1 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Tonight we have Mike Elam y'all know him. He's the 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: author of Bewford Pusser, the other story. He's been with us, 3 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: and tonight we are going to really talk about some 4 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: evidence that some of you may have heard, most of 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: you have not. We also have Jason White, another Zone 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: seven alum. Y'all know him from the first forty eight 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: out of Oklahoma and his podcast. And then we have 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: Dennis Hathcock. Now Dennis has never been with us before, 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: but I have been able to walk the scene, not 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: only with Mike but also with Dennis. Dennis was a 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: witness to some of the activity before the ambush and after. 12 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: Then we have Danny Couples. Y'all know Danny emt from 13 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: that from the surrounding area, and he has got some 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: information even about a family member and ironically he found 15 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: out that he was related to Dennis. There has been 16 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: a break in the unsolved murder of Pauline Pusser, wife 17 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: of legendary Sheriff Beauford Pusser from the Walk and Tall Fame. 18 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: What's really bizarre about this entire case to me is 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 2: the fact that they never did an autopsy on Pauline. 20 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: And you would think that a case of this magnitude, 21 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: I don't care what decade it's in, that they would 22 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: have actually done some sort of an examination of her. 23 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: They had a corner system there. 24 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 3: I believe they also had a medical examiner at that 25 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: time as well. 26 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the fact that they didn't do that, I 27 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: would be interested to know. You would think that Buford 28 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: would have demanded it, you know, and it doesn't. It 29 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: doesn't sound like that was the case. I'm just I 30 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: think we're really fortunate that she was not cremated. Actually, 31 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: that was. 32 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 3: One of the things that was very suspicious to me that, 33 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 3: for instance, when Sheriff Pesser had killed Louise Hathcock, Dennis's 34 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: aunt they're at the Shamrock. Of course they called a 35 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: Kelly Hacker in the movie, but they did an autopsy 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 3: on her which came out in a very suspicious manner, 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: with very suspicious results. But yet eighteen months later, they 38 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 3: for some reason didn't do one on a sheriff's wife. 39 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: I mean that really caught your attention. 40 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: Well, that's one thing I was going to ask you, Jason, 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: because you know the full court press that happens when 42 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: an officer is killed in the line of duty. But 43 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,839 Speaker 1: can you imagine the sheriff's wife. You would have never 44 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: gone home, You wouldn't have gone to sleep. 45 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: Now, this would have been all hands on deck. And 46 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: I'm not just in the not just in the Tennessee area. 47 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: I'm guessing that you would have had people that would 48 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 2: have been bending over backwards from Mississippi, UH volunteering about 49 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: to come up there, and they wouldn't have stopped until 50 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: they found the people responsible for this. And that's you know, 51 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: I you know, that's that's gonna happen, ladies and gentlemen. 52 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: That's that's that's a given. So I just didn't see 53 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: that sense of urgency at least, you know, I haven't 54 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: seen that from from any of the interviews or anything 55 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: along those lines, where you know, after the the aftermath, 56 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, you don't really see him searching under every 57 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: you know, every possible avenue for the killer of his wife. 58 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: So I find that a little bit strange. 59 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: Jason. This is a man that took a stick in 60 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: town and was gonna bust heads over a steel. I mean, 61 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: if you're going to do that type of damage over 62 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: moonshine when it comes to your wife, somebody is going 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: to go to prison, somebody might die in the street. 64 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: But that's the part that shocked me. So when you 65 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: hear these stories that he was on the take, that 66 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: he had already shot and killed other people, that he 67 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: was a violent person, the way he ruled that town, 68 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: and then when it came to his wife, nobody's ever arrested, 69 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: nobody's ever put up against a wall, nobody's ever beat 70 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: till they gave a confession. 71 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 3: Cheryl, I might add that, you know, Youwford claimed that 72 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: he was getting all these death threats and all these 73 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 3: things that were happening to him in McNairy County, but 74 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: yet all the surrounding counties basically had the same issues 75 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: and same problems as he did. But nobody else was 76 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 3: going through all that, nobody else was being threatened the 77 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 3: way he. 78 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: Was, right, people trying to stab him, people trying to 79 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: shoot him, or did shoot him. I mean, it just 80 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: seems unusual, doesn't it. 81 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: And it was one of those things where you get 82 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 3: to looking at that, and that was very suspicious as well. 83 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 3: Why was it just him? Why was he the only 84 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 3: law enforcement officer anywhere around, including in his own department. 85 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: I mean, his daddy worked at that department. He was fine. 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just really unusual to me. 87 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: There's a lot of things in this file that we're 88 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: all about to see that's going to really enlighten a 89 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: lot of people. I know that just from reviewing the 90 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: parts of it that I have just seen in the 91 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 3: last couple of days. As a matter of fact, I 92 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 3: haven't had a chance to look at it before this afternoon. 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: And while we were sitting here and Dennis was talking, 94 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: I was over here highlighting some of the things about 95 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 3: the ambush is Youford described it, and seeing a lot 96 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 3: of discrepant and what he would tell investigators as opposed 97 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 3: to what he would later tell the media. And it 98 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: was like, the man has always been building his own 99 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: legend from day one, and that's where he turned this 100 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: to ambush into you know, I thought that Gewford was 101 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 3: the greatest thing since pockets on shirts, sliced bread and 102 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: other things, and you know so much Snow I wanted 103 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 3: to learn more about the man, and all that taught 104 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: me was you don't ever research your heroes, because you're 105 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 3: going to find some a lot of things that you 106 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 3: weren't expecting and things that just changed your whole thought 107 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: process about the individual. 108 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: Dennis, I'm gonna tell you something. If I had been 109 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: sixteen with you and the idea that we would have 110 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: been able to stalk that sheriff and see what was 111 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: going on in that town, Honey, I would have been 112 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: in that car or that motus with you, hanging on, 113 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: having the time of my life. 114 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 4: Well, that's what I thought. 115 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: You would have been lucked, honey. I would have been 116 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: on the back of your minorcycle. Come on, now, Oh 117 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: my gosh, So Jason, in a situation like this, you 118 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: got to check all traps, that's what we call it, y'all, 119 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: and you got to connect all these dots. And in 120 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: this case, you would have local moonshiners that might have 121 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: a grudge against the sheriff. You got Dixie mafia that 122 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: you know wanted him dead. You had the Halfcock family 123 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: that was wanting to take him out, and you had 124 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: the sheriff that was on the take. So other people 125 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: that maybe even on your radar, would have wanted to 126 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: get rid of him. When you watched the press conference 127 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: and you're literally watching them take down a legend, what 128 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: was going through your mind as a detective. 129 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, what was going through my mind 130 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: was that I was My personal take on this is 131 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: I was extremely impressed with the Attorney General and with 132 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation for number one, taking this 133 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: case serious. This is not an easy case by any stretch. 134 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: We're talking about a case from nineteen sixty seven. I 135 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: have no doubt that there's witnesses along the lines that 136 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: maybe not eyewitnesses to the actual event, but witnesses along 137 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: the way that have since died, people that would have 138 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 2: been great to talk to if you would have been 139 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: able to. There's no doubt that you have some of 140 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: these witnesses that probably still to this day won't speak 141 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: on it. And one of the things that Dennis brings 142 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: up to me that brings a lot of credibility is 143 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: the fact that that is exactly what a sixteen year 144 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: old kid is going to be out doing in a 145 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: town that there's nothing else to do in. I don't 146 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 2: see an adult doing that and following the sheriff to 147 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: see what he's up to, but a kid. That's credible 148 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 2: to me. And so when I was watching that press conference, 149 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of people that have commented since 150 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: this this thing has came out more so on the 151 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: positive side actually in support of what the what their 152 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: conclusion was. But there are those that have actually, you know, 153 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: they're like, what's the point everybody that's involved in this 154 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: case is dead. Well, the point is Pauline. And that's 155 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: probably the most disappointing thing when you do get some 156 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 2: of the naysayers that are that are you know, they 157 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: continue to comment about this and that they just never 158 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: mentioned Pauline or how about let's get into the truth. 159 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there really is no statute of limitations on murder. 160 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 2: And either way, Pauline's family deserves the truth, as does 161 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: Bufford's as to what's going on there. I mean, everybody 162 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: deserves to know what's up. 163 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, her brother, I mean he's in his eighties. It's 164 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: way past time for him to know. 165 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: The truth it is. 166 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: And I just think I just think that there's some 167 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: things that I was a little There was one thing 168 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: that they didn't talk about that they kind of just 169 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: diverted you to to wait for the reports to come out, 170 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: and that was whether or not the gun was a 171 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: match the cartridge casings. I'm going to assume that there's 172 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: cartridge casings out along the roadway or somewhere, and and 173 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: so I would think that that would be a relatively 174 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: easy question to answer. It's either you know, I, me 175 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: and Mike have talked before, and I told Michael a 176 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: long time ago, I said, by them not coming out 177 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: with a press conference in about an hour after testing 178 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: that gun to say that it's not the gun, that's 179 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: pretty telling to me that they're that you know that 180 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: they're believing that this gun is going to be involved. 181 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: And then of course, Cheryl, we all know that that 182 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: led to the exhumation, and and but anyway, I just 183 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: to answer your question in a very short way is 184 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: I was impressed with the fact that they're being transparent. 185 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: And I think that another thing that bears mentioning is 186 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: the fact that they this is the second time in 187 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: history that TBI is actually completely I don't know what 188 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: the first case was, but this is the second time 189 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: that they're gonna They're going to be completely transparent with 190 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: all of the records, with the exception of some minor reactions. 191 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: And in saying that, I have no doubt that they're 192 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 2: wanting to be transparent because they already know that people 193 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: are going to question how they got to this conclusion. 194 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: And I think that that's really a brilliant move on 195 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: their part to allow people to be able to see 196 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: exactly what they're talking about. 197 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: To me, regardless if the gun is a perfect match 198 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: or not. That kind of inspired them to take a 199 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: look at other things. Other witnesses that, you know, we 200 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: brought forward people that had never had a statement taken. 201 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 3: They were able to share things that they knew about 202 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 3: it because over these years, you know, there's been a 203 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: lot of people stayed quiet about what they were aware of. 204 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 3: And it's not like anyone knew the whole story. Each 205 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 3: person that I had visited with they just had a 206 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: small piece of it, and it was kind of like 207 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: putting a puzzle together and after a while, the full 208 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 3: picture begins to form. And so that was what I 209 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 3: felt like was so important. I don't know if that 210 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 3: gun was a perfect match, but I do know that 211 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: that's what kicked it off, and that's what got the 212 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: TBI to look into all these other issues. And when 213 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 3: they did, I mean, it became pretty clear to them 214 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: what was happening. And I'm sure that they've wondered how 215 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: this got swept under the rug, if you will, prior 216 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: to this, but you know, back then, it was a 217 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 3: different time. Standards for law enforcement were very much different 218 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 3: than they are today. The current sheriff over there and 219 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 3: I kind of halfway teas and were serious but saying 220 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: things that they did back then that were just considered 221 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 3: standard of the day. An officer would be arrested for 222 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 3: those things these days. 223 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: Sure, Look, there was only two camps in that town, 224 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: the people that worshiped him and the people that were 225 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: scared of death of him. So when this went down, 226 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: they either believed him or were never going to say nothing. 227 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: Well, and the reason a lot of these people I 228 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 3: don't believe came forward is either because you know, you've 229 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 3: had something on them and or they had a fear 230 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: of him, and sometimes probably both. 231 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: So Danny, let's talk about the autopsy. So you have 232 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: to live in Tennessee to get it, I believe, But 233 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: tell me your thoughts about what you think it's going 234 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: to reveal. 235 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 5: I've read it a couple of times, and a lot 236 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 5: of people that read it outside the medical knowledge or 237 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 5: the law of the medical terms doesn't really understand some 238 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 5: of the things. But what's very clear is for one thing, 239 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 5: I want to say this, and this is my opinion, 240 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 5: and my opinion only. It's nothing against TBI and their investigation. 241 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 5: I feel they got it wrong about where she was shot. 242 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 5: And that's just my opinion from me examining the evidence 243 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 5: that I've seen. I feel like they got it wrong. 244 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 5: The outcome came out good, but here's why. The autopsy 245 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 5: report says that she has They called it, you know, 246 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 5: we don't like to call moons entrance or exits, but 247 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 5: they say that they they assume that there is an 248 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 5: entrance won to the back of her head four inches 249 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 5: from the top of her head, just left of center, 250 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 5: which will be in there, simple little lobe if her 251 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 5: head is facing to me, if her head is facing 252 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 5: towards that car door and leaning against the door, her forehead, 253 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 5: you remember that BOYD spot just kind of threw that 254 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 5: in there, left from centered occipital region and it exited, 255 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 5: as they say in the report, her right temporal and 256 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 5: front lobe, which again direction if someone was in the 257 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 5: car and shooting, it would go. And then to me, 258 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 5: that part of her head that would have come off 259 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 5: would have been what Dennis found or he discovered on 260 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 5: the scene. And I've read through that many many times, 261 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 5: and I think they did the lab work. Onlything that 262 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 5: was in her system was catheine that they saw. They 263 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 5: saw some they called it healing wounds to her nasal 264 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 5: area like maybe someone that she was hit in the nose, 265 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 5: and some fractures in that area as well. But they 266 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 5: also say they found bullet fragments inside her skull, which 267 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 5: a lot of her skull was gone. It had packing, cotton, packing, 268 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 5: and plaster. I think they said to fill that area 269 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 5: so that she could be visualized at the funeral home. 270 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 5: I'm trying to think of something else that was really 271 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 5: big in there, but they don't. They can't be conclusive 272 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 5: if she was shot more than once. They do know 273 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 5: for a fact that they can say she was shot 274 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 5: at least once. 275 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: Well, the hood of the car, Mike, was real significant 276 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: to me and Jason and Danny, and I'm sure Dennis, 277 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: but I haven't spoken to Dennis specifically about it. But 278 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: you cannot see that blood spatter on the hood of 279 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: that car and then hear him say we never got 280 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: out of the car. Well, somebody was shot in the 281 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: front of that vehicle. 282 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 3: It's one of those issues where one of the things 283 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 3: that I've looked at and I haven't been able to 284 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 3: verify or confirm in anyway was that. You know, Pauline 285 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: and Beauford for different blood types, So you know it's 286 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 3: if that is correct. It makes you wonder whose blood 287 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 3: that is out there on the hood. 288 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, if they swabbed it, then they would know because 289 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: the blood is going toward the windshield. There's no doubt 290 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: about it. 291 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 3: You know, Like we've discussed on previous podcasts. You know 292 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: that blood when it hit that flat surface, it has 293 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 3: a tail that points in the direction the projectile was going. 294 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 3: And they seem to think that someone was shot in 295 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 3: front of the car. Obviously that happened. But the real 296 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 3: question that I've still gotten. We'll know more about that, 297 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 3: hopefully when we see the full report. It's which one 298 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: of them it was? Was it Beaufort, was it Pauline. 299 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: That's going to be a big tail right there. 300 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: I think, well, I'm going to make a prediction, and 301 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to make it based on that blood. So 302 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: you're talking about somebody that said they ran that car 303 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: eighty ninety miles an hour all over town looking for 304 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: the blue Cadillac, right, that engine would have been hot. 305 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: When you've got blood, which is a liquid and something hot. 306 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: It will change the way that blood looks, it'll change 307 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: the shape. Some of those tails are intact. So there's 308 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: two things that should have been happening. If he was 309 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: somehow out of the car and got shot and then 310 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: was driving all over creation, those tails would have been wider, 311 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: if not completely out of shape because of the heat 312 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: and the wind. So it looks to me and this 313 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: is why I think he did the self inflicting wound 314 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: in front of that car, embraced himself, and that's why 315 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: the bullet hole is low, and you've got high velocity 316 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: spatter that is still in shape and intact. 317 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 5: I know you know as well that Jason and I 318 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 5: went through a bloodstained pattern analysis class. If you look 319 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 5: at that those blood stains on the hood of that car, 320 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 5: and Jason, you remember stringing our stringing exercise, you can 321 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 5: actually tell where that blood, the actual heights of where 322 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 5: that blood came from, if they can, if they can 323 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 5: study that, I don't remember what they had to do. 324 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 5: It really had to do that, because I've never strained 325 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 5: a seen But you can actually do that now and 326 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 5: see how maybe how high the bullets or the blood 327 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 5: was coming from whoever it came from if it could 328 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 5: be that could be a tail tale to say, well, 329 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 5: if it's six foot high, well that's a pretty good 330 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 5: idea that it didn't come from Pauline, you could have 331 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 5: come from Buford. 332 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 333 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: Well, the other thing that's important to mention too, is 334 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 2: that based on Buford's account, this whole thing happened inside 335 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: of the car. They were struck inside the car. It 336 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 2: might correct me if I'm wrong. So, therefore that blood 337 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: is and we all agree on this, there's no way 338 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: in the world that that blood has that type of Uh, 339 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: you're not going to have that coming through that bullet hole. 340 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: And there's not even any blood coming through the bullet hole, 341 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: I mean, you know at all, So, uh, you're not 342 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: seeing any blood stains of blood traveling. You're just not 343 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: going to have that pass up on the hood period. 344 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: And so and and then the other thing that that 345 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 2: jumps out to me, Cheryl, and I've never really talked 346 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: to you about this, but the one thing that you know, 347 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 2: if she's laying in this car and he's and he's 348 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 2: flying through the city trying to find the perpetrator, and 349 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 2: she's laying up against that door panel, you're going to 350 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: have momentum. And and if you look at the blood, 351 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: that's kind of you can see the void where her 352 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: head probably was laying. But but you see the lines, 353 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: they're pretty much vertical. You know, you don't have a 354 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 2: lot of movement. He's around, no, not at all. And 355 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: and I think that's that's pretty telling as well. Those 356 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: are the things that I can guarantee you that if 357 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: I was if we were flies on the wall at TBI, 358 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: I guarantee you there was a room full of people 359 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: going why wasn't this looked at? And why wasn't that 360 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: look that looked at? And why are we even here 361 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: at this point? And this wasn't handled back in the day, 362 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: And that's uh, that's interesting. But that I think the 363 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: blood on that hood is key here. 364 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: The question I have for you, for you guys that 365 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 3: know about all this, is that the hood of that 366 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: car obviously would have been hot, but still it's going 367 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: to take that blood for just a bit too dry, 368 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: I would think. And of course on the inside panel 369 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: of that door, there doesn't appear to be any big 370 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 3: motion at least to me. And wouldn't that suggest that 371 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 3: possibly that less it was Buford that was out there 372 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: that shot himself, like the TBI suggested that, you know 373 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 3: he did. Indeed, his wound was indeed self inflicted. Well, 374 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 3: let's let's just imagine that it was him out there. 375 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: He gets in the car and he has to sit 376 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 3: there for a little while and regain his composure. Because 377 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 3: while that was pretty serious wound, So it's not like 378 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 3: I think he'd just get in the car and take 379 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 3: off driving. So wouldn't that have a lot to do 380 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 3: with the fact that there was no motion in a 381 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 3: lot of this. 382 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was implying that to me, that 383 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: period of time where he says the ambush happens around 384 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: four o'clock, but he doesn't call for help till six o'clock. 385 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: He is sitting somewhere trying to plan this out. What 386 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: am I going to do? What am I going to 387 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: come up with? Pauline's already dead, so now he's got 388 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: to come up with some type of plan that is 389 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: going to satisfy not just his officers, but other officers, 390 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: the district attorney, you know, and the community at large. 391 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: So I think that's when it cools down. I believe 392 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: he braced himself and shot himself in the front of 393 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: that car. 394 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 3: That's exactly what I'm getting too, is that if it 395 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 3: was him that standing out there, I doubt he was 396 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 3: standing up straight. He probably leaned over on that hood 397 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: to brace himself. 398 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, he braced himself. And that's why the bullet hole. 399 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: You can see it plain as Dallas. It goes right. 400 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: I would imagine if we could have that hood today 401 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: and we could put a rod in it. It's going down. 402 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: It's a downward angle. I can see the little half moon. 403 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 1: So to me, that's what it looked like. I mean, 404 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: as soon as I saw it, I couldn't none see it. 405 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: And it's right there in the middle of that high velocity. 406 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly what happened. Brilliant spot. By the way, good 407 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: job on that. He did kind of explain it in 408 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 2: the movie. And in the movie, you know, he had 409 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 2: a call that he had early in the morning and 410 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: she's like, well, Buford, I don't want you to go, 411 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: and basically, oh, well, let's go and we'll make a 412 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: day of it and have a picnic. Well that's not 413 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 2: the case at all. As a matter of fact, she's 414 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: on the verge of leaving him and taking the kids 415 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: out of stea eight and and how many, Cheryl, how 416 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: many murders? Is that the story where it starts where 417 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: the husband kills the wife over. 418 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: You are in the most danger when you leave. 419 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: That's that's something that a lot of people, I think 420 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 2: they forget, and those that are that are saying, oh, 421 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 2: there's just no way he could have done this. Well, 422 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 2: these are people that watched the movie and and they're 423 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: they're they're forgetting. They don't know that little tidbit, And 424 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 2: that's an important part to this story. And Mike, I 425 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: think you probably should mention a little bit about that story, 426 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: about what preceded her even getting into the car, because 427 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 2: that's that's another huge part to this story as well. 428 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 3: Well. Of course, Levon Plunk, which was Deputy Plunk's wife, 429 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 3: and Pauline were best friends, and I got to interview 430 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 3: her name by then was Sullivan, but I had the 431 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: opportunity to interview her before she passed away, and she 432 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: told me that she and Pauline had got together that 433 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 3: night because Pauline was leaving Beauford and they just wanted 434 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: to see each other one more time before Pauline left. 435 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 3: And you know said that Levaughn told me that, you know, 436 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 3: I took her home that night. She invited me into 437 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 3: the house. I was afraid of Beuford and afraid he 438 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 3: might come home and catch me there, and you know, 439 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 3: I didn't want to deal with that, So I just 440 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 3: told Pauline that I would park a little ways down 441 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 3: the street, and you know, whenever she was ready, just 442 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: to give me a signal with porch lights, something on 443 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 3: that order, and i'd drive up there. We'd get the 444 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 3: kids in the car, throw the personal items in the car, 445 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 3: and we'd be gone. So she hadn't much more than 446 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 3: got parked until Beuford passed by. Now this would have 447 00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 3: been most likely shortly after he left Dennis and Selmer. 448 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 3: At any rate, he gets home. She said he went 449 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 3: in the house and said she heard a gunshot, and 450 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: she didn't know what to do. Told me said, I 451 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 3: couldn't call the Sheriff's office because Beaufort's dad was the 452 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 3: jailer and dispatcher that night, and I knew that wouldn't 453 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 3: do any good. I couldn't call my husband because he 454 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 3: was one of Buford's most loyal deputies, and I knew 455 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 3: he'd probably life for Beauford to get him out of trouble, 456 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 3: so I couldn't call him, and she said, of course, 457 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 3: I left and I was trying to think of what 458 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 3: to do, when a little bit later, said Pete, her 459 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 3: husband calls her and said, well, you know, Pauline just 460 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 3: got killed in ambush meant for Beauford. But in between 461 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 3: those two events, Diane, Pauline's oldest daughter, she had been 462 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: living in Memphis with a Buford's sister because she wanted 463 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 3: to be away from Adamsville, wanted to be away from Bewford, 464 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 3: just what I'm told, and Pauline had called her the 465 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 3: night before and told her she needed to come home, 466 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 3: that Buford and her were having problems, and she didn't 467 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 3: say it in so many words, but I just surmised 468 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: from all this that Pauline were probably trying to get 469 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 3: all the kids there so that they could all leave 470 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: with her. And so Diane did go home. She was 471 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 3: there with Mike and Dewana that night when all this happened, 472 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 3: and said she heard them having words out in the 473 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: living room, and she heard what she described as a pop, 474 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 3: and said that she a little bit later she heard 475 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: the front door open, and she said that she was 476 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 3: afraid to go out and see what had happened, because 477 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 3: she was so afraid of Buford, and she described him 478 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: several times as a very dangerous man. Well, she hears 479 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 3: the front door open, and she tells that she saw 480 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 3: Beauford kind of half dragging, half carrying Pauline too the 481 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 3: car and he puts her in the front seat and 482 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 3: he walks back toward the house. And you know, she 483 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 3: has told people that, well, I thought I was going 484 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 3: to be next and said about that time he picked 485 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: up the shoes that had fallen from Pauline's feet and 486 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: took them over and put them on the floorboard. Well 487 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: you look at that photograph of the passenger's door. It's 488 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: opened up and those shoes are sitting there like you 489 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 3: normally pick up pair of shoes with one hand and 490 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 3: you just place them there. And I found that very 491 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: odd that Cheryl, you know what it's like. Usually when 492 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 3: you go on a trip and you decide to take 493 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 3: your shoes off and you're in a car, you don't 494 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: reach down there and play some in the floorboard that way. 495 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 3: Generally you just kind. 496 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: Of know, sugar, I kick them off, yeah right, yeah, 497 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,239 Speaker 1: And so that's the way you see him in that photograph. Well, 498 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: they're also toes going in like you would pick them up, 499 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: and that's how you would place them in if you 500 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: were on the outside of the car, not if you're 501 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: on the inside of the car. 502 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, And she was so scared that he might 503 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 3: come back to the house that she went and got 504 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 3: under the bed to hide, and she heard the car 505 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: start up and leave and that was it. And you 506 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 3: know another thing I have always been wondering and I 507 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 3: don't have an answer to it, and hopefully the files 508 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: will reveal something. But I don't know how you are. 509 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: I know how Mss Connie is. She does not leave 510 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 3: the house without her purse, and I'm wondering if they 511 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 3: found a purse in the car. 512 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: Well, there's not one in the photograph that you can see. 513 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think she carried a twenty five didn't She might? 514 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 5: Didn't she carry like a twenty five pistol or twenty 515 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 5: five caliber. 516 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: That's what I'm told as a matter of fact, that's 517 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 3: how Dennis and I met. I don't know if he remembers, 518 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 3: but I was on a website one night firing line. 519 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 3: You have a lot of people talk about firearms, and 520 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 3: there was somebody mentioned something about a little twenty five 521 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 3: caliber semi automatic can gun, and when they did, somebody 522 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 3: else says, well, that's like the one that Pauline Pesser carried. 523 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 3: And of course when you mentioned Pusser, everybody jumped on 524 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 3: the conversation about what a great law enforcement officer he 525 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 3: was and how we needed more like him. And by 526 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 3: that time I knew just enough about all this to 527 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 3: be dangerous. And this was around two thousand and five 528 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 3: or two thousand and six, and I started saying, well, guys, 529 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 3: you don't know a lot about the story, and so 530 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 3: I shared a little bit of what I knew, and 531 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 3: of course I took a lot of abuse from some 532 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 3: of them, and I had others that were really curious 533 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 3: about what I was saying. Anyway, I got off the phone. 534 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 3: A little bit later, I get a phone call and 535 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: this guy says, well, you know, you've got the story 536 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 3: about astraight as anybody I've ever heard. And you know, 537 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 3: I spoke with him a little bit, and I got 538 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 3: kind of uncomfortable, and I said, well, okay, mask who 539 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 3: this is and he said, my name is Dennis Halfcock. 540 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 3: And I knew who he was because his name and 541 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 3: appeared in the Condo News article. And so I spent 542 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 3: the next few several nights. He and I'm speaking on 543 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 3: the phone and I was over there taking down notes 544 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 3: and all this, and finally decided to just go over 545 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 3: and meet him. And of course I had this big 546 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 3: knowledge in the back of my head about what the 547 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 3: half cock were supposed to be, but I didn't believe 548 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 3: it all by then, but still yet I wanted to 549 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 3: be a little cautious. So we agreed to meet at 550 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 3: the courthouse, and you know, because that was easy to spot, 551 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 3: and you know, just to save place to meet somebody 552 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 3: that you only knew from a telephone. And that's when 553 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 3: we kind of started building a relationship that's kind of 554 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 3: grown over the years. So there you have that. 555 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what, Dennis, I got a question 556 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: for you. Do you think Louise hath Cott's case is next? 557 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 4: I have no idea. I've had a lot of people 558 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 4: talk to me about that, and you know, I don't know. 559 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 3: I don't know. 560 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 4: I have no idea. I hope they do. I wish 561 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 4: they would, because in some ways it would be his 562 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 4: chief deputy QUI. 563 00:33:59,640 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: Right. 564 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 4: He killed the Louise and told his family that if 565 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 4: anything happened to him, to not look any farther than 566 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 4: look than to Buford Pusser, because what he told happened 567 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 4: at the Shamrock and at the state line is not 568 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 4: what happened. 569 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: Well, if you read what happened to her with her 570 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: teeth being embedded, it looks like a coup de gras. 571 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: Would you agree, Jayson. 572 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I absolutely would. I think that there's 573 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: you know, my thought is is that they're definitely going 574 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 2: to look at it. I think that they would be 575 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: irresponsible not to. I think that in light of I 576 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 2: think that in light of what they've already what what 577 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 2: they've already came out and said, Uh, there's no doubt 578 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 2: in my mind that they're going to actually, for no 579 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 2: other reason just for being thorough, they will. They will 580 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 2: take a look at that case very closely. 581 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 4: Well, you know, my dad had to dig her teeth 582 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 4: out of the carpet, and the bullet that went into 583 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 4: her head went under the carpet. 584 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: Because she was already on the ground. Yeah. 585 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, it followed the followed that concrete under that carpet 586 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 4: and hit the wall over there. I don't know what 587 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 4: they did with that bullet I know they had they 588 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 4: dug that bullet out. 589 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 3: Of the wall, but you know, it's. 590 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 4: It's it's sad to say. 591 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 5: But the thing. 592 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 4: About the deal with Louise is, you know, her running 593 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 4: a nightclub and everything. There's a lot of people that 594 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 4: thought she got what she deserved, especially women, because their 595 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 4: husbands would go there and get drunk and. 596 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 5: Spend their money and then. 597 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 4: Tell tale it was about somebody robbed them and all 598 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 4: that kind of stuff, you know. And I've talked to 599 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 4: my uncle a lot about it. It don't get me wrong. 600 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 4: It is like any nightclub, any beer joint in the country. 601 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 4: Things happened there, but Youfred Tusser double over exaggerated all 602 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 4: of it. And she was she was paying him so much, uh, 603 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 4: not to sell white whiskey like they want to try 604 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 4: to make out like, but selling some bonded whiskey like 605 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 4: all the nightclubs and around. 606 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 5: That area did. 607 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 4: And uh, he kept going up and going up and 608 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 4: want more and more. And she had told him about 609 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 4: two days before he went down there and killed her 610 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 4: that she could not pay him, that she wasn't making 611 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 4: that kind of money. And she made the same same 612 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 4: mistake that Pauline made she threatened him and threatened to 613 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 4: expose him. 614 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, you bring up a great point, Dennis, 615 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 2: that's that that very well could have been one of 616 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 2: the reasons that she was leaving, and that could have 617 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 2: came up in the conversation. And quite frankly, I know 618 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 2: I'm going way out on a limb on this one, 619 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 2: but but I'm not totally convinced that she wasn't shot 620 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: at the house. And and and that's why he's carrying 621 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 2: her to the car, and that's. 622 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: Why the shoes are like they are. 623 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 2: I agree, Well, absolutely, and and and then and then 624 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: now he's got to come up with some sort of 625 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: an idea or what what are we going to do? 626 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: Now? 627 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 2: Uh, she could have been killed right there in that house, 628 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 2: and and quite and it could have been. I don't 629 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 2: think it's from the car being it's going to be. 630 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 2: It's going to be from the twenty five that probably 631 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 2: Pauline had, you know that that she's been known to have, 632 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 2: and she very likely could have pulled that out on 633 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: him and he took it from her and anger got 634 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 2: the best of him or whatever. And I'm and I'm 635 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 2: speculating here, Uh, just just for your viewers know this. 636 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 2: You know, none of us that are sitting in here 637 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 2: I have seen the report. I mean, we're going off 638 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 2: of what Mike has uncovered in his efforts. I mean, 639 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 2: kudos to you, Mike. We're we're we're putting some deductive 640 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 2: reasoning here based on the stuff that's been learned by 641 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 2: Mike and and Dennis's account. But really, I'm not, I mean, 642 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 2: we really don't. We really haven't mentioned that at all, 643 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 2: that that there's a real possibility she could have got 644 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 2: killed at that house and then taken to the car 645 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 2: and then and then he had to then then all 646 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 2: this other stuff basically just happened thereafter. 647 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: And the way the shoes are mean, you just can't 648 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: ignore that. But y'all, I think we are out of time. 649 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: But let me just one by one, Danny, I appreciate you. 650 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: I appreciate you telling us the information in the autopsy. 651 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: That's first I've heard. So I am just I'm itching 652 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: to get my hands on the rest of what they're 653 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: going to give us. But thank you for that. 654 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 5: You're You're very welcome. And if anything good, if one 655 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 5: thing good comes out of Bee for Pusser, he got 656 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 5: every one of us together in a sense because Jason 657 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 5: and I become friends several how longs have been jud 658 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 5: in fifteen. 659 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 2: Oh fifteen, almost twenty years, and be for Pusser is 660 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 2: what got us together because we were talking about how 661 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: Beef Pusser came and picked me and my sister and 662 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 2: my mom up to carry us to the hospital to 663 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: identify my grandmother that was murdered in the Catherine's Club 664 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 2: in McNary County. 665 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 5: And then all of us others had become friends because 666 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 5: of Beef for Pusster. So if there's anything that's one 667 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 5: good thing we can. 668 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: Say, oh, no doubt, no doubt. And Dennis, I tell 669 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: you being on scene with you and here your story 670 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: in person, and standing there with you and walking that 671 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: zcene with you while you point out where you saw 672 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: the glass and where you saw the skull fragment and 673 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: the hair and the brain matter. You know, that was 674 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: one of those things that again you know as a child, 675 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: I mean I admired him too. It's the very first 676 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: our movie I ever saw when I was six years old, 677 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: and you know I framed him as a hero my 678 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: whole life. So I just appreciate you coming forward. I 679 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,720 Speaker 1: appreciate your story. And again, if we had been sixteen 680 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: at the same time in that town, we'd have had a 681 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: good time. Dennis. 682 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 4: Oh, I know you'd have been on that motorcycle with me. 683 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 1: Honey, I'd have been hanging on to you. Following that sheriff, 684 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 1: we'd have told everybody. The next day at school, we'd 685 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: have had all the news. 686 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 4: I tell you, that's exactly right, that's exactly right. 687 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 3: And right after the ambush, you would have been going 688 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 3: to military school, just like Dennis, to get you out 689 00:40:58,760 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 3: to mc marytown. 690 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, they would have probably shipped me somewhere for sure. 691 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 4: I want to thank you very much, very much for 692 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 4: having me on there. 693 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: You are so welcome. It's my honor. And Jason, thank 694 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: you for being my buddy. Thank you for introducing me 695 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: to all these other men, and you know, walking me 696 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: through this case, because you and I have had some 697 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: great conversations about it, and I think once we get 698 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: all the information, we're going to have some more great conversations. 699 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely well, thank you for at least thinking that what 700 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,439 Speaker 2: I have to say or my opinion is important enough 701 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 2: to have here. Dennis, Man, I I can't say this enough, 702 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 2: you know, Mike, we're here because of you, Okay, we are. 703 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 2: And and Dennis, I got to tell you, buddy, you, 704 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 2: in my opinion, based on everything that we've heard, and 705 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,919 Speaker 2: I think we're going to hear a lot more that's 706 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 2: going to really shed a lot more light on this, 707 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 2: I think you're you're really. I think it took a 708 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 2: lot of courage for you to step up living in 709 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 2: a small area like that where you have such a 710 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: divisive situation here you've got one group on one side 711 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 2: and one group on the other. And really, and I 712 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 2: said this before on my podcast, but your family in 713 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 2: a sense, I'm not saying that you know that that 714 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 2: Louise wasn't involved in some stuff and this and that, 715 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 2: but but your family kind of got vilified. I just 716 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,439 Speaker 2: think that you've had a lot of courage by by 717 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 2: standing up, making the stand, and you've been consistent in 718 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 2: your story based on what I've seen, So I want 719 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 2: to thank you for that. 720 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 1: No, he's a hero in this thing, period. 721 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,479 Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, yep. 722 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: And Mike, what can I possibly say to you? You know, 723 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: you called me and you're like, hey, you want to 724 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: ride out here and get on a bus with me 725 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,919 Speaker 1: and Dennis and Danny and possibly Jason if he could 726 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: make it out. Honey, I couldn't have that way quick enough. 727 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: And for you to be so generous, Mike, not just 728 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: with your information and your research, but you're You could 729 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: have held this as your own. You could have not 730 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: shared it with anybody. You could be the one that 731 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: you know was Harold, but you didn't do that when 732 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: you asked me and Jason and Danny to look at stuff, 733 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: and you allowed us to be a just a microscopic part. 734 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: But I was thrilled to do it, and I appreciate 735 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: that opportunity and I cannot thank you, and you're lovely 736 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: bride enough for being just so gracious to have me 737 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: there and drive me around and host me and let 738 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 1: me meet Danny and Dennis in person and go to 739 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: the scene with the three of you. It transformed the 740 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: way I saw this case. And you are a hero. 741 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 1: You have done something that is historic period. 742 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 3: I appreciate that. But you know, like I say, for me, 743 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 3: this was all about Pauline. I felt like she needed justice. 744 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 3: And you know, I appreciate you guys because you and 745 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 3: Danny and Jason all have skill sets in different places 746 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 3: that I do not. I felt like I was on 747 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,760 Speaker 3: the right track as I was seeing all this stuff. 748 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 3: But I value people who have had a lot more 749 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 3: experience with these things that I have, and I was 750 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 3: glad you allowed me to use you guys as a 751 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 3: sounding board for some of my thoughts and ideas. And 752 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 3: you know, if you don't mind, I might say one thing. 753 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 3: You know, there are a lot of people out there 754 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 3: that are telling me that we've got it wrong, that 755 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 3: they believe Buford and so on, and up until now, 756 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,720 Speaker 3: all they wanted was proof. Well, the TBI is handing 757 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 3: it to them on a silver platter, and you know, 758 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 3: now they're still not accepting the proof. And I would 759 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 3: suggest that if they feel like Bufford is innocent, that 760 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 3: they need to get some proof of their own. I mean, 761 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:12,240 Speaker 3: we've got photographic evidence, ballistic evidence, blood pattern evidence. 762 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 4: Uh. 763 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 3: We had a time and motion study where I understand 764 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 3: the TBI, I took a a scanner, scanned a card 765 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 3: just like Buford's, tried to recreate with all the modern 766 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 3: technology that they have, and they couldn't make it work 767 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 3: out any better than I did when I did that. So, 768 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 3: you know, I would just suggest that before they, you know, 769 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 3: complain too much about losing their hero, that they stop 770 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 3: and think about what Pauling the price that she paid 771 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 3: for Buford's fame and fortune that he got to enjoy 772 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 3: for a short time, and that, you know, if they 773 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 3: want to discuss it, bring out some proof of their own. 774 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 3: And I think that's when they get a little confused 775 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 3: about what to do next. And I will say one 776 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 3: thing about Dennis I guess is that a lot he 777 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 3: takes a lot of flag as I do about his 778 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 3: last name being a half cocked. Dennis has never tried 779 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 3: to say that his folks were innocence and all this. 780 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 3: He said, yeah, technically they were criminals, they sold bootleg 781 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 3: alcohol and such as that. But what Beuford did with 782 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 3: the half cock name was to embellish all those stories 783 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,959 Speaker 3: to where they were throwing bodies in the Tennessee River 784 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 3: and everything else that does not stand up to scrutiny. 785 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,920 Speaker 3: So but for all those that hear this, you know, 786 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 3: Dennis has never claimed that all those people were innocent 787 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 3: of anything criminal. All he's pointed out is that they 788 00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:01,320 Speaker 3: were the victims of Buford telling highly embellished stories about 789 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 3: his relatives. 790 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: So there you have that glass houses, y'all. Glass houses. 791 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't think none of us want to go too 792 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: far back in time and point out anybody in our past. 793 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's got a colorful family, everybody, So that's 794 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: got nothing to do with it. To me. What's important 795 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: is he came forward. Then he came forward twenty years ago, 796 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,360 Speaker 1: and he came forward recently, and like Jason said, his 797 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: story hadn't changed, and his story's going to line up 798 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,279 Speaker 1: with what the evidence showed, and that to me is 799 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: proof positive in the actions that TBI took. But Mike again, 800 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: I just appreciate all the friendship, all the information, and 801 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 1: let me look at those pictures. It meant a lot 802 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,320 Speaker 1: to me. All Right, well, y'all, thank you all so much, 803 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: and we'll be maybe talking again soon once all the 804 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: information comes out. But I'm going to end Zone seven 805 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,919 Speaker 1: the way that I always do with a quote. There's 806 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: only two rules, that's all. Number One, we enforce the 807 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: law equally. Number two, any man call taking a bribe 808 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 1: gets his head knocked off by me. What's right and 809 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 1: right and what's wrong is wrong, share Bruford Pusser from 810 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: the movie Walkin Talk. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is 811 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:33,360 Speaker 1: own site