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Speaker 1: Hi, y'all, welcome back. We're going to continue with this

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Speaker 1: powerful conversation with Leon Ford because his story, like so

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Speaker 1: many we share on the show, is the reality that

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Speaker 1: so many black and Latin X people face. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to Part one, check it out now. It's

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Speaker 1: a must listen. But what makes Leon's story so different

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Speaker 1: and so powerful is that he has chosen a path

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Speaker 1: of redemption, one where he makes peace with his reality

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Speaker 1: and even uses his aggressors to help and look onward,

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Speaker 1: not just for his own well being, but for the

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Speaker 1: healing of his entire community. In Part one, we learned

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Speaker 1: about Leon's family, how they prepped him for a moment

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Speaker 1: just like this one. And he's not alone in this conversation.

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Speaker 1: I know many people that have had these talks. I've

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Speaker 1: had them too, But unlike most people that end up

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Speaker 1: as another statistic of police brutality, Leon survived after he

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Speaker 1: was shot five times after a botched traffic stop. Now

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Speaker 1: confined tool we chair. I was curious, how did he

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Speaker 1: gather the strength the courage to face the people that

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Speaker 1: hurt him, to move in the path of forgiveness and

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Speaker 1: helping others. I come from a very loving family, growing

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Speaker 1: up in abundance and abundance of love and abundance of resources.

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Speaker 1: I mean, any dream that I had, I was supported.

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Speaker 1: Any idea that I had, I was supported, even if

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Speaker 1: ali playing my piano for two weeks right when I

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Speaker 1: wanted to sell sneakers, my parents supported that. So it

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Speaker 1: was like growing up in love. That's the core of

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Speaker 1: who I am. And so despite going through this adversity,

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Speaker 1: I was able to hold onto that love. I was

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Speaker 1: able to hold onto that creativity. I was able to

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Speaker 1: hold onto that inner child that is adventurous, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: give up, that loves joy. And through holding on to

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Speaker 1: that inner child, yes I was. I was challenged. I

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Speaker 1: remember reading comments on the news sites about me and

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Speaker 1: my family. I mean some of the most racist comments

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Speaker 1: you can think of. And I never made my shooting racial.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have that language. It was the media that

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Speaker 1: gave me that language. I when I looked at the

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Speaker 1: first article is that black team shot by white officer?

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Speaker 1: That I read the comments with all these white folks

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Speaker 1: calling me monkeys and niggers and this and that. Right, oh,

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Speaker 1: and then I made it racial. For a good period

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Speaker 1: of time, I felt like I hated all white people,

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Speaker 1: And then you know, I had amazing versus and doctors.

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Speaker 1: So I said, I hate all white people with them, right,

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Speaker 1: I hate all white people but my sixth grade teacher

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Speaker 1: who really loved on me, but my German grandma and

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Speaker 1: my other grandma, And so I realized how complicated things were,

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Speaker 1: and I decided it was a choice, like what am

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Speaker 1: I going to feed? Am I going to feed its hatred?

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Speaker 1: Is anger, this resentment, this confusion? Or am I going

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Speaker 1: to lean into compassion, love, understanding, thoughtfulness, innovation, creativity, courage, curiosity.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I decided to do. Growing up, my

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Speaker 1: dad always said, oh, it's chest, not checkers, right, And

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Speaker 1: if the goal in life is to be happy, to

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Speaker 1: of a purposeful life, if that's what I believe to

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Speaker 1: be winning, well why would I choose to play checkers

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Speaker 1: and to just take somebody's pieces for the sake of

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Speaker 1: just taking them and not fully understanding the board? And

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Speaker 1: if I understand the board and I want a good

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Speaker 1: quality of life, it makes sense to lead with love.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite movies is The Count of Monte

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Speaker 1: Cristo and uh Admundon tast is wronged and he gets

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Speaker 1: sent to prison for years and he breaks out of

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Speaker 1: prison and he finds his gold, and he goes back

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Speaker 1: and he gets revenge on everyone who set them up.

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Speaker 1: And then I figets all the revenge. He said, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel any different. You know, there's a quote in

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Speaker 1: a movie that says, God will give me justice. I

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Speaker 1: know people in my neighborhood who lost everything because they

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Speaker 1: had a huge, tragic moment, tragic laws in their lives,

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Speaker 1: and they decided to retaliate, and they wish they could

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Speaker 1: be out here with me right now, spending time with

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Speaker 1: their children, hugging their mom, hugging their father. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that another thing is back to chest me

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Speaker 1: understanding the impact of my decisions. Right, So if I

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Speaker 1: do this thing, what will happen to me? What will

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Speaker 1: happen to my family? What happens if I go out

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Speaker 1: and try to murder a police officer? Even if I succeed,

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Speaker 1: what happens to me? And if that happens to me,

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Speaker 1: what happens to my son? What happens to my mother?

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Speaker 1: For every action, there's a reaction, We know that. You know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I had the time to think through

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Speaker 1: all of these different possible outcomes, and the most so

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Speaker 1: realistic outcome for me in a way I saw my

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Speaker 1: life was choosing to heal, choosing to love, and choosing

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Speaker 1: to find innovative solutions that could prevent other people from

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Speaker 1: going through what I experienced. And healing is exactly what

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Speaker 1: Leon has done. We know from academia that when black

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Speaker 1: men are told they have viable, safe futures, they thrive.

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Speaker 1: He's taken this concept and completely run with his idea

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Speaker 1: of self love that we can heal others by first

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Speaker 1: healing ourselves. Some of Leon's work includes a book titled

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Speaker 1: Untold Testimony and Guide to Overcoming Adversity. He's also published

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Speaker 1: the Leon Self Care Handbook, which aims to support community

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Speaker 1: well being for those suffering from trauma. He's also the

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Speaker 1: co founder of the Here Foundation, which combines police and

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Speaker 1: community members together to create safe community is for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Leon has also been the subject of an award winning

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Speaker 1: documentary that he executive produced. It's been an amazing process,

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Speaker 1: especially going through it myself in many different ways. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: there was a season where writing was therapeutic for me,

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Speaker 1: or reading. There was a season where traveling with therapeutic.

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Speaker 1: But then there was a season where I was very

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Speaker 1: intentional about going through therapy to go back growing up.

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Speaker 1: And I know we spoke about our relationships with our

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Speaker 1: fathers and the many different lessons that we learned having

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Speaker 1: black fathers who are preparing us for the world. Well,

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Speaker 1: I never expected the world to be nice to me.

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Speaker 1: I never expected the world to be equitable. I never

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Speaker 1: expected the world to be just. I expected the world

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Speaker 1: to be I expected the world to be adverse. I

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Speaker 1: expected the world to be unjust because of how I

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Speaker 1: was raised, because of the experiences, you know, my parents

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Speaker 1: and grandparents had. And so it's interesting even now being

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Speaker 1: a person who's a wheelchair user, I go places where

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Speaker 1: people would enquire about how do you navigate the world,

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Speaker 1: And there's something mess step that this building doesn't have

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Speaker 1: steps in these curbs, and how does that make you feel?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, it makes me feel. I always felt

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Speaker 1: like the world is my oyster, but it's not for me.

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Speaker 1: So I just gotta do the best I can to

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Speaker 1: make it work, to make it fit. I'm very hopeful,

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Speaker 1: I'm very faithful, but I'm also a realist. I see

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Speaker 1: things for what they are, but that's what hell me

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Speaker 1: to be innovative and find solutions right, Because if I'm

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Speaker 1: like in a dream world where I'm like, well, there's

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Speaker 1: no issues, it's like, how am I going to be innovative?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is a real issue. Okay, what

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Speaker 1: leverage do I have? What people do I know? What

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Speaker 1: skills do we all have collectively? And then how do

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Speaker 1: we work together to solve this problem? What made you

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Speaker 1: want to get in the trenches with people who you

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Speaker 1: literally especially the moment you woke up and REALI you're alive,

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Speaker 1: you still believe we're going to kill you? Yeah, it's curiosity, creativity, courage, innovation.

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Speaker 1: I'm a problem solvereign, so who would know even more

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Speaker 1: about problems within police than police officers. Activists usually talk

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Speaker 1: to activists. Lawyers talk to lawyers, Politicians talk to politicians,

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Speaker 1: Educators talk to educators, so on and so forth. I

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Speaker 1: saw the value in me not only talking to, but

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Speaker 1: building relationships with every aspect of my community. I know

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Speaker 1: the teachers, I know the philanthropists, I know the people

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Speaker 1: who own the Chinese store, right, I know the Arabs,

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Speaker 1: Like I feelt real relationships to understand my community. I

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Speaker 1: think there's about almost eighteen thousand police departments in America

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Speaker 1: and they're all governed differently, and so I saw a

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Speaker 1: huge opportunity to leverage my platform, leverage my story to

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Speaker 1: not only build relationships with the police officers in Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 1: but also help change the way that they see community

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Speaker 1: and help community see them differently through relationships. This is

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Speaker 1: a lot of work. This is not a PR move right.

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Speaker 1: These are several hundred hours of meetings from lunch to

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Speaker 1: happy hours and dinners, and like meeting with officers who

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Speaker 1: are in uniforms and who aren't in uniform, or going

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Speaker 1: into the schools with officers, and I have real relationships

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Speaker 1: with these officers, and I get to learn some things

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Speaker 1: about their job that I wouldn't have learned and I

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Speaker 1: didn't learn when I had had more adverse relationship with them.

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Speaker 1: It's really heavy work, it's very time consuming. But I

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Speaker 1: was committed to the solution, and I was more committed

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Speaker 1: to the solution than I was to my anger and frustration.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to learn, like what do y'all think?

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Speaker 1: Why do y'all do this thing? Why don't you want

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Speaker 1: to live here in this community? And I get a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different answers, and through his constant conversations I

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Speaker 1: think Leon gets at the heart of a simple but

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Speaker 1: complicated question. Why can't we simply see each other as humans.

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Speaker 1: It's easy for me to be like, yeah, f y'all,

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Speaker 1: y'all are all bad and for them to say, well,

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Speaker 1: f you, that ship was just. But what happens when

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Speaker 1: they meet me, the person and not the story and

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Speaker 1: they have to say, wow, he is a human being,

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Speaker 1: he is a good person. Things shift, and so I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of times, even with police, I know,

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Speaker 1: you know, even black police officers who struggle people think

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Speaker 1: that they don't feel pain of like what is happening

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Speaker 1: to black and brown people in this country, and like

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Speaker 1: if they could, they would be out there protesting. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's very complex. It's super complex. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the more we can have meaningful dialogue and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: happen on social media, I'm not talking about people commenting

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Speaker 1: and just saying some far out there things. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about really breaking bread, sitting down, being curious, trying to

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Speaker 1: understand someone else's perspective. Because we we all have different

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Speaker 1: lived experiences that shape our perspective. We're all culturally conditioned

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Speaker 1: to see the world a very particular way based on

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Speaker 1: where we grew up and how we grew up, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for us to understand that cultural

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Speaker 1: conditioning so that we can find innovative ways to reprogram

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Speaker 1: ourselves not to be judgmental, to be unified, and through

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Speaker 1: that unification, through that humanity, through that love, through the curiosity, creativity, courage,

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Speaker 1: and innovation, we could really solve a lot of our

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Speaker 1: societal issues. But as profound and impactful as Leon's work is,

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Speaker 1: he still was faced with the complexity of his emotions,

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Speaker 1: what makes him human, the very thing that made him

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Speaker 1: react during the traffic stop, and when he heard that

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Speaker 1: the police officer that had shot him was still working

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Speaker 1: in the department, his human instinct kicked in. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to sit down and talk. He's still working as uh

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh police officer, and you know, a few years ago

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Speaker 1: I just had this vision to meet with him. That

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Speaker 1: moment was liberating for me because I've done a lot

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Speaker 1: of self work and in their work, but you never

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Speaker 1: know if you've really done the work until you're put

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Speaker 1: in the position to where if something can trigger you.

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Speaker 1: My philosophy is like acknowledge the harm, work through the triggers,

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Speaker 1: and move forward. When people talk about forgiveness, I don't

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Speaker 1: have the traditional idea of forgiveness like turn the other cheek.

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Speaker 1: My forgiveness is more connected to quality of life. And

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Speaker 1: I always say, can you imagine the quality of my life?

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Speaker 1: And every time I saw a police car, I was triggered,

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Speaker 1: or if every time I thought about the officer that

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Speaker 1: shot me, I was triggered. I've been in situations where

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Speaker 1: I was around family and we were having a great time,

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Speaker 1: and I had one moment where I thought about police

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Speaker 1: and I completely shut down and couldn't enjoy that time

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Speaker 1: with my family. And so I didn't want these officers

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Speaker 1: to continue to take that away from me. And that

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Speaker 1: was one of the things that encouraged me to actually

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Speaker 1: go to therapy and work through this trauma. And so

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Speaker 1: I only had the platform to sit down with the

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Speaker 1: officer who shot me, and I didn't have any expectations.

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Speaker 1: I didn't need an apology or anything like that. I

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Speaker 1: just felt called to meet with him, and UH, we

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Speaker 1: sade and we talked, and uh, the way I describe

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Speaker 1: it is it felt like something out of a Bible story.

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Speaker 1: That may be the most powerful moment of my life,

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Speaker 1: where if you can imagine the night I was shot.

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Speaker 1: I felt completely powerless. I felt powerless in court when

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Speaker 1: we want to trial. But to sit across from him

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Speaker 1: and not be triggered, it was like undescribable for any

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Speaker 1: listeners out there. If you've ever experienced harm, someone who

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Speaker 1: have harmed you, and the thought of them can trigger you,

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Speaker 1: look it into their face, seeing a picture could trigger

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Speaker 1: you to actually sit in front of that person and

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Speaker 1: there's no trigger. You completely take your power back. All

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Speaker 1: of the dreams they're gone. It's like sitting in front

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Speaker 1: of what you thought was a boogeyman and saying, Wow,

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Speaker 1: this thing isn't as scary as I thought it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is an incredible moment. You have met

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Speaker 1: this man that you did not know at all until

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Speaker 1: this day when you were a nineteen who shot you,

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Speaker 1: got in your car, violated, you changed the complete trajector

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Speaker 1: of your life. You're now sitting in front of and

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Speaker 1: releasing him from your mind, releasing him from you know

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Speaker 1: that that weight he carrid on you and you must

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Speaker 1: have felt one really free. But I really want to know, like,

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Speaker 1: how do you think he felt in this moment, because

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Speaker 1: he had to have been thinking about this a lot too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think he was confused. I think he was wondering, like,

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Speaker 1: what is your motive for this? I also think it

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Speaker 1: was liberating, you know, again for him to see me

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Speaker 1: as a human being, to hear my mission and to

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Speaker 1: film my humanity. I mean, this guy was he was

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Speaker 1: looking at me like I was like an angel or something.

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Speaker 1: You know. He didn't say a bunch of words. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he had the words, because you gotta

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Speaker 1: figure I've been on the therapy for years now, so

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Speaker 1: in therapy it's helped to provide me with the words

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Speaker 1: to express myself. Whereas, like I believe that he was

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Speaker 1: in the beginning of his healing journey. So yeah, very interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's fascinating. And I guess the last question I

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Speaker 1: have for you today is, you know, having this interaction

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Speaker 1: and now doing the work that you do, how are

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Speaker 1: you feeling about the future of the relationships between you know,

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Speaker 1: black people and the police, especially as we enter the

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Speaker 1: mid terms and more election cycles where this will always

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Speaker 1: become a bit topic. But you know, you were one

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Speaker 1: of the few people I've ever met my life you

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Speaker 1: can say I'm the one that has survivor shooting. I

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Speaker 1: can tell you what I think police should do from

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Speaker 1: a very personal level. So how are you feeling about

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Speaker 1: the future we're looking at now, um, and this is

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Speaker 1: going to go more into what I do have in

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Speaker 1: common with my father and grandfather. I feel like black people.

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Speaker 1: It's important for us to acknowledge the harm, right, It's

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Speaker 1: important for us to work through those triggers, and it's

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Speaker 1: important for us to move forward with munity and strength.

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Speaker 1: We have to let go of the collective victim mentality.

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Speaker 1: We could talk about systemic oppression, the history, and that's

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Speaker 1: important to do those things, but it's equally important for

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Speaker 1: us to be prepared for what we know we are experiencing.

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Speaker 1: And so that mean it's like, yo, we can't opt

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Speaker 1: out of elections right locally or nationally. We have to

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Speaker 1: be involved. We have to work together, we have to

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Speaker 1: pour our resources together. We have to be innovative. We

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Speaker 1: have to respect one another. There's some people within our

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Speaker 1: community who absolutely would not and do not want to

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Speaker 1: understand police officers, and that's okay. We need those people too, right,

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Speaker 1: We need those people who are going to protest. We

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Speaker 1: are a community, and as a community, we have to

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Speaker 1: understand that many different barriers that we are all faced

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Speaker 1: with and find a way to collaborate despite our differences.

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Speaker 1: And if we can collaborate despite our differences, I believe

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Speaker 1: that people would treat us different generally. I recognize my

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Speaker 1: privilege even as a wheelchair user. As we're building communities,

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Speaker 1: we can leverage privilege, and so that's what I try

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Speaker 1: to do. I live in a bubble because of the

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Speaker 1: many different relationships that I have, and I know that

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Speaker 1: people in my neighborhood, they don't live in that bubble

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Speaker 1: if I'm not intentional about sharing the bubble right, so

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Speaker 1: we have to share. Sharing privilege is very important, and

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Speaker 1: it's not a social media thing. The world is complicated.

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Speaker 1: You have poor people, wealthy people, you have people in

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Speaker 1: the middle. Yeah, people with different religious views, different sexualities,

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Speaker 1: all these different views. But then there's relationships, and relationships

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Speaker 1: are complicated. You g have a very strong view, but

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Speaker 1: meet somebody who completely shift your perspective about a group

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Speaker 1: of people. It's very complicated. Then if we let of

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Speaker 1: the victim mentality and get into problem solving mode, and

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Speaker 1: some people would say we shouldn't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: I have friends who are like, it's not my job

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Speaker 1: to teach white people about what I experience. But then

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Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, well, who's going to teach them. I

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Speaker 1: think it's very important for individuals who are in the

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Speaker 1: deep right, who who are doing some really important work

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Speaker 1: that is heavy, to experience life and to find joy

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Speaker 1: that can accompany the work. The work that I do

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Speaker 1: is very heavy, um and I think in order for

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Speaker 1: me to continue doing this work in the way that

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Speaker 1: I do, I have to enjoy my life. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like a lot of activists get caught up in

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Speaker 1: the work right, and it's easy because it's purposeful. But

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Speaker 1: joy is important because that is what you know, gives

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Speaker 1: me the strength to containue. I think part of what

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Speaker 1: makes Leon's work so different is his approach. He's not

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Speaker 1: afraid to go straight to the source, acting almost as

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Speaker 1: a translator, looking for the right points of intersection and

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Speaker 1: humanity to better coexist. And it's through his body of work,

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Speaker 1: his content, his willingness to put himself out there with

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Speaker 1: the same institutions that hurt him and so many others

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Speaker 1: in his community, that he's been able to help so

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Speaker 1: many others avoid his same fate. And while Leon's approach

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Speaker 1: to working with the people that harmed him may differ

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Speaker 1: from so many activists across the country who are calling

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Speaker 1: to defund the police and take police down. In totality,

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Speaker 1: I find his work and his point of view so interesting,

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Speaker 1: invalid with an orchestra of ways in which we are

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Speaker 1: all trying to make sure that everyone feels safe in America.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Bro, thanks for sharing your plot for him, man.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll have many more conversations. I hope so

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Speaker 1: Leon could be so angry today about what happened, but

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Speaker 1: instead of being angry, he set himself on a path

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Speaker 1: that his goal is to make amends and heal, which

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Speaker 1: is so powerful and so amendable. And it's that level

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Speaker 1: of self love and optimism that ultimately has given him

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Speaker 1: the tools to shine a light and help others move

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Speaker 1: forward on their own journeys. We are so excited for

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Speaker 1: you to be here for season two of In the

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Speaker 1: Deep Stories That Shape Us. Keep coming back every other

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Speaker 1: week and taking these powerful stories of Black and Latin

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Speaker 1: people as they take us on their own healing journeys.

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Speaker 1: In the Deep Stories That Shape Us is executive produced

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Speaker 1: by myself, Zach Stafford and Ivan Chian and mastered by

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Speaker 1: James Foster and our writer is Yvette Lopez. A shout

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Speaker 1: out to our guest Leon Ford.