WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 134 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.600 Also media, Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.639 to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.080 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.119 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.320 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:20.840 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.639 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.680 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.319 Welcome to ikodefen here a podcast being recorded something like 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.160 nineteen hours into bargaining with managements, thus at the peak 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.080 of maximal derangements, and also about an hour after former 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.600 President Donald John Trump was convicted of thirty four felony 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.120 accounts of falsifying business records for his election time payoff 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.160 of Stormy Daniels. We can only hope that this will 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.800 bring voting race to a long suffering felons of Florida. 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:51.760 And realizing that kind of sounds like a joke, it's 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.480 actually not. It is in fact, really messed up that 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.880 you can just disenfranchise an entire class of people and 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.240 maybe the law hurting someone famous will do something good. Now, 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.640 that's all the time we have to talk about Trump 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.280 right now. You know, if you want, if you want 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.039 to hear more about that, you can go to literally 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.720 everyone who's ever done any media related thing. Ever, however, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.280 we now have to talk about the other candidate in 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.520 the twenty twenty four election, Joe Biden, which means this 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.480 is all the fun you're getting for this episode. It 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.760 is now time for you to suffer and with me 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.920 to talk about suffering, and specifically the suffering of my Well, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:29.560 I was gonna say my people like like one of 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.800 my people's question work, I don't know, identities complicated. Sometimes 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.520 you're more than one thing at a time. Is Karin Green, 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.400 who's part of a Southern transfem collective launching a very 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:41.640 long list of projects that you will be hearing you 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.200 out very shortly. She also used to be a work 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.880 on policy for the Equality Federation and for the Transientered 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:48.920 Law Center. Yeah, Karin, welcome to the show. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.440 Thank you so much, happy to be here, and yeah, 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.560 I'm excited to get the opportunity to kind of talk 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.000 about maybe what is behind some of the press releases 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.760 and the HRC list of accomplishments that gets when I 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.760 complain about lack of action on transpolicy. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.760 You know, I really should have looked this up the forehead. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.880 But I once one of my friends dragged me in 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.040 college to a queer movie screening that I went to 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:15.840 because I hadn't eaten all day and they had food. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.920 It ended up being this this really great little kind 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.160 of I think it's like an indie movie thing that's 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.320 about this group of queers robbing stealing a blood diamond 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:29.040 from the from the HRC. Great movie, ten out of ten. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:30.280 I wish I remember what it was called. 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.520 In the movement at the time, we all joked that 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.959 HRC stood for peculiar Ron and Glinton rather than campaign 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:37.440 because of how in the tank they were. 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:44.040 So yeah, So, as as the listener may may have guests, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.799 we need to talk about Joe Biden's quite frankly, really 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:49.400 terrible record on trans writes. 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:50.359 And to do that, we. 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.239 Need to talk a little bit about where the power 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:57.200 of the president comes from, because, you know, the sort 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.440 of traditional liberal wonk theories of the president tend to 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.160 either focus on like the discursive effects of what the 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.240 president says, or like the president's ability to like negotiate 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.440 with Congress to get bills passed. But this largely is 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.880 not where the president's power comes from. The president's power 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.600 comes from. I guess three things, two of which are 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.040 very similar. One is, you know, I mean just literally 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.480 the command of the military. Right the president, since since 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.440 Barack Obama, although Bush was doing similar things, has claimed 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.560 the legal authority to kill any man, woman, or child 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.400 the moment they leave us or regardless of her citizenship status. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:30.840 This is this is the legal foundation of the drone 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.440 program and it is still in place to this day. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.520 You know, the second one, I'm talking a lot about 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.600 Obama here because Obama weirdly established a lot of these 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:41.560 kind of legal frameworks. But you know, the second one 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.640 has to do with their ability to control the nation's 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.720 intelligence services. You know, I mean one of the things 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:52.080 that Obama did was personally coordinate the mess like multi 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.640 agency crackdown on occupy. And then the third thing, and 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.040 this is where really most of the power is is 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:04.440 through the unbelievably massive federal bureaucracy. So like I do 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.040 kind of get an assessed of this, and anytime you 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.440 hear the words the Department of that is the thing 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.480 the president has the ability to do shit with that. 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.520 That that is that is a very simplified version of it. 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.560 But yeah, you know, when when when you're dealing with 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.919 an office's power is largely bureaucratic, it means that if 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.080 you want to figure out what they're actually doing, you 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.240 have to dig really deep into the depths of the 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:32.280 American bureaucracy. So okay, let's let's let's do that. And yeah, 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.960 first I want I want to ask you about p 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.640 p a c A one five five seven, which is 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.760 a part of the the Affordable Care Act. Otherwise, is 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.320 it still better known as Obamacare? Do the kids Obamacare? 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.560 Yeah, they reclaimed it. I think the lips took it back. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:51.600 I had. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.120 I've been having this realization that people don't remember Obama 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.640 era stuff. Is why I'm saying. Oh, like I said, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:58.680 I started saying Ferguson to people and they had no 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.359 idea what I was talking about. And I was like, 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.599 oh no, we ventured the k we ventured the disaster era. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.680 So yeah, you can you talk about what that is 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.320 and what what it sort of says about what the 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.360 Biden administration isn't isn't doing. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.360 Yeah, absolutely, So, as you mentioned, it's part of the 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.080 Affordable Care Act, and so section fifteen fifty seven is 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.680 the regulatory implementation of the non discrimination. 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:24.640 Parts of the Affordable Care Act. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.359 Back in the day when we were fighting to prevent 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.000 Trump from rolling back some fifteen fifty seven protections, we 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.960 actually are comf people came up with a much sexier 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.440 name than section fifteen fifty seven, but it never took 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.480 off with any of the policy people, and so I 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.719 don't even remember what I'm supposed to be calling it. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.320 So yeah, I never hear people say section fifteen fifty seven. 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.800 What they're referencing is the basically the non discrimination part 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.320 of the Affordable Care Act. And so the Affordable Care Act, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.320 as people have probably noticed by now, touches practically all 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.440 of the US healthcare system and has extended, especially through 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:07.440 Medicaid expansion, federal dollars into healthcare even more than they 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.640 had been previously with the supplants for insurance through Medicaid 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.280 expansion and those kinds of things, And so there's actually 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:19.800 a lot of control that the Department of Health or 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:25.000 Health and Human Services and associated other parts of bureaucracy 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.880 like Center for Medicaid, Medicare Services, those kinds of things 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.400 have over implementation. And so one of the ways that 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.680 this works. Is when legislators write a law, they don't 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.280 go into all the details. They just pass a law. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:38.480 Right. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.479 And so most times, especially at the federal level, after 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.240 a law has passed, the relevant agencies that are going 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.200 to be dealing with that part of the law work 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.360 on and issue rules or regulations. You might hear them 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.160 called either thing, but they mean the same thing, right. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.599 So it's basically the additional agency policies and procedures that 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.960 they issue through the formal process governed by the Adminied 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.159 Rate Procedures Act. Very exciting, I know this is going 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.120 to be like just bombshell episode. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.400 Terrible stuff is coming. Don't worry. Hold, oh you got 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.320 a hold on. It's going to get really bad. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:11.920 I'm giving you the foundation to make sure you can 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.080 get maximally angry along with me. And so they create 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:20.760 the rest of the implementation of the laws at that 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.080 Congress passes, right. And so in this particular case, for 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.200 section fifteen fifty seven, it deals specifically with non discrimination, 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.760 So it deals with race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, any 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.040 any equality you can you can you typically find in 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.240 federal non discrimination laws actually in the fifteen fifty seven 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:40.760 and so it's obviously been kind of going back and 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:45.040 forth as a political football between the Obama administration and 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.280 then the Trump administration, and then I don't even know 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.560 if I'm going to give Biden credit for treating it 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.240 as a football. And so there's this regulatory process that 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.560 has been going forward and been rolled back and going 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.360 forward and been rolled back, and then simultaneousley there are 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.920 several I don't know the current number, but several court 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.320 cases over fifteen to fifty seven from various eras, like 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.880 I think there's still at least one case ongoing from 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.440 the Obama era fifteen fifty seven, there's some ongoing from 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.720 the Trump rag and then obviously folks might have seen 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.400 in the news that states like mine louisianatt that have 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.920 a governor and attorney general super focused on raising their 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.240 own profile have already filed suit against the recently issued 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:35.080 Biden era Section fifteen fifty seven regulation. And so there 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.400 is a lot of fighting around trans people specifically. Go figure. 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.040 It has been We've been hot right now for the 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.439 last four years or so. It's not been a super 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.640 exciting time, and it is actually impacted if you know 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.040 how to read the policy TA leaves. It has actually 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.599 impacted what we have gotten out of the Biden administration 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.240 in terms of actual trans policy. And I've been doing 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.080 transpolicy for a very long time, start at the state 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.599 level in Louisiana. You can't get paid to do a 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.640 queer policy in Louisiana. So I moved out to Oakland 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.319 to work for Transit Or Law Center for a while, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.200 and that was actually where I created the joint Protect 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.360 trans Health campaign. It was actually the first ever coordinated 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.599 collaboration between the National Center for Changuer Quality and Transgeneral 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.120 Law Center. They had never formerly worked together on something before, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.880 but for trans policy folks, Section fifty and most of 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:35.120 the country. Frankly, obviously, healthcare is like the thing right. 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:40.240 It's always been really terrible in this country, no matter what, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:45.400 and so taking care of people's which should be a 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:50.960 right to access healthcare, has been really really important. I 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.720 kind of considered it since twenty seventeen the most important 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.400 trans policy issue to work on. And so this is 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.480 definitely kind of to the sense that you are a 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.960 nerd like me, and you have, you know, headline regulatory 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.120 actions that you're looking out for and hoping to influence 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.400 and doing things around this is kind of the premiere 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.360 regulatory action. In my opinion, in the trans polacy space, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.720 I'm trying to what it should ideally do is safeguard 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.480 and guarantee trans people's access to healthcare, including gender affirming care. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.480 It does not if you actually read the five hundred 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.120 and fifty eight page final rule, But if you just 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.240 read like the press releases and the quotes that the 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.280 head of Human Rights Campaign give, you might have a 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.480 different understanding currently, And that's what I'm hoping we can 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:40.360 kind of get into today. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.720 Yeah, and unfortunately before we get into that, we have 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.640 to do one of the other things that is required 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.640 of trans people, which is promoting capitalism if you want 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:52.320 to have a job. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.680 So here are some ads. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.199 God, we're going to end up with like some kept 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.280 paid ad from Aluisi at our rep or something. 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.439 Oh, they don't even need they have a superjority that 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:06.480 they've been flexing muscle on. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:07.120 They don't need to. 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:21.120 They're fine, and we are back with some chili. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.240 So, yeah, let's talk about what has. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.040 Been happening and what was actually in the rules that 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.520 no one who's not a bureaucrat or a policy activist 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:32.280 has actually read. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.679 Yeah, so I think a little more backgrounds will will 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.280 help you get just as angry as I need you 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.920 to be, which is you know, So the administration is large. 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:43.880 There are a lot of people that work in the 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.680 executive branch, and a lot of them have, especially with 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.040 this administration, where a lot of folks actually did come 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.800 kind of directly from the Obama administration. They have relationships 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.000 with issue advocacy organizations. So most of the nationals, the 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:05.160 queer national organizations, avaccine nonprofits have relationships with executive branch folks. 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:10.280 And so when an executive branch agency like HHS is 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.960 working on a regulation that involves queer trans people, the 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.280 way it worked in the Obama administration, there was actually 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.080 very close collaboration between for example, the National Center for 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.079 Changing or Quality and the administration in the writing and 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.520 issuance of the first Obama era fifteen to fifty seven 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:34.679 productive regulation. And so before the election and then during transition, 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:39.000 the bid administration was obviously in contact back and forth 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.840 with all kinds of issue of secreups, not just the 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:46.880 queer movement but everybody, and they made commitments to the 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.640 queer movement that you know, it would be a fairly 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.720 smooth transition to working with them like we had worked 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.680 with the Obama administration. If you think back a little while, 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.680 that was before the kind of current fascist humanization campaign 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.120 had really kicked off, and so these commitments were made 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.720 kind of in the overturn window from before the last 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.920 four years of hell or three years of how however 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.679 you want a time it when they decided to come 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.320 after trans people so hard. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.680 This was back in the kind of housey in days. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.319 I don't even know if people remember this right now, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.000 but like it used to be a thing where democratic 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.839 like presidential candidates would attack each other for not being 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.840 radical enough on trans healthcare. That was the thing that 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.280 happened on the debate stage in like twenty nineteen. It 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.720 feels like seven lifetimes ago now. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.960 Yeah, And keep in mind that Biden. You know, every 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.280 six months he tweets that he has our back or whatever, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.480 and then he's also called us the civil rights issue 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.920 of our time. So you know, there there are some 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.240 opportunities to question that and see if he stacks up. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.200 And my personal and professional opinion, this is what I do, 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.520 is that he absolutely doesn't right. And so one of 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.280 the things that you would really really want out of 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.600 a section fifteen to fifty seven regulation in a context 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:15.559 where states have been passing trans healthcare bands, is that 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.640 you would want a section fifteen fifty seve regulation that 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.480 deals with preventing transcrimination and healthcare. You would want that 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:29.720 to strongly and efficiently preempt state bans against trans care 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.680 as violating a federal rule against non discrimination. And because 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.520 these things are you have to follow the Administrative Procedures 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.920 Act when you're issuing regulations as a federal agency, and 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.560 most states actually are the same a similar kind of process, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.320 and so you kind of have to The agencies have 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.400 to show how they got to the final rule. So 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.960 they issue a draft rule, invite comment. There's a comment 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.920 period that you might have seen organizations asking you to 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.000 submit comments for before, and then they're actually required to 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.400 read and respond to all those comments. And so if 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.200 you actually pull up the fifteen fifty seven final rule, 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.800 it's actually one of it sounds like even wonkier than 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:14.640 for example, looking at a bill, But because of the 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.720 Administrative Procedures Act and the way they have to respond 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.800 to comments, there's actually a lot more kind of conversational 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.640 prose or not conversational, but you know, regular ask pros 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.840 and not terrifying legal language in this stuff. That is 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:32.400 them directly addressing comments people organizations have made and explaining 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.960 their reason. And so one of the things that I 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.120 think is most kind of emblematic of how we've been 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.280 failed and thrown under the bus is because of this 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:44.880 process where they have to kind of show you how 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.960 the sausage is made. You can look up in this 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:53.040 regulation and see that for some initial contacts, we were 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.080 promised this would come out year one, and then we 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.760 were promised it would come out year two, and then 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.960 year three, and then I have actually heard that they 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.600 were trying to push it, asked the election, and we 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.200 kind of forced their hand on it. So you can 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.720 tell that they initially wrote the first draft in this 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:14.960 regulation to kill healthcare bans, to federally preempt healthcare bands. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.960 There's actually I did a Twitter thread on this about 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.280 how one sentence that existed in the draft version of 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.480 the fifteen to fifty seven role that one sentence alone 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.200 could take down. I think the one I used for 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:34.360 an example was Arkansas's trans healthcare ban or Missouri's actually 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.880 potentially because that what that sentence did is it laid 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:43.080 out very very clearly that a determination that trans healthcare 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.680 is never helpful or useful and can never be provided 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:54.400 does not meet the bar for considered medical reasoning, right, 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.280 and so states just can't do it. And that's fantastic, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.240 because that is only what these healthcare bands do, right. 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.600 And many of them, I think the one I used 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.160 as an example even actually have include in the non 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.320 effective text kind of the whereas preamble section of their bands. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.160 They can't help themselves. They go into all this flowery 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.080 language about how trans care is never good and it's 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.240 always harmful, in all this stuff right in garbage. And 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.760 this sentence spoke directly to those trans healthcare bands, and 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.719 it made a firm commitment to address them as a 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.760 whole as they were happening right at the federal government 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:37.520 to state level. And if you read the final rule, 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.680 you will get to see them strike that sentence out 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.960 and read their reasoning for striking that out. And so 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.479 you actually had this language that was very clear and 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.760 very strong, written very relatively early on in his term, 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.479 when at the time there were only a handful of 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.440 trans healthcare bands that had passed, right, And so it 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.240 didn't And so now I'm just offering conjectures and form conjecture, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.120 conjecture informed by reading. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:08.840 Policy tea leaves. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:13.120 But it is my suspicion that at that time, because 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.360 there weren't that many trans healthcare bands to preempt, they 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.800 were more than willing to maintain, you know, to fulfill 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:23.480 their commitment to us and to issue the kind of 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.320 regulation that we had talked about. But as time went 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.800 on and the fascist humanization campaign started and ramped up, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:36.320 and healthcare bands rapidly spread throughout the country. I've been 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.879 doing this for a decade and I've never seen anything 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.720 like this in any area of policy before. All of 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.440 a sudden, if you're holding a card that nuke's health 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.960 state healthcare bands, when you wrote it, that card was 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.359 only going to nuke a few two or three trans 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.359 healthcare bands, right, And if you're the federal government, you 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.560 know you can expect to steam rolls and just a 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:04.000 handful of states like that. But then later on, at 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.000 this point I forget the exact number, but it's something 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.840 like twenty twenty to twenty three states have healthcare bands implemented. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:15.600 And now if you're holding a card that nuke's healthcare bands, 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.280 you don't really get to pick and choose which healthcare 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.840 bands you're going to. Now you're going to you have 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.320 to commit to new call of them if you play 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.880 that card, and that just was not something that they 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.400 seemed willing to do when it was going to make 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.640 the waves that it would make with you know, twenty 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.600 to twenty three or whatever, states being prete empted and 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.560 required to make sure that trans people have healthcare access. 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.159 And keep in mind that during this period, not just 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.720 did more states past these healthcare bands, but the kind 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:49.480 of national discussion and focus on trends people deteriorated horrifically, right, 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.040 And so not only were the stakes higher in terms 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:58.159 of the kind of policy confidence in projecting your politics, 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:04.720 but also there was just I assume those lanyards run 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.800 horrible polls all the time, right, and saw that we 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.680 were losing points in terms of how the public views 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:13.600 transpeople because there's a lot of money being poured into this, 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:20.199 and just made the horrible unethical and moral calculations that 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.639 democrats make decided that trans people weren't worth it. And 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.400 so you can see them across that strike that part 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.080 out of the final fifteen to fifty seven room, and 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.440 it no longer contains any language even approaching that that 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.200 is written to address states as a whole, and it 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.840 is mostly what is in there at this point is 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:43.479 the same thing that they've been telling us to do 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.320 for the last over a decade, which is, individual trans 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.360 people who just happened to encounter discrimination and health care, 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:55.520 you just submit an OCR complaint, an HHSOCR complaint. OCR 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.840 I stands for Office Civil Rights. So you would think 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.159 an Office of Civil Rights maybe be proactive and notice 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.959 that a state that has banned trans healthcare and some 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.840 places even criminalized it might be ready for some enforcement, 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.119 some broad enforcement. And yet they have they have maintained 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.119 in this final rule that they expect individual trans people 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.080 to file individual OCR complaints every time and that they 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.160 will address each one on a case by case basis. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.199 They reiterate this at least a dozen times. It is 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.639 one of the most offensive parts of all this, right 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.120 because that's the only thing that AJS has ever told 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:33.280 us about this. 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.760 Yeah, which is just nuts, Like that's not an actual 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:42.040 systemic way of addressing Can you imagine if they had 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.600 done this with like literally any other kind of civil 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.480 rights issue, Like you know, okay, we get we get, 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:50.439 we get a state banned on gay marriage, and the 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.560 Department is like, yeah, you have to submit a complaint 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:57.399 to us individually, Like that's absolutely nuts. 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.399 Or are oriented like states were band insulin or something, 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.080 you know, right, like any other any other facet of healthcare. 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.960 Just nobody would take that. Yeah, everyone to expect, Yes, 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:09.920 the federal government will come in to make sure that 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:11.920 people in Louisiana can still access insulin. 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:15.919 Yeah, And instead you have this just you know, I 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:21.280 mean a complete abrogation of any like, not just any responsibility, 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.840 but I mean any attempt to actually, like not even 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.520 like any attempt to do anything to stop any of 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.520 these bands that are you going to kill a like 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:32.960 not in significant number of people like me? 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:35.200 Yeah. 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:37.399 And one of the things I'd like to win is 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.920 one of the benefits of of you know, the photogram 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.040 having to follow the Administrative Procedures Act is they have 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.239 to talk about the previous rules in this space, and 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.520 so you also get really, I was gonna say funny, 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:53.240 but they're not funny. They're they're deeply depressing paragraphs about 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:58.400 how their final rule is worse than Obama's final rule. Right, 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.400 they have and they have to explain it and open 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.080 One of the things that I'll reference here is that 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.080 Obama's final rule I believe, involved directing the Office of 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.959 Al Rights to conduct a disparate impact analysis on you know, 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:15.439 marginalized populations to determine if there were discriminatory outcomes in 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:19.159 healthcare access, kind of even as a closed system, so 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.240 they can look in from the outside and be like, oh, okay, 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.679 all the transmuble in the state can't access. 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:26.080 X, Y and z. 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.679 So whether that whether there is a discriminatory you know 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.760 law or not, there is a disparate impact on this population, 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:34.919 and that means we need to take enforcement action. And 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.400 you get to read the Biden HHS right about how 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:40.879 they're not going to do that. 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.879 Actually, no, no, don't, please, please do please do not 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.560 do any analysis to see your trans people are being oppressed. 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:53.800 This would look really bad for us. Yeah, speaking speaking 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:55.760 of looking bad for us, you know, you know what 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.359 won't look bad. It's if you buy these products and 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:03.359 services from this ad that hopefully isn't I don't know. 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:04.960 I feel I feel like we're kind of running We've 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.680 run through the cycle of the terrible ads, so I 0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:10.800 feel like we're about we're on the precipice of there 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:12.840 being another bunch of ads they put on the show 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:13.679 without telling. 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:17.040 Us that we can complain about. But for now these 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:30.160 ones and we are back. 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:35.280 Yeah. And I think this is something that I don't know. 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:37.400 I think most people do not know this. I don't 0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:39.840 I think most people do not understand that not only 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:42.920 is the Biden administration not being proactive, it's like they're 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.440 actively rolling back protections, and they're actively rolling back things 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.919 that the agency used to do under Obama, which was 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:51.479 you know, in most other respects. 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:52.080 I don't know. 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:53.240 Again, I don't. 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:55.600 Really like, can I expect the people who listened to 0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:57.600 the show to remember the Obama administration? 0:24:57.680 --> 0:24:57.840 Now? 0:24:57.880 --> 0:24:58.440 I don't know. 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.760 I mean, I was one of the people who came 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:07.480 of aged off my parents' healthcare plan kind of exactly 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:12.680 right before kind of primary PPACA productions kicked in, right 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.760 and so I had a several month period where they 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:21.359 could still deny you health insurance using or being trands 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:24.240 as a pre existing condition, as they don't god and 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:27.560 so that that that actually did happen to me. I 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:29.960 applied for health insurance and they sent me a letter 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.800 that said, you have your trends. That's a pre existing condition. 0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:35.359 We're not going to sell your health and so I 0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:37.840 so I actually did several months later, you know, those 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.359 protections kicked in, and the Obama administration actually did do 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:43.360 some kind of proactive work to make sure that those 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.480 were spread around the country. Like it's not nowhere never 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:48.760 has been as guys, good and throw. 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:49.119 As it should be. 0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:51.520 But it worked for me here because then when I 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:53.879 implied again, I was not denied for being trance. 0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:56.639 So yeah, I mean, I think that's the kind of 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:58.080 general thing I want to say about that too, is like, 0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:02.880 you know, there were things where, like on these kind 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:05.760 of issues where the obomaministration was a lot better broadly 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:07.600 if you look at the rest of their policy, it 0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:10.679 was like significantly further right in the Biden administration. 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:10.760 Like Obama. 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:15.719 Obama tried to tried to like put up grand bargain 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:20.320 together to destroy Medicaid, Medicare, social Security, Like he tried 0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:23.920 to do that and he was stopped by the Republicans. Right, 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:26.600 it was like, I need to give people a sense 0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:30.280 of like how far right Obama was even compared to Biden, 0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:33.160 and yet the REGs are getting worse. 0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:37.880 Which is on our issues. He was fairly fairly good, right, Yeah, 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:42.240 and one thing that I think contributes to people not 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:45.240 you know, I can't blame folks for not understanding this 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:48.320 is happening because the queer advocacy orgs are not talking 0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:51.960 about things this way, right, and I think possibly one 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:54.840 of them. The most illustrative things I can point out 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:58.399 is when the first title nine n pr M drops. 0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:01.000 So NPRM stands for Notice of prop was rulemaking. So 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:03.320 if I drop that again, it's a screw up on 0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:05.359 my part. I don't mean to use the dragon, but 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:08.439 so that when they issue their first draft of a 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:11.479 regulation and invite comment in a comment period follows. 0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:11.760 Right. 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:17.720 So the title nine inn PRM that they release around 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:23.240 trans students' access to sports programs and education. If you 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:27.399 read it the language of the actual draft policy, not 0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:29.960 the press releases people put out about it, it is 0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:32.639 functionally States rights for athlete bands. 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:33.080 Right. 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:36.560 It gives the States rights to come up with a 0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:41.240 justification that involves fairness and safety, and then they will 0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:45.720 have deference to pursue or whatever, which is not just 0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:49.159 some of the ways they've done fifty fifty seven as well. 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:53.280 Yeah, well, and like to make it explicitly clear. What 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:54.679 they're saying is that if you, as a stake can 0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:56.160 come up with a good enough reason, you were allowed 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:58.600 to discriminate against trans people and prevent them. Yeah, exactly 0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:04.360 doing sports, which she's like, again, it is a vert 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:07.760 discrimination based on gender, which you should not be able 0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:12.639 to do legally. However, come the absolute cowardly shits at 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:16.560 the Biden administration. We're like, no, you could actually do this, 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:18.160 go ahead to have fun. 0:28:18.680 --> 0:28:22.600 Fascist humanization marks. And so, if you remember back to 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:26.480 that time, all of the national queer organizations put out 0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:29.280 these glowing press release. So I'm on the policy side, right, 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:31.560 I'm not on the comp side. I reanalyzed the policy, 0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:34.920 I tell them what it means, and then it's unfortunately 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:38.160 out of my hands at that point, right, and the 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.840 national queer organizations have been messaging basically all of these 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:46.160 things as great wins moving things forward. Biden truly the 0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:48.800 first trans president. We love them, stuff like that, right, 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:51.600 And so they did not for that title nine in BRM. 0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:59.479 And then several days later, the Representative Zoe Zephyr, a 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:06.360 Translin represent state representative from Montana, organized the out trans state, 0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:09.040 trans and non binary state legislators from around the country 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:13.960 to release an open letter which you know, condemned the 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:15.720 title nine NPRM for. 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.960 Being dog shit. Yeah, and so that's that's. 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.160 I think maybe the one and only kind of a 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:24.480 crack in the in the facade that has gotten through 0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:26.960 over the past couple of years is when you know, 0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:29.040 this thing came out after the police people said this 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:30.760 is how did this happen? 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:31.320 What the hell? 0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:33.640 And then the comms came out and they were great, 0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:38.440 glowing you know, he love trans people. And then you know, 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.280 the state trans elected is actually said no, this this 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.320 fucking socks actually right, But that has not really happened 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:48.480 for anything else because they're you know, most of the 0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:51.720 people who do what I do, they're you know, specialized 0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:53.680 in each and there are many jobs for it, and 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:57.600 you could could I could speak at length about how 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.200 you don't get to speak your mind if you want 0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:04.560 to continue to stay with kind of movement employment in 0:30:04.600 --> 0:30:08.760 this sector. And so in terms of publicly being able 0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:11.560 to speak about how we're being thrown under the bus currently, 0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:15.040 there are not many folks with the expertise who are 0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:16.240 free to do that. 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.360 Yeah, I mean, I remember, like I'm not a policy person, right, 0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:20.959 Like I have I have, you know, part I mean 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:22.800 parts of this is an analytical thing, right, Like I 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:25.440 bailed out of going to law school because I had 0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:27.920 to read that, I had to read the Clean Air Act, 0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:30.040 and I was like, I will literally die if I 0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:32.400 have to do this for a living. But you know, 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:36.040 I remember when when the sort of Title nine stuff 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:39.280 came out and when and I remember trying to talk 0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:42.360 about it. I remember like the pushback that I got 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:44.600 for being like, wait, this sucks. It was enormous. It 0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:47.920 was this like incredible sort of broad front pr campaign 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.480 from just so many different and not even just you know, 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:53.960 it had filtered down to the point where like it 0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:56.720 wasn't just like these origs. It was like just like 0:30:56.720 --> 0:30:59.080 like the random people on Twitter who's supposed to follow 0:30:59.120 --> 0:31:01.560 policy stuff were only in line. Like everyone was coming 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:06.240 in and it was just like absolutely terrifying, Like kind 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:07.840 of those people. 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:11.520 Don't actually read policy. That's the thing that policy reporters don't, right. 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:17.440 Yeah, and so many such cases, and. 0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:21.800 So most people who report on policy or or kind 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:27.160 of are follow policy do tend to kind of stick 0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:29.880 in the realm of those press releases and initial initial 0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:34.120 articles based on press releases and so if there is 0:31:34.440 --> 0:31:38.200 not kind of sincerity and truthfulness on the part of 0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:42.520 the orgs that are the trusted, you know, speakers in 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:47.280 this space, then this stuff gets successfully laundered. And I 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:52.680 think it's intentional. I think that it, on one hand, 0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:57.240 is an intentional move to prevent and stemy actual grassroots 0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:02.280 organizing around sincere and real and pressing trans needs. Because 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:04.120 if you're trying to get a lot of people fired 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:08.040 up about trans healthcare is like on fire, and half 0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:10.040 the like half the trans kids in the country don't 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:12.800 have we have to like this is act up shit time. Right, 0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:16.080 But if everybody that you know is on your email list, 0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:20.600 if most of them have seen HRC and NCT and 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:24.600 all these places put out these blowing press releases, people 0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:27.480 are like, you're crazy. If things are fine, Jo's moving 0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:30.960 things for We're good. And then also I think they 0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:33.680 have kind of backed themselves into a corner in terms 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:36.680 of how a lot of Libs have have backed themselves 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:38.800 into a corner at this point. Right, they know that 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.480 Trump is worse on policy, even if Biden has done 0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:47.239 barely anything, Trump is obviously worse for trans people, and 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:54.280 so they're they're allowing electoral weirdness to control actual kind 0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.560 of policy coms in a way that I find really 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:02.920 really frustrating. And then I think is not doing trans people, 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:04.840 especially in the South. It's not treating them with the 0:33:04.840 --> 0:33:08.080 respect that they deserve from their the organizations that claim 0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:09.600 to represent them. 0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:14.080 Yeah, and this is a thing that Okay, this is 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:15.920 this is going to sound like a weird sidebar, but 0:33:16.000 --> 0:33:18.560 I promise if you follow this train of logical do worthy. 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:20.680 This is something you actually this is a debate You 0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:24.120 get a lot more clearly in Latin American social movements, 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:28.080 where because because their social movements are significantly stronger from 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.280 the social movements in the US, right, they are their 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.480 own sort of coherent like political basis. 0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:35.880 You get this like a labor movement. 0:33:36.800 --> 0:33:38.600 Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, like you know that this 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:40.280 is the thing about the labor movement. Like you know, 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:42.680 if if you look at for example, Bolivia, which has 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:45.719 very very strong social movements or like has traditionally had 0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:47.520 very strong labor movements in a lot social movements in 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:49.600 the last twenty thirty years, right, I mean, like their 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.320 labor movement throws dynamite at bosses, right, Like you know, 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:54.520 so like they have they have a very strong movement. 0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:56.560 And but one of the questions of these movements, and 0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:59.120 this is something that has just torn apart the m 0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:02.680 as they're there's sort of like supposedly movement political party, 0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:06.880 is this question of to what extent should you integrate 0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:10.840 your social movement with the state. And you know, and 0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:13.280 this is a long this is a long running debate 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:17.840 in Budge social movements. Various movements have picked different directions. 0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:19.600 Some of them have become very unfolded in the states, 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:21.359 some of them have resisted it. And there are you know, 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:24.719 there are benefits and problems with both. But one of 0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:27.880 the big issues with trying to sort of incorporate yourself 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:32.279 into the state is that the state isn't just a 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:34.640 kind of neutral body. It will, you know, it's it's 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:36.200 not just that you're working with the state. The state 0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:38.120 is also working with you, and it will attempt to 0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:42.120 and in its political parties will attempt to seize control 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:44.800 of your organization and turn your organization into just a 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.400 sort of into you know, into basically a pr outlet 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:49.680 for whatever thing it's doing. And this becomes a real 0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:54.040 problem when you're you know, your your party is trying 0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:54.640 to screw you. 0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:55.439 Yeah. 0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:57.640 I mean this came to ahead in twenty twelve where 0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:00.640 there was a huge fight in Bolivia over a plan 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:03.160 by the MS to build a highway through a bunch 0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:06.759 of indigenous land. And this this basically split the base 0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:09.279 of the party, right because the MAS had been sort 0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:12.080 of an indigenous socialist movement, and it got split between 0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:14.160 the people who supported building this growth of the people who didn't. 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:18.239 And so like even Moreles has riot police stormed the 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:21.240 offices of one of the of one of the indigenous 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:24.600 federations and like replaces them, like replaces their leadership with 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:26.200 guys who are loyal to him, who will push this 0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:28.560 thing through, right. And you know, I mean the reason 0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:29.919 I'm talking about this is the kind of social movement 0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:31.920 stuff I studied in college, right, And it's like and 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:33.840 now in the US, we were like kind of starting 0:35:33.920 --> 0:35:35.840 to get to the point where we have real social movements, right, 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:39.200 and we've seen sort of like BLM, you know, we 0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:41.640 we sort of have something that is a career movement, 0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:45.560 and we're running into exactly the same thing where yeah, 0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:46.600 like if you you know, this is the thing you 0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:48.439 can talk about more stifically in the US, but it's like, yeah, 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:51.839 like these orgs are on are are in in the 0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:54.839 middle of this sort of state capture process, right, and 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:59.719 this has having really really dogshit effects on queer people 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:03.200 because is when when these organizations are you know, become 0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:05.640 becomes sort of media arms or become sort of political 0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:09.799 arms of these party apparatuses. They're not representing you, They're 0:36:09.800 --> 0:36:13.160 representing the party and I and. 0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:15.239 I think that one one of the easiest places to 0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:16.879 kind of see the dynamic that you and I are 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:20.840 talking about in current US politics is in the discourse 0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:22.240 around palace and any liberation. 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:22.799 Right. 0:36:22.880 --> 0:36:27.000 Yeah, if you try to talk with anybody about palace 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:29.960 and any liberation, you get beset upon on all sides 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:32.000 by people saying, well, do you want Trump to win? 0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:35.279 You think Trump's gonna be better? This like electoral project 0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:40.799 takes precedence over you know, politics guided by core values 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:43.600 so quickly and so overwhelmingly. 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:47.120 Yeah, And I mean, and it's it's accelerated to a point. 0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.720 I mean, this is something I remember in it during 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:51.880 the Trump years, we would we would joke about this 0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.279 about sort of the spinelessness of liberalism, Like it used 0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:56.800 to be a joke that like if the democratic president 0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.040 did a genocide, people would go, oh, well, you still 0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:00.759 have to support them because the other tup and now 0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:01.920 it's literally happening. 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:07.320 Yeah you know, I mean well, so I actually started 0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:09.719 working at Nationals. I took the drop at transfer A 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:13.920 Law Center right after Trump took office, and so my, 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:18.400 you know, it was very easy for me to especially 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:21.600 as someone who you know, had never worked at large 0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:24.640 avoccine nonprofits before, because go figure, there's no money in 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:27.200 doing transwork in the South that was scrappy and under 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:30.879 resource as fuck. I got to delude myself, I think, 0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:36.040 because you know, Trump is such a uniquely dangerous force 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:40.360 that a lot of people alongside me and the movement 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.799 were had the same shared the values with me, because 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:47.000 I could see them being equally strident and vocal on 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.160 kind of all the bad things that were happening. And 0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:51.920 then you know, it's almost it's a tire joke at 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:54.120 this point, but you know, Biden took over and the 0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:56.319 kids were still in cages and everybody else shut up, 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.160 and I looked around and I'm like, wait, I'm. 0:37:58.040 --> 0:38:00.400 Still I still okay, Yeah, the hell or all go 0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:02.680 Like I want to yell about that for a second, 0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:05.840 because like so I kind of like this, this was 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:07.319 like my sort of well, I mean, I guess my 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:09.759 technical origin story. There's a slight longer thing this, but 0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:12.960 like my me being a person that any would listen 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:15.120 to as a product of being involved in occupy Ice 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.520 and like you know, going out and finding like you know, 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:19.520 I mean, the sort of horror of that, like you 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:22.799 can fucking hear people yelling from the inside of these 0:38:22.840 --> 0:38:27.160 buildings that they're being fucking held in. And now, you know, 0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:30.040 Biden like, well, we'll do a longer thing about this 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:32.640 at some point, but like Biden is you know that 0:38:32.640 --> 0:38:34.600 that fucking bill that they were trying to pass like 0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:37.160 absolutely unbelievably fascist one saying that the president has the 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:39.320 right to close the border. She's trying to just fucking 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:40.279 do it anyways. 0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:43.640 Yeah, and and they're still doing concpts about it making 0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:45.560 them they think it makes them look good. 0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:48.840 No, it's it's like it's they're they're they're doing just 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:52.000 pure evil. Like again, like literally, without like James and 0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:54.200 his friends, there would be pile like there's still are 0:38:54.280 --> 0:38:56.960 corpses floating up in the fucking rivers on the border, 0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:59.000 but there would be fucking like there would be stacked 0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:02.600 like mounds of corpses of people who fucking starved or died, 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.239 Like if literally James and his friends weren't down there 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:08.480 on the border right now, that and you know, and yeah, 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:10.520 likes this is the thing you're talking about. It's like, 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:12.719 I remember all these people in the streets for this. 0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:15.080 I was like, I was there, I was fucking helping 0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:19.399 to organize this stuff. And then like you watch them 0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:22.440 walk away. Yeah, it's terrible. 0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:25.480 And I want to make clearer that you know, you're 0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:28.360 talking about kind of the pressure that a party in 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:32.280 power can can apply and the way in which these 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:36.239 organizations can be captured, especially just due to how nonprofit 0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:38.520 funding is a whole cluster fucking and how it works 0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:43.520 here in the US. But I so, I actually by 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:49.440 a White House staffer called my executive director within an 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:53.920 hour of my boss forwarding the White House an analysis 0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:56.840 of mine that I'd written for a state without reading 0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:59.840 it herself at all. And in this analysis I included 0:39:59.880 --> 0:40:04.040 a dismal assessment of the likelihood that the federal government 0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:06.440 would use its power to prevent implementation that saw this 0:40:06.560 --> 0:40:08.400 was a this was a healthcare band, that a novel 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:10.359 healthcare band that the estate wanted to quit turn around one 0:40:10.960 --> 0:40:13.400 and so my boss direct boss forwarded it to the 0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:15.840 White House, who had asked for analysis on it without 0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:19.440 reading it at all. And within an hour of my 0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:22.760 boss forwarding it to the White House, the White House 0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:26.759 had called our executive director to complain about me and 0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.200 I got written up for it. That is the fastest 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:33.319 turnaround on anything trans that anybody has gotten out of 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.120 this White House. And it was it was getting me, 0:40:36.120 --> 0:40:39.520 me disciplined for in a in an analysis that was 0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:42.520 not for them not being super impressed with their with 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:44.640 their trans policy. And I and I have heard I 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:46.880 have you know a lot of colleagues in the movement, 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:52.839 the folks I trust completely on trans policy. And I 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:56.040 know for a fact that I am not the only 0:40:56.120 --> 0:40:59.759 person that has had a situation like that occur. And 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.440 so there they are applying pressure and even in the 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:08.440 most direct ways to you know, the advocacy organizations. So 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:09.880 it it, it is happening. 0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:13.560 Yeah, And I think the thing I wanted to close 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.680 on was talking about a bit about like the consequences 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:19.040 of this, because what happens when this this is you know, 0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:21.880 this is part of going back to me talking about Bolivia, 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:25.120 Like this is part of how even Moralees got overthrown 0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:28.239 in the coup, was that because the social movements, like 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:29.640 most of the like a lot of these social movements 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:32.000 have been sort of weakened to the point where they 0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:34.399 know they no longer had you know, that they'd become 0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:37.160 policy organs at the state and not actual like fighting 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:41.160 movements that could like effectively resist. You know that that 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:42.759 that could do a thing like for example, like you know, 0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:45.200 if you look at the the the the original coup 0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:48.200 against Hugo Chavez, right, like, the social movements were so 0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:50.560 strong that even though the army literally did a coup, 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:54.480 they got fucking ran out by like several million uh 0:41:54.960 --> 0:41:58.279 Venezuelans taking to the streets and just like overturning the coup, 0:41:58.640 --> 0:42:02.160 right and that I I mean that happens later like 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:04.160 in like that there was you know, there there was 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:05.880 there was a second round of barricades that went up 0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:08.560 that got basically no press attention in twenty twenty. You 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:10.839 know that there's a whole comp I'll talk about that 0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:14.879 one day. And how hilariously after getting bailed out, even 0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:16.960 Rallies pulled his people off the barricades because they didn't 0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:20.680 actually want to overthrow the government. They just wanted an election. Obviously, well, 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:23.480 people off to keep the government intact long enough. He's 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:24.920 done this in many This is the second time he's 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:26.239 done this, by the way, this happened in the water 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:27.000 in the. 0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:28.799 Water Wars in twenty and six. 0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:32.120 But uh, you know, but but like in the initial 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:33.680 period of the coup, part of the reason this this 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:36.920 was able to happen again was because the capacity of 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:40.759 these groups to like overturn something like this had been 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:42.480 so new, or that they were able to sort of 0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:45.600 be defeated in the streets. And you know, we are 0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:49.120 we are watching our own version of this where, yeah, 0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:50.760 like I wanted to sort of talk to you about 0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:54.040 what's been happening the fucking hell escape that's been happening 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:57.839 in Louisiana, as you know, partially because of the sort 0:42:57.840 --> 0:43:01.719 of republican's fascist turn, but also because the resistance to 0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:04.680 them has been neutered by the fact that they're you know, 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:07.280 they have to like defend this Biden policy shit. 0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:11.360 Right, And yeah, so one important point to make about 0:43:11.400 --> 0:43:16.239 the federal the need for federal protections is that you know, 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:19.160 I live in Louisiana, federal protections are all I'm ever 0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:22.160 going to have, right, And so if the federal protections 0:43:22.520 --> 0:43:24.520 aren't there, and if there's not a federal government willing 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:27.880 to enforce them, I'm I'm in big trouble. Like I 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:30.720 would bet every single dollar I have, which is not many, 0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:33.960 that my medicaid will not will not cover my hormones 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:36.960 by the end of the year. Right, And so what 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:39.680 I what I think And I've highlighted kind of before 0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:41.680 when it was very clear that Jeff Landry was going 0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:44.000 to become governor after John Bell and actually did drug 0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:46.879 policy for John Bell for a while, and a lot 0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:49.960 of trans people were kind of quietly in his administration. 0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:53.640 I think that my friend Tucker, aside from Rachel Levine, 0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:58.239 was probably the highest ranked state executive branch transperson in 0:43:58.360 --> 0:44:00.600 history as deputy Press secretary for a while. Well yeah, 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:03.400 I'm not sure, but yeah, trans people busted asks to 0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:06.840 get John Bell elected. And so we had held off 0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:10.319 a lot of this stuff for a long time, not 0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:17.120 just through having a nominally democratic governor, but through the 0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:22.520 organizing in the South that that happens on no resources 0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:27.360 whatsoever is some of the most broad based and inspiring 0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.960 kind of coalitional organizing that I've ever seen, and I've 0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:35.000 done work all around the country, and the way that 0:44:35.040 --> 0:44:38.320 people are able to organize kind of cross issue here 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:44.040 is phenomenal. But we are all Jerry manderd to shit. 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:50.839 We get no money, attention resources from national groups off 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:55.040 in the media, and especially here in Louisiana and in 0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:57.520 much of the South, like we are not an attractive 0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:00.960 place for impact litigation because in the Fifth Circuit and 0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:03.839 all our state courts are shit, and so we really 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:06.839 kind of are on our own here in a all 0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:12.279 of a sudden Republican super majority legislature with an activist 0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:16.440 fascist governor and ag so Jeff Jeff Blandery is very 0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:18.760 much in the model of the disantis or an abbot 0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.920 in terms of what he is hoping to do in 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:24.440 Louisiana and what he's hoping to get out of it 0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:27.520 in terms of his own personal profile and ambitions. And 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.080 there's so much we could talk about in terms of 0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:32.560 what's going on here, but I want to highlight specifically 0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:35.200 s B two seventy six, which is the bill you 0:45:35.200 --> 0:45:37.320 may have seen headlines about. It's the bill that adds 0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:41.920 Mith pristone and muspristalled to the State Schedule for Controlled 0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:43.000 Substances Act. 0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:46.680 And can you can you explain what that what that 0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:47.960 actually means for people who. 0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:52.360 Do Yeah, so MYTH and MISO are used for a 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:54.360 lot of a lot of healthcare in terms of, for example, 0:45:55.280 --> 0:46:00.319 miscarriage management inducing labor in a hospital, but they can 0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:04.080 also be used for self managed medication abortion. And so 0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:06.120 this has not been done anywhere else in the in 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:09.759 the country where the leading the charge here, No other 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:14.320 state has ever added drugs like this to their controlled 0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:18.240 substances long and and so what that means is that 0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:22.040 those drugs are now going to be going through the 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:25.719 Prescription Monitoring Program the PMP, which has a lot more 0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:30.600 controls and surveillance than non controlled substances. Right, So the 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:34.239 Board of Medicine, the Board Pharmacy, and I'm trying, I'm 0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:36.680 trying to do a survey now to figure out which 0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:40.560 state agency specifically have like automatic inherent access to that 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:45.000 PMP database. But it makes it a lot more traceable 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.840 and trackable, which is which is really scary for anybody 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.719 trying to access reproductive and abortion healthcare in a place 0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:54.279 like Louisiana. And then the other thing it does is 0:46:55.520 --> 0:47:00.120 it raises the stakes phenomenally for the people doing the 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:02.080 kind of and I'm going to speak, I'm going to 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:03.799 try to speak very carefully, or the people doing the 0:47:03.880 --> 0:47:09.200 kind of direct practical support work to work with underserved 0:47:09.239 --> 0:47:13.200 populations to make sure that they can access healthcare services 0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:17.080 that they need. Right, And it is just a it 0:47:17.120 --> 0:47:19.719 is a fact of life that you know, just like 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:21.160 in the harm direction movement, there are a lot of 0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:25.160 people on the ground busting ass to get people what 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.200 they need. And you know, for a lot of times 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:32.720 for abortion funds, that's organizing money and transportation and hotels 0:47:32.760 --> 0:47:34.760 to get people out of state. Right since the Florida 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:36.920 abortion van, we can't send people there anymore. We have 0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:39.560 to send people to Illinois, which is more expensive and 0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:46.480 further way. And it's those people who are at risk, 0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:48.840 the people doing the work like the backbone of the 0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:52.799 on the ground grassroots practical support mutual aid work, that 0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:57.560 are risking. I think it's you know, five to ten 0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:03.400 years per pill if they are you know, providing them 0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:08.279 to someone else. It's it's terrifying, and there's no we 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:09.560 don't know what we're going to do about it. Yeah, 0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:11.160 I'm gonna call last night kind of like, what are 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:13.839 we going to do about this? We don't know because 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:17.400 it's it's scary, and then jumping back to kind of 0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:19.880 the problem with how not problem nonprofit and advocacy funding 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:23.759 works in this country, there are a lot of restrictions 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:26.640 that come that are you know, that organizations who are 0:48:26.680 --> 0:48:29.120 funded that way have to live with, Like especially I'll 0:48:29.160 --> 0:48:31.399 speak to the harm reduction world. For example, you'll get 0:48:31.400 --> 0:48:34.319 a grant at your syringe exchange and they're like, here's 0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:36.400 ten thousand dollars, but you can't spend any of it 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.759 on needles, and you're like, that's my biggest expense, That's 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.480 what I was going to you know, And so it's 0:48:42.520 --> 0:48:44.600 the same kind of thing. The more that this kind 0:48:44.640 --> 0:48:48.400 of work gets criminalized and pushed to the edge, the 0:48:48.520 --> 0:48:53.319 fewer resourced organizations are able to work on it, have 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:55.640 the money that we're going it, but be just there 0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:59.720 legal teams. The chilling effects of this stuff are massive, 0:49:00.280 --> 0:49:02.319 and so it just falls more and more on the 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:05.560 backs of kind of the grassroots folks who have always 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:07.960 been making this happen for community to the extent that 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:11.640 they can under the harshest of circumstances, and you know, 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:15.560 it's people like that are who are going to have 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:17.440 to make some really tough decisions going forward. 0:49:18.920 --> 0:49:21.680 Yeah, and you know, like the. 0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:24.280 It's never. 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:28.799 There's never been a good or safe time to do 0:49:28.840 --> 0:49:31.920 stuff like this. But you know, as it gets increasingly dangerous, 0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:35.480 and as you know, you get the sort of downstream 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:40.239 effects of both the sort of legal like but both 0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:42.880 the sort of legal danger and the sort of like 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:47.320 constricting of movement space by the sort of question of 0:49:47.320 --> 0:49:51.120 these engios, things just get more and more dangerous in 0:49:51.200 --> 0:49:54.080 a time where the people who need to be dangerous 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:56.160 is us because otherwise we are going to die. 0:49:56.880 --> 0:50:03.759 Yeah, scary time, but yeah, you know, we keep us 0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:07.359 fucking safe and yeah, always have and always will. And 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:10.960 it's going to be rough what we're heading into. But 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:14.719 you know, I again, the organizing in the South is 0:50:15.880 --> 0:50:19.600 I've never seen anything that's made me so proud to 0:50:19.680 --> 0:50:21.920 be an organizer and an activist as the work that 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:24.160 I see in the South. And so if there's anybody 0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:27.400 who can lead the way on how to respond to 0:50:27.480 --> 0:50:30.000 these things and how to take care of each other, 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:33.000 you know, it's it's our people. It's these people who've 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:33.760 been doing it forever. 0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:36.920 So yeah, and I think on that note, if people 0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:39.680 want to find you and the people you've been working 0:50:39.719 --> 0:50:42.399 with in the orgs that you're sort of working with, 0:50:42.520 --> 0:50:44.880 now where where where can they find that on the 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:48.239 Internet or I guess other places too. Are there other 0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:50.720 things that are not the Internet at. 0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:55.040 This point, I'm not, I really don't. Yeah, so you 0:50:55.040 --> 0:50:59.120 can find me on Twitter. I'm Gay Narcan on Twitter. 0:50:59.239 --> 0:51:02.279 That's that's me. And then if you are interested in 0:51:02.480 --> 0:51:05.080 supporting kind of the work that my collective is doing, 0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:07.920 the probably best place to go for that right now 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:12.120 is our first launched project called trans Income Project. It's 0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:15.440 trans Income Project dot org. And what that is is 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:19.879 an organization that is solely dedicated to doing direct cash 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:23.520 transfers to transsex workers in Louisiana. We just had some 0:51:23.560 --> 0:51:28.319 of our first listening sessions with folks and yeah, this 0:51:28.360 --> 0:51:29.760 is gonna be so kick ass. 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:31.120 So yeah, go go. 0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:33.759 There for that direct project. And then I would also 0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:37.759 encourage folks to take a look at Louisiana Transadvocates. I 0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:40.920 used to be president there. It's the state Transavacy organization. 0:51:40.960 --> 0:51:43.000 We're actually the state in the South that has had 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:47.959 the longest consistent trans presence at the Capitol through Louisiana Transadvocates, 0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:51.960 and we have no fucking money, so feel free to 0:51:51.960 --> 0:51:53.640 so maybe toss something over there too if. 0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:54.240 You get tired. 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:59.239 Yeah, I will say this, given how fucking zero dollars 0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:02.040 every time transperson has, like this is what are the 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.000 places where your individual dollar will go the furthest because 0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:07.959 you're like, you're your ten dollars is like a three 0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:11.280 hundred percent increase I like the total funding of these works. 0:52:12.280 --> 0:52:14.920 All right, Well, thank you so much for coming on 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:15.680 and talking. 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:17.680 About this, and thanks so much for having me. 0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:22.759 Yeah, and I guess my final final final message to 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:25.080 listeners go fuck him up. You can do you could 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:25.640 do it too. 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:32.919 Yeah, that I agree completely. Coastline. 0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:37.000 Hi everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to 0:52:37.000 --> 0:52:38.759 read you this today. I'm going to put it in 0:52:38.840 --> 0:52:41.520 our episode this week because it's a cause, it's important 0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:43.960 to us, and so we thought it would be something 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:46.000 that might be important to you too as well. On 0:52:46.080 --> 0:52:49.000 the tenth of June twenty twenty four, Leonard Peltier, the 0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:51.440 name rolled member of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:55.080 Lakota and Ojibwei Ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner 0:52:55.120 --> 0:52:57.799 in the United States will be appearing before the US 0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:00.280 Parole Commission for the first time since two thousand, thousand 0:53:00.320 --> 0:53:03.759 and nine. He faces staunch opposition from the FBI and 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:07.759 other law enforcement agencies due to having allegedly killed two 0:53:07.880 --> 0:53:10.560 FBI agents in a firefight on the twenty sixth of 0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:14.440 June nineteen seventy five, after the agents appeared on reservation 0:53:14.560 --> 0:53:19.360 land to execute a pretextural warrant. The initial firefight occurred 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:22.520 during the quote reign of terror on Pine Ridge in 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:24.919 the wake of the occupation of Wounded Knee, a time 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:28.040 of extreme violence when federal law enforcement installed a puppet 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:32.239 tribal chair and was arming vigilantes who targeted Indigenous traditionalists 0:53:33.280 --> 0:53:35.480 every since leading up to these events, as well as 0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:41.080 subsequent investigation and mister Peltier's tradition, trial, conviction, and sentencing 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:44.600 were characterized by gross misconduct on a part of law enforcement, 0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:49.319 the prosecution, and the courts. Mister Peltier's co defendants were 0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:53.080 separately tried and acquitted on grounds of self defense. Mister 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:56.400 Peltier was railroaded, and his case is tainted by discrimination 0:53:56.440 --> 0:53:59.880 at every level, ranging from the withholding of exculpatory evidence, 0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:02.800 to the torture and coercion of extradition and trial witnesses, 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:05.560 and from the refusal of the judge to dismiss and 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:09.560 vowedly racist Dura, to the apologetic gymnastics of the courts 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:12.800 affirming his convictions in the face of meritorious legal challenges 0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:17.680 and admitted evidence about rageous government misdeeds. Mister Peltier has 0:54:17.719 --> 0:54:20.759 been in prison for more than forty eight years and 0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:24.359 he's almost eighty years old. He suffers from chronic and 0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:28.600 potentially lethal conditions for which he receives insufficient and substandard 0:54:28.600 --> 0:54:32.759 medical care. If you want to take action to hashtag 0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:36.200 free Leonard Peltier, you can call the US Parole Commission 0:54:36.280 --> 0:54:42.080 at two zero two three four six seven zero zero zero, 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:44.359 And if you'd like to find more information on how 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:45.239 to support, you can. 0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:46.120 Go to this url. 0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:53.919 It's http colon slash slash n d NC dot c 0:54:54.040 --> 0:55:00.920 c slash free Leonard Peltier. That's free l e O 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:05.120 N A R D P E l t I E R. 0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:07.960 Or you can follow n d N Collective on social 0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:11.200 media for more ways to support him. More information on 0:55:11.280 --> 0:55:14.319 Leonard Peltier, listen to Margaret's podcast on the Lakota Nation. 0:55:14.920 --> 0:55:17.120 A read in the Spirit of the Crazy Horse by 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:33.600 Peter Mathewson. Hi, everyone, welcome to It could happen here 0:55:33.680 --> 0:55:37.680 podcasts about things falling apart and people putting them back together. 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:41.160 Today we're talking about a little of both of those things. 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:44.600 I'm joined by Rose, who's a migration activist in the Netherlands, 0:55:44.840 --> 0:55:48.160 and Mick, who has studied migration. We're going to talk 0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:51.399 about the EU's border today, and we're going to talk 0:55:51.440 --> 0:55:54.360 about I think a lot of people, especially the bulk 0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:56.280 of our listeners in the United States, won't be aware 0:55:56.400 --> 0:56:03.040 perhaps of how incredibly cruel and fatal the EU's border is, 0:56:03.200 --> 0:56:04.919 what it does to people, how it does it, where 0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:06.480 it does it. So we're going to talk about that today. 0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:09.360 It's very exciting. There's even more wall than we have 0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:11.520 in the United States, so I'm looking forward to that. 0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:13.480 And so HI, Welcome to the show. Both of you. 0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:16.680 Hi, Thanks, Hi, Thanks for having us. 0:56:16.760 --> 0:56:19.240 Thanks for being here. The way we wanted to structure 0:56:19.280 --> 0:56:23.960 this was Mick has like an excellent presentation for We're 0:56:23.960 --> 0:56:26.359 going to structure this over two episodes. First, we want 0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:28.000 to talk about the state of things and then we 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:31.960 want to talk about activism and ways that people can 0:56:32.280 --> 0:56:37.120 meaningfully make a difference in this situation. So, Mick, yeah, 0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:39.120 if you'd like to take it away with you with 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:41.880 your script here, Rose and I will interject whenever we 0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:42.520 feel like it. 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:46.520 Okay, fair enough, let's go. 0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:47.160 So. 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:52.600 The EU border crisis is largely crisis of the Mediterranean 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:56.239 to see that separates Europe from Africa, and it is 0:56:56.360 --> 0:56:59.080 arguably one of the most deadly borders in the world, 0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:03.719 if not the most deadly border. According to several activists 0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:09.600 organizations such as the United Against Refugee Devs and Abolish Frontex, 0:57:10.239 --> 0:57:14.279 which is the EU border agency in charge of protecting 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:18.720 the border, over fifty two thousand people have died at 0:57:18.720 --> 0:57:22.400 this border as of June twenty twenty three. This number 0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:26.200 is almost certainly higher to a number of factors, one 0:57:26.240 --> 0:57:28.919 of which is that a significant amount of bodies are 0:57:29.120 --> 0:57:32.160 never recovered, which makes it very hard to verify whether 0:57:32.320 --> 0:57:35.800 or not someone has died or is lost somewhere in 0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:40.080 the migration routs. Migration patterns are very hard to keep 0:57:40.120 --> 0:57:43.320 track of. People travel hundreds of kilometers to simply get 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:47.280 to a point where they can get access to boats, 0:57:47.400 --> 0:57:51.240 or other means of being transported across the sea. Yeah, 0:57:51.320 --> 0:57:52.960 I have a picture here that I would like to 0:57:53.000 --> 0:57:56.000 share with you. Listeners can find it in the notes 0:57:56.040 --> 0:57:56.800 and sources. 0:57:57.240 --> 0:57:59.760 Maybe we'll try and describe it, just so you know, 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.840 to ones driving or something they can I guess, yeah, 0:58:02.920 --> 0:58:04.560 go ahead, give give me a best shot. 0:58:05.600 --> 0:58:09.400 Okay. It's a map of continental Europe with adjacent to 0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:14.520 it Africa and Eurasia. And it's a bunch of arrows 0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:18.800 coalescing on to certain points that grow bigger and bigger. 0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:23.240 And these represent the migration routes and the number of 0:58:23.320 --> 0:58:26.480 people that take a particular path. As you can see, 0:58:26.480 --> 0:58:29.280 the thicker line, the thicker the line, the more people 0:58:29.280 --> 0:58:32.800 it represents. The thinner lines come from the Middle East 0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:36.000 and further to the east. In terms of obstacles and danger, 0:58:36.400 --> 0:58:38.840 I think it's safe to say that crossing Iraq or 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:40.800 Sybia is not without risk. 0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:45.880 Yeah. Yeah, I've done that. It's yeah, and I've done 0:58:45.880 --> 0:58:48.760 it in cause and with permission, and it's already pretty 0:58:48.800 --> 0:58:51.520 high risk. It's interesting this map is it is a 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:53.640 twenty seventeen map. Am I seeing that right? 0:58:54.240 --> 0:58:58.920 Yes, it's from the Frontex's quarterly reports too. Which covers 0:58:58.960 --> 0:59:01.040 April till June twenty seventeen. 0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:04.280 Yeah, so maybe this is after the peak of people 0:59:04.400 --> 0:59:09.960 leaving that Iraq and Syria area they like the yeah, 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:15.080 after Mayhem, Yes, yeah, exactly. Not not that there are 0:59:15.080 --> 0:59:17.600 not still significant numbers. I mean I speak to people 0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:21.840 in Syria most weeks who are trying to leave Syria. 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:25.480 It's become harder and harder due in part to the 0:59:25.480 --> 0:59:28.040 EU making its borders harder and harder and more and 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:30.040 more deadly to cross, and due to a number of 0:59:30.040 --> 0:59:33.000 other reasons. But yeah, I think those those lines would 0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:35.600 have been fatter if we'd gone back, like, you know, 0:59:35.640 --> 0:59:39.600 three or four years. Yeah, I mean people in Europe 0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:42.200 will probably have been familiar with this. I mean, of course, 0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:46.600 says the When was the photo taken of the the 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:50.120 young child who passed away cross That was Alida? 0:59:50.160 --> 0:59:51.720 I think that was in the summer of. 0:59:53.320 --> 1:00:00.680 Bottom Yeah, Alan Curdi, Yeah, the bois name was Allen Curdie. 1:00:00.880 --> 1:00:04.040 I think a brother of his ground as well. 1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:06.960 Yeah, people can look that up if they want to. 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:10.200 I'll try not to include it. It's quite a horrible 1:00:10.200 --> 1:00:11.280 thing to have to witness. 1:00:12.720 --> 1:00:16.600 No, it's not a nice photo to see ironically, it 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:19.680 was one of the few moments where like European people 1:00:19.720 --> 1:00:23.760 could muster some sympathy for refugees. But yeah, that wins 1:00:24.120 --> 1:00:27.080 at some point. Yeah, it's always the case. 1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.919 Like I don't know, I am talking about this before 1:00:30.000 --> 1:00:31.920 speak about again, but like the other day, I was 1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:33.840 out dropping water and we came across a little three 1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:36.160 year old girl and her mother from Guinea, and they 1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:40.440 the young girl was very hypothermic. Like at first we 1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:42.560 didn't notice because we're like, oh, this girl is very quiet, 1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:44.520 and then we're like, go, okay, this girl is very 1:00:44.640 --> 1:00:47.840 very quiet, and perhaps, you know, we should be concerned, 1:00:48.360 --> 1:00:51.880 and like, I don't know how, and no one in 1:00:51.960 --> 1:00:54.240 their right mind would be like, yeah, this is normal 1:00:54.280 --> 1:00:56.440 and good and I'm really glad that this child is 1:00:56.440 --> 1:00:58.160 in a place where, you know, if left for several 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:01.800 more hours, she might die. And everyone in that situation, 1:01:01.920 --> 1:01:04.280 to include people who were just driving by, were like, 1:01:04.960 --> 1:01:09.320 oh fuck, we need to help. But sadly, when we 1:01:09.400 --> 1:01:11.600 abstract it to numbers, which is the way it's always 1:01:11.640 --> 1:01:15.000 reported on, right, it's not stories, it's not people, it's 1:01:15.000 --> 1:01:18.760 not little children, it's fifty something thousand people. You know, 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:21.960 it's hard to imagine fifty something thousand people dying. It's 1:01:22.000 --> 1:01:23.880 easier to feel something for one little boy. 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:26.440 Yeah, And it's easier to feel something for a child 1:01:26.480 --> 1:01:29.560 than for a man. It's easier to feel something for 1:01:30.040 --> 1:01:33.040 a woman than men. And also even the death of 1:01:33.040 --> 1:01:36.920 Alanchourti despite all the yeah, outraged provoked. It was also 1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:40.600 used as a to make the Turkey Deal, which was 1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:44.360 intended to stop people crossing by boat from Turkey to Greece, 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:47.000 even though that was actually one of the safest migration 1:01:47.120 --> 1:01:49.160 routs we had at the time, and it closed up 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:52.480 and people started to move to Libya and instead of 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:56.400 three kilometers of sea, that meant people had to cross 1:01:56.480 --> 1:01:59.240 one hundred or more kilometers of sea, which was obviously 1:01:59.560 --> 1:01:59.960 way more. 1:02:00.800 --> 1:02:03.040 Yeah, and just so do you need to Libya? And 1:02:03.080 --> 1:02:06.160 that time in Libya's where we'll find out later, is 1:02:06.760 --> 1:02:07.880 far from risk free. 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:12.200 Yeah. Libya is a very different place than Turkey. 1:02:12.400 --> 1:02:19.480 Absolutely, Yeah, significantly worse to be than Turkey. So to 1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:22.040 get back on track, as you can also see from 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:25.920 the picture of a vast majority of those migration routes 1:02:26.200 --> 1:02:29.520 across the Sahara desert, people who die in the desert 1:02:29.680 --> 1:02:32.840 or through other dangers on their journey do not make 1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:36.240 it to the Mediterranean and therefore tend to not end 1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:39.360 up in the statistics of people dying there. But I 1:02:39.360 --> 1:02:42.800 would still argue that it is undeniable that those people 1:02:43.160 --> 1:02:46.600 in fact died due to the migration policies that the 1:02:46.640 --> 1:02:51.640 EU puts in place and enforces. Definitely, it's just outside 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:52.400 of our purview. 1:02:53.440 --> 1:02:57.240 The United list again of refugee deaths, it's taking into 1:02:57.240 --> 1:03:00.000 account anyone whose death can be attributed to the borders. 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:02.720 So they do also include people dying in the desert, 1:03:03.320 --> 1:03:07.040 but there is much less news about it, So the 1:03:07.040 --> 1:03:10.479 figures of frontecs and of IOM usually do not include those. 1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:13.240 But the number you just mentioned that with fifty two thousand, 1:03:13.760 --> 1:03:17.000 it also includes people who meet at suicide and detention 1:03:17.120 --> 1:03:19.960 centers or who died of medical neglecting camps. But it 1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:23.480 also includes people who died further from the European border, 1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:27.959 but still on borders are that are controlled or are 1:03:27.960 --> 1:03:29.760 influenced by European policies. 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:33.400 Yeah, in the US like to give a sort of 1:03:33.400 --> 1:03:36.480 comparison example that the statistics we have that come from 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:40.200 border patrol, those are the remains that are found, which 1:03:40.240 --> 1:03:42.480 is a subset of the remains that exist in it, 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:46.280 and it doesn't take into account people who died crossing 1:03:46.320 --> 1:03:48.920 Mexico Cree, people who died as Farsus as a Darian 1:03:49.000 --> 1:03:53.240 gap right, which is very dangerous and it's becoming more 1:03:53.280 --> 1:03:56.080 so as more traffic goes across it. People who died 1:03:56.080 --> 1:03:59.320 taking boats around the Darien Gap right, or for whatever reason, 1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:02.600 didn't make it. So we too have this kind of 1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:06.120 attempt to I guess when we get government statistics, we 1:04:06.160 --> 1:04:08.200 have to remember that they come from a government perspective 1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:12.000 and they will try and minimize the obvious cruelty that's happening. 1:04:12.440 --> 1:04:16.240 I think that's a characteristic of almost every government that 1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:21.600 keep the numbers low and don't really engage with the 1:04:21.640 --> 1:04:24.440 actual problems that are at hand. So before we go 1:04:24.560 --> 1:04:28.040 into more specific territories, there are a few things that 1:04:28.080 --> 1:04:30.800 should be made clear. The EU does not follow their 1:04:30.800 --> 1:04:34.440 own rules about migration. Hopefully at the end of this 1:04:34.720 --> 1:04:37.840 the listeners will also accept that the humanitarian and migration 1:04:38.440 --> 1:04:43.320 crises is much more a product of border policies rather 1:04:43.400 --> 1:04:47.760 than the policies being a consequence of migration. To first 1:04:47.800 --> 1:04:51.360 illustrate this, here is a quote from Government l the 1:04:51.400 --> 1:04:56.280 English version of the Dutch government websites asylum or a turn. 1:04:56.720 --> 1:05:00.360 All refugees entering the EU may apply for asylum. They 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:02.800 must do this in the country where they enter the EU. 1:05:03.280 --> 1:05:07.000 Asylum seekers who do not require protection must return to 1:05:07.040 --> 1:05:10.560 their country of origin or to a save a third country. 1:05:10.960 --> 1:05:14.480 The EU respects the human rights of refugees, both when 1:05:14.520 --> 1:05:18.720 dealing with their applications and with regard to return. So 1:05:19.480 --> 1:05:22.680 I want you all to keep this in mind when 1:05:22.720 --> 1:05:26.800 we continue, because this phrasing ignores other policies that make 1:05:26.840 --> 1:05:30.439 it much harder for migrants and refugees to even enter 1:05:30.480 --> 1:05:34.800 the EU or to be able to apply for asylum. So, 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:38.000 and before we dive deeper into the atrocities that the 1:05:38.040 --> 1:05:41.760 EU enables, I think it's important to first briefly explain 1:05:42.000 --> 1:05:45.960 how the border system works and the history behind it. 1:05:46.080 --> 1:05:49.200 Europe is no stranger to migration and migrants, and it 1:05:49.320 --> 1:05:51.800 is something that has been happening in waves over the 1:05:51.880 --> 1:05:55.800 past three to four decades. In the early nineties, there 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:59.640 were multiple waves of migrants from Albania to other European countries. 1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:04.120 The main cause of this was the isolationist policies that 1:06:04.200 --> 1:06:07.960 were enforced by the communist regime that was in charge there, 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:10.800 the unrest that followed at the end of the regime, 1:06:10.960 --> 1:06:16.040 and the crisis of Kosovo. For those unaware, Kosovo had 1:06:16.080 --> 1:06:19.920 a war with Serbia for independence and Kosovari people are 1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:24.320 largely ethnic Albanians with the same language, and because of this, 1:06:24.440 --> 1:06:27.600 it was easier for Albanians to merge with the Kosovari 1:06:27.880 --> 1:06:33.480 refugees and use that to migrate further and easier into Europe. 1:06:34.200 --> 1:06:37.760 Other waves are caused by other geopolitical events, such as 1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:41.800 the Jasmine Revolution in Tunisia, which I think Mia and 1:06:41.920 --> 1:06:47.640 Roberts covered in their episode on self immolation. Yeah, okay, 1:06:47.960 --> 1:06:51.720 and much more down to everyone, the wars in Syria 1:06:51.760 --> 1:06:52.680 and Libya. 1:06:52.880 --> 1:06:56.080 My interest in the border has always run parallel to 1:06:56.160 --> 1:07:00.360 my interesting conflict in reporting on conflict, and like it's 1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:05.280 just become such a recurrent experience to either learn about 1:07:05.280 --> 1:07:08.840 conflicts at the border here because someone is telling me 1:07:08.880 --> 1:07:13.560 about them, or learn about often like repression of ethnic 1:07:13.680 --> 1:07:17.160 or national or religious minorities because someone here tells me 1:07:17.200 --> 1:07:20.080 about them, or to go somewhere, you know, I was 1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:25.640 in Syria in October, was in Iraq and then return 1:07:26.400 --> 1:07:30.120 and see people from there at our border, and like 1:07:30.840 --> 1:07:33.240 as people will be aware the asylum system and it 1:07:33.280 --> 1:07:35.640 will cover it later. The asylum system allows people who 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:39.720 are very in danger of persecution for various categories to 1:07:39.720 --> 1:07:43.760 apply for asylum. It's not functioning. It's not functioning in 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:45.880 the EU, it's not functioning in the US. Like I've 1:07:45.880 --> 1:07:49.280 seen that persecution with my own eyes and the consequences 1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:51.520 of it, and I've seen people try and get away 1:07:51.520 --> 1:07:54.640 from it. Every single time I'm in somewhere like that, 1:07:54.680 --> 1:07:57.880 people will ask me for help, and it is fucking 1:07:57.920 --> 1:08:01.400 heartbreaking to be like, yeah, the country that you see 1:08:01.560 --> 1:08:04.120 flying the F sixteens or the F thirty fives over 1:08:04.120 --> 1:08:07.520 your head, the planes that cost more than this entire 1:08:07.560 --> 1:08:10.560 town makes in a year. No, we can't have a functioning, 1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:13.000 fucking immigration system. Like in the case of the US, 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:14.920 it's this app which doesn't work and you can only 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:18.960 use it north of Mexico City, and it's this broken 1:08:19.000 --> 1:08:21.960 system leads to people they're not like getting in a 1:08:22.000 --> 1:08:25.360 boat across the Mediterranean, crossing the Daryan Gap, walking across 1:08:25.400 --> 1:08:29.360 the mountains of northern Mexico because they want to have 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:32.519 like a better iPhone. They're doing it because whatever the 1:08:32.560 --> 1:08:37.400 alternative is seems worse, and it's worth. People are fully 1:08:37.479 --> 1:08:41.320 aware that they're risking their lives on these journeys. It's 1:08:41.680 --> 1:08:44.519 you know, it's not that they live without access to 1:08:44.600 --> 1:08:47.519 news and the internet. They know about the death in 1:08:47.560 --> 1:08:50.720 the Mediterranean, they know about the Daryant Gap when I 1:08:50.760 --> 1:08:53.680 talk to migrants who haven't crossed the gap, like I 1:08:53.720 --> 1:08:56.120 was talking to group of Columbian migrants two or three 1:08:56.200 --> 1:08:59.559 days ago, and they were coming in to the US 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:02.840 through It's in an area east of hookumber which is 1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:05.240 very rugged and very mountainous, and they were coming into 1:09:05.280 --> 1:09:07.559 an open air attention site where border patrol holds them. 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:11.360 And I was talking to them, I say, how many 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:13.040 if you walked, how many if you flew. Most of 1:09:13.040 --> 1:09:16.360 them flew and then were able to work forward. The 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:19.959 ones who walked. Everyone was like, oh shit, that's horrible, 1:09:20.280 --> 1:09:23.360 Like you must have seen terrible things. Like they're very 1:09:23.360 --> 1:09:25.840 aware of how dangerous it's journeys are. The reason that 1:09:25.880 --> 1:09:28.000 they're taking them is because it seems like staying at 1:09:28.000 --> 1:09:29.480 home would be more dangerous. 1:09:30.360 --> 1:09:33.960 Yeah, although I would like to add that it's not 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:37.040 every migrant is a real refugee, and not every migrant 1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:39.960 has to be a real refugee. Yes, at least as 1:09:40.040 --> 1:09:42.880 the definition was established in the fifties by a bunch 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:46.640 of pretentious guys who kind of decided this is a 1:09:46.680 --> 1:09:49.559 good reason to migrate and all other reasons are not. 1:09:50.720 --> 1:09:53.280 At first, yeah, at first I worked in Greece and 1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:57.240 that was mainly with people of like what are considered 1:09:57.280 --> 1:10:01.120 like objectively real or good refugees, people from Afghanistan and 1:10:01.200 --> 1:10:04.240 Iraq and Syria, whereas when I was working in Bosnia 1:10:04.280 --> 1:10:08.880 it was mainly people from Morocco, Algeria and Pakistan. And 1:10:09.360 --> 1:10:12.200 a lack of opportunity can be a very good reason 1:10:12.240 --> 1:10:14.559 to move. I think most white people who moved to 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:16.439 America did so because of that. 1:10:18.120 --> 1:10:22.000 Not because they were imminently bombed in their home countries, 1:10:22.120 --> 1:10:24.840 but because they wanted to make something out of their 1:10:24.880 --> 1:10:27.800 lives and they didn't have opportunities at home. And I 1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:34.080 think this whole concept of refugee is meant to distinguish 1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:37.439 between good and bad reasons to move, and good and 1:10:37.479 --> 1:10:39.480 bad people migrants. 1:10:39.520 --> 1:10:42.679 In the end, people can do really dangerous things for 1:10:43.200 --> 1:10:45.679 giving their children a better life and if their children 1:10:45.720 --> 1:10:49.320 are not immediate danger, and the other thing I would 1:10:49.320 --> 1:10:52.639 like to stress is that I think the migration regime 1:10:52.720 --> 1:10:56.720 that we see today is very tightly connected to colonization 1:10:56.880 --> 1:11:01.280 and decolonization. For example, specifically in the Midlands, Surnam was 1:11:01.280 --> 1:11:03.760 a Dutch colony, and one of the reasons why the 1:11:03.880 --> 1:11:08.439 Dutch government agreed with decolonization was because the Dutch society 1:11:08.520 --> 1:11:11.080 started to get worried about all the black people showing up. 1:11:11.760 --> 1:11:16.640 So and the same something similar happened with the independence 1:11:16.640 --> 1:11:16.920 word that. 1:11:16.960 --> 1:11:21.640 Algeria fought against France. France preferred to give them independence 1:11:21.800 --> 1:11:24.320 rather than give them equal rights and access to the 1:11:24.439 --> 1:11:30.799 French territory. So lifting like creating those barriers and keeping 1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:33.000 people in the Global South after these. 1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:38.080 Countries became independent is very tightly connected with decolonization. But 1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:41.360 of course, especially with new colonization and new ways of 1:11:41.400 --> 1:11:43.840 controlling people in the Global South and exploiting them. 1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:47.240 Yeah, if we look at like the US context, the 1:11:47.320 --> 1:11:49.960 United States government has managed to engineer this sort of 1:11:50.000 --> 1:11:54.360 compromise where capital travels freely across the Americas and people don't, 1:11:54.720 --> 1:11:57.160 so it's possible for them to exploit lower wage labor. 1:11:57.479 --> 1:12:00.600 For US companies to exploit low wage labor Mexico and 1:12:00.640 --> 1:12:02.679 other countries to the South, but not for those people 1:12:02.720 --> 1:12:05.639 to come and seek a better way to better way 1:12:05.640 --> 1:12:08.479 of living in the country that is consuming the products 1:12:08.479 --> 1:12:12.519 of their labor and so like, this is obviously not 1:12:12.560 --> 1:12:14.400 new to people, right, this is a thing that's Appatista 1:12:14.479 --> 1:12:16.720 highlighted in nineteen ninety four and it's been the case 1:12:16.760 --> 1:12:19.800 for thirty years. But yeah, we have in the US 1:12:19.920 --> 1:12:23.920 because the United States colonialism like kind of a in 1:12:23.960 --> 1:12:27.320 a somewhat less overt way, although often in a pretty 1:12:27.320 --> 1:12:32.839 overt way. It's facilitated undemocratic regimes and a low quality 1:12:32.840 --> 1:12:35.479 of life for people all across specifically the Americas, but 1:12:35.560 --> 1:12:38.240 also the rest of the world, and it's now seeking 1:12:38.280 --> 1:12:41.600 to prevent those people from coming here after it destabilized 1:12:41.640 --> 1:12:45.519 to their countries, right or in the case of climate change, again, 1:12:45.600 --> 1:12:49.439 like the consumption habits of certain countries have had an 1:12:49.520 --> 1:12:52.280 impact on people all around the world, to include people 1:12:52.960 --> 1:12:57.880 in more diaeconomic circumstances. And it shouldn't be any less. 1:12:58.560 --> 1:13:01.519 We shouldn't have any less empathy or solidarity with those 1:13:01.520 --> 1:13:04.599 people because no one's bombing them and they just want 1:13:04.600 --> 1:13:06.280 a chance to their kids to do the same shit. 1:13:06.360 --> 1:13:07.840 Like I moved to America and I was twenty one, 1:13:08.160 --> 1:13:09.679 because they want many jobs for me at home. 1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:14.160 Like there's something very arrogant about thinking that you can 1:13:14.200 --> 1:13:17.519 decide whether someone else has a right to exist totally, 1:13:17.880 --> 1:13:20.679 And I think that's kind of what migration policies are. 1:13:21.800 --> 1:13:24.559 Yeah, and as you pointed out, they were established after 1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:27.759 the after the Second World War with a very narrow 1:13:27.840 --> 1:13:30.400 set of categories. Don't include not only do not include 1:13:30.400 --> 1:13:33.640 climate change, but also like generalized violence, right, the generalized veru. 1:13:33.760 --> 1:13:36.360 Yeah, Actually fleeing from a war is not is not 1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:39.360 making you a real refugee according to international law. 1:13:39.439 --> 1:13:41.280 Yeah, yeah, which is something people don't know. 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:44.960 So like an average sharing refugee is actually legally not a. 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:47.120 Refugee, right. Yeah, they are flying in. 1:13:47.080 --> 1:13:50.320 Discriminate violence, but not like they don't have like political 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:52.800 they don't have a right to political asylum. 1:13:52.920 --> 1:13:56.800 Yeah, Or people in Ecuador will will talk to talk 1:13:56.840 --> 1:13:58.280 to people from Ecuador a lot, you know, and they'll 1:13:58.280 --> 1:13:59.840 be like, well, you've seen men they took over the 1:13:59.800 --> 1:14:01.960 TA TV station, So there's some gangs to go over 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:03.960 a TV station there recently, and it's kind of an 1:14:04.439 --> 1:14:06.639 armed takeover. And then like, as you can see, would 1:14:06.640 --> 1:14:08.439 you want your child growing up there, you know, if 1:14:08.439 --> 1:14:12.240 you had children, and of course it's a very compelling argument, 1:14:12.479 --> 1:14:14.960 and if I was in their position with young children. 1:14:15.800 --> 1:14:18.639 Want guy I met the other day his son needed 1:14:18.640 --> 1:14:21.439 medical care that he couldn't obtain in his country. You know, 1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:25.200 like that's a perfectly valid reason for coming here. But 1:14:25.360 --> 1:14:27.840 none of those things count for asylum. So those people 1:14:27.920 --> 1:14:31.120 are i'd a lumped into quote unquote economic migrants, which 1:14:31.160 --> 1:14:33.360 is still you know, like people have a right to 1:14:33.360 --> 1:14:36.000 a living wage and to be able to pay for 1:14:36.040 --> 1:14:37.840 their family, to have the things that they need to 1:14:37.880 --> 1:14:41.160 survive and thrive. But you're right, the asylum system is 1:14:41.240 --> 1:14:41.679 very narrow. 1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:45.240 Yeah, and we should also not forget that, even if 1:14:45.360 --> 1:14:52.280 we're excluding war, you can't really separate migration from the 1:14:52.400 --> 1:14:55.240 things the West has done in those other countries to 1:14:56.320 --> 1:15:02.559 maintain that neo colonial relationship, and you know, those keep 1:15:02.640 --> 1:15:06.120 those people dependent on whatever whims there are in the West, 1:15:06.560 --> 1:15:10.599 and whether that's for resources, whether that's for because there 1:15:10.600 --> 1:15:14.360 were like the communist regimes there that we weren't happy with. Like, 1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:18.720 you can't separate that. You can separate the conditions that 1:15:18.760 --> 1:15:23.200 are happening there right now to things that have been 1:15:23.240 --> 1:15:26.519 decided in the West years prior. 1:15:27.320 --> 1:15:41.559 Yeah, very true. All right, we're back. Have you enjoyed 1:15:41.560 --> 1:15:45.240 those adverts for products and services following our discussion on 1:15:45.320 --> 1:15:47.760 how capitalism has made life unliverable in certain parts of 1:15:47.760 --> 1:15:50.040 the world, So Mick kil let's pick up with you 1:15:50.080 --> 1:15:51.720 explaining this to see border to. 1:15:51.760 --> 1:15:55.320 Us Well, I found a very nice scholarly article that 1:15:55.479 --> 1:15:58.960 breaks down how the EU borders work and makes a 1:15:59.040 --> 1:16:04.559 very clear distinction between the different layers that protect fortress Europe. 1:16:05.560 --> 1:16:09.320 These layers will be called the paper border, which largely 1:16:09.400 --> 1:16:14.599 consists of visa policies and similar bureaucracy that regulates movement 1:16:14.720 --> 1:16:17.800 to the EU and within it. Then we have the 1:16:17.840 --> 1:16:21.240 iron border, which is exactly what you imagine it. To me, 1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:26.760 it's the physical structures and forms of control that we 1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:29.320 put up to keep people out. And then we have 1:16:29.360 --> 1:16:33.720 the post border, and that's about the reception of migrants, 1:16:33.800 --> 1:16:38.800 migrant shelters and similar constructions that keep migrants and refugees 1:16:39.479 --> 1:16:44.680 ostracized and isolated even after being allowed access into the 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:49.800 EU and having started a asylum process. For those stories, 1:16:50.200 --> 1:16:52.880 we should turn to Rows when we get there, because 1:16:52.880 --> 1:16:54.880 she is much more on the ground experience than I 1:16:54.960 --> 1:16:58.400 have with this, so we'll start with the paper border. 1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:01.200 During the mid eighties, the e WHO started to propose 1:17:01.240 --> 1:17:05.080 and enact a series of treaties and policies that in 1:17:05.120 --> 1:17:10.439 effect strengthened the external borders and loosened the borders within Europe. 1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:14.000 I think no one is particularly interested in this series 1:17:14.000 --> 1:17:18.320 of treaties, so I will name the only one is 1:17:18.360 --> 1:17:24.520 the Shangan Treaty. This treaty essentially unites the external borders 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:28.759 under EU command rather than as a task for individual states. 1:17:29.560 --> 1:17:32.400 In practice, this also means that EU citizens who have 1:17:32.720 --> 1:17:38.280 a proper documentation can move freely between countries. Are who 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:42.759 have signed the Shangan Treaty for holidays or work os, 1:17:42.800 --> 1:17:45.240 You and I we could move to Germany tomorrow if 1:17:45.280 --> 1:17:48.800 we wanted to, and I have little to know obstacles 1:17:48.840 --> 1:17:49.560 in terms. 1:17:49.280 --> 1:17:54.639 Of documentary Economically independent though, like that is very crucial 1:17:54.680 --> 1:17:58.160 about EO. Your fraend of movement is conditional. 1:17:57.760 --> 1:18:01.920 On you making money, yeah, having enough money to support yourself, 1:18:02.040 --> 1:18:04.120 but you can move like This is very funny because 1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:07.000 it pissed off British people who are living in Spain 1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:10.559 right when they when Britain brexited, because they hadn't realized 1:18:10.560 --> 1:18:13.200 that they would impact them. They you know, like such 1:18:13.240 --> 1:18:14.519 as a god thought it was. 1:18:14.439 --> 1:18:18.200 Only the Polish that we yeah, like the undesirable migrants. 1:18:18.240 --> 1:18:21.280 But yes, yes, assumed themselves to be desirable. 1:18:21.360 --> 1:18:24.200 Yeah, well yeah, I don't think we use the word 1:18:24.280 --> 1:18:26.640 expat right like Britain would use the word expact to 1:18:26.680 --> 1:18:30.040 describe a migrant from Britain to Spain, like it's yeah, 1:18:30.200 --> 1:18:32.479 it's really culou. I mean I've lived in France, in Spain, 1:18:32.479 --> 1:18:36.639 of fifd in Belgium and I was, I guess, somewhat 1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:39.720 economically independent, made twelve thousand years a year as a 1:18:39.840 --> 1:18:42.160 bike racer, but that was you know, I could do that. 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:43.160 It was very easy for me. 1:18:44.280 --> 1:18:44.680 But it is. 1:18:45.040 --> 1:18:47.200 I do think it's important because I think it's one 1:18:47.200 --> 1:18:51.439 of those post border things that what we see for 1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:53.840 some point analysis that most homeless people here are not 1:18:54.080 --> 1:18:57.800 the undocumented migrants, they are not the refugees or Dutch people, 1:18:57.800 --> 1:19:02.840 but they're EU migrants. So people have low paying jobs, 1:19:03.080 --> 1:19:05.400 break their legs, get kicked out of their houses and 1:19:05.560 --> 1:19:07.920 their jobs, and are not welcoming the homeless shelters because 1:19:07.920 --> 1:19:11.439 in Endlands says well, you are not economically independent therefore, 1:19:12.960 --> 1:19:16.320 so this is also part of the migration regime, and 1:19:16.360 --> 1:19:19.559 this is also part of keeping migrants exploitable. Even if 1:19:19.560 --> 1:19:22.320 you use citizens have the right to work, they don't. 1:19:22.760 --> 1:19:25.400 They're only allowed to work. We only want them if 1:19:25.439 --> 1:19:28.639 they bring in economic profits. We don't want them when 1:19:28.640 --> 1:19:29.439 they're sick or. 1:19:29.400 --> 1:19:30.280 In need or whatever. 1:19:30.840 --> 1:19:34.320 Yeah, and then mostly we want them for jobs that 1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:37.880 we feel too good to actually do. When I was younger, 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:40.800 I used to work in a greenhouse, and there's an 1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:44.920 immense amount of people from like Poland or other Eastern 1:19:44.920 --> 1:19:49.840 European countries coming there because Dutch people tend not to 1:19:49.920 --> 1:19:54.280 want to work in a greenhouse. It's one of those things. 1:19:54.560 --> 1:19:58.960 It's an extension of that like a colonial perspective. Right, 1:19:59.680 --> 1:20:00.639 these are jobs for. 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:05.200 Us exactly because you get your hands dirty and we 1:20:05.280 --> 1:20:09.719 can't have that here. To put the whole thing about 1:20:09.720 --> 1:20:14.280 the paper border into less academic term, the EU started 1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:17.200 to act like a nation state and started to make 1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:21.559 sharp distinctions between native and non native European citizens. I 1:20:21.600 --> 1:20:24.799 think it's worth pointing out that what counts as EU 1:20:24.960 --> 1:20:30.040 is also a supposed European identity. It's very closely tied 1:20:30.080 --> 1:20:35.880 to geographical location and therefore also implicitly linked to Christianity. 1:20:36.840 --> 1:20:40.280 Countries that are largely non Christian but connected to Europe 1:20:41.040 --> 1:20:44.600 tend to be excluded. Turkey is partially in Europe but 1:20:45.840 --> 1:20:50.000 not part of the EU, and Bosnia Herzegovina, which is 1:20:50.760 --> 1:20:55.559 a majority Muslim country, is also excluded from that. But 1:20:55.680 --> 1:21:00.280 much like Turkey is being tempted with the whole you 1:21:00.320 --> 1:21:03.720 can join if you do this and that, but we're 1:21:03.760 --> 1:21:06.400 not really committing to that. That, however, is a story 1:21:06.439 --> 1:21:10.000 for another time. Maybe the point that I want to 1:21:10.040 --> 1:21:12.760 make here is that the visa program for Europe is 1:21:12.800 --> 1:21:17.880 based on geographical discrimination. Countries outside the geography of Europe 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:21.639 are blacklisted and cannot gain access to the papers that 1:21:21.720 --> 1:21:26.280 they need to legally enter the EU. This bureaucracy prohibits 1:21:26.439 --> 1:21:30.559 people from entering the EU before fences or border guards 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:35.000 have even entered the equation, hence the paper border, since 1:21:35.160 --> 1:21:39.080 entering or crossing without a paper visa is nah impossible. 1:21:39.600 --> 1:21:41.400 Yeah, I would like to add, of course, like it 1:21:41.439 --> 1:21:45.080 is geographical discrimination, but of course indirectly it is discrimination 1:21:45.120 --> 1:21:48.519 based on class and race. So it is yea color 1:21:49.560 --> 1:21:52.280 but not the super rich people of color. And it 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:56.960 is yeah, it is. It is formerly colonized countries that 1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:00.479 are largely that even have an obligation to get so 1:22:00.520 --> 1:22:04.680 people from the US can travel visa free, same for 1:22:04.760 --> 1:22:09.719 people from Australia. So this is like, it is very ironic. 1:22:09.840 --> 1:22:13.000 I find that it's in Europe it's considered legal to 1:22:13.040 --> 1:22:16.960 discriminate based on nationality, even though it is very clearly 1:22:17.160 --> 1:22:20.800 a very smart way to discriminate actually people based on 1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:23.600 the color of their skin and their economic status. 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:28.160 Exactly what you said, Rose Like all the countries that 1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:32.479 are backlisted are like from the the global South, so 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:35.960 to speak, almost all of them. But I talked to 1:22:36.479 --> 1:22:39.559 about this with a professor of mine a while back, 1:22:40.000 --> 1:22:42.080 and I think if you can put down like thirty 1:22:42.160 --> 1:22:44.720 thousand euros, then you can get a visa even if 1:22:44.760 --> 1:22:45.759 you're from those countries. 1:22:46.080 --> 1:22:49.040 Exactly. So the super rich, actually, the super rich have 1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:53.160 freedom of movements. Yeah, but the it is always the 1:22:53.560 --> 1:22:57.400 poor migrants whose movement is problematic. 1:22:56.800 --> 1:23:00.400 And whose movement is Yeah. It Britain and in the 1:23:00.520 --> 1:23:03.280 US there's a lot of discourse about like open borders. 1:23:03.320 --> 1:23:05.680 I've noticed like, oh, the borders open, right, Like the 1:23:05.720 --> 1:23:09.559 border has always been open to people like me. I 1:23:09.640 --> 1:23:12.280 live in the United States, right, I am a US citizen. 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:15.519 Now I'm also a British citizen. I've lived and worked 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:17.320 in Spain. I've lived and worked in France. I've lived 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:19.599 and worked in Belgium. I can go and I can 1:23:19.640 --> 1:23:21.240 get a visa to Iraq. I can get a visa 1:23:21.280 --> 1:23:23.719 to anywhere I want. The borders have always been open 1:23:23.840 --> 1:23:28.559 to white people who have financial means. What they're saying 1:23:28.600 --> 1:23:31.479 when they're saying open borders is implicitly borders open to 1:23:31.520 --> 1:23:35.240 people who are not white, not wealthy, perhaps not Christian. 1:23:35.960 --> 1:23:40.160 And what one can infer from that is a great 1:23:40.160 --> 1:23:43.839 deal of bigotry and a great deal of like unease 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:47.559 about living, you know, alongside people who you feel like 1:23:47.640 --> 1:23:51.000 are not like the same quote unquote as you, which 1:23:51.040 --> 1:23:52.880 is particularly runic in the United States, right in a 1:23:52.920 --> 1:23:55.080 country which is a self a settler colony. 1:23:55.840 --> 1:24:01.320 Yeah, it's all very very uplifting stuff. I do want 1:24:01.360 --> 1:24:04.200 to end this particular bit with the quote from that 1:24:04.320 --> 1:24:08.679 article because I think it says it much more fancy 1:24:08.720 --> 1:24:11.680 than I ever could. Rather than guards with guns, this 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:14.880 first border, if the EU is watched over by bureaucrats 1:24:15.360 --> 1:24:19.360 armed with paper and entrenched in faraway embassies, through this 1:24:19.439 --> 1:24:23.879 political technology, all citizens of a large group of nations 1:24:24.320 --> 1:24:28.720 bar to view are blacklisted. This means, in practice that 1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:32.360 most of the citizens of these blacklisted countries cannot acquire 1:24:32.400 --> 1:24:35.599 the visas they required to legally travel to the EU. 1:24:36.400 --> 1:24:39.120 The implication is that the paper border of the EU 1:24:39.560 --> 1:24:44.320 remotely and invisibly cages people in the inequitable or tree 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:48.439 of birth end quote. I think it's very much worth 1:24:48.520 --> 1:24:52.840 highlighting that if you're as we've established, unless you're like 1:24:53.880 --> 1:24:59.920 wealthy or white, you cannot legally enter the EU. And 1:25:00.040 --> 1:25:03.120 even though our politicians keep saying no, no, we're just 1:25:03.160 --> 1:25:07.240 against the illegals, now, there is for a lot of people, 1:25:07.320 --> 1:25:11.760 there simply is no way to enter legally. It's impossible, 1:25:11.800 --> 1:25:14.080 And it's a large part of the conversation that we 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:19.480 conveniently ignore because it doesn't fit like the political narratives 1:25:19.680 --> 1:25:20.839 that people want to spread. 1:25:21.360 --> 1:25:25.320 Yeah, and of course, most retched deconventions allow for people 1:25:25.320 --> 1:25:28.040 to enter between ports of entry in whichever way they 1:25:28.080 --> 1:25:30.880 can to claim asylum, Like one does not have to 1:25:31.840 --> 1:25:34.400 enter in a certain way to claim asylum, despite what 1:25:34.439 --> 1:25:35.679 the discourse might suggest. 1:25:36.520 --> 1:25:39.000 Yeah, and I think this border is like probably the 1:25:39.040 --> 1:25:43.080 most overlooked because it doesn't create any dramatic pictures, right, 1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:45.400 it is indeed, it's just people sitting in an office 1:25:45.439 --> 1:25:49.040 and looking at papers and deciding no. But these are 1:25:49.240 --> 1:25:51.760 like in Dutch. Yeah, these are people working at the 1:25:51.800 --> 1:25:56.200 immigration office. And these are the people who then decide 1:25:56.320 --> 1:25:59.840 that's the only option for people is to go on 1:25:59.840 --> 1:26:04.320 a boat. So these these are policies and the people 1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:07.920 who are executing them are super crucial in enforcing people 1:26:07.920 --> 1:26:09.880 onto dangerous. 1:26:09.400 --> 1:26:13.960 Routes exactly because there is no way to do it legally. Therefore, 1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:17.799 I have to set food on that soil and then 1:26:18.200 --> 1:26:21.040 you know, apply for asylum because the other route is 1:26:21.120 --> 1:26:24.519 like before I even tried, already closed off. 1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:30.439 Yeah, and I really like that term, the inequitable a birth. 1:26:32.160 --> 1:26:35.519 We call it like support heads. Yeah, but it's one 1:26:35.600 --> 1:26:41.160 of the most insane or like most fundamentally unjust things 1:26:41.160 --> 1:26:44.479 that we see that we are living with and then 1:26:44.560 --> 1:26:47.080 we don't see or like that many people don't see. 1:26:47.160 --> 1:26:50.439 So just because we were born, like I was born 1:26:50.479 --> 1:26:52.400 in one of the richest countries of in the world. 1:26:52.520 --> 1:26:54.720 My parents had a Dutch fashboard. That's how I got 1:26:54.720 --> 1:26:57.439 a Dutch fastboard. I did literally nothing to get that. 1:26:58.240 --> 1:27:00.519 It is impossible for me to lose my Dutch passport. 1:27:00.520 --> 1:27:03.599 I commit, I can commit like the worst crimes, and 1:27:03.640 --> 1:27:05.559 they will not, you know, they will not lead me 1:27:05.600 --> 1:27:10.160 to lose my passport. Whereas other people who are born 1:27:10.479 --> 1:27:13.519 in countries where life expectancy is crazy low, or where 1:27:13.520 --> 1:27:16.880 there's no healthcare or no proper education or jobs, they 1:27:16.920 --> 1:27:19.160 too did absolutely nothing to be born there or to 1:27:19.240 --> 1:27:24.200 be assigned to that nationality. And so somehow this border 1:27:24.400 --> 1:27:29.200 and this passport is legitimizing the fact that some people 1:27:29.880 --> 1:27:33.040 just die and we're fine with that, and other people 1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:39.800 have insane privileges and opportunities, and the nationality is kind 1:27:39.840 --> 1:27:42.439 of a justification because if you really think about it, 1:27:42.479 --> 1:27:45.000 there is no reason why the minimum wage in Ethiopia 1:27:45.000 --> 1:27:48.320 should be lower than in the Netlands, Like there really isn't. 1:27:49.880 --> 1:27:52.320 The only reason is that they have a different nationality, 1:27:52.360 --> 1:27:56.960 and somehow that makes it normal. And if it's just yeah, 1:27:56.960 --> 1:28:00.840 it's just this injustice. Its structures that are so invisible 1:28:01.000 --> 1:28:04.800 and that are not questioned or talked about enough. So 1:28:04.800 --> 1:28:06.240 I'm glad we're talking about it today. 1:28:06.320 --> 1:28:09.280 But yeah, good. It's such a stark reality when you 1:28:09.320 --> 1:28:11.519 live on the border, like I live on the US 1:28:11.560 --> 1:28:15.160 Mexico border a like what on earth? Like, you know, 1:28:15.439 --> 1:28:18.320 the justification for being like, oh, yeah, this person should 1:28:18.320 --> 1:28:20.040 earn less money and they can't come here, but you 1:28:20.040 --> 1:28:21.720 can go down there and buy stuff at the same 1:28:21.720 --> 1:28:25.760 price they can. That's fine, Like it's totally fine. Yeah, 1:28:26.520 --> 1:28:28.519 and we're going to build a giant fuck off wall. 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:32.559 And it's just such when I spent a lot of 1:28:32.560 --> 1:28:34.400 time in the more remote parts of the US border, 1:28:34.439 --> 1:28:37.160 and for most of the time that border country to 1:28:37.160 --> 1:28:39.040 what you might have seen on the news is a 1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:42.439 one meter high cattle fence with a single strand a 1:28:42.479 --> 1:28:45.160 bar wire, and it's so obviously just a light like 1:28:45.439 --> 1:28:48.920 very often cattle will cross the border and like that 1:28:49.000 --> 1:28:52.880 will have to be herded back, right, like the it's 1:28:52.960 --> 1:28:55.080 just a notional line in the sand. When they built 1:28:55.080 --> 1:28:58.759 the border wall, it really fucked up the migration habits 1:28:58.960 --> 1:29:01.520 of jaguar bears. 1:29:01.840 --> 1:29:02.160 Dea. 1:29:02.280 --> 1:29:06.360 I've seen animals unable to comprehend, Like, but no, that's 1:29:06.360 --> 1:29:08.360 where I go and get my water, right, Like, it's 1:29:08.400 --> 1:29:12.320 such an arbitrary distinction that it results in so much cruelty. 1:29:13.400 --> 1:29:15.200 But we do build walls better than you. 1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:18.960 Yeah, that's a good segue to the European iron boarder. 1:29:19.439 --> 1:29:22.520 One thing we are more cruel at than the Americans. 1:29:23.080 --> 1:29:26.519 Yeah, yeah, finally something we can beat the American sets. 1:29:26.760 --> 1:29:27.479 Yeah, I'm mad. 1:29:27.720 --> 1:29:28.960 We're working on it, believe me. 1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:31.920 Okay, well, not too hard. We want we want to 1:29:32.000 --> 1:29:33.439 keep this trophy for a while. 1:29:34.760 --> 1:29:37.240 You know what else is competing to be the most 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:42.680 cruel Mick, No, it's it's it's potentially the products and 1:29:42.720 --> 1:29:56.040 services support this show. All right, we're back. We hope 1:29:56.080 --> 1:29:58.439 you enjoyed those products and services. Hopefully it wasn't for 1:29:58.560 --> 1:30:03.720 like a border surveillance technology or you know, something similar walls. 1:30:04.200 --> 1:30:08.080 Okay, so the next part is the Iron Border. This 1:30:08.200 --> 1:30:11.400 is very similar to what people already think of, but 1:30:11.960 --> 1:30:16.000 somehow worse. The Iron border is a collection of fences, walls, 1:30:16.320 --> 1:30:20.200 barbed and razor wire, or even fortified enclaves such as 1:30:20.560 --> 1:30:25.439 Suta and Melilla in Spain. Sorry for butchering those names. 1:30:25.720 --> 1:30:30.639 It is both a deterrent and a performance like. It's 1:30:30.680 --> 1:30:34.280 meant to project security for people within the walls. It 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:38.120 shows that EU uses an iron fist to protect Europeans 1:30:38.160 --> 1:30:44.639 from irregular or illegal immigrant migration. What is more important 1:30:44.680 --> 1:30:47.799 to highlight, it also makes for very good outrage media 1:30:47.920 --> 1:30:52.240 for right wing and fascist platforms. Refugees will continue to 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:56.360 breach those fences, and the photographs and videos of it 1:30:56.400 --> 1:30:59.560 made for very good propaganda about how borders need to 1:30:59.600 --> 1:31:03.200 be strengthed. The fence borders of Europe have increased from 1:31:03.400 --> 1:31:08.040 three hundred kilometers in twenty fourteen to its shocking two 1:31:08.120 --> 1:31:11.559 thousand and forty eight kilometers in twenty twenty two. 1:31:12.160 --> 1:31:17.320 Yeah, that's substantiary than the US we have. Of course, 1:31:17.320 --> 1:31:21.759 it's America, so it's miles. But the most generous estimate 1:31:22.240 --> 1:31:26.600 based on pre existing wall repairs Trump wall building is 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:29.840 seven hundred and forty eight miles. That was actually I 1:31:29.840 --> 1:31:31.720 would say about seven hundred and fifty because I've seen 1:31:31.960 --> 1:31:36.400 construction happening since then, so that's what like eleven hundred kilometers. 1:31:36.920 --> 1:31:39.720 It's you know, we're just just over half of what 1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:40.840 the EU has. 1:31:42.160 --> 1:31:44.720 And I think for me, like when I when I 1:31:44.880 --> 1:31:48.400 was at the physical borders, like the border walls, I 1:31:49.080 --> 1:31:51.160 mean it feels like a military zone, like I was 1:31:51.160 --> 1:31:54.120 on the Hungarian border. There's drones, there is super heavily 1:31:54.840 --> 1:32:00.320 weaponed soldiers walking around, like helicopters flying around. It's a 1:32:00.400 --> 1:32:04.719 very intimidating feeling. But if you talk to the people 1:32:04.760 --> 1:32:06.800 crossing the fence, the fence is kind of a joke, 1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:10.040 like you can just bring Yeah, you can just go 1:32:10.120 --> 1:32:13.120 to a gardening shop and buy a stairs or like 1:32:13.120 --> 1:32:15.800 a ladder and just put it over the fence. You 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:18.400 can buy a super simple scissor that you would use 1:32:18.439 --> 1:32:20.519 in the garden to cut your vegetables and you can 1:32:20.640 --> 1:32:23.720 cut the fence open with it. People were building tunnels, 1:32:23.760 --> 1:32:27.519 like of course it takes time to cross it, and 1:32:27.600 --> 1:32:31.880 it's so in that sense, it's a hindrance. But the 1:32:32.040 --> 1:32:35.479 entire promise that if a wall holl stop people is indeed, 1:32:35.520 --> 1:32:38.519 it's just a political game, and the politicians know that 1:32:38.560 --> 1:32:42.519 it's not true. It's just a way to show how 1:32:42.560 --> 1:32:45.800 tough they are and how rough they are. And at 1:32:45.800 --> 1:32:48.599 the same time, I think this is a good moment 1:32:48.640 --> 1:32:54.840 to instate on Palestine to the discussion. So most of 1:32:54.880 --> 1:32:58.720 the European borders are equipped with razor wire, and that 1:32:58.880 --> 1:33:02.840 is literally like knives wire, you know, like it is 1:33:02.880 --> 1:33:06.559 like it's razors. 1:33:04.640 --> 1:33:06.320 Its half razor blades. 1:33:07.120 --> 1:33:10.200 Yeah, and this is designed by the Israeli army and 1:33:10.240 --> 1:33:13.920 weapons industry, and the aim of this razor wire is 1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:17.559 to gut as deeply as possible into people's skin without 1:33:17.680 --> 1:33:20.880 causing pain, so people don't realize how realize how heavily 1:33:20.920 --> 1:33:24.080 wounded they are, in order to make them bleed as 1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:27.519 much as possible. This has been tested in Gaza, and 1:33:30.280 --> 1:33:33.799 Israeli army liked it, and now it's sold in Europe 1:33:33.920 --> 1:33:38.639 to sometimes stop the same people leaving fleeing Gaza trying 1:33:38.720 --> 1:33:42.439 to reach Europe. So the border in one hand is 1:33:42.920 --> 1:33:44.920 kind of useless, but at the same time, it is 1:33:44.960 --> 1:33:48.440 really built to be as cruel and as harmful as possible. 1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:50.400 And I know a lot of people with a lot 1:33:50.439 --> 1:33:54.680 of scars on their bodies just from those razor wires. 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:57.719 Yeah, I think if we want to draw that connection further, 1:33:57.960 --> 1:34:01.720 like Lbit Technologies has mass, multi tens of million dollar 1:34:01.800 --> 1:34:04.559 contracts for border surveillance where I live. Right, the same 1:34:04.760 --> 1:34:08.120 things that are surveiling people in Gaza are surveilling you 1:34:08.240 --> 1:34:11.200 if you go for a hike in East County, San Diego, 1:34:11.240 --> 1:34:12.759 they're also surveilling migrants. 1:34:12.840 --> 1:34:13.040 Right. 1:34:13.520 --> 1:34:18.240 The raser ware that you mentioned is everywhere out here. Right. 1:34:18.640 --> 1:34:21.520 It doesn't work, it gets cut eventually, it gets blankets 1:34:21.520 --> 1:34:24.120 thrown over it, But in the meantime, it hurts people 1:34:25.640 --> 1:34:30.200 the wall itself, right, there's also walls between Itsrael and Palestine, 1:34:30.600 --> 1:34:35.200 between Kurdistan and Turkey. What they, at least these larger 1:34:35.240 --> 1:34:39.320 ones do is is they force people. The US Wall 1:34:39.360 --> 1:34:42.200 is also one that's entirely breachable. I've seen people climbing it. 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:44.280 I've seen people climbing it this week. I've seen people 1:34:44.280 --> 1:34:47.240 go under it, I've seen people go through it, I've 1:34:47.280 --> 1:34:49.880 seen people go around it. But what it does tend 1:34:49.920 --> 1:34:51.920 to do is force people into the more remote areas 1:34:51.960 --> 1:34:55.120 where they didn't build wall, and those areas are where 1:34:55.120 --> 1:34:57.519 you're more likely to die. And every year that we've 1:34:57.560 --> 1:35:01.160 built more wall, we've seen more deaths. And as someone 1:35:01.200 --> 1:35:04.400 who engages in mutual aid, every year that they build 1:35:04.400 --> 1:35:06.840 more wall, we have to think about where will people go, 1:35:07.280 --> 1:35:09.439 how will they get there, what state will they be in, 1:35:10.160 --> 1:35:12.400 How can we make this journey less deadly, and that 1:35:12.479 --> 1:35:15.360 becomes harder and higher for us. You know, we did 1:35:15.400 --> 1:35:17.960 a water drop on Sunday. It took us five hours 1:35:18.000 --> 1:35:21.080 to hike a very small section of this trail that 1:35:21.120 --> 1:35:24.240 people hiked in order to surrender themselves, just as they 1:35:24.240 --> 1:35:26.800 would if they could come through important entry, but it's 1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:27.479 a lot more deadly. 1:35:27.600 --> 1:35:30.880 Yeah. I think that's kind of some sort of most 1:35:30.960 --> 1:35:35.160 migration policies or migration like obstacles to migration in Europe 1:35:35.200 --> 1:35:38.639 as well. They don't actually stop migrants, but they do 1:35:38.720 --> 1:35:42.520 hurt them, and they do push them into danger or actual. 1:35:42.800 --> 1:35:48.120 Deadly Yeah, because you're never going to stop it, but 1:35:49.439 --> 1:35:53.679 you can use like quote unquote deterrents in the holes 1:35:53.760 --> 1:35:55.719 that it will all slow down, but you're just going 1:35:55.760 --> 1:35:57.240 to get people hurt and killed. 1:35:57.800 --> 1:35:58.240 Yeah. 1:35:58.320 --> 1:36:04.080 Yeah, that is like how incredibly cinecle the border is. 1:36:04.120 --> 1:36:06.679 I think that the main desurance is the people dying, 1:36:07.200 --> 1:36:12.040 and that this is part of the political game to 1:36:12.080 --> 1:36:13.880 disencourage vibrants. 1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:17.760 Yeah, and then you can and then you can use 1:36:17.840 --> 1:36:22.320 other policies that we'll get to to present yourself as 1:36:22.320 --> 1:36:24.240 the good guy for wanting to make sure that people 1:36:24.320 --> 1:36:28.240 don't cross those walls or across the Mediterranean, and you 1:36:28.280 --> 1:36:30.400 can present yourself as the good guy trying to prevent 1:36:30.439 --> 1:36:35.000 those steps that your policies are causing. 1:36:35.200 --> 1:36:36.679 I think that's what we're going to end it for today. 1:36:36.840 --> 1:36:38.360 We plan for this to be a one part episode, 1:36:38.400 --> 1:36:40.960 but we really enjoyed talking and we had a learning comment, 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:43.360 so this is going to be a two parter. Tomorrow 1:36:43.400 --> 1:36:46.240 we will be back to discuss the EU's external border 1:36:46.280 --> 1:36:49.160 and how it has non EU countries enforcing its border 1:36:49.560 --> 1:36:53.280 in ways that are very detrimental, damaging, and deadly to migrants. 1:36:53.360 --> 1:36:55.000 So I hope you look forward to that and we'll 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:55.759 see you again tomorrow. 1:37:01.080 --> 1:37:01.160 Hi. 1:37:01.240 --> 1:37:03.800 Everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to read 1:37:03.840 --> 1:37:05.519 you this today. We're going to put it in our 1:37:05.560 --> 1:37:08.519 episode this week because it's a cause that's important to us, 1:37:08.840 --> 1:37:10.880 and so we thought it would be something that might 1:37:10.880 --> 1:37:13.000 be important to you too as well. On the tenth 1:37:13.040 --> 1:37:16.360 of June twenty twenty four, Lennard Peltier, an enrolled member 1:37:16.360 --> 1:37:19.120 of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of Lakota and Ajibwei 1:37:19.200 --> 1:37:22.639 ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner in the United States, 1:37:22.880 --> 1:37:25.479 will be appearing before the US Parole Commission for the 1:37:25.520 --> 1:37:28.840 first time since two thousand and nine. He faces staunch 1:37:28.880 --> 1:37:33.040 opposition from the FBI and other law enforcement agencies due 1:37:33.040 --> 1:37:36.160 to having allegedly killed two FBI agents in a firefight 1:37:36.320 --> 1:37:39.519 on the twenty sixth of June nineteen seventy five. After 1:37:39.560 --> 1:37:43.599 the agents appeared on reservation land to execute a pretextural warrant. 1:37:44.479 --> 1:37:47.759 The initial firefight occurred during the quote reign of terror 1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:50.200 on Pine Ridge in the wake of the occupation of 1:37:50.240 --> 1:37:53.320 Wounded Kney, a time of extreme violence when federal law 1:37:53.400 --> 1:37:56.960 enforcement installed a puppet tribal chair and was arming vigilantes 1:37:57.040 --> 1:38:01.519 who targeted Indigenous traditionalists. Everything leading up to these events, 1:38:01.640 --> 1:38:06.639 as well as subsequent investigation and mister Peltier's extradition, trial, conviction, 1:38:06.920 --> 1:38:10.320 and sentencing, were characterized by gross misconduct on the part 1:38:10.360 --> 1:38:15.080 of law enforcement, the prosecution, and the courts. Mister Peltier's 1:38:15.080 --> 1:38:17.800 co defendants were separately tried and acquitted on grounds of 1:38:17.840 --> 1:38:21.920 self defense. Mister Peltier was railroaded, and his case is 1:38:21.960 --> 1:38:25.280 tainted by discrimination at every level, ranging from the withholding 1:38:25.280 --> 1:38:28.400 of exculpatory evidence to the torture and coercion of extradition 1:38:28.439 --> 1:38:31.599 and trial witnesses, and from the refusal of the judge 1:38:31.600 --> 1:38:35.720 to dismiss and vowedly racist Dura to the apologetic gymnastics 1:38:35.760 --> 1:38:37.920 of the courts affirming his convictions in the face of 1:38:38.000 --> 1:38:42.360 meritorious legal challenges and admitted evidence of outrageous government misdeeds. 1:38:43.160 --> 1:38:45.960 Mister Peltier has been in prison for more than forty 1:38:46.000 --> 1:38:50.160 eight years and he's almost eighty years old. He suffers 1:38:50.160 --> 1:38:53.679 from chronic and potentially lethal conditions for which he receives 1:38:53.720 --> 1:38:57.720 insufficient and substandard medical care. If you want to take 1:38:57.760 --> 1:39:01.640 action to hashtag free Lennard Heltier, you can call the 1:39:01.720 --> 1:39:05.880 US Parole Commission at two zero two three four six 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:10.080 seven zero zero zero, And if you'd like to find 1:39:10.080 --> 1:39:12.000 more information on how to support, you can go to 1:39:12.040 --> 1:39:15.040 this u r L. It's h t T P colon 1:39:15.120 --> 1:39:20.720 slash slash n D N C O dot c c 1:39:21.600 --> 1:39:27.000 slash free Leonard Peltier. That's f R e E L 1:39:27.160 --> 1:39:30.840 e O n A R d P e L t 1:39:30.960 --> 1:39:33.519 I E R or you can follow n d N 1:39:33.560 --> 1:39:36.920 collective on social media for more ways to support him. 1:39:37.160 --> 1:39:40.120 More information on Leonard Peltier, listen to Margaret's podcast on 1:39:40.120 --> 1:39:42.560 the Lakota Nation, a read in the Spirit of the 1:39:42.640 --> 1:40:00.160 Crazy Horse by Peter Mathewson. Hi, we're back, and just 1:40:00.160 --> 1:40:02.599 to remind people, if you haven't listened to the episode yesterday, 1:40:02.880 --> 1:40:05.760 you probably won't pick up what's going on today, So 1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:08.800 I suggest starting there as we commence on our second 1:40:08.840 --> 1:40:11.680 part of the discussion about the EUS border. Today we're 1:40:11.720 --> 1:40:14.479 going to discuss the EU's external border and what that 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:19.240 means for migrants. We'll pick up with Mick and Rose 1:40:19.560 --> 1:40:21.599 and we'll start off more or less where we left 1:40:21.600 --> 1:40:25.000 off yesterday. Like you can map, and I'm not the 1:40:25.040 --> 1:40:27.240 first one to have made these maps, but you can 1:40:27.320 --> 1:40:29.880 look at humane borders in Arizona, and then you can 1:40:29.960 --> 1:40:33.080 look at EFF's map of fixed and mobile towers and 1:40:33.080 --> 1:40:36.080 you can see people. And again, this is something I'm 1:40:36.280 --> 1:40:38.599 more familiar with, and I'd like to be people dying 1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:42.400 in the shade of the surveillance towers, without help, without water, 1:40:42.560 --> 1:40:45.840 without the very minor things that it would take for 1:40:45.920 --> 1:40:49.360 them not to have died. And so yeah, this provides justification. 1:40:50.040 --> 1:40:52.960 It provides a massive outlet for the post War on 1:40:53.080 --> 1:40:58.000 Terror like military industrial complex to continue to make its money, 1:40:58.280 --> 1:41:01.920 and to continue to make its money through innocent people dying. 1:41:03.920 --> 1:41:07.880 Yeah, I think it was either a Polish Frontex or 1:41:08.880 --> 1:41:12.639 the Transnational Institute. I got some hands on some literature 1:41:12.640 --> 1:41:17.479 they were spreading, and there is a direct you can 1:41:17.560 --> 1:41:20.280 draw a direct line between like the end of the 1:41:20.320 --> 1:41:26.599 Cold War in the nineties, with military industrial complex having 1:41:26.640 --> 1:41:29.479 to fight new ways to sell their products to states. 1:41:29.960 --> 1:41:32.800 And that's also why the order keeps getting more and 1:41:32.840 --> 1:41:35.240 more militarized, because this is the one point where they 1:41:35.240 --> 1:41:38.439 can still sell a lot of things without their having 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:39.000 to be a war. 1:41:39.560 --> 1:41:39.760 Yeah. 1:41:40.240 --> 1:41:43.760 Yeah, there's like a very serious lobby of companies who 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:46.840 just want to make money out of making our borders deadly. 1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:48.880 And they're really successful. 1:41:48.880 --> 1:41:51.439 Actually yeah. I think they just want to make money 1:41:51.439 --> 1:41:53.559 and they don't care if they make up boarders deadly 1:41:53.880 --> 1:41:58.400 like they the end goal is always profit for them, 1:41:58.479 --> 1:42:01.360 right like, and everything else is consequent to that. 1:42:01.720 --> 1:42:04.880 Think of the stockholders, they have to live as well. 1:42:05.800 --> 1:42:11.400 What I personally find most troubling is this extension of 1:42:11.479 --> 1:42:16.240 the Iron border into non European countries. So the EU 1:42:16.400 --> 1:42:20.120 is making deals with countries in which for the in 1:42:20.200 --> 1:42:23.960 exchange for large sums of money that those countries are 1:42:24.000 --> 1:42:28.759 now containing or stopping migrants and refugees from ever leaving 1:42:28.920 --> 1:42:32.920 the Middle East Africa. Like Rose said earlier, the Turkey 1:42:32.960 --> 1:42:37.439 deal is essentially a political deal between the EU and 1:42:37.439 --> 1:42:41.320 Turkey for Turkey to hold a portion of Syrian refugees 1:42:41.760 --> 1:42:45.519 over within their border to stop them from coming into Europe. 1:42:45.800 --> 1:42:50.960 And I think we paid a few billion, more than 1:42:51.000 --> 1:42:54.320 a few billion probably for Turkey to do that. So 1:42:55.080 --> 1:42:59.080 the most prominent of these deals are, as i said, Turkey, 1:42:59.520 --> 1:43:04.040 but also Tunisia and Libya. We're essentially outsourcing the abuse 1:43:04.120 --> 1:43:07.800 and human rights violations to countries that are outside the 1:43:07.800 --> 1:43:11.000 scope of our media, who have regimes that we would 1:43:11.000 --> 1:43:15.200 declare dictatorships and autocracies. In the case of Libya, it's 1:43:15.240 --> 1:43:20.320 even like rebels and warlords being funded with EU taxpayer money. Today, 1:43:20.400 --> 1:43:23.000 the eupack with Libya has given rise to a full 1:43:23.000 --> 1:43:26.639 fledged slave market run by cold blooded human traffickers who, 1:43:27.080 --> 1:43:30.960 incentivized by the EU's crackdown on irregular migration and the 1:43:31.000 --> 1:43:35.000 resulting business downturn of would be profitable passengers, are now 1:43:35.040 --> 1:43:40.920 auctioning economic migrants and refugees as slaves. Yeah, we're just 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:44.559 doing slavery with extra steps now. So to make it 1:43:44.640 --> 1:43:48.479 inescapably clear how bad the situation is, I'm now going 1:43:48.520 --> 1:43:52.080 to quote from an Amnesty International article from twenty twenty one. 1:43:52.720 --> 1:43:58.200 Three Police Shadra al Zawia Center is a facility facility 1:43:58.320 --> 1:44:03.479 which was pretty obviously run by a non affiliated militia 1:44:04.160 --> 1:44:08.960 and was recently integrated under the DCIM and designated for 1:44:09.000 --> 1:44:13.920 people in vulnerable situations at DCIM is an acronym for 1:44:14.439 --> 1:44:19.800 Libya's Directorate for Combat in Illegal Migration. It's essentially a 1:44:19.840 --> 1:44:25.080 department of their Interior Ministry. Former detainees from that facility 1:44:25.720 --> 1:44:28.479 said that guards raped women and some were cohoersed into 1:44:28.520 --> 1:44:31.840 sex in exchange for their release or for essentials such 1:44:31.840 --> 1:44:36.320 as clean water grace. A pseudonym said she was heavily 1:44:36.360 --> 1:44:39.320 beaten for refusing to comply with such a demand. I 1:44:39.360 --> 1:44:41.639 told the guard no. He used the gun to knock 1:44:41.680 --> 1:44:44.760 me back. He used a letter soldier's shoe to kick 1:44:44.840 --> 1:44:48.560 me from my waist. Two young women at the facility 1:44:48.640 --> 1:44:51.599 attempted to commit suicide as a result of such abuse. 1:44:52.439 --> 1:44:55.280 Three women also said that two babies detained with their 1:44:55.320 --> 1:44:58.599 mothers after an attempted sea crossing had died in early 1:44:58.640 --> 1:45:01.920 twenty twenty one. Their guards refused to transfer them to 1:45:02.000 --> 1:45:05.479 a hospital for a critical medical treatment and it's The 1:45:05.520 --> 1:45:10.599 International report documents similar patterns of human rights violations, including 1:45:10.720 --> 1:45:15.880 severe beatings, sexual violence, extortion, forced labor, and in human 1:45:15.920 --> 1:45:21.240 conditions across seven DCIM centers in Libya. In Abuisa Center 1:45:21.360 --> 1:45:25.200 in the city of al Zaya, DTNES reported being deprived 1:45:25.280 --> 1:45:28.840 of nutritious food to the point of starvation end. 1:45:28.880 --> 1:45:29.160 Correct. 1:45:29.680 --> 1:45:35.519 Yeah, Libya is is just on a completely different level. 1:45:35.600 --> 1:45:39.840 Like we have we have systematic torture on almost all 1:45:39.960 --> 1:45:45.599 border crossings by European border guards, but Libya just manages 1:45:45.680 --> 1:45:54.040 to do worse than that, just systematically enslave rate, murder, torture. 1:45:54.960 --> 1:45:57.200 And I think it's important to stress that, Like there's 1:45:57.320 --> 1:45:59.880 this Libyan Coast Guard. They're funded by the European Union, 1:46:00.560 --> 1:46:04.120 so the opinion Union will go out with drones support 1:46:04.240 --> 1:46:08.720 the boat of migrants. Previously, the European Union actually had 1:46:08.800 --> 1:46:14.080 rescue ships, but the European Union, if a boat is 1:46:14.200 --> 1:46:16.879 near another boat in distress, there's an obligation to rescue, 1:46:17.080 --> 1:46:19.200 and after the rescue, you have to bring the people 1:46:19.280 --> 1:46:23.360 to a safe court. So having a boat at sea 1:46:24.120 --> 1:46:27.560 meant that the European Border Agency Front Tax was obliged 1:46:27.680 --> 1:46:30.720 to rescue people at sea, and so they just thought, 1:46:31.080 --> 1:46:33.000 let's just do away with the boats and let's just 1:46:33.080 --> 1:46:36.360 have helicopters and drones, so we can still spot boats 1:46:36.560 --> 1:46:40.960 that are sinking, but we cannot help them, and instead. 1:46:40.720 --> 1:46:42.519 They are obligated to anymore. 1:46:43.920 --> 1:46:46.599 Yeah, I mean they're physically. Yeah, exactly. They they they 1:46:46.680 --> 1:46:50.439 managed to escape that responsibility under maritime law, and then 1:46:50.720 --> 1:46:54.920 they paid the Libyan Coast Guard to rescue rescue people 1:46:55.880 --> 1:47:01.040 quote unquote, Libya is so bad that weally migrants just 1:47:01.280 --> 1:47:03.439 jump in the water if they see a Libyan coast 1:47:03.439 --> 1:47:06.000 guard because people prefer to drown them to be taken 1:47:06.040 --> 1:47:09.160 back to Libya. The Libyan coast Guard takes the people 1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:12.600 on the boat, brings them back to Libyan mainland, and 1:47:12.760 --> 1:47:17.160 actually sells them to the militias running the detention centers. 1:47:17.640 --> 1:47:22.120 So the Libyan Coast Guard gets paid twice for stopping migrants, 1:47:22.200 --> 1:47:25.480 first by the European Union and secondly by the militias 1:47:25.560 --> 1:47:29.400 that will later sell them as slates or use them 1:47:29.479 --> 1:47:33.519 for slavery. And this is what we have been funding 1:47:33.680 --> 1:47:37.720 for years, and there have been extensive documentation about these 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:41.519 human rights violations and the very direct link of the 1:47:41.560 --> 1:47:43.719 EU funding, and it just keeps going. 1:47:46.360 --> 1:47:49.080 I think it was a year or so back where 1:47:49.160 --> 1:47:53.640 I saw a video of someone, a woman on a 1:47:53.720 --> 1:47:58.800 dinghy who was just incredibly emotional. She was just exclaiming 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:01.720 all the time like I'd rather die than go back 1:48:01.800 --> 1:48:03.439 to Libya, which. 1:48:03.560 --> 1:48:06.640 Yeah, it's yeah, just literally what it is. 1:48:07.120 --> 1:48:12.519 Yeah, yeah, I would encourage that the listeners to just 1:48:12.760 --> 1:48:17.920 google something like Libya migrant detentions or something and look 1:48:17.960 --> 1:48:21.040 at the pictures because it's you might. 1:48:21.000 --> 1:48:24.320 Get like traumatized, but you will be more aware of 1:48:24.360 --> 1:48:25.280 the horrors in the world. 1:48:26.000 --> 1:48:26.200 Yeah. 1:48:26.520 --> 1:48:29.000 Yeah, that they're not great pictures to look at, but 1:48:29.680 --> 1:48:34.080 thank God for you good sleep. Like, yeah, I think 1:48:34.120 --> 1:48:37.479 it's important to see those things because that is the 1:48:37.560 --> 1:48:42.120 reality that we in Europe often do not get to see, 1:48:42.280 --> 1:48:45.559 and this is the reality that has been created by 1:48:45.640 --> 1:48:51.200 our overlords. So what the EU is doing is to 1:48:51.320 --> 1:48:55.759 be very blunt, extending its own borders into sovereign territory 1:48:55.920 --> 1:48:59.240 of states outside of Europe to stop migrants from even 1:48:59.400 --> 1:49:03.960 entering the EU. Proponents of these policies will undoubtedly argue 1:49:04.080 --> 1:49:07.000 that this saves lives by preventing people from crossing the 1:49:07.080 --> 1:49:12.280 Mediterranean in overcrowded boats and ginghis personally, I would argue 1:49:12.320 --> 1:49:15.439 that people will continue to make that crossing if only 1:49:15.560 --> 1:49:19.240 to escape the EU funded hellholes that these regimes create 1:49:19.760 --> 1:49:22.960 in order to get that sweet, sweet EU funding. What 1:49:23.200 --> 1:49:28.519 is definitely very concerning is that despite criticisms from NGOs 1:49:28.560 --> 1:49:32.880 such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch Europe will 1:49:33.040 --> 1:49:36.720 likely continue these practices. Only last year did it sign 1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:39.560 a deal with Tunisia with the attention of using that 1:49:39.800 --> 1:49:43.320 as a third country, as they call it, to prevent 1:49:43.439 --> 1:49:50.040 sea crossings. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen stated 1:49:50.120 --> 1:49:53.280 that this could be a blueprint for cooperation with other countries. 1:49:53.760 --> 1:49:56.360 To the surprise of no one, this will very likely 1:49:56.479 --> 1:50:00.320 increase the human rights violations and abusance that happen there. 1:50:01.040 --> 1:50:05.240 And after this, I have two examples of stories that 1:50:05.520 --> 1:50:09.280 that happens at the EU borders that are I think 1:50:09.800 --> 1:50:14.080 particularly the heartbreaking. And this was also the hardest part 1:50:14.400 --> 1:50:18.280 for me to write, because there are so many stories 1:50:18.320 --> 1:50:21.479 out there that I think deserve to be heard and 1:50:22.640 --> 1:50:27.479 deserve to have like some lights shone on there just 1:50:29.040 --> 1:50:31.720 to show people the reality. But that would be that 1:50:31.760 --> 1:50:33.839 would turn into a very very long episode. 1:50:34.720 --> 1:50:37.640 Yeah, can I can I quickly just I would like 1:50:37.720 --> 1:50:42.040 to say something about the these deals and I think 1:50:42.080 --> 1:50:46.840 there is something very ironic about the European Union pretending 1:50:46.920 --> 1:50:50.800 to value democracy and human rights and ladlah Well, I 1:50:50.880 --> 1:50:53.479 mean what you've just said makes it apondantly clear that 1:50:54.520 --> 1:50:57.240 human rights in Europe are just for Europeans and not 1:50:57.400 --> 1:51:00.000 for humans. But I would also just like to stretch 1:51:00.120 --> 1:51:05.000 that it's very strange and I think not maybe often 1:51:05.120 --> 1:51:08.080 enough address that what Europe is doing is it's just 1:51:08.200 --> 1:51:12.560 bribing countries. It is bribing countries to stop migrants. It 1:51:12.680 --> 1:51:16.280 is bribing countries to take unwanted migrants back through deportation. 1:51:17.240 --> 1:51:20.360 It is often also forced to take on its own citizens. 1:51:20.439 --> 1:51:24.120 So it's not only people from Sub Sahara Africa traveling 1:51:24.160 --> 1:51:27.120 through Libya, but it's also Libyan people themselves. So they 1:51:27.160 --> 1:51:30.920 have elected a government, they have an interest themselves as well, 1:51:31.000 --> 1:51:34.719 maybe in having the ability to move away from Libya, 1:51:35.479 --> 1:51:38.639 and the you needs to come up with enormous sums 1:51:38.640 --> 1:51:43.040 of money to force these governments to Yeah, why do 1:51:43.160 --> 1:51:45.280 they need that money, because that's not in the interest 1:51:45.320 --> 1:51:48.760 of the country or its citizens to do this. And 1:51:50.520 --> 1:51:53.960 especially in the Netherlands, there is this enormous Yeah, there's 1:51:54.000 --> 1:51:57.000 just this expectation that if we don't like something, other 1:51:57.080 --> 1:52:00.799 countries should do something about it. So in the Netherlands, 1:52:00.920 --> 1:52:06.599 Moroccan migrants specifically are filified a lot and and Algerian migrants, 1:52:06.880 --> 1:52:12.840 and both countries have not been very collaborative with deportations, 1:52:13.479 --> 1:52:18.000 but like, why the hell should they support the forced 1:52:18.760 --> 1:52:22.240 return of their own citizens who don't want to go 1:52:22.400 --> 1:52:27.360 back to their countries. Yeah, like there's no reason for 1:52:27.479 --> 1:52:30.519 them to do that, except if Europe is just abusing 1:52:30.600 --> 1:52:33.840 its power and forcing it these countries to do things 1:52:33.880 --> 1:52:37.800 that are yeah, not in their interest. I mean a 1:52:37.880 --> 1:52:40.640 lot of these border guards. I think Libya is an 1:52:40.680 --> 1:52:44.439 exception because they they actually make money out of the 1:52:44.560 --> 1:52:47.360 migrants in so many different ways. But if you look 1:52:47.400 --> 1:52:50.479 at Serbia or Bosnia, they are forced to control their borders, 1:52:50.920 --> 1:52:54.439 which is super expensive. And like, these are countries who 1:52:54.920 --> 1:52:59.360 have other issues to fix, Like, yeah, maybe they should 1:52:59.760 --> 1:53:02.280 make they want to focus on building up their country 1:53:02.439 --> 1:53:05.960 and improving living conditions, but instead the EU is just 1:53:06.040 --> 1:53:10.360 giving them money to yah to protect, to protect borders 1:53:10.400 --> 1:53:12.839 of people who aren't mainly just walking through their countries, 1:53:12.960 --> 1:53:16.800 Like that's not really a big problem for them. And yeah, 1:53:16.880 --> 1:53:20.040 it's very runic because Europe is like justifying its migration 1:53:20.160 --> 1:53:24.000 policies with this idea that every country has sovereignty over 1:53:24.080 --> 1:53:27.519 who it allows access. That's like legally, that's like the 1:53:27.600 --> 1:53:33.720 fundament of migration deterrence, but it only claims that right 1:53:33.800 --> 1:53:36.120 for itself. So if other countries say, well, I don't 1:53:36.160 --> 1:53:38.680 care if there is Serians walking through my country, like 1:53:38.760 --> 1:53:41.920 maybe they'll spend some money and they'll just leave anyway. Yeah, 1:53:42.400 --> 1:53:45.479 other countries don't have the right. I think Belarus is 1:53:45.520 --> 1:53:49.800 an interesting example as well, because Belarus welcomed migrants and 1:53:49.960 --> 1:53:53.240 then brought them to the new border with Poland and 1:53:53.320 --> 1:53:56.879 Lithuania mainly, and Belarus has every right to give freest 1:53:56.920 --> 1:53:57.400 to people. 1:53:57.920 --> 1:54:02.599 You know, it's actually like, just like the namelet says 1:54:02.640 --> 1:54:05.280 the rights to give frees out to people, battle US 1:54:05.320 --> 1:54:07.800 says that right too, and then of course people can 1:54:08.080 --> 1:54:10.760 also go to the border across the border if they 1:54:10.840 --> 1:54:12.000 want and ask for asylum. 1:54:12.479 --> 1:54:15.439 So yeah, I just wanted to highlight the irony of how. 1:54:15.520 --> 1:54:22.080 Incredibly one sided Europe is in how we can claim 1:54:22.400 --> 1:54:24.879 that we want to keep people out, but other countries 1:54:24.920 --> 1:54:27.960 are not allowed to have sovereign migration policies. 1:54:29.200 --> 1:54:31.479 Yeah, we see it exactly the same in the US, right, 1:54:31.560 --> 1:54:37.120 like we're trying to outsource processing of migrants to quatemoleson ondoors. 1:54:38.360 --> 1:54:41.840 We are trying to I mean, we pay Mexico massive 1:54:41.880 --> 1:54:45.040 some to Moody to enforce aborder. Right like we saw 1:54:45.560 --> 1:54:48.000 it's funny. There are three gaps outside of a combat 1:54:48.000 --> 1:54:49.720 that people who have listened to this podcast will be 1:54:49.800 --> 1:54:52.720 very familiar with my reporting on. And we saw those 1:54:52.800 --> 1:54:56.560 gaps closed down not when people started coming so much, 1:54:56.640 --> 1:55:02.400 but once once legacy media outlets showed up. Then by December, 1:55:02.840 --> 1:55:05.880 the US had a bilateral meeting with Mexico, and very 1:55:05.920 --> 1:55:09.960 soon thereafter, we saw Mexican National Guard sitting at those 1:55:10.000 --> 1:55:12.720 gaps in the border wall. The US is border like 1:55:12.880 --> 1:55:16.200 if people are leaving Mexico, it's not Mexico's problem. But 1:55:16.520 --> 1:55:20.040 we saw them with technicals and machine guns policing those 1:55:20.080 --> 1:55:23.480 gaps in the border. And the US gives a ton 1:55:23.560 --> 1:55:26.400 of money to countries to enforce its border right to 1:55:26.600 --> 1:55:31.880 prevent migration and get extremely The US has even taken 1:55:31.960 --> 1:55:37.600 actions to prosecute airlines that fly people north so that 1:55:37.680 --> 1:55:40.440 they can too. Yeah. Yeah, it's. 1:55:42.360 --> 1:55:45.440 Like insane, like half a million or something for like 1:55:45.560 --> 1:55:50.480 bringing one migrant without of these Yeah. Yeah, two is externalization, 1:55:50.840 --> 1:55:53.960 just as like bribing Libya to protect the border. It's 1:55:54.000 --> 1:56:00.320 also like actually forcing carriers, like forcing transport. Com needs 1:56:00.400 --> 1:56:01.520 to be the border guard. 1:56:02.240 --> 1:56:04.360 Yeah, to ascertain whether you have a visa or not. 1:56:05.520 --> 1:56:18.200 Decide if you have the right to travel. Let's pick 1:56:18.280 --> 1:56:19.920 up with those examples you make, because I think it 1:56:20.040 --> 1:56:23.600 is important for people to kind of have a human 1:56:23.720 --> 1:56:25.160 face or a human story. 1:56:25.760 --> 1:56:31.000 Well, to preface this, like migrants are under EU law, 1:56:31.120 --> 1:56:33.760 migrants are supposed to apply for aside in the first 1:56:33.840 --> 1:56:37.400 EU country that they enter. This policy is likely the 1:56:37.480 --> 1:56:41.560 result of fear from more affluent European countries that the 1:56:41.640 --> 1:56:46.200 majority of refugees will travel to those countries. This means 1:56:46.240 --> 1:56:49.400 that the countries geographically closest to Africa and the Middle 1:56:49.440 --> 1:56:52.880 East are the ones supposed to take in most refugees. 1:56:53.320 --> 1:56:57.640 Think of Spain, Greece, Italy, Bulgaria. They however, are not 1:56:57.720 --> 1:57:01.400 too afphusiastic at the prospect of taking in huge amounts 1:57:01.400 --> 1:57:01.920 of migrants. 1:57:03.040 --> 1:57:04.480 More are the migrants themselves. 1:57:04.640 --> 1:57:09.480 By the way, I can imagine that they're also a 1:57:09.520 --> 1:57:13.520 lot too keen to live in Bulgaria, especially after what 1:57:13.720 --> 1:57:19.400 follows next, because this story happened at Turkish Bulgarian border. 1:57:20.200 --> 1:57:25.440 But I also personally it's just incredibly cruel that like 1:57:25.680 --> 1:57:29.800 the Netherlands and Germany and the Scandinavian countries are like, 1:57:30.040 --> 1:57:33.040 oh no, you should take you should take all those refugees, 1:57:33.280 --> 1:57:35.120 like we don't want them here. 1:57:35.840 --> 1:57:38.440 And I would say that's like where the outsourcing starts, 1:57:38.680 --> 1:57:41.560 Like that's you law. We have shance, so we have 1:57:41.760 --> 1:57:44.640 like free travel within the u EU, but that comes 1:57:44.680 --> 1:57:49.080 with extremely violently guarding the outside of the EU. So 1:57:49.200 --> 1:57:52.120 if you are a border country, you are only welcome 1:57:52.120 --> 1:57:54.080 if you can prove to us that you are cruel 1:57:54.200 --> 1:57:57.960 enough to discourage people from crossing this border. Because again, 1:57:58.080 --> 1:58:01.560 like Bulgaria doesn't really have that much interest in guarding 1:58:01.640 --> 1:58:04.840 the borders if people can just if they any way 1:58:04.920 --> 1:58:09.400 want to go to Western European countries, right, so it's 1:58:09.440 --> 1:58:12.840 a way to again to I would say, the border 1:58:13.240 --> 1:58:16.600 externalization already starts from like the main countries of destination, 1:58:16.720 --> 1:58:21.280 which is like France and Germany, and even Bulgaria would 1:58:21.320 --> 1:58:24.560 not have much interest in stopping migrants if there were 1:58:24.640 --> 1:58:29.400 not all of these rules to make them responsible. 1:58:30.440 --> 1:58:33.040 Exactly. But again, which is why I said, like the 1:58:33.120 --> 1:58:38.560 more affluent countries within you don't want that for reasons 1:58:38.640 --> 1:58:41.480 that I think anyone can think of at this point 1:58:41.520 --> 1:58:44.240 of the story. Is where pushbacks come into play. This 1:58:44.400 --> 1:58:47.200 is a tactic used by the countries I just mentioned. 1:58:47.800 --> 1:58:50.800 It's a set of measures that force people back over 1:58:50.880 --> 1:58:55.839 the border they crossed, often immediately after it. This practice 1:58:55.920 --> 1:58:58.200 is often a force for violence and does not take 1:58:58.240 --> 1:59:01.480 into account the circumstances of nagrants and denies them the 1:59:01.560 --> 1:59:04.720 opportunity to apply for asylum. This means that the EU 1:59:04.840 --> 1:59:09.400 does pushback people that have very legitimate reasons to apply 1:59:09.560 --> 1:59:14.080 for asylum. Under the EU's own rules, I'm going to quote, 1:59:14.640 --> 1:59:19.120 pushbacks violate the prohibition of collective expulsion of asylum seekers 1:59:19.200 --> 1:59:22.920 in Protocol four of the European Convention on Human Rights 1:59:23.400 --> 1:59:28.880 and often violate the international law prohibiting on non refoulment. No, 1:59:30.400 --> 1:59:35.680 it's French, yeah, ah, okay, I was never good at French. 1:59:37.640 --> 1:59:37.960 All right. 1:59:40.400 --> 1:59:43.720 It's a fundamental principle of international law that forbids a 1:59:43.840 --> 1:59:47.440 country receiving asylum seekers from returning them to a country 1:59:47.840 --> 1:59:51.600 in which they would be improbable danger of persecution based 1:59:51.640 --> 1:59:55.800 on race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, 1:59:56.400 --> 2:00:00.560 or political opinion. That being said, I'm aware even like 2:00:00.720 --> 2:00:04.880 the Dutch government has sent like LGBTQI people back to 2:00:05.040 --> 2:00:09.720 countries where they could be like persecuted for that. So again, 2:00:10.680 --> 2:00:14.200 those rules seem to be very optional So what follows 2:00:14.280 --> 2:00:20.440 now is two examples of border practices that I think 2:00:20.480 --> 2:00:25.720 are particularly egregious. So on October third, twenty twenty two, 2:00:26.000 --> 2:00:30.840 Abdullah Mohammed, aged nineteen, a Syrian refugee, attempted to cross 2:00:31.040 --> 2:00:35.440 the Bulgarian Turkish border. After being pushed back by border guards, 2:00:35.720 --> 2:00:39.680 they threw stones at the border about emphasize here at 2:00:39.720 --> 2:00:43.480 the border itself, not at the guards. After this, a 2:00:43.560 --> 2:00:46.440 shot rang and Abdullah fell to the ground with a 2:00:47.200 --> 2:00:52.480 bullet lodged one centimeter away from his heart. He survived 2:00:52.720 --> 2:00:56.600 and was interviewed by Lighthouse Reports. He states that there 2:00:56.680 --> 2:00:59.920 wasn't intent to kill when he was shot. That's his belief. 2:01:00.800 --> 2:01:05.800 The bullet also pierced this hand, which is now partially paralyzed. 2:01:06.480 --> 2:01:10.080 There seems to be no justification or reason whatsoever for 2:01:10.240 --> 2:01:13.320 border guards to have shot, or to have shot with 2:01:13.480 --> 2:01:16.600 live ammunition. This was the first time that such an 2:01:16.640 --> 2:01:19.880 incident was called on video. If you want, you can 2:01:19.960 --> 2:01:23.600 find it linked on lice Lighthouse Reports attached to the 2:01:23.760 --> 2:01:28.920 article about this incident. The video is not as bad 2:01:28.960 --> 2:01:32.680 as you might think, but watch you at your own risk. 2:01:33.760 --> 2:01:37.760 As far as I'm aware, there have been similar rumors before, 2:01:38.240 --> 2:01:40.960 but this was the first instant that has entered like 2:01:41.160 --> 2:01:44.600 the public record, or the first time it was actually documented. 2:01:46.280 --> 2:01:48.800 Needless to say, no one should be shot for attempting 2:01:48.840 --> 2:01:51.960 to cross a border. I don't care about anyone's opinion 2:01:52.200 --> 2:01:55.040 or bad faith nuances. People have a right to apply 2:01:55.160 --> 2:01:58.240 for asylum, and as far as I'm concerned, this was 2:01:58.360 --> 2:02:01.120 a deliberate and calculated attempted murder. 2:02:01.920 --> 2:02:03.640 Yeah. I do think there have been quite a lot 2:02:03.680 --> 2:02:07.720 of videos of people being shot, and definitely people making 2:02:07.840 --> 2:02:11.640 statements about it and just having the actual bullet in 2:02:11.720 --> 2:02:15.040 their body to prove that it happened. Yeah, it happened 2:02:15.040 --> 2:02:18.480 in Croatia, it happened in Greece. Greece is a habit 2:02:18.520 --> 2:02:22.480 of shooting at boats as well and in that way 2:02:22.560 --> 2:02:27.400 making people drown. Yeah. And of course, apart from the shootings, 2:02:27.400 --> 2:02:29.640 which I would say on the European borders that they 2:02:29.640 --> 2:02:34.440 are still kind of rare. The yeah, the pushbacks and 2:02:34.920 --> 2:02:39.080 the violence and the torture is yeah, the evidence of 2:02:39.160 --> 2:02:44.440 that is like an enormous pile. There's when I was 2:02:44.480 --> 2:02:47.440 working in Bosnia, I think that was in twenty eighteen nineteen, 2:02:48.400 --> 2:02:52.400 there was no video footage of a pushback and there 2:02:52.480 --> 2:02:54.480 was a journalist who volunteered with us for a while 2:02:54.640 --> 2:02:58.360 and they were the first one to film it. But 2:02:58.680 --> 2:03:02.120 in the past years they're been like many many horrible 2:03:02.200 --> 2:03:08.400 videos of people being beaten up and actual torture. 2:03:10.080 --> 2:03:12.560 Yeah. Of course, in the US, under the pretense of 2:03:12.960 --> 2:03:16.440 protecting us all from the coronavirus, which still killed millions 2:03:16.480 --> 2:03:19.200 of people in this country, we have something called Title 2:03:19.240 --> 2:03:23.960 forty two, which allowed border patrol to quote unquote repatriate 2:03:24.240 --> 2:03:27.920 people to Mexico even if they weren't Mexican, and just 2:03:28.320 --> 2:03:32.400 drop them back in Mexico to include laterally transferring them, 2:03:32.840 --> 2:03:35.360 which is a pseudonym for kind of trafficking them halfway 2:03:35.360 --> 2:03:37.040 across the country and then dumping them in a place 2:03:37.080 --> 2:03:41.840 where they have no connections, no money, and no way 2:03:42.040 --> 2:03:47.200 of establishing themselves. Right, And this led to massively increased 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:50.880 a fatalities at the border because people were trying to 2:03:50.920 --> 2:03:53.680 avoid border patrol where they coming in and surrendering themselves 2:03:53.720 --> 2:03:58.280 for asylum as we see now, and massively increase encounters 2:03:58.360 --> 2:04:02.160 at the border. Encounters don't necessarily represent unique individuals, right, 2:04:02.280 --> 2:04:04.560 this is my I will beat this fucking drum until 2:04:04.560 --> 2:04:08.640 I die. But apparently our colleagues at New York Times 2:04:08.680 --> 2:04:13.200 haven't worked it out yet. Wall Street Journal, almost every NPR, 2:04:13.600 --> 2:04:17.000 every big outlet in the United States that likes to 2:04:17.040 --> 2:04:19.760 commission border reporters who don't live on the border will 2:04:19.800 --> 2:04:22.160 tell you that that, like the number of migrants went up. 2:04:22.840 --> 2:04:25.880 An encounter is an encounter. If someone crosses and then 2:04:25.920 --> 2:04:28.160 gets bounced into Mexico and then crosses again and does 2:04:28.240 --> 2:04:30.720 that five times, that's five encounters. It's the same person. 2:04:31.880 --> 2:04:35.800 BP doesn't doesn't keep records of unique individuals under Title 2:04:35.840 --> 2:04:37.800 forty two, or didn't keep under Title forty two. We 2:04:37.840 --> 2:04:40.080 don't know how many people, but we know that more 2:04:40.120 --> 2:04:42.160 people tried to cross, and we also know that every 2:04:42.200 --> 2:04:45.280 time you try to cross, you risk your life, and 2:04:45.360 --> 2:04:47.240 so we certainly know that more lives will put in 2:04:47.360 --> 2:04:50.280 danger because of this policy, because again, like turning someone 2:04:50.360 --> 2:04:52.760 back is not going to stop them, especially when you're 2:04:52.800 --> 2:04:54.560 dropping them in a country where they don't want to 2:04:54.640 --> 2:04:57.120 be and where they're not from. Like, the people aren't 2:04:57.160 --> 2:05:00.200 just going to be like, oh, okay, cool, I'll stay 2:05:00.240 --> 2:05:03.440 in Mexico like that. That has not historically been the case. 2:05:04.960 --> 2:05:07.600 Yeah, we had exactly the same kind of juggling with numbers. 2:05:08.360 --> 2:05:11.400 I remember people in Bosnia, some of them would get 2:05:11.440 --> 2:05:15.640 pushed back like forty or fifty times, and so they 2:05:15.720 --> 2:05:19.680 would be counted as individuals stops. Yes, indeed, so it 2:05:19.720 --> 2:05:22.120 would sound as if there was like, I don't know, 2:05:22.280 --> 2:05:24.720 tens of thousands, and I was like, it's really not 2:05:24.840 --> 2:05:29.480 that many, though, Yeah. Yeah, literally count the same person 2:05:29.520 --> 2:05:30.480 again and again and again. 2:05:31.160 --> 2:05:31.360 Yeah. 2:05:31.720 --> 2:05:34.600 And also I would like to say that like, yes, 2:05:34.680 --> 2:05:37.120 it is a border like the EO border countries, but 2:05:37.240 --> 2:05:41.160 it is also much deeper into the territory. So we 2:05:41.400 --> 2:05:46.880 externalize the border towards like Libya and Niger and way 2:05:46.960 --> 2:05:50.000 further even, but we also internalized the border, so we 2:05:50.160 --> 2:05:52.040 would find we would have people who had made it 2:05:52.080 --> 2:05:57.080 to Austria or Italy. They would get caught in Austria Italy, 2:05:57.240 --> 2:06:00.720 be pushed back to Slovenia, taken over by Slownia police, 2:06:00.880 --> 2:06:03.520 brought to the Croatian border, taken off by Creation police 2:06:03.720 --> 2:06:07.000 often in Croatia, get tortured and then be dumped on 2:06:07.080 --> 2:06:09.520 the Boston border, which would be the EU border as well. 2:06:10.200 --> 2:06:15.800 So that's what they call chain pushbacks. And yeah, I yeah, 2:06:15.840 --> 2:06:18.560 so I worked in the Boston Hetzegovina, which is none you, 2:06:19.760 --> 2:06:21.960 so we would get the people after they had been 2:06:22.480 --> 2:06:28.160 pushed back. Yeah. The things that people have done, like 2:06:28.560 --> 2:06:32.280 water guards have done to migrants are yeah, I don't 2:06:32.320 --> 2:06:34.760 know if you actually want to use this footage, right, 2:06:34.840 --> 2:06:39.160 It's like it's really really gruesome. Like in Bosnia, they 2:06:39.200 --> 2:06:42.760 would they would be like snow form, like they have 2:06:42.960 --> 2:06:45.880 very long and very cold winters. They would take away 2:06:45.880 --> 2:06:48.400 people's shoes and socks and like make them walk for 2:06:48.480 --> 2:06:50.960 five hours on bare feet. So one of the main 2:06:51.200 --> 2:06:55.920 tasks of our volunteers or medical volunteers was amputating toes. 2:06:57.120 --> 2:07:01.400 People would Yeah, people would come back with broken bones, 2:07:01.560 --> 2:07:06.480 broken skulls. People would be sent back with just their underwear. 2:07:06.800 --> 2:07:08.879 That minus twenty degrees celsius. 2:07:08.920 --> 2:07:10.600 I don't know how much that is in the US, 2:07:11.280 --> 2:07:14.600 neither do way. It's I think they come together around 2:07:14.640 --> 2:07:17.480 minus twenty. It's extremely the cultret. 2:07:17.160 --> 2:07:18.120 Gets the more accurate. 2:07:18.280 --> 2:07:18.480 Yeah. 2:07:18.880 --> 2:07:21.240 So like at some point we start to call this 2:07:21.400 --> 2:07:26.000 could torture as a kind of specific yeah, tactic that 2:07:26.520 --> 2:07:28.600 mainly the Croatian border guards were using. 2:07:29.520 --> 2:07:29.760 Yeah. 2:07:29.960 --> 2:07:37.240 Also, yeah, and I also want to stress again that yes, 2:07:37.320 --> 2:07:40.000 it is the European border countries in the East and 2:07:40.080 --> 2:07:43.480 in the west and in the south. But when I 2:07:43.640 --> 2:07:45.800 was working in Bosnia, Croatia was not yet part of 2:07:45.880 --> 2:07:51.600 the Shanan Zone, and like politicians were pretty explicit about 2:07:52.080 --> 2:07:55.760 Croatia can only enter if they have solved their border problem, 2:07:56.440 --> 2:07:59.480 even though there was constantly proof of torture coming out. 2:08:00.120 --> 2:08:04.480 The same happened with Bulgaria and Romania. So these countries 2:08:04.560 --> 2:08:09.040 were very very much pressured by countries like the Netherlands 2:08:09.160 --> 2:08:12.320 and Germany, who like you know, pretend not to have 2:08:12.480 --> 2:08:16.400 anything to do with these atrocities, but who were very 2:08:16.640 --> 2:08:19.720 very explicitly saying if you are not, if you don't 2:08:19.760 --> 2:08:25.000 get your borders in control, you cannot join the economic Yeah, 2:08:25.600 --> 2:08:27.920 you cannot have the open borders within the U. 2:08:28.840 --> 2:08:32.520 Yeah, it's so sad to see all these serenities. This 2:08:32.680 --> 2:08:35.840 is very depressing. My friends and I were helping someone 2:08:35.880 --> 2:08:38.680 who had it, like the early onset of like like 2:08:38.800 --> 2:08:40.960 trench foot, Yeah, a couple of weeks ago. 2:08:41.400 --> 2:08:41.600 Yeah. 2:08:42.000 --> 2:08:44.160 Yeah, we don't do it, like I guess as a 2:08:44.200 --> 2:08:48.080 policy as much as just by default. But in the 2:08:48.200 --> 2:08:50.880 mountains and then desert here in California when it rains, 2:08:51.560 --> 2:08:53.440 areas that are drive the rest of the year, turning 2:08:53.480 --> 2:08:55.600 to rivers and migrants have to cross. And we've also 2:08:55.680 --> 2:08:58.600 seen a large number of migrants drown this year in 2:08:58.720 --> 2:09:02.480 San Diego, and I more will have drowned if very 2:09:02.600 --> 2:09:05.480 brave people hadn't risk their own lives rescuing them. Not 2:09:05.680 --> 2:09:08.720 people who were working for the government, just individuals who cared. 2:09:09.400 --> 2:09:14.040 We've also seen a young man from Jamaica recently passed away. 2:09:14.800 --> 2:09:18.800 This was in early probably early for some February and March. 2:09:18.840 --> 2:09:22.240 From February March. He was on a migrant trail. I 2:09:22.360 --> 2:09:27.640 know exactly where, about a few hundred yards actually from 2:09:27.680 --> 2:09:34.280 where my friends have left warm clothes, hand warmers, jackets, food, water, 2:09:34.760 --> 2:09:37.000 But he wasn't able to make it that far and 2:09:37.680 --> 2:09:40.360 for whatever reason, you know, like one death of a 2:09:40.440 --> 2:09:43.200 tragedy and a million statistic or whatever. But that really 2:09:43.240 --> 2:09:45.080 impacted me. He was actually on the other side of 2:09:45.120 --> 2:09:46.760 the border when he died, but like he could have 2:09:46.800 --> 2:09:49.680 thrown a stone into the US and it's not a 2:09:49.800 --> 2:09:52.960 fence to border there. But yet we have chosen a 2:09:53.040 --> 2:09:56.400 policy which made that young man die of hypothermia by 2:09:56.480 --> 2:10:01.360 himself on the side of a mountain because for some reason, 2:10:01.640 --> 2:10:05.120 that's what we've decided or our government has decided it's 2:10:05.160 --> 2:10:07.040 better than having him come here and be able to 2:10:07.400 --> 2:10:09.640 make his case and live with us and get a 2:10:09.760 --> 2:10:12.760 job or what have you. And yeah, that was just 2:10:12.840 --> 2:10:15.360 a particularly heartbreaking one for me because I knew that, 2:10:15.640 --> 2:10:19.880 like he was five minutes walk away, ten minutes walk 2:10:19.920 --> 2:10:25.080 away from potentially being okay, And like that that's why 2:10:25.640 --> 2:10:27.280 my friends and I like to go out and leave 2:10:27.280 --> 2:10:31.440 stuff for people. But it shouldn't be a group of 2:10:32.000 --> 2:10:36.680 anarchists and migrant activists and people of faith like hiking 2:10:36.760 --> 2:10:39.440 into the desert every weekend with backpacks full of water 2:10:39.560 --> 2:10:43.280 and food and warm clothes. That shouldn't be what prevents 2:10:43.320 --> 2:10:44.640 people from dying coming here. 2:10:45.320 --> 2:10:47.840 Yeah, there's a kind of cruelty in that, even like 2:10:48.800 --> 2:10:52.280 it is amazing to help people to be part of 2:10:52.720 --> 2:10:56.000 a group of people who commit themselves to yeah, to 2:10:56.120 --> 2:10:59.520 resist these incredibly violent borders and to support people who 2:10:59.600 --> 2:11:02.960 decide to across them. But at the same time, it 2:11:03.120 --> 2:11:08.600 is just so problematic that someone's life, like access to 2:11:08.720 --> 2:11:11.280 food or healthcare, depends on whether or not there are 2:11:11.360 --> 2:11:16.280 some crazy volunteers willing to do that. So like it 2:11:16.320 --> 2:11:20.840 shouldn't be like our you know, are like, yeah, like 2:11:20.960 --> 2:11:23.240 I don't want to have that power over someone's life, 2:11:23.320 --> 2:11:25.200 and I think no one should have that power over 2:11:25.280 --> 2:11:30.120 someone's life. But this system where basically migrants' lives are disposable, 2:11:31.200 --> 2:11:35.720 also mean that it's like optional to offer super basic 2:11:35.840 --> 2:11:37.640 things that can save these lives. 2:11:38.520 --> 2:11:39.920 Yeah, yeah, very much, sir. 2:11:41.240 --> 2:11:43.560 Are you ready for the second depressing story? 2:11:43.840 --> 2:11:45.560 Yeah, let's let's get the second to break. 2:11:46.120 --> 2:11:47.280 Let's hit rock bottom. 2:11:47.760 --> 2:11:48.600 Yeah yeah, yeah. 2:11:50.080 --> 2:11:54.040 So I'm sure you've you've heard this story before, but 2:11:54.240 --> 2:11:58.400 still I think it's very much worth repeating. So on 2:11:58.560 --> 2:12:03.200 June fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the Adriana, a ship on 2:12:03.320 --> 2:12:09.000 its way degrees, capsized and subsequently sank. The boat allegedly 2:12:09.080 --> 2:12:12.680 had the capacity for about four hundred people, but carried 2:12:12.720 --> 2:12:16.720 around seven hundred and fifty. Of all those lives, one 2:12:16.800 --> 2:12:21.560 hundred and four were saved, eight two were confirmed deaths, 2:12:21.960 --> 2:12:26.560 and up to four five hundreds are missing and presumed death, 2:12:27.280 --> 2:12:30.760 the majority of which are women and children. I'll refer 2:12:30.880 --> 2:12:33.640 back to the Lighthouse Reports, who did a reconstruction of 2:12:33.720 --> 2:12:38.600 the incident which makes this even worse than it already is. 2:12:39.520 --> 2:12:43.960 Transcriptions and witness statements obtained by Lighthouse Reports, the Oshpiego 2:12:44.520 --> 2:12:53.520 Monitors iiraj Lpos report is United and the Times strongly 2:12:53.600 --> 2:12:56.160 suggests that the Greek coast Guard attempted to conceal their 2:12:56.200 --> 2:12:59.680 own involvement in this stragedy. Nine survivors were asked to 2:12:59.720 --> 2:13:03.280 make statements, none of which appeared to blame the coast guard. 2:13:04.360 --> 2:13:08.360 Different suggestions were given for the capsizing, blaming it on 2:13:08.440 --> 2:13:11.120 the edge of the ship or the lack of life jackets. 2:13:12.400 --> 2:13:16.880 Four of these statements contained near identical phrasing. It was 2:13:17.000 --> 2:13:19.920 later discovered that one of the translators was a coast 2:13:19.920 --> 2:13:24.400 guard himself. There were other translators, all of which were 2:13:24.760 --> 2:13:29.120 sworn in on that very day later in Greek courts. 2:13:29.400 --> 2:13:32.400 Six of those nine stated that the coast guard did 2:13:32.560 --> 2:13:35.640 in fact tow the boat before it went down. Two 2:13:35.720 --> 2:13:39.280 survivors tot Lighthouse reports that certain parts of their testimony 2:13:39.400 --> 2:13:43.120 was omitted in the transcription. To clarify that a bit 2:13:43.960 --> 2:13:47.160 because of what I said earlier that migrants have are 2:13:47.240 --> 2:13:50.880 obligated to apply for asylum in the country in which 2:13:50.920 --> 2:13:55.400 they arrive. It's become a habit of like coast Guard 2:13:55.600 --> 2:14:01.400 and frontect to attrag them to certain areas of of 2:14:01.560 --> 2:14:05.280 water that are part of for example, Italy or Greece. 2:14:07.040 --> 2:14:11.520 This particular one boat may have been an attempt to 2:14:11.600 --> 2:14:15.320 drag the boat to Italian waters so the Greeks didn't 2:14:15.360 --> 2:14:19.800 have to take them in. So, to quote the report 2:14:19.920 --> 2:14:24.640 from Lighthouse sixteen out of the seventeen survivors we spoke 2:14:24.680 --> 2:14:26.960 to set the coast guard attached the rope to the 2:14:27.080 --> 2:14:30.320 vessel and tried to tow it shortly before it capsized. 2:14:30.960 --> 2:14:33.520 Four also claimed that the coast guard was attempting to 2:14:33.600 --> 2:14:36.920 tow the boat to Italian waters, while four reported that 2:14:37.000 --> 2:14:40.560 the coast guard caused more depths by circling around the 2:14:40.640 --> 2:14:44.040 boat after it capsized, making waves that caused the boat's 2:14:44.080 --> 2:14:48.839 carcass to sink. End quote not great badtime stories. 2:14:49.480 --> 2:14:52.200 If you ask me, yeah, things. 2:14:55.600 --> 2:14:59.320 There there's just no words like yeah, I. 2:14:59.640 --> 2:15:03.040 Think this like I don't think anyone should be okay 2:15:03.160 --> 2:15:16.960 with it. Perhaps I think we're going to talk again 2:15:17.200 --> 2:15:19.760 about how people can oppose this, and how people can 2:15:19.840 --> 2:15:24.200 try their best to to a change the system and 2:15:24.320 --> 2:15:27.200 be do what they can, you know, while we're stuck 2:15:27.240 --> 2:15:30.200 in this terrible place to make things more survivable and 2:15:30.320 --> 2:15:33.560 less cruel. So perhaps we can finish up here with 2:15:33.720 --> 2:15:36.480 you guys, plugging anything you want to. If there are 2:15:36.640 --> 2:15:38.960 orgs or social media where people can follow both of 2:15:39.080 --> 2:15:42.080 your work, then I'd love to hear about them. 2:15:43.360 --> 2:15:47.880 Yeah, you can follow us on migrates. That's the end. 2:15:48.000 --> 2:15:52.600 I think it's like for English and migrator is I 2:15:52.800 --> 2:15:57.360 G R E A C. Yeah, the system is super fucked. 2:16:00.120 --> 2:16:01.240 Are SIP super fucked? 2:16:01.400 --> 2:16:01.680 It is? 2:16:02.520 --> 2:16:07.480 Yeah, it's really treating human beings as disposable and human 2:16:07.640 --> 2:16:11.920 a monment. Life has absolutely no value. But I also 2:16:12.000 --> 2:16:14.080 just wanted to say that I think a lot of 2:16:14.240 --> 2:16:16.840 migrants who cross borders they are aware of the risks. 2:16:17.640 --> 2:16:20.200 But I think it's also important to say that it 2:16:20.320 --> 2:16:22.720 isn't it's a kind of resistance. It is a kind 2:16:22.760 --> 2:16:28.200 of We started that episode with talking about passport privilege 2:16:28.440 --> 2:16:33.840 and the lottery of birth, and I think we should 2:16:33.879 --> 2:16:36.400 not only look at like the bad border guards and 2:16:36.480 --> 2:16:38.800 the good people helping or something, but I think we 2:16:38.840 --> 2:16:41.480 should also acknowledge that the people crossing the borders are 2:16:42.760 --> 2:16:47.000 doing like taking unbelievable risk, often also to help their 2:16:47.080 --> 2:16:50.720 families or their friends. Yeah, and I think crossing a 2:16:50.800 --> 2:16:55.400 border without permission is a kind of resistance. And I 2:16:55.560 --> 2:17:00.520 think we as people who yeah, do direct support or 2:17:00.600 --> 2:17:03.960 direct aid. We are I mean for me, it's also 2:17:04.040 --> 2:17:07.240 part of the resistance, is like helping people cross the border. 2:17:07.879 --> 2:17:11.199 I don't mind if yeah, people that want to accuse 2:17:11.280 --> 2:17:13.600 me of being a smaller or something, or like aiding 2:17:13.879 --> 2:17:16.240 illegal border crossings. Like the whole point is that people 2:17:16.240 --> 2:17:17.640 should be able to cross that border. 2:17:18.520 --> 2:17:18.760 Yeah. 2:17:19.320 --> 2:17:21.680 Yeah, I think that's a really good Someone recently accused 2:17:21.760 --> 2:17:24.560 us of in Cucumber that said that people people come 2:17:24.640 --> 2:17:27.760 to a cumber because we feed them, and like it's 2:17:27.920 --> 2:17:31.680 fucking ludicrous, Like you didn't fucking come from a guinea 2:17:32.200 --> 2:17:35.320 because I'm going to give you a peanut butter sandwich on. 2:17:35.440 --> 2:17:37.760 Some breadt like the best food. 2:17:37.959 --> 2:17:39.560 Yeah yeah, yeah, like it is. 2:17:39.920 --> 2:17:41.280 It is not the best. 2:17:42.200 --> 2:17:44.400 It's the best we can do, like you know, less 2:17:44.440 --> 2:17:47.280 than an other person or what have you. But like no, 2:17:47.560 --> 2:17:49.440 like but I guess. But I am doing it because 2:17:49.440 --> 2:17:52.120 I believe that person should be able to and not 2:17:52.959 --> 2:17:55.480 just because they're in those dire circumstances, but because I 2:17:55.879 --> 2:17:58.560 fundamentally support they're right, Like I want them to be 2:17:58.680 --> 2:18:02.480 my neighbor. Yeah, I'm okay with that, and that's why 2:18:02.480 --> 2:18:02.960 I'm doing it. 2:18:04.280 --> 2:18:05.360 Yeah, absolutely, I. 2:18:06.879 --> 2:18:09.360 Think we should all keep in mind how many of 2:18:09.480 --> 2:18:16.040 our friends, family, or other loved ones have moved at 2:18:16.120 --> 2:18:19.679 some point in their lives for a job or opportunities 2:18:19.959 --> 2:18:24.320 or love or whatever. That the essence of like human 2:18:24.400 --> 2:18:26.720 movement is the same, right right there? 2:18:26.840 --> 2:18:31.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it is our politicians who choose 2:18:31.160 --> 2:18:33.760 that this movement is a problem, that the movement of 2:18:33.840 --> 2:18:39.240 these people specifically is a threat or danger. Whereas I think, like, yeah, 2:18:39.680 --> 2:18:43.240 if you talk about like racism or systemic racism, the questions, 2:18:43.240 --> 2:18:44.880 I was like, yeah, but what is the system? Then? 2:18:45.320 --> 2:18:49.640 This is the system, the visa policies, the actual border. 2:18:50.120 --> 2:18:52.840 This is what is keeping people like is trying to 2:18:52.959 --> 2:18:56.840 keep people in exploitable conditions in the global South, is 2:18:57.480 --> 2:19:02.080 doing incredible cruelties to them just for political gain. Is 2:19:02.200 --> 2:19:04.920 exploiting people who do make it, but who are undocumented 2:19:05.160 --> 2:19:09.080 or on fragile residence status and are still exploited and 2:19:09.800 --> 2:19:12.800 deprived of basic rights even if they do arrive to 2:19:12.879 --> 2:19:16.880 their country of destination. Like this system is designed to 2:19:17.040 --> 2:19:20.840 create an underclass of people that is easily exploitable. There 2:19:20.879 --> 2:19:23.879 are companies who are profiting from this. There is absolutely 2:19:23.920 --> 2:19:27.040 no intention to stop migration, but there is definitely an 2:19:27.120 --> 2:19:34.520 intention to marginalize and segregate migrants and yeah, and just 2:19:35.280 --> 2:19:35.960 profit of it. 2:19:36.920 --> 2:19:37.120 Yeah. 2:19:38.440 --> 2:19:42.680 And meanwhile, we do the absolute bare minimum to provide 2:19:42.720 --> 2:19:46.160 aids to those countries to make the living conditions there better. 2:19:47.000 --> 2:19:50.280 Yeah, these borders are playing a role and keeping people 2:19:50.360 --> 2:19:53.360 exploitable there and making it possible to make them work 2:19:53.440 --> 2:19:58.440 for incredibly low wages and horrible labor conditions. Like these 2:19:58.480 --> 2:20:01.720 borders are forcing them into the in the those conditions. 2:20:03.440 --> 2:20:08.960 I think the mandatory international Development aid that countries should 2:20:09.000 --> 2:20:13.960 pay is like zero points zero zero seven percent or 2:20:14.000 --> 2:20:17.600 something of the GDP, and the majority of like Western 2:20:17.680 --> 2:20:23.880 countries are not doing that even that. So it's very 2:20:23.959 --> 2:20:27.320 much like the problem is that they're coming here, not 2:20:27.440 --> 2:20:30.320 that the conditions there are ship and war keeping them shits. 2:20:31.400 --> 2:20:34.840 Yeah great, I'm a bit bumped now. 2:20:35.760 --> 2:20:35.960 Yeah. 2:20:36.320 --> 2:20:38.240 Sorry, we've left you all saide. We will come back 2:20:38.320 --> 2:20:41.520 with Rose again and make to talk about ways to 2:20:41.560 --> 2:20:43.280 make it better. Is there anything you wanted to plug, 2:20:43.360 --> 2:20:46.560 make anything you want people to give the time money 2:20:46.640 --> 2:20:47.680 to follow on the internet. 2:20:49.000 --> 2:20:51.440 I just want to give a shout out to like 2:20:51.640 --> 2:20:57.400 organizations such as migrates, but also the abolished Frontext campaign 2:20:58.040 --> 2:21:02.000 and United Against refugee DEFs, and it would urge anyone 2:21:02.120 --> 2:21:08.200 to who feels compassionate to help out. There are so 2:21:08.280 --> 2:21:10.840 many ways you can help out, even if you don't 2:21:10.879 --> 2:21:15.720 know it yet, it is sorely needed. Like wherever you are, 2:21:16.879 --> 2:21:18.520 whoever you are, you can help out. 2:21:24.040 --> 2:21:24.120 Hi. 2:21:24.160 --> 2:21:26.760 Everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to read 2:21:26.800 --> 2:21:28.480 you this today. We're going to put it in our 2:21:28.520 --> 2:21:31.400 episode this week because it's a cause that's important to us, 2:21:31.800 --> 2:21:33.800 and so we thought it would be something that might 2:21:33.840 --> 2:21:35.960 be important to you too as well. On the tenth 2:21:36.000 --> 2:21:39.320 of June twenty twenty four, Leonard Peltier, an enrolled member 2:21:39.320 --> 2:21:42.080 of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of Lakota and Ajibwei 2:21:42.160 --> 2:21:45.520 Ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner in the United States, 2:21:45.879 --> 2:21:48.400 will be appearing before the US Parole Commission for the 2:21:48.480 --> 2:21:51.800 first time since two thousand and nine. He faces staunch 2:21:51.800 --> 2:21:55.959 opposition from the FBI and other law enforcement agencies due 2:21:56.000 --> 2:21:59.080 to having allegedly killed two FBI agents in a firefight 2:21:59.280 --> 2:22:02.440 on the twenty six of June nineteen seventy five, after 2:22:02.520 --> 2:22:06.520 the agents appeared on reservation land to execute a pretextural warrant. 2:22:07.440 --> 2:22:10.640 The initial firefight occurred during the quote reign of terror 2:22:10.840 --> 2:22:13.160 on Pine Ridge in the wake of the occupation of 2:22:13.200 --> 2:22:16.240 Wounded Kney, a time of extreme violence when federal law 2:22:16.360 --> 2:22:19.920 enforcement installed a puppet tribal chair and was arming vigilantes 2:22:20.000 --> 2:22:24.440 who targeted Indigenous traditionalists. Every since leading up to these events, 2:22:24.600 --> 2:22:29.560 as well as subsequent investigation and mister Peltier's extradition, trial, conviction, 2:22:29.879 --> 2:22:33.280 and sentencing, were characterized by gross misconduct on the part 2:22:33.320 --> 2:22:38.040 of law enforcement, the prosecution, and the courts. Mister Peltier's 2:22:38.040 --> 2:22:40.760 co defendants were separately tried and acquitted on grounds of 2:22:40.800 --> 2:22:44.840 self defense. Mister Peltier was railroaded, and his case is 2:22:44.920 --> 2:22:48.200 tainted by discrimination at every level, ranging from the withholding 2:22:48.240 --> 2:22:51.320 of exculpatory evidence to the torture and coercion of extradition 2:22:51.400 --> 2:22:54.560 and trial witnesses, and from the refusal of the judge 2:22:54.560 --> 2:22:58.640 to dismiss and vowedly racist Dura to the apologetic gymnastics 2:22:58.720 --> 2:23:00.880 of the courts affirming his convin in the face of 2:23:00.959 --> 2:23:05.280 meritorious legal challenges at admitted evidence about rageous government misdeeds. 2:23:06.120 --> 2:23:08.920 Mister Peltier has been in prison for more than forty 2:23:08.959 --> 2:23:13.119 eight years, and he's almost eighty years old. He suffers 2:23:13.120 --> 2:23:16.600 from chronic and potentially lethal conditions for which he receives 2:23:16.680 --> 2:23:20.680 insufficient and substandard medical care. If you want to take 2:23:20.720 --> 2:23:24.560 action to hashtag free Lenard Peltier, you can call the 2:23:24.680 --> 2:23:28.800 US Parole Commission at two zero two three four six 2:23:29.400 --> 2:23:33.000 seven zero zero zero, And if you'd like to find 2:23:33.040 --> 2:23:34.920 more information on how to support, you can go to 2:23:35.000 --> 2:23:38.400 this r L it's h t t P colon slash 2:23:38.440 --> 2:23:45.640 slash n d n C dot c C slash free 2:23:46.360 --> 2:23:50.880 Leonard Peltier. That's fr e E L e O n 2:23:51.040 --> 2:23:54.560 A R d P E L t I E R, 2:23:55.160 --> 2:23:57.480 or you can follow n d N collective on social 2:23:57.560 --> 2:24:00.760 media for more ways to support him. More information on 2:24:00.840 --> 2:24:03.879 Daniel Peltier. Listen to Margaret's podcast on the Lakota Nation. 2:24:04.520 --> 2:24:06.640 I read in the Spirit of the Crazy Horse by 2:24:06.720 --> 2:24:07.600 Peter Matthewson. 2:24:21.560 --> 2:24:25.400 Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about 2:24:25.560 --> 2:24:28.680 things falling apart, and today, the thing that's fallen apart 2:24:29.280 --> 2:24:33.840 is our shared concept of reality, our ability to exists 2:24:33.920 --> 2:24:37.800 as a population within the same world, or at least 2:24:37.920 --> 2:24:41.640 versions of the same world that even slightly interact with 2:24:41.760 --> 2:24:44.160 each other. And my guest for this episode about the 2:24:44.200 --> 2:24:48.680 breaking of reality. Garrison, Davis, Garrison, what do you know 2:24:48.920 --> 2:24:51.000 about the USS Eisenhower. 2:24:52.560 --> 2:24:54.280 Is that is that from Star Trek? 2:24:54.560 --> 2:24:57.160 Is that a Yeah, that's the ship that they all 2:24:57.240 --> 2:24:59.800 fly around and in Star Trek, the many voyages of 2:24:59.840 --> 2:25:06.760 the Starship Eisenhower. It's continually miss such a different show 2:25:07.280 --> 2:25:12.320 every episode. They're just fucking with Guatemala like every single episode, 2:25:13.200 --> 2:25:16.120 but cards just finding another way to overthrow the government 2:25:16.160 --> 2:25:16.879 of Guatemala. 2:25:19.440 --> 2:25:19.640 Yeah. 2:25:19.720 --> 2:25:22.359 No, that's like alternate universe evil Gene Roddenberry. 2:25:22.600 --> 2:25:25.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, if Gene Roddenberry had been like a 2:25:25.959 --> 2:25:31.640 hardcore conservative. Yeah, speaking of hardcore conservatives, we are talking 2:25:31.720 --> 2:25:35.200 again about alternate realities, and the USS Eisenhower is relevant 2:25:35.200 --> 2:25:37.760 to that because it's kind of been the subject of 2:25:37.879 --> 2:25:41.920 a reality fracture recently, just talking in terms of like 2:25:42.040 --> 2:25:45.120 things that are actually true. The USS Eisenhower is a 2:25:45.240 --> 2:25:47.959 very big aircraft carrier. It's got something like five thousand 2:25:48.040 --> 2:25:51.520 people and its crew. It's nuclear powered. It can stay 2:25:51.560 --> 2:25:54.080 i think up to like twenty five years. Potentially, it 2:25:54.160 --> 2:25:57.240 could stay in the field without needing to like refuel 2:25:57.360 --> 2:25:58.080 or anything like that. 2:25:58.879 --> 2:25:59.440 That's wild. 2:25:59.760 --> 2:26:03.160 Yeah. Yeah, Aircraft carriers are insane things, and it is 2:26:03.280 --> 2:26:05.960 the center of an Air Force carrier group, which is 2:26:06.000 --> 2:26:07.400 a group of I think there's something like ten or 2:26:07.440 --> 2:26:10.000 eleven other ships in it, a combination of like you've 2:26:10.000 --> 2:26:13.000 got like destroyers, these little missile ships. I think there's 2:26:13.040 --> 2:26:16.000 some submarines. Probably an ice cream ship in there somewhere. 2:26:16.040 --> 2:26:18.800 That's kind of like a key thing the US military does. Anyway, 2:26:19.200 --> 2:26:21.640 the Eisenhower is the ship that's out in the Gulf 2:26:21.680 --> 2:26:25.160 of Aiden right now throwing down with the Hoothys. And 2:26:25.600 --> 2:26:30.080 on the thirty first of last month, there was a 2:26:30.360 --> 2:26:34.760 series of attacks launched by the Eisenhower along with some 2:26:34.959 --> 2:26:39.680 of our British allies, striking thirteen Hoothy targets at various 2:26:39.760 --> 2:26:42.520 locations in Yemen. This was in response to a number 2:26:42.520 --> 2:26:45.600 of attacks that the Hoothies had launched recently on shipping 2:26:45.920 --> 2:26:48.080 in the region, including I think they hit a Greek 2:26:48.120 --> 2:26:51.120 ship a couple of times. The strikes came also a 2:26:51.240 --> 2:26:53.879 day after the Hoothy's shot down an m Q nine 2:26:54.040 --> 2:26:57.240 Reaper drone, which was the third downing of a Reaper 2:26:57.320 --> 2:27:00.279 drone in May. So the Hoothies have been dropping reefs 2:27:00.520 --> 2:27:03.160 pretty regularly. So anyway, all of this led to a 2:27:03.240 --> 2:27:06.200 massive series of strikes that were kind of you know, 2:27:06.480 --> 2:27:11.440 launched from the Eisenhower on Houthy targets. Houthy rebels said 2:27:11.480 --> 2:27:13.720 that the air strikes killed at least sixteen people and 2:27:13.760 --> 2:27:16.280 wounded thirty five others. I think that death toll has 2:27:16.440 --> 2:27:19.360 risen since the article, the Washington Post article I'm looking 2:27:19.400 --> 2:27:21.080 at now, and that you know, we're going to be 2:27:21.160 --> 2:27:23.959 talking about things that are credible and not credible. If 2:27:24.000 --> 2:27:26.920 the Hoothies say, given the attacks launched, that death toll 2:27:26.959 --> 2:27:29.840 seems pretty credible to me, just based on other strikes 2:27:29.879 --> 2:27:33.920 that I've read about. The Houthis launched a retaliatory strikes 2:27:34.120 --> 2:27:36.840 on the Enterprise, or at least they claim that they did. 2:27:37.320 --> 2:27:41.040 Wait on the on the Eisenhower. We did used to 2:27:41.120 --> 2:27:43.400 have an aircraft carrier name the Enterprise. I don't I 2:27:43.440 --> 2:27:47.280 think we've decommissioned it since I'm blaming real fast. 2:27:47.400 --> 2:27:49.039 He would he would not, he will? 2:27:49.120 --> 2:27:51.200 He would He would be fucking his way through the 2:27:51.280 --> 2:27:57.560 Houthis already. Kirk would have. That's ah. God, Star Trek 2:27:57.680 --> 2:28:00.360 is so much more fun to talk about than actual geopolos, 2:28:01.000 --> 2:28:05.480 which are mostly depressing with the genocide and all anyway, 2:28:05.920 --> 2:28:08.040 the houthis claimed that they launched an attack on the 2:28:08.120 --> 2:28:12.800 Eisenhower the US. The DoD says that they did not. 2:28:13.240 --> 2:28:17.080 The Hoothy Press person stated that they hit the Eisenhower. 2:28:17.200 --> 2:28:20.840 The hit was accurate and direct. Again, there's no evidence 2:28:20.920 --> 2:28:24.800 of this whatsoever that's been posted. The story seems to 2:28:24.879 --> 2:28:28.840 have started percolating out into kind of lefty media when 2:28:28.920 --> 2:28:32.360 Hoothy Press people made this announcement. I think the first 2:28:32.800 --> 2:28:36.560 direct statement I found about it outside of like hoothy 2:28:36.680 --> 2:28:41.800 Press resources was a Twitter account called for an online 2:28:41.840 --> 2:28:45.840 news magazine calling West Asian geopolitics called The Cradle. I'm 2:28:45.879 --> 2:28:48.440 not wildly familiar with The Cradle. They've got something like 2:28:48.480 --> 2:28:52.440 one hundred and nine thousand followers on Twitter, and they 2:28:52.520 --> 2:28:54.879 seem to mostly be you could say, like a broadly 2:28:55.600 --> 2:28:59.600 sort of anti imperialist left. Most of their content lately 2:28:59.800 --> 2:29:03.920 is very pro Gaza. You know, there's stuff like articles 2:29:03.920 --> 2:29:07.600 about Israeli organ trafficking networks in Turkey. You know, they've 2:29:07.640 --> 2:29:10.959 got like video clips of like pro Palestinian protesters getting 2:29:11.040 --> 2:29:14.360 dunks in on pro israel protesters, a like protests and 2:29:14.400 --> 2:29:17.720 stuff like that, very standard stuff. And on the thirty 2:29:17.800 --> 2:29:21.600 first they posted a They made a post yeah, basically 2:29:21.720 --> 2:29:25.520 restating what the Houthis had said, although they instead of 2:29:25.720 --> 2:29:27.600 saying the Houthis made a claim that they had struck 2:29:27.640 --> 2:29:30.119 the Eisenhower, they claimed it was ye many Armed Forces. 2:29:30.560 --> 2:29:32.400 It's an easy way to tell that someone is not 2:29:32.560 --> 2:29:35.480 accurately reporting on what's happening in Yemen because the Houthis 2:29:35.520 --> 2:29:38.040 are actively at war with YEA many armed forces. Like 2:29:38.120 --> 2:29:40.720 that is the actual reality of the situation on the 2:29:40.800 --> 2:29:44.480 ground over there. So this got picked up by chunks 2:29:44.560 --> 2:29:48.920 of lefty media, and particularly like American lefty media. I 2:29:48.959 --> 2:29:52.040 think one of the first big accounts to take this 2:29:52.160 --> 2:29:55.279 story was a guy named Ashton Forbes. You know Ashton. 2:29:56.120 --> 2:29:58.520 I don't think I've heard of Ashton Forbes. This is 2:29:58.920 --> 2:30:04.880 this whole like left media anti imperialism bubble has just 2:30:04.959 --> 2:30:07.520 gotten so big the past like six months. 2:30:08.360 --> 2:30:10.680 These are mostly accounts, and I believe this is true 2:30:10.720 --> 2:30:13.520 for Ashton too, who like they blew up in the 2:30:13.680 --> 2:30:17.920 wake of October seventh once, particularly once the Israeli started 2:30:18.000 --> 2:30:22.800 launching massive strikes on Gaza. And they primarily exist within 2:30:23.200 --> 2:30:28.040 the profit ecosystem that Elon established in Twitter right where 2:30:28.480 --> 2:30:30.760 if you have a verified account and you get a 2:30:30.800 --> 2:30:33.400 lot of engagements from other verified accounts, you get a 2:30:33.520 --> 2:30:36.720 chunk of money from Twitter, right, And so all these 2:30:36.720 --> 2:30:41.879 people figured out that there's a huge appetite for reposted 2:30:42.000 --> 2:30:44.840 videos from Gaza or videos that you just claim are 2:30:44.879 --> 2:30:46.960 reposted videos from Gaza. A huge number of them are 2:30:47.000 --> 2:30:50.039 from Syria, and if they make people really angry or horrified, 2:30:50.400 --> 2:30:52.680 they'll get shared and get a ton of engagement, and 2:30:52.760 --> 2:30:55.560 you will get a check, right, Like, That's that's where 2:30:55.640 --> 2:30:57.520 Ashton comes out of. That's where all these guys come 2:30:57.560 --> 2:31:00.480 out of. So Ashton sees. I don't know if he 2:31:00.520 --> 2:31:02.480 picked it up directly from the hoothy press people. I 2:31:02.480 --> 2:31:03.680 don't know if he picked it up from that thing 2:31:03.720 --> 2:31:07.120 on the cradle, But he posts the next day breaking 2:31:07.480 --> 2:31:10.680 and he's got of course, of course I'll show you. 2:31:10.680 --> 2:31:12.760 I'll share screen garrisons. You can see he's got he's 2:31:12.760 --> 2:31:15.160 got the two little sirens. Yeah, he's got the two 2:31:15.200 --> 2:31:18.160 little sirens on either side. Oh yeah, no, of course 2:31:18.600 --> 2:31:21.640 there's a million of this guy. This guy is all 2:31:21.720 --> 2:31:24.720 over the internet. A source has informed me that the 2:31:24.840 --> 2:31:29.360 USS Eisenhower has been sunk all caps. Mainstream media reports 2:31:29.360 --> 2:31:32.240 from yesterday claim the ship was not hit by Houthy missiles. 2:31:32.520 --> 2:31:36.480 Social media shows conflicting reports of damage. I'm seeking corroboration 2:31:36.640 --> 2:31:40.200 on this potentially huge story. So first we see the 2:31:40.600 --> 2:31:43.879 escalation of the HOUTHI say, we shot at the Eisenhower 2:31:44.000 --> 2:31:46.320 and we hit it right. They didn't claim they'd sunk it. 2:31:46.400 --> 2:31:48.440 I think because the Houthis are like, they're not dumb, 2:31:48.640 --> 2:31:51.760 and like, that's an easy claim to disprove. Whereas yeah, 2:31:51.879 --> 2:31:54.320 you can kind of like there's not as much live 2:31:54.760 --> 2:31:56.480 footage of this, you could kind of get away for 2:31:56.480 --> 2:31:58.240 a while with making people think maybe you damaged it 2:31:58.320 --> 2:32:00.160 a little bit, or at least you got close, you know. 2:32:00.840 --> 2:32:04.680 But a source a source, yes, a source from citizen 2:32:04.800 --> 2:32:10.640 journalist Ashton Forbes speaking truth to power. Yeah. The evidence 2:32:10.720 --> 2:32:12.920 that Forbes post, because he says, like social media so 2:32:12.959 --> 2:32:16.440 there's conflicting reports of damage, is a screen grab of 2:32:16.520 --> 2:32:19.560 what looks like an aircraft carrier that's on fire. You 2:32:19.680 --> 2:32:21.440 can see a water very. 2:32:21.320 --> 2:32:23.880 Boring, very very blurry picture as well. 2:32:24.040 --> 2:32:26.400 Yeah, and there's there's there's a watermark. I don't know 2:32:26.400 --> 2:32:28.120 if you can see it clearly on this gear, but 2:32:28.280 --> 2:32:31.080 like that says Arabic journal so he clearly took it 2:32:31.240 --> 2:32:35.160 from another website. Right now, I would describe the image 2:32:35.240 --> 2:32:38.320 quality of this as cell phone camera circa two thousand 2:32:38.360 --> 2:32:38.760 and seven. 2:32:39.400 --> 2:32:44.520 That's accurate. Yeah, it roughly at like three d s camera. Yeah, yeah, 2:32:45.280 --> 2:32:45.640 it looked. 2:32:45.680 --> 2:32:47.800 It's not even super clear to me that that's an 2:32:47.800 --> 2:32:52.240 aircraft carrier. Forbes's post obviously, you know, does not occur 2:32:52.400 --> 2:32:54.480 in a vacuum here, And it would be deeply fucked 2:32:54.520 --> 2:32:57.520 up for me to say, like citizen journalists shouldn't exist, 2:32:57.720 --> 2:33:00.320 Like if someone identifies themselves as that, it's a sign 2:33:00.360 --> 2:33:02.920 that they're danger or that they're they're full of shit, right, 2:33:02.959 --> 2:33:06.880 because recent history is filled with people who call themselves 2:33:07.240 --> 2:33:10.160 citizen journalists putting out bullshit. But like it's also filled 2:33:10.200 --> 2:33:13.240 with instances of citizens doing crucial journalism in the absence 2:33:13.280 --> 2:33:14.960 of credential professionals. 2:33:14.920 --> 2:33:16.280 Especially in Gaza right now. 2:33:16.520 --> 2:33:18.640 Oh yeah, I mean that's basically everything, right, in part 2:33:18.720 --> 2:33:21.400 because most of the journalists who have tried to report 2:33:21.440 --> 2:33:23.880 on it have been fucking murdered. But even in the US, 2:33:24.000 --> 2:33:26.040 we have the recent case of Darnella Frasier, who was 2:33:26.040 --> 2:33:27.840 the eighteen year old woman who filmed the murder of 2:33:27.920 --> 2:33:30.400 George Floyd on May twenty fifth, twenty twenty. She received 2:33:30.440 --> 2:33:34.640 a Pulitzer Prize the next year for her video. However, journalism, 2:33:34.720 --> 2:33:37.600 while again there's a lot of value in citizen journalism, 2:33:37.920 --> 2:33:40.880 journalism is also a technical trade and there are in 2:33:40.959 --> 2:33:43.520 fact some things that random dirts on the Internet should 2:33:43.600 --> 2:33:47.280 not report on, and an attack on the Eisenhower is 2:33:47.400 --> 2:33:50.000 maybe one of them. To make a long story short, 2:33:50.280 --> 2:33:53.879 the USS Eisenhower was not sunk. It is virtually impossible 2:33:53.920 --> 2:33:56.359 for non state forces like the Houthies, with the weaponry 2:33:56.440 --> 2:33:59.960 that they currently enjoy, to sink a vessel like the Eisenhower. 2:34:00.400 --> 2:34:02.200 And for a little bit of context on why that 2:34:02.360 --> 2:34:04.959 is the case, I want to talk about another aircraft 2:34:05.040 --> 2:34:08.760 carrier called the USS Independence. The Independence was one of 2:34:08.840 --> 2:34:11.640 many many aircraft carriers produced by the United States to 2:34:11.720 --> 2:34:14.119 curb stomp the Empire of Japan during World War Two. 2:34:14.800 --> 2:34:17.720 After that war, we found ourselves with way more aircraft 2:34:17.800 --> 2:34:20.800 carriers than we needed or could afford to operate indefinitely 2:34:20.840 --> 2:34:23.840 at peacetime. So we decided to do the smartest thing 2:34:23.920 --> 2:34:26.640 we could with all these extra aircraft carriers and nuke them. 2:34:27.240 --> 2:34:27.960 That was swait. 2:34:29.920 --> 2:34:36.880 Yes, yes, well, it's classic nineteen forty six America logic. 2:34:37.280 --> 2:34:38.400 That is true. That is true. 2:34:38.600 --> 2:34:43.640 That is so, the Independence didn't brave nuclear hell fire alone. 2:34:43.720 --> 2:34:47.360 As part of Operations Crossroads, we detonated two nuclear bombs 2:34:47.440 --> 2:34:50.520 within seventeen hundred feet of a fleet of ships. That's 2:34:50.560 --> 2:34:53.480 pretty close to point blank range in nuclear weapons terms. 2:34:54.000 --> 2:34:56.960 Fourteen ships were sunk out right by these nukes, and 2:34:57.040 --> 2:34:59.880 the remainder were badly damaged. The Independence was one of 2:35:00.160 --> 2:35:03.080 the boats that remained floating, though, and it actually was 2:35:03.200 --> 2:35:08.039 towed back to San Francisco after being nuked twice. Two 2:35:08.240 --> 2:35:11.920 nukes could not sink a nineteen forty six aircraft carrier. 2:35:12.440 --> 2:35:14.480 What are they building these things out of? 2:35:14.920 --> 2:35:18.039 They're very big, and they are if you are attacking 2:35:18.120 --> 2:35:21.560 them above the water line, it's really hard to sink 2:35:21.640 --> 2:35:24.320 one of these boats, right, Like, that's kind of the thing. 2:35:24.400 --> 2:35:26.920 You can lob huge missiles and hit them with huge 2:35:27.000 --> 2:35:29.160 missiles on the top of the thing, and that can 2:35:29.480 --> 2:35:31.800 stop them from being able to launch aircraft. It can 2:35:31.879 --> 2:35:35.120 kill crew, but unless you're actually blowing a big hole 2:35:35.200 --> 2:35:37.560 in it below the water line, you're not going to 2:35:37.680 --> 2:35:39.840 send one of these fuckers to the bottom of the ocean, 2:35:39.959 --> 2:35:41.200 right That's just kind of sure. 2:35:41.440 --> 2:35:44.360 Physics, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 2:35:44.440 --> 2:35:47.760 So we towed the Independence back to San Francisco. They 2:35:47.800 --> 2:35:50.440 actually built a radiation lab in the boat itself for 2:35:50.520 --> 2:35:54.560 a while. And then that's again because the United States 2:35:54.640 --> 2:35:57.600 be how the United States do? We filled this massive 2:35:57.680 --> 2:36:01.199 boat with concrete drums full of radioactive waist and sunk 2:36:01.240 --> 2:36:03.959 it thirty miles off the coast of California with two torpes. 2:36:04.000 --> 2:36:11.039 That's fucking hilarious. That rules. Hell yeah, brother, this country man. 2:36:14.200 --> 2:36:17.880 So again, once we started lobbin torpedoes at this fucker 2:36:18.120 --> 2:36:21.039 underneath the boat, it was not wildly hard to sink 2:36:21.120 --> 2:36:23.199 the son of a bitch, right, And that's the reality 2:36:23.240 --> 2:36:24.959 of the situation. If the Huthies were able to get 2:36:25.040 --> 2:36:27.920 like some subs that were capable of like actually getting 2:36:28.040 --> 2:36:31.120 through you know, the dragnet of boats that are defending 2:36:31.520 --> 2:36:34.080 the Enterprise, and they could get any kind of you know, 2:36:34.280 --> 2:36:37.560 decent sized torpedo underneath it, they might have a chance 2:36:37.640 --> 2:36:38.160 of sinking it. 2:36:38.400 --> 2:36:43.080 Photon torpedoes, photon torpedo for the Enterprise, yes, yes, yes, yes, 2:36:43.440 --> 2:36:44.480 or a quantum torpedo. 2:36:44.560 --> 2:36:46.959 If we've moved on to d S nine Garrison. 2:36:47.000 --> 2:36:48.840 Oh, I've not started DS nine year. 2:36:48.920 --> 2:36:51.680 Oh, oh, it's great. It's the horniest star Trek Garrison, 2:36:51.720 --> 2:36:57.960 which is shocking to it is shockingly horny. So I 2:36:58.000 --> 2:37:00.400 want to note while I'm talking about the impossi ability 2:37:00.400 --> 2:37:03.359 of the Huthies using their current methods, which are basically 2:37:03.440 --> 2:37:06.560 when it comes to how they've been attacking the Eisenhower, 2:37:06.600 --> 2:37:08.959 they've been either flying drones at it, trying to ram 2:37:09.080 --> 2:37:12.160 it with an explosive drone, or launching cruise missiles at 2:37:12.200 --> 2:37:14.480 it right, and all of these are basically aiming for 2:37:14.640 --> 2:37:16.560 the top of this boat, because that's kind of the 2:37:16.640 --> 2:37:17.320 option that they have. 2:37:17.800 --> 2:37:21.320 I was not aware that they had like advanced submarine capabilities. 2:37:21.680 --> 2:37:24.040 They sure don't as far as I'm aware they don't. Yeah, 2:37:24.320 --> 2:37:27.360 now it is. It's worth noting potentially it could be 2:37:27.480 --> 2:37:32.760 surprisingly easy sometimes to sink a modern aircraft carrier if 2:37:32.800 --> 2:37:35.400 you have a decent submarine. And there's evidence of this 2:37:35.520 --> 2:37:38.720 that came from a joint Franco US naval exercise off 2:37:38.760 --> 2:37:41.440 to the coast of Florida in March of twenty fifteen, 2:37:41.520 --> 2:37:44.400 where basically we're doing this exercise with the French at 2:37:44.440 --> 2:37:47.360 one point. This French submarine is part of the Op 2:37:47.480 --> 2:37:50.160 four which is like opposition forces during a war game, 2:37:50.560 --> 2:37:53.440 and it sinks the Roosevelt and most of its escorts 2:37:53.640 --> 2:37:57.240 in like a simulated battle. And this is you know, 2:37:57.640 --> 2:38:01.720 it's very funny because like the French military posted about 2:38:01.720 --> 2:38:03.160 this and then had to delete it because it was 2:38:03.440 --> 2:38:06.400 really embarrassing for the Navy, and it's seen as evidence 2:38:06.400 --> 2:38:09.320 by people who actually know their shit about naval power 2:38:09.440 --> 2:38:13.720 and naval warfare is like, oh, US anti sub interdiction 2:38:14.240 --> 2:38:17.800 tactics and technology really took a hit in the post 2:38:17.840 --> 2:38:20.280 Cold War period. We stopped putting money into it because 2:38:20.320 --> 2:38:22.800 like we thought, well, who's going to send subs after 2:38:22.920 --> 2:38:24.040 us if the Russians are gone? 2:38:24.120 --> 2:38:24.280 Right? 2:38:24.520 --> 2:38:26.280 Yeah exactly, yeah, yea yeah yeah. 2:38:26.440 --> 2:38:27.959 So I don't mean to say that like these boats 2:38:28.000 --> 2:38:31.040 are invulnerable. Nothing can stop the US Navy. In fact, 2:38:31.080 --> 2:38:35.360 the evidence suggests that like a modestly powerful naval power 2:38:35.400 --> 2:38:37.560 could do some serious damage to a carrier group in 2:38:37.600 --> 2:38:40.600 the right circumstances. It's just the way the houthis. The 2:38:40.640 --> 2:38:42.960 claims people are making about how the houthis sunk the 2:38:43.120 --> 2:38:45.879 Eisenhower is not a way in which the Eisenhower could 2:38:45.959 --> 2:38:49.320 realistically be sunk. Right, some bootleg Iranian missiles are not 2:38:49.520 --> 2:38:52.280 going to sink the most advanced carrier in the world today. 2:38:52.520 --> 2:38:56.080 Two nukes couldn't do a comparatively shitty carrier in nineteen 2:38:56.160 --> 2:38:58.959 forty six. Now, this is all pretty obvious to anyone 2:38:59.000 --> 2:39:01.680 who knows the first thing about modern naval warfare. But 2:39:01.760 --> 2:39:05.640 it was not obvious to our citizen journalist friend, Ashton Forbes. 2:39:05.920 --> 2:39:07.920 When numerous people pointed out to him that his claims 2:39:07.959 --> 2:39:10.760 were absurd, he replied, yeah, I wanted to hold back 2:39:10.800 --> 2:39:12.840 on this story in case it's not true, but I 2:39:12.920 --> 2:39:15.360 trust my source and the media reports stink to me. 2:39:15.600 --> 2:39:17.520 If this ends up being wrong, I'll retract. But the 2:39:17.560 --> 2:39:19.640 implications are too huge not to report? 2:39:20.480 --> 2:39:22.440 Sure, sure, yeah, sure, buddy, why not. 2:39:23.240 --> 2:39:26.200 We're going to dig into that and the ethics of 2:39:26.280 --> 2:39:30.400 the journalism that he claims to be practicing. But first, 2:39:30.840 --> 2:39:34.200 the ethics of my journalism are that you should buy 2:39:34.280 --> 2:39:49.880 whatever these advertisers are selling, and we're back. So I 2:39:50.000 --> 2:39:53.720 really hate the too huge not to report justification. That's like, 2:39:54.480 --> 2:39:58.320 that's incredibly unethical journalism, because like, if a story is 2:39:58.400 --> 2:39:59.320 that huge. 2:39:59.120 --> 2:40:01.720 Actually, Robert, no, no, no, I just got an update 2:40:01.760 --> 2:40:05.640 from a source that nine to eleven two just happened. 2:40:06.320 --> 2:40:08.760 Oh wow, I have, I have, I have a very 2:40:08.840 --> 2:40:11.680 blurry picture. I'm going to post it up on Twitter 2:40:11.800 --> 2:40:15.160 right now. I can't verify, but this is if true, 2:40:15.879 --> 2:40:18.960 this is groundbreaking, uh literally in case of you know 2:40:19.120 --> 2:40:19.879 the ground. 2:40:20.120 --> 2:40:22.800 Yeah, and I know listeners are like, there's no way 2:40:22.959 --> 2:40:25.880 nine to eleven two happened several days ago by the 2:40:25.920 --> 2:40:27.720 time you listened to this episode, and I haven't heard 2:40:27.720 --> 2:40:30.280 about it. I want to remind you about the film 2:40:30.360 --> 2:40:32.720 Mad Max Fury Road. You know, when that came out, 2:40:32.920 --> 2:40:36.000 none of us were expecting another Mad Max movie and 2:40:36.120 --> 2:40:37.800 we got a great one. And I think nine to 2:40:37.800 --> 2:40:41.000 eleven two could be the Fury Road of terrorism attacks. 2:40:41.600 --> 2:40:45.199 Real promise, real promise. They also could be censoring the story. 2:40:45.240 --> 2:40:46.080 They may not want you to know. 2:40:46.280 --> 2:40:48.160 In case you haven't heard the news, doesn't want you 2:40:48.240 --> 2:40:50.640 to know that nine eleven two already happened because it's 2:40:50.640 --> 2:40:53.279 going to destroy the market for nine to eleven one memorabilia. 2:40:53.840 --> 2:40:58.960 You know, that's everybody needs to read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky. 2:40:59.160 --> 2:40:59.920 He lays it all. 2:41:03.959 --> 2:41:04.680 As you're saying. 2:41:05.240 --> 2:41:08.120 So obviously, if a story is as big as this 2:41:08.360 --> 2:41:10.960 and the sinking of the Eisenhower would be like the 2:41:11.080 --> 2:41:14.920 most significant military reversal in the twenty first century. Maybe, 2:41:15.320 --> 2:41:17.000 you know, I guess you could argue like the US 2:41:17.640 --> 2:41:21.680 of leaving Afghanistan. Maybe, But honestly, from a technological standpoint, 2:41:21.720 --> 2:41:24.480 at least the huth he's managing to drop an aircraft 2:41:24.560 --> 2:41:27.240 carrier would be massive. And if a story is that big, 2:41:27.520 --> 2:41:30.119 you have a responsibility not to report on it until 2:41:30.160 --> 2:41:32.920 you have any reason at all to believe that it's true. 2:41:33.360 --> 2:41:36.360 So when somebody says the implication or too the implications 2:41:36.400 --> 2:41:38.080 are too huge not to report on what they mean 2:41:38.200 --> 2:41:40.360 is I wanted the clout in traffic from getting this 2:41:40.480 --> 2:41:42.680 out first, and I don't really care if it's true. 2:41:43.360 --> 2:41:46.040 Now it happens to be quite easy to prove that 2:41:46.080 --> 2:41:48.960 the USS Eisenhower is still among the living, because the 2:41:49.080 --> 2:41:50.959 captain of that boat is a poster. 2:41:51.720 --> 2:41:53.640 His name is oh God, Oh. 2:41:54.240 --> 2:41:57.039 This man posts like you wouldn't believe Garrison. I've never 2:41:57.160 --> 2:42:01.320 seen a commanding officer in the military who posts. 2:42:01.080 --> 2:42:01.640 Like this man. 2:42:02.600 --> 2:42:05.640 Do you think Riker would be a poster? I don't know. 2:42:06.360 --> 2:42:08.720 Riker would be. He would do a lot of dming. 2:42:08.840 --> 2:42:14.320 He would be sliding into DMS, an awful loss like yeah, yes, absolutely, 2:42:14.560 --> 2:42:16.920 he would constantly be trying to fuck But I think 2:42:16.959 --> 2:42:19.200 the only reason he would actually post is when like 2:42:19.360 --> 2:42:21.680 something broke and he couldn't figure out how to fix it, 2:42:21.920 --> 2:42:25.119 he would he would be like adding Jordie constantly like yes, 2:42:25.920 --> 2:42:27.440 I can't get my computer working. 2:42:28.280 --> 2:42:28.959 That makes sense. 2:42:29.440 --> 2:42:32.720 So the captain of the Enterprise is Christopher F. Hill. 2:42:32.800 --> 2:42:35.200 And again he's a poster for reasons that I have 2:42:35.360 --> 2:42:37.600 not bothered to look into and don't care to learn. 2:42:37.879 --> 2:42:40.920 He goes by chowda on Twitter like with a with 2:42:41.000 --> 2:42:43.560 a dah, I don't I don't know why, and within 2:42:43.680 --> 2:42:47.720 minutes of the Forbes post about uh, or of of 2:42:47.800 --> 2:42:51.000 Forbes's post, he himself posted videos of the bakery on 2:42:51.080 --> 2:42:54.320 board the Eisenhower, which showed no signs of being underwater. 2:42:54.760 --> 2:42:56.280 I think that was kind of his subtle way of 2:42:56.360 --> 2:42:59.400 being like, we are still making like cinnamon rolls, like 2:42:59.560 --> 2:43:02.920 every is fine on board this ship. In short order, 2:43:03.280 --> 2:43:07.680 Internet Salutes discovered that the video clip posted by Forbes 2:43:07.720 --> 2:43:11.400 that claimed to show the Eisenhower in flames was Garrison. 2:43:11.400 --> 2:43:12.920 Do you want to guess where this what this was 2:43:12.959 --> 2:43:13.840 a screenshot from? 2:43:14.440 --> 2:43:15.320 Is this a video game? 2:43:15.520 --> 2:43:17.720 It is a video game. It's the video game Arma three. 2:43:17.840 --> 2:43:22.840 It's from Arma three every time, every time, whenever this 2:43:22.959 --> 2:43:26.080 happens in the war in Ukraine too. Constantly they'll be like, 2:43:26.320 --> 2:43:28.480 we've shot down you know, a bunch of these MiG 2:43:28.560 --> 2:43:31.720 twenty ones, or you know, shot down this massive Russian 2:43:31.840 --> 2:43:34.400 jet that's never been shot down before. Every time it's 2:43:34.520 --> 2:43:37.080 Arma three, like every single time. 2:43:37.600 --> 2:43:38.280 Unbelievable. 2:43:39.120 --> 2:43:42.240 Yeah, like eighty percent of the time, fake videos of 2:43:42.360 --> 2:43:46.360 military vehicles being destroyed, it's just clips from Arma three. Now, 2:43:46.720 --> 2:43:49.480 a brief glance into the backstory of Ashton Forbes would 2:43:49.480 --> 2:43:51.560 have made it clear that his claims were nonsense, as 2:43:51.600 --> 2:43:54.320 this rite up by George Allison in the UK Defense 2:43:54.440 --> 2:43:57.760 Journal notes, Ashton Forbes, despite his self identified role as 2:43:57.800 --> 2:44:00.280 a citizen journalist, has i'm told, a history of hosting 2:44:00.360 --> 2:44:04.640 sensational and often unverified claims, particularly about Malaysia Airlines. Flight 2:44:04.720 --> 2:44:09.039 three seventy was a commercial flight that disappeared in twenty 2:44:09.120 --> 2:44:12.080 fourteen we'll en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, leading 2:44:12.120 --> 2:44:15.240 to numerous conspiracy theories. Now we don't actually know why 2:44:15.440 --> 2:44:18.480 MH three seventy went down. I think probably the leading 2:44:18.640 --> 2:44:21.400 theory was that the pilot committed suicide. But even that, 2:44:21.520 --> 2:44:24.119 I don't think that there's like strong. I don't think 2:44:24.120 --> 2:44:26.959 it's it's very unclear, could have just been a fuck up, 2:44:27.000 --> 2:44:29.400 something like it's we really don't know, which is why 2:44:29.480 --> 2:44:30.800 there's so much conspiracy. 2:44:30.800 --> 2:44:31.760 It could have gone into a wormhole. 2:44:31.959 --> 2:44:34.280 So it could have gone into the wormhole right now. 2:44:34.680 --> 2:44:38.160 Forbes's belief, according to I found a post by Swift 2:44:38.240 --> 2:44:41.280 on security, who's a popular security expert, who states that 2:44:41.360 --> 2:44:45.080 Forbes believes MH three seventy had secret free energy tech 2:44:45.160 --> 2:44:47.879 on it that was raptured into a wormhole by reptilians. 2:44:48.000 --> 2:44:48.920 Are you so good? 2:44:50.200 --> 2:44:51.200 Yeah, you actually got it. 2:44:51.440 --> 2:44:52.200 I was doing a bit. 2:44:52.959 --> 2:45:00.200 You got it right, Garrison, Oh my god, Swim. It's 2:45:00.400 --> 2:45:03.640 an example of another one of the Citizen Journalist's big 2:45:03.800 --> 2:45:09.480 scoops free energy announcement. Free Energy, otherwise known as over Unity, 2:45:09.600 --> 2:45:12.520 is one hundred percent real. The devices exists already. I 2:45:12.600 --> 2:45:15.240 have been told exactly how an operational device works. I 2:45:15.320 --> 2:45:18.800 signed an NDA, so won't be able to disclose specifics. 2:45:19.240 --> 2:45:20.279 One hundred. 2:45:21.440 --> 2:45:24.840 That's great. I love that the people who figure out 2:45:24.879 --> 2:45:27.680 free energy would let you post about it as long 2:45:27.720 --> 2:45:29.520 as you don't explain how it works. 2:45:30.200 --> 2:45:31.959 I like that you signed an NDA, so you can't 2:45:31.959 --> 2:45:33.800 talk about it except for this post in what you 2:45:33.920 --> 2:45:36.680 do talk about it, and which have absolutely talk about 2:45:36.840 --> 2:45:39.600 classic classic move Now. 2:45:39.920 --> 2:45:43.199 Once Forbes's post started to gain traction, the entire ecosystem 2:45:43.240 --> 2:45:46.040 of infogrifters who cropped up like mushrooms to profit off 2:45:46.040 --> 2:45:49.320 the massacre in Gaza swung into gear thanks to Elon's 2:45:49.320 --> 2:45:52.240 new ownership of Twitter, Being able to draw viral crowds 2:45:52.280 --> 2:45:54.960 to your content by latching onto the most discussed topics 2:45:54.959 --> 2:45:57.680 of the day is very profitable, as we discussed, and 2:45:57.800 --> 2:45:59.960 into this mix you do have some state funded actors. 2:46:00.080 --> 2:46:02.680 You've got people working for Iran, for Israel, for Russia, 2:46:02.720 --> 2:46:05.080 for the United States, all trying to push their own 2:46:05.120 --> 2:46:08.600 sundry lines of propaganda using the engines of algorithmic virality. 2:46:09.160 --> 2:46:11.920 And then, of course there are the legitimately hopeful but 2:46:12.040 --> 2:46:14.400 ill informed. And these are the people that I have 2:46:14.560 --> 2:46:17.920 sympathy with and who I'm kind of like focusing on. 2:46:18.160 --> 2:46:22.360 These are people who are understandably numb from constant exposure 2:46:22.400 --> 2:46:25.240 to a barrage of photos and videos of war crimes, 2:46:25.720 --> 2:46:29.080 and they are desperately ready to believe in some kind 2:46:29.120 --> 2:46:31.000 of miraculous underdog victory. 2:46:31.080 --> 2:46:31.160 Right. 2:46:31.200 --> 2:46:33.600 Hollywood fiction has trained us all to see that as possible. 2:46:34.160 --> 2:46:35.880 This is being thought of by a lot of people 2:46:35.920 --> 2:46:39.840 who are just numb and broken from videos of horror 2:46:40.200 --> 2:46:42.520 as like, well, I don't know, maybe we could have 2:46:42.600 --> 2:46:45.040 our Star Wars moment, right, maybe we've got a Luke 2:46:45.080 --> 2:46:49.279 Skywalker downing the death Star. Now the houthis aren't Luke Skywalker, 2:46:49.320 --> 2:46:53.160 and the Eisenhower isn't entirely the death Star. It's like 2:46:53.600 --> 2:46:57.040 it's got shades of Death Star. It's DNA, it's got 2:46:57.120 --> 2:46:59.520 some Death Star DNA and it sure yeah. 2:47:00.040 --> 2:47:01.680 I mean it's closer to closer to a star. 2:47:01.560 --> 2:47:04.760 Destroyer, closer to a star destroyer right right right. One 2:47:04.800 --> 2:47:08.160 of the posts I came across researching this was Alden Marky, 2:47:08.280 --> 2:47:11.720 who describes himself as a counter propagandist and researcher with 2:47:11.800 --> 2:47:14.400 a focus on Yemen. He posted a photoshop of the 2:47:14.440 --> 2:47:17.480 Eisenhower from above with a dagger in the water beneath it. 2:47:17.879 --> 2:47:20.520 This was accompanied by the text uss Eisenhower was just 2:47:20.560 --> 2:47:22.640 struck for the second time in twenty four hours, and 2:47:22.720 --> 2:47:25.200 it had something like two thousand likes, two hundred and 2:47:25.200 --> 2:47:29.080 fifty thousand views when I came across it. Another account 2:47:29.160 --> 2:47:32.039 quote tweeted this and got nearly five thousand likes, saying 2:47:32.120 --> 2:47:34.360 it won't happen, but it would be so fucking funny 2:47:34.360 --> 2:47:37.200 if Yeman sinks an aircraft carrier, like can you imagine? 2:47:37.720 --> 2:47:40.280 And I think that guy represents the more common attitude, 2:47:40.320 --> 2:47:43.000 which is this mix of on we and desperation. Right, 2:47:43.440 --> 2:47:46.560 nothing is going to stop this massacre. It seems like that. 2:47:46.640 --> 2:47:49.000 It really feels like that, right, But wouldn't it be 2:47:49.120 --> 2:47:51.440 rad if something did? And to be realistic, I don't 2:47:51.480 --> 2:47:53.840 know that. I think there's a real odds that dropping 2:47:53.920 --> 2:47:56.920 the Eisenhower somehow would stop netnyahou from what he's doing. 2:47:57.000 --> 2:47:59.680 I mean maybe it would, like it would certainly reduce 2:47:59.720 --> 2:48:02.959 the ability of the United States to interdict Iranian messles 2:48:03.000 --> 2:48:05.680 coming into Israel, But I don't know that. I think 2:48:05.720 --> 2:48:08.440 that it's realistic that that's going to stop net Yahoo 2:48:08.480 --> 2:48:11.280 from doing the shit that net Yaho's doing. You can 2:48:11.360 --> 2:48:14.680 feel however you want about that. It's not irrational to 2:48:14.760 --> 2:48:17.680 be like, boy, I don't think this is real, but 2:48:17.959 --> 2:48:20.600 like I wish it was, right, So you can feel 2:48:20.640 --> 2:48:23.600 however you want about this guy. Wanting, you know, thousands 2:48:23.640 --> 2:48:27.040 of US soldiers to get murdered. I get both, Like, 2:48:27.760 --> 2:48:30.640 I don't think that realistically, anything the hoo thies are 2:48:30.720 --> 2:48:34.000 doing is going to stop what Israel's doing at this point, 2:48:34.480 --> 2:48:38.600 But I also understand just desperately wanting some violence to 2:48:38.680 --> 2:48:41.280 come down on the other side of this thing after 2:48:41.440 --> 2:48:44.640 months of watching videos of the slaughter in Gaza. You know, 2:48:44.800 --> 2:48:46.400 especially as you have you. 2:48:46.440 --> 2:48:50.240 Have like Nikki Haley signing right bombs that right and 2:48:50.360 --> 2:48:52.520 is sending over like come on, Like yeah, no, I 2:48:52.760 --> 2:48:55.320 could understand the emotional like, yeah, braw. 2:48:55.800 --> 2:48:58.800 It doesn't speak to the best angels of our nature, right, 2:48:58.840 --> 2:49:02.240 because you're what you're thinking, you're hoping for huge amounts 2:49:02.240 --> 2:49:04.840 of human death either way. But like, I get it, 2:49:05.160 --> 2:49:07.720 and it's not irrational, right, Saying there's no way this 2:49:07.920 --> 2:49:09.440 is real, but I wish it was is not an 2:49:09.480 --> 2:49:12.920 irrational feeling, right. You can contrast that to the posts 2:49:13.040 --> 2:49:17.720 of independent journalists and newsgrifter Richard Medhurst with four hundred 2:49:17.760 --> 2:49:21.000 and eighteen thousand followers, who posted this on June second, 2:49:21.480 --> 2:49:23.480 Jim instruct the best ship in the US Navy with 2:49:23.520 --> 2:49:25.640 ballistic and cruise missiles. The ship is fleeing, and the 2:49:25.720 --> 2:49:27.840 Captain of the us S Eisenhower, tried to do damage 2:49:27.840 --> 2:49:29.800 control by posting a video of the deck on Twitter, 2:49:30.040 --> 2:49:32.560 But it's an old Instagram reel from thirteen weeks ago. 2:49:32.760 --> 2:49:36.200 Left Yemen never lie, and. 2:49:36.320 --> 2:49:38.720 This is just an alternate reality that they've entered into. 2:49:38.800 --> 2:49:43.680 Now, yes, yes, you have. You have departed reality in 2:49:44.240 --> 2:49:47.480 favor of one that you are crafting because it's it's 2:49:47.520 --> 2:49:50.600 more comforting than the one in which nothing seems to 2:49:50.680 --> 2:49:53.879 be able to actually alter the course of violence in Gaza, right, 2:49:54.320 --> 2:49:58.040 So you're just deciding to believe in something else. Now, 2:49:58.160 --> 2:50:01.360 Community notes flagged this post, but it still has something 2:50:01.400 --> 2:50:03.200 like three hundred and fifty thousand views and more than 2:50:03.240 --> 2:50:07.040 four hundred thousand likes. Medhurst tis one hundred thousand or 2:50:07.080 --> 2:50:11.400 four thousand likes, sorry, four hundred and eighteen thousand followers, 2:50:11.440 --> 2:50:13.720 four thousand likes on the post I see four thousand 2:50:13.760 --> 2:50:18.360 likes is still a mess? Is a sizable super large number? Yeah. 2:50:18.879 --> 2:50:21.680 Medhurst has leaned hard into repeating claims that the Houthis 2:50:21.720 --> 2:50:24.240 have sunk or damaged the Eisenhower and another post with 2:50:24.360 --> 2:50:26.800 six thousand likes in eight hundred and twenty one thousand views. 2:50:27.040 --> 2:50:29.000 He describes the IKE as being hit with ballistic and 2:50:29.040 --> 2:50:31.840 cruise missiles and add, yeomen never lie in their press breathings, 2:50:31.920 --> 2:50:34.920 so I'm inclined to believe them. In one post, heam, 2:50:35.480 --> 2:50:38.720 I know it's In one post, he notes that the 2:50:38.800 --> 2:50:41.440 Houthy's recently shot down an m Q nine Reaper drone, 2:50:41.480 --> 2:50:43.680 which did happen, and claims the US won't admit to 2:50:43.760 --> 2:50:47.680 that either, and like, I haven't run into the US 2:50:47.760 --> 2:50:50.880 denying that this happened. There's three clear cases of m 2:50:50.959 --> 2:50:53.720 Q nine's being shot down last month alone, right, Like, 2:50:53.800 --> 2:50:56.119 we actually know a lot about this, which is part 2:50:56.120 --> 2:50:58.320 of why I don't believe the Eisenhower shot down, As 2:50:58.360 --> 2:51:02.120 they the Houthis were able to prove quite readily that 2:51:02.200 --> 2:51:04.879 they had shot down the MQ nine's. I have seen 2:51:04.959 --> 2:51:08.240 no proof that the Eisenhower's been hit, right, and this 2:51:08.400 --> 2:51:10.360 isn't just a case where like the Houthis should be 2:51:10.400 --> 2:51:13.000 able to provide some actual proof if they'd done this. 2:51:13.400 --> 2:51:16.720 The Eisenhower is a floating city with a population of thousands. 2:51:17.000 --> 2:51:18.840 There's like seven or eight thousand people. I think at 2:51:18.920 --> 2:51:21.160 least in the whole strike group. I will con see 2:51:21.200 --> 2:51:23.640 that the military could probably keep a lid on an 2:51:23.680 --> 2:51:27.480 attack against the Eisenhower, and might even temporarily be able 2:51:27.520 --> 2:51:29.840 to hide the fact that it had suffered minor damage. 2:51:30.120 --> 2:51:33.080 But you're not keeping any anything significant secret for the 2:51:33.160 --> 2:51:35.720 long haul, right, Like you just you can't. You can't 2:51:35.840 --> 2:51:39.000 keep secrets like that. There's too many people. They're going 2:51:39.080 --> 2:51:41.440 to talk to their families. If the boat goes down 2:51:41.480 --> 2:51:44.280 with thousands of people on board, family members are going 2:51:44.320 --> 2:51:45.879 to be like, boy, none of us have heard from 2:51:45.920 --> 2:51:47.840 our loved ones in a while. Right. 2:51:47.959 --> 2:51:50.840 Also think also like the government would say something and 2:51:51.000 --> 2:51:54.320 like start like a massive batch of retaliation, Like it's 2:51:54.360 --> 2:51:56.560 not like America would be like, oh, sh. 2:51:56.720 --> 2:51:59.240 Quiet, we just have to pretend this didn't happen. 2:51:59.520 --> 2:52:02.360 Yeah, they're gonna be talking about a NonStop for the 2:52:02.440 --> 2:52:04.320 past like three months. 2:52:04.520 --> 2:52:06.640 We sent the Eisenhower and its crew to a nice 2:52:06.720 --> 2:52:13.120 farm up state exactly. So why would the Houthies this 2:52:13.240 --> 2:52:15.440 is a question to ask, Then why would the Hoothies 2:52:15.480 --> 2:52:18.280 make fake claims that are obviously fake claims about striking 2:52:18.320 --> 2:52:19.000 the Eisenhower? 2:52:19.200 --> 2:52:19.320 Right? 2:52:19.680 --> 2:52:21.520 And I think it's because at this point, for a 2:52:21.560 --> 2:52:25.039 sizeable chunk of people, fake Hoothy attacks on US assets 2:52:25.080 --> 2:52:27.200 are just as good as real ones. And I think 2:52:27.280 --> 2:52:30.120 there are people within the leadership cadres of the Houthis 2:52:30.240 --> 2:52:33.520 who know that perfectly well. It is entirely possible that 2:52:33.560 --> 2:52:36.640 the Hoothies find themselves low on munitions after months of 2:52:36.760 --> 2:52:40.720 conflict with the US, and somebody smart realized, like, what 2:52:40.840 --> 2:52:43.040 if we just say we shot at them, right, It'll 2:52:43.120 --> 2:52:45.760 have the same propaganda impact and we won't have a 2:52:45.879 --> 2:52:46.600 waste a missile. 2:52:46.760 --> 2:52:46.880 Right. 2:52:47.640 --> 2:52:49.600 No, you'll still be able to talk about it on 2:52:49.720 --> 2:52:53.600 your Los Angeles Twitch stream to your hundreds of thousands 2:52:53.640 --> 2:52:54.880 of followers. 2:52:54.879 --> 2:53:00.240 Right, the ongoing gendescide, If that's what actually is happening here, 2:53:00.879 --> 2:53:03.080 I could see that as a reasonably cunning move. You know, 2:53:03.160 --> 2:53:05.879 the ongoing genocide and gaza the other inability of protest 2:53:06.000 --> 2:53:09.120 or armed resistance to change it in any way leads 2:53:09.200 --> 2:53:12.720 some people to a kind of mad desperation. In this desperation, 2:53:12.800 --> 2:53:14.760 the Houthis have become a symbol of hope to many 2:53:14.800 --> 2:53:16.920 people for the simple reason that they seem to be 2:53:17.040 --> 2:53:21.000 capable of taking action against the forces protecting Israel as 2:53:21.080 --> 2:53:24.199 Israel commits war crimes. Now, the reality of the situation 2:53:24.320 --> 2:53:26.680 is that the Huthis themselves have committed their share of 2:53:26.760 --> 2:53:29.000 war crimes, some of which are remniscent of the very 2:53:29.040 --> 2:53:31.920 crimes committed by Israel. In December of twenty fourteen, the 2:53:31.959 --> 2:53:35.760 Houthis laid siege to Yemen's second city, Ties, leading to 2:53:35.840 --> 2:53:39.280 a humanitarian catastrophe, as this article from The Guardian lays out. 2:53:39.560 --> 2:53:42.920 Quote sincerely April, when the resistance, an alliance of local 2:53:43.000 --> 2:53:45.720 forces dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood, fought off the Houthi's 2:53:45.760 --> 2:53:48.680 attempt to control the city. The militia retaliated by cutting 2:53:48.720 --> 2:53:51.280 off roads, preventing food and medical aid from getting in. 2:53:51.720 --> 2:53:54.520 Access is only allowed through a single checkpoint dubbed the 2:53:54.640 --> 2:53:57.720 Rapha Crossing by the residents after its more famous namesake 2:53:57.800 --> 2:54:01.119 on the Egypt Gaza border. Every morning, long queues form 2:54:01.200 --> 2:54:03.480 outside the crossing by those wanting to enter the city 2:54:03.720 --> 2:54:07.520 hoothy malicious search and confiscate medicine, cooking, gas, cigarettes, bottled 2:54:07.560 --> 2:54:10.120 water or anything more than a small shopping bag of food. 2:54:10.560 --> 2:54:13.200 In order to survive. The city has for months been 2:54:13.280 --> 2:54:15.440 relying on groups of young boys and long trains of 2:54:15.480 --> 2:54:18.640 donkeys to bring its supplies via a long and arduous 2:54:18.720 --> 2:54:21.560 journey through the mountains, but donkeys alone can hardly fulfill 2:54:21.600 --> 2:54:23.760 the needs of the city. Medicine and food have all 2:54:23.840 --> 2:54:25.760 but disappeared from the market, and the prices of what 2:54:25.840 --> 2:54:28.160 are left have jumped in the last few months, pushing 2:54:28.240 --> 2:54:32.080 most of the population below the poverty line. Now the 2:54:32.160 --> 2:54:36.280 comparison between Tis and Gaza are striking, right, Like the 2:54:36.360 --> 2:54:38.000 crossing was called Rafa you know. 2:54:38.160 --> 2:54:40.959 Yeah, no, they literally named it after the crossing. 2:54:41.400 --> 2:54:43.320 Yeah, and you know, you hear a lot of the 2:54:43.320 --> 2:54:46.040 same stories, like the hospitals basically were out of you know, 2:54:46.160 --> 2:54:48.440 anything to actually treat the injured. One of the one 2:54:48.520 --> 2:54:50.800 doctor at one of the two functioning hospitals in the 2:54:50.840 --> 2:54:53.760 city told the Guardian, we can't do operations, we can't 2:54:53.760 --> 2:54:55.960 put people in intensive care. We can only patch wounds 2:54:56.000 --> 2:54:58.879 and tell the patient you are welcome to die here. Now, 2:54:59.080 --> 2:55:00.800 I want to be clear here. The other side in 2:55:00.840 --> 2:55:05.240 this conflict was inarguably even worse. The Saudi led coalition, 2:55:05.440 --> 2:55:08.480 using US weaponry, put the whole country in a state 2:55:08.560 --> 2:55:13.320 of siege that led to catastrophic famines and situations very 2:55:13.400 --> 2:55:15.520 similar and in some cases worse than what the Huthi 2:55:15.640 --> 2:55:20.040 did toties right, like this is the this I mean, 2:55:20.480 --> 2:55:24.400 it's war right. This is like unspeakable suffering compounding on 2:55:24.560 --> 2:55:25.600 unspeakable suffering. 2:55:25.800 --> 2:55:25.920 Right. 2:55:27.200 --> 2:55:30.000 You've probably heard that old saying when you stare into 2:55:30.040 --> 2:55:33.199 the abyss, the abyss stares back. And there's a corollary 2:55:33.320 --> 2:55:35.320 to that statement that I think is relevant to some 2:55:35.440 --> 2:55:37.640 of the fantasies that some people on the left have 2:55:37.920 --> 2:55:41.280 about the hoothies. When you start giving yourself up to 2:55:41.520 --> 2:55:46.400 false realities, eventually you can lose yourself entirely. And we're 2:55:46.440 --> 2:55:49.320 gonna talk a little bit about that, but first lose 2:55:49.360 --> 2:56:05.760 yourself to these products. We're back. So people like Medhurst, 2:56:05.959 --> 2:56:08.760 you know, postliked by these guys, they aren't meant to 2:56:08.879 --> 2:56:13.080 inform people about the real world. Medhurst's fans, the people 2:56:13.120 --> 2:56:16.440 who take him seriously, have departed reality in favor of 2:56:16.480 --> 2:56:19.680 a fantasy, because that fantasy world is the only place 2:56:19.720 --> 2:56:23.320 in which victory feels possible. There's a term that you 2:56:23.400 --> 2:56:25.360 and I talk about a lot garrison, coined by the 2:56:25.400 --> 2:56:28.280 author Robert Anton Wilson, that I think is useful in 2:56:28.400 --> 2:56:31.480 dealing with situations like this, and that term is reality tunnel. 2:56:31.959 --> 2:56:35.039 The concept is complex and explanations of it tend towards long, 2:56:35.160 --> 2:56:37.040 but the basic idea is that we in the modern 2:56:37.080 --> 2:56:40.400 world are all constantly flooded by information from our senses 2:56:40.440 --> 2:56:43.160 and from the different information delivery devices that we filled 2:56:43.160 --> 2:56:45.440 our world with. In order to function, we have to 2:56:45.560 --> 2:56:48.640 triage that information, to pare it away until we get 2:56:48.720 --> 2:56:51.520 to a reality that we can live inside, the fact 2:56:51.560 --> 2:56:54.240 that human beings can and perhaps inherently do. This is 2:56:54.360 --> 2:56:57.520 not necessarily bad, and in fact, I might argue that 2:56:57.600 --> 2:57:00.959 without the ability to choose and flip between different realities 2:57:01.000 --> 2:57:04.560 to change the channel, as Wilson put it, positive progress 2:57:04.640 --> 2:57:07.320 is impossible. I found this explained well in an essay 2:57:07.360 --> 2:57:11.280 on Wilson's work by Mikola Bilokonski. Quote, we can slide 2:57:11.320 --> 2:57:14.080 between reality tunnels by consciously choosing to pay attention to 2:57:14.160 --> 2:57:16.800 things we might normally ignore. It's hard at first, but 2:57:16.840 --> 2:57:19.280 as a skill that we can develop with practice. Train 2:57:19.360 --> 2:57:21.320 yourself to pay more attention to the emotions of the 2:57:21.320 --> 2:57:23.720 people you're speaking to, for instance, and you'll be surprised 2:57:23.760 --> 2:57:26.240 at how much richer the world gets. Train yourself to 2:57:26.240 --> 2:57:29.560 pay attention to your caloric intake and eating fundamentally changes. 2:57:29.920 --> 2:57:32.560 Train yourself to hear the voices of minorities, and suddenly 2:57:32.640 --> 2:57:38.080 you see racism and sexism everywhere. Now, those other reality 2:57:38.120 --> 2:57:41.040 tunnels like that you can key yourself in on are 2:57:41.120 --> 2:57:44.080 always there. They always exist, right, You just had to 2:57:44.160 --> 2:57:47.480 actually learn the filters that you existed within in order 2:57:47.560 --> 2:57:48.400 to access them. 2:57:48.480 --> 2:57:51.200 You know, whether or not you're tuned in doesn't mean 2:57:51.320 --> 2:57:52.920 like they just don't exist. 2:57:53.000 --> 2:57:57.040 They're still there. Yeah. Yeah, So again the constant you know, 2:57:57.120 --> 2:57:59.280 the fact that people can like pick and choose which 2:57:59.360 --> 2:58:02.400 reality chair can change the channel, so to speak, isn't 2:58:02.480 --> 2:58:05.640 necessarily bad and in fact is part of you know, 2:58:05.879 --> 2:58:09.520 necessary positive progress. But some people don't want to hop 2:58:09.600 --> 2:58:13.840 between tunnels and explore the dazzling variety of realities that exist. 2:58:14.280 --> 2:58:16.199 They want to pick a tunnel in which they feel 2:58:16.280 --> 2:58:19.080 comfortable and then burrow so deep into it that no 2:58:19.200 --> 2:58:21.920 other realities can find them. I want you to think 2:58:21.959 --> 2:58:24.840 of one of my favorite recent Trump World grifts, right, 2:58:25.040 --> 2:58:27.600 is these kind of this company that started putting out 2:58:27.600 --> 2:58:30.680 these like ads with an obvious AI Donald Trump or 2:58:30.760 --> 2:58:33.640 Elon Musk voice where they're like, Trump is going to 2:58:33.760 --> 2:58:36.360 change the monetary system, and if you buy these like 2:58:36.600 --> 2:58:41.000 trump Bucks debit card things or fake checks, he's going 2:58:41.080 --> 2:58:42.760 to like when he changes it, they'll be worth a 2:58:43.120 --> 2:58:45.120 ten thousand times what you put in. So if you 2:58:45.160 --> 2:58:46.800 put in two or three thousand dollars worth of this, 2:58:47.000 --> 2:58:50.040 you'll be rich. He's doing this to reward his loyal fans. 2:58:50.280 --> 2:58:52.879 He's going to like he's gonna fix everything and you'll 2:58:52.959 --> 2:58:55.879 finally be rich, right, you know you deserve to be rich, right, 2:58:56.320 --> 2:58:59.760 And a bunch of people bought these like fake promisary 2:58:59.840 --> 2:59:01.680 now and then like went to Bank of America to 2:59:01.760 --> 2:59:03.840 cash them in, and the bank was like, well, no, 2:59:04.360 --> 2:59:07.320 that's not this, this isn't real this, this is nothing 2:59:07.360 --> 2:59:10.240 at all, right, and you know, these people got fleeced. 2:59:10.280 --> 2:59:11.720 And one way to look at the people who got 2:59:11.760 --> 2:59:14.640 fleeced is like, well they're dumb, right, These people are stupid. 2:59:14.720 --> 2:59:16.640 You know, they did a stupid thing. They believed something 2:59:16.680 --> 2:59:20.360 that was obviously fake, and you can you can take 2:59:20.480 --> 2:59:22.880 that out of their story if you want. I don't 2:59:22.959 --> 2:59:27.760 think that's helpful, though. The reality is that these people 2:59:27.840 --> 2:59:31.600 represent a cautionary tale. They didn't start out believing that 2:59:31.720 --> 2:59:34.879 the guy from the Apprentice was their messiah. Their break 2:59:34.959 --> 2:59:39.240 from consensus reality began years or decades earlier, and it's 2:59:39.280 --> 2:59:41.640 going to be different for every individual person. When I 2:59:41.680 --> 2:59:44.280 think about my own family members who came to believe 2:59:44.560 --> 2:59:48.800 pretty unhinged things that you know, figures within the Republican 2:59:48.840 --> 2:59:51.760 Party or Trump himself told them. I tend to trace 2:59:52.160 --> 2:59:56.080 their break from reality back to well back to the 2:59:56.160 --> 2:59:59.240 day when the calming, charismatic voice of Ronald Reagan said 2:59:59.320 --> 3:00:02.320 this about the Iran Contraus scandal, a deal in which 3:00:02.360 --> 3:00:06.120 his administration gave Iron weapons in exchange for hostages. And 3:00:06.240 --> 3:00:09.000 this is Reagan. A few months ago, I told the 3:00:09.040 --> 3:00:11.960 American people, I did not trade arms for hostages. My 3:00:12.120 --> 3:00:14.600 heart and my best intentions tell me that's true, but 3:00:14.720 --> 3:00:16.160 the facts and the evidence tell me. 3:00:16.200 --> 3:00:16.560 It is not. 3:00:17.440 --> 3:00:22.520 Yes, And I think that line is an important moment 3:00:22.800 --> 3:00:27.320 in the shattering of what we might call reality, consensus, reality, right, 3:00:27.680 --> 3:00:31.080 The undeniable, actual truth is that Ronald Reagan and many 3:00:31.120 --> 3:00:33.920 members of his administration committed high crimes and light about it. 3:00:34.320 --> 3:00:37.480 But Reagan's supporters, his fans, people like my parents, loved 3:00:37.560 --> 3:00:40.880 him too much to accept this, and old Ronnie offered 3:00:40.920 --> 3:00:43.640 them a way out, ignore the facts and the evidence 3:00:43.840 --> 3:00:46.480 and embraced the deeper truth of his heart and his 3:00:46.640 --> 3:00:50.040 best intentions. And in that moment, I think that's where 3:00:50.080 --> 3:00:52.440 a lot of Americans, who are now in an even 3:00:52.480 --> 3:00:56.560 more unhinged place, started burrowing down and started tunneling away 3:00:56.600 --> 3:00:58.680 from their friends and family and towards the heart of 3:00:58.800 --> 3:01:02.120 something dark. As the years went on, the consequences of 3:01:02.160 --> 3:01:05.960 many Reagan era economic and social policies became impossible to ignore. 3:01:06.400 --> 3:01:09.840 No wealth trickled down, Mourning did not return to America. 3:01:10.240 --> 3:01:12.640 The promise of the Internet boom yielded to the dot 3:01:12.720 --> 3:01:15.800 com bubble bursting September eleventh sobered us up from the 3:01:15.840 --> 3:01:18.879 hallucination of permanent victory. After the end of the Cold War, 3:01:19.240 --> 3:01:22.400 the housing market crashed, the hideous reality of climate change 3:01:22.400 --> 3:01:25.840 became unavoidable, the promise of a bright future faded, and 3:01:25.920 --> 3:01:29.280 people buried themselves deeper in fantasies to avoid oblique and 3:01:29.440 --> 3:01:34.039 empty horizon. And all throughout this the Left prided itself 3:01:34.160 --> 3:01:37.520 on a sort of logical sobriety, a willingness to stare 3:01:37.600 --> 3:01:40.480 into the abyss, to accept the reality of our dire moment, 3:01:40.760 --> 3:01:44.160 and to propose radical solutions. Yet one by one, the 3:01:44.240 --> 3:01:47.840 different protest movements put out by the left flopped and fizzled. 3:01:48.120 --> 3:01:51.600 Promising organizers and ideological leaders were revealed as frauds or 3:01:51.640 --> 3:01:56.160 became corrupted by the system. Capitalism failed to fall or reform, 3:01:56.840 --> 3:01:59.920 and rather than confront the dire complex reality that leaves 3:02:00.160 --> 3:02:04.240 us in, increasing numbers of leftists found alternative realities, served 3:02:04.360 --> 3:02:08.720 eagerly by an alliance of conman and paid propagandists. Now, 3:02:09.720 --> 3:02:13.240 leftists have always been just as vulnerable to vicious fantasy 3:02:13.320 --> 3:02:16.760 as conservatives. This has proven well in the last century. 3:02:16.800 --> 3:02:20.439 There's a case of a Marxist academic named Malcolm Caldwell, 3:02:20.800 --> 3:02:23.760 who I think is which I think is valuable depending 3:02:23.800 --> 3:02:27.800 on who you talk to about Caldwell. He's the Scottish academic. 3:02:27.920 --> 3:02:32.400 He was a college professor, apparently a pretty good economist, 3:02:32.920 --> 3:02:38.560 and he also had this weird thing for agrarian communist movements, 3:02:38.680 --> 3:02:40.840 which he thought were He believed that there was this 3:02:41.000 --> 3:02:44.080 like massive global famine coming and he believed that these 3:02:44.240 --> 3:02:47.960 like back to the Land Marxist movements sweeping Southeast Asia 3:02:48.000 --> 3:02:50.960 where the only way forward for a lot of humanity. 3:02:51.040 --> 3:02:53.320 He was this like third worldist. A lot of his 3:02:53.440 --> 3:02:55.800 belief was kind of centering that, you know, the United 3:02:55.840 --> 3:02:58.879 States was the source of all evil in the world effectively, 3:02:59.320 --> 3:03:01.520 but this kind of led him to he became a 3:03:01.640 --> 3:03:04.520 stan of every communist state, even the ones that were 3:03:04.560 --> 3:03:06.800 in conflict with each other. He traveled to like North 3:03:06.879 --> 3:03:09.760 Korea and came back like talking about all of the 3:03:09.840 --> 3:03:13.400 wonderful accomplishments of Juche ideology. You know, he was in 3:03:13.520 --> 3:03:15.400 love with Vietnam, and he was also in love with 3:03:15.560 --> 3:03:19.280 Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. And that's kind of part of 3:03:19.320 --> 3:03:22.039 the evidence that like he had entered a reality tunnel 3:03:22.080 --> 3:03:24.080 that had taken him away from any kind of logical 3:03:24.160 --> 3:03:28.640 reality because like Cambodia and Vietnam went to war, right, 3:03:28.800 --> 3:03:32.760 Vietnam invaded Cambodia, Like these these two were not like 3:03:33.000 --> 3:03:36.160 communist fellow travelers on the same side of a conflict. 3:03:36.959 --> 3:03:39.200 Whenever this would get brought up to Caldwell, when he'd 3:03:39.360 --> 3:03:42.280 argue about, you know, Vietnam and the conflict that Vietnam 3:03:42.360 --> 3:03:44.800 was having with Cambodia, or he you know, people would 3:03:44.800 --> 3:03:46.600 try to argue with him about the realities of the 3:03:46.680 --> 3:03:49.320 Khmer Rouge system, he would just kind of shut down, 3:03:49.720 --> 3:03:52.800 like he was he was, yeah, he couldn't talk about 3:03:52.840 --> 3:03:56.560 it right now. Eventually, Caldwell, because he's an academic, he 3:03:56.680 --> 3:03:58.760 travels to a lot of these countries and you know, 3:03:58.840 --> 3:04:01.040 it's fine. He travels to the Ubas, he gets a 3:04:01.080 --> 3:04:02.840 tour there. He travels to North Korea, he gets a 3:04:02.920 --> 3:04:05.720 tour there, he gets a tour at Vietnam. That's all fine. 3:04:06.200 --> 3:04:09.000 All of those states are sane states, right, which is 3:04:09.040 --> 3:04:11.400 not to say that like they don't do bad things, 3:04:11.480 --> 3:04:14.080 but they're they're run by people who like, there's no 3:04:14.200 --> 3:04:17.119 benefit in us to anything bad happening to this guy 3:04:17.200 --> 3:04:19.360 who's out there in the West writing nice things about 3:04:19.400 --> 3:04:23.360 our regimes. Right, Polepot was not sane. The Khmer Rouge 3:04:23.480 --> 3:04:24.120 was not sane. 3:04:24.760 --> 3:04:26.039 So he goes to. 3:04:26.160 --> 3:04:29.600 Cambodia with two American journalists, one of whom had been 3:04:29.760 --> 3:04:33.280 in Cambodia in the years prior to the Khmer Rouge 3:04:33.320 --> 3:04:36.800 overthrow of the US backed government of Law Nol and 3:04:36.920 --> 3:04:39.680 knew the country well. And when she got there, they 3:04:39.720 --> 3:04:41.640 had all these arguments where he was like, I think 3:04:41.680 --> 3:04:43.800 the revolution is working. You know, it's not perfect, but 3:04:43.879 --> 3:04:47.240 it needs its time. Look at all the wonderful accomplishments already. 3:04:47.480 --> 3:04:50.280 And she would point out, I have been to these 3:04:50.400 --> 3:04:54.680 cities years ago, and there's no people anymore. All of 3:04:54.800 --> 3:04:58.600 the people are gone. Something is terribly wrong, and he 3:04:58.800 --> 3:05:01.360 just couldn't listen to her. So they're there a couple 3:05:01.400 --> 3:05:04.240 of weeks and he gets invited to have a meeting 3:05:04.480 --> 3:05:07.360 with Polepot, and you know, he has a meeting with 3:05:07.480 --> 3:05:10.680 him right after these journalists do, and he comes back 3:05:10.720 --> 3:05:13.160 from it really excited, being like, we had a great talk. 3:05:13.560 --> 3:05:16.279 He's such a smart man. You know, we talked about economics. 3:05:16.600 --> 3:05:19.080 I feel really he's invited me back next year, you know. 3:05:19.160 --> 3:05:21.960 And by the way, within like weeks of this, Vietnam 3:05:22.040 --> 3:05:25.080 invades and forces Polepot out of the capitol, right, Like 3:05:25.400 --> 3:05:30.320 the state of the Khmer Rouge was deeply precarious at 3:05:30.360 --> 3:05:33.440 this point. But he comes out super optimistic, and then 3:05:33.520 --> 3:05:36.760 later that night a gunman shoots him to death and 3:05:36.879 --> 3:05:40.040 then shoots himself to death. It is really unclear to 3:05:40.120 --> 3:05:42.400 this day. It's a bit of a mystery what happened. 3:05:42.879 --> 3:05:47.160 The most likely explanation is that the Khmer Rouge wanted 3:05:47.240 --> 3:05:51.480 to pin the murder of a leftist Western academic on 3:05:51.680 --> 3:05:56.360 Vietnam to try and generate international outrage against Vietnam who 3:05:56.480 --> 3:06:01.240 was about to invade. It's possible Vietnam killed him for 3:06:01.480 --> 3:06:03.800 but I don't really see a benefit to Vietnam and 3:06:04.000 --> 3:06:08.920 doing that again. They invade right after this. It seems 3:06:09.040 --> 3:06:12.160 like one of the journalists who was there basically was 3:06:12.200 --> 3:06:13.960 like a pollpot, was out of his fucking mind. Of 3:06:14.040 --> 3:06:16.120 course he would do this. There's no like, there's no 3:06:16.240 --> 3:06:19.640 trying to lay out like the rationality behind this man's actions. 3:06:20.000 --> 3:06:23.959 I think what's more interesting is Caldwell had been presented 3:06:24.040 --> 3:06:27.960 with plenty of evidence that the Khmer Rouge regime was 3:06:28.040 --> 3:06:31.520 deeply evil and violent, and in fact, he had published 3:06:31.560 --> 3:06:34.160 right before he went over there, he published an article 3:06:34.320 --> 3:06:37.680 about like the successes of their agrarian reforms and the 3:06:38.040 --> 3:06:41.440 Khmer Rouge government official that he cited in that paper 3:06:41.560 --> 3:06:43.520 that's like the basis of most of his claims about 3:06:43.520 --> 3:06:45.560 how well the reforms had worked. With it like a 3:06:45.640 --> 3:06:48.840 couple of weeks before he arrived in Cambodia was tortured 3:06:48.920 --> 3:06:51.800 to death in the S twenty one prison. Well, that's 3:06:51.840 --> 3:06:54.880 not a great sign, not a great sign anyway. I 3:06:55.680 --> 3:06:57.440 bring this guy up because I think he's maybe the 3:06:57.480 --> 3:07:00.760 best example of like the damage that you do to 3:07:00.840 --> 3:07:05.000 yourself when you let yourself fall into these tunnels. Because Caldwell, 3:07:05.040 --> 3:07:06.840 he's not one of these like gray zone guys. He 3:07:06.879 --> 3:07:10.560 didn't make a bunch of money being a stand for dictatorships. 3:07:10.959 --> 3:07:13.280 He seems to everyone who talked, even the people who 3:07:13.360 --> 3:07:15.640 thought he was like out of his mind and his 3:07:15.720 --> 3:07:18.039 opinions on the Khmer Rouge agree he was a really 3:07:18.240 --> 3:07:20.720 nice man. He was a family man, he was a 3:07:20.800 --> 3:07:26.480 good teacher. He just completely left reality in this one thing, 3:07:26.560 --> 3:07:27.840 and it led him to oblivion. 3:07:28.000 --> 3:07:30.920 You know, I've been thinking about a lot of similar 3:07:30.959 --> 3:07:34.040 stuff in terms of like what Israel's currently doing, and 3:07:34.160 --> 3:07:37.640 like there's so many people who ares vocally supportive every 3:07:37.680 --> 3:07:41.279 single action that's being done. And there's even been attacks 3:07:41.400 --> 3:07:46.760 where I've seen people like vietnamly uh like defend what happened. 3:07:46.760 --> 3:07:49.640 It's like, no, this was like a necessary strike. It 3:07:49.720 --> 3:07:51.920 it did for all these reasons, blah blah blah blah blah. 3:07:52.360 --> 3:07:54.520 Even if even if someone like net and Yahoo then 3:07:54.600 --> 3:07:56.320 like like comes out and says like actually, no, this 3:07:56.440 --> 3:07:59.280 was like quote unquote like terrible accident or whatever, there 3:07:59.280 --> 3:08:03.280 will still be people defending it. And like, I don't 3:08:03.360 --> 3:08:07.760 know if all of these people are literally like bloodthirsty, 3:08:07.879 --> 3:08:10.040 Like I don't know if they actually really want to 3:08:10.160 --> 3:08:14.320 see like everyone in Gaza killed I'm sure there's there's 3:08:14.760 --> 3:08:18.360 maybe some people who are like just bad, but I 3:08:18.480 --> 3:08:21.920 think the reality tunnel version, I think is a lot 3:08:22.000 --> 3:08:25.560 more useful for understanding how there's so many otherwise very 3:08:25.680 --> 3:08:30.080 like normal, normal people who feel totally fine about cheering 3:08:30.160 --> 3:08:32.440 on the actions of the State of Israel right now 3:08:32.800 --> 3:08:34.920 as there you know, as the death told just gets 3:08:35.000 --> 3:08:37.959 higher and higher and higher every single day. No, it's 3:08:37.959 --> 3:08:42.520 certainly been something I've I've thought about very often these 3:08:42.600 --> 3:08:45.440 past few months, as I as I'm sure many other 3:08:45.480 --> 3:08:48.000 people are, you know, both staring into the abyss on 3:08:48.320 --> 3:08:50.920 on Twitter dot com wherever everyone has a take. But 3:08:51.000 --> 3:08:52.960 then also you know, if if you're ever going out 3:08:52.959 --> 3:08:54.800 to any like if you're ever going into any of 3:08:54.840 --> 3:08:57.280 these protests, there will probably be like a group of 3:08:57.360 --> 3:09:02.320 Zionist counter protesters yelling something. And it's it's a really 3:09:02.360 --> 3:09:03.280 tricky thing to navigate. 3:09:04.520 --> 3:09:08.720 Yeah, it is, like it because like, and I guess 3:09:08.800 --> 3:09:12.360 what the scary question to me is, like, how do 3:09:12.440 --> 3:09:15.200 you communicate with someone who is not living in the 3:09:15.280 --> 3:09:18.760 same reality, And like, totally I don't think you really can. 3:09:19.320 --> 3:09:22.280 I think sometimes I know sometimes because I've seen it happen. 3:09:22.680 --> 3:09:26.560 Sometimes people just get out of that alternate reality on 3:09:26.640 --> 3:09:29.879 their own. Right, that does happen, thank god, but it's 3:09:29.920 --> 3:09:33.320 not like reliable that it happens. And I have, you know, 3:09:33.400 --> 3:09:36.840 as someone who has been in this space of researching cults, 3:09:36.879 --> 3:09:41.240 of researching disinformation for years now, I'm not aware of 3:09:41.320 --> 3:09:45.240 any reliable ways to break people out of these now 3:09:45.560 --> 3:09:48.280 you know, these these tunnels when they get themselves in. 3:09:48.440 --> 3:09:51.040 And that's that's the scariest thing to me. Right, there's 3:09:51.160 --> 3:09:53.440 there's a number of people. I don't think it's huge 3:09:53.480 --> 3:09:56.280 in an electoral sense, but it's probably thousands or tens 3:09:56.280 --> 3:09:58.920 of thousands of people who now believe that the Eisenhower 3:09:59.040 --> 3:10:01.400 is either badly damned or at the bottom of the sea, 3:10:01.720 --> 3:10:04.120 and they will keep believing that the same way that 3:10:04.320 --> 3:10:07.039 like a chunk of people believe that when they look 3:10:07.120 --> 3:10:10.240 up and see clouds, every cloud they see is like 3:10:10.959 --> 3:10:14.080 poison the US government shot out into the sky using 3:10:14.160 --> 3:10:17.880 our secret planes to murder people with fucking whatever. I 3:10:17.920 --> 3:10:20.680 don't know it's anyway, or the. 3:10:20.720 --> 3:10:23.879 Belief that literally ever university in Gaza has been secretly 3:10:23.879 --> 3:10:25.199 turned into a military. 3:10:24.840 --> 3:10:27.119 Base, right, yeah, yeah, exactly. 3:10:27.680 --> 3:10:30.600 It's They're like underground tunnels. It's like, you know, it's 3:10:30.600 --> 3:10:33.400 all of all of all of these things that it's 3:10:33.480 --> 3:10:35.440 not just like a I don't know if this switch 3:10:35.480 --> 3:10:38.640 happens immediately. I don't think it does. They're they're there. 3:10:38.959 --> 3:10:41.160 There may be like a tipping point. It is often 3:10:41.200 --> 3:10:44.600 a very gradual shift into different reality tunnels, and then 3:10:44.640 --> 3:10:48.000 you don't realize how far you are in one until 3:10:48.080 --> 3:10:50.160 you're like fully in it. And then in that case 3:10:50.240 --> 3:10:52.600 you probably don't even realize yourself. People on the outside 3:10:52.879 --> 3:10:55.440 will point out, oh wow, this is this is uh, 3:10:55.560 --> 3:10:59.520 this is some interesting beliefs you have suddenly fallen into. Yeah, 3:11:00.120 --> 3:11:02.320 but it it doesn't, It doesn't happen overnight. 3:11:02.400 --> 3:11:02.960 It is it is. 3:11:03.320 --> 3:11:05.440 It is a slow shift in a lot of cases. 3:11:06.000 --> 3:11:08.560 And yeah, laying out you know, quote unquote facts and 3:11:08.720 --> 3:11:11.800 logic often cases does not help at all and will 3:11:11.879 --> 3:11:15.240 actually hurt. It will produce a backfire effect. That's not 3:11:15.320 --> 3:11:17.520 the case for everybody, but that is the case for 3:11:17.600 --> 3:11:20.680 a lot of people. And it's easy to discount, you know, 3:11:20.920 --> 3:11:24.039 people yelling horrible things that you at a protest. It's 3:11:24.040 --> 3:11:28.320 easy to discount people you know saying horrible things on Twitter. 3:11:28.720 --> 3:11:31.880 But it's more frustrating when it's like you're on who 3:11:31.920 --> 3:11:36.360 you like previously like had a good relationship with And yeah, no, 3:11:36.520 --> 3:11:38.520 I mean this this this kind of reminds me of like, 3:11:39.280 --> 3:11:42.000 you know, attempts at QAnon and deprogramming back in like 3:11:42.040 --> 3:11:44.880 twenty nineteen, where you know, we had this influx of 3:11:45.040 --> 3:11:49.360 influx of older people and boomers and sometimes just like 3:11:50.160 --> 3:11:52.680 not super old people either also just like like moms 3:11:52.720 --> 3:11:55.520 in their thirties who started like leaving all this stuff 3:11:56.000 --> 3:12:00.320 and cutting them off from you know, contact with you 3:12:00.520 --> 3:12:03.920 or other people doesn't help obviously, but they can also 3:12:03.920 --> 3:12:06.600 be really hard to maintain, like a good relationship. And yeah, 3:12:06.840 --> 3:12:09.320 it's a weird balance of being able to provide a 3:12:09.400 --> 3:12:12.840 little bit of like compassion to someone and not completely 3:12:12.840 --> 3:12:15.560 cut them off while also maintaining your own personal boundaries. 3:12:15.879 --> 3:12:17.680 It's a really tricky thing. But in a lot of 3:12:17.720 --> 3:12:20.640 the cases of the QAnon stuff, all the most successful 3:12:20.760 --> 3:12:22.480 things that I've heard about people getting out of it, 3:12:23.000 --> 3:12:27.480 it did require a line, like there had to be 3:12:27.600 --> 3:12:33.080 some connecting thread to the person, and over time that 3:12:33.280 --> 3:12:36.360 thread could be pulled upon and maybe the person would 3:12:36.440 --> 3:12:38.640 use that thread as like as like a crutch when 3:12:39.480 --> 3:12:42.920 the reality so slowly started to crumble around them and 3:12:43.160 --> 3:12:45.879 it's really tricky and I don't have any good solutions 3:12:45.920 --> 3:12:48.640 for this. Nobody does. Anyone who does say they do 3:12:49.400 --> 3:12:51.720 is also a grifter who's lying and trying to make money. 3:12:53.000 --> 3:12:55.440 Yeah, I will, I will agree with you. The closest 3:12:55.520 --> 3:12:59.480 we come to there being a solution is don't cut 3:12:59.560 --> 3:13:02.039 off time with the person. I mean, unless you have Obviously, 3:13:02.120 --> 3:13:04.200 there are some things that people can come to believe 3:13:04.400 --> 3:13:06.360 and advocate for that you have to, like, I'm not 3:13:06.440 --> 3:13:09.040 saying that that that line doesn't exist. Like I had 3:13:09.080 --> 3:13:11.240 someone reach out about a family member who had started 3:13:11.280 --> 3:13:15.440 to believe some conspiracy stuff regarding extra terrestrials that was 3:13:15.520 --> 3:13:18.440 like obviously untrue and it worried them, And I was like, well, look, 3:13:18.920 --> 3:13:20.240 you know, you don't have to tell them that you 3:13:20.520 --> 3:13:22.240 believe them. You can say like, I don't, you know, 3:13:22.720 --> 3:13:24.400 really feel the same way you do about this, but 3:13:24.480 --> 3:13:26.480 I'm always down to talk about it, right or like 3:13:26.640 --> 3:13:29.080 you know, I'm always you know, here to to listen 3:13:29.120 --> 3:13:30.720 if you want to talk about this and let him 3:13:30.760 --> 3:13:33.320 know that like they have a connection still if you 3:13:33.400 --> 3:13:35.240 make sure that there's like still a way they can 3:13:35.320 --> 3:13:37.800 get out of that tunnel and back up to something 3:13:37.840 --> 3:13:39.680 that resembles reality. Maybe they will. 3:13:40.000 --> 3:13:44.720 You know, yeah, I I really wish Robert Anti Wilson 3:13:45.240 --> 3:13:50.120 could have seen the twenty era internet. I'm sure he 3:13:50.160 --> 3:13:51.160 would have had some thoughts. 3:13:52.080 --> 3:13:54.440 He would have had some fascinating things to write about it. 3:13:54.560 --> 3:13:57.680 Yeah, well this is this has been an exciting tale. 3:13:57.800 --> 3:14:01.640 Yes, indeed, so I don't know aircraft carrier down. We 3:14:01.720 --> 3:14:03.120 did it, Joe, Yeah, we did it. 3:14:03.240 --> 3:14:03.400 Joe. 3:14:03.800 --> 3:14:07.040 Go destroy the USS Eisenhower in your own life, just 3:14:07.200 --> 3:14:09.600 like the bake Koothies. Pretend did. 3:14:23.160 --> 3:14:23.440 This is? 3:14:23.560 --> 3:14:26.600 It could happen here a daily podcast and this might 3:14:26.720 --> 3:14:31.800 be our annual oh my god episode. And we have 3:14:32.040 --> 3:14:36.120 Robert and Garet and I am also here, Sophie, Hi, Garrett. 3:14:36.560 --> 3:14:39.080 We've been chasing the high of the come episode for 3:14:39.160 --> 3:14:42.040 more than a year, so let's try this. 3:14:43.120 --> 3:14:45.560 Yeah, so, you know, last week we all got some 3:14:45.680 --> 3:14:48.400 really exciting news. The Rule of Law has found Donald 3:14:48.440 --> 3:14:52.440 Trump guilty on thirty four counts. So that's exciting. You can, 3:14:52.560 --> 3:14:55.080 of course google Trump Rule thirty four to learn more. 3:14:55.280 --> 3:14:57.119 Which was, you know, a joke. I saw a lot 3:14:57.480 --> 3:15:01.959 online and then I wanted to actually see what would 3:15:02.000 --> 3:15:02.960 happen if I did that? 3:15:03.360 --> 3:15:06.160 And then that turned into like that's evidence of mental illness. 3:15:07.440 --> 3:15:12.080 Well nobody does that, and then it turned into like 3:15:12.200 --> 3:15:17.240 five days of work that's further evidence. So that is 3:15:17.280 --> 3:15:20.480 what we're doing today. Hey, this is Gere from the Future, 3:15:20.640 --> 3:15:24.200 just cutting in to clarify one little aspect. When doing 3:15:24.400 --> 3:15:27.200 the legal review for this episode, we noticed that we 3:15:27.280 --> 3:15:30.360 never actually defined what rule thirty four is. Now, I 3:15:30.480 --> 3:15:32.520 assumed if you're listening to this podcast, you know what 3:15:32.680 --> 3:15:34.680 rule thirty four is, But just in case you do not, 3:15:35.520 --> 3:15:39.120 Rule thirty four is part of the memified Rules of 3:15:39.240 --> 3:15:42.080 the Internet. It originally comes from a two husand through webcomic, 3:15:42.560 --> 3:15:46.200 but Rule thirty four states that if it exists, there 3:15:46.320 --> 3:15:49.360 is porn of it, meaning that you can find porn 3:15:49.560 --> 3:15:53.280 of anything on the Internet, whether that be cooking, bowling 3:15:53.520 --> 3:15:56.200 or in this case Donald J. Trump. And you know, 3:15:56.360 --> 3:15:59.720 as someone who is just reviewed basically all of the 3:16:00.120 --> 3:16:02.280 old J. Trump pornography that I could find on the 3:16:02.360 --> 3:16:04.760 Internet these past five days, I did try to keep 3:16:04.800 --> 3:16:07.520 this episode roughly PG thirteen. We kind of cross that 3:16:07.680 --> 3:16:10.360 boundary a little bit. So I do think it's you know, 3:16:10.600 --> 3:16:13.840 probably wise to give some sort of general sexualized content 3:16:13.920 --> 3:16:16.680 warning here. But again I tried, I try to keep 3:16:16.720 --> 3:16:20.840 things as tame as I can, you know, all things considered. Anyway, 3:16:20.959 --> 3:16:24.760 back to the episode, I started my journey by doing 3:16:24.800 --> 3:16:27.280 the most obvious thing I could think of, which is 3:16:27.360 --> 3:16:30.000 opening a virtual PC and using Google through the tour 3:16:30.080 --> 3:16:32.880 browser to search Trump rule thirty four. 3:16:33.760 --> 3:16:36.720 No, this is already sounding like a great, great life 3:16:36.800 --> 3:16:38.640 choice when you have to make all of. 3:16:38.760 --> 3:16:41.800 Those steps to search something, well, because. 3:16:41.560 --> 3:16:43.680 I don't what all of my like entire computer and 3:16:43.680 --> 3:16:45.720 search results just to get completely fucked over for the 3:16:45.800 --> 3:16:49.440 next like week or two, which they might just already 3:16:49.480 --> 3:16:51.520 because this is all in a Google doc now, so 3:16:51.680 --> 3:16:55.200 it's already being mine, you know. Yeah, so I'm already 3:16:55.240 --> 3:16:58.720 fucked very similar to the way that we'll be discussing today. 3:16:58.879 --> 3:17:03.400 So wow. The first result when you google Trump rule 3:17:03.480 --> 3:17:06.760 thirty four is the website's rule thirty four dot xxx. 3:17:06.920 --> 3:17:09.440 So here we go, just straight to the source. I 3:17:09.480 --> 3:17:11.600 clicked on the link, and as the page loaded, I 3:17:11.800 --> 3:17:14.720 was shocked by what I saw, or more accurately, what 3:17:14.879 --> 3:17:19.280 I didn't see. There was far less Trump porn than 3:17:19.360 --> 3:17:22.520 what I was expecting. That not even like a single 3:17:22.640 --> 3:17:24.119 full page of results. 3:17:24.520 --> 3:17:26.959 See this is what Joe Biden's taken from. 3:17:26.879 --> 3:17:30.320 US only thirty one pieces of artwork came up in 3:17:30.400 --> 3:17:33.440 the search results, seven of which didn't even feature Donald 3:17:33.440 --> 3:17:39.560 Trump and only used to name. That's right, But many 3:17:39.600 --> 3:17:42.760 of them just didn't even have Trump and only used 3:17:42.920 --> 3:17:46.160 his name as like a joke tag for typically some 3:17:46.320 --> 3:17:48.760 sort of like furry pornography, which is can it be 3:17:48.800 --> 3:17:51.000 a very common trend for the rest of this episode? 3:17:52.280 --> 3:17:55.920 So what would you expect the first results to contain 3:17:56.120 --> 3:18:02.320 on the website? Rule thirty four do xxx god I Garrison. 3:18:02.360 --> 3:18:07.040 I don't even know. I'm imagining a lot of like 3:18:07.120 --> 3:18:10.720 you know how, there's those like political cartoons like yeah, 3:18:10.760 --> 3:18:12.600 I forget. I think the guy's name Ben Garrison. I 3:18:12.640 --> 3:18:15.439 think it is who like always draws Trump as like shredded. 3:18:16.520 --> 3:18:18.400 I guess that's kind of what I expect. 3:18:18.840 --> 3:18:21.800 There are certainly some of those, but the very first 3:18:22.080 --> 3:18:28.120 piece features a glossy rendering of Vladimir Putin's head with 3:18:28.320 --> 3:18:31.280 a quote. This isn't me just quoting myself. I don't 3:18:31.280 --> 3:18:32.800 know why I said a quote, but it's what I 3:18:32.879 --> 3:18:36.240 described as a penal like object looming in front, and 3:18:36.320 --> 3:18:38.120 I believe this is alluded to be Donald Trump. 3:18:38.520 --> 3:18:41.240 I feel like the listener needs to know that Garrison 3:18:41.560 --> 3:18:46.440 for reasons that surpass all understanding, is wearing a fitted 3:18:46.520 --> 3:18:49.680 shirt and tie. As they explain this to us, this 3:18:49.840 --> 3:18:52.800 is serious and ambiance you are not getting as a listener. 3:18:53.080 --> 3:18:54.440 This is a serious topic for me. 3:18:54.959 --> 3:18:56.280 I can see that. 3:18:56.959 --> 3:19:00.320 See, Like I was thinking, like Trump fucking a flag. 3:19:00.959 --> 3:19:03.880 But we'll get some flag action later, don't worry. 3:19:04.240 --> 3:19:04.960 I'm so glad. 3:19:05.879 --> 3:19:07.120 Yeah, So there we go. 3:19:08.040 --> 3:19:10.039 The next image is actually gonna be a little bit 3:19:10.080 --> 3:19:14.920 more useful in kind of forecasting some trends that we're 3:19:14.959 --> 3:19:17.879 gonna be going over. The next image is Donald Trump 3:19:18.000 --> 3:19:20.640 in the makeup and lingerie engaged in some sort of 3:19:20.959 --> 3:19:23.800 what I would describe as an interracial cuckhold scenario in 3:19:23.840 --> 3:19:24.440 the White House. 3:19:25.240 --> 3:19:26.520 Not the best. 3:19:26.920 --> 3:19:30.199 This is where we're gonna start start seeing some worrying trends. 3:19:30.280 --> 3:19:33.240 And part of the difficulty in this episode was like 3:19:34.120 --> 3:19:36.800 I can't just show everyone all this pornography. That would 3:19:36.800 --> 3:19:38.840 be like an HR violation. And I'm not gonna have 3:19:38.920 --> 3:19:42.960 the editor, you know, cut together weird poorn audio like, 3:19:43.360 --> 3:19:45.959 so it's it's all I often to describe this with word. 3:19:46.200 --> 3:19:49.560 But I did find one the tie sense the tie. 3:19:49.920 --> 3:19:52.400 But I did find one work around is I collected 3:19:52.520 --> 3:19:56.120 all of the pictures of just Trump's face, divorced from 3:19:56.160 --> 3:19:58.640 any other context of the image. I will actually share 3:19:58.680 --> 3:20:01.240 the picture of his face across some of these some 3:20:01.320 --> 3:20:04.240 of these artworks. Okay, so here is here is image 3:20:04.320 --> 3:20:04.880 number one? 3:20:05.280 --> 3:20:07.800 Oh honey, not great? 3:20:09.120 --> 3:20:09.840 Is that not like that? 3:20:10.040 --> 3:20:12.800 So this is not I need to qualify here. This 3:20:12.920 --> 3:20:15.560 is not like a political cartoon. This is somebody trying 3:20:15.600 --> 3:20:16.039 to get off. 3:20:16.120 --> 3:20:19.000 Okay, correct, Almost none of these are going to be 3:20:19.080 --> 3:20:22.520 political cartoons. Great, the very last one is, but all 3:20:22.600 --> 3:20:24.560 of these are just just regular artwork. 3:20:24.920 --> 3:20:27.200 I feel like I have to comment on this with 3:20:27.320 --> 3:20:30.200 a reference that Garrison might be several decades past your time, 3:20:30.240 --> 3:20:33.600 but he looks like Missus doubt fire. He looks like 3:20:33.760 --> 3:20:36.200 Robin Williams and drag a little bit. 3:20:36.280 --> 3:20:38.280 I would say Williams pulls it off a little bit better. 3:20:38.879 --> 3:20:41.520 Absolutely, I mean Robin Williams could pull off anything. 3:20:41.920 --> 3:20:45.720 I just don't think that lipstick works for Trump's complexion. 3:20:46.000 --> 3:20:47.680 No, And I think it's fair. 3:20:47.879 --> 3:20:51.879 His eyeshadows a little heavy, There's definitely some some troubling. 3:20:51.920 --> 3:20:53.720 Hair look good, Hair's looking great. 3:20:54.320 --> 3:20:58.680 Side note is the image framed behind him also Trump? 3:20:59.040 --> 3:21:01.960 Yes, that's him? That's Trump as some sort of Mussolini 3:21:02.120 --> 3:21:05.200 type figure. He's got like the Roman laurel wreath in 3:21:05.280 --> 3:21:08.360 his hair he does, which I believe that Trump has 3:21:08.400 --> 3:21:10.840 a photo like that in his house. That that actually 3:21:11.920 --> 3:21:13.160 all right, that could be real. 3:21:13.840 --> 3:21:15.480 Next one, yeah, we have to get. 3:21:15.560 --> 3:21:17.560 We have to get through a few of these. So 3:21:18.080 --> 3:21:21.200 there is there is multiple tentacle pieces, which I'm sure 3:21:21.240 --> 3:21:24.640 we could all all guess, right, that's that seems pretty obvious. 3:21:25.080 --> 3:21:27.600 There is a drawing of Putin and Trump engaged in 3:21:27.640 --> 3:21:30.360 what I would describe as old man yawi, which is uh, 3:21:32.400 --> 3:21:36.000 I'm gonna need to see that two parts, and one 3:21:36.040 --> 3:21:38.879 of one of these images is actually animated into a gift. 3:21:39.120 --> 3:21:41.760 So that's exciting competent though, you know, I actually kind 3:21:41.800 --> 3:21:44.840 of like those as caricatures of both men. You really get, 3:21:45.440 --> 3:21:47.520 you get, you get a lot of personality, and I 3:21:47.760 --> 3:21:50.640 do feel like that's how Vladimir Putin looks when he's coming. 3:21:51.160 --> 3:21:52.240 It's it's not bad. 3:21:52.440 --> 3:21:59.920 Uh oh, I don't think about that, Jesus Christ. 3:22:01.440 --> 3:22:04.000 Two fun comments underneath this one is this is actually 3:22:04.080 --> 3:22:06.840 so hot hashtag mega and this is why isn't to 3:22:06.840 --> 3:22:07.800 our president anymore? 3:22:08.520 --> 3:22:09.000 Perhaps? 3:22:10.640 --> 3:22:12.879 Oh okay. 3:22:13.280 --> 3:22:15.200 We also we also have Trump in a in like 3:22:15.280 --> 3:22:18.640 a dungeon orgy comprised of horror movie characters and female 3:22:18.680 --> 3:22:23.080 pop stars. An image posted the day after the election 3:22:23.200 --> 3:22:26.720 in twenty sixteen, there is Trump in his suit having 3:22:26.800 --> 3:22:30.039 sex with an anime girl wearing a Confederate battle flag 3:22:30.120 --> 3:22:32.840 bikini and cowboy hat. This is back dropped by a 3:22:32.879 --> 3:22:35.040 big American flag and the Confederate girl has a make 3:22:35.120 --> 3:22:37.320 America Great again butt tattoos. So getting some kind of 3:22:37.320 --> 3:22:40.960 conflicting messages there. But this Trump face is really not great. 3:22:41.080 --> 3:22:45.200 I really don't like it. See yeah, his eyes early 3:22:45.240 --> 3:22:48.200 squished together. In a lot of these, he's giving a 3:22:48.280 --> 3:22:51.160 thumbs up. I would say about half the images he's 3:22:51.240 --> 3:22:53.760 giving you know where that you know where that thumb's 3:22:54.160 --> 3:22:56.600 about to be right, Like that's part of what makes 3:22:56.640 --> 3:22:57.360 this unsettling. 3:22:57.760 --> 3:23:00.960 I really appreciate in this one that for his fingerprint, 3:23:01.080 --> 3:23:03.080 it's just like a spiral swirl. 3:23:03.560 --> 3:23:04.720 Yeah that's this. 3:23:04.959 --> 3:23:07.480 Yeah, not the best one, read us some comments. 3:23:07.840 --> 3:23:10.600 The comments for this one are quite good. Quote. I 3:23:10.680 --> 3:23:13.280 want to see more thick or flat blonde wife who's 3:23:13.320 --> 3:23:16.039 wearing a cowboy hat. I want to help make America 3:23:16.160 --> 3:23:19.879 to be great. This turned me on bigley and frankly. 3:23:19.840 --> 3:23:23.720 Okay, you've buried the lead, which is that I want 3:23:23.760 --> 3:23:26.720 to help America to be great was posted by hex 3:23:26.840 --> 3:23:31.560 Maniac undersco or poke or yeah, I'm guessing this is 3:23:31.640 --> 3:23:37.200 some sort of Pokemon obsessed slut witch. That's that's kind 3:23:37.240 --> 3:23:41.400 of many such cases. Taking this many such cases quite 3:23:41.440 --> 3:23:44.560 frankly made my peepy huge. And if people say this 3:23:44.800 --> 3:23:47.480 is not pretty, they are wrong. They are working for 3:23:47.560 --> 3:23:52.240 the socialist globalist democrats and Chinese government, and it's impossible 3:23:52.280 --> 3:23:53.200 to know if that's a joke. 3:23:55.080 --> 3:23:58.000 We have a really interesting one by an artist named L. G. 3:23:58.560 --> 3:24:01.320 L Eing. How I'm gonna say sorry. 3:24:01.600 --> 3:24:03.920 There's also the last post on that is why is 3:24:04.040 --> 3:24:05.320 the Coctus color? 3:24:05.760 --> 3:24:10.640 Yes, the last covet for the Confederate for the Confederate girl. 3:24:10.680 --> 3:24:13.800 What is why is the Coctus color? Which is quite funny, 3:24:14.040 --> 3:24:17.080 but we have the next one is actually a three 3:24:17.200 --> 3:24:22.320 panel spread. First is a Democrat donkey for Sona. The 3:24:22.400 --> 3:24:26.360 second part is a floating Donald Trump elephant head with 3:24:26.440 --> 3:24:28.480 like a propeller extending out of the top and a 3:24:28.680 --> 3:24:31.120 robot hand coming out of the trunk reaching for the 3:24:31.240 --> 3:24:36.680 donkey's ass. Lastly, the Trump elephant now has an extendable 3:24:36.720 --> 3:24:41.440 boxing glove trunk and is flying victoriously over the Donkey 3:24:41.520 --> 3:24:42.800 Democrat with a black eye. 3:24:43.280 --> 3:24:46.080 See they I like this more before we got into 3:24:46.160 --> 3:24:47.840 like domestic abuse territory. 3:24:49.320 --> 3:24:51.480 No, this is We're gonna get into a lot of 3:24:51.520 --> 3:24:53.680 problematic aspects. I will just say now if you don't 3:24:53.720 --> 3:24:57.440 want to listen to some kind of deeply troubling psycho 3:24:57.520 --> 3:24:59.760 sexual themes develop over the course, especially once we get 3:24:59.760 --> 3:25:00.560 to the A three section. 3:25:00.760 --> 3:25:05.040 Okay, you know, okay, sorry, we need to talk about 3:25:05.080 --> 3:25:07.920 this post by user trash Fucker. 3:25:08.760 --> 3:25:14.080 Yeah, I don't wow. Okay, So this the. 3:25:14.200 --> 3:25:17.440 Comment, the comment for the donkey first, so no one says, 3:25:17.560 --> 3:25:20.800 quote I love you and your art, though, this really 3:25:20.879 --> 3:25:25.119 represents how that orange treated women and how he assaulted 3:25:25.200 --> 3:25:31.760 them by grabbing their genitut test. Beautiful art, beautiful styles. 3:25:31.920 --> 3:25:32.200 Thank you. 3:25:33.240 --> 3:25:36.240 If you can't spell genitals, you're not allowed to grab them. 3:25:36.360 --> 3:25:38.560 That is the law of the world. 3:25:39.720 --> 3:25:42.520 Now reading that post, I want more than anything to 3:25:42.600 --> 3:25:46.840 have Trump comment on some of these. Oh, get him 3:25:46.920 --> 3:25:50.440 up on the podium talking about this beautiful art, beautiful styles. 3:25:50.480 --> 3:25:54.400 They're saying, it's the most beautiful donkey pornography. Anybody's ever 3:25:54.520 --> 3:25:55.680 made on the dark web. 3:25:56.920 --> 3:25:59.840 A really bad one is a cartoon of Milo Ianopolis 3:26:00.560 --> 3:26:05.240 having sex with a hashtag never Trump Orthodox Jew who 3:26:05.320 --> 3:26:08.600 might be Ben Shapiro. I can't tell please, please, please 3:26:08.760 --> 3:26:12.520 until he supports building the wall as then, so as 3:26:12.560 --> 3:26:15.200 this is happening, on the background, a yasified Trump is 3:26:15.240 --> 3:26:17.760 sitting on the wall giving a thumbs up. This is 3:26:17.840 --> 3:26:21.800 by a Nazi cartoonist named Emily Usis here is here 3:26:21.920 --> 3:26:23.880 is yasified Trump thumbs up? 3:26:24.480 --> 3:26:25.600 He sure is, man. 3:26:26.200 --> 3:26:29.520 The cheeks are apple. It's the only way to describe it. 3:26:29.600 --> 3:26:32.720 Where is my Sophie. I don't think I can show 3:26:32.720 --> 3:26:35.160 you that image because it'll be an HR. I can't 3:26:35.160 --> 3:26:36.800 show you that part because it's too there's too much 3:26:36.840 --> 3:26:37.440 stuff going on. 3:26:38.560 --> 3:26:44.640 Okay, send it to me on signal later, Sophie, that's 3:26:44.720 --> 3:26:45.879 an HR violation. 3:26:46.080 --> 3:26:48.760 You're not allowed to ask here. I don't think. 3:26:49.800 --> 3:26:50.640 I barely look. 3:26:50.760 --> 3:26:51.280 I don't. 3:26:51.360 --> 3:26:53.800 I don't have a great recall of the of the 3:26:54.080 --> 3:26:56.800 HR course we have to take every year about sexual harassment. 3:26:57.040 --> 3:26:59.359 But I am assure that you are both in violation 3:26:59.520 --> 3:27:02.880 of company that Robert, that is because you're like two 3:27:02.959 --> 3:27:05.360 years behind and all of your all of your man 3:27:05.560 --> 3:27:06.440 did work trainings. 3:27:06.600 --> 3:27:10.040 I get a notification in my email twice a day 3:27:10.200 --> 3:27:14.720 that Robert hasn't done some like legally required training. 3:27:14.840 --> 3:27:17.800 So maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you are 3:27:17.879 --> 3:27:19.600 both in violation of our companies. 3:27:20.320 --> 3:27:20.800 Probably. 3:27:21.400 --> 3:27:26.080 Probably, But these Trump drawings just get keep getting more bizarre. 3:27:26.320 --> 3:27:28.800 There's a really good one of an octopus doytal Trump 3:27:28.879 --> 3:27:31.760 getting intimate with a furry fox and cat. Well, I 3:27:31.800 --> 3:27:34.440 do want to see that, with the comment posted under 3:27:35.000 --> 3:27:39.599 from what I've known, Trump doesn't support these kind of things. 3:27:39.920 --> 3:27:43.600 That's probably true. I don't think he'd be thrilled about that. 3:27:44.760 --> 3:27:47.760 So there's a few other furry ones, notably one with 3:27:47.800 --> 3:27:50.640 Trump grabbing the buttocks of a wildcat with some with 3:27:50.879 --> 3:27:54.360 very small hands, and one of a sexy Trump plowing 3:27:54.440 --> 3:27:58.600 down Fluttershy in front of an American flag. Oh god, 3:28:00.879 --> 3:28:04.800 that makes Yeah, it's bad. Quote. I guess I'm not 3:28:04.879 --> 3:28:08.920 the only mega bronie out there. Also quote I want 3:28:09.000 --> 3:28:12.840 to end my life. Sorry, also quote I want my 3:28:12.959 --> 3:28:14.320 life to end right. 3:28:14.480 --> 3:28:20.000 FU me too, honey, me too. That's that's like a 3:28:20.080 --> 3:28:22.400 lot of Trump back. I did not need to see 3:28:22.400 --> 3:28:23.440 that much of his Sophie. 3:28:23.720 --> 3:28:28.600 There's so much more Trump back anyway, So results for 3:28:28.760 --> 3:28:31.600 Donald J. Trump specifically produced a handful of new images, 3:28:32.160 --> 3:28:35.000 one really bad one of Trump groping a family guy character. 3:28:36.440 --> 3:28:38.120 But which family guy cares character? 3:28:38.200 --> 3:28:40.640 Garrison, I've never seen family guy. It's some woman. 3:28:41.520 --> 3:28:45.840 There's also okay, sorry, is that his face as a 3:28:45.959 --> 3:28:46.560 ball sack? 3:28:47.240 --> 3:28:48.520 No, that's just his face. 3:28:48.600 --> 3:28:51.800 So yeah, that feels like that does feel like some 3:28:52.000 --> 3:28:59.199 kind of like standard lib political cartoon Trump drawing covered 3:28:59.320 --> 3:28:59.959 bronze areas. 3:29:00.959 --> 3:29:03.960 It's trying to be in the family guy style. There's 3:29:03.959 --> 3:29:06.040 also a cartoon of a of a of a naked, 3:29:06.280 --> 3:29:10.200 very very buff well endowed Donald Trump flexing while holding 3:29:10.240 --> 3:29:13.800 a cigar, sitting in his armchair, which has the really 3:29:13.879 --> 3:29:17.280 good comment his thumb is on the wrong side, which 3:29:17.760 --> 3:29:18.920 is that that's true. 3:29:19.360 --> 3:29:22.240 I just wile everyone to know about. Garrison has pged 3:29:22.400 --> 3:29:23.000 these for us. 3:29:23.080 --> 3:29:23.640 They're like PG. 3:29:23.800 --> 3:29:25.400 Thirteen, so we're not seeing anything. 3:29:26.480 --> 3:29:28.520 This is this, this is all, this is all above board. 3:29:28.760 --> 3:29:30.200 One of the worst ones, in my opinion, is a 3:29:30.600 --> 3:29:34.360 very very steamy rendering of a blushing Trump looking behind 3:29:34.600 --> 3:29:37.720 toward the viewer with his butt pushed into the foreground. 3:29:38.040 --> 3:29:40.840 MEGA is written across the cheeks in the upper left 3:29:40.920 --> 3:29:45.119 corner is a close up of a smooth scrotum stretched 3:29:45.160 --> 3:29:46.720 out hole Garrison. 3:29:47.000 --> 3:29:49.400 When it comes to HR violations, I feel like you 3:29:49.480 --> 3:29:52.520 can't say stretched out whole. I think that's forbidden on 3:29:52.640 --> 3:29:56.039 a company call. I don't think you're allowed to say tried. 3:29:55.800 --> 3:29:58.280 To really turn the script into like the most like 3:29:58.879 --> 3:30:02.119 academic word I can. There are text bubbles of Trump 3:30:02.600 --> 3:30:05.200 conversing with the viewer. Trump says, you will vote for 3:30:05.320 --> 3:30:08.680 me after this right, with the viewer responding yeah sure. 3:30:10.320 --> 3:30:13.119 In the board they can't even get somewhat excited about 3:30:13.160 --> 3:30:13.720 this election. 3:30:15.200 --> 3:30:19.080 Extra text with an arrow pointing to Trump reads ineligible 3:30:19.160 --> 3:30:22.320 to run again. This piece has by far the highest 3:30:22.400 --> 3:30:25.360 number of horny comments underneath the image. Now I think 3:30:25.560 --> 3:30:28.359 the actual worst when I discovered is a happy International 3:30:28.400 --> 3:30:30.960 Men's Day cartoon of Trump wearing an American flag thong 3:30:31.040 --> 3:30:33.439 standing on top of a box of noble Peace prizes. 3:30:33.480 --> 3:30:35.000 With thanks you for censoring that. 3:30:35.280 --> 3:30:39.720 Jesus with the Stephen with the Stephen Universe character Pearl 3:30:39.879 --> 3:30:42.680 in a bikini holding onto Trump, rubbing her leg against 3:30:42.680 --> 3:30:43.080 his thigh. 3:30:43.120 --> 3:30:45.160 Now see, and I don't feel like Pearl would do this. 3:30:45.600 --> 3:30:48.640 No, No, so Pearl has a text bubble saying forget women, 3:30:48.840 --> 3:30:50.360 I only make love to real men. 3:30:50.520 --> 3:30:50.640 Now. 3:30:51.240 --> 3:30:53.879 Now, I wanted to learn more about why this image exists. 3:30:54.320 --> 3:30:57.760 The artist behind this creation is named Luke Weber, and 3:30:57.879 --> 3:31:00.360 he actually used to work on this show Steven Universe 3:31:00.400 --> 3:31:01.600 as a story artist. 3:31:02.080 --> 3:31:04.119 Oh god, so this is Cannon. 3:31:04.800 --> 3:31:08.720 No, Luke had really unhealthy Luke had a really unhealthy 3:31:08.760 --> 3:31:13.080 obsession with the lesbian character Pearl, and would often waste 3:31:13.160 --> 3:31:16.359 time at work by drawing really horny art of himself 3:31:16.520 --> 3:31:20.080 and Pearl in a relationship of his art of him 3:31:20.120 --> 3:31:23.199 and Pearl would include other co workers like Ian Jones, Corty, 3:31:23.560 --> 3:31:27.040 and show creator Rebecca Sugar. He allegedly gave Rebecca Sugar 3:31:27.280 --> 3:31:30.400 a drawing of having sex with Pearl, which allegedly got 3:31:30.480 --> 3:31:32.880 him fired from the show among many other reasons, and 3:31:32.959 --> 3:31:36.120 he's been blacklisted from large parts of the animation industry 3:31:36.320 --> 3:31:37.880 for sexual harassment and violence. 3:31:38.480 --> 3:31:41.400 Oh well, that was much worse than I thought it 3:31:41.480 --> 3:31:41.880 was going to do. 3:31:42.920 --> 3:31:45.480 I was like, this is bat Novis is really fucked up. 3:31:45.560 --> 3:31:49.920 Eh, so this this there's there's some bad stuff. Now, 3:31:50.040 --> 3:31:51.680 I say the best for last. There's a small collection 3:31:51.760 --> 3:31:54.120 of pieces riffing on that picture of Trump playing tennis 3:31:54.160 --> 3:31:57.320 where he looks all quote unquote caked up one uh 3:31:57.520 --> 3:32:00.360 with Trump in his tennis SciFIT is bending over pants 3:32:00.440 --> 3:32:04.520 down crackout with a variation of featuring two large what 3:32:04.600 --> 3:32:08.200 I'm gonna call dark skinned penises, I think Trump interracial 3:32:08.240 --> 3:32:11.160 bottoming is a is a trend that we'll see reoccurring 3:32:11.240 --> 3:32:14.800 here of course. Now, however, I believe the superior tennis 3:32:14.840 --> 3:32:17.840 piece is from an artist named Shad Bass, who might 3:32:17.959 --> 3:32:20.840 be a Nazi or just pretends to be one online. 3:32:21.480 --> 3:32:24.320 Cutting in here to do a quick correction. So originally 3:32:24.440 --> 3:32:27.080 in this episode identified a Shad Bass as a trans woman, 3:32:27.160 --> 3:32:29.320 which is not the case. The reason why I thought 3:32:29.360 --> 3:32:31.640 this is because the most recent picture appearing to be 3:32:31.640 --> 3:32:33.879 Shad based on his Twitter account from like a year ago, 3:32:34.480 --> 3:32:38.160 is him as a trans woman talking about getting on estrogen. Now, 3:32:38.240 --> 3:32:40.320 this was actually part of an ongoing joke that I 3:32:40.480 --> 3:32:43.000 just didn't have the context for, as he's like a 3:32:43.200 --> 3:32:45.880 really scummy and deeply problematic artist who I did not 3:32:46.000 --> 3:32:48.720 feel like doing a whole deep dive on so Apologies 3:32:48.760 --> 3:32:51.520 for that and back to the episode. But she has 3:32:51.640 --> 3:32:53.800 drawn Trump in the same post as the famous photo, 3:32:54.000 --> 3:32:57.440 but as an anime girl wearing a transparent tennis skirt 3:32:57.879 --> 3:33:01.320 with the comments underneath saying I'd vote for her and 3:33:01.959 --> 3:33:03.480 I don't have enough weed for this shit. 3:33:04.080 --> 3:33:04.760 Nobody does. 3:33:05.320 --> 3:33:07.600 That's what I was about to say about this recording. 3:33:08.440 --> 3:33:11.320 Yeah, but you know what we do have, Sophie, an 3:33:11.360 --> 3:33:12.800 ad break, an ad break. 3:33:13.200 --> 3:33:16.400 Yeah, we can all consume substances to get through the 3:33:16.440 --> 3:33:16.880 rest of this. 3:33:28.040 --> 3:33:31.560 Okay, we are back now. The most interesting thing I 3:33:31.600 --> 3:33:33.480 found on a Real thirty four is a political comic 3:33:33.640 --> 3:33:36.280 by a guy named Larry Weltz who makes this thing 3:33:36.360 --> 3:33:38.840 called Cherry Comics. He's like an old hippie cartoonist. This 3:33:38.959 --> 3:33:41.680 is a long running series, but these collection of panels 3:33:41.680 --> 3:33:44.359 are about a group of women using quote unquote weaponized 3:33:44.480 --> 3:33:47.880 sex to bring to bring down Donald Trump. One page 3:33:47.920 --> 3:33:50.000 depicts the main character, Cherry, breaking into the White House 3:33:50.160 --> 3:33:53.320 like a quote unquote sex ninja to quote Fuckum to 3:33:53.520 --> 3:33:57.240 death unquote. One plotline has Cherry using her love powers 3:33:57.360 --> 3:33:59.280 to make all of the riot police at a twenty 3:33:59.360 --> 3:34:01.240 twenty protest to take off their riot gear and start 3:34:01.280 --> 3:34:04.240 having gay sex with each other through the power of love. Now, 3:34:04.560 --> 3:34:08.200 in the main panel, Cherry seduces a very unflattering Trump 3:34:08.760 --> 3:34:12.440 from the bushes of a golf course. Quote grab some 3:34:13.160 --> 3:34:18.960 uh this py word, Pretend I'm your daughter unquote. She 3:34:19.040 --> 3:34:21.039 gets trumped to chase her naked through a golf course, 3:34:21.080 --> 3:34:23.320 and when he's about to grab her, she disappears with 3:34:23.400 --> 3:34:25.960 the accompanying on a monopea twink, which I think is 3:34:26.000 --> 3:34:31.040 completely unintentional, naked into a face full of mud. I 3:34:31.080 --> 3:34:33.200 think this comic is actually good natured, but it's still 3:34:33.280 --> 3:34:35.279 kind of really problematic and very boomer. 3:34:35.120 --> 3:34:38.480 Pretend I'm your daughter, So they're like rooting for Trump 3:34:38.600 --> 3:34:39.560 to insst fa. 3:34:39.840 --> 3:34:42.360 There is a lot we will get to this. There 3:34:42.480 --> 3:34:46.039 is a lot of a Vanka Trump weird incest shit. 3:34:46.240 --> 3:34:48.640 It is deeply upsetting. Like I said, I put the 3:34:48.680 --> 3:34:51.680 content warning further up because there's gonna be some really 3:34:52.080 --> 3:34:55.360 bad psychosexual shit that I tried to really like clean 3:34:55.480 --> 3:34:58.720 up here. But yeah, this like boomer hippie cherry comic 3:34:58.800 --> 3:35:01.120 thing is really weird because it's very like nominally liberal, 3:35:01.480 --> 3:35:04.560 but it also has like really like classically racist cartoon 3:35:04.640 --> 3:35:08.440 depictions of black people. Oh great, It's just it's just 3:35:08.520 --> 3:35:11.840 a lot anyway. So but I again, I was kind 3:35:11.879 --> 3:35:14.800 of surprised that tags for Trump only returned like a 3:35:14.959 --> 3:35:18.400 few a few Trump images. When I started just quote 3:35:18.440 --> 3:35:21.040 unquote Trump on roll thirty four, most of the results 3:35:21.080 --> 3:35:23.680 were for a furry Japanese webcomic that's over one hundred 3:35:23.680 --> 3:35:25.520 and twenty pages. Because I think the artist just goes 3:35:25.560 --> 3:35:28.800 by the name Trump, He's completely unrelated, and I was 3:35:28.879 --> 3:35:31.760 really just expecting more stuff. I checked Dvan art and 3:35:31.800 --> 3:35:34.240 it was largely barren of Trump themed not safe for 3:35:34.280 --> 3:35:37.040 work images. Now, just as I was about to give 3:35:37.120 --> 3:35:39.520 up and I thought maybe there's not enough for an episode, 3:35:40.000 --> 3:35:43.960 my my primal Zoomer brain activated. It's like it's like 3:35:44.040 --> 3:35:46.400 something deep in my core knew what had to be done. 3:35:46.680 --> 3:35:50.640 Rival Zoomer. That's what I logged into the website archive 3:35:50.760 --> 3:35:54.600 of our own, the most popular fiction website on the Internet. 3:35:55.120 --> 3:35:58.959 There are over one thousand and seven hundred works titled 3:35:59.680 --> 3:36:01.080 tagged with Donald Trump. 3:36:01.120 --> 3:36:02.120 It's like the right number. 3:36:02.480 --> 3:36:05.320 Now, not all that's porn or erotica, right, So I 3:36:05.440 --> 3:36:07.600 had to really whittle down the results based on my 3:36:07.640 --> 3:36:10.120 own judgment and to my own tastes. Now, I had 3:36:10.160 --> 3:36:13.720 a very specific focus on the genre of old man yowie, which, 3:36:13.720 --> 3:36:17.080 of course you conveniently was also what the majority of 3:36:17.160 --> 3:36:19.600 the Trump centric works that were like rated, M and 3:36:19.720 --> 3:36:21.960 explicit could be categorized. 3:36:21.440 --> 3:36:22.560 As of course they were. 3:36:23.360 --> 3:36:25.279 Let's start our journey by going over the most popular 3:36:25.320 --> 3:36:28.600 Donald Trump relationship pairings and any guesses for what. The 3:36:28.680 --> 3:36:32.600 first one is like Donald Trump X, like who you 3:36:32.680 --> 3:36:33.240 know what, I'm. 3:36:33.120 --> 3:36:36.280 Gonna swing for the fences here and say Condoeza Rice. 3:36:37.440 --> 3:36:40.960 Sorry in a wrong Yeah, that was that was always 3:36:41.000 --> 3:36:42.320 a Sophie coming to the ste. 3:36:44.120 --> 3:36:47.240 I mean, unfortunately, I kind of think it's probably Avanka. 3:36:48.040 --> 3:36:48.400 It is not. 3:36:49.000 --> 3:36:52.680 It's not Avokavanka and Hillary had very few, so few 3:36:52.720 --> 3:36:54.560 that they're not even notable and not even in my list. 3:36:54.879 --> 3:36:57.959 The number one pairing for Donald Trump is Joe Biden 3:36:58.040 --> 3:37:01.000 with what one hundred and ninety two works? You know, 3:37:01.640 --> 3:37:04.240 that's what we deserve as a country. The number two 3:37:04.600 --> 3:37:08.760 is Vladimir Putin with one hundred and four. Number three, okay, 3:37:08.879 --> 3:37:13.199 number three is Shrek with thirty four works. Sorry, that's sorry, 3:37:13.240 --> 3:37:16.040 that is number four. Number four is Shrek. Number three 3:37:16.280 --> 3:37:18.720 is Barack Obama with thirty seven works. 3:37:19.320 --> 3:37:22.040 Well, that's less Obama than I expected of it. 3:37:22.480 --> 3:37:23.560 Yeah, that was my point. 3:37:24.000 --> 3:37:26.320 Number five is Kim Jong un with twenty. 3:37:26.160 --> 3:37:29.280 Four k the that's the exact number of Kim Jong 3:37:29.320 --> 3:37:30.600 owd once I expect. 3:37:30.760 --> 3:37:34.240 We have twelve works that are titled Donald Trump X Reader. 3:37:34.959 --> 3:37:38.480 Seven of them are Trump and Jesus Christ, six are 3:37:38.560 --> 3:37:42.360 Donald Trump Kanye West, five are Adolf Hitler Donald Trump, 3:37:42.720 --> 3:37:46.760 and two are Teletubbies and Donald Trump. Forty one works 3:37:46.840 --> 3:37:51.480 are titled as or tagged as bottom Donald Trump Wow Wow, 3:37:52.040 --> 3:37:54.600 far outnumbering the numbers where he tops. 3:37:54.720 --> 3:37:57.800 So I'm actually really surprised by only seven for Jesus 3:37:57.920 --> 3:37:58.920 because I'm kind. 3:37:58.760 --> 3:37:59.920 Of curious about the cheese. 3:38:00.520 --> 3:38:03.160 Yeah, Robert, I have I had great news for you. 3:38:06.879 --> 3:38:07.039 Now. 3:38:07.280 --> 3:38:08.920 We don't have the time, nor do I have the 3:38:08.959 --> 3:38:11.160 willpower to go through each and every one of these, 3:38:11.400 --> 3:38:14.360 so instead I like to highlight some of the plot summaries, tags, 3:38:14.400 --> 3:38:16.480 and select paragraphs that caught my eye to give you 3:38:16.560 --> 3:38:19.320 a taste of the horror that I've gazed upon. I'll 3:38:19.320 --> 3:38:21.200 start with one of the newest entries in the Cannon, 3:38:21.400 --> 3:38:26.600 titled Donald Trump Prison Era. I'm gonna start with a 3:38:26.640 --> 3:38:29.720 time skip quote. It's been four years since Trump was rejailed. 3:38:29.840 --> 3:38:31.840 Him and his friends were locked in the safest, most 3:38:31.879 --> 3:38:34.360 desolate place in the prison. They may not have freedom, 3:38:34.400 --> 3:38:37.199 but at least they have each other. During those four years, 3:38:37.280 --> 3:38:39.800 Ben Shapiro was thrown in prison too. He was very 3:38:39.920 --> 3:38:42.880 silent at what he had done and therefore distanced himself 3:38:42.879 --> 3:38:45.080 from everybody. I don't know what he did, but he 3:38:45.160 --> 3:38:47.000 must have done something to ruin him as a person, 3:38:47.160 --> 3:38:51.240 Warren Buffett said, and everyone nodded. Is he one of 3:38:51.320 --> 3:38:55.400 Trump's friends? We have each other at least will be 3:38:55.520 --> 3:38:59.720 fine in this jail. Elongated muskrat said, Trump was cuddling 3:38:59.800 --> 3:39:01.320 with Andrew Tate in the corner. 3:39:05.120 --> 3:39:07.400 This is the closest I've come for feeling bad for 3:39:07.560 --> 3:39:08.160 Andrew Tate. 3:39:09.800 --> 3:39:12.360 I for the record, I still don't feel bad for 3:39:12.440 --> 3:39:12.920 Andrew Tait. 3:39:14.080 --> 3:39:17.920 Another one which is Trump ex reader. The summary is quote. 3:39:18.040 --> 3:39:19.560 It began four years ago when you saw him on 3:39:19.600 --> 3:39:22.240 TV during the presidential inauguration. You were laying on your bed, 3:39:22.280 --> 3:39:27.400 listening to country music on you American bedsheet. Suddenly you 3:39:27.520 --> 3:39:30.000 saw his big, handsome orange face and you knew he 3:39:30.160 --> 3:39:35.279 had to be yours. So in this one, the reader 3:39:35.520 --> 3:39:38.720 gets to marry or get with Trump in some way, 3:39:38.840 --> 3:39:41.920 and then you kind of like plan the January sixth 3:39:41.959 --> 3:39:47.040 insurrection together. So that's a fun one. There's a really 3:39:47.080 --> 3:39:51.160 good one titled Trump poly Relationship with the tags Joe Biden, 3:39:51.200 --> 3:39:54.840 Brock Obama, Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Sonic 3:39:54.920 --> 3:39:57.240 the Hedgehog, enemies to lovers see. 3:39:57.240 --> 3:39:59.800 I feel like only Sonic the Hedgehog of that group 3:40:00.000 --> 3:40:04.119 as the communication skills necessary for a successful polyamorous relationship. 3:40:04.560 --> 3:40:07.960 There's another one that's tagged as Donald Trump, Kanye West, 3:40:08.080 --> 3:40:09.000 BoJack Horseman. 3:40:10.120 --> 3:40:14.000 Of course I feel you know, BoJack, would you get 3:40:14.080 --> 3:40:16.040 him drunk enough, he'd get on with that. 3:40:17.560 --> 3:40:21.880 And there's really like there's two big genres here. There's 3:40:22.200 --> 3:40:25.400 the genre that's just like regular smut, where you feel 3:40:25.440 --> 3:40:27.240 like someone's just like a controlled f to all of 3:40:27.280 --> 3:40:30.320 the names and like just like switched it around, versus 3:40:31.680 --> 3:40:35.000 the fan fits that are entrenched in world building that 3:40:35.160 --> 3:40:39.280 integrates erotic literature with the world of Donald Trump. And 3:40:39.400 --> 3:40:40.959 those are the ones I like to focus on more 3:40:41.000 --> 3:40:44.800 because you know, it's not universe exactly. You know, it's 3:40:44.840 --> 3:40:47.800 not just someone control effing just like a regular sex scene. 3:40:47.959 --> 3:40:50.040 I wanted to actually like, I want to have lore, 3:40:50.240 --> 3:40:55.480 I want world building. I need to be connected to what. 3:40:55.760 --> 3:41:01.240 The story titled Donald Trump's Monstrous dick that you've put 3:41:01.320 --> 3:41:02.119 in this document. 3:41:02.560 --> 3:41:04.520 No, I'm gonna skip over that one. Actually we don't 3:41:04.520 --> 3:41:07.160 have enough creat Oh okay, this is just a woman 3:41:07.240 --> 3:41:11.400 talking about how she finds his orange, shiny body attractive, 3:41:11.440 --> 3:41:13.200 which there's a lot of that kind of stuff, right, 3:41:13.480 --> 3:41:16.200 I'm gonna instead go to Where the Wind Blows by 3:41:16.480 --> 3:41:21.600 Just and lone three summary. Joe Biden is a seventeen 3:41:21.680 --> 3:41:23.760 year old senior who happens to the top of his class. 3:41:24.440 --> 3:41:27.320 Not as the perfect straight, a capable student to friends 3:41:27.360 --> 3:41:29.480 and family, but what happens when a new student who 3:41:29.480 --> 3:41:31.360 got kicked out of his old school for fights gets 3:41:31.400 --> 3:41:34.879 partnered up with him for tutoring. I'm actually gonna skip 3:41:34.959 --> 3:41:38.320 to chapter two titled what the Sigma? 3:41:39.040 --> 3:41:43.560 Oh no, no, oh, my god. 3:41:44.240 --> 3:41:47.440 Quote. After about two hours they finished their study session, 3:41:47.840 --> 3:41:50.680 Joe went out to a cafe with his childhood friends 3:41:50.840 --> 3:41:54.080 Brock and Bury the Bee Benson just imagine Bury the 3:41:54.160 --> 3:41:56.320 Bee to be six feet tall. The three of them 3:41:56.680 --> 3:41:59.840 talk at a booth inside when the topic of Donald 3:42:00.080 --> 3:42:04.040 brought up. Joe, bro Dude, I heard that Donald got 3:42:04.120 --> 3:42:06.360 kicked out of his old school for selling illegal stuff 3:42:06.400 --> 3:42:09.000 and getting into three fights per week at least Barry 3:42:09.040 --> 3:42:11.600 said in a hushed tone. Has he tried to hurt 3:42:11.680 --> 3:42:14.080 you at all? Do need help? Is he meeting up 3:42:14.120 --> 3:42:16.680 with a secret gang or something? Barry uttered under his 3:42:16.760 --> 3:42:18.520 breath as his wings slightly flapped. 3:42:18.840 --> 3:42:21.960 What the fuck? So he's a literal b wait? 3:42:22.080 --> 3:42:24.600 So no, no, no, no, no, Barry the Bee Benson 3:42:24.760 --> 3:42:26.880 is the Jerry Seinfeld Bee movie? 3:42:27.000 --> 3:42:27.760 Be correct? 3:42:27.879 --> 3:42:32.640 I'm might wait? No really joking, Robert, Yes, yes. 3:42:32.600 --> 3:42:33.440 We got back. 3:42:33.520 --> 3:42:35.039 Why fucking b movie? 3:42:35.280 --> 3:42:41.200 Somehow Jerry's I can't escape jerrys idfelt. No matter where 3:42:41.320 --> 3:42:45.800 I go, He's always there. Even in Trump pornography, Jerry 3:42:45.959 --> 3:42:46.520 follows me. 3:42:47.600 --> 3:42:51.560 Barry, you're overreacting, Brock said as he rubbed the inner 3:42:51.720 --> 3:42:54.600 of his eyes with his pointer fingers. I'm sure Joe 3:42:54.680 --> 3:42:57.640 can handle himself. He's almost eighteen. Besides, can we talk 3:42:57.680 --> 3:42:59.840 about something else, like how Drake and Kendrick got caught 3:43:00.040 --> 3:43:02.320 making out under the bleachers. I'm pretty sure they hated 3:43:02.320 --> 3:43:04.320 each other just three weeks ago, or at least Kendrick 3:43:04.360 --> 3:43:09.360 hated Drake after he dated the freshman. There's one called 3:43:09.480 --> 3:43:13.080 Election Day where Shrek tries to prevent you from voting 3:43:13.400 --> 3:43:15.880 and Trump shows up as like a superhero. There's some 3:43:16.040 --> 3:43:21.360 like isis jokes, refugee jokes. Anyway, there's some there's some 3:43:21.440 --> 3:43:22.440 funny lines in here. 3:43:22.520 --> 3:43:25.760 To be sure, it is Donald Trump who is your hero. 3:43:26.160 --> 3:43:29.680 His intense alpha stare disintegrates the rest of Shrek's body, 3:43:30.080 --> 3:43:33.680 leaving you covered dot dot dot. Donald pulls his pants 3:43:33.760 --> 3:43:34.080 back on. 3:43:34.640 --> 3:43:40.680 Yeah so Yeahrek, Yeah. Anyway. There's a really troubling one 3:43:40.760 --> 3:43:43.600 titled Under the Crooked Lamp, which is tagged with American 3:43:43.680 --> 3:43:47.840 history fandom, World War II fandom, Nazi Germany fandom. The 3:43:47.920 --> 3:43:51.080 summary is quote short smut about Adolf Hitler and Donald Trump, 3:43:51.120 --> 3:43:53.560 with cameos from Barack Obama and Kanye West. So there 3:43:53.600 --> 3:43:56.920 you go, now, I The one of the most popular 3:43:57.920 --> 3:44:01.840 Donald Trump benfix is titled Donald Trump Story. Quote. I 3:44:01.959 --> 3:44:04.800 walked past the door of the Oval Office, No, my office, 3:44:05.120 --> 3:44:08.840 my house. Finally, the White House, the only race that 3:44:08.920 --> 3:44:12.039 should be here unquote. So not off to a great start. 3:44:13.520 --> 3:44:16.920 Throughout this fick. Trump falls in love with a Mexican 3:44:17.000 --> 3:44:20.040 architect that he hired to build the wall. That's the 3:44:20.080 --> 3:44:22.840 whole bit, now, Robert, I know you said you were 3:44:22.879 --> 3:44:24.199 interested in Jesus Christ. 3:44:25.480 --> 3:44:28.440 Of course is yeah, he is kind of. 3:44:30.000 --> 3:44:32.600 The most popular Jesus Christ. One I could find is 3:44:32.680 --> 3:44:40.879 called Jesus X Trump pussy Sure the uh. The summary 3:44:41.040 --> 3:44:43.039 is Trump kicks the bucket and has a very interesting 3:44:43.240 --> 3:44:49.160 surprise waiting for him. Chapter one, Trumpy Dumpty meets sky Daddy. 3:44:53.400 --> 3:44:57.080 Oh my god, I'm so worried about our society. 3:44:58.120 --> 3:45:01.480 So Trumpet Trump gets assassinated and to his surprise, gets 3:45:01.600 --> 3:45:03.360 sent to heaven. He thought he was going to be 3:45:03.400 --> 3:45:06.120 going to hell with gay people on Hillary Clinton, but 3:45:06.240 --> 3:45:09.080 instead Jesus is waiting for him, and Jesus says, be 3:45:09.200 --> 3:45:12.480 prepared for the right of your life or death. You 3:45:12.600 --> 3:45:14.680 are a bad little slut on earth and it's time 3:45:14.760 --> 3:45:16.800 for you to pay for your sins. My little Trump 3:45:16.879 --> 3:45:19.920 was sy I hope you're ready anyway. 3:45:19.959 --> 3:45:21.840 I kind of hate that they stole my catchphrase. 3:45:22.200 --> 3:45:25.680 Now by chapter seven, Donald Trump is pregnant. There's eight 3:45:25.800 --> 3:45:26.520 chapters in this. 3:45:30.200 --> 3:45:30.320 Kid. 3:45:30.440 --> 3:45:34.400 I'm sorry, that's that's all you need to present to 3:45:34.480 --> 3:45:38.800 get someone fifty one fifty Like that's an involuntary mental 3:45:38.840 --> 3:45:39.840 health hold right there. 3:45:40.160 --> 3:45:45.080 Speaking of pregnancy, there's a very popular or the most popular. 3:45:44.959 --> 3:45:48.120 Go to an ad break speaking of pregnancy. 3:45:49.120 --> 3:45:53.920 Speak the most popular Donald Trump Xaydalf Hitler. One is 3:45:54.000 --> 3:45:56.160 titled Warped Tour A Great Place for Home of Hobes 3:45:56.240 --> 3:45:59.160 to mate hot guys. It's set at this music. 3:45:59.000 --> 3:46:03.160 Festival about wharfed Tour It's Not Wrong, where. 3:46:03.000 --> 3:46:05.280 Adolf Hitler and Donald tr are both there to like 3:46:05.640 --> 3:46:08.760 disrupt like a gay concert and they have like a 3:46:08.840 --> 3:46:12.240 little meet cute. Trump invites invites Hitler back to the 3:46:12.360 --> 3:46:13.920 back to his hotel room to come up with new 3:46:14.120 --> 3:46:17.040 plans for how to try to harass gay people. And 3:46:17.160 --> 3:46:20.440 it ends with Adolf Hitler being impregnated. But Trump is 3:46:20.480 --> 3:46:24.200 not a supportive parent, so Joseph Goebelers has to help 3:46:24.280 --> 3:46:26.680 deliver the child with Hitler instead of Trump. 3:46:27.160 --> 3:46:29.600 Well, you know, I gotta say, at least they get 3:46:29.680 --> 3:46:33.040 the personalities right, because Joseph, Joseph is the kind of 3:46:33.080 --> 3:46:34.760 guy who would who would come in at the clutch 3:46:34.879 --> 3:46:38.279 like that to help Hitler deliver his lust baby. 3:46:39.000 --> 3:46:42.200 There's there's two decently popular Trump x Biden ones that 3:46:42.240 --> 3:46:46.720 are set during presidential debates, one of which they fuck backstage. 3:46:47.320 --> 3:46:52.240 And I don't think five thousand hits, I don't. Okay, 3:46:52.560 --> 3:46:56.120 no one gets pregnant in this one, but there are 3:46:56.200 --> 3:46:59.040 certainly others, so there's one where they have sex backstage, 3:46:59.360 --> 3:47:01.280 and then there's another one where they have sex on 3:47:01.680 --> 3:47:04.320 stage and Chris Wallace is moderating. 3:47:05.080 --> 3:47:06.120 Someone should let him know. 3:47:07.920 --> 3:47:11.360 Oh, and then in chapter two, Donald Trump gives birth 3:47:11.360 --> 3:47:13.240 because he got he got imprinted on stage. 3:47:13.560 --> 3:47:13.720 Yeah. 3:47:13.920 --> 3:47:16.200 I think, Garrison, you need to do your job as 3:47:16.200 --> 3:47:18.160 a journalist, and we need to We need to reach 3:47:18.200 --> 3:47:23.080 out to Chris Wallace and ask, theoretically, would he narrate 3:47:23.240 --> 3:47:26.000 Donald Trump sex with Joe Biden they if they were 3:47:26.080 --> 3:47:28.040 to do that on stage, how does he feel about that? 3:47:28.360 --> 3:47:32.000 I will go to the very last one with sixty 3:47:32.120 --> 3:47:34.920 five thousand hits, by far, the most popular Donald Trump 3:47:35.280 --> 3:47:38.920 kind of erotica smut on the whole website. It's called 3:47:39.040 --> 3:47:42.320 go Fuck Yourself Donald Trump by orphan underscore account, who's 3:47:42.320 --> 3:47:44.280 actually written a few of the ones that we've talked 3:47:44.320 --> 3:47:44.680 about here. 3:47:44.840 --> 3:47:46.560 Sixty five thousand views. 3:47:47.000 --> 3:47:47.200 Yeah. 3:47:47.959 --> 3:47:51.960 Published in twenty seventeen, just before in Auguration day. Quote 3:47:52.520 --> 3:47:55.039 another person told me to go fuck myself today. Donald 3:47:55.040 --> 3:47:59.320 Trump told his strong Russian lover Vladimir Putin. I want to, 3:47:59.400 --> 3:48:02.360 but it's importants. There's only one of me. So the 3:48:02.400 --> 3:48:05.040 first paragraph is about how Putin forces Trump to eat 3:48:05.280 --> 3:48:08.440 three tubs of crisco a day. It's basically just body 3:48:08.480 --> 3:48:11.960 shaming for the majority of this of this piece sounds 3:48:12.000 --> 3:48:16.640 like too yes totally. And then Putin presents a clone 3:48:16.760 --> 3:48:19.879 of Donald Trump. Quote its eyes were almost as lifeless 3:48:19.959 --> 3:48:23.560 as Donald's himself. That was the true perfection of this creature. 3:48:23.879 --> 3:48:27.560 He's gorgeous, Trump said, tears sliding down his face. He 3:48:27.640 --> 3:48:29.640 felt as if he was looking into the mirror. But 3:48:29.800 --> 3:48:33.840 when he reached to touch his reflection, his his hands 3:48:33.959 --> 3:48:39.040 met soft clammy skin. Thank you, daddy. Trump eagerly began 3:48:39.200 --> 3:48:43.600 kissing his clone, pushing his tongue past slack lips until 3:48:43.640 --> 3:48:47.800 it learned to respond to him. Each hungrily tried to 3:48:47.879 --> 3:48:52.080 devour the other, their bodies writhing against each other, tears 3:48:52.160 --> 3:48:55.440 rolling down their faces in unison as they realized that 3:48:56.000 --> 3:48:59.400 neither one could ever fill the empty void that they 3:48:59.520 --> 3:49:05.400 felt inside. So that is my extremely abridged version of 3:49:05.480 --> 3:49:09.880 my AO three adventure. And unfortunately I do have one 3:49:09.960 --> 3:49:12.080 more section, but it's a bit shorter that we will 3:49:12.120 --> 3:49:14.160 get to after the break. For some of the more 3:49:14.320 --> 3:49:17.040 kind of I would say mainstream Trump pornography that can 3:49:17.080 --> 3:49:18.080 be found on the internet. 3:49:18.640 --> 3:49:32.240 Finally, all right, we are so back. 3:49:32.680 --> 3:49:36.440 We have never been more back. So I've been to 3:49:36.520 --> 3:49:39.520 you know, the regular zoomer places, right, we have like 3:49:39.640 --> 3:49:41.800 you know, DV and art type stuff. We have AO three. 3:49:41.920 --> 3:49:46.080 And then I realized that boomers also watch poor So 3:49:46.680 --> 3:49:49.760 I went to the two most popular porn websites, something 3:49:49.760 --> 3:49:56.120 I've never done before, and I there's only around thirty 3:49:56.280 --> 3:49:59.520 Trump centric videos across both sites. Now, there is a 3:49:59.560 --> 3:50:01.920 decent sort of like repeat uploads, right, and there's some 3:50:02.080 --> 3:50:04.520 videos that are just cut into shorter clips from longer scenes. 3:50:04.880 --> 3:50:07.120 But there's only about thirty source videos that I could 3:50:07.160 --> 3:50:09.640 find across the two top porn sites. 3:50:10.040 --> 3:50:13.280 Question, is it because they're being censored or is he 3:50:13.440 --> 3:50:14.840 nons with somebody that. 3:50:15.080 --> 3:50:18.200 No, it's just it's just not the most popular thing interesting. 3:50:18.320 --> 3:50:20.160 And now I would argue Trump is probably one of 3:50:20.200 --> 3:50:22.600 the more sexualized presidents we've we've had in recent years 3:50:22.800 --> 3:50:23.560 because of his which he. 3:50:23.640 --> 3:50:26.880 Makes because of who he is, not because of his 3:50:27.200 --> 3:50:28.080 sex appeal. 3:50:27.960 --> 3:50:29.800 Because of how he looks, but because of like his 3:50:29.920 --> 3:50:33.000 personal background and all of his you know, very obvious 3:50:33.080 --> 3:50:36.000 sex crimes. Right, Like we can go with like Bill Clinton, 3:50:36.160 --> 3:50:38.520 but like Trump, Trump is so much more sexualized than 3:50:38.600 --> 3:50:42.040 like Bush or Obama. It's it's it's it's kind of interesting, 3:50:42.440 --> 3:50:46.680 and yet very few materials on these sites now so weird. 3:50:47.040 --> 3:50:48.120 There's a few different types here. 3:50:48.280 --> 3:50:48.440 We have. 3:50:48.640 --> 3:50:51.000 We have animated ones, which is what I first went through. 3:50:51.520 --> 3:50:54.280 Some of these are just like voiceover clips of someone 3:50:54.400 --> 3:50:57.440 playing a porn game and doing voiceover for dialogue. Now, 3:50:57.480 --> 3:50:59.000 all of these are narrated in one take, and it's 3:50:59.040 --> 3:51:00.360 very clear the voice of over per and has not 3:51:00.440 --> 3:51:03.920 reviewed the material at all prior to their courting, because 3:51:04.000 --> 3:51:07.440 they will often and sentences at the wrong spot, breaking 3:51:07.480 --> 3:51:11.120 the flow of the dialogue. So that is one genre. 3:51:11.480 --> 3:51:17.280 There is a really upset anyone titled storby Daniels ex 3:51:17.400 --> 3:51:20.760 Trump cartoon hen Ti causeplay Milk with eleven thousand views, 3:51:21.200 --> 3:51:25.680 which has the worst most creepy looking PlayStation. 3:51:27.640 --> 3:51:31.240 Level What is happening? Holy oh? 3:51:32.040 --> 3:51:36.320 He looks like a corpse, but also is little like Clinton. 3:51:36.600 --> 3:51:39.720 Like these these three D models are fucking in what 3:51:39.800 --> 3:51:41.840 looks like a college dorm room. Trump is wearing his 3:51:41.960 --> 3:51:45.160 suit jacket and red tie with leather shoes but nothing else. 3:51:46.240 --> 3:51:49.120 And something I can't show you but I found really 3:51:49.200 --> 3:51:52.120 upsetting is that his legs are about as twice as 3:51:52.240 --> 3:51:55.720 big as his body, but with tiny feet. Like his 3:51:56.240 --> 3:51:57.920 legs are so much wider than the rest of him, 3:51:58.040 --> 3:52:01.320 they're huge. It's really concerning, and I don't think it's 3:52:01.360 --> 3:52:03.640 on purpose. It's just like a really bad three D model. 3:52:04.560 --> 3:52:05.200 So weird. 3:52:05.400 --> 3:52:06.280 Yeah, that's upsetting. 3:52:06.560 --> 3:52:08.080 In one of the in one of the video game 3:52:08.120 --> 3:52:12.000 type ones, when Trump is orgasming, he says, ah bing 3:52:12.240 --> 3:52:14.240 bing bong bong bing bing bing. 3:52:15.000 --> 3:52:15.840 I just thought I should you. 3:52:17.760 --> 3:52:22.960 Big indeed, I now so onto live action. 3:52:23.360 --> 3:52:23.840 The first ive. 3:52:24.040 --> 3:52:26.080 The first live action one is a bit of an outlier. 3:52:26.560 --> 3:52:29.440 It is titled Donald Trump Parody clip Smoking and Drinking 3:52:29.480 --> 3:52:32.120 in the Oval Office Lol, with about two thousand and 3:52:32.240 --> 3:52:35.400 six hundred views. It's a woman cause playing a gender 3:52:35.480 --> 3:52:38.960 bent Trump and just like casually monologuing at the camera 3:52:39.120 --> 3:52:41.800 for like eighteen minutes. At one point she takes off 3:52:41.840 --> 3:52:43.560 her suit jacket and unbuttons her shirt, but not in 3:52:43.680 --> 3:52:46.520 like a strip teas way. At eleven minutes in she 3:52:46.600 --> 3:52:50.600 quote unquote rubs one out her words while continuing the 3:52:50.760 --> 3:52:53.600 half in character, ranting it was it's kind of a 3:52:53.640 --> 3:52:55.840 weird outlier, but I thought to mention it. Now onto 3:52:55.920 --> 3:52:58.480 the two major genres of Trump porn, the first one 3:52:58.560 --> 3:53:01.880 being the debate orgy Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton fucking 3:53:01.920 --> 3:53:05.120 Bernie Sanders and Megan Kelly parody. This one has a 3:53:05.160 --> 3:53:08.880 combined total of over of almost eight million. 3:53:08.760 --> 3:53:10.480 Views wave Bernie alone. 3:53:10.880 --> 3:53:13.440 This is christ This is the most popularly Donald Trump 3:53:13.520 --> 3:53:15.040 pornographic work on the internet. 3:53:15.240 --> 3:53:16.960 Oh no, the Bernie they got is kind of hot. 3:53:17.440 --> 3:53:18.120 I think we're good. 3:53:18.400 --> 3:53:21.720 This one, oddly enough, focuses on Bernie more than Trump. 3:53:22.120 --> 3:53:23.720 I think because the Bernie. 3:53:23.400 --> 3:53:25.960 Accident, because he's more fuckable. 3:53:25.640 --> 3:53:28.360 Because the Birdie actor did a really good job. Okay, 3:53:28.680 --> 3:53:31.800 and also this was this was like a live stream 3:53:31.800 --> 3:53:34.600 that's been edited together into a video, So the audience, 3:53:34.840 --> 3:53:36.920 like on the chat, was responding to Bernie Moore, so 3:53:37.000 --> 3:53:38.040 he got way more of the attention. 3:53:38.600 --> 3:53:40.200 Yeah, he just uses charisma. 3:53:40.440 --> 3:53:45.400 The sound qualities is carraboozes right now, Robert Jesus. 3:53:45.440 --> 3:53:48.120 The sound quality is terrible. Everyone's slowly reading off scripts 3:53:48.320 --> 3:53:50.560 and not even trying to hide it at all. Trump 3:53:50.560 --> 3:53:52.200 says he's going to build a wall around Mexico and 3:53:52.320 --> 3:53:55.520 install one big glory hole, which isn't how a glory 3:53:55.560 --> 3:53:56.040 hole works. 3:53:56.320 --> 3:53:57.280 No, I mean it could be. 3:53:58.400 --> 3:54:00.520 Hillary has asked if she thinks she might fall to 3:54:00.640 --> 3:54:03.240 the same infidelities as her husband, and Hillary explains that 3:54:03.440 --> 3:54:05.840 the Clinton family has a rule that whatever happens in 3:54:05.880 --> 3:54:08.320 the Oval office doesn't count unquote. 3:54:08.760 --> 3:54:11.800 That actually might be a Clinton family rule. 3:54:12.240 --> 3:54:16.040 All of the actors except for Bernie, look really uncomfortable 3:54:17.760 --> 3:54:21.080 the entire time. At one point they switched to like 3:54:21.120 --> 3:54:23.680 an unscripted Q and a section using like the live 3:54:23.720 --> 3:54:27.120 stream and it all reads like high school improv but 3:54:27.200 --> 3:54:29.440 obviously like not with high schoolers, not for high schoolers, 3:54:29.840 --> 3:54:33.240 but just like it is so awkward. About halfway through 3:54:33.280 --> 3:54:36.080 the twenty minute video, Megan Kelly asks Trump if you 3:54:36.120 --> 3:54:39.400 would like to improve his personal rating among married women 3:54:40.160 --> 3:54:43.280 as they start having sex, and then Hillary says, quote, 3:54:43.480 --> 3:54:46.360 I'd rather fuck the party than the enemy, and calls 3:54:46.440 --> 3:54:51.560 on Bernie. There is a lot of feel the burn 3:54:51.680 --> 3:54:53.360 jokes in here, so. 3:54:53.520 --> 3:54:58.880 Many, there's a couple of good there. We should We 3:54:58.920 --> 3:55:01.080 should figure out that burn party actor though, get them 3:55:01.080 --> 3:55:05.080 on the pod, honestly. Staff. 3:55:06.640 --> 3:55:09.040 The second most popular one is titled Erection to twenty 3:55:09.120 --> 3:55:13.480 sixteen Donald trumpf Fox Hillary Clinton during debate. It has 3:55:13.640 --> 3:55:16.200 over five million views. Once again, we start with a 3:55:16.240 --> 3:55:18.600 build a wall bit, but at this time it's Hillary 3:55:18.640 --> 3:55:20.680 who makes a move on Trump. The third most popular 3:55:20.720 --> 3:55:23.080 one is called cream Pie Debate. This is the closest 3:55:23.120 --> 3:55:26.480 one in the entire collection. It has three to a 3:55:26.480 --> 3:55:32.600 half million views. Much more accurate ages, but the impressions 3:55:32.600 --> 3:55:35.760 are really bizarre. Like they all have like weird accents. 3:55:35.760 --> 3:55:38.160 I can't quite tell where they're from, but they all 3:55:38.240 --> 3:55:39.040 sound there. 3:55:38.880 --> 3:55:40.960 Almost certainly somewhere in eastern Europe. 3:55:41.520 --> 3:55:43.720 No, they're American. 3:55:44.680 --> 3:55:44.800 Now. 3:55:47.920 --> 3:55:49.920 Trump waves around a gun on the debate stage, talking 3:55:49.920 --> 3:55:52.360 about Hillary wants to take away the Second Amendment. He 3:55:52.520 --> 3:55:54.440 points the gun at her, threatens to blow the wench 3:55:54.480 --> 3:55:57.480 away because she's trying to rig the election. The winch, 3:55:58.080 --> 3:56:02.240 the wench. That's a quote, when and calls her crooked 3:56:02.320 --> 3:56:04.920 Hillary with quote unquote crooked genitals. 3:56:06.680 --> 3:56:07.560 You know, he. 3:56:08.360 --> 3:56:11.200 Actual Trump might say that at some point. But you 3:56:11.240 --> 3:56:12.920 can kind of see how the video will develop from 3:56:12.920 --> 3:56:15.320 here right right now. I was not prepared for how 3:56:15.400 --> 3:56:18.760 racist it would get. Trump gets like this, this like 3:56:19.160 --> 3:56:23.240 dark dildo, and it starts screaming and growling in like 3:56:23.360 --> 3:56:26.080 a really upsetting fashion. There's a whole bunch of really 3:56:26.160 --> 3:56:29.240 racist comments. Hillary implies that she took part in all 3:56:29.280 --> 3:56:32.800 of the sexual growling. It's the best. It's the best 3:56:32.840 --> 3:56:34.920 word I could find to describe the sea. 3:56:34.960 --> 3:56:36.520 I think, I think I get what Garrison is. 3:56:36.880 --> 3:56:40.960 I was gonna say, I noted, don't expand uh yeah. 3:56:41.640 --> 3:56:43.360 Hillary talks about how she took part in all of 3:56:43.600 --> 3:56:45.960 Bill Clinton's sexual escapades and then uses a strap on 3:56:46.000 --> 3:56:48.040 on Donald Trump, but it's simulated. They don't actually do 3:56:48.120 --> 3:56:51.080 it in the clip, so minus points for that. The 3:56:51.200 --> 3:56:54.520 actor for Trump makes some really interesting faces, and at 3:56:54.520 --> 3:56:58.280 the end of the video, Hillary shoots out Trump's votes 3:56:58.320 --> 3:57:02.240 from her ballot box, which covers Trump's face in the 3:57:04.120 --> 3:57:08.400 rejected votes, which he wipes off with an American flag, 3:57:08.680 --> 3:57:13.200 something that multiple commenters took great offense to. Not the 3:57:13.280 --> 3:57:15.760 rest of the video, but the fact that he wipes 3:57:15.800 --> 3:57:18.840 it off with an American flag seemed to really upset 3:57:18.960 --> 3:57:19.360 some people. 3:57:20.040 --> 3:57:20.200 Now. 3:57:20.400 --> 3:57:22.720 The guy that made this created four other Trump themed 3:57:22.760 --> 3:57:25.520 porn videos, a Deep Throat Diplomacy where Trump dribes the 3:57:25.560 --> 3:57:28.200 president of Mexico to pay for the wall by offering 3:57:28.240 --> 3:57:31.680 a quote beautiful white woman who happens to be Trump's daughter, Avanka. 3:57:31.960 --> 3:57:35.880 He makes another Avanka one called Bobblehead butt Plug, which 3:57:35.880 --> 3:57:38.360 I think is pretty self explanatory. The third one is 3:57:38.800 --> 3:57:42.080 Trump and Obama's Daughter, which I skipped through mostly because 3:57:42.080 --> 3:57:45.120 it was really gross. And the last one's called Cuckold 3:57:45.200 --> 3:57:48.240 Trump with again three and a half million views. And 3:57:48.560 --> 3:57:51.320 this one has President and Obama and the Secret Service 3:57:51.400 --> 3:57:54.120 breaking into Trump Tower where Trump and Blaney are sleeping 3:57:54.160 --> 3:57:57.040 in bed, and then a cuck scene unfolds, once again 3:57:57.200 --> 3:58:00.280 very racist. We're nearing the end, I can I can 3:58:00.280 --> 3:58:01.960 see the tunnel at the end. We're now going to 3:58:02.000 --> 3:58:06.280 get to the last debate, one called Donald Tramp in 3:58:06.360 --> 3:58:09.200 the White House. This is going to be huge. With 3:58:09.520 --> 3:58:11.560 only a quarter of a million views, pretty low, but 3:58:11.880 --> 3:58:14.720 seventy percent up voted, So there you go. Now, in 3:58:14.840 --> 3:58:17.680 this one, Trump is doing a solo debate by himself, 3:58:17.800 --> 3:58:20.160 kind of predicting how he would handle the Republican primary in. 3:58:20.160 --> 3:58:22.120 Twenty twenty four ahead of its time. 3:58:22.480 --> 3:58:24.080 But in the context of the video, it's basically just 3:58:24.120 --> 3:58:27.480 a journalist that's interviewing him. So after some like, you know, 3:58:27.760 --> 3:58:31.320 very very typical haha, Trump is racist type jokes, the 3:58:31.400 --> 3:58:35.240 skit turns oddly poigniant, where Trump kind of starts whispering 3:58:35.800 --> 3:58:39.840 and says, quote, I'm using my ranting billionaire charm to 3:58:39.960 --> 3:58:41.800 win you over. First, I'm going to tell you that 3:58:41.880 --> 3:58:44.400 America is really lost and I'm the one to find it. 3:58:44.840 --> 3:58:46.600 And then you will be drawn to all of my 3:58:46.720 --> 3:58:50.080 ideas like a very special episode of Shark Tank. And 3:58:50.160 --> 3:58:52.040 then I will tell you how all the other candidates 3:58:52.120 --> 3:58:55.000 are stupid, idiotic morons, and you'll be left wondering is 3:58:55.040 --> 3:58:57.560 he trying to get his subrenet band or is everything 3:58:57.640 --> 3:59:00.720 he's saying really what he means. Now, let's have sex. 3:59:00.800 --> 3:59:03.200 As I whisper racist comments into your ear unquote this 3:59:03.360 --> 3:59:06.440 Trump actor. The hair is too orange. The hair is 3:59:06.480 --> 3:59:07.040 too orange. 3:59:07.200 --> 3:59:08.560 Everything's too orange. 3:59:08.720 --> 3:59:11.720 He's really orange. They're really into making him orange. But 3:59:11.760 --> 3:59:14.520 the hair is just way too red. So that is 3:59:14.600 --> 3:59:16.960 the that's the that's the like the main category, which 3:59:17.000 --> 3:59:19.560 is like these like debate ones. But there's a second 3:59:19.640 --> 3:59:24.280 category which is almost equal in numbers. And this is 3:59:24.440 --> 3:59:26.840 this is the last genre of work we'll be talking about, 3:59:26.880 --> 3:59:29.840 and it's the one I find the most telling. It's 3:59:29.920 --> 3:59:33.200 it's they're all a very distinct type of like amateur 3:59:33.280 --> 3:59:37.840 video of a man in a low quality Trump mask 3:59:38.240 --> 3:59:43.840 getting beaten up, downed, pegged, interrogated, or otherwise humiliated by women. Now, 3:59:43.960 --> 3:59:46.480 these these have anywhere from like four hundred views to 3:59:46.560 --> 3:59:49.800 twenty five thousand views, so they're watched less, but the 3:59:49.880 --> 3:59:52.600 people that are making them seem really passionate. We have 3:59:52.720 --> 3:59:56.320 titles like Trump gets a Donkey punched by two sexy women, 3:59:56.360 --> 3:59:58.600 one hundred percent Real, sixty FBS ten. 3:59:58.520 --> 4:00:02.000 EVP or one hundred percent Real. 4:00:02.800 --> 4:00:06.360 Or make America beg Again, Kick my Ass President Trump, 4:00:06.560 --> 4:00:11.320 and I think most evidently two beautiful femdoms humiliate, feminize, 4:00:11.480 --> 4:00:18.440 and peg sissy in Donald Trump mask. So, okay, do 4:00:18.480 --> 4:00:20.520 you want to see the collection of masks before or 4:00:20.560 --> 4:00:23.120 after I talk about this genre? I'm gonna save it 4:00:23.160 --> 4:00:24.520 for after, and it never I'm gonna save it for after. 4:00:24.600 --> 4:00:28.400 So I've gone through like these these three different kind 4:00:28.440 --> 4:00:30.840 of medium series in this in this episode, right, we 4:00:30.960 --> 4:00:33.440 have we have uh like the drawn art, We have 4:00:33.560 --> 4:00:35.760 AO three fan fic, and we have this like you know, 4:00:36.200 --> 4:00:39.960 more classic pornography live action stuff. And each each of 4:00:40.000 --> 4:00:43.000 these has different aspects that I believe are are clearly 4:00:43.200 --> 4:00:45.960 tied to the medium, right, like like furry stuff for 4:00:46.120 --> 4:00:49.520 drawn art, the largely homosexual pairings oft AO three and 4:00:49.720 --> 4:00:53.520 the normy hetero misogyny of classic pornography. But I'm more 4:00:53.560 --> 4:00:56.240 interested in when some of these kind of medium specific 4:00:56.320 --> 4:00:59.080 aspects intersect and how that might tell us something about 4:00:59.080 --> 4:01:01.280 what's really going on here. So, based on all the 4:01:01.320 --> 4:01:04.160 evidence I reviewed the past five days, I'm gonna split 4:01:04.320 --> 4:01:08.000 the Donald Trump pornographic catalog into two main kind of 4:01:08.160 --> 4:01:11.680 thematic sections, the two genders, if you will. First, we 4:01:11.840 --> 4:01:16.120 have Trump the strong man right. This is either propagated 4:01:16.200 --> 4:01:19.000 by like people on the right who genuinely admire Trump 4:01:19.080 --> 4:01:23.280 as like a dominant dictator, thus like displaying sexual submission 4:01:23.360 --> 4:01:25.520 to him is like a righteous duty, or like a 4:01:25.600 --> 4:01:30.200 sign of respect or a quest for validation. Alternatively, this 4:01:30.400 --> 4:01:32.440 strong men framing can also be used, and I would 4:01:32.480 --> 4:01:35.360 argue more perversely by liberals in some form of like 4:01:35.440 --> 4:01:39.600 a post irony desire for subjugation stemming from a like 4:01:39.680 --> 4:01:44.560 a neoliberal disenfranchisement or like neoliberal nihilism. Having a like 4:01:44.640 --> 4:01:48.320 a Freudian father figure you deeply despise strengthens the taboo 4:01:48.320 --> 4:01:52.120 aspect of repressed desire for the inherent domination of authoritarianism. 4:01:52.560 --> 4:01:57.680 I think the master slave kink is very common in 4:01:57.720 --> 4:02:01.080 the Trump AO three fix, presumably mostly written by people 4:02:01.120 --> 4:02:03.280 on the left, and this type of thing I think 4:02:03.320 --> 4:02:06.120 can be vulgarly tied to like the Lord Bondsman dialectic 4:02:06.160 --> 4:02:08.280 at play in this sort of politic, which is like 4:02:08.400 --> 4:02:12.600 defined by and desiring what you cannot be, So we 4:02:12.720 --> 4:02:14.720 have that plus all like the fucked up yet very 4:02:15.040 --> 4:02:19.040 common incest framing strengthens these kind of psychoanalytic links. But 4:02:19.440 --> 4:02:22.320 enough of that babble to contrast Trump the strong Man. 4:02:22.600 --> 4:02:25.960 The other major category is Trump the defiled, which is 4:02:26.000 --> 4:02:29.520 exceedingly popular on Rule thirty four AO three, and this 4:02:29.680 --> 4:02:33.000 kind of later category of femdom porn videos. This is 4:02:33.080 --> 4:02:36.520 like a revenge fantasy. It's uncaring in its embrace of 4:02:36.600 --> 4:02:40.520 problematic tropes so long as Trump is symbolically stripped of 4:02:40.640 --> 4:02:43.880 what signals his status of power. This often includes a 4:02:43.960 --> 4:02:48.640 misogynistic embrace of social norms that reflect authoritarian patriarchy. Trump 4:02:48.760 --> 4:02:51.960 is feminized mostly through actions to signal that he is 4:02:52.080 --> 4:02:56.200 lesser right. He's a masculated, penetrated, dominated, assaulted, and very 4:02:56.280 --> 4:02:59.720 often impregnated. Even death is no escape for in the 4:02:59.800 --> 4:03:02.720 eye after life, Jesus Christ continues the holy work of 4:03:02.800 --> 4:03:07.400 Trump's psychosexual humiliation. The hope is that the Catharsists will 4:03:07.400 --> 4:03:10.000 be found in putting the image of Trump through the 4:03:10.040 --> 4:03:12.320 types of things that the actual Trump has done to others, 4:03:12.600 --> 4:03:15.320 perhaps with some kind of perverse pleasure in this role 4:03:15.400 --> 4:03:18.600 reversal of now being the one to subject Trump to 4:03:18.680 --> 4:03:22.160 such experiences even through fiction. Now, I'm not necessarily saying 4:03:22.160 --> 4:03:24.360 all this stuff is bad or there are plenty of 4:03:24.360 --> 4:03:26.720 materials that I've reviewed that I do object to, but 4:03:26.880 --> 4:03:29.240 this mostly does fall under the guise of play and kink, 4:03:29.320 --> 4:03:31.440 which can be valid and often useful ways of sorting 4:03:31.480 --> 4:03:36.800 through psychosexual or psychological affairs. And obviously throughout a lot, 4:03:36.920 --> 4:03:38.520 if not most of these works, there is a large 4:03:38.560 --> 4:03:42.320 comedic element, but I think such comedy is still underpinned 4:03:42.360 --> 4:03:46.080 by some of these maybe deeper motivations. And to detox 4:03:46.160 --> 4:03:50.360 from that rant, here's a collection of really uncomfortable Trump 4:03:50.560 --> 4:03:56.120 mask pictures which, oh my, I have so many, I 4:03:56.280 --> 4:03:59.160 have so many of these. I have a whole collage, 4:03:59.560 --> 4:04:00.680 a whole alage of this. 4:04:01.440 --> 4:04:04.680 It's really I've got hr on the other line here, 4:04:04.800 --> 4:04:07.000 So we're gonna we're gonna actually swing over to a 4:04:07.080 --> 4:04:09.640 separate zoom call to talk through some of this. 4:04:10.120 --> 4:04:11.000 These looks so. 4:04:11.360 --> 4:04:15.880 Bad, it's the Iheartedaddy shirt with the horrible Trump mask. 4:04:16.080 --> 4:04:19.440 It's so bad. No, it's like it's weirdly trans misogynistic 4:04:19.680 --> 4:04:21.600 for all of all of these ones in the mask. 4:04:21.680 --> 4:04:24.720 It's just there's a deep he's a deep uncanny. He 4:04:24.880 --> 4:04:27.200 looks like he looks melting. 4:04:27.440 --> 4:04:32.440 David Bowie does bottom once it looks like the thin 4:04:32.560 --> 4:04:33.280 white Duke. 4:04:33.720 --> 4:04:37.880 If the thin white Duke like, oh God, got coke 4:04:37.960 --> 4:04:42.320 bloated or something terrifying stuff. I will I will post 4:04:42.400 --> 4:04:44.560 some of these mask images onto Twitter so you can 4:04:44.640 --> 4:04:46.720 check that on at Hungry bow Tie. 4:04:46.800 --> 4:04:47.080 I will. 4:04:47.200 --> 4:04:50.520 I will reply once this episode drops with with these 4:04:50.600 --> 4:04:54.040 awful with you with these awful collages I've created? Anyway, Robert, 4:04:54.080 --> 4:04:57.120 what what do you think about all this Trump porn again? 4:04:57.160 --> 4:04:59.120 I think we're all going to get fired for doing 4:04:59.200 --> 4:05:04.040 this episode. I think this has crossed every professional line 4:05:04.080 --> 4:05:05.840 that exists. But good work. 4:05:05.960 --> 4:05:08.360 Other than that, I was gonna say, I think yours 4:05:08.680 --> 4:05:10.200 serve is a really big race. 4:05:10.720 --> 4:05:11.040 I was. 4:05:11.160 --> 4:05:12.680 I was really proud I was able to sneak in 4:05:12.720 --> 4:05:14.040 a little bit of Hagel there at the end. 4:05:14.160 --> 4:05:14.400 I was. 4:05:14.560 --> 4:05:14.800 I was. 4:05:15.000 --> 4:05:16.120 I was really proud of that one. 4:05:16.720 --> 4:05:18.720 I can say one thing for sure, you can do 4:05:18.840 --> 4:05:19.440 a follow up. 4:05:19.520 --> 4:05:23.720 That's all of the hegel porn Really curious how much 4:05:23.800 --> 4:05:24.800 of that you can fight. 4:05:25.400 --> 4:05:28.360 What's exciting, what's exciting about this entire thing is Trump 4:05:28.360 --> 4:05:32.040 would fucking hate it, just like he hates all of 4:05:32.200 --> 4:05:33.560 his followers. 4:05:33.920 --> 4:05:36.760 In his core many such cases. Well, thank you for 4:05:36.960 --> 4:05:39.200 joining us on this deeply disturbing journey. 4:05:39.680 --> 4:05:40.640 I love to see it. 4:05:41.000 --> 4:05:43.480 Don't do this, thankfully, you only have. 4:05:43.520 --> 4:05:44.080 To listen to it. 4:05:44.240 --> 4:05:46.280 You'll you'll only have to listen to me explain it now, 4:05:46.320 --> 4:05:48.400 So now you don't have to fulfill this curiosity that 4:05:48.480 --> 4:05:49.840 I know has been bubbling in a lot of you. 4:05:50.040 --> 4:05:52.680 So there you are, and check back in next week. 4:05:52.760 --> 4:05:56.320 We'll be covering all of the best Hegelian pornography that 4:05:56.880 --> 4:05:58.000 the Internet can provide. 4:05:58.640 --> 4:05:59.600 Take a long weekend. 4:06:03.080 --> 4:06:05.600 Hi, everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to 4:06:05.680 --> 4:06:07.440 read you this today. I'm going to put it in 4:06:07.480 --> 4:06:10.200 our episode this week because it's a cause that's important 4:06:10.200 --> 4:06:12.640 to us, and so we thought it would be something 4:06:12.680 --> 4:06:14.640 that might be important to you too as well. On 4:06:14.720 --> 4:06:17.720 the tenth of June twenty twenty four, Leonard Peltier, an 4:06:17.800 --> 4:06:20.560 enrolled member of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of Lakota 4:06:20.640 --> 4:06:23.800 and Ajibwei ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner in 4:06:23.840 --> 4:06:26.840 the United States, will be appearing before the US Parole 4:06:26.840 --> 4:06:29.240 Commission for the first time since two thousand and nine. 4:06:29.960 --> 4:06:32.920 He faces staunch opposition from the FBI and other law 4:06:33.000 --> 4:06:37.360 enforcement agencies due to having allegedly killed two FBI agents 4:06:37.440 --> 4:06:39.920 in a firefight on the twenty sixth of June nineteen 4:06:39.920 --> 4:06:43.720 seventy five, after the agents appeared on reservation land to 4:06:43.840 --> 4:06:48.400 execute a pretextural warrant. The initial firefight occurred during the 4:06:48.600 --> 4:06:51.440 quote reign of Terror on Pine Ridge in the wake 4:06:51.520 --> 4:06:54.080 of the occupation of Wounded Kney, a time of extreme 4:06:54.200 --> 4:06:57.320 violence when federal law enforcement installed a puppet tribal chair 4:06:57.680 --> 4:07:02.160 and was arming vigilantes who targeted and as traditionalists. Every 4:07:02.200 --> 4:07:04.640 since leading up to these events, as well as subsequent 4:07:04.720 --> 4:07:10.160 investigation and mister Peltier's extradition, trial, conviction, and sentencing, were 4:07:10.240 --> 4:07:13.240 characterized by gross misconduct on the part of law enforcement, 4:07:13.520 --> 4:07:17.960 the prosecution, and the courts. Mister Peltier's co defendants were 4:07:17.960 --> 4:07:21.720 separately tried and acquitted on grounds of self defense. Mister 4:07:21.760 --> 4:07:25.040 Peltier was railroaded and his case is tainted by discrimination 4:07:25.080 --> 4:07:28.520 at every level, ranging from the withholding of exculpatory evidence 4:07:28.720 --> 4:07:31.400 to the torture and coercion of extradition and trial witnesses, 4:07:32.120 --> 4:07:34.200 and from the refusal of the judge to dismiss and 4:07:34.320 --> 4:07:38.240 vowedly racist Dura, to the apologetic gymnastics of the courts 4:07:38.240 --> 4:07:41.400 affirming his convictions in the face of meritorious legal challenges 4:07:41.800 --> 4:07:46.280 had admitted evidence of outrageous government misdeeds. Mister Peltier has 4:07:46.360 --> 4:07:49.360 been in prison for more than forty eight years and 4:07:49.440 --> 4:07:52.960 he's almost eighty years old. He suffers from chronic and 4:07:53.040 --> 4:07:57.200 potentially lethal conditions for which he receives insufficient and substandard 4:07:57.280 --> 4:08:01.360 medical care. If you want to take acttion to hashtag 4:08:01.440 --> 4:08:04.840 free Lennard Peltier, you can call the US Parole Commission 4:08:04.960 --> 4:08:10.640 at two zero two three four six seven zero zero zero, 4:08:11.160 --> 4:08:12.960 and if you'd like to find more information on how 4:08:13.040 --> 4:08:15.080 to support, you can go to this r L. It's 4:08:15.560 --> 4:08:20.200 h T T P colon slash slash n d n 4:08:20.760 --> 4:08:27.480 C O dot c c slash Free Leonard Peltier. That's 4:08:27.720 --> 4:08:30.520 f ir E E L E O n A R 4:08:30.680 --> 4:08:34.400 D P E L t I E R, or you 4:08:34.480 --> 4:08:37.080 can follow n d N Collective on social media for 4:08:37.200 --> 4:08:40.600 more ways to support him, more information on Lennard Peltier. 4:08:40.720 --> 4:08:43.920 Listen to Margaret's podcast on the Lakota Nation, a read 4:08:43.960 --> 4:08:46.680 in the Spirit of the Crazy Horse by Peter Mathison. 4:08:49.840 --> 4:08:53.000 Hey, We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week 4:08:53.080 --> 4:08:54.960 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 4:08:55.600 --> 4:08:57.920 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 4:08:58.160 --> 4:09:00.800 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4:09:00.880 --> 4:09:04.000 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 4:09:04.040 --> 4:09:07.200 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 4:09:07.240 --> 4:09:09.880 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 4:09:09.960 --> 4:09:13.160 Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,