1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. He there, 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio. And how the tech? 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Are you all right? This is going to be an 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: epic episode. I'm calling it now. And I got an 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: email from a listener named Nathan who was hoping I 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: could shed some light on something that he encountered online. 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: He was watching a video that was published by the 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: activist group Anonymous that directed viewers to something called Sovereign Doo. 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: That's DAO, and he said this felt a little out 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: of step with the group's philosophy. It felt like he 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: was being channeled toward some kind of multi level marketing 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: scheme or Ponzi scheme or something, and he wanted to 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: know more about it. And there's only so much I 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: can say about Sovereign now because I haven't joined it. 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: But Anonymous is or has put out a video. At 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: least someone in Anonymous has published a video that has 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: publicized a dow called Sovereign Dow. So this whole question 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: that Nathan has asked opens up multiple cans of worms. 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're going to cover a ton 21 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: of ground in order to get a full understanding of 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: what this all means. That's going to include a quick 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: review of what are not so quick review of what 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: Anonymous is and what they're all about. We'll also refresh 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: our minds on what a decentralized autonomous organization that is 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: a dow a d ao, what it is and what 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: they can do, which gets pretty broad. Will also quickly 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: explore the word sovereign to kind of get a grip 29 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,639 Speaker 1: on why Anonymous would want to promote something called sovereign dow. 30 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: And I think this will start to peel way the 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: layers and let us get an understanding as to what's 32 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: actually going on here, how the concept of the tao 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: in general or not the doo. I should just say 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: doo because there was once upon a time a doo 35 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: called v doo. And also what sovereignty is and why 36 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: this all actually does align with at least the perceived 37 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: motivations behind Anonymous. You can't ever say super firm, definitive 38 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: things about Anonymous because the organization itself defies that is, 39 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: it is too amorphous to ascribe specific descriptors and say 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: this universally applies. So let's tackle the hackers who are 41 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,279 Speaker 1: known for wearing Guy Fox masks both online and occasionally 42 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: in public, being called Anonymous. Now, before we get to that, 43 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to explain who Guy Fox was first, because 44 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: if Anonymous has adopted this image, this mask, why did 45 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: they do that, Who was Guy Fox, what did Guy 46 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: Fox do? And moreover, what other element in pop culture 47 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: adopted the guys of Guy Fox? Because that's really what's important. 48 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: But we need to understand the whole picture. Context is 49 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: always critical, I say so, we have to actually look 50 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: at the early seventeenth century, the early sixteen hundreds in England. 51 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: Guy Fox was a Catholic living in England under the 52 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: reign of King James, who was Protestant. Now James's predecessor, 53 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: Elizabeth the First She was also a Protestant Church of England, 54 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: which her father established in England in order to be 55 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: able to divorce a woman to marry somebody else. That's 56 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: a whole story we won't go into. But Elizabeth kind 57 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: of walked a middle line between Protestants and catholic She 58 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: did not firmly proclaim Protestantism and oppress the Catholics, at 59 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: least not to huge extent, especially not considering some of 60 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: her predecessors, and she wanted to avoid the chaos and 61 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: violence that would break out when one side would end 62 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: up persecuting the other. Her sister Mary did a really 63 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: great job of illustrating what happens if a hardline Catholic 64 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: decides to persecute the Protestants. Elizabeth wanted to avoid that 65 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: kind of strife within her kingdom. James, he was leaning 66 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: much harder into Protestantism than Elizabeth did, And for the 67 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: Catholics who were living in England, who were really hoping 68 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: to get another Catholic monarch, or at least someone who 69 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: had Catholic sympathies, this did not sit well, particularly among 70 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: the nobility who had seen some of their a lot 71 00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: of their wealth stripped away in the guise of religious strife, which, honestly, 72 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: when you look at the history of England, really comes 73 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: down to who thinks they can steal more of the 74 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: other person's stuff and get away with it than anything else. 75 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: That's not Maybe that's considered a controversial view, but honestly 76 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: it's the truth. Likes it largely comes down to I 77 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: want what that guy has. They happen to identify as Catholic. 78 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: I'm a Protestant. I'll use that as the excuse to 79 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: take all their stuff. Anyway, Guy Fox is a Catholic. 80 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: He opposes James the Protestant, and so he joins a 81 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: band of conspirators who ultimately have the goal to assassinate 82 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: King James, to commit regicide and replace him as regent, 83 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: hopefully with his daughter, who they saw as being more 84 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: pliable and perhaps more sympathetic to Catholics. The popular, but 85 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: probably apocryphal version of this story had the conspirators planning 86 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: to tunnel under Parliament with the intent to stack a 87 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: whole bunch of barrel of gunpowder underneath the House of Lords, 88 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: and then they would light up the barrels and blow 89 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: the English government into the afterlife. Do not pass go, 90 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: do not persecute Catholics. Now, in truth, they actually found 91 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: access to a chamber that was underneath the House of Lords, 92 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: sort of like a seller, and so they didn't actually 93 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: have to tunnel anywhere. They just had to get access 94 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: to this chamber and then make sure that nobody else 95 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: found what they were doing before they were able to 96 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: execute their plan, and they secretly began loading in a 97 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: bunch of barrels of gunpowder into this chamber. They hid 98 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: them under piles of coal and wood, and you know, 99 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: because it wasn't winner yet in England, they were hoping 100 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: that no one would go poking around in there until 101 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: Parliament was in session. They were essentially saying, like, this 102 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: is a storage of fuel that will probably be untouched 103 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: until we can get parliament. The problem was there was 104 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: also plague in England at the time, and any large 105 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: gathering of people was seen as a potential way of 106 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: spreading plague, which was you know true, and as a result, 107 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: Parliament wasn't entering into session as part of cautionary measures. 108 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: So we get up to late October. Parliament is finally 109 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: gearing up to go into session, having delayed several times 110 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: due to plague outbreaks, and the conspirators had regularly been 111 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: checking on these barrels that they had been storing in 112 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the cellar over time to make sure they were secure 113 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: and that no one had found them, and no one 114 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: had like the plan was on and they were getting 115 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: closer to the time of attack when Parliament would go 116 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: into session in early November of sixteen oh five, but 117 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: some of the conspirators were a little worried because not 118 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: everyone in Parliament was Protestant. There were some Catholics who 119 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: were also as members of the House of Lords, and 120 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: while it seemed like it was jolly good sport to 121 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: blow up Protestants, it was considered bad form to do 122 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: the same to their fellow Catholics. So someone among the 123 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: conspirators sent an anonymous letter to Lord Monteagal that essentially said, hey, 124 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: call out sick when Parliament opens up, because things are 125 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: gonna get spicy. I am paraphrasing here. So then Lord 126 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: Monteagle goes over to King Jimmy and he says, hey, 127 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: I got some potentially really bad news, And King Jimmy 128 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: commands that a security force sweeps the sellers beneath Parliament 129 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: to find out what the heck is going on. And 130 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: a security detail happened to come across the path of 131 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: one guy Fawks, who had been sent to check in 132 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: on the barrels in the cellar to make sure that 133 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: everything was fine, and he was caught in the middle 134 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: of the night on November fifth, sixteen oh five, and 135 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: he was put to the question that's a very polite 136 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: way of saying that the King's forces tortured the ever 137 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: loven pants off of him, probably literally, and over the 138 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: course of repeated torture sessions that got increasingly brutal, Fox 139 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: gave up his co conspirators and continued to endure really 140 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: brutal torture over the course of his confinement. In late 141 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: January sixteen oh six, so like a couple of months 142 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: after the planned attack, Fox and several of his co 143 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: conspirators were transported to Westminster Hall, forced to mount a scaffold, 144 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: pronounced guilty of high treason, and they were executed. That 145 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: is the polite way to describe what happened to them. 146 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: I will say that if you get into the details, 147 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: it goes beyond the level of cruelty. Then they were 148 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: also chop dup so that their body parts could be 149 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: sent around England to warn other would be traders about 150 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: what could happen if you plot against the crown. To 151 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: this day, November fifth is Guy Fox Day, and tradition 152 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: has people in England lighting bonfires to celebrate not the 153 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: plan to assassinate the king, which is often how it 154 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: gets portrayed, but rather to celebrate how the king escaped assassination. 155 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: And there's a little poem that goes with it. Remember 156 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: remember the fifth of November, Gunpowder, treason and plot, for 157 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: there is a reason why gunpowder and treason should never 158 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: be forgot. It changes a bit depending upon the interpretation. 159 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: You have to keep in mind that the language of 160 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: sixteen o six England was modern English but antiquated, so 161 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: slightly different from the way we would say it today. 162 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: But anyway, that was the whole point of Guy Fox 163 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: Day was to remind yourself, hey, we almost had regicide 164 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: in the Kingdom. It was stopped, and we also need 165 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: to remember what happens if you go against the king. 166 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: That's kind of the purpose of Guy Fox Day. Now 167 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: skip ahead a couple of centuries and get up to 168 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. You had writer Alan Moore and artists 169 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: David Lloyd and Tony Weir who create a comic strip 170 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: titled V for Vendetta, and the comic strips were later 171 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: collected into a graphic novel. Now, in this story, there's 172 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: an anarchist who simply goes by V and he commits 173 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: acts of violence in an attempt to bring down a 174 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: fascist government in England, and he does it while wearing 175 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: a Guy Fox mask. So it's really more this version 176 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: of Guy Fox that Anonymous would draw their iconic look from, 177 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: as opposed to the actual historic figure they were taking 178 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: it from, this pop culture comic book version. And again 179 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: v is not Guy Fox. He's adopted that because he 180 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: is an anarchist. He opposes not just fascism, he's really 181 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: not in favor of any kind of organized government at all. 182 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: He sees government as ultimately an institution that is bound 183 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: for corruption, like there's just no way to avoid it, 184 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:31,359 Speaker 1: and so he prefers anarchy to any kind of organized government. Moreover, 185 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: V for Vendetta is the story of someone who is 186 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: special in that he is willing to go to whatever 187 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 1: extreme is necessary to defeat an overreaching, unjust, unfair, corrupt 188 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: status quo. So he's not a superhero, right, He doesn't 189 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: have superpowers. He does display some pretty unbelievable skills and 190 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: physical abilities through the course of v FA Vendetta, but 191 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: he's ostensibly a regular old human being, and the message 192 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: seems to be anyone can change the world. And in 193 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: this graphic novel, the rhyme of remember remember the fifth 194 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: of November is not about remember how this traitor nearly 195 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: committed regiside. It's about remember how the normal person can 196 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: upend an entire government. So the message gets flipped with 197 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: V for vendetta than it did in actual history. Now, 198 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: the decentralized, loose confederation of activists, activists, anarchists, trolls and 199 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: others that would form Anonymous did not immediately adopt the 200 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: guy Fox mass that would come later in their history. Initially, 201 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: if you look at the very earliest kind of emergence 202 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: of anonymous, you have to look at the image based 203 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: message forum for Chan, and this used to be looked 204 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: at as one of the wilders on the wild West. 205 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: That was the web, right, Like the web was this 206 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: place where you had established brands, but you also had 207 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: these kind of pools of anarchy where all sorts of 208 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: shenanigans could happen. And four Chan at the time was 209 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: looked at as like kind of like Moss Eisley, the 210 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: hive of scum and villainy. These days, other forums like 211 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: eight chan and Kiwi Farms have said hold my beer 212 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: and really taken the mantle of home to the worst 213 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: of the worst on the web. But four chan used 214 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: to be the place. Now when we come back, I'll 215 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: talk about how anonymous first began to take shape on 216 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: four Chan. But first these messages okay, we're back. So 217 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: if you were to join four Chan, you could do 218 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: so without creating a handle, right, You didn't have to 219 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: create a handle that would identify you as someone who 220 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: is a participant. You could just join and you would 221 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: get the default user name anonymous. And so you had 222 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: these groups of like minded people trolls on four Chan 223 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: who began to coordinate their efforts to essentially cause grief 224 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: and frustration to other online communities, often to online communities 225 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: that were catering to younger users, because it just seemed 226 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: really funny to them to upset and upend these communities. 227 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: They say, Hey, look at these little kids who are 228 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: trying to have fun online. How about we mess with 229 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: them very much? Not a noble cause, right, is undeniable 230 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: that they were just out to cause trouble and to 231 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: make people upset for their own amusement. So they got 232 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: joy out of making life miserable for other people. A 233 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: quick note just in my own experience, I have found 234 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: that you actually can get way more joy out of 235 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: doing nice things for people than you get from causing 236 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: grief to folks. Although I get it, like there's some 237 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: people out there that just seem like they really need 238 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: to have some misery visited upon them because they are 239 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: causing misery to other people. Right, you might see someone 240 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: and say, this person is disproportionately making life terrible for 241 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: lots of people. I want to see some come upance. 242 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: I get that, but I also think that you know, 243 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: just anonymously trying to cause strife to people who you 244 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: don't know and have no connection to. I think that's 245 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: just lame. I would much prefer to see people do 246 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: nice things. It takes a little more effort, but I 247 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: think it has way more payoff. Anyway, that's getting sidetracked. Okay. 248 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: From two thousand and three to around two thousand and 249 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: six or so, these trolls, which began to collectively identify 250 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: themselves as anonymous because again that's the default anonymous user 251 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: name on four Chan, they started to harass various online 252 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: communities just for fun. Some of these communities were also trollish, 253 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: so in some cases you had trolls attacking other trolls. 254 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: This escalated by two thousand and six to targeting specific 255 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: people rather than an online community. So in other words, 256 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: you might target an actual individual who you think deserves 257 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: to be taken down a peg for whatever reason. So 258 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: typically these people were fairly high profile, They had some 259 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: sort of platform from which they espoused their views, and 260 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: they had come to offend this group of trolls on 261 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: four Chan through saying those views. In some cases, these 262 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: were like far right commentators and media, and they became 263 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: prime targets. But it wasn't just them really, anyone one 264 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: who was seen as being you know, hypocritical or insincere, 265 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: anything like that. If they seem like they were putting 266 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: up a front that hidden motives, they can become a 267 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: target too. Now Anonymous went after them in an effort 268 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: to really humble these folks, but it was mostly again 269 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: for the lulls. It wasn't like a crusade to right wrongs. 270 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: It was more about this person deserves some frustration in 271 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: their life or worse, so we're gonna do it and 272 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna laugh about it. Now, you might wonder how 273 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: did this group transition from being this loose collective of 274 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: trolls to turn into a decentralized activist group. A big 275 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: part of that transition actually came from outside the group itself. 276 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: It came due to mainstream media, which kind of just 277 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: got the whole thing wrong. Mainstream media ended up having 278 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: the wrong interpretation of what Anonymous was, and that in 279 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: turn kind of shaped Anonymous. So there was like a 280 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: broadcast in Los Angeles that was on Fox Television. They 281 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: reported about Anonymous and suggested that Anonymous was in fact 282 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: a domestic terrorist group. Now keep in mind, Anonymous had 283 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: been targeting some far right media personalities at this point, 284 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: so perhaps that was part of it. Because Fox often 285 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, at least leans to that side. 286 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: In some markets, it doesn't lean, it absolutely lays down 287 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: on the far right side. So they were saying that 288 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Anonymous were domestic terrorists capable of great acts of violence. 289 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: They even included in their broadcast video footage of a 290 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: van exploding. Never Mind, this had no connection to Anonymous, Like, 291 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: Anonymous had not done any kind of acts of violence. 292 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: They were rassing people, but they didn't bomb cars or anything. 293 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: So this was like just it was so absurd. It 294 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: had no connection to the actual group, but the group 295 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: was being portrayed as if they were this incredibly sinister, 296 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: dangerous group of individuals, which, honestly, if you are not 297 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: identified as being part of that group. But you get 298 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: the benefit of feeling like people are looking at you 299 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: and thinking you're important and dangerous. That can really boost 300 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: your ego quite a bit, right, Like it feels good 301 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: to be looked at and thought of as a badass. 302 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: That just it's like an ego boost to that the 303 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: world thought that Anonymous was dangerous, at least the Fox 304 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: broadcast station in Los Angeles did, anyway, and that kind 305 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: of made them feel like they were important. There was 306 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: also the case of a Canadian Security Intelligence Service agent 307 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: who went to a guy named Aubrey call who was 308 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: involved in Anonymous and tapped him as joining a task 309 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: force designed to infiltrate and disrupt online terrorist groups. But 310 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: Caddle was like, I just mess with people to make 311 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: them angry. I don't like this is like James Bond 312 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: level stuff, and I am not James Bond. But again, 313 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: it showed that the outside world was looking at Anonymous 314 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: as being way more powerful and capable than they actually were, 315 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: and it made people who were part of Anonymous feel 316 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: important and more people wanted to join because they wanted 317 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: to feel like they were part of this power group. 318 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: And then we get to Tom Cruise. And you know, 319 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: I think without Tom Cruise, we wouldn't have the Anonymous 320 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: that we have today. In fact, the group Anonymous might 321 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: not even exist without Tom Cruise. This is not hyperbole. 322 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: So by early two thousand and eight, Anonymous was still 323 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: mostly a group of folks who like to harass people, 324 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: and again, mostly they were doing this online, and mostly 325 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: the people they were harassing were people they felt deserved 326 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: to be harassed, although the criteria for what made someone 327 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: deserving varied depending upon who in the group was doing it. 328 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: And Tom Cruise would change things. So on January fourteenth, 329 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, someone published a video of Tom 330 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: Cruise talking about Scientology and his participation in the Church 331 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: of Scientology. Now, this episode's already going to be a 332 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: long one, which means I am not going to dive 333 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: into the rat's nest that is Scientology. I will say 334 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: it is an organization that's registered to be a religious organization, 335 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: which means that they enjoy tax exempt status in the 336 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: United States. It's an organization that has a very long 337 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: history of allegations made against it and its leadership that 338 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: range from stuff like the organization encouraging members to surrender 339 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: more and more of their own personal wealth to the church, 340 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: essentially saying that the church siphons money out of its 341 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: members to super scary allegations like the church using the 342 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: US legal system to intimidate or even bankrupt people who 343 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: were identified as threats to the church itself, including people 344 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: who were just trying to leave the organization. It's got 345 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: a really bad reputation, which is putting it lightly. Anyway, 346 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: Tom Cruz's interview did not make him look very good, 347 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: and it made the church look even worse. Cruz was 348 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: not trying to bring down the Church of Scientology, far 349 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: from it. He was an eager participant. However, his descriptions 350 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: and demeanor in this video we're seen as harmful to 351 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: the image of the Church of Scientology, and so the 352 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: church sent YouTube a copyright violation claim that prompted YouTube 353 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: to remove the video, and that is where anonymous would 354 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: jump in. So people with an anonymous saw Scientology's actions 355 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: as leveraging a company's policies, in this case YouTube, in 356 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: order to commit censorship to remove information from the Internet, 357 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: which just kind of goes against the whole ethos of 358 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: the Internet and the Web in general. Like you've probably 359 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: heard like once it goes up on the Internet, that's it. 360 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: It's there, Like whether you try and take down the 361 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: original one or not, it's up there. People have shared it, 362 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: people have cloned it. Whatever. Now they were thinking that 363 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology was abusing YouTube's policies in an 364 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: attempt to hide information that was not very flattering to 365 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: the church from the general public. Then there were all 366 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: the other alleged misdeeds that the church was said to 367 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: have committed. So on top of that, there's everything else. 368 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, 369 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: search the term fair Game and Scientology and you'll see 370 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, a tip of the iceberg really 371 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: of what I'm talking about. So Anonymous thought of Scientology 372 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: as being an organization that was perfect to take down 373 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: a few pegs, like this was an organization that clearly 374 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: had a lot of power and influence, and in the 375 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: opinion of those an Anonymous should not have those things. 376 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: So they wanted to hold an operation. That's what a 377 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: lot of projects within Anonymous end up being called an operation. 378 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: This one was actually called Project Channology, in which Anonymous 379 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: organized protests against the church in the real world. People 380 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: showed up at locations connected to the Church of Scientology, 381 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: many of them wearing guy Fox masks. And meanwhile, the 382 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: online part of Anonymous was using all sorts of tactics 383 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: to disrupt Scientology's Internet based operations. So they were doing 384 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: things they were actually pretty simple in the grand scheme 385 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: of things like denial of service attacks. These are not 386 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: sophisticated online attacks, but they can be effective. Essentially, what 387 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: you're doing is you're targeting a web server and you 388 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: are sending an enormous amount of traffic to that web 389 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: server in order to overwhelm it so that it cannot 390 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: respond to legitimate messages. So like you could target the 391 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: web server that hosts the Church of Scientology's web page, 392 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: and because you have overwhelmed that server, anyone trying to 393 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: go to the Church of Scientology's webpage is going to 394 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: get an error message. Again, this is not a very 395 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: sophisticated attack. There are actually a lot of companies out 396 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: there that you can and work with that specifically look 397 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: for that kind of attack so that they can prevent 398 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: it from affecting your web servers. So it's not something 399 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 1: that typically gets used a ton against high profile targets. 400 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: Because a lot of high profile targets have moved to 401 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: adopt these measures to protect themselves against that kind of thing. 402 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: But these actions marked a real change for Anonymous. Rather 403 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: than harassing folks and communities just for the lulls, the 404 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: group began to use its base of skills and decentralized 405 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: membership and desire to push back against what they saw 406 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: as overreaching authority to create change both in the real 407 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: and in the online world. The group would target large 408 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: financial institutions, which were seen as foundations of power and 409 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: influence that have a disproportionate amount of control over our lives. 410 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: They would target government organizations that they felt were corrupt 411 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: or that were infringing upon people's freedoms, including issues like 412 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: agencies like the NSA that were found to conduct espionage 413 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: on American citizens. They supported social movements like the Arab 414 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: Spring and Black Lives Matter. They took aim at things 415 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: like child pornography rings to bring those down. They continue 416 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 1: to provide support to Ukraine in its war against Russia. 417 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: They've used their skills to disrupt Russia's online operations to 418 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: varying degrees of success. But at the heart of things, 419 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: Anonymous is still a decentralized organization. In fact, to call 420 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: it an organization is a bit of a stretch. Anonymous 421 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: consists of lots of people. How many is impossible to say. 422 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: There's no official membership for obvious reasons. If you want 423 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: to be Anonymous, you can't have one, And within the 424 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: group there are a variety of opinions and political philosophies 425 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: and value. So not everything attributed to Anonymous is necessarily 426 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: the result of Anonymous, or at least not of the 427 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: overall collection of people who identify as being part of Anonymous. 428 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: In some cases, it's a splinter group of folks who 429 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: have a common goal, but it's not necessarily a goal 430 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: that's supported by the overall Anonymous community, and they go 431 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: out and do their own operations. Sometimes the media connects 432 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: those operations with Anonymous overall, and on rare occasions, the 433 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: overall organization might even distance itself from some of those activities. Okay, 434 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: we're going to continue talking about Anonymous and then Dows, 435 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: but first let's take another quick break. Okay, we're back. 436 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: So I described earlier how Anonymous works generally, and it's 437 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: mostly through consensus and brainstorm. People within the community start 438 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: to toss back and forth some ideas, including who they 439 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: think is at fault for perhaps oppressing others, and then 440 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: potential ways to address that oppression. Sometimes a small group 441 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: of folks within Anonymous will adopt a cause and gain 442 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: more support from other members as things evolve and it 443 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: becomes the overall group's objective. Sometimes a person, government agency, 444 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: or a company will behave in a way that is 445 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: so counter to anonymous as core values of individual freedom 446 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: and a desire to wrest control away from institutions that 447 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: it really won't take a lot of convincing. The whole 448 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: group will more or less beyond the same page, and 449 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: what needs to happen is consensus on what to do 450 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: about it. So that is Anonymous. Now let's talk about 451 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: decentralized autonomous organizations or doos d aos. This is a 452 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: continuation on our recent episode about Web three and the 453 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: hype cycle which published last week, so it kind of 454 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: builds on that as well. Now, what the heck is 455 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: a decentralized autonomous organization the DAO or DOO. Well, at 456 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: a very high level, it is an organization made up 457 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: of people who share some common goal. Now, the specifics 458 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: of how to achieve that goal, or what conditions need 459 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: to exist in order for each member to consider the 460 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: goal to have been achieved in the first place. That 461 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: can be different from person to person, and it can 462 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: require a consensus among the group to decide on particulars, 463 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: but generally speaking, the group has the same outcome in mind. 464 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: So a DAO can kind of act like a company, 465 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: or it can act like a charitable organization or a 466 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: community action group. It can have a single purpose. For example, 467 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: one DOO actually had the express purpose of purchasing an 468 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: original copy of an historic document, which we will get 469 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: to in a bit, Or it could have a more 470 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: general purpose, like it exists for the betterment of a 471 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: specific community or maybe the global community, and in the 472 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: process of doing that it could pursue many smaller but 473 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: related goals. However, a DOW is owned and operated by 474 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: the members of that organization, So instead of having a 475 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: single hierarchical leader or even a board of directors who 476 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: ultimately are allowed to approve or deny requests for specific 477 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: business decisions, the overall group gets to vote on these things. 478 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: So instead of having one person decide, well, our goal 479 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: is X, so we're going to do why and that 480 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: will achieve our goal. The whole groups to decide if 481 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: why is the right thing to do or may mean 482 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: there should be some other method to achieve that goal. 483 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: And in fact, with enough support, the organization can actually 484 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: choose to change the goal, so it's not X at all, 485 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: it's something else. They could do that with enough support 486 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: and with a successful vote. Now, the way this thing 487 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: works is through voting, but it's not necessarily a case 488 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: where every member has a single vote. No, that's not 489 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: necessarily the case. It can work to be more like 490 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: shareholders in a publicly traded company. So the more shares 491 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: of the company you own, the more votes you have. 492 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: If you own a high enough percentage of the shares 493 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: that exist, effectively you can actually dictate the direction of 494 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: the company right if you were to own that much. 495 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: Even if all the other shareholders collectively disagreed with you, 496 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: tough for them, because if you hold enough votes to 497 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: decide what you say goes, then that's it. This is 498 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: actually one of the challenges that dows can face, but 499 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: will touch on that leader as well. So basically, a 500 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: DOW is a way for a group of people to 501 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: identify and pursue a common goal through a decentralized democratic process, 502 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: and in that way, I think you could probably see 503 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: how Anonymous would want to adopt a DOW. Anonymous is 504 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: a decentralized organization of people who share some common values 505 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: and beliefs and goals, but not everyone shares every specific 506 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: goal with everyone else. There's a lot of then diagram 507 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: stuff going on. So you've got some groups with an 508 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: anonymous who have an overlap with the overall groups values 509 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: and beliefs, but there's also some outliers. Then you have 510 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: other subgroups that maybe just barely tap into the same 511 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: value system that the overall group of anonymous has, but 512 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: they're all part of Anonymous, at least as far as 513 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: being part of Anonymous goes. Okay, So now let's talk 514 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,479 Speaker 1: about how a DOW actually works, because so far we've 515 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: just been looking at really a high level approach. A 516 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: DOW is built on top of the blockchain, and we're 517 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: usually talking about the Ethereum blockchain here, and so this 518 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: is the blockchain is the thing that cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin 519 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: and ether depend upon. In fact, Bitcoin introduced the concept 520 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: of the blockchain a couple of decades ago at this point, 521 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: or almost a couple of decades ago. A blockchain is 522 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: essentially a record of transactions, and they're grouped into blocks 523 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: that have been verified by the overall community that makes 524 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: up the system, and then each block is added sequentially 525 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: to a chain of earlier blocks of transactions. In the 526 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: case of bitcoin, those transactions are stuff like actual financial transactions, 527 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: but they can pretty much be anything that involves data 528 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 1: points that track chronologically and that can transition in state 529 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: in some way. One other important factor about the blockchain 530 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: is that its structure makes it very difficult to change 531 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: earlier points of data within the chain, So each block's 532 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: identity depends in part on all the blocks that came 533 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: before it, and everyone in the system who is part 534 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: of this blockchain system. Everyone can view the blockchain. It 535 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: becomes a common ledger, a publicly shared ledger that everyone 536 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: is able to see. And since everyone's able to see it, 537 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: they can see if someone tries to mess with it. 538 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: So if someone were to try and go back and 539 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: change a data point that happened earlier on in this 540 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: chain of blocks of data, that change would be reflected 541 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: in that block's identity, but that would also affect every 542 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: single block that came after it, so let's say that 543 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: your blockchain is twenty blocks long and someone try to 544 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: change the data that was in block fifteen. Well, from 545 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: block fifteen to block twenty, that change perpetuates down the chain. 546 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: Everyone connected to the system would see that something hinky 547 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: was going on. They could clamp down and stop it 548 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: reverse it. By the way, there are some issues with 549 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: this system. For example, if the overall organization, whether it's 550 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency community like bitcoin miners or a dow if 551 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: they cannot come to consensus on the direction of the blockchain, 552 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 1: you can have a fork. So, for simplicity's sake, let's 553 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: say that half of this blockchain community thinks that they 554 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: need to go in one direction, like this happened with 555 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: In fact, it's happened with like all the major cryptocurrencies, 556 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: but this did happen with Bitcoin. Let's say that like 557 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: half of the community thinks, we want to implement some 558 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: improvements to blockchain and bitcoin, but it's going to necessitate 559 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: that you download new software to be able to interact 560 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: with the blockchain system in order to adopt this motion. 561 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: But let's say the other half of the community is like, no, 562 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: I kind of like the way it's working now. I 563 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 1: don't want to adopt these new approaches and I want 564 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: it to stay the same. And you get to a 565 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: point where half the group chooses to update their software 566 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: to adopt this new direction, the other half doesn't. You 567 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: have two different versions of bitcoin at that point, right, 568 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: You've got the updated version and you have the original version. Eventually, 569 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: what you have there is a fork. Both versions continue 570 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,919 Speaker 1: to build upon the original blockchain, but they branch off 571 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: into different directions because of this change in the community, 572 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: this disagreement within the community. Sometimes both of these branches 573 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: can continue and become healthy and stay solvent the entire time. 574 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes one will collapse, maybe both collapse. It can happen. 575 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: That's a risk, and arguably you could say this is 576 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: a risk with any organization. Right, you can get to 577 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,760 Speaker 1: a point where within the organization there's a disagreement about 578 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: how to do stuff, and that disagreement might lead to 579 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: the point where part of the organization splits off to 580 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: become its own thing. Happens all the time, well, the 581 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: same thing is true with blockchain. With cryptocurrencies, some exchanges 582 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: will actually suspend trading in the wake of a hard 583 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: fork or even a soft fork in an effort to 584 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:40,240 Speaker 1: mitigate risk and volatility, because the value of these cryptocurrencies 585 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: can change even more dramatically than they already do in 586 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: the wake of a fork. Those suspensions usually last long 587 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: enough for the dust to settle before trading commences again. 588 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: But if one of the forks seems particularly unstable, the 589 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: exchanges might just ignore that one and only accept the 590 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: other fork. And it may be that no matter how 591 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: many people believe passionately that they've done the right thing, 592 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: their efforts will be in vain. Okay, back to DOW. Now, 593 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: I haven't really touched on the autonomous part of decentralized 594 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 1: autonomous organization. A DOW runs by using rules called smart 595 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: contracts to guide specific actions in pursuit of a larger goal. 596 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: So the smart contracts essentially take action when certain criteria 597 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: are met. You can think of it as, let's say 598 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: that you got like a long term goal, and you 599 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: break down that goal into steps, the steps you need 600 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: to take in order to achieve your goal. The smart 601 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: contracts represent the action points of those steps, and if 602 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: you can think of them in very simple programming terms, 603 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: you can think of a smart contract as being kind 604 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: of an if then statement like Let's say a very 605 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: simple one is that you join a dow that's going 606 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: to be investing in bitcoin ultimately and maybe the if 607 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 1: then stay and as if the value of bitcoin drops 608 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: below twenty thousand US dollars per bitcoin, buy x dollars 609 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 1: value in bitcoin. Then if the value bitcoin is above 610 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars, the smart contract doesn't take any action. 611 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: But if the value drops bid leath twenty thousand, the 612 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: smart contract comes into play and the doll starts to 613 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,760 Speaker 1: buy a bitcoin, with other smart contracts deciding when it stops. 614 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,439 Speaker 1: Like there could be another if then, like if the 615 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: amount in the doll's treasury drops below x amount of dollars, 616 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: stop all purchasing activities. This is an extremely basic, oversimplified example, 617 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: mind you, but it's one that I thought could be helpful. 618 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,720 Speaker 1: So that's the autonomous part. You have these smart contracts 619 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: that are doing the work so that humans don't have 620 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: to assuming that the conditions are met for the smart 621 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 1: contract to actually come to play. Otherwise remains dormant and 622 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: all the while it's trying to achieve this shared goal. Now, 623 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: the humans as the part of the DOO, they collectively 624 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: decide what the smart contracts do. So. It might be 625 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: that a DOO exists for a while and someone in 626 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,479 Speaker 1: the organization says, you know, this is not the most 627 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: effective way we could do this. These smart contracts are clumsy. 628 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: They are not achieving our goal efficiently. Let's do it 629 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: this other way, where we'll rework the smart contracts so 630 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 1: they work under these new conditions. Well, then the group 631 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: would have to decide and come to a consensus about 632 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: whether or not to adopt or reject that proposal, and 633 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: the DOW would just keep on behaving autonomously. It would change, however, 634 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: if the consensus agreed on the change, and then people 635 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 1: implement a new smart contracts and overhauled the DOO, at 636 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: which point it would now behave under these new rules. 637 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: Now for all of this to work, there's got to 638 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: be money involved, right, Like this stuff like, it doesn't 639 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: matter what your doll is are, what your goals are, 640 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: or anything like that if there's no money behind it, 641 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 1: because nothing gets done. So your typical doll receives outside investment. 642 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: You typically are seeking capitalists to invest into the DOO, 643 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: and then the members of the doll also have to 644 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: hand over their cold hard cash in return for tokens 645 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,760 Speaker 1: that cold hard cash, maybe in the form of cryptocurrencies 646 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: like ether, but you do this to purchase tokens that 647 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: represents membership and voting power within the organization. So these 648 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: are digital tokens. They're similar to cryptocurrency, except instead of 649 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,879 Speaker 1: behaving like a currency, and don't get me started, because 650 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,279 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency doesn't always behave like a currency. In fact, many 651 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 1: times it doesn't, but that's a separate topic. They behave 652 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: like a share in the overall organization, and you can 653 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,879 Speaker 1: own more than one token. You can own as many 654 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: tokens as you want to buy that the organization will 655 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: meant anyway. And these collected funds that people have poured 656 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 1: into the TAO, they become the treasury for this organization. 657 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,439 Speaker 1: The members get to vote on how the organization will 658 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: direct the money in the treasury to be spent in 659 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: its effort to achieve whatever the goals of the organization 660 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: happened to be. All right, let's talk about a couple 661 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: of specific doos for a moment to understand some more 662 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: issues with this approach. Way back in April twenty sixteen, 663 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: a group of investors got together. They pulled a huge 664 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: amount of money into an organization that they called the Tao. 665 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: It was meant to serve as a venture capital fund, 666 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: so in many ways, the idea here was to give 667 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: smaller investors the chance to take part in bigger investment opportunities, 668 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: the kind that you would normally see huge VC firms 669 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: participate in when funding a startup, for example. Unfortunately, the 670 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 1: group hit a major snag. So the Dow's token also 671 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: called DOO. Dao was listed on cryptocurrency exchanges and it 672 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 1: was built on top of the Ethereum blockchain. But the 673 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: Dow's security had a really serious vulnerability in it, and 674 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: in June of twenty sixteen, just a couple of months 675 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: after it got started, someone stole oh about a third 676 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 1: of the money in the organization's treasury. That was around 677 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars worth of Ether currency that was stolen 678 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: from the DOO and the stolen funds were moved into 679 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: a different Ethereum account. However, thankfully, the dow had some 680 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: smart contracts that put some some limitations on this. The 681 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: money had a twenty eight day holding period on it, 682 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: so the people who who conducted this theft were not 683 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: able to access the money and then withdraw it, So 684 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: there was a ticking clock that was going where there 685 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: was this twenty eight day hold on the money in 686 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 1: this account, and then the ethereum community had to decide 687 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,840 Speaker 1: want to do about it, and some wanted to reverse 688 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: the transaction and return the funds to the DOW and 689 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: its investors because they had been stolen from even though 690 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: some would say, well, it was due to the fact 691 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: that they had poor security measures in place, Others said, yeah, 692 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,320 Speaker 1: but that you know, you can't blame them for a theft. 693 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: A theft is an action taken by someone else, right, 694 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: It's not like they misplaced the money, It's that someone 695 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: purposefully redirected money. So there was some people who said, 696 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: let's reverse that transaction, but that means we're gonna have 697 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: to go back in the chain and change that, and 698 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: as we've said, that means changes all the way forward 699 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: down the chain from that point, and that can cause 700 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,359 Speaker 1: a headache for anyone else who's done transactions on this chain. 701 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: The people are saying, no, no, no, no no, no no no. 702 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: I don't want that to mess with everything else. We 703 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: don't want to upset the whole apple cart because of 704 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: this one instance. The theft was awful it technically didn't 705 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: violate the rules because the rules were constructed poorly, but 706 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,720 Speaker 1: it's clearly an awful thing. But we don't want everything 707 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,879 Speaker 1: else to suffer because of this one incident, so we 708 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: have to keep it going. Ultimately, Ethereum had a hard fork. 709 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: The original version of Ethereum continued as Ethereum Classic, and 710 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,839 Speaker 1: the new version, which returned the funds to the TAO, 711 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: became Ethereum Blockchain. There are other examples of DOO as well, 712 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 1: including Constitution Dow, which formed to purchase a copy of 713 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: the US Constitution. I referenced that earlier in this episode, 714 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 1: and that's an interesting story too, and I have a 715 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: little more to say about that, but we're getting super long, 716 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: so we're going to take another quick break. When we 717 00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: come back, I will wrap all this up. Okay, I 718 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: know it's an epic episode. I don't usually have that 719 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: many breaks in one, but this one I felt was 720 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: a great question and it was really important. So we're 721 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: getting back to Constitution Dow. We get this DOO where 722 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: you have a group of investors who collectively their goal 723 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: is to purchase an original copy of the United States 724 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: Constitution that was going on auction at Sotheby's. Members of 725 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: the TAO invested heavily into this organization. I want to 726 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,440 Speaker 1: say they raised nearly fifty million dollars. However, not all 727 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 1: of that money would be available for bidding on the 728 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: copy of the Constitution for reasons I'll get into in 729 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: a second. Ultimately, the DOAO did not have the highest bid. 730 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: The highest bid was for more than forty three million 731 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: dollars and the Constitution dow law this auction. Now, again, 732 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: the only purpose for the existence of this dow was 733 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:10,879 Speaker 1: to purchase that copy. So once the auction was over, 734 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: the DOW had no purpose anymore and it was going 735 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: to just disband. So you had all these people who 736 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,440 Speaker 1: had poured money into it. They wanted to get their 737 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: money back because the thing that they wanted to have 738 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: happened did not happen. Here's where they started to run 739 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 1: into problems, and it is an issue with dows that 740 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 1: are built on top of blockchain. For blockchain transactions to happen, 741 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,320 Speaker 1: you have to cover the costs of the computational power 742 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 1: needed to process the transactions in question. As part of that, 743 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,040 Speaker 1: there is a transaction fee for every transaction you make. 744 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,640 Speaker 1: It's not that different from transaction fees you encounter when 745 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 1: you use things like credit cards. Often these transaction fees 746 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: are invisible to the consumer. The vendor is the one 747 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: who has to handle it. That's why you you go 748 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,439 Speaker 1: to some stores you might see a sign that says 749 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,280 Speaker 1: no credit card transactions for below a certain amount of money. 750 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,120 Speaker 1: It's because there are transaction fees which cut into the 751 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 1: money that the vendor gets in that actual transaction right well. 752 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,440 Speaker 1: With cryptocurrency, the transaction fees also known as gas fees, 753 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 1: to cover the cost of the computational resources needed to 754 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: handle these transactions. They can be significant, especially for proof 755 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:35,240 Speaker 1: of work based cryptocurrencies, which Ether was at this point. 756 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: Ethereum has since moved to a proof of stake, which 757 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 1: is a different approach to cryptocurrency than proof of work. 758 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: The proof of work is what Ethereum worked on at 759 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,359 Speaker 1: the time that this happened. It's also the way bitcoin works. 760 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,839 Speaker 1: This is where you have bitcoin or cryptocurrency mining operations 761 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,439 Speaker 1: that are competing against each other to verify a block 762 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: of transactions. In return, you get awarded a certain number 763 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,879 Speaker 1: of crypto coins, so that is a gas fee. The 764 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 1: problem is the people who engaged in constitution DAO. The 765 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,760 Speaker 1: people who invested into it, they were investing relatively small 766 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,359 Speaker 1: amounts of money. I mean like like sometimes like one 767 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,360 Speaker 1: hundred bucks, two hundred bucks, something like that, which is 768 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,279 Speaker 1: you know, enough for It's considered a large amount of 769 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,400 Speaker 1: money for a lot of people, but in the grand 770 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,839 Speaker 1: scheme of investments, it's tiny, right. We often talk about 771 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,280 Speaker 1: investors in the tech space who are working on the millions, 772 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,720 Speaker 1: if not billions of dollars scale, But this was something 773 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: that was positioned as a way for the average person 774 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:41,040 Speaker 1: to be involved in this particular d AO. So you 775 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: had people who are putting in one hundred or two 776 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 1: hundred bucks. The problem is the gas fees at the time, 777 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,560 Speaker 1: we're ranging at around seventy dollars per transaction. That means 778 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,040 Speaker 1: seventy dollars of your transaction of depositing money into the 779 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,560 Speaker 1: doll is taken out as gas fees, and seventy dollars 780 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: of the transaction has taken out when you withdraw. If 781 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,640 Speaker 1: you put in less than one hundred and forty bucks, 782 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,880 Speaker 1: it meant that the transaction fees were the same amount 783 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: or greater than the money you put in, which means 784 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,320 Speaker 1: you didn't get anything out all that money was gone. 785 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,839 Speaker 1: It got burned away in gas fees. This is an 786 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:21,359 Speaker 1: issue with the blockchain based organizations. Now the gas fees 787 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: are not always that exorbitant. It's not like we're still 788 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 1: seeing these crazy fees for all transactions. But it does 789 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: mean that there is risk associated with DAOs. Even if 790 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,120 Speaker 1: you have a DO where you're allowed to withdraw your 791 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: money at any time, you're not going to get the 792 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,400 Speaker 1: same amount of money back as you put in because 793 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,920 Speaker 1: they're going to be these transaction fees that will be 794 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 1: deducted from those transactions. So you know, if if the 795 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,680 Speaker 1: loss is small, it might be trivial, you might not care. 796 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: But in this particular case with constitution now it was 797 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 1: one of those things that left a bad taste in 798 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people's mouths and made them feel like 799 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: the DOO approach has some real drawbacks. But all that 800 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: being said, we can start to understand why anonymous would 801 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,960 Speaker 1: embrace a DOW because you can participate in a DOO anonymously. 802 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: It's one of the big benefits of blockchain. It's one 803 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:26,880 Speaker 1: of the foundational concepts of decentralized finance, is this anonymity 804 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,000 Speaker 1: where you are allowed to make these transactions without them 805 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,000 Speaker 1: being tied to your personal identity. So instead of being 806 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: something that is forever associated with you, like every purchase 807 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: on Amazon that you make is associated with you, right, 808 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:48,720 Speaker 1: and that history of transactions ends up being a portrait 809 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,040 Speaker 1: of who you are as a person that has value. Well, 810 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 1: these decentralized approaches have anonymity baked into them, so that 811 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,760 Speaker 1: you can purchase whatever you want, it's never tagged with you. 812 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,400 Speaker 1: You can live your life without everyone knowing what it 813 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: is you like or don't like. So that whole market 814 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,600 Speaker 1: of dealing with your information kind of disappears if you're 815 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,319 Speaker 1: doing everything through blockchain, because you can do it through 816 00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:25,320 Speaker 1: this anonymous approach. Obviously that falls right into anonymous's ethos, 817 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: so you understand where that fits with the anonymous approach. Also, 818 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,280 Speaker 1: you participate in the governance of the group, right, because 819 00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,800 Speaker 1: you have these tokens that represent your membership, that represents 820 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: your voting power, So you can vote for or against 821 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:48,800 Speaker 1: measures proposals within the TAO that are designed to achieve 822 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,720 Speaker 1: certain goals or complete certain tasks. You can be an 823 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,000 Speaker 1: active participant in that, and that way you can have 824 00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,400 Speaker 1: this group of people who collectively have some simil allure 825 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 1: beliefs and values, but not necessarily identical ones, and you 826 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,839 Speaker 1: can hash out what the group will and will not do. 827 00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: So instead of having like a splinter group go off 828 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 1: and do something and then the whole of that operation 829 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,960 Speaker 1: gets associated with Anonymous, when the whole group may not 830 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,440 Speaker 1: have approved of it, you now have a system where 831 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: ideas can be approved or rejected collectively. So that obviously 832 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:37,279 Speaker 1: folds in with Anonymous's ethos as well, and I can 833 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,440 Speaker 1: understand that. Now, let's talk about the sovereign part of 834 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,000 Speaker 1: the name of sovereign Dow. Remember that's the name of 835 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 1: the dow that Anonymous's video was pointing people to. Sovereignty 836 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:53,760 Speaker 1: relates to authority, So it's who holds authority over an entity, 837 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:58,239 Speaker 1: whether that's an individual, an organization, a nation. So a 838 00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:03,239 Speaker 1: sovereign nation has ultimate authority over its governance, it has 839 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: authority over its borders. A country that invades a different country, 840 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,640 Speaker 1: like Russia invading Ukraine violates the other nation's sovereignty. Russia 841 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,960 Speaker 1: violated Ukraine's sovereignty by invading it and claiming that it 842 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:24,480 Speaker 1: had ownership over territories that internationally are thought to belong 843 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,960 Speaker 1: to Ukraine. Sovereignty is something that has to be recognized 844 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,680 Speaker 1: both within and outside of the entity. It's not enough 845 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,719 Speaker 1: for you to declare yourself sovereign. Others have to recognize 846 00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 1: you as sovereign as well, so it becomes a tricky 847 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:43,600 Speaker 1: thing now. Within blockchain, sovereignty also means partly that the 848 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:49,080 Speaker 1: organization is independent. It's also resistant to outside interference, so 849 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,160 Speaker 1: it is able to act on its interests without the 850 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:59,800 Speaker 1: interference of say, regulators or government authorities. Also, sovereignty partly 851 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,719 Speaker 1: first to the fact that the individual members of the 852 00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:08,000 Speaker 1: DAO have the sovereignty to engage in transactions with any 853 00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,799 Speaker 1: other members and nothing can stop that. So let's say 854 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,320 Speaker 1: that you and I are both connected to the Ethereum blockchain. 855 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,200 Speaker 1: I could send you ether plus the gas fees needed 856 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,560 Speaker 1: to cover the transaction, and you could accept the ether, 857 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,160 Speaker 1: and no one else in the system would be able 858 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:26,840 Speaker 1: to stop and say hang on, you can't do that. 859 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,120 Speaker 1: That also plays into the anonymous ethoughts, So you start 860 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:37,479 Speaker 1: to see where this approach to organization and governance within 861 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:42,600 Speaker 1: an organization falls in line with the goals of anonymous. 862 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,640 Speaker 1: There are still problems you have to address. You have 863 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:51,160 Speaker 1: to address how do you handle voting. If someone accumulates 864 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:56,280 Speaker 1: enough tokens, could they become essentially a bully or banned 865 00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,240 Speaker 1: with a few others who also have a lot of tokens, 866 00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,400 Speaker 1: and together they become bullies who dictate the moves of 867 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,920 Speaker 1: the organization at the expense of what everyone else wants. 868 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,480 Speaker 1: You have to address that. This can be addressed by 869 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,240 Speaker 1: the way, but it has to be built into the system. 870 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:15,120 Speaker 1: It can't just be left up chance. Another potential issue 871 00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,160 Speaker 1: is if you have lots and lots of members, but 872 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,040 Speaker 1: a lot of them are inactive. If they're inactive, then 873 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: they're not voting. And if you require a certain percentage 874 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 1: of votes in order to pass particular measures, you may 875 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,040 Speaker 1: never be able to achieve that percentage because of the 876 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:36,080 Speaker 1: number of inactive accounts that are connected to the system. 877 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,960 Speaker 1: That's also something you can work around, but it's another 878 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: inherent danger with dows. So again, the DOW as a 879 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,440 Speaker 1: concept I think is interesting. I don't think it's a 880 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 1: cure all solution. It requires a lot of careful thought 881 00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:00,240 Speaker 1: and architecture to make sure that it actually does the 882 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,040 Speaker 1: thing it purports to do, and it doesn't just become 883 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,160 Speaker 1: a way for a single entity or a small group 884 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,080 Speaker 1: to completely take over control of something that's meant to 885 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,560 Speaker 1: be a democratic and decentralized approach. One of the big 886 00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,880 Speaker 1: dangers of doos, by the way, is if they are 887 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,920 Speaker 1: not constructed properly, you could potentially enter into a situation where, 888 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:29,080 Speaker 1: let's say you've got someone who has an enormous number 889 00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,520 Speaker 1: of tokens and there are huge contributors, like lots and 890 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,960 Speaker 1: lots of money has been contributed into the treasury. If 891 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:42,520 Speaker 1: one person has enough power, they could propose a resolution 892 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,480 Speaker 1: to award them the entirety of the treasury, like they 893 00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,360 Speaker 1: could just take all the money out of the treasury 894 00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,240 Speaker 1: of the Tao, and if they have enough votes to 895 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:57,600 Speaker 1: make that proposal pass, they could do it. Now. Usually 896 00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,160 Speaker 1: you have protections in place where you need to have 897 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,920 Speaker 1: not just a simple majority, but an overwhelming majority for 898 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: something like that to happen, which mitigates that risk. But 899 01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,000 Speaker 1: it is a potential risk, and it does say that 900 01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,120 Speaker 1: you have to be careful when constructing the tao. As 901 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: for the construction of sovereign Tao, I have no common 902 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,200 Speaker 1: on that. I don't know what they've done, I don't 903 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,320 Speaker 1: know how it's built, I don't know the nature of 904 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:29,760 Speaker 1: the smart contracts. So I don't know how effective or 905 01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:35,160 Speaker 1: safe or risky it is, but I can say that 906 01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:40,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me to see Anonymous trying to move 907 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: toward a DOO structure for the purposes of achieving its goals, 908 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:52,240 Speaker 1: because all of the composite elements of a tao seem 909 01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:57,960 Speaker 1: to fall in line with the core values of Anonymous itself. 910 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,720 Speaker 1: I hope that's there's your question. I know this was 911 01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,200 Speaker 1: a super long episode, but I feel like it was 912 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,440 Speaker 1: covering some really important things and again giving us that context. 913 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,080 Speaker 1: We need to understand where stuff comes from and how 914 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:15,040 Speaker 1: it plays together to really be able to form opinions 915 01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,000 Speaker 1: about it. Otherwise our opinion is going to be uninformed, 916 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: and often it means we can make decisions that are 917 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily the best for us, simply because we did 918 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,520 Speaker 1: not have a full appreciation of the information that's out there. 919 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,800 Speaker 1: So that was my purpose for going super long with 920 01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,200 Speaker 1: this episode, which is funny because typically on Wednesdays I 921 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,000 Speaker 1: aim for tech stuff tidbits that are supposed to be short. 922 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,480 Speaker 1: This is clearly not one of those, all right, If 923 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,480 Speaker 1: you have suggestions for future topics of tech stuff, you 924 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,080 Speaker 1: can reach out to me by tweeting at tech stuff. 925 01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,360 Speaker 1: It's tech stuff hsw on Twitter. Send me a message there. 926 01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,560 Speaker 1: Or you can download the iHeartRadio app. It's for you 927 01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,280 Speaker 1: to download and use. Navigate over to tech Stuff by 928 01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,520 Speaker 1: putting it into the little search bar. It'll take it 929 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,560 Speaker 1: to the text page. You can click on the little 930 01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,000 Speaker 1: microphone icon and leave me a voice message up to 931 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,640 Speaker 1: thirty seconds in length. Let me know what you would 932 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,160 Speaker 1: like to hear. Or you could be like Nathan and 933 01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,280 Speaker 1: do some work, then find an email address for me 934 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: out there in the world and send me an email. 935 01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm not going to share my email because I already 936 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,400 Speaker 1: get a ton of stuff and I can't even file 937 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:22,960 Speaker 1: through all of it. But if it gets through to 938 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:29,680 Speaker 1: me and it's interesting, yeah, I'll tackle it. Good job, Nathan, Yeah, jerk, 939 01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,120 Speaker 1: I don't mean that. I'm just joking because you found 940 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: a way to email me, all right. One way to 941 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:37,959 Speaker 1: email me, by the way, is if you're a fan 942 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,640 Speaker 1: of Ridiculous History, because occasionally Ben Bolan likes to give 943 01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,240 Speaker 1: out my email address as the complaints department. So there 944 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,640 Speaker 1: you go. All right, that's it. I'll talk to you 945 01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:58,080 Speaker 1: again really soon. Text stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For 946 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:03,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 947 01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.