1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Chip, Hello, Are you as excited for this conversation as me? 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: I am. I'm also nervous because I feel like I'm 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: going to find out some really bad habits of my. 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Like how you're even worse than you thought at boundaries. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 3: But that's where you grow, right. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we think you and I talk about 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: this a lot. One of the main things we love 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: about having this podcast is that we get to actually 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: come on and talk to people who really admire, like 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: experts in different fields. And also it's like the greatest 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: teacher of all time because we're getting basically free therapy. Yeah. 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: So today we are so excited because we have the 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: Boundary Boss Terry Cole here. She is a psychotherapist and 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: author of Boundary Boss, The Essential Guide to Talk, True, 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: Be Seen, and Finally Live Free. 16 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 4: Hi Terry, Well, hello people, how are y'all? 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: We are sold to you here? Chip and I equally 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: talk about this, but we're both just have really been 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: on a journey, I would say, the past couple years 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: to really learn about how to take care of ourselves 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: and how to navigate life with boundaries. So let's just 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: dive in and I don't know, let's just talk about boundaries. 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: I want to know, how did you actually become the 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: boundary boss. 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 4: Well, I started out as the boundary disaster exactly. So 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 4: I mean, you know they say that you teach what 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 4: you most need to learn. Yeah, I think that that. 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 4: In my case, for sure that was true, although I 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 4: didn't know in my twenties, you know, when I was 30 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 4: in therapy and trying to figure out, like, why was 31 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 4: I bitter in this relationship and feeling taken advantage of 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 4: by this person and pissed off about this thing, I 33 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 4: had no idea that the pain in my relationships a 34 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 4: lot of it was related to me having disordered boundaries. 35 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 4: I didn't know that no one had taught me, no 36 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 4: one had talked about it. So in changing my relationship 37 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 4: to my own boundaries, internal boundaries, and then bringing that 38 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 4: out into my relationships, my life, my career, my romantic relationships, 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 4: it obviously changed my life. And I couldn't believe that 40 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 4: nobody teaches us this like incredibly important skill. And so 41 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 4: at the time when all this was happening, I was 42 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 4: a talent agent. I was negotiating contracts or supermodels and celebrities. 43 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 4: That's what I did before I became a psychotherapist, which 44 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 4: obviously is you know, entertainment is not exactly a hotbed 45 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 4: of really good boundaries. 46 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: Now it's just awful. 47 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 4: I mean, just especially as an agent because I was young, 48 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 4: our clients are young, You're socializing your ass off with people. 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 4: You really it was very difficult, and that really shone 50 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 4: a light on how not good I was with establishing 51 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 4: and asserting and communicating boundaries. So when I started really 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 4: getting it, and I realized at the end of my 53 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 4: career and entertainment that I just literally didn't care about 54 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 4: the Panteene deal or the movie contract. All I cared 55 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 4: about was getting my clients into eating disorder clinics and 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: drug treatment help and therapy. And I was like, all right, 57 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 4: clearly you're in. You need to get out of here 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: before you start really sucking, and just you need to 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 4: do what you want to do, which was a hard 60 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 4: transition to make because I was really I was incredibly ambitious. 61 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 4: I was only in my early thirties and I was 62 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 4: running an agency like I was sort of according to 63 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 4: my father, I was at the top of my career. 64 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: He was like, wait, wait, what are you doing. It 65 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 4: was one hundred percent like, but why I'm just curious. 66 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 4: You want to make no money, you want to get 67 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 4: in debt to NYU to one hundred grand, which I did. 68 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 4: But I was like, dude, I'm grown up, Like I 69 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 4: love you and all, but I don't need your money 70 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 4: or your approval, so hopefully you'll support me, and that 71 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 4: would be great. 72 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: I was going to say, I want to have a boundary. 73 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 4: Harry, there you go, Okay, yeah, I mean how many 74 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 4: years if there be in those people right right, that 75 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 4: wouldn't happened If I was twenty two, right, I would 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 4: have been like, oh, maybe I shouldn't right, Maybe you're right, 77 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 4: maybe I should stay being a talent agent even though 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 4: I didn't want to. But what I saw when I 79 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 4: opened my own practice, and you know, X number of 80 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 4: years in and I was always taking copious notes of 81 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 4: like what are the similar pain points that people walk 82 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 4: in with, Like what is it that is killing the 83 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 4: joy in people's lives? What is exacerbating their pain or 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 4: creating pain? And no matter what they're presenting problem was, 85 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 4: I could just follow the dots backwards to the fact 86 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 4: that it was all related to them having no clue 87 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: as to how to communicate or establish healthy boundaries and 88 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 4: how that eventually made them miserable the same way that 89 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 4: I was saying that when I got into therapy, and 90 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 4: when I was in you know, years into therapy, I 91 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 4: would be like, this person is taking advantage of me, 92 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 4: this person is entitled, this person has all this expect 93 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 4: to how dare they have these expectations? And of course 94 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 4: my therapist was like, how about just say no, I 95 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 4: have an idea, Like we could spend all of our 96 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: time judging how what an idiot Betty is, or we 97 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 4: can simply say, oh, hey, that doesn't work for me, 98 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 4: but if you move next Saturday, maybe I can help 99 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 4: you for two hours, as opposed to being like, I 100 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 4: can't believe she'd ask me, because it's very unempowering to 101 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 4: not know what your preferences, limits, and deal breakers are, 102 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 4: which is what I consider your boundaries. Right, so let's 103 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 4: let's go there. I don't know did I answer your question, 104 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 4: even though that was like. 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: And now I'm fascinated with this. So you said preferences, 106 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: Tell me again, preferences. 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 4: Preferences, limits, desires and dea breakers. 108 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: And deal and what are those like? If you had 109 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: to label those four things? 110 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 4: Those are well that these are your boundaries basically, that is, 111 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 4: and the reason why I give you this spam is 112 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 4: that not all boundary requests or desires have the same weight. 113 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 4: You can have a preference like, hey, I don't really 114 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 4: feel like eating Italian tonight. Yeah, I really would like 115 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 4: to have sushi. That's a preference, right, That's not going 116 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 4: to end your marriage probably, And if your person was like, 117 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 4: I really can't, let's meet in the middle, let's have burgers, 118 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 4: you'd be like, okay, Like that's not the end of 119 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 4: the world. But your preferences matter though, And I think 120 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 4: a lot of us who want to be like you 121 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 4: know me, I'm easy, breezy, no fuss, no musk. Whatever 122 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 4: you guys want to do is good. Like, we get 123 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 4: habituated into these behaviors that are self abandoning in a 124 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 4: way that we're unaware of because we don't want any conflict, right, 125 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 4: we just don't even want to deal with asserting ourselves. 126 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 4: But I'm going to get to the fallout from not 127 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 4: asserting ourselves all right, So let's finish the categories of boundaries. 128 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 4: So you have your preferences, your limits, right, like your 129 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 4: friends like, can you come help me move all day 130 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 4: on Saturday from six am to midnight. No I cannot. 131 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 4: So a limit would say I have three hours I 132 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 4: can help you from twelve to three. I hope that's home, okay, right, 133 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 4: that's a limit. Desires are like sort of bigger things 134 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 4: in your life, like where you want to live and 135 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: what matters to you and again sholds around, yes exactly. 136 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 4: Childre are not children, but they're still important because again, 137 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: as you're going to see as we go through this process, 138 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 4: your limits, your preferences, your desires, and your deal breakers 139 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: they're not just your boundaries, they're also the qualities in 140 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 4: you that make you uniquely you, so they're really important. 141 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 4: And deal breakers. Last one is deal breakers, which this 142 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 4: is just that is non negotiable, no negotiable either way. Right, Like, 143 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 4: if you're someone who's getting in a relationship with someone 144 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 4: and you must have children, that's non negotiable. Do me 145 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 4: a favorite. Don't date people who are like, I'm on 146 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 4: the fence. Forget it. That's a problem. Date people who 147 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 4: you know want kids. But a lot of times we'll 148 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 4: be like, oh, they're so nice, I'm gonna wait and 149 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 4: see they're going to change their mind. Maybe not, Like 150 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 4: so we have to be committed to our deal breakers, 151 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 4: or for me, dating someone in recovery because I'm in 152 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 4: recovery was I didn't want that. That would have been 153 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 4: a deal breaker. Just one addict, one recovering addict in 154 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 4: my relationships is enough, Even though my friends would be like, 155 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 4: you're single and you're so picky, you don't want to 156 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 4: date anyone in recovery work? Are you judging people in recovery? 157 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 4: I'm like no, no. 158 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: I'm meant you're like no, but you are. 159 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 4: Exactly like. And also, my deal breakers are my business. 160 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 4: It's mine, right. I don't need to convince anyone of anything, right, 161 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 4: and neither do you. Yeah you know, neither do you. 162 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 4: So anyway, according to Terry Cole, those are your boundaries. 163 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: I love that because well the first when I mean 164 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: were talking about preferences, you mentioned the words self abandoning, 165 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: and I think that that is such a big word 166 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to boundary because what you said, even 167 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: with preferences is like the Italian restaurant, for example, I 168 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: actually can do that. I'll be like, oh, I'll find 169 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: something on every menu. But before long in a relationship, 170 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: if you do that over and over and over again, 171 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: you don't even exist, like you're what you like, what 172 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: who you are just becomes like melded into who the 173 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: other person is and before you know it, and I'm 174 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: saying this because I've done it a million times, you're 175 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: living in their life and your life is like no 176 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: longer even there to be found, so you're just completely 177 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: lost because you're. 178 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 3: You're there, you become a people pleaser, yeah yeah. 179 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 4: And you're already yeah, you already are a people pleaser 180 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 4: if you're doing that right, right, I think. 181 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: It's probably important to say too, like it is fine 182 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: sometimes to be like, you know what, like tonight, I 183 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: really don't have an opinion, like whatever you want, Like 184 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: that's fine to do occasionally, but I think when you 185 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: but it's also important to remember that when you are 186 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 2: craving something, it's okay to be like, you know what, 187 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: I'm really I would love sushi tonight. And you have 188 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: to find the happy medium there. You don't want to 189 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: be the person who's like always putting your foot down 190 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: to and saying like no, no, I don't want that. 191 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: I don't want that because you have to be open 192 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: to other people's boundaries too and preferences. 193 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 4: Right, If you with someone like I care I have 194 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 4: a hankering for a chicken pop pie, I care about it. 195 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 4: I may not want to eat that, but again, I'll 196 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 4: find something on that menu because he wants to. And 197 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: I may not like chicken pop pie, but I really 198 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 4: like him. 199 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. That Actually did that make me smell? 200 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: So that's like, I think that's the best mentality in 201 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: a relationship. 202 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: Though. 203 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: It's like you care about him, and so that's what 204 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: compromise or showing up in the relationship looks like. But 205 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: there's a difference between that and doing it all the 206 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: time to where like if he's meeting you there, like 207 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: if he's doing that for you too, that's great. But 208 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: like I've found myself in a lot of situations where 209 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: I do that and I'm like, oh, I care about 210 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: this person, but then I don't even realize, like it's 211 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: not being matched, you know, So it becomes that one 212 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: sided dynamic, and so these four things are really just 213 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: kind of thrown out the window because I'm just showing 214 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: up to the place that I'm not being met there, 215 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. 216 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, And you're also not you're not inviting anyone 217 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 4: to meet you there. You're literally closing the door on 218 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 4: getting your needs met. You you're the one just slamming 219 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 4: the door and being like, cool, what you want? Cool, 220 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 4: what you want? Right now, I'm the cool girl. It 221 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 4: is the beginning of a relationship. I'mzy. Everything is fine 222 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 4: until it's not, because that is a slow boat to bitterland, 223 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 4: which is like the only stop on that boat. Right, 224 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 4: there's nowhere else to go because none of us can 225 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 4: be invisible for a long period of time and not 226 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 4: become resentful. The way to think about your personal boundaries 227 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 4: is your own personal rules of engagement, and it's how 228 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 4: we let other people know what's okay with us and 229 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 4: what's not okay with us. And there's a way to 230 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 4: do it. And it's always possible to be kind. Yeah, 231 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 4: like Bob from accounting and he is a total jerk, 232 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 4: then you don't need to be kind, right, you could 233 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 4: be you could have a little more heat to the Yeah, 234 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 4: exactly Byob. But I think that the myths that are 235 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 4: around having healthy boundaries, it's like you are saying no 236 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 4: all the time. Kind of what you said Chip, like 237 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 4: the person who's like M constantly, I'm going to assert 238 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 4: what I want all the time, I'm punching people in 239 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 4: the face. Verbally, I'm blocking people out. I'm rejecting people. 240 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 4: That's not true at all, doesn't have to be. And 241 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 4: if someone is doing that, they're not a boundary boss. 242 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 4: They're a boundary. 243 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: Bully, which is not the same, not the same. 244 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 245 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 2: I want to give an example, Like so, I have 246 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: a recent recently started dating this guy and he loves 247 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: Mexican food, and last night we had dinner and like 248 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: we we now eat Mexican food a lot because he 249 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: liked I actually loved Mexican food too. I wasn't really 250 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: in the mood for it last night, but he would 251 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: like had a hankering for it, and so I said sure. 252 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: You know, I just wanted to spend time with him. 253 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: But in hindsight, I look back and I tried. 254 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: Because I wasn't really in the mood for Mexican food, 255 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: I didn't want what I normally order, so I got 256 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 2: adventurous with the menu last night and I tried things 257 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 2: that I'd never had, and when I left, I was 258 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: really happy that I'd had Mexican food. So, you know, 259 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: I do think sometimes like I didn't feel like I 260 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: was you know, relinquishing any boundaries. I just literally didn't 261 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 2: have much in an opinion last night except for I 262 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: wanted him to have what he wanted. So I do 263 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: think there are those moments in our lives that we 264 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: can look at, like, if we don't have a hard 265 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: line reason to say no, then it's okay to like 266 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: sort of lean into what you're not sure of because 267 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: you might learn something about. 268 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 4: Yourself without a doubt. But you know, chip what you 269 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 4: see more often than not is people, especially people pleasers 270 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 4: with the disease to please, who are a conflict avoidant, 271 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 4: who fear rejection, that they're not worried about that part 272 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 4: of it because they're they're always doing that. They're always 273 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 4: thinking of the other person, always self abandoning in service 274 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 4: in their mind, in service of being loving, in service 275 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 4: of the relationship, and service of being kind. And so 276 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 4: the mutuality that you're talking about. So the guy you're 277 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 4: dating last night had hankering, You're like, I kind of don't, 278 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 4: but I could kind of find it's not a big deal. 279 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: I don't feel put upon by this. And again, those 280 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 4: are conscious choices that you make, and your point was 281 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 4: well taken that you have like a culinary adventure because 282 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 4: you didn't feel like what you normally ate and it 283 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 4: ended up kind of being interesting to you. And there's 284 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: no problem with that. It's making choices that are mindful 285 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 4: and not compulsive, not driven by fear, not unconscious, which 286 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 4: is what so much of the time they are, especially 287 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 4: when you're a people pleaser right right, You're you're literally 288 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 4: your default position is is cool. 289 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: Right, And I suffer from that, like I suffer from rejection. 290 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 3: I want to keep people happy. 291 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: I'm non confrontational, and I mean this, this relationship is 292 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: new to me, so I am trying. I'm making and 293 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: we can get into this in a minute too, like 294 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: my word of the year's Purpose, which I'm wearing this today, 295 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: my Justin Bieber purpose sweatshirt that I ordered for eBay, 296 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: but I am I want to be very purposeful in it. 297 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 5: So I am like, I'm trying to not be a 298 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 5: people pleaser whilst also still leaning in and like wanting 299 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 5: to get to know him and know what his desires 300 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 5: and his preferences and all of those things are too, 301 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 5: because I think that's important, especially in a romantic relationship. 302 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: You know, obviously there are boundaries that exist in the workspace. 303 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: And and family relationships and those sorts of things. But 304 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: I think in the beginning, particularly for me, of this 305 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: romantic relationship, like I'm learning my boundaries within that sphere. Yes, 306 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: as it pertains to this one particular relationship. 307 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 4: Yes, But I have a question for you. So you 308 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 4: want to get to know your person, you're interested in them, 309 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 4: I want them to get to know you, right, So 310 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 4: where is this space? Because here's what ends up happening 311 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 4: a lot of times when we are as you described, 312 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 4: and I was exactly the same, So I totally get it. 313 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: Conflict avoidant and just want it to be smooth, and 314 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 4: want to be accepted and want to be loved. Of course, 315 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 4: this is literally what we all want. So really it's like, 316 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 4: how much of the time do you become sort of 317 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 4: an expert listener an expert interviewer? Like I can't tell 318 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 4: you how many conversations I hid behind, like never revealing 319 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 4: anything about myself because I was so good at getting 320 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 4: other people to talk about themselves. Oh, tell me more 321 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 4: about that, and what about this? And then what happened? 322 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 4: And partly because I didn't want to be vulnerable Unconsciously 323 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 4: this was a conscious but partly because I wanted to 324 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 4: have control, yeah, of the conversation, and I wanted it 325 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 4: to go smoothly, and I was worried about a pregnant pause. 326 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 4: And does that make sense? 327 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: Really, it's like your own way of trying to get 328 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: safety in a situation. 329 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 4: And all boundary issues, right, things are boundary issues. 330 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: I was looking earlier. I was telling you, I was 331 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: talking your instagram, which also has a really great instagram. 332 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: If you guys struggle with boundaries. I highly suggested I'll 333 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: put it in the description of this podcast that under 334 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: your bio you say helping women liberate themselves with boundaries 335 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: to break the cycle of overfunctioning. And I was like, 336 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: whoa shots fired? Terry, Like, I feel like you to 337 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: call me, but I wanted to know because that is me, 338 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: like the overfunctioning until I literally like, my life is 339 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: falling apart because I'm overfunctioning in a relationship to try 340 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: to maintain things because I think it's going to make 341 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: it work or whatever. But do women struggle with that 342 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: more than men? I was wondering why you specifically address 343 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: women in your bio. 344 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm more of an expert. I would say 345 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: women in bath right, that that's more of my audience 346 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 4: for us than straight men. You're like, well, hello, and 347 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 4: I do think you know. Part of my actually the 348 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 4: next book that I'm writing right now is about high 349 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 4: functioning codependency, Yeah, which is basically what you what resonated 350 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 4: with you, that whole high functioning piece. And the reason 351 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 4: because the foundation of high functioning codependency or any codependency 352 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 4: is disordered boundaries. Right, And when you think about it, 353 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 4: even though most people don't think about it this way, 354 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 4: at its real base, tendency is an overt or a 355 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 4: covert bid to control the outcomes of others. Right. It 356 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: means you are overly invested in the feeling states, the situations, 357 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 4: the circumstances, the jobs, the relationships, the decisions of the 358 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 4: people in your life to the detriment of your own 359 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 4: internal peace and maybe your psychological well being, maybe financial wellbeing, 360 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 4: spiritual wellbeit for all of the things. 361 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 362 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 4: So when I started my practice, I was attracting a 363 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 4: lot of women who are like me, which are highly capable, 364 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 4: very high functioning. And so when I would say, oh, hey, 365 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 4: what I'm seeing this is a codependent dynamic, they would 366 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 4: be like, yeah, no, you're wrong. Lady, you misunderstand what's happening. 367 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: You don't know what your job is it because they 368 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: think of codependent, They're like, no, I'm independent. Look at 369 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: all the stuff I'm doing, because that's what I first thought. 370 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm in recovery for coindependency. So this has been a 371 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: journey for me as well. But is that what they 372 00:19:59,560 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: were thinking? 373 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 4: Being like, well, they were like, I'm not dependent on 374 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 4: squat exactly. I am the one that everyone comes to. 375 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 4: I'm making all the dough, I'm supporting. 376 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: All the problems. 377 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 4: I'm fixing all the problems. I'm the rock in my family. 378 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 4: How can you insult me by telling me I'm codependent? 379 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 4: So after years of this same response, I needed a 380 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 4: way to get in to my people because they were suffering. Yeah, like, 381 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 4: you're not going to stop suffering until we can identify 382 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 4: what it actually is and then change the behavior. And 383 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 4: so I coined a new phrase. Because there are differences 384 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 4: between regular old melody baby codependent no more got to 385 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 4: be involved with an addict enabling codebeddancy and the high 386 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 4: functioning codependency. So as soon as I came up with 387 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 4: this name, then my clients were like, oh, it definitely. 388 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 4: Everyone then was leaning in and being like, oh my god, 389 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 4: that is me and holy crap, I'm exhausted. 390 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting because I love that you're talking 391 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: about that, because I find like, even when I say, oh, 392 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm in recovery for codependency, people are like, what you're not, 393 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: Because I like am a high functioning human in the 394 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: areas of my life until it falls apart. But that's 395 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: been the thing is like, you know, I can do 396 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: a lot of things, and I can do a lot 397 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: of jobs and like show up and so it doesn't 398 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: look like like I'm not sitting around just like waiting 399 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: for a man to fix my life. You know. If anything, 400 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: it's the opposite in most cases. But that's where people 401 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: get codependency wrong. And so it's really interesting to hear 402 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times we think like 403 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: we're doing something kind for someone else, and it's really 404 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: like the people pleasing and the overfunctioning and all this stuff, 405 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: it's really for us. And that's like, it's a big 406 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: thing that I've had to really accept, is like that's 407 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: not the kind generous thing to do for them right now, 408 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: actually saying no or holding a boundary or not doing 409 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: it for them, and like a lot, allowing the space 410 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: to do it for themselves is the kindest thing we 411 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: can do for other people. 412 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 4: Agreed. But think about it this way. When people come 413 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 4: to us and they've had a problem and we're just 414 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 4: auto fixing our asses off, we just cannot wait to 415 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 4: get in and be like, I've got a book recommendation, 416 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 4: I'm gonna help me up with my friend who's a doctor. 417 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 4: I've got I'm on Google right now, find answers for you. 418 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: It's yes, I did a podcast about this, and yeah. 419 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 4: Here's who you should follow. It's going to be great. 420 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 4: But what we're doing, and this was so humbling for 421 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 4: me to really get, is that we're centering ourselves in 422 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 4: the middle of the person's problem. Now your problem is 423 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 4: just about me? Is the solution. I've got it. You're 424 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 4: good because I'm uncomfortable with you being in pain, so 425 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 4: I need I'm compulsively trying to fix my own discomfort 426 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 4: with your pain right So there, it is so distressing 427 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 4: to me that you're in pain that I'm I can't 428 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 4: even stop myself right until you're in recovery. It's like 429 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 4: I couldn't even stop myself from making suggestions, from lending money, 430 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 4: from doing all the crap. But when my therapist was like, 431 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 4: I had a situation with one of my sisters who 432 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 4: was in a terrible abusive situation. Literally no exaggeration, no 433 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 4: filter needed, living in the woods in a house that 434 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 4: had no running water or electricity, with a guy who 435 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 4: was doing crack and being physically abusive. That's the actual situation. Yeah, 436 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 4: so this is very bad and very bad when your 437 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 4: code abandon because I couldn't. I was obsessed with like 438 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 4: saving her from herself, from her choices from him. I mean, 439 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 4: all the revenge fantasy is all the money that I 440 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 4: threw at it. And I remember calling my talking to 441 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 4: my therapist and I was crying and being like I 442 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 4: just can't take it. She tells me how terrible he 443 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 4: is to her and how abusive he is and he's 444 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 4: hitting her, and you know what am I gonna do? 445 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 4: And she was like, terror, what are you gonna do? 446 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 4: I was like yeah, yeah, Like what am I going 447 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 4: to do? She's like yeah, okay. So then she explained, 448 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 4: She's like, listen, do you do you know what's going 449 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 4: on here? And I was like, uh no, but clearly 450 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 4: not by what you're saying, So how about just fill 451 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 4: me in? And she said, you've worked for twenty years 452 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 4: to create a lot of internal peace and you have 453 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 4: a pretty harmonious life. Your sister's dumpster fire of a 454 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 4: life is really messing with your peace, and you want 455 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 4: it to stop, right, You want it to stop, so 456 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 4: you want to fix that so you can go back 457 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 4: to your like unicorns and butterflies. 458 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: That's a good point. It's so true, and like are 459 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: oftentimes too, Like if someone's going through something, you know, 460 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: like they're not themselves and so you're like, I just 461 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: need you to get back to normal so that we 462 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: can go like that's fun again and live our lives 463 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing too. 464 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 4: Yep. But what I love though, and the end of 465 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 4: the end is I was like, I didn't know I 466 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 4: had a choice. So this is another thing with high 467 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 4: functioning codependency or any codependency. I literally did not know 468 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 4: that I was allowed to not throw myself under that 469 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 4: bus on a daily basis. I didn't know. So I 470 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 4: said to my therapist, so what do you mean. She's like, Sarah, 471 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 4: you need boundaries and you need to communicate them with 472 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 4: your sister and tell her it's too painful for you 473 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 4: to talk to her all the time. Well, she's in 474 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 4: this situation. And then I said, but I want to 475 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 4: help her if she wants to get out, like, I 476 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 4: still want to be her person. She's like, then say 477 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 4: that called my sister told her. Within nine months, I'd 478 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 4: say maybe. We talked twice, and at the end of 479 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 4: nine months, she was like, HI, if your offer still stands, 480 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 4: I want to get the buck out of here. And 481 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 4: I was like, I'm getting in my car right now, 482 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 4: went and picked her up. My husband and I had 483 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 4: this little lake house. We let her live there for 484 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 4: two years, like winter rised it for her. Just she 485 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 4: went back to school, she got sober. She but here's 486 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 4: the most important part of this story is that it 487 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 4: was because I was the hero in her story. It 488 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 4: was because she was the hero in her story. So 489 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 4: the changes that she made stuck because they weren't about 490 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 4: her pleasing me. It was about her reaching that bottom 491 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 4: that you have to reach to decide you're going to 492 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 4: change your life and then appropriately asking for the help 493 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 4: that I said would be there. So that was a 494 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 4: win win, even though those nine months were long and 495 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 4: that was hard to do. But that is exactly what 496 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 4: you were saying before about you know, kel you were 497 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 4: saying before about like the loving thing to do? Yeah, 498 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 4: is not making her situation about. 499 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: Me, right, because I mean when we're talking more about 500 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: I guess addiction specific situations. But I think people can 501 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: apply this to any sort of toxic dynamic in your 502 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, people in your life. If you're observing that 503 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: it feels cruel to be like I can't pull you 504 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: out of this and fix this for you, Like you 505 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: have to do that for yourself or to me, it 506 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: does like, yeah, I'm like I love this person, why 507 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't that help them? But you made such a good 508 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: point of like it doesn't stick unless they are the 509 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: ones to do it for themselves. And that's what I 510 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: think a lot of people in recovery learn along the way, 511 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: is like, especially if people are deciding to get sober, 512 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: like I can't make anybody get sober, it's not going 513 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: to stop. It's not going to like fix it for them. 514 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 4: But also robbing them of their sovereignty. And I think 515 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 4: that that's something that's really important. Why shouldn't I help them? 516 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,479 Speaker 4: What makes you think you know what they should do? 517 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: Right? Like I'm not. 518 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 4: God. Well, that's my therapist said into my face. She 519 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 4: was like, what makes you think you know what lessons 520 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 4: your sister needs to learn? In this Les's exactly right? 521 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 4: And I was like, what do you mean? I don't 522 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 4: think she needs to live in a house without running water? 523 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 4: And she's like, hey, well you don't, are you? God is? 524 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 4: Do you know how she's going to learn? You don't, 525 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 4: And so it's so presumptuous to think, like I know 526 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 4: what you should do. I don't know what you should do, 527 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 4: but I love you and I'm here and I'll listen 528 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 4: and I'll do whatever I can do. But it's it's 529 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 4: like that shifted it as well, because I felt the 530 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 4: same way about like, she's my sister. How can I 531 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 4: not Yeah, my therapist was like, but you can't eat this. 532 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 4: What you have in your mind that you think you're 533 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 4: doing is an illusion of controllatory it's not real. You 534 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 4: don't have control. Your sister's going to change when and 535 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 4: if she reaches a point of pain, tipping point where 536 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 4: she's willing the pain of leaving, right, the pain of 537 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 4: staying is overpowering the pain of leaving. 538 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: I have a question, because you know we talked a 539 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: lot about this ship the last couple of months. My 540 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry the last couple of weeks that was the 541 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: wrong word. My word for this year in general is 542 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: dare and ship's this purpose and so we've really applied 543 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: all of our topics this month to that. And it 544 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: was funny because, like when I was talking to your 545 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: rep about doing a podcast, I was like, actually, this 546 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: is the perfect time because to me, boundaries are literally 547 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: the most daring thing that I'm doing in my life 548 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: right now. And some people might be like, what, that's ridiculous, 549 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: but when you know my journey of that, Like I 550 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: remember when I first started recovery, I set a boundary 551 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: and I sobbed for hours after setting it, like it 552 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: was the and it was so simple, like I can't 553 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: go to lunch with you, and the person was like okay, 554 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, you know it was. It broke me. 555 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: And then there's the other side of it that I 556 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: do where I'll wait, i'll wait, i'll wait, I'll stuff 557 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: all stuff, all stuff, and then I explode. It's like 558 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: the only way I can set of boundaries if I'm 559 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: so angry that I can't function. So can you talk 560 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: a little bit to people who might be listening that 561 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: are like me, or they resonate with that, where it's 562 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: just like the simplest things even can seem so overwhelming 563 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: and so like setting a boundary can be daring. Why 564 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: is that? Like why are they so hard? 565 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 4: Because we're afraid and because it's the little well, it's 566 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: the kid. All of us have children within, right, And 567 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 4: trust me, before I became a psychotherapist, I was like 568 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 4: what No, Yeah, like I had no I had no 569 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 4: love for the child within John Bradshaw's stuff until I 570 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 4: became a therapist, and then I was like, oh my god, 571 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 4: this is so important. This is so true that all 572 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 4: of us have the little kid us where you know, 573 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 4: we've had different experiences at different phases of development that 574 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 4: make us vulnerable to different disordered types of relationships in 575 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 4: adulthood or relationships to substances or whatever it is. So 576 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 4: it's so hard because it's the six year old you 577 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 4: who can't just like hitch it out of there to 578 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 4: go like rent an airbnb, right, Like we're kids are 579 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 4: the most you know, the ultimate captive audience where whatever 580 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 4: was going on in the family of origin, we figured 581 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 4: out how to survive that the good, the bad, the disordered, 582 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,959 Speaker 4: the dysfunctional, the painful, the abuse of the addicted. And 583 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 4: so when you're having that experience, that crying experience, that 584 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 4: isn't the adult to you. That's the little kid you 585 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 4: who could never do it in childhood and has waited. 586 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 4: Not just you waiting four months to do it with 587 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 4: this person, it's you waiting forty years to do it 588 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 4: or thirty years to do it in your life. And 589 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 4: so the way that I teach it in Boundary Boss, 590 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 4: the book itself, is there's a way to create proactive 591 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 4: boundary plans, but you do a whole internal deep dive 592 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 4: before that. So identifying anybody listening who's like, I don't 593 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 4: even know where to start, but help it seems so overwhelming, 594 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 4: Which is what everyone says when we talk about boundaries, 595 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 4: is I will invite you to do something that's super 596 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 4: quick to do. Do a resentment inventory, because that's going 597 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 4: to tell you where you need a boundary, or where 598 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 4: you haven't been asserting a boundary, or where you've asserted 599 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 4: a boundary and the person is violating the boundary. Right, 600 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 4: a need is going unmet. If we are feeling resentful 601 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 4: in relationships, some need of ours is going unmecked. 602 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: So if you're that statement, y'all think about that. Though. 603 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: If you're mad, like if you're feeling resentful, it's because 604 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: a need is not getting met. I think a lot 605 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: of times we want to make it about the other person. 606 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: You said this at the beginning, it's about us and 607 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: it's about our need not being met. Sorry to cut 608 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: you off, I just correct touch a good point. 609 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 4: No, no, no, I think that it's really important, and I 610 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 4: agree with you co I don't think that people look 611 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 4: at it from that way. It's almost like we look 612 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 4: at relationships in this very two dimensional way. It's like 613 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 4: you're wrong and I'm right. You stepped out on me, 614 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 4: so now you're the bad one, and now you could 615 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 4: make it up to me. But like in this two 616 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 4: dimensional way, but there is always a parallel process going 617 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 4: on underneath whatever is happening on the surface. So if 618 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 4: you find yourself in a repeated situation where you're like, wow, 619 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 4: I'm in another relationship with an unavailable person, How the 620 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 4: hell did I get here? Again? There is something that 621 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 4: you are repeating, right, Because there's this great Christine Obah 622 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 4: has this great quote. We repeat. What we do not repair, 623 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 4: and that is a fact, especially when it comes to relationships. 624 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 4: So any repeated thing in your life where you're like, 625 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 4: how am I have no money again? How am I 626 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 4: say I'm gonna work out and didn't do it again? 627 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 4: Or I'm going to stop drinking during the week and 628 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 4: I keep drinking during the week, Like how am I 629 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 4: here again? I'm going to give you, guys, three questions 630 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 4: that you can ask yourself to get clarity on what 631 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 4: is actually happening. Because as human beings, we can only 632 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 4: talk things out or act things out. So if you 633 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 4: have this repeated situation that you're like, why am I 634 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 4: here again, you're acting something out that if we can 635 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 4: identify the original injury, you then have the option to 636 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 4: talk it out, to journal it out, to write it out, 637 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 4: to talk to your friend, to get into therapy, like 638 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 4: there's all kinds of things, But this stuff is in 639 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 4: your unconscious mind. This is like in the basement of 640 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 4: your mind. So the questions are this, if you find 641 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 4: yourself in a relationship, let's say, with an unavailable person again, 642 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 4: you say, who does this person remind me of? Okay, 643 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 4: where have I felt like this before? And how or 644 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 4: why is the behavioral dynamic the way I'm interacting with them, 645 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 4: the way they're interacting with me. How is that familiar? 646 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 4: Because you may have witnessed it, it doesn't mean you 647 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 4: had to have experienced it yourself. Maybe you saw that 648 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 4: dynamic with the adults that raised you. You know what 649 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 4: I mean, we could still be playing out those things. 650 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm processing because yeah, go ahead, Tchip well, I. 651 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 3: Mean, I. 652 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,479 Speaker 2: Don't know if this is a huge gearshift, just say 653 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 2: so we can get to it. But like I'm thinking, 654 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: when I'm listening, I'm hearing a lot about myself, but 655 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 2: I'm also thinking about the work that I do. And 656 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: I work in music management, so we basically there's a 657 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 2: lot of serving other people. 658 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 3: You know. 659 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: What's what she was saying at the beginning, I'm. 660 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 3: A professional codependent, you know. 661 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 2: And yes, so you know it's obviously it's like you know, 662 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 2: and I do. I love what I do, so I 663 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: don't mean for that to sound negative. But I'm also, like, 664 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 2: you know, mindful of how much I work, and especially 665 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: in going into this new relationship. 666 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 3: I'm in an album really cycled. 667 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I just need you to know the 668 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 2: next four weeks are going to be insane for me, 669 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 2: and it's but I want to like be purposeful and 670 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: make as much time for him as possible. 671 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 3: And I don't even know what that's going to look 672 00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 3: like yet, you know. 673 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: So I'm just wondering, like the difference between like when 674 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: it's romantic and professional, Like how much harder should we 675 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: expect boundaries to be? Because when it affects your livelihood 676 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 2: and you being able to pay your mortgage and put 677 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 2: suit on your table, I would imagine that as a 678 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: different level of stress than like having to find another 679 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: significant other, especially if it's your you know, your serial 680 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 2: data or whatever it is. And you know, obviously if 681 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 2: you're in a committed marriage. 682 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 3: Or something, it's a different level of stress. But yeah, 683 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 3: I'm just curious. 684 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing about being a professional codependent, Yes, agreed. 685 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 4: People in the service industry, who do I see in 686 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 4: my in my practice so much, you know, trauma nurses 687 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 4: like people who life is service, that's what it is, 688 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 4: and that mindset is melding into their personal life. So 689 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 4: the first thing is mindfulness. And you can also be 690 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 4: in a you can be in a service industry and 691 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 4: have boundaries, right, you can actually be healthy because what 692 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 4: I find in working with I mean a lot of 693 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 4: the people I've worked with, super high profile people, is that, 694 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 4: especially in my private practice now right where it's like 695 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 4: they respect me being honest and not being like everyone else. 696 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 4: It's like the Elvis syndrome. This is what they you know, 697 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 4: when I would always be counseling like high profile people 698 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 4: about you have to watch out for the Elvis syndrome, 699 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 4: which is that if you surround yourself with all of 700 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 4: these bottom suckers who are there for money, who don't 701 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 4: give a crap about you, nobody is telling you the 702 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 4: truth about what you're doing, how you're acting, how you're 703 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 4: impacting others. Nobody but I will, and maybe you'll fire me, 704 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 4: and that's okay. But I'm telling you right now now, 705 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 4: I'm not saying with doing what you're doing, you're gonna 706 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 4: like be you know, serving someone that information. But I 707 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 4: also think it's okay to not take someone's phone call 708 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 4: at two in the morning, or to not be available 709 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, because the unrealistic lives, the how 710 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 4: demanding people who have this crazy power in our society 711 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 4: and working with and I've worked with all different kinds 712 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 4: from pop stars to professional athletes, where it's like not 713 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 4: real life, right, right, not real life, and everyone is like, 714 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 4: you're so amazing, and I don't want you know, it's 715 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 4: all about you being happy person, and I'm like, why 716 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 4: to stop it? 717 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 3: Right? 718 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 4: First of all, happiness is not a destination. This is 719 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 4: just moments of happiness. That's kind even normal to think that. 720 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 4: And wait a minute, this is called just because in 721 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 4: your life everything is instant gratification. That's not life, and 722 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 4: that's that's not a life that I want to be 723 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 4: involved with. So I think that one thing is to 724 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 4: look at how your behavior you're in your work, or 725 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 4: are there places where you can sort of tighten up 726 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 4: your preferences, your limits and your boundaries. That makes sense, right, 727 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 4: We're not talking about extremes, right when you're not telling 728 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 4: off like the lead singer of whatever. Right, it's not that. 729 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 4: It's about how are you taking care of yourself while 730 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 4: you're expending so much bandwidth towards the service of others, right, 731 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 4: so upping the self care. And then there has to 732 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 4: be a delineation between work and boyfriend land, work and home, 733 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 4: work and real life where in your own mind, I 734 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 4: always have my clients go through some kind of a 735 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 4: ritual where you're like energetically leaving the day, change change 736 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 4: to a different hoodie right when you get tonight, time 737 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 4: is now we're going to have a different hurdey for 738 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 4: we're going around to Mexico or or just a different 739 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 4: justin Bieber, so that energetically we're sort of moving into 740 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 4: the next place. And really, again, Chip, going back to 741 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 4: what you were saying, you can check your urgency around things, 742 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 4: you can check your resentment because if we're feeling really 743 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 4: urgent around doing something for someone, or like someone has 744 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 4: a problem and the urgency suddenly their problem has like 745 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 4: lit a fire in my chest where it now is 746 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 4: literally my problem. Now I'm not talking about work there, 747 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 4: I'm talking about home because sometimes your client's problem is 748 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 4: your problem if it's your job to fix it. Right. 749 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 4: So again, we need discernment in the workspace around boundaries, 750 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 4: but in home life and romantic life it's the mindfulness piece, 751 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 4: which is why I'm a meditation teacher and i have 752 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 4: meditation CDs and I'm on insight timer with a million 753 00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 4: meditations because it's such an important part of people being 754 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 4: healthy is having some internal stillness and silence, which gives 755 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 4: you about two seconds more reaction time, right, so you're 756 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 4: not on autopilot because it's so easy to just as 757 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 4: my teacher David g would say, wake up, earn through 758 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 4: the day, drop and do it all over again. 759 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: You know, I think that's so good too. I love 760 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: all of that because also taking the time to pause 761 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: or meditate or any of that stuff. It goes back 762 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: to what we were talking about with self abandoning, Like 763 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: when you're sitting with yourself in those moments, you're actually 764 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: able to say, like, what is going on for me? 765 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: And like when I can identify it within myself, whether 766 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: it's work where I'm struggling because Chip and I both 767 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: work in the same industry, or relationships, I mean, they're 768 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: all the same to me. I struggle in all of it. 769 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: I realized I didn't realize it, but it just it's 770 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: all crossover. If you don't do boundaries, you just don't 771 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: do them in any of your life. But so when 772 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: I sit with myself, I can say, like, why am 773 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: I resentful? Why am I bitching about that person today? 774 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: And most of the time it's like you said, I 775 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: just need to set a boundary, and I can come 776 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: to a kind calm way to do that, you know, 777 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: if I sit with myself for a second, Yeah, do 778 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: you have tips? I know we were running out of time, 779 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 1: but do you have tips? And I'm sure the book 780 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 1: addresses this, but of how to clearly communicate because to me, 781 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: like boundaries are getting easier and instead of being in 782 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: the child place where I want to cry and I'm like, oh, 783 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: I don't know, just don't do that, it makes me that, 784 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: you know, I'm able to clearly communicate what I need 785 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: or what need I need am doing without even being 786 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: like aggressive with the other person about what it's not 787 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: about what they're doing. It's like this is me and 788 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: this statement or I'm probably not saying that right, But 789 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,280 Speaker 1: do you have tips for us to learn about boundaries 790 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: of like clearly communicating in an easy manner? 791 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 4: Of course I do. Yeah, And I mean there's a 792 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 4: whole chapter, okay in Boundary Boss, which people can get 793 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 4: at boundarybossbook dot com. And there's a whole bunch of 794 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 4: bonuses there too. But I created a whole chapter. But 795 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 4: I'll let let's talk about some easy frames and some 796 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 4: sentence starters that people can take away from this podcast. 797 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 4: Where the first thing is knowing what the problem is 798 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 4: and not doing what you said, not waiting until you're 799 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 4: a volcano the second you start feeling that bug in 800 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 4: your chest or your throat or wherever you get it. 801 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 4: Because we all are body. The wisdom of our bodies 802 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 4: is profound. Trust me, somebody says something, you don't say 803 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 4: anything at the moment, your body registered that shit immediately, 804 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 4: and if you think about it later, you're like, oh, 805 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 4: when did I start getting in a bad mood? Oh, 806 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 4: yeah it was, Yes, it's when Betty interrupted me during 807 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 4: the team meeting and stole my thunder right or whatever 808 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 4: the thing is. We identify what it is and the sooner, 809 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 4: like as soon as a boundary violation or you don't 810 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 4: like something, I don't mean again it has to be 811 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 4: of minutia, right, But the sooner we can establish boundaries 812 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 4: right early, and often, I like to say especially in relationships, 813 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 4: because we're establishing how it's going to be. Yeah, So 814 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 4: if you're if you're dating someone and they go, hey, 815 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 4: i'll call you Friday, maybe we'll go out on Friday night. 816 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 4: Don't hear from them Friday. Then Monday they call their like, 817 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 4: how's the weekend, or they text you. Of course they 818 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 4: wouldn't even call. What am I saying? What is it? 819 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,399 Speaker 4: Nineteen eighty? So they text you and they're like, how 820 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 4: is your weekend? Right? You can either collude with their 821 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 4: bullshit reality because they didn't do what they said they 822 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 4: were going to do, which is call you on Friday 823 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 4: and tell them how your weekend was, or you can say, oh, 824 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 4: when I didn't hear from you on Friday, I just 825 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 4: figured you flaked. I had a great weekend. How about you? Like, 826 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 4: you say something and we don't need to be all 827 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 4: agro about it, but you say something, and then if 828 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 4: it happens again, you're like, dude, here's the thing. I'm busy, Like, 829 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 4: you don't need to tell me you're gonna call me 830 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 4: on Friday. But if you do say I expect you 831 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 4: to keep your word. Now, yeah you would. You wouldn't 832 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 4: say it with the annoyance that I just said it with. 833 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 4: So let's talk about how how would we say it. 834 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, you think that was annoying, Terry note be mad. 835 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 4: So a really easy frame is I'd like to make 836 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 4: a simple request. Okay, So that's that's the beginning, right, 837 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 4: And this is used in martials. Work easy, Breezy. I'd 838 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 4: like to make a simple request that if you're going 839 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 4: to be more than ten minutes, let you text me 840 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 4: so I would have walked instead of taking an uber. 841 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 4: If I know you were going to be late, just 842 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 4: limit it. We're letting the person know. We don't have 843 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 4: to sit at the dinner all pissy, being withdrawn and anger, 844 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 4: giving one word answers to show them how mad we 845 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 4: are without saying how mad we are. Because life is short. 846 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 4: People like you don't need to spend any minutes of 847 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 4: your life doing that, but we do. You know what 848 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 4: I mean, So say it, you feel the annoyance, say it. 849 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 4: We're giving them an opportunity to do it. Hopefully the 850 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 4: next time they're going to be like they're like, hey, 851 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 4: if you want to walk, walk, I'm not going to 852 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,439 Speaker 4: be there at six fifteen. Great, thank you, And how 853 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 4: seen you feel, and how considered and loved you feel 854 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 4: when someone takes into consideration what you've asked them to do, 855 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 4: it's amazing. So by doing it, you're giving people the 856 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 4: opportunity to step up for you. And by holding resentment 857 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 4: and just filing it in that resentment file, cabinet. You're 858 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,879 Speaker 4: not letting them right, We're not giving them an opportunity. 859 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 4: I'd say for a lot of people though, with the 860 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 4: kind of disordered boundaries that you're talking about, cal and 861 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 4: really trip you too, is we want to stop the 862 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 4: auto Yes, that's probably one of the most powerful ways 863 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 4: that we can put the brakes on our disordered boundary 864 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 4: tendency or habituated patterns. So for seven days, no nothing, 865 00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 4: There'll be no thing that you say an immediate yes too, right. 866 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 4: I mean unless it's like your boyfriend's like, do you 867 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 4: want to go out for dinner? 868 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 3: Yes? 869 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,920 Speaker 4: Okay, so you don't have to get back to them 870 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 4: on that. But for most of us, where someone's like, oh, 871 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 4: can you help me with this project? Can you help 872 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,240 Speaker 4: me move? Can I borrow your car or your whatever 873 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 4: it is? Do you want to do? You want to 874 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 4: come to my house for dinner? Right? All of these 875 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,799 Speaker 4: things give yourself the luxury of time. Nobody need it's 876 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 4: an immediate answer from you. Literally, not one person needs it. 877 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 4: And so we you've trained people for what they can 878 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 4: expect from you, and now you're going to retrain them. 879 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 4: So for seven days, you're not giving any immediate yeses 880 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 4: to things. You're going to say that's correct. 881 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: In the middle of an album release, So what are 882 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: we going to say? 883 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 4: What are we going to say? Instead, we're going to 884 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,640 Speaker 4: buy time. We're going to say, oh, hey, you know what, 885 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 4: I need to check my schedule. I need to check 886 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 4: with my boyfriend my girlfriend. I'll get back to you tomorrow, 887 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 4: or I'll get back to you wednesday, or I've instituted 888 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 4: a twenty four hour decision making policy, so I'll let 889 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 4: you know by the end of day tomorrow. Right, Like, 890 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 4: for my own sanity, I need I'm not positive what 891 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 4: I'm doing. How about just I need to ef and 892 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,399 Speaker 4: think about it. Are we allowed to just think about 893 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 4: things because we're not sure that we want to do 894 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 4: whatever the thing is. 895 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 3: No. 896 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: I love giving the like time though what you just 897 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: said of like twenty four hours or end of day 898 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 1: or even if it was an hour, let me think 899 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: on that. I'll be back in an hour because then it, 900 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 1: like to me, calms the nervous system of the other 901 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 1: person too. And so there's not like like you're making 902 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: a commitment to show up. 903 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 4: It's just such a code of pic. No, it's not 904 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,319 Speaker 4: my job. I know it's my job, Oh my god, 905 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 4: to stop doing. 906 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 1: So like it doesn't do the thing where they're like, 907 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: h like, I know, we deal with that in work 908 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: because it is everything is so urgent. So when I 909 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: give people a time frame, they're like, okay, cool, yes 910 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 1: and listen, Yes, but we can call. 911 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 3: You're doing that for yourself? Is what you to be 912 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 3: thinking of? That? 913 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: That's all I need to think about, isn't that? 914 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:07,399 Speaker 4: Yes? Because it makes you less anxious. Yeah, to give 915 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 4: a timeframe because you're feeling like they won't come back 916 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,320 Speaker 4: to you again about it, or they won't be annoyed 917 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 4: about it. But again, be mindful. How you feel has 918 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,239 Speaker 4: to be the most important thing. And that doesn't mean 919 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 4: especially being in entertainment or music. I mean that requires 920 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:31,439 Speaker 4: so much diplomacy and so much strategy, social strategy in 921 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 4: that world. Dude, it's like I'm a spy. Like I 922 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 4: could literally be a spy, like so good at reading people, 923 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,240 Speaker 4: reading the room, reading a micro change in a facial expression, 924 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,160 Speaker 4: and then suddenly I would be like changing what I 925 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 4: was saying so that their unhappiness would go to happiness. Right, 926 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 4: So what I meant was like avoiding all of the 927 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 4: rejection and the pushback and yet at the expense of 928 00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 4: what so part of it is you have to have 929 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 4: boundaries there. And another thing I think you guys are 930 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 4: going to realize is that you can still do your jobs, 931 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,839 Speaker 4: you can still deliver, but people will have so much 932 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 4: more respect. 933 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: That's so true for you. 934 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,359 Speaker 2: I read I read a quote last week from Warren 935 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,319 Speaker 2: Buffett that said, the difference between successful people and really 936 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,240 Speaker 2: successful people is that really successful people say no most 937 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 2: of the time. 938 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 4: It's yes, so true. 939 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's really stuck with me. I'm not really 940 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 3: good at remembering quotes, but I remember. 941 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,279 Speaker 4: That one for me too. That's so deep. 942 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I need to read this book fully because 943 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: this is like obviously I'm shown my colors a couple 944 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,320 Speaker 1: of times. The book is called Boundary Boss, The Essential 945 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,400 Speaker 1: Guy to Talk, true, be seen, and finally live free. Terry, 946 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: Where else can people find you? Because I did mention 947 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: your Instagram? Will you tell them your handle? 948 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 4: Sure? Just at Terry Cole, which is Tterry Cole r 949 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,840 Speaker 4: r I co l E. I also have a gift 950 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,359 Speaker 4: for your audience, so they can they can find it 951 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 4: at Boundary Boss, dot me, forward slash velvet okay, and 952 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 4: it's about it. It's a video and it's a downloadable 953 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,920 Speaker 4: guide on boundaries and codependency. 954 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,439 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, well it goes to watch now. 955 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're gonna love it. 956 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like, please do you forgot? I love it? 957 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. This is so helpful you guys. 958 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: Go follow Terry on Instagram. Go check out the free gift. 959 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: Thank you for doing that. That's amazing. Sure, due Chip, 960 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: do you have any signing off things? I feel like 961 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: you got a purpose here. I think she gave you some. 962 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,319 Speaker 3: Yes. No, I think there's a lot there for me. 963 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 964 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 4: Well, thank you guys so much for having me. 965 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: Of course, thank you for being here, and thank you 966 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,720 Speaker 1: guys for listening.