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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephynvest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Jamie, you can't be a librarian. Your mother was a

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Speaker 2: woman with no common sense.

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Speaker 3: What what is the Dewey decimal system?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: I think the response of the titular party girl should

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Speaker 3: just be like, shut up, I'm wearing the greatest outfit

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Speaker 3: ever worn by a human person. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Party Girls. My name is Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our show where

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Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. But what

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Speaker 2: pray tell is.

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Speaker 3: That, well, I'll tell you. The Bechdel test is a

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Speaker 3: media metric created Queer Cortinez, Alice and Bechdel friend of

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Speaker 3: the cast. Our best friend, our BFF. We have talked

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Speaker 3: to her twice and she didn't yell so best friends.

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Speaker 3: So she Originally this was a one off joke in

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Speaker 3: her Wonderful Comics collection dice to watch out for has

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Speaker 3: since been adapted to a more mainstream, widely applicable media metric.

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Speaker 3: The version we use of the Bechdel test requires that

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Speaker 3: two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to

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Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man for more

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Speaker 3: than two lines of meaningful dialogue. If you want movies

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Speaker 3: that pass the Bechdel test, congratulations, you've come to the

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Speaker 3: right movie. Because we're talking about Party Girl today.

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Speaker 4: This is so true.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're talking about libraries, they're talking about books.

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Speaker 2: They're talking about the Dewey decimal system, which is named

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Speaker 2: after a man. But the system is self a bad

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Speaker 2: man too.

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Speaker 5: An incredibly terrible man.

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Speaker 3: Like really kind of like an all timer, shockingly bad man.

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Speaker 3: I was on the Behind the Bastards episode about, oh

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Speaker 3: about Dewey, like he's that bad, He's that bad.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea. I didn't know research about mister Dewey.

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Speaker 3: I think that that would be kind of overreach for

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Speaker 3: Party Girl. But but you can go to the Behind

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Speaker 3: the Bastard's episode because it is quite shocking. Oh, but

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Speaker 3: I think I think, let's say the Dewey decibel system

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Speaker 3: is a genderless entity. I agree, Anyways, it passes the

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Speaker 3: Bechtel test. End of episode.

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Speaker 2: Bye, yeah, No, we have a wonderful episode ahead of

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Speaker 2: us with a wonderful guest.

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Speaker 3: She is a.

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Speaker 2: Librarian, storyteller, and debut author of the book Fucked Up

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Speaker 2: fairy Tales, Sinful Cinderellas, Prince Alarmings, and other timeless classics.

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Speaker 2: It's Liz Gotaco.

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Speaker 5: Hello, everyone, so grill to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us. But before we get

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Speaker 3: into party girl, I want to hear more about your

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Speaker 3: book let the listeners know.

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Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, thank you so much. It is a

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Speaker 5: collection of fairy tale for an adult audience, all retellings.

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Speaker 5: So they are fairy tales that have existed in folklore,

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Speaker 5: and essentially I'm just kind of reclaiming fairy tales and

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Speaker 5: like the lessons we can get from them and the

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Speaker 5: kind of bibliotherapy we can use for adults, because for

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Speaker 5: a long time, at some point people were like, fairy

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Speaker 5: tales are for kids, and we're gonna teach kids how

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Speaker 5: to be pious little babies with them, when actually there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of weird stuff happening in them. There's stuff

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Speaker 5: about our bodies, there's stuff about love, and sex and

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Speaker 5: family baggage that I like to bring into my retellings.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, that's so cool. Do you have a this is

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Speaker 3: maybe a boring question for you, but interesting to me.

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Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite fairy tale that you enjoyed reworking.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I didn't do it exactly for the book, but

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Speaker 5: my favorite fairy tale is the Brother's Grim There from

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Speaker 5: one called aler Laira, And it's got an extremely fucked

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Speaker 5: up premise in that princess's father falls in love with

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Speaker 5: her and wants to marry her, and she rescues herself

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Speaker 5: from that situation with like three magical ball gowns that

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Speaker 5: she stuffed in a walnut shell on. She sure has

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Speaker 5: this big, like weird kitchen wench disguise, and she goes

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Speaker 5: to another kingdom and hides out until she can meet

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Speaker 5: someone who isn't her dad. Ah, And that's my favorite

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Speaker 5: fairy tale for some reason.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that there is in all the twists You're like,

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Speaker 3: that is ultimately somehow a relatable story for many just

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Speaker 3: hanging out waiting to meet a man that's not your dad, Like,

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Speaker 3: been there, been there, doing something weird while waiting to

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Speaker 3: meet a man who's not my dad. That was eighteen

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Speaker 3: years of my life. Well, I'm very excited to dig

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Speaker 3: into the book and very excited to have a real

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Speaker 3: life librarian on the Zoom call to talk about Party Girls.

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Speaker 5: So we are flesh and blood.

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Speaker 3: It's true, it's free and truly. Our bravest soldiers are librarians,

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Speaker 3: especially now, which I would also love to talk about,

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Speaker 3: but definitely. But first, what is your relationship with the

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Speaker 3: movie Party Girl.

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Speaker 5: I I first saw it, I think right around when

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Speaker 5: I got my graduate degree, because I don't know, sort

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Speaker 5: of like write a passageway. You're a librarian now, and

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Speaker 5: you want to like see all the different versions of

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Speaker 5: yourself in like library media.

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Speaker 3: Is this Is this like librarian, cinema cannon?

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, for sure, Okay, okay, awesome, and we can

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Speaker 5: we'll talk about it. But I actually think it's a

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Speaker 5: really it's probably one of the better like representations of

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Speaker 5: like an authentic library in movies. I didn't like totally

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Speaker 5: click with this one at the time. I think I

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Speaker 5: was a little bit of a judy when I was young,

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Speaker 5: believe or not. Now I've gotten older and I'm appreciating

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Speaker 5: more of my merry side of myself now.

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Speaker 4: You're a party girl exactly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because like we're seeing it again now in like

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Speaker 5: my forties with more like life experience. Uh, I just

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Speaker 5: like love it so much, so it's been really excited

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Speaker 5: to remiss it now with like fifteen years of librarian

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Speaker 5: ship under my belt and much better taste.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie?

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Speaker 3: I only saw it for the first time earlier this year,

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Speaker 3: and like, I watched it on a whim as a

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Speaker 3: person trying to make my own indie feature. You're like, okay, Like,

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Speaker 3: what are what is the like s tier movie made

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Speaker 3: for twelve dollars? That's amazing, and this definitely falls into

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Speaker 3: that category. It came out in nineteen ninety five, for

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Speaker 3: it was made for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 3: which is absurd even in nineteen ninety five money. I

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Speaker 3: love that it was written and directed by a woman.

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Speaker 3: I know there's a male co writer, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: iconically not include him, and so I was just really

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Speaker 3: excited to check it out, and it fucking rocks. It's

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Speaker 3: so much fun. I feel like this is one of

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Speaker 3: the many characters Mary that has healed my relationship with

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Speaker 3: the bimbo stereotype. I think about bimbo stereotypes a lot,

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Speaker 3: and have in the last decade, mainly because of the

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Speaker 3: work of Sarah Marshall, a bimbo's champion, and not just

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Speaker 3: in terms of like reclaiming the term, but women who

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Speaker 3: are like sexually open are framed, are framed and demonized

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Speaker 3: so horrifically. This is something we know and made to

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Speaker 3: seem like not smart and not able to adapt and change. Bah.

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Speaker 3: And so I think if I saw this movie ten

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Speaker 3: years ago, I would have really chafed with Mary, similar

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Speaker 3: to you, Liz. Yeah, But seeing it now, it's like

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Speaker 3: I see the vision. And also because she's played by

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Speaker 3: Parker Posey, Parker Posey like gets it. I feel like

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Speaker 3: she just gets Mary to her bones and like shapes

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Speaker 3: her into this really beautiful character. I don't know, there's

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Speaker 3: so much And I love Mustapha, I love their I

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Speaker 3: love their weird, little horny twenty something romance. Like I

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Speaker 3: just yeah, there's, uh, there's lots to love about this movie.

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Speaker 3: Also that the directors know if it was her direct followup,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm gonna get the name right.

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Speaker 3: Daisy von Schurler Mayer Daisy von Schurler Mayer, which is

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Speaker 3: a mouthful, and I celebrate that she later directed the

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Speaker 3: live action Madeline movie that I remember vividly.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I don't remember that at all. I haven't seen

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Speaker 4: that one.

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Speaker 3: It was I don't think very successful. I just know

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Speaker 3: my cousin had it on VHS.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it stars Francis mcdormant as the nun from Madeline.

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Speaker 3: She is the I don't know if it's good. I

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Speaker 3: do know that it wasn't successful, and I also know

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Speaker 3: that I've seen it a lot of times and that

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Speaker 3: she is, like she's still very much working. She's almost sixty.

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Speaker 3: She's been mostly working in TV, but she like also

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Speaker 3: did recent episodes of like Yellowjackets. Like, she's very much working,

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Speaker 3: and I just think her career is really interesting. And

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Speaker 3: this movie rocks long way of saying, I like this

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Speaker 3: movie and I've seen it twice. Nice Caitlin, what about you.

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Speaker 2: I had never seen this movie before prepping for this episode.

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Speaker 2: I remember you talking about it, Jamie earlier this year,

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Speaker 2: when you had seen it for the first time and

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Speaker 2: really enjoying it. I will say that I did not

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Speaker 2: connect with this movie quite as much nor the character Mary.

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Speaker 2: I love Parker Posey so much, but I don't know

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Speaker 2: something about some of her behavior. Just I was not

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Speaker 2: the biggest fan. I think there are things to like

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Speaker 2: about this movie, but for me, like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: some of its parts just didn't. It didn't all come

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Speaker 2: together for me. But uh, there's lots to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited to discuss.

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Speaker 4: Should we take.

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Speaker 2: A quick break and then come back for the recap.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it, Okay, I'll play.

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Speaker 2: It's a quick content warning here at the top for

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Speaker 2: attempted sexual assault that happens toward the end of the movie.

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Speaker 2: But we open on a party that's being thrown by

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Speaker 2: the party girl herself, Mary, played by Parker Posey. We

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Speaker 2: briefly meet some friends of hers also at the party,

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Speaker 2: including a DJ who Mary seems to owe money to.

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Speaker 2: We meet Mary's boyfriend, Nigel played by Leave Schreiber, but

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Speaker 2: soon after this the cops show up and Mary is

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Speaker 2: arrested and thrown in jail with charges like selling alcohol

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Speaker 2: without a license and possession of controlled substances. So Mary

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Speaker 2: uses her one phone call to call her godmother Judy,

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Speaker 2: who apparently bails her out. Because we cut to Mary

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Speaker 2: out of jail, ordering full of Full with hot sauce,

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Speaker 2: a side of bob aganoosh, and a seltzer from a

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Speaker 2: street vendor named Mustafa played by Omar Townsend, who is cute,

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Speaker 2: and they flirt a little bit. Then Mary goes to

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Speaker 2: the library where Judy works, so we meet Judy on

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Speaker 2: screen for the first time, and she is played by

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Speaker 2: Sasha von Schuler, who is director Daisy von Schuler, Mayer's mother.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: Mary asks Judy for a loan and or a job

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Speaker 2: at the library, and Judy is reluctant to give Mary

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Speaker 2: a job, saying that she's just like her mother and

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Speaker 2: her mother had no common sense. But the library has

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Speaker 2: experienced budget cuts and Judy realizes she can hire Mary

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Speaker 2: as a clerk and not pay her very much. So

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Speaker 2: Judy gives Mary this job. That's how I got a

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Speaker 2: job at the Comptroller's Office of Massachusetts for these summers.

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Speaker 5: That's hilarious. Word.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the only nepotism I've ever been the beneficiary

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Speaker 3: of the nepotism alive.

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Speaker 5: And well in the public government system for sure. Yeah

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Speaker 5: that small, small, small public government.

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Speaker 2: Right. So now Mary has this job, but oh no,

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Speaker 2: she has to learn the Dewey decimal system.

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Speaker 3: I just think this is such a fun hill to

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Speaker 3: scale for her because it is, well, Liz, it's confusing, right,

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Speaker 3: it is is it is.

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Speaker 5: And for some reason, like the employees of this library

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Speaker 5: seem to know it down to like the twentieth decimal

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Speaker 5: decimal as well, which I have to say I do.

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Speaker 5: That's not the kind of library and I am there,

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Speaker 5: but it's it's one of those things where you get

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Speaker 5: like the broad strokes of it before you have to

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Speaker 5: get the nitty gritty, and they're kind of throwing Mary

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Speaker 5: into the deep end I think.

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Speaker 6: A little bit.

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Speaker 5: It takes a lot of a lot of training to

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Speaker 5: just be like a library page or a library clerk

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Speaker 5: who does the shelving.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, when I was in school, I think both like

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Speaker 2: elementary and high school, we would have like one class

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Speaker 2: a week where we had like library library, right, and

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Speaker 2: because I think like most children would not really go

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Speaker 2: to the library otherwise unless they were forced to buy

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Speaker 2: a class, So we would all go to the library

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Speaker 2: and we would learn the Dewey decimal system, which to

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Speaker 2: this day I still don't understand. I found it very complicated,

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Speaker 2: but we would have like tests on it and stuff

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Speaker 2: that's hard for.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's rare, yeah, because when we went

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Speaker 3: to library class, they were just like, please read a book.

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Speaker 3: Any book. That was sort of library class.

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Speaker 5: Ours combined with like tech to a little bit like

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Speaker 5: with early like internet technology.

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Speaker 6: Right, hmm.

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Speaker 3: There should be I thought about this before. If you're

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Speaker 3: like this, it's so like niche, but there should be

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Speaker 3: just a bunch of interviews about what specific computer classes

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Speaker 3: were like a particular times, because early computer classes were

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Speaker 3: so fucking unhinged and bizarre like there. I feel like

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Speaker 3: I've definitely talked about this on the show before because

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Speaker 3: I think about it constantly. But we had like in

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Speaker 3: middle school, we had computer class and it would be

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Speaker 3: like you play a math game, you play a reading game,

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Speaker 3: and then you play a weird third game that was

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Speaker 3: about internet safety, and you're playing a detective and you're

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Speaker 3: trying to save a kid who talked to someone in

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Speaker 3: a chat room and is now being held hostage in California.

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Speaker 3: Like it was terrifying. It was just like meant to

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Speaker 3: scare you into never using a computer again, even though

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Speaker 3: you were at computer class. It was so weird.

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Speaker 5: I don't even remember that type of stuff. I just

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Speaker 5: remember like bs and clang, Oregon Trail and like sending notes,

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Speaker 5: but with a computer until high school when I had

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Speaker 5: to take it and it was so I was so

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Speaker 5: fucking bored. I was like, well, I'm just gonna become

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Speaker 5: the best typiest in the world, and I am nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, part of my computer class was like a typing class,

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Speaker 2: and they were like, if you don't learn how to

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Speaker 2: type ninety words a minute, you're gonna fail miserably in

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Speaker 2: the rest of your life. And so I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I have to learn.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad was really I never. I still type

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Speaker 3: like boink blank blink, but like ASDF, JKL semi, like

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Speaker 3: that sort of that style of typing, like I won't

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Speaker 3: I never. It's I don't know, like I think it's

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Speaker 3: like people with typewriters, or maybe it was a reporter thing.

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Speaker 3: I honestly don't know. But you keep your fingers if

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Speaker 3: you're writing, you keep your fingers on ASDF on your last, JKL,

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Speaker 3: semi on the other and then yes, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but that's just I don't think that there's a single

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Speaker 3: person under fifty that does that. Now, probably not I

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Speaker 3: do you do you ASDF?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my default ASDF.

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Speaker 3: Wow, you were like raised write or something like, I

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Speaker 3: don't even that's not true there, you were raised differently, Yes, anyways, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's to the library. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I do think like the goal of like the school

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Speaker 5: library and these classes is so that like people like

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Speaker 5: Mary or whatever, you can become like a self sufficient

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Speaker 5: person in like locating information, not just like for school

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Speaker 5: but in general and life. And but it's just like

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Speaker 5: never works out that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Mary is kind of she's in over her

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Speaker 2: head with this library clerk job that she has just gotten.

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Speaker 3: She's Parker poseying out about the Dewey decimal system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Again, all of those like shots of Melville Dewey's poster there,

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Speaker 5: especially like knowing what a dirtbag he was, especially like haunting.

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Speaker 3: I know, I'm like, did day, I feel like Daisy,

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Speaker 3: we weren't. We weren't as a culture talking about the

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Speaker 3: crimes of Melville Dewey in nineteen ninety five. She didn't know, No,

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Speaker 3: she talked.

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Speaker 5: I mean they do like briefly mention his sexism at

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Speaker 5: the end of the movie about true but not crimes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the crimes the racism of the anti sebotism,

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Speaker 3: like it's just every every way you could be a

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Speaker 3: bad person. He gave it a shot.

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Speaker 6: We hate that, yep.

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Speaker 2: So then we see Mary back at her apartment loft.

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Speaker 2: She lives in this huge Manhattan question Mark or whatever

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Speaker 2: somewhere in New York City loft, and she's hanging out

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Speaker 2: with her friend Derek, who is always talking about this

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Speaker 2: guy named Carl who he hooked up with but Carl

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Speaker 2: didn't ever call him back. She's also hanging out with

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Speaker 2: her friend Leo, the DJ we met earlier, who has

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Speaker 2: kind of moved in because he needs a place to

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Speaker 2: stay for a while. And she takes Leo to this

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Speaker 2: place called Renees, the hottest nightclub in town, because Leo

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Speaker 2: wants to spin at this club. So she's going to

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Speaker 2: introduce Leo to Renee, who we meet on screen.

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Speaker 3: I'm so curious if there's any first of all, any

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Speaker 3: DJ is listed to our show, sccond of all, is

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Speaker 3: this an accurate portrayal of DJ. It's like, I, I mean,

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Speaker 3: Leo seems very committed to his crap, but I was

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Speaker 3: just like, I don't know, DJ is such a nebulous,

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Speaker 3: fascinating job. To me because you're like, what are you guys?

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Speaker 6: What are you doing? Are you? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: But it sounds and I feel mean saying that, but

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Speaker 3: like I've been to so many weddings and I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: it is you. You are curating the vibe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but like.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I also think that like nineties DJ, where you're like

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Speaker 2: literally standing records, very different. There's a joke about this

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Speaker 2: and pop Star Never Stops Stopping where I got a.

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Speaker 3: Cut for it.

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00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 2: So good feminist canon. But so it's dormant Decom's character.

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Speaker 2: He plays Andy Samberg's characters DJ, and there's a joke

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Speaker 2: where he's like, yeah, like back in the day, I

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Speaker 2: used to actually like spin and do stuff as a DJ,

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Speaker 2: And uh now I just hit play on an iPod.

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Speaker 3: Leo is Leo is working?

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Speaker 2: He is spinning?

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Speaker 5: Yes, Yeah, he's creating a collage, a collage of vibes.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Is it my personal vibe? Not really, but I celebrate it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and everyone around.

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Speaker 5: Him seems to be enjoying it something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, you're like, Okay, I guess I must have

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Speaker 3: been a nineteen ninety five thing. People liked this shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, around this time, Mary breaks up with her

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Speaker 2: leaf shreber boyfriend Nigel, saying that he lowers her worth

357
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Speaker 2: because it seems like he drinks quite a lot and

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Speaker 2: he like maybe like pisses in public or something, and

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Speaker 2: she's like, you're a dirt bag. I'm breaking up with you.

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Speaker 3: Love that right, yeah goode.

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00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 2: Then at work at the library, Mary tries to get

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Speaker 2: the hang of things, but that damn Dewey decimal system

363
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 2: is really she's really struggling with it. Then she goes

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00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 2: to order more falafel from Mustafa and she tries to

365
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: chat with him in Arabic because because she has been

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Speaker 2: learning a few phrases specifically to be able to talk

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Speaker 2: to him, and he tells her that he used to

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Speaker 2: be a teacher back in Lebanon, but he's reluctant to

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Speaker 2: teach in the US because he feels his English isn't

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Speaker 2: good enough. Then he asks her on a date Friday night,

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Speaker 2: which she seems excited about, and we see her at

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Speaker 2: home doing a very offensive dance and singing thing. She's

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Speaker 2: being very culturally insensitive and that's how she's displaying her excitement.

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Speaker 3: Question mark.

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Speaker 2: But when it comes time for the date with Mustapha

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Speaker 2: on Friday night, she blows it off in favor of

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Speaker 2: sneaking into the library and trying to figure out the

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Speaker 2: filing system, especially because we just saw Judy be raiding

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Speaker 2: her and again saying her mother has no common sense,

380
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: neither to you, and your life is frivolous. And so

381
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 2: Mary has been feeling especially inadequate and aimless, and so

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00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 2: she's trying to like improve at her library clerk job

383
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 2: and take pride in her work. But then we cut

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Speaker 2: to Mustafa, who is being stood up and he's really

385
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: bummed about it. Leo, meanwhile, has followed up with Renee,

386
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Speaker 2: the nightclub owner, and she has given him an audition

387
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: spot Friday night to spin, and he's really nervous, especially

388
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 2: after he sees a beautiful dancer named Venus, and he

389
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: messes up a little bit, but he recovers and he

390
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 2: does a pretty decent job the rest of the night.

391
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Speaker 2: The next day, Mary comes upon Judy as she's having

392
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Speaker 2: a hot flash, and we're like, okay, menopause representation in

393
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Speaker 2: media beautiful. Then Mary goes to Mustafa's food cart again,

394
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: but he's still her that she bailed on their date.

395
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: Neither of them directly addressed this but he makes a

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00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: remark about how she was dismissive of him, and she's

397
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Speaker 2: just like shrug, give me my falafel and baba ganush

398
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 2: and Seltzer please, and you're just like.

399
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Speaker 3: Mary, Mary.

400
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 4: I mean I do.

401
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 3: It is interesting rewatching this movie because I feel like

402
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 3: in there's issues issues with it that we'll talk about,

403
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: but there is like the low budget feel of like

404
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: the plot is kind of all over the place. I

405
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: feel like there's certain sequences where you're like, she's just

406
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 3: kind of twisting in the wind. I don't understand her behavior.

407
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: And luckily I really like Parker Posey.

408
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean she's like so in the moment too,

409
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, it was very like of her, not

410
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 5: even acknowledging that she blow him off, and she's like

411
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Speaker 5: very impulsive and it seems to be stuck where she is.

412
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's like, you know, we see

413
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 3: her learn from that over the course of the movie,

414
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 3: but especially at that moment. I mean, that's that's a

415
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 3: tough one because you're like, Mustafa just like shared something

416
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: very personal with you, He like really opened up to you,

417
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: and your response is to do a weird racist stands

418
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Speaker 3: at your house. And then blow them off.

419
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 6: What do you mean?

420
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you mean?

421
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: Really?

422
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 4: Any setting.

423
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 2: Then, at work, Mary is much better at her job

424
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: these days, but Judy still undermines her and compares her

425
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: to her common senseless mother, which of course frustrates Mary.

426
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 2: Then she bumps into Renee at the library, who thinks

427
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: that Mary is there for an AA meeting, which is

428
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 2: what Renee is there for. So she confides in Mary.

429
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 2: And then there's this weird joke. We'll talk all about

430
00:23:53,440 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 2: how Renee's alcoholism is represented in the like comic relief

431
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 2: that the movie's trying to do with it, but that's there.

432
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: Then there's a montage of Mary ordering falaffel from Mustapha again,

433
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 2: but he's not thrilled about her always coming around. He

434
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: has previously told her like, leave me alone, but she

435
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: keeps coming back. He tries to send her to the

436
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: gentrification falaffel kart across the street, and so we'll talk

437
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 2: about that as well, but she's like, no, I want

438
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: your falafel. Then Mary puts her library filing skills to

439
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 2: practice and organizes Leo's like over one thousand records by

440
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: a filing system akin to the Dewey decimal system, which

441
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: infuriates Leo because he already had a system and she

442
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: fucked it up. But she's like, no, no, no, my

443
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: system is better.

444
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 3: Here.

445
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 2: I'll teach you how to use it. And then it

446
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: seems like he kind of comes around on it, and

447
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: so it was good actually that she interfered with his life.

448
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: And there's what I found to be a very bizarre

449
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: scene where Leo takes a shower and she's like, no,

450
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: it's my turn to take a shower. So she gets

451
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: in the shower with him without his permission, and they're

452
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 2: naked and then she kisses him. The consent here is

453
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 2: murky at best, just off the rails.

454
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it really goes nowhere yeah yeah, and then

455
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: goes nowhere. Yeah. I wrote that I was just like,

456
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: question Mark didn't love it, Like it's so like because

457
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: it's really unclear what the movie thinks is happening, yeah,

458
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 3: and what the characters thinker is happening. So I'm like,

459
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: or if there's any precedent for this having happened in

460
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: this roommate relationship before, like, just nothing but questions. I

461
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 3: stand with what I said, which is question Mark didn't

462
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 3: love it.

463
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 6: A fair assessment.

464
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 5: Yes.

465
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

466
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: Then we cut to Mary back at the library. Mustapha

467
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: comes in looking for information on becoming a teacher in

468
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: the US, not realizing that Mary works there, and she

469
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: helps him, and then they have sex in the library.

470
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: It's after hours at this point, so like they're alone,

471
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: it's not like they're doing it in front of other people.

472
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 2: But she forgets to close the windows and it's pouring

473
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: rain outside, and the rain splashes in and it ruins

474
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 2: several books, which enrages Judy. The next day, Judy also

475
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: sees like a used condom in the trash, so she

476
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: knows that Mary had sex in the library, and this

477
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: is when she goes.

478
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: But she had a good reason, like I'm very pro

479
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: Mary having sex in the library. I actually have to.

480
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 5: Say, as like a public librarian, I don't think I

481
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 5: would just automatically assume it was my coworker that had

482
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 5: sex in the library. Either in a public building, it

483
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 5: could be anyone's condom.

484
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: That's true. Famously, anyone can go so it's very easy

485
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: to be like, it wasn't me, It wasn't It could

486
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 3: have been anyone in the city.

487
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: So true, so true. I mean I guess to Mary's credit.

488
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: She cops to it immediately, She's like, yeah, I fucked.

489
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: Oh n it. So it's like, also, it is cool

490
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: that she fucked in the library, so why had it right?

491
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: It's like, you're jealous. I hear you, and I hear

492
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: that you're jealous.

493
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah yeah.

494
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: And then this is when Judy has a monologue about

495
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: gender roles and women being underappreciated in the work they

496
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: do in libraries. Again, we can talk more about this later,

497
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: but the bottom line is Judy is furious and she

498
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 2: fires Mary from the library, and then when it rains,

499
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 2: it pours because Mary also gets an eviction notice, so

500
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: she's really having the low point of the movie. She

501
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: sells a bunch of her designer clothes to a thrift

502
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: store so she can make rent, and she's once again

503
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 2: feeling very lost and aimless. She doesn't know what to

504
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: do with her life. Mustapha consoles her and like as

505
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: he's embracing her, she looks around and she's like, hmm,

506
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: this would be a great place for a party. Cut

507
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: to she's throwing another party, one that is once again

508
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 2: very culturally insensitive and appropriative, and it's also her birthday

509
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 2: party because it's her birthday, but she's very stressed out

510
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: about like the logistics of throwing the party, and she's

511
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: lashing out. So Mustapha confronts her for being shitty to

512
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: the people who are helping her, and she doesn't like

513
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: being confronted. So to cope with everything that's going on,

514
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: she takes some drugs and they make her like go

515
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: off the deep end. She's like falling all over the place.

516
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: She says the f slur to her friend Derek a

517
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: bunch of times.

518
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: She shared us Yeah.

519
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: Then her ex boyfriend Nigel pulls her aside and attempts

520
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: to assault her several times, but she's able to get

521
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: way and she goes into her building and passes out

522
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: on the stairs. She wakes up the next morning and

523
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: goes to the library to be like, hey, Judy, I

524
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: need to talk to you. Come over to my place

525
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: tonight at eight o'clock. Then Mary enlists the help of

526
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: a few of her former library colleagues and starts researching

527
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 2: places for Mary to go to grad school and study

528
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: library science so that she can become a librarian.

529
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: I was like this, now the movie's becoming Kaitlin Cannon,

530
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: because higher education is becoming integral to the plot.

531
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: She's trying to get a master's degree, but once she

532
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 2: gets it, she will never mention it.

533
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I feel like Mary

534
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: would be bringing it up.

535
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, that gets very librarian to bring up your

536
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 5: master's degree. So the difference between film world and library world,

537
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 5: I think in terms of graduate studies.

538
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: As someone with again a master's degree in screenwriting from

539
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: Boston University, I would never mention my master's degree.

540
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 5: So master's de grace from the University of her An

541
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 5: Island and I'm load, I'm proud about.

542
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: It, and I uh am not in debt smart, very smart.

543
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 4: Okay.

544
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: So meanwhile, Derek and Leo are at Mary's place setting

545
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: up a second birthday party for her. This one's a

546
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: surprise party, and she comes home and they're like surprise,

547
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: But she is not as much of a party girl anymore.

548
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: She is now more of a library girl. So she

549
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: tries to break up the party before Judy arrives. But

550
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: Judy shows up and she's like, I knew it, You're

551
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: a frivolous party girl. There's a male stripper who's dancing

552
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: all over Mary while she's begging Judy for her library

553
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: job back.

554
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: It's a very chaotic and just movie like they're it

555
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 3: felt like they were like, oh my god, we all

556
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: they have one day left to shoot. I guess we're

557
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: just gonna have to do everything that's left in the movie.

558
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: Everything just kind of happens. It feels very rushed. Yeah,

559
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: I kind of love it, like it's just yeah, very frenetic.

560
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 6: Yes. Yes.

561
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: And then Mary's friends come to her defense and they're like,

562
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: she helped organize my records, she helped me research how

563
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: to become a teacher. And Judy is like, damn, okay,

564
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: maybe you are a library girl. And she gives Mary

565
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: her job back, and everyone celebrates and dances and parties because.

566
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 6: You can do both. You can.

567
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: You can the end, let's take a quick break and

568
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 3: then we'll come back and throw a party in the library.

569
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 6: Who and we're back.

570
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: What feels right? I mean, I sort of want to

571
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: start with what doesn't work about this movie, so we

572
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: can talk more about libraries and bimbos and stuff that does.

573
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: I think that, like, okay, so obviously there's a lot

574
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: of racial insensitivity in this movie that comes from our

575
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: protagonists who were supposed to love. Yeah, I think, like,

576
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: so this is a two white writers. There is this

577
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: co writer, Harry Burkmeyer, Daisy von Schirler Mayer is both

578
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 3: the writer and the director. So this is coming from

579
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: a white perspective. And I would be curious if she

580
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: spoke with anyone of a Lebanese background or just a

581
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: non white background at all when building out this story,

582
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: because I think that the character of Mustapha is thoughtful.

583
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: Asterisk for nineteen ninety five, right, which was mentioned when

584
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: this movie first came out, And there's a quote from

585
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: Daisy von Schurlermeyer. I'm just gonna say Dave Meyer because

586
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: that's what she uses now, but that people were complimenting

587
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: her her on like oh, you're your movie is so diverse,

588
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 3: and she says, no, that's the world. You don't represent

589
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: the world in your stuff. Why is your world so segregated?

590
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: I think the world is messed up and party Girl

591
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: is normal. So she's coming from like this comes from

592
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: an attempt to show New York as it is or

593
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: as it was when this movie is made, which I

594
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: think is like a very valiant and cool thing to do.

595
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: But because our protagonist is aggressively white, you could say,

596
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: I feel like when she was doing these all this

597
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: culturally insensitive stuff, she doesn't learn from it and it's

598
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: played for laughs, and so it just sucks like it

599
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: just yeah, there's.

600
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 5: Just no if she had to reckon with that at

601
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 5: some point in the movie, it would be very different.

602
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 5: Because I know, I'm like an extremely white presenting woman,

603
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 5: but my father is Filipino, and so I think there

604
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 5: it's a pretty realistic actually to like feel like you're

605
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 5: honoring someone close to you their culture and to do

606
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 5: it in a completely misguided way. But obviously if you

607
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 5: present that and then never like reckon with it, then

608
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 5: all the wrong lessons are being learned.

609
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 3: It's interest because I feel like the potential, Like I

610
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 3: don't know like a lot of things, and I know

611
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: that this was like a movie very much made like

612
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: Run and Gun style, but like it felt like there

613
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 3: was a lot left on the table with Mustapha's character

614
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: in general, because I really liked the like the story

615
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: we get with him. You know so much more about

616
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: him than you know about most people of color in

617
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 3: movies in nineteen ninety five, which is depressing, but like

618
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 3: you know, he is like a very sweet person, like

619
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 3: he wants to be a teacher. He has this ambition

620
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: that exists outside of our protagonist, which again rare, but like,

621
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: because Mary does not learn anything about her own cultural insensitivity,

622
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 3: it's like hard to her root for that relationship for

623
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: Mustafa because you're like, that sucks for him.

624
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because so much of what she is doing

625
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: is that white people sing of wearing other people's cultures

626
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: as a costume. Because we see again that scene where

627
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: she has like developed a crush on Mustafa and she

628
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: goes home and does that like bizarro like feels like

629
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: maybe she's mimicking belly dancing or more likely mimicking other

630
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: caricatures of Arabs that she has a copy of a

631
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: copy of a comedy, Yeah, precisely. And then there's the

632
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 2: part where she and Mustafa are supposed to go on

633
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: a date. She completely blows him off. She shows up

634
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: at his falafel cart as if nothing has happened. He's

635
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: rightfully upset and says something like, you seem to misunderstand

636
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: what's going on here, and it feels like you've you know,

637
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: you met a vendor who speaks funny English, and for you,

638
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: it's a holiday travel without buying a plane ticket, but

639
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: I can't agree with this, like can you go? And

640
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: she completely shrugs this off. She does not apologize, she

641
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: does not acknowledge her shitty, white privileged behavior. There's that

642
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: part where he tells her that he was a teacher

643
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: back in Lebanon but that he has like struggled to

644
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: become a teacher here, and she's super dismissive about it.

645
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: She's just like, well, why don't you just become a

646
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: teacher in America? Like what are you doing with a

647
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 2: falafful cart. She's also like pretty classist in the way

648
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: that she talks about doing any kind of like service jobs.

649
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: She's like, I am not a waitress. I will never

650
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: be a waitress.

651
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: Which I also feel like that I interpreted that as

652
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: like her coping, like because she is. I don't know,

653
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 3: there is like this Hollygo lightly quality to her where

654
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 3: she wants. She like has no money herself, but she

655
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: wants to appear wealthy, and so I feel like it's

656
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: like she I don't know, maybe I'm giving the character

657
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 3: too much credit, but it's not like she's above any

658
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 3: working class job, like she she needs work. It's like

659
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 3: she can't admit that to herself. Yes, for sure. So

660
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 3: I felt like a lot of her classes stuff felt

661
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 3: coping coded to me. I guess yeah. But the way

662
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: that she treats Mustava, I just I get it. Like

663
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: her character is supposed to be like careless and lost,

664
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: and like then she learns the Dewey decimal system and

665
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: that somehow solves everything whatever. But like I was repeatedly

666
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: bumped by, like you said, Caitlin, like that speech that

667
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 3: Mustapha brings, like he's very clear about like why he

668
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: is not okay with how she's treating him. He has

669
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 3: a detailed backstory, like it isn't as if the writers

670
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 3: are not thinking about him. They've like built a very sympathetic, cool,

671
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: unique character, So why is he treated so badly? Like

672
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: it's not played for laughs that he's treated badly. It

673
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: kind of just like happens. And there isn't like quite

674
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 3: the resolution or movement on Mary's part.

675
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 5: So it's yeah, yeah, and I can't even tell how

676
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 5: we're how they're kind of hoping we're gonna feel about

677
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 5: it either, because right, I mean I certainly know, like

678
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 5: when she has her like Arabian Night's birthday party or whatever,

679
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 5: and she's like tokenies her boyfriend in his uniform and

680
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: is saying, it's funny, it'll be funny if you, you know,

681
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 5: build your full offel. Yeah, it just comes across as

682
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 5: so wild and I'm guessing maybe it's just supposed to

683
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 5: represent her kind of bottoming out, but it's feel terrible

684
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 5: for Mufasa that it never comes around later on.

685
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've just you're just like and then he like

686
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: sticks up for her towards the end, because that's what

687
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 3: needs to happen at the end of the movie. I

688
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: don't know, I just I've I've it felt like there

689
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 3: should have been a victory for Mustafa in the context

690
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 3: of this relationship where we see him stand up for himself.

691
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 3: It just kind of seems like everything that resolves seems

692
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: to happen in a way that we don't see or

693
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: is it kind of like YadA YadA, when I think

694
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 3: it's like very within the you know, ability of this

695
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: movie to like have those conversations with these characters, like

696
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: this movie can have uncomfortable conversations, and I just felt

697
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: like Mustapha kind of got left by the way side. Yeah,

698
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: in this in this way that feels like really gross

699
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: because we know this character, we love this character, but

700
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: like you're saying, Liz, like I am so unclear on

701
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 3: because white cultural insensitivity is so prevalent then and now

702
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: that it's like this is I feel like that kind

703
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 3: of insensitivity. This is like the tip of the iceberg

704
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 3: in the nineties. So it's like hard to watch in

705
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five and really like understand what we're supposed

706
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: to be, Like, are we supposed to be offended and

707
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: embarrassed and upset with her in nineteen ninety five? I

708
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 3: genuinely don't know.

709
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the big problem here, as we've said, is that

710
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: things were resolve narratively, but we don't see any effort

711
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: on the part of the white character to unlearn her

712
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 2: racism or to hold herself accountable for it and acknowledge

713
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: it and apologize for it. Like, we see none of that.

714
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: It's just that they've made up. They've kissed and made up,

715
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: and it's nice. A very similar thing happens with what

716
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: appears to be commentary on cultural appropriation with the white

717
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: full Awful vendors who have a food cart across the

718
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 2: street from Mustaphas, and you can imagine that like their

719
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: food is not very good or authentic, but the white

720
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: people in the neighborhood are lining up for the white

721
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: people full afful that they put toothpicks in and stuff

722
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: like that, And I feel like Mary always going to

723
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: Mustafa's cart and not the like gentrification falafful cart is

724
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: supposed to be shorthand for Mary's cool and she can

725
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: hang and that's why it's quote unquote okay for her

726
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: to then turn around and throw like cultural appropriation the

727
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 2: party at the end of the movie. But anyway, so

728
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: throughout the entire movie, it's Mustafa resenting that these white

729
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: food vendors are making his culture's food and doing it

730
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: wrong and it's way more popular, like their business is

731
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: way more successful than his.

732
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 3: Which is like good commentary. So it's exactly yeah again,

733
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: so you're like this movie is able to engage with

734
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 3: these issues. But then there's like a clear point with

735
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: Mary's character where they just stop for sure.

736
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: And then at the end of the movie this magically

737
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: resolves itself where suddenly no one's going to the white

738
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: people full awful cart and it's no longer popular and

739
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: everyone is instead lining up at Mustafa's food cart. But

740
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: we don't know what changed or why it's just this

741
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: sort of magical resolution that happens without again anyone learning

742
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: anything or.

743
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does feel like sort of like oh no,

744
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 3: the movie has to end, like.

745
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's like a short movie. It feels like

746
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 5: there's like a cutting room floor full of scenes that

747
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 5: maybe want to filled some of this in.

748
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 3: I mean also just like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

749
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 3: They may have just been like we can afford to

750
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 3: shoot for ten days, and whatever we get on those

751
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 3: ten days ends up beating the movie. But like I yeah,

752
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: I again, it's like I'm glad that that wasn't dropped,

753
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 3: but like you're saying, Caitlin, it was very just like

754
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 3: happy ending in a way that like doesn't engage with

755
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: the clear commentary that that conflict was introduced with. So

756
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 3: it's like yet another thing that it's like it's set

757
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 3: up in a way that you're like, oh, this could

758
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 3: be really interesting, but then it's either like dropped, forgotten about,

759
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 3: or just like tied up in a very weird neat

760
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 3: bow and just like yeah, going back to the relationship

761
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: with Mary Mustafa, because it seems like whatever these conversations,

762
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 3: well whatever the resolution with their relationship happens mostly off screen.

763
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: You do sort of like leave with the impression that

764
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: and I think that this is like again, another common

765
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 3: thing that this movie should be commenting on instead of

766
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 3: just doing, is like she doesn't make any movement on

767
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 3: her cultural insensitivity or covert racism or overt racism. So

768
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: if at the end, if Mustapha is choosing to be

769
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 3: with her, like, what choice do we have but to

770
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 3: think like, okay, so he's just compartmentalized that and said

771
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 3: I accept her like I will not demand more of

772
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 3: my partner, which is like a very like he deserves better,

773
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: he deserves yea better.

774
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: I also want to talk about the black characters in

775
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: the movie, who are very much either secondary or tertiary

776
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: characters whose interior lives we know nothing about. The few

777
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 2: who we learn by name, Each one has some thing

778
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: that is not handled well. Starting with Wanda. She is

779
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 2: the library clerk who Mary works with, and we see

780
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: her now and then we don't really get much of

781
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: a sense of her and Mary's working relationship. Then there's

782
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 2: a scene toward the end where Mary grabs Wanda by

783
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: the scruff of her neck and like slams her into

784
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 2: a bookcase and says something like, you're gonna help me, bitch.

785
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: Cut to Mary is making Wanda and some of her

786
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 2: other colleagues like research grad school for her, So it's

787
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: just like we know nothing about this character. And then

788
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: we see like Mary being violent and aggressive towards her,

789
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: so that's not great we have. This feels like another

790
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 2: example of Mary temporarily adopting a culture that she doesn't

791
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 2: belong to to seem like trendy or whatever. But we

792
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: meet this character when Mary goes to Renee's nightclub. Natasha

793
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: is black and queer, and Mary gets up and sort

794
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: of like dances with or next to Natasha, but it's

795
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 2: mostly just Mary's standing there as Natasha is voguing, and

796
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: once again it's just like Mary, like ballroom culture is

797
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: not yours, Like what this is not for you?

798
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 6: What are we doing here?

799
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: But that's also just like a thirty second scene, and

800
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 2: then we never see Natasha again. Then there's Howard, who

801
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: is a librarian who we also don't see much of

802
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: until the scene at the end when Mary is trying

803
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: to figure out how to go to grad school. We

804
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: learn a little bit about how Howard feels regarding like

805
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: libraries and academia and stuff like that, but it's a

806
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: very quick scene. We don't get much else from Howard.

807
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: And then there's Venus, the dancer at Rene's club who

808
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: vibes with Leo. Again, we don't learn much about her,

809
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 2: but there is this random beef between her and Mary

810
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: at the party scene toward the end, where Venus says

811
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: to Mary like, could you move your cigarette is bothering me?

812
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: And Mary replies very antagonistically, like get a last name

813
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: and then we'll talk. And it's just like, what is

814
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: this random? Like do you even know each other? Like

815
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: why are you being so antagonistic toward that?

816
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: I was like, this feels deleted, scene coded or just

817
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: straight up like bad. Improbably it was weird, weird, weird. Yeah,

818
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 3: I think that like that is like a consistent thing

819
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 3: throughout this movie where they're trying to capture this very

820
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: diverse party scene that existed at the time in the

821
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: locations where that was happening, but they are not giving

822
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 3: focus to the characters that make those parties what they were.

823
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: So it's like it feels like you get a very

824
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 3: surface look at New York queer culture, at ballroom culture

825
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: at all, of these scenes that existed at the time,

826
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: but you really just see them in a brief flash

827
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: in a way that makes Mary seem out of place,

828
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: and the characters, particularly the black characters, seem very like

829
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 3: there and gone. And again it's like, even with the

830
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: way that they had to make this, like why not

831
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 3: have a full character. If you want to have like

832
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 3: show this party scene, if you want to have ballroom

833
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 3: within the movie, then give us a character, give us

834
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: two characters, even although you know two is usually too much,

835
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 3: too much to us. Yes, but yeah, I think particularly

836
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 3: with black characters, it started to feel like it was

837
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 3: a repeating thing. And again, this movie was like praise

838
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 3: for its diversity at the time, and unfortunately probably it

839
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: did look more diverse than most movies at the time.

840
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 5: Well it structured funny too, because like similar to m stuff,

841
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 5: I think like the first impressions you get at these characters,

842
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 5: it's exciting, like you see black, queer people. Right from

843
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 5: the beginning of the movie. You see two black librarians

844
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 5: and a career that's very very white, and so I'm

845
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 5: inclined to say, yay, I'm excited to dig into this more.

846
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 5: And then nothing happens with them, yeah, or poor things

847
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 5: happen with them.

848
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the facade of diversity because you see black characters,

849
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 2: you see queer characters, you see immigrant characters, you see

850
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: a Latine character. With Leo, who is played by Ghirmo Diaz.

851
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 3: He's been on every TV show on the face of

852
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 3: the planet. His IMDBA is Wild.

853
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: Weeds, Girls, Law and Order, Scandal.

854
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 3: Like, etc. Every TV show that's all of them.

855
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 5: That's the best kind of career I think, to have

856
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 5: just to be everywhere.

857
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 3: It is pretty cool.

858
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's what appears to be a diverse cast,

859
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: but the inclusion and characterization of many of those characters

860
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: isn't particularly meaningful or thoughtful.

861
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 3: The cultural insensitivity towards Mustafa is the most egregious because

862
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: it seems like their heart is maybe not in the

863
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 3: right place. With how Mary's characterized, it does feel like,

864
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: you know, in terms of like, I don't know, there

865
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: are moments where it's like this movie's biting off more

866
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: than it can chew. If straight white woman has to

867
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 3: be at the center of it, I want to say,

868
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: it does seem like the director's heart is in the

869
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 3: right place. She wants to show a wide swath of

870
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 3: New York culture, but like she kind of can't with

871
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: the story she's created. It's a bummer. And and also

872
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 3: like you see so with with with other characters, you're like, oh,

873
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 3: this would this is this is a whole other movie.

874
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: You know, like there are certain stops at certain clubs

875
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 3: where you're like, let's stay I wish we could stay here,

876
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 3: could we get you know?

877
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, she knows so many interesting people. Yeah, but they're

878
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 5: kind of just there to make her interesting and you know,

879
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 5: let's be bad.

880
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, they're there to service her character more

881
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: than be characters themselves.

882
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: In terms of stuff I like about the movie, I

883
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 3: do like, Okay, so we have a messy, unlikable New

884
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 3: York girl protagonist. I'm a sucker for that. I like that.

885
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: I mean, she's, amongst other things, very twenty three years old.

886
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 3: She doesn't know what she wants to do. She's in

887
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 3: denial and defensive about just about everything. She has anxiety

888
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: about being around older women, which is a very interesting

889
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: dynamic that I don't think that I like understood about

890
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 3: myself when I was in my early twenties, where like

891
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 3: a lot of older women to her are cautionary tales

892
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 3: rather than people to talk to, and so I just

893
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 3: like part of what I think her dynamic with Judy

894
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 3: is very interesting that I think is like a strength

895
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 3: of the movie where they just do not get each other.

896
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 3: They're projecting like nobody's business at each other, and I

897
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 3: don't know, I think it's like a cool even though

898
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 3: both of these characters are pretty broad in the way

899
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 3: that they are painted, like everyone in this movie is

900
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: very broad, but there was more nuance in their relationship

901
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 3: than I was expecting, honestly, and I appreciated it.

902
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: This is not really a criticism, but I was just

903
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: curious about how Judy is Mary's godmother because Judy and

904
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: Mary's mother were friends once upon a time. We also

905
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: learned that Mary's mother passed away.

906
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 3: Right, which is like an element of Mary's character that

907
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 3: you goes kind of under explored, but you're like, oh,

908
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: she also like lost a parent very very young, and

909
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 3: like Matt, can have no other family that can lead

910
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 3: to party girl tendencies and like looking for community outside

911
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: of family in YadA YadA.

912
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: But the thing I was curious about is like Judy

913
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 2: does not seem to respect Mary's mother at all, so like,

914
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 2: why were they friends? And why did she agree to

915
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: be Mary's godmother?

916
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: I was so curious if that was a seed that

917
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 3: was cut or something, because I do again, it's like

918
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 3: that's a weirdly specific detail that like completely informs how

919
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: she treats like she's she's like getting out all of

920
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 3: her anger at this woman who is no longer alive

921
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 3: by tormenting her daughter while also feeling responsible for her.

922
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 3: And like that's a really complicated dynamic.

923
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, there seems to be something heavy maybe that happened there.

924
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 5: I mean that we know that like this one died

925
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 5: in a dui. Yeah, so maybe there's there is some

926
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 5: kind of grief that she's trying to process and and

927
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 5: that's the reason why she's sticking around with Mary book.

928
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 5: But again we're we're we're Philly and Blanks.

929
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and it's like a very complicated specific dynamic

930
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 3: to be Philly Good Blanks for as an audience, because

931
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 3: it did. I think, like similar to Mustafa, we get

932
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 3: way more detailed than I would have expected for Mary's mother,

933
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 3: where you know, most movies you sort of get like

934
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 3: Disney Prince, like you know, they're like she died when

935
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 3: she was young, and that's why she's weird. Now, Like

936
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 3: that's the story of so many young women in media,

937
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 3: but this is, like, we know, it's a very specific,

938
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 3: tragic circumstance, and Judy is taking it out. I mean,

939
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, poor Jewe. I feel for Judy and

940
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: also can be so judgmental and cruel and like she's

941
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: really she's.

942
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 5: Like painted her picture of Mary and it's it's hard

943
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 5: to see her getting out out of it.

944
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's and you know, that provides for a

945
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: nice arc at the end where Judy kind of finally

946
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 2: loosens up and she's like, yeah.

947
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 3: My god, daughter.

948
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: She's a party girl, but she's also a library girl,

949
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: and the two things can be true at once, and

950
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: so here's your job back.

951
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, And we do get like an element of Judy

952
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 5: seeming like she like regrets some kind of loss of

953
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 5: her youth or whatever in that scene where they meet

954
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 5: up on the bench and she's having the hot flash,

955
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 5: because she does kind of imagine like, oh, I know

956
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 5: what your night was like so care free and sow

957
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 5: this and so that, And I do wonder if there's

958
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 5: like a longing there in addition to her sort of

959
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 5: dismissal of that lifestyle, but.

960
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: She also says something like, you know, I know you

961
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 2: have so many friends, because at one point Judy like

962
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: extends an olive branch and says like, would you like

963
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 2: to have dinner with me? And I forget who else,

964
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 2: maybe it was like the librarians and clerics and stuff.

965
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 2: But Mary's just like, no, I'm going out, and Judy's like,

966
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: oh where, and She's like, I don't know yet. I

967
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: just know that I'm not going to dinner with you.

968
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 2: And so they're both dismissing each other and it you know,

969
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 2: there could be a generational component to it.

970
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 3: There could be just tell also very like they have

971
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 3: a very mother daughtery kind of antagonism about them too,

972
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 3: like yeah, I I'm glad you brought up the du

973
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 3: I think because it also ties in this movie. Another

974
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 3: thing that this movie like tackles with specificity but also

975
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 3: dismissal at the same time, which is like addiction and alcoholism,

976
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 3: where if I'm putting myself in Judy's head, I understand,

977
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't justify the cruelty and the judgment

978
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 3: which also does just objectively does not help. But like

979
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 3: her anxiety at seeing her friend's daughter who died in

980
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 3: a dui, you know, going out to parties all the time.

981
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: I understand that, like core, Like, it's not this is

982
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 3: not a character who's written in love, Like she's just

983
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 3: jealous and she hates young women without context and blah

984
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 3: blah blah. It's like we know the reasons and she

985
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: is like not able to quite see it or acknowledge

986
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 3: it or I don't know. It's like this combination of things.

987
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 3: And then you have the is it Renee Renee at

988
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 3: the club owner? Yeah, And and the way her story

989
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: is treated sort of undercuts that.

990
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 5: It's just I don't know, Yeah, it almost seems like

991
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 5: they were setting up these like two maternal figures in

992
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 5: a way, and one of them is sort of on

993
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 5: the path that her mom was and the other one isn't.

994
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 5: But then again, we don't really get to know her

995
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 5: name other than small bites, right, So it's.

996
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 3: Just another question mark don't love it moment.

997
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: And again, just to briefly go through those beats with

998
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 2: Renee and just reiterate that she's someone who is dealing

999
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 2: with an alcohol addiction, and that is played as a

1000
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 2: comedic beat almost every time. It's brought up where there's

1001
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 2: like the whole misunderstanding in the library and Renee thinks

1002
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: that Mary is there for an AA meeting, and so

1003
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 2: she walks into the meeting with Renee and everyone there

1004
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: is smoking cigarettes, and so Mary's coughing, even though we

1005
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 2: also see her smoking cigarettes, so it seems like she's

1006
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 2: a smoker, So like, why are you coughing?

1007
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's whatever it but and it's like

1008
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 3: it's so like it's like pick a Lane is like

1009
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 3: are you playing for laughs or not? I mean not

1010
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: that I'm like just play it for laughs obviously, Like

1011
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 3: that is an insensitive like that's whatever. Why so much

1012
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 3: comedy age is poorly But it's so weird that it

1013
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 3: happens that there is like one track in which there

1014
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 3: is like an unusual amount of nuance and another track

1015
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 3: where it's just the total opposite.

1016
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Because the way that scene culminates is everyone's

1017
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 2: smoking a cigarette. It's causing Mary to cough a lot,

1018
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 2: and then she says, I need a drink and then

1019
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: she like runs out, and it's probably that what she

1020
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: probably means is she needs a drink of water because

1021
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: she's coughing. But the joke is, oh no, this room

1022
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: full of people who were there for an AA meeting

1023
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: thinks she's about to fall off the wagon and go

1024
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 2: get a drink of alcohol for sure, for sure, Haha,

1025
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: isn't that funny? And then later on at the Mary's

1026
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 2: birthday party, like the surprise party, Renee is there and

1027
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: she thinks that Mary's on drugs and she keeps being like,

1028
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 2: oh no, what are you on? Oh no, you're hitting

1029
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: rock bottom. Oh my god, and her concern for Mary

1030
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: is once again played as a joke, because the whole

1031
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: thing is like she's misunderstanding what's going on, and isn't

1032
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: that funny. She's really overreacting. So the way all that

1033
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: was handled was like really bizarre to me.

1034
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: It is weird. I wanted to I don't know, like

1035
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 3: the amount of So this is Daisy Byer's or Dais

1036
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 3: Mayer's first movie. She directed it when she was twenty eight,

1037
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 3: I think, which is offensive to me, but I did

1038
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 3: want to say she I Once I learned more about

1039
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 3: her background, I was like, oh this is I mean,

1040
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 3: first of all, she was whatever, like yes, but like

1041
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 3: a very particular kind of nepo baby that I think

1042
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 3: helps you understand why she chose this story. So first

1043
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 3: of all, she is like, you know, not not like

1044
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 3: she is Mary, but like sounds like she probably has

1045
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 3: experiences similar to Mary, where she is like had financial

1046
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,479
Speaker 3: worries but not really because her family was fine, did

1047
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 3: run in these crowds, which is why she was able

1048
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 3: to get access to so many iconic spaces for her

1049
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 3: movies because she was calling in favors. But also that

1050
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 3: she is in fact the daughter of kind of an

1051
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 3: iconic party girl. She is the daughter of an actress

1052
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 3: and comedian Sasha von Schuler who plays Judy, who plays Yes.

1053
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 3: So it's like there is like a party girl legacy.

1054
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 5: Oh Judy was the party girl. Yeah, I mean in

1055
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 5: real life.

1056
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 3: It's kind of cool where it's like Sascha von Schuler

1057
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 3: was like a big time flapper and like art girl,

1058
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 3: and I just I thought that was cool. It's like

1059
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 3: that they're the first of all that they like collaborated.

1060
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 3: You're like, I don't know, it's so rare to find

1061
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 3: a Neppo baby story where you're like, you know what,

1062
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 3: I'm okay with this. It's it's like when I see

1063
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 3: Margaret Qualley, I'm just like, you know what, fine, I

1064
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 3: like it. I like it. I like that sort of

1065
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 3: generational thing. Other random stuff about this movie that make

1066
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 3: it very nineteen ninety five. This is the first movie

1067
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 3: that premiered on the internet, question mark yes, what Yes?

1068
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 3: And that like who knows how much electricity it took

1069
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: for that to happen.

1070
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 2: They could only the transmission was limited to black and white,

1071
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: so it wasn't even in color. Yeah, I read this

1072
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: to I'm pulling from, of course, scholarly Journal Wikipedia.

1073
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1074
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 4: The movie did.

1075
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: Have a theatrical release, I believe, But yeah, it did.

1076
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 3: Well well or made its money back, premiered at Sundance,

1077
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 3: made its money back.

1078
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it had an Internet premiere and was

1079
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 2: the first movie.

1080
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 3: To do so, which is kind of cool. I don't know,

1081
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 3: just everything about it is so nineties. Its strengths are

1082
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 3: very nineties. It's weaknesses or very nineties. Its message while enduring.

1083
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 3: I think it's very nineties because it's kind of like

1084
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 3: girl powery feminism of like you can go to a

1085
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 3: party and read a book, which is a lesson I like,

1086
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 3: but very much a lesson of its.

1087
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 2: Time, you know, and to get into the library of

1088
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 2: it all. And Liz let's go to the library.

1089
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 3: In foremost, Yeah, let's get into library and representation. There

1090
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 3: is that like Judy's feminist monologue about well, she starts

1091
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 3: out by berating and more or less slutshaming Mary. Judy's like,

1092
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 3: don't fuck in my library. Quit behitting so stupidly in

1093
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 3: you know, like diminishing your potential, and blah blah blah.

1094
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 2: Then she says Melville Dewey hired women his librarianes because

1095
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: he believed the job didn't require any intelligence. It was

1096
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 2: a woman's job, quote unquote. That means it's underpaid and undervalued.

1097
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 2: And then she goes on a rant about like literacy

1098
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: rates and people watching movies instead of reading books and

1099
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 2: how that's disgussting.

1100
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 3: Which is a very generational vibes. Yea, but I liked it.

1101
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 2: I liked it was fun monologue.

1102
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:46,919
Speaker 3: The last thing I wanted to say about Sasha von

1103
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 3: Schuler is she was, you know, kind of objectified pretty

1104
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 3: heavily in her early life, in her party girl days.

1105
01:02:54,600 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 3: But in the eighties she got her masters in social

1106
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: work and then worked for over ten years at an

1107
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 3: AIDS treatment center in Greenwich Village. So we have just

1108
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: like I don't know. I'm I'm I'm chalking it up

1109
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 3: as good NEPO, good NEPO mother daughter collab.

1110
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 2: But but Liz, tell us, what tell us your thoughts

1111
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 2: on the representation of library librarians. Yeah, et cetera.

1112
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 5: I think Judy toes the line of like stereotypical librarian

1113
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 5: a little bit are like old school librarian, but not totally.

1114
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 5: She never shushes anyone, which is revolutionary for that.

1115
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 2: I was shocked because Mary storms in all the time,

1116
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: screaming and no one ever says.

1117
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 5: And you know, her ideas about TV and stuff. Everything

1118
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 5: she says about Dewey and his added toward towards woman

1119
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 5: is true and has like larger implications with like women

1120
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 5: in librarianship. Even though it's like a female heavy field.

1121
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 5: You know, there is a big pay gap between men

1122
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 5: in the field and women in the field. I when

1123
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 5: I think of Dewey and what he thought of women

1124
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 5: in the library, I think of him as as unfortunately

1125
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 5: starting the sexy librarian trope in a way because he

1126
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 5: wanted to hire women, because he wants to look at

1127
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 5: beautiful women while he worked. But libraries are really definitely

1128
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 5: one of those feminized job that in that it's a

1129
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 5: service job, in that it's a provider job. Everything Judy

1130
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 5: feels about it is right. There's a level that we

1131
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 5: want to like uplift the job past that, but also

1132
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's like wrapped up in its legacy

1133
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 5: a little bit. Yeah, but you think she's a good

1134
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 5: I think she's a pretty good character. That to me,

1135
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 5: what I see when I when I was watching Party Girl,

1136
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 5: with the librarian ship of it all, is something that

1137
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 5: kind of minicked my path was that, like when you

1138
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 5: become a librarian, it becomes like your entire thing, Like

1139
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 5: I'm a librarian now, and it like infiltrates your life.

1140
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 5: It's and it's hard to like separate being a librarian

1141
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 5: from yourself from yourself. And I do think Judy is

1142
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 5: stuck there a little bit. And I do wonder if

1143
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 5: the sequel to Party Girl is Library Girl, when like

1144
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 5: she's trying to reclaim some of that of her old

1145
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 5: self that Mary's lost because she goes full librarian by

1146
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 5: the end of the movie. She's like, no fun tights,

1147
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 5: put the hair up, put the glasses.

1148
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 2: On hair and a type on glasses.

1149
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a new person now. Yeah, And that feels

1150
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 5: true true to the career as well.

1151
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, I want I want more librarian movies and like,

1152
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 3: are there okay, here's another not to put you on

1153
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 3: the spot, but are there other movies that, like to

1154
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 3: this degree, are in librarian cinematic canon? Like, are there

1155
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 3: others that people are like, Oh, if you're a librarian,

1156
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 3: you have seen this movie, whether you like it or not.

1157
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 5: There's not a huge amount of librarian representation, and I

1158
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 5: think that I think in some ways every library in

1159
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 5: the librarian and media is like you love them and

1160
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 5: you hate them because they're either like super kind of

1161
01:05:58,560 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 5: a superhero.

1162
01:05:59,400 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 6: You know.

1163
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 5: I think of like Buffy or like Rachel Weissen The Mummy,

1164
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 5: where we kind of hold them up here. But there's

1165
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 5: a very different part of being a librarian, which I

1166
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 5: do think they kind of do in Party Girl, where

1167
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 5: it's it's not a it's just an everyday job. I mean, like,

1168
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 5: it's a public building, You're going to clean up shit.

1169
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 5: At some point, it's you, people scream at you. And

1170
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 5: which is the face that you don't see in in

1171
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 5: the movies as much so to me, I like part

1172
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 5: of her for that reason. There's also a great Australian

1173
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 5: show called The Library or Librarians. I think that, like

1174
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 5: the very first scene of it is the library director

1175
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 5: scraping like shit out of the drop box, and I

1176
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 5: was like, wow, this is but you know, we also

1177
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 5: love our little superhero librarians because well who doesn't lie.

1178
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 5: I feel like their job is a little is a

1179
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 5: little bit of a superhero job heroic.

1180
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1181
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially, I mean I want to see I don't know,

1182
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 3: because there is a world and this is like where

1183
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 3: I'm this isn't a criticism, this is just like wow,

1184
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 3: there are so many different ways this that this story

1185
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 3: could have gone, or like other fun library based stories

1186
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 3: where I feel like this movie now would be like

1187
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 3: basically just fighting against a library's closure by a fascist government.

1188
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to like put on a big benefit

1189
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 2: show to save the library.

1190
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 5: She has to throw a party.

1191
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to throw the like library rave or

1192
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 3: whatever to save the library. But I was, I just

1193
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 3: think it's funny. I mean, it's like I get I'm

1194
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 3: sure that it like helps keep things like appropriately low

1195
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 3: stakes in a way that it's like okay, we could

1196
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 3: shoot that. But her main struggle as a library and

1197
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 3: being learning the Dewey decimal system was very funny to

1198
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 3: me of just like how both high and low stakes

1199
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 3: it is at the same time.

1200
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think that there's something too like her

1201
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 5: learning this like organizational system is like how she's going

1202
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 5: to put her a life in order, because I do

1203
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 5: find sometimes that when outside life is like chafing me,

1204
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 5: if I go to the nonfiction section and reorganize it,

1205
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, at least I can fix something. Yeah,

1206
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 5: And so you know, librarian is maybe the perfect job

1207
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 5: for Mary in this journey in that regard, and you

1208
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 5: see little glimpses of it in her after her outside

1209
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 5: life too, with like her like fashion organization and.

1210
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 2: Her gen onto that right. I missed that the first

1211
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 2: time I watched the movie, but on my second watch,

1212
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 2: she gets frustrated with her friend Derek, who's like messing

1213
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,520
Speaker 2: up the order of her genes that she had very meticulously.

1214
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:37,560
Speaker 2: She's like, they're in order and he's like they're just

1215
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 2: jeans and she's like, yeah, they're jeans and they're in order.

1216
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:45,680
Speaker 2: So she already like they planted that organizational skill in

1217
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: her early on, and it was fun Parker Posey, So

1218
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 2: this movie, you know, made less than a million dollars

1219
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 2: at the box office when it came out.

1220
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 4: But it sounds like.

1221
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 3: Parker Posey's I like, this is like when is her.

1222
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out was this before? Was this

1223
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 3: like firmly in the middle of her like art house

1224
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 3: girl era, or was it like one of her because

1225
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 3: she she'd already been dazed and confused? Okay, post dazed

1226
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 3: and confused, Parker Posy got it.

1227
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 2: Was this maybe one of her first like starring roles

1228
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,719
Speaker 2: because she has a baseball part in that movie.

1229
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1230
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Anyway, it's become a cult classic. The point is

1231
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 2: many people now are familiar with this movie and love it,

1232
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 2: and people will approach her. Librarians will approach her who

1233
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 2: are fans of this movie, and they tell her that

1234
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 2: Party Girl made them want to be a librarian.

1235
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 5: That's very cute.

1236
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 3: That's so sweet. Definitely, that's really sweet. Yeah, And then

1237
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like we don't even really need

1238
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,839
Speaker 3: to say this. Parker Posy iconic.

1239
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 2: I'm wearing my Josie and the Pussycats shirt right now.

1240
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 3: One of the movie ever, one of her best, along

1241
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 3: with like any Christopher guest movie She's in net for sure,

1242
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 3: like she's just so good. I don't really love the

1243
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 3: White Lotus, but fun performance. Anyways, I always forget she's

1244
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 3: in that she well she's just in one season.

1245
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the New War season.

1246
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know. Did anyone else have other stuff

1247
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 3: to touch on for Party Girl?

1248
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 2: My last thing is really quick. There's a part where

1249
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 2: Judy and Wanda are training Mary on the Dewey decimal

1250
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 2: system and they're shaming Mary for being dyslexic and being like,

1251
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 2: you're so bad at learning this system. You have dyslex together,

1252
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,480
Speaker 2: like being really awful about.

1253
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 3: It, which does feel also very nineties for sure, Like

1254
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 3: I was like, casual ableism for learning disabilities feels very

1255
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 3: nineties for.

1256
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 2: Sure, very reflective of real life at the time, and

1257
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 2: also still today. It's something that maybe someone could have challenged.

1258
01:10:57,840 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 3: No one does.

1259
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 2: It just goes unchallenged. And again that's also you know,

1260
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,639
Speaker 2: like things going unchallenged is also representative of real life.

1261
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 2: But when it's a movie and you can like decide

1262
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 2: to include something or not include something, you could just

1263
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 2: have what a Howard walk by and be like, hey,

1264
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 2: don't say that.

1265
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, Howard seems pretty cool, right, you know.

1266
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 2: But he's also is he I forget what his whole

1267
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: deal is. He either hates or likes public libraries.

1268
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 5: He's My impression is that Howard is a public librarian.

1269
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 5: He's the one who says to Mary that, like, it

1270
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 5: doesn't matter where you go to school, like, just try

1271
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 5: to save money and get done as quick as you can. Right,

1272
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 5: So to him, I think he's he's definitely more of

1273
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 5: the people's librarian, whereas like the collegiate librarian there, who's like, well,

1274
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 5: first of all, you went to Columbia, right, you know,

1275
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 5: she's representing the more elitist librarian for sure.

1276
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And she's like, I hate living in a city.

1277
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 2: It's yucky. I want to live in a small town

1278
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 2: western Massachusetts or something.

1279
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 3: And you're just like, well you should. It's much cheaper.

1280
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 3: Like anytime someone's like I'm trapped and it's really I'm like,

1281
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 3: get the fuck out, like you, there's no, it's really

1282
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 3: expensive to live here.

1283
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, but that's all I had. Yeah, anyone else?

1284
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:19,440
Speaker 5: Oh I don't think I have the Nathan else.

1285
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, yeah, that's all I got. This movie does

1286
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:25,759
Speaker 3: pass the Bechdel's hoast. We said that in the opening

1287
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 3: of the episode. But but how does it fare on

1288
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 3: the one true metric, the Bechdel Cast nipple scale.

1289
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 2: Yes, where we rate the movie on a scale of

1290
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 2: zero to five nipples based on how it fares examining

1291
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 2: the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I think maybe

1292
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 2: like a three something like that. It has some some

1293
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 2: very nineties elements to it, as far as the white

1294
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 2: protagonists over racism, which.

1295
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 3: Mostly played her laughs.

1296
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 2: She does not make any movement on precisely other things

1297
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 2: of that nature as we've talked about. But I do

1298
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 2: appreciate that you do have like mediocre woman visibility, or

1299
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 2: like woman who's figuring shit out visibility, and like not.

1300
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 3: Entirely likable visibility.

1301
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 2: Right, Like, she's kind of a fuck up in some regards,

1302
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: and that is relatable. So you know, she we see

1303
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 2: her getting into trouble, we see her being aimless, we

1304
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 2: see her being eventually good at her job, but being

1305
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 2: really bad at it at the jump, so you know, again,

1306
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 2: just sort of like relatable life things.

1307
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 4: So I appreciate that.

1308
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 2: I'll give it three nipples, and I'm gonna give I mean,

1309
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 2: Parker Posy, she simply must get one, but I'm gonna

1310
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 2: give my other two nipples to the I kept calling

1311
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:59,799
Speaker 2: them the upa lumpa guys. Two guys who were wearing

1312
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 2: the green wigs or they have like long dyed green hair,

1313
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 2: and I feel like they were wearing orange. I'm not

1314
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 2: sure if they were, but I was just like color

1315
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 2: scheme going on.

1316
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 5: They were like Thing one and Thing two vibes for.

1317
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 3: Me, okay, okay, yes, yes, yeah.

1318
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 2: So I was just like, who are these people? They

1319
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 2: show up in random scenes, we know nothing about them,

1320
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,839
Speaker 2: but I was like, those are my oomple lump of friends,

1321
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 2: So they get two of my nipples.

1322
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna meet you at three. That

1323
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 3: feels That feels right?

1324
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:30,679
Speaker 6: Uh.

1325
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 3: For this movie, I really enjoyed this movie. I feel

1326
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 3: like it is like such a cool I don't know,

1327
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 3: I just I'm really into watching first Features right now.

1328
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,719
Speaker 3: This is a really cool one. I love the mother

1329
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 3: daughter collab. I like, I think that that's really fun.

1330
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 3: But the the the shortcomings of this movie, especially as

1331
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 3: time goes on, are quite glaring, particularly with I'm just

1332
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 3: like justice for Mustapha. I really hope that he truly

1333
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 3: just sort of soft ghosts her after this and moves

1334
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 3: on with his life. Gets his teaching degree. Maybe they

1335
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 3: reconnect as friends down the line. Who knows. I just

1336
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 3: want better for him, but I also want the best

1337
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 3: for Mary. I hope she continues on her journey. Like

1338
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 3: it's hard not to have a soft spot for this

1339
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 3: character because she is such a fuck up in a

1340
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 3: way that like it's hard not to root for. Yeah,

1341
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 3: I guess. Yeah, I'm gonna go three nipples for all

1342
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 3: the reasons we've discussed. You gotta give one to Parker Posey,

1343
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give one to Daisy Mayor, and I'm gonna

1344
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 3: give one too Gear Modiaz as Leo because he was

1345
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 3: really hauling boxes of records everywhere he went, and it

1346
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 3: just seems like that job used to be much harder.

1347
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 3: So shout out to that characters. Yeah, what about you, Liz.

1348
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, I think I'll join you in the three

1349
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 5: nipple ranking. I agree with yeah, everything you said. I

1350
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,759
Speaker 5: actually think the sort of be flawed woman is across

1351
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 5: the board. Every Field character has her ups and downs,

1352
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 5: which I do love that, and I do think the

1353
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,759
Speaker 5: library representation is great. I'm going to give a nipple

1354
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 5: to Mary, I'm going to give them to Judy. I'm

1355
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 5: going to give one to Renee, who I really hope

1356
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 5: had a better day than any datest movie. I just

1357
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 5: try to live her live, run the hottest club in

1358
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 5: New York. But I would like to take a step further,

1359
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 5: if you will allow it, and I'd like to take

1360
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 5: Melville Dewey's nipples away from him. And I'd like to

1361
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:33,799
Speaker 5: give one to Wanda and one to Howard.

1362
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 3: That's great love that, Oh, yes, and yes, I would

1363
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 3: like to give honor all of my nipples honorarily to

1364
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 3: the Bastards. Episodes about Melville Dewey, if you've got the

1365
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,839
Speaker 3: stomach for it, pretty pretty brutal stuff.

1366
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 5: It's tough to listen to, but it's a good episode.

1367
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 3: It's a good couple of episodes. Judy didn't cover the

1368
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 3: half of it, all right. So that is Party Girl

1369
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five. Happy birthday to Party Girl, Liz. Thank

1370
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,600
Speaker 3: you so much for joining us, Thank you for having me.

1371
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 3: This was the light bol absolutely. Where can we find

1372
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 3: your work? Where can we get your book? Tell us everything?

1373
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 5: You can find me online anywhere you're online at Cosbrarian

1374
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,639
Speaker 5: co O S B R A R I A N

1375
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 5: and you can get my book Fucked Up fairy tales

1376
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 5: wherever you most like to buy books. Hopefully you're local Indie,

1377
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 5: certainly you can request your librarian to stock it in

1378
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 5: their library or wherever the hell you want to buy

1379
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:30,840
Speaker 5: a book.

1380
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 3: Please get mine, Helly, Please, congratulations on your book.

1381
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1382
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 3: And you can find us in all the regular places,

1383
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 3: mostly Instagram at Bechdelcast, and of course you can follow

1384
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 3: our Patreon aka Matreon. Five dollars a month gets you

1385
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 3: two bonus episodes every single month, as well as a

1386
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 3: backlog that goes back over two hundred episodes at this point.

1387
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 3: If you're running out of main feed stuff where you

1388
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 3: want to just hear us kind of goof it off

1389
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 3: even more than we do on the main feed, head

1390
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 3: over there and check out the Matreon great community of friends.

1391
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 3: And when you come to our live shows, you get

1392
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 3: a free button unless we run out, and then we

1393
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 3: give you a normal button something else. Yeah, just a

1394
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:17,839
Speaker 3: little peek behind the curtains.

1395
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with that, should we order some falafel with

1396
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 2: hot sauce, a side of babaganooshe and a seltzer.

1397
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 3: That actually sounds really good right now?

1398
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? All right, let's go.

1399
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:38,719
Speaker 3: Bye the Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted

1400
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 3: and produced by Me, Jamie Loftus.

1401
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 2: And Me Caitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by

1402
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 2: Sophie Lichtermann.

1403
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 3: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever Heard of Them? That's

1404
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 3: Me and our logo and merch and all of our

1405
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 3: artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever Heard

1406
01:18:56,439 --> 01:18:59,600
Speaker 3: of Her? Oh My God? And our theme song by

1407
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 3: the Way, composed by Mike Kaplan.

1408
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 2: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.

1409
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 3: Iconic and especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Ascevedo.

1410
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash

1411
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 2: Spectelcast