1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and you're listening to stuff Mom 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: never told you. Now today, I have a little bit 3 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: of a personal gripe, but this episode is based on, 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: which is that I bought what I thought was a beautiful, 5 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: beautiful skirt. I couldn't wait to try it on. It 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: was pretty expensive, more money than I usually drop on 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: an outfit I get at home, and it has those 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: damn decorative pockets, but aren't even really real pockets where 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: they like the ones that are so shut. They're just 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: like not even they give you a little dip and 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: it's not you can't put anything in there, So they're 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: just for fashion. They're just decorative, decorative pockets, decorative pocket 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: because god forbid I have anything to carry a phone on, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: a pencil or whatever. And it got me thinking, where 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: are the are the pockets on women's clothing? What is 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: going on? Where do they? Where did we go? And 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: on the other side, I'm the kind of person who 18 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: if I'm in the fitting room trying an address, especially 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: formal addresses, I found this in more formal gowns especially, 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: and I'm on the fence about it looks good fits, 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: good fabrics, cool, Okay, I kind of like it, and 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: then I realized as my hands go down the sort 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: of waste of the gown itself. Oh my god, there 24 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: are pockets in this dress. Instantly sold. Pockets are such 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: a game changer. There's a total apparel game changer decision making, 26 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: like absolutely going from the maybe category to the hell yeah, 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm bringing that home category. I don't feel like we're 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: exaggerating the extreme pleasure that pockets on garments, real pockets, 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: functional pockets give us. And we're backpack love and women. 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like we're without a good satchel 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: on occasion. I'm not really a purse totor as much 32 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: anymore since I discovered the love of a good formal backpack, 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: which you you that I was a little plug for. 34 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: If you are a sporty gal, get yourself a apolished backpack, 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: a work backpack and love. So, first of all, I 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: get it. Yes, this is totally totally a first world problem. 37 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: You might be thinking, you know, bridget of all the 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: things going on in the world right now, pockets really, 39 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: but listen to this. Fashion is actually political, right, Like 40 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: most things in this day and age, It's not just fashion. 41 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: It's not just a skirt. It's not just a pocket. 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: It's actually political, and like many things, it does raise 43 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: I think some interesting points of that gender. Absolutely, and 44 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: if you look at the consumer data, if you really 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: think about the economics of fashion and apparel, women are 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: the ones making those decisions in the fitting rooms more 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: than men. Quite frankly, women are the biggest spenders when 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: it comes to fashion. Women of every age group consistently 49 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: outspend their male counterparts on apparel. According to the Sage 50 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: Business Researcher back in fifteen, the average annual expenditures when 51 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: it comes to how much you're spending money on clothing 52 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: peaked for both groups in the thirty five to forty 53 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: four age range. Oh so I have more spending ahead 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: you women. I'm a vestip shop any be shopping. We're 55 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: the women spending so one thousand, five one dollars a 56 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: year and men spending nine sixty one. Those are kind 57 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: of big numbers. Are kind of big numbers. So women, 58 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: women be shopping. We were the biggest consumers when it 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: comes to fashion. We spend the most money. And that's 60 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: why I think it's so frustrating that these retailers are 61 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: still not giving us products that fit for our lives 62 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: and are functional for our bodies. I think you see 63 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: that in a whole different way when it comes to 64 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: plus size women in the clothing options that are available 65 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: to them. But even something as small as pockets, I 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: think really demonstrates how this industry that is dominated by 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: women consumers and should be giving us things that fit 68 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: our lives and our needs, it's just really failing. Well, 69 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: it's it's that fashion over function for warm, right, It's 70 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: this decision someone is making that I think it's important 71 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: for us that our clothes are fashionable. I think consumers 72 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: care about fashion, but somebody is saying fashion is more 73 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: important than function. Well, actually, Emily, a lot of experts 74 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: out there would agree with you. One reason why people 75 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: say that there are so few pockets of women's clothing 76 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: is because mid range fashion, that stuff like you and 77 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: I are probably wearing a lot of, you know, your 78 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: gaps and your j cruse, those are actually dominated by 79 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: male designers, and male designers are much more concerned with 80 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: things like fit and drape than functionality. Over at the Atlantic, 81 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: they interviewed Camilla Olsen, who is a creative director of 82 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: a high tech fashion firm, and she says that there's 83 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: inherent sexism within the industry that keeps things like pockets 84 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: and other functional garments being standard in women's clothing. She 85 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: goes on to say, Honestly, I believe the fashion industry 86 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: is not helping women advance, and the lack of functional 87 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: design for women is one example. We women know that 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: clearly we need pockets to carry technology, and I think 89 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: it's expected that we were going to carry a purse 90 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: when they're working. We don't, okay, persons around a pocket 91 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: is a reasonable thing. And so I think it's interesting 92 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: how she makes this point that because of the heavy 93 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: male dominated fashion industry, women aren't getting clothing that's actually 94 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: functional for us to live our lives. That's so sad. 95 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: It seems like such a missed opportunity. And yet again, 96 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: if you look at every industry, once you get to 97 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: the top ranks, like the director ranks of pretty much 98 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: every industry, you start to see women become fewer and 99 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: farther between. And even though there are some notable exceptions, 100 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: I think Jenna Lyons was a really noteworthy creative director 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: who put Jaku on the map quite frankly in the 102 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: odds right, Um, it's so true that even in the 103 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: female dominated spaces like retail, when you look at the 104 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: creative directors who are wielding the most power making the 105 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: biggest decisions that influence the direction of design, they're still 106 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: predominantly male. Yeah. What a mismatch between the audience that 107 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: you're trying to serve and the decision makers. Because how 108 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: could an industry that purports to serve women have so 109 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: few women at the at the highest highest levels and 110 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: get it so wrong when it comes to giving us 111 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: things that we actually can use. I don't know, but 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: it's I think it's yet another case for wide diversity 113 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: and leadership is actually good for business. Definitely. Do you 114 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: wear a lot of J Crew. I don't own a 115 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: single piece of Jake. Here's my beef with J Crew. 116 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: I used to love J Crew when it was cool, 117 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: functional things that fit. Now I feel like I go 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: in there and everything is like embellished. I'm like, how 119 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: do I watch this? It will be like a shirt 120 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: that has bedazzled stuff on it, and I'm like, how 121 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: do I watch this? Is my first thought whenever I 122 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: pick up something from Anthropology or Jay Crew these days. 123 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: And Yeah, and you were not missing anything other than 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: having clothes that are dirty forever in your closet because 125 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: you can't wash them. I seem to recall a Fabreeze 126 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: conversation we've had on there. There was a Fabrize conversation 127 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that was a J Crew garment in question. 128 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: So let's get this straight. Bridget doesn't wash her hoodies. 129 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: She for breezes her hoodies, and Ergenes doesn't wash her jeans, 130 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: and now all of your other garments from an anthropology 131 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 1: and I'm not doing any laundry. You're like, I'm piecing together. 132 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: You're just not watching anything. I approved that message, girl. 133 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,559 Speaker 1: I know you know what I think I just thought 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: of as we were planning for this episode. It didn't 135 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: come up. But I'm going to sound like a walking 136 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: talking ad for one of our sponsores right now. But 137 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: how is the rental clothing industry changing this? Because I mean, 138 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: I looked at that number, fift dollars expenditure a year 139 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: and I'm like, get on that Latote bandwagon right like, 140 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: where clear the Litote sponsors our podcast? And I'm also, 141 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: where did you get that jacket? I've always send to 142 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: toe and lttote right now, but between rents the runway 143 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: and litote and subscription rental services like that. You never 144 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: have to do launching again, well not even that, I don't, yes, 145 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: because you can send your clothes back dirty, which is 146 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: part of the perk. And furthermore, I don't spend on 147 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: I don't buy clothes anymore. I just rent. I love it. Yeah, 148 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: it's like Netflix for clothes. Yes, I like it anyway. 149 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: So that's why I haven't stepped footing in an anthropology 150 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: in a deck in. At a certain point, I wonder 151 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: if it's sort of we're going culturally, We're going less 152 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: toward owning and more toward renting things like you know, 153 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: why have a car where you can use lift? Why? 154 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: You know? It's it seems like that like we're heading 155 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: towards that as a culture in some weird way sharing 156 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: economy for sure. And I wonder if that's a net 157 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: positive for the environmental impact of clothing. Do you think 158 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: people throw out tons of clothes all the time because 159 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: this is like up cycling? Oh yeah, well actually, Emily, 160 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: the average American talks about eighty two pounds of textile 161 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: waste each year, which adds up to eleven million tons 162 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: from just our country, just from America that a lot 163 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: of clothing being thrown out. Wow. So I just I 164 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: think the sharing economy can sort of be part and 165 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: parcel with this minimalist movement, and I wonder how that 166 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: will impact the way that designers are making clothing design decisions. 167 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: I hope we'll see more pockets. Maybe I can have 168 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: a small influence by just renting things with pockets, Like, 169 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: it's very cool you're doing part. If you're doing your 170 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: part for pocket equality, you know. I wish I could 171 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: show you all the jacket and wearing right now. It's 172 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: got some deep pockets. It's got deep pockets, and it's 173 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: super chic and functional and by the way, it's reversible. Yeah, okay, 174 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, sponsors, give us more. Oh my god, 175 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: you know what you look like right now that you 176 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: ever watched The Fresh Prince how he turns his jacket 177 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: inside out, his uniform jacket, That's exactly what's happening right now. 178 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: It's got like a leather shoulder decals and now on 179 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: the inside feels like this nice little like pad like 180 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: shoulder pad. It's cute, right, this is now a jacket 181 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: centric podcast. Sorry, they're like what are you dragging about? 182 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: We can't see we'll post. Okay, good, I'm ready. So 183 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: it's interesting that you say that this minimalist sort of 184 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: sharing economy, um cultural thing might be influencing our fashion. 185 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: Another thing that has really been influential on whether or 186 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: not garments of pockets is technology. So back when the 187 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: iPhone six came out, you might remember, it's pretty pretty large, 188 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: and most men's garments actually had pockets where you could 189 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: put your iPhone in, but women's garments really didn't. And 190 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: so when the iPhone came out, the new big one, 191 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people were like, yeah, like, I can't 192 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: put this in my pocket. What am I gonna do? 193 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to carry it in my hand or 194 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: put it in my bag or whatever. And actually, mash 195 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: double talked to five different fashion brands Levi's, l L, 196 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: beIN J Crew, American Eagle, and Lee to ask them 197 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: if this new iPhone was going to have them adding 198 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: bigger pockets to their women's garments. Most of them gave 199 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: some kind of variation of maybe, we'll see, but for 200 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: the most part the answer was a no. I wonder 201 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: if they did, though, because I am a gap gene 202 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: loyalist because once I found a pair of jeans that 203 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: actually fit my body, I was like, Okay, I'm done 204 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: shopping around because this is hard. But I've split a 205 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: few pairs of pockets like jeans in my time because 206 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: I do have the Giant, I have the Giant plus 207 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: the six plus and the back. The front pocket is 208 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: a non starter, right, not not going in there, Not 209 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: going in there. But I had a whole appear because 210 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: I was shoving my Giant phone in my butt pocket 211 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: and it definitely was not fitting. But I like, forced it. Oh, 212 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: don't force it, touche I. I have since found that 213 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: the genes as of late, the ones I've bought in 214 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: the last maybe three or four years have worked fine. 215 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: I really do feel like putting an iPhone in your 216 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: back pocket is a recipe for it falling into the 217 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: toilet in a public race room. So I'm I'm very 218 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: skeptical about putting anything back there. Your case is gigantic. Yeah, 219 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: I actually have the smaller version of the iPhone, but 220 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: my huge, ostentatious phone case makes it impossible to put 221 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: in any kind of pocket whatsoever. Now it's not happening, 222 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: not happening what would you say is in your pockets 223 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: on average, like the functional garments with pockets, Like what 224 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: might you find in a bridget Todd pocket. Well, I've 225 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: actually kind of trained myself to not carry a lot 226 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: of stuff if I don't have my backpack on me, 227 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: so usually like I'll do debit card, I D chapstick keys, 228 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: like I'm oh, headphones, So I'm I'm down to this 229 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: five staples I traveled like and headphones like the the 230 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: earbuds can fit into the front pocket. Yeah, that's good. 231 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: I'm a chapstick person too. One of the things I 232 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: think is kind of interesting is how the ability of 233 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: men to be able to carry things like cell phones 234 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: and women not really having that option for their pockets 235 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: might play out in the workplace. The article that I 236 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: it's referenced from The Atlantic makes this point pretty succinctly. 237 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: They say a man can simply swipe up his keys 238 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: and an iPhone on the way to a rendezvous with 239 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: his coworkers and slip them back into his pocket. A 240 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: woman on the way to that same meeting has to 241 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: either carry those items in her hand or bring a 242 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: whole purse with her. A definitive silent sign that she 243 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: is a woman. So what you're basically saying is that 244 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: there's this added visual acknowledgement of gender differences, which we 245 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: actually know if you look at the research on uh, 246 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: there's some interesting research that's been done on perfumes. Perfumes 247 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: that are especially feminine that sort of just provide a 248 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: little sensory reminder of your womanhood can backfire in interviews. Interesting, 249 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: so even though it seems really small, like a tiny detail, 250 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: it can still sort of come up in ways that 251 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: you maybe you don't expect. Well, it sort of gives 252 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: you this impression, Oh, she's a girly girl, or the 253 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: purse can be like, what kind of purse is it? 254 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: Is she a kind of woman who has a nice 255 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: purse that she takes care of, or like me, trashes 256 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: every person she's ever owned because I can't seem to 257 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: keep any of my belongings in nice shape, and what 258 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: does that say about her? It's just another way for 259 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: people to judge you. Interesting. This is kind of a 260 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: random anecdote, but I have a friend who is a 261 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: military wife, and one of the things that she says 262 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: of all that sort of hurtful, ridiculous stereotypes about military wives. 263 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: One of them that I found the most curious was 264 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: if she owns a coach bag, that means like that 265 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: the stereotype is that means something about what kind of 266 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: military spouse that she is, which I found very unusual. 267 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: It's such a specific thing, oh, because it plays into 268 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: the fact that like military wives are just leeches benefits 269 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: of like the governments exactly. So yeah, so they say, like, 270 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: if a woman has a coach bag and she's trying 271 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: to you know, she's a military spouse, that means that 272 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: she's YadA yadd some some negative stereotype there. So it's 273 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: interesting how these markers of femininity, even though they seem 274 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: quite small or quite you know, like they're not deals, 275 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: actually people can use them to make unfair assumptions about 276 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: what kind of person you are exactly. Yeah, that's a 277 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: good point. And I also, on the flip side, have 278 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: bonded with many a strong, powerful, influential woman over purses. 279 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah you know what I mean, Like in our own 280 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: company here, I was, well, there's a certain someone in 281 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: the higher highest ranks of leadership and how stuff works 282 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: who is a boss lady all shout out to the 283 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: fact that we've got women running thanks running things that 284 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: have stuff works, one of whom is like intimidating, lee, 285 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: powerful and awesome. And I met her in a very 286 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: formal boardroom like setting when I was just interviewing for 287 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: this particular job, and I'm trying my best to be 288 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: impressive and articulate and also humble and courteous and respectful 289 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: all the same time. And uh, you know, it was 290 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: a pretty formal exchange until we met up again later 291 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: in a less formal setting at the bar, and my 292 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: ostentatious turquoise purse became the thing we bonded over. And 293 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: now I'm like, oh, I'm in we got this, We 294 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: got this relationship on lack and look at where we 295 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: are now. Yeah, it seems like it worked out well. 296 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: It didn't work out well. So it's just an interesting 297 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: thing how in a male dominated space, your purse might 298 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: be something that holds you back, but when you're when 299 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: we have more women in leadership, maybe purses can. Like 300 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: you and I've bonded over backpacks, Maybe purses can actually 301 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: be a way to bond with one another. Well, it's 302 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: interesting that you bring up purses because the history of 303 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: the handbag actually has a lot to do with why 304 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: the pockets on women's garments tend to be so sucky. 305 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: And let's dive into that after this quick break, and 306 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: we're back now. I know that I've been complaining about 307 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: pockets today, and maybe you've been complaining about the pockets 308 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: on your garment, but women have actually been complaining about 309 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: the lack of pockets on their clothing. For quine of 310 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: a long time back in Charlotte P. Gilman wrote, one 311 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: supremacy there is in men's clothing is adaptatitions of pockets. 312 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: Show this in The New York Times. She continues to say, 313 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: women have, from time to time carried bags, sometimes sewn in, 314 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: sometimes tied on, sometimes brandished in the hand. But a 315 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: bag is not a pocket, and she's rights in Christian 316 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: Duor was quoted in the Spectator of saying men have 317 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: pockets to keep things in women for decoration, because God forbid, 318 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: I have an important thing to keep on my person. Well, 319 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: it's just like it kind of reminds me of the 320 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: biking episode, in which it is a very systematic discrepancy 321 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: between it being socially acceptable for you to actually have 322 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: the freedom that comes with riding a bike versus women 323 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: who ride bikes seem like, oh, they could be up 324 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: to anything. Well, you actually see a lot of that 325 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: same idea playing out when it comes to the history 326 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: of pockets and women totally. Back in the medieval era, 327 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: most women had little bags or sort of satchels or 328 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: purses tied around the waste that eventually folks began sort 329 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: of hiding their bags under petticoats, which was a discreet 330 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: way to say I have things, right, I'm a woman 331 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: who owns stuff, and might you know, have whatever I 332 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: damn well please in my pockets. But I wouldn't ever 333 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: brandish those pockets basically in public, visible to all. That 334 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: would make me a radical woman. And in the late 335 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: seventeenth century, even when pockets became much more commonplace and 336 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: sewed into men's clothing, women did not have built in 337 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: pockets because that would have been taboo. So they continued 338 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: to have these sort of tied on versions until the 339 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: French Revolution really changed the game when wide skirts were 340 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: out out with let them eat cake style of the 341 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: French Revolution, and what became much more in vogue were 342 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: skirts closer to the body, sort of less flamboyant really, 343 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: so there was less room for pockets, so that whole 344 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: pocket conversation became null and void for women who continued 345 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: to harry the reticule, a small decorative purse instead of 346 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: God forbid they should go out in public with pockets, 347 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: because they would be outing themselves as a woman with things, 348 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: maybe having things of her own. God, heaven forbid you 349 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: have to carry things and be a woman. What I 350 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: love is that in the eighteen hundreds, the Irrational Dress 351 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: Society began pushing for women to abandon the stiffness. Of course, 352 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: it's for looser clothes that had lots and lots of pockets. Radical, radical, 353 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: can you imagine? Founded in eighteen nine, the Rational Dress 354 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: Society called for women to dress for health, ditching corsets 355 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: in favor of boneless days and bloomers, wearing loose trousers, 356 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: and adopting clothing that allowed for movement, especially bicycling. So 357 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 1: it is connected, it is, It's very much connected. It's 358 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: very much connected. An eighteen New York Times piece made 359 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: this really really funny many sort of tongue in cheek 360 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: claim that civilization itself is actually founded on pockets. They write, 361 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: as we became more civilized, we need more pockets. No 362 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: pocketless people have ever been great since pockets were invent 363 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: it and the female sex cannot rival us while it 364 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: is pocketless. So basically this was like a very overt 365 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: and clearly insecure male person saying, um, you know, let's 366 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: keep women out of power, let's not allow them to 367 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: have pockets. I've often and this is not our research point, 368 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: it's just my own opinion. I've often not that heels 369 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: with the same way, right, while women are tottering around 370 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: on heels, we'll keep them well. Then used to wear 371 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: heels all the time during the American Revolution, right, So 372 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: if you think about it, men ditched heels, kicked off 373 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: the heels, and women's heels got taller. I almost wonder 374 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: if the men were like, hey, we're having trouble getting 375 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: from point A to point B on these heels. This 376 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: is dumb. Let's wear regular shoes and then pressure women 377 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: into wearing heels. I think that's the next episode, right, 378 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: I think you have to do on our how a 379 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: tire got gendered, because think about it, like, did you 380 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: know that for button up shirts, men's buttons are on 381 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: one side and women's buttons are on the other, Like 382 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: there are so many weird little particulars about gendered clothing 383 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: that have these fascinating histories. Oh my gosh, let's do 384 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: more on that. I love that. So just bringing it 385 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: back to pockets for a second, this idea of pockets 386 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: for women was a total game changer for gun toten 387 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: bike riding women, which I thought was amazing. Back in 388 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: eight one designer of women's bicycle costumes, which were what 389 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: they were called at the time, the things that these 390 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: daring women who biked might actually wear even included pockets 391 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: for pistols. Quote. Not all of them want to carry 392 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: a revolver, said the anonymous tailor, quoted by the New 393 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: York Times at the time. But a large percentage do, 394 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: and make no bones about saying so. Even when they 395 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: do not tell me why they want the pocket, they 396 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: often betray their purpose by asking to have it lined 397 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: with duck or leather. So basically, this tailor is like 398 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: sewing in duck lined pockets for these women on bicycles 399 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: to carry their handguns with them. And you've got I mean, 400 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: you've got to hand it to these pistol packing bike 401 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 1: riding turn of the centry women in bloomers and split 402 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: skirt suits because they're right to vote. You know, granted 403 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: in the Nineteenth Amendment was still twenty six years away 404 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: when these women were practicing their Second Amendment rights. Well, 405 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: what I love about this is that it almost goes 406 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: back to our episode about biking and that are all 407 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: sort of connected to this idea of freedom where they 408 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: can have free reign. Men don't know what they're getting 409 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: up to where they're going, and it's like, yeah, I'm 410 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: a woman that's got to carry and stuff to do 411 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: it coulis to be Yeah, and I've got pockets and 412 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: you don't need to get to know what's inside of 413 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: them exactly. It really comes down to being a symbol 414 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: of freedom and mobility. Isn't it funny though, that like 415 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: a pocket was considered so much more suspicious than a purse. 416 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: What the hell, I'm not a gun owner, but I 417 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,239 Speaker 1: would imagine you'd be a lot more likely to put 418 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: a gun in, yeah, a boot. Think about the West, 419 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, the women of the West. They all are 420 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: packing pistols and their stockings. Sounds like our next episode. 421 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: All I can think about right now are the women 422 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: of West World, which we could we should unpack that series. 423 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: I haven't seeking at a KSh up on it that 424 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. Okay, I gotta this is my next, my 425 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: next show it. So again you have pockets playing out 426 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: through all these different parts of history when it comes 427 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: to women. Um, pockets were a big, big part of 428 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: the Suffragette movement. If you think about those white Suffragette 429 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: suits that are that our sisters used to wear a 430 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: lot of times those head pockets. In nineteen ten, the 431 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: New York Times had a headline that said, blenty of 432 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: pockets in the Suffragette suit, and it really makes the 433 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: point that pockets is connected to voting or being someone 434 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: that's interested in voting. The article goes on to say 435 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: it has pockets of plenty, and it's exactly what you'd 436 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: expect for a woman with polls on her mind. I 437 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: love it. And they go on to say that it's 438 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: all within sight and the things in her pockets would 439 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: be easy to find even for the wearer. So I 440 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: just think it's funny that what's radical about that is 441 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: like someone is daring to wear pockets in broad daylight 442 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: and broad daylight, like, what what are they doing? Right? 443 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: You don't know, you don't know. So if you want 444 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: to pick a deep dive into the history of pockets. 445 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: I definitely recommend this really long throw article un Racked. 446 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: One of the points they made about pockets and the 447 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: suffragets is that there was a kind of anxiety around 448 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: women that had pockets. They right, this last bit about visible, 449 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: straightforward pockets hinted all the lingering anxiety over women's clothing, privacy, 450 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and property. It's not merely that women will strut with 451 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: their hands in their pockets on point the challenge men, 452 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: It's that women's pockets could carry something secret, something private, 453 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: something deadly. Yeah, you never thought about pockets as being 454 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: this mysterious. I mean, we just carry chapstick in ours, 455 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: but you don't know what we got in there. You know. 456 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: It makes me feel like I need to get some 457 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: more edgy pocket filler items, Like maybe my chapstick is 458 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: disappointing a little when when you think about that some 459 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: women were expressly using pockets to carry guns. Your chapstick 460 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: seems a little bit wimpy, right, Not that we're saying like, 461 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: go lock and load in your pockets. Get ready, patriarchy 462 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: and we should do an episode women in gun control. 463 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: That's a whole that's a good one. So I really like, 464 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: it's interesting how something as small as pockets actually has 465 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: this really dense political and gendered history. But you know, 466 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: why do we even think about women's clothing versus men's 467 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: clothing in the first place. Let's talk more about that 468 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: after this quick break and we're back talking about men's 469 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: pockets versus women's pockets. But really, what's the big deal 470 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: with gendered clothing anyway? Like, why do we have clothing 471 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: that's this kind of way for men and this kind 472 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: of way for women. That doesn't seem to be the 473 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: way that gender plays out, And so it's interesting that 474 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: that's the way that it plays out when it comes 475 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: to clothing. I mean, we've seen the rebellion on the 476 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: toy aisle, right, We've seen how the Pink Barbie aisle 477 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: and the Blue Boys Toys aisle have become a thing 478 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: of the past. And I love seeing that retailers are 479 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: starting to question whether these strict binary sections for women's 480 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: versus men's clothing really makes sense anymore. And I would 481 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I would argue that most of our listeners 482 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: to identify as women shop in the women's department, and 483 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: the question is, like, should there be a women's department. 484 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: Well that's the thing. I mean, we know gender isn't 485 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: a binary, so it seems like we should stop treating 486 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: clothes like their binary. I actually do wear a lot 487 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: of men's clothing because my style icons are probably James 488 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: Dean and Pugsley Adams from the Atoms and Way sort 489 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: of if they had a kid and that kid wore 490 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: a lot of black. So yeah, I definitely am down 491 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: with a little bit of um, you know, unisex clothing. 492 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting how you see big retailers 493 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: who can really be shaping how these industries think about 494 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: gender and clothing, saying no, we're gonna move away from 495 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: gendered things and have a more unisex vibe. Self Ridges, 496 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: a high end department store in the UK, announced that 497 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: it was getting rid of gendered floors and it would 498 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: just have three floors of fashion merchandise together so that 499 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: customers could shop according to their own self expression. And 500 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: other high end designers like J. W. Anderson, Rick Owens 501 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: and rad Harani have championed gender neutral clothing and the 502 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: approaches filtered down to the high street sort of H 503 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: and M and Zara, which have both created non gendered ranges, 504 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: which I think is really interesting because a androgynous style 505 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: has always been a mainstay on the runway, right, I 506 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: mean you've even seen it more like on the runway 507 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: these days. You've seen a lot of notable examples of 508 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: people just having you know, more androgynous style, which I 509 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: always thought was really cool, really cool. And I really 510 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: think that the hipster moment was a turning point because 511 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: hipster fashion, as cliche as it has become, that sort 512 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: of Brooklyn beanie wearing hip look looks very identical when 513 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: expressed by someone who identifies as a man versus a woman, 514 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: and there was sort of this weird backlash I think 515 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: when hipster style became more mainstream, which was that you've 516 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: stolen the look of lesbians, or that you've stolen this 517 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: look from like the Game movie. And I wonder if 518 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: like the mains dreaming of gender neutral dress is a 519 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: co opting Oh that's fascinating of like LGBT style or 520 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? 521 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: Just the thing that's happening. I don't know. Yeah, I 522 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: will say that when so I came of age and 523 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: like the scene st hipster time, if you remember that time, 524 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: it was the Alt adds, so we were all dressing 525 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: kind of weird, low slung jeans. But I remember when 526 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: skinny genes became a thing, my then boyfriend was wearing 527 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: my jeans. We were just like staring. We were just 528 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: like wearing each other's jeans, which I love. Yeah, Brad, 529 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: and I still do that. I actually lent a guy 530 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: a pair of jeans. I don't think I ever got 531 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: those back. Well. I really hope that this pushed towards 532 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: unisex and gender neutral clothing will get us the pocket 533 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: equality we all know, we all deserve, yes, because pockets 534 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: are functional as they are fashionable. The idea of adding 535 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: pockets to something for the look without the functionality makes 536 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: me want to tear my hair out. So I would 537 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: rather see retailers just chewing pockets altogether, then adding a 538 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: stupid decorative pocket just to create frustration and disappointment. In 539 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: bridget Todd specifically, yeah, yeah, save you the trouble, because 540 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: we all know. You know, when you try on a 541 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: dress and it has really good, deep, functional pockets, it 542 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: is the best. I love how Tracy Moore put it 543 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: over at jez Bell and trust me, this is gonna 544 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: sound like an exaggeration, but I don't believe it is, 545 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: because this is how much I appreciate good pockets. Humor me. 546 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: I want you to remember the last time you bought 547 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: a piece of clothing with pockets, real ones, usable ones, 548 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: ones that fit things like the standard night out keys phone, 549 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: I D lip gloss compact. It's a rare thin no, 550 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: maybe an a line dress or skirt, something vintage with 551 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: a full bodied lower half. And the moment you discovered 552 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: that not only was the fabric perfect, the fit amazing, 553 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: but there were actual functioning pockets. Let me ask you, 554 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: was it not the greatest moment of your life? Did 555 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: it not add a skip to your step? Were you 556 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: not astonished each time you reach down and slid your 557 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: hands into the outrageously useful fabric compartment? When women complimented 558 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: you on the outfit, do not reveal to them with 559 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: exclamatory glee that it also possessed something unexpected and lovely 560 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: And was that thing not pockets? I think that is 561 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: so true because you're on the dance floor and someone's like, 562 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: nice dress, and you're like, no, you don't understand this. 563 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: This thing has pockets. It has pockets, like check it out, Like, 564 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: you don't even know how great this romper is, girl, 565 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: let me show you. Okay, pockets full on pockets. It 566 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: makes you want to empty them out and like turn 567 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: them in inside out. I gotten this pocket many. I 568 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: have had many a drunken night in a lady's room 569 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: at a nightclub where I'm like, check out these Oh 570 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: you think this is a nice dress? Check it out 571 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: like it's like you're it's like the bass drop on 572 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: the n And they're always like they always get women 573 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: when it comes to pockets. Women always get it. And 574 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: then it becomes where did you get this? We need 575 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: this in my life? Yes, yeah, that's so true. It's 576 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: bonding over pockets. Well, smithy listeners, I hope that we 577 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: just bonded over pockets. I know you and I just 578 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: bonded our pockets. But I want to hear from you. 579 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: What has this experience been like in your own time? 580 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: What do you think about the rise of non gender 581 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: binary clothing being available. Do you have any feels when 582 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: you put on the pants of your loved ones and 583 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: it fits or doesn't fit, or what does that experience 584 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: like for you? Do you wish you had more pockets 585 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: all the time. Have pockets revolutionized your life? Tell us 586 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: you can reach us on Instagram and tag us in 587 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: all those pocket pictures at stuff mom Never Told You. 588 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: Tweet at us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and 589 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: send us a good old beast and email at mom 590 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: stuff at how stuff works dot com.