Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Andre here, I have some exciting news to share.
Speaker 1: ABC has turned Betrayal Weekly into an eight episode anthology,
Speaker 1: which means each episode features one of your favorite Betrayal
Speaker 1: Weekly stories. You'll get to see the people involved, hear
Speaker 1: from people who have never spoken before, and actually see
Speaker 1: where the story took place. We are so proud and
Speaker 1: excited to share it with you all. It's called Betrayal,
Speaker 1: Secrets and Lies, and you can watch it every Sunday
Speaker 1: at ten pm Eastern Standard time nine pm Central. Please
Speaker 1: check it out. On the morning of October twenty eighth,
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Saskia woke up in the same bed she
Speaker 1: always did. It was the bed she'd shared with her
Speaker 1: husband for years. She felt her regular cotton sheets around her,
Speaker 1: and she opened her eyes to the same white ceiling.
Speaker 1: But this morning was different because the night before, Saskia
Speaker 1: had seen something.
Speaker 2: I told myself, this is really important, and I need
Speaker 2: to remember anything that I can.
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night, she awoke in a
Speaker 1: haze to find her husband on his laptop. His face
Speaker 1: was a glow in the light of his screen. What
Speaker 1: was on that screen, she knew, would change her life forever.
Speaker 2: I was so out of it. It was like I
Speaker 2: was in a dream, but I also knew that this
Speaker 2: was really serious. I told myself, you have to remember this.
Speaker 2: I just knew and I passed back out.
Speaker 1: In the morning, she could still picture it. Flashes of
Speaker 1: one image ran through her mind. It was a window
Speaker 1: into a life her husband never planned for her to see.
Speaker 2: And so I woke up feeling so scared, like petrified.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was looking at, but I
Speaker 2: knew that he was doing something in secret. It felt
Speaker 2: like I was in danger, and I knew that I
Speaker 2: had to confront him and find out what was going on.
Speaker 1: That morning marked the end of a marriage, of a family,
Speaker 1: but with that ending came a new dawn. Saskia didn't
Speaker 1: know it at the time, but in climbing out of
Speaker 1: bed that morning, she was finally climbing out of the dark.
Speaker 2: I told him I needed to talk to him. I
Speaker 2: had his laptop and I told him what I had
Speaker 2: seen the night before. I said, I need you to
Speaker 2: tell me exactly what you're doing, and I'm not going
Speaker 2: to tell the police if you totally come clean. And
Speaker 2: immediately the mask came off.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season five, Episode
Speaker 1: one in the Dark. This season is about a crime
Speaker 1: our team had never heard of before, that is until
Speaker 1: we heard about it from a listener. She was a
Speaker 1: woman in the Midwest, a mom. Over the course of
Speaker 1: a few months and many phone calls, she told us
Speaker 1: the story of what happened to her and the crime
Speaker 1: she described horrified us. We couldn't imagine how anyone could
Speaker 1: do something so cruel to someone they loved. But then
Speaker 1: we heard from another listener, and another and another that
Speaker 1: mom in the Midwest wasn't alone. Dozens of women were
Speaker 1: discovering the same thing. The husbands they knew in the
Speaker 1: light of day were different people when the lights went out.
Speaker 1: One of these women was Saskia in Wood.
Speaker 2: That's a quick ride.
Speaker 1: After getting to know Saskia over the last year, we
Speaker 1: drove down to visit her in Maryland. She welcomed us
Speaker 1: into her home. Today, Saskia has a full, beautiful life.
Speaker 1: She's got a great job, two thriving kids, a house
Speaker 1: full of pets, friends who'd do anything for her. But
Speaker 1: it was a long road to get here. For a while,
Speaker 1: it was difficult to even leave her house.
Speaker 2: Being around people that just had normal lives or happy relationships,
Speaker 2: or we're talking about I don't know what they bought
Speaker 2: at the store. It just wasn't where I was at,
Speaker 2: so it was easier for me to isolate, and everything
Speaker 2: went dark for me.
Speaker 1: Since that morning, seven years ago, Saska has overcome something unimaginable,
Speaker 1: a betrayal that threatened everything.
Speaker 2: It was clear to me that missus Elwood was comatose,
Speaker 2: not asleep, but comatose unconscious.
Speaker 1: It was a betrayal that altered her sense of reality.
Speaker 1: It shattered her ability to feel safe in her own
Speaker 1: home and even in her own body.
Speaker 2: You pretended to support me through my ups and down
Speaker 2: number one, putting on that you were using.
Speaker 1: Me by signing her marriage certificate. Saskia had no idea
Speaker 1: all that she was signing away and that the man
Speaker 1: she was marrying would try to break her.
Speaker 2: You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people.
Speaker 2: You're predator, Michaelvin.
Speaker 1: On our trip down to Maryland, we spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time with Saskia's friends. She's had this same group
Speaker 1: since elementary school. For the most part, they haven't ventured
Speaker 1: far from home, which is Montgomery County, Maryland. About an
Speaker 1: hour outside of DC. This group around Saskia, they are
Speaker 1: her people. They've been there since day one. When we
Speaker 1: asked her friends what they love most about Saskia, so
Speaker 1: many of them pointed to one thing. Saskia laugh.
Speaker 3: That is the most genuine, heartfelt laugh.
Speaker 1: Her laugh alone cracks me up. That's Melissa. And here's
Speaker 1: another friend, Carrie.
Speaker 2: She has this it's like not a cackle because it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: She'll be like, I can't even do it, but I
Speaker 2: think I was close.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 1: Saskia's got a great sense of humor, and when it
Speaker 1: comes to dating, she's always looked for the same in
Speaker 1: other people. Here's Saskia.
Speaker 2: I always liked someone, you know, just making jokes, someone fun, silly, goofy,
Speaker 2: don't like to talk about work when I'm not at work,
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: In her twenties, she liked guys with big laps, big personalities,
Speaker 1: Guys who didn't take themselves too seriously.
Speaker 2: But yeah, usually that came with not being the most
Speaker 2: responsible people in life.
Speaker 1: Some of the men she dated were unemployed. Others had
Speaker 1: a habit of getting into trouble.
Speaker 2: I remember I had one boyfriend who was shoplifting when
Speaker 2: I was with him and we both got in trouble.
Speaker 2: Even though I wasn't shoplifting. He felt terrible. Was like,
Speaker 2: let her go home, and they were like no.
Speaker 1: When she was twenty eight, she met the man who'd
Speaker 1: become the father of her kids. We'll call him Chris.
Speaker 2: We met at a jaw Works concert. It's a reggae band.
Speaker 1: Chris seemed a little more responsible. He'd serve in the army,
Speaker 1: but he was also the life of the party, just
Speaker 1: like the other guys from Saskia's past.
Speaker 2: I thought he was really good looking and funny and silly.
Speaker 2: So we started dating and things went pretty fast after that.
Speaker 1: Within a year they decided to move in together.
Speaker 2: And then literally two weeks after that, I found out
Speaker 2: that I was pregnant.
Speaker 1: Saskia was thrilled. At the time, she was a social
Speaker 1: worker in child welfare and she always knew that she
Speaker 1: wanted children of her own. They had a girl, Alyssa.
Speaker 2: Alyssa was the cutest baby in the world. I'll have
Speaker 2: to show you, guys pictures. You'll die. She was so
Speaker 2: just chunky and so cute.
Speaker 1: She and Chris wanted to make their little family official, and.
Speaker 2: We took her a little stroller to the justice of
Speaker 2: the peace and we got married.
Speaker 1: After that, they had another baby, a boy.
Speaker 2: We were ecstatic fived in the sonogram room because it
Speaker 2: was the first boy on his side of the family.
Speaker 2: And Alyssa loved her little brother. She was always holding
Speaker 2: his hand and pulling in places.
Speaker 1: Being a mom was a dream. But Saskia felt alone
Speaker 1: in her marriage after five years. Chris just didn't feel
Speaker 1: like her person.
Speaker 2: I felt like he didn't care about any of my
Speaker 2: needs or my wants. I've always wanted love, and that
Speaker 2: wasn't it.
Speaker 1: So she asked Chris for a divorce and.
Speaker 2: He basically told me, you can leave.
Speaker 1: He didn't fight for her, even though she had asked
Speaker 1: for the separation. It wasn't easy. They had a year's
Speaker 1: long custody battle.
Speaker 2: It was a very, very painful, difficult divorce. I felt
Speaker 2: very unsteady scared during that period.
Speaker 1: During this time, she leaned on her older sister Marisa.
Speaker 1: Of all the women surrounding Saskia, all the people you'll
Speaker 1: hear from this season, Marisa is Saska's rock. She drove
Speaker 1: Saskia to every one of our interviews, and she sat
Speaker 1: in the next room while we talked just so Saskia
Speaker 1: could feel her support.
Speaker 4: Saskia is my best friend over my lifetime. She's been
Speaker 4: the one person that I can be myself around and
Speaker 4: say anything too, and I feel like that's mutual.
Speaker 1: When Saskia first moved out, she stayed with Marisa. Marisa
Speaker 1: saw her sister cope with the separation.
Speaker 4: She was fragile, you know, definitely wanted it to work
Speaker 4: and did not want to be moving on and becoming
Speaker 4: a single parent to two little kids. I remember her
Speaker 4: crying a lot.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, she was strong herself.
Speaker 4: An apartment, she networked with her friends, she found her resilience.
Speaker 2: I was really.
Speaker 4: Proud of her.
Speaker 1: Here's Sasky again.
Speaker 2: I didn't wait very long after splitting up, getting my
Speaker 2: own apartment before I started looking for somebody. I definitely
Speaker 2: wish that I would have healed from my first marriage,
Speaker 2: but I think that there was just so much work
Speaker 2: to do that I had no idea I had to
Speaker 2: do that. I felt like I would find the answers
Speaker 2: in another person.
Speaker 1: Marisa could see how important it was to her sister
Speaker 1: to find a partner.
Speaker 4: Companionship is part of what gives us solace through hard times,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, not social interaction and being
Speaker 4: loved by somebody. It's like suvin. So I feel like
Speaker 4: she's always wanted that in her life.
Speaker 1: But Saskia knew if she wanted a real partner, she
Speaker 1: might have to go for something different, to look beyond
Speaker 1: her usual boys.
Speaker 2: So my sister helped me make a profile a match.
Speaker 1: Marisa pushed her to look for someone driven, established in
Speaker 1: their career.
Speaker 4: I was encouraging her to be choosy. She's always had
Speaker 4: professional careers and she's always been really great at her
Speaker 4: job because of her empathy and her compassion and her
Speaker 4: you know, all of those strengths that she has.
Speaker 1: Saska gave match her best shot. She went on a
Speaker 1: few dates, but no one impressed her.
Speaker 2: I was about to throw in the towel and just say,
Speaker 2: I don't feel like doing this anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's when she found Mike.
Speaker 2: His pictures seemed really sweet. There was one of them
Speaker 2: with a dog, which of course tugs at my heart,
Speaker 2: and then he had picture of him with his two daughters.
Speaker 1: He was in the midst of a divorce too. He
Speaker 1: was a single parent, a girl dad, and he had
Speaker 1: a good job.
Speaker 2: He worked for Bank of America. He was a vice
Speaker 2: president of marketing.
Speaker 1: Mike was the quintessential good guy, the safe choice, and
Speaker 1: safe was exactly what Saskia was looking for.
Speaker 2: My wish in life was to have true love and
Speaker 2: to have someone to be a good step dad to
Speaker 2: my kids, and Mike seemed like the perfect guy.
Speaker 1: Saskia was ready to give up on dating when one
Speaker 1: profile caught her eye. Mike looked Jennal. He was a
Speaker 1: girl dad with a kind smile and kind eyes.
Speaker 2: So I think I waved, winked whatever you do, and
Speaker 2: he responded back, and then we started communicating and he
Speaker 2: asked for a date pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: The first date was casual. They met at a brewery.
Speaker 2: And we were gonna have a couple drinks at the bar.
Speaker 1: But that night the bar was packed, so they sat.
Speaker 2: Us at the most uncomfortable, awkward twosome spot in the restaurant.
Speaker 1: Immediately, one thing was clear.
Speaker 2: He was not the type of person that I usually
Speaker 2: go for at all. He was a little bit nerdy.
Speaker 2: He had a glass of wine and he was like
Speaker 2: staring his wine, which I thought was weird. He talked
Speaker 2: a lot about his job and things like that. Just
Speaker 2: wasn't as joki as I'm used to.
Speaker 1: Saskia was used to guys who would crush a few
Speaker 1: beers in the first hour, guys who would have one
Speaker 1: eye on the game the whole date. Mike in his
Speaker 1: button down shirt and skinny jeans swirling his wine was anything.
Speaker 2: But I just kind of wanted to get through the date.
Speaker 2: And I remember afterwards telling my sister like he was nice,
Speaker 2: he's successful. Everything on paper sounds good, but I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if it was there. And I remember my sister saying,
Speaker 2: if he's not your usual type, that could be a
Speaker 2: good thing.
Speaker 4: I actually encouraged her to go on a second date
Speaker 4: with him. I said, some guys are more second date material.
Speaker 4: Maybe him being timid on the first date means he's
Speaker 4: a regular guy, you know, Not everybody has to be
Speaker 4: a huge personality off the gate.
Speaker 1: Saska gave him another shot, and in round two, Mike
Speaker 1: started to grow on her.
Speaker 2: We were going to meet for a second date, and
Speaker 2: I think I had something come up with the kids,
Speaker 2: so he suggested that we have a phone date and
Speaker 2: grab a glass of wine and we can talk. I'm
Speaker 2: not a phone person and it wasn't something that I
Speaker 2: thought that I would enjoy, but I thought it was
Speaker 2: really cute and endearing.
Speaker 1: By their third date, they both were a little more
Speaker 1: at ease. They got sushi, and the date went well
Speaker 1: enough that Saskia brought him out with her coworkers.
Speaker 2: My friend was having a little birthday get together, and
Speaker 2: we drove over to the bar and everyone's just having
Speaker 2: fun drinking and taking shots.
Speaker 1: And after the party, Saskia took my comb. He slept over.
Speaker 2: In the morning. We ended up being intimate and I
Speaker 2: was like, I can get with this. I could do this.
Speaker 2: He was in really good shape. It felt like we
Speaker 2: had really good chemistry. It wasn't wild, it wasn't crazy.
Speaker 2: It just felt good.
Speaker 1: She started to see Mike in a new light. He
Speaker 1: made her feel safe and.
Speaker 2: Comfortable, and then it just kind of picked up after that.
Speaker 1: After a month of dating, it was time for Mike
Speaker 1: to meet Saskia's friend group. This wasn't an easy crowd
Speaker 1: to jump into, after all, they've known each other forever.
Speaker 1: Here's another one of Saskia's friends, Bridget.
Speaker 2: We just keep it real.
Speaker 1: We've known each other so long that we're not going
Speaker 1: to sugarcoat anything. If we see a red flag.
Speaker 3: We're going to be like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: You're an idiot, Like, let.
Speaker 1: Me tell you what I see. Bridget's a tough critic,
Speaker 1: and knowing all that Saskia had been through, she wasn't
Speaker 1: sure if she was going to like Mike when she
Speaker 1: just got out of this one marriage. I was very
Speaker 1: protective and I thought the world of him. I thought
Speaker 1: he was great, and I was like, finally, she deserves this,
Speaker 1: she deserves to be happy. Here's another friend, Heather.
Speaker 5: I liked him right away. I thought he was really nice.
Speaker 5: He seemed kind, he seemed gentle. I just thought he
Speaker 5: was put together.
Speaker 1: Marisa, Saskia's sister, liked him too.
Speaker 2: Normal.
Speaker 4: Guy seems even keeled. He's not overly showy trying to
Speaker 4: He's being polite, he's being respectful. Okay, you know, maybe this.
Speaker 2: Guy will work.
Speaker 1: With her friends and sister's approval, any doubt Saskia had
Speaker 1: about Mike went away.
Speaker 2: Everybody from the get go thought that he was just
Speaker 2: a catch.
Speaker 1: Mike was a great boyfriend. He took Saskia on nice dates,
Speaker 1: basketball games, fancy dinners, massages.
Speaker 2: He had plenty of money for us to do nice things.
Speaker 2: And I made me feel really special and important, that
Speaker 2: he wanted to do these fun things with me and
Speaker 2: that I was worth that to him.
Speaker 1: But right as Mike started to get serious, Saskia pulled away.
Speaker 1: She was still in the middle of her custody battle.
Speaker 1: She didn't have room for one more thing on her plate.
Speaker 2: There was one time where I was having like a
Speaker 2: breakdown about stuff with the kid's dad, and I just said,
Speaker 2: I can't deal with you right now, like I'm going
Speaker 2: through too much, and he was like, no, I'm coming over.
Speaker 2: Let me help you through this.
Speaker 1: That night he went over. He wanted to be there.
Speaker 2: He said, I will never hurt you. I will always
Speaker 2: be here for you. Don't run away, let me help you.
Speaker 1: He showed up for her. She'd never had that before.
Speaker 2: From then on out, Mike was teams Askia.
Speaker 1: A teammate, a partner, someone that was on her side.
Speaker 2: He helped me to feel like my life was going
Speaker 2: to go on and that I could have a positive
Speaker 2: future despite what happened with my ex.
Speaker 1: As friends and family got to know Mike, they saw
Speaker 1: just how much he had to offer. Here's her friend Megan.
Speaker 1: He was like a knight and shining armor. I mean,
Speaker 1: she dated guys without a job.
Speaker 6: And then you get Mike and he's like vice president
Speaker 6: at the bank and he was just like this stand
Speaker 6: up guy with a great job and two kids.
Speaker 3: I mean, it looked great.
Speaker 1: At the time. Megan was actually married to one of
Speaker 1: Saskia's older brothers, and her brothers didn't really get Mike.
Speaker 3: They thought he was like a dork.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: They watched football, play cards, drink beer, and Mike was
Speaker 6: like this, you know, yoga guy who ate granola.
Speaker 1: The nerdy corporate type stuck out in this crowd.
Speaker 6: I mean, he was just different, and that's what every
Speaker 6: one of us thought was a good thing.
Speaker 1: Saskia needed different. Slowly, Mike was integrating into her world
Speaker 1: and she liked that.
Speaker 2: He was everything that I thought would be good for me,
Speaker 2: good for my kids. And I did fall in love
Speaker 2: with him. It wasn't like the boom you get hit
Speaker 2: with this love from the beginning, right. It grew when
Speaker 2: I paid that I felt like was a healthy pace.
Speaker 1: As their love grew, so did sask his comfort level.
Speaker 1: She could let her guard down.
Speaker 2: There was one time where we played strip bowling or something,
Speaker 2: I mean something like that. It sounded fun at the time.
Speaker 2: And it was kind of fun, especially because I never
Speaker 2: had that with my first husband. I didn't think he
Speaker 2: desired me at all. So here this was and it
Speaker 2: felt like, wow, like this person that I'm gonna be with,
Speaker 2: Like we do like desire each other and we can
Speaker 2: have fun and it is sexual, and like that's good
Speaker 2: because it shouldn't be just a roommate situation.
Speaker 1: When he tried to spice things up, he was respectful
Speaker 1: of her boundaries.
Speaker 2: I remember one time he took a picture of me
Speaker 2: and showed me how good my butt looked or something
Speaker 2: like that, and I explicitly asked him, what are you
Speaker 2: doing with that picture? And he's like, well, of course,
Speaker 2: I'm going to so erase it. I would never show
Speaker 2: it to anybody.
Speaker 1: She had every reason to trust him. They loved each other.
Speaker 2: When he would go to work in the morning, he
Speaker 2: would always leave me like a note on my pillow.
Speaker 1: Saski has shared some of those notes with us. Here's
Speaker 1: a voice actor reading one.
Speaker 7: Half of me wishes that we would have met ten
Speaker 7: plus years ago, just because I think of all the
Speaker 7: time we would have had. But then I realized it
Speaker 7: just wasn't.
Speaker 2: Meant to happen.
Speaker 7: Back then I am finally at a place in my
Speaker 7: life where I can embrace who I am, and I
Speaker 7: just feel like you are the other half, the one
Speaker 7: who makes me complete. It is not easy to open
Speaker 7: up so much because you open yourself up to being hurt.
Speaker 2: But I don't care.
Speaker 7: I will do anything for you to know how I feel.
Speaker 1: After years of feeling alone in her first marriage, Mike's
Speaker 1: words meant a lot. He made it clear how much
Speaker 1: he loved her. Whenever he traveled for work, we.
Speaker 2: Always had a nice, sweet kiss before he left and
Speaker 2: a big hug, and we would talk every night, and
Speaker 2: he would always bring me something from his trips, like
Speaker 2: a bracelet or a little trinket.
Speaker 1: But there was one final test the relationship had to pass,
Speaker 1: introducing their kids. At the time, Mike's daughters were eleven
Speaker 1: and seven, Saska's daughter was five and her son was three.
Speaker 1: They set aside a whole Saturday for the kids to
Speaker 1: finally meet.
Speaker 2: We met at Dave and Busters in the mall. I
Speaker 2: brought my kids, he brought his kids, and his daughter
Speaker 2: grabbed my daughter's hand and they were walking around together
Speaker 2: and just so excited to show each other their favorite games.
Speaker 2: And we had them pick out prizes at the end,
Speaker 2: and that was their first meeting and they basically were
Speaker 2: best friends after that.
Speaker 1: From that point on, they began hanging out more and more,
Speaker 1: all six of them.
Speaker 2: Shortly after that, we were at my apartment and we
Speaker 2: had a power outage, no electricity, and didn't know when
Speaker 2: we were going to get electricity turned on. So we
Speaker 2: all made a trip to Mike's apartment and so we
Speaker 2: had a little like a family bonding there and it
Speaker 2: was really cute. We had to like figure out who's
Speaker 2: going to sleep wear in this little two bedroom apartment.
Speaker 2: It turned into a really fun time.
Speaker 1: Mike's daughters started to feel like her own. As co parents,
Speaker 1: Mike and Saskia made a good team. They balanced each
Speaker 1: other out.
Speaker 2: He was kind of more the organized, practical one. I
Speaker 2: was more the social coordinator and the nurturing, fun mom,
Speaker 2: and so he relied on me for that, and like
Speaker 2: I relied on him for saying like Okay, it's time
Speaker 2: to go to bed or those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Saskia always loved my their hood, and she loved having
Speaker 1: a packed house.
Speaker 2: I liked having the four kids together. It was like
Speaker 2: your breakfast is like a little conveyor belt. I liked it.
Speaker 2: I liked being a mom of foeign we were a family.
Speaker 2: I wish I could say that we had a happy
Speaker 2: end to our story, but that wasn't reality.
Speaker 1: A year into dating, Mike was staying at Saska's apartment
Speaker 1: most nights.
Speaker 2: And then my lease was getting ready to be up,
Speaker 2: and Mike and I both felt like it was just
Speaker 2: the natural progression to a place together. So we started
Speaker 2: looking and was really exciting.
Speaker 1: They moved into a townhouse. His daughters started sleeping over too,
Speaker 1: whenever they weren't with their mom. Marisa felt like her
Speaker 1: sister had found the one.
Speaker 4: With him and her balance. She did seem to be
Speaker 4: like kind of becoming her best self. They seem like
Speaker 4: aod partners. She brought the energy and the fawn and
Speaker 4: he brought stability, and you know, it was a good match.
Speaker 1: At the time, Marisa was going through a lot. She
Speaker 1: and her husband, Ronnie were trying to get pregnant, and
Speaker 1: Saska could see it was weighing on her.
Speaker 2: It was a lot of hope and disappointment regarding my
Speaker 2: sister's journey to have a child. She had so many
Speaker 2: almosts where they were trying to do IVF. She would
Speaker 2: be so excited, and a few weeks down the line,
Speaker 2: you know, we get the bad news, and I could
Speaker 2: just see that my sister was not going to be
Speaker 2: fulfilled without having her own family and having her own kids.
Speaker 2: So then, after the last time that they told her
Speaker 2: she didn't have any more tries with the IVF, I
Speaker 2: just said, you know, I would love to give it
Speaker 2: a try.
Speaker 1: Saskia offered to carry Marisa's child. For Marisa, accepting this
Speaker 1: offer felt like giving up her dream of carrying a
Speaker 1: baby herself, but then again, this could be our only option.
Speaker 1: Here's Marisa.
Speaker 4: One of the things that Sascio said to me was,
Speaker 4: you're comparing the wrong things. You're comparing carrying your own
Speaker 4: child with what is possible, and carrying her own child
Speaker 4: is not possible. She knew what to push me, and
Speaker 4: that was a big eye opener, like, oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: still mourning a loss instead of looking at what I
Speaker 4: can gain here.
Speaker 1: After a lot of conversations, Marisa was in and Saskia
Speaker 1: was excited to carry her baby. Of course, it was
Speaker 1: a big decision. It would mean carrying another man's child
Speaker 1: and it would change her body significantly. So Saskia brought
Speaker 1: it to Mike.
Speaker 2: I discussed it with him. He said that he was
Speaker 2: on board and that he thought it was a really loving,
Speaker 2: special thing to do. I also talked with the kids
Speaker 2: about it, you know, told them we were trying to
Speaker 2: have a baby for Marisa, the baby might be in
Speaker 2: my tummy, and we had this whole Kangaroo book that
Speaker 2: we read to them, and I don't know that they
Speaker 2: totally understood, but once everybody was kind of on board,
Speaker 2: we started the process.
Speaker 4: I think it made her happy to be able to
Speaker 4: do it, and everybody was so amazed by what she
Speaker 4: was doing. So you know, you're getting a ton of
Speaker 4: positive feedback and you're pregnant, and everybody loves pregnant people.
Speaker 4: I think it was a good, happy phase for her.
Speaker 1: Still, pregnancy isn't all smiles, and Mike was there every
Speaker 1: step of the world making things as comfortable as possible.
Speaker 2: For Saskia, having a baby at thirty six as opposed
Speaker 2: to twenty nine was different, so I'd have more like
Speaker 2: aches and pains. He would give me massages every night.
Speaker 2: He was there by my side for whatever was important
Speaker 2: to me and my family also, and I think it
Speaker 2: brought him closer to my family. They thought, what a
Speaker 2: great guy that he's not worried about how this would
Speaker 2: affect him, that he's going to be there for you.
Speaker 1: Seeing him step up during the pregnancy deepened Marisa's respect
Speaker 1: for Mike.
Speaker 4: I was grateful for Mike when they were together and
Speaker 4: he agreed to participate in that process. I thought that
Speaker 4: was amazing. I didn't think a lot of men would
Speaker 4: do that, and he was very supportive. Yeah, we called
Speaker 4: him one on the team.
Speaker 1: When Saskia gave birth, Mike was right by her side.
Speaker 2: He was there at the end of the delivery room bed,
Speaker 2: so he was like the perfect partner to go through.
Speaker 1: This with nurses handed the baby to Marisa. Saskia watched
Speaker 1: with love her sister was finally a mom.
Speaker 2: I just thought he was so beautiful and I was
Speaker 2: so proud, and I could just see my sister like
Speaker 2: so proud, like this is my baby.
Speaker 4: She gave me the greatest gift in the world. And
Speaker 4: I think she did that because of who she is,
Speaker 4: not because of any kind of sense of obligation or
Speaker 4: like I need to offer this. I think she just
Speaker 4: felt my pain and wanted to step up for me,
Speaker 4: and I think that is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: After the pregnancy, Marisa and Saskia were closer than ever,
Speaker 1: and Saskia fell closer to Mike too. The care he'd
Speaker 1: given her confirmed what she already knew. Mike was a
Speaker 1: real partner. At this point, they'd been together for three years,
Speaker 1: but the two of them never talked about getting married.
Speaker 2: Neither of us were like gung ho looking to this
Speaker 2: relationship for a marriage. We didn't know if that was
Speaker 2: like the end result that we were looking for. We
Speaker 2: knew we wanted to be together, but as our families
Speaker 2: got really close, it didn't feel right to say this
Speaker 2: is my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: So Saskia told Mike how she was feeling.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, it would really it would
Speaker 2: be nice to be engaged. It would be nice to
Speaker 2: be able to say this is my fiance. We don't
Speaker 2: have to get married anytime soon, but it would.
Speaker 1: Be nice, And Mike thought it would be nice too.
Speaker 1: With engagement on the brain, Saskia and Mike took a
Speaker 1: trip to Amsterdam. They wanted to visit Saskia's relatives. Her
Speaker 1: mom's side is Dutch, and a vacation felt like the
Speaker 1: perfect way to celebrate the end of the pregnancy.
Speaker 2: We went to the Heineken Brewery, walked around, got nutella coffees,
Speaker 2: and went to the smoke shops and I loved it
Speaker 2: because there was like cats in some of those smoke
Speaker 2: shops just walking around. I was like, this is my
Speaker 2: happy place. This is the best.
Speaker 1: They even went at the Red Light District.
Speaker 2: It felt like something that we were doing just because
Speaker 2: we were like, went in Rome, went to this one
Speaker 2: place they give you like a ticket and there's a
Speaker 2: hole that you look through in a wall. So I
Speaker 2: looked and he's looking at a different hole and it
Speaker 2: was two people having sex. It was the least exciting.
Speaker 2: They had zero anything on their faces, like they were
Speaker 2: just like having sex, And I was like, what the hell?
Speaker 2: Who wants to watch that?
Speaker 1: The trip came and went, and despite conversations they had
Speaker 1: in the lead up to the trip, Saskia returned home
Speaker 1: without a ring.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of really cool moments or I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that could have been a nice engagement opportunity. So after
Speaker 2: we got back, everyone was just where's her ring? Like
Speaker 2: my brother was like, what's going on? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Mike kind of teasing him about it, and so I
Speaker 2: think that put in his in his head.
Speaker 1: Shortly after that came Saska's birthday.
Speaker 2: We went to this restaurant with a bunch of my
Speaker 2: friends and we were sitting outside and I remember I
Speaker 2: was like talking with Bridget and she asked me about
Speaker 2: the trip or something. I said, look, I am about
Speaker 2: ready to just be pissed off because he knows we
Speaker 2: wanted to get engaged. And she was like, Saskia, just
Speaker 2: don't bring it up today. Just give it another month
Speaker 2: or something. Just be patient. Later that night, we were
Speaker 2: in the bedroom and I was like getting ready to
Speaker 2: go to bed, and he gives me this little book
Speaker 2: and it's saying like all these things about our relationship,
Speaker 2: all the stuff that he likes about me, and like
Speaker 2: he personalized it. And on the last page of the
Speaker 2: book it said, will you marry me? And I was
Speaker 2: like what? And then I looked up and he had
Speaker 2: the ring and it was a ring that I wanted.
Speaker 2: It was a tanza night. I didn't want a diamond.
Speaker 2: It was beautiful, you know. We hugged and kissed and
Speaker 2: I said, it's about time. Yeah, And so it was
Speaker 2: really exciting.
Speaker 1: Sasaki and Mike were happy to be engaged, but they
Speaker 1: didn't feel a need to rush to the altar or
Speaker 1: even get to the altar at all. They'd both already
Speaker 1: been married once before being engaged was enough.
Speaker 2: I would have kept him my forever fiance. There was
Speaker 2: no like, okay, now, let's play in a wedding. We
Speaker 2: were okay with taking our time. And it was that
Speaker 2: way for about six months, maybe a year even, and
Speaker 2: then it seemed like all of a sudden, he was
Speaker 2: in a hurry to have us pick a place, pick
Speaker 2: a date. He was very insistent upon it. Once he
Speaker 2: set that in motion, we started going to like different
Speaker 2: venues and that started happening pretty quickly. And then we
Speaker 2: decided on the Waverley Mansion and it was just a
Speaker 2: really beautiful venue.
Speaker 1: With most of the money going towards the venue, Saskia
Speaker 1: tried to save wherever she could.
Speaker 2: Heather was making cookie favors for are there really two
Speaker 2: love Birds? She's really good at making fancy cookies. I
Speaker 2: borrowed Bridget's dress, which she was happy about because she
Speaker 2: spent way too much money on it and only got
Speaker 2: to wear it once.
Speaker 1: Finally, the wedding day arrived, I got.
Speaker 2: Up, went to Nordstrom to have my makeup done, bought
Speaker 2: some makeup, you know how you have to do that.
Speaker 2: My sister's friend did my hair, all the girl's hair,
Speaker 2: and then we all trucked to the Waverley Mansion had
Speaker 2: the bride's suite there.
Speaker 1: The day was as much about the four kids as
Speaker 1: it was Mike and Saskia.
Speaker 2: Mike had this idea to do a sand ceremony where
Speaker 2: basically everybody picks a color of sand. My son pick blue,
Speaker 2: the girls picked purple and pink. Mike and I each
Speaker 2: had a color, and everybody pours sand into this glass
Speaker 2: vase and just symbolizes the family coming together, merging into
Speaker 2: one family.
Speaker 1: Megan, her sister in law, remembers it as a beautiful wedding.
Speaker 6: She seemed so happy and we were all happy for her,
Speaker 6: and we were happy for the kids that they had
Speaker 6: two new step sisters and we had new nieces. We
Speaker 6: were just so happy to integrate them into our family
Speaker 6: and they was official now, so it was just a
Speaker 6: great day for everyone.
Speaker 1: But that wasn't how everyone felt. Here's Heather. The entire night,
Speaker 1: she seemed off sitting in her chair watching Saskia at
Speaker 1: the altar. Heather wanted to be happy for her friend,
Speaker 1: but to her, Saskia didn't seem happy at all.
Speaker 5: The entire time that Sasa's up and they're doing the ceremony,
Speaker 5: there far apart.
Speaker 1: There was no handholding, no loving gaze.
Speaker 3: She looked so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: The thing is, Heather knew something the other friends didn't.
Speaker 1: The night before the wedding, Saskia had gone over to
Speaker 1: Heather's house to pick something up, but Saskia didn't seem
Speaker 1: like herself.
Speaker 5: She seemed unnerved, and I said, what's going on? And
Speaker 5: I thought maybe she was just nervous about the wedding,
Speaker 5: she said, and I can't remember. It was like the
Speaker 5: very night before, or some night previous to the night
Speaker 5: she came over. She said that her and Mike had
Speaker 5: been out drinking and they went back to the house
Speaker 5: and they started having sex, and she saw the laptop
Speaker 5: was open and there were people on the screen.
Speaker 1: For Saskia, the incident was blurry.
Speaker 2: We were in bed. I can't tell you what was
Speaker 2: happening before after, but it was literally like a snapshot in.
Speaker 1: Time in a fog. She saw a mic on his
Speaker 1: laptop and on his screen there were two people, and.
Speaker 2: I didn't know if it was like a movie or
Speaker 2: whether he knew them. And I remember being really confused
Speaker 2: and saying, like, what's going on?
Speaker 1: He turned to her for a moment, and just for
Speaker 1: a moment, she slipped into a different reality.
Speaker 2: And he said, Oh, say hi.
Speaker 1: Coming up this season on Betrayal.
Speaker 3: People were paying to see this go down. Saskia had
Speaker 3: absolutely no idea what was happening to her.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to be safe. That's your home, that's your husband.
Speaker 1: For resources on sexual violence, visit RAIN dot org slash betrayal.
Speaker 1: That's r AI n N dot org slash betrayal. You
Speaker 1: can also get free confidential twenty four to seven support
Speaker 1: through rain's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just text Hope to
Speaker 1: six four six seventy three or call one eight hundred
Speaker 1: six pipes hope. You are not alone. If you would
Speaker 1: like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want
Speaker 1: to tell us your story, email us at Betrayalpod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That is Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com,
Speaker 1: or follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. To access
Speaker 1: additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join
Speaker 1: our substack at Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful
Speaker 1: for your support. One way to show support is by
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Speaker 1: A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal
Speaker 1: is the production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass
Speaker 1: Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is
Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and
Speaker 1: produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Caitlin Golden.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is kerriehrt Men. Our story editor is
Speaker 1: Monique Leboord. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are
Speaker 1: Olivia Hewitt and Leah Jablow. Production management by Kristin Melcurrie.
Speaker 1: Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Speaker 1: Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Voice acting by Steve Lolinsky, Audio
Speaker 1: editing by Tanner Robbins, with additional editing and mixing by
Speaker 1: Matt Delvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family,
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's
Speaker 1: theme is composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by
Speaker 1: mob Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.