WEBVTT - 10 Years After Berta Cáceres’s Murder, Why Is Honduras Still So Dangerous for Environmentalists? 0:00:17.242 --> 0:00:33.282 Pushkin. Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westerwald. 0:00:34.082 --> 0:00:36.922 We have a new season coming up for you in April, 0:00:37.002 --> 0:00:39.362 and in the meantime we'll be bringing you a few 0:00:39.962 --> 0:00:45.722 bonus episodes. Today, I'm joined by our new senior Global 0:00:45.762 --> 0:00:49.962 Climate Justice reporter, Nina Lakhani, who has special insight into 0:00:50.002 --> 0:00:53.722 the story of Berta Cassis. This week marks the ten 0:00:53.802 --> 0:00:59.042 year anniversary of Bertha's assassination. She was an indigenous leader 0:00:59.082 --> 0:01:04.562 in Honduras, and it's been proven that the Damn company 0:01:05.202 --> 0:01:09.002 building the Damn she was protesting orchestrated a hit on 0:01:09.081 --> 0:01:15.881 her with the help of various hitman, government officials, police, etc. 0:01:16.601 --> 0:01:20.521 It was a horrific ordeal for Bertha's family, for the 0:01:20.562 --> 0:01:24.521 whole movement in Honduras, and it also raised the profile 0:01:24.601 --> 0:01:26.801 of just how dangerous it was to be an environmental 0:01:26.842 --> 0:01:30.801 activist in Honduras. Unfortunately, in those ten years since her death, 0:01:30.801 --> 0:01:33.881 it has not gotten any better, and Nina did a 0:01:33.922 --> 0:01:36.722 deep dive on what's been going on in those ten years, 0:01:37.161 --> 0:01:40.122 what it looks like now, and what the lasting impact 0:01:40.161 --> 0:01:43.802 of Bertha's work was. Nina also wrote an entire book 0:01:44.321 --> 0:01:47.602 on Bertha's story. It's called who killed Bertha Casseres. It's 0:01:47.682 --> 0:01:51.762 really really excellent and has all of the receipts on 0:01:51.842 --> 0:01:55.322 this whole wild story. So Nina's going to walk us 0:01:55.322 --> 0:01:58.122 through that story and what's been going on in the 0:01:58.202 --> 0:02:02.322 decade since all of that happened in this episode today. 0:02:02.842 --> 0:02:21.842 That's coming up after this quick break. So, Nia, you 0:02:21.842 --> 0:02:24.602 read a whole book about Bertha, and I knew of 0:02:24.642 --> 0:02:26.762 her and her work before you started working on that 0:02:26.842 --> 0:02:30.202 book as well. What was she like as a person 0:02:30.242 --> 0:02:34.002 and a leader and what was so charismatic about her 0:02:34.122 --> 0:02:36.762 that she posed such a threat to these industries. 0:02:37.402 --> 0:02:40.722 Bertha Castides was a unique leader. 0:02:41.002 --> 0:02:47.162 She had this really incredible capacity to explain local struggles 0:02:47.202 --> 0:02:52.442 in regional and global economic and political terms, and she 0:02:52.482 --> 0:02:56.842 could communicate with people from all different sort of walks 0:02:56.842 --> 0:03:00.401 of life. So she was as comfortable in a sort 0:03:00.402 --> 0:03:03.242 of rural community as she was talking to members of 0:03:03.282 --> 0:03:06.082 Congress in the US. She wasn't a person that had 0:03:06.082 --> 0:03:09.962 any formal education. She had four kids very young, but 0:03:10.042 --> 0:03:12.362 she was, you know, a sponge. 0:03:12.642 --> 0:03:14.322 She traveled internationally. 0:03:14.402 --> 0:03:17.882 She spent a lot of time with indigenous communities in 0:03:18.002 --> 0:03:20.362 land and environmental struggles around the world. 0:03:20.522 --> 0:03:22.482 And she was just really really smart. 0:03:22.642 --> 0:03:26.762 She was a political strategist, and she had this ability 0:03:26.882 --> 0:03:31.042 to unite communities, which is really unusual in the social 0:03:31.082 --> 0:03:33.602 movement people sort of have their little fiefdoms. In a way, 0:03:34.002 --> 0:03:38.962 she could bring together the Cambasinos with students, she could 0:03:39.002 --> 0:03:44.042 bring together feminists with unionists. And I think this ability 0:03:44.122 --> 0:03:48.282 to bring people together, as well as her really. 0:03:48.042 --> 0:03:51.722 Sort of very charismatic communication style. 0:03:52.242 --> 0:03:56.642 She had this ability to convince, to really explain things 0:03:56.842 --> 0:04:00.962 to people that the elites, that political and economic elites 0:04:01.322 --> 0:04:04.442 found really threatening. And she could do this intellectually. She 0:04:04.602 --> 0:04:07.042 was very good with words, but she was a person 0:04:07.082 --> 0:04:10.562 that loved action. She now loved nothing more than being 0:04:11.202 --> 0:04:14.482 at protests organizing civil disobedience. 0:04:14.562 --> 0:04:15.562 She was a pacifist. 0:04:15.602 --> 0:04:19.361 Her organization was a non violent class through organization. But 0:04:19.402 --> 0:04:23.681 I think just this ability to be comfortable and powerful 0:04:23.842 --> 0:04:27.602 and convincing, you know, really in so many different spaces, 0:04:28.002 --> 0:04:31.162 among so many different sort of movements, really was a 0:04:31.242 --> 0:04:34.282 threat to the status quo in Honduras. 0:04:34.362 --> 0:04:36.962 Yeah, how did her work first come on your radar? 0:04:37.082 --> 0:04:40.162 You were reporting in Central America when she was active. 0:04:40.242 --> 0:04:42.282 What did you first kind of see her do? 0:04:43.002 --> 0:04:46.242 I met her in twenty thirteen during my first trip 0:04:46.282 --> 0:04:49.562 to Honduras, I went for what were meant to be 0:04:49.682 --> 0:04:54.562 the first legal elections after the two thousand and nine coups, 0:04:55.042 --> 0:04:56.722 and so I went on a reporting trip and I 0:04:56.802 --> 0:05:00.162 met her integrity Gulpay in a capitol where she was 0:05:00.202 --> 0:05:05.202 participating in a press conference to international observers who'd come 0:05:05.282 --> 0:05:08.402 for the election, and she was warning them with such 0:05:08.482 --> 0:05:11.322 clarity that these were not going to be three and 0:05:11.362 --> 0:05:15.762 fair elections, but the social movement was being repressed that 0:05:15.802 --> 0:05:19.082 there was literally a hitless circulating with the names of 0:05:20.322 --> 0:05:24.722 social leaders, including her, around the country who were being targeted. 0:05:24.962 --> 0:05:26.882 I mean, and when I got to take Usigap, I mean, 0:05:26.922 --> 0:05:28.922 it was I was living in Mexico at the time, 0:05:29.002 --> 0:05:31.322 and I'd been to other Central American countries, but the 0:05:31.562 --> 0:05:35.041 level of militarization was like nothing I'd seen before. It 0:05:35.082 --> 0:05:38.722 looked like a war zone. So I met her there 0:05:38.882 --> 0:05:41.362 and I asked her for an interview. At that time, 0:05:41.722 --> 0:05:44.162 she was on the LAMB. There was an arrest warrant 0:05:44.202 --> 0:05:49.242 out for her on bogus criminal charges related to her 0:05:49.322 --> 0:05:53.482 leadership in this opposition of this internationally funded dam called Aguazadga, 0:05:53.962 --> 0:05:56.402 and at the time, her and two colleagues work had 0:05:56.442 --> 0:05:59.442 arrestaurrants against them, and so she was sleeping in different 0:05:59.482 --> 0:06:02.522 places every night. The International at that point had said 0:06:02.562 --> 0:06:05.682 that if they were arrested, they would consider them prisoners 0:06:05.682 --> 0:06:10.042 of conscious because it would be completely arbitrary and politically motivated. 0:06:10.282 --> 0:06:13.202 But she in writed me to go to Laspardanza, which 0:06:13.282 --> 0:06:16.322 is the town in western Honduras where she lived and 0:06:16.362 --> 0:06:18.442 she died, And so I went there a couple of 0:06:18.482 --> 0:06:21.162 days later and I did my only interview with her. 0:06:21.282 --> 0:06:23.042 That was the only time I got to interview her, 0:06:23.522 --> 0:06:26.481 you know, and she just laid out very very clearly. 0:06:26.842 --> 0:06:31.202 I mean a situation was like in Honduras for her personally, 0:06:31.562 --> 0:06:34.681 for her family, I mean the threats that they faced. 0:06:34.842 --> 0:06:36.802 At that point, three of her children. 0:06:36.402 --> 0:06:39.242 Were studying outside of the country because of the threats 0:06:39.562 --> 0:06:40.842 that the whole family faced. 0:06:41.002 --> 0:06:42.921 And she described to me, with a real sort of. 0:06:42.962 --> 0:06:45.522 Sadness, how what it was like to not be able 0:06:45.562 --> 0:06:48.882 to go to the river that the lenk of people 0:06:49.082 --> 0:06:51.842 consider sacred because of their rest woman, because of the 0:06:51.922 --> 0:06:55.522 militarization in the community. And I remember really clearly she 0:06:55.562 --> 0:06:58.562 said to me, look, I'm taking all the measures that 0:06:58.642 --> 0:07:01.642 I can to protect my life. But when they want 0:07:01.682 --> 0:07:05.162 to kill me, they will kill me. And I just 0:07:05.402 --> 0:07:07.522 remember that hour I spent with her. It was like 0:07:07.602 --> 0:07:09.202 one of those sort of moments you have as a 0:07:09.242 --> 0:07:10.802 journalist that are quite life changing. 0:07:11.082 --> 0:07:15.322 She was so impressive. She had such moral and. 0:07:15.242 --> 0:07:20.042 Political and ethical clarity, you know, and she knew she 0:07:20.082 --> 0:07:22.722 had been told to leave the country to safeguard her 0:07:22.762 --> 0:07:26.562 own life, but she was absolutely determined to stay and 0:07:26.642 --> 0:07:30.322 to continue fighting for a better future for people of Honduras. 0:07:30.642 --> 0:07:33.882 There's this line in your piece where you said that 0:07:33.922 --> 0:07:37.762 when you heard about her assassination, you thought to yourself, Jesus, 0:07:37.762 --> 0:07:39.482 that they can kill But like I said, as they 0:07:39.482 --> 0:07:42.442 can kill anyone. So yeah, just kind of what was 0:07:42.482 --> 0:07:45.242 it like hearing that news and how did you dig 0:07:45.282 --> 0:07:47.682 into investigating what happened there. 0:07:48.122 --> 0:07:48.322 Yeah. 0:07:48.362 --> 0:07:50.402 I was on vacation at the time when I woke 0:07:50.482 --> 0:07:53.762 up to various miscalls for my editor at the time 0:07:53.882 --> 0:07:54.962 saying they've killed Bertha. 0:07:55.282 --> 0:07:55.922 Killed Bertha. 0:07:56.082 --> 0:07:59.642 And at the time, she was absolutely the most well 0:07:59.722 --> 0:08:04.402 known environmental and social leader in the Americas. She'd been 0:08:04.442 --> 0:08:08.602 awarded the prestigious Goldman Prize the year previously, she'd only 0:08:08.642 --> 0:08:10.682 a few months earlier had an audience with. 0:08:10.682 --> 0:08:14.842 The poet in Rome, and so she was really well known. 0:08:15.002 --> 0:08:16.042 You know, I member the. 0:08:16.042 --> 0:08:18.722 US Conguess had taken up sort of her case has 0:08:18.762 --> 0:08:21.642 had all of the major sort of human rights organizations. 0:08:22.522 --> 0:08:24.922 To give you a sense of Bertha, here's a short 0:08:24.962 --> 0:08:27.762 clip of the speech that she gave when she accepted 0:08:27.762 --> 0:08:30.002 the Goldman Prize in twenty fifteen. 0:08:30.762 --> 0:08:37.641 Despertemos, despertemos u manida jian wait Tempo Luis tra concience, Yes, 0:08:42.722 --> 0:08:51.842 Louis tra conciencia, couridas porlecho, the star solocon Templando laostruccion bassale, 0:08:51.881 --> 0:08:56.122 la de preda song capitalista rasista ipatriarcal. 0:09:04.761 --> 0:09:07.562 She says, wake up, wake up, humanity, We're out of time. 0:09:08.161 --> 0:09:13.281 We must shake our consciences free of the repatacious capitalism, racism, 0:09:13.362 --> 0:09:17.401 and patriarchy that will only assure our own self destruction. 0:09:19.681 --> 0:09:21.842 And I think it was just so clear to me 0:09:21.962 --> 0:09:27.922 then that the sense of entitlement and impunity that those 0:09:28.041 --> 0:09:32.122 who ordered her murder must have felt to carry out 0:09:32.161 --> 0:09:35.522 that assassination, because there's no way that you could kill 0:09:35.561 --> 0:09:39.921 someone who was so well known internationally without there being 0:09:40.122 --> 0:09:42.602 at least a tacit sort of you know, agreement from 0:09:42.602 --> 0:09:43.721 people very high up. 0:09:44.041 --> 0:09:47.242 I arrived in Honduras. 0:09:46.561 --> 0:09:50.761 In life Spanser, I think about a month after her assassination. 0:09:51.322 --> 0:09:52.002 Where I met. 0:09:52.041 --> 0:09:54.402 It was for the first time her mother, who was 0:09:54.401 --> 0:09:57.682 such a huge inspiration to her sort of social and 0:09:57.761 --> 0:10:00.002 political work, who's ninety three. 0:09:59.881 --> 0:10:02.441 By the way now and still in life, Speranza. 0:10:02.722 --> 0:10:05.521 And the first piece I wrote then was I interviewed 0:10:05.881 --> 0:10:08.721 and spoke to many of her colleagues who were with 0:10:08.801 --> 0:10:10.761 her in those last days and weeks. 0:10:11.161 --> 0:10:13.242 I went to the oblanc Or where the dam. 0:10:13.122 --> 0:10:15.841 Had been destined and sanctioned to be sort of constructed, 0:10:16.322 --> 0:10:19.242 and what became really clear to me was. 0:10:19.202 --> 0:10:21.082 That she knew that time was running out. 0:10:21.521 --> 0:10:26.042 She was under surveillance, there were informants everywhere, and she 0:10:26.122 --> 0:10:29.682 had been making She'd been making plans, you know, She'd 0:10:29.722 --> 0:10:32.881 shared the ability to sign checks, for example, with other 0:10:32.921 --> 0:10:36.442 people in the organization. She'd said goodbye to one of 0:10:36.442 --> 0:10:38.962 her daughters a couple of days earlier. She was on 0:10:39.002 --> 0:10:42.802 their way back to Argentina, and the goodbye felt like 0:10:42.881 --> 0:10:45.362 something more than just a normal sea soon. 0:10:45.521 --> 0:10:48.362 So I think she knew had time was running out, 0:10:48.442 --> 0:10:49.202 and so that was. 0:10:49.202 --> 0:10:51.402 The first piece that I wrote, and then I just 0:10:51.442 --> 0:10:53.801 started digging, and like I was able to get hold 0:10:53.842 --> 0:10:58.282 of documents that showed that some of the Intermediris who 0:10:58.281 --> 0:11:01.682 had been paid by the Damn Company were former army 0:11:01.722 --> 0:11:05.362 officials who had received training by the US at different points. 0:11:05.082 --> 0:11:05.802 In their career. 0:11:06.362 --> 0:11:09.281 And I saw a young soldier from one of the 0:11:09.322 --> 0:11:13.401 Special Forces who went Able a few weeks after her 0:11:13.482 --> 0:11:18.682 murder because because he had been in a unit that 0:11:18.801 --> 0:11:21.682 had been passed around this hit list in which there 0:11:21.842 --> 0:11:26.562 was a name and personal details of multiple social and 0:11:26.602 --> 0:11:29.602 community leaders, some of them had an X through them 0:11:29.641 --> 0:11:33.041 who had already been neutralized, and Berta's name was on 0:11:33.082 --> 0:11:36.881 that list, And so he went Able and ended up 0:11:37.002 --> 0:11:39.602 coming to me and talked to me about this hit list. 0:11:40.041 --> 0:11:42.642 He at the time remembered a lot of the training, 0:11:43.681 --> 0:11:47.122 really awful training that he had had as a young soldier, 0:11:47.722 --> 0:11:52.282 how there'd been military trainers from Israel, from Columbia, from 0:11:52.322 --> 0:11:55.281 other countries there, and was just really frightened he had 0:11:55.322 --> 0:11:56.082 to leave the country. 0:11:56.122 --> 0:11:58.042 He's never been able to go back to the country since, 0:11:58.082 --> 0:11:58.282 you know. 0:11:58.401 --> 0:12:02.562 And as I wrote those pieces, I became a target myself. 0:12:02.681 --> 0:12:07.161 The Honduran ambassador in UK wrote complaints asking for stories 0:12:07.202 --> 0:12:11.721 to be sort of retracted. The US ambassador in at 0:12:11.722 --> 0:12:17.281 the time launched a campaign to discredit me, giving background 0:12:17.401 --> 0:12:21.122 chats to all sorts of people in Honduras, claiming that 0:12:21.641 --> 0:12:24.522 I was just this woman who didn't really understand how 0:12:24.561 --> 0:12:26.041 that armed forces worked. 0:12:26.442 --> 0:12:29.242 They were forced to at least. 0:12:29.082 --> 0:12:31.562 Say they were going to launch an inquiry because the 0:12:31.761 --> 0:12:35.761 army's units that had had this hit list circulated were 0:12:35.881 --> 0:12:39.641 US trained army units, but they carried out no investigation, 0:12:39.761 --> 0:12:41.562 didn't speak to any of the people that were in 0:12:41.641 --> 0:12:42.082 my piece. 0:12:42.242 --> 0:12:44.041 But I became a target from that point. 0:12:44.082 --> 0:12:47.362 Really, there was like these online campaigns calling me a 0:12:47.401 --> 0:12:51.602 media terrorist. And really, since then, that's twenty sixteen, I'd 0:12:51.681 --> 0:12:56.521 never gone into Honduras by air. I've always gone in overland, 0:12:56.561 --> 0:12:59.322 which is very difficult, like it can take a long time. 0:12:59.442 --> 0:13:01.961 Because I was warned, you know, that I could be 0:13:01.962 --> 0:13:05.441 stopped coming in. And then I kept investigating the links, 0:13:05.521 --> 0:13:08.922 and then I was the only journalist National International to 0:13:09.041 --> 0:13:13.722 attend every day the first trial, which was for eight people, 0:13:13.921 --> 0:13:16.122 one who had nothing to do with it, but seven 0:13:16.561 --> 0:13:19.881 between them were the hit men, the hired assassins, and 0:13:19.921 --> 0:13:23.761 the intermediaries. And at the start of that trial, I 0:13:23.881 --> 0:13:27.402 had some really serious threats come my way, some press 0:13:27.442 --> 0:13:31.082 releases from these fake groups in the Baha Guan region, 0:13:31.202 --> 0:13:35.441 which is a really conflicted, dangerous part of Honduras, declaring 0:13:35.482 --> 0:13:40.602 me persona non grata, linking me to Mexican drug cartels, 0:13:40.921 --> 0:13:41.482 calling me. 0:13:41.442 --> 0:13:43.322 A terrorist, all sorts of things. 0:13:43.442 --> 0:13:47.202 And so yeah, the deeper I dug, the more threats 0:13:47.242 --> 0:13:49.761 I got, which and it's that sort of classic case 0:13:49.801 --> 0:13:53.482 of knowing that you're hitting the right things because you're 0:13:53.521 --> 0:13:56.362 really upsetting people. When I was reporting of from the trial, 0:13:56.881 --> 0:13:59.242 the threats came to me from the Aguan which is 0:13:59.281 --> 0:14:02.521 this rural sort of region where there's been long standing 0:14:02.602 --> 0:14:08.362 land conflicts between African palm magnets and Campasinos, which really, 0:14:08.401 --> 0:14:09.801 on the surface have nothing to. 0:14:09.681 --> 0:14:12.801 Do with Butter's case, But I think it really showed that. 0:14:12.842 --> 0:14:19.361 This network of economic, political, military, religious elites, the oligarchy 0:14:19.522 --> 0:14:22.681 that rules Honduras and many many other sort of countries 0:14:22.722 --> 0:14:26.562 in Latin America, you know, control the media, control the 0:14:26.602 --> 0:14:29.602 banking sector, control so much of the power in the 0:14:29.642 --> 0:14:34.122 country are connected, you know, And so a journalist that 0:14:34.282 --> 0:14:38.561 was sort of digging into the modus operandi and the 0:14:38.762 --> 0:14:42.482 structures and systems behind Butta's dev posed a threat to 0:14:42.561 --> 0:14:43.082 all of them. 0:14:43.242 --> 0:14:46.202 Yeah, okay, So walk us through what we know or 0:14:46.242 --> 0:14:52.082 what's been made public so far about exactly what happened here, 0:14:52.202 --> 0:14:55.602 who orchestrated this, and how did the government play into it? 0:14:55.681 --> 0:14:55.802 Too? 0:14:56.402 --> 0:14:56.602 Well. 0:14:56.602 --> 0:15:02.362 We know that Butt was assassinated specifically because of her 0:15:02.642 --> 0:15:08.122 campaign thought the construction of its internationally financed dam on 0:15:08.162 --> 0:15:11.402 this river considers sacred by the Lenca people, and that 0:15:11.922 --> 0:15:16.602 her organizing and her leadership had stalled the project, which 0:15:16.602 --> 0:15:19.002 was impacting the profits. 0:15:18.402 --> 0:15:20.961 Of the Damn Company. We know now from. 0:15:20.802 --> 0:15:23.482 Investigations that have happened and from the court cases that 0:15:23.522 --> 0:15:27.082 have happened so far, that the Damn Company was part 0:15:27.162 --> 0:15:32.602 of an organized criminal enterprise which included Damn executives. It 0:15:32.681 --> 0:15:38.002 included the highest hitmen. It included military trained intermediaries, but 0:15:38.122 --> 0:15:42.962 it also included state officials and armed forces, both by 0:15:43.162 --> 0:15:46.441 acts and by emissions. And by that I mean you 0:15:46.482 --> 0:15:50.562 know sort of counterinsurgency campaign to neutralize her that lasted 0:15:50.602 --> 0:15:54.202 for many years. It included the vogu dis criminal charges, 0:15:54.442 --> 0:15:59.642 included intimidation, It included arming community members against each other, 0:15:59.922 --> 0:16:03.282 It included attempted bribes, all of those things that were 0:16:03.282 --> 0:16:07.562 classic counterinsurgency manuals from the Cold War area. They tried 0:16:07.561 --> 0:16:10.242 with bertain, and when they couldn't silence her, they killed 0:16:10.282 --> 0:16:13.962 her right And this criminal enterprise was involved in all 0:16:14.002 --> 0:16:16.561 of that in all sorts of ways, from the surveillance 0:16:17.042 --> 0:16:20.842 to we know from the evidence that I've seen that 0:16:21.522 --> 0:16:24.642 the Damn Company would learn through informants that they were 0:16:24.681 --> 0:16:29.242 paying in the community, when, for example, protests were being planned, 0:16:29.322 --> 0:16:32.082 or when a road clock was being planned, they would 0:16:32.122 --> 0:16:35.802 simply have to ask the government to send troops, to 0:16:35.882 --> 0:16:40.602 send police there to repress the community's peaceful protests. We 0:16:40.762 --> 0:16:44.722 know that the investigation into her murder at that time, 0:16:45.202 --> 0:16:51.481 the Damn Company was continuing to pay police, investigators, journalists 0:16:52.002 --> 0:16:57.162 to present information that served them. They were receiving images 0:16:57.202 --> 0:17:01.242 from the crime scene themselves right in group chats. And 0:17:01.362 --> 0:17:05.522 we also know that there was a coordinated plan to 0:17:06.042 --> 0:17:10.562 blame the murder on Gusabacastro, who was Butther's friend, who 0:17:10.642 --> 0:17:13.442 happened to be there and who they thought they had killed, 0:17:13.722 --> 0:17:16.922 but who survived by feigning death, and so he became 0:17:17.002 --> 0:17:19.522 the only winners, to blame the murder on him, to 0:17:19.561 --> 0:17:23.162 blame the murder on her colleagues, her organization to blame 0:17:23.202 --> 0:17:26.282 the murder on a romantic partner. All of this was 0:17:26.321 --> 0:17:29.122 coordinated and the Damn Company could not have done that themselves. 0:17:29.121 --> 0:17:30.482 They didn't do themselves right. 0:17:30.522 --> 0:17:35.881 There were elected officials and safe employees at every level, 0:17:36.162 --> 0:17:40.161 from the police to the prosecutor's office, the Attorney General's office, 0:17:40.202 --> 0:17:44.282 to the military to everywhere that were involved either by 0:17:44.321 --> 0:17:46.881 AXE or emissions in this right. But this was an 0:17:47.042 --> 0:17:52.282 organized criminal enterprise that orchestrated the violence against Burla. The 0:17:52.361 --> 0:17:56.642 Lenca community then attempted to cover it up. And which 0:17:56.682 --> 0:17:59.362 is one last thing. I mean the financial institutions involved 0:17:59.361 --> 0:18:03.762 in this. We also know now that two thirds of 0:18:03.802 --> 0:18:07.042 the money, two thirds of the money that was purported 0:18:07.162 --> 0:18:11.722 by two international banks to interto international development banks was 0:18:11.841 --> 0:18:18.802 diverted to pay for the surveillance, the intelligence operations, the informants, 0:18:19.121 --> 0:18:24.681 the murder itself. This armed security and the banks involved, 0:18:24.841 --> 0:18:28.562 well known international banks that an utter failure of their 0:18:28.601 --> 0:18:33.081 own due diligence obligations right and their obligations around human rights. 0:18:33.522 --> 0:18:37.642 Butter wrote to some of these banks back in twenty 0:18:37.841 --> 0:18:42.522 thirteen pleading with them not to fund this damn because 0:18:42.522 --> 0:18:45.482 of the repression that was already being orchestrated. People had 0:18:45.522 --> 0:18:49.561 already been killed, the community had already been terrorized. 0:18:49.242 --> 0:18:50.682 But they went ahead anyway. 0:18:51.121 --> 0:18:54.802 So the financial institutions that should be held accountable for 0:18:54.841 --> 0:18:57.442 their role in this, but it stems from the hired 0:18:57.522 --> 0:19:00.921 hit men, who, by the way, I interviewed in jail, 0:19:01.162 --> 0:19:06.282 and it was honestly so sad. These were kids, poor kids, 0:19:07.601 --> 0:19:10.282 exactly the type of kids that Berter was fighting for 0:19:10.321 --> 0:19:13.201 a better future before. You know, at least two of 0:19:13.242 --> 0:19:15.881 them were planning to use the money they get paid 0:19:16.242 --> 0:19:18.321 to pay a coyote to try and. 0:19:18.321 --> 0:19:19.162 Get to the US. 0:19:19.482 --> 0:19:22.601 Right, not justifying what they did at all, but there's 0:19:23.042 --> 0:19:26.321 also victims of this same sort of structural violence that 0:19:26.402 --> 0:19:27.882 exists in the country. 0:19:27.962 --> 0:19:30.641 Right, Like, ultimately they pulled the trigger, but they're not 0:19:30.962 --> 0:19:34.841 the ones that planned and orchestrated and all that. That's 0:19:34.882 --> 0:19:35.561 so sad. 0:19:36.321 --> 0:19:39.081 Just to underline, the US is sort of roleing this, 0:19:39.282 --> 0:19:42.802 you know, I mean, two of the intermediates had received 0:19:43.042 --> 0:19:46.522 US training at different points of their career. A whistleblower 0:19:46.561 --> 0:19:49.762 I've already mentioned he was in this unitch called Sattrage, 0:19:50.242 --> 0:19:53.881 which had terrorized the Aguan region after the coup, and 0:19:53.922 --> 0:19:57.881 which received lots of US training, and it's worth just 0:19:58.042 --> 0:20:03.002 naming David Castillo. David Castile was the president. 0:20:02.561 --> 0:20:04.321 And founder of the Damn Company. 0:20:04.922 --> 0:20:09.242 He was an informer intelligence officer trained at West Point 0:20:09.361 --> 0:20:12.321 in New York State, and he is the only one 0:20:12.442 --> 0:20:17.081 so far to have been convicted of playing a role 0:20:17.321 --> 0:20:20.441 in masterminding the murder. He was also one of the 0:20:20.442 --> 0:20:24.002 people convicted of fraud regarding the license of the dam 0:20:24.121 --> 0:20:28.922 that was sanctioned in this post coup pro business sort 0:20:28.922 --> 0:20:33.242 of environment without due process, without proper consultations, without prop 0:20:33.321 --> 0:20:37.121 environmental assessments. But yeah, the US made him right, and 0:20:37.282 --> 0:20:41.481 he used these intelligence tactics and strategies to try to 0:20:41.482 --> 0:20:45.201 get close to about her, to infiltrate the community. And 0:20:45.402 --> 0:20:48.802 you know, the US has this long inglorious history of 0:20:48.882 --> 0:20:51.201 training people who go on to commit some of the 0:20:51.242 --> 0:20:54.122 worst sort of human rights abuses in Latin America. 0:20:55.081 --> 0:20:59.762 Totally. You spoke with gustavol Castro recently too. For this piece. 0:20:59.882 --> 0:21:01.602 I'm going to play a little bit of tape from 0:21:01.682 --> 0:21:04.401 him here and then would love to hear more about 0:21:04.482 --> 0:21:05.242 him as well. 0:21:08.601 --> 0:21:30.922 Mondon, which is on. 0:21:14.841 --> 0:21:25.922 And he says, on the one hand, it's just as 0:21:25.922 --> 0:21:28.962 you say, she's enormously missed, but at the same time, 0:21:29.242 --> 0:21:32.242 she's present in so many ways. Even in places where 0:21:32.282 --> 0:21:35.722 they didn't know her, they know her now and she's present. 0:21:36.802 --> 0:21:39.321 Tell us a little bit about him and his work. 0:21:39.442 --> 0:21:40.242 What's his story. 0:21:41.442 --> 0:21:47.321 Yeah, Kristavo Castra is this really highly regarded Mexican environmentalist 0:21:47.442 --> 0:21:51.522 and anti capitalists sort of thinker and organizer. He's the 0:21:51.561 --> 0:21:56.322 founder and director of an organization called Mundos Chiapas Other Worlds, 0:21:56.482 --> 0:21:59.401 and that organization which works very closely with Bertha and 0:21:59.402 --> 0:22:05.321 ba organization. They organize around environmentally destructive mega projects, but 0:22:05.402 --> 0:22:09.121 they also do a lot of work around training and 0:22:09.482 --> 0:22:16.802 helping communities develop local energy alternatives to global capitalists projects. 0:22:17.081 --> 0:22:19.522 And him and Bertha go back years. She had some 0:22:19.601 --> 0:22:22.601 amazing anecdotes about her. They were in Quebec together in 0:22:22.642 --> 0:22:25.802 two thousand and one for the anti globalization protests. They 0:22:25.841 --> 0:22:29.201 did a lot of organizing against NaSTA together, and so 0:22:29.321 --> 0:22:31.242 you know, they'd really been in the trenches, and the 0:22:31.282 --> 0:22:33.962 two organizations would do a little back and forth of 0:22:34.002 --> 0:22:37.282 training each other and sharing experiences and knowledge. 0:22:37.522 --> 0:22:39.762 He was in Live Speranza that night. 0:22:39.841 --> 0:22:43.321 He'd arrived that day having not seen Bersa for quite 0:22:43.361 --> 0:22:47.202 some time. I mean after the two thousand and nine coup, Bertha, 0:22:47.282 --> 0:22:50.161 the whole social movement in Honduras was in this perpetual 0:22:50.202 --> 0:22:54.522 state of crisis, constantly fighting and struggling to stop these 0:22:54.561 --> 0:22:57.882 illegally sanctioned projects. Right, So they hadn't seen each other 0:22:57.882 --> 0:23:00.561 for some years, but he'd gone to live Speranza, and 0:23:00.601 --> 0:23:02.961 he was there because he was going to do several 0:23:03.042 --> 0:23:09.401 days of workshops for Lenka community members on renewable energy projects. 0:23:09.642 --> 0:23:12.282 So he'd got there, they'd stayed up late talking, you know, 0:23:12.321 --> 0:23:14.002 he was staying with her in her house, and they'd 0:23:14.242 --> 0:23:14.962 both gone to bed. 0:23:15.642 --> 0:23:17.922 They knew he was there, but we know. 0:23:18.121 --> 0:23:21.282 From the evidence from the trials and from like various 0:23:21.282 --> 0:23:24.922 sort of phone tapping documents and so forth, that there 0:23:24.922 --> 0:23:27.882 had been reconsistance missions. The ex military sort of officers 0:23:27.882 --> 0:23:31.081 that had been paid into mediries had conducted reconnaissance missions. 0:23:31.162 --> 0:23:32.641 So they knew he was there. 0:23:33.121 --> 0:23:36.322 And in fact, there was four assassins, like one who 0:23:36.361 --> 0:23:39.441 stayed in the car and three who went to the house. 0:23:40.162 --> 0:23:43.722 One shot brother and the other shot and another shot 0:23:43.882 --> 0:23:47.601 was over and they shot him in the face and 0:23:47.922 --> 0:23:50.441 it hit his ear, and so he was bleeding a 0:23:50.442 --> 0:23:53.082 lot because of it. Was like, and so he just stopped. 0:23:53.121 --> 0:23:55.042 He just laid down and pretended to be there, and 0:23:55.081 --> 0:23:58.642 they thought he was dead. So he survived an assassination attempt, right, 0:23:59.081 --> 0:24:01.762 and then stayed still and quiet until he was sure 0:24:01.841 --> 0:24:04.441 everyone had gone, and then tried to get help, and 0:24:04.482 --> 0:24:06.881 he took him hours to raise anybody. If he finally 0:24:06.962 --> 0:24:09.201 managed to get in touch with people in Mexico who 0:24:09.282 --> 0:24:11.482 got in touch with people in Honduras. 0:24:11.321 --> 0:24:12.242 Who sent help. 0:24:12.522 --> 0:24:15.682