Speaker 4: or whether it's these rumors about all the usual Trump people,

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Speaker 4: like posting the names of jurors on telegram and discord

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Speaker 4: all this sort of behavior. I do think at some

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Speaker 4: point the judge will be obligated, in order to maintain

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Speaker 4: the sanity in the courtroom and in order to maintain

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Speaker 4: a trial that isn't decided by Trump being able to

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Speaker 4: intimidate or browbeat jurors. At some point I think he's

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Speaker 4: gonna have to at least put Trump in his in

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Speaker 4: a cell in the Metropolitan Correction Center for a couple

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Speaker 4: of hours and say, cool the hell off, and the

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Speaker 4: tweeting and the using the phone in the court room

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Speaker 4: and all that stuff. It's just a long running behavioral

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Speaker 4: pattern that I can't see how a judge tolerates that

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Speaker 4: over the length of this trial.

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Speaker 1: And that's going to really be the big question is

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Speaker 1: like how long can Trump behave badly?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: No, I think it is a key question. But I

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Speaker 4: will also say this, I think there's a part where

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Speaker 4: Trump maybe slightly overplaying it, this whole idea of my

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Speaker 4: people love me no matter what, and yeah, his people

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Speaker 4: do love him, but there's a point where it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: stop being a whining bitch. Stop being by acting like

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Speaker 4: this is the worst punishment anyone in history has ever received,

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Speaker 4: because it is not by any stretch of the imagination.

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Speaker 4: And as Trump continues to you know, I'm being persecute

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Speaker 4: and it's the deep state. Joe Biden's here personally running

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Speaker 4: the trial. The whining is just like it's not even

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Speaker 4: on Trump's brand. He's whiny, but he's not a whiner,

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Speaker 4: if that makes any sense. But right now he's just

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Speaker 4: like sniveling all the time.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that I have always argued with a

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Speaker 1: number of like other pundits about in twenty sixteen, he

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Speaker 1: really did run on like they weren't necessarily true, but

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Speaker 1: he had promises, and those promises were like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to bring back your cold jobs, something he couldn't do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to restore the economy. I'm going to

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Speaker 4: make great trade deals with Jina, you know all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were promises in there, right, And like as

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Speaker 1: much as I really did respect HRC, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was like I'm with her and he's with us, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you could see that there was a little bit smarter

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Speaker 1: messaging going on on his side. I mean, they were lies,

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Speaker 1: but they were smart, you know, it was smartly done lies.

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Speaker 4: I think that there was a degree to which America

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Speaker 4: was kind of to believe some of Trump's bs in sixteen,

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Speaker 4: and it was we had had this long period of

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Speaker 4: time where they had a black guy in charge. They

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Speaker 4: didn't like it. A lot of Americans, Republican and Democrat,

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Speaker 4: were very unhappy, feeling like from two thousand and eight

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Speaker 4: on the middle class was getting fed. And they weren't wrong,

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Speaker 4: by the way, in some real meaningful ways, but it's

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Speaker 4: stacked and its stacked, and Trump was sort of the

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Speaker 4: perfect avatar at the perfect moment for that attack. Now

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Speaker 4: I don't think he is that guy anymore. Even if

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Speaker 4: you make the argument that the economy is of, you know,

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Speaker 4: a hellscape, which I don't I disagree with. Even if

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Speaker 4: you make that argument, you know, the thing we used

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Speaker 4: to see before I stopped believing in focus groups back

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Speaker 4: in sixteen, before I decided that they were all just

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Speaker 4: lies we used to see in focus groups. He's a businessman.

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Speaker 4: He's going to run the country like a business. We

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Speaker 4: need a businessman who knows how to manage. And what's

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Speaker 4: the lesson they learned. They learned that that was the

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Speaker 4: biggest lie of all, that the Apprentice was a TV show.

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Speaker 4: Trump can't manage a waffle house. That Trump doesn't have

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Speaker 4: the ability to manage his own emotions for twenty minutes,

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Speaker 4: to say nothing of a country.

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Speaker 1: He cannot manage a waffle house.

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Speaker 4: That reset of people's perceptions of who Trump is, what

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Speaker 4: he can actually accomplish us, what they thought he could accomplish.

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Speaker 4: That is, there's a big delta there now and a

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Speaker 4: lot of people still voting for him are the resentment types.

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Speaker 4: You know, I just want to punish those lib hard

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Speaker 4: educated people. I don't like them. Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about something a little personal. Sure you

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Speaker 1: had a parent who was very trumpy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're getting past that a bit. Yeah, it's gotten

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Speaker 4: a lot better. It's not perfect, but I think I've

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Speaker 4: come to the conclusion. And the fever can break, And

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Speaker 4: in some weird ways, the fever breaks best after they've

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Speaker 4: bought into like the craziest part of it, in a way,

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Speaker 4: after they've bought into like it's all about the conspiracy

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Speaker 4: of the cannibal pedophiles. Once once you take that apart,

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Speaker 4: the whole thing starts to fall apart. Once you take

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Speaker 4: a part the Hillary Clinton was secretly there by George

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Speaker 4: Soros to take over the world and make us all

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Speaker 4: eat bugs and become Muslims or whatever lunatic fringe thing

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Speaker 4: there was. Once part of that breaks, and once part

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Speaker 4: of that breaks at the most absurd point, it does

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Speaker 4: become I think easier to say, Okay, well, the whole

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Speaker 4: thing was a lot, you know that, right. All the

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Speaker 4: artifacts of this insanity were always lies. None of it

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Speaker 4: was real. I'm starting to see that a little bit more.

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Speaker 4: And look, everybody has pride, and they get in a position,

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Speaker 4: even if it's an irrational one. They have pride about

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Speaker 4: their position, and it's hard to unclinch that fist. But

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Speaker 4: he's making it harder now for even his most fervent

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Speaker 4: supporters to pretend he's something he's not. They may still

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Speaker 4: support it, and they may still love him, but it's

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Speaker 4: harder and harder for them to pretend that he's not

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Speaker 4: just Donald Trump, that he's not just that guy. We

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Speaker 4: know who he is, we know what he is. We

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Speaker 4: know he's not this super negotiator. We know he's not

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Speaker 4: a business genius. We know he's not a particularly smart guy.

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Speaker 4: All those things are sort of increasingly obvious to people,

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Speaker 4: and it's harder to hold the lie in the same

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Speaker 4: place in your head and your heart that you might

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Speaker 4: have if it was just purely the partisan okay, yes

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Speaker 4: or no. People are realizing also that Joe Biden is not.

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Speaker 4: He has not plunged us into communism. Oddly enough, you

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Speaker 4: know that idea of Biden will We'll all be eating

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Speaker 4: bugs with Joe Biden not so much.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing about like picking someone like Biden is

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Speaker 1: that he's not very liberal. So what is good is

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Speaker 1: that you can reach out to, you know, the never

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Speaker 1: Trump Republican or really the very there's a huge part

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Speaker 1: of this country that's just the middle.

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Speaker 4: This country still has a lot of much more moderate

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Speaker 4: Democrats than our friends on the coasts like to sometimes

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Speaker 4: admit to themselves. A North Carolina Democrat outside of a

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Speaker 4: city is basically like a moderate Republican in New York.

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Speaker 4: But it's hard for them to admit that to themselves sometimes.

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Speaker 4: And I get it, just like it's hard for Republicans

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Speaker 4: to admit to themselves that not everybody in the country

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Speaker 4: believes that that Donald Trump is here to save us

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Speaker 4: from Klaus Schwab in the New World Order or whatever

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Speaker 4: the hell is in their fantasy bubble.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if Biden wins, which he may or he

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Speaker 1: may not, we don't know. It's two hundred days out.

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Speaker 1: You know, he certainly is running a very disciplined campaign

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Speaker 1: that does not involve being a criminal defendant.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, indeed, and you know, not being a criminal defendant.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to say this in English sometimes, but it

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Speaker 4: really is, you know, a political advantage to not be

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Speaker 4: a criminal defendant.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that anyone has with a straight face

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Speaker 1: told us and not even a nauseam that somehow being

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Speaker 1: a criminal defendant would help Trump is just so completely brainworms.

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Speaker 1: But he's running a very disciplined campaign and he really

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Speaker 1: is like there's a lot of dotting the eye. And

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Speaker 1: I was struck by that this week when the Kennedys

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Speaker 1: went to Pennsylvania with Biden and gave really good I mean,

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Speaker 1: I was surprised that really they gave really good speeches.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, only one of them is a

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Speaker 1: career politician. You know, all of RFK junior siblings basically

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Speaker 1: said they're voting for Biden and they disavow him. Not

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Speaker 1: even basically, they said we're voting for Biden, and.

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Speaker 4: They were aggressively direct about their belief that their cousin brother,

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Speaker 4: et cetera is a crank and that his presence in

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Speaker 4: the race will advantage Donald Trump. And I think the

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Speaker 4: more you point out to the soft Democratic voters and

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Speaker 4: some of these younger voters who are the people that

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Speaker 4: don't want Biden or Trump, that picking RFK Junior is

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Speaker 4: not selecting some shiny, young, interesting, moderate candidate. He's a nut.

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Speaker 4: He's a weapons grade kook. Across the board. When they

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Speaker 4: see that inverse validation of the family saying no, he's poisoned,

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Speaker 4: run run away. I think that is going to help

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Speaker 4: the president significant.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of meaningful whether you're having your siblings being like,

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Speaker 1: this guy sucks.

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Speaker 4: Right, This guy is a nightmare fuel who will elect

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump? Even if in the world that somehow Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden and Donald Trump were both killed by a meteor

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Speaker 4: the thought of that guy being president should still scare

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Speaker 4: the hell out of people because he's insane.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Rick Wilson, thank.

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Speaker 4: You, Yes, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Spring is here and I bet you are trying to

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Speaker 1: look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

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Speaker 1: new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

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Speaker 1: with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

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Speaker 1: and toe bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 2: Rachel Bead is a senior Washington correspondent and call op

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Speaker 2: of Playbook and author of Unchecked, The Untold Story Beyond

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Speaker 2: Congress's Botched Impeachments of Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics. My one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: congressional people. I mean, you are more than that, but

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Speaker 1: you are especially that I always think of Rachel Baid.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, Molly. I hope I number one on your list? Hello,

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Speaker 6: now you are number one?

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? You're absolutely no question when everyone

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Speaker 1: else close your ears. So I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you because I was like, we got to get Rachel

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Speaker 1: baid in here, because it's so interesting what's happening right

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Speaker 1: now in Congress, and because there's so much else, there's

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Speaker 1: so many other stories like happening in the Trump trial,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. We're not getting the pure, unadulterated craziness of

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Speaker 1: what's happening right now in Congress.

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Speaker 3: So can you give.

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Speaker 1: Us where we are, where we're going? What happened this week?

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Speaker 1: A little bit?

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Speaker 7: Well, sure, Bally, I mean the big headline of the

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Speaker 7: week was the Speaker Johnson finally, after months and months

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Speaker 7: and months of refusing to put this White House Born

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Speaker 7: Assistant supplemental on the House floor, he finally caved and

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Speaker 7: did it. And what exactly is this legislation? It is

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Speaker 7: money for Ukraine in their war against Putin, it's assistance

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Speaker 7: for Israel, assistance for Taiwan. And he ended up adding

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Speaker 7: a few sort of like not super conservative provisions, but

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Speaker 7: a couple of changes to what the White House wanted

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Speaker 7: to do in an effort to sort of appease Republicans,

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Speaker 7: and he tried to do that because a lot of

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Speaker 7: Republicans don't support your green funding anymore. So that's why

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Speaker 7: Johnson has sort of been sitting on his hands on this.

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Speaker 7: But above all of this, and above the sort of

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Speaker 7: headline of Johnson is finally going to.

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Speaker 6: Allow the House to pass this bill.

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Speaker 7: Is this notion that we could see a second historic

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Speaker 7: ouster of a speaker.

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Speaker 6: I mean, last fall, Kevin.

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Speaker 7: McCarthy was ousted, first speaker in American history to get

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Speaker 7: the boot. And now Marjorie Taylor Green, the mega Republican

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Speaker 7: from Georgia, she's teamed up with you know, now two

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Speaker 7: other Republicans to say Johnson, because he is working with

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Speaker 7: Democrats to pass this massively important bill for national security,

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Speaker 7: because he's working in a bipartisan manner, they're going to

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Speaker 7: try to oust him. And you know, it started with

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Speaker 7: Marjorie Thomas Massey, who is a sort of libertarian esque

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Speaker 7: Republican from Kentucky joined her and actually point blank told

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Speaker 7: Johnson in a closed door meeting, you will not be

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Speaker 7: speaker long.

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Speaker 6: You need to step aside. You need to resign.

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Speaker 7: On Friday, we saw another Republican, Paul Gosar, come out

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Speaker 7: and support their movement, and I actually caught up with

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Speaker 7: Massi personally in the hallway for about fifteen minutes about

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Speaker 7: his plan.

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Speaker 5: Here.

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Speaker 7: He tells me that more Republicans are going to be

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Speaker 7: coming out calling on Johnson to either resign or threatening

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Speaker 7: to force him out sometime in the future. So the

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Speaker 7: big sort of headline I guess for the world is

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Speaker 7: that this bill is got filing out a pass. Ukraine's

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Speaker 7: going to get their money in their ward against Putin.

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Speaker 7: But here in Washington, we are all obsessed with this

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Speaker 7: sort of like Republican infighting, Republicans eating each other. But

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Speaker 7: there again, and the fact that we might see another speaker, Alston.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of like interesting mac and nations

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes too. I'm hoping you could talk about

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Speaker 1: the Fart Committee art.

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Speaker 7: Yes, I really want to make a sound effect right now,

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Speaker 7: but I will not do that for the benefit of

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Speaker 7: your early listeners.

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Speaker 1: That's very that's very good, thank you. That's how we

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Speaker 1: roll here.

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Speaker 6: I met with my mouth, not with other places.

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Speaker 7: But anyway, this is actually a story my colleague Olivia

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Speaker 7: Beavers broke yesterday. This is a group of Conservatives who

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Speaker 7: think Johnson he's negotiating so much with Democrats that they

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Speaker 7: don't trust that he and other members of House leadership

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Speaker 7: aren't going to try to enact revenge on them for

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Speaker 7: refusing to sort of fall in line on this foreign

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Speaker 7: assistance package. So this group of Republican Conservatives who are

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Speaker 7: worried about losing committee assignments, worried about being sent on

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Speaker 7: the floor somebody bringing up something last minute, they sort

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Speaker 7: of adopted this we're going to guard the floor mentality,

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Speaker 7: where they're going to watch what's going on and make sure.

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Speaker 6: Nothing sort of slips past them.

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Speaker 7: Usually lawmakers know when something like this is going to

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Speaker 7: come up, like by unanimous consent, meaning like somebody will

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Speaker 7: stand and say, look, I moved to censure so and

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Speaker 7: so lawmakers know somebody in jets and then there's a

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Speaker 7: roll call vote in a fuller debate. Well, conservatives are

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Speaker 7: now worried that the leadership is going to try to

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Speaker 7: punish them without getting any notice, so they're guarding the floor. Yes,

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Speaker 7: the acronym of this group is called FART or Action

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Speaker 7: Response Team.

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Speaker 6: There you go.

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Speaker 1: It would have been so easy to have called a kart,

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Speaker 1: which would have then not been nearly as embarrassing, like

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Speaker 1: the Congressional Action Response Team, you know what I.

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Speaker 6: Mean, like Conservatives Action respond Yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: Clearly nobody understands how acronyms work. But then there was

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Speaker 1: also moment where conservatives got to put a lot of

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Speaker 1: like really wild amendment in there. Can you talk about that?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: I mean so Johnson said, since he unveiled his version

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Speaker 7: of this Foreign Assistance bill, he has said that he

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Speaker 7: was going to open it up to amendment. And what

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Speaker 7: that means is like there are going to be amendments

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Speaker 7: where conservatives are going to say, I want to strip

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Speaker 7: all the funding out of Ukraine. I'm offering amendment to

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Speaker 7: take all that money out. You know, in theory, Democrats,

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Speaker 7: if they wanted to, could try to put up an amendment,

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Speaker 7: say to require conditions on assistance for Israel, which is

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Speaker 7: obviously becoming very popular in a Democratic party. But those

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Speaker 7: conditions are not in this Foreign Assistant's package. So part

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Speaker 7: of just sort of him being able to turn to

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Speaker 7: his conservatives and say, look, I gave you a chance

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Speaker 7: to amend the bill. That's sort of what this is

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Speaker 7: to try to at least modify or mollify some of

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Speaker 7: the anger and sort of tamp down, you know, those sentiments.

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Speaker 7: The problem is he's not giving them everything they want

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Speaker 7: because he can't. A lot of these conservatives want to

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Speaker 7: add what's known as HR two. It's this massively far

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Speaker 7: right border crackdown that will never in any way clear

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Speaker 7: the Senate slash make it to the White House. Biden

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Speaker 7: would be toilt even if it did. But they want

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Speaker 7: to amend it the bill to attach that album is

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Speaker 7: if you do that, the foreign Assistance package dies. And

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Speaker 7: you know, Johnson, to his credit here kept that in

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Speaker 7: mind throughout.

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Speaker 6: All of this.

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Speaker 7: I mean, he met with a lot of these conservatives.

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Speaker 7: He was getting tremendous pressure to sort of load it

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Speaker 7: up with these partisan, toxic provisions that of course the

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Speaker 7: right really wants.

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Speaker 6: But then if.

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Speaker 7: They get added, you can say bye bye to any

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Speaker 7: Ukraine assistant. So ultimately he kept you know, the top priority,

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Speaker 7: top priority in his mind, which is getting this Ukraine

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Speaker 7: money and money to Israel passed. And so he told them, no,

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Speaker 7: we're not going to allow those amendments. The bill is

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Speaker 7: expected to clear, it's going to pass.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this will mean finally money for Ukraine, money

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Speaker 1: for Taiwan, and money for Israel.

438
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Speaker 7: Al Right, yeah, I mean, if you think about it,

439
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 7: it's been more than six months. I'm trying to remember

440
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 7: when the Way House first asked for this money to

441
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 7: come through. The Senate didn't take it up till around

442
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 7: a little after the new year. But yeah, I mean

443
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 7: we have gone back and forth. It has been such

444
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 7: a zig zagging pattern here. And remember back when the

445
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 7: White House asked for this money, Johnson, Speaker Johnson himself

446
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 7: was the one who said, look, I need the border

447
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 7: addressed before we passed the supplemental bill that sent Republicans

448
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 7: and Democrats in the Senate down this sort of negotiating

449
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 7: rabbit hole for months, coming up with this bipartisan border deal,

450
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 7: which was quite historic and you know, had it actually passed,

451
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 7: might have actually done something, you know, for the situation

452
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 7: at border. But then Johnson himself, getting pressure from Trump

453
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 7: not to give Democrats a border solution, killed what he

454
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 7: initially demanded. And now he's basically done what the White

455
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 7: House has wanted all along, which has passed this Foreign

456
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 7: Assistance bill that includes a couple of other provisions that

457
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 7: he wanted, but mostly it's what the White House wanted.

458
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 7: So it's a big victory for them.

459
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. It's what the White House wanted.

460
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 1: It means that Ukin will be able to continue fighting

461
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: this war. I'm curious now this leaves Johnson. One of

462
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: the things somebody said to me. A friend of mine said, well,

463
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: Congressional Aid has said that the Democrats are prepared to

464
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: save Johnson. And then a member of Congress who I

465
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: was texting was said, actually, Johnson doesn't want to be saved.

466
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think.

467
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 6: I mean, he doesn't want to be saved.

468
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 7: And the reason is because even if Democrats do save him,

469
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 7: which all my Democratic sources I've talked to have told

470
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 7: me they.

471
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 6: Will, they will do it.

472
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 7: And I know that the Democratic leadership right now is

473
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 7: sort of they're not weighing in on this. But I

474
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 7: think they're not weighing in on this because they don't

475
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 7: want to make Johnson's life.

476
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: Harder, right, which is what it would do.

477
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's this notion of you know,

478
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 7: if Democrats are the ones who prop him up as speaker,

479
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 7: you're going to see a whole bunch of conservatives, not

480
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 7: just the three right now calling for him to go,

481
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 7: but a bunch more saying he cannot be speaker. And

482
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 7: the reason is because you know, if he's got to

483
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 7: rely on Democrats to keep the gavel, there's going to

484
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 7: be a mutiny. I don't know how fast it's going

485
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 7: to happen, but like I even talk to leadership Republicans

486
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 7: who'll back Johnson, and they are saying, even on the record,

487
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 7: like this is not a tenable situation. So if the

488
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 7: people Marjor Taylor Green's of the world try to oust Johnson,

489
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 7: Democrats step in and save him, which I think, you know,

490
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 7: there's a good chance that this actually happens. It's only

491
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 7: a temporary solution because then you're going to have Marjor

492
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 7: Taylor Green maybe on a daily basis, a weekly basis,

493
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 7: a regular basis, filing motions to vaking, and every time

494
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 7: they happen, the base is going to put pressure on

495
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 7: Republican lawmakers to go against Johnson because they're going to

496
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 7: start calling him a Democratic speaker, and it's just going

497
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 7: to become this huge distraction in an election year when

498
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 7: Republicans aimed to be united and Trump frankly doesn't want

499
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 7: to talk about this so it's just it's not something

500
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 7: he doesn't want Dems to save him. It's just a

501
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 7: question does he resign before that happens, or you know,

502
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 7: how does he sort of play this?

503
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: How does this go? Yeah, and it's such an interesting

504
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: situation because here you have this really like slim majority,

505
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: the Ozambic Republican majority, right yeah, I like, and just

506
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: getting smaller, and it's yours. It is an election year,

507
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: like we keep forget, or at least I keep I

508
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: mean I don't because it feels like, you know, every

509
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 1: day is a year. There's a lot happening in an

510
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: election year, when historically, usually you know, a well function

511
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: in Congress would try not to have drama during an

512
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: election year. Is that fair?

513
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 7: Two points actually there, The first one being the fact

514
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 7: that Congress is like a big story right now. I mean,

515
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 7: usually in a presidential election year, all the reporters on

516
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 7: Capitol Hills sort of lead their beats, they go to

517
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 7: campaign trail, Congress sort of fads into the background. It's

518
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 7: like a non story. That is not the case because

519
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 7: of the Republican infighting. They just keep bringing it up,

520
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 7: I mean, threats to Alice Johnson. Johnson responding like, is

521
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 7: Johnson up put this bill on the floor. He put

522
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 7: the bill on the floor. So what does this mean

523
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 7: for his you know, his time as Speaker. So there's

524
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 7: a lot of coverage and like a lot of significant

525
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 7: legislation being passed right now, and it's you know, supplementally

526
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 7: born assistance package that we talked about.

527
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 6: But number two.

528
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 7: So I have heard from Trump's inner circle that they

529
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 7: were mad at murder Tayler Green when she first started

530
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 7: talking about this.

531
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 6: And the reason is what you just said.

532
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 7: They know this is going to hurt him and it's

533
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 7: going to be a destruction and you know it could

534
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 7: spill over onto his campaign. So, like, I guess I'm

535
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 7: curious to see if Trump actually steps out more to

536
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 7: protect Johnson's job. I think it was pretty telling that

537
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 7: he did this press conference with Speaker Johnson about a

538
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 7: week ago, where Johnson came down to mar A Lago

539
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 7: and they talked about you know, quote election integrity, they

540
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 7: talked about another of issues, but the Foreign President clearly

541
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 7: said I stand with the Speaker. But since then, he's

542
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 7: been asked, does that mean white blank that you don't

543
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 7: want Johnson to be ousted? And he says he said

544
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 7: We'll see what happens, right, We'll see what happens. I

545
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 7: also was talking to Thomas Messi, one of the Republicans,

546
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 7: trying to ask him about this on Friday, and Nassy

547
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 7: told me, like his understanding is that Trump is not

548
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 7: going to weigh in and publicly say leave the speaker alone,

549
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 7: that he's gonna sort of just set back and let

550
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 7: them do the rebels sort of do what they need

551
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 7: to do, which by the way, is a different read

552
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 7: than I got from the Trump inner circle. But it

553
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 7: just stands to show that, like the message about what

554
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 7: Trump wants is not necessarily being sent to the people

555
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 7: who perhaps need to hear it in terms of getting

556
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 7: them to stand down. So that's one thing I'm going

557
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 7: to be watching really closely over the next few days,

558
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 7: because you.

559
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 6: Know, obviously Trump's very influential with these guys.

560
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's really interesting, like there just

561
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: isn't a clear plan. None of this is a plan.

562
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: There is no three dimensional chests. I Mean, what I

563
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: think is interesting too, is that you see Marjorie Taylor

564
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: Green has benefited so much from this perverse incentive structure

565
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: of being. You know, where you act out and you

566
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: get rewarded with small dollar donations, that it would be

567
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: hard to put the genie back on the bottle.

568
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 6: Now, I totally agree with you.

569
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 7: I've talked to some Republicans who have told me that

570
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 7: they think this whole thing is a bluff that you know,

571
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 7: Marjorie and Tom MASSI were sort of putting this thread

572
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 7: out there to try to get Johnson to walk you know,

573
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 7: the Ukraine land.

574
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 6: Back, but I don't.

575
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 7: It's hard for me to see, given how pointed they

576
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 7: are and how like they've been on TV. They're talking

577
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 7: to reporters and new interviews, like, it's hard for me

578
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 7: to see them sort of walking this back. It feels

579
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 7: like they're going to have to do this at some point.

580
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 7: I did try to get Messy to give me more

581
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 7: information about when exactly they're going to pull the trigger

582
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 7: on this, and he told me that basically, the rebels

583
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 7: are of the mind right now that they're going to

584
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 7: give Johnson time. What they want to do is call

585
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 7: he said, like a wrench. We're going to ratchet up

586
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 7: the pressure on him by slowly building the number of

587
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 7: Republicans who publicly come out and say he needs to

588
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 7: step aside or I'm going to join in the motion

589
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 7: to vacate, and Massey basically said, look, we hope that

590
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 7: by we get to the time we get to about

591
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 7: a dozen Republicans coming out and saying that that Johnson

592
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 7: will quote, you know, see the writing on the wall,

593
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 7: and we'll pull a John Bayner two point zero and

594
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 7: step aside. And what I mean by that is when

595
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 7: the motion to vacate was filed against John Bayner when

596
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 7: he was speaker several years ago, Bayer basically decided to resign.

597
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 7: He said, I'm not going to put the conference through that,

598
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 7: and I'm going to leave. And so that's what Massey

599
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 7: is hoping Johnson does. Johnson said he's not resigning. So

600
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 7: it's a bit of a game of chicken right now

601
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 7: to see who cave's first. But notably, Massey did not

602
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 7: tell me when exactly they want him to step aside

603
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 7: by Like I said, you know, if he doesn't do it,

604
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 7: my next Wednesday or you gotta file the motion, what

605
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 7: about next Friday? Like he wouldn't go there, which is

606
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 7: interesting to me. So maybe they do blink. Maybe the

607
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 7: Conservatives do blink and never actually do this. I don't

608
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 7: know's it'll be interesting to watch.

609
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: It is also true though, that they're not great options

610
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: for the Conservatives, right. For example, I'm not convinced that

611
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: Steve Scalise would give them more of what they want.

612
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, Conservatives met on Thursday night to discuss that in particular. Okay,

613
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 7: so what's the succession plan here? If we get Johnson out?

614
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 7: And you know a lot of people think Sclice would

615
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 7: be the most likely to take over. He got the

616
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 7: most boats.

617
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: Him and Tom Emers, right.

618
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, Tom Emmer and a lot of people think

619
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 7: the same members who tried to get the gabble last

620
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 7: time around, we'll try again. Jim Jordan, Tom Emmer, Steve

621
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 7: Gleise and Splice got like the most votes out of.

622
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 6: All those guys.

623
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 7: So conservatives don't super love Steve gleae either. So like

624
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 7: you got to ask, like, if it's not Johnson, who's

625
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 7: it going to be? And so there are some conservatives

626
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 7: who are upset with Johnson, but who will not join

627
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 7: this movement because of that issue. I will say one

628
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 7: other sort of bit of news that's first discussing is

629
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 7: that like every Republican I talked to, from conservative to

630
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 7: moderate to sort of more traditional Republican is telling me

631
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 7: on background that Johnson and will not lead next year.

632
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 6: They think that he's just and he.

633
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 7: Sort of fell on his sword for this foreignersistence package

634
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 7: to pass bipartisan government spending bills, and that after the election,

635
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 7: even if Republicans keep the House, which they probably will not,

636
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 7: that he's probably going to be booted and the rest

637
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 7: are looking for another leader. So just a question of

638
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 7: like when is that going to happen.

639
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: It's just wild. I was really am glad you came

640
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: and just talked us through it. Really appreciate you. And

641
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: before we started recording, I did say that I really

642
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: like the playbook. I know I'm not supposed to plug

643
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: other people's podcasts on your podcast, but I really like

644
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: the Playbook podcast. I listen to it all the time

645
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of really interesting inside baseball stuff.

646
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 7: Well, thank you, Molly. I appreciate that it's a short listen. Yes,

647
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 7: doesn't compete with you, doesn't compete.

648
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 6: With you, Okay, best politics is king.

649
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: Very well done, Thank you, Rachel. I hope you'll come back.

650
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 6: I will. Thanks Tonni.

651
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: Bill Weird is a climate reporter at CNN and author

652
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: of Life as We Know It Can Be Stories of people,

653
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: climate and hope in a changing world.

654
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: Welcome too fast politic spell.

655
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 5: Molly, so great to be with you.

656
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you here. I think

657
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: of you as the CNN climate guy.

658
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, that's perfectly fair. I think I'm going to

659
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 8: change my business CODs to that.

660
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: And this book is called Life as We Know It,

661
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: And then in parentheses can be talk to me about

662
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: why you decided to write this book and sort of

663
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: how you got here.

664
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 8: Well, first, Molly, I got to give props to your

665
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 8: mom because I was a latch key sort of gypsy

666
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 8: kid growing up, did a lot of reading, and my

667
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 8: stepmother's copy of Fear of Flying taught me the birds

668
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 8: and the bees at an impressionable age at least made

669
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 8: it a lot more entertainment. So my literary influences are.

670
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 5: And maybe began there.

671
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 8: I always wanted to be an author, but too lazy

672
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 8: and too busy, I guess to think about it until

673
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 8: at the height of the pandemic in twenty twenty, I

674
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 8: had been on the Climate Beak full time for about

675
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 8: three or four years. Yeah, I guess four years, because

676
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 8: I did the Wonder List. So for those I don't

677
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 8: assume know me. But I was this sort of journeyman

678
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 8: TV broadcaster at the different networks ABC for a while,

679
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 8: but at CNN they gave me this the greatest green

680
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 8: light in the history of TV news. I pitched a

681
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 8: show called The Wonderlist, in which I get to travel

682
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 8: to the wonders of the world and wonder what will

683
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 8: be left of them for my daughter when she turns

684
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 8: my age in the year twenty fifty and so I

685
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 8: learned so much on that project. And then when she

686
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 8: was sixteen years old, I did a pandemic world on Lockdown.

687
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 8: I became a new old dad with my partner. Much

688
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 8: to our delight and surprise, my partner got pregnant and

689
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 8: brought our sun River into the world, which is a

690
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 8: whole different perspective on parenting when they're sixteen years apart

691
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 8: and I'm holding this little bundle looking out onto a dystopia. Basically,

692
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 8: I was covering, you know, the protest after George Floyd's murder,

693
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 8: and the pandemic was raging, and nobody knew what was

694
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 8: happening politically, and so I started writing these sort of

695
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 8: Earth Day letters to my newborn about the letters of apology. Sorry,

696
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 8: we broke your sea in your sky, and you know,

697
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 8: shortened the wings of the nightingale and all these other things.

698
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 8: But I'm so glad you're here because we need all

699
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 8: the help we can get.

700
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 5: And these letters.

701
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 8: Turned into end of a user's manual from my little

702
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 8: boy to think about the planet we built for accident,

703
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 8: for him, how to think about the basics that I took.

704
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 5: For granted, like air and water and.

705
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 8: Temperature and shelter and food and how we build and

706
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 8: grow these things. They're hidden costs behind them, and I

707
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 8: wanted to lay out sort of a clear eyed assessment

708
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 8: of it's grim, it's going to get tough, but good

709
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 8: thing you're tough. And here are some really, really inspiring

710
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 8: folks I've met along the way who are trying to

711
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 8: fix this, and they're trying to build us a better world.

712
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 8: And life as we know it maybe over for better

713
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 8: or worse, but life as we know it can be

714
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 8: is full of potential and possibility. And there's so much

715
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 8: of this glorious planet left to savor and save. And

716
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 8: if we can just get our story straightened out about

717
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 8: our relationship with each other and the natural world and

718
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 8: all the great possibilities and hope. You know, doctor King

719
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 8: didn't say I have a nightmare. They were living a nightmare.

720
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 8: He said I have a dream. And it gave something

721
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 8: people to work towards and struggle through to get to.

722
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 8: And we don't have that conversation nearly enough in the

723
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 8: climate space. All they were nearly enough. Climate conversations were

724
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 8: at large. But the way we've talked about this story

725
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 8: has been one of dread and fear and starving polar bears.

726
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 5: I love s polar bears.

727
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 8: But now the story is about future billionaires who are

728
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 8: walking the streets right now in thermal battery companies or

729
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 8: carbon capture companies and industries that you haven't heard of yet.

730
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 8: It's that there are so many incredible ideas to just

731
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 8: tweak and hack the comfortable lives we already have without

732
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 8: noticing the loss and comfort, but our orders of magnitude

733
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 8: better for life on Earth and create much health here,

734
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 8: more resilient communities. And somehow I ended up with a book. Actually,

735
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 8: I was actually supposed to turn this in two years ago,

736
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 8: and it would have been a much darker book, honestly,

737
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 8: because I was full time in the climate beat at

738
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 8: that point, and it was just nothing but peer reviewed dread.

739
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 8: But Joe Mansion changed his mind and the country passed

740
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 8: the most ambitious sort of in more carrots than Stick's legislation.

741
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 8: But it's still uncorked all of this energy, financially, intellectually

742
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 8: innovation into figuring this out and reversing the damage right

743
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 8: at the last moment.

744
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 5: And so when I.

745
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 8: Focus on those guys, the doers and dreamers, things got

746
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 8: a lot more hopeful.

747
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: So do you feel actually more hopeful about the climate now?

748
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 8: I do, for and it's all relative, right, you know,

749
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 8: before the Paris Agreements in twenty fifteen, we were on

750
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 8: track for like ten degrees fahreneitam warmant, right, like literally

751
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 8: making everything between the tropics unlivable and killing every reef

752
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 8: and melting every glacier. In twenty twenty, that seems really bad,

753
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 8: But so that was four to five degrees celsius of

754
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 8: warmings where we were headed. By twenty twenty two, just

755
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 8: as you know, renewables are hitting their stride and became

756
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 8: super cheap or on track for two point seven degrees celsius.

757
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 8: Still not great, Still losing a lot of reefs and

758
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 8: a lot of mountain ice, and who knows about sea

759
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 8: level rise, what that'll do, But it's a hell of

760
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 8: a lot better than the hell we were headed towards.

761
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 8: And right now we may be on track for two

762
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 8: point four lower, you know. And these are things that

763
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 8: the public were not noticing changes in energy streams.

764
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 5: And for most of human.

765
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 8: History we just burned whatever was cheap, you know, dung

766
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 8: or whales or you know, sequoia redwoods. But now the

767
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 8: two cheapest forms of energy Homo sapiens have ever created

768
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 8: are sun and wind, sun plus battery storage and onshore wind.

769
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 8: And that's why Texas leads the nation in renewable energy.

770
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 8: A couple sundays ago, there was so much sudden wind

771
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 8: in Texas electricity was free for six hours. And that reality,

772
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 8: that economic reality, is strumping the ideology and the politics

773
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 8: at that level. But of course, elections have consequences, and

774
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 8: all of this sort of movement in the right direction

775
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 8: could either be accelerated or stagnateated.

776
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 5: It depends on how things go in November.

777
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: If Trump winds were so profoundly fucked for a million

778
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: different reasons. But I'm hoping you could talk a little

779
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: bit about how I mean, two and a half degree

780
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: still seems like too much.

781
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:35,959
Speaker 5: It is too much.

782
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 8: You know, we just had set another record. I live

783
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 8: in the age of all I do is go on

784
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 8: CNN and talk about broken records like I'm a broken record.

785
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 8: And March we've yet another hottest month. Ever, every day

786
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 8: from the last year has set a new record of

787
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 8: you know that particular date in sea temperatures, the oceans

788
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 8: are just boiling hot, and hurricane season predictions are off

789
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 8: the charts. There's so much sort of baked in. This

790
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 8: is a slow motion thing. We're paying for the sins

791
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 8: of the fathers in many ways. But and so it

792
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 8: sets up the greatest challenge human and you will ever face.

793
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 8: It's like, how do we pull down literally gigatons of

794
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 8: carbon from the sky that we've already put up there

795
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 8: and pull it from the ocean. And you think about

796
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 8: that vaguely, like, oh, I know COO two is a

797
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 8: gas that can't see it or smell it. But imagine

798
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 8: gigatons of any object. Brain cars full of them, guys

799
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 8: in hard hats and boots moving them ships. That's how

800
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 8: much carbon we need to pull out of the sky

801
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 8: and lock underground back send carbon Godzilla back from whence

802
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 8: it came, which is an exciting possibility if you think

803
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 8: about it as a new industrial revolution and a way

804
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 8: to gather around and really do this in a united front.

805
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 8: It's also a scary proposition. It'll be resisted by the

806
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 8: status quo.

807
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 5: People will have no interest in that.

808
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 8: But until that happens, until we get the parts per

809
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 8: million of this planet cooking stuff in the atmosphere normalized,

810
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 8: until we shut off the thing which is burping out

811
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 8: of every natural gas well in the world, the temperatures

812
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 8: are just going to keep going up. So we both

813
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 8: have to adapt so that to the problems that are

814
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 8: already happening hard in our cities. They're doing this piecemeal

815
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 8: around the country. I kind of liken it to the

816
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 8: five stages of grief. Elizabethkogle Ross was his genius who

817
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 8: when she started practicing in Chicago in like the seventies,

818
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 8: doctors didn't use the word terminal. They wouldn't tell terminal

819
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 8: cancer patients that they were terminal.

820
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 5: And when she.

821
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 8: Started interviewing people and understanding how they were processing, going

822
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 8: from denial to anger to bargaining to depression and acceptance

823
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 8: and various stages and cycling in and out of hole.

824
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 8: She created hospice care. Now doctors listen to their terminal

825
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 8: patients for end of life decisions. I liken that to

826
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 8: the climate crisis, Like you drive through this country, vast

827
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 8: loss of denial in the Petro States for various reasons,

828
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 8: bargaining in Charleston where they're building sea walls, in Miami

829
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 8: where they're raising their streets, a lot of anger everywhere,

830
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 8: a lot of depression everyone. But until you get to

831
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 8: acceptance like this is a problem that we have to solve,

832
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 8: and we can like aging, it can go well or

833
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 8: it can go horribly. We have to tell that story

834
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 8: and rally around those things. And this is why the

835
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 8: longer we kick the can down the road, conversations about

836
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 8: things like geoengineering, like putting a man made sunscreen a

837
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 8: natural sunscreen in the sky to mimic the shading effect

838
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,959
Speaker 8: of a volcano just to buy us time because things

839
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 8: are heating up way faster than even science predicted five

840
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 8: years ago.

841
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: Does that strike you as strange that you know we

842
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: are in the minority, the two of us and Jesse,

843
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: and you know people watch CNN, right and MSNBC. We

844
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: all reading the New York Times, like We all get

845
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: that it's the carbon, it's you know that that's what's

846
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: heating the atmosphere, and we're on a collision course with disaster.

847
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: But America is a country of three hundred plus million people.

848
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: Why is it so hard to put this together? I mean,

849
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: I when I grew up, we had snowstorms. We lived

850
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: on a totally different planet. Like, why is it taking

851
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: so long for people to connect with what's happening.

852
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 5: A couple of things.

853
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 8: The conversation has been politicized for most of my life

854
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 8: by a handful of people. You could sit on a

855
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 8: couple of greyhound buses. Honestly, the folks who belong to

856
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 8: the petroleum club in Houston, like the fact that people

857
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 8: don't equate the wildfire smoke that we saw summer with

858
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 8: the invisible you know, plat cooking pollution that gets emitted

859
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 8: from every tail pipe and smokestack, and so very vested

860
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 8: interests from the most powerful industries humanity has ever created

861
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 8: don't want things to change from the way they are

862
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 8: right now. So there's that messaging battle and all the

863
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 8: attendant political allegiances.

864
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 5: That go with that.

865
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 8: The media, if you could, you know, in a movie

866
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 8: situation and create an evil plot from some genius. Climate

867
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 8: change is pretty good because it's slow motion, and the

868
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 8: people you need to warn to sound the alarms loudest

869
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 8: are the most reticent, mild mannered, non alarmist people in

870
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 8: our society. Scientists earth scientists by nature don't want to

871
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 8: come off as being too alarmist, and so the messaging

872
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 8: both from the people who understand the story and the

873
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 8: people who want to bury the story have really clouded it.

874
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 8: But Molly, here's the thing I thought the way you did,

875
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 8: and here are the words that gave me the most

876
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 8: hope and writing in writing this book a term called

877
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 8: pluralistic ignorance, which is you think you're in the minority,

878
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 8: you're not so big. Study out of Yale, Boston College,

879
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 8: a bunch of universities ask people in twenty twenty two

880
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 8: Americans and both parties just guess how many fellow countrymen

881
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 8: and women care about climate and meaningful action, and both

882
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 8: Bocans and Democrats guessed between thirty three and forty percent.

883
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 8: And the reality is it's between sixty six and eighty percent.

884
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 8: A majority of Republicans are in favor of things like

885
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 8: the Civilian Climate Core that just started taking applications.

886
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, the Civilian Climate Core. This is where

887
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: I lose all voters in my presidential campaign. I am

888
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: sessed with a year of public service, with mandatory public service.

889
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: So it's actually happening. Wow, it's really happening.

890
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 8: It's really happening. And the thing is that, you know,

891
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 8: the Civilian Climate Corp. I have to be by nature

892
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 8: as a journalist, anti non denominational on a lot of

893
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 8: these policies. I don't have a dog in the fight

894
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 8: on energy choices. But the idea that you could take

895
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 8: the young people from Queens and al Passo and portly

896
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 8: Love and put them together reviving mangroves if they love

897
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 8: the outdoors, or learning how to install eat pumps if

898
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 8: they're looking for another career, because it's about connection. It's

899
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 8: about connecting with each other around nature, getting gen Z

900
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 8: and theeds and fall in love with what is left

901
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 8: of this beautiful planet and how much everything they have

902
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 8: depends on her health.

903
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: What is nice about this mandatory year of service and

904
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: the Climate Corps is it's actually both Democrats and Republicans

905
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: hate it. So it is you and I and Mayor Pete.

906
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 5: You want to make it mandatory. I see, okay, that's.

907
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: Oh, I want to make it fuck because I have

908
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: three teenagers, so I totally get why it's a great idea.

909
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: It's much better if it's mandatory. Like basically, my idea is,

910
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: this is why I'm crazy, is that everybody has to

911
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: do it because it should be like you know, in

912
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: Israel they make everyone do the army. Here they make

913
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: everyone do a year of service. It doesn't I mean,

914
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: obviously it shouldn't be the army. It should be like

915
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: building heat pumps or you know, cleaning trash or doing whatever.

916
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: But the truth is service is how we get out

917
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: of ourselves. Service is how we we relate to others.

918
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: I mean, loneliness is caused by isolation. You put every

919
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: American kid who is you know, eighteen or seventeen, the

920
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: year between seventeen and eighteen to work together, white, Black, Christian, Muslim, Jewish.

921
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's going to be amazing. I mean it

922
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: will be a game changer.

923
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 8: This is a climate book, but I have a chapter

924
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 8: in this book addressed to my teenage daughter about social media,

925
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 8: and I'd say social media that how I became addicted

926
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 8: to a Twitter? How I gave her Instagram at ten,

927
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 8: like I regret that with every cell of my body,

928
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 8: and how he interacts with her tears and the natural

929
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 8: world was completely altered by that decision to do that right,

930
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 8: And so the more we can get and we live

931
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 8: in the golden age of self isolation and addiction and

932
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 8: depression and these beautiful, you know, frictionless interfaces where I

933
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 8: can order my dinner every night and not even look

934
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 8: the guy who brings it to me in the eye.

935
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 8: He can leave it outside the door. Or I cannot

936
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 8: see a friend from high school for decades and think

937
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 8: we're connected because I like the picture of his kids.

938
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 8: That's not how we evolve a humans. I need to

939
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 8: go hug. I need to hold that kid. I need

940
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 8: to you know, the healthiest, happiest societies that I visited

941
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 8: on the Wonder List, from blue zones in Greece to

942
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 8: the islands in the South Pacific. It was places where

943
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 8: if you if you don't show up at church or whatever,

944
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 8: people knock on your door to check out. It's where

945
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 8: you can hand your kid off to as many different

946
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 8: parents in an emergency, maximum sleepover possibilities for your kids.

947
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 8: And we were losing that and so as hard as

948
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 8: it is in these election years. I you know what

949
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 8: I'm the message I'm trying to impart is you gotta

950
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 8: hold your scorn for the storytellers, but the story believers

951
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 8: in your neighborhood level, you can connect with them over

952
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 8: you shared love of that hiking trail or the park

953
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 8: or the fish and hole and get past, you know,

954
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 8: the partisanship in a way that you can't with anything else,

955
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 8: you know, and and if we can do it with

956
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 8: our families, with our neighbors, multi generational together in real life,

957
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 8: in the world. Oh man, the Civil War we stopped

958
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 8: maybe our own right.

959
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't think most Americans want a civil war. I

960
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: think most Americans want, you know, to look at their phones.

961
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: But our launch are so convenient today. I mean, I

962
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: think one hundred years ago you would have spent so

963
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: much time doing And now you know, we write books

964
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: and we do television shows and we you know, we

965
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: get to do a lot of stuff that we might

966
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: not otherwise do. Tell us just sort of one of

967
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: the best places you went on the wonder List that

968
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: really where you were like, wow.

969
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 8: Uh, you know what's interesting is I went to I

970
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 8: was flipping through Twitter one day and I saw a

971
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 8: list maybe Ian Brower put it up like a demographer

972
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 8: or something. It was a list of the countries that

973
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 8: lead the world in unwed mother and ice Iceland was

974
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 8: at the top of the list. Two out of three

975
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 8: babies born in Iceland their parents aren't married. And I'm like,

976
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 8: I wonder what that's about, and that like inspired the episode,

977
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 8: and I ended up doing stuff on whaling, you know,

978
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 8: the Last of the whale hunters and geothermal energy. But

979
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 8: what I found to answer a little quie was this

980
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 8: is one of the most feminist societies on the planet

981
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 8: where there is no real financial or moral incentive to

982
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 8: get married. Women start families when they're ready. They have

983
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 8: shared family leave, I think like sixteen months or something

984
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 8: that you can split between parents, and so if a

985
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 8: couple's together for ten years and they want to throw

986
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 8: a party.

987
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 5: They'll get it. They'll get married for that reason.

988
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 8: But it's flipped on its head, and so I was

989
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 8: sort of exploring that they still have problems as the

990
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 8: same problems women around the world deal with sexism and

991
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 8: misogyny and those sorts of things. But the history there

992
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 8: the Vikings were actually a matriarchical society who held things

993
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 8: together while the men were off pillaging. That really small

994
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 8: sense of community and the way that they are connected

995
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 8: with each other and their natural environment. Being sort of

996
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 8: on this desolate island in the middle of the North Atlantic.

997
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 8: They're leading the charge when it comes to clean energy ideas,

998
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 8: and they take care of each other in ways that

999
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 8: I find really inspiring.

1000
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 5: So Iceland is one of my faves.

1001
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 8: Thank you Bell, Thank you Molly.

1002
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: No moment, oh fuck on, Rick Wilson.

1003
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 4: Are you asking for a moment of fuckery, because I

1004
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 4: happen to have several. This week's moment of fuckery is

1005
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 4: the Fart the Floor Action Response Team, which is a

1006
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 4: group of House Conservatives now that Mike Johnson has decided,

1007
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 4: I want you to know how hard it is for

1008
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 4: me to have these words come out of my mouth

1009
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 4: to do the right thing on the foreign aid bills

1010
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 4: in the Ukraine. Legislation hasn't passed yet as we're recording this.

1011
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: But by passover, well, yes, continue.

1012
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 4: Look gonna it's gonna happen. In part because the fart.

1013
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 4: They lost their bet on Johnson. Their bet was he

1014
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 4: wanted to keep the speakership as much as Kevin McCarthy did,

1015
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 4: and that he wouldn't do anything to conceive upset large

1016
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 4: Marge and the rest of the crazies. And at some

1017
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 4: point Johnson did figure out. I don't know what moment

1018
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 4: in time it was, but at some point in the

1019
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 4: last seventy two to ninety six hours he decided that

1020
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 4: the intelligence community wasn't a group of deep state subversives

1021
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 4: lying to him, that Ukraine really is in desperate straits,

1022
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 4: and that if you really want world War three, let

1023
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 4: Russia win in Ukraine. That's how you get world War three.

1024
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 4: There's this still this caucus in the Senate and.

1025
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 5: In the House.

1026
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 4: JD. Vance is now leading the putin American boond in

1027
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 4: the Senate. He's become a guy who who like even

1028
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 4: David Sachs is to the point like, oh well he's

1029
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 4: up there. JD. You're too crazy, you know. Even the

1030
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: lunatics are like, wow, what happened to JD. Vance? But

1031
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 4: in the House, these like Freedom Caucus guys, they still

1032
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 4: believe they can exercise terror. They're failing, but it's really

1033
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 4: interesting to watch how broken they've made the whole house.

1034
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 4: People are quitting in droves. It's ugly. It's completely dysfunctional.

1035
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 4: Johnson may pass this, but he now basically governs at

1036
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 4: the grace of their Democrats, and I am fascinated to

1037
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 4: see how it turns out. And once again, I'm going

1038
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 4: to just say that no one in the Republican world

1039
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 4: should ever be allowed to do an acronym again after

1040
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 4: the name and organization the funt.

1041
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 3: This details with my moment of fackory GOP.

1042
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: Rep Jake Laturner says he won't run for reelection.

1043
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: He is retiring. He is thirty six.

1044
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: When you are thirty six, you tend not to retire,

1045
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: except if you are a Republican in Congress, And that,

1046
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: my friends, is our moment of fuckery.

1047
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 4: Hey listen, if you're that young in the house and

1048
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 4: he had a safe seat, by the way, wasn't really

1049
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 4: a particularly bad seat. Leaving power and walking away at

1050
00:53:55,239 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 4: this age is so against the traditional feel of Washington.

1051
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 4: And maybe that's a bad thing or a good thing.

1052
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 4: I'm not going to argue that. But most of the time,

1053
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 4: if you're in a decent seat, you're going to stay

1054
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 4: there until you find either a better seat to run

1055
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 4: for or until you're so old they carry you out

1056
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 4: like Diane Feinstein.

1057
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Rick Wilson.

1058
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 4: You are welcome as always, have a great day.

1059
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: That's it for this