1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong, Joe Getty. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: Armstrong and Jetty, and he Armstrong and Yetty. 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 3: He gotta be kind of old to know who Cat 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: Stevens is. He is like a soft rock guy from 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: back in the seventies and changed his name to something 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 3: or other as a mother sef Islam. 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 2: He just he just announced a book tour. 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 3: The only reason I bring it up is I am 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 3: reading the Salmon Rushdie memoir, in which he mentions that 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 3: Cat Stevens was among those calling for Salmon Rushdie's death 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 3: after he put out the satantic verses book Peace Train. 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Indeed, one more reason not to listen to guitar players 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: talking about politics or. 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: The sometimes depending on who it is, the religion of peace. Uh, 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: that was not my point. 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: What was my point? Oh? 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 3: So the house meaning all night long? The rules committee 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 3: started at one am, and now there's more wrangling going 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: on over the big beautiful bill, and stuff keeps coming 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: in and out of it. We could have the very 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 3: latest on that this hour. There's been some interesting wranglings. 23 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 3: I can tell you what the net result will be, though, 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 3: is we're going to go further and further into debt. 25 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: I just came across this quote that I really like. 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: The arc of democracy is long, but it bends toward insolvency. 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: That seems to beautiful. That is beautiful. 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: I was trying to find the email from one of 29 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: our beloved listeners who called the big beautiful Bill. I 30 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: can't remember what he called him, but it's a big 31 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: beautiful horror and disappointment and betrayal of ourselves and our kids. 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: Anyway, don't get me started too late. 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: I thought this was very, very interesting in a moment 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: or two, a discussion, a digest of you will, if 35 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: you will, of various thoughts about why kids cheat using AI. 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: They're lazy, ah, and you brought them up poorly. 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: As I said last week, dipping my toe into AI 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 3: for the first time, I thought, how would you not? 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 3: It is so easy, It would be so easy to 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 3: get a boost. I mean, not just flat out write 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: the paper for me, but like some easy, serious help. 42 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: That would be a hell of a shortcut. 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and I will plan in advance on being 44 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: unsatisfied with this segment when it ends, because this ought 45 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: to be this discussion. Why are kids cheating with it? 46 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: How can we stop them from cheating with it? And indeed, 47 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: should we even try to stop them from cheating with it? 48 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: Could be like a series of four three hour podcasts, 49 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: and even then it would probably leave people scratching their heads. Anyway, 50 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: Having said that, I thought this was crazy. I saw 51 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: this video today. This is an illustration of one of 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: Google's AI products, and I was reading about how they 53 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: actually have some pretty interesting stuff coming. They feel like 54 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: they're behind the chat GPT and that sort of thing. 55 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: Evil company. You got to keep that in mind. Oh yeah, 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: terribly evil. 57 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: But they are a little behind the mass market for 58 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: AI tools for the consumer, but they're way behind among 59 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: the tools young people choose. 60 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: Well, have they rolled out their best I remember when 61 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: I was talking about this like two years ago, because 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: I knew some people in that world that Google was 63 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: pouring more money in it to than anybody, but holding 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: their fire to like really release the takeover the world. 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: You know, the way Google dominated search engines. They wanted 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 3: to land with such a everybody was using. It becomes 67 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: the Xerox or Kleenex of AI. 68 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: But did they release theirs and fail or Uh No, 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: it's just all developing so fast. I think that, you know, 70 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: check back in a week, that'll be a new headline. 71 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: And I don't I'm not qualified to answer that question 72 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: because all of these services and you know, apps and all, 73 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: they have clever sounding names like Gemini and Perplexity and 74 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: the rest of it, and I have trouble remembering who's this. 75 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: Who's I'm not an expert by anybody, but it's the 76 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: Google guy. 77 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: Though that said AI was going to be as big 78 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 3: to mankind as fire right. 79 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: So for instance, this is from Google Meat, which we 80 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: use now and again they have launched their real time translator. 81 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: Et pardon me, m et, yes, yes, meeting. We use 82 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: the platform ourselves as opposed to Google Meat. I don't 83 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: want to eat anything Google makes anyway. So it's a 84 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 1: real time speech translator. What you're going to hear is 85 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: a gentleman asking a question and the gal starts to 86 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: answer him, but he, you know, presumably is more comfortable 87 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: with Spanish or whatever, and he clicks on his screen 88 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: that he wants to hear her in Spanish instead. Uh, 89 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: and and then we'll we'll interpret in a moment, Go 90 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: ahead and roll at. 91 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: Michael, where would you like to go? On your next vacation. Oh, 92 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: where would I like to go on my next vacation? 93 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you about an upcoming just pain 94 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 4: to Majorca, Rapos, Sacramento, Semana. 95 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So not only is it simultaneously with just like 96 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: a half second delay, simultaneously translating what she's saying, it's 97 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: doing it in her voice. 98 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: It's emulating her voice. Right, I didn't catch that, but yes, obviously, yeah, yeah, 99 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 2: so I mean a tool. 100 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: I mean because those of us who've traveled a bit 101 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: and used Google Translate, like a year and a half ago. 102 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: So when we were in like Bavaria, I would look 103 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: at a sign on a truck and put it in 104 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: the camera and say, honey, that's a sausage truck, and 105 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: trying to read signs, you know, to figure out where 106 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: we were going, and it was super cool. And occasionally 107 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: you'd have a conversation with you know, say a German 108 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: speaker because I tried like hell to learn language. It's 109 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: too hard and I'm too dumb. But so somebody would 110 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: talk into it and you'd look at it and say, oh, 111 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: the restaurant opens at five pm, muchas Gracias, which would 112 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: be a weird thing to say in Germany, but you know, 113 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: you then move on with your life. 114 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: Now you simultaneously translate it in their language. I needed 115 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: that so bad voice. I needed that so bad. 116 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: When I was in Russia one particular day one I 117 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: wanted coffee so bad because I'm a coffee addict, and 118 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: I spent like an hour and a half trying to 119 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 3: figure out how I could find a coffee place, order 120 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: the coffee once I was there, pay for it. It 121 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: was just impossible. It would have been effortless with that, Katie. 122 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: You guys are talking about all of these beautiful countries. 123 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, I have a nail appointment later. Yes, 124 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 2: oh to find out what they're actually saying. You know 125 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: what that will dream? 126 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 3: There's that or the gardener guy who in my landlord hired, 127 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 3: who kept letting my dog out and I wanted to 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: talk to about it. 129 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: I didn't speak Spanish. I should have used this for 130 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: that stop letting my dog out? 131 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: You can just play him who let the dogs out? 132 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: He probably knows that song anyway, moving along, So I 133 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: thought that was amazing in a cool tool, and you 134 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: know the future is now blah blah, blah. So getting 135 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: to the topic of students cheating. I came across a 136 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: really interesting Twitter thread and this guy's writing about has 137 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: anyone asked to stop. 138 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: To ask why students cheat? I heard, Yes, I heard 139 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: the dumbest story the other day. This is typical of 140 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: mainstream media about AI and cheating. 141 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: The lead being. 142 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: Instructors are telling students not to cheat. But it turns 143 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 3: out some in college. I think it was Stanford. Turns 144 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: out Stanford crafted the questions for their latest test using AI. What, Gibbs, 145 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: I thought, that makes perfect sense to use AI to 146 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 3: craft the questions for the test. 147 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: What is that to your question? 148 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 3: Right? 149 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: The article? 150 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this guy's premise is everyone's cheating their way 151 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: through college chat, GPT and others have unraveled the entire 152 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: academic project. And I thought this was really interesting and 153 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: somewhat troubling. And he delves into the article and interprets it. 154 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: Interprets it by revealed preference. Students must think the work 155 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: they do in class is a waste of time. Fake 156 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: bonding activities and hippie gardening clearly aren't worth their time. 157 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: They're talking about some of the classes they take, so 158 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: they outsource it to AI anything fun or interesting. They 159 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: still do by hand, hm, but this the profile is Sarah's, 160 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: a freshman at the university, said she first used chat 161 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: ept to chat during the spring semester of her final 162 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: year of high school. After getting acquainted with the chatbot, 163 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: she used it for all her classes, Indigenous studies, law, English, 164 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: and hippie farming classes called green Industries. My grades were amazing, 165 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: she said, it changed my life. She continued to use 166 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: AI when she started college this past fall. 167 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't she? 168 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,359 Speaker 3: Then the phrase cheating changed my life? 169 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: So and then they quote this professor, a philosophy professor 170 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: across the country at the University of Arkansas, Little Rock 171 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: caught students in her ethics and Technology class using AI 172 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: to respond to the prompt briefly introduce yourself and say 173 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: what you're hoping to get out of this class? 174 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: Wow? Yeah, yeah, So I think I know where you're 175 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: going with the Is it even a good idea to 176 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 3: try to stop them? Because the future might be just 177 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: learning how to use AI as a tool, right to 178 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: answer any question or to do anything at an enormous 179 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 3: and horrifying cost, stay with us. 180 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: So then I found this really interesting too. And as 181 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: I said at the beginning of the segment, this is 182 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: going to be unsatisfying and just scratch the surface, and 183 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: I wish we had unlimited time for it. But this 184 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: author then gets into a student who wants to write 185 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: by hand. I really like writing, she said, sounding strangely 186 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: nostalgic for a high school commerce class, which was last 187 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: time she wrote an essay unassisted. Honestly, she continued, I 188 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: think there's beauty and trying to plan your essay you 189 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: learn a lot. You have to think, oh, what can 190 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: I write in this paragraph? Or what should my wife scheem? 191 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: But she'd rather get good grades an essay with chatch EVT. 192 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: It's like it just gives you straight up what you 193 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: have to follow. You just don't really have to think 194 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: that much. And so because the curriculum is designed not 195 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: to learn but to check boxes, you're much better off 196 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: using chat GPT, for instance, than trying to think it through. 197 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: I'm thinking out louder, So don't beat me with both 198 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: fists before I've finished myself. I can't wait if you 199 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 3: will never have to write because you've got a tool 200 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 3: that will write for you. 201 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: Do you need to. 202 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: Learn to write? 203 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: Yes? 204 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: Why I will explain in a moment. It's a great question. 205 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: It's probably the question. And then the final thing that 206 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: he gets into is college as liberal arts education and 207 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: college's jobs program are fundamentally incompatible goals. The way we 208 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: evaluate students has terrible incentives and isn't predictive anyway. The 209 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: learning done on colleges has a very weak relationship to 210 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: real world goals. 211 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: You're there to. 212 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: Network and meet people, notice it. Yeah, and you don't 213 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: learn a damn thing anyway. So then we can get 214 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: into how to stop kids from cheating or students from 215 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: cheating and this you want to come. 216 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: Back and do that because I want to hear that. 217 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: I would actually like to hear that the any any 218 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 3: any ideas or efforts, because I can't imagine what they 219 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 3: would be. 220 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: Well, and your your excellent, excellent question about what does 221 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: it matter anyway? 222 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: Well, I'll answer that when we come back. 223 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 3: Okay, Wow, my kids are headed out into a world 224 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: that I'm just we're all just guessing at as parents. 225 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the people developing this stuff are guessing. 226 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's a good point. Okay, all that's on 227 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: the waist. 228 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: He here, the Didny jury was just shown pictures of 229 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: when they broke into his house. Remember that guns, Ammo, stilettos, lube, 230 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 3: and sex toys, among other things from his Miami Beach mansion. 231 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: More on the Didny trial. 232 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: Yes, uh so, a couple of articles we're gonna quote 233 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: here as we continue our discussion of AI and cheating 234 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: in schools, and ones from Tyler Cowen who wrote for 235 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: The Free everyone's using AI to cheat at school. 236 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: That's a good thing. And he goes into the description of. 237 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: The uproar over cheating and how one study suggests up 238 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: to ninety percent of college students have used chat GPT 239 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: to do their homework, and how the state of affairs 240 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: has set off a crisis among educators' parents and students. 241 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. He says, I think this. 242 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: Crisis is ultimately good news, and not just because I 243 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: believe American education was already in a profound crisis AMEN 244 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: the result of ideological capture, among other things. These models 245 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: are such great cheating AIGs because they are also such 246 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: great teachers. Often they are better than the human teachers 247 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: we put before our kids, and they're far cheaper at 248 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: that they will not unionize or attend pro Hamas protests, 249 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. 250 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's funny. You mentioned that at the beginning. 251 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 3: I'm way more worried about the wokeness in schools than 252 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: figuring out the AI cheating stuff. 253 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then. 254 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: He he says a couple of interesting things. But if 255 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: the current AI can cheat effectively for you, the current 256 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: AI and also write better than you. In other words, 257 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: our universities are not teaching our citizens sufficiently valuable skills. Rather, 258 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: we are teaching them that that which can be cloned 259 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: at low cost. The AIS are already very good at 260 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: those tasks, and they will only get better at a 261 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: rapid pace. Whatever you think of the intrinsic merits of 262 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: the proposed solutions can are tougher on our code really work. 263 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: They're missing the point. 264 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: The trouble with all the remedies is that they implicitly 265 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: insist that we must do everything possible to keep wasteful 266 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: instruction in place. The current system is misleading students about 267 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: the skills they'll need to succeed in the future, and 268 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: providing all the wrong incentives and rankings of student quality. 269 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: And then this goes on for a number of more. 270 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: Paragraphs of really interesting philosophizing about you know, education and 271 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: work skills and the relationship there and the future and 272 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: technology and a bunch of different stuff. 273 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: We'll post the link. You'll probably get paywalled. 274 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, steal somebody's password at Armstrong and getty 275 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: dot com under hotlinks. I'll send it to the crew 276 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: in a couple of seconds. But then I came across 277 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: this how we doing for time? 278 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: Pretty good? 279 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: John Goyette, who is a vice president dean emeritis of 280 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: Thomas Aquinas College, and he describes the situation similar fashion 281 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: as mister Cowan about how cheating is rampant. We're still 282 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: in the early stages of the AI era, but the 283 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: future of higher education looks bleak. Early research suggests what 284 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: educators know intuitively. AI assistants can boost students' short term performance, 285 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: but it enervates long term meaning deadens long term comprehension, 286 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: especially after the digital crutches are taken away. A student 287 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: who aiss a quiz without studying the material has learned nothing. 288 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: The same is true. 289 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: The same is true for a student who completes an 290 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: essay without performing research, contemplating the subject matter, refining and 291 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: ordering arguments, or painstakingly choosing the exact words to express 292 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: the right idea. These students fail not only to retain knowledge, 293 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: but also to develop their capacities for creative and critical thinking. 294 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: Even where AI usage doesn't cross obvious ethical lines, it 295 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: usually undermines learning. And his point is that when you 296 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: are learning a skill, you're not just learning the skill. 297 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: When you learn to write, you're not just learning to write. 298 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: You are developing and strengthening your brain in a way 299 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: that you will use for the rest of your life, 300 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: no matter what tools are at your disposal. 301 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: That's all interesting, and I'm not going to argue against that, 302 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 3: but I am a nihilist on this AI stuff. Whatever. 303 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 3: That's what people are going to do. That's what everybody's 304 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: gonna do. There's no stopping it. And what that leaves us, 305 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 3: I don't know. 306 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, he says, just a finish. 307 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: Collegies should institute a more personal and in person approach 308 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: to assessment. 309 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: Good band take home exams. 310 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, the idea of you have to do anything style, Yeah, 311 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 3: you have to write it in class. 312 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: That might be, not might be it's the only way. 313 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: And socratic discussion that sort of thing, Yeah, interesting, which 314 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: I like Anyway, where's the big beautiful bill? Man? 315 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 2: There have been some agreements overnight you might not. 316 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 3: Like Armstrong and Getty. 317 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 5: There is nothing that Donald Trump cares more about getting 318 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 5: done at this point than passing this bill. And he's 319 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 5: willing to get up at eight thirty in the morning 320 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 5: and go to Capitol Hill to try and convince these 321 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 5: members to do so. They believe, again, this is his legacy. 322 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 5: The economy is his legacy. 323 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: We're going to give you a real time update and 324 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: where we are on the big beautiful bill that will 325 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: affect everyone's life today. And freaking whooping cough. So I 326 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 2: sing it down because my son has whooping cough. 327 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: I said to the doctor, my son just got his 328 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 3: t DAP update like six months ago, and he said, 329 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 3: did you know anybody who got the covid bat seene 330 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: who then got covid Ah. 331 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 2: So it makes it much less likely that you'll. 332 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 3: Get whooping cough or TETN, but it doesn't keep you 333 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 3: from getting it. We all have that or I've always 334 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 3: had that belief that a vaccine means I'm never going 335 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: to get it, but apparently that's not true. Anyho, back 336 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 3: to the Big Beautiful Bill. It affects every one of 337 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 3: us and our children probably, so it's a big deal. 338 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 3: This is a member of the Freedom Couckers, who I 339 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: have at various times agreed with wholeheartedly. In various times 340 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: thought they were crazy hostage takers, but in this case 341 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 3: they're mostly just trying to keep the debt from exploding. Anyway, 342 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 3: here's the latest from one of their members. 343 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 6: We are working within the goalposts you voted for. You 344 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 6: can I answer the question or you just want to 345 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 6: You want. 346 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: To fill a us You can. 347 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 7: Not accurate, You're not very we are. We are working. 348 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 7: We're working within the goalposts. I'm not saying we need 349 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 7: to we need to move the. 350 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 6: Amount of cuts up, because goodness knows, we moved them 351 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 6: ount of spending yesterday with the Salt agreement. We're saying, 352 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 6: work within the goalposts. Rearrange it within the gold hosts. 353 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 6: In accordance, we'll what the President wants. End waste frawden 354 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 6: abuse in medicaid, which is wasting dollars that should be 355 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 6: spent on the truly vulnerable, and then end as much 356 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 6: of the green new scam as possible, Right. 357 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: Mister, Chet's a man called Andy Harris, So from the 358 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal. Let me set the table, as they 359 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: say in the table setting business. First, of all, the 360 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: Republicans have one of the slimmest majorities in the history 361 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: of our country. Speaker Johnson can afford to lose free, 362 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 3: free Republican votes to pass what he wants to pass. Now, 363 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 3: in the olden times, which isn't that long ago, when 364 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: you passed a big, giant budget bill like this, you 365 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 3: had mostly people in your party, but a whole bunch 366 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: of people from the other party, And then you had 367 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 3: the fringes of both parties that were unhappy with it, 368 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: the socialists on the left, like the fiscal arts on 369 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 3: the right, or whichever. But it was mostly your party 370 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 3: and a whole bunch of people. Now, no, only your 371 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 3: party votes for it and the other party votes for 372 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 3: it exclusively every time. 373 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: And it used to be if you have a decent majority, 374 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: you could say, all right, eleven people in swing districts 375 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: who aren't going to like this very much, we'll take 376 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: your application for voting against this, and we won't hold 377 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: it against you. And thirteen people raise their hands, and 378 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: you say, all right, we can only take eleven york 379 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: it out in conference. But this majority is so slim. 380 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: Well got to have completed aherentes practically. 381 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 3: Right, and then just this era of everybody from the 382 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 3: other party has to vote against it or you'd get 383 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 3: primary to lose. Right for everything is a dumb way 384 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 3: to run a country, But anyway, Wall Street Drummer rights broadly, 385 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 3: the proposal would boost spending on defense and border security, 386 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 3: reducing spending on medicaid and food assistance. Hiring tax cuts 387 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 3: would be extended permanently, so the Trump tax cuts of 388 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen would become permanent under this, and the bill 389 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: would create new tax cuts that implement temporary versions of 390 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 3: Trump's plans to eliminate taxes on tips, overtime pay, and 391 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: social security benefits. The proposals projected to increase budget deficits 392 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 3: by nearly three trillion dollars through twenty thirty four. 393 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: Man I wish the Conservative Party had won the last 394 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: election the fiscally responsive responsible party. 395 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 3: The House Rules Committee started debating the bill at one 396 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 3: a m. The morning, trying to tee up the measure 397 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: for a full vote in the House because Johnson was 398 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: really hoping to get it voted on today. So they 399 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: started at one o'clock in the morning. They're in their 400 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: suits and ties and dresses and heels to get this 401 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 3: all going, hoping that they could vote for it today. 402 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 3: It still remains to be seen if that can actually 403 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 3: happen or not. Let me read some more. And this 404 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 3: is like hot off the presses. This is the very 405 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 3: latest House Republican struggled to lock down enough votes to 406 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 3: pass the big beautiful bill. Likely today they're still hoping 407 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 3: that they can to find the right combination of spending 408 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 3: and tax changes to please the two warring wings. I'm 409 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 3: gonna call the warring wings. This isn't the Wall Street Journal. 410 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 2: This is me. 411 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 3: The whatever Trump wants wing I'll vote for. And the 412 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: holy crap, we're gonna ruin our country we spend too 413 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 3: much money wing. Those are the two wings in my mind. Yeah, 414 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 3: passage would mark a major win for Trump and a 415 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 3: step toward extending the tax cuts, cementing other consumative conservative priorities, 416 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 3: but the fate of the measure was expected to go 417 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 3: down to the wire, with the final text yet to 418 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 3: be released. Party dealers struck a deal late last night 419 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 3: with blue state moderates who have fought for a higher 420 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 3: cap on the state and local tax the salt deduction. 421 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: So that looks like it's gonna happen at a fairly 422 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 3: high level. At least this bill that's going to go 423 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 3: to the Senate is going to have that in there. 424 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 3: But they still have problems on the other side of 425 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 3: the gap with conservative a GOP, with conservative hard liners 426 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 3: demanding faster spending reductions in Medicaid and quicker phase outs 427 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 3: of clean energy tax breaks. Who are Republicans who want 428 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 3: to hold on to this clean energy tax breaks? Well, 429 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: that would be the whatever Trump wants crowd. Well, I 430 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: guess no, I would disagree. 431 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: No, it's the I'm getting ten million dollars every six 432 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: months in my district from federal handouts that were signed 433 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: in law by Biden. Biden, it's the old old story. 434 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: We don't need these tanks anymore. Yeah, you're gonna keep 435 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: making them because the plant is in my district. We 436 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: don't need these fake windmills anymore. Yeah, Well, you're gonna 437 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: keep giving us money in my district. 438 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 3: That we just heard from Andy Harris, he's the chair 439 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 3: of the House Freedom of Caucus who is trying to 440 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 3: hold the line on fiscal conservatives somewhat. He said to 441 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal. We actually stopped negotiating before midnight 442 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 3: because we actually had a deal that was then pulled 443 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 3: off the table. So this bill actually got worse overnight. 444 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 3: There's no way it passes today, he said. And again, 445 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 3: when you can only lose three, he's got a lot 446 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 3: of leverage. 447 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 2: Right. 448 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: The salt deductions are indefensible morally, absolutely triotically. The rest 449 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: of it there nears cost me zillions of dollars the 450 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: removing of them. 451 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 3: But the moderates in the high tax states argued for 452 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: a more generous cap on state local tax deductions. They 453 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 3: were nearing a deal to boost the cap to forty 454 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: thousand dollars from the thirty thousand dollars at the House 455 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 3: and Means Ways and Means Committee approved, so forty thousand dollars. 456 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 457 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: Well, I'm horrified by the fact that Trump said, don't 458 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: f with medicaid, because medicaid is so bloated and horrible 459 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: and full of fraud, and it's exploded beyond any resemblance 460 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: to its original purpose. It could be I stand ready 461 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: to be convinced that Trump, with his his highly practical, 462 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: transactionictional view of politics as opposed to highly principle would 463 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: say to me, Joseph, listen, there's no appetite in the 464 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: country for that sort of reform. If we insist on that, 465 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: we're going to lose our opportunity to. 466 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 2: Do X, Y and Z. Is it stupid? Yes? 467 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: Are we mortgaging our children's future in a way that 468 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: they can't possibly pay back? Yes, we are. But it's 469 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: the best we can get, so shut up. Maybe that's 470 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: the cold reality. I don't know, but I hate it. 471 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 3: There are seventy million people un medicaid currently under the 472 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 3: new work requirements that would be imposed by this bill, 473 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 3: most childless adults without disabilities between nineteen and sixty four 474 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 3: with what, oping, God, that's my disability? Why I can't 475 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 3: we ought to be on Medicaid. 476 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 2: Get on it. 477 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 3: So working age males who don't have anything wrong with 478 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 3: them would have to provide documentation that they worked eighty 479 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: hours a month prior to applying. 480 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: Well, good luck with that making that work. 481 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: Last I heard it's worked or volunteered, Yeah, exactly, studied 482 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: or tried to work. 483 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 3: Or have a family friend who will sign off on 484 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 3: a thing claiming you work. I personally have known plenty 485 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 3: of people who jobbed that whole system and currently do 486 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 3: I like when I'm listening to NPR or any mainstream 487 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: media how they always talk about the number of people 488 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 3: that would be kicked off under some Republican proposals, never 489 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: with the idea that there might be some people that 490 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 3: should be kicked off. They presented as it's every single 491 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: person deserves every single one of these seventy million people 492 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 3: getting taxpayer funded healthcare deserves it right. 493 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: And to ask them to pay for it the air 494 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 2: damn cells is a horror. 495 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: How dare he is like the rest of the heartless 496 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: heartless conservative We'll see where this goes. 497 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 3: The threats have only begun, I'm sure from Trump and 498 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 3: his allies against the Freedom Caucus members who might be 499 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 3: old and it's up today about being primaried or or worse. 500 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 2: The sort of phone calls you get, tweets you get. 501 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, I don't know. You call it the 502 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: Big Beautiful Bill. I'm calling it the huge horrendous horror. 503 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: It's unless I come up with something better. It's literally 504 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: called the Big Beautiful Bill. They changed the name of 505 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: it yesterday. That's the actual name of the legislation now, 506 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: kind of like the and you can name. As we 507 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: all learn, you can name a bill anything. 508 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 3: You could call it Freddy the Bill if you want, 509 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 3: or you can call it the Inflation Reduction Act when 510 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 3: it's got nothing to do with that. 511 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: So as we all an, the late Great Abraham Lincoln 512 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: taughtis how many dogs? 513 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: How many can I have? A second takes, Michael? Do 514 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 2: we have enough? Tastes good? All right? As the late 515 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: do I need to do the intro again? Or just 516 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: the punchline? Do the whole whole thing? 517 00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: As the as the late Great Abraham Lincoln taughtis, how 518 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: many legs does a dog have? If you call its 519 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: tail a leg? The answer is four. You can call 520 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: it's tail a leg. That doesn't make it a leg. 521 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: You could call it the big beautiful bill. You can 522 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: name it the big beautiful bill. It's the huge horrendous horror. 523 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: That's a good quote right there. It's the big what's 524 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: another good B word? Big? I can't think of like 525 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: a derogatory adjective with a bee, because betrayal will be 526 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: the third word. More like the big bitchy betrayal, except 527 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: bitchy doesn't really work. 528 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: Bulls would be pretty good. Oh that is good, but 529 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: we can't say that on the air. We can, my jehad. 530 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 3: Can you imagine if we said that on the air, 531 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 3: what would happen? Children would be crying, oh please, Pregnant 532 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 3: women would be you know, their water would break? 533 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, the sighted would go blind. Then blind 534 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: would go death. I mean if somebody said bulls on 535 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: the air, blind would go death. 536 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 3: Norm from Cheers died. We got a little tribute to him, 537 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: among other things on the way. Stay tuned, everybody, what 538 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 3: do you know? 539 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 5: Not enough? 540 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: Haven't done? Anybody? Better give me a tall one cause 541 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 2: I like it, need anybody. I was life drinking your Norm. 542 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: I just ran over its dog my nipples. It's freezy 543 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: out there. 544 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: How can I laving on? 545 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 3: Well, I ain't gonna need something to kill time before 546 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 3: my second beer. 547 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 2: How about the first one? 548 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: George Way, who played Norm on Cheers, died yesterday, not 549 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 3: very old. I didn't know any six. I think I 550 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 3: didn't know. 551 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: Jason Sudacas was his nephew. His sister. 552 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 3: Is Jason Sakas's. But I was just looking up at 553 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 3: the TV. In Boston. If you've ever been there, they 554 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 3: got a Cheers bar that calls itself Cheers and looks 555 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 3: a lot like Cheers, and people go there to buy 556 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 3: t shirts and hats and get their picture taken. 557 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 2: Anyway, it was full of people this morning. Looking at 558 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 2: the crowd. 559 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: It's mostly people who don't need much of a reason 560 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 3: to drink in the morning. 561 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: Looking at that crowd, Yeah. 562 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: Wow, judge him, Judgerson. Well, he was a beloved character 563 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: and he'll be missed. He actually had a pretty good 564 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: career on Broadway after that. I guess, partially trading on 565 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: his fame and Cheers. But why wouldn't you. I mean, 566 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: there's a zillion good actors. Somebody's got to get the job. 567 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 2: He's also famous for dull bears all right. 568 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: Yeah on Saturday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. So here 569 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: is something entirely good. I think after bringing you down 570 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: for most of the show today, have just I just 571 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: I've had it. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna blow 572 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: sunshine up. 573 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 2: Your hind end or whatever. Thank you. 574 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 3: I did the reality. You need to be slacked in 575 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 3: the side of the head with reality. That's gotta feel refreshing. 576 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 3: It's like a sunshine but day. 577 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: Anyway, I came across this, uh, written by a feller 578 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: my school banned phones for the year. Here's what happened. 579 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: I can cut to the end. It was a struggle 580 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: at first, right, They went with the pouches first, and 581 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: the kids with their phone in the sealed pouch still 582 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: felt the dopamine burst whenever the vibration went off. 583 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: Naha, I had to know. Somebody texted me, I'll but 584 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 2: it's a very very important right, I just got a 585 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: social media alert. They had to see. It drove the mad. 586 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: Students started taking pens and stabbing them through the fake 587 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: kevlar pouches. Other kids started using their keys to saw 588 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: the locking mechanism off. Others would bring two phones to school. 589 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: They'd let the dean watch them pop their old phone 590 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: into the pouch and entry and keeps their main phone 591 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: in their backpack until the coast was clear. 592 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: Kids. 593 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: Well, one kid even got intro entrepreneurial about it. He 594 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: went on Amazon and bought the magnet that unlocked the 595 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: phone pouches for fifty bucks. Then he charged kids at 596 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: dollar every time they wanted to unlock their phone. Yes, 597 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: kid made a tidy prophet. By the time we confiscated 598 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: the magnet. You just got to admire that kid. Sure, 599 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: But then the school which kept on trying this year. 600 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: Students must hand in their phones at entry or we 601 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: immediately call their parents. The phones are plugged into safe 602 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: boxes that the students are not allowed to access until 603 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: the final bell is wrung. There are no constant vibrations 604 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: reminding you you're missing out on something, and there are 605 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: no pouches to rip, and they instituted and this is 606 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: going to take a little spine, which is in short 607 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: supply in modern America. Consequences for smuggling your phone past 608 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: entry are high, immediate attention calling parents. That's next personal 609 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: visit from the dean mid class. There were some pushback, 610 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: but we teachers stuck to our guns because they got 611 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: the backing of the administration. 612 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 3: Here's my prediction, we won't be doing this news story 613 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 3: in five years because it will not be unique in 614 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 3: that everybody is going to be doing it at every school. 615 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 3: And we're going to look back on the era where 616 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 3: they allowed phones like, what the hell were we thinking? 617 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 2: Right? 618 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: Like they were letting the kids have sex in class, 619 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: I mean just utterly unthinkable. Well, like you know, back 620 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: in our day, it would have been a you know, 621 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: a thirty six inch TV screen in class wait a minute, 622 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: you let Joe bring a big screen TV into class. 623 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 3: Well, I only get three channels and there's nothing on 624 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 3: during the day, so it wouldn't have been that helpful. 625 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: But anyway, so they get to the point they are 626 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: now where they've figured out how to actually keep the 627 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: phones away from the kids, and I read on the 628 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: results have been spectacular. Teachers don't have to fight an 629 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: impossible battle against tech. Students talk to each other between classes. 630 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: The cafeteria has the sound of conversation. Teachers cover material faster. 631 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: Cyber bullying has fallen a lot. When a fight happens, 632 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: half the school doesn't immediately run out of the classroom 633 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: to watch mindless doom. Scrolling happens on their time, not 634 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: school time. Boys can't watch porn in the bathroom or 635 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: the cafeteria. I don't have to fight an impossible war 636 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: against the greatest human behavioral psychologist Silicon Valley has ever employed. 637 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: Let me read that again, a teacher saying, I don't 638 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: have to fight an impossible war against the greatest human 639 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: behavioral psychologists Silicon Valley has ever employed. Seriously, here's a 640 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: typical scenario in my gym. Well, and then he talks 641 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: about in gym class how the kids go along with 642 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: it and they end up having fun and having a laugh. 643 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: And last year I was battling the greatest entertainment system 644 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: the world ever unleashed student would listen to my plays, 645 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: please say, They would get up and then immediately f 646 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: off on their phone again. Why would you play in 647 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: the gym when you could sit against a wall and 648 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: watch endless entertainment personally curated for your tastes. Now I 649 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: battle boredom and that's a winnable fight, personally curated for 650 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: your taste. So I want to talk about that inn 651 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: Hour four it. 652 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 3: Man, you gotta be careful of what you click on 653 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 3: because then the algorithm will think you like it and 654 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 3: feed you in endlessly. 655 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 2: And I'm not this into it, hey, algorithm, I was 656 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 2: a one mistake. I'm not this into this. 657 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: Well, ban all smartphones now, got a great hour four 658 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: coming up. If you don't get our four you're busy, 659 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 1: grab it later via podcast Follow us Armstrong and Getty 660 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you like to get podcasts. Armstrong and 661 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: Getty