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Speaker 1: Pushkin. This special episode of the Happiness Lab is brought

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Speaker 1: to you by State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State

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Speaker 1: Farm is there. October tenth is World Mental Health Day.

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Speaker 1: It's an annual chance to talk about our mental well being,

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Speaker 1: to take the opportunity to look at the challenges we're

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Speaker 1: all facing and explore strategies that we can use to

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Speaker 1: prevent things like anxiety, depression, and product stress. The world

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Speaker 1: of podcasting is full of shows with great advice on

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Speaker 1: improving well being, so a few of us decided to

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Speaker 1: get together and pool our expertise, and today's guest list

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Speaker 1: is pretty impressive, so much so that I've decided to

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Speaker 1: refer to today's crew as the Titans of Happiness. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Joey Harden Bradford is a clinical psychologist who you may

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Speaker 1: better know as the host of the podcast Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girls. Gretchen Rubin is the og of well Being Experts.

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Speaker 1: She's written a bunch of best selling happiness books, most

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Speaker 1: recently Life in Five Senses. She also created a podcast

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Speaker 1: called Happier with Gretchen Rubin. Titan number three is Dan Harris.

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Speaker 1: Dan was a TV news anchor who, after having a

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Speaker 1: panic attack live on air, began looking into mindfulness meditation practices.

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Speaker 1: He now devotes himself to his podcast ten Percent Happier

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Speaker 1: and his new listener community, which you should check out

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Speaker 1: at Dan Harris dot com. And since I wanted this

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Speaker 1: to be an extra special show, I invited one extra

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Speaker 1: extra special guest. Earlier this year, he sent out a

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Speaker 1: very simple message on social media, checking in on all

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Speaker 1: of us. How is everybody doing? He asked. Two hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty million people saw his message, and tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of them replied all the way from presidents to

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Speaker 1: Paddington Baar. That post was made by my friend Sesame Streets. Elmo.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Elmo, how much happiness to see you again?

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Speaker 1: Oh seeing you makes me so happy to Elmo, Elma,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being one of our Titans of happiness.

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Speaker 2: I was a monster.

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Speaker 1: Well, titans are kind of like monsters almost, I say,

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Speaker 1: a monster of happiness.

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Speaker 3: So that makes imu a happiness master?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you totally are.

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Speaker 2: Are your friends happiness masters too?

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Speaker 1: Kind of Elmo? This is Dan's Gretchen.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Elmo, I'm happy to meet you and doctor Joy.

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Speaker 4: Hi Elmo, hell are you you too? It's my pleasure?

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Speaker 1: Oh cool, cool all right. So, first off, thanks to

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Speaker 1: all my experts who have come on and agreed to

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Speaker 1: be titans of happiness. I'm curious if that label makes

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Speaker 1: you feel uneasy as I've sometimes felt when I've been

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Speaker 1: referred to as an expert on happiness, because sometimes that

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Speaker 1: feels disingenuous when I feel like I'm working just as

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Speaker 1: hard on my own happiness and trying to figure this

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Speaker 1: out as much as everybody. I don't know if others

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Speaker 1: can relate there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I will definitely say that doesn't feel like a

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Speaker 4: term I would give myself. But I think I am

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Speaker 4: also reminded that to be helpful to other people, you

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Speaker 4: only need to be like a step or two a head,

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Speaker 4: and so I don't have to be, you know, twelve

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Speaker 4: thousand steps ahead to be able to have something to offer.

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Speaker 4: And so I think I am getting more comfortable with

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Speaker 4: the idea that I've gone to school for a very

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Speaker 4: long time to share some things with my community that

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Speaker 4: can can be really helpful to them.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. I would say that for me, research is mesearch, and.

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Speaker 5: I'm always guided in my explorations by trying to figure

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Speaker 5: out what's going to work for me, and a long

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Speaker 5: way I find well, something works really well for some

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Speaker 5: people but not for me, Like meditation works so well

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Speaker 5: for Dan, I can learn from that. So yeah, I

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Speaker 5: don't think of myself as somebody who's figured it all out,

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Speaker 5: but somebody who's just really interested in exploring it and

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Speaker 5: thinking about it and trying to gather the ideas and

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Speaker 5: make sense of all the research and thought provoking ideas that.

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Speaker 1: Are out in the world. Dan, does that resonate to

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Speaker 1: the idea of research as mesearch totally.

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Speaker 6: One of my little jokes is that some experts teach

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Speaker 6: from the mountaintop and I teach from the fetal position.

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Speaker 6: And I very much have plenty of issues that I

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Speaker 6: struggle with, and you know, I think a cornerstone of

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Speaker 6: my work and I see this in all of your work,

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Speaker 6: which is why I'm grateful to know all of you.

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Speaker 6: Is a willingness to be open about my struggles as

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Speaker 6: a way to illustrate that it's okay to have your

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Speaker 6: own stuff and that there are ways to work on it.

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Speaker 1: So you all here because I like to consider it

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Speaker 1: this group the Titans of Happiness, right, folks that I

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Speaker 1: turn to when I'm looking for a great advice on

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Speaker 1: how we can all improve our mental health. And we're

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Speaker 1: here on World Mental Health Day, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: a salient World Mental Health Day here in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: becaus I think a lot of us are struggling when

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Speaker 1: it comes to our mental health, and the goal for

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Speaker 1: this conversation is to figure out some strategies that we

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Speaker 1: can all use to sort of feel better and maybe

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Speaker 1: even to do a deep dive into some of the

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Speaker 1: problems with mental health that I think so many of

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Speaker 1: us are facing. And I think a real big one,

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Speaker 1: at least when it comes to what folks like Surgeon

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Speaker 1: General'll talk about and so on, is loneliness. This crisis

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Speaker 1: that we're all kind of in need of social connection. Dan,

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Speaker 1: maybe let me start with you.

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Speaker 7: What do I think of it? I think it's a

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Speaker 7: huge problem.

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Speaker 6: We live in an individualistic society that's to a certain

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Speaker 6: extent healthy, but we have perfected the art of unhealthy individualism,

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Speaker 6: and it shows up over time in increasingly pernicious ways.

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Speaker 6: We're living alone and now with technology, basically everything about

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Speaker 6: modern life militates against actual human to human social interaction.

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Speaker 6: And I believe this is one of the contributing factors

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Speaker 6: to the epidemic of mental health issues. We're seeing anxiety, suicide, addiction, depression,

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Speaker 6: and loneliness.

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Speaker 7: So what do you do about it?

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Speaker 6: Well, one of the best tips I've heard comes from

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Speaker 6: the Surgeon General himself, doctor Vivik Murphy, and it's a

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Speaker 6: counterintuitive piece of advice. In part that's why I like

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Speaker 6: it so much. It is, if you are feeling lonely

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Speaker 6: to volunteer. Volunteering puts you in touch with other people,

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Speaker 6: reminds you of your own self worth. It's inherently ennobling

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Speaker 6: and kind of, as I like to say, you know,

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Speaker 6: it helps you pull your head out of your ass.

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Speaker 6: So that, to me, is the piece of advice that

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Speaker 6: seems to be among the most powerful.

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Speaker 1: I love that because it, you know, first helps with

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Speaker 1: social connection obviously, which we know is important for reducing loneliness,

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Speaker 1: but just doing nice stuff for others is also something

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Speaker 1: that we know kind of makes you feel better too,

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a two for if you're

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Speaker 1: sort of volunteering and jumping in doctor joining your clinical practice,

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Speaker 1: does this come up? Do you have strategies that you

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Speaker 1: turn to when people are feeling lonely?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I just want to build on something that

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Speaker 4: Dan mentioned because I think the technology that we all

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Speaker 4: use in some ways, I think tricks us to believe

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Speaker 4: that we are actually connecting with other people. And in

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Speaker 4: some ways that's the case, but I think it is

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Speaker 4: easy to then forget, like, oh, I haven't actually seen

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Speaker 4: my best friend in like three months, because we just

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Speaker 4: keep up all on what's appen, right, And so I

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Speaker 4: think it is really important to pay attention to the

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Speaker 4: amount of time where spending on our screens. That is

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Speaker 4: one thing that I talk about pretty frequently in my practice,

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Speaker 4: and I'm on the podcast is really like auditing our

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Speaker 4: social media and taking account of how much time we

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Speaker 4: actually are spending on our devices, because I think it

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Speaker 4: is giving us the idea that we are way more

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Speaker 4: connected than we actually are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of I joke with my students it's

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Speaker 1: like the nutrisuite of social connection, right, Like it feels

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Speaker 1: like we're getting some nutritious value from the social connection.

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Speaker 1: But if anything, it's like the opposite. If anything, it's

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Speaker 1: often at opportunity cost of the in real life social connection, right, Gretchen,

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Speaker 1: any other thoughts on kind of loneliness and social connection.

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Speaker 5: Well, just to build on what Joy and Dan said,

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Speaker 5: because I completely agree, and I always remind myself that

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Speaker 5: IRL is better than URL, and you've always got to

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Speaker 5: like take those connections from the online version to the

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Speaker 5: in real life version, and volunteering is terrific. I mean,

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Speaker 5: one of the nicest things about human nature is you know,

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Speaker 5: do good, feel good really works.

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Speaker 3: But I think any group.

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Speaker 5: Joining any group is also a really good cure for loneliness,

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Speaker 5: Like whether that's birdwak, or it's a poker group, or

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Speaker 5: it's a book club, or it's a volunteer group, you're

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Speaker 5: meeting people at the dog walking park at the same time.

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Speaker 5: Because one of the things we know is important for

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Speaker 5: forming relationships is just seeing people consistently. The more we

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Speaker 5: see people, the more we tend to like them. The

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Speaker 5: more we see them, the more we can deepen our

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Speaker 5: relationships with them. And indeed, ancient philosophers and contemporary scientists

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Speaker 5: all agree that a key, maybe the key to a

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Speaker 5: happy life is strong relationships with other people. So when

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Speaker 5: we're thinking about how to spend our precious time, energy,

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Speaker 5: and money, you know, building relationships through volunteering, through groups,

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Speaker 5: through just a base to base meetup just really really central.

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Speaker 1: I think it's also important that we need to build

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Speaker 1: on the relationships we do have too write and we

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Speaker 1: like get so focused on like, oh, let me find

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Speaker 1: new friends. And this gets to something I know that

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Speaker 1: Sesame Workshop has been thinking about a lot. Is this

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Speaker 1: idea of reaching out? Yes, Elmo, you know what checking

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Speaker 1: in with people is, right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, Ione learned from his dad chucking them needs

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Speaker 2: to ask how people are doing.

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Speaker 1: And you had a super big moment where you checked

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Speaker 1: in on how a lot of people were doing on

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Speaker 1: the social media site X.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's rue.

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Speaker 1: What happened with that, bro?

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Speaker 2: You know what? I want to ask how people were doing?

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Speaker 2: With help from his daddy, Amma was really glad to

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Speaker 2: hear from friends all around the road telling Alma how

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Speaker 2: they were fun. It's important to be able to tell

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Speaker 2: a friend how you feel, don't you.

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Speaker 1: Think, Oh yeah, it's super important to be able to

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Speaker 1: check in on your friends.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So many friends had big funds and Alma was really

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Speaker 2: happy that they gets shaphim with Elmo.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to Alma, we also have a visit

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Speaker 1: from Samantha from Sesame Workshop and Samantha, Hi, Samantha, do

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Speaker 1: you want to quickly introduce yourself. Hi. I'm Samantha Malton.

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Speaker 8: I'm the chief Marketing and brand officer for Sesame Workshop,

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Speaker 8: the global impact nonprofit behind Sesame Street.

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Speaker 1: And so, Samantha, I'm guessing that Alma wasn't the only

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Speaker 1: person at the workshop really shocked by the reaction that

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Speaker 1: he got when he was checking in on so many people.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what that was like for folks at the workshop.

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Speaker 8: We could not have anticipated the reaction that we had.

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Speaker 8: It was just incredible, and what it signaled to us

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Speaker 8: is that there has never been a greater need for

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Speaker 8: the work that we're doing. We ask open ended questions

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Speaker 8: all the time Elmo with help from his daddy, but

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Speaker 8: this time this really touched people. The idea of checking

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Speaker 8: in on them sparked a response that was unlike any

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Speaker 8: other we've ever had. At SESME Workshop, over three hundred

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Speaker 8: million people saw his tweet and millions responded from world

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Speaker 8: leaders responding to everyday people who check on Elmo every day.

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Speaker 8: And I really believe that it's because of the relationship

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Speaker 8: that they felt towards Elmo. Is such a sense of

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Speaker 8: loneliness and people feeling like they are on their own

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Speaker 8: and it is so important to be able to check

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Speaker 8: in on a friend, a family member, a loved one.

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Speaker 8: One of the things that SESME has focused on. Now,

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Speaker 8: we just launched our Wellbeing Report in partnership with the

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Speaker 8: Harris Poles so that we could start to examine this

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Speaker 8: issue at skin Help. It's just astounding what we're seeing.

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Speaker 8: One in three parents feel that mental health is negatively

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Speaker 8: affecting their family, and it's over half of teens now.

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Speaker 8: I think one of the things that I am hardened

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Speaker 8: to see in some of our findings is that people

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Speaker 8: are much more apt to ask for help now. These

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Speaker 8: efforts towards destigmatization of mental health are really paying off,

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Speaker 8: particularly with younger generations. Gen X millennials feel much more

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Speaker 8: empowered to ask for help than previous generations.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I think we also need to open me

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Speaker 7: to interrupt you. I got excited.

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Speaker 6: There's a great expression I heard which has really become

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Speaker 6: a life motto for me, and it is never worry alone.

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Speaker 6: Is life advice par excellence. This is wisdom enshrined in

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Speaker 6: you know, sort of ancient traditions and modern psychological research.

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Speaker 6: And I love thinking about you know, this this study

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Speaker 6: at Harvard that I know all of you have heard

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Speaker 6: about the Harvard Study for Adult Development that has looked

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Speaker 6: at several generations of people in the Boston area to

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Speaker 6: get a sense longitudinally like what contributes to a long

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Speaker 6: and healthy and happy and successful life. And the one

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Speaker 6: thing that comes screaming out of the data most clearly

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Speaker 6: is the quality of your relationships. Because stress is generally

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Speaker 6: what kills us, and quality relationships mitigate stress.

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Speaker 7: So never worry alone. And this is true even for introverts.

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Speaker 6: You may not need as much social interaction as an

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Speaker 6: extrovert like me and perhaps Almo, but you still need it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think one of the most interesting things is even

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Speaker 5: something like talking to a sales clerk or saying to

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Speaker 5: a passer by, oh, what a cute dog.

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Speaker 3: That we get a lift.

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Speaker 5: Even from these like very minor exchanges with other people,

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Speaker 5: which is another reason why being socially isolated is so

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Speaker 5: bad for us. We're social creatures. We're meant to be

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Speaker 5: feeling like we're part of a community, and so sometimes

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Speaker 5: if you're feeling low and lonely, just walking outside and

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Speaker 5: just having these little exchanges with just the people in

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Speaker 5: your neighborhood, good thing that itself can be a small

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Speaker 5: but meaningful step to take.

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Speaker 6: It's just interesting, there's so much data. I've interviewed this

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Speaker 6: woman on my podcast. I suspect some of you may

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Speaker 6: have already talked to her, Barbara Frederickson, who's done all

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Speaker 6: this work on micro interactions and how these as Gretchen

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Speaker 6: was describing, talking to the barista or the sales clerk

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Speaker 6: or somebody in the street with a cute dog, this

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Speaker 6: is not trivial stuff. It adds up to real boosts

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Speaker 6: and happiness.

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Speaker 4: I was gonna say, I, you know, know, so much

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Speaker 4: was written during the pandemic and kind of right after

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Speaker 4: about how we lost so many of those micro interactions.

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Speaker 4: Right like, so I was talking to the sales clerk,

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Speaker 4: and I think we're still in a pattern of like

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Speaker 4: re establishing that, which is difficult because so many people

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Speaker 4: are continuing to work from home. And so I think

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Speaker 4: we do have to kind of train that muscle again

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Speaker 4: to kind of reconnect to those small ways we connected

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Speaker 4: with other people.

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Speaker 5: But you know, and I think one of the sort

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Speaker 5: of dangerous things about loneliness is there is a tendency

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Speaker 5: when we become lonely to withdraw. You would think that

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Speaker 5: when someone becomes lonely, they would become more and more

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Speaker 5: excited to like engage, But that doesn't always happen. Sometimes

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Speaker 5: you know, you want to pull back. It feels more

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Speaker 5: and more awkward. And as Joy was saying, kind of

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Speaker 5: the whole COVID period kind of retrained us, and so

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Speaker 5: it might feel more effortful to step out and have

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Speaker 5: those little conversation or big conversations if you've sort of

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Speaker 5: adjusted to not doing it or just connecting through social media.

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Speaker 5: And so I think there's sort of a feeling that, well,

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Speaker 5: if I'm lonely, of course I'll jump at the chance

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Speaker 5: to go to a party or jump at the chance

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Speaker 5: to go to a neighborhood barbecue. But maybe that's not

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Speaker 5: how it will feel. Maybe it will feel really hard

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Speaker 5: and you think, oh, you know, it's just not worth it.

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Speaker 5: I'll just stay at home like I got plenty to do,

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Speaker 5: and you lose touch with how energizing and important or

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Speaker 5: just like our sense of vitality and well being, these

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Speaker 5: big and small interactions are.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Nick Kepplie, who we've had on our podcast before, talks

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Speaker 1: about that we have to get over this sort of

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Speaker 1: speed bump of social connection.

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Speaker 3: It's a perfect metaphor.

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Speaker 1: Yes, friction, it's not too bad. It's like a little speed,

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Speaker 1: but it can stop you.

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Speaker 5: It can stop you totally, just having to get put

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Speaker 5: on real clothes.

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Speaker 1: So beauty of connecting over you know, like zoom or

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things we're connecting over now is that

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Speaker 1: you don't have to have real shoes. It's nice, but.

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Speaker 9: That the joy, that's the joy, and that's it at

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Speaker 9: the end. You know, Ella loves talking to out of you.

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Speaker 9: But but there's times that tangoes walk. So Emma will

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Speaker 9: be back soon, not Toitans of Happiness will be looked back.

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Speaker 1: One of my own mental health challenges in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four is worrying about big global issues. The news seems

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Speaker 1: especially relentless and grim these days. Many of us seem

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Speaker 1: so divided over what actions to take. Sometimes it feels

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Speaker 1: difficult to think about happier, nicer things closer to home.

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Speaker 1: So I decided to ask my Titans of Happiness about

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Speaker 1: this quandary, starting with doctor Joy Harden Bradford.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I will go back to intention to how

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Speaker 4: much time you're spending on your screen, because it is

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Speaker 4: very easy to fall down a rabbit hole of like

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Speaker 4: watching traumatic video after traumatic video and you look up

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Speaker 4: and it's been four hours and you feel awful, and

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Speaker 4: so I think that it really is important to do that.

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Speaker 4: I'm a huge fan of dance parties and hula hooping

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Speaker 4: in the middle of my kitchen. Getting those endorphins going

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Speaker 4: and physical activity is really really good, and so you know,

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Speaker 4: I think people joke about, like, oh, go outside and

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Speaker 4: touch grass, but being grounded and getting engaged in some

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Speaker 4: physical activity can really help to manage some of the stress.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that often feels minute in comparison

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Speaker 4: to all of the tragedies and the stress that's happening

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Speaker 4: in the world, but those little things do add up

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Speaker 4: and can provide a buffer for some of the more,

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Speaker 4: you know, difficult experiences we have.

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Speaker 1: Gretchen any reactions to that much, well.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and just building what Joy said.

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Speaker 5: I think that sometimes people feel like it's kind of

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Speaker 5: selfish to worry about our own happiness or our own wellbeing,

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Speaker 5: and we think, well, you know, in a world full

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Speaker 5: of suffering and injustice, it's not appropriate for me morally

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Speaker 5: to think about my own happiness. But what the research shows,

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Speaker 5: and I think we all see this in our own

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Speaker 5: lives is the people who work on being happier, calmer.

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Speaker 5: They are the people that are most able to think

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Speaker 5: about the problems of the world and to help out

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Speaker 5: when their community or their family member, or their neighbor

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Speaker 5: or their friend needs a hand. And so it you know,

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Speaker 5: it isn't selfish to think about our own happiness because

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Speaker 5: that's what helps us to turn out word to think

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Speaker 5: about the problems of other people and the problems of

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Speaker 5: the world. So you know, you're saying like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 5: is me doing some hula hooping going to help the world,

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Speaker 5: And you're like, you know what actually might because that

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Speaker 5: moment of hula hooping or that dance party might be

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Speaker 5: what you need to kind of give yourself the emotional

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Speaker 5: wherewithal to really engage with the bigger problems of the world.

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Speaker 5: You know, when we give more to ourselves, we can

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Speaker 5: ask more from ourselves. But just like on the idea

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Speaker 5: of like a simple hack like the hula hooping, I'm

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Speaker 5: that big fan of scheduling time to worry. If you

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Speaker 5: kind of have worry, that just kind of you know,

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Speaker 5: just take over your whole calendar. If I just say like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna worry about this from three to t three thirty,

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Speaker 5: and I get out my pen and paper and I'm like,

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Speaker 5: all day long, I'm like, I'm not gonna worry about

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Speaker 5: this now because I've got my time to worry. And

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Speaker 5: then because you know, often it's really there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of good that can come from worry. But then it

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Speaker 5: just stays contained and it stays constructive because I'm in

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Speaker 5: a mental state to deal with it, and I've got

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Speaker 5: my pen at my paper so i can write it

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Speaker 5: to the list or follow up on things that I

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Speaker 5: need to get done. So it's a much more constructive

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Speaker 5: kind of worry than the kind of rumination or just

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Speaker 5: sort of floating negative thoughts that are just kind of constantly,

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Speaker 5: you know, flitting around my mind, distracting me and draining

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Speaker 5: me all day long. So maybe it's once a day,

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Speaker 5: maybe it's twice a day, maybe it's once a week.

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Speaker 5: But I think that, as funny as it sounds, scheduling

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Speaker 5: time to worry has really.

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Speaker 1: Proved to be useful for me to love that. It

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Speaker 1: seems like you also do it with a pen and

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Speaker 1: paper in your hand, right, which might turn that worry

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Speaker 1: into something more like expressive writing or journaling, Right, where

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Speaker 1: you kind of go into problem solving mode as opposed

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Speaker 1: to kind of ruminative loop mode where you just stay

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Speaker 1: there forever.

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Speaker 5: Exactly where you're just going over and over and over

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Speaker 5: it without yeah, pinning it down or taking action.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and so Dan, when we think about stress, other

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Speaker 1: ways we can hack our body. You know, Joy talked

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Speaker 1: about kind of you know, movement and kind of dance

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Speaker 1: parties and moving our body. I'm thinking of more like

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Speaker 1: direct hacks to the fight or flight mechanism, anything that

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Speaker 1: you've gotten from your meditation practices of how we can

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Speaker 1: do this better.

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Speaker 6: Well, just a plus one. I mean, I'm taking notes here.

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Speaker 6: I love scheduling time for worry, and I am going

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Speaker 6: to invest in a hula hoop and I.

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Speaker 3: The next time we get together, we'll have a hula

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Speaker 3: hoop content.

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Speaker 6: And I also, you know, I just to totally agree

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Speaker 6: with what you were saying, Gretchen about how this is

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Speaker 6: not selfish. You really do want to take care of

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Speaker 6: yourself because it makes you a better citizen, a better

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Speaker 6: family member, a better contributor. Yes, But to answer the

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Speaker 6: question you asked, Yeah, to me's what's been incredibly helpful

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Speaker 6: to me in terms of burnout, and I'll be honest,

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Speaker 6: I do tend toward burnout. I can be a workaholic.

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Speaker 6: What's been incredibly helpful for me is self compassion. I

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Speaker 6: suspect all of you are familiar with the work of

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Speaker 6: doctor Kristin and her colleague, doctor Christopher Bermer. They actually

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Speaker 6: have a book coming out soon on self compassion for Burnout,

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Speaker 6: and I'll give you one a brief description of what

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Speaker 6: self compassion is, and then one little practical exercise. You

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Speaker 6: can think of self compassion really as the opposite of

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Speaker 6: our habitual inner critic. Most of us talk to ourselves

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Speaker 6: like a drill sergeant, and we think that's the best

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Speaker 6: way to be effective. However, decades of research into self

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Speaker 6: compassion has shown that if you can change your inner

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Speaker 6: dialogue to a supportive coach, that makes you more effective,

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Speaker 6: better able to reach your goals and establish habits, et cetera,

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Speaker 6: et cetera. And so for me, as cheesy as I

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Speaker 6: found this at first, it's been transformative. So here is

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Speaker 6: what doctor Kristen Nef calls a self compassion break, and

435
00:20:57,996 --> 00:21:00,756
Speaker 6: it's really three steps. The first thing to do is

436
00:21:00,876 --> 00:21:04,836
Speaker 6: just to be mindful of what's happening right now, like, yeah,

437
00:21:04,956 --> 00:21:08,356
Speaker 6: this is a moment that sucks. Step number one not

438
00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:13,156
Speaker 6: hard to recognize that whatever you're dealing with right now,

439
00:21:13,836 --> 00:21:15,956
Speaker 6: you are not alone. There are millions of other people

440
00:21:16,036 --> 00:21:19,356
Speaker 6: on planet Earth feeling burnt out or depressed or lonely

441
00:21:19,436 --> 00:21:21,636
Speaker 6: or whatever it is you're dealing with right now. This

442
00:21:21,796 --> 00:21:26,196
Speaker 6: is a common human condition. Three is to direct some

443
00:21:26,356 --> 00:21:29,156
Speaker 6: kindness towards yourself. And this is where for skeptics like

444
00:21:29,196 --> 00:21:31,716
Speaker 6: me and anti sentimentalists like me, it can.

445
00:21:31,596 --> 00:21:32,396
Speaker 7: Get a little weird.

446
00:21:32,716 --> 00:21:34,996
Speaker 6: But there's a bunch of data to show that if

447
00:21:35,036 --> 00:21:38,756
Speaker 6: you do two things simultaneously. One, talk to yourself the

448
00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:40,476
Speaker 6: way you would talk to a good friend. So for me,

449
00:21:40,556 --> 00:21:44,316
Speaker 6: it's like, dude, yes this sucks right now, and you've

450
00:21:44,356 --> 00:21:47,356
Speaker 6: got support and you have a plan or whatever it is.

451
00:21:47,636 --> 00:21:49,716
Speaker 6: I talk to myself the way I would talk to

452
00:21:49,756 --> 00:21:53,476
Speaker 6: my son or a friend. And to supercharge that, put

453
00:21:53,556 --> 00:21:55,996
Speaker 6: your hand on your heart, which I mean, I don't

454
00:21:55,996 --> 00:21:59,156
Speaker 6: do this with anybody watching. But again, there's a lot

455
00:21:59,156 --> 00:22:02,676
Speaker 6: of data to show that this can activate the mammalian

456
00:22:02,796 --> 00:22:06,036
Speaker 6: care system. We're very good, many of us at taking

457
00:22:06,076 --> 00:22:08,796
Speaker 6: care of our friends and family, not so good at

458
00:22:08,796 --> 00:22:11,716
Speaker 6: taking care of ourselves. But you can channel that inner

459
00:22:11,756 --> 00:22:15,716
Speaker 6: capacity for mentorship and direct it towards yourself, and to me,

460
00:22:15,956 --> 00:22:17,556
Speaker 6: that's just incredibly good news.

461
00:22:17,676 --> 00:22:20,356
Speaker 5: I just want to underscore something that Dan mentioned in Passing,

462
00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:22,396
Speaker 5: which is that this is really good for people who

463
00:22:22,476 --> 00:22:24,756
Speaker 5: are working on their habits, because a lot of times,

464
00:22:24,756 --> 00:22:27,116
Speaker 5: when we're trying to be happier or more socially connected,

465
00:22:27,116 --> 00:22:29,036
Speaker 5: we might be working on a habit that we think

466
00:22:29,076 --> 00:22:31,276
Speaker 5: will help us achieve that aim. And just like Dan

467
00:22:31,396 --> 00:22:33,716
Speaker 5: was saying, sometimes people think that they're really tough on

468
00:22:33,756 --> 00:22:35,956
Speaker 5: themselves if they are that drill sergeant, that will sort

469
00:22:35,956 --> 00:22:37,876
Speaker 5: of energize them to do a better job with their

470
00:22:37,876 --> 00:22:40,156
Speaker 5: habits if they've kind of fallen off the path.

471
00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:41,796
Speaker 3: But in fact, just as.

472
00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:44,316
Speaker 5: Dan was saying, that people actually are more likely to

473
00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:47,236
Speaker 5: re engage and sort of like try again if they

474
00:22:47,236 --> 00:22:49,516
Speaker 5: say things to themselves like, well I learned that lesson

475
00:22:49,516 --> 00:22:51,836
Speaker 5: the hard way, or I won't make that mistake again,

476
00:22:51,956 --> 00:22:53,996
Speaker 5: or that wasn't my best day. You know what did

477
00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:56,916
Speaker 5: I learn from how that went wrong? And so again

478
00:22:56,956 --> 00:23:00,276
Speaker 5: that self compassion is so important and sort of however

479
00:23:00,316 --> 00:23:03,156
Speaker 5: we might be coming down hard on ourselves it feels

480
00:23:03,236 --> 00:23:05,316
Speaker 5: like it would be productive, but it really isn't.

481
00:23:05,796 --> 00:23:08,436
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also love this idea of talking to yourself

482
00:23:08,476 --> 00:23:10,356
Speaker 1: like you talked to friend, because I feel like that

483
00:23:10,516 --> 00:23:12,756
Speaker 1: fights one of the criticisms I often get from my

484
00:23:12,796 --> 00:23:15,676
Speaker 1: students about self compassion, which is that they confuse it

485
00:23:15,716 --> 00:23:18,316
Speaker 1: with self indulgence. Right. They think that means like you're

486
00:23:18,356 --> 00:23:21,076
Speaker 1: letting yourself off the book. Even your habits have been crappy,

487
00:23:21,116 --> 00:23:22,956
Speaker 1: you're not going to kind of follow up with yourself.

488
00:23:23,196 --> 00:23:25,116
Speaker 1: If you really think about how you talk to a friend,

489
00:23:25,276 --> 00:23:26,996
Speaker 1: you wouldn't do that right if your friend was really

490
00:23:27,076 --> 00:23:29,116
Speaker 1: messing up, you would be like, it's fine, like you

491
00:23:29,236 --> 00:23:31,276
Speaker 1: do you, but you wouldn't scream at them like a

492
00:23:31,316 --> 00:23:33,796
Speaker 1: drill sergeant either. You'd get like curious. You'd be like,

493
00:23:33,916 --> 00:23:36,436
Speaker 1: I care about you, what's going on? How can I help?

494
00:23:36,476 --> 00:23:38,956
Speaker 1: How can we problem solve? And it's kind of bringing

495
00:23:38,956 --> 00:23:42,076
Speaker 1: that like compassionate curious problem solving, which is the thing

496
00:23:42,116 --> 00:23:44,836
Speaker 1: we naturally do with our care system for friends. We

497
00:23:44,996 --> 00:23:46,716
Speaker 1: just like rarely apply it to ourselves.

498
00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:49,276
Speaker 6: And if you want to get granular about positive self talk,

499
00:23:49,316 --> 00:23:51,796
Speaker 6: there's been some research done by Ethan Cross at the

500
00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:54,556
Speaker 6: University of Michigan. He wrote a book called Chatter by

501
00:23:54,596 --> 00:23:56,956
Speaker 6: the Way that's that's very good. And he has shown

502
00:23:56,996 --> 00:23:59,716
Speaker 6: that if you use your own name when you're talking

503
00:23:59,716 --> 00:24:03,556
Speaker 6: to yourself, it actually provides some distance that is helpful.

504
00:24:03,836 --> 00:24:08,156
Speaker 6: So Gretchen X and Y reassuring notions, if you just

505
00:24:08,196 --> 00:24:11,356
Speaker 6: put Gretchen before the reassuring notions, it can help. I

506
00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:14,516
Speaker 6: often say dude or bro because I'm you know, like ridiculous.

507
00:24:16,996 --> 00:24:18,876
Speaker 1: So now we're going to jump into something else that,

508
00:24:19,076 --> 00:24:21,076
Speaker 1: at least for me, it becomes a problem with my

509
00:24:21,076 --> 00:24:22,556
Speaker 1: own mental health. So I assume this is the kind

510
00:24:22,556 --> 00:24:24,596
Speaker 1: of thing the world is facing as well, which is

511
00:24:24,596 --> 00:24:26,876
Speaker 1: that it seems like it's harder and harder to just

512
00:24:27,036 --> 00:24:28,996
Speaker 1: be present. I was talking with a friend the other

513
00:24:29,076 --> 00:24:31,396
Speaker 1: day who was saying that she just feels like she's

514
00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:34,596
Speaker 1: always in due mode, and it just feels really impossible,

515
00:24:34,716 --> 00:24:37,796
Speaker 1: especially today, just to be in like being mode, where

516
00:24:37,796 --> 00:24:40,276
Speaker 1: she's just kind of like existing in the world without

517
00:24:40,636 --> 00:24:42,836
Speaker 1: that constant to do list in her head or kind

518
00:24:42,876 --> 00:24:45,316
Speaker 1: of beating herself up, or just feeling like there's more

519
00:24:45,356 --> 00:24:47,636
Speaker 1: and more to be done. Dan, I know this is

520
00:24:47,636 --> 00:24:49,996
Speaker 1: something you talk about a lot on the podcast and

521
00:24:50,036 --> 00:24:52,556
Speaker 1: in your work. Any suggestions for us.

522
00:24:52,636 --> 00:24:55,636
Speaker 6: Okay, well, I'm kind of known as mister meditation now.

523
00:24:55,676 --> 00:24:59,796
Speaker 6: But I really try to be very flexible and non

524
00:24:59,876 --> 00:25:03,996
Speaker 6: dogmatic in my evangelizing for this practice, because I have

525
00:25:04,076 --> 00:25:07,596
Speaker 6: a ton of sympathy for people who feel time starved.

526
00:25:07,876 --> 00:25:10,436
Speaker 6: I feel that way myself, and so I don't want

527
00:25:10,516 --> 00:25:14,716
Speaker 6: people to think that if they are interested in experimenting

528
00:25:14,756 --> 00:25:17,556
Speaker 6: with meditation, that it's going to be some big stressful

529
00:25:17,596 --> 00:25:19,676
Speaker 6: thing they need to add to their to do list.

530
00:25:20,156 --> 00:25:22,996
Speaker 6: As we know, Gretchen really is the expert here in

531
00:25:23,036 --> 00:25:25,676
Speaker 6: habit formation. But as we know, or at least as

532
00:25:25,676 --> 00:25:29,036
Speaker 6: I think I know from the data around human behavior

533
00:25:29,116 --> 00:25:31,396
Speaker 6: change and habit formation, one of the best ways to

534
00:25:31,476 --> 00:25:35,396
Speaker 6: start is to start small. And so my little mantras

535
00:25:35,516 --> 00:25:40,476
Speaker 6: or slogans on this score are one minute counts and

536
00:25:40,876 --> 00:25:46,076
Speaker 6: daily ish. So what you want is to start inserting

537
00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:50,596
Speaker 6: these little moments of mindfulness, of calm, of non doing,

538
00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:54,636
Speaker 6: of just being into your day in a very gentle way.

539
00:25:54,916 --> 00:25:57,396
Speaker 6: It's okay if you miss a week, it's okay if

540
00:25:57,396 --> 00:26:01,196
Speaker 6: you miss a year. You can always start again. And interestingly,

541
00:26:01,676 --> 00:26:02,996
Speaker 6: and we can talk a little bit more about the

542
00:26:03,036 --> 00:26:05,876
Speaker 6: mechanics of meditation if you want, but I'm really focusing

543
00:26:05,996 --> 00:26:08,996
Speaker 6: in this first answer on the habit formation part of it.

544
00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:11,236
Speaker 7: I don't have time for it concern.

545
00:26:11,396 --> 00:26:15,116
Speaker 6: I think actually that falling off the wagon is a

546
00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:17,396
Speaker 6: real opportunity. I get people who tell me all the time,

547
00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:20,916
Speaker 6: I can't be consistent with this, but those times when

548
00:26:20,996 --> 00:26:24,236
Speaker 6: you are no longer meditating, that is an opportunity to

549
00:26:24,636 --> 00:26:28,916
Speaker 6: notice the increasing toxicity in your mind and use that

550
00:26:28,996 --> 00:26:33,116
Speaker 6: to fuel intrinsic motivation to go back to the practice.

551
00:26:33,156 --> 00:26:36,836
Speaker 6: Because extrinsic motivation, a person like me wagging his finger

552
00:26:36,876 --> 00:26:40,476
Speaker 6: at you is way less powerful than intrinsic motivation, and

553
00:26:40,636 --> 00:26:42,356
Speaker 6: that can get you back on the cushion.

554
00:26:42,516 --> 00:26:45,396
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really love this advice that it can be small,

555
00:26:45,476 --> 00:26:46,956
Speaker 1: because I think for a lot of us, when we

556
00:26:46,956 --> 00:26:50,196
Speaker 1: think about developing a meditation practice, it feels like we're

557
00:26:50,396 --> 00:26:52,276
Speaker 1: like about to start running a marathon. Right, It's just

558
00:26:52,316 --> 00:26:53,756
Speaker 1: another thing on my to do list. I got to

559
00:26:53,756 --> 00:26:56,036
Speaker 1: do it twenty minutes every day. And that idea that

560
00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:59,076
Speaker 1: like one minute is enough or even like just a

561
00:26:59,116 --> 00:27:00,396
Speaker 1: deep beller breath, like a.

562
00:27:01,956 --> 00:27:05,116
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dotty breasts. IMA's really good at those. Oh,

563
00:27:05,116 --> 00:27:05,956
Speaker 2: can i'man do one?

564
00:27:06,196 --> 00:27:06,396
Speaker 3: Yes?

565
00:27:06,516 --> 00:27:09,716
Speaker 1: Yes, that's great. Do you want to try Amy's up together?

566
00:27:09,876 --> 00:27:12,276
Speaker 2: Okay, first you put your hands on your belly like this,

567
00:27:12,996 --> 00:27:18,356
Speaker 2: take a slow, deep brip in through your nose and

568
00:27:18,436 --> 00:27:24,796
Speaker 2: a snow deep breath out through your mouth, and if

569
00:27:24,836 --> 00:27:27,516
Speaker 2: you do that a couple of times, you'll feel really calm.

570
00:27:27,756 --> 00:27:28,036
Speaker 3: Elmo.

571
00:27:28,156 --> 00:27:29,916
Speaker 4: Do you ever feel sad or angry?

572
00:27:30,836 --> 00:27:31,036
Speaker 8: Yes?

573
00:27:31,156 --> 00:27:35,756
Speaker 2: Sometimes Emma doesn't love feeling angry or sad, though, you know, Emma,

574
00:27:35,796 --> 00:27:37,756
Speaker 2: what does feeling to just go right around?

575
00:27:37,836 --> 00:27:40,356
Speaker 1: So, Samantha, I know Sasame Workshop is putting together all

576
00:27:40,436 --> 00:27:42,836
Speaker 1: kinds of resources to help people with their mental health

577
00:27:42,836 --> 00:27:45,876
Speaker 1: and emotional wellbeing. Do you have any strategies you really recommend?

578
00:27:45,996 --> 00:27:49,836
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, we have a really easy three step strategy.

579
00:27:49,996 --> 00:27:55,076
Speaker 8: We say, I notice, yep, Elmon notices I feel Elmo

580
00:27:55,196 --> 00:28:01,196
Speaker 8: feels and I can't Ema. Can I notice means start

581
00:28:01,276 --> 00:28:03,956
Speaker 8: to feel what's going on in your body? Are you

582
00:28:03,956 --> 00:28:05,556
Speaker 8: getting butterflies in your stomach?

583
00:28:06,196 --> 00:28:06,676
Speaker 2: Yeah?

584
00:28:06,796 --> 00:28:08,436
Speaker 1: I feel name.

585
00:28:08,516 --> 00:28:12,596
Speaker 8: That What is that butterflies feeling? Is it nervousness? Is

586
00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:16,916
Speaker 8: it excitement? And then I can how to manage through

587
00:28:16,996 --> 00:28:20,396
Speaker 8: that emotion. So we could do some belly breathing, just

588
00:28:20,436 --> 00:28:21,876
Speaker 8: like Elmo taught us how to do.

589
00:28:22,196 --> 00:28:23,636
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think?

590
00:28:25,476 --> 00:28:27,516
Speaker 4: I think that that's such a cool idea and a

591
00:28:27,556 --> 00:28:29,676
Speaker 4: great way, especially for young people to be able to

592
00:28:29,716 --> 00:28:33,236
Speaker 4: practice this being grounded in the present moment. And I think,

593
00:28:33,676 --> 00:28:36,076
Speaker 4: you know, when I think about like my childhood, I

594
00:28:36,076 --> 00:28:40,356
Speaker 4: don't remember any lessons on like meditation and like slowing down.

595
00:28:40,756 --> 00:28:42,516
Speaker 4: And so it's so cool that like my kids are

596
00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:44,756
Speaker 4: talking about that in school, and like Sesame is doing

597
00:28:44,756 --> 00:28:47,236
Speaker 4: this kind of thing, because I think, going back to

598
00:28:47,276 --> 00:28:49,676
Speaker 4: our conversation about self compassion, like I think we get

599
00:28:49,796 --> 00:28:51,796
Speaker 4: very critical that we can't do this thing that we

600
00:28:51,876 --> 00:28:53,916
Speaker 4: know will help us, but so many of us have

601
00:28:54,036 --> 00:28:55,836
Speaker 4: not been taught to do that, and so I think

602
00:28:55,836 --> 00:28:58,636
Speaker 4: it really is a very tangible and like concrete way

603
00:28:58,956 --> 00:29:02,436
Speaker 4: to give voice to this thing that often feels very abstract.

604
00:29:02,556 --> 00:29:03,996
Speaker 1: So I know, Dan, you've done a lot of work

605
00:29:03,996 --> 00:29:06,956
Speaker 1: teaching people to meditate, especially teaching folks who've never made

606
00:29:06,956 --> 00:29:09,036
Speaker 1: it taked before, or maybe even are scared of meditation

607
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:11,876
Speaker 1: or cynical about meditation, to meditate. If somebody's listening to

608
00:29:11,916 --> 00:29:13,876
Speaker 1: this on World Mental Health Day and wants to try

609
00:29:13,876 --> 00:29:16,356
Speaker 1: out meditation for the first time, what's the first step?

610
00:29:16,476 --> 00:29:19,196
Speaker 6: The skeptics, the time starve, the people who think this

611
00:29:19,236 --> 00:29:23,036
Speaker 6: is not for me, those are my people. So I

612
00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:26,596
Speaker 6: am not going to give you some long treatise on meditation.

613
00:29:26,676 --> 00:29:28,916
Speaker 6: I'm just going to give you a very brief description

614
00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:34,556
Speaker 6: on how one can do beginning mindfulness meditation. There are

615
00:29:34,596 --> 00:29:37,356
Speaker 6: really only three steps. The first is to find a

616
00:29:37,356 --> 00:29:41,076
Speaker 6: reasonably comfortable position in a reasonably quiet place, close your eyes.

617
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:46,076
Speaker 6: Second step is to bring your full attention to the

618
00:29:46,116 --> 00:29:48,436
Speaker 6: feeling of your breath coming in and going out. You

619
00:29:48,436 --> 00:29:51,716
Speaker 6: don't have to breathe in any special way, just feel

620
00:29:52,116 --> 00:29:56,916
Speaker 6: the raw data of the physical sensations of your belly

621
00:29:56,996 --> 00:30:00,596
Speaker 6: rising and falling, or the air entering and exiting your nose.

622
00:30:01,276 --> 00:30:04,316
Speaker 6: Some people don't like feeling the breath. If that's you,

623
00:30:04,316 --> 00:30:06,796
Speaker 6: you can just feel the sensations of your full body

624
00:30:06,836 --> 00:30:10,596
Speaker 6: sitting in the chair, or you can focus on sounds

625
00:30:10,596 --> 00:30:15,156
Speaker 6: in the environment. Really just picking something neutral, something sense based,

626
00:30:15,836 --> 00:30:18,556
Speaker 6: to commit to for a couple of minutes or even

627
00:30:18,636 --> 00:30:20,876
Speaker 6: just a minute. And then the third step is the

628
00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:23,676
Speaker 6: most important for most of us. As soon as we

629
00:30:23,756 --> 00:30:27,556
Speaker 6: try to do this seemingly easy thing of just like

630
00:30:27,596 --> 00:30:29,556
Speaker 6: feeling the breath coming in and going out, or feeling

631
00:30:29,556 --> 00:30:31,596
Speaker 6: what it's like to be sitting in a chair, the

632
00:30:31,636 --> 00:30:34,156
Speaker 6: mind goes into mutiny. Mode, and you start like, you know,

633
00:30:34,236 --> 00:30:36,076
Speaker 6: what's for lunch? Do I need a haircut? Where do

634
00:30:36,196 --> 00:30:37,036
Speaker 6: gerbils run wild?

635
00:30:37,076 --> 00:30:37,356
Speaker 7: Whatever?

636
00:30:37,596 --> 00:30:41,036
Speaker 6: All these random thoughts start flitting through the mind. And

637
00:30:41,116 --> 00:30:43,836
Speaker 6: this is the moment when most people believe they have

638
00:30:43,956 --> 00:30:48,716
Speaker 6: failed at meditation. In fact, this is the moment that

639
00:30:48,796 --> 00:30:51,756
Speaker 6: proves that you are succeeding. Because the whole game in

640
00:30:51,836 --> 00:30:54,676
Speaker 6: meditation is not to achieve some sort of special state.

641
00:30:54,996 --> 00:30:58,676
Speaker 6: As I often joke, clearing the mind is impossible unless

642
00:30:58,676 --> 00:31:01,876
Speaker 6: you're enlightened or you've died. The whole goal in meditation

643
00:31:02,076 --> 00:31:04,636
Speaker 6: is just to notice when you've become distracted and to

644
00:31:04,676 --> 00:31:09,116
Speaker 6: start again, and again and again. And this beginning again

645
00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:12,076
Speaker 6: is like a bicep curl for your brain. It shows

646
00:31:12,156 --> 00:31:14,876
Speaker 6: up on the brain scans of people who meditate. And

647
00:31:14,996 --> 00:31:18,436
Speaker 6: why it's important is every time you notice how wild

648
00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:21,876
Speaker 6: your mind is, you get more familiar with the nature

649
00:31:21,916 --> 00:31:26,676
Speaker 6: of your mind and therefore less owned by every random

650
00:31:26,956 --> 00:31:29,876
Speaker 6: thought or urge or emotion that overtakes you. And so

651
00:31:30,036 --> 00:31:33,796
Speaker 6: this is very simple, but not easy practice can have

652
00:31:33,916 --> 00:31:35,436
Speaker 6: radical implications.

653
00:31:36,116 --> 00:31:38,196
Speaker 7: I got Gretchen to meditate after years of trying.

654
00:31:38,196 --> 00:31:39,476
Speaker 3: It doesn't work for me.

655
00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:42,036
Speaker 5: It's not a tool that works for me, I had

656
00:31:42,076 --> 00:31:43,556
Speaker 5: tried it a couple of times, and I tried it

657
00:31:43,676 --> 00:31:48,156
Speaker 5: twice more because Dan is so persuasive, But I don't

658
00:31:48,276 --> 00:31:49,636
Speaker 5: know tool fits every hand.

659
00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:51,436
Speaker 7: That's true, that's true.

660
00:31:51,676 --> 00:31:53,596
Speaker 1: But Gretchen, it strikes me that a lot of your

661
00:31:53,676 --> 00:31:56,596
Speaker 1: sensory work is a form of meditation. Right Like when

662
00:31:56,596 --> 00:31:59,236
Speaker 1: you talk about kind of walking around, kind of experiencing

663
00:31:59,276 --> 00:32:02,156
Speaker 1: the world and smelling, that's kind of a mindful walk too.

664
00:32:02,276 --> 00:32:06,516
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, here's the thing, and we may disagree, but Dan,

665
00:32:06,636 --> 00:32:12,196
Speaker 5: to me, an essential part of meditation is to discipline

666
00:32:12,196 --> 00:32:15,916
Speaker 5: the mind. You're asking your mind to try to do something.

667
00:32:16,716 --> 00:32:19,636
Speaker 5: And when I'm doing it, I'm just roaming free. I'm

668
00:32:19,676 --> 00:32:22,396
Speaker 5: letting my mind off the leachs. I'm just the dog

669
00:32:22,516 --> 00:32:25,756
Speaker 5: following the smells through the forest. I'm not trying to

670
00:32:26,876 --> 00:32:30,356
Speaker 5: do anything specific. And so to me, those two things

671
00:32:30,356 --> 00:32:31,116
Speaker 5: feel very different.

672
00:32:31,156 --> 00:32:32,876
Speaker 7: Wait. Wait, I got it. I gotta respond to that.

673
00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:36,116
Speaker 5: I gotta Dan and I have gone over and back

674
00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:38,116
Speaker 5: and back and forth because he wants to claim that

675
00:32:38,236 --> 00:32:40,796
Speaker 5: everything is meditation, but there has to be something that

676
00:32:40,876 --> 00:32:41,156
Speaker 5: is not.

677
00:32:41,316 --> 00:32:44,196
Speaker 6: No, I don't feel also a mental I don't feel

678
00:32:44,196 --> 00:32:46,556
Speaker 6: like everything's meditation. If you're sitting down and making the

679
00:32:46,556 --> 00:32:49,876
Speaker 6: affirmative decision to plan lunch. That's not meditation, Like I

680
00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:52,356
Speaker 6: get it. That's using thought, which is great, that's a

681
00:32:52,356 --> 00:32:54,236
Speaker 6: beautiful thing. It's but it's not meditation.

682
00:32:54,356 --> 00:32:57,316
Speaker 3: What about daydreaming? Is daydreaming meditation?

683
00:32:57,396 --> 00:33:01,356
Speaker 5: Now I'm daydreaming and tuning into Central Park, and I'm

684
00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:04,636
Speaker 5: just wandering in and out of my own thoughts, the sky,

685
00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:09,956
Speaker 5: the leaves, my lunch, my calendar, the moss.

686
00:33:10,476 --> 00:33:11,236
Speaker 3: Is that meditation?

687
00:33:11,476 --> 00:33:11,756
Speaker 7: Okay?

688
00:33:11,796 --> 00:33:16,516
Speaker 6: But see there's a conflation in there, the thoughts, the daydreaming,

689
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:18,556
Speaker 6: which I think is a beautiful thing. I'm not anti thought.

690
00:33:18,596 --> 00:33:20,836
Speaker 6: I think daydreaming can be amazing. It's where a lot

691
00:33:20,836 --> 00:33:24,396
Speaker 6: of creativity comes from. So, don't get me wrong. But

692
00:33:25,116 --> 00:33:29,156
Speaker 6: what you're dropping in there are deliberate attempts to get

693
00:33:29,196 --> 00:33:33,236
Speaker 6: in touch with your senses, the sights, the sounds, the smells.

694
00:33:33,716 --> 00:33:37,676
Speaker 6: That is mindfulness, that is dropping below the level of discursive,

695
00:33:37,916 --> 00:33:41,236
Speaker 6: often repetitive and negative thought and getting in touch with

696
00:33:41,356 --> 00:33:44,236
Speaker 6: the raw data of your senses. To me, that is

697
00:33:44,316 --> 00:33:49,116
Speaker 6: definitionally mindfulness. And so and I take a lot less

698
00:33:49,436 --> 00:33:53,676
Speaker 6: militaristic view of meditation, where you know you're sitting in

699
00:33:53,676 --> 00:33:57,116
Speaker 6: some special position, and some zen monk is smacking with

700
00:33:57,156 --> 00:33:59,076
Speaker 6: you with a stick of metime you falls like that,

701
00:33:59,076 --> 00:34:02,876
Speaker 6: That's not how I roll. And so just dipping below

702
00:34:02,956 --> 00:34:06,276
Speaker 6: the level of thinking is a kind of meditation. And

703
00:34:06,316 --> 00:34:08,956
Speaker 6: your walks through the park or your daily walks through

704
00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:13,756
Speaker 6: the museums in New York City like that has meditation elements.

705
00:34:14,116 --> 00:34:18,276
Speaker 6: You're just doing what works for you, and that is perfect.

706
00:34:18,356 --> 00:34:21,956
Speaker 6: What works for you is always perfect, okay.

707
00:34:21,836 --> 00:34:25,636
Speaker 1: All right, And both of those have the feature that

708
00:34:25,716 --> 00:34:28,156
Speaker 1: I think we're trying to achieve with meditation, right, which

709
00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:31,916
Speaker 1: is that we are kind of both non judgmentally noticing

710
00:34:31,956 --> 00:34:35,036
Speaker 1: our thoughts and in an ideal world kind of practicing

711
00:34:35,076 --> 00:34:38,356
Speaker 1: to control them, like practicing to kind of move them

712
00:34:38,396 --> 00:34:41,436
Speaker 1: in a direction that feels a little bit healthier and

713
00:34:41,596 --> 00:34:44,636
Speaker 1: like functionally, that's very consistent with a lot of therapeutic

714
00:34:44,676 --> 00:34:47,876
Speaker 1: practices too, where you're kind of non judgmentally noticing your thoughts,

715
00:34:47,996 --> 00:34:50,676
Speaker 1: maybe trying to move your thoughts in another direct and

716
00:34:50,756 --> 00:34:52,716
Speaker 1: enjoy I see you nodding. This is kind of the

717
00:34:52,756 --> 00:34:54,556
Speaker 1: type of thing you do in your practice. A bunch of.

718
00:34:54,756 --> 00:34:56,676
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think you know, really, so much

719
00:34:56,676 --> 00:34:58,956
Speaker 4: of it is about being present, right, And I love

720
00:34:59,036 --> 00:35:01,836
Speaker 4: that you had this beautiful I think disagreement in some

721
00:35:01,916 --> 00:35:04,796
Speaker 4: ways around like what is meditation and withs and that,

722
00:35:05,156 --> 00:35:06,716
Speaker 4: because I think that that is a part of what

723
00:35:06,836 --> 00:35:09,596
Speaker 4: has made mindfulness and meditation feel very in it accessible

724
00:35:09,636 --> 00:35:10,356
Speaker 4: for a lot of people.

725
00:35:10,396 --> 00:35:13,356
Speaker 1: This idea that it can only look one way when we.

726
00:35:13,276 --> 00:35:15,396
Speaker 4: Are having a conversation, that lets us know that it

727
00:35:15,396 --> 00:35:17,836
Speaker 4: can look lots of different ways, right, and so getting

728
00:35:17,836 --> 00:35:20,956
Speaker 4: in touch with our senses doing a five minute breathing exercise,

729
00:35:20,996 --> 00:35:22,716
Speaker 4: I can can look a lot of different ways. And

730
00:35:22,796 --> 00:35:25,116
Speaker 4: so it really is a trial and error of finding

731
00:35:25,116 --> 00:35:27,236
Speaker 4: the thing that works for you so that you can

732
00:35:27,276 --> 00:35:28,556
Speaker 4: access it when you feel like.

733
00:35:28,516 --> 00:35:30,436
Speaker 7: You need it. Doctor Joy for the when.

734
00:35:33,036 --> 00:35:35,356
Speaker 1: Hey, Elmo, can you help us out with an ad break?

735
00:35:35,716 --> 00:35:37,756
Speaker 2: Of course, Doctor Louie, but tell me a lot of

736
00:35:37,796 --> 00:35:40,676
Speaker 2: break now, but don't go anywhere. That tell me is

737
00:35:40,716 --> 00:35:42,436
Speaker 2: a hopless we'll be back soon.

738
00:35:53,036 --> 00:35:56,476
Speaker 1: I sometimes ask myself a very simple question, when were

739
00:35:56,516 --> 00:35:59,716
Speaker 1: you last living in the moment depressingly? My answer is

740
00:35:59,756 --> 00:36:03,636
Speaker 1: often I can't remember. I'm usually so busy ruminating about

741
00:36:03,676 --> 00:36:06,436
Speaker 1: the past or worrying about the future that I forget

742
00:36:06,476 --> 00:36:09,036
Speaker 1: to enjoy the here and now, which isn't so great

743
00:36:09,156 --> 00:36:11,756
Speaker 1: for my well being, But what can I do better?

744
00:36:12,156 --> 00:36:15,396
Speaker 1: I decided to ask the Titans of Happiness. Gretchen Rubin

745
00:36:15,556 --> 00:36:16,356
Speaker 1: jumped in first.

746
00:36:16,796 --> 00:36:19,196
Speaker 5: I'm the kind of person that's constantly up in her

747
00:36:19,276 --> 00:36:21,636
Speaker 5: head and I'm walking on the beach and I don't

748
00:36:21,676 --> 00:36:25,236
Speaker 5: see or hear or smell anything because I'm just rewriting

749
00:36:25,236 --> 00:36:27,316
Speaker 5: a paragraph in my head. So I have to make

750
00:36:27,316 --> 00:36:30,436
Speaker 5: a very very deliberate effort to connect with my five senses.

751
00:36:30,756 --> 00:36:33,476
Speaker 5: But I think this is something that we don't all

752
00:36:33,476 --> 00:36:35,716
Speaker 5: have the same five senses, but this is something that's

753
00:36:35,716 --> 00:36:38,116
Speaker 5: available to us at all times, and just stopping and

754
00:36:38,156 --> 00:36:40,676
Speaker 5: saying like Wow, that's a beautiful smell, or that's an

755
00:36:40,756 --> 00:36:43,796
Speaker 5: unusual smeller, Like oh wow, I'm in a hardware store.

756
00:36:44,076 --> 00:36:46,636
Speaker 3: Hardware stores have that hardware store smell.

757
00:36:46,956 --> 00:36:49,196
Speaker 5: Or I'm going to reach out and actually touch the

758
00:36:49,236 --> 00:36:51,076
Speaker 5: bark of that tree or put my hand on that

759
00:36:51,236 --> 00:36:52,876
Speaker 5: moss that looks so springy.

760
00:36:52,956 --> 00:36:55,716
Speaker 3: Does it feel springy and damp? Is it actually dry?

761
00:36:55,756 --> 00:36:56,116
Speaker 3: I don't know.

762
00:36:56,156 --> 00:36:58,156
Speaker 5: I'm going to touch it and feel it. There's something

763
00:36:58,156 --> 00:37:01,756
Speaker 5: about connecting with our bodies that is so energizing and

764
00:37:01,836 --> 00:37:05,716
Speaker 5: so revitalizing, and it's available to us at all times.

765
00:37:05,836 --> 00:37:08,476
Speaker 5: For me, that is a really valuable way just to

766
00:37:08,516 --> 00:37:10,876
Speaker 5: connect with them moment through our bodies, because you know,

767
00:37:10,916 --> 00:37:12,996
Speaker 5: the thing with these with these experiences is we can't

768
00:37:13,036 --> 00:37:15,436
Speaker 5: bookmark them, we can't save them for later, we can't

769
00:37:15,476 --> 00:37:17,876
Speaker 5: even really binge them. Like I'm a person who loves

770
00:37:17,876 --> 00:37:19,476
Speaker 5: the sense of smell. But one of the things about

771
00:37:19,476 --> 00:37:21,356
Speaker 5: the sense of smell is even if I want to

772
00:37:21,436 --> 00:37:24,156
Speaker 5: keep smelling that lilac bush, after a few seconds, I'm

773
00:37:24,396 --> 00:37:26,036
Speaker 5: I'm gonna have other fatigue and I'm not gonna be

774
00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:27,476
Speaker 5: able to smell it. So I have to enjoy it

775
00:37:27,636 --> 00:37:30,476
Speaker 5: now and then let it go. And different people are

776
00:37:30,476 --> 00:37:33,956
Speaker 5: more attuned to seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. So whatever

777
00:37:33,996 --> 00:37:36,596
Speaker 5: that is for you, thinking about like how you could

778
00:37:36,636 --> 00:37:38,916
Speaker 5: really bring that into your life, or if there's something

779
00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:41,476
Speaker 5: that you neglect, is there a way that you can

780
00:37:41,516 --> 00:37:43,756
Speaker 5: bring that in, because that's probably where you have more

781
00:37:43,756 --> 00:37:46,116
Speaker 5: low hanging fruit. I even have a quiz on my site,

782
00:37:46,756 --> 00:37:49,516
Speaker 5: gretchenmuben dot com slash quiz where you can take a

783
00:37:49,556 --> 00:37:51,596
Speaker 5: quiz to find out what's your most neglected sense and

784
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:53,476
Speaker 5: what's your most appreciated sense Because a lot of times

785
00:37:53,556 --> 00:37:55,676
Speaker 5: we don't even know we don't even think about it.

786
00:37:55,756 --> 00:37:57,916
Speaker 5: But it's something that's available to us us at all times,

787
00:37:57,956 --> 00:37:59,996
Speaker 5: and it ties us to that present moment, and it

788
00:38:00,076 --> 00:38:02,556
Speaker 5: just it just refreshes us, even if they're bad.

789
00:38:02,716 --> 00:38:05,396
Speaker 3: That's the thing that's funny. Even I like even bad smells.

790
00:38:05,596 --> 00:38:07,356
Speaker 1: I love this point so much because the last time

791
00:38:07,356 --> 00:38:09,476
Speaker 1: we talked about senses, you had me kind of getting

792
00:38:09,476 --> 00:38:12,276
Speaker 1: a little bit obsessed with thinking about different colors of

793
00:38:12,316 --> 00:38:14,876
Speaker 1: different things. Oh yeah, and in fact, I wanted to

794
00:38:14,876 --> 00:38:16,916
Speaker 1: see if we could have Elmo play a game where

795
00:38:16,916 --> 00:38:18,316
Speaker 1: he notices some colors.

796
00:38:18,676 --> 00:38:20,316
Speaker 2: Sure, everyone loves games.

797
00:38:21,076 --> 00:38:22,316
Speaker 1: Okay, here it goes.

798
00:38:22,396 --> 00:38:24,996
Speaker 5: Okay, So, Elma, what are some blue things you saw

799
00:38:25,036 --> 00:38:27,116
Speaker 5: this week? What were some of your favorite blue things?

800
00:38:27,196 --> 00:38:31,076
Speaker 2: Blue things? Let's see, Well, Cookie Master has blue fur.

801
00:38:31,156 --> 00:38:35,636
Speaker 2: Almos him, Graver Glover has blue fur. Yes, I saw

802
00:38:35,716 --> 00:38:39,516
Speaker 2: him and or Emma ate some blueberries for a snack.

803
00:38:39,596 --> 00:38:43,036
Speaker 2: There's a blue and oh, Emma saw a really pretty

804
00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:44,676
Speaker 2: blue sky on sesame streets.

805
00:38:45,076 --> 00:38:47,716
Speaker 5: We'll just taking the time to notice those things makes

806
00:38:47,756 --> 00:38:49,196
Speaker 5: you feel more connected.

807
00:38:48,756 --> 00:38:50,756
Speaker 3: To the world and the people around you and the

808
00:38:50,836 --> 00:38:51,996
Speaker 3: monsters around you too.

809
00:38:52,836 --> 00:38:55,556
Speaker 2: Well, that's telling Emma all about.

810
00:38:55,196 --> 00:38:58,196
Speaker 1: It, Gretcha, Thank you, Elmo, you're so good at noticing

811
00:38:58,236 --> 00:38:58,796
Speaker 1: blue things.

812
00:38:59,116 --> 00:38:59,756
Speaker 9: Yeah.

813
00:38:59,876 --> 00:39:02,316
Speaker 1: Here, as we think about how we can use our senses,

814
00:39:02,356 --> 00:39:05,036
Speaker 1: I feel like it's really powerful to be in your

815
00:39:05,076 --> 00:39:07,116
Speaker 1: senses because it's yet another way to get away from

816
00:39:07,156 --> 00:39:09,076
Speaker 1: your phones. But I know this is one that, like

817
00:39:09,476 --> 00:39:12,476
Speaker 1: I struggle with so any other great strategies for kind

818
00:39:12,516 --> 00:39:14,236
Speaker 1: of stepping away from your technology.

819
00:39:14,356 --> 00:39:15,156
Speaker 3: I have a quick hack.

820
00:39:15,396 --> 00:39:18,636
Speaker 5: Please, okay, if you are using your smartphone too much,

821
00:39:18,796 --> 00:39:21,596
Speaker 5: go into your settings and change it to grayscale, which

822
00:39:21,636 --> 00:39:23,716
Speaker 5: means that instead of being in full color, your phone

823
00:39:23,756 --> 00:39:25,596
Speaker 5: will be in black, white, and gray. And it does

824
00:39:25,636 --> 00:39:27,516
Speaker 5: two things. It makes it much harder to use. Just

825
00:39:27,556 --> 00:39:30,356
Speaker 5: from a utilitarian it's just much harder to navigate. That's

826
00:39:30,356 --> 00:39:32,356
Speaker 5: one of the reasons we see colors, because it helps us,

827
00:39:32,436 --> 00:39:35,236
Speaker 5: you know, navigate the world. And it's also much less

828
00:39:35,356 --> 00:39:38,156
Speaker 5: enticing because you know, if you're looking like on ads

829
00:39:38,756 --> 00:39:40,676
Speaker 5: or even like photos of people you love, they're just

830
00:39:40,836 --> 00:39:43,156
Speaker 5: they don't grab your attention in the same way. And

831
00:39:43,196 --> 00:39:44,876
Speaker 5: so it's so much easier to step away from that

832
00:39:44,876 --> 00:39:47,876
Speaker 5: phone because it's less appealing, and it's also tougher to use.

833
00:39:48,476 --> 00:39:50,716
Speaker 5: And this takes one second, and you can change it

834
00:39:50,756 --> 00:39:53,196
Speaker 5: back anytime you want if you like, get pictures of

835
00:39:53,236 --> 00:39:55,156
Speaker 5: your baby niece, you can switch it back so you

836
00:39:55,156 --> 00:39:57,036
Speaker 5: could see in full color and then turn it back

837
00:39:57,076 --> 00:39:59,196
Speaker 5: to a gray scale. But so many people say that

838
00:39:59,236 --> 00:40:02,076
Speaker 5: this is kind of up there with like not having

839
00:40:02,116 --> 00:40:03,756
Speaker 5: your phone next to you when you go to sleep

840
00:40:03,796 --> 00:40:06,156
Speaker 5: at night, you know, in terms of making it easier

841
00:40:06,236 --> 00:40:07,476
Speaker 5: to step away from the phone.

842
00:40:07,516 --> 00:40:08,196
Speaker 7: I'll add one.

843
00:40:08,756 --> 00:40:11,316
Speaker 6: This is and Catherine Price, who wrote an excellent book

844
00:40:11,316 --> 00:40:13,636
Speaker 6: called How to Break Up with Your Phone, and she

845
00:40:13,796 --> 00:40:17,596
Speaker 6: asks people to just ask themselves a question on the

846
00:40:17,636 --> 00:40:20,676
Speaker 6: regular when you feel your zombie arm moving out of

847
00:40:20,716 --> 00:40:25,276
Speaker 6: your control to grab the phone, if you can remember,

848
00:40:25,316 --> 00:40:26,796
Speaker 6: and it's going to be hard to remember, so if

849
00:40:26,796 --> 00:40:28,916
Speaker 6: you can just remember, say ten percent of the time,

850
00:40:28,956 --> 00:40:31,396
Speaker 6: to ask what do I need right now?

851
00:40:32,036 --> 00:40:33,276
Speaker 7: Why am I doing this?

852
00:40:33,916 --> 00:40:36,116
Speaker 6: And maybe you'll tune into the fact that you're bored

853
00:40:36,236 --> 00:40:39,916
Speaker 6: or lonely or hungry or tired or whatever it is.

854
00:40:40,236 --> 00:40:43,716
Speaker 6: And if you can catch that insert a little pause,

855
00:40:43,876 --> 00:40:46,316
Speaker 6: you might then be able to make a better decision

856
00:40:46,316 --> 00:40:48,156
Speaker 6: about how to use your time.

857
00:40:48,356 --> 00:40:51,276
Speaker 1: I love this one. One of Catherine's other questions that

858
00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:54,036
Speaker 1: I like a lot is what else, like what else

859
00:40:54,076 --> 00:40:56,156
Speaker 1: could I be doing right now? Which is for me,

860
00:40:56,276 --> 00:40:57,916
Speaker 1: has been this lovely way to kind of notice the

861
00:40:57,956 --> 00:41:00,596
Speaker 1: opportunity cost of being on my phone right now, Like, oh,

862
00:41:00,676 --> 00:41:02,756
Speaker 1: I'm not talking to my husband at dinner, I'm not

863
00:41:02,796 --> 00:41:05,116
Speaker 1: paying attention to what I'm eating. I'm not like looking

864
00:41:05,196 --> 00:41:07,396
Speaker 1: out the world and noticing like all the cool things

865
00:41:07,436 --> 00:41:09,796
Speaker 1: I could notice. That one's been super profound for me.

866
00:41:09,916 --> 00:41:12,756
Speaker 3: I've heard of people who will put their e reading app.

867
00:41:12,836 --> 00:41:15,996
Speaker 5: They'll like, if there's whatever their social platform is that

868
00:41:16,036 --> 00:41:18,876
Speaker 5: they use the most, they'll replace it with their e

869
00:41:19,036 --> 00:41:22,316
Speaker 5: reader and move the social platform deep into their phone.

870
00:41:22,396 --> 00:41:24,836
Speaker 5: So when they have the zombie finger going out and

871
00:41:24,916 --> 00:41:27,196
Speaker 5: hitting that app, the novel pops up, and you're like,

872
00:41:27,316 --> 00:41:28,996
Speaker 5: you know what I'd really rather have.

873
00:41:29,196 --> 00:41:30,356
Speaker 3: It's the opportunity cost.

874
00:41:30,396 --> 00:41:33,396
Speaker 5: I would really rather spend this time reading that novel

875
00:41:33,596 --> 00:41:35,676
Speaker 5: than scrolling through social media. And if I want to

876
00:41:35,676 --> 00:41:37,356
Speaker 5: get to the social media, I'm gonna have to work

877
00:41:37,396 --> 00:41:39,276
Speaker 5: harder to get there. And so maybe that's going to

878
00:41:39,316 --> 00:41:41,836
Speaker 5: give me that pause to say, what else could.

879
00:41:41,636 --> 00:41:44,196
Speaker 1: I be doing? Joanna, you mentioned kind of getting off

880
00:41:44,196 --> 00:41:47,076
Speaker 1: your phone before. I'm curious that you had particular strategies

881
00:41:47,116 --> 00:41:47,956
Speaker 1: that fit into.

882
00:41:47,956 --> 00:41:50,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I just want to call attention to how

883
00:41:51,236 --> 00:41:55,236
Speaker 4: lively this conversation is and how many hecks we're having

884
00:41:55,276 --> 00:41:57,916
Speaker 4: to develop to like break up with our phone and

885
00:41:57,996 --> 00:42:00,316
Speaker 4: like break up with technology. And so I think that

886
00:42:00,316 --> 00:42:03,356
Speaker 4: that is an important reminder for us that these platforms

887
00:42:03,396 --> 00:42:05,996
Speaker 4: really are designed to keep us there, right, And so

888
00:42:06,036 --> 00:42:08,276
Speaker 4: when you're struggling in that way, know that you are

889
00:42:08,316 --> 00:42:11,756
Speaker 4: not alone because they are made that way by design.

890
00:42:12,796 --> 00:42:14,956
Speaker 4: So yeah, So in addition to you know, all the

891
00:42:14,996 --> 00:42:17,516
Speaker 4: incredible hecks that other people have shared, I've also heard

892
00:42:17,556 --> 00:42:21,036
Speaker 4: of people kind of moving away from smartphones altogether. And

893
00:42:21,076 --> 00:42:23,276
Speaker 4: so maybe they still have like a smartphone for like

894
00:42:23,356 --> 00:42:25,876
Speaker 4: business hours, but in the rest of their day they

895
00:42:26,036 --> 00:42:29,076
Speaker 4: use a phone that is just like for emergencies, right,

896
00:42:29,116 --> 00:42:30,836
Speaker 4: And so really being able to kind of like put

897
00:42:30,876 --> 00:42:33,636
Speaker 4: that phone away but still be reachable, I think can

898
00:42:33,716 --> 00:42:36,196
Speaker 4: be another strategy if you find everything else just very

899
00:42:36,276 --> 00:42:36,916
Speaker 4: very difficult.

900
00:42:36,956 --> 00:42:40,076
Speaker 6: First, I totally agree with Joy. I mean this kind

901
00:42:40,076 --> 00:42:42,396
Speaker 6: of goes back to self compassion. If you're beating yourself

902
00:42:42,476 --> 00:42:46,396
Speaker 6: up for being addicted to your phone, recognizing that this

903
00:42:46,476 --> 00:42:49,716
Speaker 6: is you against some of the most brilliant designers and

904
00:42:49,756 --> 00:42:52,356
Speaker 6: most powerful supercomputers on earth.

905
00:42:52,036 --> 00:42:54,276
Speaker 3: Who've been evolving this for decades now.

906
00:42:54,436 --> 00:42:57,956
Speaker 6: Yes, the odds are stacked against you. It would just

907
00:42:57,996 --> 00:43:00,636
Speaker 6: put in another plug for meditation in this regard, which

908
00:43:00,676 --> 00:43:04,116
Speaker 6: is you know, mindfulness meditation you know, which is very

909
00:43:04,116 --> 00:43:07,436
Speaker 6: closely linked to what a Gretchen was talking about before

910
00:43:07,476 --> 00:43:10,596
Speaker 6: in terms of being in touch with your senses, can

911
00:43:10,756 --> 00:43:15,956
Speaker 6: help you develop more self awareness so that you might notice, Oh,

912
00:43:15,996 --> 00:43:19,036
Speaker 6: I'm on hour eight of scrolling through Twitter, and I'm

913
00:43:19,076 --> 00:43:22,316
Speaker 6: starting to reply to people in all caps, So maybe

914
00:43:22,396 --> 00:43:26,636
Speaker 6: I should put this phone down. The self awareness and interception,

915
00:43:27,996 --> 00:43:31,156
Speaker 6: the body awareness that we can develop through mindfulness meditation

916
00:43:31,516 --> 00:43:34,436
Speaker 6: can be a kind of Doppler radar. It can point

917
00:43:34,516 --> 00:43:37,476
Speaker 6: out when a storm is coming, so that you're better

918
00:43:37,556 --> 00:43:41,436
Speaker 6: equipped to do this very tough battle with the supercomputers.

919
00:43:41,876 --> 00:43:43,836
Speaker 1: So that was the problem of kind of finding ways

920
00:43:43,876 --> 00:43:46,556
Speaker 1: to be more present navigating the technology that's sort of

921
00:43:46,556 --> 00:43:49,436
Speaker 1: pulling us away from being present most of the time.

922
00:43:50,036 --> 00:43:52,156
Speaker 1: But I also think that to deal with the kind

923
00:43:52,156 --> 00:43:53,956
Speaker 1: of mental health crisis that so many of us are

924
00:43:53,996 --> 00:43:56,676
Speaker 1: facing right now, we need better strategies for being present

925
00:43:56,756 --> 00:43:59,196
Speaker 1: even when the present moment isn't awesome. Right, we were

926
00:43:59,196 --> 00:44:01,836
Speaker 1: just talking about moments of being present when you're missing

927
00:44:01,836 --> 00:44:03,956
Speaker 1: out on the good things, and these beautiful colors of

928
00:44:03,996 --> 00:44:06,076
Speaker 1: blue that you can see and all the great sensory

929
00:44:06,116 --> 00:44:08,276
Speaker 1: information around you. But I think we also need to

930
00:44:08,316 --> 00:44:10,756
Speaker 1: find ways to be present when the present moment is

931
00:44:10,876 --> 00:44:13,276
Speaker 1: kind of not feeling so awesome what it's maybe feeling

932
00:44:13,356 --> 00:44:17,156
Speaker 1: sort of yucky. So I'm curious your go to strategies

933
00:44:17,236 --> 00:44:21,236
Speaker 1: for navigating negative emotions and maybe even finding ways to

934
00:44:21,316 --> 00:44:24,756
Speaker 1: be present with them, Doctor Joy, any good strategies for that.

935
00:44:25,156 --> 00:44:28,236
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have really found that showers and baths help

936
00:44:28,316 --> 00:44:31,396
Speaker 4: with that because I do think it is another opportunity

937
00:44:31,436 --> 00:44:34,156
Speaker 4: to ground right and you are sensing, like Gretchen talked about,

938
00:44:34,156 --> 00:44:37,596
Speaker 4: like the water around you, and I think especially for showers,

939
00:44:37,636 --> 00:44:39,676
Speaker 4: there is a way that you can kind of visualize

940
00:44:39,996 --> 00:44:42,076
Speaker 4: all of the negativity, all of the things that you're

941
00:44:42,116 --> 00:44:44,756
Speaker 4: worrying about, just kind of going down the drain as

942
00:44:44,756 --> 00:44:46,716
Speaker 4: you are standing there in the shower. And so again

943
00:44:46,756 --> 00:44:49,196
Speaker 4: I think that that is something that feels very tangible,

944
00:44:49,196 --> 00:44:51,396
Speaker 4: again for people who struggle with like what does this mean?

945
00:44:51,436 --> 00:44:54,036
Speaker 4: And it feels very abstract, I think showers can be

946
00:44:54,076 --> 00:44:56,036
Speaker 4: a really great way to manage some of those more

947
00:44:56,036 --> 00:44:57,156
Speaker 4: difficult emotions.

948
00:44:57,396 --> 00:45:01,156
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Yeah, I love this washing away because really it

949
00:45:01,196 --> 00:45:03,236
Speaker 5: really does work. But one of the and I don't

950
00:45:03,276 --> 00:45:04,876
Speaker 5: want to say this in a way that it's like

951
00:45:05,476 --> 00:45:09,516
Speaker 5: every glass is half full and nothing is negative. You know,

952
00:45:09,636 --> 00:45:11,716
Speaker 5: you just have to think your way to a positive side.

953
00:45:11,716 --> 00:45:13,316
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that, but I will say that one

954
00:45:13,316 --> 00:45:15,516
Speaker 5: of the things I work on is to see like

955
00:45:15,636 --> 00:45:20,636
Speaker 5: negative emotions have value and they're important flashing signs that

956
00:45:20,796 --> 00:45:23,516
Speaker 5: something needs to change or something's out of whack or

957
00:45:23,516 --> 00:45:25,636
Speaker 5: out of value. And so when I'm feeling those emotions

958
00:45:25,676 --> 00:45:28,916
Speaker 5: like I'm feeling envy, or I'm feeling regret, or I'm

959
00:45:28,956 --> 00:45:34,596
Speaker 5: feeling boredom or anger or righteous indignation or just irritation,

960
00:45:34,876 --> 00:45:36,556
Speaker 5: you know, I'm really I really try to step back

961
00:45:36,556 --> 00:45:38,996
Speaker 5: and think like, Okay, well, what's what's the information here?

962
00:45:39,316 --> 00:45:41,636
Speaker 5: Because for me, I often am just trying to sort

963
00:45:41,636 --> 00:45:44,596
Speaker 5: of power through emotions and kind of move on to

964
00:45:44,676 --> 00:45:47,676
Speaker 5: the next thing. And so for me, it really is like, Okay, well,

965
00:45:47,796 --> 00:45:52,076
Speaker 5: I'm having this feeling of envy. What does this person

966
00:45:52,156 --> 00:45:55,276
Speaker 5: have that I envy? Or out of nowhere, I seem

967
00:45:55,276 --> 00:45:58,676
Speaker 5: to be overwhelmed with rage, why might DAD be Instead

968
00:45:58,676 --> 00:46:01,276
Speaker 5: of just ignoring it or trying to be like dismissing it,

969
00:46:01,356 --> 00:46:04,996
Speaker 5: saying like well, something set me off. There's information there,

970
00:46:05,276 --> 00:46:08,556
Speaker 5: but as you say, it's very unpleasant. Like negative emotions

971
00:46:08,556 --> 00:46:11,476
Speaker 5: are no fun, and to be overwhelmed with feelings of

972
00:46:11,756 --> 00:46:15,956
Speaker 5: resentment or righteous indignation can be very very painful, but

973
00:46:15,996 --> 00:46:18,276
Speaker 5: there is value in them. So I just try to

974
00:46:18,436 --> 00:46:21,316
Speaker 5: stay with it, let myself experience it, because I'm a

975
00:46:21,356 --> 00:46:24,876
Speaker 5: person who tends to try to just barrel through.

976
00:46:25,116 --> 00:46:27,116
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, you know, one of the reasons

977
00:46:27,156 --> 00:46:29,956
Speaker 1: I like using these emotions is information. I sometimes the

978
00:46:29,996 --> 00:46:32,116
Speaker 1: analogy I use with my students is it's like the

979
00:46:32,436 --> 00:46:35,076
Speaker 1: dashboard on your car, like the emergency dashboard, Like it's

980
00:46:35,116 --> 00:46:36,716
Speaker 1: your engine light, your tire.

981
00:46:36,556 --> 00:46:39,236
Speaker 3: Like yes, what a good that a floor?

982
00:46:39,436 --> 00:46:41,796
Speaker 1: And I like that one because it's because, like I

983
00:46:41,796 --> 00:46:43,636
Speaker 1: don't know about you, maybe you all deal with your

984
00:46:43,676 --> 00:46:45,556
Speaker 1: cars very differently than I do. But like the engine

985
00:46:45,596 --> 00:46:47,556
Speaker 1: light will go on and I'll be like, gotta deal

986
00:46:47,596 --> 00:46:49,036
Speaker 1: with that at some point, not right now. I'm not

987
00:46:49,036 --> 00:46:51,236
Speaker 1: gonna pull over and like drive to you know, like

988
00:46:51,276 --> 00:46:54,276
Speaker 1: the car mechanic, but like I got to schedule sometime

989
00:46:54,356 --> 00:46:56,916
Speaker 1: on Tuesday to like go back to this and notice

990
00:46:56,956 --> 00:46:59,316
Speaker 1: it and figure it out. And so I think sometimes

991
00:46:59,356 --> 00:47:01,956
Speaker 1: when our negative emotions are there, there's like a time

992
00:47:02,036 --> 00:47:04,156
Speaker 1: for kind of you know, putting them briefly to this

993
00:47:04,516 --> 00:47:06,636
Speaker 1: side so that we can kind of but but you

994
00:47:06,716 --> 00:47:09,516
Speaker 1: also have to schedule time to come back to them.

995
00:47:09,836 --> 00:47:11,956
Speaker 1: I also think there's strategies we can use when we're

996
00:47:11,956 --> 00:47:14,596
Speaker 1: in the thick of negative emotions to kind of allow

997
00:47:14,676 --> 00:47:17,196
Speaker 1: them and sort of radically accept them. And Dan, I

998
00:47:17,236 --> 00:47:19,556
Speaker 1: know this is some of the practices that you've talked

999
00:47:19,596 --> 00:47:22,276
Speaker 1: about in the work that you've done with meditation, of

1000
00:47:22,356 --> 00:47:24,236
Speaker 1: like just things we can do to kind of be

1001
00:47:24,996 --> 00:47:27,316
Speaker 1: there with our emotions and sort of allow them. Any

1002
00:47:27,356 --> 00:47:28,756
Speaker 1: good strategies to share.

1003
00:47:28,556 --> 00:47:30,316
Speaker 6: With that, Yeah, well, I mean, as you know, I

1004
00:47:30,396 --> 00:47:32,476
Speaker 6: come out of a Buddhist context, so what I'm about

1005
00:47:32,516 --> 00:47:36,436
Speaker 6: to say might sound deeply counterintuitive or deeply unpleasant.

1006
00:47:35,916 --> 00:47:37,116
Speaker 7: Or radical in some way.

1007
00:47:37,156 --> 00:47:39,676
Speaker 6: So I'd be curious once I talk about it to

1008
00:47:39,716 --> 00:47:43,036
Speaker 6: see how it goes down with you. You know, everything

1009
00:47:43,836 --> 00:47:47,916
Speaker 6: in our culture strongly suggests to us that when we

1010
00:47:47,996 --> 00:47:53,076
Speaker 6: feel discomfort, we should self medicate in some way, shop,

1011
00:47:53,836 --> 00:48:00,716
Speaker 6: distract ourselves, drink, gamble, But actually that makes it worse

1012
00:48:01,276 --> 00:48:07,356
Speaker 6: and the move the real jiu jitsu move. In many situations,

1013
00:48:07,396 --> 00:48:12,396
Speaker 6: this is not always true. So for example, in trauma situations,

1014
00:48:12,396 --> 00:48:13,596
Speaker 6: I think you want to be a little bit more

1015
00:48:13,636 --> 00:48:16,356
Speaker 6: careful than what I'm about to describe. And maybe Joy

1016
00:48:16,396 --> 00:48:20,236
Speaker 6: can step in and give some more subtle instructions. But

1017
00:48:20,316 --> 00:48:23,756
Speaker 6: for let's just say the worried. Well, for most of us,

1018
00:48:24,036 --> 00:48:29,076
Speaker 6: you can dive into whatever you're feeling, not in a

1019
00:48:29,276 --> 00:48:33,356
Speaker 6: wallowing way, but in a curious way. So I'll give

1020
00:48:33,356 --> 00:48:36,796
Speaker 6: you a little slogan that I got from my meditation teacher,

1021
00:48:36,876 --> 00:48:41,156
Speaker 6: Joseph Goldstein, which is, it's okay. This does not mean

1022
00:48:41,236 --> 00:48:44,916
Speaker 6: everything's okay. It means it's okay to feel whatever I'm

1023
00:48:44,916 --> 00:48:48,796
Speaker 6: feeling right now. And in that process of okay, yeah,

1024
00:48:48,836 --> 00:48:53,236
Speaker 6: this is anger, let's see if we can use the

1025
00:48:53,276 --> 00:48:58,916
Speaker 6: microscope of our mind to disambiguate what's actually happening here.

1026
00:48:59,036 --> 00:49:01,756
Speaker 6: Is there buzzing in my chest or my ears turning red?

1027
00:49:02,156 --> 00:49:06,316
Speaker 6: Is there a starburst of self righteous thoughts? Picking apart

1028
00:49:06,396 --> 00:49:10,316
Speaker 6: what seems like a monolithic force of anger and seeing

1029
00:49:10,356 --> 00:49:14,116
Speaker 6: that actually it has constituent parts. It comes and goes

1030
00:49:14,156 --> 00:49:18,516
Speaker 6: as constantly in flux can help you move from being

1031
00:49:18,676 --> 00:49:22,676
Speaker 6: totally identified with your anger to recognizing that it's a

1032
00:49:22,716 --> 00:49:26,756
Speaker 6: passing storm, and once you allow it to come and go.

1033
00:49:27,996 --> 00:49:31,436
Speaker 6: Then you can respond wisely to the situation on the

1034
00:49:31,476 --> 00:49:34,116
Speaker 6: other side rather than reacting blindly.

1035
00:49:34,196 --> 00:49:38,476
Speaker 7: And to me, this is an incredibly powerful move.

1036
00:49:38,556 --> 00:49:41,236
Speaker 6: Of course, in some cases you really do want to

1037
00:49:41,276 --> 00:49:43,956
Speaker 6: be careful and specifically, I'm thinking about trauma, so I'll

1038
00:49:43,996 --> 00:49:46,076
Speaker 6: shout up and see if any of that lands for

1039
00:49:46,156 --> 00:49:46,516
Speaker 6: any of.

1040
00:49:46,476 --> 00:49:48,596
Speaker 1: You, Doctor Joyan. Does this kind of fit with some

1041
00:49:48,636 --> 00:49:50,516
Speaker 1: of the work that you do in clinical practice thinking

1042
00:49:50,556 --> 00:49:54,436
Speaker 1: about wise mind and some of those ideas, Absolutely, yeah.

1043
00:49:54,476 --> 00:49:57,156
Speaker 4: I think we often use the metaphor of like watching

1044
00:49:57,236 --> 00:49:59,796
Speaker 4: waves kind of go up and down and crashing, and

1045
00:49:59,836 --> 00:50:02,756
Speaker 4: like emotions are similar to that, right like you can

1046
00:50:02,956 --> 00:50:05,836
Speaker 4: see it rise to its peak with it eventually it

1047
00:50:05,876 --> 00:50:09,036
Speaker 4: does phase out. And so I do appreciate that caveat,

1048
00:50:09,236 --> 00:50:12,596
Speaker 4: and because especially with traumatic experiences, you do want to

1049
00:50:12,596 --> 00:50:15,636
Speaker 4: be careful not to dive right into the middle of

1050
00:50:15,636 --> 00:50:18,316
Speaker 4: that without having some support, because you can't be flooded

1051
00:50:18,356 --> 00:50:20,836
Speaker 4: and can make you feel more distressed than I think

1052
00:50:20,876 --> 00:50:23,436
Speaker 4: you would if you had some support. But to your point,

1053
00:50:23,476 --> 00:50:26,916
Speaker 4: like you know, the normal kind of everyday worries and concerns,

1054
00:50:26,996 --> 00:50:29,396
Speaker 4: being able to sit with your emotions as opposed to

1055
00:50:29,596 --> 00:50:32,476
Speaker 4: run away from it can actually be a very helpful activity.

1056
00:50:32,516 --> 00:50:35,116
Speaker 1: You know, if we look around the world at mental

1057
00:50:35,156 --> 00:50:37,396
Speaker 1: health reports, you know, one of the big things that's

1058
00:50:37,396 --> 00:50:40,796
Speaker 1: on the rise in terms of negative emotions is people's anxiety, right,

1059
00:50:40,956 --> 00:50:42,636
Speaker 1: And I think in some ways it's worth saying that

1060
00:50:42,636 --> 00:50:45,036
Speaker 1: that's formative. Right, there's lots of stuff in the world

1061
00:50:45,076 --> 00:50:48,436
Speaker 1: right now to be anxious about. But also anxiety doesn't

1062
00:50:48,516 --> 00:50:50,956
Speaker 1: really feel awesome, and sometimes in some cases it seems

1063
00:50:50,956 --> 00:50:53,556
Speaker 1: to be applied in cases where it's just fre floating

1064
00:50:53,676 --> 00:50:56,716
Speaker 1: or maybe not appropriate for the situation. Joy you're nodding,

1065
00:50:56,796 --> 00:50:58,836
Speaker 1: So I'm curious if you have some good strategies for

1066
00:50:58,876 --> 00:50:59,396
Speaker 1: this one.

1067
00:50:59,756 --> 00:51:02,156
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's just important to really normalize like

1068
00:51:02,236 --> 00:51:04,876
Speaker 4: how much anxiety everybody is.

1069
00:51:04,836 --> 00:51:05,996
Speaker 7: Feeling at the time.

1070
00:51:06,076 --> 00:51:08,476
Speaker 4: And you know, I honestly think we a part of

1071
00:51:08,476 --> 00:51:11,356
Speaker 4: what has been missed maybe in this conversation is thinking

1072
00:51:11,396 --> 00:51:14,196
Speaker 4: about the time in the history at which we find

1073
00:51:14,236 --> 00:51:17,316
Speaker 4: ourselves kind of post pandemic, if that is a thing,

1074
00:51:18,116 --> 00:51:20,156
Speaker 4: because I don't think that there has ever been like

1075
00:51:20,196 --> 00:51:23,916
Speaker 4: a slowing down and a stopping really to say, oh

1076
00:51:23,916 --> 00:51:27,796
Speaker 4: my gosh, what was this thing we all experienced together, right,

1077
00:51:27,836 --> 00:51:30,356
Speaker 4: Like we kind of just ran back into our offices

1078
00:51:30,396 --> 00:51:32,476
Speaker 4: and kind of like, you know, trying to assume life

1079
00:51:32,556 --> 00:51:35,996
Speaker 4: as normal when we are not who we were anymore.

1080
00:51:36,036 --> 00:51:38,076
Speaker 4: And so I think that that has led a lot

1081
00:51:38,076 --> 00:51:40,396
Speaker 4: of people to feeling very anxious on top of the

1082
00:51:40,436 --> 00:51:43,676
Speaker 4: anxiety they may have been feeling even before the pandemic happened,

1083
00:51:43,756 --> 00:51:45,796
Speaker 4: right And so I think it is important to kind

1084
00:51:45,796 --> 00:51:47,836
Speaker 4: of just give credence and give space to the idea

1085
00:51:47,916 --> 00:51:50,476
Speaker 4: that many of us are feeling very anxious about lots

1086
00:51:50,516 --> 00:51:53,276
Speaker 4: of different things right now, and that it is okay to.

1087
00:51:53,276 --> 00:51:56,196
Speaker 1: Kind of feel that anxiety that you might be experiencing.

1088
00:51:56,356 --> 00:51:58,116
Speaker 6: Just to pick up on what Joy was saying about

1089
00:51:58,116 --> 00:52:00,916
Speaker 6: the pandemic, you know, I don't think it takes a

1090
00:52:00,996 --> 00:52:03,876
Speaker 6: rocket science to figure out that one of the reasons

1091
00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:08,956
Speaker 6: why the pandemic dramatically boosted our anxiety is that we

1092
00:52:08,956 --> 00:52:11,676
Speaker 6: were or cut off from one another. It goes back

1093
00:52:11,676 --> 00:52:16,516
Speaker 6: to our discussion before about social connection and never worrying alone.

1094
00:52:17,116 --> 00:52:21,876
Speaker 6: For me, the maintenance and cultivation of relationships is what

1095
00:52:22,116 --> 00:52:26,156
Speaker 6: as a very anxious person, so who not only suffers

1096
00:52:26,196 --> 00:52:30,196
Speaker 6: from anxiety but also panic attacks, never worrying alone, cultivating

1097
00:52:30,196 --> 00:52:36,116
Speaker 6: and maintaining personal relationships is a huge, huge element for me.

1098
00:52:36,156 --> 00:52:38,396
Speaker 6: I would say there are two other things. I think

1099
00:52:38,436 --> 00:52:41,876
Speaker 6: one other source of anxiety for people is a sense

1100
00:52:41,876 --> 00:52:44,116
Speaker 6: of helplessness, especially when you look at the news and

1101
00:52:44,196 --> 00:52:48,196
Speaker 6: you look at what's happening in politics and climate and

1102
00:52:48,516 --> 00:52:51,516
Speaker 6: armed conflict. And there's an expression that I really love,

1103
00:52:51,516 --> 00:52:56,636
Speaker 6: which is action absorbs anxiety. Take action locally. You can

1104
00:52:56,716 --> 00:53:00,476
Speaker 6: volunteer locally. It doesn't even have to be relevant to

1105
00:53:00,556 --> 00:53:02,756
Speaker 6: the thing you're worried about. So if you're worried about

1106
00:53:02,876 --> 00:53:05,276
Speaker 6: the presidential election, you don't even have to volunteer on

1107
00:53:05,316 --> 00:53:08,196
Speaker 6: a campaign. You can volunteer at an animal shelter just

1108
00:53:08,476 --> 00:53:11,676
Speaker 6: doing so, just being helpful to your friends and family.

1109
00:53:11,996 --> 00:53:14,316
Speaker 6: I mean, think about the moment when you hold the

1110
00:53:14,356 --> 00:53:16,836
Speaker 6: door open for somebody, what does that feel like?

1111
00:53:17,076 --> 00:53:19,276
Speaker 7: It feels good? And we keep talking about do good

1112
00:53:19,356 --> 00:53:19,836
Speaker 7: feel good?

1113
00:53:20,276 --> 00:53:24,396
Speaker 6: That feeling is infinitely scalable, and I believe is an

1114
00:53:24,476 --> 00:53:28,956
Speaker 6: anti anxiety medication that is free and non addictive. And

1115
00:53:28,996 --> 00:53:31,316
Speaker 6: then the final thing I'll say about anxiety, and for

1116
00:53:31,476 --> 00:53:34,396
Speaker 6: me in particular, with somebody who really deals with a

1117
00:53:34,436 --> 00:53:38,516
Speaker 6: lot of not only garden variety anxiety but still panic attacks,

1118
00:53:38,956 --> 00:53:45,076
Speaker 6: is systematically getting yourself more comfortable with discomfort. I think

1119
00:53:45,156 --> 00:53:48,676
Speaker 6: one of the contributing factors to the modern uptick in

1120
00:53:48,716 --> 00:53:52,636
Speaker 6: anxiety is a pandemic to be a little cute of

1121
00:53:52,756 --> 00:53:56,476
Speaker 6: aversion to discomfort. We've created a world where everything is

1122
00:53:56,516 --> 00:54:01,476
Speaker 6: so easy, information, dates, food, it's all a swipe away,

1123
00:54:01,916 --> 00:54:03,996
Speaker 6: and so there's so much less friction in our lives,

1124
00:54:04,196 --> 00:54:09,036
Speaker 6: and that is contributing to a general unwillingness to tolerate discomfort.

1125
00:54:09,236 --> 00:54:12,236
Speaker 6: And so for me, for example, with claustrophobia, and I

1126
00:54:12,276 --> 00:54:14,916
Speaker 6: have some trouble with elevators, as Gretchen knows, she and

1127
00:54:14,996 --> 00:54:16,956
Speaker 6: I were at having dinner at a friend's apartment recently

1128
00:54:16,996 --> 00:54:19,276
Speaker 6: and I had to walk the stairs. But I've gotten

1129
00:54:19,396 --> 00:54:22,996
Speaker 6: very consistent at Okay, I know I'm afraid of elevators.

1130
00:54:22,996 --> 00:54:26,396
Speaker 6: I have claustrophobia. I take every opportunity I can to

1131
00:54:26,516 --> 00:54:29,516
Speaker 6: ride them when I'm feeling well enough to do so,

1132
00:54:29,636 --> 00:54:32,396
Speaker 6: or if I've got somebody I trust. And so this

1133
00:54:32,476 --> 00:54:35,436
Speaker 6: is called exposure therapy. And you can knit this into

1134
00:54:35,476 --> 00:54:39,956
Speaker 6: your life with whatever scares you, making little, carefully calibrated

1135
00:54:39,956 --> 00:54:44,076
Speaker 6: experiments to inoculate yourself against stress.

1136
00:54:44,196 --> 00:54:46,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love this idea. Who was recently talking with

1137
00:54:47,156 --> 00:54:49,716
Speaker 1: a clinician at Yale about you know, what can we

1138
00:54:49,756 --> 00:54:51,716
Speaker 1: do to kind of promote mental health and young people.

1139
00:54:51,836 --> 00:54:53,676
Speaker 1: And one of the things she said was, I wish

1140
00:54:53,756 --> 00:54:55,956
Speaker 1: we could get all the young people today to engage

1141
00:54:55,956 --> 00:54:58,556
Speaker 1: in a little bit more distressed tolerance. Right, well intentioned

1142
00:54:58,636 --> 00:55:00,356
Speaker 1: parents who are trying to do great things of like

1143
00:55:00,516 --> 00:55:02,716
Speaker 1: help kids with their homework and help them kind of

1144
00:55:02,716 --> 00:55:05,516
Speaker 1: make things really easy in life and so on, it's

1145
00:55:05,556 --> 00:55:07,916
Speaker 1: meant that like they've just gotten out of practice when

1146
00:55:07,916 --> 00:55:10,636
Speaker 1: it comes to dealing with form of distress, even simple

1147
00:55:10,676 --> 00:55:12,316
Speaker 1: things like boredom. Right, we just kind of stick a

1148
00:55:12,356 --> 00:55:14,596
Speaker 1: screen in front of a kid who's feeling bored. And

1149
00:55:14,636 --> 00:55:17,596
Speaker 1: so I think kind of developing a personal practice where

1150
00:55:17,596 --> 00:55:20,716
Speaker 1: you engage a little bit more with those tiny negative emotions, right,

1151
00:55:20,756 --> 00:55:23,356
Speaker 1: like not taking on like some terrible traumatic situation, but

1152
00:55:23,476 --> 00:55:26,476
Speaker 1: just tiny negative moments that you can sort of endure.

1153
00:55:26,836 --> 00:55:28,596
Speaker 1: It sort of gives you practice so that when the

1154
00:55:28,596 --> 00:55:31,036
Speaker 1: big things come up, you feel like, Okay, I've readied

1155
00:55:31,036 --> 00:55:33,036
Speaker 1: my muscles. I've kind of like gone to the sort

1156
00:55:33,076 --> 00:55:35,596
Speaker 1: of distress tolerance gym a little bit. Just makes it

1157
00:55:35,836 --> 00:55:37,956
Speaker 1: easier later on when the big things come up.

1158
00:55:38,156 --> 00:55:40,676
Speaker 6: Funny little story, Laurie that my son who's nine came

1159
00:55:40,716 --> 00:55:43,036
Speaker 6: to me recently said he was bored, and I said, well,

1160
00:55:43,076 --> 00:55:44,356
Speaker 6: how does that feel in your body?

1161
00:55:44,396 --> 00:55:45,076
Speaker 7: And he said is.

1162
00:55:44,996 --> 00:55:45,996
Speaker 3: This a meditation thing?

1163
00:55:46,036 --> 00:55:50,556
Speaker 6: Because if it is, I don't want to hear it.

1164
00:55:51,916 --> 00:55:52,196
Speaker 3: Well.

1165
00:55:52,636 --> 00:55:55,036
Speaker 5: One strategy that I find very helpful, and this is

1166
00:55:55,076 --> 00:55:58,556
Speaker 5: for more kind of low level anxiety, not the kind

1167
00:55:58,556 --> 00:56:00,796
Speaker 5: of serious anxiety Dan was just talking about, but maybe

1168
00:56:00,796 --> 00:56:03,996
Speaker 5: more kind of like the jumpiness, the jitteriness, the kind

1169
00:56:04,036 --> 00:56:07,156
Speaker 5: of uneasy feeling that sometimes can creep up on us.

1170
00:56:07,276 --> 00:56:09,556
Speaker 5: Is I find that just like physical exercise. Maybe it

1171
00:56:09,596 --> 00:56:12,516
Speaker 5: is the hula hoop, Maybe it's you know, walking up

1172
00:56:12,556 --> 00:56:14,476
Speaker 5: and down the stairs. Maybe it's going for and if

1173
00:56:14,516 --> 00:56:16,556
Speaker 5: I go for a walk outside and and then the sunshine,

1174
00:56:16,596 --> 00:56:19,196
Speaker 5: that's even better. If I'm walking outside in the sunshine

1175
00:56:19,196 --> 00:56:21,556
Speaker 5: talking to my neighbor and picking up trash, that's even better.

1176
00:56:21,796 --> 00:56:24,196
Speaker 5: But there's something about just like getting in the body

1177
00:56:24,276 --> 00:56:27,036
Speaker 5: and like using a little bit of energy that's helpful.

1178
00:56:27,116 --> 00:56:29,556
Speaker 5: And then also if we're exercising, it's easier to sleep

1179
00:56:29,596 --> 00:56:31,956
Speaker 5: at night. Then with more restless sleep, then we feel

1180
00:56:31,956 --> 00:56:34,156
Speaker 5: more energized the next day. A lot of times these

1181
00:56:34,196 --> 00:56:36,556
Speaker 5: things build on each other. You know, you don't sleep well,

1182
00:56:36,716 --> 00:56:39,956
Speaker 5: so then you feel that makes you feel more anxious too,

1183
00:56:40,476 --> 00:56:43,196
Speaker 5: just more and more in finding that exercises often the

1184
00:56:43,196 --> 00:56:45,356
Speaker 5: elixir for a lot of things. It makes a lot

1185
00:56:45,396 --> 00:56:47,876
Speaker 5: of things better, and it's just good for us in

1186
00:56:47,916 --> 00:56:49,076
Speaker 5: so many ways for mood.

1187
00:56:48,876 --> 00:56:51,196
Speaker 3: Immune function, memory focus.

1188
00:56:51,996 --> 00:56:53,876
Speaker 5: At least, I find in my own life that if

1189
00:56:53,916 --> 00:56:56,876
Speaker 5: I have that kind of jumpy anxiety where it's kind

1190
00:56:56,916 --> 00:56:59,236
Speaker 5: of racing running through my body and making it hard

1191
00:56:59,236 --> 00:57:01,836
Speaker 5: for me to sort of like feel calm, I find

1192
00:57:01,876 --> 00:57:03,836
Speaker 5: that I get a lot more calm when I go

1193
00:57:03,956 --> 00:57:04,436
Speaker 5: for a walk.

1194
00:57:04,676 --> 00:57:06,596
Speaker 1: And it's also just a way, you know, to kind

1195
00:57:06,596 --> 00:57:09,556
Speaker 1: of hack your sympathetic nervous system a little bit right,

1196
00:57:09,596 --> 00:57:12,196
Speaker 1: and like this idea of a little hermetic stress right

1197
00:57:12,236 --> 00:57:14,196
Speaker 1: where you're just kind of like getting your heart rate

1198
00:57:14,316 --> 00:57:16,236
Speaker 1: racing and kind of giving your body a little bit

1199
00:57:16,276 --> 00:57:18,116
Speaker 1: of a different kind of stress so that it learns,

1200
00:57:18,116 --> 00:57:19,316
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I can calm down.

1201
00:57:19,596 --> 00:57:22,596
Speaker 3: I don't do the racing heartbeat, got to confess, I'm

1202
00:57:22,596 --> 00:57:25,996
Speaker 3: doing more like the walk, the stroll. I'm doing the walk,

1203
00:57:26,076 --> 00:57:27,796
Speaker 3: the walking a dog, you know.

1204
00:57:27,956 --> 00:57:29,996
Speaker 5: But yes, but again, as coming back to what we

1205
00:57:30,036 --> 00:57:32,196
Speaker 5: were saying before, there are many ways to do this right.

1206
00:57:32,236 --> 00:57:34,396
Speaker 5: There's no one right way. It's whatever works for you.

1207
00:57:34,436 --> 00:57:36,476
Speaker 5: For some people, it might be going for a run,

1208
00:57:36,476 --> 00:57:38,476
Speaker 5: going for a bike ride. Another person it might be

1209
00:57:38,876 --> 00:57:41,436
Speaker 5: you know, ambling through a garden and the you know,

1210
00:57:41,476 --> 00:57:42,636
Speaker 5: in their neighborhood or something.

1211
00:57:42,676 --> 00:57:45,316
Speaker 3: So but whatever works, it's worth thinking about.

1212
00:57:45,476 --> 00:57:47,876
Speaker 1: So as we end this kind of conversation on World

1213
00:57:47,956 --> 00:57:50,836
Speaker 1: Mental Health Day, I'm just curious if you have any

1214
00:57:50,956 --> 00:57:54,236
Speaker 1: final advice for somebody feeling a little hopeless, like I

1215
00:57:54,276 --> 00:57:56,356
Speaker 1: really want to improve my mental health. What's your kind

1216
00:57:56,396 --> 00:57:58,156
Speaker 1: of one go to tip that you would kind of

1217
00:57:58,196 --> 00:58:01,036
Speaker 1: want to end with to help somebody improve their mental

1218
00:58:01,036 --> 00:58:03,396
Speaker 1: health on a day like today, Dretchen, do you want

1219
00:58:03,396 --> 00:58:03,716
Speaker 1: to start?

1220
00:58:03,916 --> 00:58:07,596
Speaker 5: I would say, take a walk outside in the sunshine,

1221
00:58:08,036 --> 00:58:11,756
Speaker 5: pet a dog, pick up some trash, talk to a neighbor.

1222
00:58:12,356 --> 00:58:16,196
Speaker 5: That's one thing that just about everybody can do pretty easily,

1223
00:58:16,716 --> 00:58:18,396
Speaker 5: even if they don't have a lot of time, energy,

1224
00:58:18,476 --> 00:58:18,876
Speaker 5: or money.

1225
00:58:19,156 --> 00:58:24,876
Speaker 7: Dan, this is less a hack and more of a

1226
00:58:24,916 --> 00:58:25,836
Speaker 7: piece of good news.

1227
00:58:26,076 --> 00:58:29,796
Speaker 6: I spent thirty years as a news anchor, and now

1228
00:58:29,916 --> 00:58:33,196
Speaker 6: my job is basically to spread one piece of news,

1229
00:58:33,196 --> 00:58:36,316
Speaker 6: which is extremely good news, which is that the science

1230
00:58:36,396 --> 00:58:40,516
Speaker 6: is showing us that happiness is not an unalterable factory setting.

1231
00:58:40,876 --> 00:58:43,956
Speaker 6: It's a skill that you can practice in many many ways,

1232
00:58:43,956 --> 00:58:47,716
Speaker 6: from meditation to getting out in nature, getting more sleep, exercise,

1233
00:58:47,996 --> 00:58:51,436
Speaker 6: social fitness as it's sometimes called, you know, boosting your

1234
00:58:51,516 --> 00:58:54,116
Speaker 6: ability to connect with other people. You don't have to

1235
00:58:54,236 --> 00:58:56,476
Speaker 6: boil the ocean and do them all at once, Just

1236
00:58:56,596 --> 00:58:59,676
Speaker 6: pick one or two that seem most attractive to you

1237
00:58:59,756 --> 00:59:02,996
Speaker 6: and start there. But again, the good news is you're

1238
00:59:03,676 --> 00:59:07,156
Speaker 6: the states of mind that you want are not, as

1239
00:59:07,196 --> 00:59:10,596
Speaker 6: I said before, unalterable factories setting their skills.

1240
00:59:12,116 --> 00:59:14,596
Speaker 1: Doctor Joy, either some good news about mental health or

1241
00:59:14,756 --> 00:59:16,316
Speaker 1: a final suggestion.

1242
00:59:16,156 --> 00:59:18,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I will borrow from the late great

1243
00:59:18,436 --> 00:59:22,876
Speaker 4: mister Rogers who talked about always looking for the helpers,

1244
00:59:23,476 --> 00:59:26,236
Speaker 4: because I think when you are feeling hopeless, it is

1245
00:59:26,396 --> 00:59:29,276
Speaker 4: very easy to forget that there are so many people

1246
00:59:29,596 --> 00:59:32,716
Speaker 4: just all around you doing great things, and so looking

1247
00:59:32,756 --> 00:59:35,236
Speaker 4: at who's holding the door open for somebody, or who

1248
00:59:35,596 --> 00:59:38,676
Speaker 4: paid for somebody's coffee behind you, So looking for the

1249
00:59:38,756 --> 00:59:41,356
Speaker 4: helpers and also becoming a helper yourself. Like we've talked

1250
00:59:41,356 --> 00:59:44,436
Speaker 4: about in this conversation, doing good for others really can't

1251
00:59:44,516 --> 00:59:45,436
Speaker 4: go very far.

1252
00:59:46,436 --> 00:59:48,676
Speaker 1: Well. I want to end with a little bit of gratitude,

1253
00:59:48,676 --> 00:59:50,716
Speaker 1: which might be my tip, right, A kind of quick

1254
00:59:50,996 --> 00:59:53,076
Speaker 1: sense that things are good in life and there are

1255
00:59:53,076 --> 00:59:56,356
Speaker 1: some blessings out there. And I'm very grateful for the

1256
00:59:56,396 --> 00:59:58,676
Speaker 1: fact that all my titans of happiness showed up today.

1257
00:59:59,156 --> 01:00:01,596
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Elmo and doctor Joy and Gretchen

1258
01:00:01,636 --> 01:00:02,996
Speaker 1: and Dan. This has been super fun.

1259
01:00:03,196 --> 01:00:04,596
Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you.

1260
01:00:04,716 --> 01:00:05,516
Speaker 4: It was incredible.

1261
01:00:05,996 --> 01:00:10,436
Speaker 2: Dot As Sills, come on, let's a totin of happiness.

1262
01:00:10,716 --> 01:00:13,196
Speaker 1: Oh, Elmo, You'll always be my tight en of happiness.

1263
01:00:13,596 --> 01:00:18,116
Speaker 2: That's very kind. Doctor Lourie, Hello everybody, thanks for listening.

1264
01:00:18,236 --> 01:00:18,916
Speaker 2: Elma loves you.

1265
01:00:23,876 --> 01:00:23,916
Speaker 5: H