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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've never lied

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Speaker 2: to you. I never have lied.

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Speaker 3: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 3: don't welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 3: belief and the abusive power from two humans who've actually

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Speaker 3: lived it.

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Speaker 1: I am Lola.

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Speaker 4: Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: Today we are talking to Vikram Gandhi, also known as

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Speaker 3: his alter ego persona Kumara. Vikram made a documentary back

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Speaker 3: in I think twenty twelve, I want to say, called Kumara,

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Speaker 3: in which he adopts a persona of an Indian guru.

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Speaker 3: He puts on an accent and basically gets all of

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Speaker 3: these followers on board.

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Speaker 1: We are going to talk about how he did it,

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Speaker 1: why he did it.

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Speaker 3: How he feels about it now, and how everyone reacted

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Speaker 3: when he revealed his true identity.

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Speaker 4: He was able to convince so many people that he

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Speaker 4: was something that he's not just by pretending to be it,

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Speaker 4: which is what so many people we talk about on

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Speaker 4: this show have.

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Speaker 3: Done, yes, but they don't typically come out at.

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Speaker 1: The end and admit it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a fun twist.

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Speaker 3: We will also discuss the prevalence of gurus and Indian culture,

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Speaker 3: whether it matters if someone is a fake, if they're

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Speaker 3: actually helping you, and what spirituality is and why we

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Speaker 3: all just kind of give it a little too much

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Speaker 3: meaning Before we jump in, Megan, I would like to

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Speaker 3: know what the cult decing that happened to you this

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Speaker 3: week was.

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Speaker 4: Okay, here we go. Are you ready? I'm in what

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Speaker 4: we call a relationship aha, and you know, I found

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Speaker 4: myself making it the center of my world and trying

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Speaker 4: to convince somebody to comply to my rules. So I

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Speaker 4: was kind of the cult leader. You know, whenever there's

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Speaker 4: a power struggle, it's easy for it to go bad. Wait,

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Speaker 4: oh yeah, what about you? What's the cultiest thing that

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Speaker 4: happened to you this week?

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Speaker 3: Hang on, I wanna let's talk about your power struggle. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so you you would say you have been the one

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Speaker 3: with the power. Were you abusing your power and your relationship?

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Speaker 3: I was abusing my power?

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Speaker 4: Oh no, Megan, yep mm hmm, and I wanted to

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Speaker 4: abuse it even more. I mean, you know, I'm using

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Speaker 4: this so lightly and loosely, just like basic wanting my

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Speaker 4: own way type of things. And you know, it's been

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Speaker 4: a couple months since I've left my house, so tensions

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Speaker 4: are high. And yeah, it's just so easy to think

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Speaker 4: that you know what's best, and it's really frustrating when

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Speaker 4: somebody else says, no, that's not what's best.

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Speaker 1: Wow a relationship.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's really healthy that you're able

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Speaker 3: to recognize it and hopefully make some compromises and get

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Speaker 3: to a less culty place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in that dynamic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm ready, I'm willing.

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Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The cultiest thing this week was was that actually somebody

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Speaker 3: heard episode one of this podcast and it triggered him

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Speaker 3: because my mom didn't tell her story the way that

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Speaker 3: he wanted her to, which like, this is not her responsibility.

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Speaker 3: He has nothing to do with her story. His story

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Speaker 3: is completely separate. But it triggered him in such a

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Speaker 3: way that he demanded that we take the episode down.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not going to do that because I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to silence my mother and I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: silence myself. And it's such it just makes me think

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Speaker 3: of what a classic tactic it is when you look

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Speaker 3: at Keith rnier Ay from Next Tom and how he

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Speaker 3: you know, sent Barbara Bouschet, who I actually know into

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Speaker 3: financial ruin from trying to sue her to get her

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Speaker 3: to stop talking. And my my guy has tried to

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Speaker 3: sue me before as well, and my mother, and he's

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Speaker 3: tried to see a lot of people, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just such a it's such a silencing tactic. And

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Speaker 3: it makes me so angry that, Like, when somebody finally

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Speaker 3: gets up the courage to to share their story and

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Speaker 3: to to you know, be vulnerable like that and put

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Speaker 3: themselves out there, which is such a terrifying thing to do,

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Speaker 3: and it's such a brave choice to make. So for

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Speaker 3: that to then be punished and someone to try to

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Speaker 3: silence that, it just.

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Speaker 1: Like who it makes me mad. It makes me mad.

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Speaker 3: I mean even look at Jeffrey Epstein, the way he

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Speaker 3: silenced his victims because he had so much fucking money. Like,

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Speaker 3: I just wish there were more of a cultural awareness

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Speaker 3: around the way the victims are silenced and around how

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Speaker 3: easy it is to just shut people up when you

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Speaker 3: have money. Yeah, but in this case that's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 4: Like how did things get left tbd?

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Speaker 3: Okay, But I am willing to talk to people who

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Speaker 3: are make who make reasonable requests, who want to.

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Speaker 1: Share their perspective or share their side of the story.

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Speaker 3: I'm not willing to listen to people who make threats

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Speaker 3: and who make demands that that's not acceptable.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, you sound like my boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Spoiler, I'm your boyfriend. Oh fuck.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, colts are crazy and cults are crazy. Coul is

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Speaker 4: something else because it's admittedly false. So follow us to

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Speaker 4: talk to Vicram.

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Speaker 3: Here we go, let's talk to him. Hello and welcome

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Speaker 3: victorm Gandhi, thank you for coming and talking to us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me to be on this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I cannot remember who recommended Kumari to me,

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Speaker 3: but as soon as I heard what it was about,

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Speaker 3: I was immediately intrigued. You basically posed as a guru

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Speaker 3: and convinced a group of people that you were a

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Speaker 3: spiritual leader, and you revealed to them at the end

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Speaker 3: that you are not. And it is so interesting to watch.

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Speaker 3: And I want to start at the beginning with you,

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Speaker 3: and can you just tell us how did you decide

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Speaker 3: to create the persona of Kamari.

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Speaker 2: I think the idea of me becoming a spiritual leader

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Speaker 2: is something that it's like a joke that I've had

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Speaker 2: since I was a little kid, and it's probably a

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Speaker 2: joke that a lot of Indian Americans had. In fact,

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Speaker 2: after I made the movie, I'd have older Indian men going, oh,

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Speaker 2: I was going to do that.

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Speaker 1: I had that idea.

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Speaker 2: It's a very it's an ingrained part of I think,

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Speaker 2: the Indian spiritual tradition, the stories of people becoming gurus,

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Speaker 2: the myths around that, and the idea that sometimes a

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Speaker 2: fake guru is a real guru, and sometimes a real

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Speaker 2: guru is a fake guru, and kind of just the

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Speaker 2: overall philosophy of the idea that the teacher is an illusion.

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Speaker 2: All of that stuff is something that had already been

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Speaker 2: ingrained in me, and already been ingrained in questioning the

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Speaker 2: authority of spirituality.

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Speaker 4: I was wondering, and this might be a really stupid question,

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Speaker 4: but what exactly your definition of a guru is?

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Speaker 2: It's the person who removes darkness. That's like what it

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Speaker 2: means in sunsprit, right, And the definition of it in

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Speaker 2: a more modern way is a spiritual teacher or somebody

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Speaker 2: who teaches a way to live. And really the impetus

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Speaker 2: of me deciding that I wanted to do it was

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Speaker 2: just observing the world around me being surrounded by Indian gurus,

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Speaker 2: watching Americans deciding that they were going to become gurus

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Speaker 2: because they had they had taken a pilgrimage to India,

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Speaker 2: or had studied yoga, or they somehow found some moment

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Speaker 2: of spiritual superiority to other people around them. Watching that

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Speaker 2: as a movement grow the yoga industry and grow it

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Speaker 2: made me say, you know, let's be real. Anyone can

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Speaker 2: do this if you decide to, and the decision and

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Speaker 2: then actually the process of becoming Kumara happened because I

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Speaker 2: was so fascinated in America's desire to turn yoga and

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Speaker 2: Indian spirituality into an industry which is not specific to yoga,

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Speaker 2: but it's sort of something that happens in America by

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Speaker 2: its DNA that I wanted to make a movie about

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Speaker 2: all the people that I was watching turned to spirituality

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Speaker 2: and I started making a film about the yoga industry.

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Speaker 2: I wanted it to be skeptical. I wanted to also

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Speaker 2: be you know, open minded, but at the heart of it,

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Speaker 2: it was I wanted to make a critique about how

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Speaker 2: American spirituality works. In the process of making it, I

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Speaker 2: met so many people that this voice inside of me

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Speaker 2: is saying kept saying it would be so much funnier

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Speaker 2: if you pretend to be one of these people. And

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Speaker 2: by doing that, I would not be I would not

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Speaker 2: be criticizing people. I wouldn't be judging them for being

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Speaker 2: whether they were spiritual or not, at judging their followers

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Speaker 2: and all that. But I would just be sort of

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Speaker 2: saying everything I wanted to in a more intellectual and

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Speaker 2: kind of hilarious way. And that's how it happened, where

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Speaker 2: I just said, I started making this other documentary about

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Speaker 2: American yoga, and I was like, it would just be

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Speaker 2: so much funnier if I just did it and had

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Speaker 2: a couple people around me who thought it was hilarious.

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Speaker 2: Kumari is my middle name, So I just put a

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Speaker 2: little over it and anyway tested it out and made

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Speaker 2: a little show real of, hey, this is what this

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Speaker 2: experiment looks like. And that's kind of how it got started.

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Speaker 3: So you grow out your beard really long. I mean

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Speaker 3: maybe it was already really long, but you have this

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Speaker 3: long beard and you have this long hair, and you

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Speaker 3: adopt an accent that you do not have, and you

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Speaker 3: start telling people that you're a guru. So you go

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Speaker 3: to Phoenix where no one will recognize you. You have

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Speaker 3: two women you know, are opposing as your followers and

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Speaker 3: booking you gigs at yoga studios. You're telling people that

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Speaker 3: the guru is actually inside of them, it's not you,

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Speaker 3: and you're really just a mirror. But you're still very

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Speaker 3: much being marketed as an authentic spiritual leader. So what happens,

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Speaker 3: like how do people do people react to you as

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Speaker 3: strongly and easily as it seems like they do in

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Speaker 3: the documentary or were there people who were skeptical?

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Speaker 1: Like what was that?

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Speaker 2: Like, well, there's a thing about scamming that I learned,

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Speaker 2: and it's also I think it's not scamming, it's selling, right,

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Speaker 2: it's not intuitive. Somebody told me this story about the

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Speaker 2: Nigerian prince scam. Okay, so it's like, why are those

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Speaker 2: guys constantly saying the Nigerian princes? Like why are you

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Speaker 2: just still using the Nigerian prince thing? Hasn't everybody heard

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Speaker 2: of the Nigerian prince scam? Like it's a joke, But

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Speaker 2: here's a thing. It works, And if you'd heard the joke,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna say this is a scam. And if you

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Speaker 2: hadn't heard the joke or anything like it, you might

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Speaker 2: be like, wow, this is really interesting, right. If somebody

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Speaker 2: decided that they were gonna be like, well the Nigerian

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Speaker 2: prince thing is is it working anymore? Let's switch it

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Speaker 2: to like a Spanish conquistador or whatever. Fu. You know,

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Speaker 2: people will be like that sounds fake. The point of this,

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Speaker 2: this sort of tangent, is that you can weed out

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Speaker 2: the people who are skeptical by just being straightforward. So

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Speaker 2: what we did was we said, do you want to

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Speaker 2: meet a real guru from the Himalias. It wasn't like

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Speaker 2: check out this guy, he's kind of like authentic. It's

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Speaker 2: just like, this is a real deal guy. So if

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Speaker 2: you had any part of yourself that was open minded

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Speaker 2: to them, if you were looking for a guru, if

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Speaker 2: you were going through a phase in your life where

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Speaker 2: you where you needed to turn to someone else for positivity,

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Speaker 2: which happens to everybody, if you were primed at that

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Speaker 2: stage that you needed a guru, this was an easier

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Speaker 2: way to do it. So we put that out there

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Speaker 2: that he was a real guru. We found that that

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Speaker 2: drew people, and also people are really open minded to it,

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Speaker 2: you know, because that's what someone was looking for. So

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Speaker 2: we put it out there. We got a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who are skeptical, you know. Some of the people.

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Speaker 2: Some people who are skeptical invited me to teach, They

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Speaker 2: invited their students. Some people went back and forth, like

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Speaker 2: the women in the in the film who was upset

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Speaker 2: at me. After the film was made, she opened up

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Speaker 2: a lot of the people in her center to meeting us.

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Speaker 2: Prior to that, she was first super engaged in meeting Kumara.

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Speaker 2: Then our website didn't work and she thought this guy's

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Speaker 2: a odd and I had said, well, I actually made

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Speaker 2: a shitty website on purpose because I thought this guy

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Speaker 2: you can't have a real good website. Anyway, we fixed

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Speaker 2: our website. We went to Phoenix, we met her, and

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Speaker 2: then she met me and said, this is the real deal.

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Speaker 2: You know. So what we were doing is we were

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Speaker 2: just saying, let's not you know, unlike the for the

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Speaker 2: fastest and quickest way in, unlike a lot of the

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Speaker 2: cult leaders we hear about. What we decided was let's

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Speaker 2: just put it out there. Kumari is the real deal.

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Speaker 2: You want to meet the real deal, come on board,

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Speaker 2: and we put it out there. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: were not receptive, and a lot of people were so

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Speaker 2: receptive and moved that we knew who we could bring

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Speaker 2: along on our journey. So right, that's how we did it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the people are talking about how they

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Speaker 3: like see a light in you, and they're like getting

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Speaker 3: misty eyed when you talk to them, and they're really

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Speaker 3: really seems like they're really genuinely moved by your presence,

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Speaker 3: which is just so interesting. I mean, well, first of all,

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Speaker 3: do you think if do you think that it would

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Speaker 3: have been different if you were white?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean my friend, my friend of my friends, told

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Speaker 2: me like, why are you doing this Kumari thing? Just

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Speaker 2: go as Victraim Gandhi Like yeah, I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I would have been I would probably have

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Speaker 2: way more Instagram followers, but I did it myself. I

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Speaker 2: would then have to turn myself into a self help

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Speaker 2: teacher and I'd probably be much more successful, to be

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Speaker 2: quite honest, But I obviously it's not my path in life.

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Speaker 2: I'm not interested in being a self help teacher. So

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Speaker 2: that being said, yeah, I don't. I think it was

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Speaker 2: so much of the film that I made is a

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Speaker 2: story about being Indian American. It may not be clear

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Speaker 2: to everyone but the form it took, but it is

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Speaker 2: a story about about me growing up in America. Underneath

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Speaker 2: it all like what is the projection people have on

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Speaker 2: this other race that they don't know much about.

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Speaker 4: We?

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Speaker 2: You know, in some ways, the fascination with the East

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Speaker 2: is something that's never died over since you know, the

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Speaker 2: Renaissance or whatever. We think that there's someone else far away.

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Speaker 2: So it's so much about that. I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much inside of that story that

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Speaker 2: reflects on the Indian American experience that I had growing

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Speaker 2: up that it's so much about race. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know if everybody sees that. I didn't want the focus

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Speaker 2: of the film and the message to be about that.

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Speaker 2: It was one aspect of a spiritual seeking in people

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Speaker 2: and the fragility of faith, but it very much about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it is striking that most of the

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Speaker 3: followers are white people and kind of immediately you know,

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Speaker 3: see this thing in you.

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Speaker 4: Did you leave the experience feeling better about Americans and

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Speaker 4: how they treated you are worse where you just kind

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Speaker 4: of disgusted with the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know what I've felt about

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Speaker 2: American I mean, I just I'm American. I'm not like

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Speaker 2: judging America. I mean I think that more. It's like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I could have done this in India, like

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Speaker 2: Indian gurus are doing this day and day out in India.

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Speaker 2: It's not like Americans are more gullible. There's mega gurus

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Speaker 2: all over India. It's a very natural thing to have

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Speaker 2: these they call them god men, walk around villages, do

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Speaker 2: a few magic tricks and get people to give them money.

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Speaker 2: Like this is a part of Indian culture, and it's

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Speaker 2: a part of Indian culture to be skeptical of it,

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Speaker 2: and it's part of Indian culture to be completely conned

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Speaker 2: by it, just like we have con men in every

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Speaker 2: religion in the world. It's the similarity. Now, I think

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Speaker 2: that what it did reveal in a way is that

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Speaker 2: that this guru character was filling roles in American culture

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Speaker 2: that are different. There are people who wanted a friend,

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Speaker 2: there are people who wanted a son, people who wanted

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Speaker 2: like a lover, and people, you know, there are people

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Speaker 2: who were projecting different things on me. And in the

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Speaker 2: demographics of people we found, I definitely found that they

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Speaker 2: were all coming to me for different reasons, and they

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Speaker 2: were I've got that sense of just anybody you know,

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Speaker 2: on a it's still me underneath. So my experience is

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Speaker 2: like feeling what people's energy is and what they were

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Speaker 2: seeking was all different, you know. So I think it

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Speaker 2: just revealed what are the sort of basic reasons that

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Speaker 2: we seek other people out, like loneliness, loss of direction

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Speaker 2: in life, relationships, trying to figure out how you fit

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Speaker 2: in the world, you know, broken marriages, this this guy

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Speaker 2: is a blank slate. People found what he was giving

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Speaker 2: off to fill a different void for each of them.

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Speaker 2: So that that's what my mores saw was like I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think we have our own brand of

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Speaker 2: in some ways, there's a brand of loneliness in America

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Speaker 2: that I don't know if exists in a lot of

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Speaker 2: other places. You know, it didn't exist in India. In India,

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Speaker 2: you can't get away from people, you're crowded. In America,

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Speaker 2: so many people felt really alone. I think that was

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Speaker 2: one striking thing that was clear indifferent about America. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean it just revealed things that are that we

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Speaker 2: all know is wrong with our lives, that we don't

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Speaker 2: really get to access too often.

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Speaker 3: Right, you know, so you're it seems like it looks

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Speaker 3: like you're forging genuinely very intimate connections with people. They're

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Speaker 3: sharing really personal things about their lives. One woman comes

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Speaker 3: to you wanting to make a decision about whether leave

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Speaker 3: her husband. Seems like there might be some romantic transference

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Speaker 3: happening there onto you, and she actually does leave her husband.

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Speaker 3: A former drug addict begins looking at you as a

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Speaker 3: role model.

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Speaker 1: People tell you about the habits.

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Speaker 3: That you essentially inspire them to change in their lives. Like,

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Speaker 3: what was that like for you? And were you feeling

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Speaker 3: any guilt in the moment.

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Speaker 2: Never, It wasn't really guilt because it's so complicated what's happening,

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Speaker 2: you know, in some ways I was so idealistic on

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Speaker 2: this subject. It's like you're watching a culture, You're watching people.

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Speaker 2: What I really what My intention was that, as somebody

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Speaker 2: who grew up with this deep skepticism of gurus and

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Speaker 2: saw all of the bullshit in my own religion, to

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Speaker 2: watch America embrace it almost blindly and not have learned

350
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Speaker 2: all the lessons that are to me so deeply documented

351
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Speaker 2: in on the Indian side of things like Watch Out

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Speaker 2: for this. This is bullshit. You know, you think that

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Speaker 2: you should believe. You know they're using the people are

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Speaker 2: using the same tactics to find followers that I just

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Speaker 2: was like I would feel I felt, I said at

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Speaker 2: that time, and I still do like I would have

357
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 2: felt guilty if I didn't make the movie, Like I

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Speaker 2: would have felt guilty if I just said, hey, let

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Speaker 2: me just become one of these guys and make a

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Speaker 2: ton of money, because I see how easy it is

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Speaker 2: to fool everyone into believing a bunch of bullshit. And

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Speaker 2: not to say everything's bullshit, but I mean the way

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Speaker 2: that people were manipulating, especially during that time ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: We reached peak yoga in America, but like you hadn't

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Speaker 2: reached it yet when I make Kumara. So now everyone's

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Speaker 2: starting to see all these things that were bullshit and

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Speaker 2: now all of a sudden, Bickroom is an asshole. When

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Speaker 2: fuck I met Bickram in a second, I was like,

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Speaker 2: this guy's a fucking dick. Like it didn't take me

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Speaker 2: more than thirty seconds around that guy to think he

371
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Speaker 2: was a huge asshole. Why did it take the world,

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Speaker 2: you know, documentaries and charges, I don't know to me

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Speaker 2: he's so obviously an asshole, but everyone was with it.

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Speaker 3: For anyone who doesn't know Bram with a B different

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Speaker 3: from Vicram, who is here with a V. Bickram with

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Speaker 3: a B refers to Bickram Shouty, the founder of Bickram Yoga,

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Speaker 3: who was sued by five former students for allegations including

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Speaker 3: sexual assault, false imprisonment, and harassment.

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Speaker 4: Not a good guy, so to me.

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Speaker 2: I just felt like the movie was supposed to reveal

381
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: that without saying and pointing a finger at anyone. So

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Speaker 2: I felt like I needed to do it so I

383
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: couldn't really feel guilt, but I think I did feel

384
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Speaker 2: deeply conflicted. I felt a series of emotions that I

385
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 2: didn't really understand. Is what I'm saying actually bigger than

386
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Speaker 2: these momentary experiences. How do I speak to people if

387
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Speaker 2: I believe this philosophy, How do I do it in

388
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Speaker 2: a just way? I almost had a burden of I'm

389
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Speaker 2: trying to make a movie about ethics and morality and culture,

390
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 2: so I needed to create my own version of ethics, morality,

391
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: and culture by living through the character, so that it

392
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 2: just like what I did as character was true into

393
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Speaker 2: the message of the movie. If that makes any sense.

394
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Speaker 2: It's a weird position to be in.

395
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see someone feeling very betrayed by the

396
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Speaker 3: discovery that you are not who you say you are.

397
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Speaker 3: And a few people walk out at the end when

398
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Speaker 3: you do reveal yourself to be you. So let's get

399
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: into the what the unveiling actually is. So you essentially,

400
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 3: after spending time with these people, you come back. They're

401
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,239
Speaker 3: all gathered, they're waiting for you. You show back up

402
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 3: at this place for the unveiling, but your beard is

403
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 3: gone and you're wearing regular clothes and.

404
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: Your victrum not Kumara.

405
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 3: And a few of them get up and walk out

406
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 3: of the room, and a bunch of them who remain

407
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: break out into applause because you were telling them all

408
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: along that the guru was inside of them, it wasn't

409
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: in you, And here you are revealing yourself to be

410
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 3: a normal guy, not a guru, which is technically what

411
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 3: you were saying the whole time. It's kind of remarkable

412
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 3: they get it, they got the lesson. Have you heard

413
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: from the other people, the people who walked out, Do

414
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 3: you have a sense of what they feel about you

415
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 3: or all of it?

416
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Speaker 2: I mean, I think what it comes down to, is this, like,

417
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 2: do you believe in the power of art and filmmaking

418
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: to deliver a message to people? It comes down to

419
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: that if you don't, if you don't give a shit,

420
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: if you think all I want to do is be

421
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: a famous person in Hollywood, which did not make this film,

422
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: to not make me. It was very outsider film or

423
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: nobody even knew how to place it. Like, if you

424
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: believe that, if there's some power in that, and believe

425
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: that my reasons for doing it or justify the message,

426
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 2: that's what made people stay in contact with me. I

427
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: think that. I think that if you don't really believe

428
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: in that, or don't believe in my ability to do

429
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: that or whatever, then it's very hard to reconcile being

430
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 2: part of the movie. But I think there was enough

431
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 2: people who were involved in the movie who were like, Wow,

432
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: that's cool, or I'm in a movie, Like that's exciting

433
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: to be in a movie. You know, for good or

434
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 2: bad reasons. People were so I don't necessarily know if

435
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: the experience they had with Kamari was the thing that

436
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: decided how they felt about me and the film. I

437
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 2: performed two of the people in the film. I performed

438
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: their wedding like a year later. Oh wow, I didn't know, Like,

439
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: do you want me to be Kamarai? Do you want

440
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: me to be me? I'm like I want to be

441
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be your friend. I

442
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: don't want you to be Kumari's friend. He's not real,

443
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: Like I don't know what's gonna happen to him and where.

444
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: So we became friends. But like, and they weren't at

445
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: the unveiling. They were actually they weren't around when I unveiled.

446
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: They didn't know why it happened until the movie came out,

447
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like they so you had

448
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: just different reactions and at the end of the day, Yeah,

449
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: I think messing with spirituality is a really tricky, weird thing.

450
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: It's not. I think a lot of the people felt

451
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: like what I was doing was actually weirdly authentic. You know.

452
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 2: They got it. They got it, Like some one person

453
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: said to me, Wait, so you came all the way

454
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 2: out here to like try to help twelve thirteen people.

455
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 2: That's what you did. Some people lost like a ton

456
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: of weight, they changed their life, like they got good outcomes.

457
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I mean, I think it's just

458
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: a place beyond morality at this point for me, or

459
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just a huge asshole, Like I can't really tell,

460
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: but I can't you know, if I am, I just

461
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: got to like live with that. But you know, nothing

462
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: can change it happened. But we didn't know. I mean

463
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: I didn't know if I didn't know if the movie

464
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: was just a story about an asshole.

465
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: You know, I was just gonna ask if there was

466
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 4: any times that you surprised yourself. I know you kind

467
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 4: of said something about it, but you know, wisdom just

468
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 4: flew out of your mouth that you were like, where

469
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 4: the fuck did that come from? Are like, WHOA, that's

470
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 4: really a deep truth?

471
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: No, but didn't. I was in articulate, didn't make much sense.

472
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: I was really I did a lot of yoga. I

473
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: dressed really good. I was. I mean it was a

474
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: while ago. I looked pretty. I look pretty, you know

475
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, you know, there, I had a

476
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: good vibe. I had these like two beautiful women who

477
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: were very articulate, had a crew that was following me

478
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: that were professionals and really easy to connect with, and

479
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: we look like we were having a fucking blast, you know.

480
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 2: So we were intoxicating, Like you couldn't see the Kumari

481
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: Crew and not be like you're in Phoenix, Arizona. These

482
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 2: guys get a house. They're found this weird Indian guy.

483
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: He's barefoot, he doesn't he isn't fucking shoes. You know,

484
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: he's talking about shooting energy out of his brain his forehead,

485
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: and it's intoxicating, like I want to join that crew.

486
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: They're dancing around. They don't people don't know is he

487
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: getting laid, is having sex with everyone? Or does he

488
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: not have sex? There was a lot of appeal to

489
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: who I was and the people following me that it

490
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: made sense that even though I didn't make much sense

491
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 2: that it was like pretty down, I would have been

492
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: down with it. Yeah, I would have been. You know,

493
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: we made something that was attractive, just the energy around us.

494
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: We're out here, we're making a movie. We're doing yoga, meditating.

495
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: I have like my own yoga philosophy. These people respect me.

496
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: We live in a cool house. I'll call my people

497
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: the Kumarai clan, like we're having a good time. I

498
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 2: also was just so out there that you felt safe,

499
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: like he's not gonna tell anyone. He doesn't even know

500
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: where if I told him I'm in Scottsdale. He doesn't

501
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: even know where Scottsdale is. You know. Let me tell

502
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: you about my husband and how I'm in love with him.

503
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: Like he's like this, This guy is never gonna tell anyone.

504
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: He's not gonna judge me, right, He's just interested in

505
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: He's just staring at like my eyes. I'm not looking

506
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: at it. I'm not a woman can talk about cheating

507
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: on her husband. I'm not gonna slut shamer because I

508
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: don't even operate on the same wavelength. There's no judgment.

509
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't know what I don't know

510
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: what Walmart is. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about anything.

511
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: Like I just I'm just looking at people's hearts. So

512
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: I think that's what people are connecting with. Not I

513
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: didn't really say anything you profound, except don't follow me.

514
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: You have the guru inside you. It's all I said

515
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: over and over again. This is an illusion.

516
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 4: I feel like Tony Robbins is like, I am not

517
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 4: your guru. But he's also like, but I am. You know.

518
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a really good tactic to get

519
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: people to follows, to sell him not to yeah right,

520
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: you know you have you ever gonna you know, like

521
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: the idea playing hard to get.

522
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: Was there even a moment where you were like, uh

523
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 3: where you were like, hey, this this power feels good.

524
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe there is something to this.

525
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: I think there is something to what I was saying.

526
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: I believe. In fact, I've gone through periods of a

527
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: time where I thought this movie is so bullshit, Like

528
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: I don't believe in you know, I think like I've

529
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: thought like what I was I saying in there, I

530
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: don't even understand, Like really what with the film was

531
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: talking about was just complete self reliance, like to a core, right,

532
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: like you don't And there's moments where I'm like, that

533
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: isn't true. You know, I've thought that and in my

534
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: life since making that, like you go through hard times

535
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh fuck, like maybe I need to

536
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 2: get some some prescriptions. I think that self, you know,

537
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: helping yourself is like using tool people as tools or

538
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: doctors or therapists or whatever. I think those are all

539
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: viable things. But but I think in a core way,

540
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: I still believe in everything that that Kumari was saying,

541
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But otherwise, as the power

542
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: of being like a fake Indian guru. The problem is,

543
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: like I had to like then keep this accent on,

544
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: you know, I had an accent. What am I gonna do,

545
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: like just be barefoot and live in Arizona and have

546
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of people who are following me? Like I

547
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: don't that'd be a problem. So I definitely believed what

548
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: I was saying because that's what I, as a person

549
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: was saying. But I never believe like I should be Kumara, right,

550
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: Like I like being Kumara, Like I love doing the

551
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: character every once in a while, but more to make

552
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: art and make something cool out of it, but less

553
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: as opposed to like have some power over people. It's

554
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: not a power for me. If you know you're fake,

555
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: it's a prison, you know. It's like I'm oh, I'm

556
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: never gonna be able to be myself. All this stuff

557
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: is about your own personal freedom if you're that's what

558
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: we're like everyone's looking for. So I was trapped in it.

559
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: I couldn't. Like my journey was like can I be

560
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: as insightful and intelligent, emotionally intelligent and caring and idealistic

561
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: as myself as I was as a fictional character? I

562
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: still haven't gotten there. I mean that's like that was

563
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: more of the thing I learned from it.

564
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 4: Was there any like life changes that you made through

565
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: making the film.

566
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean huge life changes. I think that on

567
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: a deep personal level, just the ability to know that

568
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: if you really listen to people that is so hugely

569
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: important to them that it's something that I remember so

570
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: deeply now and as are my life gets busier and

571
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: busier like everyone else, like interactions become more digital. There

572
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: was almost like a no deeper connection that I've had it,

573
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: you know, in a very instant way, as me being

574
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: Kumara staring into someone's eyes, Like I felt completely open

575
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: connected in such a quick way, in this cliche New

576
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: age way like oh my god, like I'm feeling you know,

577
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: I had that because I was in the zone like that,

578
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: and at the same time I could walk away, I

579
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: was shutting off my brain constantly talking to people, just

580
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: listening to them and realizing how important that could be

581
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: for people's Like what that's sometimes all we need. It's

582
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: the whole idea between like of just basic talk therapy

583
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: that people spend thousands of dollars on a year, is

584
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: just having someone listening to them. So that was interesting

585
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: to understand that I can interact with the world like that.

586
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: I didn't know that, you know, I'm I wasn't always

587
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: somebody who could, like who look people in the eye.

588
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: You know. I'm somebody who's rough around the edges. You know.

589
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: Most of my life have been like that guy's kind

590
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: of a dick, like, you know, like he didn't hold

591
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: the door open for me. He's on his own. You know.

592
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: I'm in my own world a lot of the time,

593
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: as a lot of people are. And so I realized

594
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: what the power of that connection is, you know, and

595
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: I started making working for vice afterwards. I don't think

596
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 2: I could have become like a journalist or almost immediately

597
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: pretty good at being on an HBO show having no

598
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: hosting experience, But I just like learned what it's like

599
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: just listen to people and empathize with them. It's a

600
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: huge skill and like a big thing that can change

601
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: your life if you let it. So that's something I

602
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: think the idea of taking a crazy idea to everyone

603
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: warned me against doing and told me not to do.

604
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: So many people that I went crazy. I had to

605
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: hide it from everyone that I was doing this thing.

606
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: And just decide I'm going to do this thing. I

607
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: don't you know, I'm going to do it because I

608
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: believe in it. I can't put into words, I can't

609
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: justify it, I can't tell you if it's going to sell.

610
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: That was a huge thing to just own that and

611
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: say let's do it good or bad. That's something that

612
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: was deeply liberating and cut me off from doing a

613
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: lot of other things in my career that I just

614
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 2: wasn't excited about. And then I think also just on

615
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 2: a you know, after the film came out, realizing that

616
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: while it wasn't this massive commercial success, the international sort

617
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 2: of cult following around it, the connection I had with

618
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: Brandon people all over the world who understood the concept

619
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: and felt like deeply moved by it. Like I've had

620
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 2: films that are seen by you know, my last film

621
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: was on Netflix. I've had shows seen by more people,

622
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: but nothing has even compared to the emotional connection that

623
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: people have had to Kumara, like and the message behind it.

624
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: It wasn't about the acting. It wasn't like, oh, you're

625
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 2: so funny. It was like there's something deep in there.

626
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: And so I'm like humbled by that because there's so

627
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: much stuff in that movie that I don't even really

628
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: fully understand either. It just felt like this was something

629
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: we were experimenting with that everybody kind of had been

630
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: thinking about. I just happen to be the first one

631
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 2: to do it or the person who did this version

632
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: of it.

633
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 4: You know, are you a spiritual person?

634
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: I think that that word has just been totally overus.

635
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: I don't know what that means anymore. What does it mean?

636
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 4: I guess do you believe in the like something bigger

637
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 4: than yourself? Or is there any rituals that you do

638
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 4: in your own life or anything like that? Is kind

639
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 4: of what I was wondering.

640
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 2: I meditate. My parents have brought me up in a

641
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: Hindu tradition. I've taken a lot of things that I

642
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: respect in that that our core in the way I

643
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: live my life. But it's all the interpretation that I've

644
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: made of it. I don't connect with organized religion, but

645
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: I do connect with what has insight into it. But

646
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I'm pretty practical. I see the

647
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: logical basis for everything that I'm doing. I think the

648
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: Venn diagram of what spiritual is it's expanded to me.

649
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: The word spiritual has been co opted as a term

650
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 2: of being. Like, I believe in things that are religious,

651
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: often in nature, but I don't want to be part

652
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: of a religious organization because I really don't like my parents,

653
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: and I don't like America, and I like all this

654
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: other stuff. But I do like scarves and certain rocks

655
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: and shit. So like, let me cherry pick what I

656
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: think I like and then I'll call that spiritual, so

657
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 2: I don't have to be connected to a deeper tradition.

658
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: And I understand where that comes from, but I'm not

659
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: yet in need of that, you know. So that's why

660
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: I'm like things that are considered spiritual. I don't really

661
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: know what falls into that into that category anymore because

662
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: there's a lot of new stuff that hopped in like

663
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: that I don't believe in.

664
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 3: I know, I struggle with that term as well, Like

665
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 3: I meditate also, and like in theory, there could be

666
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 3: something that connects us all, but I'm just like a

667
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: very evidence based person. And the people who do use that,

668
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 3: who self identify as spiritual, I typically don't.

669
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: Is spiritual if you use commer headspace, is that spiritual

670
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: or is that? Because me, that's just a biological like

671
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: your brain's fucked and like these things are trying to

672
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: help you. Doesn't feel like spiritual me. It's like it's

673
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 2: so rational why we need those things. It's not even

674
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: spiritual anymore to me? You know what I mean?

675
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: Right?

676
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: And I think anything that's related to my faith that

677
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 2: I grew up with. When it comes to things that

678
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: are in Sanskrit or come from a Hindu tradition, I

679
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, I see that stuff as it

680
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: can be used very negatively, you know, in India, I

681
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: don't connect with the Hindu national movement, so I don't know.

682
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

683
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to.

684
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: Where do you think the line is? I was talking

685
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 3: to friends about this last night. Between someone who thinks

686
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 3: that they really genuinely have found something that will benefit

687
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 3: other people and wants to share it, and someone who

688
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: is just a fraud. Like, how do you think a

689
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 3: person can differentiate between those two and know who to

690
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 3: trust and who not to trust.

691
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: Let's start, let's just de elevate spirituality and make it

692
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: like a subject that you didn't for some reason, we

693
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: didn't get to learn it in class, but it was

694
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: something that could have been a class in high school.

695
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: So you got math, science, geography, spirituality, and gym class

696
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 2: and shit. Right, if your math teacher tried to fuck you,

697
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 2: you'd be like, that guy's an asshole. So if a

698
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: math teacher was like, you need to come to talk

699
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 2: to me about every aspect of your life, you'd be like,

700
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: there's something wrong with this person. They're manipulative. So I

701
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: just think that the fact that we have decided that

702
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: spirituality is like this elevated thing in fact that we

703
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: put somebody who at the end of the day, the

704
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: person that you're elevating, the spiritual teacher is not somebody

705
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: who's more spiritual than you. It's somebody who's able to

706
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: articulate spiritual ideas in a concise way, the way that

707
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: Neil Degrassey Tyson is a TV scientist, but he is

708
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: not winning the Nobel Peace Prize. He is relating it

709
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: things in science to you in a very tangible way.

710
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: I think it's similar to a spiritual teacher. We don't

711
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: know what's inside of them. I don't think that you

712
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: didn't think my math teacher in high school was going

713
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: to win who was going to discover a new theorem

714
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: in math? You know, the people who are winning these

715
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: scientific awards, they're not the ones who explain it very well.

716
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: I think in a similar way, a spiritual teacher just

717
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: doesn't need to be elevated. They're just teaching you one

718
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: aspect of your life that for some reason the culture

719
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: you brought up in just didn't decide to teach you.

720
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: You know. Maybe that comes from I have very like

721
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: religious parents, not very religious in like a negative way,

722
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: but my dad now teaches meditation. I grew up learning

723
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, so it was like just another

724
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: subject I had to learn. It didn't elevate anything. I

725
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: met a lot of priests and gurus. They all seemed

726
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: like their life was a mess, you know, they needed

727
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 2: my help as much as I needed there. So I

728
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: just that's why I just don't see this thing is yeah,

729
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: you could generally help people, but like it's like the

730
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: after you go to your personal trainer, you take like

731
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: a pilates class, or you take an aerobics class, do

732
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: you need that person to come in and teach you

733
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: how to do other stuff in your life? Are you

734
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: gonna move to the aerobics ashram? You know? Maybe, but

735
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: like probably not. So I just think, like I don't

736
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: really get the I don't think that there's any reason

737
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: to elevate spiritual teachers beyond someone teaching you something else

738
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 2: that make makes sense.

739
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it gets tricky because spiritual teachers so

740
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 3: often are it's such an intimate emotional thing, and like

741
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: knowing when and where to put up a boundary with

742
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 3: someone when you're talking about such deeply personal things can

743
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: be very difficult.

744
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: Well what do you mean?

745
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: I mean if someone like, like when you're talking to

746
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: a tarot reader, for example, what you're talking about is

747
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: your life. You're talking about your emotions and your the

748
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 3: trajectory of your life.

749
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: Like it's not.

750
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 3: At least for the way I think a lot of

751
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 3: Americans define spirituality. It's not necessarily like just teaching meditation,

752
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's like it's so interwoven

753
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 3: with our feelings and the choices that we're going to

754
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: make and sort of trying to see the future and

755
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 3: know what is right. I personally don't think that anyone

756
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 3: knows what's right for my life. Like I think people can,

757
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: you know, lend me some outside perspective, because it can

758
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: be hard to see when you're when you're stuck in it.

759
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 3: But there are a lot of people I know who

760
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 3: are very reasonable, people who genuinely are moved when some

761
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 3: kind of spiritual you know, authority gives them some insight

762
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: into their lives or their emotional state. Probably a lot

763
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 3: of it is a place ebo. And to what extent

764
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 3: does it matter if it's beneficial? What do you think

765
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: to like, if somebody is a bullshitter but they are

766
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 3: genuinely benefiting someone's life or making them, you know, see

767
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 3: things for themselves, Like does it matter that they're not

768
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: really psychic or whatever it is?

769
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it matters because that makes them a liar. Right.

770
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: I don't want to surround myself or learn from liars,

771
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: so I would say stay away from somebody that. Yeah,

772
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: I think it does matter. I mean, I think that

773
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: there's important that somebody takes the form that they they're

774
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 2: actually who they say they are. But I do think that,

775
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: you know, in my film's experiment was really about like

776
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: showing that the placebo. One of the things that made

777
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: being Kumara harder in a way was that I knew

778
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: that I was like a fraud, like I you know,

779
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: I could be I was a guru, but I was like,

780
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: I'm fucking not this person, Like, I don't you know,

781
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: there's no backstory. I don't have that backstory as Kumara,

782
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 2: the place I came from wasn't real. It's like a

783
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 2: made up place cartoon. Kamara came from a cartoon, and

784
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: he does no actual real information about your life. So

785
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: if if part of your life stress is that you

786
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 2: find it hard to deal with monthly expenses and money

787
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 2: and keeping your your you know, any I think let's

788
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: take you know, a filmmaker or somebody who's worked in

789
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: the arts and has done freelance, Like a lot of

790
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: your stress in life comes from schedule ueling, money, keeping

791
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: your dreams alive. And then you know, these are like

792
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: things that people deal with in the arts. Right. If

793
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: I went to a guru and was trying to calm

794
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: my mind, yeah they can give me some perennial philosophy

795
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: on how to deal with my issues. But maybe it

796
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: would just be a little better if I talked to

797
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: somebody who kind of knew what I was going through.

798
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: So I just think that the spiritual person teacher is

799
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 2: teaching you like a tool that you need to take

800
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: and incorporate and see if you can make it a

801
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: habit and see if you can make it part of

802
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: your life. That's the tricky part, right you talk to

803
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 2: an Indian guru about like some marital problem, the fuck

804
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: they know celibate? A celibate guru is like like people

805
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: would ask Kumari about their relationships. I couldn't say anything.

806
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm not a real person, so I just think, like,

807
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: who are you getting your info from? Like, now I'm

808
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: going to tangent. I don't even know what you asked

809
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: me anymore.

810
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: Qu It's interesting you answered it.

811
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel really empowered about what I'm saying.

812
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: I went out with the guy who I met on

813
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 3: the internet, who I realized, like kind of once we

814
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 3: were out that he was a motivational speaker. It was

815
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 3: It's so funny to me because he has never been

816
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 3: in a relationship longer than like six months, and he

817
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 3: posts these videos online where I mean he gives advice

818
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 3: on everything. He's a motivational speaker.

819
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 4: He does.

820
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 3: He has these Instagram videos, but including a number of

821
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: videos about how to make your relationship work, you know,

822
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 3: like what makes a healthy relationship.

823
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, bro, like you have no idea.

824
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know My instinct is just like if

825
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: somebody feels like they have to go around telling people answers,

826
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 3: that to me is sort of inherently a red flag.

827
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: Okay, that's my tangent for the day. Everyone.

828
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: So now you have this new web series, The Guru

829
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: Inside You, which is delightful in it.

830
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: I actually it's funny, like it's on a it's on topic,

831
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: which is not something that many people have. It really

832
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: was like a me testing out the character again. Uh

833
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: huh so uh yeah, in a weird way. It's like

834
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: my little quarantine project that I shot in my place

835
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn.

836
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny and it's delightful. I watched

837
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: a couple episodes.

838
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 2: My intention is that I want to bring the character

839
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: back in a way that's it's just more like a

840
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: good vibe, like a guy who's a good vibe. And

841
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: it is funny because I like I like him, you know,

842
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: I like what he stands for. But I think Kumari

843
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 2: is more going to take on like different forms, and

844
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: that's just like one of many aspects of things that

845
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: might come out in the near future.

846
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: No, I love how you are transmitting a message, but

847
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 3: it's it's done in such a fun and light way

848
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 3: that I think it's really easy to hear.

849
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: Cool. I like it nice to hear.

850
00:46:54,520 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 3: So, what is the main message that you want to people?

851
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like we've probably said it already,

852
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 3: but like in a nutshell, what is what is the

853
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 3: big takeaway you want people to have, you.

854
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: Mean, through Kumara through Yeah, in a weird way, it's

855
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: like it is. I think the big philosophy behind Kumara

856
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: is not different than the sort of core philosophy a

857
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: lot of religions, you know, like when it comes to

858
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: zend Like there's a lot of Zen Buddhism in the

859
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: message of it. There's a lot of sort of deep

860
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: philosophical ideas from other religions, but the idea that like

861
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: we shouldn't deify other people, we shouldn't put believe that

862
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: other people have the answers, that we have the answers

863
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: inside ourselves, and that we have the ability to make

864
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 2: ourselves happy, but we just need to sort of find

865
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: that voice. I think there's a lot of truth to

866
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: that this. I think that's really what the message of

867
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: Kumara is. And and I think that our addiction to

868
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 2: following people, you know, today is the election is still

869
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: being counted right now. We're an election of a person

870
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: who is kind of like a false spiritual leader, a

871
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: cult leader like like Trump is somebody who draws on

872
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 2: people's weakness and pins people against each other and with

873
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: the hope that dangling the carot of like, oh, if

874
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: you vote for me, I'm going to fix all of

875
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: these problems in your life because I've made you afraid.

876
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: Those same tactics are what sort of fake spiritual leaders use.

877
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: Kumari is basically just against that whole thing, like against everything,

878
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: and I would even say against even the sort of

879
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: culture of celebrity in America, the idea of elevating people

880
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: or being interested in what other people are doing as

881
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: opposed to yourself. So those are I think that everything

882
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: in a modern context. That's what Kumari probably stand against,

883
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: is like being attracted to false leaders.

884
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have one more question, because I wholeheartedly connect

885
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: with that message that Kamara has. But I also wonder,

886
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 3: and we touched on this a little bit earlier.

887
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 4: We are.

888
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 3: In America there is such a culture of each every

889
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 3: man for himself. It's so individualistic, and people do feel

890
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 3: very alone. I think especially right now? And what do

891
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 3: you think is an alternative thing that a person can

892
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 3: do when looking inward is not doing it? If Kamara

893
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 3: is against putting your faith in a spiritual leader, what

894
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: is Kamara for as an alternative when someone feels very alone.

895
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: I think that I think that despair can be broken

896
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 2: down into parts. I think we can go and find

897
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: people that can help us with these different parts of

898
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: what is wrong with our life. I think that's really important, right.

899
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: I think it's great to go out and find people

900
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: to help you with different aspects of your lif But

901
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: the idea of that I'm giving you all the answers

902
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: is going to be a problem. There's somebody who's really

903
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 2: good at teaching it exercise. There's another person who gives

904
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: you good advice about your relationships. That's I don't think

905
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 2: these things are going to change. That's like been around

906
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: since the beginning of humans, right, Like, let me go

907
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: talk to this person about that that thing, let me

908
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 2: consult this person about another aspect of my life. If

909
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: you're thinking like that, you're probably not going to fall

910
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 2: into like the trap of one person who has all

911
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: the answers for you.

912
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 3: Right, So, like, maybe you do need people, but you

913
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 3: need someone who you can talk to about your problems

914
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 3: and somebody who can you know, be your cheerleader when

915
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 3: you're feeling down, and maybe a therapist for this at

916
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: like a community, yeah, versus one single individual who has

917
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: access to some higher power.

918
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: I just think that each person needs a little bit

919
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: of a support system, right, And it's not like fucked

920
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: up to think, oh that person, I use that person

921
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 2: my life because they make me feel better in this way.

922
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 2: Like I think that's a normal, like how friendships work.

923
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 2: I think if you're surrounded, if you surround yourself with

924
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: maybe it's a community or just like who are the

925
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 2: right people that I should be around that make my

926
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 2: life better? If you if you're thinking like that, even

927
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: like a tiny bit strategically, you're probably better off.

928
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 4: Everybody should watch Kamara. It's awesome.

929
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 3: You can find it online Amazon, right, Yeah, you.

930
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: Can watch it on Amazon. This series it's on this

931
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 2: platform called Topic. Or you can email me and I'll

932
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: send you a clip, you know, version on Vimeo.

933
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 4: Where can they find you on social media?

934
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: My Instagram is vk Gandhi.

935
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for talking to us.

936
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice to meet both of you.

937
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 3: Thanks Okay, So here's the big question. I actually am

938
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 3: very curious this time, Megan, would you follow Kumara?

939
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 4: Of course I would. Of course. I am a just

940
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 4: juiced up, prime and ready willing participant of a Kumara.

941
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 4: So it's a it's a warning story for sure. I

942
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 4: do think him in particular would would get me, But

943
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 4: there are many gurus that I'm not into that are

944
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 4: pretty similar, So I feel kind of confident that I

945
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 4: can navigate my way.

946
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: What is it about Kumari that you think would get you.

947
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 4: Well, he's really handsome.

948
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: He is kind of handsome. Uh huh uh.

949
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 4: He's very charismatic, and you know, there's just a simple

950
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 4: truth that if you'd say it in a calm way,

951
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 4: I get really on board. And he kept doing that.

952
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 4: You know, nothing too flashy, nothing too uh to out there.

953
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 4: It's just a pretty handsome man, uh saying some some

954
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 4: true shit. Uh but in a weird way.

955
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Yogo Guru, no of it all does not

956
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: get me, but I definitely see the appeal. As I'm

957
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 3: watching the documentary, I'm watching them doing the like chanting exercises,

958
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 3: and it all feels very connected. Honestly, I think I

959
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 3: said this in the India Auxenberg episode too. But I

960
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 3: think a big thing that would get me is the

961
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 3: eye contact. Yeah, Like, no matter what the contacts, I

962
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: just feel like any kind of that level of intimacy

963
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 3: is something you just don't get to experience that often.

964
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 4: Well you feel all the time too, with like people

965
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 4: who get off the bus from Nebraska or in my case,

966
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 4: Kansas and then you go and take your first acting

967
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 4: class and you like have to look into somebody's eyes

968
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 4: for ten minutes and you know, say stuff back and forth,

969
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 4: and you have this experience that's so out of the

970
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 4: norm and so intense. And I definitely had that experience

971
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 4: when I moved to La with the whole eye contact

972
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 4: and you know, it just it's so powerful.

973
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

974
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 3: Well, luckily, luckily he's been open about the fact that

975
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 3: he's a fraud.

976
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm still following him now as my guru.

977
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: But all Hail Komara.

978
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you can find me Lola on Instagram at

979
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 3: Ula Lola.

980
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: Oh oh h l A l O l A and.

981
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 4: You can find me at Vibe Higher Bitch. Well, thank

982
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 4: you for listening, everybody. We hope you have a great week.

983
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 4: Remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flats,

984
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 4: and never ever trust me