WEBVTT - Why Africa’s Rainforests Are Reaching a Tipping Point

0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.520
<v Speaker 2>The Congo basin the world's biggest tropical carbon sink, is

0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:18.200
<v Speaker 2>at risk if defour station doesn't stop. Bold, urgent and

0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.160
<v Speaker 2>innovative actions are needed to prevent forests from turning from

0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.760
<v Speaker 2>carbon sinks into sources of emissions.

0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Without stable and the resilient and forest carbon sinks, the

0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.440
<v Speaker 3>global goal or limiting temperature rise two one point five

0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.120
<v Speaker 3>becomes untenable.

0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.800
<v Speaker 2>The report from scientists at COP thirty is the latest

0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.159
<v Speaker 2>warning about efforts to tackle a climate crisis that is

0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.560
<v Speaker 2>already hitting African nations hard.

0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.639
<v Speaker 4>Those who have contributed the least to climate change are

0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:54.080
<v Speaker 4>paying the highest price. Our populations are hit by floods,

0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:59.960
<v Speaker 4>extreme droughts, erosion and food insecurity. Meanwhile, the funding remain

0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.760
<v Speaker 4>insufficiently fragmented, too often mistargeted.

0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.760
<v Speaker 5>Fag Monte Mazibli.

0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.080
<v Speaker 2>On today's episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll look

0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.679
<v Speaker 2>at this threat to the Congo Basin, why saving it matters,

0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and the state of the global response to climate.

0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:18.960
<v Speaker 5>Change in twenty twenty five.

0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm Jennifer's Abisaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast,

0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.440
<v Speaker 2>bringing you one story each week from the continent, driving

0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg

0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:38.680
<v Speaker 2>can provide. Our senior reporter Anthony Squisine, who's been reporting

0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.399
<v Speaker 2>the story for Bloomberg News, joins us now along with

0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.440
<v Speaker 2>our Bloomberg Opinion climate columnist Lara Williams. Thank you both

0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.200
<v Speaker 2>for joining us this week. Really appreciate it.

0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:50.000
<v Speaker 5>Anthony.

0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Let's just start with you, because I believe you and

0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I have actually been at a COP summit before, so

0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's always interesting to sort of take a

0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.840
<v Speaker 2>look at what we've seen in the past and where

0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.200
<v Speaker 2>we're at right now. Brazil, though they've just heard this

0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.320
<v Speaker 2>stark warning about the Congo Basin, maybe you can give

0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.000
<v Speaker 2>us a bit of a detail about what exactly we're

0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.160
<v Speaker 2>talking about here and what the concern is.

0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.920
<v Speaker 5>The Science Panel for the Congo Basin, which is a

0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.120
<v Speaker 5>relatively newly formed group, has decided to use the COCK

0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:28.560
<v Speaker 5>Summit in Belem to launch its first reports on the

0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.160
<v Speaker 5>state of the Congo Basin, which my area is the

0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.880
<v Speaker 5>second biggest tropical forest in the world, but it's actually

0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.560
<v Speaker 5>the world's biggest tropical carbon sink, which means it absorbs

0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.720
<v Speaker 5>more carbon than either the Amazon or the tropical forests

0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.680
<v Speaker 5>of Southeast Asia, and they've just brought to light a

0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.600
<v Speaker 5>few warnings about the health of the region, the fact

0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.120
<v Speaker 5>that deforestation is continuing a pace, and there were various

0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.920
<v Speaker 5>other threats. And I spoke to the Special Envoy for

0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.680
<v Speaker 5>the panel who estimated that it is a decade to

0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.519
<v Speaker 5>turn things around. As what's happened to the Amazon, the

0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.920
<v Speaker 5>region may become a net emitter rather than absorber of carbon.

0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Can you explain more about the importance of the Congo Basin.

0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you walked us through a little bit there,

0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.399
<v Speaker 2>but maybe you can contextualize it for the audience.

0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.359
<v Speaker 5>The Congo Basin is a very large area. It's a

0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:22.080
<v Speaker 5>little bigger than in India in total, stretches from Nigeria

0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:26.520
<v Speaker 5>to the Rift Valley in East Africa. In total, it

0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.960
<v Speaker 5>absorbs about six hundred million tons of carbon diks at

0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.639
<v Speaker 5>a year. That's the carbon DIX that's sucked in by

0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 5>trees from the atmosphere, So that's a climate warming gas

0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.880
<v Speaker 5>that's being taken out of the atmosphere and stored in trees,

0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.760
<v Speaker 5>therefore not contributing to the warming up of the planet.

0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.000
<v Speaker 5>That's quite big. That's equivalent to the annular missions of Germany.

0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.440
<v Speaker 5>Which is a relatively large emitter. In addition to that,

0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:54.560
<v Speaker 5>it has wetlands called peatlands, which store semi decomposed material

0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.480
<v Speaker 5>and in those peatlands there are thirty billion tons of

0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.520
<v Speaker 5>stored carbon, So it's pretty major. That's from a common perspective.

0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.720
<v Speaker 5>In addition to that, it's a very large tropical forest

0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.800
<v Speaker 5>area and that regulates rainfall and climates across a much

0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:15.000
<v Speaker 5>broader region of Africa. So areas as far afield as

0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.240
<v Speaker 5>the Sawhill in West Africa and the highlands of Ethiopia

0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.400
<v Speaker 5>depend on what happens in the Congo basin where their

0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.279
<v Speaker 5>own rainfalls to regulate their own rainfall seasons every year.

0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow, and we've already seen swings and uncertainty and inconsistencies

0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.239
<v Speaker 2>as far as some of the other countries go. So, Anthony,

0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.040
<v Speaker 2>what exactly is driving deforestation in the Congo And how

0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.680
<v Speaker 2>would you say it's different than what we're seeing elsewhere

0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.360
<v Speaker 2>in the Amazon, for instance, in the.

0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.120
<v Speaker 5>Congo basin is very different from the Amazon and Southeast

0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.359
<v Speaker 5>Asia where agriculture is well to a certain extent, is

0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.039
<v Speaker 5>very commercial. So these these massive plantations being run by

0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.799
<v Speaker 5>big companies and we're see jungle being raised for soybean

0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.960
<v Speaker 5>farms or palm oil plantations in the Congo Basin and

0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.279
<v Speaker 5>really specifically the Democratic Republic of Congo, which accounts for

0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.360
<v Speaker 5>about two thirds of the forest area of that forest region.

0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.119
<v Speaker 5>There's a lot of subsistence agriculture where farming methods haven't

0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.240
<v Speaker 5>changed in hundreds or perhaps thousands of years. So every

0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:17.479
<v Speaker 5>year a family will go out and they will burn

0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.920
<v Speaker 5>down and clear perhaps a hecta of jungle and then

0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.400
<v Speaker 5>you know, plant crops in that area. Now that's problematic

0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.440
<v Speaker 5>in that it's trimming back the jungle, meaning the trees

0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.880
<v Speaker 5>can no longer absorb carbon. But it's also creating emissions

0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.600
<v Speaker 5>in that it's burning all the spio mass, and that

0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.440
<v Speaker 5>in itself is problematic. So it's quite a hard thing

0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.560
<v Speaker 5>to get a handle on because there are millions of

0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.080
<v Speaker 5>people involved in subsistence agriculture in the region and to

0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.880
<v Speaker 5>change those practices is quite difficult, especially given that a

0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.719
<v Speaker 5>lot of the governments in these countries are not that

0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.080
<v Speaker 5>well run. They're fairly chaotic countries. Some of them are

0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:59.320
<v Speaker 5>plagued by conflicts, especially in the DRC, and it's a big,

0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.960
<v Speaker 5>big issue try and turn that situation around.

0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Lara let's just bring you in here. When you know

0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.640
<v Speaker 2>you've been following COP quite closely. How serious is this

0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:10.760
<v Speaker 2>warning being taken?

0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I think it's particularly salient for this top

0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.280
<v Speaker 1>which is you know, being held at the edge of

0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:20.359
<v Speaker 1>another tropical rainforest, and in the opening statement the terrelation

0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.880
<v Speaker 1>of rainforest nations, which I think encompasses most if not all,

0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.960
<v Speaker 1>of the countries in the condo basin. You know, they

0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.760
<v Speaker 1>took the opportunity to kind of urge action on deforestation,

0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.400
<v Speaker 1>and so yeah, I think at this particular TOP, reports

0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.960
<v Speaker 1>like this our front of mind. One of my sources

0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.400
<v Speaker 1>at COP told me that he is particularly impressed with

0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.719
<v Speaker 1>how many people are talking about bio diversity in nature,

0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.520
<v Speaker 1>which isn't always the taste at climate crops. You know,

0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.560
<v Speaker 1>often the focus is more on energy. But you know

0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.040
<v Speaker 1>what makes TOP COP is that you've got most of

0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:55.680
<v Speaker 1>the countries in the world there, there's a lot of

0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.919
<v Speaker 1>computing objectives, and so while there is a sense of

0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.839
<v Speaker 1>urgency and people are taking reports like this seriously, doesn't

0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.720
<v Speaker 1>necessarily mean that Regenera do at the action that we

0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:07.880
<v Speaker 1>really really want.

0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, which is always the concern, Anthony, from your sources

0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.320
<v Speaker 2>on the ground, there in Belam. How seriously are they

0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.000
<v Speaker 2>taking this morning.

0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.440
<v Speaker 5>I think that they're really looking for a big bank.

0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.280
<v Speaker 5>You know, this is how important the congurvation is. I mean,

0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.520
<v Speaker 5>this is, as Laura said, taking place at the HB Amazon,

0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.160
<v Speaker 5>which is probably the world's best known tropical forest. I'm

0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.760
<v Speaker 5>just saying, hey, this is also very important and things

0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.360
<v Speaker 5>need to be done to preserve its role in regulating

0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.120
<v Speaker 5>the international climates. So I think that's what they're aiming for.

0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.920
<v Speaker 5>We'll have to see what the reaction is where they

0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.640
<v Speaker 5>get much traction. You know, they've laid out very solutions,

0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.800
<v Speaker 5>a lot of which are as ever, are pleased for

0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.040
<v Speaker 5>more climate finance or money to be planned plot into

0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.320
<v Speaker 5>sustainable development. So far we haven't seen a huge amount.

0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.200
<v Speaker 5>I know that there has been a fund setup for

0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.160
<v Speaker 5>the Amazon itself, and while they're in some plages, it's

0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.080
<v Speaker 5>well shortened. The initial target.

0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Stick with us both. When we come back, we'll talk

0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.160
<v Speaker 2>more about what this report is telling us about the

0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.200
<v Speaker 2>climate emergency in Africa and where any support is coming

0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:13.320
<v Speaker 2>from to try.

0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:14.120
<v Speaker 5>And actually tackle it.

0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:22.640
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back. Welcome back. Today on the podcast,

0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.840
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about the stark warning about the future of

0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.080
<v Speaker 2>the congo basin delivered at this year's COP summit. Lara

0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Williams and Antony's Cuisine are still with me. Now before

0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.160
<v Speaker 2>we dig more into the solutions, Antony, I wonder, if

0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's been a few days that CoP's been

0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.960
<v Speaker 2>underway in Belem, does this one feel different? I mean,

0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Lara was pointing out the location of this, and I wonder, though,

0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.160
<v Speaker 2>with the previous cops that you've covered, does it seem

0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.280
<v Speaker 2>like there's at least a bit more urgency coming out

0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.640
<v Speaker 2>from the sources and the people that you've been speaking with.

0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.440
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think it's a mixed picture. I mean, the

0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.360
<v Speaker 5>resurgency given that the states of the global climate interior

0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.480
<v Speaker 5>rating and you know, we're closer and closer to missing

0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.160
<v Speaker 5>our targets to limit global warming, So there is that.

0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.800
<v Speaker 5>But on the flip side, you know, we have the

0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.520
<v Speaker 5>US which is not at COP and a slashed funding

0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:17.280
<v Speaker 5>and is advocating more and more drilling for hydrocarbons. So

0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.400
<v Speaker 5>I think it's really a very mixed picture, and it's

0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.040
<v Speaker 5>hard to say it's going one way or the other.

0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Lara, what would you say, Yeah, I'd say, you know

0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.280
<v Speaker 1>this this top has also faced some logistical problems being

0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.480
<v Speaker 1>held at you know, the edge of a tropical rainforest,

0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.640
<v Speaker 1>and so it's much smaller than previous drops. That's not

0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.520
<v Speaker 1>necessarily a bad thing. And you know, I think you

0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.160
<v Speaker 1>guys have been to drops before and I'm sure you've

0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.520
<v Speaker 1>felt the same kind of joy and hope. You know,

0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.560
<v Speaker 1>there's something about the atmosphere, a crop just you know,

0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.160
<v Speaker 1>everyone being there altogether. I have heard, you know, sources

0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.640
<v Speaker 1>talking about about that sense is still there even though

0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.480
<v Speaker 1>it is smaller. But yes, definitely, the US's absence is

0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of looming large though that is a sense that

0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.800
<v Speaker 1>that actually you know, could be better than them being there,

0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, considering that they're they're now almost to the

0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.880
<v Speaker 1>right of Saudi Arabia, who have consistently been a bit

0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.800
<v Speaker 1>of a sticking point in COP negotiations, and so maybe

0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:15.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a bit of a relief that they don't have

0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.600
<v Speaker 1>to deal with the US. Is like bullying tactics in

0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.520
<v Speaker 1>the neotiating rooms, and I think there is I know

0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:26.360
<v Speaker 1>from the Brazil presidency they really want to stress and

0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.680
<v Speaker 1>make this a cop for multilateralism, and so we've seen

0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.480
<v Speaker 1>that already with you know, there could have been in

0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.320
<v Speaker 1>a fight over the agenda of cop and that was

0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.319
<v Speaker 1>resolved very quickly. But we are still early days. I'm

0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.240
<v Speaker 1>talking to you now and there's only been one full

0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.800
<v Speaker 1>day of substantive negotiation. So we'll have to see if

0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.559
<v Speaker 1>that spirit of multilateralism continues.

0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially in a world like we're in in twenty

0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.400
<v Speaker 2>twenty five, Laura, when we look at the major emitters

0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.520
<v Speaker 2>right of the world, who sort of would turn the dial?

0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, who should we be focused on, because we

0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.600
<v Speaker 2>are obviously talking about the Congo basin today. Are some

0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.679
<v Speaker 2>of the remedies that we're looking for on the African

0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.840
<v Speaker 2>continent or is it some of these people who are

0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:11.080
<v Speaker 2>maybe not present.

0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I mean it's definitely people who are not present. China.

0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.080
<v Speaker 1>China does actually have I know, there's not many senior

0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.080
<v Speaker 1>people from China there I believe, but they do have

0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:26.200
<v Speaker 1>the second's largest delegation at crop after Brazil, so you

0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.440
<v Speaker 1>know they are they are there, and there was a

0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.200
<v Speaker 1>new story this week about their emissions being either stable

0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.720
<v Speaker 1>or coming down. So so China, could you know, step

0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.120
<v Speaker 1>up and be a solution I guess a part of

0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:44.200
<v Speaker 1>the change. I guess In terms of Africa, I think

0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.400
<v Speaker 1>it's about avoiding We want Africa like lot, there's lots

0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.479
<v Speaker 1>of countries in Africa that are you know, still developing,

0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and we want them to develop in the in a

0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.960
<v Speaker 1>green way and kind of stip the coal fossil fuel

0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 1>stage that all of the developed countries dot to do through.

0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.760
<v Speaker 1>And so key for that is getting climate finance from

0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, the lights of Europe, the richer countries in

0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 1>order to help stale up the solutions in African countries.

0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.439
<v Speaker 2>And just on that, Anthony, where where are some of

0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.800
<v Speaker 2>the debates around climate finance and the solutions that you

0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 2>were just speaking to earlier.

0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.839
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think the African continant is really pressing for

0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:30.000
<v Speaker 5>a switch away from so called mitigation, which is reducing

0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.320
<v Speaker 5>emissions by investing heavily and renewable energy and things like that.

0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 5>Because Africa doesn't really produce a lot of emissions. Its

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 5>big problem is that it's catching the brunt of global warming,

0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 5>so you know, typhoons, drafts, floods, and so it wants

0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.040
<v Speaker 5>more money for adaptation, which is you know, strengthening infrastructure,

0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:54.840
<v Speaker 5>putting in place early warning systems for weather disasters, and

0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 5>a host of other things, even including sea walls, to

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.000
<v Speaker 5>create you know it's basically cope with rising sea level,

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.319
<v Speaker 5>and that's been a hard area to attract finance too,

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 5>because it's very hard to get a financial return out

0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.360
<v Speaker 5>of So that has really been the focus we really

0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 5>need to focus on. That climate change is here already,

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.840
<v Speaker 5>it's effecting the continent and money needs to be spent

0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.920
<v Speaker 5>to protect the citizens of Africa from being affected as

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:20.720
<v Speaker 5>hard as they are.

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Is there hope, you would say in more capital being

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.080
<v Speaker 2>channeled towards some of those adaptation measures, then.

0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:30.679
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think there've been a number of initiatives in

0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.640
<v Speaker 5>recent years in terms of, you know, trying to set

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.680
<v Speaker 5>up specific funds and trying to steer more of the

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.880
<v Speaker 5>spend by the developed world towards adaptation rather than mitigation.

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 5>But I think also we're in a climate where the

0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 5>US is cut back massively on climate finance, and the

0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 5>overseas development fund budgets of most of the rich nations

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 5>such as the UK, in Germany, Scandinavian nations has also

0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 5>been slashed. So no, I think it's a very difficult time.

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 5>There's no the messages being made loud and clear, but

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.160
<v Speaker 5>there's a limited pool of capital to be spent.

0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course, and Lara, maybe you can just finish

0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 2>us off. What's your expectation for the end of this

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.200
<v Speaker 2>COP especially as it pertains to the African continent. Do

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you think we'll actually see a joint communicate and potentially

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 2>addressing some of these issues that we've spoken about.

0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 1>That's a great question, and I wish I had a

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 1>crystal ball. I know that adaptation is a massive topic

0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.920
<v Speaker 1>at this PROP and so what I would hope to see.

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 1>What I would love to see is yes, a kind

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 1>of joint communication on it. And I'm kind of global

0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 1>target for adaptation because I don't think we even have

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 1>one of those yet, So that's what I would love

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:46.240
<v Speaker 1>to see. I can't say if that is what I

0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>will see, because props can be very surprising.

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can say yes to that one, definitely. Lara

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 2>Williams and also Anthony's Cuisine. Thank you both so much

0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 2>for joining us this week, and you can read Anthony's

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 2>report ord along with our coverage from COP thirty across

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg platforms. Now here's some of the other stories we've

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 2>been following from across the region this week. South African

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Finance Minister Enoch Goodonguana delivered his budget update to lawmakers

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.760
<v Speaker 2>in Cape Town on Wednesday, presenting an improved macroeconomic outlook

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 2>and plans to revise the country's inflation target. And Nigerian

0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 2>billionaire Aliko dan Gote told reporters in the Zimbabwean capital

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Harare that he plans to invest as much as one

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:38.320
<v Speaker 2>billion dollars in the southern African nation. You can follow

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 2>these stories across Bloomberg, including the Next African Newsletter. We'll

0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:46.560
<v Speaker 2>put a link to that in the show notes. This

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>program was produced by Adrian Bradley and tiva Adebayo. Don't

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.480
<v Speaker 2>forget to follow and review this show wherever you usually

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.280
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts. But for now, I'm Jennifer's Apisaja. Thanks

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 2>as always for listening.