WEBVTT - Episode 10: Putter Fitting Principles 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from Ping, They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.120 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:06.600 hit any shot I kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.640 Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.000 That is Marty Jerts and Marty You're in the Ping 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.759 Putting Lab, which is good for today because, you know what, 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.639 I think it's time to talk about the thing people 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.080 don't like to practice, the thing people don't like to 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.040 talk about and focus on, but the most important part 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.000 of golf, and that is in fact, rolling the rock 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.520 on the greens. Putting is instrumental in good or bad 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.000 rounds for every single golfer, no matter their handicap. 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:42.879 Yeah, absolutely, Shane. I mean it's like putting's one of 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.640 those things where I mean the everyday golfer might not 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.120 be able to hit a t shot like Cameron Champ, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.680 you know, but for one hole in one round, you 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.960 can output the PGA Tour player, you know. And it's 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.040 the most variable skill. I think that's what makes putting 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.520 very tough. Like some days you could be. I mean 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.440 even on the PGA Tour. I mean, I mean look 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.440 at Scottie Scheffler lately, right, I mean, or these guys 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.640 out there that are having like high variants in putting. 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.920 Ball striking can stay consistent. Your putting can be very, 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.240 very variable, And I think that's what weighs on the 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:16.640 psychology of the golfer. 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.400 Yeah, I mean it's again, you can do so many things. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.319 You get on the green and it's like your mindset changes. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.000 It's a different skill set. I mean the golf swing 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.600 and power and finesse and cut the ball or hook 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.000 the ball, and then you get on the greens and 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.039 it's just about get it in and you can put crosshanded, 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:34.640 you can cut, you can putt with a long putter, 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.400 you can arm lock. You can do so many different 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.800 variations of rolling the rock. It's just which one gets 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.840 the ball in the hole the fastest. What's your relationship 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.480 been like over the years with putting. Do you consider 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.160 yourself a good putter, a mediocre putter, a bad putter 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.360 at times? Like have you messed with a lot of 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.760 different iterations of putting? What's been your relationship with this 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:56.400 part of the game. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.840 Man Shane, I feel like I'm at a therapist or something. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:04.400 I asked you that question, but I bet every golfer 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.560 would have that reaction. You know, you start asking me 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.840 that question. I mean again, like, oh man, I remember 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.640 my highs and my lows. I think I'm a streaky 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.880 I mean sadly, I would say I'm like a very 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.200 streaky putter. I think when I'm putting, when I'm putting good. 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.080 I remember around last year my home course over a wildfire. 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.400 I shot sixty two and I made everything, and putting 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.040 is so easy. I had the line, the speed, the reads, 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.680 everything like perfect. I was like, well this, I've got 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.040 putting salt, and then like two weeks later, I'm putting terrible. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.120 So yeah, I think over the years, I've really tried 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.480 to improve and study and bring in I think today 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.720 we can have a little conversation with that marriage of like, 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.080 you know, the art of putting and the science of putting. 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:47.880 I mean, I bet I tried to improve the things 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.320 you can try to be better at day to day, 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.000 and the big one is like green reading and targeting strategy. 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.160 So I kind of think of these buckets and putting 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.800 like green reading, targeting, strategy. Then there's your your start 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.160 line and your speed, and that's where we can really 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.040 influence that with putter fitting and which putter you're playing. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.120 So I've tried to get better at the green reading 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.320 side so that I know this other stuff is going 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:10.200 to vary day to day. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.000 When you're talking to an average player that comes into 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.000 the putting lab and has questions about their putting, or 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.040 they're looking for a new putter, or they're wanting to 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.680 get fit into a putter. Are there questions that you 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.040 guys like to ask off the bat just to get 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.240 a feel for what they think about their putting, because 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.360 we give away a lot of secrets about our golf 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.720 games by simply getting questions asked, like you said about 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.480 laying on the couch or I feel like I'm in 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.880 a therapy session. You know, I'm one of those people 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.480 like I've always considered myself a streaky putter as well, 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.760 just like what you're saying, Marty. And then you'll talk 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.880 to your buddies and they go, oh, man, you're a 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:45.640 great putter, and you go, yes, Well, if this guy 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.320 thinks I'm a good putter, why do I think I'm 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.800 a streaky putter right, Like, there's questions that we can 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.080 ask or conversations that we can have that can explain 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:54.760 what type of putter certain people are. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.240 Yeah, absolutely, Shane. I mean, one thing we see in 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.560 the statistics is that, you know, know, my bad putting round. 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.760 I mean why I played the Phoenix Open. The first 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.440 round I literally was the worst I've ever putt it, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.320 and I was minus four strokes gained. 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:10.560 And I'm seeing. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.160 Scotti, Shuffler and some of these other guys on the 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.320 tour be minus four strokes game once a while. I'm like, 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.320 hey man, that must feel really bad to them. So 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.520 my minus four strokes gained though, is still would be 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.560 putting like a single like a good single digital handicapper, you. 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:24.920 Know what I mean. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.680 So there's there's that relativity that happens with skill, and 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.080 that not only applies to t shots, but that applies 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.880 to putting as well. Someone comes into the lab, we 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.880 start wanting to help them improve their putting, and that's 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.440 our ultimate goal and we can really do that through 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.760 putter fitting is ask some of those questions that like, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.480 you know, what are their strengths and weaknesses? Are they better? 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.680 Are they you know, good at lag? Putting or not. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.760 Do they struggle with short puts or not? Do they 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.320 tend to miss more left or more right or not? 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.040 And not everybody knows the right answers to those questions, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.360 but you can at least get to kind of again, 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.200 you'll give you some clue, Shane. And that's what fitting 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.679 is all about. You're you're kind of building this mountain 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.800 of evidence to get to the final solution that can 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.280 give you some clues into what might be going on 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.039 with that player or to their inner psychology that you 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.679 can really help them with. And then we start layering 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.040 on some of the science measurements. So the other good 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.720 news is that some people, a lot of people are 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.559 tracking their putting stats. Again, we've kind of talked about 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.320 that in a few of our previous pods. Is like, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.440 where can you kind of marry in the right way. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.560 You don't want to go all stats, you know on everything. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.320 You want to have that interview with the player, ask 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.960 them those questions. But if you can also look at 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.600 their stats and corroborate or compare contrasted too, you can 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.560 start to get a more click clear picture of where 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.520 we might be going and where we can really help 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:46.279 them Marty. 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.000 The the kind of the iterations of fittings. It really 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.240 fascinates me because I mean, I wasn't, you know, playing 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.240 competitive golf, or wasn't old enough when it was, you know, 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.320 per Simmon Wooden Head. But I was, you know, in 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.520 high school and to college when they weren't interchangeable shafts, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.640 you know. I mean, you guys would have fifty drivers 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.080 on the range, and if you went an X shaft 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.000 like this, that had to be glued into that head. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:10.960 And if you wanted a stiff shaft light with this, 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:12.360 it had to be glued in the head. I mean, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.200 you couldn't just flip them in and flip them out. 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.680 And obviously all of that stuff has changed now it's 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.520 gone into irons and now you guys have more scientific 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.520 and AI technology to help you guys in terms of fittings. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.720 We've talked about gapping on this podcast already. When did 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.880 putting When did the science of fitting players with putters 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.960 kind of become a thing for paying Because I am 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.680 imagining years ago it was we have these four models, 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.400 and these are kind of what you can go out 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.640 and use. And now obviously behind you, I mean that 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.839 what is it granted or marble behind you, and it's 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:45.800 I mean, even if there was an earthquake, it wouldn't 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.800 even move like that is correct. There's so much science 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:53.760 involved in fitting players on greens that maybe wasn't available 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:54.920 fifteen or twenty years ago. 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.239 Yeah, definitely, and we're on this journey I would say 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:02.120 fifteen years fifteen years plus we've we at ping have 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.480 really done a deep dive into the science of putter fitting. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.720 But I think it's important for the golfer to know 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.520 that it's not all that you know because all those 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.200 the psychological aspect, choosing the right model, falling love with 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.760 the model, using your intuition, these things are still very important. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.800 So we don't want to tip the scales of all science. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:22.920 We kind of again kind of going to that back 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.440 to that ven diagram approach. It's like, you want to 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.560 marry the art and science together, and that's ultimately what 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.240 we're trying to do Shane. But you know, we we 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.200 wanted to ask a lot of questions around putter fitting, 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.600 just like we do with driver fitting and iron fitting 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.520 and things of that nature. It's like, what are the 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.320 most important aspects of putter fitting and putter performance? What 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.640 are the biomechanics, and then how can we develop fitting 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.760 protocols and tools for our fitters and customers to make 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:56.000 better decisions. So we've identified some of the big staple things. Obviously, 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:57.840 you want to get into the right length of putter, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.080 and you talked about adjustability on irons and woods. We 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.400 have a couple We've had a couple of solutions in 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.120 the last five, six, seven years where we can tell 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.760 uscope the length of the putter with our adjustable length. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:11.880 I had an answer, Oh, I had a scott I 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.240 had a Scottsdale. I mean I had to have used 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.840 it right when that adjustability of the putter was available. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:19.560 I have it. I have it in my golf close 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.040 are right here. I probably used it for like six years. Yeah, 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.680 but I love the fact that depending on kind of 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.080 how I'm feeling that day or that week, or even 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.840 sometimes with the shoes you're wearing, you could adjust the 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.160 putter a little bit higher. Yeah, totally. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.600 I mean we've we've seen on the PGA Tour. I 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.280 think at the US Open a little bit ago, some 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:40.880 of the players were talking about, oh, I had to 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:42.800 trim my putter down a quarter of an inch. Now, 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:44.760 let's say you're the everyday golfer. You got to go 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:46.600 to the shop, right, get a new grip, you gotta 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.240 do all this stuff. If you have adjustable link putter, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:48.719 that's just. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.560 The screw and there it is. I think there are 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.439 coperations of that. It was very, very cool. But so 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.320 I would say one of the keys to a putter 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.319 for me is I'm coming in there and I want 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.319 to look at something I like to look at. And 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.560 I'm sure you get people that come into the lab 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.679 and they go, I'm like an answer style putter or 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.120 I like a mallet style. And how hard is it 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.640 to change that for a player if through the process 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.439 of fitting you see more success in a model that 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.920 maybe they're not married to when they walk in the door. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.360 Yeah, that shame. Where we can really use data is 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.720 kind of this this mountain of evidence to help help 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:30.199 the player. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:30.600 Right. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.160 But that's the number one thing I think you nailed 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:34.880 it is when when folks come in, they got to 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.559 fall in love with the model of the putter. And 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.960 so the science side of putter fitting and the most 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.280 important principle outside of length we talked about and lingle, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.400 which you know are very important. We don't ignore those. 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.800 Is getting the right what we call stroke type of 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.920 the putter, and that's based on this is like this 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:54.719 is like I'm holding the pen right here, right in 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.400 my hands for those listening, and I go to sign 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.640 my name and I'm going to sign it in a 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.679 certain Your signature is your signature, and the same thing 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.320 is for putting. So if you sign your name super quick, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.640 you would do better with a lightweight pen. Right, if 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.520 you sign your name really slow, you want to get 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.920 that super heavy pin. So this is kind I'm oversimplifying it, 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.600 but there's this biomechanics there where we want to use 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.559 the weight of the putter and fit that to the 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.440 player's tempo. And then the other big one that comes 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.480 even before that is we based on how much somebody 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:32.200 put applies torque. So I want the listener to pretend 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.400 like they're have a GoPro camera on and we fix 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.120 it right on the end of the putter and we're 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.040 looking down the shaft at the putter face, and how 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:44.240 much torque or twisting the golfer applies with their hands 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.920 is a major lever that we want to marry up to. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.439 How much basically toe hang there is on the putter, 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.320 and if we can marry those two things together, magic 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.079 things happen with repeatability of your putting stroke. You're not 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.439 fighting it, so to speak, in your putting stroke, and 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.640 that's the number one thing. So we want to kind 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:08.359 of marry the headweight stroke type and then have options 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:12.280 in model styles which are blades, mid mallets, mallets, all 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.720 kinds of alignment archetypes we could talk about, and then 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.480 marry those two things together, right, And that's kind of 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.440 again I talked about this kind of this pyramid approach 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.280 where we kind of build up. We want to build 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.280 all those things and then merge them together, and then 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.280 ultimately a lot of time shame, we'll get down to 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.439 having like two or three different models that fit the 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:35.600 fitting characteristics from a from a biomechanics, tempo, stroke type standpoint, 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:37.880 and then we want to go out and maybe play 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:39.800 a game on the putting green and see which ones 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.679 do better out outside of the lab environment that we 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.640 take them into the real world, create an encore simulation 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.360 and kind of have go through a game like fitting outside. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.920 I want to know how many people pause the podcast 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.719 and then sign their name and thought, is this pin 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.400 the right weight? I've never thought about this before. Marty, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.120 You're a true freak by a by faked about the 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.199 weight of the pen in terms of your speed of 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.600 your signature. But I think that's why you are who 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.600 you are and what you do. I've been very impressed 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.040 with Iping, with what you guys have done at Ping 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.920 and Yes, in terms of giving people the option of 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.960 getting fit in the lab with iping, but also having 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.360 an option to send it to somebody at their home 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.680 and having them go through that process. When did iping start? 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.200 And could you talk people through how iping works? Because 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.320 it is going back to the signature and the pen weight. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.840 It is simplifying all the things you're saying to basically 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.040 five putts for a player. Yep. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.679 Yeah, So kind of an interesting story on iping. So 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.480 I went to the Carrail School of Minds and mechanical 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.319 Engineer and we did a project where we remember in 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.599 a lab project where we hooked up these sensors to 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.120 a mountain bike and we went out and rode the 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.800 mountain bike around campus and got all this data and 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.280 brought it back in and we analyzed it. And in 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:59.679 this sensor are our measurement device, the micro electronic measurements 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.920 device called memes, which are accelerometers and gyroscopes and gps, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.440 and they allowed you to take all these cool measurements 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.120 to how much the handlebars rotate, how much you're going 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.760 like this, and so fast forward. That was in two 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:15.839 thousand and you know two when I graduated from this 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.199 so fast forward tore like I forget the exact year, 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.400 but is around two thousand and eight nine ten. It's 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.720 when the iPod came out, right, and then they launched 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.400 like a second or third generation that was built for 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.640 playing video games. And so that's when Apple added gyroscopes, 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.320 which you allow you to very precisely measure the rotation. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.520 This is like y'all pitch and roll on an airplane, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.079 the rotation. So I actually was like, holy Molly, I 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.440 wonder if we could measure use this to measure how 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.320 much rotation you have on a putting stroke. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.240 So this is going back to your This is going 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:48.760 back to college days for you. I mean, this is 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.640 literally stuff you used in college now getting applied once 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.600 almost the technology caught up to what you guys had 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.480 done on the bikes exactly. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.520 It's kind of that thing like eventually your cell phone 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.560 will do every thing and we're kind of we're still 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.839 on that journey, right, So yeah, once they add the gyroscopes. 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.480 I cutted up a three D printed like a little 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.240 snap on cradle to a putter, put it on, printed 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.600 on our printer. I remember doing this at home, printed 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.120 on our three D printer, snapped it on, uh, downloaded 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:18.679 an app where we could get like the raw day 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.560 a sensor data. Took some putting strokes. I was like, oh, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.320 this might be able to do it. The math got 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:25.840 really hard for me to figure it out. So that's 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.680 where I had my colleague, doctor Eric Hendrickson do the 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.160 math to start calculating, Okay, how much face rotation can 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.960 we get, tempo, can we get liingle and all those things? 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.000 And sure enough it worked. And so we've still been 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.560 using iping. We've continued to develop it and what it does. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.360 It allows you to see things in the putting stroke 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.320 that even the most skilled fitter or skilled player cannot 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.480 see with the naked eye, Like you cannot We've we've 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.480 actually tested this. You cannot predict tempo. Somebody can be 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.680 like a fast total time but a slow tempo ratio, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.080 and it kind of tricks your brain like you can't 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:07.720 do it, or somebody can have a very inside path 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.720 but not rotate the face a lot, and they would 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.120 still be better off with a like a more face 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.040 balanced putter, or somebody can have I think tiger woodstroke 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.400 is kind of like this, a more of a straightish 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.000 path but a lot of face rotation. Okay, so they 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.920 put a lot of torque on the putter. So these 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.400 things you can't see with the naked eye. That's where 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.160 the tools come in. And then iping allows us to 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.960 measure measure repeatability of your putting stroke, which is something 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.160 so key to solving for and putting. You don't necessarily 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.600 need to chase a two or average number for stroke 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.360 type or tempo or or you name it. You want 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.840 to kind of find what you're gonna be able to 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.600 repeat the most, and then we incentivize that in the 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:50.400 fitting process. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.640 So again I mean trying to simplify this to what 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.960 you've said in terms of what the person is going 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.960 to expect to see. Is basically, it's an iPod touch 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.120 that you click onto the shaft of your putter and 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.000 you're hitting five balls with that, and it does it 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.080 does it test three or four things? How many things? 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.800 Is it? Kind of testing as you're going through those processes. 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.520 Yeah, so I think we at the core we're measuring 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.480 five main things. We're measuring a few other things in 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:21.960 the background, but we're measuring your your setup shaftlean, so 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.000 we can actually get a measurement for how consistently you 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.960 lean the shaft that's your handle forward or handle back. 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.320 We measure your setup liingal and then we also calculate 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.280 that at impact right so we can measure we can 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.240 compare those two things. That has a lot to do 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.520 with getting the right length and lie of the putter, 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.960 make sure the optics are good for you. We need 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.520 to tweak, set up, position, things of that nature. Then 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.640 we measure how much the face rotates on the backstroke 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:52.360 and forward stroke, and that's strongly correlated with how much 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.240 toe down you should play in your putter, and again 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.680 you can't see that with the naked eye. Then we 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.600 measure your tempo, that's your time of backstroke by time 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:05.280 of forward stroke. A faster tempo player will generally but 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.680 not always, do better with a lighter headway putter. Slower 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:13.040 tempo generally do better with the heavier putter. And then 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.080 we measure a missing one in their Shane, we also 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.240 measure Yeah, no, I think I got it because loft 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.719 and live those were those were those are the other 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:22.800 two variables. 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.040 Yeah, mixed in there. I mean I've done both iterations this, Marny. 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.000 I've had the one sent to my house and got 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:29.960 to do it right behind where I'm at kind of 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.960 on my mat, and then i had one in the 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.800 lab as well. And I'm always just so fascinated by 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:37.760 you know, You're you're seeing it through the processes of 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.800 different putters, and you're getting to see in real time 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.840 with a score, which again, like we're simple beings here, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.560 I mean we're golfers. Like scoring is all we're really 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.159 looking for, right, I mean, once you shoot today, how 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.840 many greens did you hit? How are your putting stats? 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.440 How'd you drive the golf ball? You guys have put 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.680 this into a score for players. I mean there's a 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.119 leader board to your right right now. Some of the 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.159 best numbers. Shout out to my buddy RJ who's on 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.440 that board as an amateur and one of the better 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.119 putting numbers you guys have ever had. But I mean 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.480 there's a literal score that will show you where you 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.880 kind of sit in terms of handicap by how your 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.280 putting stroke works sufficiently and repeatability wise. 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.040 Yeah, so when we when we developed EPING, and this 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.199 is like the early days of launch monitors. It's kind 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:21.920 of like a launch monitor you're putting is like, Okay, 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:23.560 you get data, Well, what's a mean what do you 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:27.480 do with that? That's the most important part. So we developed, Shane, 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.560 what you're talking about, this calculation called your your putting handicap. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.720 And the way we did that we had everybody at Pink. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.080 We literally went around to the corporate desk of folks 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.880 because you can do iping right there, and you're right 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.800 all of a sudden, five balls and we're like, what's 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.840 your hand We know everyone's handicap here, so we're like, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.399 what's your handicap? Give me five putts and we tell them, hey, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.000 try to be as repeatable as you can, kind of 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:54.040