Speaker 1: Hey, folks, My Therapy Gecko Live Show Tour is starting
Speaker 1: very soon with shows in San Diego, Los Angeles, all
Speaker 1: over the Pacific Northwest and all over the country, the
Speaker 1: Country of America and like three cities in Canada. You
Speaker 1: can look at all of the cities that are available
Speaker 1: and get tickets right now at therapy geckotour dot com
Speaker 1: or check the link in the episode description. These shows
Speaker 1: will be a combination of group gecko therapy sessions with
Speaker 1: the audience. Plus I've got stories of my own that
Speaker 1: I will be telling from my travels across the universe
Speaker 1: interviewing people as a gecko. The shows are always a
Speaker 1: great time. If you like the podcast, you're gonna love
Speaker 1: the live show. And if you bring friends who have
Speaker 1: no idea who I am, the show is set up
Speaker 1: so that they will probably like it too. Go to
Speaker 1: therapy geckotour dot com or check the link in the
Speaker 1: episode description to get tickets right now. I hope to
Speaker 1: see you guys. And with that said, let's get into
Speaker 1: the episode.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 1: Hello, is this a therapy Gecko? This is the therapy Gecko?
Speaker 1: Who is this?
Speaker 2: Hi?
Speaker 3: When he is Lily?
Speaker 1: Lily, what's going on? Lily, what's happening.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of in a predicament to say the least.
Speaker 1: You're in a predicament to say the least, do you.
Speaker 1: I assume that you called me so that we could
Speaker 1: talk about this predicament. Yes, predict me. Hit me with
Speaker 1: the predict, Hit me with the predict immense. Okay, So.
Speaker 2: I've been married to my current partner for about I
Speaker 2: would say about three years. Well, we've been on and
Speaker 2: off for three years. We were dating and then we
Speaker 2: just got married about a year ago. My ex kind
Speaker 2: of came back into my life, but it's been there
Speaker 2: throughout the three years. And he is also married during
Speaker 2: this entire time.
Speaker 1: Okay, and.
Speaker 2: Me and him have been off and on, like pretty
Speaker 2: often on let's just say that, and we both decided
Speaker 2: to kind of move on with our life and we
Speaker 2: got married to separate partners. Now, I didn't think I
Speaker 2: would hear from him again, and it kind of started
Speaker 2: to pick up, and I was like, oh, we're just
Speaker 2: picking up where we left off, I guess, And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not really happy in my marriage. Are you happy
Speaker 2: in your marriage? And I'm like yes, and no, I
Speaker 2: mean my partner cheated on me too, so it's kind
Speaker 2: of like not like revenge, but I kind of feel
Speaker 2: like it is.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have multiple questions, but it says you're It
Speaker 1: says you're in Japan seeing an a fair partner and
Speaker 1: he's been ignoring me. So now I am bumming it
Speaker 1: out in an airbnb.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was in Japan a while back ago, like
Speaker 2: that was almost like three months ago. Yes, that's the
Speaker 2: same person.
Speaker 1: Okay. Are they Japanese?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, So let me get this situation correct. So you've
Speaker 1: been married for three years. Yes, your husband cheated on you, Yes,
Speaker 1: you forgave him m hm. And now your ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: is coming back and you're having an affair with your
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend on your husband. The ex boyfriend is also
Speaker 1: having an affair on his wife. Yes, okay, where are
Speaker 1: you right now?
Speaker 2: I'm in Illinois?
Speaker 1: Okay, where's your husband? He is currently deployed. Okay. Do
Speaker 1: you guys have kids together? No?
Speaker 2: We don't.
Speaker 1: Why Uh, if you you're not happy in your marriage
Speaker 1: and you don't have kids together and there's another person
Speaker 1: you want to be with, why are you still in
Speaker 1: this marriage?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like I have to be like an
Speaker 2: obligation because my family is so strict. What I don't
Speaker 2: know how i'llso explain it, Like they just they feel
Speaker 2: like if you marry one person, you should be stuck
Speaker 2: with that person.
Speaker 1: How old are you.
Speaker 2: Seven?
Speaker 1: Did your family arrange this marriage?
Speaker 2: No? But they love him to death? Okay, And I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm going to be like a disappointment and
Speaker 2: like let my family down if they find this out.
Speaker 1: What's your name, Lily? All right, I'll break here's the few, Okay. So, like,
Speaker 1: if you're unhappy in your marriage, you really kind of
Speaker 1: have two options, and especially you don't have kids. It's like,
Speaker 1: especially if you don't have kids. Man, I mean like
Speaker 1: if you're unhappy in your marriage, like it's either like
Speaker 1: you gotta try to work it out, but you don't
Speaker 1: sound like you even like it like that, Like but
Speaker 1: this is you only really you only really want to
Speaker 1: work it out if you like like this guy, but
Speaker 1: you don't even like you didn't even like this guy.
Speaker 2: It was it was there before, but I feel like
Speaker 2: some of the things that he did, like cheat on
Speaker 2: me and do other stuff behind my back, it kind
Speaker 2: of deteriorated over time. And then I asked about like
Speaker 2: therapy and maybe we should consult somebody, and she's a
Speaker 2: type to never want to do that, so it kind
Speaker 2: of just bothered me from that point on, and instead
Speaker 2: of like talking to somebody, I ended up talking to
Speaker 2: my ex about it, and that's where I think things
Speaker 2: were kind of went.
Speaker 1: Solf, why are you? Why are you in this marriage
Speaker 1: with a part? There's no there's no reason for you
Speaker 1: to be in this marriage. You don't like this guy,
Speaker 1: you don't have kids that you're staying together for, Like
Speaker 1: what are you? Literally are are you being serious that
Speaker 1: you're literally only doing this because you don't want to
Speaker 1: disappoint your parents.
Speaker 2: Pretty much like they paid for everything they paid for,
Speaker 2: like the bey paid for, like the move because we
Speaker 2: move states. They like, I just don't want to let
Speaker 2: my family down, and I feel like I'd be a
Speaker 2: disappointment because the rest of my family is a reach together.
Speaker 1: Listen. Listen, listen, I listen on this podcast. Listen. I
Speaker 1: hate uh listen. I really try as hard as possible
Speaker 1: to not make this like a direct advice podcast, and
Speaker 1: just like I'm like chatting with people, but this is
Speaker 1: just this is an open and shut case right now.
Speaker 1: It's just this is like an open and shut case.
Speaker 1: There is no reason whatsoever at all for you to
Speaker 1: be in this marriage, like like you're not you're not
Speaker 1: even doing a thing of like, oh, the feelings are
Speaker 1: complicated and sometimes it's like this, and sometimes it's like that,
Speaker 1: and I just can't get try, like we're not even
Speaker 1: getting that, Like you don't like this person at all,
Speaker 1: You have no desire to make it work or be
Speaker 1: with them? What what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Just what?
Speaker 1: Like why are you in this marriage? This is? This
Speaker 1: is this is this is crazy. Who gives your who
Speaker 1: gives a fuck what your parents think?
Speaker 3: This is?
Speaker 1: That's that's I listen, I'm I'm ill, i'll I'm on
Speaker 1: a level with you. You must have been raised in
Speaker 1: like uh uh for you to be feeling this way.
Speaker 1: You there must have been something going on with your
Speaker 1: parents where like they conditioned you to feel this way
Speaker 1: or something like that, because this is this is wild,
Speaker 1: Like do you like you don't like this guy at all?
Speaker 1: There's no there's no reason for you to be in
Speaker 1: this marriage. Yeah, it's it's hard. What okay, tell all right, okay, listen,
Speaker 1: let's what all right, let's get into the parents thing,
Speaker 1: because listen from my perspe active it's it's ridiculous, but clearly,
Speaker 1: clearly it has an emotional hold on you. So we
Speaker 1: can get into it if you want to, Like why,
Speaker 1: what's going on with your parents?
Speaker 2: I kind of just grew up where it's like really strict,
Speaker 2: really like Catholic family, to say the least. My mom
Speaker 2: was kind of abusive a little bit towards me, and
Speaker 2: I would always have to do stuff like to please
Speaker 2: a guy if that made sense, okay, Like anything I
Speaker 2: had to do, it had to be like, oh, you
Speaker 2: have to actually put makeup on, you have to actually
Speaker 2: try when you go out. You can't look like basically crap.
Speaker 2: And it was always like for male gates, like never
Speaker 2: for my own, you know. And if it wasn't, like
Speaker 2: if I would never get dressed up, she would always
Speaker 2: kind of put me down. So I feel like with
Speaker 2: going into the marriage, like I feel like I was
Speaker 2: doing everything to be perfect for somebody that I really
Speaker 2: I thought I cared for, and then it kind of
Speaker 2: fell apart.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine, by the way, you know, Like that's fine,
Speaker 1: like if you go into a thing with someone and
Speaker 1: you thought that you can I mean, especially if you
Speaker 1: don't have kids, right, and especially if you're not like
Speaker 1: in like some I get that some people are in
Speaker 1: like kind of these crazy scenarios with like uh, like
Speaker 1: you know whatever, like the kids are involved, or like
Speaker 1: significant like financial discrepancies are involved, or like there's like
Speaker 1: whatever logistical difficulties involved in like leaving a relationship, Like
Speaker 1: I like, I get that those things can be difficult,
Speaker 1: but in this situation, like or is anything like that
Speaker 1: in this situation that is preventing you from leaving this marriage?
Speaker 2: I would say financials too. Financials and then moving. I
Speaker 2: picked up a lot when I decided to marry this person,
Speaker 2: and I picked up my entire life to be with them.
Speaker 2: And then when they hurt me that way, it definitely
Speaker 2: shifted my mindset because I left my job and I
Speaker 2: was making somewhat decent money. I was working for the
Speaker 2: government at this time, and I was making pretty good
Speaker 2: and he wasn't doing too much because he was injured.
Speaker 2: So I felt like I was providing all the money
Speaker 2: everything into it, and I feel bad like if I
Speaker 2: was just going to pull the rug out too and
Speaker 2: all the money that I saved up, you know, and
Speaker 2: be like hey, like you're on your own, Like I
Speaker 2: can't do that to somebody to you know.
Speaker 1: What on your what you wait, your husband? You said,
Speaker 1: your husband's on his own.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was injured, okay, related accident.
Speaker 1: But he's deployed. Now he's your husband's employed, yes, currently, Okay,
Speaker 1: so your husband's currently deploy your your husband has a
Speaker 1: career with the military. No, no, yeah, okay, so it's
Speaker 1: not even like again, I'm like trying to find and
Speaker 1: I'm like literally trying to find anything like I like
Speaker 1: that of like it's not like your like even it's
Speaker 1: not even a thing of like like a financial provider,
Speaker 1: and like what are they gonna do without me? Like
Speaker 1: your husband's employed.
Speaker 2: So you think that to leave?
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I'm no, I'm like he's the thing I
Speaker 1: like U for for for whatever, Like I like, I
Speaker 1: understand like the various emotions and difficulties in life that
Speaker 1: cause people to do things or stay in relationships they
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in or whatever. Like I understand that, And
Speaker 1: I'm really like trying to like search in your situation
Speaker 1: for anything remotely that is that. But if the only
Speaker 1: thing that you're bringing up is that you don't want
Speaker 1: to disappoint your parents. It's feeling it's feeling open and shut. Okay,
Speaker 1: do you know that, right?
Speaker 3: Do you? Like?
Speaker 1: I don't. What is the benefit of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is the benefit to you of staying in this?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Like, I can't I can't even make a pros and
Speaker 1: consolest with you, Like I can't name a single pro.
Speaker 2: I guess to go back home. I feel like that's
Speaker 2: the pro.
Speaker 1: You get to go back home if you don't divorce
Speaker 1: your Like, what's the pro of not what is the
Speaker 1: advantage of What is the advantage of being in this?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What is the blockade of leaving this marriage with this
Speaker 1: person that you don't like?
Speaker 2: I just think it's it's something that I built for
Speaker 2: a little bit, but it was built on I guess,
Speaker 2: mistrust and two different things. So I guess nothing. You're right.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's really nothing holding me back, and I
Speaker 2: feel like my family has to be they have to
Speaker 2: come to terms to it, Like eventually, is that I.
Speaker 1: Genuinely want to know? Is that the main issue that
Speaker 1: you have?
Speaker 2: I think? So that's all I can really list. I
Speaker 2: did care about him, but we both done things, like
Speaker 2: I said, to hurt each other. And I feel like
Speaker 2: it's just not there. I just didn't want to disappoint
Speaker 2: my family, but it's like they.
Speaker 1: Have to get over it. You know, does he even
Speaker 1: I mean I'm looking for anything, like does he is
Speaker 1: it even a thing of like he really likes you
Speaker 1: and wants to make it work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he was before he left. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: could say that he put an effort, but I feel
Speaker 2: like it was like guilt, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Like when somebody goes out of their way to do
Speaker 2: stuff when they did you dirty, like they hurt you.
Speaker 2: That's what I kind of got out of that. Like
Speaker 2: after I found out, it went all downhill and he
Speaker 2: would try to do anything to stay with me, but
Speaker 2: I felt like everything he was doing was just like
Speaker 2: a facade, like it wasn't real at all to me.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, listen, what's your name again, Lily? Lily? Well,
Speaker 1: literally listen. You should talk to a real therapist about
Speaker 1: all this stuff going on with your family. But if
Speaker 1: you did want Gecko therapy perspective, I mean your family
Speaker 1: like like dude, like I mean, I mean, you're twenty seven,
Speaker 1: but I mean, like I know, like what the whole
Speaker 1: thing of like I'll disappoint your your family. It's like, dude,
Speaker 1: fuck them, what the fuck? Like that's like I don't like,
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. You know, it's totally ridiculous to like stay
Speaker 1: in a marriage that you don't want to be, Like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck does your family have to do with
Speaker 1: like you staying in an unhappy marriage? For Lily, there's
Speaker 1: really no reason, like like let them suck it up. Okay,
Speaker 1: do you know?
Speaker 3: Do you do?
Speaker 1: You do?
Speaker 3: You do?
Speaker 1: You do? You see why? That's I don't want to
Speaker 1: discount it because clearly this is like again it's from
Speaker 1: my perspective it's ridiculous, but clearly from your perspective, it's
Speaker 1: a big thing, and I want to I want to
Speaker 1: understand why.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I just think the way I grew
Speaker 2: up is just a lot of disappointment if I do
Speaker 2: certain things that aren't in the like the right eyes
Speaker 2: of my family.
Speaker 1: I e.
Speaker 2: Like, they paid for a wedding and then I turn
Speaker 2: around and get divorced three years later. It's like why
Speaker 2: do they even pay for it?
Speaker 1: You know, like yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, but you know what,
Speaker 1: you know what, fuck them because you know what, you
Speaker 1: don't pay for your fucking daughter wedding. You pay for
Speaker 1: your daughters, like like, okay, you have to fuck them.
Speaker 1: And here's why, because listen, it was listen, it was
Speaker 1: nice of your parents to pay for your wedding. This
Speaker 1: is my but this is really what I believe. This
Speaker 1: is what what I what I want you to believe
Speaker 1: to Listen, it was nice of your parents to pay
Speaker 1: for your wedding. And if your parents are going to
Speaker 1: do some ship like that, if they're gonna pay for
Speaker 1: your wedding, they should be doing it because they love
Speaker 1: you and they want to help you out and they
Speaker 1: want to pay for the wedding. They're not doing it
Speaker 1: because it's not You're not in a business deal with them.
Speaker 1: You didn't they're they're not making you sign a contract.
Speaker 1: We're paying for your wedding so you can never get
Speaker 1: divorced even if you're unhappy. Like that's completely insane, right,
Speaker 1: like you know what I yeah, yes, yeah, no, yes,
Speaker 1: how I'm know how I'm describing it. If that's how
Speaker 1: they act, that's their fucking problem. That is not your problem, Lily,
Speaker 1: that is not your problem. That's a fucking insane mentality
Speaker 1: to have. I'm deeply sorry for you, Lily. I'm very
Speaker 1: sorry that you have parents that have that kind of
Speaker 1: like insane mentality, But I want you to recognize if
Speaker 1: nobody else in your life is telling you this, that
Speaker 1: that's an insane mentality. It makes no fucking sense. It's
Speaker 1: like it's stupid. I'm sorry. Your parents are supposed to
Speaker 1: be people who like have have some form of like
Speaker 1: something that you can you can trust in and and
Speaker 1: look into. And I'm sorry that like they have that mentality,
Speaker 1: but like, I just need you to realize, if nobody
Speaker 1: else has told you this, that that is an insane mentality.
Speaker 1: Your parents should only pay for your wedding if they
Speaker 1: want to because they want to help you, not because
Speaker 1: it's a contract that you can never get the voice
Speaker 1: if you're unhappy, that's fucking insane. And if your parents
Speaker 1: say some shit like that to you, to fuck them, Okay,
Speaker 1: Like that's just that's completely insane. I don't know if
Speaker 1: anyone else in your life has been telling you this,
Speaker 1: but like that's that's just insane. And I get it
Speaker 1: you have a relation, Like I'm not I'm not your parents' daughter.
Speaker 1: I'm not dealing with the giant emotional brunt of it
Speaker 1: that you have to, but like just from an outside
Speaker 1: of perspective, like you, I just need you to know
Speaker 1: that that is an insane mentality for your parents to have.
Speaker 1: That you don't have to be responsible for their insane mentality,
Speaker 1: and you should feel free as a twenty seven year
Speaker 1: old adult woman to leave a marriage that's making you unhappy,
Speaker 1: not to stay in it because of what your parents
Speaker 1: will think, Like like, that's just completely insane.
Speaker 2: You have no clue, Like how much that just made
Speaker 2: me feel like ten times lighter. I'm not even kidding you.
Speaker 2: Every time I talk to somebody, they think anybody in
Speaker 2: my family thinks, oh well, I'm so ungrateful I'm this
Speaker 2: I'm not, And I'm like, it's not even that, it's
Speaker 2: just when your family acts like a debt collector instead
Speaker 2: of actually being there for your daughter.
Speaker 1: No, that's insaney.
Speaker 2: Like I tried to talk to my mom too about it,
Speaker 2: and she's like, you have everything set up for you.
Speaker 2: Why are you acting so ungrateful? Like you're such a brat,
Speaker 2: Like you had a happy life, Like why are you
Speaker 2: gonna throw it away? And I'm like, okay, but if
Speaker 2: I'm not happy, what am I going to do, like.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a different like there's a difference, right,
Speaker 1: like in terms of like, but it's just for specific
Speaker 1: things like this, like your parents paying for your wedding,
Speaker 1: Like it's okay for you to get a fucking divorce,
Speaker 1: like it's your life like it like your parents like childhood.
Speaker 1: This childhood is not a thing, and you're like the
Speaker 1: gifts that your parents give you, you're supposed to just do
Speaker 1: that shit because you want to, not because it's a
Speaker 1: fucking debt that you have to repay. Like that's insane.
Speaker 1: Like you bring a child into the fucking world and
Speaker 1: you want to help them do these things, but you
Speaker 1: don't do it as a way to like repay like
Speaker 1: your your parents can't act like fucking like debt collectors
Speaker 1: to you. That's fucking insane.
Speaker 2: And every time something goes wrong in their life it
Speaker 2: always has to be because my job, Hey, can we
Speaker 2: borrow X.
Speaker 3: Y and Z?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I should be able to tell you
Speaker 2: no without you getting mad at me or throwing back
Speaker 2: in my face.
Speaker 1: Yes, of course, yes, there could be no reception with
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling. Yes, yes, yes, please leave this marriage
Speaker 1: if you're not happy and and if you're not happy
Speaker 1: in this marriage and the only reason, Again, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of complicated reasons why people stay in relationships and
Speaker 1: whatnot if the only one is that you're afraid of
Speaker 1: disappointing your parents, Please like reconcile that it's completely insane.
Speaker 2: Okay, I definitely will. I'm like, I'm sorry I called
Speaker 2: in about something else, but I feel like this one,
Speaker 2: like this convo went a little bit further, and I
Speaker 2: feel like I needed to hear that my family was
Speaker 2: driving me up the wall.
Speaker 1: No, and then you can just be with who I mean, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and then you can just be with whoever
Speaker 1: you want. Doesn't have to be like a because you're
Speaker 1: just you're you're you're tangled up in the eight thousand
Speaker 1: different chords that I is just I don't even know
Speaker 1: how you like that. That's just I don't know how
Speaker 1: you exist like that, Like that's this is crazy. You
Speaker 1: don't you don't have to tangle yourself on that shit.
Speaker 2: It'd be nice to just kind of do what I
Speaker 2: want without having other people kind of tell me what
Speaker 2: to do. So thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Is there is there anything else you
Speaker 1: want to say to the people of the computer before
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 2: You know what, I just want to let people know
Speaker 2: that you're never stuck then what you're doing. And I
Speaker 2: know people probably think I'm a bad person right now
Speaker 2: from what they heard, but trust if you can get out,
Speaker 2: get out and go see the world.
Speaker 1: Please, all right, take care man, YouTube go bay No. Hello, Hey,
Speaker 1: what's up, homie?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? You actually called Hi?
Speaker 1: Hi? Hello? Hello? What's your name?
Speaker 3: I'm Jeff. I'm Jeff. I'm calling from Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: You're calling from Hong Kong. Are you Hong Kong Eese
Speaker 1: or are you American?
Speaker 3: I am Hong Kong Ease. But it's quite of interesting.
Speaker 3: We have a lot of international schools in Hong Kong
Speaker 3: because of our colonial days from the Brits. So I
Speaker 3: grew up in international schools and that's how I got
Speaker 3: my accent.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, I'm in Japan right now. I've met a
Speaker 1: few like folks who like grew up in like an
Speaker 1: international school and it's basically my understanding is it's basically
Speaker 1: like going to like an American high.
Speaker 3: School pretty much. Yeah, we grew up with American movies,
Speaker 3: you know, American TV shows, American music. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 3: quite It's sort of that identity crisis you have where
Speaker 3: I'm not local enough to be Hong Kong ease, you know,
Speaker 3: considered by the local Hong Kong. But then I'm also
Speaker 3: not you know, I'm like ethnically shiny. So when I'm abroad,
Speaker 3: people are like, you're Chinese, you know, like, for example,
Speaker 3: I can't write in my own language.
Speaker 1: Wait, can I ask you a dumb question? Yeah, Hong
Speaker 1: Kong is China, right.
Speaker 3: Ooh, this can get very political officially according to the
Speaker 3: Chinese government, Yes, Hong Kong is part of China, but
Speaker 3: we are what we call a Special Administrative Region, which
Speaker 3: means we have a different sort of legal and government system,
Speaker 3: so we basically run ourselves in a way.
Speaker 1: Okay, see Hong Kong is different from mainland China.
Speaker 3: I would say, yes, politically, culturally very different. Hmm.
Speaker 1: Interesting do you But when you're in America that I
Speaker 1: what's the word that minutia is irrelevant to people. They're
Speaker 1: just like you're Chinese.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I've actually never been to the States. Interesting,
Speaker 3: But I studied in London, so I lived in London
Speaker 3: for seven years and that's where people sort of go, oh,
Speaker 3: you're just Chinese, you know, they sort of just You're
Speaker 3: just Chinese.
Speaker 1: How did you like living in London? London is a
Speaker 1: good town.
Speaker 3: I actually thought it was really cool. I loved London.
Speaker 3: I think it fit my culture better because, like I said,
Speaker 3: you know, I grew up in a very westernized environment
Speaker 3: even though I was in Hong Kong. And I feel
Speaker 3: like I get along with people in the UK better
Speaker 3: than I do back home here.
Speaker 1: Ah why is that?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's a cultural thing. Like
Speaker 3: I mean, for a start, I expressed myself much better
Speaker 3: in English. I would consider English my first language, and
Speaker 3: so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm actually you know, part
Speaker 3: of the reason why I texted you is because I
Speaker 3: used to be a journalist and I write exclusively in English.
Speaker 3: So I'm a writer in English by trade. And I
Speaker 3: can't write a single Chinese character to save my life,
Speaker 3: Like I just can't do it.
Speaker 1: So uh, okay, okay, I'm gonna ask another crazy question.
Speaker 1: What language do they primarily speak in Hong Kong?
Speaker 3: So Hong Kong people speak, I would say a dialect
Speaker 3: of Chinese called Cantonese. M H. So you know, if
Speaker 3: you've watched like Bruce Lee movies growing up, or like
Speaker 3: Jackie Chan movies. Those are like in Cantonese, that's what
Speaker 3: we speak in Hong Kong m and then you go
Speaker 3: to mainland China and they speak Mandarin, which for the
Speaker 3: whole nation of China is the official language. It's slightly different.
Speaker 3: I would I would say it's sort of like Italian
Speaker 3: and Spanish. You know, they're like similar but identical.
Speaker 1: Right right, right, right right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So, but canton go ahead, But if you speak
Speaker 3: so for example, if I speak Cantonese and I cross
Speaker 3: the border we have a border, uh into mainland China,
Speaker 3: most of the time, we can sort of understand each
Speaker 3: other even if we're just speaking our own you know, dialect.
Speaker 1: Mmm, so you can speak Cantonese, can you write Cantonese?
Speaker 3: No? I I I tried for a while, and I
Speaker 3: just gave up because it's just I never grew up
Speaker 3: learning Anthony's formally, you know. I just learned how to
Speaker 3: speak Cantonese via my parents.
Speaker 1: Wait, you learned it via your parents, But I thought
Speaker 1: you grew up in Hong Kong, So wouldn't you just
Speaker 1: learn it by just existing there?
Speaker 3: So I learned how Okay, I don't know how to
Speaker 3: explain this. I learned how to speak via my parents
Speaker 3: and sort of like you know, obviously the people around me.
Speaker 3: So speaking is not a problem. I can read it enough,
Speaker 3: so I can sort of read a newspaper or I
Speaker 3: can go to a restaurant and read a menu. But
Speaker 3: I can't, like, it's not at a high level, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like, but that's that's crazy to me, Like
Speaker 1: that you like, you are Hong Kongese, you grew up there,
Speaker 1: your parents are both their parents both Hong Kong E's.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, they're both locals.
Speaker 1: And okay, so they're both local. Your parents are both locals,
Speaker 1: and you grew up there, but you can't fully read
Speaker 1: and write the language.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a common problem a lot
Speaker 3: of us international school kids have because we study exclusively
Speaker 3: Lang English in school. They don't really have Chinese lessons,
Speaker 3: and even if they do, it's they import like a
Speaker 3: like a UK system for Chinese, so it's tailored to beginners.
Speaker 3: So I'm sort of at a primary school level. I
Speaker 3: think this is actually quite interesting as a as a
Speaker 3: generational thing. Back when I was in school. So I'm
Speaker 3: thirty three years old, and back with when I was
Speaker 3: in primary school or international school growing up, they would
Speaker 3: actually tell you that you're not allowed to speak Cantonese
Speaker 3: in school, really, and I understand it. It's because there's
Speaker 3: a lot of expat students in school, right and they
Speaker 3: didn't want us to exclude the x BAT kids by
Speaker 3: speaking Cantonese with each other. But then it's sort of
Speaker 3: awkward as well, because you know, I'm Chinese. I have
Speaker 3: friends in school who are Chinese were located in Hong Kong,
Speaker 3: but we grew up in an environment where they just
Speaker 3: discouraged the use of Chinese in school. So I never
Speaker 3: learned it, you know, as a as a study, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. I just sort of picked it
Speaker 3: up here and there from television, from restaurant menus.
Speaker 1: But then as you move about the world, like when
Speaker 1: you go to the fucking bank or whatever and you
Speaker 1: have to read the sign that says, hey, we're the bank,
Speaker 1: do you is that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: So can you do that?
Speaker 2: Shit?
Speaker 3: Yes? I can. I can read. I can read. But
Speaker 3: it's also funny because Hong Kong, as you know, maybe
Speaker 3: used to belong to the British, right, And because of that,
Speaker 3: a lot of systems here still run bilingually on English
Speaker 3: and Chinese. So we have the option of growing up
Speaker 3: just entirely filling out every bank form or whatever only
Speaker 3: in English and never having to write a word of Chinese.
Speaker 1: Really, so you can just like do the whole country
Speaker 1: in just.
Speaker 3: English pretty much. Yeah, and it's quite I also find
Speaker 3: it quite weird that actually, you know, in Hong Kong,
Speaker 3: if you take like a cab, the older generation of
Speaker 3: cab drivers or like the older generation of just people
Speaker 3: will be pretty good at English because they existed in
Speaker 3: Hong Kong when it was still a colony, right, so
Speaker 3: English was very commonly used, whereas the younger generation now,
Speaker 3: because we were handed back to China, they study English less.
Speaker 3: So funny enough, the younger generation don't speak as much
Speaker 3: English as the older generation. You know, if you go
Speaker 3: to I'm sure if you go to Japan or something,
Speaker 3: you know, the younger people are more sort of you know,
Speaker 3: open and more international, right, But Hong Kong right now
Speaker 3: at least kind of has this reverse syndrome.
Speaker 1: Interesting, I mean, yeah, that's so that's fascinating. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: in pretty much all foreign countries I've been to, it's
Speaker 1: the opposite where it's like, yeah, the older generation doesn't
Speaker 1: really speak English and the younger generation, I mean in Japan,
Speaker 1: like there's English proficiency in Japan in general is not
Speaker 1: like it's not huge, but like definitely, like even among
Speaker 1: the younger people it's not huge, but like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: definitely like most most old older cab drivers here do
Speaker 1: not speak English. It's fascinating that the older generation in
Speaker 1: Hong Kong speaks more English than the younger generation. So
Speaker 1: that okay, So you're as a thirty three year old
Speaker 1: who experiences the universe in English more than in Cantonese.
Speaker 1: You don't feel isolated. You don't feel like, oh, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't really do it?
Speaker 3: Do you?
Speaker 2: Do?
Speaker 1: You do you have that feeling where you're like, oh
Speaker 1: do I where the hell do I fit in in
Speaker 1: this crazy world?
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, honestly, it was it was an identity crisis.
Speaker 3: I think it first hit me when I went to
Speaker 3: university in Hong Kong because in university, everyone's in university.
Speaker 3: You know, there's no sort of English international kids university,
Speaker 3: so you start getting mixed into the well, you know, locals, right,
Speaker 3: and when you try to hang out with the locals
Speaker 3: because my Chinese wasn't great. I didn't understand their TV
Speaker 3: references because I don't watch Chinese TV, or I don't
Speaker 3: watch Chinese movies, or you know, they'll go sing karaoke
Speaker 3: and I wouldn't know any of the Chinese songs. There
Speaker 3: was a moment, yeah, in my early twenties where I
Speaker 3: was like, man, I don't really belong here, or like,
Speaker 3: they don't really want to hang out with me. And
Speaker 3: then I ended up having to hang out with the
Speaker 3: expat like exchange students. Funny enough, like they accepted me
Speaker 3: more and I became one of them. And to the
Speaker 3: degree that actually during university my girlfriend was Italian, so
Speaker 3: we dated for like a good five years. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so you know, throughout my life it's always been that.
Speaker 3: And then I think the other culture sort of clash
Speaker 3: was when I started working and you know, like I said,
Speaker 3: I used to be a journalist, but I can only
Speaker 3: write English, right, And you can imagine in Hong Kong,
Speaker 3: where everything is predominantly Cantonese, there's not a lot of
Speaker 3: English papers or magazines, and so I had this moment
Speaker 3: of like, man, what am I gonna do. You know,
Speaker 3: there's like two official magazines in English in Hong Kong,
Speaker 3: and if I don't get either of them, I'm screwed.
Speaker 3: Because I kind of write in Cantonese.
Speaker 1: This kind of brings me to I'm gonna. I'll go
Speaker 1: ahead and read your text that you sent me. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you said hello, I'm Jeff, and I'm going through a
Speaker 1: reality check. I used to be a lifestyle journalist and
Speaker 1: was treated like royalty, and now I'm working for a
Speaker 1: charity in the same industry, and I've become the one
Speaker 1: begging others to work with us. It's been quite a
Speaker 1: slap in the face to see people who you thought
Speaker 1: were friends turn so quickly on you once you're no
Speaker 1: longer valuable to them. So, uh, okay, we'll talk about this.
Speaker 1: What you were treated like royalty?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, like it was like games journalists
Speaker 3: because I listened to your podcast. I know, like you
Speaker 3: play video games sometimes, you know those like game journalists
Speaker 3: and they always get like free free video games to
Speaker 3: like test out, or like people will send them like
Speaker 3: PCs or like super pro consoles for free. It was
Speaker 3: sort of like that where I was a lifestyle journalist
Speaker 3: and I would get invited to like hotel stays, resorts stays,
Speaker 3: all for free. You know, everything's covered. I'd go to
Speaker 3: restaurants like three michellin Star restaurants, you know, which were
Speaker 3: like a meal there in Hong Kong would set you
Speaker 3: back maybe like five six hundred US dollars, okay, and
Speaker 3: they would treat you to that for free, you know,
Speaker 3: just because you're a journalist and they want you to
Speaker 3: write about it and promote it, right, They want you
Speaker 3: to talk about it, they want you to review it.
Speaker 3: You know, they'd fly you out business class to wherever
Speaker 3: you want, things like that, and you know, it was
Speaker 3: just they would pamper you with everything because you were
Speaker 3: writing for a reputable magazine or a reputable newspaper and
Speaker 3: they wanted the coverage, right. So that was sort of
Speaker 3: the life that I was living for the past maybe
Speaker 3: like six years.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, and then it just got a bit
Speaker 3: tiring because I was out all the time. You know,
Speaker 3: I would work in the office Monday to Friday, like
Speaker 3: a regular office job, but then every night I'd have
Speaker 3: to go dinners and and events. And at first it
Speaker 3: was very glamorous. At first, it was like, man, this
Speaker 3: is awesome.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm getting it sounds sick, go wrong?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is this is so I've talked to
Speaker 3: friends about it, which is why I wanted to talk
Speaker 3: to you about it, because everyone's like, dude, that's awesome,
Speaker 3: you know, like you get all this free ship. You know.
Speaker 3: I I used to get gaming PCs too, because I
Speaker 3: used to write for a website called hype Beast. I
Speaker 3: was an editor at hype Beast, and so they would
Speaker 3: send me like all this free gaming ship and all
Speaker 3: this free stuff. I'd interview like Hollywood stars for like
Speaker 3: Disney and like Marvel movies. It was crazy, and so
Speaker 3: everyone's like, why are you complaining? But eventually it got
Speaker 3: a bit too much where I felt like my work
Speaker 3: just overwhelmed my life, Like I wasn't living my life anymore.
Speaker 3: It was, you know, constantly it was work, work, work, work, work,
Speaker 3: And I looked around the people around me and I
Speaker 3: could see the same with them. You know, they would
Speaker 3: be working Monday and Friday like me. They would go
Speaker 3: all to these events on weekends and evenings, and it
Speaker 3: was all just jumbled into one day pile. And then
Speaker 3: all they post on Instagram is about you know, which
Speaker 3: event they went to, which bar they went to, which
Speaker 3: restaurant they went to, and it all became too much
Speaker 3: for me. I felt like I was losing my own life.
Speaker 3: I wasn't tending to the stuff that I needed to
Speaker 3: do at home or my relationship.
Speaker 1: So what so, okay, what about your life needed tending
Speaker 1: that was going untended. As a result of of all
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing was my mental health. I
Speaker 3: think might be sill mental so not to get like
Speaker 3: too grim, but I grew up in sort of like
Speaker 3: an abusive household, and I for the past twelve years
Speaker 3: or like thirteen years, I've been on antidepressants and I
Speaker 3: have like sort of chronic I guess depression and anxiety,
Speaker 3: and like when I was twenty, I was also diagnosed
Speaker 3: with borderline. I don't know if you know what borderline is. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's something that I've been dealing with for like
Speaker 3: the past decade. And I feel like during that phase
Speaker 3: of my life where I was like just setting and
Speaker 3: eating and just partying a lot, I stopped doing all
Speaker 3: the things that used to like bring me peace or
Speaker 3: like ten to my mental health, you know, just small
Speaker 3: things like even waking up and like meditating for five minutes,
Speaker 3: I was skipping stuff like that, or like you know,
Speaker 3: feeding my cats. You know, I would forget. I would
Speaker 3: forget to get like cat food for my cats, or
Speaker 3: I would be really really anxious all the time. And
Speaker 3: I felt like it also started affecting people around me,
Speaker 3: Like I live with my girlfriend, and it started affecting
Speaker 3: her too, because I was just anxious all the time
Speaker 3: about missing that next event, or like where I have
Speaker 3: to go, or you know who I have to talk to,
Speaker 3: things like that. So my mental health took a dip.
Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me about this this part of your
Speaker 1: message where you're like, I'm my friends turned on me
Speaker 1: once I was no longer valuable to them. Who are
Speaker 1: who were these friends?
Speaker 3: Right? So to be honest, this is this is part
Speaker 3: of the question, right, is were they ever friends? You know,
Speaker 3: I worked in the industry for a while, and when
Speaker 3: you go off with events and you go off with dinners,
Speaker 3: always with the same other journalists right from other circles,
Speaker 3: other publications or there's pr people who work for the
Speaker 3: restaurants or the hotels or whatever, and you know you're
Speaker 3: seeing them a lot, right because you're going to a
Speaker 3: lot of these events and you have this connection with them.
Speaker 3: And I I would consider myself like quite an open,
Speaker 3: trusting person, like what you see is kind of what
Speaker 3: you get. And I guess in a way, it's a
Speaker 3: bit naive to think that other people are always like that.
Speaker 3: So when I'm with these people, I'm quite genuine and
Speaker 3: I just be myself and and I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, we get along. We're good friends. You know,
Speaker 3: they they laugh, we laugh, we talk about things. You know,
Speaker 3: We're not like close friends, but I would consider them friends.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So how did they sting you differently once you stopped
Speaker 1: having this gig?
Speaker 3: You know, I think I just so. I when life
Speaker 3: was overwhelming, I decided to leave and then I joined
Speaker 3: the charity that I knew for a long time. And
Speaker 3: this charity is adjacent to what I used to do
Speaker 3: because they also work with a lot of hotels and
Speaker 3: restaurants and they basically help We call them underprivileged and
Speaker 3: disadvantaged youths, but you know, they might be kids like
Speaker 3: orphaned youths or you know, kids with Down syndrome, things
Speaker 3: like that, and we try to find them employment opportunities
Speaker 3: at these restaurants and hotels, you know, simple tasks, things
Speaker 3: that they feel fulfilled doing but not overwhelmed. And so
Speaker 3: we need to work with a lot of restaurants and
Speaker 3: a lot of hotels, right, And that's when I started
Speaker 3: reaching back out to these people and saying, hey, you know,
Speaker 3: it's been a while, I'm working with this charity now,
Speaker 3: and like half of them just ghost me to begin with,
Speaker 3: like nobody ever replies, They just completely ghost you. And
Speaker 3: then some other people start making like you know, terrible
Speaker 3: excuses up like oh we're just too busy, Oh we
Speaker 3: can't do this, we can't do that, and you sort
Speaker 3: of follow up on email with them for like a
Speaker 3: couple of months, and then they just eventually disappear as well.
Speaker 3: And it's just a big contrast, you know, from my
Speaker 3: phone blasted every day from offers of people going hey
Speaker 3: you want to come here, Hey you want to do this,
Speaker 3: Hey you want to do this with us. So like
Speaker 3: now I'm sort of chasing everyone and going, hey, please,
Speaker 3: you know, please give us a chance, you know, give
Speaker 3: these kids a chance, and just nobody replying, just everyone
Speaker 3: ghosting me.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm hmmm. What about like, okay, so you're talking
Speaker 1: about like your relationships in your personal life, correct, like
Speaker 1: how are those going?
Speaker 3: Honestly, starting this job sort of helped with my personal relationships,
Speaker 3: like what I really consider my friends or or my partner,
Speaker 3: you know, my girlfriend, Like I've had more time with family,
Speaker 3: I'd have more time with friends because I don't have
Speaker 3: to go to events anymore. I get to see my
Speaker 3: friends more often. So those relationships have strengthened, I feel,
Speaker 3: which is a great thing. But then there's always that
Speaker 3: nudging feeling at the back of like, am I too
Speaker 3: trusting of people? Am I too naive? Did I think
Speaker 3: we were friends and they never considered me a friend before? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But who do care? Who cares about that shit? You know?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I mean it, I I like, I don't like, I
Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care about that stuff like that
Speaker 1: when people are like, oh, like, uh, am I too trusting?
Speaker 1: Am I too?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Just decide how you I kind of do believe in
Speaker 1: a sense, and I probably get faultimate. I mean, I
Speaker 1: this it's kind of my whole thing that I take
Speaker 1: everyone at face value, and I take a lot of
Speaker 1: the world a face value, and this whole thing of like,
Speaker 1: oh am I being too trusting. It's that's not the
Speaker 1: way to think about it, right, It's like decide how
Speaker 1: you want to be and then just be it, right, So, like,
Speaker 1: you know, do you want do you want to be
Speaker 1: a trusting person? Do you want to take people at
Speaker 1: face value? Okay? Then just do it right, and then
Speaker 1: you do it and then you accept whatever the perceived
Speaker 1: the consequences are of that, which really I mean also
Speaker 1: also kind of decide like how much power are you
Speaker 1: giving a person or an entity to hurt you? Really?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Like if you whatever, like like who are these like
Speaker 1: what can these people really do to you? I mean,
Speaker 1: think about it from that point of view, right, Like
Speaker 1: if you like, let's say you're really nice to some
Speaker 1: guy and you think he's your friend and then once
Speaker 1: you can't get once you can't get him a nice
Speaker 1: dinner or whatever the fuck anymore he stops being your friend,
Speaker 1: are you gonna be like, oh, I'm so hurt that
Speaker 1: this guy is not my friend anymore, or like like
Speaker 1: it's just some guy. What's he gonna do to you?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I Mean it's different. I like, if you're getting if
Speaker 1: you're getting married to someone, or uh, it's going into
Speaker 1: deep business with someone or something like that, something where
Speaker 1: someone really actually can like fuck you over very badly.
Speaker 1: Then you wanna like kind of vet that shit. But
Speaker 1: like ninety nine point of all people and all interactions
Speaker 1: like who gives a fuck?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: Yeah, like if like like like you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: Like like certain like really specific roles in your life
Speaker 4: need to be thought through deeply, like am I being true?
Speaker 1: Trusting? Like and even fund dude, fuck even in those roles, right,
Speaker 1: Like let's say you're dating someone. Fuck even to those roles.
Speaker 1: It's like, let's say you're dating someone or you're in
Speaker 1: a business own or whatever, and you're like, whatever, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna decide to trust this person, and then you
Speaker 1: get fucked over. It's like, well, you know, well you
Speaker 1: go to bed at night and you can go, well,
Speaker 1: I made the decision to be trusting and to put
Speaker 1: myself out there and whatnot, and I'm okay with that decision,
Speaker 1: and I'm living in the whatever of that decision. But
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like I just think it's so I
Speaker 1: don't need to go around being like, oh, is this
Speaker 1: person a snake? Are they gonna It's like who ca,
Speaker 1: what's anyone gonna, you know, do like, who who cares?
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying, Yeah, I do, I do,
Speaker 3: I do, I I understand, you know. Sort of in
Speaker 3: a way, it's sort of taking back control right of
Speaker 3: how you feel and not letting people dictate how you feel. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel like this is something as as someone who
Speaker 3: has borderline that I always struggled with growing up, Like
Speaker 3: I always take things very personally, and so if anyone
Speaker 3: ever has it doesn't even have to be a bad reaction.
Speaker 3: It can just be a very neutral reaction to something
Speaker 3: I do. It would sort of be the end of
Speaker 3: the world for me, Like I would care a lot
Speaker 3: about how other people reacted to me and how other
Speaker 3: people saw me, and if I could share a little story. Actually,
Speaker 3: a while ago, I was listening to your podcast. So
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm quite a tattooed dude. I've got like
Speaker 3: I would say, like half my body's covered. And I
Speaker 3: listened to you one of your podcasts a while back,
Speaker 3: and there was this guy talking about, you know, just
Speaker 3: caring a lot about what other people thought, and then
Speaker 3: you told him and this was I think when you
Speaker 3: were still doing live streams a lot and you know,
Speaker 3: you always used to say, like, don't look at the chat. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then that time you told him like, don't look
Speaker 3: at the chat, but like the chat is sort of
Speaker 3: like the world, not the actual literal stream chat. And
Speaker 3: then that sort of really resonated with me. And then
Speaker 3: I got a tattoo of that. So now I have
Speaker 3: a tattoo look at the.
Speaker 1: Chat, get the fuck out of here. You have a
Speaker 1: tattoo that says don't look at the chat that you
Speaker 1: got from the podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't.
Speaker 1: Get the fuck out of here, no way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And every time I sort of start spiraling into like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, what do people think of me? You know,
Speaker 3: why don't they reply me? Why don't I look at that?
Speaker 3: And I go, you know, remind myself, don't look at
Speaker 3: the chat. Don't look look at yourself.
Speaker 1: Don't look at the chat. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love that. Wow. I can't believe we got a
Speaker 1: tattoo that yeah. Oh my god, Wow, that's so far.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: I'm getting a real kick out of this. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: don't look.
Speaker 3: At the chat.
Speaker 1: No And by the way, yeah, don't look at the chat, like,
Speaker 1: but I do. I do. I do genuinely believe fuck
Speaker 1: especially as I'm getting like fucking especially as I'm getting
Speaker 1: like older, and I'm like like, as I'm getting older
Speaker 1: and as like there's less time, and as there's less energy,
Speaker 1: and as there's like more things I want to do,
Speaker 1: I'm just like and also as like there's less time
Speaker 1: and there's more noise, Like we live in a world
Speaker 1: where there's never been more like there's all there's so
Speaker 1: many things that decide to care about. I think you
Speaker 1: just really I think like you really gotta whittle down
Speaker 1: the things and the people whose opinion you care about,
Speaker 1: Like you should like absolutly like if you if you
Speaker 1: don't care about anyone or anything, like your life is
Speaker 1: going to be an existential nightmare. But you totally should
Speaker 1: like be very intentional about like the things and the
Speaker 1: people that you care about. I mean, I have it
Speaker 1: down in my head. I in my I've like I've
Speaker 1: like sat down on like my notes app and been
Speaker 1: like I care about these people's opinion of me. I
Speaker 1: care about like in like my personal life and like
Speaker 1: my business relationships in my fucking like like like the
Speaker 1: art universe, like the things I want to do. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I like writing I literally have like written down, like
Speaker 1: what do I actually give a fuck about? And then
Speaker 1: you realize, like when when you actually write, like when
Speaker 1: you like what do you actually like? What's actually worth
Speaker 1: giving a fuck about? And then you look at the
Speaker 1: universe and all and all of the infinite things and
Speaker 1: people in the universe that are begging for you to
Speaker 1: care about them. It's too much like the you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, It's just it's too much, and you
Speaker 1: will get swept you will get swept away by it.
Speaker 1: It's like you have to think about like friends that
Speaker 1: you just like don't have, Like everything's a fucking trade
Speaker 1: off you have to think about like fuck, I don't
Speaker 1: have time to like stew over, like but this fucking
Speaker 1: person thinks about me, or like go have like I
Speaker 1: don't have lunch with this fucking person because like whatever,
Speaker 1: it makes life way better. I mean, don't you don't
Speaker 1: want to be one of those people. It's like I
Speaker 1: don't care. I literally don't give a funk about anyone
Speaker 1: or anything because that's just a question, right, It's not good.
Speaker 1: But you want to have like select, yeah, you want
Speaker 1: to have like select few people that you're like I
Speaker 1: really care what this person thinks about me because I
Speaker 1: love them, and like if this person, like if this person,
Speaker 1: like we all have, like you ever have like a friend,
Speaker 1: like in Hong Kong, you have a friend come to
Speaker 1: town and they're like, we should get lunch. You have
Speaker 1: to really and it's like this could take up my
Speaker 1: whole life to go across town of lunch with you.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, you know. Now I
Speaker 1: have people who if they come to town, I'm like, of course,
Speaker 1: I will make time out of my existence. It's because
Speaker 1: I love that, because I really love that person. But
Speaker 1: like I don't want to just say yes to like
Speaker 1: everything and everyone because I just because you just can
Speaker 1: or like on the TV when they're like this person
Speaker 1: said this or this thing happened or like or reddits
Speaker 1: or whatever like so it just fucking so many fucking
Speaker 1: things that fucking people just fucking trying to get you
Speaker 1: your attention away from like the things that you have
Speaker 1: decided that matter all the time. And it's exhausting and
Speaker 1: you really have to be like deeply defensive about it.
Speaker 1: You like addictions to you know, fucking yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: candy takes dude, Candy takes up a lot of my
Speaker 1: time to Candy took up like my whole morning. It's crazy.
Speaker 3: I think that's really true. Like also sort of deciding
Speaker 3: what and who matters to you in what way. I
Speaker 3: think another trait that I sort of have with borderline
Speaker 3: that I talked about a bit late just now is
Speaker 3: sort of it's quite sort of black and white. You know.
Speaker 3: I either say, like if we work together and we
Speaker 3: get along, I'm like, you're my friend, you know, but
Speaker 3: like it's a working relationship, right, it's not like they're
Speaker 3: really friends me. But in my mind we're like, oh,
Speaker 3: we're besties with friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but why does okay? But okay, And another thing,
Speaker 1: and this is all in a similar subject with like again,
Speaker 1: like with relationships, Like like I like having a lot
Speaker 1: of acquaintances. You know, it's okay to have a quations,
Speaker 1: It's okay to have like work for like, it's okay
Speaker 1: to have have you know, your your relationships kind of
Speaker 1: teared out in a sense, you know, like it's and
Speaker 1: and by the way, listen, listen. Let's say you have
Speaker 1: a work friend and you really like them and you
Speaker 1: want to be more than just what they have to give.
Speaker 1: That's okay, you know, like but just just find enjoyment
Speaker 1: in your own side of it. If you start needing
Speaker 1: to have the enjoyment being like what is coming back
Speaker 1: at you, you just get fucked.
Speaker 3: That's where he's zen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to live it.
Speaker 3: But are you getting a lot of zen in Japan?
Speaker 1: Am I getting a lot of zen in Japan?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: Not really? I don't feel I don't no, not really, no, no,
Speaker 1: not at all. Yeah, I don't think that like, uh zen,
Speaker 1: I mean I find I don't like. Finding zen is
Speaker 1: not about like going to some fucking temple, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's about like finding a flow of
Speaker 1: It's like finding a flow and frequency of your life
Speaker 1: that works for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like sort of what you said
Speaker 3: about all these external things that bomb bard you every day,
Speaker 3: and then we kind of developed this idea that I
Speaker 3: will be happier if I fix everything outside or everything external,
Speaker 3: but maybe in reality it's you know, inward maybe.
Speaker 1: No, I disagree with that. I actually think I totally
Speaker 1: I think that I used to. I use it. It's
Speaker 1: total cope. It's like it's it's a stow no, no, it's
Speaker 1: stoic cope to believe that I by the way, I've
Speaker 1: this is just how I feel today. I don't know,
Speaker 1: don't I'm not gonna record this and put it on
Speaker 1: the internet, but I actually totally am because we get
Speaker 1: into a podcast today. But I've I've talked about this
Speaker 1: a lot on the show, and I've just like think
Speaker 1: about it in my life, like the concept of like
Speaker 1: to what degree I'd love to submit myself to the
Speaker 1: stoic belief that like everything is internal, But I I
Speaker 1: don't think that's a full truth because I do think
Speaker 1: so much of one of of internal peace is based
Speaker 1: off external reality, and I think it's a I think
Speaker 1: it's a disservice to say that you can just like
Speaker 1: at least me, at least me. I can't just go
Speaker 1: into my brain and be like this is all in
Speaker 1: my head, Like I can't just do that. Like I need,
Speaker 1: like I just need stuff, Like I need like a
Speaker 1: clean room that's like my own. I need like to
Speaker 1: have like certain certain like things going on in my life.
Speaker 1: I need my life to like feel a certain way
Speaker 1: day to day and like my my external habits to
Speaker 1: have like like I like, I like I need there's
Speaker 1: so much I need reflected in my external reality to
Speaker 1: feel regulated and like normal, and I don't think that's
Speaker 1: uh crazy. Necessarily get a lot of and I get
Speaker 1: I get a lot of motivation, like waking up in
Speaker 1: the morning trying really hard to uh get my external
Speaker 1: reality to a place like that where I'm enjoying the
Speaker 1: frequency of it. But I don't. I less and less
Speaker 1: believe in this like stoic ideal that like you can
Speaker 1: just be chill in your own brain. I mean, but
Speaker 1: that's just me. Everyone's wired differently, right, so there's some
Speaker 1: people some people can just do that. And uh also
Speaker 1: also I'm not like like I like, there's so much
Speaker 1: I don't know about myself and about like neurochemistry or whatever,
Speaker 1: where it's like, I don't know, maybe in like twenty years,
Speaker 1: I'll realize I was doing everything wrong. And I also
Speaker 1: I do so much wrong already where.
Speaker 3: It's like but I think that's what makes your podcast
Speaker 3: so interesting because I've listened to you since like pandemic times,
Speaker 3: and like you, you also evolve and you also develop
Speaker 3: your beliefs. You know, it's a journey for you. It's
Speaker 3: you know, it's not like you just have a set
Speaker 3: of beliefs and everyone calls in and you're like, no,
Speaker 3: do this, do this, do this, And it was quite
Speaker 3: interesting to see your journey to finding sort of your
Speaker 3: truth over the years and growing with the audience. I
Speaker 3: think that was quite interesting.
Speaker 1: Well thanks man. Yeah, I mean, I'm it's still like
Speaker 1: it's all it's progressing. I keep I mean I talked
Speaker 1: to about it with another caller where I was like,
Speaker 1: I still and I and I do. I do believe
Speaker 1: this in the in the true in like the whole
Speaker 1: uh you know, is happiness found externally or internally thing.
Speaker 1: I do believe that, Like I can I can think about,
Speaker 1: like I can map out my life and all the
Speaker 1: different things that were going on externally in my universe
Speaker 1: at different times in my life, and like it was
Speaker 1: just it would just be ignorant to say that they
Speaker 1: don't affect you, you know, like and like it would
Speaker 1: be yeah, would just be ignorant to say that they
Speaker 1: don't have an effect. But it's a yin yang. It's
Speaker 1: like the yin yang thing of like, yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: you can't go the entire like you you can't just
Speaker 1: like retreat into stoicism and have everything be internal and
Speaker 1: pretend like external world doesn't affect you. But you also
Speaker 1: can't have everything be external, right, I mean, like like
Speaker 1: I'll like work for an example, Right, Like I think
Speaker 1: a lot of like people get hung up on, like
Speaker 1: especially in the social media world, like success based on
Speaker 1: numbers and all these things. And I do have a
Speaker 1: thing where I'm kind of trying to make more of
Speaker 1: my happiness about my input into the world and less
Speaker 1: about like the outcome of it.
Speaker 3: So like.
Speaker 1: So like I you know, like I'm making these documentaries
Speaker 1: and like, of course, like I'm working really hard on them.
Speaker 1: And because I'm working really hard on them, I want
Speaker 1: them to get views. I want people to see them,
Speaker 1: because I think it's just a natural thing if you
Speaker 1: work really hard on something, you care about it, you
Speaker 1: want people to see it. But I'm also trying not
Speaker 1: to be too married to this idea that like my
Speaker 1: health and existence as a person is like based on
Speaker 1: the the outcome of these videos. But I get and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be like, okay, like what's a thing,
Speaker 1: Like what's that? What's that? What's a mode of life?
Speaker 1: What's like a thing where like I'm in the most
Speaker 1: amount of control as possible, meaning like for these videos, right,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like, Okay, would I be happy if
Speaker 1: over the next ten years I was able to just
Speaker 1: keep making Like if over the next ten years, I
Speaker 1: just keep making these videos and they and nothing ever
Speaker 1: like pops off again, and all I really got was
Speaker 1: like to have made the video, I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that's a good trade off. I get to
Speaker 1: make a lot of you know, stuff that I'm proud of,
Speaker 1: and I think about that. I try to apply that
Speaker 1: to a lot of stuff where it's like, Okay, what
Speaker 1: processes would I be happy to just do because of
Speaker 1: the process of them, and because I enjoy it? Obviously
Speaker 1: I want like I obviously like I if I if
Speaker 1: I work really hard on something and then it it
Speaker 1: you put it out there and it's not received, well
Speaker 1: it's it is a bummer, but it's not enough of
Speaker 1: a bummer that I'm going to be like, oh, there
Speaker 1: was a waste of time. Why did I do that?
Speaker 1: You know, it'll it I'll still be able to look
Speaker 1: at the work and be like, oh, I'm proud of
Speaker 1: having done this, whether or not the you know, the
Speaker 1: external awards come. But that's how you have to do
Speaker 1: it right, because it to get those external rewards. It's
Speaker 1: going to require years and years and years of you
Speaker 1: just like kind of being only focused on your input,
Speaker 1: and so you have to find a frequency of input
Speaker 1: that you are actually happy existing in or else you're
Speaker 1: gonna burn out. You're not gonna fucking do anything.
Speaker 3: That's very true. That's very true.
Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, I don't know if any of what I
Speaker 1: think I spent on a rant.
Speaker 3: No, but it's it's it's like a rant of of substance.
Speaker 1: I'm trying, but I haven't figured it out yet.
Speaker 3: But Jeff, yes, is.
Speaker 1: There anything else you want to say to the people
Speaker 1: of the computer before we go?
Speaker 3: Don't look at the chat.
Speaker 1: Don't look at the chat. I can't believe you got
Speaker 1: that tattooed on your hand. That's also that's another Dan.
Speaker 1: That's another thing in life where it's like the chat's
Speaker 1: so big. It's there's so many people in the fucking chat,
Speaker 1: and it's like, who do I? I guess stop reading
Speaker 1: the Spotify comments. I'll really I'll watch other'll you know,
Speaker 1: actually has made me feel better. I'll listen to other
Speaker 1: podcast I listened to other podcasts, and then I'll like
Speaker 1: enjoy the podcast and then I'll read the Spotify comments
Speaker 1: on that podcast and there'll be a bunch of comments
Speaker 1: being like, you know, like critical, and I'm like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, and it's like maybe something with my brain.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm crazy whatever, Jeff, is there anything
Speaker 1: else you want to say to the people of the
Speaker 1: computer before.
Speaker 3: We go, Well, I've said the thing, so Gek, you
Speaker 3: should come to Hong Kong. We love you.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll make it over there at some point.
Speaker 3: Please do please do that swag.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I did I ask you that question twice?
Speaker 3: You did? Yeah. My first answer was don't look at
Speaker 3: the chat, and then we did a second take where
Speaker 3: I said, come to Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: I gotta see a doctor.
Speaker 3: Man, it's jet lag. Take it easy, Yes, you too,
Speaker 3: Love you, Gek.
Speaker 1: My name Jeff.
Speaker 4: Never goes on the line taking your phone calls every night.
Speaker 1: Never bet goes doing to ride.
Speaker 4: He's teaching you how to live your life, but he's
Speaker 4: not really an expert.