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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A moment of truth and a court of law. A

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Speaker 2: suspected serial killer jesse Lee Calhoun comes face to face

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Speaker 2: with multiple victims families in court as he pleads not

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Speaker 2: guilty to brutally murdering three women in Oregon and Washington.

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Speaker 2: And I strongly suspect there are other victims. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. A suspected serial killer, jesse Lee

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Speaker 2: Calhoun seemed without emotion as he comes face to face

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Speaker 2: in court with the victims' families. Calhoun, thirty nine, is

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Speaker 2: facing three counts of murder, three counts of abuse of

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Speaker 2: a corpse, and the horrific slayings of twenty four year

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Speaker 2: old Charity Lynn Perry, Bridget LeAnn Webster and Joanna speaks

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Speaker 2: and he pulled a coburger. His lawyer pleaded not guilty

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Speaker 2: for him on his behalf. When he Calhoun refused to

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Speaker 2: speak out loud in court. Oh please, how did the

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Speaker 2: whole thing unfold? I and many others have been screaming

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Speaker 2: from the get go there is a serial killer stalking Portland.

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Speaker 2: But police not only deny it, they come right out

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Speaker 2: and say point blank, we want to address all the

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Speaker 2: quote rumors that there's a serial killer, it's absolutely not true.

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Speaker 2: Now we find out what they said is what's not true.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of an outright lie. I had to put

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Speaker 2: that on the Portland PD. But it feels like a

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Speaker 2: kick in the teeth when someone in law enforcement intentionally

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Speaker 2: misleads the public. They stated that they they did not

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Speaker 2: want to scare Portland women. How about saving Portland women

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Speaker 2: from a serial killer? And the number one way to

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Speaker 2: avoid being a victim is having knowledge, knowledge that there

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Speaker 2: is a serial killer and this is his mo motors,

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Speaker 2: opera and method of operation. These are his victims. This

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Speaker 2: is what they had in common. What if anything, does

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Speaker 2: that have to do with me a woman walking down

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Speaker 2: the street, getting out of my car and going into

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Speaker 2: the department store in Portland. But no, they kept it

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Speaker 2: a secret. They knew it. But they not only no

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Speaker 2: comment that didn't happen, they outright denied it. That said, bottleshell,

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Speaker 2: there is a serial killer in Portland. Take listens to

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Speaker 2: our friends at ABC and KATU.

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Speaker 3: A major development in the investment destigation into the deaths

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Speaker 3: of several women in Oregon, just one month after police

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Speaker 3: suggested the mysterious deaths of six women were not connected.

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Speaker 3: Officials now say they believe at least four killings are connected.

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Speaker 3: The victims' bodies were found in wooded and rural areas

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Speaker 3: between February and May. Nine agencies took part in the investigation,

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Speaker 3: leading them to a person of interest and.

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Speaker 4: Sources to say a person of interest is already off

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Speaker 4: the streets.

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Speaker 2: And I'd like to point out that person of interest

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Speaker 2: who is quote off the streets, Jesse Lee Calhoun. He's

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Speaker 2: thirty eight years old. When they're saying he's off the streets,

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Speaker 2: that's because they've just snabbed him. He was behind bars

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Speaker 2: already for a long string of arrests. He is a

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Speaker 2: career criminal. He has attacked police officer and a K

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Speaker 2: nine in the past. He's committed all sorts of felonies.

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Speaker 2: But he got early release under the former governor because

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Speaker 2: she thought he was susceptible to COVID. Okay, he was

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Speaker 2: recently ordered picked up after there's clear links to him

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Speaker 2: and it's just got to be DNA. But that said,

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Speaker 2: he got early release, and I've got copious notes that

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Speaker 2: I've taken about the time he was released on the

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Speaker 2: streets July twenty twenty one. By June. About a year

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Speaker 2: and a half later, twenty twenty three, reports submerged in

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Speaker 2: The Oregonian that six young women's bodies have been found.

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Speaker 2: That was fast, He's out less than two years on

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Speaker 2: the street. Six women's bodies are found right now. Four

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Speaker 2: of these women are being linked. Waiting to hear about

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Speaker 2: the other two. Now, one may have been an unintentional overdose.

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Speaker 2: We're waiting to find out about that, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know that. And another thing aim to consider before I

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Speaker 2: get to my All Star panel is if this is

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Speaker 2: a serial killer's dream, it's a no police zone. Remember Portland,

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Speaker 2: stop police, get rid of police, make this this police

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Speaker 2: free zone. Well, you know what, here you go, six

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Speaker 2: dead bodies and a serial killer that said again, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. I want to go first

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Speaker 2: out of this All Star panel to Cheryl McCollum, founder

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Speaker 2: and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of

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Speaker 2: a hit new series Zone seven. You can find her

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Speaker 2: at coldcasecrimes dot org. Cheryl, can you believe this? How

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Speaker 2: long have you and I and many others I can't

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Speaker 2: take all the credit been saying there is a serial killer.

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Speaker 2: I don't care what police are saying, there's a serial killer.

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Speaker 5: It was pretty obvious to all of us. So again,

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Speaker 5: whatever decision they make and.

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Speaker 2: They think we're idiots.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, if they already identified the sky on

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Speaker 5: their own, and they knew he was already locked up,

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Speaker 5: maybe they just wanted to keep playing it because they

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Speaker 5: were interviewing people.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl, he was released. Oh yeah, that's how all the women,

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Speaker 2: well a lot of them got killed. And it'll be

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Speaker 2: a cold day in hub l that. I believe this

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Speaker 2: is his first rodeo. I mean, Karen Stark, you're the

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Speaker 2: renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan at Karenstark dot com.

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Speaker 2: That's Karen with the sea. There's no way these are

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Speaker 2: his first murtyrs. It's just not possible. And I want

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Speaker 2: to point out one more thing and my analysis, I

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Speaker 2: believe that the serial killer obviously used a car because

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Speaker 2: these women are dumped. One was behind a barn in

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Speaker 2: a rural area. One was down a riverside parkway out

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Speaker 2: in a remote area. They're found in wooded and remote areas.

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Speaker 2: He didn't drag them there on his back. Okay, now

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Speaker 2: let me tell you this detail, Karen's I understand that

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Speaker 2: he has told people. I haven't found any verification of

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Speaker 2: it yet, but he is a self proclaimed artist that

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Speaker 2: he paints individualized, unique art on cars. So there you

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Speaker 2: go that those cars, that any car that he has

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Speaker 2: used is full forensic evidence. But what do you say,

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Speaker 2: Karen start first, Rodeo, Yes.

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Speaker 6: No, no, I really I can't imagine because when you

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Speaker 6: are somebody who was a serial killer the way that

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Speaker 6: he is, and it's a woman after woman after women,

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Speaker 6: he had practiced on doing this, Nancy. I don't know

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Speaker 6: how he started or where he started, but there are

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Speaker 6: bodies somewhere that this man has definitely killed, and I'm

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Speaker 6: sure they're going to find other evidence.

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Speaker 2: Because that's just how serial killers work.

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Speaker 6: They don't all of a sudden most of the time

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Speaker 6: just kill someone and say yeah, I'm going to t

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Speaker 6: They practice, They practice until they really know what they're doing,

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Speaker 6: and then they keep going and it gets worse.

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Speaker 5: So it's a good thing they found him.

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Speaker 6: And by the way, I think a thousand people who

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Speaker 6: were released early when he.

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Speaker 2: Was Yeah, thanks, Governor Jackie. Was that Governor Brown? Governor Brown?

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Speaker 2: Now we've got ko tech In. She is the one

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Speaker 2: that signed the go get him put in behind bars order,

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Speaker 2: but it was Brown that released him as part of

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Speaker 2: a giant clean out the jail, get out of jail

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Speaker 2: free moment. Back to you, Cheryl McCollum, director of the

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Speaker 2: Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl, what can get to you?

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Speaker 2: There was a serial killer long before the Portland Police

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Speaker 2: finally told the truth.

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Speaker 7: Well, the dates you're talking about, February nineteenth to May seventh,

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Speaker 7: you've got four people in a small condensed area.

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Speaker 5: They all are similar in age from twenty two to

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Speaker 5: thirty one. They look kind of similar. Again, the area

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Speaker 5: that they were last seen is critical. So if they're

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Speaker 5: all in this downtown Portland area, a condensed area, and

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Speaker 5: then they're all dumped in a similar area, that tells

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Speaker 5: you right there you need to be looking at this

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Speaker 5: as a connection as links.

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Speaker 2: I want to go now to a net Newell with

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Speaker 2: k XL News and she's a host of speaking freely

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Speaker 2: with Annette Newle and thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Nancy. What finally nudged the Portland Police to admit

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Speaker 2: that there's a serial killer stalking women across the Portland area.

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Speaker 8: You know, the Portland Police actually have not admitted that yet.

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Speaker 8: The admission really came from the Moltnohmouth County District Attorney

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Speaker 8: because the pressure had finally been too great for them

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Speaker 8: to bear, because they have been getting Basically, we've known.

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Speaker 2: What's going on here.

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Speaker 8: It's pretty obvious that there are links between these women.

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Speaker 8: In fact, just this morning, I see in the Oregonian

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Speaker 8: that investigators have been searching a Riverview apartment where Jesse

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Speaker 8: Lee Calhoun, the suspect, live with a girlfriend after his

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Speaker 8: June sixth arrests, and that girlfriend confirmed that he had

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Speaker 8: ties to two of these women, Ashley Reel and Richet Walker.

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Speaker 8: So they all knew, we knew know. Some of these

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Speaker 8: women knew each other. Two of them were good friends

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Speaker 8: growing up as kids. They were friends, you know. So

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Speaker 8: we've known that there's obvious connections here, and I think

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Speaker 8: the pressure finally got so great that they had to

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Speaker 8: come clean and say yes.

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Speaker 2: In the last days of suspect a serial killer in court,

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Speaker 2: Remember I told you I suspect there are other victims.

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Speaker 2: Calhoun has been named a person of interest in the

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Speaker 2: deaths of Kristen Smith just twenty two and Ashley Ray

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Speaker 2: up twenty two. Their deaths remain under investigation, but the

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Speaker 2: connections are so strong. I feel it's got to be him.

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Speaker 2: Kristen's mother, Melissa said it was gut wrenching when she

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Speaker 2: saw Calhoun in the courtroom. She said, and I quote,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to look you in the face. And there's

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Speaker 2: a lot I'd like to say. We already feel broken,

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Speaker 2: we already feel empty. Many of the other victims' families

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Speaker 2: couldn't bring themselves to even look at the suspected killer.

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Speaker 2: How did Calhoun manage to kill three? And I believe

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Speaker 2: at least five women? Jared Farentino, homicide prosecutor. You can

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Speaker 2: find them on and Facebook at Jared Farantino. Jared, did

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Speaker 2: you hear what Annett Neil just said? It's always shocking

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Speaker 2: to me to find out a serial killer has like

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend at home and a Riverview apartment blending in

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Speaker 2: with the rest of us. You can't look at someone

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Speaker 2: and tell what's going on, what's lurking behind that facade.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at the guy arrested for the Long

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Speaker 2: Island serial killings. He has a wife and two children.

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Speaker 2: He's a respected architect in New York City. Kind of

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Speaker 2: reminds me a little bit of BTK the Dog Catcher.

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Speaker 2: A deacon at his church, wife children. He was killing

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Speaker 2: women left and right, dressing up in their clothes and

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Speaker 2: taking pictures. Okay, so how these people I can't say

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Speaker 2: that Brian Coburg are really blended in. Right, He's getting

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Speaker 2: his PhD there at Washington State University and he had

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Speaker 2: been up to all sorts of freaky shenanigans before he

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Speaker 2: gets charged with murder. But aside from him, so many

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Speaker 2: of these prolific killers blend in with everybody else.

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Speaker 9: Well, that's so true, Nancy, and you raise a good point.

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Speaker 9: We talk about bt K and Cooleberger and this latest

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Speaker 9: architect with the Gilo Beach murders.

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Speaker 2: Sheerman, Yes, Heewerman.

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Speaker 9: And the reality is Calhoun is a little different than

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Speaker 9: those individuals. Calhoun is a career criminal and a violent criminal.

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Speaker 9: This is a guy who choked a dog when the

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Speaker 9: SWAT team came to get him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I stop right there, Jarrett Farantino, I knew that

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Speaker 2: he attacked a cop and the K nine, I did

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Speaker 2: not know he tried to choke the dog.

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Speaker 9: That's what was reported when the when the police came

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Speaker 9: to get him. So the reality is this is someone

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Speaker 9: that wasn't hiding in plain sight, this is a violent

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Speaker 9: criminal who has access to five hundred rounds of ammunition

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Speaker 9: in one arrest. He is always runs when the police

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Speaker 9: come from him. He's jumped in the river.

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Speaker 2: He fights with the Oh yeah, I sawr He actually

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Speaker 2: jumped and that was it. The Willamette River. The Willamette River.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, you know, I thought I was Willamett. It's Willambit. Okay,

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Speaker 2: hold on just a moment, you know, let me just

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Speaker 2: analyze that for a moment, Jarrett Farantine. When a cop

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Speaker 2: pulls up behind me, I pull over, I turned the

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Speaker 2: car off, I let the window down, and I sit

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Speaker 2: there and wait for them to say license registration. This

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Speaker 2: guy jumped in a river. Really, it just goes.

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Speaker 9: To the wiring inside of his head. You know. That's

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Speaker 9: a fight or flight scenario. And this is my ninety

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Speaker 9: nine cent psychiatry degree. But the reality is some people react.

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Speaker 9: They're compliant, they're fearful. Others want to fight and run

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Speaker 9: and you just.

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Speaker 2: Never know because they are guilty.

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Speaker 9: Well, typically they're guilty or running from something else. This

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Speaker 9: guy is running from the bodies he has buried all

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Speaker 9: over the community. I'm sure.

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Speaker 2: Let's just say they're guilty of something. It may not

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Speaker 2: be running the stop sign, but I mean, really, Karen Stark,

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Speaker 2: as I used to tell jury's at many many times,

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Speaker 2: I would tell the story about how I would stop.

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Speaker 2: But when a cock comes up behind you, do you

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Speaker 2: take off at ninety mph and try to get away

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Speaker 2: or jump in a river? No, you don't, because you

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Speaker 2: haven't done anything wrong. When someone runs or jumps in

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Speaker 2: a river or tries to strangle a canine dog, I mean, yes,

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Speaker 2: they're guilty.

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Speaker 6: They're not just guilty. They have no fear of authority.

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Speaker 6: That's somebody who know I'll just turn around and fight. So, yes,

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Speaker 6: they're guilty, but he's going to fight back no matter what.

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Speaker 6: There's a reason that this guy was incarcerated. He tried

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Speaker 6: to kill the dog. How many people have the strength

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Speaker 6: to do that. So I hate to say this, but

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Speaker 6: just imagine what it was like for these girls, these women,

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Speaker 6: to have to deal with this guy. He's got incredible

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Speaker 6: strength and no fear whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Guys, we are talking about multiple women. Now did who

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Speaker 2: are they? What happened? Let's first talk about Kristin Smith.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friend Drew Marine at KPTV.

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Speaker 10: Melissa Smith says Kristin was last seen here near Malsule five.

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Speaker 10: She has a tattoo of a red butterfly on her

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Speaker 10: right hand. Each day that passes and Melissa and Hayley

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Speaker 10: Smith don't hear from twenty two year old Kristin Smith,

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Speaker 10: they get more concerned she's in danger.

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Speaker 2: And now I'll listen to our cut eleven KPTV.

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Speaker 11: The Portland Police Bureau says they responded to reports of

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Speaker 11: human remains found in a wooded area near southeast Deerdorf

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Speaker 11: Road and Flavelle Street on February nineteenth. Now authorities have

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Speaker 11: confirmed the remains belonged to Kristen.

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Speaker 2: I think of her every moment of every day, and her.

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Speaker 11: Family search has turned into one for answers what happened.

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Speaker 12: I know she didn't just suddenly die out there.

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Speaker 2: Somebody did something.

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Speaker 11: But they say closure would be finding out what happened

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Speaker 11: to Kristin.

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Speaker 2: You've got to wonder how all of these victims' families

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Speaker 2: are feeling after being told for so long there was

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Speaker 2: not a serial killer, and now the truth coming out.

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Speaker 2: And then, of course, in addition to Kristin, there's Joanna Speaks.

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Speaker 2: Take Us an hour cut nineteen our friends at crimeonline

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 13: Joanna Speaks is part of a big, blended family with

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Speaker 13: three biological siblings, four step siblings, three nieces, one nephew,

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Speaker 13: as well as three incredible children of her own One thirteen,

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Speaker 13: Braxton twelfth, and Melanie seven. In a family this big,

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Speaker 13: she was still able to stand out. Her stepsister Ariel

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Speaker 13: Hanby says, as a youngster, she was loud and vibrant.

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Speaker 13: Everything that she did was like go big or go

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Speaker 13: home kind of attitude. Her older sister, Robin Speake, pointed

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Speaker 13: out that she was a fighter, the wild one of

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Speaker 13: all of us. Joanna Speaks was a big kid, hilarious, sarcastic,

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Speaker 13: and super witty. She defines the term one of a kind.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think about Joanna Speaks. His family

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Speaker 2: standing by waiting to hear the latest on her debt.

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Speaker 2: As you just heard, she is a mom, leaving behind

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Speaker 2: children who will grow up without mom. So far, four

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Speaker 2: of the dead women have been connected, we believe to

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Speaker 2: a career criminal, jesse Lee Calhoun. And of course there's more.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut twenty three thoughts twelve.

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Speaker 14: Just before six pm, Richfield Police and Clark Howltzfire responded

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Speaker 14: to this abindon property and found Speaks dead.

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Speaker 3: Near the barn.

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Speaker 14: A medical examination ruled it a murderer, and Clark County

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Speaker 14: Sheriff's believe she was killed elsewhere then moved to this location.

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Speaker 14: But her killer has not been found.

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Speaker 15: And there is no way that she would have gone

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Speaker 15: down without a fight. So whoever did do this likely

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Speaker 15: had injuries or something like that personally as well from

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Speaker 15: her fighting back.

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Speaker 2: How do you continue on? I don't know.

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Speaker 16: Nothing is off the table as to what we're thinking

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Speaker 16: could have happened.

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Speaker 14: The family of Joanna Speaks is left shock and speechless

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Speaker 14: after getting a phone call that their thirty two year

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Speaker 14: old sister from Oregon City was found near an abandoned

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Speaker 14: barn in Ridgefield, Washington.

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Speaker 2: And of course there's a Bridget Take a listener. Forensic

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Speaker 2: KOI in.

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Speaker 17: The Pope County Sheriff's Office investigating after a Milwaukee woman's

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Speaker 17: body was found abandoned in their jurisdiction. A deputy say

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Speaker 17: Bridget Webster's body was found on Sunday near Mill Creek

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Speaker 17: in northwest Polk County. They say Webster was last seen

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Speaker 17: alive in the Portland metro area, the Sheriff's office asking

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Speaker 17: anyone who knew her or has information about her death

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Speaker 17: to call detectives.

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Speaker 2: So far, we're not getting a clear cause of death

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Speaker 2: on all of the women. Those are several of the

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Speaker 2: women that have been found their bodies littering the Portland area.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories, with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Charged with three murderers and suspected in at least two

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Speaker 2: more brutal murders. The mother of one of the other women,

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Speaker 2: Melissa Smith, also stated, I'm already broken, I'm already falling,

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Speaker 2: but I've got to keep going. Oh this mom just

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Speaker 2: ripped in half. Came to court wearing a black T

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Speaker 2: shirt with pink letters that stay justice for Kristen Smith.

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Speaker 2: This mother looked Calhoun directly in the face. How did

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Speaker 2: all of these women end up dead at the hands

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Speaker 2: of one man? Annette and Newell joining us k excel.

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Speaker 2: Why are they withholding the cod cause of death?

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Speaker 16: Now?

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Speaker 2: I know one of the victims was bludgeoned, but what

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Speaker 2: about the others?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, one of the family members of the one who

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Speaker 8: was bludgeoned has been in communication with me and she

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Speaker 8: said that she believed that their bodies were further along

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Speaker 8: decomposed more than more than her sisters was, so that

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Speaker 8: made it more difficult to identify a cause of death.

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Speaker 8: And she's been calling for the FBI to get involved

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Speaker 8: because of that, because they've been they need more really

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Speaker 8: good crime scene investigators with the tools to really investigate this.

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Speaker 8: And in fact, she just came up with a list

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Speaker 8: of She says there are one hundred and fifty six

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Speaker 8: missing women and female children in Oregon since January of

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Speaker 8: this year, and she's even printed out a list of

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Speaker 8: who's missing by age from the state's website. So to me,

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Speaker 8: that's just a phenomenal number. But she's really gone after this.

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Speaker 8: And you spoke to her too. Her name is Ariel.

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Speaker 8: You talked to her before when you had her on

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Speaker 8: about Joanna speaks on your show. Joanna was the only

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Speaker 8: one of the six women who've been found where they

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Speaker 8: definitively said yes, this woman was killed and the cause

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Speaker 8: was murdered, murdered by you know, in this case, blunt

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Speaker 8: worst trauma. The other ones, they're saying that they don't

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Speaker 8: have a cause of death, at least not yet.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting joining me right now, Doctor Todd M. Barr

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Speaker 2: Board certified anatomic clinical forensic pathologist, featured in Thin Places

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Speaker 2: Essays from in Between Doctor Barr, thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us. It would seem to me that even if

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Speaker 2: a body had been lying out behind a barn or

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Speaker 2: down a ravine for some period of time, you would

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Speaker 2: still be able to tell if that body, if that

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Speaker 2: victim had been bludgeoned dead, because the skeleton it's self

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Speaker 2: is not really conducive to deteriorating out the elements the

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Speaker 2: way soft tissue is.

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Speaker 16: That's correct. If there are you know, sometimes people can

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Speaker 16: obtain fractures to their skulls from various means. But in

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Speaker 16: this kind of a situation, if a body is found

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Speaker 16: and there's evidence of hemorrhage of blood on the brain,

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Speaker 16: even even with the decomposing body, we can still tell

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Speaker 16: if there's hemorrhage within the calvarium within the head, and

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Speaker 16: whether or not there are blunt force trauma applied with

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Speaker 16: force to.

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Speaker 9: Any part of the body.

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Speaker 16: Yeah, there's there are certain things that we look for.

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Speaker 16: I had a I had a case that I worked

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Speaker 16: on for a serial killing and his ritualistic maneuvers were

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Speaker 16: to hub tie these women after manually asphixiating them, So

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Speaker 16: there are certain things that you can find even in

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Speaker 16: decomposed bodies. In those bodies that I was just speaking

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Speaker 16: of were also decomposed, and we were able to collect

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Speaker 16: quite a bit of information.

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Speaker 2: Guys. There is also an unidentified woman. Will she be

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Speaker 2: connected to Calhoun as well? Take a listen to our

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Speaker 2: cut b from KPTV.

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Speaker 18: An unidentified woman between twenty five and forty years old

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Speaker 18: was found dead near I to A five in southeast

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Speaker 18: Flavelle Street. The Moltnoman County Medical Examiner's Office is asking

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Speaker 18: for the public's help identifying her and provided this sketch.

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Speaker 18: They say she was possibly Native American, with medium length

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Speaker 18: black hair and about five foot one. At the time,

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Speaker 18: they say she was wearing a longsleeve green T shirt,

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Speaker 18: a black and white jacket, and black and white Adidas cleats.

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Speaker 18: She also had two tattoos, a black music note with

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Speaker 18: the letter V on her chest and the Buddha.

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Speaker 1: On her back.

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Speaker 2: Back to Cheryl McCollum joining us a founder and director

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Speaker 2: of the Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her

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Speaker 2: at coldcasecrimes dot org. Cheryl writs you the most about

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Speaker 2: the way the women's bodies were found and what do

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Speaker 2: you interpret from.

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Speaker 5: That, Nasie, You and I both know that the cut

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Speaker 5: the bluff. They know thanks the street talks. I believe

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Speaker 5: that there's some witnesses here that know this perpetrator, perhaps

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Speaker 5: saw him with some of the victims, whether they knew

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Speaker 5: the victims or not. But I think law enforcement god

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Speaker 5: on his radar because of a witness. I think when

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Speaker 5: you look at the bodies again, where they were taken

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Speaker 5: from and where they were disposed of, these were not

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Speaker 5: people that had a drug overdose. You're not going to

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Speaker 5: take drugs on fourteenth Street and then walk four miles

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Speaker 5: and drop dead on the side of the road of

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Speaker 5: a drug overdose. That's not how it happened. They were

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Speaker 5: transported and I think that's very clear when you look

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Speaker 5: at the distances and you look at again where these

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Speaker 5: started and where they ended.

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Speaker 2: There's another victim, Ashley Real take lis to hour cut

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Speaker 2: three KGW.

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Speaker 12: These woods off Southeast Judd Road in rural Clockamus County

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Speaker 12: is where deputies discovered the remains of Ashley Reel. The

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Speaker 12: twenty two year old was last seen in late March

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Speaker 12: at a fast food restaurant and transit center in East Portland.

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Speaker 12: She turned up dead in that heavily wooded area.

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Speaker 2: Kristin Smith, age twenty two, Charity Perry, Ah twenty four,

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Speaker 2: Bridget Webster aged thirty one, Ashley Real age twenty two,

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Speaker 2: Joanna Speaks age thirty two, and an unidentified female as

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Speaker 2: young as twenty five. To doctor Todd m bar how

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Speaker 2: can you tell the age of someone that is unidentified?

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Speaker 2: Once they're identified, you can pull their driver's license or

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Speaker 2: get their birth certificate and get the age. What about

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00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: an unidentified female? How do you get the age on that?

435
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 16: It's difficult depending on state of decomposition, if if a

436
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 16: portion of the body of skeletonized, or if it isn't.

437
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 16: We can always do a CP examination or radiological examination

438
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 16: to look at the formation of the bones. We can

439
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 16: look at the televis, We can look at various structures

440
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 16: of the body that can indicate, like futures in the head,

441
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 16: whether or not they've used. There are certain diagnostic craseria

442
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 16: that we can use to sort of give an estimated age.

443
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 16: In fact, we use a lot of forensic anthropology in

444
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 16: cases that are unidentified and skeletonized, and they've been very

445
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 16: very helpful and successful with rendering drawings of what these

446
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 16: people may have looked like alive, and combined with the

447
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 16: findings of the epic anthropological examination, we can give it

448
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 16: a range of ages. We don't there's no magic wand

449
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 16: that you can see, Oh, this one is specifically twenty

450
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 16: five years old, but we would say this is a

451
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 16: light woman between the ages of twenty five and thirty sage.

452
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 16: Look into that effect.

453
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: How what is and how does a forensic anthropologist help you?

454
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 5: Well?

455
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 16: Forensic anthropologists are well versed in the structure of the

456
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 16: human body with bones, and they can and when someone

457
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 16: is skeletonized and you can't even tell if the person

458
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 16: is male or female, then they can look at various

459
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 16: structures of the bones that are more fitting. And they

460
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 16: can actually determine race many times as well, because there

461
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 16: are differences between Caucasian features and other races that you

462
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 16: can see differences in.

463
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In the Last Days.

464
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: Inspect, a serial killer appears in court, coming face to

465
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: face with the victims' families as he pleads not guilty

466
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: horrific crimes. How did one man manage to wreck so

467
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: many lives? How closely together the bodies were found? Is

468
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: for not being told the ceod cause of death on

469
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: these women. We know one was bludgeoned that certainly wasn't

470
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: an accident or suicide. Then she was dumped in a

471
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: remote area and at Knewell. How closely together were the

472
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: women's bodies found, Yeah, I think in one case it

473
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: was like less than three miles from each other, and

474
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: all within you know, certainly a seventy mile radius in

475
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: the greater Portland metro area.

476
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 8: They were found in different counties, which is interesting too.

477
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 8: So that's why we have Clacamus County Sheriff's office investigating one,

478
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 8: Poul County another, Moltnomah County another, and then the Portland

479
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 8: Police Bureau on the fourth one. So all four of

480
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 8: the women who are connected to that one person of

481
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 8: interest were found in different counties under different sheriffs jurisdictions.

482
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: It looks like he just got out of a fight

483
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 2: and he looks mean as h double ll. Let me

484
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: tell you what I agree with both of them. I

485
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: want to meet him in a dark alley unless I

486
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: had a bullet, right.

487
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 5: But this also goes to why the cause of death

488
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 5: may be undetermined if this was a drug overdose, because

489
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 5: he's added sentinel to something or he's got some street

490
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 5: level myth. It's not as pure as it should be.

491
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 5: Then somebody that might have used this drug before could

492
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 5: in fact overdose, but it could be deliberate.

493
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a minute, boy, can I follow

494
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: through your line of thinking to its logical conclusion? Are

495
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: you actually saying that some of these women died of

496
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: an OD and then he carted their bodies away? Okay,

497
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: that didn't happen. He murdered them. He did not inject

498
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: them with bad drugs.

499
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 5: Absolutely he did.

500
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: Well, we don't know yet, of course, we don't know yet.

501
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: But Inette Neil, I recognize your voice. You want to

502
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: tell me these women odd? And then he dragged them

503
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: on his tricycle eight miles away and don't their bodies? No,

504
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: they did not die of him oding them. And if

505
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: they had, odd, he would have left them laying right

506
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: where they are. And one of the Portland Tints said

507
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: he's full of drug addicts and nobody's helping Nancy Karen.

508
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 6: Fact that he bludgeoned one of them would do well,

509
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 6: no weight, that's that person is not connected yet?

510
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: Are you talking about Joanna speaks?

511
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 8: Johanna speaks, the one that we know is bludgeoned.

512
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I still say these women, I mean, it's

513
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: not logical to think that he gave them bad drugs

514
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 2: and they o deed and so then he drags their

515
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: bodies away. That's no. And he's connected for a reason.

516
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: There's got to be some kind of dNaM o, something

517
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: more than he knewed two of them in high school.

518
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

519
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 6: I want to add Nancy that he also I can't

520
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 6: imagine someone who's the serial killer would want to just

521
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 6: drug somebody.

522
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 5: There's no fun in that for him.

523
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 6: And believe me, he had a good time killing each woman,

524
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 6: so that would be way too easy.

525
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: Okay, Cheryl, what were you saying now that we have

526
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: completely destroyed your theory of he intentionally drugged them? I

527
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: don't even I can't believe he even said that. Are

528
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: you having disorted?

529
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 5: Let me just be clear.

530
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: They knew this guy since high school?

531
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: How long has he been a piece of crap? The

532
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 5: whole time? He was a piece of crap in high school? Yeah,

533
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 5: so why are they connecting with him now? Because there's

534
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 5: a reason, and I'm saying him having drugs is a

535
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 5: plausible reason they got together with him. What happened to

536
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 5: after that is something different. So if he gave them

537
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 5: pills that he knew was laced with sentinel at another

538
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 5: location to do what he wanted to do, they couldn't

539
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 5: fight back, wait.

540
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: To do what he wanted to Were you talking about

541
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: raping them or killing them either?

542
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 16: Or we don't.

543
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 5: We don't know. We don't know the information yet.

544
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: I guarantee you he did not od them and sit

545
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: back and watch him die. I agree with Karen Start.

546
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 5: I guarantee you drugs is a connection.

547
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Yes, I'm with you on that. He may have

548
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: known them, Okay, I'll go out on a limb he

549
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: did know them through drugs, or they're hanging out in

550
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: the same area where drugs are sold. But there's no

551
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: way a serial killer od somebody and sits there and

552
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: watches them die. That's not going to be their cod

553
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: cause of death. Mate. They may have drugs in their system,

554
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: but that's not going to be how he killed them.

555
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: I mean, Farantino, for Pete's sake, throw me a life

556
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: raft here.

557
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 9: Well, it's typically this guy's getting his kicks by probably bludgeoning.

558
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 9: Looking at his background, he has a violent background, so

559
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 9: I wouldn't make the lead.

560
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: He's triangled K nine Peo, Paul. What's he going to

561
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: do with these poor women?

562
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 6: Nancy? He wants to see the life go out of them.

563
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 6: You know, that's what he's about.

564
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: Unless he's high on meth at the time. Mini's out

565
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: of his mind, kicking, punching, strangling, binding, totally out of

566
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: his goard. Guy speaking of Jesse Calhoun, now a POI

567
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: in the case. Take a listening our cut forty four,

568
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: our friendsic Katu.

569
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 19: The person of interest is thirty eight year old Jesse

570
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 19: Lee Calhoun. He's currently booked in the Snake River Correctional Institution.

571
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 19: The molt Nooma County Sheriff's Office has described Calhoun as

572
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 19: a quote prolific thief and career criminal. He was serving

573
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 19: as saints for burglary when granted clemency by former Oregon

574
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 19: Governor Kate Brown in twenty twenty one. This was for

575
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 19: fighting the twenty twenty wildfires. The clemency shaved about twelve

576
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 19: months off his prison sentence. That sentence was set to

577
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 19: end July twenty twenty two.

578
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 2: And more from our friends at kat you this is

579
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: Debornapp in our cut forty five.

580
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 4: US Marshalls were asked to assist the multi MC County

581
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 4: Sheriff's office in apprehending Calhoun on June sixth, that was successful.

582
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 4: Oregon Governor Tina Cotex office says she revoked the commutation

583
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 4: for Calhoun July third, at the request of the MALTONOMC

584
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 4: County DA's office, and who was readmitted to the state

585
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 4: on July sixth. We reached out to former Governor Brown

586
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 4: for a response on this. She replied with a statement saying, quote,

587
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 4: I'm absolutely horrified for the victims, their families, and all

588
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 4: of those who've experienced these losses.

589
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: Wow. See how she dodged the fact that she's the

590
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: one that let this guy out. And then about a

591
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: year and a half or so, six day bodies emerged.

592
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: Now four of these are being we've been told connected

593
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: to Calhoun, and they are Kristen Smith, Charity Lynn Perry,

594
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: Bridget Leanne Ramsey Webster, and Ashley Real. We don't know

595
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 2: about the other two yet. Now, we were told that

596
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 2: these women have similar appearances, that they have similar hangouts,

597
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: similar characteristics, that's what we're being told. Are they the

598
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: same places that Calhoun hung out? We are looking now

599
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: at the possibility that his vehicle was used to transport

600
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: these women. We're trying to find out if DNA deoxuribo

601
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: nucleic acid is linking him to the women. We're trying

602
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: to determine are they last seen in the same area,

603
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: and we think that they are if a vehicle was used,

604
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 2: can we in any way get a route, even a

605
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 2: partial route, so traffic cams can be accessed. There are

606
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: similar disposal methods in all of the murders for women

607
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: found dead in Oregon in less than three months. At first,

608
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: authorities insisted it was not a serial killer's work, but

609
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: they were so wrong, and I predict there are many more.

610
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: If you'll remember, Calhoun, six foot four inches, has a

611
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: history of resisting arrest and he actually jumped into the

612
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: Willamette River in Milwaukee and tried to escape police. He

613
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: already has a fifty month sentence for assaulting a cop

614
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: and trying to strangle a police dog, burglary, and felony

615
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: use of a vehicle. What a horrible day in court

616
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: for these victims' families. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy

617
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: Grace signing off goodbye friend,