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Speaker 1: Welcome to another special bonus episode of Monster BTK. My

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Speaker 1: name is Nomes Griffin. I'm one of the writers and

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Speaker 1: producers for this season of Monster. While we were in

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Speaker 1: production for the show, I flew to Wichita to meet

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Speaker 1: up with another writer and producer, Jesse Funk, and our

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Speaker 1: host Susan Peters. Over the course of three days in Wichita, Jesse, Susan,

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Speaker 1: and I sat down to interview Steve Ralford, Charlie Otero,

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Speaker 1: Bob Smeiser, and Larry Hatteberg. And Susan also acted as

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Speaker 1: our Wichita tour guide, showing us the city she's called

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Speaker 1: home for decades. We took time each day we were

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Speaker 1: there to visit the important locations in this story. Susan

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Speaker 1: told us that when she first met Steve Ralford, she

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Speaker 1: was able to accompany him to the home where his

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Speaker 1: mother was killed. It was an emotional experience for both

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Speaker 1: of them. She shared that for her the visit was

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Speaker 1: a chance to support a grieving Steve and pay her

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Speaker 1: respects to his late mother, Shirley Vayanne. But she didn't

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Speaker 1: have that for every victim, and in particular, she wanted

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Speaker 1: a chance to do that for the Otto family.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, perfect, So you went to I'm so sorry, honey. Well, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna call you later on today to see how

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Speaker 2: you're feeling.

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Speaker 1: As we pulled into the Otaro's former neighborhood, Susan called

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Speaker 1: up Charlie Otero, the eldest of the Otaro siblings, and

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Speaker 1: they chatted briefly.

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Speaker 3: All right, honey, I love you.

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Speaker 1: When they hung up, we walked up the sidewalk to

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Speaker 1: the front of the house. It was a warm sunny

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Speaker 1: day and a rooster was crowing from the backyard. The

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Speaker 1: house faces a major street, so cars passed by rather frequently.

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Speaker 2: So I'll just be honest. I had never been to

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Speaker 2: this house before. I've reported on it one and a

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Speaker 2: half million times, seen it in video over and over

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Speaker 2: and over again. But coming to this property, I have

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Speaker 2: a pit in the middle.

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Speaker 3: Of my stomach.

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Speaker 2: It is so so haunting because you look at the

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Speaker 2: front door, everything's the same. It's a small white home

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Speaker 2: where a wonderful family lived in an average part of

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Speaker 2: town in Wichita, Kansas. It's a tree lined street with sidewalks.

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Speaker 2: This is a family neighborhood. In the seventies, this was

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Speaker 2: a total family neighborhood. The kids walked to school. Charley

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Speaker 2: O'tero walked to Southeast High School from this neighborhood. It's

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Speaker 2: on a busy street, and it was on a busy

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Speaker 2: street in the seventies. This was a neighborhood where you

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Speaker 2: thought you were safe. In the nineteen seventies in Wichita, Kansas,

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Speaker 2: every place was safe, and that evil, evil, horrible man

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Speaker 2: killed two children in this home. Dennis Raider's famous thing

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Speaker 2: that he was known for is cutting the telephone cord.

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Speaker 2: There's a home what ten feet away, but he had

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Speaker 2: the illness, the sickness to come to the middle of

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Speaker 2: these two homes, cut the court the telephone line, and

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Speaker 2: then go to the front door with a gun. The

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Speaker 2: Otero family home here on Edgemore Street is the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the changing of the Wichital community. This is where

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Speaker 2: the Witchitalk community began to change from a sleepy, safe

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Speaker 2: town where no one locked their doors, to.

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Speaker 3: A town of.

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Speaker 2: Well, for years, horror, a town of horror, very very

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Speaker 2: haunting and unbelievable. Honestly, I am ripped apart being here

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Speaker 2: because it's the first time I've been here.

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Speaker 3: Knowing what Charlie.

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Speaker 2: Went through, my heart is broken seeing this house.

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Speaker 1: The house is occupied by another family, so he didn't

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Speaker 1: stay long. Next, Susan wanted to visit the house where

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Speaker 1: Steve Ralford grew up again.

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Speaker 2: I've been to this house before, just a small white

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Speaker 2: house on a busy street in the middle of Wichita, Kansas.

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Speaker 2: And it looks exactly the same as when I brought

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Speaker 2: Steve Ralford here in two thousand and five. And I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it looks exactly the same as it did when

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Speaker 2: Steve lived here in nineteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 3: It just doesn't look like it's changed much at home.

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Speaker 2: And after BTK was captured and we flew Steve Ralford

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Speaker 2: back to Wichita, I said, is there anything I can

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Speaker 2: do for you?

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Speaker 3: And he said, take me to the house.

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Speaker 2: So we picked him up and at the hotel and.

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Speaker 3: We brought him here.

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Speaker 2: I had already knocked on the door of the house

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Speaker 2: and said, I'm Susan Peters, can would come in Steve.

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Speaker 2: They were very nice and said yes. We walked Steve

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Speaker 2: and I walked into this house at thirteen eleven South

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Speaker 2: Hydraulic and he said, it looks exactly the same. It

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Speaker 2: looks exactly the same. The living room's there. He walked

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Speaker 2: directly into the bedroom back here of this house, knelt

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Speaker 2: down in his mom's bedroom and started saying a prayer

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Speaker 2: and cried his eyes out. It was the first time

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Speaker 2: he had been back since the day of the murder,

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Speaker 2: since the day he witnessed his mother being brutally killed

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Speaker 2: by BTK, and so for him to be inside the house,

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Speaker 2: I think it provided some sort of I don't want to.

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Speaker 3: Say closure, but it helped a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Seeing that it still exists and that it's with a

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Speaker 2: new family who's making new memories here.

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Speaker 3: The feeling that I get in front.

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Speaker 2: Of this house, I see Steve Ralford at this house,

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Speaker 2: but I don't see him as a six year old.

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Speaker 2: I see him as he is now, still a broken man,

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Speaker 2: and he'll even admit.

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Speaker 3: That day broke him.

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Speaker 2: My thought is of frustration, because a horrible parasite changed

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Speaker 2: a whole family's life forever inside this home by a

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Speaker 2: matter of chance. So my only other feeling besides complete sadness,

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Speaker 2: is very very much anger.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: About five minutes down the road from the Otto House

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Speaker 1: is where Catherine Bright lived in nineteen seventy four. The

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Speaker 1: houses that were once there have since been demolished.

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Speaker 2: So this is Hillside and thirteen and which Test states

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Speaker 2: at seventeen. Okay, here we are at the site where

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Speaker 2: BTK killed his fifth victim and changed the life of

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Speaker 2: her brother forever. On this corner, that's an empty lot

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Speaker 2: right now. There were several houses. It was close to

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Speaker 2: which Test State University, so students would rent. And that's

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Speaker 2: who is here on this busy corner.

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Speaker 1: On the lot where Catherine Bright's house once stood. You

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Speaker 1: can still see where the foundations were laid and where

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Speaker 1: the mailbox was. Today there's a neighborhood a block behind

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Speaker 1: the lot. It faces out to one of the busiest

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Speaker 1: intersections in East Wichita.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: They described it back then as her house being on

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Speaker 2: a hill.

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Speaker 3: This is much of a hill as you get and

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Speaker 3: which you talked to ANSAs. The most shocking thing about this.

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Speaker 2: Is how many people were around that day. There had

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Speaker 2: to have been so many. There were businesses on this corner.

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Speaker 2: That's all that was on this corner were businesses.

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Speaker 3: In fact, Kevin.

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Speaker 2: Bright, after he was shot, ran from this corner down

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Speaker 2: to a business down the street and said, call the police,

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Speaker 2: Call the police.

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Speaker 1: As we visited the second sight of a BTK murder.

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Speaker 1: Something sunk in for Susan.

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Speaker 2: I never registered. I'm gonna bend to some of the sites,

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Speaker 2: but it never registered.

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Speaker 3: They're all busy streets, right.

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Speaker 4: Why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: I think Dennis Raider had such an ego.

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Speaker 2: That he never thought he was going to be caught,

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Speaker 2: and he almost did in the back of his mind

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Speaker 2: did busy streets to say, I just dare you.

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Speaker 3: I don't care if it's a busy street.

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Speaker 2: He was a brazen evil person.

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Speaker 1: From the Hillside intersection, we continued east on Thirteenth Street

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Speaker 1: to stop by a place Susan calls home, the Cake

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Speaker 1: TV Station.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here we are in the Cake studios where we

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Speaker 2: did the newscast.

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Speaker 1: How does it feel to be in the newsroom were he's.

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Speaker 2: Been twenty five years? It feels wonderful. It still feels

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Speaker 2: like home to me. This studio still feels like home

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Speaker 2: to me. And the reason, I think one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons it does is because we went through so many

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Speaker 2: stories together and tragedies together, of course, the biggest one

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Speaker 2: being BTK.

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Speaker 3: We went through that together.

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Speaker 2: For a whole year and a half and it was

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Speaker 2: gut wrenching.

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Speaker 3: It took all of our emotions out.

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Speaker 2: Of us because we knew when we were sitting at

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Speaker 2: this set that I'm standing at right now, when we

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Speaker 2: were communicating BTK stories, we were communicating to BTK, we

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Speaker 2: were saying things that would get BTK to react and

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Speaker 2: send another clue. So we were sitting here at this set,

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Speaker 2: not only doing a newscast in this set, but we

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Speaker 2: were trying to catch a killer from the set.

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Speaker 4: He knew he was listening.

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Speaker 3: We knew he was watching every night.

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Speaker 2: We knew BTK was watching us from this news set

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Speaker 2: every night. He said it in his letters to us.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 1: Susan told us about her memories in the Cake studio

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Speaker 1: during the BTK era. The new generation of KKTV anchors

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Speaker 1: listened in.

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Speaker 2: And then another memory I have of the studio in

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Speaker 2: relation to BTK.

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Speaker 3: He pleaded guilty.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the preliminary hearing, Okay, So my call anchor

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Speaker 2: and I Jeff, we set up a special BTK set

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Speaker 2: for the preliminary hearing and the sentenzene hearing and all that.

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Speaker 2: It was in that corner of the studio was a

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Speaker 2: special BTK set, And we go on the air that

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Speaker 2: morning and Jeff and I are talking in this corner. Well,

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Speaker 2: the preliminary hearing starts at nine o'clock. Okay, oh, we'll

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Speaker 2: be out of the studio by nine fifteen, nine thirty,

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Speaker 2: because it's just a preliminary hearing, please agreement. We sat

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Speaker 2: in that corner with our mouths dropped open for four

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Speaker 2: hours as Dennis Rader described in detail every single murder,

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Speaker 2: in detail, horrifying detail, like he was being interviewed on

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Speaker 2: an entertainment show, like he was accepting an Academy award.

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Speaker 2: I'll never forget. We sat in that corner, stunned, our

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Speaker 2: stomachs in knots, and of course, as an anchor person,

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Speaker 2: you're taking notes as to what he said.

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Speaker 3: I still have all those notes.

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Speaker 2: I can't even believe what I was writing down because

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Speaker 2: we couldn't believe what he was saying. And that's the

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Speaker 2: other spooky memory I have of this set is in

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Speaker 2: that corner, us just sitting there as all of Wichita was.

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Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? This is evil? Over and over

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Speaker 3: and over again.

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Speaker 2: I did not know about this, Oh he said, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: that says David. I'll never forget that morning. It was

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Speaker 2: my daughter's first day at school. They were in grade

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Speaker 2: school still.

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Speaker 3: I had one.

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Speaker 2: In kindergarten and one four years older, so that would

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Speaker 2: be fourth grade. And I took him to school in

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Speaker 2: the morning. Was you know how emotional first day of

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Speaker 2: school is for parents. So I cried, dropped him off.

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Speaker 2: First day of school came right in the preliminary hearing

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Speaker 2: was starting at nine o'clock and I go, we can

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Speaker 2: get out of here because I just want to go

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Speaker 2: home and cry.

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Speaker 3: And we go. You know it's going to be fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: It was so weird going from dropping them off at

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Speaker 2: school and crying and then coming right to the studio,

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Speaker 2: never thinking in a million years you were going to

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Speaker 2: sit through four hours of pure vile evil. And I

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Speaker 2: wasn't crying for me. I was crying for the victims'

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Speaker 2: families who were in the courtroom that day. And we're

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Speaker 2: watching them on camera in the courtroom, and I said

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Speaker 2: to myself, I just got to drop my kids off

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Speaker 2: at school, and here they Charlie was a school kid himself.

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Speaker 2: Steve Ralford was five years old. He never got the

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Speaker 2: chance to go to a normal school life again after

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Speaker 2: he watched just Mom being killed. Not to get too philosophical,

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Speaker 2: but how does God choose. I mean, I know it's

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Speaker 2: not God that chooses, but I don't know. I'm sorry, day, I.

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Speaker 3: Guess the studio has more in motion than it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: so much evil was talked about in this studio.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think I'm done.

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Speaker 1: We left the studio so the anchors could prepare for

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Speaker 1: the afternoon newscast, and Susan took us downstairs to the newsroom.

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Speaker 1: Here she explained to us what would happen after the

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Speaker 1: station received a BTK letter.

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Speaker 2: So what would happen is the receptionist would get the

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Speaker 2: mail and she would get the feeling. The receptionists would

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Speaker 2: get the feeling that this is from BTK. She'd immediately

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Speaker 2: put on rubber gloves the news director and walk the

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Speaker 2: clue postcard back to the newsroom. Here, the news director,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm taking it through a maze.

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Speaker 3: This is the way I.

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Speaker 2: Used to get to the newsroom. So the receptionist would

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Speaker 2: call the news director. The news director would immediately get

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Speaker 2: his rubber gloves on and walk out and get the

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Speaker 2: letter and bring it up to the newsroom. And as

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Speaker 2: soon as the news director walked in the newsroom with

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Speaker 2: a clue or a letter from BTK. He'd call the

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Speaker 2: police first. Right after that, he'd call a photographer and say,

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Speaker 2: come shoot this video.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, got to get a video. So he'd go in

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Speaker 3: his office here.

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Speaker 2: The police would come right in this office. The news

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Speaker 2: director would put his rubber gloves on in case there

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Speaker 2: were fingerprints or anything. A photographer would come in and

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Speaker 2: the police would come in, confiscate the.

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Speaker 3: Clue or the letter. We did that four times.

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Speaker 2: The first letter BTK sent to us after he reappeared

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Speaker 2: was simply a piece of paper that said the BTK

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Speaker 2: story one through thirteen.

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Speaker 3: We made copies of that copy copy.

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Speaker 2: We went out into the newsroom and every single reporter here,

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Speaker 2: at every single desk you see a couple dozen desks here,

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Speaker 2: got a copy of that letter, and we just analyzed

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Speaker 2: and analyzed and analyzed. We were trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: what this was, who this guy was, and if this

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Speaker 2: could have given us any sort of clue. All of

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Speaker 2: us sat here in the newsroom and said we were scared.

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Speaker 1: Our final style was in Park City.

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Speaker 2: The city of Park City bought this house from Denis

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Speaker 2: Raider's ex wife and then tore it down because there

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Speaker 2: were so many gawkers and sightseers who would drive by.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there still are, especially with what has happened lately.

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Speaker 2: You can see remnants.

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Speaker 1: The week before our trip to Wichita, the news broke

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Speaker 1: that BTK was a suspect in the nineteen seventy six

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Speaker 1: disappearance a Missouri woman, Cynthia don Kenney. The month prior,

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Speaker 1: the Osage County Sheriff's Department in Oklahoma obtained apertmit to

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Speaker 1: search the lot for evidence.

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Speaker 2: You see the sidewalk that's newly ripped up, newly excavated,

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Speaker 2: because they found mementos from one of Denis Raiders killed

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Speaker 2: buried underground here just last month, and so I'm sure

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Speaker 2: other people are coming here to sightsee. But this is really, really,

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Speaker 2: really after all these years, it's been twenty almost twenty

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Speaker 2: years since he reappeared, almost twenty years since he reappeared,

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Speaker 2: and this is the first time, really in twenty years,

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Speaker 2: that Denis Raiders' home is the site of another crime scene,

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Speaker 2: if you will, freshly dug up dirt and sidewalk that

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Speaker 2: housed some of Denis Raiders mementos from past crimes, past killings.

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Speaker 2: And it's really weird to see it because you never

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Speaker 2: thought you'd see it again.

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Speaker 1: The sidewalk that Osage County tore up leads from independent

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Speaker 1: through the lot and behind neighbors' houses to a public park.

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Speaker 2: So the city built a walkway here that welcomes you

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Speaker 2: to this park down the street and behind his property.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost like we're turning this place where an

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Speaker 2: evil parasite used to live into something nice for children,

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Speaker 2: into something that will help children grow and play and thrive.

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Speaker 2: Carrie Rosson and I came here to her former residence

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Speaker 2: where Dennis Raider lived when she first came out with

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Speaker 2: her book a couple of years ago, and we walked

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Speaker 2: along the property. She pointed out, see those tulips over there,

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Speaker 2: My dad and I planted them. My dad taught me

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Speaker 2: how to plant tulips. See this over here, She pointed

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Speaker 2: to that tree and said, see that tree. My dad

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Speaker 2: built the neatest treehouse for us in that tree, and

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Speaker 2: we used to climb up in the treehouse all the time.

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Speaker 2: And she's walking through this lot reminiscing about her normal childhood.

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Speaker 4: What could you say? You know, I've noticed as we

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Speaker 4: were sitting, you know, walking through this property, well it

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Speaker 4: used to be his property. I've noticed two cars that

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Speaker 4: come pass, and you see they slow down.

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Speaker 2: That's why the city of Park City wanted to tear

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Speaker 2: the house down in the first place, because it used

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Speaker 2: to be a steady stream, just a steady stream of

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Speaker 2: gawker down this quiet little street. And now even though

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Speaker 2: the house is torn down and we're standing in the

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Speaker 2: middle of an empty lot, we still see cars driving

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Speaker 2: by pointing to the.

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Speaker 3: Lot that this is where BTK lived.

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Speaker 2: These neighbors here now, I'm sure they're very tired of

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Speaker 2: people coming down the street and gawking at the house.

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Speaker 2: But it'll happen that way forever and ever. There's no

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Speaker 2: stopping it.

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Speaker 4: As we sit here, also outside of Raider's house, you know,

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Speaker 4: when everything's done with the new investigations, and what do

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Speaker 4: you think should be done to this property? Should you

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Speaker 4: just leave it as land or should they do you

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Speaker 4: have you know, no.

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Speaker 3: That's a very good question.

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Speaker 4: What do you think should be put here that can

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Speaker 4: make it maybe that being such a landmark.

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Speaker 3: That is a very very good question.

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Speaker 2: I feel if it was a place that people had

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Speaker 2: access to, you wouldn't have people driving by. It would

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Speaker 2: just be another another thing on the street, and it

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Speaker 2: would cease to be be tk's property. If they built

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Speaker 2: something here that people could name, for instance, a food pantry,

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Speaker 2: maybe a mini park here the city of Parks city

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Speaker 2: could build. Maybe if they built a mini park here,

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Speaker 2: I don't think people would look at this area the same.

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Speaker 2: I think they'd look at it, look at it as

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Speaker 2: a park where kids could play and recreate. I don't

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Speaker 2: think they'd drive down the street and say that was

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Speaker 2: btk's house.

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Speaker 4: I agree, and as I'm sitting here and looking, you know,

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Speaker 4: a dog park.

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Speaker 1: I've spent the last two years working on this project,

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Speaker 1: and our trip to Wichita was one of the most

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Speaker 1: difficult parts. Not only were the interviews emotionally heavy, but

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Speaker 1: so were these site visits. The demolition of Dennis Raider's

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Speaker 1: home should have signaled the finality of this case, but

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Speaker 1: walking past the torn up sidewalk, it just goes to

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Speaker 1: show you that closure is fickle. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: Dennis Raider actually committed this nineteen seventy six murder, but

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Speaker 1: after this trip, I do know that the city of

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Speaker 1: Wichita is incredibly resilient,