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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, more on the Monkeys in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: We're talking with the Chip Douglas, who was a key

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Speaker 1: player both literally and figuratively in so much of the

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Speaker 1: most favorite tracks from the nineteen sixties, and he's with

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Speaker 1: us here on Coast to Coast, AM, I want to

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Speaker 1: I want to go back. If you missed the first

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Speaker 1: half hour, you may not have heard Chips say this,

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Speaker 1: but you were in high school and you were in

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Speaker 1: this kind of Kingston Trio, kind of wanna be banded right,

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Speaker 1: happy group you might call him. Yeah, that's all we

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Speaker 1: did was saying Kingston Trio songs. And we met in

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Speaker 1: a dormitory on the Punaho School campus and we used

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Speaker 1: to practice them up there because there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of echo and the always you know, yeah, yeah, anyway, well,

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Speaker 1: but but so what was it like for you And

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Speaker 1: do you remember the very first time you met John

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Speaker 1: Stewart of the Kingston Trio. The first time we met

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Speaker 1: was when I went to audition for the part that

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Speaker 1: Dave Guard vacated and they needed someone to replace him,

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Speaker 1: and there was a couple of guys in consideration they

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Speaker 1: flew me over there to audition. I was about nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and I played with him and Sue and so fourth

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Speaker 1: and came back to the office the next day and

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Speaker 1: one of the road managers said, well, Chip, to be

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Speaker 1: brutally frank, you didn't make the scene. And I went, oh, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: and then in walk John Stewart through the door, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he was about to audition or had already

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Speaker 1: gotten the job. One thing, the first time I saw

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Speaker 1: him and we said hello, and it was just a

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Speaker 1: couple of words and that was that. And then I

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Speaker 1: went back to Hawaii. Didn't see him much until much

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Speaker 1: later when I was living in La again and got

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Speaker 1: got together with him and on occasion when it was

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Speaker 1: following the trio around and we'd hang out and got

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Speaker 1: to know him and listened to his songs, and you

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Speaker 1: were friendly. I mean, it was no hard feelings, obviously,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty cool. All right. So let's now, let's

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Speaker 1: go back to the Turtles. So you you record this album,

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Speaker 1: this great album with the Turtles, which has one of

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Speaker 1: the earliest known as far as I know of, anyway,

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Speaker 1: versions of a song by Warren Zevon, like the Seasons,

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Speaker 1: which is on that Turtles album that you had done

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Speaker 1: so well with Happy Together, and then also the track

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Speaker 1: She'd Rather Be with Me, which is another great song

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Speaker 1: from the Turtles. Yeah, now those I didn't produce. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with. All we did with

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Speaker 1: the Turtles was Happy Together and a couple other songs,

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Speaker 1: one of which was a forgettable one called Can't You

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Speaker 1: Hear the Cows? And a couple other things, and they

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Speaker 1: never made it to the albums, but the main one

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Speaker 1: was Happy Together. And right after that I got better

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Speaker 1: offer to go produce the Monkeys, and so I had

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Speaker 1: to leave before you know, before album number two. You

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Speaker 1: bet you did one album, one great song, and then

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Speaker 1: you're out. So you left Because again I've heard a

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Speaker 1: couple of different versions of the story. Did this happen

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Speaker 1: again at the Whiskey a Go Go that Mike Nesmith

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Speaker 1: came up to you and said, we'd like you to

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Speaker 1: produce the Monkeys. Well, that was not the first time

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Speaker 1: i'd met him, but that was the time that I

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Speaker 1: had to decide whether I wanted to stay with the

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Speaker 1: Turtles or except Mike's offer to go produce the Monkeys

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Speaker 1: and something I didn't really know how to do. I'd

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Speaker 1: never produced a record in my life. I'd recorded on

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Speaker 1: a few of them, but I wasn't the professional producer

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Speaker 1: by any means, so I was hesitant. I said, are

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Speaker 1: you sure about this? He said, don't worry. Don't worry.

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Speaker 1: I'll teach you everything you need to know, and you can.

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Speaker 1: You can do it. Believe me. I have faith in you.

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Speaker 1: So I said, all right, I'll do it then. And

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Speaker 1: you know, you said there'll be a good substantial paycheck

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Speaker 1: in it for you, so you know, don't worry, right,

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Speaker 1: I said, okay? And I hated to leave the Turtles.

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Speaker 1: I was having so much fun with those guys. I

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Speaker 1: mean we'd go on the road and get all wigged out, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: wigged out, let's just call it that wigged out. That's

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Speaker 1: all they wanted to do was have fun. You know,

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Speaker 1: they want to take They didn't want to be taken seriously,

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Speaker 1: the turtles, they right, And that's the reason, Howard Kaylin says,

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Speaker 1: And how is the weather In the end, he says,

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Speaker 1: I put that in there just so everyone wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: that we're not serious about this. We're just having fun

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Speaker 1: and we're just that's the way we do it. And

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Speaker 1: so okay, you know, yeah, I love and I love

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Speaker 1: when you look at the videos of of what would

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Speaker 1: later become Flow and Eddie in The Turtles, that that's

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Speaker 1: a rare arrangement of those two lead vocals in a way,

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Speaker 1: two frontmen in a way that play off of each

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Speaker 1: other for such great comic effect while they're singing these

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Speaker 1: love songs. Um and I think that that's just that

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Speaker 1: was a unique vibe. It was a very entertaining approach

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Speaker 1: to pop music because it sort of elevated it a

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Speaker 1: little bit to like a circus act. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: had that, it had that kind of frivolity to it. Well,

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Speaker 1: Mark was quite the clown on stage. He I mean

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Speaker 1: he tossed that tambourine fifty air and then catch it

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Speaker 1: with his foot and all of this kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: and jump all over the place. And of course Howard

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Speaker 1: still my favorite voice of all time movie Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially the song that he did called You Baby. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know what it is about that vocal on that.

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Speaker 1: You know, his voice kind of breaks in places, you know,

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Speaker 1: like Tammy Wynette does that little right thing and a

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Speaker 1: just sounds so great and those things, you know, and

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Speaker 1: he's one of my all time favorites. But well, two guys,

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Speaker 1: two part harmony. It was my favorite thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: just like all the country artists do nowadays. You got

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Speaker 1: one guy to sing the melody and the other guy

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Speaker 1: comes in and he sings that high harmony on those choruses.

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Speaker 1: And everybody has done that, you know, the Beatles do

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Speaker 1: it in all kinds of places and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. You know. It's it's electrifying to me to

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Speaker 1: have sound when when one guy singing it is fine,

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Speaker 1: you know, but boy, if you bring that other guy

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Speaker 1: in and not the same guy. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: themselves and do their own harmony, but if you got

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Speaker 1: some different voice up there that really works, well, it's

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Speaker 1: it's I love it, you know, it's the favorite thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's so, it's so in evidence. And I've actually already

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Speaker 1: pulled you baby for a bumper later on tonight. But

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Speaker 1: we're talking with the Chip Douglas and so, so, whatever,

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Speaker 1: what do you think Mike Nesmith saw in you? I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you've been asked this question before. I'm sure Mike

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Speaker 1: comment on this before his passing. But what I mean

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Speaker 1: that is such a long shot that he would he

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Speaker 1: would pick you. He was a big fan of the

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Speaker 1: Modern Folk Quartet for one thing, okay, and he knew

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Speaker 1: I had the ability to arrange harmonies for another. But

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Speaker 1: then you know, a big hit with the Turtles, and

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Speaker 1: there we are on the Smothers Brothers singing this wonderful

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Speaker 1: record and that I think that got to him too,

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Speaker 1: and he said, that's that's the guy we need. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's so you know, and yeah, but I mean that's

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Speaker 1: and we were friends at I didn't see him too

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Speaker 1: much too often, but you know, we knew each other.

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Speaker 1: And but mainly he was a fan of our group,

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Speaker 1: and I guess in particular fan of mine, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, said he. But that's but that's this is

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Speaker 1: why that's I mean, not just a compliment. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is where the Monkeys had so much to prove

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Speaker 1: because they were pushing back against Columbia and they were

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Speaker 1: saying Cole jem wrecker, and they were saying, we want

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Speaker 1: to do we want to play our own instruments, we

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Speaker 1: want to produce our own records. We're going to do

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Speaker 1: that and it's either that or this whole thing falls apart.

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Speaker 1: And eventually they caved and the Monkeys got to do it,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly here you were, you know, as the captain

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Speaker 1: of the ship when so much was at stake for

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Speaker 1: these guys. That's a that's more than just hey, we

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Speaker 1: like what you do to this record. You want to

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Speaker 1: come over and you know, kick around our headquarters for

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Speaker 1: a while, right. No, I felt the pressure. The little

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Speaker 1: gray hairs were sprouting all the time, you know, as

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Speaker 1: I was working away with them. But yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a lot of pressure. I didn't think about it. I

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Speaker 1: got so absorbed in the music. I just had to

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Speaker 1: keep going and keep trying to get another record done.

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Speaker 1: Lester still was rubbing my shoulders, say oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I have another record, baby, right before the team again,

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Speaker 1: and keep going and just plug it away. But you

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Speaker 1: know that, so I know that the band alchemy, as

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Speaker 1: you were talking about with the Turtles, that's such an

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Speaker 1: amazing thing to find. It's a harder thing to keep,

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Speaker 1: and it's a really easy thing to lose. And so

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Speaker 1: because egos and because of you know, spouses, and because children,

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Speaker 1: and because touring, and because all sorts of different reasons

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Speaker 1: that bands end up, drugs, alcohol, bands start falling apart.

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Speaker 1: The Turtles were hanging together, you pull out and here

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Speaker 1: were the Monkeys at this pivotal time. And the story

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Speaker 1: goes that Mike Nesmith and Peter tork just never really

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Speaker 1: got along. Is that was that your experience when you

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Speaker 1: walked into the sessions with the Monkeys didn't kind of,

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Speaker 1: but they really, they really wanted to together on this

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Speaker 1: Headquarters album. That was you know, they were determined to

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Speaker 1: be their own band, and that was my job was

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Speaker 1: to help them do that. And so you know, there

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Speaker 1: were there were disagreements here and there and stuff, but

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Speaker 1: by and large, everybody got along in the Headquarters album. Later,

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Speaker 1: I don't know after I was not involved. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there may have been different Mike is very vocal about that.

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Speaker 1: He would say of working with Peter Torky said, I

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Speaker 1: never liked the guy. He said, we all we ever

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Speaker 1: had was an uneasy truce, and I think it was

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Speaker 1: because they were the two best musicians in the original four. Well,

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Speaker 1: Peter could be very very argumentative. I mean, but he'd

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Speaker 1: give in after a while and he just and I

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Speaker 1: try to make my point, and he would try to

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Speaker 1: make his point. And first of all, he never wanted

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Speaker 1: me to be the producer in the first place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he wanted Stephen Stills to get the job, but he

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Speaker 1: didn't do it so anybody. But after talking to Peter said,

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Speaker 1: but Peter, see it this way and so on and

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Speaker 1: so forth, and it'd be he said, all right, Chip,

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Speaker 1: you're the producer, and he'd just walk away and that

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Speaker 1: would be that. But wasn't that there's a tid there's

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Speaker 1: a twinge of sarcasm in there. Oh yeah, he would, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're the producer. And yeah, but you know, somebody has

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Speaker 1: to decide, and that's right, you get hired to do.

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Speaker 1: I guess, not that I said it's got to be

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Speaker 1: this way or else. No, it's just I tried to

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Speaker 1: make my point as diplomatically as I could from time

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Speaker 1: to time if I felt it was important, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: you should play this part and you should saying this

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Speaker 1: harmony and you this guy should do that. And that's

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Speaker 1: the way I went about it. You know. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: interestingly enough too, you you became I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: this gets tossed around, but you became kind of the

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Speaker 1: fifth monkey because you two cover bass, putting, freeing up

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Speaker 1: Peter to play keyboards and guitar and doing other stuff

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Speaker 1: that was your That was what you played. That was

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Speaker 1: the instrument that you played best. But what was that

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Speaker 1: like when you said, okay, well I'll play the bass

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Speaker 1: on these tracks. Well, I just and I made the

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Speaker 1: point of Peter is such a great keyboard player. He

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Speaker 1: would sit down and he played these amazing classical pieces.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't really not thought, Wow, this guy

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Speaker 1: can play the piano, So why don't we have a piano,

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Speaker 1: a guitar, a set of drums and a bass. Well,

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Speaker 1: Davy couldn't play bass, and to do it all over again,

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Speaker 1: I might have said, well, Peter, let's just do it

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Speaker 1: as a three piece drums, bass, and Michael on the guitar,

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Speaker 1: and then you add your keyboard later. But I felt

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Speaker 1: that we needed to have a little combo of four guys,

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Speaker 1: just like the Beatles, you know, a band, so that

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Speaker 1: you could play with a four piece band in the studio.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's the way we went about it. And

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Speaker 1: Davy was playing the tambourine in the background and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that because he didn't play rhythm guitar on those days.

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Speaker 1: So that's how we did it. And they accepted that.

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Speaker 1: Although the management, Burt Schneider in particular, he told me

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Speaker 1: to call me in his office one day and he said, Chip,

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't you shouldn't be playing with him in there.

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Speaker 1: You you should stay in behind these the glass on

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Speaker 1: the other side where the recording machines are, and let

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Speaker 1: them do the thing. And I said, well, I kind

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Speaker 1: of feel that I kind of got to help hold

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Speaker 1: it together by being on the base, you know. So

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Speaker 1: that's what I did. And it could have been done differently,

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Speaker 1: but that's the way we did it. And that's really

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Speaker 1: Peter then playing the piano. Yeah, oh yeah, and all

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Speaker 1: of that quarters stuff and all the pissy stuff too.

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Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, it's Peter on the keyboards. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he did some great things. I mean, he did. It

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Speaker 1: took us a while to get there's a solo and

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Speaker 1: a thing called the Girl that I knew somewhere. It's

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Speaker 1: aichord solo and it's in horn fifths, which are a

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Speaker 1: thing that you're here with French RNs usually, but Peter

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Speaker 1: explained his door, they're called horn fifts, and then the

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Speaker 1: harmonies are like this, and then and he started playing

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Speaker 1: this thing and that, hey, that's great. Can you work

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Speaker 1: out the whole thing as a solo? And it took

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Speaker 1: him a while, but and it was a very complicated,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of notes in that and to do.

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Speaker 1: And he did it beautifully, you know, and I love

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Speaker 1: it in there. It's it's just it's different, Okay, amazing

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Speaker 1: featherstones guitar solo. It's it's a classical sort of sounding

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Speaker 1: harpsichord pard. So there you go. So, so let's go

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Speaker 1: back to the beginning of this half hour then, and

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Speaker 1: at some point you're in conversation with John Stewart formally

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Speaker 1: of Kingston Trio, and you asked him, Hey, do you

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Speaker 1: got a song? Where did that happen? Well, it was

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Speaker 1: up in Lall Canyon outside of Henry Biltz's play, probably

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Speaker 1: the photographer. That's where we used to Yes, that's where

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Speaker 1: we used to kind of hang out. And and he

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Speaker 1: would when he when I was producing The Monkey, said hey,

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Speaker 1: I've got songs, you know. I said, great, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: hear him. And so he played me and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: I became familiar with lots of his songs. And then

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Speaker 1: one day he played me this daydream Believer, and the

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Speaker 1: thing that grabbed me about that song was the way

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Speaker 1: he hit the low note in there, which you know,

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Speaker 1: the bluebird as she sings, and he had his deep

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Speaker 1: bass voice, and he hit this low note like that

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Speaker 1: said whoa. And that's what grabbed me, just that hitting

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Speaker 1: that low note like that. I didn't think about the

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Speaker 1: rest of it that much. I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 1: liked the song and everything, but I thought, well, I'll

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Speaker 1: play this for the guys and see what happens. And

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Speaker 1: so I took it in and played it for him

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Speaker 1: and Davey right away. God, that's for me. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: one for me. Yeah, and so he and it is

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Speaker 1: it is, it's a it's a song perfect for him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was thinking, well, we didn't get that

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Speaker 1: big bass note in there, and a blue bird as

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Speaker 1: she says, you know that's maybe saying in an occupier

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But it didn't matter. What also made that record,

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Speaker 1: and I gotta give credit where credit is due is

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Speaker 1: Shorty Rogers arranged that brass that I had. He was

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Speaker 1: a famous jazz composer and arranger, and I had some

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Speaker 1: ideas for string parts, and he had some ideas for

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Speaker 1: extra trumpet parts that went in there, and in particular,

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Speaker 1: this is this one kind of unison part where this

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Speaker 1: song mellows out in the middle and the trumpet just

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Speaker 1: go yeah, made that whole song right there. You know,

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Speaker 1: I thought, oh wow, And I didn't think of that,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you know, I always thought of that.

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Speaker 1: I always thought that was a very Herb Albert like break.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It just I love trumpets, especially Unison trumpets.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I was just a little line together,

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Speaker 1: and but it sounded like an A and M arrangement

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Speaker 1: that that that trumpet part, that just everything about that

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Speaker 1: to me had a little Tijuana brass vibe to it.

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Speaker 1: And then I had it looked up once and Shorty

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Speaker 1: Rogers did a lot of arrangements over at A and

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Speaker 1: M with her Valper, and I thought, okay, and not

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Speaker 1: my imagination, there was at least some. Yeah. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one a m.

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more