1 00:00:00,130 --> 00:00:04,090 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians we are returning with a classic episode 2 00:00:04,190 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: now as any student of history knows uh american and 3 00:00:09,050 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: german forces didn't really get along during world war. 4 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:17,420 Speaker 2: Ii no sure didn't uh however sometimes there's a bit 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: of an exception and that in this case is a 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: little something called the battle of. 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,340 Speaker 1: Castle itter this is a cinematic story so much so 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,450 Speaker 1: that no i almost don't want to spoil it other 9 00:00:28,490 --> 00:00:29,550 Speaker 1: than just saying the name. 10 00:00:29,810 --> 00:00:31,430 Speaker 3: Ben, you couldn't spoil it for me if you tried. 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: No recollection of this one either. 12 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: Castle Itter, when Germans and Americans joined forces in World 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,060 Speaker 1: War II. 14 00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 3: Sounds nice. Let's roll the tape. 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:01:11,890 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, 16 00:01:11,910 --> 00:01:16,290 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Thank you for tuning in. If you were 17 00:01:16,430 --> 00:01:19,530 Speaker 1: ever a fan of video games, you were probably aware 18 00:01:19,590 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: at some point of the video game franchise Wolfenstein II. 19 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:30,220 Speaker 1: 3D first-person shooter wherein you're obliterating Nazis. It's a lot 20 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,500 Speaker 1: of fun. It scared me as a kid. Hi, I'm Ben. 21 00:01:32,740 --> 00:01:37,730 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Noel. So, Ben, you played the Wolfenstein? Wolfenstein? Steen? 22 00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:38,590 Speaker 4: 3D? 23 00:01:38,990 --> 00:01:42,470 Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't remember if it was 3D, but it 24 00:01:42,490 --> 00:01:44,670 Speaker 1: was on a PC, and it was sort of the, 25 00:01:45,390 --> 00:01:48,830 Speaker 1: in my childhood mind, it was like the lighter version 26 00:01:49,030 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: of another similar game called Doom. 27 00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:54,470 Speaker 3: Right, right. It's the predecessor. I think it's the predecessor. Yeah, 28 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:54,870 Speaker 3: it is. 29 00:01:54,890 --> 00:01:55,389 Speaker 1: That's correct. 30 00:01:55,470 --> 00:01:56,930 Speaker 3: And that's our super producer, Casey Pegram. 31 00:01:58,590 --> 00:02:02,170 Speaker 4: Yeah, Wolfenstein was like pseudo 3D. It's really just 2D. 32 00:02:02,330 --> 00:02:04,470 Speaker 4: It's just moving a bunch of 2D sprites around to 33 00:02:04,490 --> 00:02:06,730 Speaker 4: make it feel like 3D. Doom was kind of like. 34 00:02:06,750 --> 00:02:08,810 Speaker 3: What is this nerd talk? What is this sprites? 35 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:10,300 Speaker 4: It was a little more two and a half D. 36 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:12,590 Speaker 4: And then Quake is where they made the big jump 37 00:02:12,650 --> 00:02:13,889 Speaker 4: to full 3D. 38 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:15,390 Speaker 1: To actual 3D. Casey on the case. 39 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,419 Speaker 1: I am also pleasantly surprised that you have some thoughts 40 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:23,340 Speaker 1: on this matter, huh? 41 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,700 Speaker 4: I was a diehard gamer in the 90s, yeah. 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 3: Oh, wow. 43 00:02:26,660 --> 00:02:28,299 Speaker 4: I have not cared about it in a long time. 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 3: So sprites are just kind of the building blocks of 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:30,780 Speaker 3: these games. 46 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,820 Speaker 1: They're like the characters. 47 00:02:31,860 --> 00:02:34,579 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. They're like the elements you move around, basically. 48 00:02:34,820 --> 00:02:36,820 Speaker 3: But like they're even textures and stuff, right? 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: Isn't that? 50 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:40,870 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so sprites. this is where my knowledge 51 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:43,970 Speaker 4: runs out, but I think, you know, like nowadays it's 52 00:02:43,990 --> 00:02:46,390 Speaker 4: all about textures. Cause you have like surfaces and you're 53 00:02:46,410 --> 00:02:48,650 Speaker 4: applying the textures to them. The Sprite was kind of 54 00:02:48,669 --> 00:02:50,750 Speaker 4: like all in one, like it was the character, but 55 00:02:50,770 --> 00:02:52,700 Speaker 4: also the texture. Cause it was like a drawing. 56 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:53,540 Speaker 1: That's cool. 57 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 3: Yeah. 58 00:02:54,180 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: This, this is strange because like many people in the 59 00:02:58,139 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: West who grew up in a post world war two environment, we, 60 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,230 Speaker 1: whenever there was like an evil army, uh, Easily, I'm 61 00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:11,350 Speaker 1: just going to make up the statistic, easily 8.62 times 62 00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:14,470 Speaker 1: out of 10, that evil army would be represented by 63 00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:19,010 Speaker 1: the Nazis or something like the Nazi party, which is 64 00:03:19,070 --> 00:03:22,310 Speaker 1: strange when you look back. But it was very common 65 00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:28,309 Speaker 1: to have games wherein a person is fighting against Nazi 66 00:03:28,380 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: forces just the way that some modern fighting games have 67 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:34,820 Speaker 1: people fighting against North Korean forces or somewhere in the 68 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:40,140 Speaker 1: Middle East. Today's story is about Nazis, and it's got 69 00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:42,860 Speaker 1: a lot of cool stuff in here. We've got a 70 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: spooky castle, right? 71 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,540 Speaker 2: Yeah, hence the Wolfenstein reference because I believe Wolfenstein in 72 00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:51,810 Speaker 2: the parlance of the game was this giant fortress that 73 00:03:51,830 --> 00:03:53,950 Speaker 2: you're traversing, like all the different floors. 74 00:03:54,690 --> 00:03:57,030 Speaker 1: Yes. Thank you. I totally forgot. That is why we're 75 00:03:57,070 --> 00:03:58,070 Speaker 1: talking about Wolfenstein. 76 00:03:58,090 --> 00:04:00,970 Speaker 3: We're also talking about killing Nazis. Ah, yes. 77 00:04:01,350 --> 00:04:04,460 Speaker 1: Someone's got to do it. So we can go ahead 78 00:04:04,620 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: and set the stage for World War II very, very quickly. 79 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: It's the global conflict that lasted from 1939 to 1945, 80 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,570 Speaker 1: and it involved Axis powers and Allied powers. Often, at 81 00:04:18,630 --> 00:04:22,510 Speaker 1: least in the U.S., it is painted as a war 82 00:04:22,570 --> 00:04:25,849 Speaker 1: with a few prime actors. You know, they'll say, yes, 83 00:04:26,830 --> 00:04:27,770 Speaker 1: Japan and the U.S. 84 00:04:27,810 --> 00:04:28,170 Speaker 3: Fought. 85 00:04:28,770 --> 00:04:33,750 Speaker 1: Yes, Europeans helped out. That's how they'll put it. They'll 86 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,690 Speaker 1: be like, Europeans helped out American forces, but really it 87 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:40,170 Speaker 1: was America versus Germany. That's a vast oversimplification. 88 00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:41,470 Speaker 3: It really is, but that's what we do here on 89 00:04:41,510 --> 00:04:43,870 Speaker 3: Ridiculous History. Vast oversimplification. 90 00:04:43,950 --> 00:04:44,500 Speaker 1: Is that it? 91 00:04:44,630 --> 00:04:46,070 Speaker 3: That's our bread and butter, my man. 92 00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:48,190 Speaker 1: Well, it is painted. You know, a lot of countries 93 00:04:48,250 --> 00:04:51,390 Speaker 1: do that. If you read a textbook somewhere else, they're 94 00:04:51,430 --> 00:04:54,790 Speaker 1: going to have their own country's take on World War II, 95 00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:58,690 Speaker 1: and the American take is, you know, pretty America-centric, right? 96 00:04:58,910 --> 00:04:59,430 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 97 00:05:00,029 --> 00:05:02,289 Speaker 2: What we have in today's episode, though, is a very rare— 98 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: case of cooperation between these parties, right? And an unprecedented 99 00:05:07,750 --> 00:05:09,909 Speaker 2: move to kind of, like, when everything hit. 100 00:05:09,790 --> 00:05:11,590 Speaker 3: The fan, right? You know, so the war's coming to 101 00:05:11,630 --> 00:05:11,970 Speaker 3: an end. 102 00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:15,290 Speaker 2: Hitler's eating his suicide pill and shot himself in the face. 103 00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: That's the thing I remember most about Wolfenstein, by the way. 104 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:19,270 Speaker 2: You have to fight Hitler in the end. Spoiler alert 105 00:05:19,310 --> 00:05:21,870 Speaker 2: for a game that's, like, 30, 40 years old. He's 106 00:05:21,910 --> 00:05:22,950 Speaker 2: in a giant mech suit. 107 00:05:22,970 --> 00:05:23,630 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's awesome. 108 00:05:23,690 --> 00:05:26,510 Speaker 2: And at the end, when you kill him, he says, Eva, 109 00:05:26,970 --> 00:05:30,070 Speaker 2: auf Wiedersehen, referring to his wife, Eva Braun. 110 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: Right. 111 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:34,390 Speaker 2: So, so Mech Hitler has been annihilated at this point 112 00:05:34,490 --> 00:05:37,370 Speaker 2: in the, you know, alternate history version of World War II. 113 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:43,289 Speaker 2: And this castle becomes the site of an unusual union. 114 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: Yes, this is Castle Itter. And today we're exploring the 115 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:51,500 Speaker 1: story of the only time that Americans and Germans fought 116 00:05:51,580 --> 00:05:56,020 Speaker 1: as allies during World War II. So Itter Castle is 117 00:05:56,460 --> 00:06:01,010 Speaker 1: is a 19th century castle in a village called Itter 118 00:06:01,650 --> 00:06:05,429 Speaker 1: in Austria. And it looks spooky. It looks like something 119 00:06:05,610 --> 00:06:07,750 Speaker 1: out of, I don't know, it looks like the kind 120 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:12,180 Speaker 1: of castle Hellboy runs into in the Mike Mignola stories. Absolutely. 121 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 3: I mean, it definitely haunted as hell seeming. 122 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: And just for fun, let's see what Forvo says about 123 00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: the pronunciation of this castle. Itta. 124 00:06:19,060 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 3: I got it. 125 00:06:20,140 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: Itta. 126 00:06:21,170 --> 00:06:24,100 Speaker 2: I love the German intensity. And we're going to get 127 00:06:24,130 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: into some fun German words in this episode. 128 00:06:25,940 --> 00:06:26,420 Speaker 3: But it's true. 129 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:31,500 Speaker 2: It looks like something out of, like, a fractured, haunted, grim, grim, 130 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,340 Speaker 2: grim fairy tale. It's topped with those cool little, you know, 131 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,870 Speaker 2: crenellations that are the separated little turrets in between the 132 00:06:38,890 --> 00:06:41,810 Speaker 2: walls where you can shoot, you know, arrows or whatever. 133 00:06:41,850 --> 00:06:43,690 Speaker 1: The pattern that looks like one side of a zipper. 134 00:06:44,070 --> 00:06:47,310 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And it has a very, very. 135 00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:52,010 Speaker 2: Rich history at first shows up in around 1244 in 136 00:06:52,070 --> 00:06:56,510 Speaker 2: German land records. And then it's been passed through several 137 00:06:56,610 --> 00:07:03,770 Speaker 2: different owners, different hands. In 1938, when Germany annexed Austria, 138 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: the castle became a very sought-after site for all the 139 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: secret weird stuff that Nazis were getting into. 140 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: It's true. The Reich government officially leased the castle in 1940. 141 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: from its owner at the time, one Franz Gruner. And 142 00:07:21,020 --> 00:07:25,540 Speaker 1: the castle went through some weird things because after they 143 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,620 Speaker 1: had leased it or requisitioned it for their very vaguely 144 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: phrased official use, it went through a couple of iterations. 145 00:07:35,180 --> 00:07:38,780 Speaker 1: It was, for a while, it was the swank offices 146 00:07:38,930 --> 00:07:42,950 Speaker 1: of an organization called the German Association for Combating the 147 00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:45,670 Speaker 1: Dangers of Tobacco. Because say what you will about Nazis. 148 00:07:46,470 --> 00:07:48,750 Speaker 1: They understood that tobacco was dangerous. True. 149 00:07:48,870 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: They were sticklers for health, although it doesn't take away 150 00:07:51,710 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: from the image of the, you know, imperially slim SS 151 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,540 Speaker 2: officer with a cigarette holder and an eye patch, you know. 152 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:02,180 Speaker 3: But I could still be hearkening back to our video game. 153 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,780 Speaker 1: And then, like, think about this, though. How amazing is 154 00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: that to have your office be a castle? It didn't last. 155 00:08:11,340 --> 00:08:16,610 Speaker 1: On February 7th, 1943— The entire structure and all the 156 00:08:16,650 --> 00:08:22,660 Speaker 1: accompanying buildings were requisitioned by SS Lieutenant General Oswald Pohl 157 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:25,860 Speaker 1: under the orders of Heinrich Himmler. And then it was 158 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,660 Speaker 1: transformed into a prison, but not just any prison. 159 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:31,210 Speaker 3: No, not just any prison. 160 00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:36,710 Speaker 2: And it was associated with probably the most notorious site ever. 161 00:08:37,179 --> 00:08:40,459 Speaker 2: in all of, like, Nazi involvement in World War II, 162 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: which would be the Dachau Concentration Camp, which operated the facility, 163 00:08:46,220 --> 00:08:48,449 Speaker 2: which they referred to as a— oh, boy, I'm going to 164 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:52,910 Speaker 2: do my best on this one— evacuee rungschlager, which means an 165 00:08:53,050 --> 00:08:53,850 Speaker 2: evacuation camp. 166 00:08:53,890 --> 00:08:55,950 Speaker 3: I love how the etymology is so interesting. 167 00:08:55,990 --> 00:09:01,170 Speaker 2: Like, evacuee is spelled E-V-A-K-U-I-E, and then the American word is, 168 00:09:01,190 --> 00:09:06,579 Speaker 2: you know, evacuation, evacuate. So the castle was already— you know, 169 00:09:06,620 --> 00:09:09,900 Speaker 2: an impenetrable fortress. I mean, with these high walls and 170 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,460 Speaker 2: those turrets we talked about, but they transformed it even further, 171 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 2: adding on to features that already existed, like these huge walls. 172 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 3: They had a moat. 173 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,970 Speaker 2: It had this gatehouse that was very, very difficult to penetrate. 174 00:09:23,540 --> 00:09:27,970 Speaker 2: And they added these tangles of multi-layers of barbed wire, 175 00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:30,470 Speaker 2: or they call it concertina wire, which I guess is 176 00:09:30,490 --> 00:09:33,110 Speaker 2: the really, really skinny, like, razor wire that'll slice right 177 00:09:33,150 --> 00:09:36,630 Speaker 2: through you. and then they refitted it with these very 178 00:09:36,690 --> 00:09:42,740 Speaker 2: complex locks and essentially rendered the facility absolutely impregnable to 179 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:44,980 Speaker 2: either get into or get out of. 180 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,260 Speaker 1: Twenty of the existing guest rooms in the central housing 181 00:09:53,330 --> 00:09:59,230 Speaker 1: structure were converted into secure but pretty roomy cells. Others 182 00:09:59,290 --> 00:10:04,300 Speaker 1: were turned into guard rooms and offices. These were not 183 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:10,420 Speaker 1: cells for your typical office. a political protester or petty criminal. 184 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:16,870 Speaker 1: This became a home for VIP French prisoners of war. Yeah. 185 00:10:16,970 --> 00:10:20,410 Speaker 2: Folks like, uh, the two former prime ministers of France. 186 00:10:20,450 --> 00:10:23,569 Speaker 2: There was, uh, Paul Renault, Renault, Casey on the case. 187 00:10:23,890 --> 00:10:24,210 Speaker 4: Renault. 188 00:10:24,410 --> 00:10:24,790 Speaker 3: Renault. 189 00:10:25,050 --> 00:10:25,429 Speaker 1: Oh, Renault. 190 00:10:25,490 --> 00:10:32,699 Speaker 3: And then we have Eduard, uh, Daladier, D-A-L-A-D-I-E-R, huh? Daladier. Yeah. Daladier. 191 00:10:32,860 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: Got it. Uh, And I know this one, General Charles 192 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,050 Speaker 3: de Gaulle. Charles de Gaulle. Yeah, see, Charles. I love this. 193 00:10:39,130 --> 00:10:40,689 Speaker 2: It's my favorite part of the show when Casey gets 194 00:10:40,730 --> 00:10:43,670 Speaker 2: to correct our pronunciations. The older sister, in fact, of 195 00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:46,530 Speaker 2: General Charles de Gaulle. Not a hard S on the end, 196 00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:47,170 Speaker 2: just a Charles. 197 00:10:47,550 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: That's right. Okay. And her name was Marie Agnes Callelou. 198 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 4: Marie Agnes Callelou, probably. 199 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: Casey on the case. 200 00:10:55,179 --> 00:10:55,239 Speaker 3: Oh. 201 00:10:57,970 --> 00:11:01,050 Speaker 1: So we have a firsthand account about the conversion of 202 00:11:01,150 --> 00:11:05,530 Speaker 1: the castle into a prison by Hans Fuchs. Hans saw 203 00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:08,150 Speaker 1: every— he was growing up in the area. Hans says, we 204 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: saw everything from our school window, the double barbed wire fence, 205 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: the floodlights, so that the whole night was lit up 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:20,540 Speaker 1: like the day. But again, Schloss Itter, or the Castle Itter, 207 00:11:21,220 --> 00:11:26,090 Speaker 1: was a subunit of the Dachau concentration camp's And they 208 00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:30,710 Speaker 1: wanted the people who were imprisoned in this castle to 209 00:11:30,770 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: be relatively well cared for so that they could be 210 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,619 Speaker 1: used as bargaining chips. We will give you one of 211 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: the former prime ministers if you give us this other stuff. 212 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,660 Speaker 1: But the problem here for Castle Itter was that they 213 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,949 Speaker 1: were existing in the last days of the war, like 214 00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:52,869 Speaker 1: May 1945. It's pretty clear how things are going to 215 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:56,830 Speaker 1: shake out. The German guards at the prison run away, 216 00:11:57,150 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: but the French prisoners are trapped, and the woods around 217 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,020 Speaker 1: the castle are full of roaming, desperate units of SS 218 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: and Gestapo. 219 00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 3: Not necessarily in mech suits, but we weren't there. 220 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: Mech suits are amazing. I'm just going to say. I 221 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,260 Speaker 1: know that they've been used for evil purposes in fiction, 222 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,780 Speaker 1: but they're just, they're like one of my favorite things. 223 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,540 Speaker 3: You've got some figures on your desk, don't you? Models. Yeah, 224 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,890 Speaker 3: from Pacific Rim. Oh, no. Okay. 225 00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:25,829 Speaker 1: From Pacific Rim. And those are huge mechs. But, you know, 226 00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:28,309 Speaker 1: I'm a sucker for it. Tell me your favorite mechs. 227 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:31,050 Speaker 1: Ridiculous at iHeartRadio.com. 228 00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:31,630 Speaker 3: Please do. 229 00:12:31,770 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 230 00:12:32,290 --> 00:12:34,500 Speaker 2: We should just have an email box just for favorite mechs. 231 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:39,660 Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio.com. The newer iterations, I know we keep harping 232 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: on this, but the newer iterations of the Wolfenstein games 233 00:12:42,260 --> 00:12:45,300 Speaker 2: are super cool and involve a lot more of this 234 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,739 Speaker 2: future tech that we're talking about, like the big robot suits, 235 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 2: and they have robot SS dogs and all this stuff, 236 00:12:51,220 --> 00:12:52,420 Speaker 2: and they get really intense. 237 00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: The last few were quite difficult, in fact. 238 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: I haven't played it in years and years and years. 239 00:12:57,780 --> 00:13:05,150 Speaker 1: To me, this story feels like something... very Inglorious Bastards-esque, 240 00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:09,630 Speaker 1: you know? It feels like there's some Tarantino inspiration here 241 00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:14,710 Speaker 1: because the French prisoners know that if they try to escape, 242 00:13:14,830 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: they will be discovered. So through some internal mechanism, perhaps 243 00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:23,390 Speaker 1: they're drawing straws or maybe some brave souls volunteered, the 244 00:13:23,429 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: French prisoners send out two prisoners on bicycles to try 245 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: to find help. According to Stephen Harding, author of a 246 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: book called The Last Battle, One of these French prisoners 247 00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: found a German major, Josef, I'm just going to spell 248 00:13:39,179 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: the last name, G-A-N-G-L, Gangl. 249 00:13:41,980 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 3: I like it. 250 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:47,180 Speaker 1: He was a highly decorated Wehrmacht officer, and he had 251 00:13:47,250 --> 00:13:50,910 Speaker 1: become opposed to the Nazis and was collaborating with the 252 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:52,570 Speaker 1: local resistance in Austria. 253 00:13:52,750 --> 00:13:55,410 Speaker 2: That is so interesting. Can we discuss a little bit 254 00:13:55,630 --> 00:13:58,309 Speaker 2: the difference between the Nazis and the Wehrmacht Republic? 255 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: Oh, good question. Yeah, because there is a difference and 256 00:14:01,420 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: it gives us a little insight into the motivation of 257 00:14:05,740 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: this major. 258 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:06,830 Speaker 3: It does. 259 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,730 Speaker 2: And again, a little bit of a surfacy discussion of this, 260 00:14:09,790 --> 00:14:13,110 Speaker 2: but the Nazi party, you know, essentially took over a 261 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:17,820 Speaker 2: pre-existing Germany with the attempt to make it a one-party system. 262 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: But the Wehrmacht... soldiers were already, you know, in place 263 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,780 Speaker 2: before the Nazis took over. The Nazis, like including like 264 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,730 Speaker 2: the SS and the Gestapo and the Nazi soldiers were 265 00:14:28,770 --> 00:14:32,730 Speaker 2: required to really have this ethnic cleansing kind of ideology, 266 00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:37,750 Speaker 2: you know, in a very fanatical way. Whereas the Wehrmacht soldiers, 267 00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:40,090 Speaker 2: some of them might have been whole hog into the 268 00:14:40,130 --> 00:14:42,390 Speaker 2: Nazi way of thinking. Some of them might have been, 269 00:14:42,530 --> 00:14:44,170 Speaker 2: you know, a little more old school or like, or 270 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,510 Speaker 2: the way they liked things before the Nazis came in. 271 00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: So that totally makes sense that this guy would have, 272 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: been one of the ones who maybe wasn't as fanatical 273 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,820 Speaker 2: at all and was into helping the resistance. 274 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,660 Speaker 1: Absolutely. You can picture him saying the German army used 275 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:04,030 Speaker 1: to stand for something noble. Long story short, this was 276 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:07,970 Speaker 1: the perfect guy for these French prison scouts to meet. 277 00:15:08,430 --> 00:15:12,470 Speaker 1: And the major thinks, well, I can't protect these prisoners. 278 00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: I only have 20 soldiers that I can count on. 279 00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: That's right. 280 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:21,900 Speaker 1: So, He takes a huge white flag, which is, you know, 281 00:15:21,970 --> 00:15:25,810 Speaker 1: the universal symbol for coming in peace. And he finds 282 00:15:25,890 --> 00:15:30,110 Speaker 1: the closest American unit, the 23rd Tank Battalion of the U.S. 283 00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:34,210 Speaker 1: 12th Armored Division. led by a guy named Captain Jack Lee. 284 00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:34,890 Speaker 3: Oh, Captain Jack. 285 00:15:35,070 --> 00:15:38,370 Speaker 1: Well, led by a guy named Jack Lee, who was 286 00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:41,670 Speaker 1: a captain. His first name was not Captain Jack Lee, 287 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: though that would be really cool. I still will refer 288 00:15:43,660 --> 00:15:44,940 Speaker 1: to him henceforth as Captain Jack. 289 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: And Lee was down. He was like, okay, let's do this. 290 00:15:49,180 --> 00:15:51,740 Speaker 2: And he offered to lead a rescue mission. 291 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: Very daring. 292 00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: Rescue mission to the impenetrable Castle Ita. Yeah, so this 293 00:15:58,840 --> 00:15:59,340 Speaker 2: is strange. 294 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,340 Speaker 1: The Americans, as you said, Noel, they go with this 295 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: Wehrmacht major and they park their tank close to the 296 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,580 Speaker 1: castle entrance. On May 5th in the morning, the SS 297 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,060 Speaker 1: finally attacks. They blow up the tank, but they're unable 298 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: to storm the castle and And this is about five 299 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,830 Speaker 1: days after Adolf Hitler committed suicide on April 30th. So 300 00:16:23,890 --> 00:16:27,830 Speaker 1: things are already very, very desperate on the German side. 301 00:16:27,850 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: You know what? Before we go too, too far, we 302 00:16:31,270 --> 00:16:34,940 Speaker 1: should examine those two people they sent out for help 303 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,340 Speaker 1: and learn a little bit more about them. Because I 304 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,430 Speaker 1: had said earlier that two of the French prisoners went 305 00:16:42,510 --> 00:16:46,359 Speaker 1: out on bicycle, right? That's not entirely true. One of 306 00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:50,739 Speaker 1: the guys was their Yugoslavian handyman, and he actually, he's 307 00:16:50,780 --> 00:16:53,300 Speaker 1: the first guy who went out. He found some U.S. 308 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: troops in Innsbruck, but because the castle was outside of 309 00:16:56,900 --> 00:17:01,770 Speaker 1: their jurisdiction, they didn't all go. Major John T. Kramers 310 00:17:02,130 --> 00:17:06,450 Speaker 1: had a crisis of conscience and sent a small rescue group, 311 00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:10,290 Speaker 1: but the French VIP folks in Itter had not heard 312 00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: back from him So the person they sent who actually 313 00:17:12,890 --> 00:17:18,300 Speaker 1: found Gungle and Captain Jack C. Lee, that was their cook. 314 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: So they were sending out the help. 315 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 316 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:28,090 Speaker 2: Because let's not forget, these were, let's call them. high 317 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,770 Speaker 2: value prisoners, right? Folks that they could leverage. They wanted 318 00:17:31,790 --> 00:17:33,570 Speaker 2: to keep alive and they wanted them to live in 319 00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:39,459 Speaker 2: at least relatively comfortable environments, almost like Julian Assange in 320 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 2: the embassy kind of situation. Free to move around the facilities, adequate, 321 00:17:44,660 --> 00:17:48,540 Speaker 2: you know, comfortable quarters and food and all of that. 322 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: But at this point, these folks were very much in 323 00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:56,780 Speaker 2: fear of their lives. They could either be executed summarily 324 00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: just to get rid of any witnesses or whatever. You know, 325 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,030 Speaker 2: at this point, it was like a scorched earth kind 326 00:18:02,050 --> 00:18:03,870 Speaker 2: of situation for the Germans, right? 327 00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:06,610 Speaker 3: They're trying to, like, get rid of any evidence. 328 00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:08,730 Speaker 2: Point being is you would not have felt very safe 329 00:18:09,070 --> 00:18:12,609 Speaker 2: with all of these Nazis in full freak-out mode, right? 330 00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:13,270 Speaker 3: Agreed. 331 00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:21,460 Speaker 1: And the battle that takes place is terrifying. in some 332 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: ways astonishing because the defenders were vastly outnumbered. They were 333 00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:32,890 Speaker 1: fighting about 100 to 150 SS troops. Eventually, the attackers 334 00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:37,970 Speaker 1: shoot and kill the Wehrmacht Major Gangl. As I mentioned, 335 00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: they destroyed the tank. They damaged the castle walls. Even 336 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,260 Speaker 1: the prisoners are joining in with small arms they found 337 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,510 Speaker 1: after the guards ran away originally. The battle lasts for 338 00:18:49,550 --> 00:18:53,369 Speaker 1: about six hours, and things are looking increasingly dire. The 339 00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: Allied forces, that would be the German forces and the 340 00:18:58,730 --> 00:19:03,940 Speaker 1: prisoners and the U.S. forces, are running out of ammunition. 341 00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:08,220 Speaker 1: And then, the last moment, the way that all great 342 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: battles go in works of fiction and so on, just 343 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: as they were getting down to their last bullets, a 344 00:19:15,140 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: column of tanks, that small rescue party, organized by John Kramers, 345 00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:24,619 Speaker 1: arrives in the afternoon and scatters the SS forces. And 346 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: this Hans Fuchs kid, who's 14 at the time, was 347 00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:31,620 Speaker 1: watching it all from his family's farm. He's seen clouds 348 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,660 Speaker 1: of dust and smoke and machine gun fire that goes 349 00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:38,700 Speaker 1: on and on for hours. That's the battle. Oh, they 350 00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:39,380 Speaker 1: take prisoners. 351 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 2: Well, you got to take some prisoners. They got a 352 00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:43,540 Speaker 2: castle at their disposal. I mean, they might as well 353 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: make good use of it, right? 354 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 3: I know, right? 355 00:19:45,380 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: It's like you have to have a moat. 356 00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:49,050 Speaker 3: They called it a dry moat though, Ben. What does 357 00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 3: that mean? that doesn't sound as scary as a wet 358 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:52,860 Speaker 3: moat full of like alligators right. 359 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,990 Speaker 1: Yeah i guess a dry moat is just a circular ditch. 360 00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:58,190 Speaker 2: Yeah but i guess it would it would certainly make 361 00:19:58,230 --> 00:20:00,290 Speaker 2: it you know you couldn't like cross it with a 362 00:20:00,330 --> 00:20:03,210 Speaker 2: tank or something like that right it limits your path Right. 363 00:20:03,250 --> 00:20:04,290 Speaker 3: Into and out of the facility. 364 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:07,470 Speaker 1: The incline is probably so steep and so wide that 365 00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: you can only cross over a bridge. 366 00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:12,500 Speaker 3: That's it. That makes perfect sense. So about 100 SS. 367 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:16,420 Speaker 1: Troops are taken prisoner. That's according to a report from 368 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: the BBC. And the only fatality on the Allied side 369 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: there was Major Gongle, who later was buried in a 370 00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:27,790 Speaker 1: nearby town and had a street named after him. 371 00:20:28,190 --> 00:20:29,869 Speaker 3: Did we talk about the commander who killed himself? 372 00:20:30,550 --> 00:20:31,090 Speaker 1: We did not. 373 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:33,629 Speaker 2: So this is backtracking just a little bit, but I 374 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:35,290 Speaker 2: just think it's interesting because this is, you know, a 375 00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:39,750 Speaker 2: very dramatic end, right? So, I mean, once it was 376 00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:43,090 Speaker 2: very clear that things were not going their way, they 377 00:20:43,109 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: were losing ground, you know, by the second, the actual 378 00:20:49,140 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: commander of Dachau turned tail and ran to Castle Ytter 379 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: as it was being liberated by the troops, and then 380 00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: he killed himself on May the 2nd. And that's when 381 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,109 Speaker 2: the castle's own commandant, and the guards took off, and 382 00:21:03,310 --> 00:21:06,090 Speaker 2: that was what left the prisoners in charge of their 383 00:21:06,130 --> 00:21:07,430 Speaker 2: own destiny, kind of, right? 384 00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:09,409 Speaker 3: So then they were able to, you know, but they 385 00:21:09,450 --> 00:21:10,650 Speaker 3: were still locked inside, right? 386 00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:16,260 Speaker 1: Yes. So later, after they start picking up the pieces 387 00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:19,780 Speaker 1: of the conflict, caring for the wounded, getting rid of 388 00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: the dead, the French VIPs are driven off. They're on 389 00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:29,060 Speaker 1: their way back to Innsbruck, and then they're going to 390 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: be met by senior Allied officers, and then they would 391 00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: return to France to resume their careers. But for the U.S. forces, 392 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:45,270 Speaker 1: this was a little bit, not a letdown, an anticlimactic ending. 393 00:21:46,490 --> 00:21:50,570 Speaker 1: The seven Americans and their surviving soldiers of the Vermont, 394 00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:54,129 Speaker 1: because remember, Gongle commanded 20 soldiers. They all piled in 395 00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:56,710 Speaker 1: the back of a truck, And they took a ride 396 00:21:56,780 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: back to a place called Kufstein. And once there, the 397 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,420 Speaker 1: Germans are marched off to a POW camp. The soldiers 398 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,100 Speaker 1: rejoin their unit. And you should mention these are African-American soldiers. 399 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: And Lee, Harry Bass, and the other tankers just, like, 400 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,790 Speaker 1: called it a day. They did eventually get recognized for 401 00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:24,050 Speaker 1: their leadership. Captain Jack Lee received the Distinguished Service Cross. 402 00:22:24,619 --> 00:22:27,460 Speaker 1: And Harry Bass received the Silver Star. 403 00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:30,740 Speaker 3: And it did turn some heads over in the States. 404 00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 2: On July 1945, there was a piece that ran in 405 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: the Saturday Evening Post. And there's a lovely quote that 406 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,290 Speaker 2: summed up the whole thing, I think, remarkably well. It 407 00:22:40,330 --> 00:22:45,410 Speaker 2: was from Lee himself, the American tank commander. 408 00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:49,050 Speaker 3: And he referred to it as being, quote, just the 409 00:22:49,150 --> 00:22:50,109 Speaker 3: damnedest thing ever. 410 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: Aw, shucks. And that is where we will leave the story. 411 00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:58,260 Speaker 1: I think that Lee summed it up best. We want 412 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:03,170 Speaker 1: to hear your strange stories about wartime, you know, because 413 00:23:03,369 --> 00:23:06,790 Speaker 1: war is a terrible, terrible thing, but they're also inspiring 414 00:23:07,210 --> 00:23:09,790 Speaker 1: and sometimes beautiful moments that happen in the midst of 415 00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:13,770 Speaker 1: all that chaos. Like the time, the times that opposing 416 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: forces stop fighting each other and go hang out for Christmas, right? 417 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,900 Speaker 1: That's actually happened before. So let us know what sort 418 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,690 Speaker 1: of moving or strange or just downright ridiculous stories you 419 00:23:27,790 --> 00:23:31,970 Speaker 1: have encountered in your own reading or in your own experience. 420 00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:36,020 Speaker 1: And let us know on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. You 421 00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:38,869 Speaker 1: can find us as a show. You can find us individually. 422 00:23:39,250 --> 00:23:41,070 Speaker 1: I am at Ben Bullen on Instagram. 423 00:23:41,170 --> 00:23:44,230 Speaker 3: I am at HowNowNoelBrown on Instagram as well. 424 00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:46,570 Speaker 2: And if you want to check out our Facebook community, 425 00:23:46,590 --> 00:23:48,540 Speaker 2: you can do so at The Ridiculous Historians. 426 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 3: All you have to do is name me, Ben, or 427 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,460 Speaker 3: Casey on the case or make us laugh. 428 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:56,590 Speaker 1: Big, big thanks, as always, to super producer Casey Pegram, 429 00:23:56,770 --> 00:24:00,530 Speaker 1: research associates Gabe Luzia, and Ryan Barish. 430 00:24:00,869 --> 00:24:03,609 Speaker 2: Huge thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Our 431 00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:06,850 Speaker 2: pal Christopher Haciotis, here always in spirit. Damn you, the quizster. 432 00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:09,050 Speaker 3: Damn your eyes. And we hope to see you again 433 00:24:09,090 --> 00:24:09,770 Speaker 3: back on the show. 434 00:24:09,630 --> 00:24:12,090 Speaker 2: Very soon, because I really enjoyed those segments, despite putting 435 00:24:12,150 --> 00:24:13,170 Speaker 2: up a tough front. 436 00:24:13,630 --> 00:24:16,380 Speaker 1: We're overdue. I'd love to have him back on the show. 437 00:24:16,619 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you know who else I'd love to have 438 00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 3: back on the show, Ben? 439 00:24:19,460 --> 00:24:19,820 Speaker 1: Who's that? 440 00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 2: You. 441 00:24:20,780 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 3: Because you're the co-host of the show, and you do 442 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 3: a great job, and I really appreciate you. 443 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: Wait, who's not going to get on the show? 444 00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:27,180 Speaker 3: What? 445 00:24:27,420 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: What, are you firing people? 446 00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 3: You can't fire people. I'm not firing anybody. I'm just 447 00:24:30,180 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 3: saying I look forward to the next time we do this. 448 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: That was a roundabout way of saying that. And I 449 00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: look forward to you folks, you fine folks out there 450 00:24:38,420 --> 00:24:39,669 Speaker 2: in podcast land joining us. 451 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's no smoke when we say reach out. We 452 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: would love to hear your thoughts. You are our favorite 453 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,620 Speaker 1: part of the show, so thank you for tuning in. 454 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:48,990 Speaker 3: See you next time, folks. 455 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,330 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 456 00:25:01,460 --> 00:25:04,410 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.