WEBVTT - Part Five: A Complete History of the Illuminati 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:07.200 What's Elon my moskks? This is Behind the Bastards, the 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.200 podcast that I'm pretty sure Elon Musk is listening to, 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.160 because within minutes, well like an hour of us starting 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.480 to record the last two parts of our series on 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:21.240 the Illuminati, he posted a very boomer Illuminati meme um 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.800 extremely funny. The timing was incredible. There's no other explanation 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.160 but that we have influenced his mind on a deep 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.960 and possibly a cult level. M You know, I think 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.400 what's probably to blame for this is last night I 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.360 ate on a huge quantity of room temperature shrimp covered 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.440 in thousand island dressing, and then I vomited on the 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.320 hood of an old tesla. This was this was my 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.880 emdomancy that I was that I was practicing, and I 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.720 believe it has allowed me to infect Elon's mind with 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.360 a why are you like this? Why did you? Why 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.320 did you have to like describe the shrimp? Why? Why? 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.720 Because otherwise if people don't smell the shrimp, they're not 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.560 going to believe the rest of the story. Sophie, Alright, 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:16.600 I didn't lie at people. You need details gross anyways 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.880 are here. Oh I'll add that anecdote to my growing 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:25.920 grimoire of a vomit related I thought you were going 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:27.760 to say, you're adding it to the list of things 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.600 that you tell your therapist about work. But you know, 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.559 actually a lot of crossover between my grimoire and things 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.119 I tell my therapist, you know, using vomit magic, one 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.160 time I was able to turn a Ukrainian couple's wedding 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.320 dinner into a bunch of vomit on a Ukrainian couple. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.480 What what an amazing feet of alchemy that that that 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.320 transmutation is just simply mind blowing. I use it as 0:01:54.360 --> 0:02:00.480 a spell to be slightly less drunk. See, limitless power 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:06.960 is available when you embrace the sacred truths of a midamancy. Um, 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.040 good times actually would be a pretty fun class to 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.200 make in like a in like a Pathfinder type setting. Um, 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.000 you could do a lot of fun with this. You'd 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.119 just be the human fly and that's like how you 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:25.160 attack and devour. That that's kind of based actually, like yeah, 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.840 digesting your opponents as you hit them with a sword 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.360 or something. Yeah, very cool is listening to this podcast 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:37.240 to hear about You know what else is cool? The Illuminati. 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.200 The Illuminati was mid but the guy that we're going 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.800 to start our episode today talking about Robert Anton Wilson 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.000 was pretty dope. Now we're talking mostly about Kerry Thornley 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.560 in this series for good reason. Number One, I think 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.880 he and Greg Hill were the I mean, they certainly 0:02:54.880 --> 0:03:00.519 were the initial primary drivers behind Discordianism. M Carrie is also, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:02.960 as we'll get to, the guy who kind of makes 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.400 the most sense to cover in detailment behind the bastards. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:11.120 But my entry into like being interested in in the 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.720 not just like conspiracy culture in America, particularly as it 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.960 existed in the eighties and nineties, but into the Discordians, 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:20.520 into all of this stuff was through the work of 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.600 a guy named Robert Anton Wilson and Margaret are you 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.799 are you that familiar with Bob Wilson stuff? Okay, so 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:28.799 here's where I lose all of my credit. I am 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.040 very aware of the Illuminatus trilogy, and I have not 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.720 read it. Yeah, we'll be talking about the Illuminatus Trilogy 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.280 a little later. Essays quite relevant. Yeah, he's written a 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.680 lot of essays. He's if you really want a sense 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.960 for the guy, he made a documentary right before he 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.400 died called Maybe Logic that is available for free on 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.760 YouTube and whatever. It's the first thing I watched the 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.080 first time I ever took hallucinogens. So he had a 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.080 big impact on me. And he's a legitimately a really 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.760 interesting guy kind of He comes out of Flat Brooklyn 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.080 and he grew up as a little kid and what 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.520 he called like a New York's Irish Catholic ghetto. Um, 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.720 he did not have a lot of our so he 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.680 spent He's yeah. Garrettson Beach is the actual neighborhood that 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.560 he grew up in, which is kind of like out 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.280 in the middle of nowhere, so there's not a lot 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.320 of money. He is abused pretty profoundly by the nuns 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.240 who run his school. As a kid, he is like 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.440 beaten and mentally like tormented by these these nuns. And 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.480 he also has two bouts of polio as a little 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.960 kid that he survives. He has. This guy, of all 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.080 the people were talking about, Bob Wilson is the most 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.800 mentally healthy and also has like the roughest life. He 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:46.960 has a very hard life. Um, and uh, yeah, it's interesting. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.400 One of the things that is kind of a key 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.000 moment in this guy's life is that the thing that 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.719 saves his life from polio is a treatment called the 0:04:54.760 --> 0:05:00.120 Sister Kenney method, which is like alternative medicine today and 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.920 was kind of at the time in the thirties considered 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:07.159 like quackery. Um. And I'm not competent to like weigh 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.240 in on this, but he credits the Sister Kenny method 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.240 with saving him from his polio and the fact that 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.400 like this thing that people called quack medicine is what 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:18.400 saved him as a child is going to have a 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.240 really big influence on just sort of the the degree 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:26.520 of weight that he gives authority. I did not know that, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.520 but that makes so much sense for the rest of 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.240 his life. Is so much about like how much value 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.320 we put into what we believe, and how much what 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.400 we believe kind of creates the reality around us. And 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.520 that is such an interesting things like I'm sure, I'm 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.640 sure Bob Wilson that later on is like talking about 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.760 like the placebo effect and all that kind of stuff 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.039 as as that comes up like in like chaos magic 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.359 a lot um and and he was a member of 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.840 the biggest chaos magic order. But that's just that's such 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.000 an interesting story. And I was unaware that he dealt 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.400 with polio that it was it was kind of quote 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:06.320 using this like a crank method. What's the methods I'm 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.039 imagining you go into this like convent and sister Kearny, 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:16.159 Kearny whatever. Kenny. Yeah, Kenny just hits you with a cane. Yeah, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.320 I mean it's it's it's basically like a bunch of 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:23.240 hot compresses and like kind of passive movement, some of 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.440 which seems like it's it's sort of similar to like 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.159 massages um to reduce like some of the spasms that 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:34.160 are caused by polio um and yeah, it's uh, it's 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.680 it's interesting. Again, I'm not like a uh like an 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.760 expert on any of this, but it does seem She's 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.960 pretty well regarded within like physical therapy and consider to 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.039 be something of a pioneer in the field. So I 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.400 think it's one of those situations where he receives this 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.880 treatment that people call bullshit as a kid and it 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.440 helps him, and later on she's kind of to at 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.880 least some extent vindicated um and yeah, so this is 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.880 a big impact on Bob. The other than that has 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.040 a big impact on Bob is that just like three 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.919 years after he or a couple of years after his 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:06.560 like while he's sort of in the middle of this 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.719 polio shit, the War of the Worlds comes on the 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.560 radio and so Orson Wells is a huge influence on 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.480 this guy. As a young adult, he starts working at Playboy, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.960 and he hooks up and gets married to a woman 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.240 named Arlen, and they are both in addition to being 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.320 because we're talking about these guys kind of in their 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.400 like intellectual weirdo prankster thing, he and Arlen are both 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:35.760 also very committed physical activists. They are both involved with 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.320 the Black Panthers. So these are not again, these are 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.200 not just people who like talk about shit like they're 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.480 taking on real risk. And in fact, at one point 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.720 while he's at Playboy, one of the editors there, an 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.840 executive comes up to him and says that, like tells 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.200 him his name has been added to the Chicago PDS 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.280 Red Squad or sorry, they're in Chicago, not LA and 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.240 which is like a list of radicals that the authorities 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.080 had under surveillance, and the Red Squad existed, we don't 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.360 actually know if Bob was on it or not. And 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.000 basically this guy tells Bob like, it's because they think 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.160 you're a gun runner for the Black Panthers, and Bob 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:12.520 is like, well, no, we're just part of the free 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.480 breakfast program. Especially right now, there's a non zero chance 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:23.640 Bob Wilson ran guns. That's not an impossibility. I'm not 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:29.160 gonna say that's one hundred percent, no full support. Yeah, 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.079 and he's he also again for kind of to talk 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.160 about like how rough this guy's life is. He has 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.520 several kids with Arlen. His youngest daughter, when she is fifteen, 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:44.280 is beaten to death in a robbery gone back, and 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.880 she becomes the first person, one of the very first 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.720 people in the world and the first person from at 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.640 least in the Bay Area to have her brain put 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:58.840 in a in cryogenic whatever stasis. That's the thing Bob 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.120 Wilson is into very early on. That is normally I 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.440 have very little sympathy as a general rule for the 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:10.439 life extension people, but I obviously can't blame a grieving 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.520 father for doing something like that, Like that's a perfectly 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.679 understandable series of actions, especially in the seventies. Yeah, that's 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.559 different than that. I want to be an immortal major. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:26.760 Yeah exactly, Yeah exactly. Hey, hey, come on, So, while 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.679 Thornley and Hill kind of provided the initial impetus behind Discordianism. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.559 Bob Wilson becomes one of the chief drivers, and he 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.559 probably is the most influential of them because he is 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.160 he is still to this day probably like one of 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.720 the number one voices out of the psychedelic movement and 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.760 the counterculture movement in the late sixties and seventies. Bob 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.520 Wilson wrote a bit about this in the late seventies 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.439 in a book he put out called Cosmic Trigger. It's 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.679 actually a series of books, and this is him kind 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.280 of describing the changes that occur in the American psyche 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.400 during the time that the Discordians are starting out their activism. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.760 When John Fitzgerald Kennedy was blown apart by Oswald and 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.840 or persons unknown, something died in the American psyche. As 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.680 Jules Feffer, among others, has noticed, Kennedy was not a 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.720 universally beloved president, of course, nobody ever has been, not 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.600 even Washington. But he was young or youngish, handsome, cultured, brave. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.440 Everybody knows the pt one on nine story and via Rile. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.040 There was a commotion of primitive terrors loosed upon the 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.840 national psyche by the Daily Plaza Bullets, Camelot died, the 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.839 divine king had been sacrificed. We were caught suddenly in 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.320 the middle of a Fraser Freud reenactment of archetypal anthropological ritual. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:38.240 The national psyche veered dizzily towards chapel perillus. Now, chapel 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.000 perillus is a term y'ell are familiar with. No, I 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.760 have no idea. It's a psychological term. I know, you 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.520 know the scars we've talked about this body. This is 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.040 a core part of my personal psychology. Yes. In researching 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.079 occult conspiracies, one eventually faces a crossroad of mythic proportions 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.600 called chapel perillus. In the trade, you come out the 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.679 other side either a stone paranoid or an agnostic. There 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.199 is no third way. I came out an agnostic, and 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.720 that's I still think is one of the more useful, 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:13.440 especially in the era of the Internet. UM, because a 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.319 big thing for and all of the early Discordians break 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.559 in different ways. They all react differently to chapel perilous. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.800 And actually, one thing I'll quibbo with Wilson here is 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.080 I think there is a third way to react to this, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.440 and we'll talk about that later. Um. But I think 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.600 Wilson's attitude is going to be because he is he 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.720 is a pan agnostic. Pan Agnosticism is kind of like 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.040 the ideology that guides him the rest of his life 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.800 in increasing ways. Um. And that's kind of if you 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.320 listen to like best practices from any of these like 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.360 people who work for traditional journalist outfits in disinfo, Like 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.640 they don't phrase it in as artful or attractive a 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.120 way as Bob Wilson says. But that's what everybody's trying 0:11:54.120 --> 0:12:01.160 to urge people towards, right, not taking anything as gospel 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.599 or perfect truth, not getting it's not allowing one of 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.240 the things Wilson would talk about as the concept of 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.040 a reality tunnel. Right. And so when you start to 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.920 believe things about the world that kind of that changes 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.880 how you perceive the world. It changes effectively the world 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.480 that you live in. And you're going to like continue 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.040 to make more choices that help you bore deeper into 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.520 that reality tunnel which fears you away from everybody else. Right, 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.400 We've got with qan On is a huge chunk of 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.120 people who have bored a reality tunnel so deep outside 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.400 of kind of the consensus reality that a lot of 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.840 most of the other people live in that they can't 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:40.600 be reached. In a lot of cases, this is what 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.040 happens in those like somebody will like murder their family 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.800 or whatever, or set off a bomb because they've they've 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.520 fallen so deep down this tunnel. And one of the 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.840 things Wilson is he doesn't want people to close their minds, 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.160 but he doesn't want anyone to get like to bury 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.920 themselves too deep in a tunnel that leads them, you know, 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:00.599 that they can't get out from right Like that was 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.160 kind of the benefit of pan agnosticism. I mean, I 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.360 think another release instinct way is thinking about it is 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.400 it's the same name as his documentary maybe logic, as 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.839 in like maybe this thing is the thing, like a 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.720 big He has these speeches where he's tried he tries 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.960 to explain why we should remove the word is from 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.440 the English vocabulary because we say this thing is this thing. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.720 You are now collapsing reality down into this succinct statement 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.880 that is probably going to cause problems when you create 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.720 that like um, when when you create that sense of 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.920 equalness um. So think of everything as like maybe this 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.120 is the thing, or maybe this is the thing like 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.640 it try to if you are a few times there. Yeah, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.720 I mean you like using the word because because of 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.319 like linguistics, but thinking thinking of the world in that 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.000 maybe framework, yeah, is just a it's a safer way 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.720 to approach a lot of these things that try to 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.959 like mess with your psyche. Okay, it makes for worse writing. 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.880 Metaphors or general can seen as stronger than similes. So true, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.560 that's true, And Bob Wilson will be at war most 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.600 of his life with the fact that he recognizes playing 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.160 with this stuff can be dangerous and also it's very 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.120 fun to do. But as a young man writing for Playboy, 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.480 he is not He's not quite as mature as he 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.640 will later be. And so, starting from the position of 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.120 these beliefs in kind of the value of pan agnosticism, 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.920 he decides that his goal should be to bring as 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.200 many people as possible to chapel perilous right. That is, 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.600 in Wilson's eyes, the goal of Operation mind Fuck is 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.520 to put stuff out here that causes as many people 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.200 as possible to hit this decision point where they either 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.960 become a stone paranoid or they kind of back away 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.120 and gain this ability to look at things from a 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.240 more objective standpoint, and a big part of like the 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.040 basic goal here is in order to stop people from 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.040 kind of going too far in these particularly the John 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.280 Birch directions. He wants to create art that causes people 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.000 to confront the fact that reality is not fixed and 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.120 emerge from that experience questioning their old assumptions. You know, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.000 That's what Wilson sees as the actual like moral good 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:14.080 behind Operation mind fuck. So Wilson and his editor fellow 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.280 editors Shay, they start sitting down with Thornley and the 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.920 other Discordians, and it's from these conversations that they actually 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.280 come up with a name for Operation Mindful, because this 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.200 is just something they're doing for a couple of years, right, 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.920 They're sending off these letters, they're putting out these different 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.760 conspiracy theories in different magazines, but they haven't really named 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.440 it yet. And I'm I'm gonna read a quote from 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.360 The New Yorker about how that goes down through every 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.080 means available. Wilson explained in a memo laying out the plan, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.480 the mind Fuckers intended to attribute all national calamities, assassinations, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.600 or conspiracies to the Illuminati and other hidden hands. So 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.360 they planted stories about the Illuminati and the underground press. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.200 They slipped mysterious classified ads into the libertarian journal Innovator 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.920 and the new left newspaper Roger Spark. They cooked up 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.000 a letter about the Illuminati that Wilson then ran in 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.800 the Playboy Advisor. When a New Orleans jury refused to 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.120 convict one of the men who the conspiracy hunting District 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.680 Attorney Jim Garrison blamed for the JFK killing, Garrison's booster 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.400 Art Kunkin of the Los Angeles Free Press got a 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.560 note revealing that the jurors were all Illuminati initiates. The 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.720 telltale sign none of them had a left nipple. What 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.760 if there really is an Illuminati, Wilson asked Thornley one 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.640 pot fogged night in nineteen sixty eight. Maybe they'll find 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.240 out about us and be pissed. I doubt if there is, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.960 Thornley answered, And if they're, by some chances, they'd probably 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.160 be very happy to have wild ass fools like us 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:34.160 covering up for them by spreading bizarre theories. I really 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.320 love this idea that probably at some point they like 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.760 checked someone for it and then they're like, no, no, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.440 it's not a left nipple and a right nipple. It's 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.480 two right nipples, just one of thems on the other side. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:51.080 they doubled the right nipples. So obviously none of what 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.520 they're doing helps this cloud of suspicion that's fallen down 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.640 on Carrie that he's deeply involved in the Kennedy assassination. 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.120 And by this point JFK conspiracy theorists have become aware 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.880 of the Discordians and thornley Is involvement and have decided 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.399 the Discordians are a CIA front, which, in fairness is 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:13.240 something to the Discordians claimed too. So this doesn't nowhere. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:23.080 Um oh boy, So I'm not gonna fed jacket myself, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.280 you know, I mean they do that immediately. Yeah. Um. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.959 So Thornley becomes the constant victim of stalking by groups 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.000 of men in suits, and it's like he is legitimately 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.959 under investigation by the government. Some of these guys are 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.119 probably FEDS, some of them are probably conspiracy theorists also 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.159 carry as a paranoid schizophrenic who's taking LSD and marijuana 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.920 nearly every single day. So a lot's going on win 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.640 his head here, right, But like part of what's going 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.800 to make this so much more damaging to him is that, 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.080 like some of the stalking is real, which makes the 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.200 stuff that's not real a lot harder for him him 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.800 to doubt. He also, because you know this is Garrison, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.919 you may not know this. People's phone numbers used to 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:07.960 just be like listed in a book that you can 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.360 pick up. So folks like who are into the conspiracy 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.400 get phone books for wherever he's living, and they start 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.320 like calling him, and some of them will leave like 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.840 cryptic messages, and these are some of these are probably 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.440 discordiants fucking with Carrie right where they're like continuing the 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.639 conspiracy by pretending to be a part of it to 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.240 mess with his head. Some of them are just dead air. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.200 You know, they may just be people actually stalking him. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.200 And yeah, it's it's it's impossible to say entirely what's happening. 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.880 But as we turn over to the seventies, Carrie increasingly 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:42.360 finds himself acting as a stone paranoid. Now, mental illness 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.959 does run in his family. His younger brother Dick suffered 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.320 from schizophrenic auditory hallucinations, and in this period Carrie increasingly 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.199 suffers from them as well. He is eventually diagnosed as 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.760 a paranoid schizophrenic. This is not like podcast Diagnosis Hour 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.440 with Robert Evans. Here Carrie Thornley was diagnosed and he 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.560 also starts escalating his drug use, which this is a 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.520 this is a seed during that do you know God 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.080 in the seventies, when is he born? Um, there's like, 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.359 what decade is he? I think like forties, He's probably 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.960 he's starting his thirties right now, if I'm not mistaken, Yeah, 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.800 it's like thirties, forties. I'm under the impression that's like 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.280 one of the time early thirties is like one of 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.679 the times that late twenties, early thirties is when people 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.800 often have schizophrenic breaks. And it can be I had 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:30.440 a I've had. This happened to a couple of friends 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.399 of mine. I used to live with a young woman 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.800 who was in her mid twenties, had just finished college. 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.199 Was like going through whatever program you go to to 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.720 become like a park ranger and then just kind of 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.440 one day loses it, you know, and yeah, I'm not 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.200 gonna give like the tails, but like it was, it's 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.360 it's it can come on very suddenly. And we know 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.399 one thing we do know is that both LSD and 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.960 marijuana can trigger schizophrenic episodes the martial too, But I'm 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.200 not sure. I'm I'm I think basically any seriously mind 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.760 altering drug can have the effective because I've heard that, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.040 like cocaine can do it too. Like it's and it's 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.920 not like it's creating this in you. It's these are 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.520 people who at some point would have started to experience 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.679 these symptoms, but it can bring it on earlier. It 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.000 can make it, you know, a lot worse. It kind 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.960 of it kind of like knocks over the first domino. Yeah, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.560 but the domino would have probably fallen over eventually anyway. Yes, 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.320 and with car right out to my schizophrenic friends who 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.800 are still awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean obviously this 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.359 is just like a thing he would have had to 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.720 deal with either way. Totally. I don't think anyway. I 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.399 just want to make sure everyone and I knows that 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.760 it's just a yeah, yeah, you know, it's just a thing, 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.439 and this is a thing he would have had to 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:46.720 deal with either way. I will say the fact that 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.920 he is basically never not tripping on acid or smoking 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.680 pot does not help him manage this. Yeah, and his 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.760 friends will note that, like sometimes he'll come in and 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.720 he'll be like fairly like calm and normal, and once 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.119 he hits a joint, he won't be able to stop 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.120 talking about this conspiracy to kill Kennedy and how he's 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:05.760 wrapped up in it and the different things that he 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.920 started to believe about it. And he's kind of so 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.480 aggressive about it that people, a lot of people can't 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.320 spend time around him anymore because it's just like this 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.919 this thing that when he gets into it, he's incapable 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:22.240 of like even seeing the people around him. And Carrie 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.959 goes further and further, kind of off the deep end. 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.159 Over the next couple of years, through the seventies, he 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.879 convinces himself that Oswald was really set up. He starts 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.439 to believe that he may have in fact been Oswald's 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.840 body double or otherwise involved in the conspiracy to kill 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.880 JFK and had simply forgotten about it due to CIA 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.960 mind control radios implanted in his head. And one of 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:45.960 the problems is that, like he has a lot of 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.760 friends like Greg Robert Danton Wilson, the CIA is cutting 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.359 off your microphone, Robbers, Oh no, this isn't the first 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.240 time that you've mentioned that. And then your microphone starts 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.280 cutting out. Yeah, yeah, it's it's that's how the CIA works. 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:05.240 But you know how else the CIA works by planting 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:06.800 people with that let's do so they trip and they 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.960 don't know it. That's one way it works. It works 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.159