1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Hello, Allhi, man, can can you hear me? 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 2: I can? Okay? 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Goo ahead. 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 3: Thanks for agreeing to talk to me. 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: I'm recording this, okay, Yes, ma'am. 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 4: This is a phone call between Beth Carris and May Martinez, 7 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 4: Colleen Slammer's mother. 8 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 3: So what I want to do is talk to you 9 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: about the news, the most recent news I have. 10 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: So call Monday last week, send the victims sheriff and 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: at Nashville. 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 2: And what were you told. 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: That they set a date for Christopher September thirtieth, She's 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: as in the twenty sixth. 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 4: On Tuesday September thirtieth, twenty twenty five, just before the 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 4: fourth episode of this podcast aired, Krista Pike received an 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 4: execution date. It was set for exactly one year later. 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: Were you surprised? 19 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 5: How did you feel? 20 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: I very shocked? 21 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 6: Do you plan to go? 22 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Kelleen Helleen s picture of Winga. Well, if 23 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: you could speak to her would today? 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 7: Would you say anything? 25 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: She don't deserve that, she doesn't deserve me to say 26 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: one word to her. 27 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was She. 28 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: Done and couldn't face thing, couldn't even say sorry. Ye. 29 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,839 Speaker 1: I pray it happen. I really do, because I think 30 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: I can find prici to rest. 31 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 4: This isn't the first time that Krista has received an 32 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 4: execution date. Her first was set on the day in 33 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 4: March nineteen ninety six when she was sentenced. It was 34 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 4: set for January twelfth, nineteen ninety seven, the two year 35 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: anniversary of Colleen Slimmer's murder. That was suspended while Christa 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 4: appealed her sentence. Christa received a second execution date at 37 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 4: her request for August nineteen, two thousand two, though that 38 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 4: was later stayed when Christa resumed her appeals. In twenty twenty, 39 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 4: as Christa was coming to the end of her appeals process, 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 4: the state Attorney General asked the Tennessee Supreme Court to 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 4: again set a date. Following that, Christa's lawyers filed an 42 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 4: application for a certificate of commutation. Then Tennessee put a 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 4: hold on all executions for COVID. They were then placed 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 4: on an indefinite hold in twenty twenty two when Tennessee 45 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 4: issued a broader moratorium on executions. That moratorium was linked 46 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 4: to a series of botched lethal injections where inmates were 47 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 4: observed writhing in pain in their final moments under pressure 48 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 4: Tennessee announced it would update its lethal injection protocols. That 49 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 4: moratorium ended in December twenty twenty four, when it was 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 4: announced that Tennessee was prepared to reset start executions. We 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 4: were told that executing Christa would likely be a priority, 52 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 4: but the news was a gut punch for everyone. 53 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 6: My first reaction, I think. 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 8: Was just shock, like something had taken the breath out 55 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 8: of me, very literally, and I kind of hit my knees. 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 4: Christa's lawyers, Randy Spivey and Kelly Gleason, recorded this interview 57 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 4: with Christa using questions we sent shortly after she learned 58 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 4: that Tennessee had given her a date. 59 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 8: I think I maniacally screened ob tnities for a few. 60 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 6: Minutes and then. 61 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 8: Immediately started worrying about how I was gonna tell. 62 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 9: My mom this. 63 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 8: All the bad things just hit me at once, and 64 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 8: the only thing I could think, and all the dust 65 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 8: settled in my head, was that a year seems like 66 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 8: a really long time until all of a sudden, a 67 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 8: year is not a long time at all anymore when 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 8: it's all you have left right now. Halloween's coming up, 69 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 8: and that's my favorite holiday, and I'm thinking, well, this 70 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 8: is the last Halloween I ever have, you know, and 71 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 8: so like what do you do to make that count? 72 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 8: And then you know, like it's like a black cloud 73 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 8: booming over everything. 74 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 10: Were you? 75 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 11: Were you afraid? 76 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 6: I'm I'm more afraid. 77 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 8: I think of all of the I don't know that 78 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 8: I'm afraid to die, but I'm more afraid of like 79 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 8: all the the build up to it, all the things 80 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 8: that they put you through here before they kill you. 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 8: And that's probably worse for me than actually take in 82 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 8: my life. 83 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 7: Is there anything you want people to know about you? 84 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 7: Or about your circumstances or about the system that has 85 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 7: held you for the last thirty years? 86 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 8: I touch an odd question for someone to ask you, 87 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 8: Is there anything that you want people to know about you? 88 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 8: And it's like, how do I give like a summary 89 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 8: judgment of myself to everyone who doesn't know me, to 90 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 8: explain to them, like what type of person I am 91 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 8: or what I can be or want to be, or 92 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 8: who I am or what I am to like make you. 93 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 6: Not want to kill me. 94 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 4: I'm Sarah Trelevin and this is Unrestorable Season two. Proof 95 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: of Life, an original podcast from Anonymous content and iHeartRadio. 96 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 5: Hi everybody, Good morning. 97 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 4: A little over a week after Christa's execution date was announced, 98 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 4: Beth and I met over zoom with three of Christa's attorneys. 99 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 5: It's awfully cruel. Not that I want the time to 100 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 5: be shortened, but it's awfully cruel to tell someone a 101 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 5: whole year in advance to start the countdown. 102 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 4: This is Steve Ferrell, one of Christa's Knoxville based attorneys. 103 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 10: I heard a few hours later when I checked my 104 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 10: work email that night. 105 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 4: Kelly Gleeson was on vacation and celebrating her birthday when 106 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 4: she got the news. 107 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 10: Did not anticipate this coming, cried some that night. You know. 108 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 10: Then you wake up the next morning, sort of dust 109 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 10: yourself off and play in the fight, you know, play 110 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 10: in the next steps. I, like Steve, had been trying 111 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 10: to wrap my head around the cruelty of it. They 112 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 10: come to her on September thirtieth, twenty twenty five, and say, 113 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 10: I'm going to kill you precisely a year from now 114 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 10: at ten am, and I have a blueprint for how 115 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 10: I'm going to do that, depending upon whether I'm going 116 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 10: to strap you to ajourney and inject you with poison 117 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 10: until you're dead, or strap you to an electrified chair 118 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 10: and run high current electricity through you until you are dead. 119 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 4: Randy Spivey was responsible for breaking the news to Christa. 120 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 7: So we have had a practice over the last couple 121 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 7: of weeks of Christa calling in to listen to the 122 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 7: podcast because she doesn't have access to it. 123 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 4: Another way, Randy is talking about this podcast which Christa 124 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 4: has been listening to over the phone with her lawyers 125 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 4: or members of their staff as each new episode drops. 126 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 7: And so she called, and she clearly had not heard. 127 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 7: I anticipated that she would have heard because sometimes in 128 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 7: the past there have been officers out at the prison 129 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 7: that have taken some joy and telling Christa news like that. 130 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 7: That was not the case this time. There's no one 131 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 7: had told her. So she was in great mood, like 132 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 7: she was very chipper. And I told her that, like 133 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 7: I needed to tell her something. And I told her 134 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 7: that the court had had set her a date. And 135 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 7: I mean it was it was devastating, like I don't 136 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 7: I don't know exactly how to explain it, Like she cried. 137 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 7: She was very, very upset. You could hear people in 138 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 7: the back of the phone call coming to her door 139 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 7: saying Chris stry okay, Chris of What's going on Chris Sterio, Okay, 140 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 7: I had not heard Crystal like that in a long time. 141 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 7: But the thing I can most closely equate it to her, 142 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 7: there's those audio clips of either when she was sentenced 143 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 7: to death or you know, just when she's really really 144 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 7: young and she's crying like that. That was the same voice, 145 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 7: like it was, it sounded, it was. It was awful, 146 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 7: And we talked for a while. And what was it 147 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 7: was interesting to me is how quickly she turned to 148 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 7: being worried about other people, Like it happened real fast. 149 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 7: Like one of the first things she says was, I 150 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 7: don't know how I'm going to tell my mom this. 151 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 7: Her mom had some health struggles at the moment, and 152 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 7: like really really difficult health struggles, and so she wasn't 153 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 7: sure how she was going to tell her mom. She 154 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 7: was she was mad that they ruined Kelly's vacation and birthday, Like, 155 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 7: she was really worried and upset about Kelly and wanted 156 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 7: to talk to her as soon as possible. She was 157 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 7: worried about Steve, and it was awful. 158 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: Do you feel that in your engagement with Christa, Like, 159 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: are you simultaneously trying to encourage her that you are 160 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: continuing this fight, that it's not over, but while also 161 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: trying to prepare her that this outcome may in fact happen. 162 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 10: So my first day back in the office was a 163 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 10: few days ago, and so Krista called for me in 164 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 10: the morning and she wanted to know where my head 165 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 10: was at. And she has a great sense of humor, 166 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 10: and so I approached the situation with humor, you know, 167 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 10: I told her I'm sorry to hear it. She was 168 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 10: upset about me hearing it, you know, on vacation right 169 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 10: before my birthday. And so I told her that September thirtieth, 170 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 10: twenty twenty six is the day before my sixtieth birthday. 171 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 10: And so We're just going to have to win this, 172 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 10: because I'm not doing that. 173 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: When you're talking to Christa in those terms and you're saying, 174 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 2: you know, we're going to keep working on this, We're 175 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: going to beat it, Like, how do you actually feel 176 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 2: Do you feel like it's possible or do you feel 177 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: like the deck is stacked against against you and against Christa. 178 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 10: I feel like the deck is stacked against us. We 179 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 10: have a governor who has never grate a clemency but 180 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 10: I feel like Christa's situation is highly unusual. She would 181 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 10: be the first woman killed by Tennessee in over two 182 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 10: hundred years, which is crazy. She was eighteen at the time. 183 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 10: She did have a severe mental illness that was undiagnosed 184 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 10: at the time and not explained to the jury who 185 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 10: made the sun the same decision. There have been failures 186 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 10: in the appellate process. I feel like we have a 187 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 10: very very strong clemency case, and I'd like to feel 188 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 10: that the citizens of Tennessee and their elected governor don't 189 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 10: have the stomach to kill someone under these circles stances. 190 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 3: So what is the status of that petition for clemency? 191 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean it's in our office and with Steve 192 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 7: and we are we're drafting it and preparing it and 193 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 7: putting together all the pieces of it. So we have 194 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 7: an execution date now. But I think there are two 195 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 7: parts to this. Like one, governors don't want it too soon, 196 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 7: but we also don't want it too soon because the 197 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 7: world in the law is in constant flux and there 198 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 7: may be something else that comes to bear on Chris's 199 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 7: situation that's important to include in a petition for clemency 200 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 7: or that could conceivably put us back in court in 201 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 7: some way. 202 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: From the time you filed the clemency petition whenever that is, 203 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 3: does the governor have a deadline or can he grant 204 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 3: or deny it right up until the time of execution. 205 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 5: The decision can come fairly close to the actual event, 206 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 5: and different states do it a little differently. In Tennessee, 207 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 5: so far, there will be an official decision one way 208 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 5: or the other. 209 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: Do you foresee a potential possible delay or resent a 210 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: new date being set because of a challenge to the 211 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 3: lethal protocol that's in place now? 212 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 5: There are some challenges right now that are pending. 213 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 9: Starting around twenty eleven, we began to see a number 214 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 9: of problems associated with the use of lethal injection. There 215 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 9: were a number of botched executions. 216 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 4: This is Robin Mayer, a lawyer and the executive director 217 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 4: of the Death Penalty Information Center, a nonprofit organization that 218 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 4: provides data and analysis. 219 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 9: First, of all, the drugs that were traditionally used in 220 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 9: a three drug protocol for lethal injection. Some of those 221 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 9: drugs became unavailable. They were not being manufactured in the 222 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 9: United States, and a number of pharmaceutical companies objected to 223 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 9: their use in execution, and so states began experimenting. They 224 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 9: began experimenting with different drugs, with different combinations of drugs, 225 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 9: many of which had never been tested before. 226 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 4: Robin says that what happened next was awful and entirely predictable. 227 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 9: We saw botched executions. We saw prisoners writhing in pain 228 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 9: and calling out audibly looking to be experiencing extreme distress 229 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 9: and suffering, and that was really awful to witness. 230 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 4: Instead of dealing with the problems related to the underlying protocols, 231 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 4: Robin says that many states simply retreated into secrecy, limiting 232 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: the information available to the public, media and even defense counsel. 233 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 9: Many states drew the curtains shift and said we're not 234 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 9: going to tell you. We're not going to tell you 235 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 9: at all what we're doing or how we're doing it. 236 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 9: And they said that this was partly because they wanted 237 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 9: to be able to find the sources of drugs without 238 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 9: fear that those drug manufacturers would be harassed or intimidated. 239 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 9: But there's really been no proof at all that that's 240 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 9: ever happened. We saw again continued experimentation with different drugs 241 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 9: and combinations, and now we've seen some states pivoting to 242 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 9: other forms of execution, including older forms of execution such 243 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 9: as the electric chair and the firing squad. 244 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 4: According to Robin, the United States Supreme Court has granted 245 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 4: states a wide berth declining to interfere in execution methods 246 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 4: and protocols. 247 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 9: They have decided on a legal standard that is so 248 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 9: unattainably high that it is impossible for anyone to achieve. 249 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 9: So where we used to be was in a conversation 250 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 9: about what is cool and unusual under the Eighth Amendment. 251 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 9: But now we have a standard that again is so 252 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 9: very high and out of reach that those legal claims 253 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 9: are largely futile. The United States Supreme Court won't look 254 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 9: at those cases and has said very clearly, it's not 255 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 9: our business. And I think that has emboldened some state 256 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 9: officials to take greater risks. 257 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 4: After a two year moratorium, Tennessee abandoned its problematic three 258 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: drug protocol and reverted to a single drug, pentobarbital. A 259 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 4: legal challenge file just months after the moratorium was lifted 260 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 4: in December twenty twenty four argues that the use of 261 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 4: a single drug carries a high risk of tortuous death. 262 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 4: Also like other states, the storage and testing of the 263 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 4: lethal injection drug in Tennessee is now cloaked in secrecy, 264 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 4: despite the state's promise of complete transparency. In July, Byron Black, 265 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 4: on death row for almost forty years for the murders 266 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 4: of his girlfriend and her two young daughters, was executed 267 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 4: after decades of efforts to have his sentence commuted. At 268 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 4: sixty eight. Black's lawyers argued that he had an IQ 269 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 4: below seventy, He had dementia, plus a host of other 270 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 4: medical concerns, including a pacemaker. Amidst concerns that Black's pacemaker 271 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 4: would attempt to shock him back to life at the 272 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 4: very moment the state was trying to kill him, a 273 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 4: legal battle kicked off over its removal. Ultimately, the state 274 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 4: declined to allow a local hospital to remove the pacemaker 275 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 4: prior to execution by lethal injection. 276 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 9: By every account we've heard that mister Black suffered pain 277 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 9: and suffering during his execution. It also emphasizes the importance 278 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 9: of having media witnesses in the chamber, independent witnesses who 279 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 9: can report on their observations of the the anomalies that 280 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 9: so often occur during these executions. If we simply listen 281 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 9: to the state officials, we would have a very different narrative. 282 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 9: They often tell us nothing went wrong at all. 283 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 4: Following Black's execution, his lawyer, Kelly Henry, released a statement. 284 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 4: It reads, in part, today, the State of Tennessee killed 285 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 4: a gentle kind, fragile, intellectually disabled man in violation of 286 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 4: the laws of our country, simply because they could. No 287 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 4: one in a position of power, certainly not the courts 288 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 4: was willing to stop them. And if you think that 289 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 4: what happened is just about one man, you are wrong. 290 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 4: We are witnessing the erosion of the rule of law 291 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 4: and every principle of human decency on which this country 292 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 4: was founded. 293 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: Today it is Byron. Tomorrow it will be someone you 294 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 2: care about. The people who made this happen are not 295 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: telling the public the truth. They should feel shame, but 296 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: they seem incapable. May God have mercy on their souls. 297 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: I know that he is mercy for Byron. 298 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 10: Mister Black's attorney, who did witness the executioner herself, has 299 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 10: announced that they did get the preliminary results from the pacemaker, 300 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 10: and it wasn't the pacemaker that was the problem, which 301 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 10: means that all of the rest of folks who are 302 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 10: set for executions should be worried that the current protocol 303 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 10: does not work. And I would not be surprised if 304 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 10: it turned out it was pulmonary edema that we know 305 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 10: to be caused by the way that they kill people 306 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 10: here in Tennessee that caused him to have that pain 307 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 10: for much money. He was conscious and in pain very 308 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 10: clearly for much longer than the Attorney General told the 309 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 10: court that he would be. 310 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 4: In addition to drug makers, medical experts also declined to 311 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 4: participate in executions. 312 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 5: Medical professionals take the Hippocratic oath to do no harm, 313 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 5: and clearly this would violate that oath. 314 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: Okay, I have some questions about sort of what this 315 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: date triggers now in terms of process. For Christa, has 316 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: she picked a method of execution. 317 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 10: That part of the process happens thirty days. 318 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: Out, and how do you knowing everything you know about 319 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: these methods available to her, how do you counsel her 320 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 2: in that matter? 321 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 5: I would say, with lots of truthful information. It's another 322 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 5: very cruel part of the process. We say, Okay, here 323 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 5: are these different awful things that you can do. Which 324 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 5: awful thing. 325 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: Do you choose? 326 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 4: Krista will largely live as she has been until two 327 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 4: weeks before her scheduled execution. At that point, she will 328 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 4: enter a period known as death watch. That period of 329 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 4: solitary confinement used to last seventy two hours. Under the 330 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 4: new protocols, it has been extended to fourteen days. 331 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 10: Now. They're removed from their friends fourteen days beforehand, where 332 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 10: there's the guard station literally keeping a log of every 333 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 10: single thing that person does. That person has allowed one 334 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 10: hour out on a wreck page by themselves only, and 335 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 10: then they're just monitored twenty four to seven. And there 336 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 10: are all these things in the protocol about the kind 337 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 10: of documentation that the guards watching have to keep, and 338 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 10: the security implements like handcuffs, change that kind of thing. 339 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 10: But it's very unclear to me whether Christy would just 340 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 10: remain as isolated as she currently is and they would 341 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 10: just remove the two women who are with her right 342 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 10: now or whatever. Today happens to be. 343 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: Any idea why they expanded the death watch period from 344 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 2: seventy two hours to fourteen days. 345 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 10: They simply say this is the way we're doing it. 346 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 10: Right to do it that way because we're the state. 347 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: It seems so punitive I mean, if there's no real 348 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: reason for it, why not let them have some time together, 349 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 3: you know, till the last day or so. I don't understand. 350 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 7: I mean, the purpose of death watch, for the most 351 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 7: part is to ensure that the person doesn't kill themselves 352 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 7: before you can kill them. And it would seem to 353 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 7: me that this expanded death watch essentially makes it more 354 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 7: likely that a person will want to kill themselves before 355 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 7: you can kill them, while you're trying to keep them 356 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 7: from killing themselves before you can kill them. And like 357 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 7: the absurdity and strangeness of the whole thing, we'll really 358 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 7: mess with your head. 359 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 5: Taking this person out of human interactions, sort of labeling 360 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 5: them as a dead person while they're still actually living, 361 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 5: is all part of that that the cruelty of that 362 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 5: process is this is not a real human being, so 363 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 5: we can take him or her out of human society, 364 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 5: what little society we may have allowed them over the past, 365 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 5: however many years, and we're going to put them very 366 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 5: literally in a cage to be watched like an animal, 367 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 5: and then we'll put them down. 368 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 2: I know, obviously President Trump has made no secret of 369 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: his desire to execute aggressively. So where do you see. 370 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: Where do you see this moment of time in terms 371 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 2: of the state of Tennessee and the people you represent 372 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: on death Row? 373 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 7: I feel like this is a weird time sitting in Tennessee. 374 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 7: It does feel like the machinery of death, if you will, 375 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 7: is ramping up and we are executing more and more people. 376 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 4: Along with Krista, three other death row inmates had their 377 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 4: dates announced on the same day. 378 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 7: And what's weird about that to me is like that 379 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 7: at the political top level of things, we're not seeing 380 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 7: more capital convictions and death sentences in the same way. 381 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 7: It seems like the people of Tennessee. And that may 382 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 7: be wrong about this, but it's something that gives me hope. 383 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 7: The people of Tennessee at a minimum, find it distasteful 384 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 7: and are certainly more judicious about this than I think 385 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 7: they have been in a long time. That does not 386 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 7: appear to be something that courts or politicians are particularly 387 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 7: interested in. 388 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 10: Before twenty eighteen, there would typically be at least one, 389 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 10: sometimes more deathcedances issued every year. After twenty eighteen, Between 390 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 10: twenty eighteen and this year, there have only been two 391 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 10: descenances issued, and so you do see the trend of 392 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 10: citizens not returning to do. I mean there have been 393 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 10: cases in the last year or two where there were 394 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 10: triple and quadruple homicides that settled for less than death 395 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 10: and didn't even go to trial. And then when cases 396 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 10: are taken to t wilders are rejecting the death penalty. 397 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 10: But this is a dark time. 398 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 4: Part of the reluctance of prosecutors to ask for a 399 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 4: death sentence is a growing reluctance of jurors to agree. 400 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 4: Concerns about systemic issues and the equitable application of justice, 401 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 4: including the potential to execute someone innocent, have driven support 402 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 4: for the death penalty to five decade lows, especially among 403 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 4: younger Americans. 404 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 9: Public support for the death penalty right now is barely 405 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 9: over majority, so around fifty three percent of Americans will 406 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 9: generally say they support the death penalty. 407 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 7: I think those. 408 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 9: Numbers are a bit misleading, because when you start asking 409 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 9: different questions and more specific questions, you often find that 410 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 9: people have grave reservations about use of the death penalty, 411 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 9: particularly when it's used against young people. For example, we 412 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 9: know now that the brains of young people, people not 413 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 9: just under the age of eighteen, but nineteen twenty twenty one, 414 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 9: are not fully developed, and so that has implications for 415 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 9: how culpable they are for the crimes they may commit 416 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 9: at those ages. So I think people are getting uncomfortable 417 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 9: with the idea of sentencing to death young people. They're 418 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 9: uncomfortable with the way that mental illness and intellectual disability 419 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 9: and brain damage affects behavior and affects the ability of 420 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 9: people to conform their behavior to the requirements of the law. 421 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 9: And we're seeing that reluctance translated into the number of 422 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 9: new death sentences around the country. You know, at one 423 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 9: point it's hard to believe, but we had well over 424 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 9: three hundred death sentences in a single year. That was 425 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 9: before the turn of the century. Last year we had 426 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 9: twenty six new death sentences, and we're on track to 427 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 9: do about the same for this year. But that is 428 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 9: markedly different from where we were just twenty five years ago, 429 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 9: and that I think is a reflection of the concerns 430 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 9: that the public have about use of the death penalty, 431 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 9: the many ways that we get it wrong, and their 432 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 9: doubts about whether they can trust a system that gets 433 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 9: it wrong so often and yet requires such a tremendous 434 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 9: investment of resources. 435 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 12: Very few countries, relatively speaking, especially countries that have Western 436 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 12: industrialized democracies have the death penalty. I almost no one 437 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 12: has the death penalty. 438 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 4: This is Sandra Babcock, a law professor at Cornell University, 439 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 4: an expert in the death penalty. 440 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 12: I mean, frankly, it's not just Western industrialized democracies. I 441 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 12: mean we're increasingly one of a tiny handful of countries 442 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 12: that continues to execute people. And our brothers and sisters 443 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 12: in that, you know, in that category of countries that 444 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 12: are imposing the death penalty are China, Iran, Iraq, you know, Yemen, 445 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 12: Saudi Arabia. These are not countries with which we typically 446 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 12: associate ourselves when it comes to respect for human rights. 447 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 12: European countries, the vast majority of Latin American countries, the 448 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 12: great majority of African states do not have the death penalty, 449 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 12: and don't even have life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, 450 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 12: which is considered to be an inhumane punishment as well. 451 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 12: So our system is really at the very extreme, very 452 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 12: punitive end of responses to violent crime. And there are 453 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 12: many other countries that have systems that are focused much 454 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 12: more on rehabilitation than ours is and who have lower 455 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 12: rates of violent crime in their societies. 456 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: Do you get the sense in talking to Christa right now, 457 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: like how is she doing with just the day to 458 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 2: day emotions of life, Like how is she doing getting 459 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: up in the morning and going for meals and engaging 460 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 2: with other people and knowing that she's starting this down. 461 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 10: I know we need to monitor Krista very carefully because 462 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 10: what's unfolding on a daily basis for her right now 463 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 10: in her interactions are people are asking her, what are 464 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 10: you going to pick your last meal? What are your 465 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 10: last words going to be? You have an opportunity here 466 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 10: that so few people get, which is to say something 467 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 10: very profound before you leave this earth. And what are 468 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 10: you going to say? And Christa's like, that's a lot 469 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 10: of pressure. I don't know what I'm supposed to say. 470 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 10: And so I told her again, we're just going to 471 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 10: have to win, so you don't have to go through 472 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 10: the stress of trying to come up with something. 473 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Krista, if. 474 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 11: Steve and Randy and I and the rest of your 475 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 11: team are successful, what you'll be looking at is living 476 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 11: the rest of your life inside prison. 477 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 10: What the does that look like to you? What would 478 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 10: you do with the. 479 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 4: Time that you have Kelly Gleason recorded this interview with 480 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 4: Krista on Our Behalf before she got her execution date. 481 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 6: If I have my sentence overturn, that would mean I 482 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 6: would be living on the regular compound, which would mean 483 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 6: I could get a good job. I could get a roommate, 484 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 6: which would be so weird for me, but I would 485 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 6: have a hopefully a permanent roommate, someone stable that I 486 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 6: could live with and just try to function with. Get 487 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 6: some kind of normal life going in here for myself, 488 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 6: maybe get in classes. I would like to get something 489 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 6: started to help some of the younger women that come 490 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 6: in here that have maybe been through some of the 491 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 6: things that I've been through in my life, to keep 492 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 6: them from coming back. 493 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 11: Looking back, when you were a kid, what kind of 494 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 11: help did you need that you didn't get? 495 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 2: Well? 496 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 6: I feel like as a child. 497 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 9: This is hard. 498 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 6: I think anyone recognizing when I was young doing something 499 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 6: about me being sexually abused. I think people acknowledging me, 500 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 6: paying attention to me, nurturing me, guiding me, maybe realizing 501 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 6: that I didn't long the same way as other children, 502 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 6: and doing something too, I don't know, just just nurturing 503 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 6: any talent that I had any gift, that I had 504 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 6: any bright spot in me, you know, maybe recognizing that 505 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 6: I had bipolar disorder instead of just labeling at something else. 506 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 6: And maybe if I were treated for that earlier than 507 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 6: waiting until I was incarcerated. There are so many things 508 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 6: that could have been different from so many years prior 509 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 6: to this happening, that could have sent me down a 510 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 6: different road. 511 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 10: In this case. What do you think justice for Colleen 512 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 10: looks like. 513 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 6: I don't know what justice for Colleen looks like. 514 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 8: There's nothing that I can do. 515 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 6: There's nothing I can say. There's nothing anyone can do 516 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 6: to bring her back. There's nothing anyone can do to 517 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 6: take May's paint away, or anyone else in her family 518 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 6: or any of her friends, or you know, anyone who 519 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 6: cares for her, anyone who needs to feel vindicated on 520 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 6: her behalf. There's nothing that anyone can do to bring 521 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 6: her back. So I don't know what this for her 522 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 6: looks like. But I can, you know, all I can 523 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 6: do on on my part is try to, you know, 524 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 6: the best person I can be today. I can. I 525 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 6: can try to be hopeful now. I can, you know, 526 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 6: try to talk to people in here now that I 527 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 6: see going down the path that I was going down 528 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 6: when I was young. I can try to be a 529 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 6: good person now, I can try to be a better 530 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 6: person tomorrow than I am today, And you know, I 531 00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 6: don't know what that looks like. 532 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 4: This final episode was recorded on October sixteenth, twenty twenty five. 533 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 4: Christa's team was still working on her clemency petition to 534 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 4: present to Tennessee's Republican Governor, Bill Lee. Krista had yet 535 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 4: to formally choose whether she would like to die by 536 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 4: lethal injection or electric chair. She had started to think 537 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 4: about any final remarks she would like to make. 538 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 11: Do you think it's possible that you would ever get 539 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 11: to a point in your life where you no longer 540 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 11: deserve to be punished? 541 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 6: No matter how long I'm alive, I'll always be punished 542 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 6: for this, whether I'm on this row, whether I have 543 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 6: a life stinness, whether I were to walk out the 544 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 6: gate to this prison. Because I know what I did, 545 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 6: I know what I've done to my family, to my 546 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 6: victim who have victims family. I'll live with that for 547 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 6: the rest of my life, and I have an understanding 548 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 6: of the gravity of that. 549 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: Now. 550 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 6: I'll punish myself for that for the rest of my life. 551 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 11: Okay, I'll just stop recording and unless there's anything more 552 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 11: you want to. 553 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 6: Say, I don't know. I think that's it. 554 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 11: Okay, I'm going to stop recording them. 555 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 4: Unrestorable is executive produced and hosted by Me, Sarah Chulevin, 556 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 4: and Beth Carris, mixing and sound design by Reza Daya 557 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 4: for Anonymous content. Jessica Grimshaw is our executive producer, Jennifer 558 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 4: Sears is our executive in charge of production, and Nicole 559 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 4: Pronk is our legal counsel. For iHeart, executive producer Christina 560 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 4: Everett and supervising producer Abu Zaphar