1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: I watched Sense and Sensibility last night. I've never seen 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: it before. It's the version with Emma Thompson, Kate Winslet, 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Hugh Grant, Alan Rickman, and like ten other people who 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: were in harry Water. But it was so good and honestly, 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: I've never read Sensen Sensibility before, and like Jane Austen 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: kind of put her whole pussy into we're talking about 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: something that I love so much today, like truly one 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: of the foundational pieces of my personality. I was going 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: to say, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We've already talked about 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: so many things that are very formative to you, but 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: Buffy really is that thing. It is that thing. It 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: has shaped so much of who I am in the world. 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: And like, obviously that's complicated now because of the just 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Weeden of it all, but I'm really excited to dig 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: into Buffy and why it's so important, and like especially 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: the women of Buffy, like why why they're so important. 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: And there's no better person to have this conversation with 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: us than Evan russ Katz, who is a writer cultural critic. 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: Buffy correspond Buffy, Buffy Corresponded his story Buffy um who 20 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: is literally writing the book on Buffy. Um, and we're 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: so excited to talk about it with him today because 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: this is like a Virgin the show where we give 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm most damn you and 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: I'm Fran Toronto, and I'm feeling a sacred calling to 25 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: talk about what's going on in pop culture today. Um. So, 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: I woke up this morning to a cultural rest a shift. 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: I felt something in the air, smelled it. I felt 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: my breasthts were sore. So that's how I knew even 29 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: before I opened Twitter that Rihanna had done something and 30 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was not make an album. Correct. Yes, no, Um, 31 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: Rihanna is pregnant with her first child with I mean 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: the father I don't believe is like it's it's Rihanna's baby, 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: but it is with Asap Rocky who. I guess like 34 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: people thought that they had broken up maybe, but they 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: are expecting a child. I think your initial reaction was correct. 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: The father doesn't exist, um, and real is Madonna with child. 37 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: This is a sacred baby. The spirit of our Lord 38 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: and Savior has infimated her and betrothed to us, a 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: savior I missed the I missed the old days when 40 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: Rihanna used Twitter the way that the rest of us 41 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: used Twitter to like clap back at people, or like, 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, the iconic like good luck booking that stage 43 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: you speak of? Yeah, yeah, same, I missed the olden 44 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: days of Rihanna when she was releasing Anti, which is 45 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: the best Rihanna album. Sorry about it? Well, someone did 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: tweet this morning. Um how it was very wrong of 47 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: Rihanna to announce this news the week of the Anti 48 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: anniversary because it's just like solidifying the fact that we 49 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: are not getting an album like maybe ever again. Oh 50 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: my gosh, but we have Maybe the album needed Me 51 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite Rihanna songs of all time. 52 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: Love on the Brain higher like read. I like that 53 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: you are willfully ignoring Rihanna's baby and instead choosing to 54 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: have a retrospective for Anti. This is the only thing 55 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: I actually really need to must be Love on the Brain. 56 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: Why do I sing so much on this podcast? Yeah? 57 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. We're not trying to make because like, 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: I don't sing that much in real life. I think 59 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: our producers saying it's because we're musical theater girls. Yeah, 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: we are recovering, recovering, recovering, musical theater, musical theater girls, 61 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: to the tune of material Girls, I wanted to offer 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: you Rose a brief fran cap of Real Housewives of 63 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. Go ahead. First of all, there was 64 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: a huge I'm press release that I'm sure you saw 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: posted on all Bravo social media accounts about how Jenny, 66 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: the cast member of this franchise, who is maybe the 67 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: most boring housewife we've had in quite some time, was 68 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: fired for posting some really offensive things about black people 69 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: during the Black Lives Matter protests of I did see 70 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: that last week. I just wanted to bring this up 71 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: because obviously Jenny deserved the boot, and like, I am 72 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: glad that Bravo did something about it, But it has 73 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: to be said that Bravo only did this for opportunism 74 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: because they wanted to fire Jenny anyways, and so they 75 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: took this moment to post about why Jenny is a 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: bad girl and like dismissing her for her racism and 77 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: like she's no longer part of the show. I just 78 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: don't understand. I guess how the show is kind of 79 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: pulling its like racial politics together when like someone like 80 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: Ramona exists in Housewives like or when someone like Mary 81 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: who isn't going to be in the next season like 82 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: gets to go quietly. What I'm trying to say is, 83 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: like Bravo, not tolerate racism is like completely incoherent when 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: you look at the rest of like the House Lives 85 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: Cinematic University. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, And it's 86 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I think telling that the fall person for 87 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: this bad behavior is someone who isn't white exactly exactly 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: say that, not that any of her behavior is excusable, 89 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: but it really is very telling. Um. You know what's 90 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: moderately better background TV Paul's Drag Race, which I am 91 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: continuing to watch. What did you think of this week's episode? 92 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: And like j Lo's cameo quote, I mean, can cameo 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: is a generous term. It literally I mean we paid 94 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: her for They paid her for a cameo and set 95 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: her to script lots were I mean, I think it 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: says a lot about j Lo as a celebrity that 97 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: like when they have done the other pop girlies, they 98 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: are like a lot of times doing iconic like performance 99 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: looks or like music video looks for j Lo it's 100 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: a lot of like this red carpet that you've never 101 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: seen photos of from like two years ago. You know, 102 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: it's funny because j Loo is not necessarily as much 103 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: of a fashion queen as like when they did Night 104 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: of a Thousand Madonnas or Night of a Thousand Shares 105 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: or whatever. It kind of felt a little more lukewarm. 106 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: But I felt Willow Hills look was stunning, and I 107 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: thought that it was cute. She I think got the 108 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: assignment really well and that she found kind of an 109 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: ugo bagugo look that no one would remember and made 110 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: something that was very drag. I have to say, if 111 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: I see that fucking Versace dress one more time, I'm 112 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: going to claw my own eyes out. I don't care 113 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: that Carrie how the actual one that j Lo wore. 114 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: Like also that lip sync double elimination, they were both 115 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: bad and and I and I like, I am happy 116 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: to have Carrie stay, but I don't think she won 117 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: that lip sync. I agree, I don't think she won 118 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: the lip sync. I don't think either of them won. 119 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: But the other queen whose name I've already forgotten and 120 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: will not care to learn, Alissa Hunter. Please don't tell 121 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: me um, she definitely did worse than the challenge, but 122 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: if we're going off the lip sync, like she was 123 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: marginally better. If I were to get nitty gritty, Georgists 124 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: should have been in the bottom. I think she really 125 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: really tanked and Alyssa and Carrie, one of them should 126 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: have been saved from the bottom because I just don't 127 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: think that that was who our bottom two were. I 128 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: think they're both amazing performers in very different ways. I 129 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: think Alyssa is like such a show girl and I 130 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: appreciated her and felt like she should have gone further. 131 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: Carrie maybe giving a very timid performance and drag race 132 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: overall so far, but I do feel like she has 133 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: what it takes to be a much more fierce competitor 134 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: in face and in runway and in other components of 135 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: the show. But like the runways just don't matter in 136 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: the grand scheme of how they eliminate girls. And I 137 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: wish the judges would just say that, you know what 138 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean, like they are like low key my one 139 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: of my favorite parts of the show to watch. I agree, 140 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: and like you know, I don't really feel like giving 141 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: a ton of credit to someone who can afford an 142 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: archival Jennifer Lopez for Sacchy dress or I guess it's 143 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: not archival nineteen version, but it's like it still was 144 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: a stunning runway, and if you're in the bottom, that's 145 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: like that's gonna that's gonna save you, you know what 146 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean, Like she served and like the runways should 147 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: be factoring into how they evaluate these, which is why 148 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: the bottom two made me so upset. Still, double elimination, 149 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: I just always think it should be a double yeah 150 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: you or quadruple. Honestly, I would like to be eliminated. 151 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: I think before we move on to talking about Buffy, 152 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: like we should briefly touch on and just like that, 153 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: which today the season finale is out, um, but as 154 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: we are, you know, coming to from the past. We 155 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: haven't seen it yet. So based on where this penultimate 156 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: episode ended, Like, what are your predictions for the finale? 157 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: It's Samantha going to show up well, and I don't 158 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: think it's going to happen. I don't think so either. 159 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: I think that is like so far and beyond which 160 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: she's going to show up in a post credit scene 161 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: like Nick Fury at the end of the adventure. Yeah, 162 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. I I honestly, i'd be curious to 163 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: hear your predictions briefly on the last episode, I just have, 164 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: honestly one remark this writer's room trying to imagine the 165 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: hottest club in Brooklyn unquote unquote. First of all, Brooklyn 166 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: doesn't have clubs, Like, we don't really do clubs really, 167 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: Like that's not a thing. I mean, there are clubs, 168 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: it's just like we're not going to them. It is. 169 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: It was kind of hard to watch. And also sorry, 170 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: someone who is at this stage in her career like 171 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: Carrie would not be waiting in line at a club, 172 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: like if she went to the front, even if she 173 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: was like kind of can I really like kind of 174 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: choogy internet celebrity that no one likes the way you 175 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: would let a real housewife into a party, no matter 176 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: who she is, you'd be like, oh, but I don't 177 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: think Carrie has that kind of face recognition. You don't 178 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: think No, I think maybe I think she should have 179 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,599 Speaker 1: had her while I was going to say her publicists, 180 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: but she doesn't have on anymore because Samantha, she would 181 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: have had her publicists call ahead and get her on 182 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: the list. Maybe that's no Samantha. So there we go. 183 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: My big question watching the episode was at the end 184 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: of the last episode, Miranda was flying to Ohio to 185 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: see Chay and confess her love, and then in this episode, 186 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: like all they're just all a brunch and like there's 187 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: no mention of what happened, So, like, what what happened? 188 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: That was? So I understand that, like in the o G. 189 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: Sex in the City, like it is truly episodic, and 190 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: so there are huge time jumps between all these episodes, 191 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: and so I don't know why, but it's much more 192 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: jarring and and just like that, I think because they've 193 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: created these hour long stories that, um, in my opinion, 194 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: are pretty serialized, and so I just I don't really 195 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: it is a little jarring. And I think that even 196 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: if they do earn it most of the time, like 197 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: they're good enough writers to like earn it. That I 198 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: totally agree. Was like it was such an explosive moment 199 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: to like take a cab to an airport for it 200 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: to be completely disregarded. Yeah, but I did like that 201 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: Miranda like had that moment where she recognized she was 202 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: being insane and not acting like herself. But like it's 203 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: a little too little, too late, especially after the moment 204 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: between Steve and Carrie where he said he was never 205 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: taking his wedding ring off, but also like that was 206 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: so different than the tune he was singing last week 207 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: where he was saying he was done fighting for their marriage. 208 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: There's no consistency in the characterizations from episode to episode, 209 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: and that makes me wonder, like, Okay, next week is 210 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: like Miranda going to have a come to Jesus moment 211 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: where Chay like disappoints her in some way and she 212 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: goes back to Steve. You know, I agree that there's 213 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: there's an emotion an emotional incontinuity, but I do think 214 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: that there's consistency in saying I'm done fighting for you, 215 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: but also like You're going to break my heart forever. 216 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: Months have passed, I guess since we last saw them, 217 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: so it would make sense that he would come around 218 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: to kind of a new frame of mind. I think 219 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: I bought that. I guess what I'm kind of struggling 220 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: with is Naya's like I vf fully just don't care. 221 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: I think that I don't care. They need they to 222 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: get me to care. She needed to be more part 223 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: of everyone else's stories, Like yes, I can, I can 224 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: recognize that that's a compelling story, even though it's one 225 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: we've already seen before with Charlotte and Trey back in 226 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: the original series. But she's just not a part of 227 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: the rest of the story enough for me to care 228 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: about it. I totally agree, and like, I commend what's 229 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: kind of trying to be done incorporating new kind of 230 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: characters into this universe in in the name of inclusion, 231 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: which I think in a kind of tokenism is like 232 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: really annoying, but I I think they're genuinely trying. I 233 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: think what like I feel both of us are kind 234 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: of annoyed with, is that seeing scenes without any of 235 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: our girls is very jarring. It's a different show. It's 236 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: a show I would want to watch. It's a show 237 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: I would be engaged in, but it's not Sex in 238 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: the City. And so I appreciate the swing of trying 239 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: to incorporate new perspectives and narratives. I just wish it 240 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: was kind of more entwined, and to borrow a take 241 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: from the Every Outfit podcast, like, it's also it sucks 242 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: that like all the people of color in the show, 243 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: like that their plotlines are such bummers, Like Seema is 244 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: like I guess creating a fake marriage to please her 245 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: parents LTW is just kind of like bickering with her 246 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: husband and Naya, you know, and this I V F thing, 247 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: like Bear rely has a single moment of levity. And 248 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: again it's just I think it's a failure of the 249 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: imagination for like rich people of color in this show. 250 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: I think Seema is the best iteration of it, and 251 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: like she is like so faboo and like I'm I'm 252 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: invested in her as a character for season two of 253 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: the show, but it still doesn't They haven't quite smoothed 254 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: over all the layers of it um tonally, you know 255 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, I think also one of the 256 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: problems is that, like I get and just like that 257 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: is not Sex in the City. But the thing was 258 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: Sex in the City was that carries friends lives were 259 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: important because not just because we found them compelling as characters, 260 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: but because what they were going through in the episodes 261 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: was thematically linked to what Carrie was talking about in 262 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: her columns. So all the stories have these like larger 263 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: thematic connects exactly, And that's just not happening here. Everything 264 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: is just like here's a bunch of stuff that's happening 265 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: all these people's lives, so that just like feels weird 266 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: to me and just like bad writing. But I guess 267 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: that's my prediction for the finale is like there will 268 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: be more kind of like confusing bad writing stuff. Um, 269 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: we are getting a mitzvah, which is going to be 270 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: a lot. Har enf is playing the trans rabbi. You kidding? Um, yeah, 271 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: it was in the preview that Okay, that's sick. I'm 272 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: here for Harry as a as a rabbi. I think 273 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: all I'm hoping for is that these women get something 274 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: fun to do next week. I hope so. But we 275 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: will see you up the the mitzvah. Today we're talking 276 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: about Buffy the Vampire Slayer and there is literally no 277 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: one better to do that with them with our guest 278 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Evan ross Katz, thank you both. And I just gotta say, 279 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: I feel like years ago, when I would see you 280 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter, I'd be like, oh my god, she's someone 281 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: who also sees the show like I see the show, 282 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: and like really, I started to realize that there was 283 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: like a fandom that exists twenty plus years later, and 284 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: like we still are out there and it's like you 285 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: see someone that posted about Buffy and it like it 286 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: connects you to that person because you're like, oh, you 287 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: may maybe you see the world how I see the world. 288 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: It is this little insider club and a way to 289 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: just know someone's cool if they like Buffy. AG. So 290 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: you're declaratively saying that I'm not cool. That's not that's 291 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: not actually what I'm saying. If that's what you're inferring, 292 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: then that's up to you. I guess I should clarify 293 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,479 Speaker 1: that I like Buffy, but I personally have not consumed 294 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Buffy the way y'all have because y'all were from the 295 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: dark question mark from season two. From season two, that's 296 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: that's when I started as well and then went back. Yeah, okay, okay, 297 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: And I personally have only, you know, done a cursory 298 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: watch of the first season. I'm not in the weeds 299 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: of it. But again, like I said that, I'm a 300 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: student today and I'm here to learn what I mean. Yeah, 301 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: but I was gonna say, like I feel like with 302 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: season like when I first watched it, I look back 303 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: now and I don't know what I was taking away 304 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: from it because I literally was a preteen and so 305 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: so many and as you mentioned yeah, yeah, and like 306 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: I go back now and I'm like, I don't know 307 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: the show that I was watching or what I was 308 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: taking away from it. I'm glad I found it, but 309 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: like so many of the jokes and the references, like 310 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: I had no idea what was going on, and to 311 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: this day I get something new from every every time 312 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: I watched an appo completely there's so many layers of 313 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: references and like little like physical moments of humor that 314 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: I just didn't catch on first watching. There's a line 315 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: in season three I forgot the name of the episode, 316 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: but it's one sentence in Sarah Michelle Geller literally references 317 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: Willie Lohman from Death of a Salesman and then talks 318 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: about the real world. And it's just like the way 319 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: that she just sort of goes in and out of 320 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: something that's like an Arthur Miller play and then like 321 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: an MTV reality show. And I again and both of 322 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: those things over my head at the time, but now 323 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: I go back and watch him, like this show is 324 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: just so smart. Well, for all of our virgins out there, 325 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: which this week includes a friend, Um, Evan, do you 326 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: want to give us like a you know, a brief 327 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: little synopsis of what Buffy is. Yeah, so Buffy was 328 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: based off of a film that was written by Josh Sweden, 329 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: and when we say his name, we're using verbal asterixes 330 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: over the vowels um. But basically the premise of the film, 331 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: which sort of sort of more or less carries over 332 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: into the series, was that there he wanted to subvert 333 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: the idea of the blonde girl in the alley that 334 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: dies in a horror film, and he basically was like, 335 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: I want to have her take back the night. I 336 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: want her to not only survive, but thrive and be 337 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: powerful and actually be able to take out the bad guys. 338 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: And so the character of Buffy was born. In the film, 339 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: she's a little bit more flat, she's more of like 340 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: just sort of a dizzy valley girl who's given this 341 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: identity as the chosen one, the slayer. And then in 342 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: the television series she becomes a lot more nuanced thanks 343 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: to the writing, but mostly thanks to the performance of 344 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: Sarah Michelle Geller. And so the series just basically chronicles 345 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: her battling physical demons and then the demons that live 346 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: with so many of us, and so there's sort of 347 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: this metaphor. Yeah, it was the show that popularized the 348 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: idea of the monster of the Week episode UM, and 349 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 1: it also was the show that created the idea of 350 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: the big bad UM of having a season of serialized 351 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: television that was like all like thematically linked by one 352 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: story and leading towards one big confrontation. And in so 353 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: many ways, Buffy was the blueprint for like everything that 354 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: exists on TV no completely and also just like treating 355 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: young people. You know, there's this thing right now because 356 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: there's so many shows out there, from sex Education to 357 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: Euphoria that treat teens like teens really are, but that 358 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: wasn't so much. The trend at the time was very 359 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: actually after school special, like everything was like a lesson, 360 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: And I feel like Buffy was one of the first 361 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: shows to really treat teens as young adults, as people 362 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: who have maybe heightened emotions, but those emotions are very 363 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: real when you're living through them. At the time, it 364 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: sort of didn't um look down upon teen aks. It 365 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: actually celebrated teenang totally, and those emotions were so real 366 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: that they became literal monsters because those monsters were reflections 367 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: of what the characters were dealing with. And I think 368 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: in Buffy the slayer, you know, defeating them. They never 369 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: made that like a shorthand for having to deal with 370 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: the actual issues, Like Buffy always had to figure her 371 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: ship out. It wasn't like she just got to slay 372 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: a monster and everything went away. There was so much 373 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: like unpacking of trauma and you know, like dealing with 374 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, romantic relationships and platonic relationships and familial really 375 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: and chips and it's just like the best show ever. 376 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: I watched the first episode with like an O G. 377 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: Buffy stand like someone who watched the movie like when 378 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: it came out, and then we came obsessed with Buffy 379 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: from there, which I think, I don't know, do a 380 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: lot of Buffy stands, like even what like I actually 381 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: didn't even know that there was a movie. Do a 382 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: lot of Buffy stands start with the TV show and 383 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: then go back to the movie, or like, well, I 384 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: would say that the film is like not Cannon, but 385 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: it but it kind of is because they like I 386 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: like that they didn't totally throw it out, because they 387 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: make references to the villain in the movie. And in 388 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: season two, the flashbacks to Buffy at her old school, 389 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: like she does talk about how she burned down the 390 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: gym in her old school. You see like a version 391 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: of her that is closer to what we saw in 392 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: the movie. But you understand in the first season that 393 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: Buffy has gone through a major change after like the 394 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: events of the first movie, and that's what makes it 395 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: okay for her to be this new character played by 396 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: this new actress. And there's one moment in the film 397 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: that I actually think carries through in terms of the 398 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: character of Buffy that's actually like one of my favorite 399 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: moments in the film. Buffy is played by Christy Swanson, 400 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: another actor who are going to use asterixes around the 401 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: vowels in their name. You can google that if you want. 402 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: But so Christie plays Buffy, and then Luke Perry, the 403 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: Great Luke Perry is her love interest Pike, and there's 404 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: a scene in the very end of the film they're 405 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: dancing during the prom and he says to her, Buffy, 406 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: you're not like the other girls, and she says, yeah, 407 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: I am, and I kind of love that. Then you 408 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: get crystallized this idea that like Buffy, all Buffy wants 409 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: to be is like everybody else, and the struggle for 410 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: Buffy is actually like trying to subjugate her greatness, which 411 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: actually comes to a head in season seven of the series, 412 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 1: you know, which we won't get into deep dive, but 413 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: I think that one of the interesting things that the 414 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: show does that it carried over from the film was 415 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: this idea that like Buffy actually just wants to be 416 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: a normal girl. Um, she doesn't want to have these 417 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: superpowers or be perceived to be like better than others. 418 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: But circumstance does not allow for that, and so much 419 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: of the tension of the show is her trying to 420 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: reckon with that, and then, like you said, in the 421 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: later seasons, she really starts to accept that she's different. 422 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: I would say like season five is probably where that 423 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: happens the most, when she you know, like starting with 424 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: Buffy versus Dracula, that she is realizing that she is 425 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: like not she's not human, She's not a normal girl. Um, 426 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: she never will be. I want to talk a little 427 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: bit about like that whole normal girl thing, but I 428 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: want to start with like, um kind of Buffy's place 429 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: like in the cultural context of this kind of heroine, 430 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because like being like oh, yeah, 431 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, the bimbo that dies at the beginning of 432 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: the movie is now going to be the hero of 433 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: the story. Like I actually had no idea that that 434 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: was like Buffy's conceived, But when I watched the first episode, 435 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I mean, she's not like super like Jugsy, but she 436 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: has like you know, she's got like a mini skirt. 437 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: She has like a valley girl accent. And I think 438 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: that dichotomy of like shrewd smart, like a total killer 439 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: and also like I have a valley girl accent is 440 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: like the beginning of like a lot of things that 441 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: like we consume like right now, you know, um, because 442 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: like I don't know what was the TV like at 443 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: that time, it was probably like what um, like everybody 444 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: loves Raymond and like like this Dawson's Creek. Yeah, like 445 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: you think about what else was on the WB when 446 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: Buffy r Seventh Heaven Charms Dawson's Creek. But I do 447 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: feel like of the because you have to realize at 448 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: the time, the w B was very much like a 449 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: fledgling network. Dawson's Creek came in night so like Buffy 450 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 1: had just premiered. I would say their tenthole, their tent 451 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: pole series at the time, was Seventh Heaven. Which like 452 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 1: looking back on it, like was not exactly moving the need. 453 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: It did not age well. However, it was one of 454 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: the few things that my family I was allowed to 455 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: watch in my family because they were like loosely Christians 456 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: somehow or quite I don't even remember. But so it 457 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: was kind of the the one of the first shows 458 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 1: that was kind of being used to launch the network 459 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: in many senses, but like there wasn't a lot of 460 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: belief in the material. Buffy was passed over by the 461 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,239 Speaker 1: w B originally and actually resurrected, if you will, as 462 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: a midseason replacement. So that's why the first season is 463 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: only twelve episodes, was because they kind of weren't so 464 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: sold on it um, which makes sense. I mean, it's 465 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: you know, Buffy the film is not a failed movie, 466 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: but when it came out at the time, Death Becomes 467 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: Her came out the same weekend as Buffy the Movie, 468 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: and Death Becomes Her was like this huge hit. But 469 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: what's interesting is like the budget of Buffy the Movie 470 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: is quite small. So like Buffy did fine, it's not 471 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: like it did terribly at the box office, but it's 472 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: not the kind of property you would go to and 473 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: be like, yes, let's make this movie. Let's develop this 474 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: five years later into a television series. But Josh had 475 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: won an Oscar in the interim for writing the screenplay 476 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: for Toy Stories, So he was a hot commodity and 477 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: I think that helped kind of landed on the w 478 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: B and they were like, let's take you know, let's 479 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: roll the dice with this, and then it worked out. 480 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: And also he had the backing of Dolly Parton. He did, yes, 481 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: she was like an executive producer. Ye yes, yeah, her 482 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: company sand Dollar Entertainment. Um, yeah, they were backers of 483 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: the show, and they were I believe it was Sandy Gallen. 484 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: I could be wrong about the Sandy Gallen who was 485 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: her partner who actually went to Johnson was like we 486 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: we actually want to do something with this, and jos 487 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: said no way. And it was Josh's ex wife, Kay Cole, 488 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: who actually convinced Joss to be like, no, no, no, 489 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: there's something here. Let's let's take a leap. So a 490 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: lot of women behind the scenes in those early days 491 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: were actually the ones to sort of like spearhead this vision. 492 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: I think Joss gets a lot of credit for creating 493 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: Buffy and like he is the creator of course, but 494 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: I think there were a lot of other people, particularly 495 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: women behind the scenes that kind of helped usher it forward. 496 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: Well that's also so true in the writing because writers 497 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 1: like Marty Knoxon and um Jane Spenson, um, you know, 498 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: have have written what I think are some of the 499 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: best episodes of Buffy ever, um, the ones that really 500 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: like hit you in a in a like really deep way, 501 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: and they have since gone on to I think, make 502 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: works that like I think about something like Sharp Objects, 503 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: UM that Marty Knoxon was, um maybe executive producer creator, 504 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: um and like you know this through line of like 505 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: how women deal with trauma. Um, how like yeah, she 506 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: is kind of over credited with it. Well, I mean 507 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: not to discredit, but I mean I don't want to 508 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: get into the John Sueden of of it all yet, 509 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: but I do feel like the big part of like 510 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: his pr Ston and like what he was talking what 511 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: he talks about in a lot of his like films 512 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: in post is like about him being you know, the 513 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: inventor of the strong female lead and like this kind 514 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: of like this woman with autonomy, but like there was 515 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: I mean, Xena was on TV before that, and like 516 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 1: Sailor Moon, yes, yeah, like the kind of bimbo heroine 517 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: or like the I'm just a girl, but like I 518 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: also fight crow. Yeah. I think what Buffy subverted from 519 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: something like Zeno, which without a doubt as a precursor, 520 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: was that, like in the case of Zena or Wonder 521 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: Woman or Catwoman, they were all wearing costumes. So it 522 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: was this idea that, like, to be my strong self, 523 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: I somehow have to wear I have to put on 524 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: a different identity, has to become Sailor Moon, exactly right. 525 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: And so with Buffy, it was this idea that, like 526 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: I go to school and then I go out in 527 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: the graveyard at night and fight demons, and I'm still 528 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: wearing the same clothes that I wore from school, my 529 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: high socks, my my Kashmir turtleneck, skin tight. So I 530 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: think like the duality was in her existence but not 531 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: in her presentation. And I think that really was a 532 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: switch up from the female fighters or the female sort 533 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: of action stars that we were seeing at the time, 534 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: when it was not only did they have to change over, 535 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: but like in the case of Sailor Moon or with 536 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: Wonder Woman, it was like a big to do that 537 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: they were changing form like and with Buffy was just 538 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: she's this girl. She walks through high school as the 539 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: slayer and she slays demons as a high school girl. 540 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the you know, supporting cast, 541 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: because I think that that is what makes the show 542 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: is you know, the Scooby Gang, and I think everyone 543 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: is able to like find themselves in a different Buffy character, 544 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: and that is I think the main difference from the 545 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: in the movie translation to the TV show is like 546 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: in the film, all she has is her watcher and 547 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: a boyfriend, and she is this very lone figure um 548 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: And in the show, I think it was so important 549 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: to give her this cast of characters to work off of. 550 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: So you have Xander played by Nicholas Brendan Asterix is 551 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: again he canceled to oh man, he's just as canceled 552 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: as jobs. Yeah, we don't. You can google it. There's 553 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: a lot to google. We're not going to do that. 554 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: Then there's Willow played by Alison Hannigan, who is this 555 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: like nerdy computer girl when the show starts and eventually 556 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: matures into an extremely powerful witch and a lesbian. You 557 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: also have Charisma Carpenter as Cordelia speak her name. She 558 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: is she She is basically set up as who Buffy 559 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: used to be before she became the Slayer, and she 560 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: is this really interesting foil for her um and is 561 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: honestly I think one of the best characters in the 562 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: entire show, Like she gets the best lines, um. She 563 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: I think she's like one of the most iconic parts 564 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: of the show. And she is clearly it's clearly a 565 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: personality that they felt was necessary to have in the show, 566 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: because when she leaves, she's replaced by Anya, who provides 567 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: sort of the same like space in the show of 568 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: being like the sort of caustic, tactless person who's going 569 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: to just say everything they think with no filter. Um. 570 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: Then you of course have Buffies Watcher Giles played by 571 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: Anthony Stewart Head who's her mentor, and he starts the 572 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: show off as like a very stuffy like British man 573 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: and eventually becomes really a father figure to Buffy, who 574 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: does all these expository scenes in libraries that were really 575 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: helpful for me as a first time watcher. I was 576 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: just like, oh, if I need to know the summary, yeah, 577 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: he'll lay it all out, you know, Like there's that 578 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: sort of if you know, you know caption that we 579 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: put on lots of things on social media. I think 580 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: Buffy is filled with if you know, you know moments 581 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: throughout the show that are sometimes laid out as easter eggs, 582 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: but sometimes there's like a throwaway moment that, for instance, 583 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: I keep thinking about, are we allowed to spoil for you? 584 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: So like Buffy's sister arrives in season five, but in 585 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: seasons three and four, she there are little hints laid 586 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: out that again, if you know, you know, if if 587 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: if your ear is a tune to it, you will 588 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: hear it. And I think that the show is just 589 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: really really great at treating its viewers smart. And I 590 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: know another show I'm obsessed with, which I promise will 591 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: be the one time I mentioned, but Survive Eiver. Survivor 592 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: is not great at respecting the intelligence of its viewers, 593 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: and it's one thing that really frustrates me as a 594 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: view And it's not the only show, but I think 595 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: Buffy just like had a grasp of not only treating 596 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: the teens that it's writing as intelligent people, but also 597 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: treating the teams that are watching the show as intelligent. 598 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: And I really value that. When I was younger. That's 599 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: definitely something that a lot of cult classics have in common, 600 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,239 Speaker 1: is kind of like the world built inside of like 601 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: the inside jokes and the references that you will only 602 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: catch if you've like watched it all the way through. 603 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: Like these are totally separate. But like I'm thinking a 604 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: lot about Arrested Development, and when it first came out, 605 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: it had no commercial success and people didn't get it 606 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: because it like preceded streaming. But when people watched it 607 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: all in a row, they saw all of the Easter 608 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: eggs in like in a line, and we're like, oh 609 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: my god, this thing's happen. That's happening three seasons later, 610 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: as referential of like the funniest joke from season one, 611 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: And like, I think a lot of things that like 612 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: are determined niche or determined like on the margins of 613 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: like pop culture, are often just things that people didn't 614 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: have the stamina to like sit down and understand. But 615 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: but even not sitting down understanding, we still have a 616 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: cultural awareness of them because of what phenomenons they were. 617 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: Like you're only now watching the first season of Buffy, 618 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: but like you still have some kind of literacy and 619 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: what it is and like the impact of it. Yeah, 620 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: not a ton, but like, of course knowing that Buffy 621 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: is massive and this like cultural entity that has paved 622 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: the way for a lot of other things. And actually 623 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: this is like because my cultural my reference point is 624 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: like very boring. Like my only real knowledge of like 625 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: Buffy growing up was the fact that, like I did 626 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: watch a lot of like after school stuff on UPN, 627 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: and you could not watch a single thing on UPN 628 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: without watching a Buffy commercial. Noting the Buffy commercials were 629 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: um and I think that's what actually might have made 630 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: me watch the first episode of it, was seeing a 631 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: commercial while I was watching something else and it looked 632 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: really spooky and sexy, and I was like, even as 633 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: a little kid, I wanted to watch that. And I 634 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: started watching during season two and then went back and 635 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: there was a set of VHS tapes that had like 636 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: selected episodes from season one, So I bought those and 637 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: watched them because you know, there was no other way 638 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: at that point to go back and watch them. And 639 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: then also Buffy was such a cultural jug or not 640 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: that there were novelizations of the episodes, there were original 641 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: novels set in the universe that were like sanctioned fan fiction. 642 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: I guess um there were you know, action figures like 643 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 1: Ever's huge the franchise. And I think a huge, huge 644 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: part of the conversation is that is the fandom and 645 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: the world built outside of Buffy, because I think, again, 646 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: many things about the show are quite unprecedented, but like 647 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: that did not exist. This really is like the beginnings 648 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: of the Internet as we know it, and I think 649 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: Buffy fans very quickly discovered one another and the conversations 650 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: that were happening. Sure, they began a sort of being 651 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: like what did you think about this thing that happened, 652 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: but it also led to like connections happening and fan 653 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: meetups happening, and Josh and the writers and the cast 654 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: famously or infamously depending on how you look at it, 655 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: would go on the message boards. And they've even admitted 656 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: that storylines were affected by fan response to the show. 657 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: So it was just very much a fandom that was 658 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: in conversation. And and you know, we have convention culture 659 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: today and and that you can really fandom is so 660 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: ingrained in sort of pop culture, but that wasn't the 661 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: case at the time. And I remember, like it was 662 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: not cool to like Buffy you know, Um No, it 663 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: was something that I definitely did in secret, at least 664 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: for the first couple of years. And you're so right, 665 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: like Buffy was my entrance into fandom. Was the first 666 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: time I ever read and wrote fan fiction was because 667 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: of Buffy. Um. The first time I really found any 668 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: sort of like online community was reading message boards about 669 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: like theories and spoilers. I remember at one point there 670 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: was one website that day before new episodes came out, 671 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: they would have like a full description of what happened 672 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: in the episode because they had somehow gotten it early. 673 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: And I used to read them because I couldn't wait. Yeah, 674 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: and that's another part, and this is not just Buffy. 675 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: This is one thing that I think is lost on 676 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: a lot of young people today, the waiting process of television. Yeah. 677 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: And like you mentioned those sort of like next Time 678 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: on Buffy or or those commercials that would air on 679 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 1: U PAN and yes they were ubiquitous. Well upn didn't 680 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: have a lot to sort of um, but those commercials 681 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: having to wait for the next week to see how 682 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: these plots were unfold, And especially when you're talking about 683 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: like season two for instance, and you're getting into like 684 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: seasonal arcs in which you're like, oh my god, having 685 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: to wait seven days between episodes and build anticipation. What 686 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: are you gonna do? You're gonna turn to those online 687 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: forums and the other fans because you want to stay 688 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: engaging on the show and because there's not Twitter, or 689 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: there's not places to sort of, um go and just 690 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: see memes being made or people talking about our podcast 691 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: recap podcast, all of these sort of like ancillary things 692 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: that exist now with media. You go to those message boards, 693 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: or you're writing fan fiction, or you're getting the action figures, 694 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: or you're like me, and I'm like literally handwriting messages 695 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: to Sarah Michelle Geller and sending them in the mail, 696 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: lying to her and saying I had seen cruel intentions 697 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: even though I was gonna allow to. You're finding some 698 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: way to keep engaging with the show because it's it's 699 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: within you and you want to express that somehow. Okay, you, 700 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: you more than me, are Sarah Michelle Geller, Stan and 701 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: her historian. Um I'm I love her, but I think 702 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: your love for her is like so apparent in in 703 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: your it's in the social persona. Um so, like is 704 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: this where you fell in love? With her. No, I 705 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: actually fell in love with her on All my Children, Yeah, 706 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: because my best friend's mom was obsessed with All my children, 707 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: So when we would come home from school, she would 708 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: have them taped on her vhs UM and we would 709 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: watch My Children and Sarah Michelle Geller played Kindall Heart, 710 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: the daughter of Susan Lucci's character her she want an 711 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: Emmy Award. But that's when I first became intrigued by her. 712 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 1: And then I would be like at the grocery store 713 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: and see like Baby and Bop magazine, and she would 714 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: be featured in it quite a bit, and and I 715 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: just was like, who is this person? And so I 716 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: knew when Buffy happened, I knew who she was. I 717 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: wasn't yet like the super fan by that point, but 718 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: All My Children was really the entry point and to 719 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: be like, there's something about this person that I like 720 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: naturally feel compelled to follow and that has always stuck 721 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: with me. I feel very magnetized to her in a 722 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: very strange way that I knows people like you can 723 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: relate to, but like she's extremely compelling, and I think 724 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: a big part of why Buffy works is because of 725 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: her dent, Like who else. I mean someone else auditioned 726 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: for the role before her, who was Katie Holmes action 727 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: for the role, and several others, and so funny enough, 728 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: Sarah Michell Geller was originally cast as Cordelia on the show, 729 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,479 Speaker 1: and what she would have been so great. She would 730 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 1: have been great, And basically what happened was they weren't 731 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: to find a Buffy. They called her, and she was 732 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: worried about whether or not to go in for Buffy 733 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: because basically, and she says us in the book, She's like, 734 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,959 Speaker 1: there's a world in which they start to see you 735 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: so much as they're starting to see you as Buffy 736 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: that they no longer see you as Cordelia, And if 737 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: they go with somebody else for Buffy, then they're kind 738 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: of like, well, wait a minute, you're not right for 739 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: Cordelia anymore. And so she was worried. Um, but she 740 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: kept going in and kept going in, and then eventually 741 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: she was cast. But yeah, there's something about her performance. 742 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean I say this in all seriousness and people 743 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 1: often laugh at it, but I'm not joking. To me, 744 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: there's like Meryl Streep and there's Viola Davis, and they're 745 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: Sarah Michelle like she's in that same pantheon. She just 746 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: haven't hasn't been given the opportunities that those women have 747 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: by way of like role versatility. Well, she did everything 748 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: on Buffy and she she did you know, the like Spunky, 749 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: you know, Valley Girl, teenager, she did the heroine. She 750 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: did like really emotional work, like when you think about 751 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: everything that happened with Angel in season two, when you 752 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: think about the body. Um, she's also really amazing at comedy. 753 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: I think of some of the more like one off 754 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: episodes like things like him in season seven or be 755 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: which Bothered and Bewildered in season two. Um, she has 756 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: an amazed she has amazing comedic timing, and she's like 757 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: just very good at selling the joke. Agreed. And then 758 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: there's also like some other like random things about her 759 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 1: that are like not often talked about, but like, for instance, 760 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: she looks good kicking, but like there's so many things 761 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: that's like her, Like physical prowess in the role is 762 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: just incredible where it's like it's not funny, it doesn't 763 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: read weird to watch this five foot too blonde woman 764 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: kicking these huge mutants asses it it makes sense because 765 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: of the way she sells it. Yeah, she's so good. 766 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: It frustrates me that I don't care that she didn't 767 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: really get a lot of awards recognition, but it frustrates 768 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: me that she was not given the respect at the 769 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: time for her acting because I look at like someone 770 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: like Zendia winning an Emmy Award for Euphoria now and 771 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: as she completely deserved, and I'm like, I feel like 772 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: if Buffy were on now, we would be looking at 773 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: that performance with a lot more. We'd be celebrating it more. 774 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: Sci Fi fantasy, horror exists in a different cultural context 775 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: now than it did when Buffy was on, Like horror 776 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: is now so elevated. We are much more celebratory to 777 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: things that center teenagers, that center women, that center queer people. 778 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: And also Game of Thrones really changed the way we 779 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: talk about sci fi and fantasy and it being prestige. 780 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,240 Speaker 1: So I do think in a way, Buffy like set 781 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: the culture up to be able to do that. Buffy 782 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: was ahead of its time, for sure, But I think 783 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: that you're so right, Like a big part of like 784 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: kind of Sarah Michelle Geller not getting like her flowers 785 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: at least at that time, was in large part of 786 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: thing because the show was ahead of its time, but 787 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: also because like I would even argue, like even today, 788 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: like we don't respect like genre stuff they like even 789 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,839 Speaker 1: though we have you know, the Jordan's Peels and like 790 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: we have like correct like ariasters and we have that 791 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: kind of like, um, we have the prestige. So I 792 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: find the prestige horror, those things still aren't getting nominated 793 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: for awards like to should have an awesome That's a great, 794 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: great example, and it wasn't even contention because people don't 795 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: view it that way because the genre. I completely agree 796 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: Anya Taylor Joy should have been nominated for The Witch. 797 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: I would love to talk about this because I think 798 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: what happens like within sci find within horror is people 799 00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: can't see past sensationalist gore, or they can't see past 800 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: the camp that is intrinsically good, but they think it's 801 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: quote unquote bad or whatever. I think a lot of 802 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: people don't know how to don't understand how to consume camp, 803 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: or don't know how to understand how to consume like 804 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: something that is like so I don't know. Outside of 805 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: the world that we live in, I think we also 806 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: there's a big dissonance and disconnect. Like we celebrate film, 807 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,879 Speaker 1: we don't always celebrate movies. We don't always celebrate things 808 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: that are made for entertainment and cultural consumption. We more 809 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: celebrate things that are made as art, right, which is 810 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 1: why we're marketed as art. Yeah. And also misogyny is 811 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: a huge part of this conversation because so often, especially 812 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: at the time, when because Buffy was a critical darling 813 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: from the outside, I mean, Buffy, That's the one thing 814 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: Buffy always had going for it was the critics loved it, 815 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: and it always was praise about Joss. Literally, in my 816 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: research for this book, I was really I really wanted 817 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,919 Speaker 1: to go back and read how people were talking about 818 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: the show then versus now, because now I feel there's 819 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 1: a lot of rose colored spectacles in terms of like, 820 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: if you're talking about it, chances are you're talking about 821 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: it because you love it, right, Why would you be 822 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: talking about it twenty years later. At the time, though, 823 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: when people liked Buffy, it was the genius of Josh, 824 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: always through the frame of Jos, never through the frame 825 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: of Sarah. And I definitely think that is sort of 826 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: the patriarchy at play and its most obvious way. Um, 827 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: and that I think that is not just a Buffy thing. 828 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 1: I think that happens oftentimes with when powerful women step 829 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: up in these performances in genre. But there's a male director, 830 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: it's like he's the autour. He brought that out. I 831 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: want to I actually want to know a little more 832 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: about like little things that you discovered along your research 833 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: for the book. But before that, I kind of want 834 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: to know a little bit more about like your cultural 835 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,839 Speaker 1: like induction into like Buffy, and like where where you 836 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,919 Speaker 1: are placed in time when you started writing like Sarah 837 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: Michelle Geller fan letters, or like when you started consuming Buffy, 838 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: what was the thing that immediately enraptured you, what kept 839 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 1: you there? What were like the things that you did 840 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: as a fan? Oh my god, I mean it was 841 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: pretty gross. I mean like I was the dirtiest, nastiest, 842 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: and I think you and I are similar in this way. 843 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: But I think that Okay, obviously, I think as a 844 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: young person figuring out there themselves on a show like Buffy, 845 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: before you know, you get the introduction of Willow and 846 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: she becomes sort of like she is an out lesbian 847 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: by season four, um, but prior to that, the sort 848 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: of queerness of Buffy for me really began in season 849 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: two even before that, which is like, you have this 850 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: character where she has this secret right like she is 851 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: the Slayer, no one can know, she has to hide 852 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: it from her mother very Hannah Montana. Yes, and then 853 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: at the end, yes, very much so. And at the 854 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: end of season two she famously has this coming out 855 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: scene where her and her mom getting this huge fight 856 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 1: where she's like, you know, she's essentially saying, I am 857 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: the Slayer, but in my mind, I'm hearing I am gay. 858 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 1: And it's a direct correlation because Joyce even says, have 859 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: you tried not being the Slayer? Which hands up to 860 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: God for Joyce Summers Hello, Hello, But it was it's 861 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,760 Speaker 1: riffing off of queerness completely. And so I think that before, 862 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,239 Speaker 1: you know, I'm watching Buffy before I even knew I 863 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: was gay. But I think I'm sensing something not just 864 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: in this powerful woman who I who I wanted to be, 865 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,960 Speaker 1: but also sort of like in this idea that she's 866 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: walking through the world unable to fully express the wholeness 867 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 1: of herself. Yeah, And I think that it's funny because 868 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: it's like later on in the show, you know, and 869 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,280 Speaker 1: so much of the show is celebrated for its queerness 870 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: because of the character of Willow, as it should be. 871 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: But I think there's something both implicitly and explicitly queer 872 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: by Buffy, and the implicit parts of it were the 873 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,720 Speaker 1: ones that really resonated me when when I was younger, 874 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: but it became my personality. It Like I remember like 875 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,280 Speaker 1: my rabbi, that was his thing where he was always 876 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,439 Speaker 1: like talking to me about how much I love Buffy. Yeah, 877 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 1: I mean it was just my whole town. It's like 878 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: what define me. I used to be on the playground 879 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: and I would teach the young girls how to be slayer. 880 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: I mean like what did I know? Teach them like 881 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: how to whole old their steaks and like how did 882 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: you know how to get your leg up high? Yeah, 883 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: essentially right, And it's like you got to get the 884 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: demon at the heart or the next So I was like, 885 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: your kick has to go up past your hip because 886 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 1: it's like you're not You're not gonna go for their 887 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: crotch that they don't care, you know, you know, so 888 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: just you know, training. Um. Obviously writing her letters was 889 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,319 Speaker 1: a big part of it, but I think for how 890 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: many letters, not like a ridiculous amount but like not 891 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: an amount that I'm like proud to mention, but it 892 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: was just like I and I still feel this way 893 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: to this day, but like I loved to love it, 894 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: like the act of loving it felt safe for me, 895 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: and as someone who was like very relentlessly bullied in 896 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: my town. And I know so many people can relate 897 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: to this to have something that was that sacred to 898 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: me that gave me something to look forward to once 899 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 1: a week, but also to engage with other fans. And 900 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: we're not find people that were like minded, and I 901 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: think in Buffy fans, I then they weren't always lgbt 902 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: Q plus people, but they were people that I think 903 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: the rue line of a Buffy fan, often not always 904 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,480 Speaker 1: is a feeling of being mothered in some in some 905 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: way throughout their life, particularly particularly in their young life. 906 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: And I related to that so so much. And I 907 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: feel like I owe this show a debt in so 908 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 1: many ways because I don't know how it was a lifeline, 909 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: like in so many ways. You know, Rose and I 910 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,200 Speaker 1: have talked about this before when we talked about Harry Potter, 911 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,759 Speaker 1: But like the archetype of like the chosen one, which 912 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 1: is like Buffy, which is Harry Potter, which is like 913 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: I guess maybe Luke Skywalker, like these other kinds of 914 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: like you've been kind of almost divinely or mythologically chosen 915 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 1: to take on this thing. I think a lot about Hercules, 916 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: Like the Disney Hercules was a very formative thing for me. 917 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,800 Speaker 1: And that's also like a chosen one archetype, like I 918 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 1: am a part of something like divine and bigger than 919 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: me that like all of these normal people don't understand 920 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,799 Speaker 1: that there's something so queer within that that I think 921 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 1: sounds like what you're talking about, like the kind of 922 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: like cultural objects that like we would latch onto um 923 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: where with protagonists where, and they were like, you know, 924 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: no one really can understand what I'm going through because 925 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: like we're literally a completely different you know, we belong 926 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 1: to a different classic And the fact that Buffy's journey 927 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: was that early on she wanted to reject that otherness 928 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: and then by the end of the show embraced it 929 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,359 Speaker 1: and shared it. Yes, yes, I mean all of this. 930 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: So again, sometimes it's funny because when people don't watch 931 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: the show, they're like, oh, that's the show about the 932 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: girl like fighting vampires and demons and it's like, yeah, 933 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: and there's a lot more happening and a lot of that. 934 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: I don't even know if that was like Joss being 935 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: conscious of Like I don't think he was like writing 936 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: with I mean, I don't know. It's hard to say, right, 937 00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,400 Speaker 1: but it's like, I don't know if he realized the 938 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,239 Speaker 1: subtext that he was always putting on the paper. I 939 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,319 Speaker 1: think some of that was like stuff that we were 940 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: picking up on. But I just yeah, that for me 941 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 1: was like the hook and then that aspect of the 942 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 1: show and then something about being magnetized to her um, 943 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,759 Speaker 1: And I remember, like, so the first time was I 944 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 1: it was seasoned you episode six, the Halloween episode. Um, 945 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,200 Speaker 1: that was the first time I was hooked from the 946 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 1: outset and it was just all systems go from there 947 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: and I never turned it off. I don't love the 948 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 1: later parts of the show. Like, I'm not someone that's 949 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: like Buffy is a perfect show by any measure, but 950 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,480 Speaker 1: I've revisited it throughout so many periods of my life, 951 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: and I think that when Buffy is good, and it 952 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 1: is good often, it is the greatest. I think it 953 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 1: is the greatest. I mean, how do you feel about 954 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 1: the Supernatural elements because I feel like, from knowing you, 955 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily the kind of media that you gravitate towards. 956 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,600 Speaker 1: UM and Buffy obviously is a genre show of superpowers. 957 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:54,080 Speaker 1: I didn't completely so the so Slayers have supernatural strength, agility, reflexes, healing, UM, 958 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,919 Speaker 1: she has prophetic dreams. She has like a sense when 959 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,480 Speaker 1: monsters like watching it very stone, and I really could 960 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,160 Speaker 1: not grasp if she had powers or if she's kind 961 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,400 Speaker 1: of had like you know, intrinsic martial arts. They're a 962 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: little they're a little like loosely defined, like the yeah, 963 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: like she's like really really strong when need be, and 964 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: then she's kind of I have to say that is 965 00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:22,920 Speaker 1: one of my favorite and this goes this is bigger 966 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,279 Speaker 1: than Buffy, but one of my great loves in any 967 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,759 Speaker 1: kind of media is when it's like the willingness to 968 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: say fuck it to the rules and just be like 969 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: it is because it is. And I think Buffy was 970 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,080 Speaker 1: really great about being like why would they be doing 971 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,160 Speaker 1: X Y Z thing? It doesn't matter, Like if you're 972 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,160 Speaker 1: thinking that way, you're you're watching the show with the 973 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,439 Speaker 1: wrong lens. So Buffy was really great about like, yeah, 974 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,880 Speaker 1: there's totally moments in which it's like I think of 975 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: like season four, episode one, when she's facing off against Sunday, 976 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: which is she's just I love I love that episode. 977 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: It's a vampire and like, all of a sudden, Buffy 978 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: like cannot fight a vampire, and it's like she has 979 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,640 Speaker 1: been up because she's depressed. There are a lot of 980 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 1: things that there are a lot of things now that 981 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,279 Speaker 1: fall in the legacy of kind of like suck it 982 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,320 Speaker 1: and the linearity of the narratives that you were attached 983 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,360 Speaker 1: to and like thinking about even like something like Riverdale 984 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: that is like so off the rails, or like any 985 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,400 Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy project, or like things where it's just like, 986 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,759 Speaker 1: oh my god, like it's a big fuck you, but 987 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,839 Speaker 1: in order to enjoy the show, you have to buy 988 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,400 Speaker 1: into kind of like the bizarreness. And I prefer that 989 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: I would rather have, like I really like genre stuff, 990 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I like sci fi and fantasy, and 991 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:30,840 Speaker 1: I would rather have, um, you know, someone whose abilities 992 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 1: are like more undefined than like some Marvel hero where 993 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,799 Speaker 1: you're like, I know that they're this strong and they 994 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,600 Speaker 1: have these powers, and like I just think it like 995 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,560 Speaker 1: gives it gives like better opportunities for storytelling and to 996 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,800 Speaker 1: put the story first before the rules of the universe. 997 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,280 Speaker 1: You know this Macey think a lot too about carry 998 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,360 Speaker 1: on sex in the city and her outfits and you know, 999 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,120 Speaker 1: and everyone. I remember the big thing about the show 1000 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,279 Speaker 1: was like how could carry a four this apartment and 1001 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,200 Speaker 1: all of these outfits, And it's like, if you're thinking 1002 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: about that, then you're watching the wrong show. That's exactly 1003 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,319 Speaker 1: right to go to what you were saying. No, I'm 1004 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 1: not really like a genre person by nature. It's something 1005 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: that I think that through the show, I definitely like 1006 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,560 Speaker 1: got more into it, but it's not the natural genre 1007 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,680 Speaker 1: that I go towards. But I think if nothing else, 1008 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 1: I come came away from the show having a lot 1009 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: more respect for genre and the ways in which people 1010 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,920 Speaker 1: sort of like belittle the merit of of genre, and 1011 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, in the sense it's like sort of like 1012 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,799 Speaker 1: the supernatural and whatnot. And I mean, I definitely like 1013 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 1: there were shows after the fact, like The Vampire Diaries 1014 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,959 Speaker 1: that I watched, like it definitely brought me to other 1015 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 1: media that I wouldn't have come to you. But first 1016 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,680 Speaker 1: and foremost, like when it comes to Buffy, the Vampire Slayer. 1017 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,959 Speaker 1: I'm here for Sarah Michelle Geller first and foremost. Yeah, well, 1018 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,040 Speaker 1: I love that you watched The Vampire Diaries. I watched, 1019 00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,480 Speaker 1: I watched, I watched a little bit of it. And 1020 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: Buffy really was like a vampire cultural reset because I 1021 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 1: really look at like contemporary vampire media as pre and 1022 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: post Buffy, because you know, the context of when Buffy 1023 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,080 Speaker 1: came out was like we were riding off of like 1024 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 1: Ann Rice and the Vampire Diaries and this idea of 1025 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: the romantic vampire who was like a little like foppish 1026 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: and gay and and like this sort of romantic hero 1027 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:23,200 Speaker 1: and Robert Pattinson and um. And then Buffy came in 1028 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,720 Speaker 1: really reset that idea and made vampires into monsters again. 1029 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,680 Speaker 1: And it was like so important that they, you know, 1030 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 1: changed into like a demon face and that's why you 1031 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,600 Speaker 1: had the lore, that's why you had the lower um 1032 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,160 Speaker 1: on Buffy that vampires had no soul, and that's why 1033 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: it was so like important when Angel lost his soul 1034 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,320 Speaker 1: and then got it back and um. And then afterwards 1035 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 1: I think there was a return to the like brooding vampire. 1036 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,600 Speaker 1: Vampire Diaries kind of straddles it a little bit. Um 1037 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,880 Speaker 1: and I think one of the things that that Vampire 1038 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,440 Speaker 1: Diaries like fails that a little bit that Buffy didn't, 1039 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:07,240 Speaker 1: was that they're two into defining things. They really like rules, 1040 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,120 Speaker 1: but they will just keep making up new ones even 1041 00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,279 Speaker 1: though they contradict the previous ones. And that's the thing 1042 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,439 Speaker 1: with Buffy. It's like when you only give as much 1043 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: as you need, it just gives you so much more 1044 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: to play with. Yes, do you know from your research 1045 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,799 Speaker 1: did Sarah Michelle Gellar do a lot of her own stunts? Yes. 1046 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,799 Speaker 1: I think she did a lot of her sons that 1047 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,720 Speaker 1: she was allowed to do because I, um, last week, 1048 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,160 Speaker 1: I went to a screening of I Know What You 1049 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: Did Last Summer, which I hadn't seen since I was 1050 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean since maybe like around the time that Buffy 1051 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 1: was on the air, and I definitely remembered her as 1052 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 1: being more of just like a scream queen in it. 1053 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:58,040 Speaker 1: And I actually found like, it's surprising how how like 1054 00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: um fiery she is in the movie and how she 1055 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,439 Speaker 1: like really fights back against the killer. And I was wondering, like, 1056 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,000 Speaker 1: I feel like it came out probably like right around 1057 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 1: season two because she had the Bob kind of famously 1058 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,759 Speaker 1: like the Killer cuts off all her hair and she 1059 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,759 Speaker 1: has a bob, and I was wondering did the fact 1060 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:23,200 Speaker 1: that she was Buffy impact the way that she was 1061 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,640 Speaker 1: depicted in other films that she was in a the time, 1062 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,760 Speaker 1: even though she didn't do a lot outside of Buffy 1063 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,200 Speaker 1: um well famously, especially in that late nineties early era, 1064 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 1: like women's women actors and their haircuts were like a 1065 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,439 Speaker 1: big point of contention on like what roles they could book. 1066 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: I have to say that with I Know You Did 1067 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,040 Speaker 1: last Summer, they chose the in my opinion, they chose 1068 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,360 Speaker 1: the wrong final girl. I really do feel like Julie 1069 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,200 Speaker 1: was the mistake. It should have been Sarah Machialgeller and 1070 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:54,440 Speaker 1: Brandy and I still know. But that's uh, that's another conversation. 1071 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: But with so I Know You Did les Summer filmed 1072 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,320 Speaker 1: between Buffy seasons one and season two, so Buffy season 1073 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,839 Speaker 1: one had not heard yet. But I do think that 1074 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,279 Speaker 1: it's interesting and looking at I Know and Scream To, 1075 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,040 Speaker 1: both of which she filmed, both of which she kind 1076 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,680 Speaker 1: of played the blonde girl who gets who kind of 1077 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,960 Speaker 1: version well, also the antithesis of Buffy in so many ways, 1078 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 1: that's like kind of like it's kind of like the 1079 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:16,960 Speaker 1: world that would be without a Buffy and in so 1080 00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: many senses, so I'm curious, like as an actress, if 1081 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,400 Speaker 1: she was kind of like I want to like show 1082 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,600 Speaker 1: the range of like I can be the one fighting 1083 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: evil and I can be the one that's taken out 1084 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,400 Speaker 1: by evil Buffy without her powers, then well I guess 1085 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: it's yeah, but well there is an episode where Buffy 1086 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: has no power. Stay tuned. But it's interesting that you 1087 00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 1: mentioned I know, I Know what you did, And I 1088 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,920 Speaker 1: had a similar reaction when I rewatched it because I 1089 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,960 Speaker 1: remembered her being very damsel in distress in that movie. 1090 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 1: And it's a nine minute death scene. And there's a 1091 00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,600 Speaker 1: reason why it's nine minutes, because she keeps sort of 1092 00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 1: like evading this killer. And I love that deaf scene. 1093 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:51,880 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people do. But it's sort 1094 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,560 Speaker 1: of like fun because it's like she's not the sharpest 1095 00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,880 Speaker 1: and she's not the strongest, but she figures her weasels 1096 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: her way out of that car. She does she kicks 1097 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,560 Speaker 1: the window out, She like tries to tell the cop 1098 00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,760 Speaker 1: what's going on. He doesn't listen. A cab Also, I 1099 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,640 Speaker 1: Know What you did last summer is a movie about 1100 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:26,760 Speaker 1: restorative justice. Obviously we don't want to die. Even maybe 1101 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,280 Speaker 1: to like wrap out the conversation, either in the research 1102 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,520 Speaker 1: for this book or just like in how you've consumed 1103 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,400 Speaker 1: all things related to the creator of the show. Like 1104 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, Rose and I we had a conversation about 1105 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,400 Speaker 1: Harry Potter and like nuancing are so similar and stand 1106 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,000 Speaker 1: um within something that we grew up with that didn't 1107 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:50,000 Speaker 1: have this um like you know, decades later conversation related 1108 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,439 Speaker 1: to something that we now have to like reconcile with, 1109 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 1: Like what because for anyone who doesn't know, you know, 1110 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,919 Speaker 1: in in the past year or two, um, a lot 1111 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,680 Speaker 1: of the cast have of Buffy have come forward and 1112 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,800 Speaker 1: talked about what a toxic environment there was on set 1113 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: and how abusive Josh Sweden was. It's so interesting that 1114 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,600 Speaker 1: you draw the parallel to Harry Potter because I think 1115 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,080 Speaker 1: that is extremely apt and also just sort of like 1116 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,080 Speaker 1: how we divorce ourselves from a creator of an art 1117 00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,479 Speaker 1: piece that we really like. Well also acknowledging the fact, 1118 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,800 Speaker 1: both in the case of Harry Potter and Buffy, these 1119 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,840 Speaker 1: entities do not exist without the genius of these creators, right, 1120 00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,440 Speaker 1: So to deny that j K. Rowling and John Sweden 1121 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,720 Speaker 1: at one time created We're Geniuses, Our Geniuses. That part 1122 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: I can unpack, but I think that's really super difficult. 1123 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,240 Speaker 1: I think what I learned from this book that was 1124 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,000 Speaker 1: the most disheartening outside of the public allegations, and I 1125 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,400 Speaker 1: get into this quite a bit in the book, was 1126 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,280 Speaker 1: just the ways in which the women on this set 1127 00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,360 Speaker 1: were systematically pitted against one another. There's a really interesting 1128 00:59:55,400 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: anecdote in the book, UM where basically the as had 1129 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: been offered a cover of a magazine and all of 1130 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,800 Speaker 1: a sudden, the magazine was no longer happening, was just 1131 01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,000 Speaker 1: gonna be Sarah Michelle Geller on the cover, And basically 1132 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,240 Speaker 1: a rumor was going around on set that the reason 1133 01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,600 Speaker 1: why that was was because Sarah Michelle Geller refused to 1134 01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,880 Speaker 1: do the magazine if it wasn't just her solo. So 1135 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,280 Speaker 1: Emma Caulfield, who plays on You you you haven't met her 1136 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,120 Speaker 1: quite yet, but you will in season three. UM. But 1137 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Emma Caulfield went around the set and started just telling 1138 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,560 Speaker 1: everyone what a nightmare Sarah Michell Geller was, because it's 1139 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,280 Speaker 1: like she's literally preventing us the rest of the cast, 1140 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 1: from getting this huge opportunity to be on the cover. 1141 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,840 Speaker 1: And so finally Emma went to Sarah Scheller's trailer and 1142 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:36,520 Speaker 1: she knocked on the door and she was just like, 1143 01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,240 Speaker 1: what's going on here. Sarah explained the fact that that 1144 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,640 Speaker 1: was completely not true and told her what actually happened, 1145 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 1: and Emma apologized and she was like, hey, I got 1146 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,720 Speaker 1: this misinformation. I was told that you were like this 1147 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,400 Speaker 1: huge problem, when in fact it was a man and 1148 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,080 Speaker 1: you can guess which man that went and sort of 1149 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,880 Speaker 1: led her to believe these things and then in turn 1150 01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: go around and spread even more rumors. And so Emma 1151 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,680 Speaker 1: went to Sarah and like I said, I'm so sorry 1152 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:08,000 Speaker 1: I actively helped spread this rumor about you. Um So, 1153 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,640 Speaker 1: I think that level of toxicity is so disappointing, and 1154 01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,840 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of trauma beyond just the 1155 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,600 Speaker 1: women that have come forward and with the stories that 1156 01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,240 Speaker 1: they've told. I don't know how to do. I don't 1157 01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,280 Speaker 1: know what to think about it besides to meditate it 1158 01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,040 Speaker 1: on it quite a bit and think about it and 1159 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: how it re contextualizes the show. I think, if nothing else, 1160 01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:30,000 Speaker 1: it makes me respect and love these women more. And 1161 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, I dedicated the book to the women of Buffy, 1162 01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,400 Speaker 1: both on camera, behind the scenes, but also just like 1163 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:41,480 Speaker 1: in recognizing that there's a strength both in the characters themselves, 1164 01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: but in the actresses and and the stunt people, and 1165 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:49,320 Speaker 1: a lack of appreciation and it's disheartening for many reasons. 1166 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:53,000 Speaker 1: And um, I mean I say fun him like I really, 1167 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,520 Speaker 1: it's just it's a tough thing and it's tough to that. 1168 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,760 Speaker 1: I think these actresses suffer. And Chrisma has said this 1169 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,760 Speaker 1: on the record publicly, not outside of my book, you 1170 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,560 Speaker 1: know that she thinks her career has suffered as a result. 1171 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,560 Speaker 1: And so to think about and I would agree, it's 1172 01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,240 Speaker 1: like Christmas Carpet is meant to be a very very 1173 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:16,080 Speaker 1: famous person, and so thinking about just the insidious nature 1174 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,760 Speaker 1: of what he allegedly did all these many years ago, 1175 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,680 Speaker 1: but the impact that it has. Yeah, And I last thing, 1176 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,560 Speaker 1: I'll say, sorry real quick, but I just was talking 1177 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,480 Speaker 1: to Sarah. So, Sarah Scheller just finished reading the book 1178 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:34,840 Speaker 1: a couple of nights ago, and she sent me like 1179 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,440 Speaker 1: a long message about a lot of things, but the 1180 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,360 Speaker 1: one thing that she said that I took away from 1181 01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 1: it was like, it's really hard for me to read 1182 01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:47,200 Speaker 1: this and because I have to it's a very traumatic 1183 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:51,360 Speaker 1: experience as a whole things that I'm sure she witnessed, 1184 01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:55,960 Speaker 1: things I'm sure she experienced, and also being the first 1185 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,280 Speaker 1: person on the call sheet, you know, being the person 1186 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,840 Speaker 1: that they were all the I remember at nine, there 1187 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,120 Speaker 1: were all these rumors about how big of a bit 1188 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,200 Speaker 1: Sarah Michelle Geller was, how how she would make things 1189 01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,640 Speaker 1: hell for that this was I remember this so vividly, 1190 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,080 Speaker 1: and what I wanted to do with this book more 1191 01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:15,320 Speaker 1: than anything, and I hope what I hope I succeeded 1192 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,560 Speaker 1: with was like put some respect on the women of 1193 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,880 Speaker 1: Buffy and their names, and recognizing the ways in which that, 1194 01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,760 Speaker 1: like even one woman saying another woman was a bit, 1195 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,400 Speaker 1: was because there were other people at play, like telling 1196 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,760 Speaker 1: them orchestrating that puppeteering. It's so gross. I don't think 1197 01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,439 Speaker 1: it's unique to Buffy, but but it is. What I've 1198 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,320 Speaker 1: had to reckon with is like, it's so sad for 1199 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:43,080 Speaker 1: me to think about the pain that went into making 1200 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,080 Speaker 1: this thing that I love so much, and how I 1201 01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:51,600 Speaker 1: can watch it and still like I love it so 1202 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,480 Speaker 1: much and know that that was not the experience for 1203 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,000 Speaker 1: the people who made it what it is and that 1204 01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 1: is really hard to reckon with and there is no 1205 01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,560 Speaker 1: answer to that. And I think we just have to 1206 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,640 Speaker 1: stay critical of the things we love and support the 1207 01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 1: people who made them what they are. And that's why 1208 01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,920 Speaker 1: your book is so important, because we should be looking 1209 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,040 Speaker 1: at things like this with a critical lens and be 1210 01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,760 Speaker 1: talking about the ugly parts of them. And hearing that 1211 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,720 Speaker 1: you've dedicated it to the women of Buffy is just 1212 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,000 Speaker 1: so beautiful, and I think that kind of work is 1213 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,120 Speaker 1: so I think that just like thinking about things like 1214 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,160 Speaker 1: Buffy or things like it, is that like our role 1215 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,520 Speaker 1: in consuming these is not like, you know, cancel it. 1216 01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,040 Speaker 1: We're not gonna watch Buffy anymore. We're gonnad Harry Potter anymore. 1217 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,959 Speaker 1: It's about that when we consume it, just as you said, Rose, 1218 01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:43,120 Speaker 1: like we are making sure that history sticks to it. 1219 01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,560 Speaker 1: It never let the context disappear, because to erase it 1220 01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,600 Speaker 1: would be not just a disservice to a content, but 1221 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,600 Speaker 1: a disservice to the abuse that happen. Yes, And I 1222 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,960 Speaker 1: think like also one of the big things with writing 1223 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,760 Speaker 1: this book is like I'm obviously in this book because 1224 01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,680 Speaker 1: I love the show, but there are so many issues. 1225 01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's the way the show handles I don't 1226 01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,600 Speaker 1: even know if that's the right sexual assault. And then 1227 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,760 Speaker 1: also a huge part of this book is talking about 1228 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,320 Speaker 1: race and ethnicity, both on camera and behind the scenes 1229 01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: of Buffy, the fact that Buffy does not have a 1230 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,040 Speaker 1: single writer of color, And one of my pursuits, in 1231 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:14,960 Speaker 1: addition to speaking to all the women of Buffy, was 1232 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,920 Speaker 1: having conversations with as many of the POC casts of 1233 01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,400 Speaker 1: the show, and I'm so grateful. For instance, I was 1234 01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,480 Speaker 1: able to track down Bianca Lawson, the famous sister in 1235 01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,440 Speaker 1: law of excuse me this ye sister in law of 1236 01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,640 Speaker 1: Beyonce Um who plays Kendra, the vampire slayer on the show, 1237 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,440 Speaker 1: and kind of get into like, what's the deal with 1238 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,760 Speaker 1: the fact that you were only on two episodes but 1239 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,040 Speaker 1: you're so beloved? Why were you killed off? Like? Is 1240 01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,160 Speaker 1: there more to that story? And there is more to 1241 01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,760 Speaker 1: that story? And so I think one of the fun 1242 01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,400 Speaker 1: things about getting this opportunity was being able to talk 1243 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,000 Speaker 1: to the people who were ignored or sort of cast 1244 01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,320 Speaker 1: aside or killed off on the show and be like, 1245 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,960 Speaker 1: did you ever have thoughts on that at the time? 1246 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,960 Speaker 1: Like what you know? And and I keep you know 1247 01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,680 Speaker 1: in my research, it's like Kendrick is like one of 1248 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,560 Speaker 1: the most such a beloved character, and it's like barely 1249 01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,360 Speaker 1: on the show and it's iconic, and it's iconic and 1250 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,920 Speaker 1: there's a reason why a character like that stays burned 1251 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,000 Speaker 1: in your brain. And so and also just like I 1252 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,160 Speaker 1: spoke to Sharon Ferguson, she plays the first Slayer who 1253 01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,040 Speaker 1: only appears in three episodes, and she talked to me 1254 01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: about like the complexities of like not being given a 1255 01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,840 Speaker 1: voice on the show her her character is literally a 1256 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,160 Speaker 1: white actress. Tara, the character of Tara speaks for her. 1257 01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,640 Speaker 1: And I'm like, did you have a problem with that? 1258 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,240 Speaker 1: And she was like no, She's like, looking back on 1259 01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,880 Speaker 1: it now, I don't love that. But I also got 1260 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,040 Speaker 1: to be on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and that complexity 1261 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,800 Speaker 1: is like getting that is to me just as important 1262 01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,480 Speaker 1: as a conversation with Sarah Michelle Geller about the impact 1263 01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,880 Speaker 1: that she had on you know women, There's there's just 1264 01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:52,840 Speaker 1: so much to this show, the gender, sexuality, the race, ethnicity. 1265 01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:58,760 Speaker 1: You know. Well, I'm so excited to read your book. Um, 1266 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: we thought it might be fun before we let you 1267 01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:09,760 Speaker 1: go to imagine if we were casting Buffy in one 1268 01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,720 Speaker 1: who we would cast in it? Yeah, I feel like, 1269 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's a natural segue from the conversation of 1270 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,720 Speaker 1: an iconic cast and like what diversity looks like and 1271 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,320 Speaker 1: cast and all that's different, all the different stuff. Obviously 1272 01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,640 Speaker 1: it's almost a little sacrilege. You're like, how are you 1273 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,480 Speaker 1: going to read? Get it all? And I think also 1274 01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,760 Speaker 1: we can say, you know, the O G cast will 1275 01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,520 Speaker 1: like have candies. But we're doing this is we're doing 1276 01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,280 Speaker 1: this is a hard reboot, so it's not like our 1277 01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,880 Speaker 1: casting agents. Yes we are in this, Okay, this is 1278 01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:41,000 Speaker 1: our job. So do you have any first thoughts? I do. 1279 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,360 Speaker 1: And it's funny because so you guys told me this 1280 01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,840 Speaker 1: right before we started recording, and I was like trying 1281 01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,320 Speaker 1: to stay engage. Will also like make you sure that 1282 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:50,200 Speaker 1: I had an answered. Okay, So this is where I landed. 1283 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,960 Speaker 1: I'm landing for Buffy because I think who they are 1284 01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,600 Speaker 1: as like a pop culture persona is as important as 1285 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,040 Speaker 1: like their acting truth, and I feel like it needs 1286 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,800 Speaker 1: someone with like gravitas, who like the people are going 1287 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:06,800 Speaker 1: to come for and like want to see what they 1288 01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:11,760 Speaker 1: do with the role. So I'm putting Zendia as Buffy. Okay, 1289 01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,400 Speaker 1: I just feel like it has all the ingredients necessary. 1290 01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,400 Speaker 1: And I also like I'm imagining like Zendia kN has 1291 01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 1: the like the range you know you were talking earlier about, 1292 01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,559 Speaker 1: Like this role just requires like so much dexterity, and 1293 01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,080 Speaker 1: I feel like Zendia has that, and I feel like 1294 01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,599 Speaker 1: important to me, It's like she would serve the looks 1295 01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,479 Speaker 1: and you see the kind of pizzazzi commerciality of it 1296 01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,320 Speaker 1: in like her in Spider Man and like her as 1297 01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,040 Speaker 1: like almost like a I want I don't want to 1298 01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,080 Speaker 1: say a cartoon because she's acting so well, but like 1299 01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,639 Speaker 1: it's an archetype. She fits into an archetype as well 1300 01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,160 Speaker 1: as giving something with a lot of nuance. Totally okay, 1301 01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:51,200 Speaker 1: I love okay, So okay a Willow. Willow is so 1302 01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,240 Speaker 1: tough because I feel like that is as big of 1303 01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,840 Speaker 1: a role as Buffy and just as many acting chops, 1304 01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,559 Speaker 1: if not more. Willow more of a serious character or 1305 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,880 Speaker 1: she like comedic, She's both, everyone's both. So the thing 1306 01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:08,599 Speaker 1: about Buffy, like, is it like a Megan Fox time, 1307 01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,759 Speaker 1: is it like Aubrey Plaza? I do like an Aubrey Plaza. 1308 01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,920 Speaker 1: I would like an out actress to occupy the role. 1309 01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:19,479 Speaker 1: I thought they were both by Aubrey, and I'm saying, 1310 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,760 Speaker 1: so those are good selections. Yeah, um, I definitely it's 1311 01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,000 Speaker 1: maybe a little old. Yeah yeah, let's think of people's 1312 01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,439 Speaker 1: about people who could convincingly play teenagers. What about Beanie 1313 01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:36,519 Speaker 1: Feldstine as well? Yes, so period Xander. I think also 1314 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,799 Speaker 1: in this reboot, Xander needs to be gay. I completely 1315 01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,400 Speaker 1: hers a Xander for the real It's hard because it's 1316 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,920 Speaker 1: like I go to older all the time because what 1317 01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:50,000 Speaker 1: about shoot, oh I love, I love. I'm already like 1318 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,920 Speaker 1: sold on this reboot because like so anti reboot. But 1319 01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,439 Speaker 1: now I'm like, as we're casting and I'm like, okay, 1320 01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:00,160 Speaker 1: and then Giles Giles can be maybe like that's can 1321 01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,439 Speaker 1: have some fun like in terms of like we can 1322 01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,840 Speaker 1: recruit someone with a little I like to see. I 1323 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:07,640 Speaker 1: want to see someone who's like not like you know 1324 01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,240 Speaker 1: who's coming to mind for me in that weird way. 1325 01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,720 Speaker 1: He's a Marvel guy, the hawk Eye. He plays hawk Eye. Oh, 1326 01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:18,400 Speaker 1: Jeremy Renner, Jeremy, I don't know about that. I mean, okay, sure, yeah, 1327 01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,840 Speaker 1: what about like um, I would love to see like 1328 01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:28,200 Speaker 1: um like Alexandra Billings. Okay, I'm here for that. I 1329 01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,160 Speaker 1: love Okay, okay, and then who and then okay, let's 1330 01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:36,479 Speaker 1: figure out icon. It's so good, right and never have 1331 01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,840 Speaker 1: I ever so funny like she she she serves, And 1332 01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,519 Speaker 1: let's figure out a cameo role for someone from the 1333 01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,400 Speaker 1: original cast, Sarah Michelle Gellar is she's going to be 1334 01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,160 Speaker 1: the mom We're not We're not gonna We're not going 1335 01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,280 Speaker 1: to do her dirty. Maybe she should die first in 1336 01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:56,040 Speaker 1: the first episode. Oh if that would be fun. It's 1337 01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,639 Speaker 1: like she's playing a mom in an upcoming Amazon show 1338 01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,760 Speaker 1: and I'm just like hearing name mom. No, just just 1339 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:03,880 Speaker 1: it's like nothing wrong with playing a mom, notsoever. And 1340 01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:05,679 Speaker 1: it's like, not, I'm not trying to be Maybe she's 1341 01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:09,680 Speaker 1: like the school principle. Love that and she's evil and 1342 01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,400 Speaker 1: she dies in the first episode. Yes, I'm down. Okay, Okay, 1343 01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:15,160 Speaker 1: I'm down. Okay, So our Buffy rebook do we have 1344 01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:20,120 Speaker 1: a romantic interest? Oh? Angel? I think, um, who can 1345 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,320 Speaker 1: who's Angel? Who's Who's like the heart throb right now? 1346 01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,840 Speaker 1: Like it needs to be someone that's like funnier than 1347 01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,280 Speaker 1: like Timote or like, yeah, it's like and also I 1348 01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,000 Speaker 1: need someone with a little bit more It's like one 1349 01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:31,720 Speaker 1: of the things that appeals about Angel is sort of 1350 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,680 Speaker 1: like the brutishness of him, and it's like someone like 1351 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:39,200 Speaker 1: a tim He's too like life. Um, it's hard because 1352 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,320 Speaker 1: the person's coming to mind this is way too obvious, 1353 01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,360 Speaker 1: is like a Jacob Lordy type. But I don't I 1354 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:49,040 Speaker 1: don't really want I'm not here, but so I'm kind 1355 01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,760 Speaker 1: of Also, what if it was a woman mauff Is 1356 01:11:54,280 --> 01:12:00,200 Speaker 1: in the comic book? I love that, Okay, so let's 1357 01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:04,320 Speaker 1: have a like a brooding what about like Jamie Clayton, 1358 01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,160 Speaker 1: who's gonna Who's going to be the new hell Raiser? 1359 01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:10,800 Speaker 1: Oh I, oh yeah, I heard about that. I think 1360 01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,760 Speaker 1: she could do brooding. I'm very here for that. Sorry. 1361 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:19,680 Speaker 1: We going back though to Giles Lee Pace as Giles. 1362 01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,000 Speaker 1: I would like to see it. I could see that 1363 01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:26,120 Speaker 1: happening as well. But we also Cordelia. I'm thinking I 1364 01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,080 Speaker 1: really would like to see someone who I haven't seen, 1365 01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,679 Speaker 1: like play that type before that this is so important, Okay, 1366 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,280 Speaker 1: but yes, and but also I think the girl who 1367 01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,320 Speaker 1: plays the main girl on Gossip Girl would be a 1368 01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:40,639 Speaker 1: great Cordelia really yeah yeah, yeah, But also I feel 1369 01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:42,760 Speaker 1: like an M. J. Rodriguez as a Cordelia. I think 1370 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:44,400 Speaker 1: it would be really fun because we haven't seen her 1371 01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,479 Speaker 1: get to occupy like that, kind of like Harry Enough. 1372 01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,320 Speaker 1: Also the hard Enough as Buffy. Yeah, Harry's for Cordelia 1373 01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:55,840 Speaker 1: makes so much sense because Hart is really good at 1374 01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,800 Speaker 1: unhinged like absurdism, kind of like she loves that. But 1375 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,800 Speaker 1: so I would do like a table read where it's 1376 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:06,040 Speaker 1: just Hardy in every role, And I think we could 1377 01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:15,000 Speaker 1: make that happen. Thank you, Chosen Ones for coming along 1378 01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,479 Speaker 1: this vampiric journey with us. Next week we'll be back 1379 01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:22,600 Speaker 1: with an episode about Fifty Shades of Gray um, an 1380 01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,639 Speaker 1: intellectual property of stolen from another vampire franchise, Twilight. Love 1381 01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,760 Speaker 1: that um. So, if you've never seen any of the 1382 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,720 Speaker 1: Fifty Shades movies and you are curious, please check them 1383 01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,439 Speaker 1: out so you can watch along with us. Also, you know, 1384 01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,840 Speaker 1: tweet us her takes about this week's episode. Who's your 1385 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,840 Speaker 1: favorite Buffy character? Are you you know a slayer of 1386 01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,519 Speaker 1: vampire Werewolf? How do you identify? Do you think Sarah 1387 01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,680 Speaker 1: Michelle Geller should have an oscar? Please let us know. 1388 01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:52,400 Speaker 1: You can also call to confess and give us inspiration 1389 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,679 Speaker 1: for an upcoming episode. With that thing that you love 1390 01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,280 Speaker 1: so much on pop culture that you have to share 1391 01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,120 Speaker 1: it with everyone you love. Call to confess at three 1392 01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,439 Speaker 1: to three pennants. That's three to three seven three six 1393 01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,679 Speaker 1: two six two three. I'm your co host, Rose damn 1394 01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:13,200 Speaker 1: You. You You can find me on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok 1395 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,639 Speaker 1: at Rose damn You, and I'm Francrato. You can find 1396 01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,120 Speaker 1: me at friends, squich go anywhere you want subscribe to 1397 01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,719 Speaker 1: like a virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, and please 1398 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,280 Speaker 1: leave us a rating on Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. 1399 01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:26,960 Speaker 1: It really helps us out. Un lets us know that 1400 01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,720 Speaker 1: you love us, um and it tis the season to 1401 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,800 Speaker 1: show your love the damn season like a Virginism. I 1402 01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,920 Speaker 1: heart radio production. Our producer is phoebe Unter, with support 1403 01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,160 Speaker 1: from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch and Nikki 1404 01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:51,240 Speaker 1: Tour Until next week. See you later, Virgins. Hey, I 1405 01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,599 Speaker 1: just want to encourage anyone else there that hasn't seen 1406 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,920 Speaker 1: the Show's important that you're gonna get people telling you 1407 01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,639 Speaker 1: to start season two as like your starter season. I say, 1408 01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:00,920 Speaker 1: start from the outset. I think Buffy is good from 1409 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,479 Speaker 1: the jump. I think it gets better in season two, 1410 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:05,200 Speaker 1: but I think there's a lot to take away from 1411 01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,320 Speaker 1: season one. But I really encourage, Like, if you're through 1412 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,040 Speaker 1: season one and you're not quite vibing, I say, you've 1413 01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:13,120 Speaker 1: got to push into season two before you decide to 1414 01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,880 Speaker 1: call it quick. You have to give it the old 1415 01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,720 Speaker 1: Sunnydale hide try. It's a very good prescription doctor. Thank you, 1416 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,040 Speaker 1: thank you Evan, Oh my god, thank you both, Bi, 1417 01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:24,240 Speaker 1: everybody