Speaker 1: One quick note before we begin. Noble Blood is now
Speaker 1: on Patreon, so if you are interested in supporting the
Speaker 1: show and getting a behind the scenes look at my
Speaker 1: process and getting access to Q and as bibliographies for
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Speaker 1: slash Noble Blood Tales. All right, let's dive in. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: There are two German people that I need to introduce
Speaker 1: you to before this story can really begin. The first
Speaker 1: is Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia. That's his legal last name,
Speaker 1: Prince von Prussen. Germany is no longer a monarchy today,
Speaker 1: but if it were, Georg Friedrich would be its leader.
Speaker 1: The forty four year old head of the House of
Speaker 1: Hohenzo Learn is the great great grandson of Kaiser Wilhelm
Speaker 1: the Second, the last German Emperor and King of Prussia,
Speaker 1: who abdicated both of those titles in nineteen eighteen following
Speaker 1: Germany's defeat in World War One. Up until then, the
Speaker 1: hohens O Learned family had ruled in modern day Prussia
Speaker 1: for over three hundred years. Looking at Georg Friedrich, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily think that he's royal. He looks like any
Speaker 1: other attractive, wealthy person in his forties. He could be
Speaker 1: a stockbroker or a member of the local school board. Still,
Speaker 1: he is a direct descendant of Queen Victoria, which makes
Speaker 1: him technically two hundred second in line for the British throne,
Speaker 1: although I've seen that number as low as one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy Yet. The second German Man you need to
Speaker 1: know for this story is the German equivalent of John
Speaker 1: Stewart back when he was hosted The Daily Show, a
Speaker 1: man named Jan Boorman. Jan is the host of a
Speaker 1: late night television show called Neo Magazine Royal. Like any
Speaker 1: political satire, the show is no stranger to controversy. Jan
Speaker 1: has launched a handful of national scandals in the press
Speaker 1: and dealt with about as many lawsuits. Last year in
Speaker 1: Jan air to segment that brought a little known legal
Speaker 1: battle to national attention. For years, Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia,
Speaker 1: had secretly been embroiled in negotiations with the German government
Speaker 1: in an effort to reclaim thousands of pieces of art
Speaker 1: and other priceless historical artifacts and to regain his family's
Speaker 1: claim to a number of castles and other properties, a
Speaker 1: negotiation worth hundreds of millions of euros. When the Soviets
Speaker 1: claimed East Germany after World War two, and half the
Speaker 1: country fell under communism, much of the Holland or Land
Speaker 1: family property fell on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain.
Speaker 1: But then the Berlin Wall came down and in German
Speaker 1: parliament passed a law which allowed Germans the right to
Speaker 1: reclaim property that had been seized in the Soviet occupation.
Speaker 1: But that law had one major caveat. You had the
Speaker 1: right to family property, but that right was automatically forfeited
Speaker 1: if your ancestors significantly contributed to the rise of the
Speaker 1: Nazi Party. This is where things get slightly sticky for
Speaker 1: Georg Friedrich, the Kaiser abdicated in eighteen after Germany's defeat
Speaker 1: in World War One, and he spent the rest of
Speaker 1: his life in exile in the Netherlands to avoid being
Speaker 1: extradited by the Allies. But his son, former Crown Prince
Speaker 1: will Home, did return to Germany, and there are a
Speaker 1: number of more than uncomfortable photos of the former Crown
Speaker 1: Prince wearing a Nazi uniform, saluting, smiling and laughing next
Speaker 1: to Adolf Hitler like they're the best friends in the world.
Speaker 1: Georg Friedrich's negotiations with the German government over the art
Speaker 1: and the property had almost been entirely private until beyond
Speaker 1: Borman segment, in which the comedian dubbed Georg Friedrich in
Speaker 1: German hashtag print stupid. Young Gorman said that for bringing
Speaker 1: the case at all, for trying to reclaim any of
Speaker 1: the property that was currently being displayed to the public
Speaker 1: as museums, meant that Georg Friedrick had and I quote,
Speaker 1: I are ashall balls of steel for Georg Friedrich. I
Speaker 1: imagine it's not just a matter of money, though it
Speaker 1: does seem like quite a bit of money, but of family,
Speaker 1: honor and shame. Whatever pride he might take in being
Speaker 1: able to trace his lineage back past Queen Victoria is
Speaker 1: permanently overshadowed by those photos of his great grandfather proudly
Speaker 1: wearing a swatsticka But those photos, embarrassing as they are,
Speaker 1: can't tell a full story, and so millions of euros
Speaker 1: are at stake in a legal battle in which historians
Speaker 1: have been enlisted on both sides to answer a seemingly
Speaker 1: simple question, did Crown Prince Wilholm significantly help the Nazis?
Speaker 1: I'm Dana Schwartz and this is noble blood. Crown Prince
Speaker 1: Wilhelm was the son of the last Kaiser. He was
Speaker 1: actually the son of a man with two titles, Kaiser
Speaker 1: of Germany and King of Prussia. Until eighteen seventy one,
Speaker 1: Prussia was one of a number of sovereign states within
Speaker 1: the German Confederation. In eighteen seventy one, the states became
Speaker 1: the German Empire and the Hohenzollern family became its emperors.
Speaker 1: Kaiser Wilhelm the second went to war against two of
Speaker 1: his first cousins, the King and Czar of England and
Speaker 1: Russia respectively, in World War One, and his oldest son,
Speaker 1: Crown Prince Wilholm, was obviously expected to show his bravery
Speaker 1: and composure on the battlefield in a leadership position. The
Speaker 1: Crown Prince was in his thirties when World War One began,
Speaker 1: and he patriotic as any German, was thrilled at the
Speaker 1: notion of expansion and the sharing of Teutonic glory all
Speaker 1: over Europe. As a prominent noble He was, of course
Speaker 1: given command of an entire field army, regardless of the
Speaker 1: fact that he was completely unqualified and had done nothing
Speaker 1: with his twenties more notable than having an affair with
Speaker 1: the opera singer Geraldine Farrar. Crown Prince Wilhelm had the
Speaker 1: misfortune of being born as a prince while the idea
Speaker 1: of monarchy in Europe was facing a major reckoning. Famously,
Speaker 1: the devastation of World War One can be in part
Speaker 1: attributed to nineteenth century tactics and twentieth century technology. A
Speaker 1: similar mismatch was at play with Europe's royal families at
Speaker 1: the time. Crown Prince will Holm had the lineage and
Speaker 1: ego of the absolute monarchs in a country no longer
Speaker 1: willing to give him any real power, and so though
Speaker 1: Crown Prince will Holm was technically the commander of the
Speaker 1: military's fifth Army, he had a chief of staff with
Speaker 1: actual experience who would be actually, you know, doing the work.
Speaker 1: It was understood and expected that Crown Prince Wilhelm would
Speaker 1: defer to his chief of staff on all important military decisions.
Speaker 1: But the Crown Prince still about to wear the sash
Speaker 1: and badges of a commander. The most noteworthy thing that
Speaker 1: Crown Print Wilhelm was actually involved in in the war,
Speaker 1: for my money, is having an affair with the performer
Speaker 1: known as Mata Harri, who would be offered a million
Speaker 1: francs by the French military for German secrets, attempt to
Speaker 1: double cross them with the Germans, and then face execution
Speaker 1: by a French firing squad when the Germans left her
Speaker 1: out to dry. Now, this would be a much longer
Speaker 1: and a much different podcast if I were to go
Speaker 1: into all of the details about the military maneuvers of
Speaker 1: the First World War. Those details are fascinating, and I
Speaker 1: encourage you to read more about them, but for now,
Speaker 1: I think it suffices to say that at the end
Speaker 1: of the war, Germany was in free fall. A generation
Speaker 1: of young men had been wiped out in the senseless
Speaker 1: bloodshed of trench warfare. Three million Germans percent of Germany's
Speaker 1: men were killed. While the German army stood facing the
Speaker 1: precipice of true and genuine defeat, It's demoralized soldiers began
Speaker 1: to splinter in revolt against the aristocrats who had put
Speaker 1: them in that position to begin with. First, there was
Speaker 1: a mutiny at sea by naval officers then coming in
Speaker 1: from the coasts. The masses demanded change. A socialist uprising
Speaker 1: was bubbling within Germany. The nation was going to become
Speaker 1: a republic at any cost. On November nine, with a
Speaker 1: crowd gathering in Berlin, the Kaiser and his closest advisers
Speaker 1: realized that they had no choice. The Kaiser resigned his
Speaker 1: royal title, as did his son, the Crown Prince. Privately,
Speaker 1: the former Kaiser believed that even though he had technically
Speaker 1: abdicated his title as Kaiser, he could still hold some
Speaker 1: power as the King of Prussia. It's the type of
Speaker 1: naivety that almost looks adorable in retrospect, like someone on
Speaker 1: the Titanic asking to make sure their tea is still
Speaker 1: out by the time they get back. Both the former
Speaker 1: Kaiser and former Crown Prince had to flee Germany in
Speaker 1: order to protect themselves from their own people's revolt. They
Speaker 1: went through Belgium and rode a train across the border
Speaker 1: to the Netherlands, a country that was neutral under Queen Wilhelmina.
Speaker 1: The Allied powers tried in Vain to extradite the former
Speaker 1: Kaiser in order to charge him for war crimes, but
Speaker 1: Queen Wilhelmina was neutral and wanted to make a clear
Speaker 1: point to the rest of Europe adds to her nation's autonomy,
Speaker 1: and so the Kaiser would go on to buy a
Speaker 1: big house, endured, and live in exile in the Netherlands
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life, stewing about his wrongful
Speaker 1: forced eviction and blaming the Jews for sabotage in Germany
Speaker 1: during World War One. From within. One more interesting thing
Speaker 1: happened to the former Kaiser, not entirely relevant to the story,
Speaker 1: but I think worth mentioning just because it seems surreal
Speaker 1: to me that Ben Affleck hasn't made it into a
Speaker 1: movie yet. In January nineteen nineteen, a former Tennessee senator
Speaker 1: named Luke Lee, who had just been serving as a
Speaker 1: colonel in France, attempted to kidnap the former Kaiser and
Speaker 1: bring him to justice. Like most American soldiers, Lee was
Speaker 1: frustrated that Kaiser Bill as he called him, was just
Speaker 1: going to get away with it, to have caused so
Speaker 1: much death and then just go on to live a
Speaker 1: quiet life in a pastoral Dutch village somewhere. It seemed unimaginable.
Speaker 1: After the war, Lee happened to stumble into a party
Speaker 1: where he met the Duke of Connacht, the uncle of
Speaker 1: both King George five and the Kaiser. With the blase
Speaker 1: attitude of the blue blooded, the Duke mentioned off handedly
Speaker 1: that no one was going to make a real fuss
Speaker 1: about the Kaiser now that he was an exile. Of course,
Speaker 1: they were all embarrassed by the Kaiser. The British royal
Speaker 1: family had changed their last name in v from sax
Speaker 1: Coburg Gotha to the more neutral sounding Windsor in order
Speaker 1: to avoid the as pesky German associations. But nobility was nobility.
Speaker 1: The noble, like the wealthy, like to protect their own
Speaker 1: or at least to try to prevent them from ever
Speaker 1: facing any actual consequences. But Luke Lee was a good
Speaker 1: Southern boy who instinctively bristled against the insular camaraderie of
Speaker 1: the elite, and so he took matters into his own hands.
Speaker 1: With absolutely no permission from any authority whatsoever. Lee gathered
Speaker 1: a handful of other officers from his unit, and the
Speaker 1: group of them used fake civilian passports to sneak into
Speaker 1: Holland in a seven passenger Winston Car Lee didn't tell
Speaker 1: the other men what their mission was going to be
Speaker 1: until they were already across the border. We're here to
Speaker 1: kidnap Kaiser Bill and bring him to Paris, where they're
Speaker 1: having peace talks. They can bring him to justice, he said.
Speaker 1: Anyone who doesn't want to come along doesn't have to
Speaker 1: leave now. None of the men left. Instead, the seven
Speaker 1: American soldiers drove through the January night to the seventeenth
Speaker 1: century castle where the Kaiser was living with his wife.
Speaker 1: The gate was locked, but Lee leapt from the car
Speaker 1: and rattled at the railing until a guard approached. I
Speaker 1: demand to see the man in charge here, Lee shouted
Speaker 1: in terrible German. The guard, no doubt deeply uncomfortable by
Speaker 1: the rowdy strangers, nevertheless, brought them inside and escorted them
Speaker 1: to the castle's library. After fifteen minutes, a man entered.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the Kaiser. It was a Dutch nobleman named
Speaker 1: Count Bentinck, wearing a full coat and tails, state or business.
Speaker 1: The Count said the Americans were silent. Benton left the
Speaker 1: library and slammed the doors behind him. From the other
Speaker 1: side of the library doors, the Americans listened as the
Speaker 1: Count and the Kaiser talked quickly back and forth. Suddenly
Speaker 1: the count reappeared. If you don't have official business with
Speaker 1: the Kaiser, I'm afraid you must leave now. He said.
Speaker 1: We're nephews of the German count. One of the Americans
Speaker 1: ad libbed. Lee shook his head. Their mission was over
Speaker 1: and their next move was written on his face aboard.
Speaker 1: Before anyone could say another word, Lee and the Americans
Speaker 1: ran from the castle and jumped back into their car.
Speaker 1: They drove away as they saw Dutch troops coming up
Speaker 1: the road. Finally, when it seemed like the coast was clear,
Speaker 1: one of the men pulled a silver ashtray out from
Speaker 1: his pocket. At least we got a souvenir, he said.
Speaker 1: The ash tray was embossed with the German coat of
Speaker 1: arms and the initial W I Wilhelm Imperator. The former
Speaker 1: Kaiser would file a formal complaint about the illegal Americans
Speaker 1: and their burglary of a priceless stolen astray, but in
Speaker 1: the end, Colonel Lee and his cohorts would receive what
Speaker 1: amounted to nothing more than a slap on the wrists.
Speaker 1: Was the cost of an astray really worth the cost
Speaker 1: in damages? The Kaiser had caused to Europe. Perhaps the
Speaker 1: former Kaiser realized that it wasn't worth asking for anything
Speaker 1: from the international community. Any attention you received at that
Speaker 1: point would probably lead to trouble for him. He had
Speaker 1: gotten away with it with everything he did. He had
Speaker 1: his life and his freedom, and now he just needed
Speaker 1: to keep his mouth shut. Sometimes you need to quit
Speaker 1: while you're ahead. But while the former Kaiser was more
Speaker 1: or less comfortable in xt style, the former Crown Prince
Speaker 1: was not. In N three, the former Crown Prince, who
Speaker 1: from now on will just call Wilhelm, made a deal
Speaker 1: with the Chancellor that he would be allowed to return
Speaker 1: to Germany as long as he didn't get involved in politics.
Speaker 1: It didn't take him too long to break that promise.
Speaker 1: From here we have to do a little bit of
Speaker 1: speculation to draw conclusions about motivations and ideologies about which
Speaker 1: historians on both sides of the issue argue. How did
Speaker 1: Wilhelm feel about Adolf Hitler, the rising star of German
Speaker 1: politics in the twenties. Well, we know that Wilhelm shared
Speaker 1: a hatred of Jews and communists. He would write a
Speaker 1: column published in a New York newspaper stating that Hitler
Speaker 1: was a quote clear sighted and energetic leader, and commenting
Speaker 1: that the Jews and Communists were the ones to blame
Speaker 1: for Germany's lowered status on the world stage. Wilhelm wrote
Speaker 1: glowing letters to Hitler and he joined Der Staalholm, a
Speaker 1: World War One veterans group that then went on to
Speaker 1: become the far right Harsburg Front. And then, when Hitler
Speaker 1: and his party were celebrating the reopening of the new
Speaker 1: Reichstock after the Reichstag fire, Crown Prince Wilhelm was the
Speaker 1: guest of honor. He marched in the day of Potsdam
Speaker 1: Parade with three of his four surviving brothers with a
Speaker 1: swastika on his arm. For Hitler, the location and date
Speaker 1: of the celebration were of massive symbolic importance. Potsdam in
Speaker 1: Prussia was the seat of power for Frederick the Great
Speaker 1: and the center of the Second Reich under Otto von Bismarck.
Speaker 1: The date Hitler chose, March twenty one, was the anniversary
Speaker 1: of the opening of the First Reichstock. Everything that Hitler
Speaker 1: did was meant to convey the continuity and greatness of
Speaker 1: Germany under his party, a return to its former glory
Speaker 1: and the Crown Prince was essential in that vision. Not
Speaker 1: only did Wilhelm's acceptance of Hitler ingratiate the politician among
Speaker 1: the aristocratic elites, but his very presence at the parade
Speaker 1: afforded it a legitimacy. Here was the heir of the
Speaker 1: Hohenzolern family, the people who had ruled Germany for hundreds
Speaker 1: of years, throwing his weight behind Adolf Hitler. Here's the
Speaker 1: problematic part for Georg Friedrich, the head of the Hohenzolelern
Speaker 1: family today, at least in terms of public image, there
Speaker 1: is no shortage of photographs of Crown Prince Wilhelm wearing
Speaker 1: the stormtrooper Nazi uniform in boots, or standing across from
Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler looking genial like he seeing an old friend.
Speaker 1: They are the type of damning photos of an ancestor that,
Speaker 1: to me would make someone want to change their last
Speaker 1: name altogether. But was being on Hitler's side publicly enough
Speaker 1: to constitute a quote significant contribution to the Nazi Party.
Speaker 1: Some argue that Wilhelm was just cozying up to Hitler
Speaker 1: because he secretly believed that the Nazi Party might restore
Speaker 1: the monarchy. In fact, once it became obvious that Hitler
Speaker 1: had zero intention of sharing power with anyone. Will Holm
Speaker 1: cold towards him, But does it make a difference why
Speaker 1: someone supported Hitler? I only supported Nazis for a selfish reason, is,
Speaker 1: to my ears, not an incredibly compelling line of defense.
Speaker 1: Christopher Clark, a professor at Cambridge who was hired by
Speaker 1: the Hollandzo Learned, initially argued in favor of restoring the
Speaker 1: holandz Learned prop pretty. He wrote that even though it
Speaker 1: was undeniable that the Crown Prince did support Hitler, he
Speaker 1: wasn't politically adept or intelligent enough for that support to
Speaker 1: be politically meaningful. It's as I like to think of it,
Speaker 1: the don junior defense. Professor. Clark says that he has
Speaker 1: since changed his mind on the issue since coming across
Speaker 1: new evidence. But the Hollins O Learns have another historian,
Speaker 1: will from Peter at the University of Stuttgart, who argues
Speaker 1: that privately, Crown Prince Wilhelm actually rejected the Nazi system.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, the historians that I read,
Speaker 1: at least the translations of the internal reports that Comedian
Speaker 1: Jan Bowerman leaked, paint a very clear picture. As the
Speaker 1: German historian Peter Brant wrote, it cannot be denied that
Speaker 1: will Holm, especially in the dissolution phase of the Weimar
Speaker 1: Republic and in the consolidation phase of the Third Right,
Speaker 1: steadily and significantly, contributed to the transfer of power to
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party and to its consolidation. This happened in
Speaker 1: full awareness and in agreement with the path to dictatorship,
Speaker 1: combined with the hope of a more prominent place in
Speaker 1: the new circumstances. Once Hitler was fully in power, Wilhelm
Speaker 1: almost fully withdrew from public life. He lived at his
Speaker 1: palace in Potsdam, Secilianhoff, separated from his wife, until the
Speaker 1: end of the war, when it was seized by the
Speaker 1: Red Army. That palace was actually used to host the
Speaker 1: Potsdam Conference, which you might remember from a famous photo
Speaker 1: they showed us in a p u S History class
Speaker 1: of Winston Churchill, Harriet Strumman, and Joseph Stalin all sitting
Speaker 1: side by side. After World War Two, Wilhelm was captured
Speaker 1: by French Moroccan troops and placed under house arrest under
Speaker 1: the pretense of being a World War One criminal. He
Speaker 1: died of a heart attack in nineteen fifty one at
Speaker 1: age sixty nine, and he was buried at Hohenzollern Castle,
Speaker 1: where his great grandson Georg Friedrich now lives for part
Speaker 1: of the year. The legal demands that Gaeorg Friederick is
Speaker 1: making today are for the typical random assortment of landed
Speaker 1: gentry property, paintings by German masters, historically important letters, the
Speaker 1: chair where Frederick the Great died, you know, classic things.
Speaker 1: But he also requested the right for him and his
Speaker 1: family to live for free at the palace sicilian Hof,
Speaker 1: which Germany recently restored with taxpayer money to turn into
Speaker 1: a museum. Georg Friederich said that he hoped he and
Speaker 1: the government would reach a quote amicable settlement, but presumably
Speaker 1: to speed that alone in he and his family began
Speaker 1: withdrawing pieces of art that they did own outright but
Speaker 1: had been lending to public museums. Other nobles whose property
Speaker 1: had been forfeited under communism have made quiet settlement already.
Speaker 1: The Prince von seckend Weimar Eisenach was generous enough to
Speaker 1: accept eighteen point two million dollars for his assorted art
Speaker 1: pieces and castle inventory. There's so much on the line
Speaker 1: now between the German government and the Hohenzolen family that
Speaker 1: neither side wants to risk actually going to court and
Speaker 1: accepting the consequences of an all or nothing outcome. In August,
Speaker 1: both sides agreed to a year long delay in court
Speaker 1: proceedings in order to try to negotiate a mutually acceptable compromise.
Speaker 1: The way Gayeric Friedrich describes it, he is simply upholding
Speaker 1: his family legacy. He's fighting not out of financial greed,
Speaker 1: but out of familial obligation to take the things that
Speaker 1: belong to the holland to Learn. At its inception, the
Speaker 1: idea of feudal nobility and monarchy was almost meant to
Speaker 1: be mutually beneficial, that a king or nobleman would protect
Speaker 1: his serfs in return for their loyalty. One has to wonder,
Speaker 1: at what point does someone no longer earn the honor
Speaker 1: or dignity that society at large still ascribes to a title.
Speaker 1: At what point do they no longer remain entitled to
Speaker 1: the extreme wealth that went along with it. It's not
Speaker 1: as though gay Org Friederich, who owned three fourths of
Speaker 1: the Home to Learn, castle, to Wineries, and an island
Speaker 1: outright among his many other properties, is hard up for cash,
Speaker 1: drawing attention to yourself and your great grandfather in a
Speaker 1: Nazi uniform to ask for millions of euros in objects
Speaker 1: and properties that are currently being given to the public takes,
Speaker 1: as Jan Bowerman would say, here a stale. Being a
Speaker 1: monarch at the best of times puts a target on
Speaker 1: your back. Sometimes you need to quit while you're ahead.
Speaker 1: In German culture, the date November nine is massively significant.
Speaker 1: It's called shiksaws Dog or the day of fate. November
Speaker 1: nine was the day that Kaiser Wilhelms Chancellor announced the
Speaker 1: Kaiser's abdication, and then five years later, it's the day
Speaker 1: that his son, the former Crown Prince, chose to return
Speaker 1: to Germany. It's the day of Hitler's failed beer hall
Speaker 1: putch and the horrific Crystal knach In when Jewish shops
Speaker 1: and synagogues were destroyed and hundreds of Jewish were murdered.
Speaker 1: And then in nine it was the day the Berlin
Speaker 1: Wall fell, ending the German separation. All of the seeds
Speaker 1: of the story that led to the Kaiser's great great
Speaker 1: grandson demanding compensation from the German government for the castles
Speaker 1: that the Communists took We're all planted in a steady
Speaker 1: row on different November nine. I'm only sorry that this
Speaker 1: podcast is just a little early. Noble Blood is a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from
Speaker 1: Aaron Manky. The show was written and hosted by Danis
Speaker 1: Schwartz and produced by Aaron Manky, Matt Frederick, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Noble Blood is on social media at
Speaker 1: Noble Blood Tales, and you can learn more about the
Speaker 1: show over at Noble blood Tales dot com. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.