1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

3
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: From house Stuff Works dot Com? Hey Welt in the

4
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,320
Speaker 1: podcast This is Molly, and then Kristin kristin today's episode.

5
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 1: Idea came from one of our listeners named Tanya, and

6
00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 1: she wrote in that in all the podcasts we have done,

7
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 1: which is more than a hundred and fifty by now

8
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,479
Speaker 1: you believe it, we have never discussed women in the

9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 1: art world. And she was right, and so she suggested

10
00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 1: we start with the Gorilla Girls as sort of way

11
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,680
Speaker 1: of getting in to this discussion of women in the

12
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 1: art world. And I think we should clarify right now

13
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: that we're talking about gorillas as an guerrilla warfare, not gorillas,

14
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 1: even though the Gorilla girls dressed up in gorilla suits. Yeah,

15
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I was about to say, you don't want

16
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,520
Speaker 1: to mislead people too much because their name is g

17
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 1: U e r R l l A. But they wear

18
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 1: masks g O r I l l A. Yes, yes,

19
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: gorillas dressed up like gorillas. So we took her advice,

20
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 1: and what a wonderful podcast we have for you on

21
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,000
Speaker 1: women in the arts and specifically who are the Gorilla Girls,

22
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:26,479
Speaker 1: because we mentioned them in our podcasts on women directors

23
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,160
Speaker 1: film directors. I think we gave them a little shout out.

24
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 1: But the Gorilla Girls got started because they got riled

25
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 1: up in about an exhibition entitled and International Survey of

26
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 1: Painting and Sculpture put on by the Museum of Modern

27
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: Art in New York UH and it was supposed to

28
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 1: be a survey of the most significant contemporary art in

29
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 1: all of the world. And according to this exhibit, um,

30
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 1: women weren't doing much because out of the hundred and

31
00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: sixty nine artists that were on display at the moment,

32
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 1: only thirteen of them were women. And they also made

33
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 1: note that all of the artists were white from Europe

34
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: or the US, and so it was, you know, it

35
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 1: was just such a small spectrum of the world apparently

36
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 1: making all the significant art, and it, you know, it

37
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 1: just as Christen said, it riled them up. So at

38
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,919
Speaker 1: first they just kind of you know, handed out some

39
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, pamphlets, they had a picket line, but it

40
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,800
Speaker 1: wasn't making any difference, Like no one noticed them. And

41
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,799
Speaker 1: so what they decided to do was to make this

42
00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 1: poster that pointed out this huge disparity, and they it

43
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 1: was very clever. They always use a lot of wit

44
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,240
Speaker 1: when they're making posters. They went out at nights and

45
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 1: no one would see them wearing these guerrilla masks. So

46
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 1: no one knows them because apparently most of them have

47
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 1: jobs in the arts. Three the artists themselves, their curators,

48
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 1: they work in museums, and it's such a small world

49
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,120
Speaker 1: that they didn't want to lose their jobs over this.

50
00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 1: But they would go out a night in these men

51
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: us and poster and so you'd wake up one day

52
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 1: and everywhere you turn to New York there be a

53
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 1: post to reminding you that MoMA exhibits no art by women.

54
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: And it started really in NINETI. The Guerrilla girls uh

55
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 1: took off and since then they have you know, obviously

56
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: they started with UM visual Arts, but UM lately they've

57
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,600
Speaker 1: been taking more of a stab to at the film

58
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 1: world as well. So just to give you an idea

59
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: what some of these posters are, Like, I printed off

60
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,240
Speaker 1: two of my favorites. There was one from called The

61
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: Advantages of being a Woman Artist, and it's a list

62
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 1: of it looks like fifteen bullet points that come with

63
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: being a woman artist, such as like um working without

64
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 1: the pressure of success because women are still to get

65
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: much success, having an escape from the art world and

66
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: your four freelance jobs, knowing your career might pick up

67
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 1: after your eighty being reassured that whatever kind of art

68
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 1: you make it will be labeled feminine, not being stuck

69
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 1: in a tenured teaching position, being include included in revised

70
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: versions of art history, not having to undergo the embarrassment

71
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: of being called a genius. So you can see it's

72
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,600
Speaker 1: very sarcastic, it's very cutting, it's um you know, it's

73
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: just a reminder that these women were not getting the

74
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,840
Speaker 1: appreciation that the men were. Another example from nine nine

75
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: was called a bus companies are more enlightened than New

76
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: York City art galleries, and they looked at a bunch

77
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,919
Speaker 1: of jobs and saw that the percentage of women in

78
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 1: jobs such as bus driving, carrying mail, driving trucks, and

79
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,280
Speaker 1: welding was either more or very similar to the percentage

80
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 1: of women artists in the major New York City galleries.

81
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 1: So what they are doing is the posters always have

82
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,280
Speaker 1: sort of a lot of data about ways in which

83
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: women are far outnumbered, and the gorilla girls sort of

84
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,919
Speaker 1: set out to be what they called the conscience of

85
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,160
Speaker 1: the art world. Yeah, they constantly call out the quote

86
00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 1: stale male pale yale perspective on art history. Basically the

87
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 1: fact that you know, are all of our history art

88
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:13,280
Speaker 1: history textbooks, UM, museums, galleries, it's always constantly exhibiting the

89
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 1: work um and revering the work of white guys essentially,

90
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 1: And it's just really a theme in a in a

91
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 1: in a lot of textbooks. But and another good point

92
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 1: that one of the posters was do you have to

93
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: be naked to get into this museum? Because the women

94
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 1: artists couldn't get in on the basis of their own work,

95
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,320
Speaker 1: but they could get in if they were painted naked

96
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 1: by you know, some Renaissance painter, right, because the majority

97
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 1: of the nudes and museums obviously are are of women.

98
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 1: I like the fact that the Grilla girls also have

99
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,840
Speaker 1: this kind of a cool anarchist flavor to them as well,

100
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 1: because not only do they ride around in uh in

101
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: guerrilla costumes and guerrilla mass but they also only go

102
00:05:54,240 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 1: under pseudonyms. They each choose UH female artists names to use. Um.

103
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,120
Speaker 1: The one who popped up the most, who seems to

104
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 1: be kind of the default spokes Gorilla if you will,

105
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 1: is one who a woman who chose um Kathy Colwitz,

106
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,599
Speaker 1: who is a German artist who lived from eighteen forty

107
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 1: five to nineteen My goodness, cowitz Um. That was her

108
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,320
Speaker 1: pseudonym and her later on we find out from Jeffrey

109
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 1: Tuban from The New Yorker that her real name is

110
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 1: apparently Erica Rothenberger. But we couldn't confirm much else on

111
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,920
Speaker 1: the internet, because, like you said, only these women are

112
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 1: very insistent on hiding their identities because they are in

113
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: the art world and they could kind of suffer some

114
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,880
Speaker 1: pretty intense repercussions, uh if if they found if people

115
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,159
Speaker 1: found out that they were guerrilla girls, even though now

116
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,560
Speaker 1: guerrilla girls have kind of become an accepted part of

117
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 1: the art world, wouldn't you say yes? I would Christens,

118
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 1: something that New York Times made clear in a two

119
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: thousand four profile, because you know, the women would walk

120
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 1: around on guerrilla I'm asking, the children would know who

121
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 1: they were, and the people just at these museums would

122
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,720
Speaker 1: know who they were. But this desire to be anonymous,

123
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: while it is protective in some ways, has also obviously

124
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 1: garnered them a lot of criticism because you know, these

125
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: collectors and these curators will say, you know, it's not

126
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 1: fair to just be charged with doing something wrong when

127
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: you don't know who you're being charged by, and you

128
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: know the nature of their criticism. Some say is so negative,

129
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: because yes, they can come up with this really funny

130
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: list of all the reasons that being a woman artist sucks,

131
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 1: or all the lists of the galleries who don't show

132
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 1: the men artists and why that sucks. But are they

133
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 1: offering constructive criticism or are they just running around in

134
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 1: guerilla suits getting attention for negative factors. Because one thing

135
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: I was struck by, uh when a girla girl didn't

136
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 1: interview with Fringe. They the interviewer, Lizzie Stark asked, you know,

137
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,679
Speaker 1: who would you put in an exhibit of women artists

138
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 1: in the twentieth century? Who were the best? Who do

139
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: you like? And Kathy Coleworts refused to answer because she's like, oh,

140
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: there's too many to name, And to me that just

141
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 1: kind of seemed like a cop out, Like if you're

142
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: agenda is to promote women in the arts, then give

143
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,000
Speaker 1: me some names. Like I'm ignorant about women in modern art,

144
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: like tell me who to to watch out for, and

145
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 1: I think that that's I think, I don't. I've been

146
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,960
Speaker 1: going back and forth on it since we started researching

147
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 1: this podcast, because again that goes this goes into the

148
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,040
Speaker 1: criticism of them. But if you're just saying put more

149
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,840
Speaker 1: women in a museum, it's just a matter of numbers.

150
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,320
Speaker 1: And guerrilla girls have been called quota queens, and we've

151
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 1: discussed before on this podcast, customer, how quota can be

152
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,319
Speaker 1: a very dirty word. It's just it's quality versus quantity.

153
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 1: And the guerrilla girls, don't, you know, champion artists, They

154
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,320
Speaker 1: just champion more women artists. But I will say there

155
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 1: was one really interesting point that Kathy Cole has made

156
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,160
Speaker 1: that because these numbers are so different, because the difference

157
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 1: between male artists and women artist exhibiting galleries is so large,

158
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 1: that you can't even have this discussion about quality yet

159
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: because there's obviously some factor that's keeping women out of museum.

160
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 1: So we first got to increase the numbers before we

161
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,080
Speaker 1: start talking about you know, is there a genius in

162
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 1: our you know, who were the great women artists of today? Etcetera, etcetera.

163
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,080
Speaker 1: So what do you think about that, Kristin I talked

164
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: for quite a bit there. Well. I think that, um,

165
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,320
Speaker 1: if anything as controversial as the Girl of Girls can be,

166
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,840
Speaker 1: I think that no matter what, you have to give

167
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:36,680
Speaker 1: them credit for their consciousness raising efforts, if you will, um,

168
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 1: whether or not you know, they promote specific female artists

169
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 1: in the right way or you know, the wrong way. UM,

170
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,199
Speaker 1: I don't think that you can disagree with the fact

171
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,200
Speaker 1: that it you know that it's good that they have

172
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 1: brought this issue to the forefront um in the art

173
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 1: world and have you know, really made people think a

174
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 1: lot about well, you know, who are re representing in

175
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: our galleries, who are re representing? Who are we representing

176
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: in these museums, in these um exhibitions. And I think

177
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 1: that this quote from Linda Shire, who was a curator

178
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 1: at the Museum of Modern Art and in the New

179
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: York Times kind of speaks to this aspect. She says,

180
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 1: in the last ten years and this was in Okay,

181
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 1: so this was a while ago, but it was also

182
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 1: when the Grilla Girls were really picking up steam. You know,

183
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,080
Speaker 1: they had not only published all these uh printed out

184
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: all these posters, they had also published a book and

185
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 1: all of that and She says that in the last

186
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,960
Speaker 1: ten years, but especially in the last five, there have

187
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,720
Speaker 1: been many, many more women artists visible on the scene.

188
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,600
Speaker 1: And it's partly a chicken egg thing. It's in the air,

189
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 1: but gorilla girls have been partly responsible for putting it

190
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: in the year UM. And so today, you know, twenty

191
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 1: years later, where are we UM. I think that maybe

192
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,040
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think that we do have

193
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,880
Speaker 1: to move beyond just talking about sheer quotas to maybe

194
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 1: talking about deeper issues in terms of UM, what is

195
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 1: feminist art? Is feminist art important? And UM also whether

196
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 1: or not we should be so focused on UM, you know,

197
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,080
Speaker 1: really promoting just women artists, you know, praising their work

198
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 1: as women artists, instead of focusing so much on quotas.

199
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,040
Speaker 1: Maybe we need to look deeper into maybe the value

200
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,520
Speaker 1: of feminist art and what does UM, what does women's art,

201
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, what role does it play in the greater

202
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,719
Speaker 1: spectrum of art history. For instance, there was some controversy

203
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 1: surrounding the National Women's Art Museum, wondering whether or not

204
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,959
Speaker 1: we're just coordinating these artists off into their own kind

205
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,080
Speaker 1: of pink hallway, if you will, instead of respecting them

206
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,280
Speaker 1: along with their you know, the male greats as well.

207
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,480
Speaker 1: And there was a Washington Post profile on that women's

208
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 1: art museum and they used to quote from Glorius Steynham

209
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: that I think maybe makes a lot of sense in

210
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,079
Speaker 1: this context, in that if you're offered the choice, Gloria

211
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,199
Speaker 1: I'm gonna paraphrase Gloria Stegn, but she said, if you're

212
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,360
Speaker 1: offered the choice between this or that, between this being

213
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 1: a woman's art museum and that being an art museum

214
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 1: with both men and women, take both. I mean, you know,

215
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,199
Speaker 1: that was sort of her permission that it is okay

216
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: to have a pink hallway, and I think that, uh,

217
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, that's sort of It's It's interesting. It's something

218
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 1: that we've gone over again and again in this podcast

219
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,960
Speaker 1: about whether by just pointing out that someone is female,

220
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 1: are we handicapping them versus are we pushing them to

221
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,280
Speaker 1: be truly equal in the spectrum of men. Well In

222
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 1: the author from the from the journalists of the Washington

223
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 1: Post also pointed out that, um, while yes, there is

224
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: some you know there, there's a little bit of a

225
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,679
Speaker 1: problem with having everything always designated off as the women's

226
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,840
Speaker 1: this or the women's that, But for art, specifically for

227
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: visual art. Having this showcase of women's art is a

228
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 1: clear demonstration that we don't all make the same kinds

229
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 1: of things. You know, we're not you know, they're not

230
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,240
Speaker 1: all painting bloody volvas if I if I may be graphic, um,

231
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 1: because that was a piece and in a woman's art show.

232
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 1: It's not like, yeah, it's not all it's not all

233
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,800
Speaker 1: menstrual art. You know that we are very thinking, complex

234
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,359
Speaker 1: people with varied interest just like you know, the museums

235
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 1: that might feature a lot more male artists. And I

236
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,080
Speaker 1: think that that makes as much of a statement, a

237
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 1: powerful statement and a positive statement, um, than you know,

238
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 1: kind of the other choice like stein I was talking

239
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 1: about of being hung up alongside you know, uh, Decooning

240
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 1: and Picasso and Pollock and all the rest. Well, and

241
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 1: I did notice that most of the recent articles about

242
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,680
Speaker 1: female artists, and we're not going to be able to

243
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: fully you know, go into this question today, Kristen. This

244
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 1: is you know, probably a topic for another time, but

245
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, the question that it seems that's being grappled

246
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 1: with sort of under the surface, is whether art produced

247
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 1: by a female is different than art produced by a man.

248
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,680
Speaker 1: All and some of these profiles in the Washington Post

249
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,840
Speaker 1: sort of made the point that the females are, especially

250
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 1: in the recent decades, has been more political than it

251
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 1: is just so different from you know, Renaissance art or

252
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,200
Speaker 1: Impressionism that how could you compare, How could you really

253
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,000
Speaker 1: say that this needs to be next to that when

254
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:22,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a different it's serving a different purpose. Well,

255
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: if we're talking about feminists art in particular, there was

256
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 1: a quote from um Jeremy Strick, who was the director

257
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: of the Museum of Contemporary Art in l a And

258
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 1: he says that the feminist art of the nineteen seventies

259
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 1: was the most influential international movement of any during the

260
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 1: post war period because their arguments and there are other

261
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 1: people other people in the art world who kind of

262
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 1: confirmed that agreed with that statement, and uh, and their

263
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 1: whole point was that feminine feminism kind of pushed back

264
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: against this art for art's stake attitude that was driven

265
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,120
Speaker 1: in large part by male artists at the time, and

266
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: brought back the politics of um of art. And so

267
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 1: I think that that really puts the guerrilla girls in

268
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 1: some context, and that that that article you're citing Kristen

269
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 1: sort of made the point that women, because they were

270
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: in such a time of up people with the feminist movement,

271
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: didn't have time just to be art for artists for

272
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 1: our sake. It was about making a statement, and that

273
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 1: is what the Gorilla Girls do. Like we said, they

274
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:27,480
Speaker 1: don't necessarily champion specific things, but they're making statements. They're raising,

275
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, questions in your mind about what you're seeing,

276
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 1: and that is sort of what artists designed do. You're

277
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: designed to walk away thinking about something in a new way.

278
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 1: So by that extension, you know, just the the existence

279
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,680
Speaker 1: of the Gorilla Girls is art in itself well. And

280
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: and for me, the kind of re examining this idea

281
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 1: of just feminist art because I don't think, um, you know,

282
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that, you know, uh, every

283
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 1: every piece of artwork created by a female artist is

284
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,920
Speaker 1: inherently um finist, but just this idea of feminist artwork

285
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 1: in general, um kind of made me think about it

286
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 1: in a in a little bit of a different light

287
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 1: because the Washington Post article points out that, um, you know,

288
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 1: the feminist artwork doesn't just deal with just the aspect

289
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 1: of women in terms of our relationship with our bodies,

290
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 1: but also just the fact that gender affects pretty much

291
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: everything in society, and and because of that, these artists

292
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: were attacking you know, not only bodies, but also class, race, consumerism,

293
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 1: the artwork are the art market, colonialism, politics, and cultural power.

294
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 1: Not to say that this isn't something that male artists

295
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: have been haven't been doing, but if the male artists

296
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 1: doing that very same thing has an easier time getting

297
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 1: in a museum then the female artists, then that would

298
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 1: be the inherent problem that the gorilla girls are trying

299
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 1: to fight again. Well, and it's different, and it's different

300
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 1: perspective too. I mean I think that, um, you know,

301
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 1: the point one of the purposes of great art is

302
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 1: to open your eyes to a different perspective on the world,

303
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 1: and if all those perspectives are not represented, then they

304
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,399
Speaker 1: aren't really doing you justice these kinds of museums and galleries,

305
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 1: Which gets to the point about who is designing the

306
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 1: museums and galleries. And that's you know why I talked

307
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 1: earlier about the quality versus quiet issue that guerrilla girls

308
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 1: would say that because you know, we've got white males

309
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 1: putting these exhibits together. That's why it's a matter of

310
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, numbers right now because they are so you know,

311
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,640
Speaker 1: it's almost like they're looking for ways not to include

312
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 1: all those perspectives because you know, those perspectives are sort

313
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 1: of designed to not put them out of power, but

314
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: to question their power. So it's you know, it's really

315
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,640
Speaker 1: reflective of a lot of things we've talked about over

316
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 1: the course of the podcast. But I want to talk

317
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 1: a little bit about the ninety one paper which did

318
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 1: a lot for the gorilla girls are on the scene

319
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 1: to make these curators think about what they were putting

320
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 1: on their walls. And that was a paper by Lynda

321
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,679
Speaker 1: Knockland in Art Historian, and it was called why have

322
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 1: there been No Great Women Artists? Now, before we dive

323
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: into this more, I think that we do need to

324
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 1: point out that, um, you know, women have not received

325
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 1: as much credit where credit has been due in art

326
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,200
Speaker 1: history simply because of certain um kind of cultural sidal

327
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,919
Speaker 1: factors holding them back. For instance, with painters guilds in

328
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 1: the medieval and Renaissance periods, a lot of women worked

329
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 1: in these um workshop systems. However, the guild rules UM

330
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 1: would forbid women from either reaching the rank of master

331
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 1: and their works produced in the guilds would always be

332
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 1: signed by the male workshop masters. So there were, you know,

333
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,879
Speaker 1: all of these works that were being created that wouldn't

334
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 1: be attributed to women. UM. A lot of women artists

335
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 1: back in the day would actually remain anonymous to protect

336
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 1: their identities. Or also there's you know, the issue of

337
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, taking their husband's name, so uh, their their

338
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 1: work might be incorrectly credited um, just because of naming conventions.

339
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: So it's like when when we think about, you know,

340
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,959
Speaker 1: why why we can't call out more of the um

341
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: more women artists throughout history, not just you know the

342
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 1: Genny Lassals and Adrian pipers today. But it might largely

343
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: be due to the fact that we are just underrepresented

344
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 1: from um lack of uh really just being allowed to

345
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 1: be UM recognized for it. And Knocklin kind of goes

346
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 1: into that in her introduction that there are a lot

347
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 1: of reasons why it would be hard for the female

348
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: equivalent of a Rembrandt or at Picasso to emerge. But

349
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, where where are those people are? There are

350
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,199
Speaker 1: those people out there at all? And so the paper

351
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 1: was sort of a plea to look at you know

352
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: who you're putting on the walls and why is it?

353
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 1: Is it a matter of just romanticizing these old male artists,

354
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: or are we genuinely overlooking good art? And so this

355
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: was published in Art News, and we found an article

356
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: from a few years ago where they were trying to

357
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: reconsider what had changed in the past thirty years since

358
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 1: the paper, you know, because now you may be able

359
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 1: to name a handful of female artists. But it gets

360
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 1: to this issue of quality versus quantity, which the Grilla

361
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: girls ignore. And they got a bunch of quotes from

362
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: people who said that actually the quality may not be

363
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 1: there compared to the male artists. I mean, here's one

364
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 1: quote from Marlo Prather, the curator of post war art

365
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: art at the Whitney. She writes, even when you pay

366
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 1: more attention to those careers that shouldn't have been lost

367
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: in the great shuff of art history, it doesn't necessarily

368
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: mean their estimation of the work increases. And here's another

369
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 1: one from Robert rosen Bloom, a professor of Modern European

370
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 1: art at New York University. He writes, every historical survey

371
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,239
Speaker 1: I've done has had a lot of women artists in it,

372
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: but none of them are great, the way Picasso is great,

373
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: the way says On is great, and that is true

374
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: of them jarity of men artists. So there's still this

375
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: question of what is greatness, who is defining it? And

376
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: just to uh, you know, satisfy a definition, do we

377
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: need to include female perspectives or are they not there yet?

378
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: I mean I can just say from our listeners. Our

379
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 1: listeners have sentis in some amazing photos and clips of

380
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 1: works they've done. You have a lot of artistic listeners

381
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: so well, I feel like the women artists are out there.

382
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 1: Why are they still not being represented despite the fact

383
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: that we've got Gorilla Girls and Lynda Knockland saying look

384
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: for them. Well, I do think so that you know

385
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: that we can throw out some names that are you know,

386
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: repeatedly circulated in the art world. I mentioned Cindy Sherman earlier.

387
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: There's Barbara Krueger, Louise Lawler, Um, Adrian Piper, myle Lynn, uh,

388
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: Mariko Mori. There are a lot of women who are

389
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: out there doing and if you look at all of

390
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: their work side by side, I mean it's such a

391
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: broad spectrum of not mediums, but also uh perspectives and design.

392
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: Um so so sure, I mean, there's plenty of stuff there.

393
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: There is there's genius out there, you know, and it

394
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: seems like they're admitting that there's genius out there, but

395
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: still refusing to put it on the same level of

396
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: male genius. And well, because a lot of these curities

397
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 1: will also admit like, yeah, it's still kind of an

398
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: old boys club some of these um museums and uh

399
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: museums and galleries. And so then that's the question. It's

400
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 1: maybe like, well, who who controls super strings? That's true too,

401
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: genius defined by you know, which wealthy patron likes you

402
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: the most, probably, But I mean that goes back to

403
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: other issues. We've talked about women in business, and it

404
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: just seems that for being such a progressive field, art

405
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: is very behind in terms of gender equality, in terms

406
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: of investing in women artists, and and you know, you

407
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: just you keep going back to do we still need

408
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: women in realist suits putting up posters? And I would

409
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: say the answers yes. For all the criticism that can

410
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: be lobbed against the Gorilla Girls for being negative and

411
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: not champion specific artists and being all about the Q

412
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: word quota, I mean, there does come this point where

413
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: you can name off you can just you just rattled

414
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: off a bunch of women artists who aren't in a

415
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: lot of museums. Yeah, and uh, they prompted us to

416
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: chat for like thirty minutes about all of this stuff.

417
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, do we need them absolutely, because if anything,

418
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: they're starting conversations, um, and they are you know, getting

419
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: getting us thinking about all these things. Because this was

420
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: this was a question that was raised in one of

421
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: the articles, and I think it's a good question to

422
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: to sort of end on. It's like, all right, listeners,

423
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: I want, you know, try to name your favorite um

424
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: female artists of the twentieth century and free to call

425
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: it is not allowed, you know, And now try to

426
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, rattle off or name five, give me five,

427
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: and now rattle off five male artists. Is going to

428
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: be a lot easier to fill out those, you know,

429
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: the five columns for for men. I was telling Christmas

430
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: before we came in here that my theory is that

431
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: if we update the teenage mutant Ninja turtles to be females,

432
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: then we could probably possibly expose a lot more people

433
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: to women artists. Because I know that I first heard

434
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: about Leonardo from the Ninja Turtles. I first heard about

435
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: Donna Tello from Ninja Turtles. I mean it was obviously

436
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: I learned you know about their artwork much later. But

437
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: I feel like if if there were little kids running

438
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: around emulating free to Collo, that you know, we could

439
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: really I mean, I'm just I'm just saying, if you're

440
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: a book publisher out there, coming because I've got some

441
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: I've got some children's books ideas for a female equipment

442
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: of the Ninja Turtles that it's going to expand the

443
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: art world. I mean, O'Keefe doesn't have quite the same

444
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: ring as like O'Keefe go and should excite them with

445
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: big flowers. This is great and sexual overtones. I cannot

446
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: wait to see your new animated project. Molly. Well, obviously,

447
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: Molly and I are not We're not art experts, and

448
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: we really are not that deeply engaged in our world.

449
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: And I can only draw stick figures and those three

450
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: D cube things. I don't know about you, Molly, maybe

451
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: you're more artistic than I am. So I would love

452
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: to hear from our artists out there, both male and female.

453
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: Let us know what's going on and let us know

454
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: who we should be. Um who we should call out.

455
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: I think it would be great to um to get

456
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: a get a blog post together and start tweeting some

457
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: up and coming female artists. That people should keep an

458
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: eye out for a virtual Sminty art museum exactly for

459
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: my Ninja Turtle idea. Help me out with that, so

460
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: shoot us an email. The addresses Mom Stuff, how stuff

461
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: works dot Com and Molly. I think we've got time

462
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: for an email, right quick? Okay, Well, I've got an

463
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: email here from Jing. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Uh.

464
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: And this is in response to our episode on Football Finding,

465
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: and Jean says, my great grandmother had her feet bound,

466
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: but unlike in former times, her feet were not broken.

467
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: I don't remember her feet being extra tiny, and she

468
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: didn't wear Lotus shoes. Of course, since I saw her

469
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: last when I was four, I can't remember how small

470
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: her foot was. My grandmother on the other side of

471
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: the family, was told to bind her feet by her father,

472
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: but her mother was very strict about it, so she

473
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: often took the bandages off herself. Her foot turned out

474
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: very normal, so in her case, her foot was only

475
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: bound to discourage growth. Since she had to run away

476
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: with her school to escape the bombs during the Japanese

477
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: invasion of China when she was barely a teenager. I

478
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: have to say that it was very lucky her foot

479
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: was not bound. Also, I don't think you mentioned that

480
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: footbinding was practiced almost exclusively among the han Han ethnicity

481
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: in China. During China's last dynasty, the King Dynasty, the

482
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: ruling class was Manchuriant, not Han, and the emperor forbid

483
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: girls from buying their feet. The Mongolians and the many

484
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: other minority minority ethnicities in China did not practice foot

485
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: bind me certain ethnicities that did practice footbinding often didn't

486
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: break the bones of the feet, only discourage growth and

487
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: made the foot narrower. So thank you so much for

488
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: the informative email, and as always if you'd like to

489
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: send us informative emails. So if you've got an emails,

490
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: send it our away It's Mom stuff at how stuff

491
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: works dot com. We would love for you to become

492
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: a fan of us on Facebook. You can also follow

493
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: us on Twitter, and then finally you can check out

494
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: our blog stuff Mom Never Told You and It's found

495
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com for more on this

496
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Because at how stuff works

497
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: dot Com. Want more how stuff works, check out our

498
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: blogs on the house. Stuff works dot Com home page

499
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

500
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: It's ready, are you