1
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I welcome to Stuff

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:18,159
Speaker 1: I Never Told You, a production of I Heartradio and

3
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 1: for today's classic. Unfortunately, we thought we should bring back

4
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 1: our episode we did on grooming and what that looks

5
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 1: like and how it can manifest because a lot of

6
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 1: stuff is happening in the news right now and there's

7
00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,920
Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about it, and we are talking

8
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: about doing We're going to come back and do a

9
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 1: whole episode in March probably, but soon soon, but in

10
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 1: the meantime, we did want to bring back this classic

11
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: to help get you prepared.

12
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 2: We need to do a review.

13
00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 3: We need to do a review.

14
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,400
Speaker 1: So yes, please enjoy this classic episode.

15
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,400
Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and you're listening to Stuff I

16
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:18,160
Speaker 3: Never Told You. Today we are.

17
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,920
Speaker 1: Once again joined by my good friend Samantha. Hello, Samantha, Hello,

18
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:28,320
Speaker 1: thank you. Yep you are and you will be back

19
00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: for this the series that we're doing also.

20
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: Forever sitting in the corner staring at everyone.

21
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 3: Yes, doing the grudge.

22
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

23
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

24
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,959
Speaker 1: This is the second in our series examining trauma and

25
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,880
Speaker 1: sexual assault in the era of Me Too. And you

26
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:48,559
Speaker 1: are a great person to bring in for this because

27
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 1: you do you have a history and social work.

28
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 2: That is my career. Thus far, thus far, thus far.

29
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 4: We put that as a dot dot dot.

30
00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 2: I'm Drincken there. You know.

31
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 1: I love including those because it just adds this layer

32
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 1: of mystery and intrigues.

33
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 2: What is she going to do next?

34
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 3: Dot dot?

35
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 4: I'm going to stay at home and just eat and

36
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 4: watch TV. Can someone pay me to do that?

37
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 3: I think there is Yeah, I think you can get

38
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 3: paid for that.

39
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,799
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's very competitive. Oh, we're going to research

40
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 2: this in a bit.

41
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's immediately.

42
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:27,239
Speaker 1: Thing we're doing immediately have goals, so quick trigger warning.

43
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 1: We are talking about grooming and what a what exactly

44
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:39,400
Speaker 1: that entails, including specific methods and purposes, and just to

45
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: kind of prep everyone, to prime everyone. The general definition

46
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,240
Speaker 1: of grooming is the act of preparing or training someone

47
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 1: for particular purpose or activity, and oftentimes it involves someone

48
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 1: of power, mentoring, training, or intimidating another individual. But in

49
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: this conversation, we're mostly going to be talking about it

50
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 1: in terms of abuse and specifically trigger warnings. We're going

51
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,840
Speaker 1: to be talking about you sexual assault, molestation and grooming,

52
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 1: sexual grooming, sexual exportation, human trafficking, bestiality, pedophilia. Most of

53
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,800
Speaker 1: these were not going to go in depth on, but

54
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,400
Speaker 1: if it's something that is triggering are difficult for you,

55
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,799
Speaker 1: please put your own health and well being first. And

56
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 1: this is something that several of you have written in

57
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 1: about and that's been in the news quite a lot

58
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: lately because as we record this, the R Kelly thing,

59
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 1: the documentary is really big in the news cycle and

60
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 1: grooming is a part of that conversation.

61
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 2: Hashtag mute r Kelly.

62
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 3: Hashtag mute r Kelly.

63
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: If we look at this whole picture of abuse or

64
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: of choosing or preparing a victim, grooming is often the

65
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,320
Speaker 1: first step or a quick second step.

66
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 3: I suppose a study that.

67
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 1: Came out recently found most people couldn't identify signs of grooming.

68
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,320
Speaker 1: So hopefully this episode that we're having can make us

69
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: all a little more vigilant and aware. I know I

70
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 1: learned a lot from researching this one, you.

71
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 4: Know, any I was going to add to that that

72
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,479
Speaker 4: it is often times hard to see in a victim,

73
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 4: which is why a lot of the sites you'll see

74
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,000
Speaker 4: and a lot of the statistics is to say to

75
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 4: focus on the perpetrator, you'll see their actions including the

76
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 4: online perpetrators. They are specifics to that which we won't

77
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,480
Speaker 4: necessarily go into, but that is something to think on too.

78
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's start, as I like to do, with

79
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 1: the definition what is grooming? Author and counselor Eric Marlow

80
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: Garrison defines it like this, Grooming is the slow, methodical,

81
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: and intentional process of manipulating a person to a point

82
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 1: where they can be victimized. After the perpetrators find their targets,

83
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,360
Speaker 1: they gained trust, and move in from there. The US

84
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: Department of Justice Office of Sex Offenders Sentencing defines it

85
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 1: as grooming is a method used by offenders that involves

86
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,279
Speaker 1: building trust with a child and the adults around a

87
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,360
Speaker 1: child in an effort to gain access to and time

88
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: alone with him or her. In extreme cases, offenders may

89
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,160
Speaker 1: use threats and physical force to sexually assault or abuse

90
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: a child. More common, though, are subtle approaches designed to

91
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: build relationships with families. The offender may assume a caring role,

92
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: befriend the child, or even exploit their position of trust

93
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 1: and authority to groom the child and or the child's family.

94
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,800
Speaker 1: These individuals intentionally build relationships with the adults around a

95
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 1: child or seek out a child who is less supervised

96
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,840
Speaker 1: by adults in their lives. This increases the likelihood that

97
00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: the offender's time with a child is welcomed and encouraged.

98
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,839
Speaker 1: So we are talking a lot about children and grooming

99
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,360
Speaker 1: of children in this episode, but it can happen to anyone.

100
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,479
Speaker 4: Right, And I think we're going to talk a little more,

101
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 4: but you and I discuss the fact that when it

102
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,000
Speaker 4: comes to domestic violence, that is a type of grooming

103
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 4: as well, because oftentimes they will seek women who have

104
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,599
Speaker 4: already been through specific situations traumas in their life, maybe

105
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 4: have grown up with domestic violence in their lives, and

106
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 4: then they kind of hone in on these women and

107
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:25,400
Speaker 4: specifically pick them because they are easier victims. So obviously

108
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 4: that has a lot to do with sexual abuse.

109
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,359
Speaker 1: And it is often the precursor to the crime of

110
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,600
Speaker 1: sexual abuse. But sexual grooming is a standalone crime in itself,

111
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,320
Speaker 1: but it is hard to prove and you'll see why

112
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: that is in a minute.

113
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,120
Speaker 4: So as we're talking about the fact that, yes, it

114
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,159
Speaker 4: can be specifically to sexual abuse of children, we're going

115
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 4: to talk about all the facts about domestic violence, as

116
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,720
Speaker 4: I had previously said, but also if you look at

117
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 4: gangs and cults, they kind of.

118
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 2: Do the same thing.

119
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 4: They look for individuals who lack family and therefore need

120
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 4: something to hold onto, and they groom these people into

121
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,160
Speaker 4: mentoring and oftentimes involved a way. So if you look

122
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 4: at gang members and you look at the fact that

123
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 4: a lot of teenagers have been recruited for lack of

124
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 4: better terms, they are looking for by the family figures

125
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 4: and this.

126
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 2: Is where they go to seek it.

127
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 4: And on top of that, they're being taught how to

128
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 4: make money or how to do things without going the

129
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 4: hard route as in like education or building family trust, counseling.

130
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,760
Speaker 4: In all of that, it kind of pulls away from

131
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 4: that and they think this is what they want. Same

132
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 4: thing as pedophiles. It's not just a pedophilic act, but

133
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 4: something done out of dominance. And honestly, while we're talking

134
00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 4: about pedophiles, let's be specific as the differences of pedophiles

135
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 4: and child molesters, because I think that's not talked about enough.

136
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 4: Pedophiles can be sexually aroused by previous best children and

137
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 4: oftentimes form emotional attachment to their victims. If you look

138
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,120
Speaker 4: at Nambla as an example, they really feel like this

139
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 4: is another form of sexuality that have being a relationship

140
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 4: from a young boy where an older man should not

141
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 4: be stopped if it's gentle, and they truly believe that

142
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,280
Speaker 4: this is a relationship that people are not willing to see,

143
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 4: which when we talk about the fact that children do

144
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,720
Speaker 4: not have the option to consent because they are not

145
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 4: able to say no and understand why they can say no,

146
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 4: which is also an important part about having parents teach

147
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 4: their children it's okay to not to be touched, not

148
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 4: to be tickled, and say I don't want to hug you,

149
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 4: which is very important that we talked about more and

150
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 4: more as of late, and I know a lot of

151
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 4: women and a lot of parents have become very aware

152
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 4: of this and start to teach their children these things.

153
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,320
Speaker 4: But Nambla has this whole fixation that I'm in love,

154
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 4: he's in love with me, and I can take care

155
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 4: of them, which is disturbing on his own as where

156
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 4: child molestors and abusers use child for sexual stimulation and

157
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,839
Speaker 4: could be more about opportunity than need. So when I

158
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,560
Speaker 4: say that, I often see Pierre and peer victim so

159
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 4: youth on youth crimes where youth will actually sexual abuse

160
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 4: another youth may be similar to their age, and not

161
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,840
Speaker 4: because they prefer that child, but because it is an opportunity,

162
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 4: and they're still considered child molestor and a sex offender

163
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 4: out on top.

164
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:09,560
Speaker 2: Of that.

165
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,439
Speaker 1: And this conversation, and we're going to talk about this

166
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 1: a little bit more, but it also we can bring

167
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:24,959
Speaker 1: in exploitation and trafficking in this whole thing. The perpetrator

168
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 1: of grooming can be just about anyone. From retired special

169
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:35,600
Speaker 1: Agent with the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit Kenneth V. Lanning quote,

170
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 1: pedophiles span the full spectrum, from saints to monsters. In

171
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 1: spite of this fact, over and over again, pedophiles are

172
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: not recognized, investigated, charged, convicted, or sent to prison simply

173
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,480
Speaker 1: because they are nice guys.

174
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 4: As in fact, my experiences in working with sex offenders,

175
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 4: it's common to see a sex offender being the most

176
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 4: cooperative and workable group of offenders. They majority of these

177
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 4: types of defenders are not necessarily violent and often very

178
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,559
Speaker 4: aware of their surroundings and how to stay under the radar.

179
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 4: You could also say that for female adults with younger

180
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 4: men or the younger teenage boys, they are not volatile,

181
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 4: but they use their sexuality as well as their dominance

182
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 4: and or power to get control over these youths and

183
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 4: oftentimes somehow convince these teenage boys slash younger boys that

184
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 4: they are not victims, but they are the loves of

185
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 4: their lives. They're their boyfriends, which is a manipulation in itself,

186
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 4: and honestly, not to make you paranoid, but just to

187
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 4: give empower you with information. I think by now people

188
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 4: are aware of all the shocking statistics of human trafficking,

189
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 4: so I kind of want to jump into that. And

190
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 4: for us in Atlanta, that's a really big issue. Atlanta

191
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 4: has one of the highest statistics when it comes to

192
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 4: victims and trafficking, and I think that has a lot

193
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,520
Speaker 4: to do with the international airport that we have. We

194
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 4: have heartspelt, so a lot of international flights through there,

195
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 4: so people are easily accessible or lights are easily accessible wherever, as.

196
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 2: Well as our big events.

197
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,360
Speaker 4: And with that, I want to talk a little bit

198
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,880
Speaker 4: about sea sick victims, which means commercially sexually exploited children,

199
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,319
Speaker 4: which you're going to hear me say that acronym a lot,

200
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,199
Speaker 4: and you probably may have already heard it and not

201
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 4: realized what it is. But what it comes down to

202
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,079
Speaker 4: is here we're defining children or youth under the age

203
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 4: of eighteen, specifically victims, about how they're found and how

204
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,439
Speaker 4: they're picked out, and we're going to talk a little

205
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 4: more about what exactly that looks like the whole human trafficking.

206
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 4: I know that's a pretty big word, and everybody's become

207
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:43,840
Speaker 4: very aware of it.

208
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 1: If we go, if we broaden out to grooming. We

209
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,080
Speaker 1: don't have any solid numbers on it because it's something

210
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 1: that is surrounded by a shame here, guilt or not

211
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: realizing that a form of abuse is taking place. Numbers

212
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 1: we do have from two thousand and six indicate that

213
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 1: one in four girl girls and one in five boys

214
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 1: will be sexually abused before they turn eighteen. Some estimates

215
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,079
Speaker 1: put the number of child sex offenders as low as

216
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 1: five percent. Again, it's one of those things that isn't

217
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 1: reported on very often, like it's underreported this crime. So

218
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,600
Speaker 1: probably numbers are higher than what we're saying, and they're

219
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,440
Speaker 1: already pretty high.

220
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 4: And that has a lot to do with children don't

221
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 4: know how to report, they're not taught how to report one, two,

222
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 4: they feel like they're unsafe to try to actually report,

223
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 4: or they do it way later in time in which

224
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 4: the statute of limitations are gone, and that varies from

225
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 4: state to state, which is unfortunate. And a lot of

226
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 4: times they're discouraged by members that are close to them

227
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 4: to not report. So all of these things have factors

228
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 4: into why it is so underreported m.

229
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 1: HM and generally, grooming starts as friendship. The groomer learns

230
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 1: what the potential target likes, what they dislike, thinks that

231
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,680
Speaker 1: they can use later.

232
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,960
Speaker 3: Social media can play a big part of this.

233
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: The groomer can learn a lot about the person from

234
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,440
Speaker 1: what they post, and they can use that information to

235
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 1: form a friendship. That's one reason why being careful about

236
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 1: what we post, especially for younger people, is always, always

237
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 1: always recommended. From the stuff you post on social media,

238
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 1: someone could start a conversation about your interests. They might

239
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 1: mention someone you know as if they know that person too,

240
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,439
Speaker 1: or in the case of a power disparity in terms

241
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,360
Speaker 1: of maybe a job, a coach or a teacher, or

242
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: a doctor or a priest, because there already is one

243
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 1: inherent a power dynamic, if a minor is involved, mentioning

244
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 1: the power that they.

245
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,560
Speaker 4: Have right, I mean we can just talk about the

246
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 4: fact you can lose your job. Now if you post

247
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 4: something that may not have anything to do with your job,

248
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 4: you can lose scholarships, you can lose anything, in which

249
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 4: we try to tell everyone, don't be dumb. You will

250
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 4: be found out if it's on the internet, even once

251
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,200
Speaker 4: it can be found again. I know that that's one

252
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,560
Speaker 4: of the same things that we talk about with sharing

253
00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 4: your location. That is beyond dangerous because oftentimes these offenders

254
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,080
Speaker 4: are at the level that they will stalk you. I

255
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,200
Speaker 4: think the recent case Close Jaden Close, is that her name.

256
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 4: I'm going to have to go back and look at

257
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 4: this who just recently work was kidnapped her after her

258
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 4: parents were shot. Oh oh yeah, he stalked her and

259
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 4: it had nothing to do with social media, but just

260
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 4: the level at some that some.

261
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,040
Speaker 2: Perpetrators will go to.

262
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 4: He stalked her from a school bus to the home,

263
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 4: not knowing who she was, not knowing who they were,

264
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 4: and was willing to commit murder and kidnapping to get

265
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,840
Speaker 4: to her, which is a rude awakening. It happens since

266
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 4: they were Therefore, things like location tagging and all that

267
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,040
Speaker 4: can be very seriously dangerous, which needs to be discussed

268
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 4: with your youths, teenagers everyone.

269
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always that scary moment when the at least

270
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 1: for me, it was a little frightening. I've had it

271
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 1: happened a couple of times, but when the lift driver

272
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: is like, oh, do you live here alone and you're like, oh.

273
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 3: No, this is my friend's house.

274
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,880
Speaker 1: I remember being in high school when social media was

275
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 1: relatively new, my marching band director saying that you should

276
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 1: never trust someone who comes up to you and says

277
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 1: something like I know so and so, and they said

278
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 1: I should give you a ride or something like that

279
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,640
Speaker 1: because they could find that stuff out.

280
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 3: From social media. And I remember specifically at the time,

281
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 3: being kind of thrown by that idea. But he, I

282
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 3: mean he was right.

283
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 4: Yeah. As a nanny, I was really overprotective due to

284
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 4: having worked as an investigator in child abuse and sexual abuse,

285
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 4: and would oftentimes intervene if anything looks suspicious. And I

286
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 4: still think children under sixteen should not be on social media.

287
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 4: I was very upset with my brother and sister when

288
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,040
Speaker 4: they are allowed their teens or not empteens eleven to

289
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 4: twelve year old to get on social media and reminding

290
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 4: them this is not safe. You think you have control

291
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 4: over the phones, over the social media, you don't know

292
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 4: what's going on.

293
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 2: You will never.

294
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 4: Catch up to the new ways or fads or whatever

295
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 4: that is happening that you think you can be protective.

296
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 4: I know, Kick came out kik for a while, and

297
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,520
Speaker 4: that was one of the scariest things to me because

298
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 4: it was those photo messages that would send back and

299
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,120
Speaker 4: I actually had a case where a kid sent let's

300
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 4: just stay in an indecent picture to another kid and

301
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 4: then it got spread all around and we came back

302
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 4: and I was like, you know, this is a felony, right,

303
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 4: this is child molestation, this is child porn, distribution of

304
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 4: child porn. And they didn't understand that because they're all children.

305
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 4: But it doesn't have anything to do with age the

306
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 4: fact that you're spreading this. But it's such a scary

307
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 4: thing that I am overly cautious and oftentimes will make

308
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 4: sure that they understand this is not as safe as

309
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 4: you think. I remember I fought with my employer about

310
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,120
Speaker 4: getting these kids' phones, and they did. They kind of

311
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 4: stepped up to it because they used the kid version

312
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,480
Speaker 4: and then another version. But then we started talking about

313
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 4: the PlayStations, how they're easily accessible to Internet and oftentimes

314
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 4: they use that as an outlet for social media.

315
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a whole scary thing.

316
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 3: Yeah it is.

317
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 1: And I mean I could do I could speak for

318
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,160
Speaker 1: hours and hours about the harassment I received through a

319
00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,200
Speaker 1: gaming system.

320
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 3: That's a different episode. And it sucks.

321
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: This whole thing sucks because once again, the onus is

322
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: on us to prevent someone from doing something terrible.

323
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 4: And someone who's dedicated the majority of my adult life

324
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 4: to this is taxing, and it's never ending. It seems

325
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 4: like I'm just digging a hole, hoping that I'm.

326
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,360
Speaker 2: Kind of helping a little bit.

327
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 4: And then you turn around and there's something new, there's

328
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 4: something different, there's something more.

329
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: And another thing to keep in mind, the parent, adult authority, figures,

330
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: support group, whatever it is, of the target are often

331
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: groomed as well to progressively accept escalating levels of seemingly

332
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: innocent physical contact and isolation as normal. And this is

333
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: one of the ways something like Larry Nasser happens, which

334
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: I read in many places like that situation was just

335
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: the perfect thing for grooming or r Kelly, I knew

336
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 1: a guy who was really active in the homeless, transgend

337
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 1: teen community, and he was doing something like this, and

338
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 1: I think he was also a government official.

339
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 3: He's not anymore. He's in jail. It should be as

340
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 3: he should be.

341
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 1: And as I've said before, outside of this, I do

342
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 1: acting and unsettling amount of times I often see a

343
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 1: post to alert people that a predator is asking for

344
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 1: pictures or videos of child actors under the guise of

345
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,080
Speaker 1: an audition are getting a role. It's disturbing how often

346
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: we get into from our agent.

347
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 3: This guy is not for real. Don't send him any

348
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 3: pictures of your children.

349
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 4: I think the taboo or the stereotype was the creepers

350
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,879
Speaker 4: come around offering you modeling jobs, and it turns out

351
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 4: it's not really modeling jobs, and whether they're trying to

352
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 4: just get nude pictures or assault someone or do something

353
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 4: even more dangerous. That people have started to become a

354
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,199
Speaker 4: little more, a little more aware with hope. After all

355
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 4: the Lifetime specials that I've seen, yeah they're all dangerous,

356
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 4: that's what I figured out. But this is a way

357
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 4: to get to you and the kids by promising something bigger, money, power, fame,

358
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 4: all of those things are Kelly. That's exactly what he did.

359
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 4: He takes these fifteen sixteen year olds fourteen year old,

360
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,959
Speaker 4: if you're a lee, I guess and promise, I'm going

361
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,679
Speaker 4: to build you a future. I'm going to make you

362
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 4: a star, and then starts doing the emotional and physical

363
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 4: and mental abuse with them in order to train them

364
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 4: and subdue them into his power race.

365
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 3: And that's that power dynamic again.

366
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk more about that after a

367
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,

368
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor.

369
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 4: After this friendship has been established, so we were talking

370
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 4: about that earlier. Just establishing friendship and or some kind

371
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 4: of nicety. The target views the groomer as a friend,

372
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,959
Speaker 4: a mentor, or a romantic interest.

373
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 2: Their guard is down.

374
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 4: The groomer might start offering gifts or favors and the

375
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 4: goal is to make the target feel like.

376
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 2: They owe the groom or something. They usually start.

377
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 4: Small, maybe keeping a promise, but build over time.

378
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: Right.

379
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: And I have some personal experience that I'm going to share,

380
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 1: but don't worry, I'm not going into gory detail.

381
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 3: That wouldn't be.

382
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 1: Good for anybody, but for me, I have had what

383
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: I call four periods of sexual abuse in my life,

384
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: and the hallmark in all of them, the common thread

385
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: was vulnerability and that power dynamic. They all involved authority figures.

386
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 1: The first two times it was someone my parents trusted

387
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: and I trusted because I'm a kid and they're in

388
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 1: our authority role in my life. But on the silver

389
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 1: lining side of this awful situation, they ended. They both

390
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: ended fairly quickly because I told someone. But the first

391
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: time it was a preschool teacher and he had a motorcycle.

392
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 3: That's what I remember the most.

393
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 1: He had a motorcycle and I wanted to ride it,

394
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 1: and he offered, like maybe one day, I'll let you

395
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: write it, but.

396
00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 3: First let's do this and this and then.

397
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 1: And he also had a gold stars and I wanted

398
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: to be a good girl, and I get these gold stars.

399
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 4: I mean, that's exactly something that often happens. They give you,

400
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 4: they see the person or the victim, and then they

401
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 4: use exactly what is needed for that individual victim. So

402
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 4: it's not just an overall blanket. It is tailored to

403
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 4: each individual victim. And often, like you, you want to

404
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 4: please someone, and you see this. And we could also

405
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 4: talk about the attachment issues and family life and or

406
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 4: previous abuse, because oftentimes I've seen children of abuse, as

407
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 4: you will show, are targeted again. They're the likelihood of

408
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 4: them being targeted again as a victim goes exponentially higher.

409
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 4: And I don't know how they know, but they know,

410
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 4: and I say they is, and the offenders, the perpetrators

411
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 4: that this is someone that you can groom or may

412
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 4: have already been groomed, and so therefore they can tailor

413
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 4: it once again in a different manner.

414
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a predator's instinct.

415
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: And after this whole situation, my family moved for other

416
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: reasons too, but in part because of this. And I

417
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: don't blame my parents, but they didn't really explain it

418
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: to me. And again I think it's a horrible difficult

419
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: conversation to have with your young child. But all I

420
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: knew was we were moving away from my friends because

421
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: I had said something. And the second time, I was

422
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: still really young, and it was a friend of a family,

423
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: and he definitely played up the whole like boys will

424
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: be boys. Your value is in how desirable you are.

425
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: This is a good thing. Don't be a cry baby,

426
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: don't be so weak. And I felt this pressure not

427
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 1: to say anything that would ruin his life. And I

428
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: already felt that I was lesser and that I should

429
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: stay quiet and not rock the boat.

430
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: And I was eight, and.

431
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: Both of these men, yeah, they knew what to say

432
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: and how to earn my chrest and how to keep

433
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: me from saying anything.

434
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 4: Right, And I was going to add with that. That's

435
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 4: part of the thing I see in a lot of

436
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 4: victims is that at the very beginning, they're fairly empathetic,

437
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 4: and therefore they wear the guilt on themselves, which is

438
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: kind of why everything's underreported. And as we look at

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 4: more the me Too era, even for older women, adult

440
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 4: women who have gone through the situation, whether it's rape

441
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 4: or sexual abuse or whatever as an adult, you see

442
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 4: that same statistics. I don't want to ruin this person's life.

443
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 4: He's a good man, but he is a good They

444
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 4: are a good person, but they only did this to me.

445
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: I'm the only victim. It's okay.

446
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 4: So so many times a lot of the victims or

447
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 4: survivors are willing to take on his shame, which is absurd.

448
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 4: And part of that is also because people don't want

449
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 4: to hear it, and so therefore it's easier to be

450
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 4: quiet and say never mind, don't worry about.

451
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: It, right.

452
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: That's something I still catch myself like speaking in that way,

453
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: like I don't want to ruin his life.

454
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 3: He ruined his life.

455
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: The third and longest phase of my abuse, it started

456
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: as a building of trust. Both of my parents and

457
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: my older brother were hospitalized, which was traumatic in excelf

458
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: and I had no idea when they were coming back.

459
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: I was a teenager in a house by myself with

460
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: my little brother, and I was so scared. I was

461
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: in this vulnerable state, and these two men knew that,

462
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: and they did say something along the lines of like

463
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: my parents had sent them, and I was like, okay,

464
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: but I was really suspicious and uncomfortable. But I was

465
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: grateful that I had some kind of help in this situation,

466
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: and even kind of flattered because they would tell me how.

467
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: Mature I was or how pretty I was for my age.

468
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: But I had a turning point and I realized, like,

469
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: I really don't like these people. I don't want them

470
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 1: near my little brother. I told them I didn't want

471
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: them coming around anymore, and they became extremely violent enough

472
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: so that I never ever wanted.

473
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: That to happen again.

474
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: It scared the hell out of me, and they threatened

475
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: me and my little brother. That's why the situation lasted

476
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: so long, because I didn't know what to do, and

477
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: obviously so much of my life suffered because of it.

478
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: My friend suffered, my mental health, my physical health. But

479
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: I felt like I had to be the strong one

480
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: for my brother. And every night I just remember laying

481
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: awake listening because his room was next to mine.

482
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: I was just not sleep because I was so so scared.

483
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 4: Right, you are a protector, and actually, any what you

484
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 4: experienced is something many of the perpetrators use as a

485
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 4: grooming tactic as well as that they single out one

486
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 4: child out of a group of peers or even in

487
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 4: a group of siblings, or they specifically target loners for

488
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 4: the lack of a better term, and will use threats

489
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 4: or rewards as a way to maintain their holds over

490
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 4: these victims. And that includes I'm going to hurt your brother,

491
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 4: I'm going to hurt your mother, I'm going to hurt

492
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: your father, things that they know you are worried about.

493
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: And they're not.

494
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 4: Afraid to use these tactics to get what they want

495
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 4: because in the end, they have the power, and that's

496
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: more gratifying than the end result of what could happen.

497
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 4: And it works because children believe adults, and that's part

498
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 4: of the problem. We want them to understand adults, we

499
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 4: want them to respect adults, but it's the same time,

500
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 4: do you differentiate respecting the right adult?

501
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean these are difficult.

502
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: There are questions, and they're difficult conversations to have, but

503
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: we do need to be having them.

504
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 3: So when the groomer becomes.

505
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: A part of the target's daily life, maybe shows up

506
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: at events that the target is attending alone, this builds

507
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: that trust and eventually, when the groomer is feeling confident,

508
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: they'll start asking for these favors back, and they usually

509
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: start as a non sexual favor, and then they become

510
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: progressively more sexual in nature, maybe watching pornography together, touching,

511
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: sending sexual materials.

512
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: And another hallmark of grooming is secrecy.

513
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: For obvious reasons, the groomer tries to keep this relationship

514
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: under wraps, especially in the early stages, and in order

515
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: to try to ensure silence from their victims, they will

516
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: say something like, don't tell anyone I did do this favor,

517
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: because they'll be jealous and everyone will want me to

518
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: do the same thing for them. The key is flattery

519
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: and to make the target feel special. At the same time,

520
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: the groomer starts to distance the target from people in

521
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: their life that could help them. Once the physical aspect

522
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: of the relationship is established, then shame plays a huge

523
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: role in the silence, along with things like force. Are

524
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: these threats, Separating the victim from their support group makes

525
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: controlling them easier. Treating the target as a co conspirator

526
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: is also.

527
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 3: A part of this. Yeah, one of my abusers was

528
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 3: really good at that.

529
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: He would say stuff like everything you are I made

530
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: you as if I owed him a big favor, and

531
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: I would willingly go back to him because I didn't

532
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: know what else to do. But I knew not going

533
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: back to him would make him very angry be a

534
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: very bad thing for me.

535
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 4: And this is where I would step in and say, remember,

536
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 4: guilt and shame and loneliness are major emotions that offenders

537
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 4: know can be easily manipulated. They want to use this

538
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 4: as a tactic to silence you. Guilt and shame we

539
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 4: have on our own pretty easily. Yeah, I could list

540
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: off all the exhameful things I did today. I'm not

541
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 4: going to because that's going to be three episodes long.

542
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: Unless you guys want to hear it. I'm just plain.

543
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 2: But this is why.

544
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: As a social worker we advise guardians and parents that

545
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 4: they watch out for the physical signs of abuse because

546
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 4: you're not going to necessarily know what's happening. These offenders, groomors,

547
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 4: perpetrators are really good in putting themselves in the middle

548
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 4: of a situation at the perfect time. And it has

549
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: nothing to do with your weakness. It has nothing to

550
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 4: do with their weakness. It's just they find the opportunity

551
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 4: and they take it. And again, like I said before,

552
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 4: these offenders slash perpetrators, they seem like nice guys or

553
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 4: nice women, nice people in general. They seem like they're

554
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 4: coming in to help you. They want to make your

555
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 4: life better. And this is the tactic that they know

556
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 4: to use. They can't just come in. There are the

557
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 4: aggressive ones. Let's talk about that. I realized that is

558
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: Jamie Close, not Jayden who I was talking about previously,

559
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 4: which he just came in with his mental health issues

560
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: and just drug her out. That's more unusual, which is

561
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 4: why we don't hear about that as much. But when

562
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 4: we do, it's like, oh, my gosh, what happened. What

563
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 4: we don't hear about is the years and years and

564
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 4: years and years of abuse that they had from the uncle,

565
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 4: or the years and years and years and abuse of

566
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: the neighbor or the pastor or their coach, you know,

567
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: stuff like that. That's when you start realizing, oh, my gosh,

568
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 4: I didn't know. And that's also when you start hearing

569
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: he was such a nice guy. I thought he was

570
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 4: helping us. And that's part of the problem in which

571
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 4: we can't always see what is happening with a child

572
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 4: until after the fact. So some of the signs, and

573
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 4: I know we're going to go into this a little deeper.

574
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 4: I know you have a laundry list, awesome, so we

575
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 4: can take notes. But just to throw that out there,

576
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: some of the signs would include withdrawal and isolation from

577
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: the victim, bed wedding, early sexualization, which is something that

578
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: I don't think people realize enough because they think it's just.

579
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Funny if they say something ridiculous.

580
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 4: But when you start realizing what's happening, or at least

581
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 4: sexualization is a big, big part of it, and you've

582
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 4: got to figure out where they're learning this from, because

583
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 4: either way because they are so young, they they may

584
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,239
Speaker 4: act on it in a way that you don't want

585
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 4: to know about, whether it's with their cousin, whether it's

586
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 4: with a dog, whether it's with you know, whatever's there

587
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: for their opportunity. So that's something that I always talk about,

588
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 4: is like, you need to see how they're acting out.

589
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 4: If they're acting out, you need to be concerned and

590
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 4: start asking why are they acting out? And it may

591
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: be as simple as they watch the wrong show. Yeah,

592
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 4: and then we always talk about regression as well, which

593
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: they go back and start more and more childlike maybe

594
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 4: you know, thumb sucking, start crying more, all of those things.

595
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 4: But any like I said, I know we're going to

596
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: go into more of the details, but just to throw

597
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: that out there once again.

598
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: Right and grooming.

599
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Another part that that makes it difficult is that it

600
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: can be hard to separate from romance because there is

601
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: this slow build and it can seem innocuous at first.

602
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: The target and other people in the target's life can

603
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: mistake it as romance.

604
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: Right, And this is where I want to come back

605
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: into talking about human trafficking SLASH, domestic human trafficking and

606
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 4: c SEC that commercially sexually exploited children because oftentimes most

607
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 4: of the targets believe they're going into something on their

608
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: own with their free will, thinking that they're coming into

609
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 4: a relationship and or a living situation that's benefiting them both. Oftentimes,

610
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: children who are part of these circumstances happen to be

611
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 4: kids who are seeking something better, Like we're talking about

612
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 4: that whole isolating being alone, bad family situation, and honestly,

613
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 4: with the LGBTQI generation is even more prominent in that

614
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: group because they're already feeling isolated, if they're being shunned

615
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 4: by their family, they're trying to find someone to help

616
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 4: them to seek out what they need.

617
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: So we're going to go back and.

618
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: Talk about the fact that child's sex trafficking SLASH the

619
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 4: prostitution of children, which is defined as child sex tourism

620
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 4: involving commercial sexual activity, the commercial product production I'm so sorry,

621
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 4: the commercial production of child pornography, and the online transmission

622
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 4: of a video of which child is engaged in sexual

623
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 4: activity in exchange for anything of value. And I think

624
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 4: I wanted to bring this up at this time because

625
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: what we often see is that children who are manipulated

626
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: with this type of situation, believe, like we said, that

627
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: they are in a romantic relationship and see this as

628
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 4: a normal way of living.

629
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: And getting money.

630
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 4: I've had to have many conversations with a lot of

631
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 4: my females. My girls who go into a situation will

632
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: not say that they are victims, even though they know

633
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 4: that they have had to have sex with older men

634
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 4: and give them money to their boyfriend quote unquote, or

635
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 4: they get tagged with the name of the boyfriend as

636
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: a way of a marker, or they are having to

637
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 4: pay back for food or drugs that they're giving by

638
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 4: using drugs. So oftentimes I don't think people see that

639
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 4: as a thing. And this is why we have this

640
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 4: conversation of charging teenage girls or teenage boys as prostitutes

641
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 4: is problematic because oftentimes what you see is there is,

642
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 4: for the lack of better terms, a pimp, flash a

643
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: perpetrator who is pushing this from behind, threatening her, telling

644
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 4: her she's going to be alone all of these situations

645
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: because they are being forced to But we don't see that.

646
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 4: We just see, and I say we, as the government

647
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 4: sometimes until recently, saw that as these kids are committing

648
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 4: a crime, we're going to give them a prostitution charge

649
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 4: or soliciting charge, which is absurd as in fact, we're

650
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 4: talking about that case in Tennessee where she finally was

651
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: given to clemency, grained clemency when she shot the man

652
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 4: who was pimping her out at sixteen. And I'm not

653
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 4: gonna lie. I know that what happened was great because

654
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 4: the governor finally released her A granted that. However, he

655
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 4: also said she did a heinous crime, but she's ready

656
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 4: to make up for it, and that's I have a

657
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 4: problem with that. She did a crime, yes, but I

658
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 4: have a feeling as a person who's worked in this field,

659
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 4: to her, it was survival and should we be punishing

660
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 4: her to that level and still using her as a

661
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 4: stigma as a murderer when she was maybe defending herself

662
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 4: or trying to get out of the life without losing

663
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 4: her life.

664
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

665
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: One warning sign, according to experts, is the potential groomers

666
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: insistence to meet up beyond what might be considered normal

667
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: and potentially utilizing threats or guilt to get the person

668
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: to show up. Since the groomer has put a lot

669
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: of time and maybe money into grooming, they want to

670
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: check in on their progress in the person. Experts also

671
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: point out that the target usually has some sense at

672
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: something is not quite right, a feeling that isn't there

673
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: in consensual romance, like.

674
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 4: Right, actually, I know, like I said, As I've spoken

675
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 4: with many girls coming out of that situation, they will

676
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 4: tell you at what point they were like, this is

677
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 4: not what I thought. Yeah, there is that moment, whether

678
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 4: it's their first client and or the fifth client, or

679
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 4: when you hit her, or when they you know, or

680
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 4: when she demanded things. There are moments that they have

681
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 4: like I didn't want this. I thought I was in

682
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 4: love and I thought we were in this together.

683
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 3: Right.

684
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: And another thing is that grooming can take place completely online,

685
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: coursing someone to take part in online sexual activities like

686
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: sending pictures or videos, having sexual conversations. Then the groomer

687
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: might tighten their control by threatening to send these things

688
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: to the target's friends and family, and a groomer just

689
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: they might message one hundred children at a time like

690
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 1: just seeing what sticks.

691
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 4: And this is again that shame factor. I've got something

692
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 4: of yours. If you don't do this, I'm going to

693
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 4: embarrass you and out you as a deviant or whatever whatnot.

694
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 4: And again I do want to mention even for miners,

695
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 4: they cannot send these sexually explicit pictures because in the law,

696
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: you're sending child pornography. Therefore, you can be arrested for

697
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: a very sensive amount of time because we know the

698
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 4: GBI for where we are, and FBI see this as

699
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 4: a heinous crime now and they will come at you

700
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 4: at full force.

701
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: Right and kind of a strange aside, but it kept

702
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,959
Speaker 1: coming up when I was researching this. This movie called

703
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: show Dogs, which was a children's movie that came out earlier.

704
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 3: In twenty eighteen about I don't really know much about

705
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 3: the show Dog scene, but.

706
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: It's about that, and it actually got recut prior to

707
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: its theatrical release because of a scene where a character

708
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: was touching the dog's jenitles and telling him to go

709
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: to his in place, and people pointed out that this

710
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: is something that happens during grooming, telling a child to

711
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: pretend you're somewhere else and.

712
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 2: To throw it out there.

713
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 4: I have seen cases where children who have been sexually abused,

714
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: severely abused, use pets and dogs as their sexual outlets.

715
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 4: So beastiality is not as unheard of for this type

716
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 4: of community. Because as I said before, when opportunity is there,

717
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 4: they're going to try it.

718
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: And when listener Emma wrote about this a while ago,

719
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: she suggested we could extrapolate this whole thing out to

720
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: a societal level to how we groom and sexualize young

721
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: women in the United States and probably a lot of

722
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: the Western world. And I mean, in my personal examples,

723
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: the fact that these men told me I was beautiful

724
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: or that I was sexy. They they knew that that's

725
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: how I saw my value, and they knew they could

726
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: use that to manipulate me. Are you, Samantha, you brought

727
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: up religion. How we could bring it out to that.

728
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 4: When we talk about grooming or bringing someone up, or

729
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 4: making someone in a certain way. When you look at religion,

730
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 4: not all religions, but when you look at some religions,

731
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 4: they specifically target women to be the subservient person, and

732
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 4: so that subservient person becomes a specific representation of a

733
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 4: good person. So like when I say, I'm struggling with

734
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 4: this term right now. So yeah, for women, sometimes in

735
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 4: some religions they're used as trophy wives. So think about

736
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 4: the stereotypical preacher's wife. Not only are they created to

737
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 4: birth children, but they're also created to hold up the

738
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 4: man and be in the background and all of these

739
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 4: things and make the right food and make the right

740
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 4: gestures and make the right connections, but never be allowed

741
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 4: to be above the man.

742
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: Right.

743
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 4: So you look at religion and you're like, are they

744
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 4: grooming certain things? And you start grooming certain kids to

745
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 4: be pastors, grooming certain kids to be missionaries. Oh, I

746
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: see this in you. I see this in you, So

747
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 4: why don't we do this for you?

748
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah?

749
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: The point being, this could be such a bigger conversation

750
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: than the one we're having today, and I think that

751
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: is really fascinating and kind of scary to think about.

752
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 3: But wanted to put that in there.

753
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 4: I'll be back to do that one too. No one,

754
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: that's we're not talking about.

755
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just created that.

756
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 3: Okay, perfect.

757
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: Well, we do have some more for you about recognizing signs,

758
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: but first we have one more quick break forward from

759
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: our sponsor.

760
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: And we're back, Thank you sponsor.

761
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: So there are some signs that you can look out

762
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: for if you suspect someone you know is being groomed

763
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: or I guess even like turning it inward. So alcohol

764
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: or drug use, nightmares, changes, in diet are exercise patterns, insomnia,

765
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: disordered eating, anxiety withdrawn nature, risk taking, acting inappropriately sexual

766
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: for their age, and self harm are suicidal tendencies. And

767
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: it's so strange during episodes like these for me because

768
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of a checklist of things I experienced. And

769
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: as I was researching this, I got a pit in

770
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: the feeling of my stomach because I retroactively recognize these

771
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: signs in myself.

772
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: Right, And I think that happens when you start looking back,

773
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 4: you're like, oh my gosh, this is a clear sign

774
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 4: of and I know I've actually spoken with a few

775
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 4: women and it doesn't necessarily have to do with grooming,

776
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 4: but they didn't realize what was happening was an assault

777
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 4: onto them because they were like, oh, I just gave up,

778
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. I said this and he didn't listen,

779
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 4: but whatever, And then they moved on and we were

780
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 4: having this conversation, they make the realization, oh, my gosh,

781
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 4: I was raped or I was assaulted or I was

782
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: being groomed for this, And it's that clarity of oh yeah,

783
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 4: because also at the initial moment, you don't want to

784
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: say you're a victim that's the last thing you want

785
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 4: to think. As bad as everything is, you don't want

786
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 4: to be one more thing. I'm a victim, and not

787
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: that it's a bad thing, but it does feel like

788
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 4: such a weakness even though you shouldn't.

789
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with you.

790
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know so many listeners have written in

791
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: about that very thing you're talking about, like, I didn't

792
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: realize what happened to me was this, and it is.

793
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to accept, like to put it in

794
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: those terms, and I think a lot of people will

795
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: avoid doing it.

796
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 4: And I know there's also I'm pretty sure we're gonna

797
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 4: be talking about this in later episodes because I will

798
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 4: be here forever where they don't think it is as bad.

799
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so maybe as a child you were never

800
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 4: actually raped, when you were touched and.

801
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: Fondled, that's bad. Yeah, Well, let's just put it out there.

802
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 4: That's abuse and it shouldn't have happened, and that will

803
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 4: traumatize you.

804
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: Yep.

805
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: And if you were able to move past it in

806
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 4: a healthy manner, wonderful. If you haven't, it's not bad,

807
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 4: you didn't do anything wrong, it's not abnormal. You need

808
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 4: help to get past this. Because it happened to you,

809
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 4: it was unwelcomed, and it was harmful. End of story.

810
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 4: There's no this is worse than this that needs to

811
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 4: be thrown out the window.

812
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 3: M hmm.

813
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to talk about all of these things. So,

814
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: the NSPCC has a list of science forged children specifically,

815
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: and they include being secretive, especially about what they're doing online,

816
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: dating someone older, meeting up with people in strange places,

817
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: having new things they can't or won't explain, having access

818
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: to drugs and alcohol, nightmares, cleanness, bed wedding, masturbation, or

819
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: touching others inappropriately.

820
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 4: Right, And I think I would include in some of

821
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 4: these things when they randomly start bringing up strangers' names

822
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 4: that you don't recognize, which has happened a lot, and

823
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 4: you start asking questions and if they can't tell you

824
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 4: last names. As a person who has done investigations for

825
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: child abuse, that was one of the things that I

826
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 4: would look for. I saw I met with this person? Really,

827
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: who is this is my sole and so's friend? Okay,

828
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 4: what's his last name? I don't know. How often do

829
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: you see them? When do you just things like that?

830
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 4: That's actually a big sign too. They start suddenly talking

831
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 4: about this wonderful person, but yet you don't know who

832
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 4: they are, where they came from, but they crept up.

833
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: That's something to watch for too.

834
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: Right, And when talking about prevention, especially when it comes

835
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: to children, it's recommended speaking to them about sex and

836
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: anatomy at a young age, letting them know that they

837
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: can come to you with concerns, and teaching them about

838
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: grooming behaviors and like you were seeing touching, like if

839
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: you don't want to hug, it's totally cool.

840
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 4: And I think it's just a reminder for the parents

841
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 4: or adults who are dealing with the situation too. If

842
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: this happens to your child, your niece, your nephew, your student,

843
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: it isn't your fault. And I know part of that

844
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 4: shame comes on to the parents or adults as well.

845
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 4: I actually experienced this myself as a child. I'd gone

846
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 4: through several different types of abuse and I was acting

847
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 4: out in class and I also was suicidal because my

848
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 4: parents didn't know what to do, and they felt shame

849
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 4: and they felt guilt. They lashed out in a different manner,

850
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 4: which they have apologized. And we've gone through all the

851
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 4: knows and is, but essentially making me feel more ashamed

852
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 4: and not being able to come out again with any

853
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 4: of the more information. Right on top of that, this

854
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 4: should not be something that you beat yourself up for.

855
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: That is part of the help as well.

856
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 4: You being in the proximity of someone else being victimized.

857
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 4: It is not your fault either, and you need to

858
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 4: care for yourself as much as you need to care

859
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 4: for this victim.

860
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: Right Yeah.

861
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: And as I've said on the show before, I've actually

862
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: never told anyone in my family any of this, like

863
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,479
Speaker 1: they would be shocked, and part of that is because

864
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: I didn't want them to feel guilty, right So, and

865
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: the thing is that that's me. They've never really given

866
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: me an indication that they would, but that is a

867
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: part of like I considered that I haven't told them.

868
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: So those that's a good point, and we have some

869
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: some resources to put in here. If you realize that

870
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: you are someone you know is the target of grooming,

871
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: there is there is help for you out there. The

872
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: first step is recognizing what's going on. Once you do that,

873
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: identify someone outside of this relationship that you can talk

874
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: to about it. In a perfect world, this would be

875
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: a professional, someone who doesn't know the groomer, but that

876
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 1: isn't always an option for everyone. Unfortunately, you can find

877
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: resources online that have advice on getting out of a

878
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: situation like this, and you can call the US National

879
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: Domestic Violence Hotline, which is eight zero zero seven nine

880
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: nine seven two three three or the US Victim Connect

881
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: Resource Center eight five five four eight four two eight

882
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: four six. They also have online options, but I mean

883
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen is

884
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: that they have like this function or if you click away,

885
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 1: it erases your history.

886
00:45:59,800 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: Right.

887
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 4: There are several options for domestic balance victims where you

888
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 4: click it and goes to whether it's your dial page

889
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 4: or whatever. Unfortunately, it's necessary and I wanted to add

890
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 4: one more out there, which is with the Child Health

891
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 4: National Hotline, so this could be specifically to child services

892
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 4: child needs. It is one eight hundred for a child

893
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 4: so or one eight hundred four two to two four

894
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 4: four five three. And I know in each individual state

895
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 4: there are hotlines to your department Family and Children's Services

896
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 4: or Family and Children's Services that are available, which in

897
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 4: the perfect world would be the end all, but at

898
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 4: least you are doing something.

899
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and for listeners not in the United States.

900
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: There are resources in a lot of a lot of

901
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: other countries as well, obviously, so there there is help

902
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: out there. A lot of times targets of grooming might

903
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: not realize what's going on, and we'll outright deny it.

904
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: This came up a lot with the thing with r. Kelly,

905
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: which makes helping them difficult. And the best way to

906
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: approach the situation, from what I've read, is to be

907
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: a friend and good listener to the target of grooming,

908
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: voice your concerns and give reasonings in a calm manner.

909
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: If you try to remove someone from the situation forcefully,

910
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: it could get worse for the.

911
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: Person that you're talking to.

912
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 1: However, if the target is a minor or otherwise vulnerable adult,

913
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: an authorized adult really needs to intervene. And again, this

914
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: is something you see with like.

915
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 4: Cults, right, yeah, and again, I keep referencing my job

916
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 4: in my career, I have seen many a times where

917
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 4: parents just kind of go after them, go after them

918
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 4: and continuously because run away kids, run away kids run away.

919
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 4: And one of the big things that we have to say,

920
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 4: we can't make them meant what's going on. We can't

921
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 4: make them say they're a victim we can't make them

922
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 4: say this makes them unhappy because in the end, we

923
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 4: don't know where they come from or came from. And

924
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 4: oftentimes in my job as a social worker working with

925
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 4: children and working with tea, I see that they think

926
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: this is a better route because they feel like they

927
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 4: have more control than what was happening at home. So

928
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 4: that is definitely a situation, and there's not much you

929
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 4: can do other than make sure you're there for them, yeah,

930
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 4: and continue to be there for them and check in

931
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 4: on them.

932
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: So I guess to give a little bit of closure

933
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: for what I was talking about earlier in my situation.

934
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: The longest phase of abuse I had, it ended with

935
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: a car crash and arrest that I still feel very

936
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: guilty about because I really wanted them out of my

937
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: life and I couldn't do it, And when it happened

938
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: in this abrupt, violent way, I was so relieved, and that,

939
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: even though I know it's totally legitimate and human to

940
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: feel that way, it made me feel really awful about myself.

941
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 3: So that's something I still struggle.

942
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: These aren't easy, easy things to deal with, Like we're

943
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: giving you advice, but we're telling you from people who've

944
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: experienced things.

945
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 4: We know it's difficult, and this is where we're coming

946
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 4: back to understanding trauma. And that's why we are talking

947
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 4: about this, because we want you to see every different aspect.

948
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 4: Maybe all you had was the grooming experience that's still traumatic.

949
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 4: Maybe someone you knew went through that experience that's still traumatic.

950
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 4: And of course we want to keep talking about it

951
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 4: and keep going into it as we go into more

952
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: of these episodes. But again, these are things that both

953
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 4: Annie and I have experienced, have seen, continue to see

954
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 4: and try to hopefully champion for the people who can't

955
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 4: champion for themselves essentially, but it's important once again to

956
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 4: take care of yourself and these guilt acknowledge that they're there.

957
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 4: Trying to pretend like it's not there does not work,

958
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 4: I promise.

959
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

960
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 4: I have come out on many panic attacks trying to

961
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 4: repress a lot of a lot of things in my past,

962
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 4: and unfortunately, which is what we're going to talk about,

963
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 4: with the different types of trauma, PTSD, CPTSD, all of

964
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 4: those things it comes out, unfortunately, whether it's in your

965
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,479
Speaker 4: relationships in a daily life, or whether it's in panic

966
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 4: attacks or mental health things, it does. And so therefore

967
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 4: caring for yourself and acknowledging that these are there are

968
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 4: actually very very important.

969
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: Yes, and that brings us to we're going to try

970
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: to end all of these episodes with some self care stuff.

971
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: So we're gonna like go through what we're doing for

972
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: self care for me. I am finally watching Spider Man three,

973
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: which I know some people would argue with the opposite

974
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: of self care, but I'm.

975
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 3: Excited about it.

976
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: These are nerd things. I don't know.

977
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 3: I'm so excited.

978
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: It's notoriously okay, pretty bad, and I'm making I'm doing

979
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: this because I'm working on a Venom parody music video

980
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: so very important, which I'm very excited about.

981
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I am too. I can't tell you how

982
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 3: excited I am about it. It's oh, please be in it.

983
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: I'm recruiting everyone who will help me, so listeners if

984
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: you guess them. It's a song parody to the tune

985
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: of Beck's Loser because in the movie Venom, if you

986
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: don't know, he calls himself loser in a very funny

987
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: tone of voice. Anyway, also hanging out with friends and

988
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: going hiking, and for the D and D factor of

989
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: the episode because I'm going to include one of these

990
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: for everyone, since the whole reason I started playing.

991
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 3: D and D was to deal with my CPTSD.

992
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: Okay, so one thing that's great about D and D

993
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: or terrible, depending on who you ask, is that it

994
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: rarely goes as planned for anybody. And my character is

995
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: sort of notorious for blowing stuff up. And and in

996
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: the game, we were invited to this very fancy party,

997
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: like we had to buy dresses our suits.

998
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, very fancy. It went terribly awry.

999
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: All the authorities of this entire town are looking for it, like,

1000
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: they chase us out of the party, and I make

1001
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: time my character to blow something up while we're being

1002
00:51:58,640 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: pursued by the police.

1003
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 2: And then.

1004
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: We broke into this mean old lady's magic shop again

1005
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: being pursued by the police.

1006
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 4: Okay, when you're saying this is all on the game

1007
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 4: not in real life, because I got really for a second,

1008
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 4: I was like, how are you not arrested? And also

1009
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 4: who has a magic shop? I keep going, I'm ready now.

1010
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: Yes, So we're we're not great people, if that's not clear,

1011
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: our characters are, but we're fun.

1012
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: We're fun at parties.

1013
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 2: Are the party's imaginary parties. Oh okay, so in parties

1014
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 2: both we'll see, yes.

1015
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: But one of our party members.

1016
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: Stole an outcloak that when he put it on, our

1017
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: dungeon master is the person that's kind of running the game.

1018
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: He said, you're not sure what it does, but you

1019
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: feel really confident. And now he never takes his character,

1020
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: never takes it off, and he looks cool as hell.

1021
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: He always describes how he's wearing it.

1022
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 1: The next day after we played, Paul Mannerfort got busted

1023
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: for his ostrich coat, and I thought.

1024
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 3: It was perfect.

1025
00:52:58,960 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 2: Perfect.

1026
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 4: So he's prettymuch much Dungeons and dragons all metaphor exactly.

1027
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 2: Who doesn't want to be that?

1028
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I don't care right there, that's the

1029
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 4: parody in itself. It is, okay, So my fun facts

1030
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 4: would have to do with my dinky dog, Peach's Gertrude buzzing.

1031
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's her full name.

1032
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 4: She I yelled that out loud to her when she

1033
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 4: does something dumb, which is often, And I have been

1034
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 4: told that dogs take on the characters of their person

1035
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 4: I can't deny that. I can't deny that she's a jerk,

1036
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 4: but I love her. She can't go out in public

1037
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 4: because she acts a fool, but she loves everyone except

1038
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 4: for other dogs. She loves men more interesting. And I'm

1039
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 4: not gonna slut shame her, but that makes me feel

1040
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 4: some type of way because I don't have.

1041
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 2: That many men coming through my life. And I already

1042
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 2: feel kind of weird about.

1043
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 4: That because I feel like I should, as we talked

1044
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 4: about the previous episodes, so I feel like she's giving

1045
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 4: me a double wimy of shame. I'm like, you're not

1046
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 4: good enough, and why don't you have a man? I'm

1047
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:06,919
Speaker 4: pretty sure that's the look I got from her.

1048
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: And if you.

1049
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 4: See, if anybody ever wants a picture of me and

1050
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 4: her during the New Year's and I give her a

1051
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 4: kiss and she rolls her eyes at me, that is

1052
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 4: a constant yes.

1053
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: Yes, And you have offered before if you have pictures,

1054
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: she has pictures, and if you want them, if you

1055
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: need them for your own self care, you can write

1056
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: in God him.

1057
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 4: She's wearing a hat, and one she's wearing a tiger suit, no,

1058
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 4: a lion suit, and one Christmas pj's.

1059
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: In one she's sitting on top of people. In another.

1060
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 3: Goodness, see a lot of options.

1061
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you need resources, you can reach out

1062
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: to us as well. Samantha will be back in our

1063
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: next episode whatever, and this series on examining trauma, and

1064
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: the next episode is about trauma specifically, so you can

1065
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: look out watch your feed for that. In the meantime time,

1066
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: if you want to email us if you need any

1067
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 1: of those resources or those pictures, you can. Our email

1068
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: is mom Stuff at hawstuffworks dot com. Our Twitter is

1069
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff Podcast, and on Instagram we are stuff We've

1070
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: never told you. Thanks as always to our producer Andrew Howard,

1071
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: and thanks to much for listening.