1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Here's to the great American settlers. The millions of you 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: have settled for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills. 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Of course, there is something else you could do. If 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: you've got something to say. Startup podcast with Spreaker from 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: my Heart and unleash your creative freedom. Maybe even earn 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: enough money to one day tell your old bus hey, 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm no settler, I'm an explorer. Spreaker dot com, spr 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: e a K E r U salon over. Today from 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: Cavalry Audio comes the new true crime podcast, The Shadow Girls. 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: I grew up near the banks of the Green River 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: and in the shadow of the killer that bears its name. 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Prosecutors described him as a serial killer survet. But this 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: podcast isn't only about tracking down the killer. It's about 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: the victims. We stayed in the woods. He always liked 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: to go into woods. Listen to The Shadow Girls on 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: you get your podcast us What Girls in the Forest, 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: Our imagination and our family bonds. The forest is closer 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: than you think. Find a forest near you and discover 20 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: the fourth dot Org brought to you by the United 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: States Fourth Service and the ad council. Hey, everybody, Robert 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this 23 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week 24 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: that just happened is here in one convenient and with 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: to the episodes every day this week, there's gonna be 28 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: nothing new here for you, but you can make your 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: own decisions. Whats they sing my books? Your grandmother, all 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: of your grandmother's wow Garrison, my grandmother's dad, so that 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: there's all facebooking in the grave, I mean, thank god. No. 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: I think my grandparents briefly got introduced to my Space 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: before being too sick to use the internet anymore. They 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: were on a O L for a while though. Oh 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: that's that's quaint. Yeah, they were on a L for 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: a while. Um, you know, it's uh, it's what I 37 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: don't often say. Thank goodness for Louis body demandship. But 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: at least it stopped them from from knowing the horrors 39 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: that were to come in the digital age. They got 40 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: they got right off the bus before things got terrible. Yeah, 41 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: that is so friends, Romans countrymen, how do you feel 42 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: about meta? Which is totally what we're all gonna be 43 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: calling Facebook for now on for forever. My main thought, 44 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: honestly is that like the word meta, the past like 45 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: two years, the word meta has been ruined, both like 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: pop culture thinking it's smart and then ship like this 47 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: now that once useful concept has now been obliterated and 48 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: we can't use it. You can't be meta. And and 49 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: the fact that Facebook is attempting to use this as 50 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: the name of their company shows that Mark Zuckerberg hasn't 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: had a conversation on even footing in his entire adult life, 52 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: Like everyone is trying to get someone out of him 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: every time he talks to anybody, so nobody would say, like, 54 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: you know, Mark, met is a terrible name for a company. 55 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, they did that, and they had a big 56 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: event about two weeks ago where they got up and 57 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: talked for an hour and twenty minutes about the future 58 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: of the Internet and what Facebook's vision of the metaverse 59 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: was going to be, all this all this very fun stuff. Okay, 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: so here's the thing. It's a bad idea, and normally, 61 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: like bad tech ideas are a dime a dozen, and 62 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: we don't cover them on our show because this is 63 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: a show. It could happen here about collapse, things falling apart, 64 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: and the future and what's going to come next. But 65 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: in this case, talking about meta is actually really worthwhile 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: because meta is one example of how the people who 67 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: are kind of in control, or at least in control 68 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: of the significant amount of the world that we live in, 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: particularly the digital spaces that we've all agreed to be 70 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: locked into, see the future. I think the thing that 71 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: like makes it clear why this is in our wheelhouse 72 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: is an article from Wired by Matthew Galt, who's a 73 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: buddy of mine. He's a great journalist. Um. And it's 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: titled Billionaires CVR as a Way to Avoid Radical Social 75 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: Change um. And that title does kind of get to 76 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: the get to the nut of it. But the quotes 77 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: in this thing are fucking wild. So before we get 78 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: into Mark Zuckerberg and his vision of the future of 79 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: the Internet and of humanity, UM, I want to read 80 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: some quotes from John Carmack. Um. So, John Carmack is 81 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: the guy. He made Doom right, Like, you can't overstate 82 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: the the impact John Carmack had on gaming, Like he 83 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: invented the first, like first effectively the first popular first 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: person shooter. He was the CTO of Oculus for a while. UM, 85 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: and he's very familiar with like three D digital spaces, Yes, 86 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: and he's he's very bullish on VR. UM and he 87 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: gave a quote, well, not gave a code. He talked 88 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: to Joe Rogan during an interview in twenty twenty and 89 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: he said this. Some people read this the wrong way 90 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: and react in correctly to it. The promise of VR 91 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: is to make the world you wanted. It is not 92 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: possible on earth to give everyone all that they would want. 93 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: Not everyone can have Richard Branson's private island. People react 94 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: negatively to any talk of economics, but it is resource allocation. 95 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: You have to make decisions about where things go economically. 96 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: You can deliver a lot more value to a lot 97 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: of people in the digital in the virtual sense. UM. 98 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: And that's one of those things that you can see 99 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: how a guy like John Carmack, who was again a 100 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: smart guy who's been ahead of the curve on a 101 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: number of important things, could could convince himself this is true. 102 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: This is absurd. And I think what we see in 103 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: Facebook's video is going to make clear that it's absurd. 104 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: One of the reasons that it's absurd is that UM, 105 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: like everything else, the people who are building the metaverse 106 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: have done, like what they've done to the Internet. The 107 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: Internet before Facebook and Twitter and these like these behemoths, 108 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: UM used to be weird in decentralized and primarily not 109 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: for profit UM. There was there was a period of 110 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: time in which like the idea that you would actually 111 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: make money off the Internet, like really out of like 112 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: content or whatever was just silly because it was this 113 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: it was impossible to monetize. It was this weird, wild, 114 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: like creative nonsense pile UM. And you can only kind 115 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: of make money around the edges of it, but the 116 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: core of it was just just far too strange and 117 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: uncontrollable UM, too wild and free. UM. And that's not 118 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: the Internet anymore because of the people. Because in large 119 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: part of the people who are trying to build these 120 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: metaverses and the idea that they would allow poor people 121 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: to have the same kind of resources as rich people 122 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: in the metaverse. There, they can't let that happen. They're 123 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: not the kind of people who would let that happen. 124 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: They're going to monetize every aspect of this thing. If 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: it becomes real, we ever have like an all encompassing metaverse, 126 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: every every moment of it and everything you do in it, 127 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: everything you have in it is going to cost you money, 128 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: probably with some kind of bullshit subscription plus to adding on, 129 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, like randomized cashes and other like you know, 130 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: lootbox type mechanics. Selling gambling the children is the business 131 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: model of the future. By the future, I mean it's 132 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: been happening. Yeah, it's the business model they want for now. 133 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: I will state I think some sort of persistent virtual 134 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: reality thing will probably happen in some ways someday. I 135 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: don't think any of these people. Part of why my 136 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: thesis of this is none of these people are capable 137 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: of making it. It's because they look at this the 138 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: same way like shitty app developer, shitty like game developers 139 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: for Facebook look at gaming, where it's like everything should 140 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: cost money, you should be able to pay to win, 141 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: and it's like, well, nobody likes that, like nobody, nobody 142 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: likes those games. Those are not the things that are successful. 143 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: Like and it is one of the games that comes 144 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: up a lot when people talk about the metaverse is 145 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: Minecraft and what made Minecraft hugely successful and why you 146 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: can kind of plausibly see like, oh, this has elements 147 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: of a metaverse where you're everybody's building these gigantic, persistent 148 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: things that you can interact with and that you can 149 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: make these incredible and people made like works of art 150 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: in Minecraft. They did it for free, and they did 151 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: it because like nothing costs money really in Minecraft, if 152 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, like you can make anything with nothing 153 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: just by the game, and then you have the game 154 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: and you can build whatever you want. Your equity is effort, right, 155 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's like you know, like 156 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: what are my friends like learned computer science? So he 157 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: could like, okay, create circuits, right, he like he built 158 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: a like functioning computer in this game, just like you 159 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: can you can buy like it's it's like, it's pretty. 160 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: It's pretty. Yeah. If you're gonna tell me sometime in 161 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: the future, virtual reality in the Internet is going to 162 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: get like so good and so pervasive that eventually people 163 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: will bootstrap together some kind of metaverse. Yeah, maybe like 164 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: that that could happen if it comes from like a 165 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: cyber like punk aspect, where like emphasis on the punk, 166 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: then so I can see this being a thing but 167 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: the way tech companies are talking about this, that's not 168 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: how people use the Internet currently specifically, like the mainstream people, 169 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: there's no way, yeah, and there's there's a few more. 170 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: Like one of the things that Matt brings up in 171 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: this article is like VR is a way to avoid 172 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: radical social change. UM is uh like kind of the 173 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why he's number one, and I 174 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: think where we should all be kind of critical about 175 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: how realistic it is is kind of the present state 176 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: of virtual reality, which is about one point seven percent 177 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: of Steam users have a VR headset, Steam being kind 178 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: of the largest app to try to monitor like how 179 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: many people are using VR right, Like, it's kind of 180 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: your best it's figuring out the biggest it's the biggest 181 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: PC gaming UM headsets. Sales of VR headsets did go 182 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: up about thirty during the pandemic UM, but that was 183 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: kind of alongside of surge in video game sales. VR headsets. 184 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: We're already we're already boosting, and the pandemic definitely it 185 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: empercise that because it's like, Hey, I'm stuck at my house. 186 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,359 Speaker 1: What can I do? Well, I'll buy like a two oculus, 187 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: so I can you know, walk around and fight Ninja's 188 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: in my living room. And VR is like real, like 189 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: VRS cool, like it's I have a VR headset for years. 190 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: It can do one of the things that um I 191 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: talked we're talking about like what takes for technology, new 192 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: technology to like go viral, to become like endemic. It 193 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: has some of that, which is that as soon as 194 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: you put one of these on, most people, unless you're 195 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: one of the people that it makes sick. Most people, 196 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: if you put them, put them on and you show 197 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: them the right thing, they're like, oh, this is actually 198 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: way cooler than I thought it was going to be. Yeah. Absolutely, 199 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: UM So that is like I'm not I'm not like 200 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: has I'm not poo pooing the entire idea of VR. 201 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: UM And there's there's there's been some successes on like 202 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: Half Life. Alex sold about two million copies, which is 203 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: huge for VR, but like also nothing for a video game, 204 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: Like that's like for a big for a fucking Half 205 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: Life game. That ship, which just it just shows that 206 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: it's still like fractional, which I don't think any of 207 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: these people are kind of missing UM, but it is 208 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: kind of point to again that the degree to which 209 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: this technology would have to leap up for anything like 210 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: what Facebook where we're about to look like it for 211 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: that to actually be popular. There's a difference between developing 212 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: VR gaming and developing this metaverse concept which goes way 213 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: on VR gaming. Yeah yeah, um, but I so what 214 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: I find what I find so like doomed about this 215 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: isn't the technology, even though I think it's important to 216 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 1: acknowledge there's a long way to go, just in terms 217 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: of like how heavy it is, how much space you need, 218 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: how not fully immersive it is. You know it's yeah, 219 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: trying to remove lighthouses making it more mobile. Yeah, there's 220 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: a lot, there's a lot of stuff that control schemes 221 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: are still kind of jank, like, yeah, there's a lot 222 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: to be done. But all of that's I mean, think 223 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: about the first iPhone, right, it was like a fucking 224 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: brick compared to the ship. Today, all of that gets better, 225 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: and all the first VR headset compared to the Oculus two, 226 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: it's like a massive improvement and basically every way. I 227 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: don't think when people criticize this stuff by pointing out 228 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: like how primitive VR is today, I don't think that 229 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: means anything. Um, it is like worth noting, you know, 230 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: it's current level of adoption, but it's not people compare 231 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: this to like three D TVs and stuff. It's not 232 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: that three D TVs were immediately obviously from the beginning, 233 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: nothing but a but a grift um because there's nobody 234 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: wanted what really wanted what three dtvs had. Like VR, 235 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: people do want what VR does, and eventually the tech 236 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: will get there. What's bullshit is the idea. And this 237 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: is why I think this article by Galt is so good. 238 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: The idea that VR is going to allow the poor 239 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: and downtrodden of the world to have a slice of 240 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: the good life. And this is something Karmak is particularly 241 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: bullish about. Quote not everyone can have a mansion, Not 242 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: everyone can have a home theater. These are things we 243 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: can simulate to some degree in virtual reality. Now the 244 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: simulation is not as good as the real thing. If 245 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: you are rich and you have your own home, theater 246 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: or mansion or in private island, good for you, You're 247 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: probably not the people who are going to benefit the most. 248 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: Most of the people in the world lived in cramped 249 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: quarters that are not what they would choose if to 250 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: be if they had unlimited resources. Incredibly deranged. Yeah, it's 251 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: out of its mind, because that's not how VR works. 252 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: Like I have Like I can put on my headset 253 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: and load up like a nice forest, and it's not 254 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: it's not the feeling of being in a fort like, No, 255 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: that's not that's not how our senses work. So until 256 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: we can hack our own means and the feeling things 257 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: we don't actually feel, then it's not a thing. And 258 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: we're nowhere close to that level of technology, even just 259 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: to the degree that he's talking about, Like, yeah, you 260 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: could you if you don't have a big home theater, 261 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: you could just like put it on and have a 262 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: huge TV. And which is a thing that VR can 263 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: do now, Like it's not good. It's like Garrison, you 264 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: come over to three times a week and we watch 265 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: movies with all of our friends in my living room. 266 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: Like the good thing about it, Like it's nice to 267 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: have a large screen. I have a big TV, but 268 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: like your friends, you're watching them react, like you're eating 269 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: food together. You're doing all this stuff that will never 270 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: really be possible in VR. I have a lot of 271 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: respect for John Karmen. He made Doom right, Like that's 272 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: a third of my childhood. Um, he's out of his 273 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: mind now if he thinks that that's like what people want, 274 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: what poor people want, Like you've been rich for too long, sir, 275 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: you don't understand human beings. A particular type of escape, 276 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: like using VR as that type of escapism is totally 277 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: wrong because like VR can be escapism, but not gonna 278 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: trick you into thinking you're living in a mansion. That's 279 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: not that's not how VR. It works because you're walking 280 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: around a tiny room in your house and you can't 281 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: feel anything. You can like walk through cupboards, which is 282 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: a great way to play VR games is you can 283 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: just like hack it by walking into stuff. And they're 284 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: working on so the The article notes that Elon Musk 285 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: is working in a brain machine interface called new Link. 286 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and who knows what I will say, that's 287 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: a little bit like the how how realistic all of 288 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: those dreams are um is questionable. That said, something like 289 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: what they're claiming it is will eventually be figured out. 290 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: It will, and it should it will probably probably should 291 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: be destroyed. It probably should be destroyed. Not put the 292 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: chip in your brain is really bullish on that technology. 293 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: Gabe Newell is the guy we have half life for 294 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: like he and he and John Karnack. If there's a 295 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: mount rushmore of like gamer dudes, it's they make they 296 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: make one of the they make one of the better headsets. Yeah. Again, 297 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: like we're about to talk about Mark Zuckerberg, who I 298 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: do not think as a visionary. Both Karmak and Newell 299 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: are visionaries. Doesn't mean they're right, because visionaries are wrong 300 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: all of the fucking time. It's part of their job. 301 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: But they're both really, really fucking bullish on this Newell 302 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: is a big believer in like the promise of kind 303 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: of what the neural link, the brain interface technology and 304 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: vr uh. He told I g NY were way closer 305 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: to the matrix than people realize, which I don't think 306 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: is the case. Um. And Newell is the person who 307 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: I've just talked about, like how smart he is. He 308 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: is even more out of his mind than John Karmack 309 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: on this ship um. In an interview with New Zealand's 310 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: One News um, he talked about his vision of the 311 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: near future, which is a world in which brains and 312 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: computers interface, and computers can make changes to the human 313 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: brain he called he called the human body a meat peripheral. 314 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ so lost his mind. This is the this 315 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: is the thing about like VR, and like the metaverse 316 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: in generals is over like emphasizing that we basically just 317 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: live in the meat space, and the meat space exists 318 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: just to make content for the online which is so 319 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: and the online space is the actual real space and 320 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: we just have to operate inside our meat space to 321 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: make content for that. This is like the way technology 322 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: has been progressing, the way tech companies have wanting things 323 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: to go, And it's the most dystopian thing that's going 324 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: to give so many people like disassociate of mental disorders 325 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: because it's not horrible. For like, I'm going to be 326 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: super interested to see people of my generation, including myself, 327 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: like how we develop mentally the next you know, twenty 328 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: years based on how kind of fake our lives have 329 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: been because of how much we exist and socialized within 330 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: this like false network. It's gonna be interesting to watch. 331 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: I I used to be really optimistic about aspects of VR. 332 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: I actually when I was in Mosle, I filmed not 333 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: that like other people did this before I did, but 334 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: I was kind of one of the early people filming 335 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: like a a VR documentary of some combat of like 336 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: the Battle of mosle Um, aspects of which were aired 337 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: as A three sixty and a bunch of different like 338 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: TV networks UM, and I had this belief that, like, yeah, VR, 339 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: because the visual aspect of VR is so good, you know, 340 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, even at that point Seen was already so good. 341 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: I disbelieve it, like, well if you could, because the 342 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: first time I ever went into a war zone, it 343 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: was such an affecting experience, and I thought like, oh 344 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: my god, if you could somehow carve out this moment 345 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: of experience and like transmitted to other people, maybe that 346 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: would mean something. Maybe it would like have an impact 347 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: on people. I do think that is possible in the 348 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: long Yeah, yeah, I think maybe we'll like we'll see. 349 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: The question is like, can you give a ship if 350 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 1: if you feel like horror games, the level of like 351 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: anxiety and some degrees trauma of playing like a really 352 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: well made horror VR game is incredibly intense, UM, and 353 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: that's something that'd be done very well. So I feel 354 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 1: like that type of like surreal experience like a war 355 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: zone could actually be carried over to some degree in 356 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: VR to like change people's minds on like hey, maybe 357 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: war is not good. Yeah, I mean that that's the dream. 358 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how much I still believe that, but 359 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: reading people like Gabe Newell and how they talk about 360 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: this technology makes me lose some hope and all the 361 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: headsets in. Here's another thing Gabe Newell said in that 362 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: a garrison, after calling the human body and meat peripheral. 363 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: You're used to experiencing the world through eyes, but eyes 364 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: were created by this low cost bidder that didn't care 365 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: about failure rates in r m as, and if it 366 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: got broken, there was no way to repair anything effectively, 367 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: which totally makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, but it's 368 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: not at all reflective of consumer preferences of the human eye. 369 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: No like funck like like they There is some aspects 370 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: of trans humanism that I like. I like to change 371 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: like body parts at will with like my mind, but 372 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: this type of stuff actually want to throw all technology. 373 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: I support the idea of, Like, it would be great 374 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: if when people lose their eye completely from like shrapnel 375 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: or whatever some sort of like degenerative disease, we just 376 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: pop new eyes in there. Absolutely we start cloning eyes. 377 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: I think that's a great thing. But eyes are amazing, 378 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: Like it's the most the most impressive camera ever. We're 379 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: nowhere close to replicating the ability. It is not a 380 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: low cost bitter. It is like they're imperfect, like everything 381 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: that that is part of the human body. But like 382 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: the break down said that, he can't monetize it the 383 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: same day, right, That's that's his problem. He's also talking 384 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: about like well they break down. It's like, motherfucker, have 385 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: you used a computer You're gave Newell. I've know you've 386 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: used a computer, Like you want to talk about breaking 387 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: every computer I've ever owned. I've used Steam before, Like, yeah, Steam, motherfucker. 388 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: I like, I would rather have my eyes and I'm 389 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: wearing glasses right now, go sucking egg. And it goes 390 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: on because he he can't stop ship talking like reality 391 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: he talks about like in the in the virtual world 392 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: he wants to build, the real world will seem flat, colorless, 393 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: blurry compared to the experiences you'll be able to create 394 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: in people's brains. Um And I want you to keep 395 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: that in mind, my my, my dear friends and colleagues 396 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: as we leap now into the Facebook live stream. First 397 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: of all, I think would it be worth like explaining 398 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: to and we've we've danced around what the metaverse is. 399 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: But for people who are totally unfamiliarly, do you think 400 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: it would be worth giving a general explanation? Will that 401 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: be covered in the Facebook thing that's kind of covered 402 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: in the because because this is Facebook building it. But 403 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: I think we should. You're probably right that we should 404 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 1: give a little bit of context about like where they 405 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: got this idea, because again Mark Zuckerberg has never had 406 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: an original thought. It's not um and and Gave Newell 407 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: and and um John Carmack have had original thoughts in 408 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: their life, but this is not an original thought from 409 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: any of them, all of them, everyone anywhere who talks 410 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: about the metaverse um is whether or not they know it. 411 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: A fan of Neil Stevenson who wrote who wrote a 412 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: book called snow Crash, where the point was that in 413 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: the future the world is a dystopian corporate is nightmare. 414 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: And because things are, in part because things are so 415 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: bad and incredibly highly like advertised and monetized persistent internet 416 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: called the metaverse that exists all around us and it's 417 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: totally immersive, has come to dominate everyday life. Um and 418 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: it's a bad thing. Like snow Crash, He's a story 419 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: of like wouldn't this future be horrible? Yeah, it's not like, hey, 420 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: this is a cool thing, but these tech guys read 421 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: this and are like, oh yeah, that seems like fun. 422 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: But you could do that. Neil Stevenson, who was yet 423 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: another person I respect, made one crucial flaw, which is 424 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: he gave the hero in his book a katana. And 425 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: because the hero in his book, um, everyone was like, 426 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't this be rad if this were the future? Let's 427 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: make this be the entire future. It's a real tragic 428 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: You need to abolish katanas, like, we would save so 429 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: many lives. Honestly, you could probably make a strong case 430 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: that the katana has a huge chunk of the cultural 431 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: weight that it has because if Neil Stevenson, um, he's 432 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: a big part of that, right, you know, you've got 433 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: a lot of movies and stuff too. But yeah, but 434 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: like the a ton of punk kind of melding. Yeah, 435 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: and it's it's a it's a it's a very I mean, 436 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: it's it's a bit dated now, but it's still like 437 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: a good book to read. Like there's a bunch of 438 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: silly stuff like that. It's replicating a lot of other 439 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: cyberpunk art, some better, some worse. Yes, every worse cough 440 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: cough ready player one, yeah, and every like every not 441 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: every cyberpunk sense, because there's people like Corey doctor Oh 442 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: who do some really cool shit. Um, but most cyberpunk 443 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: senses to some extent um borrowed from from Neil Stevenson's work, 444 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: and Facebook's entire idea is based on this. And so 445 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: the idea is that it is a persistent, fully immersive 446 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: digital world that interacts with the real world. So you 447 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: can be in VR hanging out with friends from around 448 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: the world and like a fake living room and then 449 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: like call someone and see like a video of them 450 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: in the real world as they're like walking to a 451 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: concert or whatever, and like talk to them and like 452 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: make play. Like that's the idea, right. Um. So this video, 453 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: this face, it opens with you know, you've got your 454 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: your little introduction music and stuff, and then we see 455 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg looking like a fucking gollum. Um. Yeah. And 456 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: and the first thing that I really noticed about this 457 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: is that he talks about how we're all going to 458 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: do this together, meaning invent the technologies and use cases 459 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: that are going to make the metaverse worthwhile. Um. And 460 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: when he says all of us. This is not an 461 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: internal Facebook video. This is a video. The meta video 462 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: is heavily angled towards developers UM and investors UM and 463 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: it's been viewed by a lot of people, like twelve 464 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: million to date. But he's talking about like a big 465 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: part of what he's saying is that like the technology 466 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: for all of the stuff that we've rendered, because most 467 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: of what's rendered in this isn't game footage so to speak, 468 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: like it's not a game or whatever. It's here's how 469 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: it might look if the technology has ever invented. Nothing, 470 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: nothing is like in engine or anything close to it. 471 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: It's a it's all speculative. What's interesting about this to 472 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: me is that he's he is saying we're going to 473 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: build this together and and sort of acknowledging that like 474 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: Facebook does not have the capacity to make this thing 475 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: they've dreamed about, but Facebook is going to own it. 476 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: So he's a lot to like. This is him tacitly 477 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: admitting I want to take your surplus value to make 478 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: a metaverse that I then control and monetize entirely at 479 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: my own discretion, which is cool, it's great, and it's 480 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: also like I think, you know, I think if if 481 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: you want a sign of where this is actually going 482 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: and like the actual creativity behind this. Like okay, again, 483 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: everything in that video is a mock up, right. It 484 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: looks like dogshit. It's so ugly, it's hideous. It looks 485 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: like a fucking Connect game or like a fucking we game, 486 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: which is fine, but I don't want to live there, 487 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: like it's always weird in cartoony. Um. Yeah, so he 488 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: talks about in kind of laying out why he thinks 489 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: this is the future. Zuckerberry talks about how text used 490 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: to be the basis of everything online, but now like 491 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: photos and videos dominate and that's yeah, as that change 492 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: happened from like text to video to photos to videos. 493 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: The next change, he kind of frames it like the 494 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: the the the obvious next evolution, is to what he 495 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: calls an embod audied Internet where you're part of the experience. 496 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: And that's the metaverse, which again that if you don't 497 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: I think that part has some true I agree. I 498 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: don't think he's entirely wrong there. Obviously that's not his idea. Um, oh, 499 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: running out of time, Okay, thank you for telling me 500 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: about the host and because its unlimited minutes. Great thanks zoom. Um. 501 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: Speaking of meta verses, UM like, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm 502 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: gonna flop onto a share screen and I'm gonna show 503 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: you guys a section from this from this video, think 504 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: about computers or phones today. Now, since we're doing this 505 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: remotely today, I figured let's make this special. So we've 506 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: put together something that I think is really going to 507 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: give you a feeling for what this future could be like. 508 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: We believe the metaverse will be the successor to the 509 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: mobile Internet. We'll be able to feel present, like we're 510 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: right there with people, no matter how far apart we 511 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: actually are. Okay, so I'm pausing it here because I 512 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: want you to watch this. The room that Mark Zuckerberget 513 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: is in, he's not in the metaverse yet, he's in 514 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: like a house. I think it's supposed to be his house. 515 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: It is clearly not a place human beings list. It 516 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: has been set dressed. Um. One of the ways you 517 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: can tell is that all of the books and picture 518 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: frames on the bookcase are like the same flat tones 519 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: because they're not meant to stand out, They're meant to 520 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: blend in and very telling Lee this is what's interesting 521 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: to me. As soon as he steps into the frame 522 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: where he's going to announce this. The thing that is 523 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: directly next to his head is the only thing that's 524 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: not like the same kind of baige as everything. It's 525 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: a bottle of barbecue sauce that's being used as the 526 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: book ind to a bunch of books now Meta. Immediately 527 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: after this, like people joked about it online and Meta 528 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: started tweeting about it and like trying to make like 529 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: jokes about oh, Mark just loves his you know, his 530 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: his barbecue so much. Like they tried to turn it 531 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: into a meme because they think it's humanizing and and 532 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: and kind of one aspect of the meme they were 533 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: putting together is that like, oh, he just forgot to 534 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, he just he's he's so into barbecue that 535 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: he leaves his saucer that was put there on someone's orders, 536 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: Like that was it was to create me. We're seeing 537 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: we're seeing Marvel dis as well. They're releasing promotional images 538 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: specifically designed to be turned into memes, and it doesn't work. 539 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: We said's so obvious, like because we'd be like, you know, yeah, 540 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: we're not going to use this because it's it's a 541 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: it's a dogshit horrible, like horrible cinematography, bad colors, and 542 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: it's not a fun meme. But people did follow for 543 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: the Mark Zuckerberg thing, Uh like, oh look at the 544 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: barbecue thoughts. But yeah, that was intentional to create like 545 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: a viral thing to trip. Yeah, anyway, I'm gonna let 546 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: Mark continue here after I made my little point. When 547 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: I send my parents a video of my kids, they're 548 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: gonna feel like they're right in the moment with us, 549 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: not peering through a little window. When you play a 550 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: game with your friends, you'll feel like you're right there 551 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: together in a different worlds, not just on your computer 552 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: by yourself. And when you're in a meeting in the metaverse, 553 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: it'll feel like you're right in the room together, making 554 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: eye contact, having a shared sense of space, and not 555 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: just looking at a grid of faces. So that's important 556 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: because a big aspect of what he's trying to sell here, 557 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: why he's he's trying to convince people that this is 558 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: a real thing, is that it's a balm for loneliness. Right. Um, 559 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: he is he is, and he's one of people who's 560 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: responsible for for pushing our society to such an atomized 561 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: and isolated direction. Facebook propaganda has isolated huge numbers of 562 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: people from their families. It's um. And of course then 563 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: there's just the aspect of it that is the lockdown, 564 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: which has isolated people a number of a lot of 565 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: which ties back to disinformation spread on Facebook. But like, um, 566 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: he's he's, he's selling this, you know, as a this 567 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: will make you less lonely, will make you feel like 568 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: you're all together. Um, and it's it's He's specifically says 569 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: at one point, this isn't about spending more time on screens. 570 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: It's about making the time we spend on screens already better. Um, 571 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: which is horseshit because, as the Facebook papers make clear, 572 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: Facebook has repeatedly refused to do things that would have 573 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: reduced the harm of their platform because it would have 574 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: reduced the traffic that they've got. And I think those 575 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: are the kind of decision you can Yeah, I mean, 576 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: and still like technologically we're still not there, Like when 577 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: when when you're in VR you even if you're interacting 578 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: with other like three D like personas of people specifically, 579 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: like vr chat was very popular among like furries, and 580 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: I think they are honestly the best example of what 581 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: the metaverse could actually be is how furries use vr 582 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: chat um. But even still that is very different um 583 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: than standing in a room with someone in a first suit, right, 584 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: Like it's it's totally it's it's totally different and metaverses 585 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: and this type of thing. I don't think we'll actually 586 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: solve alienation. I don't think it's because you're not actually 587 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: touching anyone, Like it's it's not if you're not. There's 588 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: still that that that digital fog between you and everything else. 589 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: Do I think there's some elements of it that could 590 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: be developed, specifically using a R that would make things 591 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: a little bit cool. Yeah, uh, but it's not going 592 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: to solve alienation as a concept. In fact, it could 593 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: actually make it worse. It could make it worse. Like again, 594 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: there's some use cases for I don't know, people who 595 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: have like a l S. Maybe you could develop some 596 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: sort of rig that would allow them to in ract 597 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: like more with with people around them and like that 598 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: could be useful for those people. But like, it is 599 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 1: not a societal answer to loneliness. And I think one 600 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: thing that makes that clear is you look at their 601 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: vision of home spaces. So this is kind of the 602 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: center of the of the Metaverse they want to build 603 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: is everybody has their little digital home um that you 604 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: can set up and you can design to your liking, 605 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: and you can buy things like n f T s 606 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: to decorate it. This becomes a big part of the 607 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: pitch that like n f t s are going to 608 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: be in it and like that way you know that 609 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: they have at one point, like somebody buys like an 610 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: autographed poster for of metaverse concert that's an n f 611 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: T and they get to put it in their room 612 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: and know that it's the only one of those posters 613 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: or something, which is the dumbest thing I can imagine. Um, 614 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: maybe it'll work. I don't know. I I don't really 615 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: see how that's any different from an n f T 616 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: being revolutionary case than like, you know, being able to 617 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: buy something in a fucking video game. No, it's it's 618 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: the way people already hate to do. Yeah, it's it's 619 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: just skins or whatever. Bullshit, cause me stuff I want. 620 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,479 Speaker 1: Number One of the things that's in entertaining about this 621 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: is how bad a lot of the acting is for 622 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: all the money and time they have. Like Mark Zuckerberg 623 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: is a ship presenter and and this bit where he 624 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: tries to explain why the home space is so cool. Um, 625 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: and it shows you like their home spaces. It starts 626 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: about four thirty on the video of people at home 627 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: when a watch is just a perfect, perfect encapsulation of 628 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: like how inhuman this this world they want to build 629 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: really feels what even when they try to present it 630 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,959 Speaker 1: in its best face? Oh? Hey, Mark, Hey, what's going on? 631 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: We're floating in space made this place? That's awesome, right, 632 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: it's from the creator I met in l a. Uh, 633 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: this place is amazing that you of course it's me, 634 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, I had to do the robot. Man. I 635 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: thought I was supposed to be the robot. Whoa, I 636 00:31:51,720 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: knew you were luffing. Where is na Let's call her Naomi? Hey? 637 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: Should we do it? Really? I'm running late, but you've 638 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: got to see what we're checking out. There's an artist 639 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: going around so hoped t r pieces for people to fight. 640 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: Really street art, that's cool. So I wanted to stop 641 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: here because this is also part of like what's it's 642 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: this perfect? It's like n FT culture and all this 643 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: ship like the street art they show, this is clearly 644 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: them trying to be like, here's one of these cool 645 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: use cases for how the metaverse is going to interact 646 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: with and influence the real world. Like this artist pastes 647 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: this art on a wall that when you look at 648 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: it in the metaverse or when you you film it 649 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: and you send a video to people in the metaverse, 650 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: it becomes this big three D thing and it it 651 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: just looks like ship. It's just a bunch of like 652 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: squiggly lines and stuff like. It's not like there's good graffiti, 653 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: especially in San Francisco, there's incredible fucking graffiti. Um, this 654 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: is just like nonsense. It looks like it looks like 655 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: a fucking n f T. Like it's just this this 656 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: kind of shitty. It was obviously designed by a computer, 657 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: not an actual person. Yeah, and there's nothing like it 658 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: doesn't say any thing. There's nothing cool about it. Um 659 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: and they haven't again because Mark Zuckerberg can't conceive of art. 660 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: There's nothing about this that like makes me think, oh 661 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: what a need futuristic thing, which was like, oh cool, 662 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: I can see squiggly lines it has in person and 663 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: on my phone. I mean, the big metaverse and like 664 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: a R and VR is like you know, making depth 665 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: within actually making two D space appear to be three 666 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: D space. This still looks too D like it doesn't. 667 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: It is not. It's not tricking my brain in any 668 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: way whatsoever. Especially with the concept of like filming it 669 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: on your phone. We have the technology now like that's 670 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: not that's not the metaverse. That's just filming it already 671 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: on your little box, as Zuckerberg said, And we have 672 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: the technology to do like that a r thing with 673 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: fucking um with your Pokemon go did that like five 674 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: years ago, and it's not what people want, um well 675 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: Pokemon but long time. But the closest we ever got 676 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: to world peace and it was a CIA Pokemon goes 677 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: like the closest we ever got to like the metaverse, 678 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: like realistically, but people don't want People don't want to 679 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: like take photos of crappy street art that then becomes 680 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: three D but still isn't like I don't know it is. 681 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: It is incredibly grim that most of like the case 682 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 1: uses for metaverse stuff. The only thing they can imagine 683 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: it being is like fucking meetings. This is like the 684 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: biggest thing that they show. He's like, oh, we can 685 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: make virtual meetings. They've tried that the video that we 686 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: just played. They're all in like this spaceship, and everybody's 687 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: three D Like one person, it looks like kind of 688 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: a hologram of their real bodies. Some people are just 689 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: like three D rendered cartoons of themselves. One person is 690 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: a big robot, and they're all like floating in zero 691 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: G and playing card sitting at a table and playing 692 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: virtual cards, and there's like a bed in the background. 693 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: But like you can't go in the bed because it's 694 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: not a fake. It's a fake and you're not floating 695 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: in zero G because the r will never be able 696 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: to trick you into thinking you're sitting in a in 697 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: a in your chair in a room with some ship 698 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: on your face. You're you're fucking Carl Havoc and trying 699 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: to pretend that you're like having a good time playing 700 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: cards with your friends. It's like, yeah, if I could 701 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: have a space station house where my friends and I 702 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: could float around and play cards, that would be sick. 703 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: But you're not promising that. Are you doing that? Um? 704 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: I mean, like there is there is games that simulate 705 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: zero G. They don't trick you. They make you nauseous. 706 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be fun, but like it's I'm not 707 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: going to be in the same way that eating Hawaiian 708 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: baby wood row seeds can be fun. Yeah. So he 709 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: goes on to talk about the avatars that you'll have, 710 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 1: which are basically he describes them as pro profile pictures, 711 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: but much richer because they're live, which I find unsettling 712 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: and part by thinking about what will happen when people 713 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: die to their digital avatars. But whatever. Um. At this 714 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: point he goes on to talking about how people he 715 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: thinks people are going to actually use these avatars, and it's, um, 716 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: it's very unhinged one for hanging out and maybe the 717 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: fantasy one for gaming. You're gonna have a wardrobe of 718 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: virtual clothes for different occasions, designed by different creators and 719 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: from different apps and experiences. So one of the things 720 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: he's talking about that is exciting is that like you'll 721 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: be able to have a different avatar for uh, like work, 722 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: if you're in a work meeting, or like hanging out 723 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: with your friends. Um. And to me, that says, like, oh, 724 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: so now I'm going to be expected to like maintain 725 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: and keep up an avatar for like my job and 726 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: like dress that fucking thing, and then I'll have to 727 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: like switch to hang out with people, and like why 728 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: why does that what does that provide me being able 729 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: to like sit in a room as an avatar that 730 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: I don't currently have, like through zoom? Like why? Why? Is? 731 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: In what world is that something people want? The only 732 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: only good use case for this is Furries. This is 733 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: the only way it worked because they that has almost 734 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: like a true representation of their own body. What what's 735 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: this is going to do for regularly for like people 736 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: who are not Furries is it'll pride to people a 737 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: lot of weird like dysmorphia. Yeah, or if you're or 738 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: if you're trends and you make a female avatar, assuming 739 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: like you know, for me, if I was to make 740 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 1: like an avatar that's more feminine, that can be fun 741 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: for me. Um, But for a lot of people, these 742 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: weird like digital versions of themselves will probably they're just 743 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: like Uncanny Valley. It will probably make you feel weird. Yeah. Um. 744 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: And he's he's so focused on like this as a 745 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: way for people to work together while being remote, which 746 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: says a lot like It's seventh, Like like about a 747 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: half minute after this point or a minute or so 748 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: after this point, he brags that your home space can 749 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: even have your own personal office where you work, which 750 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,919 Speaker 1: is within the metaverse, within the metaverse, which is really 751 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: just like digitally ruin your eyes, where the goggles that 752 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: long your eyes get rude because it's blasting light into 753 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: your res and it's it's also just like I like 754 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: sitting with a laptop, and I have a laptop, and 755 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: I have a second screen for my laptop, and I 756 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: sit at my comfortable living room table and I write 757 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: and browse the Internet and research and stuff. And yeah, 758 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: every now and then, like I hunch over too much 759 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: in my back gets little bit sore, but like it's not. 760 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty comfortable and I can get up and 761 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: move and do stuff in the house, putting a bunch 762 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: of ship on me and sitting still and like being 763 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 1: unable to perceive the world around me and locked into 764 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: this uncomfortable digital desk because it's later on, whenever they 765 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: do there's this mix of you can see the videos 766 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 1: of the technology as it actually exists, and they're aspirational, 767 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: and the aspirational version it's like you're in this gorgeous 768 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: three dimensional office that looks so you're playing basketball, both 769 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: in real life and in the Holygram, which at first 770 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: of all just impossible like you're never going to do 771 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: never ever going to happen, just physically impossible. But when 772 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: you see the clips of like what because they do 773 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: have aspects of this built. When you see the clips 774 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: of like the workspaces they have built, it's like, oh, 775 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: of my screen is the Microsoft word app or excel 776 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: um as it or or Outlook as it currently exists, 777 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: and it is like the edges of this little VR office. 778 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: So all I'm looking at is I'm seeing a full 779 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: eye version of like whatever apps i'm you can, yeah, 780 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: you can. You can get a air headset, you can 781 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: download virtual desktop, you can bring your desktop into your 782 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: v into your VR space. It's not useful, like it's 783 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: like it's it's it's novel for the first twenty minutes, 784 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: and then you get bored of it because you realized 785 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: that you can actually see your keyboard so you can't 786 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: type his fast. There's a great joke about this in 787 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: the last season Community, the best example of the metaverse 788 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: where he's like because like the big part of like 789 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: Epic Games version of the metaverse is like interacting with 790 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 1: like brands and all your apps within a three three 791 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: D digital space, which is what the Dean does. In 792 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: community has like run to his email. Yeah, Like this 793 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: is a great example of why this technology is never 794 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: going to actually catch on for regular people because that's 795 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: not how they use the Internet. That you don't want 796 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: to traverse a three D digital space to get to 797 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: your email. That's that's asinine. Yeah, and it's there's aspects 798 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: of it that are asinine, and there's aspects of thus 799 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: just impossible. So, like a big thing that he's hitting 800 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: on with this is interoperability, which is like you want 801 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: to be able to transp travel between different apps, between 802 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: different programs that different people have made, and you want 803 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: to be able to take like whatever items you buy, 804 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: whatever n f t s you have with you. Um, 805 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: And he's talking about like this will work in games. 806 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 1: This is a thing that like you've seen people talk 807 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: about with like the promise of n f t s 808 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: for gaming, Like you could get an item that like 809 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: is yours so they can't nerf it or or whatever, 810 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: and like it will travel for you from game to game. 811 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: There's a developer I follow on on Twitter. He made 812 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: the game Audios, which is about like a guy who 813 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: disposes of bodies for the mob and tries to quit. 814 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: It's a it's a cool games. He's a good developer 815 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: doc something or other. He wrote a huge article about 816 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: like why none of this n f T s can't 817 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: work for gaming? Um. That also hits on like why 818 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: what Zuckerberg saying is impossible? Which is that Like, so 819 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: you're saying that everyone who makes a game has to 820 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: has to build in like a way to handle every 821 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: single item that you could possibly get in the metaverse 822 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 1: and everything that you're having, Like it's it's an unthinkable challenge. Um, 823 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: it's and and like why and what if a game 824 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: shuts down, right, Like are you saying they have to 825 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,919 Speaker 1: continue operating the game forever and updating it forever, even 826 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: once it's no longer profitable, so that you can keep 827 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: using your eye Like no, it's just it's it's functionally impossible. Um, 828 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: but it's It's what's interesting to me is he's talking 829 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: about all this. He has to know this is impossible 830 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: when he does. There's all these scenes, like you said, 831 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: where people like playing basketball, and like one of them 832 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: is in the real world and one of them is 833 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: in VR, but they're both playing in a real world. 834 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: And so the person with a with a virtual ball 835 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: and It's like, number one, how is the person the 836 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: real world? How do they feel that ball? He assist 837 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,719 Speaker 1: some vague shit about like haptic feedback, which doesn't work 838 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: that way. Maybe there's a way if you're wearing like 839 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: a glove, that it could trick you into believing you 840 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: were hitting a ball or something. Um like like and 841 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: not everyone's wearing headsets like it's we're just We'll get 842 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: to that in part two, the headset question. Um, but 843 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: what what what's interesting is that like a huge amount 844 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: of the coolest stuff, the stuff that you can be like, well, 845 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: that would be neat. Yeah. If I could fucking if 846 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: I could fucking play pool with my friend in Germany 847 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: and it would feel like we were both in the 848 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: same room, um, even though only one of us is 849 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: standing around a real pool table. Yeah, that would be 850 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 1: an amazing feat of technology. It's never gonna happen. Um, 851 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: certainly not in any kind of reasonable time for rame. 852 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: Mark knows that all that is going to happen. It 853 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: most is like a digital conference suite that like is 854 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: damages people's eyes and brains. Um. And he knows that, 855 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: but he's angry that Zoom beat him to the to 856 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: the punch when the pandemic hit Um and this is 857 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: his like, that's kind of one of the sinister things 858 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: about it. Um. There's other sinister ship, which we'll talk 859 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: about in part two. But you know what, guys, it's 860 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: time to end part one. This is enough for part one. Well, 861 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about we'll talk about what's really frightening 862 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: about a lot of what Mark's trying to build in 863 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,359 Speaker 1: part two, But for right now, I want to talk 864 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 1: about ending the episode, which I guess I just did. Goodbye. 865 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,879 Speaker 1: What grows in the forest trees? Sure, No, what else 866 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: grows in the forest, Our imagination, our sense of wonder, 867 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect 868 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. 869 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest 870 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I discover the Forest dot Org, 871 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 872 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: the AD Council. Look to your children's eyes to see 873 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,320 Speaker 1: the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world 874 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,399 Speaker 1: for them. You look and see a tree, They see 875 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to 876 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: the sky. They see treasure and pebbles, they see a 877 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. 878 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest 879 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot org. 880 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 881 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: the ad Council. Black Effect Presents features honest conversations and 882 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: exclusive interviews, a space for artists, everyday people, and listeners 883 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: to amplify, elevate, and empower black voices with great conversations. 884 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: Make sure to listen to the Black Effect Presents podcast 885 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,919 Speaker 1: on I Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 886 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: your podcast. Welcome back, It could happen here the show 887 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 1: where we're talking right now about the metaverse that a 888 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: bunch of rich people think that you're going to want 889 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: to live in once they ruin the regular world. Um uh, 890 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: and why it's dogshit and it is dogshit, so it's 891 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: just it's just it's just total dogshit. Um. Everything about this, 892 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: I don't know, seems like a waking nightmare to be 893 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: to me so far if we're actually talking about like 894 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,280 Speaker 1: what they are, what they are immediately trying to because 895 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of this is aspirational nonsense that as we've 896 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: stated is like you are never going to play a 897 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: perfect game of basketball in a mix of real and 898 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: a R courts with your friend in Hong Kong. Like 899 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: that's never going to happen. Never. That's not how physics works. 900 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,319 Speaker 1: That's not how electronics works. Maybe when we find out 901 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: how to literally hack the human brain, we can like 902 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,320 Speaker 1: put you into a quasi seizure state that that that 903 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: that mimics that. But like the closest, the closest thing 904 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: we have to this right now is actually uh VR 905 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: board games is the best is the best example of this. 906 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: Or you can play with you can play Settlers of 907 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: Catan with your friend, a classic across the Yeah, and 908 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: there's some cool ship you can do with haptics and 909 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: haptic feedback is like the basic example of it is 910 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: when you like touch your phone and your phone like 911 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: vibrates under your hand to like let you know that 912 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: you've you've touched like a command. Yeah, And there's there's 913 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: people who think like at some point we would be 914 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: we may be able to make using haptic feedback, like 915 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: a virtual keyboard that feels like a real keyboard. That 916 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: might be possible. That's still that's still like kind of 917 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: like the idea of a keyboard that isn't there but 918 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: feels like a real keyboard might that that's still on 919 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,879 Speaker 1: the fringes of possibility, like this, The fucking ship they're 920 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: showing in this video is like nonsense. We will have 921 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: laser cannons before we have any of this bullshit, Like 922 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: we will be shooting each other in space before we 923 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: have this nonsense. Um, And thank god for that because 924 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: at least that sounds fun. So the actual center of 925 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: what they've built in terms of the products that that 926 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: Facebook is launching now for the metaverse, UM, the core 927 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: of it is Horizon Home and Horizon Worlds, And I 928 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: think Horizon is kind of the brand they're going with 929 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: for all of their different like meta programs. UM. Horizon 930 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: Home is the home spaces thing that they discussed earlier 931 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: where people can like make their own like houses. And 932 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: one of the things they don't talk about in this 933 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: they keep saying like you can build whatever you want, 934 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: you can make it look like anything. They don't say 935 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,520 Speaker 1: a word about how like decorating your digital home is 936 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: going to be monetized versus how much of it will 937 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,879 Speaker 1: be sweat equity. And again, like the smart thing would 938 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: be make it all sweat equit, make it like Minecraft, 939 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: make people be able to build anything they can conceive 940 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: of if they're actually creative enough and spend the time. 941 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,359 Speaker 1: They won't do that, um as they talk about in 942 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: that like in the video they played like we're like, oh, 943 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,239 Speaker 1: this is a cool world. It was made by a developer. Like, yeah, 944 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna buy the cool ship. Um I don't. I 945 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: don't know what you're gonna buy it, And it's gonna 946 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: suck because all you can do is sit at a table. Yeah, 947 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: and because like you can't go into bed, like you can't, 948 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,320 Speaker 1: Like all of this stuff is just cosmetic, like it's 949 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: and you're not gonna be tricked into thinking it's real. 950 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 1: I've I've been in cool VR like three D rooms 951 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: and like they're cool to look at for like ten minutes. Yeah, 952 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 1: any boring. Yeah, Like it's you're like, oh, yeah, it's 953 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: like the real world, but I can't touch anything. And 954 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: when they show you the stuff that's closer to real, 955 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: like the different like people chatting in the metaverse and whatever, 956 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,439 Speaker 1: it doesn't look fun. There's a there's a scene where 957 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: they like show people like watching a YouTube video together 958 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,839 Speaker 1: in the metaverse, and they're all like these disembodied upper 959 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,320 Speaker 1: torsos because of course VR sets can't can't read your eggs, 960 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: so it's like a bunch of torsos floating around a 961 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,879 Speaker 1: maximized YouTube video window. And it's like, I would rather 962 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: just show a friend my phone. I would even rather 963 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: text them a video and being in person with somebody 964 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: watching on a on a phone or even but even 965 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,440 Speaker 1: even if without Like it's the kind I think that 966 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: they're expecting that, Like everyone's kind of bummed when they 967 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,480 Speaker 1: send a friend video over signal or text and like 968 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: wait for them. No, I would rather do that than 969 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: this ship. I don't want to hang out as a 970 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: bunch of torsos around a YouTube We don't want have 971 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: to schedule of a VR session every time I want 972 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,480 Speaker 1: to share of YouTube video. No, that sounds horrible, and 973 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: it sounds like I would constantly have to be in VR. 974 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: Like he talks about how we're not trying to expand 975 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: screen time, but like, am I just waiting around in 976 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,280 Speaker 1: VR to like show friends? YouTube are really unclear about 977 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: how often you need to be in a headset, and 978 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of suspicious. It's almost like they don't 979 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: actually plan on doing anything. So I want to play 980 00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: another video that they claim to be a use case. 981 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,280 Speaker 1: And the way this video starts as like, this actual 982 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: person is in an actual real world concert for some 983 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: guy I've never heard of that Facebook. I think he's 984 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 1: he's some clearly some sort of musician with a following 985 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: Facebook hired to do a concert for this video. And 986 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: she like calls her friend on the metaverse, and her 987 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: friend digitally hops into the concert and they're like, the 988 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,880 Speaker 1: digital girl and the real girl are like dancing together 989 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: at the show, which I don't know whatever, Like that 990 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: is more possible than the basketball shit. Um, I mean yeah, 991 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: watching of having a like a VR version of standing 992 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: in a room where musician plays. Sure, I mean it's not. Yeah, yeah, 993 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 1: I would debate like whether or not it's doable. But 994 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: then after that they see, like during the concert, this 995 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,879 Speaker 1: like digital thing pops up. That's like, do you want 996 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 1: to go to a free after party? Um? And first off, 997 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: all of these after parties will cost money and they'll 998 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: all be dogshit, but um, that's the same with most 999 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 1: real after parties. So I guess that's that's at least 1000 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:59,320 Speaker 1: Facebook accurately delivering on the promise of the real world. Um, 1001 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: but I want to play, Like what happens in this 1002 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: metaverse after party that these two both hop into digitally 1003 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,400 Speaker 1: after one of them. So like as this starts, the 1004 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,440 Speaker 1: lady who was actually at the concert like sits down 1005 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: at home and gets into the metaverse. Imagine your best 1006 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:22,919 Speaker 1: friend is at a concert somewhere across the world. Uh oh, 1007 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: what if you could be there with her? Yeah? Yeah, real, yeah, 1008 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: real and clear? How that works? Yeah? Real quick? That 1009 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 1: was the first of the concert. See the holographic version. 1010 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 1: How the person see that, yeah, is wearing all that 1011 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,040 Speaker 1: she's dancing? Is everyone wearing VR and seeing the world 1012 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: through VR? Because I'll tell you about Like right now, 1013 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm I in our brain put on I put on 1014 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,920 Speaker 1: an oculus as a joke, and right now I have 1015 00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: it on the pass through, which means I can see 1016 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,320 Speaker 1: the real world through my It was in the oculus. 1017 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 1: And you know what it looks like? Shit, yeah, it's 1018 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: black and white. It's super grainy. I can't there has 1019 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 1: it has no like exposure range. Everything is like it's 1020 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: it's like you look like you're wearing a sunglasses case 1021 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: in your look like the world, but like I can't 1022 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: do anything because it all is like a horrible digital 1023 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: like like I can't like it's not really like can 1024 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 1: do anything. Aspects of this one like at some point 1025 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,880 Speaker 1: passed through mode will be in color and the latency 1026 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: will be low enough notice it right, like and there 1027 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,839 Speaker 1: won't be late and seeing like yeah, but it'll but 1028 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,400 Speaker 1: it's not gonna be still be with your human eyeball. 1029 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,000 Speaker 1: It'll it'll still be a thing. So that girl is 1030 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,920 Speaker 1: going to have to be at a concert dancing, getting 1031 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: super sweaty and like she's wearing something even if it's 1032 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,879 Speaker 1: as small as like regular glasses and she's not like 1033 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: guess better, but it's more to the end. But like, 1034 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: if people are actually gonnaveloped this technology, the real way 1035 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: to do it is with a R, not not VR, 1036 00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: because with a R, yeah, you could have put on 1037 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: like actual glasses and have like a person show up 1038 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: on the thing and make it look like they're there, 1039 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,239 Speaker 1: well actually still seeing the real world. That's gonna be 1040 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: the way to do it. Yeah, And I think that 1041 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: there's what to do it. Yeah, I think that's what 1042 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,719 Speaker 1: they're like claiming here, but it's really unclear how it's 1043 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: all going to interface, how the a R is going 1044 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: to interface with like the full VR stuff, Like, are 1045 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: we going to have two separate sets of gear, one 1046 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 1: for when we're in the real world and we can't 1047 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: be fully immersive and one for when we want to 1048 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: dive into the metaverse to turn it around? Do we 1049 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: always carry it around wherever we go? Yeah, but I 1050 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:31,960 Speaker 1: want to play the section. I sorry, I played the 1051 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,960 Speaker 1: video where they were at the concert just because it 1052 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: it looks very silly. I want to play the section 1053 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: where they're at the after party because it's it's dystopian 1054 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: as fuck. So here's the all all metaverse after party 1055 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,760 Speaker 1: that looks like a bunch of fucking connect avatars standing 1056 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 1: around and like a room made out of glowing neon 1057 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,439 Speaker 1: the digital room. Yeah, nobody's drinking, which is the only 1058 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,960 Speaker 1: good thing to do it in an after party that's 1059 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,680 Speaker 1: not cocaine. So from from the jump, I'm like, well, 1060 00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 1: what is the only good thing about an afterparty is 1061 00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,720 Speaker 1: if you want more drugs and all of the drugs 1062 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 1: plays are closed, maybe at the end you can hook 1063 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: up with a digital avatar. Yeah, it's anyway, I'm I'm 1064 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:12,239 Speaker 1: just gonna play this dog shit where this is wild? 1065 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: Is it? Is it? They're just slowly Dancy's a giraffeman. 1066 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:24,000 Speaker 1: Check this up charity for charity auction for n f 1067 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: T party that looks like ship your versions of your 1068 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:37,279 Speaker 1: favorite song. Yeah, it looks dog ship. Yeah. So it's 1069 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,399 Speaker 1: like it's it's a it's a horrible three D chat. 1070 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,640 Speaker 1: We already have these these already against and they're not 1071 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,520 Speaker 1: tons of fun on they're fun is when you're in 1072 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: first suits and you're walking around a fake city destroying it. 1073 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,960 Speaker 1: That's the only fun way to do this. And the 1074 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: thing they're showing in this is that like an autographed 1075 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: poster for the concert um is an n f T 1076 00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,719 Speaker 1: that you can buy for a charity auction, and like 1077 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: as they're looking at it, the actual musician walks by 1078 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,279 Speaker 1: and tells them it looks cool, and so they buy 1079 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: it and they have the musician come in for that 1080 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,600 Speaker 1: number one to like try to make this kind of like, yeah, 1081 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 1: you'll be able to do these digital events where you 1082 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,480 Speaker 1: can meet actual celebrities, which like, no, I'm sure celebrities 1083 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,400 Speaker 1: will agree to do q Q and as in the 1084 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,600 Speaker 1: multiverse like they do anywhere else. But they're not going 1085 00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,959 Speaker 1: to just walk around in some dogshit virtual part because 1086 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 1: they have money and they can do actual fun things 1087 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,279 Speaker 1: in the actual real world. They're gonna be fucking supermodels 1088 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: while skiing down a mountain in Lake Tahoe because they're rich. Um, 1089 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: they're going to be like flying in their private jets 1090 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,359 Speaker 1: or driving in a fucking yacht and eating lobster that's 1091 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,600 Speaker 1: been tortured. So it tastes better because they're rich, like 1092 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,279 Speaker 1: they're they're not going to be hanging out in a 1093 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,800 Speaker 1: digital lobby telling you that a fucking dogshit poster in 1094 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,160 Speaker 1: FT is cool and that you should buy it. Um, 1095 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,720 Speaker 1: unless you're a millionaire and they want your money because 1096 00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,439 Speaker 1: they're Nicolas Cage and they have an addiction to buying 1097 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 1: Tarannosaurus parts. I don't know, it's it's silly, it's it's iculous. Um. Yeah. 1098 00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: So one of the things that I thought about when 1099 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,760 Speaker 1: I was watching this is like the concept of metaverse culture. Um, 1100 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,839 Speaker 1: So like at some point, if this is a thing, 1101 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,520 Speaker 1: there's going to be like, like, if there ever is 1102 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,360 Speaker 1: a metaverse, people will develop a culture for it, just 1103 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,680 Speaker 1: like they've developed a culture for Twitter, a culture for Reddit, 1104 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: a culture for Facebook, just as there were like internet 1105 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:25,920 Speaker 1: culture or fantasy. Yeah, it happens with every community you 1106 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,880 Speaker 1: make online. Um and and that's the thing, Like there's 1107 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: no I see no space in this thing that Mark 1108 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 1: Zuckerberg has envisioned as he is presenting it for organic 1109 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,240 Speaker 1: evolution of None of the things that here are gonna 1110 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: make people want to form a culture around it because 1111 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,920 Speaker 1: it's all it looks like. It looks like boring yuppie ship, 1112 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,840 Speaker 1: all of it, but none of it is actually looks 1113 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,080 Speaker 1: cool or fun, and none of it, none of it 1114 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:52,759 Speaker 1: is he's not talking about any of it with like 1115 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: the there's no there's no openness in it, Like there's 1116 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,400 Speaker 1: no I don't see where a culture could evolve, and 1117 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,920 Speaker 1: if one does, it's going to be directly like in 1118 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: opposition to Facebook moderation. Um like yeah, um well yeah, 1119 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,279 Speaker 1: And I mean and there's there's an extense to which 1120 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,480 Speaker 1: like they can't write because like if you actually let 1121 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,239 Speaker 1: people just like do things, like imagine the griefing that's 1122 00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,759 Speaker 1: going to happen in one of these spaces, right, Like 1123 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,880 Speaker 1: every person's avatar is going to be like sixteen thousand dogs, 1124 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,000 Speaker 1: Like this is as literally this all it's gonna be 1125 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:25,880 Speaker 1: like this is this is this is what twitch looks like, right, 1126 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,280 Speaker 1: Like every Twitch chat is a guy posting a hydramate 1127 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,759 Speaker 1: of dongs. Like it's like none of none of this 1128 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,960 Speaker 1: can actually work if you let people do literally anything. 1129 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,439 Speaker 1: If you don't let people do anything, like why would 1130 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,480 Speaker 1: you're gonna want to do it? Yeah? Yeah, Like how 1131 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,200 Speaker 1: how are you going to sell them this crap? Like 1132 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,560 Speaker 1: once upon a time there was a game called Second Life. 1133 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,400 Speaker 1: I guess it still exists, but we're talking. People talked 1134 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,439 Speaker 1: about it the way they're talking about the metaverse now, 1135 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,440 Speaker 1: and that became just like it was never that, but 1136 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,839 Speaker 1: there was like this beautiful moment where this I think 1137 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,360 Speaker 1: and she Chung was her name, Um, this like culture writer, 1138 00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,240 Speaker 1: kind of expert lady was like doing a Q and 1139 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 1: A and Second Life that was like build as being 1140 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,600 Speaker 1: this like big event for the platform that was going 1141 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 1: to like make people take it seriously. And a bunch 1142 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,719 Speaker 1: of like users showed up and made a bunch of 1143 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,360 Speaker 1: floating dicks like float through the room during the interview, 1144 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,239 Speaker 1: so that like while this person was trying to talk 1145 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,320 Speaker 1: seriously about Second Life, just like floating cocks we zooming 1146 00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,720 Speaker 1: past her head. The entire time, and it was extremely funny, 1147 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,360 Speaker 1: and it's it's exactly the kind of thing like, yeah, Mark, 1148 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,840 Speaker 1: that's what all of this is going to look like. 1149 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,120 Speaker 1: Any mass event is going people will find a way 1150 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,720 Speaker 1: to grief it um and that will in fact be 1151 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:32,680 Speaker 1: the thing they most want to do. Is that will 1152 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,000 Speaker 1: be the actual culture part is fucking with Facebook. Yeah, 1153 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: but you know, but that's the part about that that sucks. 1154 00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,200 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you know, it's like you're your anniversal 1155 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: reality thing, right, So like, okay, what are people going 1156 00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 1: to do with a virtual reality? It's well, okay, you're 1157 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,960 Speaker 1: gonna get You're gonna get a bunch of neo Nazis 1158 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,840 Speaker 1: like figuring out a way to like show you just 1159 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: like the worst ship you've ever seen in your life. 1160 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 1: Like it's it's gonna it's gonna be all the stuff 1161 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: from the two thousands were like half of the Internet 1162 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:58,560 Speaker 1: was just like a video. Why this is the thousand 1163 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,640 Speaker 1: tends to like half of Twitter is just heading videos. 1164 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,160 Speaker 1: Now in VR, it's like, yeas in the metaverse, it's 1165 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,880 Speaker 1: going to be amazing. Some of that's even already happening 1166 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,920 Speaker 1: in like VR social media apps. I know of a 1167 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,520 Speaker 1: few specific nazis involved in January six, who networked and 1168 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:18,200 Speaker 1: met with people via of specifically VR chat. So like 1169 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,240 Speaker 1: this is this is already a thing, um and making 1170 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,919 Speaker 1: it broad and then like this small, you know, because 1171 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,320 Speaker 1: the VR right now is mostly just a small subsect 1172 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,640 Speaker 1: of like gaming culture right and people are into it 1173 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,200 Speaker 1: because there is VR games that are cool, like like 1174 00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: like Beat Saber is fun, right Um. In order for 1175 00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,000 Speaker 1: them to break this through into the mainstream, they need 1176 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,560 Speaker 1: to make it appealing some way, and the only way 1177 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,640 Speaker 1: they're making appealing right now is by doing meetings and 1178 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,760 Speaker 1: like concerts. So the next part I Want to Play 1179 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,200 Speaker 1: doesn't say a lot about the future marks trying to build, 1180 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,080 Speaker 1: but it's very funny because it's him sitting down with 1181 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: a woman who works in his gaming department and she's 1182 00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,840 Speaker 1: walking him through like what games are going to be 1183 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,960 Speaker 1: integrated into the Metal Verse, And it fucking reads like 1184 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,240 Speaker 1: and I think you should leave sketch, Like it feels 1185 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 1: like a sketch where the joke is that everyone is 1186 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,560 Speaker 1: awkward and not talking the way human beings talk. And 1187 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,280 Speaker 1: in case you can't watch this chunk of the video 1188 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 1: and it starts at about like nineteen thirty four. Um 1189 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,320 Speaker 1: in the actual Facebook video, all of the video games 1190 00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: they're talking about, like look, Dogship, they look like the 1191 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,280 Speaker 1: Kirkland brand of like popular like fighting games and FPS 1192 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,480 Speaker 1: s and stuff. None of them look very good. Um, 1193 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,800 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna play a clip from this because it's 1194 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 1: very funny. Can bailed out active communities. Beat Saber has 1195 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:40,360 Speaker 1: a passionate community who do I and just passed million 1196 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 1: dollars and pressed around a great example of the game 1197 00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:49,040 Speaker 1: that releasing fresh content. They've actually been looking on evolving 1198 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,200 Speaker 1: the way that you inter wrap with the tracks and 1199 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: feel the music. The way he's nodding in this, like 1200 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: his digital avatar looks more like a person. Well here's 1201 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,480 Speaker 1: some Beat Saber. Yeah, yeah, it looks like regular Beats Saber. Yeah. 1202 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:07,880 Speaker 1: But it's it's VR. It's it's already as VR. Yeah, 1203 01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,320 Speaker 1: it's already a VR game. You can't wait to play this, 1204 01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and you can already play an incredible artists to release 1205 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,000 Speaker 1: new music cuts all the time. You can do this 1206 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:20,080 Speaker 1: right now a little more than es been working more 1207 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,080 Speaker 1: of this metaverse prison Tad, but oh god, every scene 1208 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,480 Speaker 1: where she's talking to him and he's just like Bobblehead 1209 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,919 Speaker 1: nodding just a little bit, but not like it's he looks. 1210 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,840 Speaker 1: Mark actually will benefit from the metaverse, like outside of 1211 01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,640 Speaker 1: a financial thing, because a a sculpted three D representation 1212 01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:39,880 Speaker 1: of him will be a thousand times better. It looks 1213 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,959 Speaker 1: more human than he looks like more of a person. Yeah, 1214 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,640 Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's just like he's scripted it badly 1215 01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,240 Speaker 1: and he's a narcissist, so he has to be the 1216 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,360 Speaker 1: one to present it. Again, am I love beatsaber? Number one? 1217 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,960 Speaker 1: If Steve Jobs were doing this number one, he wouldn't 1218 01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,680 Speaker 1: because he understood what people wanted from technology. But if 1219 01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,040 Speaker 1: he were doing something like this, he would introduce like 1220 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,400 Speaker 1: little hunks of it and then he would have a 1221 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,840 Speaker 1: famous person who's charismatic introduced the rest of it, like yeah, 1222 01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,040 Speaker 1: that's like it wouldn't be It wouldn't introduce how I'm 1223 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,200 Speaker 1: sitting like a bobblehead listening, and he would introduced VR 1224 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: and a R into a way that actually integrats how 1225 01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,040 Speaker 1: people use the Internet, all right, because there is ways 1226 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,680 Speaker 1: that there is ways of doing this. It's not this 1227 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:24,640 Speaker 1: like super monetized n f T like bullshit holographic fake stuff. Yeah, 1228 01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,040 Speaker 1: and there's there's aspects of this, like he goes through 1229 01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,800 Speaker 1: after this, like there's a bunch of gaming stuff, which 1230 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,240 Speaker 1: is impossible for the reasons we've talked about. Then there's 1231 01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,240 Speaker 1: aspects of it that seemed cool, Like there's a scene 1232 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,840 Speaker 1: where like an architect gets onto his digital office and 1233 01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,240 Speaker 1: like somebody sends him, uh, schematics to a building they're making, 1234 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,240 Speaker 1: and he's able to generate a three D and walk 1235 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: around the building, Like Okay, that actually seems actually, it 1236 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,320 Speaker 1: seems like useful, Like you've developed a use case for 1237 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,840 Speaker 1: the all of the architects out there. It's it's I'm 1238 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 1: still not convinced that CAD would actually be better in 1239 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:59,080 Speaker 1: three D than it would be like, sure, it's the bowl. 1240 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,640 Speaker 1: I I think like it maybe someday, I think it 1241 01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,040 Speaker 1: could be. Like if you are one of the concreasingly 1242 01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,439 Speaker 1: small number of people who can afford to like build 1243 01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:09,880 Speaker 1: a house of your own, I can see why it 1244 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,360 Speaker 1: would be neat to be like, Okay, well let's do 1245 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:12,680 Speaker 1: a three D render of the house and I can 1246 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,480 Speaker 1: walk through and I could maybe make changes at the 1247 01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,840 Speaker 1: last moment. As I'm kind of experienced that is that 1248 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,600 Speaker 1: is definitely useful. Where a window is like, yeah, I 1249 01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: can that that seems like something number one technologically you 1250 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,200 Speaker 1: could do that more or less. Now, um, I don't 1251 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,000 Speaker 1: think it's it's not gonna be as instantaneous as this, 1252 01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:29,680 Speaker 1: but if you give it time to render, it could 1253 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,360 Speaker 1: be done. And it it's something that a number of 1254 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,000 Speaker 1: people might find useful. But again that's a niche product 1255 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: because like eighteen people in our generation are frying homes. 1256 01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,400 Speaker 1: I mean yeah. And also it's it's it's expensive to 1257 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,200 Speaker 1: develop because you would have just modeling an actual real 1258 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,800 Speaker 1: life location is a lot of work. Um Now there 1259 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,440 Speaker 1: is there is a lot of a lot of technology 1260 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,280 Speaker 1: that's getting way better at it by machine um and 1261 01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,680 Speaker 1: like basically filming a space and and the community can 1262 01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,600 Speaker 1: reconstruct it pretty accurately. Um that that that is a 1263 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,600 Speaker 1: growing field. But still it is is it's a very 1264 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,680 Speaker 1: niche you know area at least a yeah, so I 1265 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,480 Speaker 1: the thing that is so anyway, there's aspects of this 1266 01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,320 Speaker 1: that are ridiculous, aspects of this that seem neat, But 1267 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,280 Speaker 1: the longer you watch it, the thing that comes becomes 1268 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:20,400 Speaker 1: really clear is that all he's really advertising is mass surveillance. Yeah, 1269 01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,800 Speaker 1: there's a point in this video where they're showing you 1270 01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,640 Speaker 1: how they can like map a real world location, so 1271 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,280 Speaker 1: you can be in your actual house, put on your 1272 01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:31,720 Speaker 1: VR glasses, um, and it can map the your actual 1273 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,520 Speaker 1: home digitally in real time. And as you and as 1274 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,320 Speaker 1: you pick up real things in your house, you you 1275 01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,040 Speaker 1: see them being picked up in VR and presumably other 1276 01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,000 Speaker 1: people in the VR could see it. Which we are 1277 01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,480 Speaker 1: not quite there yet. I stay pretty in VR technology. 1278 01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,400 Speaker 1: We're getting close to this, but we're not. We're not 1279 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,640 Speaker 1: quite there. I mean we're we're we're actually we actually 1280 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,040 Speaker 1: are where what they show in the video. And I'm 1281 01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,960 Speaker 1: gonna play you a second from it because I want 1282 01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:55,760 Speaker 1: to show you something at least, I mean, like like 1283 01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,040 Speaker 1: consumer products. We're not We're not at this point yet. Yeah, 1284 01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,480 Speaker 1: and I want to show you, uh where we are 1285 01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 1: because this video they're showing like actual footage. So they 1286 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,240 Speaker 1: have built this thing. But there's a catch and so 1287 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna play it right now out the researcher. 1288 01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,160 Speaker 1: So what's critical here is that this is all happening 1289 01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,280 Speaker 1: in real time. So if you I've just paused it, 1290 01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:19,880 Speaker 1: well you've got here. On one side, there's a woman 1291 01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:23,200 Speaker 1: in a real like house sitting and picking up like 1292 01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,160 Speaker 1: a toy home on her couch, and then on the 1293 01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,400 Speaker 1: left you see the VR version of her house, which 1294 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,800 Speaker 1: looks close to photo realistic, and like the house that 1295 01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: she's holding in the real world is floating in the 1296 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,920 Speaker 1: same way that she's holding it, Like her body isn't there, 1297 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,240 Speaker 1: like the stuff she's interacting with is. But if you 1298 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,280 Speaker 1: look at the house she's holding, the reason that they're 1299 01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:40,800 Speaker 1: able to do this and it really does work is 1300 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,920 Speaker 1: it's covered in censors. And and actually every single thing 1301 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,520 Speaker 1: in the real house is covered in sensors because that's 1302 01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,720 Speaker 1: the only way for this to everything now moving is 1303 01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,320 Speaker 1: covered in sensors. Yeah, yeah, and it it is impressive, 1304 01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,640 Speaker 1: like as a proof of concept, like this, this is here, 1305 01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,200 Speaker 1: we can do this, but like it's still light years 1306 01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,520 Speaker 1: away from practical. And more to the point, when you 1307 01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,000 Speaker 1: look at this, you realize that, like, well, if this 1308 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,520 Speaker 1: is ever going to work, the only way to make 1309 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:07,840 Speaker 1: it work is for Facebook, through this service, to map 1310 01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:13,240 Speaker 1: your entire home in real time, every hour of all day. 1311 01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,200 Speaker 1: And they also go on to talk about like how 1312 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,520 Speaker 1: you're going to have just your commands and like you'll 1313 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,600 Speaker 1: be able to like make an expression or like a 1314 01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,200 Speaker 1: hand gesture and that will do things, which means that like, 1315 01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,520 Speaker 1: this service isn't just learning what's in your home and 1316 01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,160 Speaker 1: what you do with the things in your home. It's 1317 01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,160 Speaker 1: it's learning your facial expressions and your gestures and like 1318 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,080 Speaker 1: what they mean and interpreting those at all times. I 1319 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,160 Speaker 1: can kind of explain where oculus which is over Facebook. 1320 01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:41,760 Speaker 1: I think they're technically renaming Oculus spring to just calling 1321 01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,800 Speaker 1: it the metic quest. But what wait, wait, wait, the 1322 01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,320 Speaker 1: medical quest that that that's that's what they're calling it 1323 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,560 Speaker 1: instead of instead of oculacies. Um, so where where that 1324 01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 1: right now? Is basically, uh, the only kind of real 1325 01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,080 Speaker 1: world interactivity that they have for their our headsets. Again 1326 01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:02,800 Speaker 1: for like the consumer models, I don't know, it's in 1327 01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:06,240 Speaker 1: length development. Um is hand tracking. This this is the 1328 01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:07,680 Speaker 1: thing they've been working on for a long time. Is 1329 01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,240 Speaker 1: that you put on the headset and the camera like 1330 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,120 Speaker 1: the cameras and depth sensors built into the headset can 1331 01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,240 Speaker 1: see your hands and like you said, you have like 1332 01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,960 Speaker 1: gesture controls where you can do certain things in your 1333 01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,280 Speaker 1: hand and it will make certain things happen. This is 1334 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,360 Speaker 1: the only interactivity that that we have. It's okay, it's 1335 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,440 Speaker 1: not perfect, like it's it is. It is better than 1336 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the other hand tracking systems from other companies, 1337 01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,200 Speaker 1: but like it's it's it is very much a work 1338 01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,640 Speaker 1: in progress. UM. And the way to make this work 1339 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,800 Speaker 1: is by is very good depth sensing cameras, which I 1340 01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,680 Speaker 1: think Apple makes some of the best ones right now 1341 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,160 Speaker 1: that they put into the iPhone. Uh. The other way 1342 01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,840 Speaker 1: of doing this is with lighthouses. So this is like 1343 01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:49,960 Speaker 1: separate um separate like uh, separate cameras that you set 1344 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,320 Speaker 1: up around the corners of your house that project different 1345 01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,040 Speaker 1: like wavelengths of light and they get it received back, 1346 01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,720 Speaker 1: so they can map your house UM with not just 1347 01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,280 Speaker 1: cameras but also like in like infrared sensors and that 1348 01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:03,920 Speaker 1: kind of thing. So these are these are like the 1349 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,960 Speaker 1: two methods of doing it. Facebook is really trying to 1350 01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,560 Speaker 1: go full on, full on to the everything is built 1351 01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:13,760 Speaker 1: into the headset thing. So no so no, like lighthouses, 1352 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,680 Speaker 1: everything is just depth depth sensing cameras. So that's why 1353 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,440 Speaker 1: they're working on hand tracking so much, because that's something 1354 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,320 Speaker 1: you can actually do. But like, I can't pick up anything, um, 1355 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,120 Speaker 1: Like the only thing I can pick up is my controllers, 1356 01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:27,640 Speaker 1: which because they they have censors built in. They can 1357 01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,120 Speaker 1: be rendered in the actual game the same way like 1358 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,120 Speaker 1: my hand can be. So that that that's where they're at. 1359 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:36,000 Speaker 1: For that for the consumer products get more than it's 1360 01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,360 Speaker 1: getting developed. Again, where they're at. You think about what 1361 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,680 Speaker 1: Facebook has already done with the information you provided, and 1362 01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,640 Speaker 1: how so much of their money comes from selling your data. Um. 1363 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,480 Speaker 1: The only way for this to work that they've they've 1364 01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,760 Speaker 1: passed are always watching everything, every moment of your existence, 1365 01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,919 Speaker 1: including like your micro expressions, which is why I keep 1366 01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:59,560 Speaker 1: my oculence in the tiny little box here. And here's 1367 01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,680 Speaker 1: the thing. If they were to actually develop the technology, 1368 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,400 Speaker 1: which I don't think is impossible, although it's not particularly close, UM, 1369 01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,680 Speaker 1: it's not going to be cheap to store all that. 1370 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,960 Speaker 1: So in order to make it a tile outside, well, 1371 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:14,360 Speaker 1: it's going to be cloud based. But in order to 1372 01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:20,280 Speaker 1: make it like cloud isn't free, UM subscription probably, I 1373 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,960 Speaker 1: think you'll pay some, but I think in order to 1374 01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,280 Speaker 1: make it affordable, UM, so that more people are on it, 1375 01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,479 Speaker 1: they're just going to sell your data in a way 1376 01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,000 Speaker 1: that has never been in a and and the government 1377 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,120 Speaker 1: will have access to it like it is. It's actually 1378 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:38,040 Speaker 1: like the thing that he is actually proposing here is 1379 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,040 Speaker 1: I want to build a machine god that knows your sins, 1380 01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,840 Speaker 1: like that knows when your heart rate is elevated, like 1381 01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,559 Speaker 1: before you smile. That can predict like when you're about 1382 01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,840 Speaker 1: to make a gesture or laugh because it is so 1383 01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:57,200 Speaker 1: accurately mapped your body and motions. Um, it's actually a nightmare. 1384 01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,559 Speaker 1: Like when you really think about what he is trying 1385 01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,760 Speaker 1: to build here and it's like, well, what, what's what 1386 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,799 Speaker 1: what's the actual use case for this? And it's like, well, okay, 1387 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:06,719 Speaker 1: so you have you have a bunch of special forces guys, 1388 01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,720 Speaker 1: you put them in a VR thing and then you 1389 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,280 Speaker 1: know you can you can you can you can have 1390 01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:12,320 Speaker 1: them drill on knowing exactly where all the rooms in 1391 01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:14,760 Speaker 1: the houses and where everyone is in where everyone is 1392 01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,000 Speaker 1: in a house any given time. It's like, oh, hey, 1393 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,000 Speaker 1: this this is gonna be great. This is yeah, it's 1394 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,400 Speaker 1: it's great. Yeah, it's it's really cool. Um, they have 1395 01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,400 Speaker 1: a So there is a little bit here briefly about 1396 01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,320 Speaker 1: where like Mark talks about how the last year or 1397 01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,080 Speaker 1: so has been um fucking uh. The term he uses 1398 01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:39,360 Speaker 1: is humbling for them. Oh god, yeah, and you you 1399 01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,200 Speaker 1: kind of think that like he's about to say that, like, oh, 1400 01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:47,240 Speaker 1: because we we made life dramatically worse and our service 1401 01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,880 Speaker 1: was integral in several ethnic cleansings and a couple of 1402 01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,280 Speaker 1: civil wars and like hate crimes on a scale that 1403 01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,760 Speaker 1: was unimaginable before it really came into being, or that 1404 01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,599 Speaker 1: we thought had been at least we thought had been 1405 01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,160 Speaker 1: consigned into a century or so ago before Facebook came 1406 01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,080 Speaker 1: into being. But no, that's not why it's humbling. Why 1407 01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,559 Speaker 1: he says it's been humbling is that Facebook has been 1408 01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,599 Speaker 1: developing services for other platforms like the App Store, where 1409 01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,280 Speaker 1: they don't have total control, and that sucks. And that's 1410 01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:15,479 Speaker 1: like the thing that that's the that's him admitting a 1411 01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:16,960 Speaker 1: little bit that like a big part of this is 1412 01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,720 Speaker 1: they're trying to build a service the entire Internet gets 1413 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,599 Speaker 1: filtered through that they completely control, so that they are 1414 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:27,040 Speaker 1: never in anyone else's wheelhouse, like everything is done through Facebook. 1415 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,080 Speaker 1: And with Facebook's approval as opposed to them, they want 1416 01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:33,960 Speaker 1: to face Facebook. Facebook is going to become the state. Yeah, 1417 01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,719 Speaker 1: And that's the thing that it says so much about 1418 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,400 Speaker 1: Mark that he's like, what's humbling, isn't all of the 1419 01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,200 Speaker 1: mistakes I've made it's that periodically I have not had 1420 01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:46,960 Speaker 1: total control. Um. It's great. Um. He then from immediately 1421 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,920 Speaker 1: from this says that if we all work at it, 1422 01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,599 Speaker 1: all of us, the metaverse can reach a billion people 1423 01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:57,440 Speaker 1: by the next decade. Um, which is very funny. Um 1424 01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,360 Speaker 1: that he thinks that that's like an enticing fuck thing. 1425 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,920 Speaker 1: So one of the use cases they try to present 1426 01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,120 Speaker 1: is they have a beauty influencer who like made like 1427 01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,760 Speaker 1: a fucking candle line or something, uh, that she's sold 1428 01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram and she's she's very successful in Instagram. They 1429 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,360 Speaker 1: bring this lady in number one. As soon as they 1430 01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,400 Speaker 1: started interviewing her, it's it's it's what I was saying about. 1431 01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,360 Speaker 1: You have a hire a celebrity to do this mark, 1432 01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,360 Speaker 1: you're not charismatic. She's immediately the most engaging person in 1433 01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,120 Speaker 1: the entire presentation because she's a successful in like she's 1434 01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,240 Speaker 1: someone who understands how she appears on camera, how to 1435 01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,360 Speaker 1: make herself seem likable on camera, how to like interact 1436 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,600 Speaker 1: with the world on a camera, and nobody else in 1437 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,920 Speaker 1: this video understands that. Um, which is just funny. It's 1438 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,240 Speaker 1: not particularly like say anything other than that, like, you 1439 01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:44,679 Speaker 1: have professionals do difficult things. Mark, don't don't hire your weird, 1440 01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,920 Speaker 1: gawky engineering staff to like be the faces of this thing. 1441 01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:51,120 Speaker 1: They're not good at this, and neither are you. I 1442 01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:52,680 Speaker 1: just want to point out. So he said that, like 1443 01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,840 Speaker 1: he can get one billion people the next decade. So 1444 01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,679 Speaker 1: far there's only been sixteen million Vier headsets sold. Ever. Yeah, 1445 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,960 Speaker 1: so getting that to the point of a billion it 1446 01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,680 Speaker 1: seems like quite quite the challenge. I mean, it is 1447 01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,320 Speaker 1: a challenge, but you could look at like how quickly 1448 01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,960 Speaker 1: smartphones went from Yeah, except smartphones were useful in improving 1449 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,840 Speaker 1: the world in very obvious ways, whereas the metaverse and 1450 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,800 Speaker 1: even v our in general doesn't improve the world for 1451 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,240 Speaker 1: most people in obvious ways. Yeah, but that that's kind 1452 01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:22,320 Speaker 1: of what I'm saying, is that, like the thing that 1453 01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,000 Speaker 1: is stupid and doomed about this isn't like, oh, you 1454 01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:26,920 Speaker 1: would have to sell so many headsets. If it was 1455 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,680 Speaker 1: legitimately something every single person wanted on their head, they 1456 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,439 Speaker 1: would sell a billion. They would sell a billion in 1457 01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,000 Speaker 1: a couple of years, you know. Um, but they haven't 1458 01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,680 Speaker 1: made that. Look like like, so this this beauty influencer 1459 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,960 Speaker 1: thing is an example of them trying to like explain 1460 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,880 Speaker 1: here's something that people will find cool about the metaverse. Um, 1461 01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:46,360 Speaker 1: and the way they do it is like talking about 1462 01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:48,800 Speaker 1: how you can have a digital storefront where like people 1463 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,800 Speaker 1: can't just buy products, but they can interact with you. Um. 1464 01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:53,519 Speaker 1: She talks about how it will be good for letting 1465 01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,559 Speaker 1: her interact with their fans, but like bringing them into 1466 01:12:55,600 --> 01:13:01,200 Speaker 1: my home, which sounds like we love our fans, but like, no, 1467 01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:06,439 Speaker 1: I do not want anyone from adam home. UM. I 1468 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,880 Speaker 1: barely want my friends in my home half the time. 1469 01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:13,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Um. They didn't present us with a use 1470 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:15,679 Speaker 1: case of how a brand in this case, this candle 1471 01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:17,920 Speaker 1: company this lady made that's big on Instagram could release 1472 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:20,760 Speaker 1: like a new candle flavor and launch a digital experience 1473 01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,360 Speaker 1: with it so you can buy both real and digital products. 1474 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,479 Speaker 1: It's kind of unclear in the video whether or not 1475 01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:27,840 Speaker 1: you're paying for the digital experience or is it like 1476 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,200 Speaker 1: free when you buy the candle. Um. Yeah, it's like, 1477 01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,479 Speaker 1: I don't games is like developing. It is like you know, 1478 01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,559 Speaker 1: dropping products at the same time in the real world 1479 01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,600 Speaker 1: in the digital world, but like the digital version is 1480 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,519 Speaker 1: free because it's like because it's like an ad right, 1481 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,800 Speaker 1: you could try something out virtually before you buy it physically. 1482 01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,519 Speaker 1: And that's what like Epic Games is doing. And honestly, 1483 01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,839 Speaker 1: I think epics version of the Metavors is slightly more hinged. 1484 01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:53,160 Speaker 1: They understand more what people actually want. Yeah, because like 1485 01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:55,400 Speaker 1: all the stuff they're trying with Fortnite again, it doesn't 1486 01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,479 Speaker 1: seem fun for me, but at least it's like an 1487 01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:01,480 Speaker 1: extension of how people use the Internet already has. Facebook's 1488 01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:05,640 Speaker 1: is not that Yeah. And and Mark never really understood 1489 01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:09,560 Speaker 1: what people wanted. He he accidentally did basically want to 1490 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,200 Speaker 1: make something else, Like he wanted a place to share 1491 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,120 Speaker 1: pictures of ladies he thought was hot. Um, and he 1492 01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,519 Speaker 1: accidentally built a thing that like gave people something they 1493 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,240 Speaker 1: did one, which was a way to stay in contact 1494 01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,240 Speaker 1: with their friends from high school in college as they 1495 01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,759 Speaker 1: grew older, right, Like that was the thing about Facebook 1496 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,639 Speaker 1: that made it get huge originally. Um. And he hasn't 1497 01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:29,559 Speaker 1: learned anything since he's just been smart. He's he's hired 1498 01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,479 Speaker 1: people who are smart enough to be like, hey, Instagram 1499 01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:32,920 Speaker 1: is probably going to be a big deal by that, 1500 01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,639 Speaker 1: you know, Um like that that, but I haven't seen 1501 01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:40,400 Speaker 1: anything that's made me think like Mark gets what people 1502 01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,240 Speaker 1: want and this has just made it clear that like 1503 01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,439 Speaker 1: he absolutely doesn't. So I want to play this video 1504 01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,160 Speaker 1: of like this is the digital experience to go with 1505 01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,040 Speaker 1: this fucking candle that they're they're framing is like a 1506 01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,479 Speaker 1: piece of art that everybody's gonna want to interact with 1507 01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:56,880 Speaker 1: who likes candles. It's it's incredible because it again feels 1508 01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,160 Speaker 1: like a nightmare. I am. I am a big candle fan. 1509 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,880 Speaker 1: So him here, what iFly effect to transports us something 1510 01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:13,040 Speaker 1: to magic? It's like a shitty arborretum. I don't do 1511 01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,960 Speaker 1: what it has to do with candles. It's Jackie, as 1512 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:20,080 Speaker 1: we walked in this amazing world. What I just feel 1513 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:24,160 Speaker 1: like this is like endless possibilities of my imaginations. I 1514 01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:27,640 Speaker 1: can't even begin to imagine. But I don't understand what 1515 01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,040 Speaker 1: has that to do with candles? Yeah, like they have again, 1516 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,439 Speaker 1: like there's I can walk around, like why can't I 1517 01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:36,600 Speaker 1: can to imagine all the things people are going to 1518 01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:39,320 Speaker 1: I can walk around digital spaces and my quest it's 1519 01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,400 Speaker 1: again it's fun for like thirty seconds and then you 1520 01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:43,000 Speaker 1: see everything and you're like, well, I can't touch it 1521 01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,000 Speaker 1: or smell it or actually feel it or do anything. 1522 01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,080 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go back and have a soda and 1523 01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:49,639 Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, play and like read a book 1524 01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:53,240 Speaker 1: or something. And they've brought in this influencer who like 1525 01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:55,640 Speaker 1: used one of their other services in a way they 1526 01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,320 Speaker 1: hadn't initially intended and was successful in that, which is 1527 01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:00,599 Speaker 1: not a bad idea in its surface, Like, yeah, bring 1528 01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,960 Speaker 1: in creative people and let them play around and make 1529 01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,800 Speaker 1: something new to show people how exciting this is. Right, 1530 01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,400 Speaker 1: that's the smart thing to do. But all they've presented 1531 01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,280 Speaker 1: is like, look, it's a tiny little weird arboretum. You 1532 01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,320 Speaker 1: can walk around and after buying a candle, and it's like, well, 1533 01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,320 Speaker 1: I like candles, but that's not fun. That doesn't sound 1534 01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,479 Speaker 1: like an addition candle. Part of the metaverse is like 1535 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:25,280 Speaker 1: making like interactivity more like being able to interact with 1536 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,280 Speaker 1: with digital things, and like that's not interacting. That's just 1537 01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,400 Speaker 1: walking around like unless I can like take of like 1538 01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:35,120 Speaker 1: a bazooka and blow up our like the candle. You know, 1539 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,320 Speaker 1: Like that's like you have to do something like all 1540 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,519 Speaker 1: of the VR games that are fun, like like like 1541 01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,599 Speaker 1: like like a super Hot or something like something that's 1542 01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,160 Speaker 1: about you know, picking up objects in VR and throwing 1543 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,800 Speaker 1: them at people. That's fun and you like, also, unless 1544 01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:51,599 Speaker 1: I can pick up this candle and it's all people 1545 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,439 Speaker 1: with it in the game, I don't see what really 1546 01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,760 Speaker 1: the dry like, what's what's exciting about this? You were 1547 01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:00,160 Speaker 1: saying something, Chris, Oh, I guess you know that thing 1548 01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:01,720 Speaker 1: I keep coming back to with this is it the 1549 01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:03,720 Speaker 1: only way this and this literally any of this makes 1550 01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:05,479 Speaker 1: any sense if it's just like a chip in your 1551 01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,560 Speaker 1: brain just because all of it, all of it is 1552 01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:10,120 Speaker 1: built around that. But it's but it's not like it 1553 01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,200 Speaker 1: can't be like we don't the technology for that won't 1554 01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,320 Speaker 1: exist for like ages and so there it's like it's 1555 01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,800 Speaker 1: it's like they're they're selling some of it definitely is 1556 01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,240 Speaker 1: headset based, like that arboretum thing, but a lot of it. 1557 01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,719 Speaker 1: But even yeah, but like I mean I think even 1558 01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,719 Speaker 1: that right, like okay, so why would you want like yeah, 1559 01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:27,800 Speaker 1: you're if you're saying, like why would you It's like, Okay, 1560 01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:31,360 Speaker 1: it's interesting for like ten minutes, right. The only way 1561 01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:33,000 Speaker 1: that would be like the only way that would be 1562 01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,080 Speaker 1: an actually interesting experience is if you could get all 1563 01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,680 Speaker 1: the false century experience you can smell and feel yeah, right, 1564 01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:39,200 Speaker 1: and that that's that's that's like, that's that's the thing 1565 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:40,880 Speaker 1: where like something only makes sense if it's like a 1566 01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:42,559 Speaker 1: brain ship. Well, I mean there's there's two versions. There's 1567 01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 1: one it's a brain ship, or two it's a video game. 1568 01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:46,240 Speaker 1: And at the game is doing the thing where it's 1569 01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,920 Speaker 1: a video game, and that's slightly Mary Yeah, yeah, but 1570 01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,800 Speaker 1: like they don't you know, but they're they're trying to 1571 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,479 Speaker 1: sell like and I think part of what's going on 1572 01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,120 Speaker 1: here is also just like this is this is designed 1573 01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:02,040 Speaker 1: to like like this is designed to like trick Silicon 1574 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:06,840 Speaker 1: Valley investors. Yes, that is like yeah, and those people, 1575 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:08,760 Speaker 1: I think are just gonna be like, oh well, we'll 1576 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:10,720 Speaker 1: have brain ships eventually, and so we'll just we'll talk 1577 01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,880 Speaker 1: about probably talk about that part more at the end, 1578 01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,280 Speaker 1: because yeah, this is just a scam. This is just 1579 01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:17,920 Speaker 1: a scam. And it is like again to talk about 1580 01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,280 Speaker 1: like the dystopian aspects of this, Chris, as you brought up. 1581 01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,280 Speaker 1: One of the aspects is that like it's a complete 1582 01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,040 Speaker 1: panopticon of perfect surveillance if they actually make this thing, 1583 01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,200 Speaker 1: and number two is the only way to do most 1584 01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:31,000 Speaker 1: of what they're talking about that's cool is to give 1585 01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,760 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg physical control over human beings brain chemistry on 1586 01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,360 Speaker 1: a global scale, which I think it is a bad idea. 1587 01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:41,360 Speaker 1: Not Gonn for that. I don't I don't want to 1588 01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,240 Speaker 1: walk around in a weird candle room that badly. Like 1589 01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:47,519 Speaker 1: to your point Chris about like how it's you know, 1590 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,679 Speaker 1: there's no sensory stuff. Is like like the most popular 1591 01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,320 Speaker 1: VR games, the reason why they work so well, there's 1592 01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:55,200 Speaker 1: why that they don't, like Break the Uncanny Valley is 1593 01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,080 Speaker 1: because you're in like a barren land, like you know, 1594 01:18:57,240 --> 01:18:59,519 Speaker 1: thet Saber. You're not in a place you know you're 1595 01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:01,160 Speaker 1: in the in the game in the face for like 1596 01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:07,320 Speaker 1: for Super Hot, you're in like whitewashed abstract like concrete spaces, right, 1597 01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,280 Speaker 1: so like there's nothing, there is nothing to smell or 1598 01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,639 Speaker 1: feels like you don't feel like you're missing anything because 1599 01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,040 Speaker 1: you're in a very like stripped down version of reality. 1600 01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:16,840 Speaker 1: There is a really good of your game. I forget 1601 01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:18,200 Speaker 1: what it's called, but it's it's based on like an 1602 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,640 Speaker 1: office and you're like fighting robots to break out of 1603 01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:23,759 Speaker 1: like this capitalist office room. And it's cool because like, yeah, 1604 01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:25,880 Speaker 1: it's miserable because it's like it's like an office space. 1605 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:27,920 Speaker 1: You feel like you're in an office because it's nothing 1606 01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,280 Speaker 1: about it's exciting right there. Games that are in like 1607 01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:34,599 Speaker 1: lush worlds, they feel so much more like disconnected because 1608 01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:35,760 Speaker 1: you have like a weird like you have, you have 1609 01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,040 Speaker 1: like you have like an uncanny valley thing, but instead 1610 01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,280 Speaker 1: of like a face or a person, it's like an environment. 1611 01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:42,519 Speaker 1: We're running law on time. I want to move to 1612 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,840 Speaker 1: something that I think is important here, which is there 1613 01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:46,840 Speaker 1: is one moment in this video where they try to 1614 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,720 Speaker 1: address the fact that they've done a tremendous amount of 1615 01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:52,680 Speaker 1: damage to the world and they have repeatedly failed to 1616 01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,800 Speaker 1: like uh anticipate dangers that their services have, so they 1617 01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:58,240 Speaker 1: need to like deal with that at some point. And 1618 01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,000 Speaker 1: this is like, well, what about if, like what about 1619 01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,160 Speaker 1: bad things that could happen? What if like what about 1620 01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,240 Speaker 1: like unintended things? What about like ways in which this 1621 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:06,800 Speaker 1: could be harmful to society that you haven't foreseen. So, 1622 01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,080 Speaker 1: because they're not completely stupid, in order to address that, 1623 01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:13,559 Speaker 1: they bring on a well dressed uh or not well dressed, 1624 01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,320 Speaker 1: but they bring on like a friendly British man who 1625 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,920 Speaker 1: kind of kind of reads as like a like a 1626 01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:22,040 Speaker 1: scientific kind of expert guy. They bring on a charming 1627 01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 1: British person to like talk about how they're going to 1628 01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,679 Speaker 1: not not destroy the world, and this is very telling 1629 01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:31,320 Speaker 1: so far. It's it's such visionary stuff. But as you 1630 01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:35,120 Speaker 1: mentioned early on, with all big technological advances, there are 1631 01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:38,800 Speaker 1: inevitably going to be in all sorts of challenges and uncertainties. 1632 01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,680 Speaker 1: And I know you've talked about this a bit already, 1633 01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,600 Speaker 1: but people want to know how we're going to do 1634 01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,680 Speaker 1: all this in a responsible way, and especially that we 1635 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,320 Speaker 1: play our part in helping to keep people safe and 1636 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,559 Speaker 1: protect their privacy online. Yeah, that's right, this is incredibly important. 1637 01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,280 Speaker 1: The way I look at it is that in the past, 1638 01:20:56,320 --> 01:21:00,599 Speaker 1: the speed that new technologies emerged sometimes left Polish makers 1639 01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,800 Speaker 1: and regulators playing catch up. So on the one hand, 1640 01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:07,000 Speaker 1: companies get accused of charging ahead too quickly, and on 1641 01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:10,120 Speaker 1: the other, tech people feel that progress can't afford to 1642 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,880 Speaker 1: wait for the slower pace of regulation. And I really 1643 01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:16,000 Speaker 1: think that it doesn't have to be the case this 1644 01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,120 Speaker 1: time around, because we have years until the metaverse we 1645 01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,439 Speaker 1: envision is fully realized. So this is the start of 1646 01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:27,519 Speaker 1: the journey, not the end. So that's telling uh that 1647 01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,439 Speaker 1: he's like, we don't need to worry about like we 1648 01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:35,200 Speaker 1: don't need it. Like it'll be it'll get regulated properly, 1649 01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:37,080 Speaker 1: it'll be safe enough because it's going to take so 1650 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,559 Speaker 1: long to figure all this out that surely we will 1651 01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,559 Speaker 1: anticipate and deal with all of the potentially toxic side 1652 01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:45,640 Speaker 1: effects of this technology ahead of time. Um. And if 1653 01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,479 Speaker 1: you believe that, I would say, take a look at 1654 01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,600 Speaker 1: Facebook's track record with that kind of thing. Um, But 1655 01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,000 Speaker 1: they are smart and having a charming British man do it, 1656 01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,080 Speaker 1: that's the right guy to have in the only aspect 1657 01:21:57,120 --> 01:21:58,960 Speaker 1: of good casting in this That is the right guy 1658 01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:01,360 Speaker 1: to have come on and try to allay people's fears 1659 01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,720 Speaker 1: that this will destroy society. You bring you bring a 1660 01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:06,720 Speaker 1: charming British man in, you know, that's how you do 1661 01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,360 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um, that's when I get canceled 1662 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:13,160 Speaker 1: for the things I've been doing overseas. Um, I'm gonna 1663 01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:15,840 Speaker 1: hire a British person to defend myself. Do they make 1664 01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,759 Speaker 1: any more comments about like a R glasses or VR 1665 01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 1: quite a few. I wanted to move on to that. Um, 1666 01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,639 Speaker 1: even though yeah, we're we're so um they talk about 1667 01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,400 Speaker 1: they have a whole section where they're they're talking about 1668 01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:31,080 Speaker 1: the actual glasses they have. So they announced the number 1669 01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:34,720 Speaker 1: one they have a project. The goal, as he repeatedly says, 1670 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,439 Speaker 1: is to make a quote normal, good looking pair of 1671 01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:41,519 Speaker 1: glasses that do all this stuff, which is yeah, um, 1672 01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:43,200 Speaker 1: and he he does. In order as like a proof 1673 01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,519 Speaker 1: of concept, he shows us these a R ray bands 1674 01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,400 Speaker 1: that actually look legitimately rad They look like normal at 1675 01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:51,360 Speaker 1: least the privn't touched a pair of these in my hands, 1676 01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,040 Speaker 1: but the the the videos that are supposed to be 1677 01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:55,960 Speaker 1: these real products show a pair of what looked like 1678 01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,400 Speaker 1: normal ray bands that you can take pictures and videos with, 1679 01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:00,360 Speaker 1: you can answer phone calls on, you could do like 1680 01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:02,840 Speaker 1: video phone calls on them. And actually that they seem 1681 01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:06,599 Speaker 1: neat and like they look like normal glasses. Um, and 1682 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:10,639 Speaker 1: that is pretty cool. Um. They go kind of pivot 1683 01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:12,920 Speaker 1: from that to announcing that like they have this new thing, 1684 01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,759 Speaker 1: project nizar Um, which oh I looked up what nazarre 1685 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,160 Speaker 1: means a little bit ago. It's probably dystopian. Uh No, 1686 01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:24,080 Speaker 1: I think it was just yeah, uh, it's a town 1687 01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:25,760 Speaker 1: or it's a surf spot, right, it's a place and 1688 01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:28,439 Speaker 1: I think Portugal where there's like great waves and Mark 1689 01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,519 Speaker 1: Zuckerberg is really into surfing. He plays a surfing game 1690 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,200 Speaker 1: at one point in this That is one of the 1691 01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,360 Speaker 1: most um embarrassing things. Embarrassing thing because I've seen in 1692 01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:39,920 Speaker 1: my entire fucking life. Um. But yeah, So Project Nazar 1693 01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:41,679 Speaker 1: is that they're supposed to be like the first true 1694 01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:44,880 Speaker 1: like VR glasses. So they do the good thing, which 1695 01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,120 Speaker 1: is like, here's the real technology, these ray bands, and look, 1696 01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:50,240 Speaker 1: these are pretty neat. Obviously that doesn't come close to 1697 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:53,479 Speaker 1: what they're promising. Um, and this whole thing where they 1698 01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:56,439 Speaker 1: talk about what the glasses, which they say they're making 1699 01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:58,720 Speaker 1: good progress on, are going to do, we don't ever 1700 01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:04,120 Speaker 1: see any glasses. Yeah, yeah, And and that's because they're 1701 01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:10,679 Speaker 1: not really close uh to to working yet. The air 1702 01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:13,000 Speaker 1: glasses are gonna be the way to act. Like if 1703 01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:17,320 Speaker 1: the goal is to integrate digital spaces into the physical space, 1704 01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:18,960 Speaker 1: I think I think it's a good goal because what 1705 01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,880 Speaker 1: that's gonna do, that's gonna make the digital space less fake, right, 1706 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,439 Speaker 1: it's injecting that into the actual real world. So I 1707 01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:26,800 Speaker 1: think that will actually really help with like disassociate of 1708 01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:29,200 Speaker 1: stuff is because it's actually in it's actually in the 1709 01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:31,360 Speaker 1: real world as well. I think that's gonna be wonderful 1710 01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,240 Speaker 1: when that gets developed. And I think the glasses are 1711 01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:36,000 Speaker 1: are definitely going to be a thing within the next 1712 01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,720 Speaker 1: ten to twenty years. There is ways of like illuminating 1713 01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:42,000 Speaker 1: glass on the side to make like like what it 1714 01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:44,040 Speaker 1: looks like an image. This is definitely gonna be a 1715 01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:48,679 Speaker 1: thing that's going to be possible. Like surveillance and privacy 1716 01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:52,080 Speaker 1: is like the big, big fears for that because we're 1717 01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:55,040 Speaker 1: nowhere close to hacking the brain enough to feel sensations. 1718 01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,280 Speaker 1: And like, the only thing I've played a lot of VR, 1719 01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,599 Speaker 1: the only thing that you can feel in VR is fear. 1720 01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:03,560 Speaker 1: That's the only thing that VR is capable of replicating 1721 01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:07,080 Speaker 1: as as a feeling. It's like you can feel terrified 1722 01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,960 Speaker 1: and VR that's that's that's it. You can't ever feel 1723 01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,680 Speaker 1: like there's one thing you can feel exhausted game. And 1724 01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:17,080 Speaker 1: I was doing like bow draws for like four hours, 1725 01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, we've we've developed the way to 1726 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,400 Speaker 1: make you frightened and tired. That is best, which is 1727 01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:25,599 Speaker 1: all by the way, what Twitter does normally. It's true, 1728 01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,080 Speaker 1: all of like all of like the Resident Evil VR games, Yeah, 1729 01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:32,120 Speaker 1: they're gonna making you tired and terrified and that's kind 1730 01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:34,360 Speaker 1: of it. So we we have to close out. But 1731 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,519 Speaker 1: I want to do that by playing Mark Zuckerberg lamenting 1732 01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,240 Speaker 1: the Internet that he played a major role in in building, 1733 01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:42,160 Speaker 1: as a way to talk about why we need a metaverse, 1734 01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:45,160 Speaker 1: because it's kind of funny because we're allowed to build 1735 01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:48,479 Speaker 1: and use, are more tightly controlled than ever, and high 1736 01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:53,160 Speaker 1: taxes on creative new ideas are stifling. This is not 1737 01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:56,760 Speaker 1: the way that we were met to use technology. The 1738 01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:03,000 Speaker 1: metaverse gives us an opportunity to well, but it's gonna 1739 01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:08,320 Speaker 1: take all of us creators, developers, companies of all sizes together. 1740 01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:11,559 Speaker 1: We can finally put people at the center of our 1741 01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,080 Speaker 1: technology and deliver an experience where we are present with 1742 01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:22,080 Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, what a Google? Like all of that nonsense. Everyone, 1743 01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,280 Speaker 1: you're not You're one of the people who has turned 1744 01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,720 Speaker 1: the Internet into an expensive walled garden. It didn't used 1745 01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,160 Speaker 1: to be this way. Then Facebook swooped in, made themselves 1746 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,640 Speaker 1: for free um like integral to all content, and then 1747 01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,400 Speaker 1: started charging those content creators and like sucking them around 1748 01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:38,200 Speaker 1: and lying to them, which led to the destruction of 1749 01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:40,200 Speaker 1: a huge number of websites and a tremendous amount of 1750 01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:43,920 Speaker 1: digital culture, like your Wyatt feels like a dead waled garden, 1751 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,879 Speaker 1: and everything you've presented in this video makes the metaverse 1752 01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:49,560 Speaker 1: feel like a dead waled garden. But I want to 1753 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:53,160 Speaker 1: play his last lines in the in this video because 1754 01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:55,000 Speaker 1: this is him kind of summing up his vision for 1755 01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:58,599 Speaker 1: the future via the Metaverse. And now it is time 1756 01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:01,400 Speaker 1: to take everything that we have learned and helped build 1757 01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:05,080 Speaker 1: the next chapter. I am dedicating our energy to this 1758 01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:07,599 Speaker 1: more than any other company in the world. And if 1759 01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:09,880 Speaker 1: this is the future that you want to see, then 1760 01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:12,839 Speaker 1: I hope that you will join us, because the future 1761 01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,760 Speaker 1: is going to be beyond anything we can imagine. I 1762 01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:18,960 Speaker 1: agree with that part mark. The future is going to 1763 01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,400 Speaker 1: be beyond what you can imagine. What a gool, Yeah, 1764 01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:24,479 Speaker 1: because you have no imagination. It's just it's just using 1765 01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:28,400 Speaker 1: trendy tech terms to trick investors into giving them billions 1766 01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,040 Speaker 1: of dollars. That's like the right, That's that's all it is. 1767 01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:35,200 Speaker 1: Because all of this, like this, like haptic feedback replicating 1768 01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,960 Speaker 1: like human feelings and stuff, that we're nowhere close to that, 1769 01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:39,840 Speaker 1: and when we do, it's going to be dystopian. But 1770 01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:41,840 Speaker 1: we're not close to it, and it's going to be 1771 01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,960 Speaker 1: dystopian or it's going to be better in ways that 1772 01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:49,960 Speaker 1: like we can't yet conceive of UM and then eventually 1773 01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:52,760 Speaker 1: it will be destroyed for profit if it actually gets 1774 01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,120 Speaker 1: cool like the old Internet was. Yeah, it's yeah, it's 1775 01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,000 Speaker 1: it's yeah. But I think but both this and even 1776 01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:02,640 Speaker 1: at like a lot of the epic stuff just seems ah, 1777 01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:07,000 Speaker 1: it's just the new way that tech companies, that's where 1778 01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,000 Speaker 1: they think the money vault is is by using these terms, 1779 01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:11,920 Speaker 1: and they think using these terms is going to get 1780 01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,439 Speaker 1: them lots of extra investor money because the actual technology 1781 01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:17,040 Speaker 1: is nowhere really close to this and it's not what 1782 01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:20,120 Speaker 1: people wanted out of the Internet anyway, it absolutely is not. 1783 01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:23,679 Speaker 1: But I don't know, I think this was important. I think, yeah, 1784 01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:28,240 Speaker 1: Facebook is important and has a major impact on the 1785 01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:31,360 Speaker 1: way the Internet is continuing to evolve UM, usually in 1786 01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:34,000 Speaker 1: negative ways. But this is how these people who are 1787 01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:36,960 Speaker 1: doing a lot of damage view the future. So you 1788 01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,360 Speaker 1: should know what they're looking at and what they anticipate. 1789 01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:41,120 Speaker 1: But I think I think that there's a kind of 1790 01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:44,280 Speaker 1: optimistic note to this though, right was just like Okay, 1791 01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:47,240 Speaker 1: so we've we've reached the point where like even like 1792 01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:52,120 Speaker 1: Boris Johnson is going like, oh god, climate change is coming, right, 1793 01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:59,280 Speaker 1: and this is the best they've got, right. They have nothing, 1794 01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,760 Speaker 1: They have nothing, And you know what, I think, like, 1795 01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:05,800 Speaker 1: what are the only ways we can win is if 1796 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:09,519 Speaker 1: we're facing a uniquely incompetent ruling class, and if it's 1797 01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:11,040 Speaker 1: if the rule, if the if the guy were, if 1798 01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:12,600 Speaker 1: a guy we have to deal with in order to 1799 01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:16,720 Speaker 1: like not drown every single whale and like have half 1800 01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:18,800 Speaker 1: of the world's city is consumed, but the ocean is 1801 01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:24,880 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, like, we got a shot. I think there 1802 01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:27,920 Speaker 1: are some smarter people that aren't. Yeah, that is not 1803 01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:32,559 Speaker 1: mind the scenes right, like yeah, um, but I I 1804 01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:34,840 Speaker 1: don't think I think that's a nice note to end on, 1805 01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,960 Speaker 1: because it is. It is worth The nice thing about 1806 01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,799 Speaker 1: this is how clearly they don't understand what the future 1807 01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,679 Speaker 1: is going to look like online. Um, they have ways 1808 01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:45,960 Speaker 1: in which they're trying to direct the future, and aspects 1809 01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,719 Speaker 1: of that will come true, like the VR will succeed 1810 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,880 Speaker 1: in some form at some point, and it will be 1811 01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:58,960 Speaker 1: potentially an unprecedented surveillance breakthrough that has some unsettling implications 1812 01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:00,439 Speaker 1: that ever sets get into help with a lot of 1813 01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:02,840 Speaker 1: other stuff. I think the move by Twitter to create 1814 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:06,240 Speaker 1: like this, like it's called like like Twitter spaces where 1815 01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:08,840 Speaker 1: it's like this like you know, basically like voice chat room. 1816 01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:10,599 Speaker 1: Like a lot of people are moving towards this concept 1817 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,559 Speaker 1: where we try to like inject more like in person 1818 01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,920 Speaker 1: interactivity into this virtual framework right now, this with like 1819 01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:20,080 Speaker 1: with like a clubhouse last year during during the pandemic 1820 01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:22,800 Speaker 1: where people like watching like Netflix in the quote same room, 1821 01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:25,519 Speaker 1: right Like, We're seeing people try to do this with 1822 01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,519 Speaker 1: varying mixed success. But this is the way tech is 1823 01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,479 Speaker 1: is inching. So it is a good idea to keep 1824 01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:31,680 Speaker 1: your eye on it because yeah, it has a lot 1825 01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,479 Speaker 1: of implications for like clevacy and advertising and all that 1826 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,080 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. We'll continue to cover aspects of this, 1827 01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,040 Speaker 1: talk about the technology, talk about the surveillance implications, talk 1828 01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:42,800 Speaker 1: about the visions these people have. But I think that 1829 01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:44,840 Speaker 1: this has been these episodes have been useful and like 1830 01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,120 Speaker 1: here's what Mark thinks is coming. Here's what Facebook is 1831 01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,400 Speaker 1: pouring like ten million dollars into it's dumbest shit. Have 1832 01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:59,320 Speaker 1: a nice day. Raphi is the voice of some of 1833 01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:05,519 Speaker 1: the happy songs of our generation. Babe, So who is 1834 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:09,600 Speaker 1: the man behind baby Bluga? Every human being wants to 1835 01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:14,519 Speaker 1: feel respected. When we start with young, all good things 1836 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:18,040 Speaker 1: can grow from there. I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new Dad 1837 01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:20,800 Speaker 1: and host of Finding Raffie, a new podcast from My 1838 01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:24,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Fatherly. Listen every Tuesday on the I 1839 01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:28,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm 1840 01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:31,040 Speaker 1: Colleen with Join me, the host of Eating Wall Broke 1841 01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:35,840 Speaker 1: podcast while I eat a meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, 1842 01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,280 Speaker 1: and celebrities over a meal they once ate when they 1843 01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:41,080 Speaker 1: were broke. Today I have the lovely aj Crimson, the 1844 01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:45,840 Speaker 1: official Princess of comfin Asia, Kidding and Assia. This is 1845 01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:48,559 Speaker 1: the professor. We're here on Eating Wall Broke and today 1846 01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna break down my meal that got me through 1847 01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,000 Speaker 1: a time when I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall 1848 01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:57,000 Speaker 1: Broke on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast 1849 01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:00,519 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Make to check out 1850 01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,200 Speaker 1: Drink Champs, your number one music podcast on the Black 1851 01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:05,920 Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network. Host n O. R E and d 1852 01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,639 Speaker 1: J E f N sat down with artists and icon Ya, 1853 01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:13,760 Speaker 1: which Vulture called one most significant interviews. I literally had 1854 01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:15,920 Speaker 1: to go like Danos and I don't want to have 1855 01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:18,000 Speaker 1: to be the villain. But when I went and did 1856 01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:22,080 Speaker 1: the Donda thing, he returned and anybody had to sit 1857 01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,360 Speaker 1: back and watch the real leader. Check out Drink Champs 1858 01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:28,439 Speaker 1: Conversation with Yea and many more legendary artists each and 1859 01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:31,440 Speaker 1: every Friday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast 1860 01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:46,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows podcast. All right, 1861 01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:51,240 Speaker 1: well I've done my job for the day. Wow, you 1862 01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:54,360 Speaker 1: even by our standards. That's a that's an intro. That's 1863 01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:59,599 Speaker 1: actually OK. Thank you. This is of course it could 1864 01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:03,160 Speaker 1: happen here a show about how things aren't going so great, 1865 01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:06,360 Speaker 1: kind of falling apart, crumbling a bit, but also maybe 1866 01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,160 Speaker 1: things could be better. That would be nice. Let's try 1867 01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:11,760 Speaker 1: and do that. Today is one of the maybe things 1868 01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:14,360 Speaker 1: could be better episodes. And we are talking about the 1869 01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:18,599 Speaker 1: ongoing wave of strikes. We had strike Tober last month 1870 01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:22,360 Speaker 1: with John Dear strikes and and and strikes uh and 1871 01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:26,200 Speaker 1: like what a couple of different food companies a bunch 1872 01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:28,760 Speaker 1: of strikes um. And today we would like to get 1873 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,519 Speaker 1: an update on all the motherfucker's who were out there 1874 01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:36,440 Speaker 1: striking for better conditions um and and better treatment um 1875 01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:40,280 Speaker 1: and today for that purpose, we've brought on the great, Kim, 1876 01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,080 Speaker 1: Kelly Kim, you are a journalist who focuses a hell 1877 01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,719 Speaker 1: of a lot on labor. You've been up and down 1878 01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:49,040 Speaker 1: to some of the coal strikes that have been going on. 1879 01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:51,640 Speaker 1: You were there for the Amazon attempt to form the 1880 01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:57,080 Speaker 1: union in um O GS was that Arizona, um Alabama, 1881 01:33:57,120 --> 01:33:59,799 Speaker 1: Alabama UM And you're writing a book on the history 1882 01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:02,600 Speaker 1: of labor um in the United States. So I'd like 1883 01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:04,880 Speaker 1: to just kind of turn the floor over to you. 1884 01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:09,519 Speaker 1: There's a four, there's okay, there's a flour, there's no fire. 1885 01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:12,920 Speaker 1: Is filthy as it ends up. You know, we're doing 1886 01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:16,840 Speaker 1: our best, aren't we are? Yeah? You are, we are not. 1887 01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:19,920 Speaker 1: I am. I'm trying to keep up with all this 1888 01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:25,280 Speaker 1: labor action. It's exciting action, hot labor action, some hot 1889 01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:29,200 Speaker 1: labor action stories. So as you mentioned, we're just kind 1890 01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,880 Speaker 1: of coasting off of the peak of Strikectober, which was 1891 01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:35,200 Speaker 1: such a fun thing to kind of see explode in 1892 01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,760 Speaker 1: the mainstream consciousness. Like usually labor stories, they're a big 1893 01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:41,200 Speaker 1: deal to the people that are involved in them and 1894 01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:43,040 Speaker 1: people in the labor world who are watching and like 1895 01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:45,559 Speaker 1: rooting for them, but they don't necessarily end up on 1896 01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:48,640 Speaker 1: like you know, the mainstream like that they're end up 1897 01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,360 Speaker 1: on the TV. They don't end up with like fancy 1898 01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:54,120 Speaker 1: old guys talking about it on dateline or whatever. But 1899 01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,240 Speaker 1: that's something that happened, and I think there's been a 1900 01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:00,840 Speaker 1: real shifting consciousness that is the company that And of 1901 01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,040 Speaker 1: course you know it's like Striketober is fun. There's all 1902 01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:05,280 Speaker 1: these these big strikes happen at the same time. But 1903 01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:07,679 Speaker 1: we of course need to remember that that didn't happen 1904 01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:10,200 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. There's people on strike now who have 1905 01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:12,960 Speaker 1: been on strike since before, since before it was cool, right, 1906 01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:16,679 Speaker 1: since much earlier. Like shout out to the St. Vincent 1907 01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:20,400 Speaker 1: nurses up in Massachusetts and to the coal miners in 1908 01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:22,920 Speaker 1: Brooke with Alabama Warrior Men who have both been on 1909 01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:26,559 Speaker 1: strike for over eight months and they kind of right 1910 01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:29,040 Speaker 1: so literally like they're like they're in the middle of 1911 01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,240 Speaker 1: their tour drives for their children because they've been on 1912 01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:33,680 Speaker 1: strike for so long, and they kind of got a 1913 01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,160 Speaker 1: little bit left out of the conversation around strike Toober. 1914 01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:38,640 Speaker 1: And I think that just kind of shows that we 1915 01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:40,760 Speaker 1: need to be paying attention even when it's not as 1916 01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,439 Speaker 1: flashy or new or exciting. I mean, strikes were was exciting. 1917 01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:47,160 Speaker 1: But you know, there's a lot going on, and one 1918 01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:50,519 Speaker 1: of the things I think is interesting and important, especially 1919 01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:53,320 Speaker 1: as we head into strikes giving, which I guess we're 1920 01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:59,680 Speaker 1: doing strikes giving strike Smiths strike and thank you very 1921 01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:08,880 Speaker 1: day forth the strike Uli. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it 1922 01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:12,479 Speaker 1: gets worse earlier really until we get to labor day 1923 01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:15,920 Speaker 1: and by then, yea striker's day. That one works pretty well. 1924 01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm also a fan of striking. Tine's Day, um strike 1925 01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:23,960 Speaker 1: and tized Day. That's cute. Well, rage baby, keep this going. Yeah, 1926 01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:31,599 Speaker 1: strike strike, there's a missed opportunity there. Although that that 1927 01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:34,639 Speaker 1: frightens me. Garrison that the band Ween might go on strike, 1928 01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:38,080 Speaker 1: and I don't know, society we do, we wouldn't have 1929 01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:40,840 Speaker 1: our we would we would be completely out of Ween. 1930 01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:43,240 Speaker 1: Our reserves of Ween aren't going to last long if 1931 01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:48,439 Speaker 1: they stop. Yeah. Yeah, there's been a tragic shortage of 1932 01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:50,080 Speaker 1: Ween for years now. I don't know that we can 1933 01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:52,320 Speaker 1: handle a stripe. Please contain you can? Yeah, I mean 1934 01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:54,680 Speaker 1: I realized you were a nerd, Robbert. This is kind 1935 01:36:54,680 --> 01:37:00,920 Speaker 1: of throw some things into question. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 1936 01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:03,880 Speaker 1: as a heavy metal dirtbag, I'm like contractually obligated to 1937 01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:08,400 Speaker 1: make say things like that. But as I was pontificating 1938 01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:12,799 Speaker 1: a minute ago, right, so as we go into strikes giving, 1939 01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:15,600 Speaker 1: there are still more big strikes on the horizon and 1940 01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:18,240 Speaker 1: potential big strikes in the horizon. But part of the 1941 01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:21,240 Speaker 1: story that I think is also very energizing and important 1942 01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:25,280 Speaker 1: is the organizing that's happening in the new unions that 1943 01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:28,360 Speaker 1: are hopefully gonna end up being formed, not necessarily as 1944 01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:30,559 Speaker 1: a result of this wave of attention, but they're kind 1945 01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:32,479 Speaker 1: of caught up in the tide. I mean, when we 1946 01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:35,799 Speaker 1: look at the Starbucks workers in Buffalo who have scared 1947 01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:37,880 Speaker 1: the ship out of their employers to the point where 1948 01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:41,040 Speaker 1: they're flying executives in to follow them around the store 1949 01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:43,439 Speaker 1: and be like, please don't vote for reunion. We need 1950 01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:46,479 Speaker 1: all of our billions of dollars we can't share. Or 1951 01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:49,879 Speaker 1: you know, even workers at wire Cutter who are threatening 1952 01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,760 Speaker 1: to strike on Black Friday and their whole thing is 1953 01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:57,759 Speaker 1: telling people what's stuff to buy, you know, and McDonald's workers, 1954 01:37:57,760 --> 01:37:59,679 Speaker 1: and I think ten different these a ten different cities, 1955 01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:03,040 Speaker 1: attendfferent states, ten different locations just went out on like 1956 01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:06,200 Speaker 1: a one day strike over sexual harassment in the workplace. 1957 01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:09,679 Speaker 1: Kroger workers are taking a strike authorization vote in Texas. 1958 01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:14,200 Speaker 1: We have multiple Amazon organizing attempts happening in Staten Island, 1959 01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:16,639 Speaker 1: and a rerun of the election coming up in Best 1960 01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:21,040 Speaker 1: for Alabama, and there's just so much happening that, you know, 1961 01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:23,880 Speaker 1: I hope that the novelty idea of the strikes told 1962 01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:25,840 Speaker 1: we're striketh giving. I hope like that was fun. But 1963 01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:27,880 Speaker 1: I hope now that people are paying attention, that they 1964 01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:31,360 Speaker 1: stay interested and realize that, you know, labor stories. Maybe 1965 01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:34,280 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily always like a big strike or like 1966 01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:37,040 Speaker 1: a cool picket line to look at, but there's a 1967 01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:40,120 Speaker 1: lot going on. Like every story is a work story, 1968 01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:42,760 Speaker 1: every story is a labor story, and people seem like 1969 01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:44,920 Speaker 1: they're finally catching on the fact that, you know, we're 1970 01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:50,080 Speaker 1: all workers, and wow, cool things happen when we come together. Yeah. 1971 01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:52,920 Speaker 1: I I hope that too, And I hope that, um, 1972 01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:56,519 Speaker 1: you know, the word on everybody's lips, who's I don't 1973 01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:58,000 Speaker 1: coming at this from kind of a little bit of 1974 01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:01,880 Speaker 1: a more uh, either radical or desperate point of view, 1975 01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:03,680 Speaker 1: depending on how you want to frame it. Is like 1976 01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:07,040 Speaker 1: general strike, general strike, and you know, there's there's been 1977 01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:10,320 Speaker 1: some there's been people online who keep saying like, Okay, 1978 01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:13,040 Speaker 1: well we're all just gonna go on on Black Friday, 1979 01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:15,280 Speaker 1: everybody general strike, And it's like, yeah, well you don't. 1980 01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:17,360 Speaker 1: You don't set that up on Twitter. Like the the 1981 01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,240 Speaker 1: unions that are striking now have strike funds and put 1982 01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,720 Speaker 1: a lot of thought into it and have like had 1983 01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:25,040 Speaker 1: to take there's things you have to do in order 1984 01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:28,040 Speaker 1: to not irresponsibly like just screw over a bunch of 1985 01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:32,479 Speaker 1: working people. Um, but it is like, I'm a believer 1986 01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:35,439 Speaker 1: in the potential of something like a general strike to 1987 01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:42,800 Speaker 1: to force significant concessions. I mean, yeah, I guess I 1988 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:45,760 Speaker 1: think if it. I mean it's a huge if because 1989 01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:49,240 Speaker 1: it's never really effectively been Like there's been pieces of 1990 01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:51,519 Speaker 1: it done like we saw. I think the closest we've 1991 01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:54,479 Speaker 1: gotten in like my lifetime has been when the the 1992 01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:57,680 Speaker 1: airline workers threatened to go on strike over the over 1993 01:39:57,720 --> 01:39:59,960 Speaker 1: the budget thing, and you just saw the federal government go, 1994 01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:04,760 Speaker 1: oh fuck, nope, you know what, we can actually pass 1995 01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:08,519 Speaker 1: this thing. I mean, that's the thing like that threat 1996 01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:11,639 Speaker 1: that I think that was Sara Nelson said that even 1997 01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,320 Speaker 1: like hinted towards that in twenty nineteen when the government shutdown, 1998 01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:16,120 Speaker 1: that's sort of that was a tipping point. I think 1999 01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:19,640 Speaker 1: that's the first time people, well really was prob the 2000 01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:22,120 Speaker 1: first time in many people's lifetimes that an actual labor 2001 01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:25,400 Speaker 1: leader with that platform and even mentioned those words. Because 2002 01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:28,440 Speaker 1: general like general strikes historically kind of are more situated 2003 01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:32,000 Speaker 1: than that late nineteenth century early twentieth century like labor 2004 01:40:32,040 --> 01:40:35,280 Speaker 1: swinging its stick around era, and we've been kneecapped so 2005 01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:38,560 Speaker 1: much that that doesn't feel as as possible. But I 2006 01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:40,679 Speaker 1: mean the fact that she said, and she was part 2007 01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:43,559 Speaker 1: of the airline industry. If we're ever going to actually 2008 01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:46,880 Speaker 1: you know, bring capital to its knees, we're going to 2009 01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:49,799 Speaker 1: need the transportation workers. We're going to need the dock workers. 2010 01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:53,080 Speaker 1: We're gonna need to like actually analyze who is moving 2011 01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:56,400 Speaker 1: things around the country, who's making sure things work, and 2012 01:40:56,439 --> 01:40:58,880 Speaker 1: how can we get them to put down to down 2013 01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:01,479 Speaker 1: their tools and be like, Okay, we're gonna do something 2014 01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:04,400 Speaker 1: about this. You know, the whole general strike idea, I mean, 2015 01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean, and arguably like one of the first ones 2016 01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:11,519 Speaker 1: was you know, in Black Reconstruction, they do the book, 2017 01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:14,799 Speaker 1: there's a uh, this argument that the first general strike 2018 01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:20,160 Speaker 1: was enslaved enslaved people leaving the plantations and withdrawing their 2019 01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:24,080 Speaker 1: labor from that situation, like that was the form of striking. 2020 01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:26,200 Speaker 1: And I think the general strike is kind of a 2021 01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:29,479 Speaker 1: morphous idea, especially online as more people learn about labor 2022 01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:31,200 Speaker 1: and learn about it. But there's also like kind of 2023 01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:35,599 Speaker 1: a specific thing, like you can't just declare like, Okay, 2024 01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,280 Speaker 1: we're all not going to go to work tomorrow, like cool, 2025 01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:41,439 Speaker 1: but there's so much planning that goes into it to 2026 01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:44,040 Speaker 1: make sure that people are able to do that and 2027 01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:46,680 Speaker 1: sustain that. And the people that are traditionally you know, 2028 01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,880 Speaker 1: already left out or the most vulnerable and marginalize, like 2029 01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:52,720 Speaker 1: that their needs are prioritized because the people that can 2030 01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:56,559 Speaker 1: afford to declare general strike and not show up for 2031 01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:58,920 Speaker 1: a week, like that's all well and good for them, 2032 01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:01,640 Speaker 1: but what about one else who can barely afford to 2033 01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:05,240 Speaker 1: go to work at all. Yeah. I've had these arguments 2034 01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:08,280 Speaker 1: with people online, and it's often like, well, you're saying 2035 01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:10,040 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be like if we just do it, people 2036 01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:12,240 Speaker 1: will figure it out, like the infrastructure will be built 2037 01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:15,479 Speaker 1: after the fact, And I'm like that's I'm glad that 2038 01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:17,679 Speaker 1: you're in a situation where you feel like you could, 2039 01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:20,439 Speaker 1: you could handle that kind of uncertainty. But like a 2040 01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:23,840 Speaker 1: single mother of four who relies on her job to 2041 01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:26,320 Speaker 1: keep them fed and alive, isn't going to be like 2042 01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:28,679 Speaker 1: someone will figure out how to feed my kids, Like, well, 2043 01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:33,120 Speaker 1: that's not how people work, you know. Yeah, this is 2044 01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,880 Speaker 1: we're having like a robust commitment to mutual aid and 2045 01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:39,519 Speaker 1: strike funds and like an actual fabric, like having the 2046 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:42,120 Speaker 1: fabric of community where you can depend on your neighbors 2047 01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:45,599 Speaker 1: instead of never talking to them, Like a general strike 2048 01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:49,519 Speaker 1: would have a huge impact, but on who, Like who 2049 01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:52,240 Speaker 1: would it hurt more if you didn't plan it properly, 2050 01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:55,599 Speaker 1: if you didn't have if you didn't have an actual 2051 01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:59,000 Speaker 1: grassroots network of people ready to help, if you didn't 2052 01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:01,120 Speaker 1: need to understanding that not everyone can just go run 2053 01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:03,879 Speaker 1: off in the streets. Some people like have mobility issues, 2054 01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:06,640 Speaker 1: some people have children, some people are older or sicker, Like, 2055 01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:10,040 Speaker 1: there's so much that goes into it. Yeah, it's like 2056 01:43:10,120 --> 01:43:12,000 Speaker 1: your car is fucked up and you know you need 2057 01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:14,080 Speaker 1: to take it in to get some stuff fixed or 2058 01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:16,599 Speaker 1: it's eventually going to break down entirely. But that doesn't 2059 01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:18,720 Speaker 1: mean the right solution is just get in there and 2060 01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:21,120 Speaker 1: start hitting ship with a hammer, like you need to 2061 01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:24,240 Speaker 1: There needs to be like some systemic way you approach 2062 01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:28,000 Speaker 1: it right, Like there's a proper way to fix an engine, right, 2063 01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:30,599 Speaker 1: and we can do that, Like we can start building 2064 01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:32,960 Speaker 1: those networks. We can start you can organize your workplace 2065 01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:35,920 Speaker 1: and plug into the into like the organized labor frame 2066 01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:39,080 Speaker 1: or which obviously has many flaws, not as radical as 2067 01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:40,920 Speaker 1: I would and many other people like it to be, 2068 01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:45,240 Speaker 1: but they know how to do this ship. Like, there's 2069 01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:47,639 Speaker 1: a lot of different pieces that can be pulled together 2070 01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:50,839 Speaker 1: in different organizations and populations that need to work together 2071 01:43:50,920 --> 01:43:54,760 Speaker 1: if we're actually going to accomplish something like this. And 2072 01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:56,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if people are ready to put in 2073 01:43:56,360 --> 01:44:00,479 Speaker 1: all that work because it's more fun to tweet. Yeah, 2074 01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,400 Speaker 1: but I'm wondering, as they say in Alabama, bless their hearts. 2075 01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:07,320 Speaker 1: You're you're spending a tremendous m imman, as you just noted, 2076 01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:09,280 Speaker 1: you're spending a tremendous amount of time on the ground 2077 01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:11,880 Speaker 1: with a lot of these people talking with them. Are 2078 01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:16,559 Speaker 1: you are you seeing kind of how how are you 2079 01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:18,880 Speaker 1: hearing them talk about the other strike efforts you know 2080 01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:20,920 Speaker 1: in other industries that are going on right now, because 2081 01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:22,800 Speaker 1: it has been more in the news than it's been 2082 01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:24,719 Speaker 1: at any point I can recall on the recent past. 2083 01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:27,400 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering how in places like Bessemer, you know, 2084 01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:30,000 Speaker 1: in places like um you know that coal miners strike 2085 01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:32,640 Speaker 1: you've been at, like, how are they being are to 2086 01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:35,160 Speaker 1: what extent are they talking about other strike efforts? Like 2087 01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:37,120 Speaker 1: is that does that seem to be something that there's 2088 01:44:37,120 --> 01:44:39,439 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of consciousness and discussion about or 2089 01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,680 Speaker 1: is it just kind of in the background. I mean, 2090 01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:43,640 Speaker 1: it really depends. I like you said, I've spent I 2091 01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:45,800 Speaker 1: spent most of my time with the coal miners over 2092 01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:47,439 Speaker 1: the past years. I've been writing a book and I've 2093 01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:49,800 Speaker 1: spent my one my one fun thing. But I've been 2094 01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean I talked to them every single day, and 2095 01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:53,600 Speaker 1: I've been to Alabama lots of times, and I you know, 2096 01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm in a group ch out with the wise, Like 2097 01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:57,800 Speaker 1: I know, I have a decent grass what's going on. 2098 01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:01,120 Speaker 1: And honestly, the thing about it is that some there 2099 01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:03,240 Speaker 1: there's some folks who are very engaged and who have 2100 01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:05,640 Speaker 1: made twitters and they have their Facebook groups and they 2101 01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:07,720 Speaker 1: do pay attention what's happening. And I do think they 2102 01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:12,200 Speaker 1: feel that kind of excitement and that widespread sense of solidarity. 2103 01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:15,960 Speaker 1: But one thing that's important to remember, especially for workers 2104 01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:19,439 Speaker 1: who are already disadvantaged or they're dealing with low wage labor, 2105 01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:22,680 Speaker 1: is like it's really hard to go on strike. Like 2106 01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:24,719 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ship they have to figure out, 2107 01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:27,439 Speaker 1: Like there's kids, there's health issues, there's how am I 2108 01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:29,880 Speaker 1: going to pay my rent? Like like funds are great, 2109 01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:32,680 Speaker 1: but they don't cover everything. Like I think that's one 2110 01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:35,439 Speaker 1: of the realities that maybe it gets sort of glossed 2111 01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:38,519 Speaker 1: over because we're also online and we like to you 2112 01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:41,400 Speaker 1: and me feels like, oh, everyone's fucking stoked about these strikes. 2113 01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:44,719 Speaker 1: But for someone in rural Alabama who is just hoping 2114 01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:46,960 Speaker 1: this strike is over soon so they can go back 2115 01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:50,480 Speaker 1: to work and have some financial stability, they're not necessarily 2116 01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:53,920 Speaker 1: reading your tweets or like signing up for webinars or 2117 01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:57,920 Speaker 1: even paying attention to like cool other strike efforts. I'm 2118 01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:00,120 Speaker 1: sure some some folks are aware and they find have 2119 01:46:00,200 --> 01:46:03,120 Speaker 1: that time to plug in, but most people just trying 2120 01:46:03,120 --> 01:46:05,519 Speaker 1: to get by. And these are folks who have spend 2121 01:46:05,560 --> 01:46:07,559 Speaker 1: like eight hours a day on the picket lines and 2122 01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:09,840 Speaker 1: there's no cell phone service out where their picket lines 2123 01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:13,959 Speaker 1: are like, there's only so much that a normal regular 2124 01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:16,080 Speaker 1: worker on the picket line can do to keep up. 2125 01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:20,960 Speaker 1: And um, you came into this, I think, unlike a 2126 01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:23,360 Speaker 1: lot of the people who are who are actually striking, 2127 01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:26,680 Speaker 1: you came into this with a lifelong history of the 2128 01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:32,000 Speaker 1: like of interest in kind of labor justice movements and whatnot, 2129 01:46:32,040 --> 01:46:34,280 Speaker 1: which I don't think most people who are in unions 2130 01:46:34,280 --> 01:46:36,799 Speaker 1: necessarily spend a ton of time studying the last hundred 2131 01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:40,680 Speaker 1: years of labor relations. Um, what has surprised you? Like? 2132 01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:43,200 Speaker 1: What what have what? What is like been a new 2133 01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:46,200 Speaker 1: realization that you've gotten since you started covering the stuff 2134 01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:49,800 Speaker 1: on the ground in this most recent period. So the 2135 01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:51,760 Speaker 1: thing that's really sticks with me and I'm going back 2136 01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:54,439 Speaker 1: to my minors again because that's you know, my where 2137 01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:57,240 Speaker 1: where the most familiarity. But something that I think has 2138 01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:00,080 Speaker 1: so much potential And I'm not going to Tyler's or 2139 01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:03,120 Speaker 1: how to articulate what that potential is. But so something 2140 01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:07,400 Speaker 1: I have seen is when this strike began, most not all, 2141 01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:10,000 Speaker 1: but the majority of the folks involved in this particular strike, 2142 01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:14,120 Speaker 1: or conservative Christian people who were a lot of voted 2143 01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:15,400 Speaker 1: for Trump, but a lot of them were like just 2144 01:47:15,479 --> 01:47:19,559 Speaker 1: in that world, maybe not like you know, wild mega people, 2145 01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:21,880 Speaker 1: but that's just what was the norm where they are 2146 01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:24,679 Speaker 1: in their community, and they will think about that much. 2147 01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:27,840 Speaker 1: But there are some people that I've seen, especially those 2148 01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:29,920 Speaker 1: were involved in the Mutual Aid efforts or have been 2149 01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:32,320 Speaker 1: who have seen Birmingham DSA come out, who have kind 2150 01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:36,400 Speaker 1: of taken this kind of like wider review of what's happening, 2151 01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:39,280 Speaker 1: how they fit in. I've seen their politics and their 2152 01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:42,479 Speaker 1: perspective shift. Like there are some people who are like 2153 01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:46,479 Speaker 1: straight up socialists now that seven months ago would have 2154 01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:49,200 Speaker 1: probably spit in your face or at least given you 2155 01:47:49,240 --> 01:47:51,599 Speaker 1: a hell of a look if you wouldn't even suggested 2156 01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:53,960 Speaker 1: such a thing. And this is a small sample size, 2157 01:47:53,960 --> 01:47:56,680 Speaker 1: and this is a unique situation, but I think it 2158 01:47:56,720 --> 01:48:00,479 Speaker 1: really speaks to the potential there to like reach people 2159 01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:05,160 Speaker 1: who are very ideologically politically different from what we maybe 2160 01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:08,759 Speaker 1: think of as labor people, as progressive, radical whatever people 2161 01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,320 Speaker 1: on our team, right, But the power of the strike 2162 01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:14,479 Speaker 1: and the power of labor is that there is so 2163 01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:18,880 Speaker 1: much there. There's kind of an inherent common ground because 2164 01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:21,599 Speaker 1: so many people, most people, a lot of people, most 2165 01:48:21,600 --> 01:48:24,120 Speaker 1: people have a job, a lot of people hate their boss. 2166 01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:27,320 Speaker 1: You can kind of build from that very very low 2167 01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:31,400 Speaker 1: baseline and find more common ground and kind of you 2168 01:48:31,439 --> 01:48:34,080 Speaker 1: can you can work towards a better understanding. Like maybe 2169 01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:35,720 Speaker 1: you're not going to be best friends, but you can 2170 01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:40,400 Speaker 1: potentially shift someone's harmful worldview by exposing them to new 2171 01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:43,080 Speaker 1: ideas once they trust that you're not just there to 2172 01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:45,519 Speaker 1: tell them they're wrong and stupid and bad. Were like, look, 2173 01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:49,479 Speaker 1: we were coming at this like I'm going to talk 2174 01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:51,760 Speaker 1: to you like a person. I understand we see the 2175 01:48:51,760 --> 01:48:54,080 Speaker 1: world differently, but like you know, I'm here to support you. 2176 01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:56,160 Speaker 1: I'm here listening to you. Maybe you could listen to 2177 01:48:56,160 --> 01:48:58,439 Speaker 1: what I have to say too, Maybe it might change 2178 01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:05,200 Speaker 1: how you see things. Sometimes it works, Yeah, yeah, um 2179 01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:11,280 Speaker 1: you know what else works? Kim blowing shut up? Well 2180 01:49:11,320 --> 01:49:16,280 Speaker 1: okay all allegedly um minecraft Yeah. I was gonna say 2181 01:49:16,880 --> 01:49:24,800 Speaker 1: cap ads, cap ADSMS ADS and services. Um, but I 2182 01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:27,160 Speaker 1: like your answer better. So let's just let's just let's 2183 01:49:27,160 --> 01:49:31,360 Speaker 1: just roll out with that material support, right. Like another 2184 01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:35,120 Speaker 1: concrete example there, the Birmingham DSA has been very active 2185 01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:38,640 Speaker 1: in fundraising and showing up and just providing support for 2186 01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:42,000 Speaker 1: the miners and then the people in strike and this 2187 01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:45,240 Speaker 1: is not necessarily a population of people that like the 2188 01:49:45,280 --> 01:49:47,920 Speaker 1: idea of socialism, whatever idea of it is that they 2189 01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:53,040 Speaker 1: hold because Fox News and russlmbar are big cultural standbys 2190 01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:56,040 Speaker 1: there like whatever they think socialism is. And then have 2191 01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:59,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of socialists show up and just practice solidarity 2192 01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:02,240 Speaker 1: and mutulating actice socialism, and they're like, oh, this, these 2193 01:50:02,280 --> 01:50:05,400 Speaker 1: guys are great, thank you for coming out things like that, 2194 01:50:05,479 --> 01:50:08,639 Speaker 1: where it's like, I feel like so much of radical 2195 01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:12,600 Speaker 1: politics in various, you know, various tendencies. There's just like 2196 01:50:12,640 --> 01:50:15,840 Speaker 1: a branding problem, and there's a propaganda problem on the 2197 01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:18,160 Speaker 1: right wing, and the maketure he doesn't tell anybody what 2198 01:50:18,240 --> 01:50:22,720 Speaker 1: anything means. Like, yeah, it's a broader conversation, right, But 2199 01:50:23,680 --> 01:50:26,080 Speaker 1: I felt for a while like one of the things 2200 01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:29,240 Speaker 1: that leftist organizers need to get better at doing is 2201 01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:34,880 Speaker 1: being willing to like drop names when they're not productive. Like, Okay, 2202 01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:37,639 Speaker 1: maybe these people, because of the media environment, they've grown 2203 01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:40,120 Speaker 1: up and are never gonna want to consider themselves socialists. 2204 01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:44,080 Speaker 1: But if they are willing to organize together and support 2205 01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:47,200 Speaker 1: the efforts of other working people to organize together against 2206 01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:51,599 Speaker 1: the capital holding class, like then Okay, Like what is it? 2207 01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:54,280 Speaker 1: Why do you need them to like start quoting Karl 2208 01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:56,920 Speaker 1: Marx or is it just cool that you've you've got 2209 01:50:56,960 --> 01:51:00,160 Speaker 1: them doing what they like? Yeah? I I that makes 2210 01:51:00,160 --> 01:51:02,439 Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me that, like, yes, some 2211 01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:04,160 Speaker 1: that you can get a lot of these people on 2212 01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:08,200 Speaker 1: board with again pretty radical things if you're if you're 2213 01:51:08,240 --> 01:51:10,840 Speaker 1: kind of approaching it from within their world, from within, 2214 01:51:10,920 --> 01:51:13,759 Speaker 1: like I'm not trying to talk to you about burning 2215 01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:15,400 Speaker 1: down the system. I'm trying to talk to you about 2216 01:51:15,400 --> 01:51:16,960 Speaker 1: how you get what you need. And it just so 2217 01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:19,920 Speaker 1: happens that how you get what you need um is 2218 01:51:20,200 --> 01:51:23,400 Speaker 1: taking the system on in a very direct way. I Mean, 2219 01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:25,960 Speaker 1: so many ideas that are painted as radical just like 2220 01:51:26,280 --> 01:51:31,280 Speaker 1: aren't like that's normal people caring for him, Like it 2221 01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:34,080 Speaker 1: is like community care and common sense. It's just been 2222 01:51:34,120 --> 01:51:39,760 Speaker 1: politicized to this insane extent. And even it's like I'm 2223 01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:40,840 Speaker 1: just like even like a lot a lot of the 2224 01:51:40,840 --> 01:51:42,680 Speaker 1: tenants of mutual aid you can even see pop up 2225 01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:45,920 Speaker 1: in a lot of like church communities as well, at 2226 01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,120 Speaker 1: least like at least like smaller you know, closer knit 2227 01:51:48,160 --> 01:51:50,280 Speaker 1: like communities that are actually based around helping each other 2228 01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:52,519 Speaker 1: at least I was. I've observed that and a lot 2229 01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:55,680 Speaker 1: of my time traveling across the States. Yeah, absolutely, that's 2230 01:51:55,680 --> 01:51:57,880 Speaker 1: a huge part of it. Like the church is the 2231 01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:00,840 Speaker 1: only mutual aid option, and so many like smaller and 2232 01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,439 Speaker 1: more ice librural communities or just communities where the church 2233 01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:07,400 Speaker 1: is a big deal. Like there's always ways to chip 2234 01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:11,519 Speaker 1: away these institutions and eventually hopefully burned them down right 2235 01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:14,200 Speaker 1: without alienating people and making them feel like you're coming 2236 01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:16,680 Speaker 1: in and telling them everything you believe is wrong and 2237 01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:19,080 Speaker 1: actually and making the mistakes. And of these folks, I'm 2238 01:52:19,160 --> 01:52:21,720 Speaker 1: sure they believe things that are absolute garbage. And I 2239 01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:25,559 Speaker 1: would never get everybody, you know, like there's you know, 2240 01:52:26,360 --> 01:52:30,000 Speaker 1: but there's there's Just covering the strike in particular has 2241 01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:32,879 Speaker 1: really just taught me a lot about the gray areas 2242 01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:35,720 Speaker 1: in between, not in like I wish you watched a 2243 01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:37,599 Speaker 1: liberal way, but just in a way of like how 2244 01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:39,880 Speaker 1: do you relate to normal fucking people who see the 2245 01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:42,680 Speaker 1: world differently but are in ultimately the same struggle as you, 2246 01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:47,600 Speaker 1: Like maybe I could, I mean going down there. The 2247 01:52:48,040 --> 01:52:50,400 Speaker 1: only time I've been around that many Trump supporters was 2248 01:52:50,439 --> 01:52:52,600 Speaker 1: like at protests where I was yelling at them or 2249 01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:56,559 Speaker 1: like at my family dinners. So I wasn't you know, 2250 01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:00,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to make friends, but then I did, 2251 01:53:01,280 --> 01:53:04,160 Speaker 1: and I think hopefully we've we've shifted each other's perspectives 2252 01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:07,120 Speaker 1: a little bit in a way that's beneficial. I don't know, 2253 01:53:07,320 --> 01:53:11,559 Speaker 1: it's been, it's been interesting. Yeah, talking to people really 2254 01:53:12,040 --> 01:53:15,240 Speaker 1: is a lot different than tweeting at them. Yeah, as 2255 01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:22,559 Speaker 1: a rule, don't tweet would be my recommendation to people. Never. Never. Yeah, 2256 01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:24,960 Speaker 1: talk to your neighbors and be nice to people when 2257 01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:28,280 Speaker 1: you buy coffee or food from them, and amazed what happens. 2258 01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:31,479 Speaker 1: And then tell your neighbors, Hey, I'm taking my phone 2259 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:33,240 Speaker 1: down to the river to throw it in. Can I 2260 01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:35,360 Speaker 1: take your phone with me? Can we just all throw 2261 01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:40,000 Speaker 1: our phones in the river? Um, yeah, if you want to. 2262 01:53:40,320 --> 01:53:42,160 Speaker 1: If you're going to start at being the weird neighbor, 2263 01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:45,639 Speaker 1: it's a strong start. We've already killed the water system, 2264 01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:48,200 Speaker 1: so it's fine, Like just right in the river with 2265 01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:51,519 Speaker 1: the car batteries. You know, there's good for the eels. 2266 01:53:51,680 --> 01:53:53,519 Speaker 1: The thing I love about our show is just the hope, 2267 01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:57,960 Speaker 1: is the incredibly hope injected optimism that we start an 2268 01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:02,240 Speaker 1: end every episode West But no, I mean like I mean, like, yeah, 2269 01:54:02,320 --> 01:54:04,679 Speaker 1: the more people you know in your community, especially people 2270 01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:07,519 Speaker 1: who are like working class, you know, when bad stuff 2271 01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:10,559 Speaker 1: starts happening, the more people you know the better because 2272 01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:12,599 Speaker 1: that's a lot I'm guessing a lot of a lot 2273 01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:14,760 Speaker 1: of these people who are like you know, like like 2274 01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:17,880 Speaker 1: like old like old union workers. They have a lot 2275 01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:20,800 Speaker 1: of like physical skills, like like they they know how 2276 01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:23,240 Speaker 1: to do a whole bunch of stuff. And it might 2277 01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:26,200 Speaker 1: be worth getting to know some of those people, even 2278 01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:28,920 Speaker 1: if you know, depending where you live, like yeah, they 2279 01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:31,720 Speaker 1: they'll probably say something not great at least for you know, 2280 01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:34,240 Speaker 1: the first bit. But once you know, I have a 2281 01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:37,960 Speaker 1: lot of family and like a rural area of Alberta, 2282 01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:41,200 Speaker 1: and like, yeah, my my family is like pretty gay. Um. 2283 01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:43,400 Speaker 1: So you know, once you're in close to those people, yeah, 2284 01:54:43,440 --> 01:54:46,520 Speaker 1: they're they're gonna say something that's maybe not great. But 2285 01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:49,000 Speaker 1: once they get to like know you and really be like, oh, 2286 01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:51,520 Speaker 1: like you're another person. They like people. Actually, you know, 2287 01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:54,240 Speaker 1: people want to be around other people, and they'll even 2288 01:54:54,400 --> 01:54:56,360 Speaker 1: change the way they talk to be like oh yeah, 2289 01:54:56,400 --> 01:54:58,400 Speaker 1: maybe this isn't the best way to hang out around 2290 01:54:58,440 --> 01:55:00,720 Speaker 1: people because it's going to drive bull away. So yeah, 2291 01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:03,400 Speaker 1: I'll change the way I say some things, because like 2292 01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:05,680 Speaker 1: it turns out people actually, like a lot of a 2293 01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:08,160 Speaker 1: lot of folks just kind of want to make their 2294 01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:11,880 Speaker 1: lives a bit better and that's really their main focus. Yeah, 2295 01:55:13,120 --> 01:55:16,600 Speaker 1: it's hard to not to do that. And it's it's 2296 01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:21,200 Speaker 1: it's just this matter of like so much of what um, 2297 01:55:21,240 --> 01:55:24,080 Speaker 1: so much of what kind of the way that discourse 2298 01:55:24,120 --> 01:55:28,800 Speaker 1: happens online has poisoned aspects of activism is in like 2299 01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:34,120 Speaker 1: making it difficult for people to relate in that way 2300 01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:36,320 Speaker 1: without feeling like, well, okay, but if I can't get 2301 01:55:36,360 --> 01:55:38,120 Speaker 1: them on board with all of these other things, like 2302 01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:40,720 Speaker 1: I can't talk with them or whatever, like because they're 2303 01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:43,040 Speaker 1: because they don't agree with likeness and this, like we 2304 01:55:43,120 --> 01:55:48,200 Speaker 1: can't organize anything like the purity of ideology. Yeah, Like 2305 01:55:48,240 --> 01:55:50,760 Speaker 1: I feel like most people who aren't terminally online don't 2306 01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:56,160 Speaker 1: even necessarily have like a specific ideology not yeah, yeah, right, 2307 01:55:56,240 --> 01:55:58,480 Speaker 1: Like there's just stuff that they have learned or they 2308 01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:00,840 Speaker 1: have decided that is true about the world. They'll just 2309 01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:03,640 Speaker 1: kind of go with it and they'll interrogated all the time, 2310 01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:05,400 Speaker 1: and you can like those are people you can talk 2311 01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:08,040 Speaker 1: to and maybe ship, like I've done it with my dad, 2312 01:56:08,280 --> 01:56:10,960 Speaker 1: like I've seen it happen with some of these conservative 2313 01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:13,480 Speaker 1: coal miner folks. Like something as small as being able 2314 01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:18,000 Speaker 1: to humanize, like like, okay, if you're talking about something, 2315 01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:19,760 Speaker 1: oh like, well the thing you said like that really 2316 01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:22,960 Speaker 1: upset Joey, and you like Joey, so like maybe think 2317 01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:25,200 Speaker 1: about that, and they'll probably be chiller because like, oh, 2318 01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:27,520 Speaker 1: well that's yeah, it's Joey. I can't I don't want 2319 01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:29,120 Speaker 1: to be a dick to him. If we can just 2320 01:56:29,160 --> 01:56:31,400 Speaker 1: find a way to enact that on a very broad scale, 2321 01:56:32,600 --> 01:56:35,080 Speaker 1: life would be a lot better for a lot of people. Yeah, 2322 01:56:35,160 --> 01:56:40,000 Speaker 1: it's this, it's this dichotomy between a lot people want 2323 01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:43,240 Speaker 1: to own the folks they see as like being against 2324 01:56:43,240 --> 01:56:45,600 Speaker 1: them or being on the other side. But also people 2325 01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:48,680 Speaker 1: don't want to be a dick to people that like 2326 01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:51,120 Speaker 1: they like, you don't want to feel like you're a dick. 2327 01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:55,720 Speaker 1: So if you if you lean more into the weird 2328 01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:59,120 Speaker 1: in opposition, then you're going to trigger the well I 2329 01:56:59,160 --> 01:57:02,800 Speaker 1: wanna to make the person who disagrees with me angry 2330 01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:05,000 Speaker 1: side of the brain. But if you can lean into 2331 01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:07,960 Speaker 1: the like, hey, like we can get along like and 2332 01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:10,280 Speaker 1: I and and maybe you don't want to feel like 2333 01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:12,920 Speaker 1: an asshole. If we get along, then I don't know, 2334 01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:16,440 Speaker 1: that's a productive place to to continue conversations from and 2335 01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:18,400 Speaker 1: a good way to shift people, I think. And then 2336 01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:20,360 Speaker 1: when you're and then when your area floods because of 2337 01:57:20,400 --> 01:57:24,919 Speaker 1: severe rain and storms, that we have people that can help. Yeah, 2338 01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:29,200 Speaker 1: it's the importance of interacting with people in person, like offline, 2339 01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:31,280 Speaker 1: which is like obviously more difficult to do because we're 2340 01:57:31,320 --> 01:57:34,959 Speaker 1: still tried to depend. Yeah, they're like their caveat caveat caveat, 2341 01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:38,440 Speaker 1: but like it's so much easier to talk to someone 2342 01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:40,960 Speaker 1: and kind of like see the world you shift, or 2343 01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:44,120 Speaker 1: even just humanize yourself to someone who is inclined to 2344 01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:47,000 Speaker 1: not thinking of you as someone worth talking to. Like, yeah, 2345 01:57:47,240 --> 01:57:49,080 Speaker 1: as long as it's not you're not putting yourself in danger, 2346 01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:52,920 Speaker 1: like there's yeah, obviously I'm a blond lady, you know. 2347 01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:56,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, still we're not talking about like, oh, you 2348 01:57:56,720 --> 01:57:58,680 Speaker 1: have to go be friendly to people who want to 2349 01:57:58,760 --> 01:58:02,400 Speaker 1: murder you because you're trying. No, it's about no, we're 2350 01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:04,920 Speaker 1: not saying that. But most of these people don't think 2351 01:58:04,920 --> 01:58:08,320 Speaker 1: that maybe they have some regressive attitude or or they'll 2352 01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:10,920 Speaker 1: use the word gay to mean something, you know, not cool, 2353 01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:12,200 Speaker 1: and you'd be like, hey, you don't have to to 2354 01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:14,640 Speaker 1: be like, hey, you know, I'm you know, I'm actually 2355 01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:17,520 Speaker 1: gay jan or maybe don't hope that maybe you do, 2356 01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:19,880 Speaker 1: depending on the situation, to be like yeah, maybe maybe 2357 01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:21,560 Speaker 1: there's other words that we can use for this because 2358 01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:26,120 Speaker 1: yeah whatever, yeah, And and you can shift people into 2359 01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:31,120 Speaker 1: a closer alliance, um, just by becoming a human in 2360 01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:33,720 Speaker 1: their eyes and also letting them become a human in 2361 01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:38,040 Speaker 1: your eyes, um, which is necessary. The other option is 2362 01:58:38,240 --> 01:58:40,440 Speaker 1: not a pleasant one. So I would prefer the option 2363 01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:43,840 Speaker 1: where more people grow to see each other as human 2364 01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:47,960 Speaker 1: and worth supporting. Right, better tactic to me? Yeah, I 2365 01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:50,080 Speaker 1: know there's this argument where like no one is like 2366 01:58:50,360 --> 01:58:53,080 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to educate you, I shouldn't have to 2367 01:58:53,240 --> 01:58:55,800 Speaker 1: put the time into to shift you, and like that 2368 01:58:55,960 --> 01:58:58,200 Speaker 1: is valid, that's fair, like you shouldn't have to but 2369 01:58:58,320 --> 01:59:02,160 Speaker 1: ideally no, no, yeah, but if you want to that 2370 01:59:02,320 --> 01:59:04,520 Speaker 1: change to happen, it's probably not going to happen unless 2371 01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:06,360 Speaker 1: she puts an effort in because they're probably not done. 2372 01:59:06,600 --> 01:59:10,880 Speaker 1: They think they're fine, and I don't know, there's a 2373 01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:13,320 Speaker 1: bunch of ship that you shouldn't have to do that. 2374 01:59:13,360 --> 01:59:15,919 Speaker 1: We're also all gonna have to do like I shouldn't 2375 01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:18,120 Speaker 1: we I shouldn't have to say, hey, guys, maybe we 2376 01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:20,960 Speaker 1: don't kill the ocean. Maybe killing the ocean is a 2377 01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:23,080 Speaker 1: bad idea, like I shouldn't have to No one should 2378 01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:30,720 Speaker 1: have to say that, but we do not stop, not please. 2379 01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:34,160 Speaker 1: The fact that you shouldn't have to do something also 2380 01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:36,520 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that like the thing doesn't need to be done. 2381 01:59:36,520 --> 01:59:39,480 Speaker 1: And obviously I don't think that the primary onus on 2382 01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:45,520 Speaker 1: speaking to let's say, the kind of increasingly radicalized white, 2383 01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:48,720 Speaker 1: lower middle and middle class, I don't think that falls 2384 01:59:48,760 --> 01:59:51,160 Speaker 1: primarily on people of color, on on the l g 2385 01:59:51,280 --> 01:59:53,280 Speaker 1: BT community. It falls on people like you would make 2386 01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:57,240 Speaker 1: him you know. Yeah, but it's still has to be done, 2387 01:59:57,400 --> 01:59:59,520 Speaker 1: Like it's a thing that needs to be done. And 2388 01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:02,400 Speaker 1: I'm not saying, hey, you out there, who you know, 2389 02:00:02,680 --> 02:00:06,320 Speaker 1: left where you grew up in rural Alabama because someone 2390 02:00:06,400 --> 02:00:08,280 Speaker 1: was going to fucking murder you and you had to 2391 02:00:08,320 --> 02:00:10,800 Speaker 1: get to a place where you could not deal with that. 2392 02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you need to go rolling back to Alabama. Um, 2393 02:00:15,080 --> 02:00:19,040 Speaker 1: but it's good that people are talking and working with 2394 02:00:19,120 --> 02:00:21,560 Speaker 1: and trying to build connections with folks out there and 2395 02:00:21,640 --> 02:00:24,600 Speaker 1: change the nature of kind of aspects of the culture 2396 02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:27,360 Speaker 1: and make things better, because that needs to be done. 2397 02:00:27,400 --> 02:00:32,360 Speaker 1: We can't just be like, well, fuck some of those people. Yeah, 2398 02:00:32,480 --> 02:00:34,880 Speaker 1: I mean, get that is definitely easier if you are 2399 02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:37,160 Speaker 1: like one of the bros. If you are you know, 2400 02:00:37,360 --> 02:00:42,680 Speaker 1: a bigger sis adjacent dude, that is that is of 2401 02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:46,680 Speaker 1: course going to make the yeah, I mean what you 2402 02:00:46,720 --> 02:00:49,480 Speaker 1: think about, like that's kind of the tax. That the 2403 02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:51,720 Speaker 1: right word. But the fact that you do feel comfortable 2404 02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:54,280 Speaker 1: and you're you're safe and you're not under a threat 2405 02:00:54,320 --> 02:00:56,560 Speaker 1: in those spaces because of who you are, like as 2406 02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:58,800 Speaker 1: like a white sister or even a white says lady 2407 02:00:59,200 --> 02:01:01,880 Speaker 1: like you like the price you pay for that is 2408 02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:04,360 Speaker 1: making it easier for everyone else to feel that too, 2409 02:01:04,640 --> 02:01:07,800 Speaker 1: like exactly, like that's your job, other people's jobs to survive. 2410 02:01:07,840 --> 02:01:10,000 Speaker 1: And you can be the one that pushes the boundaries 2411 02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:11,800 Speaker 1: on these things. So when someone says something not great, 2412 02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:13,280 Speaker 1: you can kind of call them out in like a 2413 02:01:13,400 --> 02:01:15,960 Speaker 1: browish way, and they can respond to that a lot 2414 02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:19,280 Speaker 1: better than, you know than a lot of other people 2415 02:01:19,320 --> 02:01:21,600 Speaker 1: who they don't know, you know, screaming at them in 2416 02:01:21,680 --> 02:01:24,520 Speaker 1: a no context scenario, We're like, oh, like, oh, you 2417 02:01:24,520 --> 02:01:26,280 Speaker 1: don't und like I'm a pretty lady. You don't want 2418 02:01:26,320 --> 02:01:28,840 Speaker 1: to make me upset by being rude, That's exactly, Yeah, 2419 02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:32,040 Speaker 1: Like you shouldn't. You should see this thing as rude 2420 02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:34,600 Speaker 1: and not okay, like the amount of men who have 2421 02:01:34,640 --> 02:01:39,400 Speaker 1: apologized me down there for swearing it's so funny. Yeah, man, 2422 02:01:39,480 --> 02:01:42,200 Speaker 1: my dude, I live in Philadelphia, but that's cute. But 2423 02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:45,480 Speaker 1: if I could disharness any of that, like chivalrous whatever, 2424 02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:50,360 Speaker 1: rose patriarchal viewpoint, like hey, apply this to being cool 2425 02:01:50,440 --> 02:01:52,680 Speaker 1: to my trans friends, are like not being rude to 2426 02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:58,200 Speaker 1: anyone else, Like sure, I'm down. Yeah, we don't take 2427 02:01:58,280 --> 02:02:04,120 Speaker 1: kindingly to miss gendering around these parts for a lot 2428 02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:05,600 Speaker 1: of people at least, Like you know, when I worked 2429 02:02:05,600 --> 02:02:07,440 Speaker 1: at like smaller workplaces, you know, where it's like a 2430 02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:10,480 Speaker 1: small business where I know the owner. Even if I mean, 2431 02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:12,760 Speaker 1: if some other employees want to unionize, the prospect is 2432 02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:15,000 Speaker 1: always kind of more weird or challenging because you know, 2433 02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:16,920 Speaker 1: it's a smaller business. Maybe it's like connected to like 2434 02:02:16,920 --> 02:02:19,760 Speaker 1: a larger you know, larger overall industry. You know, Like 2435 02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:21,040 Speaker 1: when I was like when I when I was like 2436 02:02:21,080 --> 02:02:24,800 Speaker 1: a park or instructor. Right, I had discussions with other 2437 02:02:24,880 --> 02:02:26,600 Speaker 1: with other like employees about doing you know, like a 2438 02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Parker instructors union type thing. But but it's it's it's 2439 02:02:29,440 --> 02:02:31,520 Speaker 1: hard when there's there's like not many of you or 2440 02:02:31,640 --> 02:02:33,200 Speaker 1: like you know, the owner. What would you say is 2441 02:02:33,240 --> 02:02:35,240 Speaker 1: like good good ways to at least get that get 2442 02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:38,000 Speaker 1: that conversation going among other employees and then you know, 2443 02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:42,880 Speaker 1: like similar similar examples from other stuff for people who 2444 02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:44,640 Speaker 1: deal with like smaller workplaces that aren't you know, like 2445 02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:46,880 Speaker 1: a co worker. They're not working for the Amazon or anything. 2446 02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:50,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's more like small local stuff. Right. 2447 02:02:50,080 --> 02:02:54,120 Speaker 1: So like the most important basic building block of all 2448 02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:57,760 Speaker 1: this is one on one conversation. That's organizing. Right. And 2449 02:02:57,800 --> 02:02:59,400 Speaker 1: even if you just work with like three or four 2450 02:02:59,400 --> 02:03:02,840 Speaker 1: other people and maybe unionizing and a formal structure doesn't 2451 02:03:02,840 --> 02:03:04,720 Speaker 1: necessarily make sense or it seems like it might be 2452 02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,320 Speaker 1: too much of a headache, you're still you know, like 2453 02:03:07,360 --> 02:03:09,440 Speaker 1: a group of workers coming together. It's still a union. 2454 02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:10,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what n l r B has to 2455 02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:13,920 Speaker 1: say about it. And you you have shared interests and 2456 02:03:13,960 --> 02:03:16,120 Speaker 1: share challenges, and there's things that work you probably want 2457 02:03:16,120 --> 02:03:19,160 Speaker 1: to change so even coming together and discussing that with 2458 02:03:19,200 --> 02:03:21,480 Speaker 1: your coworkers, Like there's no law that says you have 2459 02:03:21,600 --> 02:03:22,960 Speaker 1: to be in a union. If you want to get 2460 02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:25,360 Speaker 1: some ship done, you can march on your boss at 2461 02:03:25,480 --> 02:03:27,720 Speaker 1: WW style and make them and demand a meeting. You 2462 02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:30,800 Speaker 1: can make a petition, you can do public pressure campaigns 2463 02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:32,800 Speaker 1: like all of the things. When all of them, but 2464 02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:35,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the tools that we see organized labor 2465 02:03:35,480 --> 02:03:38,840 Speaker 1: engaging in and unions engaging in those are those are 2466 02:03:40,200 --> 02:03:42,880 Speaker 1: available to everyone else too. It's easier if you're within 2467 02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:45,200 Speaker 1: that framework because you have that firepower behind you and 2468 02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:48,400 Speaker 1: you have maybe some legal protections, but just as workers, 2469 02:03:48,840 --> 02:03:50,800 Speaker 1: you know that. I guess it's more like the IWW 2470 02:03:51,000 --> 02:03:54,080 Speaker 1: solidarity unuse a multiply where like we didn't like we 2471 02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:56,120 Speaker 1: don't need to do no stinke ad badges like we're 2472 02:03:56,120 --> 02:03:58,320 Speaker 1: a union because we say we're a union, we're going 2473 02:03:58,400 --> 02:04:01,280 Speaker 1: to take control of things in our own way. Like 2474 02:04:01,720 --> 02:04:04,360 Speaker 1: you see this in UM. I'm trying to I think 2475 02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:06,920 Speaker 1: what's it called diversity threast there's a there's a thrift 2476 02:04:06,960 --> 02:04:10,720 Speaker 1: shop and I think Richmond, Virginia where workers just like 2477 02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:12,560 Speaker 1: they weren't being treated properly. I think it was like 2478 02:04:12,600 --> 02:04:14,960 Speaker 1: a like a queer community space that wasn't living up 2479 02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:17,720 Speaker 1: to its values due to actions by management, and so 2480 02:04:17,840 --> 02:04:20,000 Speaker 1: they just put a letter on the doors that we're 2481 02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:22,960 Speaker 1: not coming to work until you fix this. Here are 2482 02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:26,560 Speaker 1: clear demands, here's what we need. Here, you go figure 2483 02:04:26,560 --> 02:04:28,800 Speaker 1: it out. Like, I don't think they're in a formal union, 2484 02:04:28,840 --> 02:04:31,720 Speaker 1: but they're acting collectively, and that's something that is totally 2485 02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,720 Speaker 1: available to everyone as long as you're in a workplace. 2486 02:04:35,200 --> 02:04:37,800 Speaker 1: If you're independent contractor like me and probably some of you, 2487 02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:41,200 Speaker 1: that sucks and it's harder, but you can always find 2488 02:04:41,200 --> 02:04:44,360 Speaker 1: your people, and you can always there's always options, right, 2489 02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:46,040 Speaker 1: Like you don't have to just join a union. You 2490 02:04:46,080 --> 02:04:50,840 Speaker 1: don't have to be a teamster to get shipped done. Yeah. 2491 02:04:50,880 --> 02:04:52,440 Speaker 1: I think you know, when you were saying that, I 2492 02:04:52,480 --> 02:04:54,440 Speaker 1: was going through my past experience as a place like that. 2493 02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:56,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, we we kind of did do some 2494 02:04:56,440 --> 02:04:59,360 Speaker 1: of that stuff to varying degrees of success. Sometimes it 2495 02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:02,680 Speaker 1: works out well, sometimes it doesn't work out so well. Um, 2496 02:05:02,720 --> 02:05:04,440 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean there was definitely a while where 2497 02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:06,800 Speaker 1: we did that did definitely makes them make some decent 2498 02:05:06,880 --> 02:05:10,600 Speaker 1: changes kind of based on on that model. Yeah, it's 2499 02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:12,960 Speaker 1: kind of a shift of perception where like you were 2500 02:05:12,960 --> 02:05:14,560 Speaker 1: just doing this because this is because you're a worker, 2501 02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:16,120 Speaker 1: and like we need to do this. But if you 2502 02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:17,840 Speaker 1: just take a step back and think of it, it's 2503 02:05:17,920 --> 02:05:20,720 Speaker 1: like this is a labor action. We're a union of workers. 2504 02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:23,080 Speaker 1: Like even just that little shift where it's like it's 2505 02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:26,440 Speaker 1: it's always us against them, but look as us as 2506 02:05:26,440 --> 02:05:29,800 Speaker 1: a little as a group, as a collective against this manager, 2507 02:05:29,880 --> 02:05:33,040 Speaker 1: against this exploitative practice. I think that has a little 2508 02:05:33,040 --> 02:05:35,240 Speaker 1: bit of power and a little bit of energy because 2509 02:05:35,280 --> 02:05:38,000 Speaker 1: your religion now and I'm still I think maybe it 2510 02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:41,920 Speaker 1: makes you feel a little less alone. And also and 2511 02:05:41,960 --> 02:05:45,560 Speaker 1: like you know, concerned activity is a legally protective regard too, 2512 02:05:45,880 --> 02:05:47,840 Speaker 1: so like there are some busin pieces of labor law 2513 02:05:47,880 --> 02:05:50,080 Speaker 1: that are useful in these situations too. If you have 2514 02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:52,760 Speaker 1: a nerdy friend who would like to read about them 2515 02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:59,720 Speaker 1: for you. All right, well, I think that's going to 2516 02:05:59,800 --> 02:06:01,840 Speaker 1: do it for us here and it could happen here. 2517 02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:09,640 Speaker 1: Um until next time, remember um fuck it organized. And 2518 02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:12,760 Speaker 1: where can people find Kim Kelly online if we want 2519 02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:16,760 Speaker 1: to send angry tweets? Oh wow, just try me, buddy, 2520 02:06:17,320 --> 02:06:21,800 Speaker 1: um at grim Kim because my college radio DJ name 2521 02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:25,400 Speaker 1: will never die and uh you can if you are 2522 02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:28,040 Speaker 1: thus inclined, you can pre order my book. But like 2523 02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:32,040 Speaker 1: Hell the Untold History of American Labor on the Internet, 2524 02:06:32,120 --> 02:06:36,200 Speaker 1: hopefully not Amazon, hopefully not. Yeah. I mean, if you do, like, 2525 02:06:36,240 --> 02:06:39,440 Speaker 1: thank you, But there's other places that are better. You 2526 02:06:39,640 --> 02:06:41,000 Speaker 1: Do you want people to send you a bunch of 2527 02:06:41,080 --> 02:06:45,520 Speaker 1: random knives, Kim knives? I mean I wouldn't. We've had 2528 02:06:45,520 --> 02:06:47,560 Speaker 1: a lot of luck with that in the past. I 2529 02:06:47,680 --> 02:06:50,800 Speaker 1: like nice that, like skincare, I like loose leaf tea, 2530 02:06:51,200 --> 02:06:54,840 Speaker 1: I contain multitudes. Really, send Kim a loose leaf T 2531 02:06:55,040 --> 02:06:59,680 Speaker 1: skincare knife, one of those one of those exfoliating knives 2532 02:06:59,720 --> 02:07:02,640 Speaker 1: with a with a T infuser in the in the hilt. 2533 02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:06,840 Speaker 1: Somebody make that sounds like that sounds like the next 2534 02:07:06,880 --> 02:07:10,800 Speaker 1: behind the bastards merch, Yeah, the T knife. Yeah, well, 2535 02:07:10,840 --> 02:07:12,920 Speaker 1: we'll put that out after we get finished where We've 2536 02:07:12,960 --> 02:07:15,720 Speaker 1: got a very exciting Black Friday product this year, which 2537 02:07:15,800 --> 02:07:21,840 Speaker 1: is a male to male UH adapter. People say you 2538 02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:24,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't do it. They say it causes elextrocution and fires 2539 02:07:24,560 --> 02:07:26,760 Speaker 1: and death. And I think those people are cuts um 2540 02:07:26,920 --> 02:07:31,160 Speaker 1: by our mail to mail adapter show the woke establishment 2541 02:07:31,200 --> 02:07:42,280 Speaker 1: that you won't be you won't be chained from cavalry 2542 02:07:42,360 --> 02:07:46,040 Speaker 1: audio comes the new true crime podcast, The Shadow Girls. 2543 02:07:47,160 --> 02:07:49,360 Speaker 1: I always wanted to know what it felt like kill 2544 02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:53,280 Speaker 1: them and started laughing. Prosecutors described him as a serial 2545 02:07:53,400 --> 02:07:56,400 Speaker 1: killer survant, kicking up these girls, getting him in a 2546 02:07:56,480 --> 02:07:59,360 Speaker 1: position of vulnerability. When he got hold of their neck, 2547 02:07:59,480 --> 02:08:02,879 Speaker 1: that was it. I'm Caroline Asia, a journalist and lifelong 2548 02:08:02,920 --> 02:08:06,040 Speaker 1: resident of the Pacific Northwest. I grew up near the 2549 02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:08,720 Speaker 1: banks of the Green River and in the shadow of 2550 02:08:08,720 --> 02:08:12,000 Speaker 1: the killer that bears its name. Time did you bring 2551 02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:14,640 Speaker 1: the camera? Wonder of time? Just one time? Time he 2552 02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:18,000 Speaker 1: started fantasizing about having sex with his mother, and he 2553 02:08:18,120 --> 02:08:22,160 Speaker 1: fantasized about killing her. But this podcast isn't only about 2554 02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:25,800 Speaker 1: tracking down the killer. It's about the victims. We stayed 2555 02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:30,280 Speaker 1: in the woods. He always liked to go into the woods. 2556 02:08:30,400 --> 02:08:33,440 Speaker 1: Kind of strange. Do you know how he feels about prostitutes? 2557 02:08:33,720 --> 02:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Listen to The Shadow Girls on the I Heart Radio app, 2558 02:08:36,760 --> 02:08:44,240 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Evrodsky, 2559 02:08:44,320 --> 02:08:46,760 Speaker 1: author of the New York Times bestseller fair Play and 2560 02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:49,920 Speaker 1: Find Your Unicorn Space activists on the gender division of 2561 02:08:50,040 --> 02:08:53,560 Speaker 1: labor attorney and family mediator. And I'm doctor as eating 2562 02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:56,800 Speaker 1: a Rucar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an 2563 02:08:56,800 --> 02:09:00,760 Speaker 1: expertise and the science of stress, resilience, mental health and burnout. 2564 02:09:01,040 --> 02:09:03,960 Speaker 1: We're so excited to share our podcast Time Out, a 2565 02:09:04,040 --> 02:09:07,760 Speaker 1: production of I Heeart Podcasts and Hell of Sunshine. We're 2566 02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:10,680 Speaker 1: uncovering why society makes it so hard for women to 2567 02:09:10,760 --> 02:09:13,400 Speaker 1: treat their time with the value it deserves. So take 2568 02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:16,720 Speaker 1: this time out with us. Listen to Time Out, a 2569 02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:20,000 Speaker 1: fair play podcast on the I heart radio app, Apple 2570 02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:25,480 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The art world 2571 02:09:25,520 --> 02:09:29,720 Speaker 1: it is essentially a money laundering business. The best fakes 2572 02:09:29,720 --> 02:09:32,280 Speaker 1: are still hanging off people's walls. You know they don't 2573 02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:35,680 Speaker 1: even know or suspect that they're fakes. I'm out like 2574 02:09:35,760 --> 02:09:40,000 Speaker 1: Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed and 2575 02:09:40,160 --> 02:09:47,120 Speaker 1: forgery in the art world. You knew the painting was fake. Um. 2576 02:09:47,320 --> 02:09:51,000 Speaker 1: Listen to Art Fraud starting February one on the I 2577 02:09:51,120 --> 02:10:10,120 Speaker 1: Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, 2578 02:10:10,240 --> 02:10:12,200 Speaker 1: Robert Evans here, this is it could happen here, the 2579 02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:14,720 Speaker 1: show about how things are falling apart and how maybe 2580 02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:18,120 Speaker 1: they could be made a bit better. Uh right, now, 2581 02:10:18,720 --> 02:10:22,200 Speaker 1: today we're doing an episode that is based on a 2582 02:10:22,840 --> 02:10:26,040 Speaker 1: I don't know essay Garrison wrote and I edited that 2583 02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:29,840 Speaker 1: we think you'll find interesting. So here it goes. Green 2584 02:10:29,920 --> 02:10:33,120 Speaker 1: capitalism promises to deliver us all the same luxuries and 2585 02:10:33,160 --> 02:10:36,080 Speaker 1: commodities that we enjoy today, but without doing net harm 2586 02:10:36,160 --> 02:10:39,400 Speaker 1: to the biosphere. It's the message liberal elites try to 2587 02:10:39,480 --> 02:10:41,880 Speaker 1: hold on when they make their case for being better 2588 02:10:41,920 --> 02:10:46,160 Speaker 1: stewards of the environment than Republicans. This is not untrue, 2589 02:10:46,280 --> 02:10:48,760 Speaker 1: but it's also not true enough to stop your house 2590 02:10:48,760 --> 02:10:51,200 Speaker 1: from flooding or your town from being incinerated in a 2591 02:10:51,240 --> 02:10:55,400 Speaker 1: hell storm. When it comes to the methods green capitalism 2592 02:10:55,480 --> 02:10:58,520 Speaker 1: posits by which we might reverse course without changing the 2593 02:10:58,520 --> 02:11:01,480 Speaker 1: direction of the ship. One term you'll here often is 2594 02:11:01,880 --> 02:11:04,960 Speaker 1: energy efficiency. I want to read a statement I found 2595 02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:07,720 Speaker 1: on white House dot gov, a fact sheet on the 2596 02:11:07,720 --> 02:11:11,160 Speaker 1: new US government commitment to reduce carbon emissions by fifty 2597 02:11:11,200 --> 02:11:15,760 Speaker 1: to fifty. I should note that's fifty of the two 2598 02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:18,840 Speaker 1: thousand five levels, which were like fient high or something 2599 02:11:18,880 --> 02:11:22,680 Speaker 1: like that. Anyway, here's the quote. The United States can 2600 02:11:22,720 --> 02:11:25,680 Speaker 1: create good paying jobs and cut emissions and energy costs 2601 02:11:25,760 --> 02:11:29,560 Speaker 1: for families by supporting efficiency upgrades and electrification and buildings. 2602 02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:34,160 Speaker 1: Through support for job creating retrofit programs and sustainable affordable housing, 2603 02:11:34,360 --> 02:11:37,080 Speaker 1: wider use of heat pumps and induction stoves, adoption of 2604 02:11:37,120 --> 02:11:40,360 Speaker 1: modern energy codes for new buildings. The United States will 2605 02:11:40,400 --> 02:11:44,040 Speaker 1: also invest in new technologies to reduce emissions associated with construction, 2606 02:11:44,120 --> 02:11:49,560 Speaker 1: including for high performance electrified buildings. Now, energy efficiency is 2607 02:11:49,600 --> 02:11:52,280 Speaker 1: in fact a fine goal, and trying to reduce emissions 2608 02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:55,520 Speaker 1: is broadly good. But the sad and kind of weird 2609 02:11:55,600 --> 02:11:59,600 Speaker 1: fact is that increasing efficiency can sometimes mean increasing pollution 2610 02:11:59,800 --> 02:12:03,040 Speaker 1: through what's known as the efficiency paradox, which is of 2611 02:12:03,040 --> 02:12:05,920 Speaker 1: course the title of the episode, because what you want 2612 02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:08,080 Speaker 1: you want us to think of a second title, of 2613 02:12:08,080 --> 02:12:11,480 Speaker 1: a separate title from that. Come on. So, first off, 2614 02:12:11,960 --> 02:12:16,400 Speaker 1: what does energy efficiency mean? In general terms, energy efficiency 2615 02:12:16,480 --> 02:12:18,840 Speaker 1: refers to the amount of output that can be produced 2616 02:12:18,840 --> 02:12:22,240 Speaker 1: with a given input of energy. Output being stuff that 2617 02:12:22,360 --> 02:12:24,640 Speaker 1: energy is used to do like light your house or 2618 02:12:24,680 --> 02:12:28,880 Speaker 1: wash your clothing, or power your wall mounted twenty volt 2619 02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:32,000 Speaker 1: vibrator that requires as much electricity as an arc welder 2620 02:12:32,000 --> 02:12:35,400 Speaker 1: in order to use. Energy savings are the reduction of 2621 02:12:35,480 --> 02:12:38,920 Speaker 1: energy use without the loss of output produced. Improved energy 2622 02:12:38,960 --> 02:12:41,960 Speaker 1: efficiency is expected to bring a number of benefits. First 2623 02:12:41,960 --> 02:12:46,360 Speaker 1: of all, reducing energy usage should result in lower energy bills. Ideally, 2624 02:12:46,400 --> 02:12:50,240 Speaker 1: reduced energy demand also means that energy imports can be decreased. 2625 02:12:50,640 --> 02:12:54,640 Speaker 1: The International Energy Agency has estimated that strict efficiency policies 2626 02:12:54,680 --> 02:12:57,480 Speaker 1: could allow the world to achieve more than forty of 2627 02:12:57,560 --> 02:13:00,760 Speaker 1: the greenhouse gas emissions cuts needed to reach its climate 2628 02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:04,760 Speaker 1: goals even without new technology, So there is considerable wiggle 2629 02:13:04,840 --> 02:13:08,280 Speaker 1: room within the existing structures of global society to reduce 2630 02:13:08,320 --> 02:13:13,720 Speaker 1: emissions a lot without fancy space technology. But despite substantial 2631 02:13:13,800 --> 02:13:16,600 Speaker 1: energy efficiency gains in the past few decades and decreases 2632 02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:19,400 Speaker 1: an output from places like the United States, we as 2633 02:13:19,400 --> 02:13:22,400 Speaker 1: a species are using more energy than we have pretty 2634 02:13:22,480 --> 02:13:26,120 Speaker 1: much forever, and emissions wildly surpass are or the Earth's 2635 02:13:26,120 --> 02:13:30,080 Speaker 1: ability to handle them. Quoting from the Global Carbon Project quote, 2636 02:13:30,400 --> 02:13:34,640 Speaker 1: global energy growth is outpacing decarbonization. Despite positive progress in 2637 02:13:34,680 --> 02:13:37,320 Speaker 1: twenty countries whose economies have grown over the last decade 2638 02:13:37,320 --> 02:13:40,040 Speaker 1: and their emissions have declined, growth and energy used from 2639 02:13:40,040 --> 02:13:42,800 Speaker 1: fossil fuel sources is still outpacing the rise of low 2640 02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:46,840 Speaker 1: carbon sources and activities. A robust global economy in sufficient 2641 02:13:46,880 --> 02:13:50,080 Speaker 1: emission reductions and developed countries and a need for increased 2642 02:13:50,160 --> 02:13:53,320 Speaker 1: energy use in developing countries where per capita emissions remain 2643 02:13:53,360 --> 02:13:55,960 Speaker 1: far below those of wealthier nations, will continue to put 2644 02:13:56,040 --> 02:13:58,960 Speaker 1: upward pressure on c O two emissions. They use the 2645 02:13:59,040 --> 02:14:02,720 Speaker 1: term developing um and developed. We don't prefer those. But 2646 02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:07,000 Speaker 1: obviously population growth contributes to all that, the growth and 2647 02:14:07,080 --> 02:14:10,640 Speaker 1: the use of energy and the emissions of carbon um 2648 02:14:10,680 --> 02:14:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, more people, more cars in the road, whatever, 2649 02:14:12,640 --> 02:14:15,960 Speaker 1: But it's not really the primary factor that's adding onto 2650 02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:18,560 Speaker 1: the increase in energy use for the human race. We'll 2651 02:14:18,560 --> 02:14:21,040 Speaker 1: talk about that later, though for now, it's important to 2652 02:14:21,080 --> 02:14:24,400 Speaker 1: note that the full potential energy savings, like in these 2653 02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:26,680 Speaker 1: kind of hypotheticals about how much could be saved by 2654 02:14:26,680 --> 02:14:30,160 Speaker 1: improving efficiency, are usually estimated by assuming that demand for 2655 02:14:30,280 --> 02:14:34,200 Speaker 1: energy services will remain unchanged after energy efficiency gains. So 2656 02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:37,839 Speaker 1: when they say that we can get of the greenhouse emissions, 2657 02:14:37,880 --> 02:14:42,720 Speaker 1: gases gas reductions we need by increasing efficiency, they're doing 2658 02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:45,560 Speaker 1: that assuming that nothing will change about our overall energy 2659 02:14:45,640 --> 02:14:48,880 Speaker 1: use when we make things more efficient. But time and 2660 02:14:48,920 --> 02:14:51,000 Speaker 1: time again we see that once products are made more 2661 02:14:51,120 --> 02:14:54,760 Speaker 1: energy efficient, people often end up consuming, producing, or even 2662 02:14:54,920 --> 02:14:57,959 Speaker 1: using more of the thing, which makes the potential savings 2663 02:14:58,280 --> 02:15:01,000 Speaker 1: less meaningful in a net result. Doesn't mean that it's 2664 02:15:01,040 --> 02:15:02,920 Speaker 1: not a net good, but it's not as much as 2665 02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:06,480 Speaker 1: is often calculated in these climate proposals. You can see 2666 02:15:06,480 --> 02:15:09,560 Speaker 1: this demonstrated on the job. If you're in say food services, 2667 02:15:09,960 --> 02:15:11,400 Speaker 1: if you happen to figure out how to do a 2668 02:15:11,480 --> 02:15:14,240 Speaker 1: task faster, your boss probably isn't gonna let you use 2669 02:15:14,280 --> 02:15:16,880 Speaker 1: that extra time to just chill out and do stuff 2670 02:15:16,880 --> 02:15:19,080 Speaker 1: on your phone. Um. What is the phrase, if you 2671 02:15:19,080 --> 02:15:21,840 Speaker 1: can lean, you can clean? Um? So if you do 2672 02:15:21,920 --> 02:15:24,640 Speaker 1: something faster now, you're just expected to do it faster 2673 02:15:24,760 --> 02:15:27,800 Speaker 1: all the time and output more total work for your boss. 2674 02:15:28,160 --> 02:15:30,480 Speaker 1: This is the paradox of efficiency, and it applies to 2675 02:15:30,600 --> 02:15:34,200 Speaker 1: energy as well. On a societal level. Increased energy efficiency 2676 02:15:34,280 --> 02:15:37,120 Speaker 1: is a double edged sword, having the potential to help 2677 02:15:37,200 --> 02:15:40,360 Speaker 1: cut emissions by a significant factor um and having the 2678 02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:43,520 Speaker 1: potential to increase our total energy used depending on what 2679 02:15:43,720 --> 02:15:46,000 Speaker 1: is made more efficient and how people react to it. 2680 02:15:46,520 --> 02:15:49,600 Speaker 1: The idea that energy efficiency improvements can actually lead to 2681 02:15:49,640 --> 02:15:52,160 Speaker 1: more overall energy use goes all the way back to 2682 02:15:52,200 --> 02:15:55,720 Speaker 1: the start of the Industrial Revolution. In eighteen sixty five, 2683 02:15:55,720 --> 02:15:59,880 Speaker 1: economist William Stanley Jeevens published a book called The Coal Question, 2684 02:16:00,200 --> 02:16:03,400 Speaker 1: in which he argued that innovation and efficiency, particularly in 2685 02:16:03,440 --> 02:16:06,080 Speaker 1: the case of the coal powered steam engine, would actually 2686 02:16:06,160 --> 02:16:09,320 Speaker 1: increase the overall consumption of coal, rather than reducing it 2687 02:16:09,360 --> 02:16:12,200 Speaker 1: as it had been intended to do. His prediction that 2688 02:16:12,280 --> 02:16:15,600 Speaker 1: efficiency improvements on steam engines would lead to massive economic 2689 02:16:15,640 --> 02:16:20,200 Speaker 1: expansion accelerating coal consumption was very much correct. This idea, 2690 02:16:20,240 --> 02:16:23,920 Speaker 1: then dubbed the Jeevens paradox, is still very much worth 2691 02:16:23,960 --> 02:16:27,200 Speaker 1: considering when we discuss efficiency gains and policies that are 2692 02:16:27,200 --> 02:16:30,880 Speaker 1: meant to reduce energy consumption and thereby fight climate change. 2693 02:16:31,360 --> 02:16:34,440 Speaker 1: In modern terms, we describe the process by which potential 2694 02:16:34,560 --> 02:16:37,560 Speaker 1: energy savings can be cut by greater use of the 2695 02:16:37,680 --> 02:16:41,600 Speaker 1: energy efficient product as the rebound effect. There are two 2696 02:16:41,600 --> 02:16:44,680 Speaker 1: different kinds of rebound effects observed, the most obvious of 2697 02:16:44,720 --> 02:16:48,360 Speaker 1: which is dubbed the direct rebound effect. Direct rebounds are 2698 02:16:48,360 --> 02:16:51,920 Speaker 1: observed when improvements and energy efficiency for a particular energy 2699 02:16:52,040 --> 02:16:55,440 Speaker 1: service reduces the effective price of that service and thus 2700 02:16:55,480 --> 02:16:58,840 Speaker 1: provides incentives to increase its demand. This leads to the 2701 02:16:58,959 --> 02:17:03,040 Speaker 1: overall increased efficiency, not equaling to a reduction energy used 2702 02:17:03,040 --> 02:17:06,080 Speaker 1: as it as you might think. Direct rebounds are observed 2703 02:17:06,080 --> 02:17:09,440 Speaker 1: when improvements and energy efficiency for a particular energy service 2704 02:17:09,480 --> 02:17:12,120 Speaker 1: reduces the effective price of that enough that it provides 2705 02:17:12,160 --> 02:17:15,560 Speaker 1: incentives to increase its demand. You may upgrade to a 2706 02:17:15,600 --> 02:17:19,000 Speaker 1: more energy efficient appliance, but because of the lower energy costs, 2707 02:17:19,040 --> 02:17:21,280 Speaker 1: you'll use the appliance more often and thus use more 2708 02:17:21,320 --> 02:17:25,400 Speaker 1: total energy. Or in some cases, energy efficiency gains are 2709 02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:28,320 Speaker 1: cut by the fact that more efficient products allow people 2710 02:17:28,360 --> 02:17:31,760 Speaker 1: to use more of that product. For example, someone may 2711 02:17:31,840 --> 02:17:35,080 Speaker 1: get a more efficient fridge that's also much larger, and 2712 02:17:35,120 --> 02:17:38,280 Speaker 1: so even though it cools more efficiently, it's also consuming 2713 02:17:38,400 --> 02:17:42,480 Speaker 1: overall more energy. Transportation has a lot of direct rebounds. 2714 02:17:42,520 --> 02:17:46,200 Speaker 1: Despite massive fuel efficiency gains in recent years, transportation is 2715 02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:51,480 Speaker 1: still responsible for twenty of global greenhouse gas emissions. Transportations 2716 02:17:51,480 --> 02:17:54,920 Speaker 1: contribution to global warming is quickly increasing, with travel producing 2717 02:17:54,959 --> 02:17:59,080 Speaker 1: greater and greater percentages of the planet's carbon footprint. Private 2718 02:17:59,120 --> 02:18:02,440 Speaker 1: automobile tail pipes will drive this phenomenon for the foreseeable future, 2719 02:18:02,560 --> 02:18:04,600 Speaker 1: as the number of active vehicles on the road is 2720 02:18:04,600 --> 02:18:07,120 Speaker 1: projected to grow from seven million in the year two 2721 02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:11,000 Speaker 1: thousand to two billion by so even though cars are 2722 02:18:11,040 --> 02:18:13,879 Speaker 1: a lot more efficient, vastly more cars are being used 2723 02:18:13,920 --> 02:18:17,080 Speaker 1: and of course that's not entirely. It doesn't mean that, like, 2724 02:18:17,200 --> 02:18:19,600 Speaker 1: more efficient cars cause people to buy more cars, but 2725 02:18:19,640 --> 02:18:22,120 Speaker 1: it does make it more affordable for more people to 2726 02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:24,959 Speaker 1: own cars and to drive them further, which drives up, 2727 02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:28,520 Speaker 1: you know, fuel use and drives up emissions. And you 2728 02:18:28,560 --> 02:18:31,000 Speaker 1: see how the whole problem works. And it's not just cars. 2729 02:18:31,040 --> 02:18:34,000 Speaker 1: When planes became more fuel efficient, ticket prices decrease and 2730 02:18:34,040 --> 02:18:36,920 Speaker 1: more people started to travel by plane. As cost per 2731 02:18:36,959 --> 02:18:40,000 Speaker 1: mile dropped, more miles were flown. The fact that airplanes 2732 02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:42,920 Speaker 1: got more fuel efficient didn't reduce general pollution by the 2733 02:18:43,000 --> 02:18:46,240 Speaker 1: air travel industry, quite to the contrary. In fact, the 2734 02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:49,480 Speaker 1: decreased emissions led to an increase in air travel, which 2735 02:18:49,520 --> 02:18:51,520 Speaker 1: shot a hell of a lot more poison out into 2736 02:18:51,560 --> 02:18:53,959 Speaker 1: the sky and also gave us eat pray love. So 2737 02:18:54,440 --> 02:18:57,960 Speaker 1: the other kinds of rebounds are indirect rebound effects. This 2738 02:18:58,040 --> 02:19:01,400 Speaker 1: refers to when energy efficiency leads to monetary savings for 2739 02:19:01,400 --> 02:19:04,400 Speaker 1: a producer or consumer, who then can spend those extra 2740 02:19:04,440 --> 02:19:07,600 Speaker 1: savings on other carbon emitting goods and services that otherwise 2741 02:19:07,640 --> 02:19:10,520 Speaker 1: they couldn't afford. For example, you buy a more fuel 2742 02:19:10,560 --> 02:19:12,760 Speaker 1: efficient car, you save money on fuel, and you wind 2743 02:19:12,879 --> 02:19:14,520 Speaker 1: up with extra funds in your bank account that you 2744 02:19:14,520 --> 02:19:16,360 Speaker 1: can use on a vacation, and maybe you take a 2745 02:19:16,400 --> 02:19:18,800 Speaker 1: flight on that vacation, so in the end you emit 2746 02:19:18,840 --> 02:19:20,959 Speaker 1: more c O two despite the fact that you're emitting 2747 02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:23,360 Speaker 1: less c O two through your car. You've got five 2748 02:19:23,680 --> 02:19:25,600 Speaker 1: bucks extra in the bank and you fly to Mexico 2749 02:19:25,720 --> 02:19:29,240 Speaker 1: on it. Right, that's an indirect rebound effect. So even 2750 02:19:29,240 --> 02:19:31,560 Speaker 1: if a product is replaced by a more efficient one 2751 02:19:31,560 --> 02:19:34,600 Speaker 1: with similar respects, lower energy bills can mean that more 2752 02:19:34,640 --> 02:19:37,600 Speaker 1: consumers will have more money to spend on goods and services. 2753 02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:40,520 Speaker 1: This is generally seen as desirable from a social and 2754 02:19:40,600 --> 02:19:44,080 Speaker 1: economic standpoint, and probably from an individual standpoint. Having more 2755 02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:47,959 Speaker 1: money is always useful UM, but it involves additional energy 2756 02:19:48,000 --> 02:19:51,640 Speaker 1: consumption means that you're consuming more, you're emitting more UM, 2757 02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:54,840 Speaker 1: and so the savings and whatnot haven't actually led to 2758 02:19:54,879 --> 02:19:57,720 Speaker 1: a savings in terms of, you know, from an environmental perspective. 2759 02:19:58,080 --> 02:20:00,640 Speaker 1: An analysis of EU data shows that of twenty nine 2760 02:20:00,640 --> 02:20:04,200 Speaker 1: EU countries, eleven experienced rebound effects of over fifty percent, 2761 02:20:04,280 --> 02:20:07,400 Speaker 1: which means more than half of the gains in energy 2762 02:20:07,440 --> 02:20:12,040 Speaker 1: efficiency were consumed by increases in energy use. Six of 2763 02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:16,640 Speaker 1: those countries, including Denmark, and Finland reached over rebound effects. 2764 02:20:16,680 --> 02:20:18,640 Speaker 1: This is called a backfire, and it means that in 2765 02:20:18,640 --> 02:20:22,320 Speaker 1: those six countries, extra energy spending overtook all of the 2766 02:20:22,360 --> 02:20:26,600 Speaker 1: efficiency gains achieved. Air Conditioning and heating are large contributors 2767 02:20:26,640 --> 02:20:29,720 Speaker 1: to both direct and indirect rebounds. A rebound effect as 2768 02:20:29,760 --> 02:20:32,600 Speaker 1: large as sixty percent has been shown in increased improvements 2769 02:20:32,600 --> 02:20:35,720 Speaker 1: and efficiency in the residential heating sector, which is something 2770 02:20:35,760 --> 02:20:38,600 Speaker 1: that the White House specifically quote about in their paper. 2771 02:20:39,160 --> 02:20:42,160 Speaker 1: In China, long term rebound effects ranging from forty six 2772 02:20:42,200 --> 02:20:45,320 Speaker 1: percent to fifty six percent for residential electricity consumption in 2773 02:20:45,320 --> 02:20:48,560 Speaker 1: Beijing have been estimated. All of this data casts doubt 2774 02:20:48,560 --> 02:20:51,520 Speaker 1: on the wisdom of relying on energy efficiency policies to 2775 02:20:51,560 --> 02:20:54,600 Speaker 1: reduce energy demand. I'm gonna quote here from a report 2776 02:20:54,640 --> 02:20:58,760 Speaker 1: by the Copenhagen School of Energy Infrastructure. In recent decades, 2777 02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:01,640 Speaker 1: large increases in demand and for energy services have globally 2778 02:21:01,720 --> 02:21:05,600 Speaker 1: driven energy consumption. As a counterbalance, energy efficiency has become 2779 02:21:05,640 --> 02:21:09,040 Speaker 1: a key energy policy mechanism to tackle higher energy consumption 2780 02:21:09,040 --> 02:21:12,320 Speaker 1: and emissions, and countries and regions have adopted different targets 2781 02:21:12,320 --> 02:21:15,720 Speaker 1: and policies to achieve energy and environmental objectives. The main 2782 02:21:15,800 --> 02:21:18,240 Speaker 1: goals of these policies are to minimize the dependence on 2783 02:21:18,280 --> 02:21:21,200 Speaker 1: fossil fuels and mitigate local air pollution and g h 2784 02:21:21,240 --> 02:21:24,440 Speaker 1: G emissions. This has been particularly relevant for the energy 2785 02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:28,119 Speaker 1: intensive sectors. The development and deployment of more efficient technologies 2786 02:21:28,160 --> 02:21:31,320 Speaker 1: are along with more technology management, the main channel to 2787 02:21:31,400 --> 02:21:35,880 Speaker 1: achieve these environmental and energy objectives. However, energy efficiency improvements 2788 02:21:35,920 --> 02:21:38,480 Speaker 1: can lead to changes in the demand for energy services, 2789 02:21:38,720 --> 02:21:42,320 Speaker 1: changes that offset some of the expected energy savings. Consequently, 2790 02:21:42,400 --> 02:21:46,320 Speaker 1: forecasts of energy consumption reductions may be overstated. As evidenced 2791 02:21:46,320 --> 02:21:49,040 Speaker 1: by the empirical literature, rebound effects can be a non 2792 02:21:49,040 --> 02:21:53,000 Speaker 1: negligible issue. Therefore, ignoring them can imply an overestimation of 2793 02:21:53,040 --> 02:21:56,360 Speaker 1: the benefits coming from energy efficiency improvements. This can in 2794 02:21:56,360 --> 02:21:59,600 Speaker 1: turn lead to decisions such as the overallocation of public funds. 2795 02:21:59,640 --> 02:22:03,160 Speaker 1: To In a factive environmental and energy policies, policy makers 2796 02:22:03,200 --> 02:22:05,920 Speaker 1: need to take rebound effects into account for air quality, 2797 02:22:06,040 --> 02:22:09,640 Speaker 1: energy security, and climate change policy reasons. A rebound effect 2798 02:22:09,640 --> 02:22:13,000 Speaker 1: different from zero implies that the expected proportional reductions and 2799 02:22:13,000 --> 02:22:16,879 Speaker 1: emissions from fuel efficiency improvements might not be achieved. Therefore, 2800 02:22:17,000 --> 02:22:19,760 Speaker 1: the policy goals to reach specific levels of emissions through 2801 02:22:19,800 --> 02:22:23,960 Speaker 1: fuel efficiency enhancements may need to be adjusted accordingly. Again, 2802 02:22:24,040 --> 02:22:26,800 Speaker 1: we have nothing against the idea of making more efficient devices. 2803 02:22:27,160 --> 02:22:29,720 Speaker 1: The point is that energy efficiency can't be pursued in 2804 02:22:29,760 --> 02:22:32,360 Speaker 1: a vacuum. It has to coincide with changes to a 2805 02:22:32,440 --> 02:22:35,879 Speaker 1: less extract of cancerous mindset regarding the Earth's resources and 2806 02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:39,160 Speaker 1: carrying capacity. Just telling someone you can drive more for 2807 02:22:39,240 --> 02:22:41,560 Speaker 1: less money now, or you can afford to keep your 2808 02:22:41,560 --> 02:22:45,160 Speaker 1: TV on all the time doesn't really help anything. My 2809 02:22:45,280 --> 02:22:48,840 Speaker 1: fear is that governments and corporations, the neoliberal leviathan as 2810 02:22:48,840 --> 02:22:51,160 Speaker 1: we've come to call it on this show, will focus 2811 02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:55,120 Speaker 1: almost overwhelmingly on energy efficiency to maintain economic growth and 2812 02:22:55,160 --> 02:22:58,439 Speaker 1: obscure the overall lack of action on stopping carbon emissions. 2813 02:22:58,760 --> 02:23:02,600 Speaker 1: Think Joe Biden doing donuts in an electric jeep through 2814 02:23:02,600 --> 02:23:05,800 Speaker 1: such a lens as the Biden administration. Energy efficiency is 2815 02:23:05,840 --> 02:23:08,640 Speaker 1: a foil to climate change, is a charade being used 2816 02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:11,400 Speaker 1: to keep relentless economic growth viewed as a net good. 2817 02:23:11,720 --> 02:23:14,400 Speaker 1: It plays into the myth that will be able to mitigate, adapt, 2818 02:23:14,400 --> 02:23:16,760 Speaker 1: and survive the effects of climate change with little to 2819 02:23:16,800 --> 02:23:19,760 Speaker 1: no change to our current lifestyles. What we need to 2820 02:23:19,800 --> 02:23:22,920 Speaker 1: do is decouple human well being from energy consumption and 2821 02:23:22,959 --> 02:23:27,000 Speaker 1: consumption in general. To effectively combat climate change. This needs 2822 02:23:27,000 --> 02:23:29,920 Speaker 1: to happen at such a scale that advocating for individual 2823 02:23:30,000 --> 02:23:32,879 Speaker 1: changes in lifestyle will never be enough, but that is 2824 02:23:32,920 --> 02:23:35,760 Speaker 1: still a significant part of the puzzle. The trick comes 2825 02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:37,760 Speaker 1: in getting people to accept the fact that their life 2826 02:23:37,760 --> 02:23:40,400 Speaker 1: will need to change without them telling them and buying 2827 02:23:40,440 --> 02:23:42,720 Speaker 1: this product instead of that product. Is how you do it. 2828 02:23:43,400 --> 02:23:46,200 Speaker 1: That said, populations of people can and do change their 2829 02:23:46,200 --> 02:23:50,240 Speaker 1: behaviors in pretty profound ways. In nineteen fifty, abortion was 2830 02:23:50,360 --> 02:23:53,000 Speaker 1: not at all an issue for the religious right. Resistance 2831 02:23:53,000 --> 02:23:56,080 Speaker 1: to abortion might make some Protestants distrust you, because that 2832 02:23:56,120 --> 02:23:58,959 Speaker 1: was seen as a Catholic concern. Now abortion is the 2833 02:23:59,000 --> 02:24:02,240 Speaker 1: defining political issue of the ascendant right. Their promise to 2834 02:24:02,280 --> 02:24:05,039 Speaker 1: destroy it is the rock upon which their titanic power 2835 02:24:05,160 --> 02:24:08,640 Speaker 1: is based. In a less calamitous sense. Since two thousand seven, 2836 02:24:08,640 --> 02:24:11,040 Speaker 1: we've gone from a time in which smartphones were expensive 2837 02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:13,520 Speaker 1: trash for rich people to buy, to today, when they're 2838 02:24:13,520 --> 02:24:16,000 Speaker 1: expensive trash that every human being who can afford to 2839 02:24:16,120 --> 02:24:18,680 Speaker 1: has to carry at all times because they're so utterly 2840 02:24:18,720 --> 02:24:22,200 Speaker 1: integrated to our daily life. So yes, people can change. 2841 02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:25,320 Speaker 1: A bigger challenge, though, will be to change the mindset 2842 02:24:25,400 --> 02:24:29,119 Speaker 1: of industry, which is not entirely or even often driven 2843 02:24:29,120 --> 02:24:31,840 Speaker 1: by consumer demand, as we've seen with the release of 2844 02:24:31,879 --> 02:24:34,680 Speaker 1: papers proving Chevron and other oil and gas companies knew 2845 02:24:34,680 --> 02:24:37,560 Speaker 1: about and deliberately hid research on climate change for decades. 2846 02:24:37,959 --> 02:24:40,520 Speaker 1: Big capital will put its thumb on the scale every 2847 02:24:40,560 --> 02:24:43,200 Speaker 1: step of the way. In other words, if you come 2848 02:24:43,240 --> 02:24:46,720 Speaker 1: at the behemoth that is the integrated industrial economy, you'd 2849 02:24:46,720 --> 02:24:50,120 Speaker 1: best come correct. How do we do that? Well, if 2850 02:24:50,120 --> 02:24:52,800 Speaker 1: anybody really knew, they would have, you know, done it 2851 02:24:52,879 --> 02:24:56,280 Speaker 1: by now. The human infrastructure of extract of capitalism is 2852 02:24:56,320 --> 02:24:59,040 Speaker 1: deep and vast and tightly woven into the structure of 2853 02:24:59,080 --> 02:25:02,680 Speaker 1: every government with any real power. So with the full 2854 02:25:02,760 --> 02:25:05,480 Speaker 1: understanding and admission that we aren't claiming to have solutions 2855 02:25:05,520 --> 02:25:08,440 Speaker 1: to that problem, let's talk about something that will at 2856 02:25:08,480 --> 02:25:11,599 Speaker 1: least be part of any real solution to the problem. 2857 02:25:11,720 --> 02:25:14,360 Speaker 1: D growth. This is a term will explain in more 2858 02:25:14,360 --> 02:25:16,959 Speaker 1: detail later, but we mean it's simply as a holistic 2859 02:25:17,000 --> 02:25:21,440 Speaker 1: approach to encouraging reduction and energy consumption and global environmental justice. 2860 02:25:22,120 --> 02:25:24,440 Speaker 1: A paper on the j Evens paradox and the link 2861 02:25:24,520 --> 02:25:28,119 Speaker 1: between innovation, efficiency and sustainability for the Frontiers and Energy 2862 02:25:28,160 --> 02:25:33,000 Speaker 1: Research concluded quote the jevens paradox entails that sustainability problems 2863 02:25:33,040 --> 02:25:36,480 Speaker 1: cannot be solved by technological innovations alone. They must be 2864 02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:40,680 Speaker 1: solved through institutional and behavioral changes. While there are still 2865 02:25:40,800 --> 02:25:43,480 Speaker 1: differences of opinion about the scale every bound effects and 2866 02:25:43,520 --> 02:25:46,120 Speaker 1: ongoing arguments about the macro and micro and longer and 2867 02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:49,800 Speaker 1: shorter term consequences of efficiency, our interest in this topic 2868 02:25:49,840 --> 02:25:52,440 Speaker 1: today is driven by the goal of improving how we 2869 02:25:52,600 --> 02:25:57,280 Speaker 1: use energy rather than totally overhauling or abandoning efficiency. One 2870 02:25:57,280 --> 02:25:59,760 Speaker 1: example would be the current fight in Europe over smartphone 2871 02:25:59,800 --> 02:26:02,480 Speaker 1: chart argers most of the rest of the smartphone industry 2872 02:26:02,520 --> 02:26:05,360 Speaker 1: worldwide has jumped onto USBC is the right kind of 2873 02:26:05,400 --> 02:26:09,080 Speaker 1: port for charging, et cetera with your device. Before this point, 2874 02:26:09,760 --> 02:26:11,560 Speaker 1: those of you have been using smartphones for a decade 2875 02:26:11,600 --> 02:26:13,959 Speaker 1: or we'll remember, there were tons of different charges and 2876 02:26:14,080 --> 02:26:15,800 Speaker 1: thus a tons of different waste. Every phone had to 2877 02:26:15,840 --> 02:26:17,560 Speaker 1: come with a new charger. A lot of them wound 2878 02:26:17,600 --> 02:26:21,240 Speaker 1: up in the trash that has been reduced by everyone 2879 02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:24,400 Speaker 1: jumping onto USBC. But Apple continues to use their own 2880 02:26:24,440 --> 02:26:27,080 Speaker 1: special charger, and now the EU was promising to make 2881 02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:30,640 Speaker 1: a law to mandate USBC for charging new phones in 2882 02:26:30,680 --> 02:26:34,480 Speaker 1: an attempt to reduce waste. This isn't again a bad thing, 2883 02:26:34,600 --> 02:26:37,920 Speaker 1: but if someone's really concerned with waste among the smartphone industry, 2884 02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:42,440 Speaker 1: planned obsolescence is the thing to go after. Now, Targeting 2885 02:26:42,480 --> 02:26:45,080 Speaker 1: planned obsolescence stopping it includes a number of things. And 2886 02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:47,360 Speaker 1: for one thing, you have to fight for the right 2887 02:26:47,400 --> 02:26:50,720 Speaker 1: to repair devices, which is something that a number of corporations, 2888 02:26:50,760 --> 02:26:52,920 Speaker 1: not just in the smartphone industry, have lobbied to in 2889 02:26:52,959 --> 02:26:57,359 Speaker 1: some cases make illegal. More than that, it's stopping somehow 2890 02:26:57,440 --> 02:27:00,760 Speaker 1: these companies from making the conscious decision to brickle technology 2891 02:27:00,800 --> 02:27:03,280 Speaker 1: to increase profits, and that aspect of it is the 2892 02:27:03,320 --> 02:27:06,480 Speaker 1: bigger enemy than even the right to repair. As electronic 2893 02:27:06,520 --> 02:27:09,080 Speaker 1: device has become common and more sectors of daily life 2894 02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:12,080 Speaker 1: via the Internet of Things, the overall share of global 2895 02:27:12,160 --> 02:27:14,720 Speaker 1: energy use that goes to making new versions of old 2896 02:27:14,760 --> 02:27:17,360 Speaker 1: products that could still be working but are designed to 2897 02:27:17,400 --> 02:27:21,200 Speaker 1: break is is really quite depressing. For one example of 2898 02:27:21,240 --> 02:27:23,760 Speaker 1: how large it must be, I haven't found any solid 2899 02:27:23,760 --> 02:27:26,680 Speaker 1: information on the total size of this industry. Things that 2900 02:27:26,720 --> 02:27:29,160 Speaker 1: you have to repeatedly re buy because they're meant to break. 2901 02:27:29,440 --> 02:27:32,320 Speaker 1: But the mobile phone industry and two thousand nineteen alone 2902 02:27:32,400 --> 02:27:35,680 Speaker 1: was four point six percent of global GDP, So that's 2903 02:27:35,879 --> 02:27:39,600 Speaker 1: close to five percent of global GDP just from making 2904 02:27:39,680 --> 02:27:41,680 Speaker 1: phones that are designed to break so you have to 2905 02:27:41,720 --> 02:27:44,160 Speaker 1: buy a new phone. This is an example of an 2906 02:27:44,200 --> 02:27:46,720 Speaker 1: area in which people's perspectives have to be changed, and 2907 02:27:46,840 --> 02:27:49,160 Speaker 1: I think actually that digital fatigue, the fact that we're 2908 02:27:49,160 --> 02:27:52,560 Speaker 1: also fucking exhausted with these devices these days, may provide 2909 02:27:52,600 --> 02:27:55,200 Speaker 1: somewhat of an inroad for convincing people that they need 2910 02:27:55,240 --> 02:27:58,920 Speaker 1: to buy new gadgets less often. But because these gadgets 2911 02:27:58,959 --> 02:28:02,160 Speaker 1: are so crucial to day life, the industry actually also 2912 02:28:02,240 --> 02:28:04,840 Speaker 1: has to be forced to change. And again, rite repair 2913 02:28:04,959 --> 02:28:07,240 Speaker 1: is one part of this, but that doesn't stop Apple 2914 02:28:07,280 --> 02:28:09,720 Speaker 1: from just deciding to throttle their old devices whenever they 2915 02:28:09,720 --> 02:28:11,520 Speaker 1: need to add a new layer to the money pile. 2916 02:28:12,480 --> 02:28:14,840 Speaker 1: Our overall point with all this is that solutions to 2917 02:28:14,879 --> 02:28:17,279 Speaker 1: climate change have to be cultural and not just based 2918 02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:19,480 Speaker 1: in some version of will invent a better version and 2919 02:28:19,520 --> 02:28:22,560 Speaker 1: that will solve the problem. Hybrid gas burning cars and 2920 02:28:22,600 --> 02:28:26,439 Speaker 1: standardized charging chords are nibbling around the edges of the problem. 2921 02:28:26,480 --> 02:28:29,959 Speaker 1: Relying on technological advances pacifies us in the present, and 2922 02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:33,720 Speaker 1: it reinforces the need for certain types of human material codependence, 2923 02:28:33,959 --> 02:28:36,800 Speaker 1: and that kind of codependence leads to increased dependency and 2924 02:28:36,800 --> 02:28:39,560 Speaker 1: more extraction. By no means am I trying to say 2925 02:28:39,600 --> 02:28:42,080 Speaker 1: that innovation is bad. I love gadgets as much as 2926 02:28:42,080 --> 02:28:45,440 Speaker 1: the next person. Innovation also has the capacity to heavily 2927 02:28:45,480 --> 02:28:49,120 Speaker 1: decreased resource extraction. It just has to be tailored with 2928 02:28:49,160 --> 02:28:51,960 Speaker 1: something more than just will make this device more efficient 2929 02:28:52,040 --> 02:28:54,360 Speaker 1: so we can use it more or sell more of them. 2930 02:28:54,800 --> 02:28:58,120 Speaker 1: The capitalist mode of mass resource extraction and grind for 2931 02:28:58,160 --> 02:29:00,959 Speaker 1: efficiency are intertwined, and if we are to limit the 2932 02:29:00,959 --> 02:29:04,160 Speaker 1: most catastrophic effects of climate change, we as a culture 2933 02:29:04,240 --> 02:29:07,119 Speaker 1: need to rethink how we view efficiency and energy use. 2934 02:29:08,040 --> 02:29:10,600 Speaker 1: For the past few hundred years, economic growth has been 2935 02:29:10,600 --> 02:29:13,520 Speaker 1: the road that has led to our current ecological dilemma. 2936 02:29:13,680 --> 02:29:16,680 Speaker 1: The fantasy of switching over to nuclear and renewable energy 2937 02:29:16,720 --> 02:29:19,880 Speaker 1: with a perfectly efficient electric grid to just sidestep climate 2938 02:29:19,920 --> 02:29:23,520 Speaker 1: collapse is it's a fantasy. We missed our chance to 2939 02:29:23,600 --> 02:29:26,840 Speaker 1: do that. Even if we stop all carbon emissions right now, 2940 02:29:27,000 --> 02:29:29,840 Speaker 1: all of them, the carbon already in the atmosphere would 2941 02:29:29,879 --> 02:29:32,680 Speaker 1: push us past two degrees celsius of warming in about 2942 02:29:32,800 --> 02:29:36,680 Speaker 1: fifty years. So what besides carbon capture can we do 2943 02:29:36,800 --> 02:29:39,600 Speaker 1: about this we as in both you the regular listener 2944 02:29:39,640 --> 02:29:42,600 Speaker 1: and the goals with power and real influence well. The 2945 02:29:42,600 --> 02:29:45,880 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen International Panel and Climate Change Special workport 2946 02:29:45,959 --> 02:29:50,000 Speaker 1: indicated that in the absence of speculative negative emissions technologies, 2947 02:29:50,400 --> 02:29:53,400 Speaker 1: the only feasible way to remain within safe carbon budgets 2948 02:29:53,640 --> 02:29:56,760 Speaker 1: was for high incombinations to actively slow down the pace 2949 02:29:56,840 --> 02:30:01,120 Speaker 1: of material production and consumption. D growth is the planned 2950 02:30:01,120 --> 02:30:04,640 Speaker 1: reduction of energy use, corporate profits, over production, and excess 2951 02:30:04,640 --> 02:30:07,840 Speaker 1: consumption designed to bring the economy back into balance with 2952 02:30:07,920 --> 02:30:10,720 Speaker 1: the living world in a way that reduces inequality while 2953 02:30:10,720 --> 02:30:14,360 Speaker 1: focusing on human and ecological well being. This isn't just 2954 02:30:14,400 --> 02:30:16,800 Speaker 1: some sort of utopian Marxist thinking, and in fact, a 2955 02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:19,440 Speaker 1: lot of Marxists have critiques of deep growth, and deep 2956 02:30:19,440 --> 02:30:21,800 Speaker 1: growth could be applied to a number of different economic 2957 02:30:21,840 --> 02:30:25,480 Speaker 1: and governmental systems. There are even some weirdo capitalist advocates 2958 02:30:25,480 --> 02:30:28,720 Speaker 1: of D growth. Discussion about solving climate change can get 2959 02:30:28,760 --> 02:30:31,800 Speaker 1: into uncomfortable eugenics e territory if you aren't careful, So 2960 02:30:31,840 --> 02:30:34,880 Speaker 1: I should emphasize here that D growth is primarily about 2961 02:30:34,920 --> 02:30:39,920 Speaker 1: already wealthy countries limiting their economic growth. When aggregated in 2962 02:30:40,040 --> 02:30:42,640 Speaker 1: terms of income. The richest half of the world, high 2963 02:30:42,640 --> 02:30:45,760 Speaker 1: and upper middle income countries amid eighty six percent of 2964 02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:49,520 Speaker 1: global CO two emissions. The bottom half, lower and middle 2965 02:30:49,560 --> 02:30:54,160 Speaker 1: income countries amid only fourteen percent. With very few exceptions, 2966 02:30:54,160 --> 02:30:57,039 Speaker 1: the richer than nation is, the more it emits. It's 2967 02:30:57,040 --> 02:30:59,760 Speaker 1: all part of the resource extraction infinite growth lie we 2968 02:30:59,840 --> 02:31:03,160 Speaker 1: tell ourselves to keep going. Wealth is so much more 2969 02:31:03,160 --> 02:31:06,560 Speaker 1: of a factor in emissions than population. North America is 2970 02:31:06,560 --> 02:31:09,120 Speaker 1: home to only five percent of the world population, but 2971 02:31:09,160 --> 02:31:12,360 Speaker 1: emits nearly eighteen percent of c O two. Asia is 2972 02:31:12,400 --> 02:31:14,960 Speaker 1: home to sixty percent of the world's population, but amidst 2973 02:31:14,959 --> 02:31:17,800 Speaker 1: just forty nine percent of c O two. Africa has 2974 02:31:17,840 --> 02:31:21,040 Speaker 1: sixteen percent of the population but emits just four percent 2975 02:31:21,080 --> 02:31:23,720 Speaker 1: of its c O two. This is reflected in per 2976 02:31:23,760 --> 02:31:27,800 Speaker 1: capita emissions. The average North American amidst seventeen times more 2977 02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:31,920 Speaker 1: than the average African. This inequality in global emissions lies 2978 02:31:31,959 --> 02:31:34,680 Speaker 1: at the heart of why international agreement on climate change 2979 02:31:34,720 --> 02:31:38,000 Speaker 1: has and continues to be so contentious. The richest countries 2980 02:31:38,040 --> 02:31:40,279 Speaker 1: in the world are home to half the world population 2981 02:31:40,480 --> 02:31:43,000 Speaker 1: and emit eighty six percent of c O two. We 2982 02:31:43,080 --> 02:31:46,039 Speaker 1: want global incomes and living standards, especially for those of 2983 02:31:46,080 --> 02:31:48,720 Speaker 1: the poorest half of the world to rise. The only 2984 02:31:48,720 --> 02:31:50,959 Speaker 1: way to do that while limiting climate change is to 2985 02:31:51,040 --> 02:31:55,199 Speaker 1: shrink the emissions of high income countries. Even several billion 2986 02:31:55,240 --> 02:31:58,400 Speaker 1: additional people in low income nations would leave global emissions 2987 02:31:58,800 --> 02:32:02,240 Speaker 1: almost unchanged. Three or four billion poor individuals would only 2988 02:32:02,280 --> 02:32:05,039 Speaker 1: account for a few percent of global CO two. At 2989 02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:07,720 Speaker 1: the other end of the distribution, however, adding only one 2990 02:32:07,800 --> 02:32:10,520 Speaker 1: billion high income individuals to the wealthiest parts of the 2991 02:32:10,560 --> 02:32:13,879 Speaker 1: world would increase global emissions by almost a third. A 2992 02:32:13,959 --> 02:32:16,160 Speaker 1: programmer in the United States has a higher c O 2993 02:32:16,240 --> 02:32:19,720 Speaker 1: two footprint than fifty farmers in Uganda. A decent chunk 2994 02:32:19,760 --> 02:32:22,359 Speaker 1: of this is just due to meet consumption. Meet consumption 2995 02:32:22,400 --> 02:32:25,400 Speaker 1: per capita in the richest fifteen countries is seven hundred 2996 02:32:25,400 --> 02:32:28,080 Speaker 1: fifty percent higher than in the poorest twenty four countries. 2997 02:32:28,879 --> 02:32:32,800 Speaker 1: Lowering the population of say Uruguay won't do much for emissions. 2998 02:32:33,120 --> 02:32:35,640 Speaker 1: This is not the case when you talk about wealthy nations. 2999 02:32:35,920 --> 02:32:38,280 Speaker 1: In fact, if you live and say the United States, 3000 02:32:38,440 --> 02:32:41,040 Speaker 1: possibly the biggest thing you as an individual could do 3001 02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:44,199 Speaker 1: to reduce emissions is to have fewer or no children. 3002 02:32:44,720 --> 02:32:48,440 Speaker 1: It's estimated that dedicated recycling curves about point three metric 3003 02:32:48,480 --> 02:32:51,160 Speaker 1: tons of CO two emissions per year, while having one 3004 02:32:51,240 --> 02:32:54,360 Speaker 1: fewer child is equivalent to preventing over fifty eight tons 3005 02:32:54,400 --> 02:32:57,039 Speaker 1: of CO two emissions a year. Better sex, said, and 3006 02:32:57,080 --> 02:33:00,000 Speaker 1: free access to contraceptives could also go a shockingly long 3007 02:33:00,000 --> 02:33:03,640 Speaker 1: long way to curbing individual emission In wealthy countries, these 3008 02:33:03,720 --> 02:33:06,240 Speaker 1: numbers are averaged across a whole nation, and just like 3009 02:33:06,320 --> 02:33:08,920 Speaker 1: the case in less wealthy countries, the impact on emissions 3010 02:33:08,920 --> 02:33:11,120 Speaker 1: by having one fewer kid will be far lesser if 3011 02:33:11,160 --> 02:33:13,000 Speaker 1: your middle class are poor than it would be if 3012 02:33:13,040 --> 02:33:15,920 Speaker 1: your upper middle class are rich. But of course none 3013 02:33:15,959 --> 02:33:18,000 Speaker 1: of that is going to be enough if industrial production 3014 02:33:18,080 --> 02:33:21,320 Speaker 1: keeps chugging along and advising people not to have children, 3015 02:33:21,360 --> 02:33:24,760 Speaker 1: one of the singular driving motivations for human beings across history, 3016 02:33:25,280 --> 02:33:28,720 Speaker 1: isn't exactly a vote getter of a proposition. De growth 3017 02:33:28,800 --> 02:33:30,720 Speaker 1: is critical, but the question of how to get there 3018 02:33:30,800 --> 02:33:33,240 Speaker 1: is thorny as hell. There are a few easy answers. 3019 02:33:33,440 --> 02:33:36,560 Speaker 1: Abolishing planned obsolescence could be pretty easily pitched to the 3020 02:33:36,600 --> 02:33:39,080 Speaker 1: average person. Cutting down on the number of people who 3021 02:33:39,120 --> 02:33:41,400 Speaker 1: have to commute could have a significant impact on toxic 3022 02:33:41,440 --> 02:33:43,920 Speaker 1: car culture, and again you can sell that to people. 3023 02:33:44,400 --> 02:33:47,240 Speaker 1: The obvious solutions are good places to start, but they 3024 02:33:47,240 --> 02:33:50,200 Speaker 1: should be seen as opening incisions, meant to clear the 3025 02:33:50,240 --> 02:33:53,680 Speaker 1: way to make deeper, more expansive cuts, and eventually hw 3026 02:33:53,760 --> 02:33:56,200 Speaker 1: away at the cancer we've planted in the heart of 3027 02:33:56,200 --> 02:34:07,920 Speaker 1: our civilization. After thirty years, it's time to return to 3028 02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:10,320 Speaker 1: the halls of West Beverly High and hang out at 3029 02:34:10,320 --> 02:34:12,800 Speaker 1: the peach pit. On the podcast nine O two one 3030 02:34:12,840 --> 02:34:16,359 Speaker 1: OMG joined Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling for a rewatch 3031 02:34:16,400 --> 02:34:19,080 Speaker 1: of the hit series Beverly Hills nine O two one oh. 3032 02:34:19,120 --> 02:34:22,200 Speaker 1: From the very beginning, we get to tell the fans 3033 02:34:22,400 --> 02:34:25,080 Speaker 1: all of the behind the scenes stories to actually happen, 3034 02:34:25,200 --> 02:34:28,000 Speaker 1: so they know what happened on camera obviously, but we 3035 02:34:28,040 --> 02:34:30,640 Speaker 1: can tell them all the good stuff that happened off camera. 3036 02:34:30,760 --> 02:34:33,560 Speaker 1: Get all the juicy details of every episode that you've 3037 02:34:33,560 --> 02:34:36,280 Speaker 1: been wondering about for decades. As nine O two one oh, 3038 02:34:36,320 --> 02:34:39,560 Speaker 1: super fan and radio host Sissany sits in with Jenny 3039 02:34:39,640 --> 02:34:43,160 Speaker 1: and Tory, two reminisce, reflect and relive each moment, from 3040 02:34:43,160 --> 02:34:46,920 Speaker 1: Brandon and Kelly's first kiss to shouting Donna Martin graduates, 3041 02:34:47,200 --> 02:34:51,080 Speaker 1: you have an amazing memory. You remember everything about the 3042 02:34:51,240 --> 02:34:53,879 Speaker 1: entire ten years that we filmed that show, and you 3043 02:34:54,040 --> 02:34:57,200 Speaker 1: remember absolutely nothing of the ten years that we filmed 3044 02:34:57,560 --> 02:35:00,720 Speaker 1: that show. Listen to nine O two one OMG on 3045 02:35:00,760 --> 02:35:03,440 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 3046 02:35:03,480 --> 02:35:07,039 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. What's Up? Guys have a Shop Aloud 3047 02:35:07,080 --> 02:35:08,760 Speaker 1: and I am Troy Millions and we are the host 3048 02:35:08,800 --> 02:35:11,720 Speaker 1: of the Earnier Leisure podcast where we break down business 3049 02:35:11,760 --> 02:35:14,840 Speaker 1: models and examine the latest trends and finance. We hold 3050 02:35:14,840 --> 02:35:16,840 Speaker 1: court and have exclusive interviews with some of the biggest 3051 02:35:16,879 --> 02:35:19,720 Speaker 1: names of business, sport, and entertainment, from DJ Khaled to 3052 02:35:19,760 --> 02:35:22,200 Speaker 1: Mark Cuban, Rick Ross and Shaquille O'Neil. I mean our 3053 02:35:22,240 --> 02:35:24,920 Speaker 1: alumni list is expansive. Listen to as our guests reveal 3054 02:35:24,959 --> 02:35:27,920 Speaker 1: their business models, hardships and triumphs and their respective fields. 3055 02:35:27,920 --> 02:35:29,879 Speaker 1: The knowledge is in death and the questions are always 3056 02:35:29,920 --> 02:35:32,440 Speaker 1: delivered from your standpoint. We want to know what you 3057 02:35:32,440 --> 02:35:35,240 Speaker 1: want to know. We talked to the legends of business, 3058 02:35:35,280 --> 02:35:37,959 Speaker 1: sports and entertainment about how they got their start and 3059 02:35:38,040 --> 02:35:40,520 Speaker 1: most importantly, how they make their money. Earn your Leisia 3060 02:35:40,640 --> 02:35:43,040 Speaker 1: is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want 3061 02:35:43,040 --> 02:35:45,360 Speaker 1: to learn about the real estate game, unclears, how the 3062 02:35:45,400 --> 02:35:48,080 Speaker 1: stock market works. We got you interested in starting a 3063 02:35:48,080 --> 02:35:50,640 Speaker 1: truck and company or vending machine business. Not really sure 3064 02:35:50,680 --> 02:35:53,720 Speaker 1: about how taxes or credit work. We got it all covered. 3065 02:35:53,800 --> 02:35:56,920 Speaker 1: The Earnier Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnier 3066 02:35:57,000 --> 02:36:00,360 Speaker 1: Leisure on the Black Effect Podcast Network. I hear Radio, Apple, 3067 02:36:00,560 --> 02:36:16,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, it's 3068 02:36:16,680 --> 02:36:20,880 Speaker 1: could It's happened? Could hear Robert Evans the podcast that 3069 02:36:21,080 --> 02:36:24,280 Speaker 1: is now begun. Um This is a show about how 3070 02:36:24,360 --> 02:36:28,000 Speaker 1: things are falling apart and occasionally how to how to 3071 02:36:28,080 --> 02:36:30,160 Speaker 1: maybe deal with that, maybe try to steer things in 3072 02:36:30,200 --> 02:36:32,200 Speaker 1: a better direction. We talked about a bunch of stuff 3073 02:36:32,240 --> 02:36:35,640 Speaker 1: today we're gonna be talking about more supply line um 3074 02:36:35,720 --> 02:36:38,560 Speaker 1: um stuff. And and in order to kind of introduce 3075 02:36:38,680 --> 02:36:42,240 Speaker 1: this episode, we wanted to bring in Alexis, who posted 3076 02:36:42,440 --> 02:36:46,120 Speaker 1: a threat on Twitter about some of their experiences in 3077 02:36:46,160 --> 02:36:47,760 Speaker 1: the industry in which they work that that we all 3078 02:36:47,760 --> 02:36:49,760 Speaker 1: found very interesting and so we just wanted to bring 3079 02:36:49,760 --> 02:36:53,480 Speaker 1: Alexis on and uh and and first off, have you 3080 02:36:53,560 --> 02:36:55,760 Speaker 1: kind of go over what what you went over in 3081 02:36:55,760 --> 02:36:58,600 Speaker 1: that threat and then um kind of zero win and 3082 02:36:58,640 --> 02:37:01,800 Speaker 1: talk about that. So Alexa Is welcome to the show. Hi, 3083 02:37:01,920 --> 02:37:05,560 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Um, yeah, I'm gonna let you 3084 02:37:05,560 --> 02:37:07,400 Speaker 1: take it from here and then we'll we'll drill in 3085 02:37:07,440 --> 02:37:10,040 Speaker 1: once you once you get through your your piece, all right, 3086 02:37:10,120 --> 02:37:11,879 Speaker 1: So I'm just going to go ahead and read the 3087 02:37:11,879 --> 02:37:14,440 Speaker 1: thread that I posted and then yeah, we'll go from there. 3088 02:37:14,920 --> 02:37:18,200 Speaker 1: Uh So, labor shortage, discourse time. I work for a 3089 02:37:18,200 --> 02:37:22,600 Speaker 1: food manufacturing company, specifically bottling and canning various beverages, and 3090 02:37:22,680 --> 02:37:26,800 Speaker 1: we are desperately understaffed. The wages are competitive, but they 3091 02:37:26,840 --> 02:37:30,080 Speaker 1: can't keep anyone on after they hire them. Why because 3092 02:37:30,120 --> 02:37:32,600 Speaker 1: we're short on people. As soon as someone is trained, 3093 02:37:32,640 --> 02:37:35,440 Speaker 1: they start throwing massive amounts of mandatory over time on 3094 02:37:35,480 --> 02:37:37,400 Speaker 1: them to try and cover the missing pieces while they 3095 02:37:37,440 --> 02:37:40,000 Speaker 1: look for more people to hire in. Folks get burned 3096 02:37:40,040 --> 02:37:42,520 Speaker 1: out and quit. And this is where my hate of 3097 02:37:42,560 --> 02:37:46,680 Speaker 1: just in time manufacturing comes in. Obviously, in food manufacturing, 3098 02:37:46,720 --> 02:37:48,640 Speaker 1: you can't just stock a warehouse with stuff and let 3099 02:37:48,640 --> 02:37:50,560 Speaker 1: it sit for a year, But you can keep a 3100 02:37:50,600 --> 02:37:54,039 Speaker 1: couple of weeks worth stock rotating at all times if 3101 02:37:54,080 --> 02:37:57,600 Speaker 1: you devote the warehouse space, employees, et cetera to doing so. 3102 02:37:58,120 --> 02:37:59,720 Speaker 1: This would give you some flex time to train your 3103 02:37:59,720 --> 02:38:01,879 Speaker 1: new people without having to run everyone into the dirt. 3104 02:38:02,720 --> 02:38:05,039 Speaker 1: So even with a place that is offering decent money 3105 02:38:05,040 --> 02:38:07,720 Speaker 1: and benefits, because this is a union shop, we can't 3106 02:38:07,800 --> 02:38:10,440 Speaker 1: keep people because we're making a conscious decision to only 3107 02:38:10,480 --> 02:38:12,520 Speaker 1: ever have one to two days of stock on hand 3108 02:38:12,520 --> 02:38:16,840 Speaker 1: to increase profits. Meanwhile, thanks to lean manufacturing, we don't 3109 02:38:16,879 --> 02:38:19,000 Speaker 1: keep a ton of spare parts for our equipment on hand. 3110 02:38:19,600 --> 02:38:22,640 Speaker 1: Thanks to the supply chain just disruption, We've got packaging 3111 02:38:22,680 --> 02:38:25,160 Speaker 1: equipment that's been waiting on replacement parts for six months, 3112 02:38:25,440 --> 02:38:29,000 Speaker 1: which further fux our productivity doing to downtime, which makes 3113 02:38:29,000 --> 02:38:31,400 Speaker 1: the company's schedule even more overtime to try and make 3114 02:38:31,480 --> 02:38:34,240 Speaker 1: up for the lost cases from equipment downtime, which burns 3115 02:38:34,240 --> 02:38:36,400 Speaker 1: out more employees, which puts us in an even deeper 3116 02:38:36,480 --> 02:38:39,200 Speaker 1: labor hole. I've been warning about just in time being 3117 02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:41,440 Speaker 1: a time bomb in the making for over a decade now. 3118 02:38:41,760 --> 02:38:45,600 Speaker 1: When it works perfectly, you're fine. A single interruption causes 3119 02:38:45,640 --> 02:38:47,959 Speaker 1: cascade effects, and since everyone has been doing the just 3120 02:38:48,080 --> 02:38:51,520 Speaker 1: in time thing, there's zero slack anywhere in the system. 3121 02:38:51,680 --> 02:38:54,080 Speaker 1: Grocery stores don't have any extrasoda in the back they 3122 02:38:54,120 --> 02:38:57,520 Speaker 1: get behind demand builds up. Distribution doesn't have any pallets 3123 02:38:57,520 --> 02:39:00,840 Speaker 1: in the warehouse, ha, what warehouse, so they can't answer 3124 02:39:00,840 --> 02:39:04,039 Speaker 1: the surgeon demand from grocery stores. Manufacturing doesn't have spare 3125 02:39:04,080 --> 02:39:06,960 Speaker 1: parts for aging equipment, so we can't boost production. Spare 3126 02:39:07,000 --> 02:39:09,760 Speaker 1: parts makers don't have stock build up, so on and 3127 02:39:09,800 --> 02:39:12,800 Speaker 1: on it goes. The actual approximate cause of this is 3128 02:39:12,840 --> 02:39:16,640 Speaker 1: deregulation of capitalism that is incentivized quarterly profits and made 3129 02:39:16,640 --> 02:39:18,600 Speaker 1: long term thinking an athema to c e O s. 3130 02:39:18,920 --> 02:39:21,960 Speaker 1: But sure conservatives blame California for not letting old trucks 3131 02:39:21,959 --> 02:39:25,360 Speaker 1: offload at the ports. That's it, and that's that's the 3132 02:39:25,520 --> 02:39:27,720 Speaker 1: essence of my threat. I then plug my podcast at 3133 02:39:27,720 --> 02:39:32,600 Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, so I wanted to I'm curious as 3134 02:39:32,600 --> 02:39:39,279 Speaker 1: to kind of like, uh to what I'm trying to understand, 3135 02:39:39,320 --> 02:39:42,600 Speaker 1: like what the solution is. Like we've talked a bit about, Okay, 3136 02:39:42,640 --> 02:39:46,039 Speaker 1: just in time, manufacturing is is problematic for a lot 3137 02:39:46,040 --> 02:39:49,480 Speaker 1: of reasons. Um, Keeping more like on the shelves is 3138 02:39:49,520 --> 02:39:51,400 Speaker 1: going to allow you to avoid these crunches, and it's 3139 02:39:51,440 --> 02:39:54,240 Speaker 1: going to like make supply line issues like the ones 3140 02:39:54,240 --> 02:39:57,280 Speaker 1: we've experiencing since the start of the COVID pandemic less 3141 02:39:57,280 --> 02:40:00,360 Speaker 1: severe and less common. Um, but how do you actually 3142 02:40:00,520 --> 02:40:02,480 Speaker 1: how do you actually make that happen because I guess 3143 02:40:02,480 --> 02:40:05,240 Speaker 1: the traditional free market thing is that like, well, because 3144 02:40:05,280 --> 02:40:08,120 Speaker 1: this has been such a problem for companies, um, you know, 3145 02:40:08,160 --> 02:40:11,360 Speaker 1: they'll naturally change the system in order to avoid this 3146 02:40:11,400 --> 02:40:16,120 Speaker 1: in the future. I don't feel like that's likely to happen, um, 3147 02:40:16,160 --> 02:40:18,600 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, like, what do we uh what what 3148 02:40:18,760 --> 02:40:21,840 Speaker 1: what do you think is the way forward here? Well, 3149 02:40:21,879 --> 02:40:24,119 Speaker 1: because some of the problem is is right now, like 3150 02:40:24,440 --> 02:40:27,280 Speaker 1: most most companies, you will pay taxes on stuff that 3151 02:40:27,320 --> 02:40:31,320 Speaker 1: you have stored in a warehouse, things like that. Um, 3152 02:40:31,360 --> 02:40:35,000 Speaker 1: So no company is going to voluntarily lower their profit 3153 02:40:35,040 --> 02:40:38,240 Speaker 1: margins if the other companies don't do it themselves as well. 3154 02:40:38,400 --> 02:40:40,960 Speaker 1: So really there's going to have to be some sort 3155 02:40:41,000 --> 02:40:45,680 Speaker 1: of forcing of companies to uh have that on hand. 3156 02:40:46,160 --> 02:40:48,280 Speaker 1: And I don't see just being able to write a 3157 02:40:48,360 --> 02:40:50,879 Speaker 1: law that says, oh, well, you're required to have this 3158 02:40:51,000 --> 02:40:55,160 Speaker 1: much backstock on hand, as as being a functional way 3159 02:40:55,160 --> 02:40:58,440 Speaker 1: to work. And really, as I'm sure you know, Robert, 3160 02:40:58,440 --> 02:41:02,200 Speaker 1: I know you're well aware the capitalism itself is kind 3161 02:41:02,240 --> 02:41:05,959 Speaker 1: of the problem. But as far as I guess, a 3162 02:41:06,160 --> 02:41:10,000 Speaker 1: solution to this sort of thing, um, you would have 3163 02:41:10,160 --> 02:41:14,720 Speaker 1: to disincentivize the quarterly profits above all in order to 3164 02:41:14,760 --> 02:41:19,039 Speaker 1: force companies back into long term thinking. Now, from a 3165 02:41:19,120 --> 02:41:26,039 Speaker 1: purely like mechanical standpoint, UM, I guess if you if 3166 02:41:26,080 --> 02:41:30,680 Speaker 1: you did something to incentivize companies having backstock or flex 3167 02:41:30,720 --> 02:41:35,039 Speaker 1: stock on on hand, that might help. But um, I mean, 3168 02:41:35,160 --> 02:41:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just a cog in the machine getting 3169 02:41:37,400 --> 02:41:40,560 Speaker 1: ground up. So as far as like big solutions, that's 3170 02:41:40,840 --> 02:41:43,440 Speaker 1: I mean. I've been looking at it ever since I 3171 02:41:43,440 --> 02:41:46,080 Speaker 1: worked in a freaking casket factory and we started doing 3172 02:41:46,160 --> 02:41:49,439 Speaker 1: just in time there, And just every time that I've 3173 02:41:49,480 --> 02:41:52,000 Speaker 1: been in a place, a manufacturing place and seen it happen, 3174 02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, this is gonna go wrong because 3175 02:41:54,920 --> 02:41:57,640 Speaker 1: you can't you can do just in time if all 3176 02:41:57,680 --> 02:42:00,680 Speaker 1: of your suppliers are local, but have ving it stretched 3177 02:42:00,680 --> 02:42:04,200 Speaker 1: across the global supply chain, it just it's inevitably going 3178 02:42:04,240 --> 02:42:08,080 Speaker 1: to collapse in on itself. I'm sorry that I'm not 3179 02:42:08,120 --> 02:42:10,800 Speaker 1: more helpful. No, no, but I mean this is this 3180 02:42:10,920 --> 02:42:13,320 Speaker 1: is like the problem because there's a lot of reasons 3181 02:42:13,360 --> 02:42:15,640 Speaker 1: why this supply chain is global. Some of them are 3182 02:42:15,680 --> 02:42:18,160 Speaker 1: like labor related reasons, some of them are cost cunning, 3183 02:42:18,160 --> 02:42:21,760 Speaker 1: some of them are just like pure pragmatism. Um, but 3184 02:42:21,840 --> 02:42:25,240 Speaker 1: it's trying to like I I don't. I feel like 3185 02:42:25,440 --> 02:42:27,120 Speaker 1: it's it's one thing to say, like, well, part of 3186 02:42:27,120 --> 02:42:29,520 Speaker 1: the problem is that like all of these different pieces 3187 02:42:29,520 --> 02:42:32,120 Speaker 1: come from different countries, um. And there's a number of 3188 02:42:32,120 --> 02:42:35,400 Speaker 1: shady reasons for aspects of that UM. But it makes 3189 02:42:35,560 --> 02:42:38,280 Speaker 1: for greater problems when there's a Pilon shortage and then like, Okay, 3190 02:42:38,320 --> 02:42:40,440 Speaker 1: well what are we what are we gonna Are you 3191 02:42:40,480 --> 02:42:43,680 Speaker 1: suggesting that we make everything domestically because I don't feel 3192 02:42:43,720 --> 02:42:48,280 Speaker 1: like that's a realistic solution, um. Yeah, And it's like 3193 02:42:48,320 --> 02:42:50,720 Speaker 1: it's just it's I'm trying to get a handle on 3194 02:42:51,800 --> 02:42:53,760 Speaker 1: There's a couple of angles on this. There's there's what 3195 02:42:53,800 --> 02:42:56,480 Speaker 1: we think is going to happen, um, and then there's 3196 02:42:56,480 --> 02:42:58,280 Speaker 1: the question of, like, is there a way that the 3197 02:42:58,320 --> 02:43:02,240 Speaker 1: system as it exists could make this whole thing less vulnerable? 3198 02:43:02,280 --> 02:43:03,800 Speaker 1: And and a lot of ways that's going to be 3199 02:43:03,920 --> 02:43:05,920 Speaker 1: separate from the question of what would be better for 3200 02:43:05,959 --> 02:43:08,000 Speaker 1: everyone to happen, because a lot of what would be 3201 02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:10,199 Speaker 1: better for everyone to happen is a white A significant 3202 02:43:10,280 --> 02:43:13,040 Speaker 1: chunk of these things that we have constantly stocked on 3203 02:43:13,080 --> 02:43:16,520 Speaker 1: the shelves are no longer parts of our life. Right, Um, 3204 02:43:16,560 --> 02:43:18,039 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that are made that we 3205 02:43:18,120 --> 02:43:20,880 Speaker 1: do not need and that are there's an environmental cost 3206 02:43:20,920 --> 02:43:23,879 Speaker 1: and a show social cost and YadA YadA YadA. Um. 3207 02:43:23,920 --> 02:43:27,680 Speaker 1: But I guess first, I'm kind of curious to drilling in, 3208 02:43:27,720 --> 02:43:30,080 Speaker 1: Like how realistic do you think it is that the 3209 02:43:30,160 --> 02:43:33,320 Speaker 1: system as it exists is going to like mitigate this 3210 02:43:33,400 --> 02:43:35,760 Speaker 1: and come up with better ways to to do this 3211 02:43:35,840 --> 02:43:38,879 Speaker 1: that render us less vulnerable to the supply crunches? Like 3212 02:43:39,040 --> 02:43:42,480 Speaker 1: is there? I don't see a great financial incentive in 3213 02:43:42,520 --> 02:43:44,840 Speaker 1: it for them yet, um, because they don't seem to 3214 02:43:44,840 --> 02:43:48,880 Speaker 1: be hurting, right, Like that's that's the thing. Well actually, 3215 02:43:49,200 --> 02:43:51,400 Speaker 1: and and again, please keep in mind this is limited 3216 02:43:51,400 --> 02:43:54,400 Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence. Yeah, because it's gonna be definitely John Deer, 3217 02:43:54,480 --> 02:43:57,320 Speaker 1: I know, was making record profits before all the this 3218 02:43:57,480 --> 02:44:01,039 Speaker 1: union stuff happened, but like that's not every one, right. 3219 02:44:01,480 --> 02:44:04,720 Speaker 1: So again, I work for a soda manufacturer. So every 3220 02:44:04,760 --> 02:44:09,320 Speaker 1: time you're in you know, enjoying your your Schmetzy Schmola 3221 02:44:09,480 --> 02:44:13,440 Speaker 1: or your or your Schmago whatever whatever, I'm not going 3222 02:44:13,480 --> 02:44:15,640 Speaker 1: to explain which company I work for because I don't 3223 02:44:15,640 --> 02:44:19,199 Speaker 1: want to get in trouble. Um, And we're we're actually 3224 02:44:19,240 --> 02:44:22,519 Speaker 1: a captive bottler, which means that it's a separate company, 3225 02:44:22,560 --> 02:44:26,000 Speaker 1: but we work for the big soda corporation. I think 3226 02:44:26,000 --> 02:44:30,000 Speaker 1: that in certain instances those things will change, because, for example, 3227 02:44:30,120 --> 02:44:33,360 Speaker 1: just last week, we had one of our four lines 3228 02:44:33,400 --> 02:44:37,280 Speaker 1: go down of our production capacity went down because we 3229 02:44:37,360 --> 02:44:40,040 Speaker 1: had a motor burnout on the rollers that would move 3230 02:44:40,080 --> 02:44:42,200 Speaker 1: a full palette out to be picked up by a forklift, 3231 02:44:42,920 --> 02:44:47,520 Speaker 1: and there was no replacement motor in stock, and so 3232 02:44:47,800 --> 02:44:53,000 Speaker 1: we had I think forty eight hours of downtime on this. Now, 3233 02:44:53,600 --> 02:44:56,280 Speaker 1: all the way up at the top the company executives, 3234 02:44:56,320 --> 02:44:58,879 Speaker 1: you know, we're one of thirty some plants, they don't 3235 02:44:58,879 --> 02:45:02,320 Speaker 1: care about why it was down, just that it was down. 3236 02:45:02,440 --> 02:45:06,360 Speaker 1: So in our position here, um, the people a little 3237 02:45:06,400 --> 02:45:09,360 Speaker 1: higher up the food chain than me are insisting like, hey, 3238 02:45:09,720 --> 02:45:11,520 Speaker 1: we've been after you guys for months that we need 3239 02:45:11,600 --> 02:45:14,680 Speaker 1: spares like this. And I think that as that sort 3240 02:45:14,720 --> 02:45:19,360 Speaker 1: of stuff happens, as it cuts into potential future profits, 3241 02:45:19,879 --> 02:45:22,039 Speaker 1: you know, it's not dropping their profits, but it's keeping 3242 02:45:22,040 --> 02:45:25,480 Speaker 1: them from being even higher, maybe certain companies are going 3243 02:45:25,520 --> 02:45:27,720 Speaker 1: to be like, Okay, maybe we do need a couple 3244 02:45:27,760 --> 02:45:30,640 Speaker 1: more spares on the shelves. As far as on the 3245 02:45:30,680 --> 02:45:33,280 Speaker 1: production side of it, I don't see that happening. I 3246 02:45:33,320 --> 02:45:36,000 Speaker 1: think we're still going to be shipping out palettes of 3247 02:45:36,760 --> 02:45:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, palettes of corn syrup infected carbonated water as 3248 02:45:41,520 --> 02:45:44,200 Speaker 1: fast as we can make them. Which you and you 3249 02:45:44,240 --> 02:45:46,640 Speaker 1: were talking about the environmental cost, like you do not 3250 02:45:46,760 --> 02:45:48,800 Speaker 1: want to know how much water it takes to make 3251 02:45:49,040 --> 02:45:52,720 Speaker 1: a single leader of soda. You really don't um but 3252 02:45:54,520 --> 02:45:58,040 Speaker 1: on this on the production like input side, I think 3253 02:45:58,080 --> 02:46:01,039 Speaker 1: that companies are going to start stocking fair parts because 3254 02:46:01,840 --> 02:46:03,879 Speaker 1: it has been and I still have friends who work 3255 02:46:03,920 --> 02:46:06,120 Speaker 1: for other companies that I used to work for. It 3256 02:46:06,200 --> 02:46:09,440 Speaker 1: has been all throughout the system, and I live in 3257 02:46:09,480 --> 02:46:13,120 Speaker 1: the Midwest. Every company is going through this where they're 3258 02:46:13,120 --> 02:46:17,439 Speaker 1: having huge amounts of downtime because the things as small 3259 02:46:17,480 --> 02:46:20,600 Speaker 1: as a gasket or an O ring are not on 3260 02:46:20,680 --> 02:46:23,840 Speaker 1: the shelf, and they're finally companies are finally going to 3261 02:46:23,879 --> 02:46:26,400 Speaker 1: listen to what their maintenance people have been screaming at them, 3262 02:46:26,400 --> 02:46:29,880 Speaker 1: that we can't just stagger along and then oh, well 3263 02:46:29,879 --> 02:46:32,160 Speaker 1: it's next day delivery, yeah, and then you freak out 3264 02:46:32,240 --> 02:46:34,800 Speaker 1: that this line was down for twenty four hours. Now 3265 02:46:34,800 --> 02:46:37,360 Speaker 1: that it's not even next day delivery, it's next week delivery. 3266 02:46:37,400 --> 02:46:39,000 Speaker 1: I think that side of it they're going to probably 3267 02:46:39,000 --> 02:46:43,560 Speaker 1: try and fix. But the other side, shipping to the consumer, 3268 02:46:44,440 --> 02:46:47,720 Speaker 1: I really don't see that they're going to change that. Yeah, 3269 02:46:47,760 --> 02:46:50,840 Speaker 1: I mean that makes that makes sense, And we are 3270 02:46:51,560 --> 02:46:53,760 Speaker 1: you are kind of lad thinking about this inevitably to 3271 02:46:53,840 --> 02:46:57,240 Speaker 1: like two conclusions. One of them is that I have 3272 02:46:57,400 --> 02:47:00,959 Speaker 1: my I'm sure parts of this The system will adapt, 3273 02:47:01,000 --> 02:47:02,960 Speaker 1: as it already has been, in fact, which is why I, 3274 02:47:03,080 --> 02:47:06,240 Speaker 1: like you haven't seen toilet paper run out as bad 3275 02:47:06,280 --> 02:47:08,280 Speaker 1: as it did at the start of the pandemic. Again, right, 3276 02:47:08,320 --> 02:47:10,880 Speaker 1: there is a degree to which the system is capable 3277 02:47:10,879 --> 02:47:14,200 Speaker 1: of adjustment, but kind of in a larger sense, um, 3278 02:47:15,600 --> 02:47:18,840 Speaker 1: this is number one. I'm kind of left with the 3279 02:47:18,879 --> 02:47:21,520 Speaker 1: feeling that because of the way the system was set 3280 02:47:21,600 --> 02:47:24,800 Speaker 1: up and the fact that it was disrupted so severely, 3281 02:47:25,200 --> 02:47:28,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of impossible to get a percent back on track, 3282 02:47:28,280 --> 02:47:31,080 Speaker 1: especially considering the disruptions are going to continue, not just 3283 02:47:31,160 --> 02:47:34,959 Speaker 1: waves of COVID, but you know, in natural disasters and whatnot, 3284 02:47:35,040 --> 02:47:38,760 Speaker 1: shortages of of things like truck drivers, Like these different 3285 02:47:38,760 --> 02:47:40,879 Speaker 1: little hits are going to keep coming, and I just 3286 02:47:40,920 --> 02:47:43,880 Speaker 1: don't know that wherever going to like catch up everywhere 3287 02:47:44,160 --> 02:47:48,200 Speaker 1: enough that like shortages of some sort aren't an aspect 3288 02:47:48,200 --> 02:47:50,039 Speaker 1: of our lives kind of forever. And this is one 3289 02:47:50,080 --> 02:47:51,680 Speaker 1: of those things that if you've spent a lot of 3290 02:47:51,720 --> 02:47:53,720 Speaker 1: time outside of the United States, that's something a lot 3291 02:47:53,720 --> 02:47:55,720 Speaker 1: of people have been dealing with for years. It's just 3292 02:47:55,720 --> 02:47:57,920 Speaker 1: not something Americans are used to dealing with. And I 3293 02:47:57,959 --> 02:48:01,360 Speaker 1: think I kind of feel like it's just where it 3294 02:48:01,480 --> 02:48:04,680 Speaker 1: is now. Like I don't feel like every aspect of 3295 02:48:04,680 --> 02:48:08,000 Speaker 1: our our production and consumption system is going to get 3296 02:48:08,040 --> 02:48:10,520 Speaker 1: back where it to where it was February. I think 3297 02:48:10,520 --> 02:48:14,280 Speaker 1: maybe that's never happening again. No, absolutely, it will not 3298 02:48:14,440 --> 02:48:18,320 Speaker 1: ever happening. You were saying earlier that you know, there's 3299 02:48:18,360 --> 02:48:21,040 Speaker 1: some practical reasons for the global supply chain. Like one 3300 02:48:21,080 --> 02:48:23,360 Speaker 1: of the things that we've had such hard time getting 3301 02:48:23,360 --> 02:48:27,039 Speaker 1: in is any of our concentrates that contain real vanilla. 3302 02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:30,920 Speaker 1: Obviously we can't grow vanilla in the United States. Yeah, 3303 02:48:30,920 --> 02:48:33,000 Speaker 1: that's the thing you have to I mean, that's part 3304 02:48:33,040 --> 02:48:37,000 Speaker 1: of why colonialism exists, right, you need to go get vanilla. Yeah. 3305 02:48:37,320 --> 02:48:40,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, so, like there are certain things that are 3306 02:48:40,240 --> 02:48:43,760 Speaker 1: going to be stay have to stay global if we're 3307 02:48:43,760 --> 02:48:46,240 Speaker 1: going to continue to make the things that we make 3308 02:48:47,000 --> 02:48:50,600 Speaker 1: and just from my side of it, being able to see, oh, well, 3309 02:48:50,600 --> 02:48:53,320 Speaker 1: why can't we get this concentrated in? Oh because it 3310 02:48:53,360 --> 02:48:55,600 Speaker 1: has vanilla as an ingredient, and there's been a bunch 3311 02:48:55,600 --> 02:48:57,920 Speaker 1: of draughts and ship and so vanilla is in a crunch, 3312 02:48:57,959 --> 02:49:01,480 Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing. So I just, um, 3313 02:49:01,600 --> 02:49:04,320 Speaker 1: you're right in that. Yeah, we're going to have shortages. 3314 02:49:04,400 --> 02:49:07,480 Speaker 1: There's it's you know, and it's not just the mechanical 3315 02:49:07,520 --> 02:49:09,720 Speaker 1: side on ours. It's like we can't get cans in, 3316 02:49:09,920 --> 02:49:12,640 Speaker 1: we can't get concentrated in, we can't you know. Whatever 3317 02:49:12,720 --> 02:49:14,480 Speaker 1: it is that we can't get in is going to 3318 02:49:14,520 --> 02:49:17,600 Speaker 1: slow us down, and demand will build up. I did 3319 02:49:17,640 --> 02:49:19,560 Speaker 1: have somebody in that thread respond and say, I don't 3320 02:49:19,560 --> 02:49:22,440 Speaker 1: see how demand for soda will build up. And I'm like, now, 3321 02:49:22,480 --> 02:49:24,879 Speaker 1: I have a friend who's like a diet Dr. Pepper fiend, 3322 02:49:24,920 --> 02:49:26,920 Speaker 1: and as soon as diet Dr. Pepper shows up, now 3323 02:49:26,959 --> 02:49:31,320 Speaker 1: she buys like packs. Demand will absolutely build up for stuff. 3324 02:49:31,320 --> 02:49:35,040 Speaker 1: When people feel like they're being deprived of something, when 3325 02:49:35,080 --> 02:49:37,320 Speaker 1: it becomes available, they're going to hoard it as best 3326 02:49:37,320 --> 02:49:42,400 Speaker 1: they can. Yeah, And that's again with soda, just kind 3327 02:49:42,400 --> 02:49:45,920 Speaker 1: of an annoyance. Although that can because individual people can 3328 02:49:46,000 --> 02:49:50,240 Speaker 1: react in extreme ways, can snowball. I'm not gonna be 3329 02:49:50,320 --> 02:49:52,480 Speaker 1: surprised if one of these days we have somebody shoot 3330 02:49:52,520 --> 02:49:56,280 Speaker 1: up a fucking grocery store because they're whatever was out. Um. 3331 02:49:56,320 --> 02:49:59,200 Speaker 1: But that's also not a necessity, and I think that, 3332 02:49:59,320 --> 02:50:03,520 Speaker 1: like the concern is that, especially when you you look 3333 02:50:03,520 --> 02:50:05,320 Speaker 1: at stuff, like you know, there's a couple of states 3334 02:50:05,320 --> 02:50:07,280 Speaker 1: that had like their wheat harvest and corn harvest that 3335 02:50:07,320 --> 02:50:09,600 Speaker 1: were like half or less than half of normal in 3336 02:50:09,920 --> 02:50:11,959 Speaker 1: big chunks of a rack. It was like down by 3337 02:50:12,000 --> 02:50:16,840 Speaker 1: I think like seventy percent um. Like these massive shortages 3338 02:50:16,959 --> 02:50:21,320 Speaker 1: of growing basic food stuffs, um. And that's all that's 3339 02:50:21,360 --> 02:50:24,119 Speaker 1: all tight into this, Like it's not the same business 3340 02:50:24,120 --> 02:50:26,320 Speaker 1: that you're on, but it's all tied into aspects of this, 3341 02:50:26,400 --> 02:50:28,400 Speaker 1: and it's all tied into like a lot of our 3342 02:50:28,440 --> 02:50:31,080 Speaker 1: ability to get that food out of the field is 3343 02:50:31,120 --> 02:50:35,279 Speaker 1: reliant upon different kinds of mechanical harvesting equipment. The materials 3344 02:50:35,280 --> 02:50:38,040 Speaker 1: to which to like fix and replace it are often 3345 02:50:38,280 --> 02:50:40,400 Speaker 1: like caught up in this whole just in time problem 3346 02:50:40,440 --> 02:50:42,160 Speaker 1: because they don't make enough of them and sometimes they 3347 02:50:42,160 --> 02:50:43,840 Speaker 1: don't have them in stores, and then there's like a 3348 02:50:43,879 --> 02:50:46,560 Speaker 1: strike at John deer, and so more aren't getting made, 3349 02:50:46,560 --> 02:50:48,520 Speaker 1: and so there's not what you need to repair the 3350 02:50:48,560 --> 02:50:51,240 Speaker 1: equipment in time to get stuff out of the field everywhere, 3351 02:50:51,440 --> 02:50:53,080 Speaker 1: and in a year when you already have a reduction 3352 02:50:53,120 --> 02:50:56,160 Speaker 1: of harvests like that cuts down on it further. Um, 3353 02:50:56,280 --> 02:50:58,840 Speaker 1: Like I I think, I don't know, it's it's this. 3354 02:51:00,360 --> 02:51:02,120 Speaker 1: There's always a couple of things to look at, which 3355 02:51:02,160 --> 02:51:03,960 Speaker 1: is like number one, as we've talked about, like how 3356 02:51:04,040 --> 02:51:07,480 Speaker 1: is the system going to try to handle this? What 3357 02:51:07,480 --> 02:51:09,080 Speaker 1: ways are they going to be successful, what ways they're 3358 02:51:09,080 --> 02:51:11,120 Speaker 1: going to fail? What things are you going to have 3359 02:51:11,240 --> 02:51:13,840 Speaker 1: to endure? And what things? I think what I want 3360 02:51:13,879 --> 02:51:15,160 Speaker 1: to talk about next is like what things do we 3361 02:51:15,200 --> 02:51:19,760 Speaker 1: need to change, uh, in order to like as communities 3362 02:51:19,840 --> 02:51:21,960 Speaker 1: be more resilient to this stuff, which you know has 3363 02:51:22,040 --> 02:51:24,440 Speaker 1: less to do with soda, which again is not a necessity, 3364 02:51:24,480 --> 02:51:27,560 Speaker 1: but more to do with figuring out how to anticipate 3365 02:51:27,600 --> 02:51:33,400 Speaker 1: and endure supply line disruptions right absolutely, And and while 3366 02:51:33,440 --> 02:51:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm currently in soda, I have been in everything from 3367 02:51:36,440 --> 02:51:40,920 Speaker 1: automotive too, I think, as or casket manufacturer. So you know, 3368 02:51:41,400 --> 02:51:43,119 Speaker 1: but when I can go through a casket a week, 3369 02:51:43,160 --> 02:51:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, especially when you're driving your Yeah, when I'm 3370 02:51:47,760 --> 02:51:50,760 Speaker 1: drunk driving in a boy right right through a trailer park, 3371 02:51:50,879 --> 02:51:53,000 Speaker 1: I mean you're you're I mean your casket order has 3372 02:51:53,040 --> 02:51:55,039 Speaker 1: got to be through the roof. It is it is 3373 02:51:55,440 --> 02:51:57,880 Speaker 1: a lot a lot of people. Yeah, I mean I 3374 02:51:58,280 --> 02:52:02,600 Speaker 1: do actually wonder how um, I mean like, I do 3375 02:52:02,640 --> 02:52:05,920 Speaker 1: actually wonder how much like the casket industry and something 3376 02:52:05,959 --> 02:52:08,160 Speaker 1: that has been affected by the by like by the 3377 02:52:08,200 --> 02:52:11,560 Speaker 1: pandemic with the you know, an influx of dead people, 3378 02:52:12,080 --> 02:52:14,280 Speaker 1: and how that's how how that's affective. Think that's something 3379 02:52:14,320 --> 02:52:15,920 Speaker 1: I've been wondering about, but I have not actually spent 3380 02:52:16,080 --> 02:52:20,080 Speaker 1: time looking into. I can't speak to the pandemic specifically. 3381 02:52:20,280 --> 02:52:22,959 Speaker 1: I quit. I quit the casket industry in two thousand 3382 02:52:22,959 --> 02:52:26,440 Speaker 1: and eight, but I do recall my boss, the owner 3383 02:52:26,920 --> 02:52:29,480 Speaker 1: at the time, being very very upset that Hurricane Katrina 3384 02:52:29,560 --> 02:52:33,440 Speaker 1: had a lower death toll than he anticipated because she 3385 02:52:33,480 --> 02:52:36,000 Speaker 1: had over ordered the sheet metal to make the caskets, 3386 02:52:36,160 --> 02:52:38,440 Speaker 1: and he was very piste off about adding all that 3387 02:52:38,440 --> 02:52:43,480 Speaker 1: extra stock because they were just society. Yes, so that's 3388 02:52:43,600 --> 02:52:46,400 Speaker 1: that's good to hear. Yeah. Great. He was in a 3389 02:52:46,440 --> 02:52:50,080 Speaker 1: bad mood for like a month after Katrina because it 3390 02:52:50,120 --> 02:52:53,359 Speaker 1: hadn't reached his expectation. Well, sure, that's a real problem 3391 02:52:53,440 --> 02:52:58,360 Speaker 1: for for absolutely he's got that's all the sympathy, critical support. 3392 02:52:58,879 --> 02:53:02,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that job was grim. I'm just gonna say 3393 02:53:02,879 --> 02:53:06,119 Speaker 1: that it sounds like it. I I have a through 3394 02:53:06,160 --> 02:53:09,200 Speaker 1: a through a loved one, a connection to somebody who 3395 02:53:09,600 --> 02:53:12,160 Speaker 1: is like works for a company that makes body bags 3396 02:53:12,600 --> 02:53:19,160 Speaker 1: and was amazing for them. They did incredible in um. 3397 02:53:19,280 --> 02:53:21,520 Speaker 1: I didn't hear any ghoulish stories. It's just like, yeah, 3398 02:53:21,560 --> 02:53:23,720 Speaker 1: of course you guys made a bunch of extra money. Like, 3399 02:53:25,200 --> 02:53:29,320 Speaker 1: sounds like that was great for you, putting it, putting 3400 02:53:29,320 --> 02:53:32,200 Speaker 1: in a mental note to go through a bunch of 3401 02:53:32,200 --> 02:53:34,600 Speaker 1: the campaign contributions of people who make body bags and 3402 02:53:34,680 --> 02:53:37,160 Speaker 1: check if they're supporting anti mess Yes, yeah, see if 3403 02:53:37,160 --> 02:53:40,120 Speaker 1: big corps got into this at all, Yeah, I mean, honestly, 3404 02:53:40,160 --> 02:53:42,040 Speaker 1: the thing that the thing to do is, you know, 3405 02:53:42,080 --> 02:53:44,160 Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of the stock market in general, 3406 02:53:44,240 --> 02:53:46,439 Speaker 1: but next time, the next time that there's a pandemic, 3407 02:53:46,520 --> 02:53:49,400 Speaker 1: find out which companies make body bags on the stock 3408 02:53:49,440 --> 02:53:51,240 Speaker 1: market and invest in those as soon as as soon 3409 02:53:51,240 --> 02:53:53,160 Speaker 1: as the pandemic starts. I mean, I can tell you 3410 02:53:53,200 --> 02:53:55,720 Speaker 1: what I'm I'm putting money into big corps as soon 3411 02:53:55,760 --> 02:53:58,119 Speaker 1: as uh as soon as the next pandemic hits, that's 3412 02:53:58,160 --> 02:54:05,960 Speaker 1: absolutely gonna happen. Y oh boy, all right, yeah that's graam. Yeah, 3413 02:54:06,240 --> 02:54:09,760 Speaker 1: it's fine. There's a reason why after after I started 3414 02:54:09,800 --> 02:54:14,280 Speaker 1: working there, I immediately told my husband, Hey, make sure 3415 02:54:14,320 --> 02:54:18,879 Speaker 1: if I die before you, I'm cremated. So yeah, I 3416 02:54:18,920 --> 02:54:21,000 Speaker 1: don't want to give these monsters any of my mind. 3417 02:54:21,120 --> 02:54:23,360 Speaker 1: What I what I'm looking into is just full full 3418 02:54:23,400 --> 02:54:26,040 Speaker 1: body stuffing that people can pose me around it. But 3419 02:54:26,120 --> 02:54:28,760 Speaker 1: that's a set for topic. Yeah, you talk about that 3420 02:54:28,840 --> 02:54:31,879 Speaker 1: a lot, Garrison. What I did want to mention is like, actually, 3421 02:54:32,200 --> 02:54:34,800 Speaker 1: when you were talking about how they hire in a 3422 02:54:34,800 --> 02:54:37,760 Speaker 1: lot of employees and they make them were horrible hours 3423 02:54:37,800 --> 02:54:39,920 Speaker 1: and then they you know, they quitness is kind of 3424 02:54:39,959 --> 02:54:43,000 Speaker 1: a constant kind of process, and like this isn't exclusive 3425 02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:45,480 Speaker 1: to that industry at all. Think one of the worst 3426 02:54:45,480 --> 02:54:48,959 Speaker 1: offenders of this is actually the Postal Service. UM. I 3427 02:54:49,000 --> 02:54:51,240 Speaker 1: think that the Postal Service has like the lowest employee 3428 02:54:51,240 --> 02:54:55,080 Speaker 1: satisfaction out of any shipping company. Um And like my, my, 3429 02:54:55,080 --> 02:54:56,879 Speaker 1: my fault. I worked for the Postal Service for a bit. 3430 02:54:56,920 --> 02:55:00,160 Speaker 1: And when you first join up, you join as like 3431 02:55:00,480 --> 02:55:03,440 Speaker 1: you join us a on like a non career employee 3432 02:55:03,480 --> 02:55:05,440 Speaker 1: path and then you can get promoted to a career 3433 02:55:05,440 --> 02:55:08,440 Speaker 1: employee path after a few years. But the turnaround for 3434 02:55:08,480 --> 02:55:12,240 Speaker 1: the non career employee paths is massive, Like local branches 3435 02:55:12,280 --> 02:55:15,120 Speaker 1: can stay after like people who start working at the 3436 02:55:15,160 --> 02:55:17,840 Speaker 1: Postal Service will end up quitting within the year. Now 3437 02:55:17,920 --> 02:55:19,840 Speaker 1: that number can be different based on like nationally and 3438 02:55:19,840 --> 02:55:21,560 Speaker 1: for based on like you know, based on what states 3439 02:55:21,560 --> 02:55:24,000 Speaker 1: you're in, but but across the board, it's it's always 3440 02:55:24,080 --> 02:55:29,000 Speaker 1: around at least fifty for employee turnaround for people who 3441 02:55:29,080 --> 02:55:32,199 Speaker 1: join up the Postal Service on these like a city 3442 02:55:32,240 --> 02:55:36,680 Speaker 1: carrier assistant positions. It's fascinating, yeah, because because when when 3443 02:55:36,680 --> 02:55:38,680 Speaker 1: you when you're a non career employee path, you have 3444 02:55:38,720 --> 02:55:40,320 Speaker 1: to work seven days a week and you can be 3445 02:55:40,360 --> 02:55:42,840 Speaker 1: called into work basically any time, usually working around ten 3446 02:55:42,920 --> 02:55:45,360 Speaker 1: to twelve hour days. All of the career employees, all 3447 02:55:45,400 --> 02:55:49,520 Speaker 1: of the sounds like I put you, but like all 3448 02:55:49,600 --> 02:55:52,080 Speaker 1: of all of like all of like the regular carriers 3449 02:55:52,080 --> 02:55:53,800 Speaker 1: get to work like their specific route and that's it. 3450 02:55:54,040 --> 02:55:56,360 Speaker 1: That's their whole day. For the for the people who 3451 02:55:56,400 --> 02:55:58,680 Speaker 1: are new to the job, they're forced to work tons 3452 02:55:58,760 --> 02:56:02,320 Speaker 1: of routes um fill in whenever someone else can't, and 3453 02:56:02,760 --> 02:56:05,560 Speaker 1: we constantly be doing over time um and working like 3454 02:56:05,680 --> 02:56:08,520 Speaker 1: basically NonStop NonStop with only like two like only two 3455 02:56:08,520 --> 02:56:12,000 Speaker 1: holidays off a year or something. It's it's pretty intense, um, 3456 02:56:12,280 --> 02:56:14,760 Speaker 1: which is why you know, when the postal service comes 3457 02:56:15,000 --> 02:56:18,120 Speaker 1: have problems and because and and because there's so few 3458 02:56:18,320 --> 02:56:21,400 Speaker 1: there's generally not tons of employees. I mean like there 3459 02:56:21,520 --> 02:56:23,400 Speaker 1: is lots like comparedively like like like the Postal Service 3460 02:56:23,480 --> 02:56:25,840 Speaker 1: is one of the bigger employers in in the whole country. 3461 02:56:26,120 --> 02:56:29,720 Speaker 1: But for people when when when employees drop off, filling 3462 02:56:29,720 --> 02:56:32,080 Speaker 1: those positions can be really hard in times of like crisis. 3463 02:56:32,200 --> 02:56:33,480 Speaker 1: So like you know, last year, when there's all these 3464 02:56:33,560 --> 02:56:35,720 Speaker 1: problems with the Postal service, all of these kind of 3465 02:56:35,800 --> 02:56:38,760 Speaker 1: issues around the supply chain and how people treat their workers, 3466 02:56:39,000 --> 02:56:41,680 Speaker 1: all of them like like you know, compound to create 3467 02:56:41,840 --> 02:56:44,160 Speaker 1: one like much bigger problem which we saw last year 3468 02:56:44,200 --> 02:56:46,960 Speaker 1: with postal service and like late in like the late summer, UM. 3469 02:56:47,160 --> 02:56:48,600 Speaker 1: So I just find it interesting how it's like, you know, 3470 02:56:48,680 --> 02:56:51,080 Speaker 1: the same issues around like how we treat workers is 3471 02:56:51,680 --> 02:56:53,840 Speaker 1: adding on to this problem of like supply chains and 3472 02:56:53,879 --> 02:56:56,680 Speaker 1: getting stuff delivered and all this kind of stuff. And 3473 02:56:56,959 --> 02:56:59,720 Speaker 1: so what what I find interesting there is, so you're 3474 02:56:59,800 --> 02:57:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, when we're talking about the employee issue, and yeah, 3475 02:57:04,040 --> 02:57:07,360 Speaker 1: it's sure. So I've been Uh, the plant I was 3476 02:57:07,440 --> 02:57:10,240 Speaker 1: working in, which is twenty minutes from my house, closed down, 3477 02:57:10,400 --> 02:57:13,440 Speaker 1: and now I'm working ninety miles away literally an hour 3478 02:57:13,560 --> 02:57:19,640 Speaker 1: and I am i am working four twelves a week, 3479 02:57:19,720 --> 02:57:22,080 Speaker 1: and I'm crashing at my parents house, which they live 3480 02:57:22,120 --> 02:57:25,480 Speaker 1: about sixty miles away. So it's a little bit better, Um, 3481 02:57:25,800 --> 02:57:29,440 Speaker 1: but also suck. Yeah, and my parents are hard right 3482 02:57:29,480 --> 02:57:34,240 Speaker 1: evangelicals who do not agree with you know, so that's fun. 3483 02:57:34,600 --> 02:57:37,560 Speaker 1: But um, the plant that I was in was a 3484 02:57:37,680 --> 02:57:40,000 Speaker 1: non union plant and the one I'm in now is 3485 02:57:40,040 --> 02:57:42,520 Speaker 1: a union plant. And one of the things that I've 3486 02:57:42,560 --> 02:57:46,520 Speaker 1: noticed that's actually kind of different is for once in 3487 02:57:46,680 --> 02:57:50,000 Speaker 1: the non union plant, things were actually better because what 3488 02:57:50,120 --> 02:57:52,000 Speaker 1: we could do what what what could be done is 3489 02:57:52,600 --> 02:57:55,240 Speaker 1: all right, we're all working seven days a week. We 3490 02:57:55,360 --> 02:57:57,720 Speaker 1: have enough staffing that if nobody calls in, we have 3491 02:57:57,920 --> 02:58:00,600 Speaker 1: one spare person who normally goes around and gives breaks 3492 02:58:00,640 --> 02:58:03,320 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Well we could you know, basically 3493 02:58:03,520 --> 02:58:06,600 Speaker 1: all take turns taking a day off during that seven 3494 02:58:06,680 --> 02:58:09,120 Speaker 1: day week. At the union plant that I'm at now, 3495 02:58:09,240 --> 02:58:13,640 Speaker 1: though it's all seniority based, so any time that they 3496 02:58:13,680 --> 02:58:16,080 Speaker 1: force over time, they go from the bottom of the 3497 02:58:16,160 --> 02:58:20,160 Speaker 1: seniority list on up. So the people the people who 3498 02:58:20,200 --> 02:58:23,039 Speaker 1: are being forced into those which I described in the thread, 3499 02:58:23,160 --> 02:58:25,720 Speaker 1: I think it was it was split off in the thread. 3500 02:58:25,800 --> 02:58:29,760 Speaker 1: But the people who were being forced to stay over 3501 02:58:29,879 --> 02:58:32,680 Speaker 1: four hours and then come in four hours early, where 3502 02:58:32,720 --> 02:58:36,000 Speaker 1: you oh, you were working six to two, now you're working, 3503 02:58:36,760 --> 02:58:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, six to six, and then you're coming in 3504 02:58:41,400 --> 02:58:43,960 Speaker 1: at two in the morning instead of six in the 3505 02:58:44,040 --> 02:58:46,560 Speaker 1: morning the next day are always the people who are 3506 02:58:46,600 --> 02:58:50,360 Speaker 1: the lowest on the seniority list, which is something say 3507 02:58:50,400 --> 02:58:52,400 Speaker 1: the same thing with the postal service. Yeah, yeah, I 3508 02:58:52,400 --> 02:58:54,960 Speaker 1: mean it's not there's a number of different I mean 3509 02:58:54,959 --> 02:58:56,920 Speaker 1: I've heard that complaint from a couple of different union 3510 02:58:57,000 --> 02:59:01,080 Speaker 1: gigs um and it's yeah, it's a problem. Yeah, and 3511 02:59:01,280 --> 02:59:03,760 Speaker 1: it's that's why we get these new people and they 3512 02:59:03,800 --> 02:59:06,520 Speaker 1: get trained up and now they're trained and they're signed off, 3513 02:59:07,240 --> 02:59:09,879 Speaker 1: and then they immediately go from because when you're training, 3514 02:59:09,920 --> 02:59:12,360 Speaker 1: you're not you can't train on over time or whatever. 3515 02:59:12,840 --> 02:59:15,840 Speaker 1: But now it's oh, okay, well now you're working every weekend. 3516 02:59:16,000 --> 02:59:19,679 Speaker 1: You're being forced over, you're being forced in early, just NonStop, 3517 02:59:20,360 --> 02:59:23,800 Speaker 1: and so yeah, they get trained for a month and 3518 02:59:23,879 --> 02:59:27,360 Speaker 1: then a month after that they quit because they went 3519 02:59:27,480 --> 02:59:32,560 Speaker 1: from working a relatively sane amount to an absurd amount. 3520 02:59:33,040 --> 02:59:35,760 Speaker 1: We went fifty eight days at one point without a 3521 02:59:35,879 --> 02:59:39,000 Speaker 1: day off, but my dad went like almost I think 3522 02:59:39,040 --> 02:59:41,119 Speaker 1: like three hundred days without with without a day off 3523 02:59:41,160 --> 02:59:43,640 Speaker 1: when he started the Postal Service. A kind of funny 3524 02:59:43,680 --> 02:59:45,800 Speaker 1: thing is like when you hear the Postal Service talking 3525 02:59:45,879 --> 02:59:47,480 Speaker 1: with this, like from the in their own reports and 3526 02:59:47,520 --> 02:59:49,840 Speaker 1: on their own website, what they find a problem with 3527 02:59:50,040 --> 02:59:52,480 Speaker 1: is not not the turnaround in and of itself, but 3528 02:59:52,640 --> 02:59:56,040 Speaker 1: how they're basically wasting money on training for people that 3529 02:59:56,080 --> 02:59:58,160 Speaker 1: don't end up working. It's like that is their main 3530 02:59:58,240 --> 03:00:01,000 Speaker 1: concern is that they're spending all this money on training 3531 03:00:01,320 --> 03:00:04,560 Speaker 1: for people that don't stick around often. Um, And like, yeah, 3532 03:00:04,640 --> 03:00:07,480 Speaker 1: well maybe you should address why they don't stick around often. 3533 03:00:07,840 --> 03:00:11,240 Speaker 1: That's that seems to be kind of the actual issue here. Yeah, 3534 03:00:12,280 --> 03:00:14,240 Speaker 1: And what I've been pushing for, and I know this 3535 03:00:14,360 --> 03:00:16,000 Speaker 1: is more on the labor side than on the on 3536 03:00:16,080 --> 03:00:18,760 Speaker 1: the supply chain side that we were focusing on. I've 3537 03:00:18,840 --> 03:00:22,039 Speaker 1: been pushing for instead of three shifts where we keep 3538 03:00:22,120 --> 03:00:25,039 Speaker 1: just getting just hammered with this stuff. I want us 3539 03:00:25,120 --> 03:00:29,200 Speaker 1: to do four shifts, twelve hour days and do like 3540 03:00:29,280 --> 03:00:31,640 Speaker 1: a two on two off, three on three off type 3541 03:00:31,720 --> 03:00:36,119 Speaker 1: swing shift where you have like one shift that works. 3542 03:00:36,400 --> 03:00:38,560 Speaker 1: You know, you work three days one week, four days 3543 03:00:38,640 --> 03:00:40,560 Speaker 1: the next week, and you work twelve hour days, but 3544 03:00:40,680 --> 03:00:42,800 Speaker 1: really you wind up getting a bunch of days off, 3545 03:00:42,959 --> 03:00:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, like that's if you're gonna work seven days 3546 03:00:45,400 --> 03:00:47,400 Speaker 1: a week, that's the best way to do it in 3547 03:00:47,520 --> 03:00:50,840 Speaker 1: my opinion. I mean, like you know, it's there's a 3548 03:00:50,879 --> 03:00:52,840 Speaker 1: lot of resistance to what will well, then we have 3549 03:00:52,920 --> 03:00:55,400 Speaker 1: to hire these extra people. Will you're hiring those people anyway, 3550 03:00:55,400 --> 03:00:57,760 Speaker 1: and then they're quitting. I mean they're not even getting 3551 03:00:57,800 --> 03:01:00,840 Speaker 1: your value out of them. Slave driver. I mean, like 3552 03:01:01,280 --> 03:01:02,720 Speaker 1: you said, this is more. This is more than labor 3553 03:01:02,800 --> 03:01:05,080 Speaker 1: side than the supply chain side. But honestly, these are 3554 03:01:05,160 --> 03:01:07,480 Speaker 1: these are like the same side, right, because if you 3555 03:01:07,520 --> 03:01:09,400 Speaker 1: don't have employees like this is you know, this is 3556 03:01:09,480 --> 03:01:12,080 Speaker 1: a fundamental you know thing, and like how capitalism works, right, 3557 03:01:12,280 --> 03:01:14,440 Speaker 1: you need to have you know, workers to make there 3558 03:01:14,480 --> 03:01:16,800 Speaker 1: have be any value at all. Right, So if there's 3559 03:01:16,840 --> 03:01:19,400 Speaker 1: if there isn't any people to working, then there is 3560 03:01:19,440 --> 03:01:21,480 Speaker 1: no supply chain, it's gone because if we need people 3561 03:01:21,480 --> 03:01:23,600 Speaker 1: to do it, both on the production side and both 3562 03:01:23,680 --> 03:01:25,800 Speaker 1: in like the transportation side. That's like you know ups 3563 03:01:26,240 --> 03:01:28,640 Speaker 1: um usps, you know FedEx, you know, so like the 3564 03:01:28,879 --> 03:01:30,720 Speaker 1: mail carriers and stuff is very important to all of 3565 03:01:30,800 --> 03:01:33,640 Speaker 1: this because you you you need in order for for 3566 03:01:33,720 --> 03:01:35,040 Speaker 1: there to be a supply chain, there needs to be 3567 03:01:35,120 --> 03:01:37,560 Speaker 1: the chain part right where you carry it from one 3568 03:01:37,560 --> 03:01:40,440 Speaker 1: place to to another. So it's both, it's both on 3569 03:01:40,480 --> 03:01:43,200 Speaker 1: the production side and on the transportation side. For how 3570 03:01:43,520 --> 03:01:46,840 Speaker 1: all these problems, you know? Yeah, and one of them, 3571 03:01:46,920 --> 03:01:49,320 Speaker 1: one of the things that I in the replies to 3572 03:01:49,400 --> 03:01:54,800 Speaker 1: my thread which I got into was that um part 3573 03:01:54,879 --> 03:01:59,160 Speaker 1: of the the only slack in just in time manufacturing 3574 03:02:00,280 --> 03:02:03,760 Speaker 1: the employees. They've pulled all of the slack out of 3575 03:02:03,840 --> 03:02:06,440 Speaker 1: the system on the mechanical side and on the production 3576 03:02:06,520 --> 03:02:08,800 Speaker 1: side of it, on all the physical side. The only 3577 03:02:08,879 --> 03:02:12,400 Speaker 1: slack left is people, and they have stretched us all 3578 03:02:12,560 --> 03:02:17,039 Speaker 1: to the absolute breaking point. Now I'm lucky relatively speaking 3579 03:02:17,080 --> 03:02:20,640 Speaker 1: in that I'm salary, so like I'm more on the 3580 03:02:20,760 --> 03:02:25,160 Speaker 1: inventory side of things, so I'm not doing the hourly production, 3581 03:02:25,240 --> 03:02:26,680 Speaker 1: seven day a week thing, like I said, I work 3582 03:02:26,720 --> 03:02:31,360 Speaker 1: four twelves UM, but I can still you know, and 3583 03:02:31,440 --> 03:02:34,600 Speaker 1: that that's this job. Every other previous job not the 3584 03:02:34,680 --> 03:02:38,240 Speaker 1: same thing, but I can still see where they've taken out. 3585 03:02:38,440 --> 03:02:41,840 Speaker 1: Like once again, we used to have spares on the 3586 03:02:41,879 --> 03:02:44,000 Speaker 1: shelf so that when something broke down we could fix 3587 03:02:44,080 --> 03:02:46,680 Speaker 1: the machine and keep running. Now instead of the spare, 3588 03:02:47,000 --> 03:02:50,560 Speaker 1: the spare is people working weekends. That's the spare part. 3589 03:02:51,280 --> 03:02:54,480 Speaker 1: And that makes total sense, right, You're you're the capitalist. 3590 03:02:56,000 --> 03:02:59,199 Speaker 1: A better spare that is a part on the shelf 3591 03:02:59,360 --> 03:03:01,280 Speaker 1: costs you in terms of like you need to have 3592 03:03:01,400 --> 03:03:03,280 Speaker 1: that space, that's extra rent you're paying. You need to 3593 03:03:03,320 --> 03:03:07,360 Speaker 1: have bought that part. Having your people just killed themselves 3594 03:03:07,480 --> 03:03:11,039 Speaker 1: is much cheaper. You can sort of misuse the marks here, right, 3595 03:03:11,160 --> 03:03:13,600 Speaker 1: Or like one of Mark's things is like, okay, well 3596 03:03:14,040 --> 03:03:15,960 Speaker 1: you know you have you have this increased machinery. You 3597 03:03:16,000 --> 03:03:18,000 Speaker 1: have this increased machinery, but that means you're producing less 3598 03:03:18,080 --> 03:03:20,600 Speaker 1: value because you know, you you put more people out 3599 03:03:20,600 --> 03:03:22,080 Speaker 1: of work. Was like, okay, well what if what if 3600 03:03:22,120 --> 03:03:25,600 Speaker 1: we just we re extend the work day again and 3601 03:03:25,720 --> 03:03:27,720 Speaker 1: sort of you know, reverse all of the gains that 3602 03:03:27,760 --> 03:03:30,520 Speaker 1: have been happening. Well, okay, I say, haven't happening. Reverse 3603 03:03:30,600 --> 03:03:33,240 Speaker 1: all the gains that happened between about nineteen thirty and 3604 03:03:33,320 --> 03:03:35,960 Speaker 1: like nineteen seventy and just oh well, what if we 3605 03:03:36,000 --> 03:03:38,600 Speaker 1: just make everyone for a twelve hour days again? And 3606 03:03:39,080 --> 03:03:40,760 Speaker 1: that that was, you know, one of those The thing 3607 03:03:40,800 --> 03:03:43,080 Speaker 1: that would struck me both listening to this and reading 3608 03:03:43,120 --> 03:03:46,520 Speaker 1: the threat was that it's it's not even just wages. 3609 03:03:46,520 --> 03:03:50,440 Speaker 1: It's just it's it's it's it's just the fundamental power rebalance. 3610 03:03:51,200 --> 03:03:53,160 Speaker 1: And then it's a fundamental power and balance. It's gotten 3611 03:03:53,240 --> 03:03:56,680 Speaker 1: so bad that even like you know, the the like 3612 03:03:56,800 --> 03:03:58,560 Speaker 1: sometimes the remains of the union system, it's like it's 3613 03:03:58,560 --> 03:04:02,160 Speaker 1: not even you know, the the unions like in this 3614 03:04:02,240 --> 03:04:03,840 Speaker 1: picture case like this is they're not even it's not 3615 03:04:03,879 --> 03:04:05,720 Speaker 1: even really helping. It's just creating, like you have a 3616 03:04:05,760 --> 03:04:08,080 Speaker 1: small labor aristocracy that you have everyone else could getting 3617 03:04:08,120 --> 03:04:10,880 Speaker 1: just like ground down. In this case, it's that we've 3618 03:04:10,920 --> 03:04:12,840 Speaker 1: got we've got a small core of people who have 3619 03:04:12,920 --> 03:04:16,600 Speaker 1: been there twenty or thirty years. And and whereas before, 3620 03:04:17,080 --> 03:04:20,280 Speaker 1: maybe even ten years ago, they might have viewed the 3621 03:04:20,360 --> 03:04:23,160 Speaker 1: union as a vehicle to help everybody, things have gotten 3622 03:04:23,280 --> 03:04:26,480 Speaker 1: so bad that now it's just okay, I'm going to 3623 03:04:26,680 --> 03:04:28,840 Speaker 1: use this system as much as I can to cover 3624 03:04:29,000 --> 03:04:32,680 Speaker 1: my own ass because things have gotten so damn bad. 3625 03:04:33,240 --> 03:04:37,520 Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, Reagan destroying the unions and stuff 3626 03:04:37,560 --> 03:04:40,960 Speaker 1: like that help with that. But yeah, it's that I 3627 03:04:41,120 --> 03:04:43,680 Speaker 1: and I feel like the union in my job could 3628 03:04:43,680 --> 03:04:48,320 Speaker 1: be very helpful, um, but it would require certain people 3629 03:04:48,520 --> 03:04:51,640 Speaker 1: in it too, instead of looking out for just their 3630 03:04:51,680 --> 03:04:54,600 Speaker 1: own interest because hey, I've been here twenty five years, 3631 03:04:54,720 --> 03:05:00,680 Speaker 1: so I'm in the clear. Like, actually, go, okay, maybe 3632 03:05:00,760 --> 03:05:03,080 Speaker 1: I should you know, sacrifice a little bit of of 3633 03:05:03,240 --> 03:05:06,560 Speaker 1: that power or that privilege to help the people who 3634 03:05:06,600 --> 03:05:08,840 Speaker 1: are just hiring in so that we can keep them 3635 03:05:08,920 --> 03:05:12,760 Speaker 1: so that that this doesn't have to keep happening. Yeah, 3636 03:05:12,840 --> 03:05:14,640 Speaker 1: And it's you know, this is one of the things 3637 03:05:14,720 --> 03:05:17,600 Speaker 1: that has made the John Dear strike, that made it 3638 03:05:17,680 --> 03:05:20,320 Speaker 1: so powerful, was these those older workers who I mean 3639 03:05:20,440 --> 03:05:22,120 Speaker 1: that they had a tiered system, right, So you have 3640 03:05:22,240 --> 03:05:25,320 Speaker 1: workers hired I think before like ninety seven got a 3641 03:05:25,360 --> 03:05:27,600 Speaker 1: full pension, and then like after ninety seven was like 3642 03:05:27,680 --> 03:05:29,600 Speaker 1: a third of that, and then workers hired in the 3643 03:05:29,680 --> 03:05:31,600 Speaker 1: last couple of years weren't getting any pension at all. 3644 03:05:31,640 --> 03:05:34,119 Speaker 1: And a big part of the strike is like all 3645 03:05:34,200 --> 03:05:36,800 Speaker 1: of the workers saying that's not acceptable, um, including the 3646 03:05:36,879 --> 03:05:38,800 Speaker 1: ones who had a full pension, who had some of 3647 03:05:38,840 --> 03:05:40,600 Speaker 1: a pension, like saying that, like the fact that the 3648 03:05:40,640 --> 03:05:43,200 Speaker 1: newer people are getting screwed over is an acceptable And 3649 03:05:43,240 --> 03:05:46,640 Speaker 1: I've heard different reasons for why that happened, because this 3650 03:05:46,800 --> 03:05:49,000 Speaker 1: is this tactic what you're talking about, and kind of 3651 03:05:49,080 --> 03:05:51,840 Speaker 1: like what happened to John Deer, it was a common tactic. 3652 03:05:51,920 --> 03:05:53,600 Speaker 1: You know, It's the thing we talked about in colonialism 3653 03:05:53,640 --> 03:05:56,640 Speaker 1: all the time. You want to divide the population against 3654 03:05:56,879 --> 03:05:59,039 Speaker 1: you know, it's each other one way or the other. 3655 03:05:59,080 --> 03:06:01,000 Speaker 1: Give them like making make them feel as if their 3656 03:06:01,040 --> 03:06:03,720 Speaker 1: interests are not necessarily aligned, you know, so the people 3657 03:06:03,760 --> 03:06:07,440 Speaker 1: who um. And there's reasons I've heard different reasons for 3658 03:06:07,520 --> 03:06:10,520 Speaker 1: why John Deere was different, including the idea that like 3659 03:06:10,879 --> 03:06:12,800 Speaker 1: a lot of these are family jobs, so it was 3660 03:06:12,840 --> 03:06:15,160 Speaker 1: not people. It was people being like, well, my kid's 3661 03:06:15,240 --> 03:06:18,560 Speaker 1: not gonna get a pension, and that's bullshit. Um anyway, Yeah, 3662 03:06:18,600 --> 03:06:21,720 Speaker 1: I just it's it's it's important to talk about like 3663 03:06:21,959 --> 03:06:25,600 Speaker 1: that as a problem and also to highlight different strikes 3664 03:06:25,640 --> 03:06:27,959 Speaker 1: where that seems to have been overcome by the workers, 3665 03:06:28,040 --> 03:06:30,039 Speaker 1: like this fact that they were attempted to be played 3666 03:06:30,040 --> 03:06:33,520 Speaker 1: against each other didn't really work out, and where in 3667 03:06:33,640 --> 03:06:36,960 Speaker 1: my case it very much is like another another example 3668 03:06:37,040 --> 03:06:40,400 Speaker 1: being so we'll have people who are are lower on 3669 03:06:40,440 --> 03:06:43,480 Speaker 1: the seniority list, and like let's say, for example, one 3670 03:06:43,560 --> 03:06:46,960 Speaker 1: weekend we're running lines three and five and not the 3671 03:06:47,040 --> 03:06:52,920 Speaker 1: other two. The newer people might only know stuff online four. 3672 03:06:53,879 --> 03:06:58,520 Speaker 1: But if the new people don't get scheduled to do something, 3673 03:06:58,680 --> 03:07:00,800 Speaker 1: even if they're just being forced to sweep the floor, 3674 03:07:01,520 --> 03:07:04,160 Speaker 1: the people who have the higher seniority will throw a 3675 03:07:04,240 --> 03:07:06,680 Speaker 1: fit saying, well, they're lower seniority, why aren't they in 3676 03:07:06,800 --> 03:07:09,600 Speaker 1: here as opposed to well, because they can't run that machine, 3677 03:07:10,320 --> 03:07:11,800 Speaker 1: and then they don't want to train them to run 3678 03:07:11,879 --> 03:07:15,640 Speaker 1: that machine. It's it's very they've managed to succeed where 3679 03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:18,960 Speaker 1: the John Deer capitalists might have failed in making this 3680 03:07:19,240 --> 03:07:23,040 Speaker 1: all about like all right working. And I don't blame 3681 03:07:24,120 --> 03:07:26,680 Speaker 1: the people who have the higher seniority on this because 3682 03:07:27,040 --> 03:07:29,200 Speaker 1: if my you know, if if you're working, conditions are 3683 03:07:29,280 --> 03:07:33,200 Speaker 1: hell and you have the option of okay, well, on 3684 03:07:33,280 --> 03:07:36,040 Speaker 1: a short term scale, I can screw over this other 3685 03:07:36,160 --> 03:07:40,240 Speaker 1: person and actually see my family once in a while. 3686 03:07:40,800 --> 03:07:44,600 Speaker 1: Most people are gonna do it, especially if that person 3687 03:07:44,720 --> 03:07:46,600 Speaker 1: is somebody who just hired in that you don't know, 3688 03:07:46,760 --> 03:07:50,879 Speaker 1: we'll scre that guy. And that's where once again, if 3689 03:07:51,080 --> 03:07:53,040 Speaker 1: unions were stronger, if they it was more than what 3690 03:07:53,200 --> 03:07:55,680 Speaker 1: is it right now, like two three of jobs or 3691 03:07:55,720 --> 03:07:59,720 Speaker 1: a union job, but unions have been so like just 3692 03:08:00,080 --> 03:08:03,640 Speaker 1: weakened that this sort of situation is allowed to happen. 3693 03:08:03,680 --> 03:08:07,600 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, and I think, yeah, that 3694 03:08:07,680 --> 03:08:09,720 Speaker 1: comes back to it, like the solute. The solution to 3695 03:08:09,800 --> 03:08:13,920 Speaker 1: the supply chain problem isn't really a solute like it's 3696 03:08:13,959 --> 03:08:16,280 Speaker 1: it's it's not it's not a logistical solution. It's not 3697 03:08:16,400 --> 03:08:18,840 Speaker 1: even really like a capital gain solution, like a tax solution. 3698 03:08:18,879 --> 03:08:22,440 Speaker 1: The solution is that, you know, you have to fundamentally 3699 03:08:22,560 --> 03:08:26,080 Speaker 1: change the balance of power between capital and labor. And 3700 03:08:26,760 --> 03:08:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, I mean that and that and that that 3701 03:08:28,160 --> 03:08:30,240 Speaker 1: can be like you know, I think things will get 3702 03:08:30,320 --> 03:08:33,760 Speaker 1: better if it's if it's more unions, but like things 3703 03:08:33,800 --> 03:08:37,320 Speaker 1: are going to continue to suck until like the capitalists 3704 03:08:37,320 --> 03:08:40,440 Speaker 1: ceased to exist as a class. Yeah, And I think 3705 03:08:40,520 --> 03:08:45,280 Speaker 1: that's like that that's because yeah, that's always the and 3706 03:08:45,400 --> 03:08:47,879 Speaker 1: it's one of those like we get we get critiqued 3707 03:08:47,920 --> 03:08:51,520 Speaker 1: on the internets sometimes because I think people will will say, like, well, 3708 03:08:52,040 --> 03:08:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, is your only solution to this. You keep 3709 03:08:54,080 --> 03:08:56,680 Speaker 1: talking about like mutual aid and anarchism, and like, I 3710 03:08:56,760 --> 03:08:59,960 Speaker 1: just don't feel like that's a big scale solutions. Like yeah, 3711 03:09:00,120 --> 03:09:02,400 Speaker 1: but the current system isn't going to work very well 3712 03:09:02,520 --> 03:09:04,600 Speaker 1: on a big scale. Part of what we're always talking 3713 03:09:04,640 --> 03:09:07,440 Speaker 1: about is like how to how to get your how 3714 03:09:07,480 --> 03:09:10,200 Speaker 1: to get yourself and your people through the situation, because 3715 03:09:10,240 --> 03:09:12,800 Speaker 1: that's also important, and it's the same thing with like 3716 03:09:12,959 --> 03:09:15,920 Speaker 1: a union, right unionizing you and your fellow laborers in 3717 03:09:16,040 --> 03:09:18,960 Speaker 1: your factory, or or making your union more effective and 3718 03:09:19,040 --> 03:09:21,400 Speaker 1: more able to like advocate for everyone. That's not going 3719 03:09:21,480 --> 03:09:23,680 Speaker 1: to fix the bigger problem. That's not going to deal 3720 03:09:23,800 --> 03:09:26,320 Speaker 1: with the the issues that like, that's not going to 3721 03:09:26,560 --> 03:09:29,039 Speaker 1: stop climate change, that's not going to stop supply line 3722 03:09:29,080 --> 03:09:30,840 Speaker 1: crunches in a grand scale, it's not going to stop 3723 03:09:31,120 --> 03:09:33,840 Speaker 1: creeping authoritarianism. But it can make life more bearable for 3724 03:09:33,920 --> 03:09:36,040 Speaker 1: you and the people around you. And that's that's also 3725 03:09:36,160 --> 03:09:41,360 Speaker 1: part of like getting by in a crumbling world. Absolutely, yeah, 3726 03:09:41,879 --> 03:09:47,320 Speaker 1: and yep, it's it requires a bit of more foresight, 3727 03:09:47,959 --> 03:09:50,279 Speaker 1: which I think was one of the other purposes behind 3728 03:09:50,520 --> 03:09:53,080 Speaker 1: working us as many hours as they do, is when 3729 03:09:53,120 --> 03:09:57,560 Speaker 1: you're so fucking tired all the time from working what 3730 03:09:57,680 --> 03:09:59,960 Speaker 1: you're working. You don't have time to stop and say 3731 03:10:00,000 --> 03:10:04,240 Speaker 1: about the larger implications of things. M hm and yeah, 3732 03:10:05,280 --> 03:10:08,560 Speaker 1: and that's part of what they're going for. Yep. Yeah. 3733 03:10:08,920 --> 03:10:11,680 Speaker 1: So I don't know anyone else get anything. Well, I 3734 03:10:11,720 --> 03:10:13,520 Speaker 1: guess just the clear solution of this is that I 3735 03:10:13,600 --> 03:10:15,720 Speaker 1: need to just stuck up on Bang, right. I just 3736 03:10:15,760 --> 03:10:18,920 Speaker 1: need to buy But I can because I love Bang. 3737 03:10:19,040 --> 03:10:24,920 Speaker 1: I I can't stop drinking Bang, I will, are you. 3738 03:10:26,840 --> 03:10:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm scared of how much Bag I drink. I will say. 3739 03:10:30,520 --> 03:10:33,920 Speaker 1: One of one of the wonderful mutual aid solutions is 3740 03:10:34,040 --> 03:10:36,880 Speaker 1: if you're very, very nice to the syrup mixing people, 3741 03:10:37,360 --> 03:10:39,760 Speaker 1: they will be kind to you if you are working 3742 03:10:39,800 --> 03:10:41,560 Speaker 1: a double and they will give you a shot of 3743 03:10:41,600 --> 03:10:47,039 Speaker 1: the energy drink syrup before it's been mixed. God, oh boy, 3744 03:10:47,640 --> 03:10:53,760 Speaker 1: you should You should not have told Garrison that a problem. 3745 03:10:54,720 --> 03:10:57,600 Speaker 1: Garrison's going to quit his job podcasting just to be 3746 03:10:57,680 --> 03:11:01,680 Speaker 1: able to get just gonna drink shooting up Energy Drink 3747 03:11:01,800 --> 03:11:04,080 Speaker 1: here on out. That's all I'm doing with my time. 3748 03:11:04,440 --> 03:11:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm leaving, leaving the call right now, finding the 3749 03:11:07,400 --> 03:11:11,920 Speaker 1: nearest factory, and my second day on the on the 3750 03:11:12,040 --> 03:11:14,520 Speaker 1: job in the soda manufacturing thing, I had a twenty 3751 03:11:14,600 --> 03:11:18,760 Speaker 1: four pack of energy drink explode all over me change 3752 03:11:18,800 --> 03:11:21,360 Speaker 1: of clothes, and that's when I learned that caffeine and 3753 03:11:21,400 --> 03:11:25,920 Speaker 1: touring can soak through your skin. Oh yes, I mean 3754 03:11:26,040 --> 03:11:30,080 Speaker 1: basically seeing sound. Okay, So I I've just been looking 3755 03:11:30,160 --> 03:11:32,640 Speaker 1: up inflatable hot tubs and I feel like if I 3756 03:11:32,680 --> 03:11:35,920 Speaker 1: could order enough pure energy drink syrup in an inflatable 3757 03:11:35,959 --> 03:11:39,199 Speaker 1: hot tub, I could build basically the equivalent of Baron 3758 03:11:39,280 --> 03:11:44,280 Speaker 1: Harconan's rejuvenation bath, but with like pure bang syrup. That 3759 03:11:44,440 --> 03:11:47,120 Speaker 1: is that is That is my plan. Just twelve caffeine 3760 03:11:47,200 --> 03:11:49,560 Speaker 1: and tori. It's just gonna be we're all gonna quit 3761 03:11:49,560 --> 03:11:51,240 Speaker 1: our jobs. We're just gonna have the same amount of money. 3762 03:11:51,400 --> 03:11:55,200 Speaker 1: They get slower over time because we're again spending it 3763 03:11:55,240 --> 03:11:58,199 Speaker 1: all on banks. Obviously, you need you need the inside 3764 03:11:58,320 --> 03:12:00,480 Speaker 1: person to supply you with the sir up. So we'll 3765 03:12:00,520 --> 03:12:02,840 Speaker 1: just have sort of an Ocean's eleven situations where you 3766 03:12:02,840 --> 03:12:05,320 Speaker 1: can guys pull up to the loading dock and with 3767 03:12:05,440 --> 03:12:08,280 Speaker 1: a tanker and I'm just hooking the truck up. You know, 3768 03:12:08,680 --> 03:12:12,000 Speaker 1: it's gonna be like Scarface, but we're selling Pierre syrup, 3769 03:12:12,120 --> 03:12:16,120 Speaker 1: and then Garrison loses his mind and winds up in 3770 03:12:16,160 --> 03:12:19,080 Speaker 1: a machine gun fight in a mansion, and instead of 3771 03:12:19,200 --> 03:12:22,320 Speaker 1: burying his face into a mountain of cocaine, he's instead 3772 03:12:22,360 --> 03:12:26,560 Speaker 1: got just a little He's just sticking his hand into 3773 03:12:26,640 --> 03:12:31,720 Speaker 1: a bowl of syrup to absorb the caffeinated nutrients. When 3774 03:12:31,800 --> 03:12:34,120 Speaker 1: I's when I p it's just gonna be straight syrup. 3775 03:12:34,240 --> 03:12:40,480 Speaker 1: Now that is yeah. Anyway, Well that's the episode where 3776 03:12:41,360 --> 03:12:43,160 Speaker 1: if people want to find you a lot, where can 3777 03:12:43,200 --> 03:12:46,880 Speaker 1: they find you? So I host, along with my husband 3778 03:12:46,920 --> 03:12:50,600 Speaker 1: and our friend Justin, we host a trans comedy and 3779 03:12:50,680 --> 03:12:55,000 Speaker 1: pop culture podcast where we also interview interesting people. Um 3780 03:12:55,320 --> 03:12:58,720 Speaker 1: it's called the Violet Wanderers. So you can find us 3781 03:12:58,760 --> 03:13:02,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter at violet unders or the Violet Wanders dot 3782 03:13:02,440 --> 03:13:05,879 Speaker 1: com or email the Violet Wanders at gmail dot com. 3783 03:13:06,440 --> 03:13:09,920 Speaker 1: And that's basically that's my Twitter handle. And I just 3784 03:13:10,040 --> 03:13:13,160 Speaker 1: slowly got sucked into the Twitter hellscape where yeah that happens. 3785 03:13:13,200 --> 03:13:15,520 Speaker 1: Originally went on just like oh, I'm gonna just promote 3786 03:13:15,560 --> 03:13:17,400 Speaker 1: my show, and then I started responding to people and 3787 03:13:17,520 --> 03:13:20,640 Speaker 1: before you know what, I'm writing twenty tweet rants about 3788 03:13:20,760 --> 03:13:24,240 Speaker 1: just in time on my stupid gay podcast account. I 3789 03:13:24,280 --> 03:13:27,160 Speaker 1: got into Twitter to converse with a young Justice podcast, 3790 03:13:27,480 --> 03:13:29,880 Speaker 1: and that's why I created my Twitter accounts. And here 3791 03:13:29,920 --> 03:13:32,640 Speaker 1: I am now So. I was trying to get a 3792 03:13:32,680 --> 03:13:35,640 Speaker 1: planet Side to Beta Key and I got it. But 3793 03:13:36,120 --> 03:13:40,520 Speaker 1: the consequences were I am now here. Yeah, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, 3794 03:13:40,600 --> 03:13:44,800 Speaker 1: and it's consequences for your You're this, You're such a child. 3795 03:13:45,200 --> 03:13:49,160 Speaker 1: I remember the first Planet Side Betaday, Chris. It was 3796 03:13:49,200 --> 03:13:53,119 Speaker 1: an age and dreamed of. Oh, Chris, and you all 3797 03:13:53,160 --> 03:13:55,560 Speaker 1: are welcome to come on the show anytime. I will. 3798 03:13:55,640 --> 03:13:58,560 Speaker 1: I will bother you to come on my show sometime. Excellent. 3799 03:13:58,640 --> 03:14:04,040 Speaker 1: Yeah a good plugs plugs probably, yeah? Yeah, Like I said, 3800 03:14:05,160 --> 03:14:09,240 Speaker 1: the Violet Wanderers were on Apple, were on Spotify, were 3801 03:14:09,320 --> 03:14:14,120 Speaker 1: on podcast Addict, whatever you know, all your major podcast platforms. Uh. 3802 03:14:14,720 --> 03:14:18,440 Speaker 1: The tagline of the show is made for no one, 3803 03:14:18,680 --> 03:14:22,039 Speaker 1: so um expect a lot of queer humor, a lot 3804 03:14:22,160 --> 03:14:26,000 Speaker 1: of me calling my husband a slut, and us talking 3805 03:14:26,080 --> 03:14:30,280 Speaker 1: about video games, comic books, movies, and then occasionally just 3806 03:14:30,680 --> 03:14:33,720 Speaker 1: randomly interviewing really interesting people who I harassed in the 3807 03:14:33,800 --> 03:14:36,880 Speaker 1: coming on the show, like which Robert, I know you 3808 03:14:36,959 --> 03:14:40,400 Speaker 1: know Daniel Harper from I don't speak Germans. He's been 3809 03:14:40,440 --> 03:14:42,760 Speaker 1: on a few times. Um, we've had him on and 3810 03:14:43,440 --> 03:14:47,480 Speaker 1: had some fun talking about Nazis, which themes kind of 3811 03:14:47,720 --> 03:14:50,320 Speaker 1: you know, counterintuitive, but there's a lot of humor that 3812 03:14:50,360 --> 03:14:52,200 Speaker 1: can be found in Nazis if you know the right 3813 03:14:52,240 --> 03:14:54,880 Speaker 1: places to look. And yeah, I you know what, I 3814 03:14:55,040 --> 03:14:58,800 Speaker 1: just watched a German language movie about Hitler that was 3815 03:14:58,920 --> 03:15:02,000 Speaker 1: made in two thousands, Evan by a Jewish German comedian 3816 03:15:02,080 --> 03:15:05,760 Speaker 1: that includes I've watched a lot of Hitler movies, you know, periodically, 3817 03:15:05,800 --> 03:15:07,760 Speaker 1: I just get on Netflix and Hulu type and Hitler 3818 03:15:07,840 --> 03:15:10,160 Speaker 1: just kind of watch whatever is there. This is the 3819 03:15:10,320 --> 03:15:12,640 Speaker 1: first time I have seen Hitler fucking in a movie. 3820 03:15:13,240 --> 03:15:16,040 Speaker 1: I've never seen anybody who had the courage to do that. 3821 03:15:16,840 --> 03:15:20,119 Speaker 1: He is just yeah, he's it's it's uncoming as one 3822 03:15:20,240 --> 03:15:22,600 Speaker 1: ball just swinging in the land. It is. It is 3823 03:15:22,720 --> 03:15:25,920 Speaker 1: an uncomfortable scene, but not the most uncomfortable scene in 3824 03:15:25,959 --> 03:15:30,920 Speaker 1: that particular movie. Um, it's quite a film, that's asn't say, 3825 03:15:30,920 --> 03:15:33,480 Speaker 1: that's pretty amazing. But yeah, come on, come on sometime 3826 03:15:33,959 --> 03:15:36,560 Speaker 1: we'll play around vin Selmageddon, which is a game that 3827 03:15:36,640 --> 03:15:39,400 Speaker 1: I've created, and uh, you know, if you guys don't 3828 03:15:39,400 --> 03:15:41,840 Speaker 1: want to kill yourselves afterwards, then Hey, you survived the game. 3829 03:15:42,040 --> 03:15:43,560 Speaker 1: As long as I can get some syrup out of 3830 03:15:43,600 --> 03:15:45,959 Speaker 1: the deal, that's that's all I want. I will, I will, 3831 03:15:46,160 --> 03:15:48,160 Speaker 1: I will smuggle you some syrup out and mail it 3832 03:15:48,200 --> 03:15:51,200 Speaker 1: to you. Okay, alright, that's that's gonna do it for 3833 03:15:51,240 --> 03:15:53,280 Speaker 1: all of us here today, that it could happen here 3834 03:15:53,800 --> 03:15:57,680 Speaker 1: until next time. I don't know. Go go read, Go 3835 03:15:57,879 --> 03:16:01,880 Speaker 1: read The Dawn of Everything. It's good, it's worth reading. 3836 03:16:02,360 --> 03:16:16,000 Speaker 1: Check it out. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more 3837 03:16:16,080 --> 03:16:18,720 Speaker 1: episodes every week from now until the heat death of 3838 03:16:18,800 --> 03:16:21,520 Speaker 1: the Universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of 3839 03:16:21,600 --> 03:16:24,480 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 3840 03:16:24,600 --> 03:16:27,080 Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 3841 03:16:27,160 --> 03:16:29,400 Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 3842 03:16:29,520 --> 03:16:32,480 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 3843 03:16:32,520 --> 03:16:35,080 Speaker 1: for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone 3844 03:16:35,120 --> 03:16:40,360 Speaker 1: Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening. We've all 3845 03:16:40,480 --> 03:16:43,400 Speaker 1: felt left out, and for people who moved to this country, 3846 03:16:43,600 --> 03:16:46,840 Speaker 1: that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. 3847 03:16:47,680 --> 03:16:50,879 Speaker 1: Learn how it Belonging begins with Us dot org. Brought 3848 03:16:50,920 --> 03:16:57,560 Speaker 1: to you by the ad Council. Mama what does the 3849 03:16:57,840 --> 03:17:08,160 Speaker 1: chicken say? Draft friendly giraffe draw. You're not gonna get 3850 03:17:08,200 --> 03:17:10,320 Speaker 1: it all right. Just make sure you know the big stuff, 3851 03:17:10,440 --> 03:17:12,440 Speaker 1: like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the 3852 03:17:12,520 --> 03:17:15,480 Speaker 1: right seat for their agent's eyes. Get it right visits 3853 03:17:15,640 --> 03:17:20,280 Speaker 1: and h s a dot gov seat brought to you 3854 03:17:20,360 --> 03:17:23,520 Speaker 1: by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the AD Council. 3855 03:17:25,879 --> 03:17:29,160 Speaker 1: The Gangster Chronicles podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves 3856 03:17:29,200 --> 03:17:33,040 Speaker 1: around the underworld and criminals and entertainers to victims, crime 3857 03:17:33,200 --> 03:17:36,560 Speaker 1: and law enforcement. We cover all facets of the game gains. 3858 03:17:36,640 --> 03:17:40,600 Speaker 1: The Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify pro motilised activities. We just 3859 03:17:40,640 --> 03:17:43,960 Speaker 1: discussed the ramifications and repercussions of these activities because at 3860 03:17:44,000 --> 03:17:46,480 Speaker 1: the wall, if you played gamester games, you are ultimately 3861 03:17:46,560 --> 03:17:50,680 Speaker 1: rewarded with Gangster prizes. Our Heart Radios number one for podcasts, 3862 03:17:50,920 --> 03:17:53,280 Speaker 1: but don't take our award for it. Find against the 3863 03:17:53,360 --> 03:17:56,080 Speaker 1: Chronicles podcast and my Heart Radio app or wherever you 3864 03:17:56,120 --> 03:17:57,039 Speaker 1: get your podcast.