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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume
Speaker 2: heavy Tuesday, Buddy hop ball. If you guys are having
Speaker 2: a great week. Another fantastic game from this OKC Denver
Speaker 2: series that has given us plenty of great basketball here
Speaker 2: in the second round and the Pacers close out the
Speaker 2: Cleveland Cavaliers earlier today. We're gonna be breaking down both
Speaker 2: of those games from the perspective of both teams, and
Speaker 2: then we'll take about ten to fifteen minutes of questions
Speaker 2: at the tail end of the show. When we are
Speaker 2: done here tonight, we'll be heading over to playback again
Speaker 2: that's playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight, or we'll be
Speaker 2: taking questions, taking callers, hanging out watching some film, just
Speaker 2: having some fun talking hoops for an extra forty five
Speaker 2: minutes to an hour or so after we finish here
Speaker 2: live on YouTube, you guys know the Joe before we
Speaker 2: get started, to subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels.
Speaker 2: You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me
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Speaker 2: podcast and our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if
Speaker 2: we leave a rating inter review on that front. Jackson's
Speaker 2: doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 2: Make sure you guys follow us there. In the last
Speaker 2: but not least, keep dropping mail back questions in the
Speaker 2: chat so we can get to them in our questions
Speaker 2: at the tail end of the show. All right, let's
Speaker 2: talk some basketball. So you know, there's been a pretty
Speaker 2: consistent theme over the last couple of games. The thunder
Speaker 2: Stars have actually struggled to create quality shots for the
Speaker 2: most part over the course of the last two games,
Speaker 2: but in both games they've been able to make plays late.
Speaker 2: Those of you guys who hung out with us on
Speaker 2: playback on Sunday night or Sunday afternoon, we went over
Speaker 2: some of that footage and you'll see that a couple
Speaker 2: of big driving buckets from Shay and from JDub, a
Speaker 2: big right shoulder fade from Shay out of that five
Speaker 2: second call they forced on the baseline. And so even
Speaker 2: though those guys struggled in large part, they were able
Speaker 2: to make big plays late to put the game away. Similarly, tonight,
Speaker 2: same sort of thing. JDub and Shay both struggling throughout
Speaker 2: the game. JDub hits a huge three on a kickout
Speaker 2: off of a double team kind of like swing swing
Speaker 2: sequence where he gets a wide open three on the
Speaker 2: left wing. He had just airmailed one from the right
Speaker 2: wing a few possessions earlier, and just confidently steps in
Speaker 2: and knocks down the big one late Shay, that huge
Speaker 2: driving spin move bucket, the and one on Jamal Murray
Speaker 2: around the left elbow, the step back three over Christian Brown,
Speaker 2: and the left wing, the driving lob Isaiah Hartenstein. The
Speaker 2: plays were made late to put the game away. But
Speaker 2: the question is, how is it that they were in
Speaker 2: a position with their stars not playing very well to
Speaker 2: win a game like that down the stretch against a
Speaker 2: Denver Nuggets offense that is one of the greatest offenses
Speaker 2: that we've seen in recent NBA history. I was going
Speaker 2: over with Jackson the numbers from the series. The Nuggets
Speaker 2: only get one hundred and five points tonight, despite the
Speaker 2: fact that Jokic goes for forty four, that they get
Speaker 2: sixty two out of Jokich and Murray in the game.
Speaker 2: The Nuggets only got eighty seven in Game four. They
Speaker 2: only got one hundred and four in Game three. They
Speaker 2: only got one hundred and six in Game two. Since
Speaker 2: that Game one explosion where they went for one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty one points, they haven't been able to have
Speaker 2: any sort of sustained offensive success. And that's because the
Speaker 2: real star of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their defense.
Speaker 2: Their defense keeps them in these games long enough for
Speaker 2: their younger stars to work through their lumps and to
Speaker 2: find the ability to make a few plays late. It
Speaker 2: buys them all of this margin for air. And even
Speaker 2: though they lost control of Yokic tonight, they've had a
Speaker 2: great deal of success with him in this series by
Speaker 2: overplaying his right hand with Isaiah Hartenstein, which is forcing
Speaker 2: Jokic into some really difficult finishing positions where he's missing
Speaker 2: shots that he usually makes. You know, they're posting chet
Speaker 2: on the backside to help. Anytime Jokic goes towards the rim,
Speaker 2: they're doubling him on the baseline side. Every single time
Speaker 2: he tries to post up, He's They've had extended success
Speaker 2: against Denver's defense against Denver's offense, and in tonight's game,
Speaker 2: even though Jokic had it going, they got control of
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray late and no one else on the roster
Speaker 2: was able to do any sort of substantial damage to
Speaker 2: them in this game. Their defense, through the incessant pressure
Speaker 2: and wearing you down and getting you to miss shots
Speaker 2: like Michael Porter Junior is oh for fourteen from three
Speaker 2: in the last three games. You want to know why
Speaker 2: he's oh for fourteen from three in the last three games.
Speaker 2: It's because his legs are cooked. His legs are cooked
Speaker 2: from contending with this team. Yes, the shoulder injury plays
Speaker 2: a role, but his right hand he can follow through
Speaker 2: and shoot this shot. He can't even get it over
Speaker 2: the front of the rim. As his last two threes
Speaker 2: were pitifully short. Most of them have been pitifully short.
Speaker 2: They're wearing them down. Jamal Murray misses another wide open
Speaker 2: three out of the right corner late in the game.
Speaker 2: There is a cumulative physical wear and tear factor, and
Speaker 2: they've been able to walk Denver down. At the tail
Speaker 2: end of these games. Denver was up to to one
Speaker 2: in the series, led by eight in the fourth quarter
Speaker 2: of Game four, led by nine in the fourth quarter
Speaker 2: of Game five. In Oklahoma City is up three to
Speaker 2: two in this series, and it's because their defense has
Speaker 2: managed to keep things close and because their stars have
Speaker 2: been able to make plays late in the game, even
Speaker 2: though they've struggled in the meat and potatoes of the game. Obviously,
Speaker 2: a huge part in this was lou Dart lou Dort,
Speaker 2: excuse me, kind of getting out of his shooting slump
Speaker 2: in a big way in that fourth quarter. Nicole Jokic
Speaker 2: has basically been conceding shots to him whenever he can,
Speaker 2: and to Dort's credit, he just kept taking them to
Speaker 2: the point where I'm sure there were some Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: fans while he was taking them that weren't necessarily thrilled
Speaker 2: with the shots, but they went in. He had his moment,
Speaker 2: ran back to the to the bench screaming that I'm back,
Speaker 2: and he is because he needed every They needed every
Speaker 2: single one of those buckets. That's what he raced that
Speaker 2: lead that forced it into a crunch time shot making contest,
Speaker 2: and Jokic was there. Jokicic went blow for blow with them,
Speaker 2: hit one of those absurd, somber shuffle shots at the
Speaker 2: top of the key. That was one of the crazier
Speaker 2: shots I've seen Yokic hit in his career, especially when
Speaker 2: you factor in time in place I've seen him or
Speaker 2: time in score, I should say I've seen him hit
Speaker 2: that shot before, but like usually, like just at the
Speaker 2: end of the quarter, at the end of the shot clock.
Speaker 2: For him to tie the game with less than two
Speaker 2: minutes left with one of those against a great contest
Speaker 2: at the top of the key. You overcame a incredible
Speaker 2: Yokic performance that was every bit as good as the
Speaker 2: one that we saw in Game one of this series.
Speaker 2: And now the thunder up three too, And you know
Speaker 2: what happens next is gonna be interesting. Because I talked
Speaker 2: after Game four, like I thought Denver blew their chance
Speaker 2: to win the series. Their offense was in such a
Speaker 2: they were so down in the mud that I didn't
Speaker 2: see anything that they had going for them that would
Speaker 2: manifest in the ability to win on the road in
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City, which would make it very difficult for them
Speaker 2: to win this series. Right, Well, there's some encouraging stuff
Speaker 2: out of that. So in a weird way, I came
Speaker 2: out of Game four thinking this series is over, Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City's gonna get it. Now, I still feel like Denver's
Speaker 2: got a legitimate chance. Jokic has regained his mojo after
Speaker 2: three straight awful games by his standards, and has gotten
Speaker 2: back to having the touch on the three point shot,
Speaker 2: having the touch on the short range shot, making having
Speaker 2: the kind of just like aura and presence that he
Speaker 2: brings down the stretch of these games. That is back.
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray had his highest volume scoring game of the series,
Speaker 2: although not necessarily the most efficient one. He took twenty
Speaker 2: seven shots tonight, but Jamal Murray started to get some
Speaker 2: things going. There are some things that Denver has going
Speaker 2: in terms of their two man game now that gives
Speaker 2: them a puncher's chance. I think they have a legitimate
Speaker 2: chance to go home and win Game six. And then
Speaker 2: after what we've seen tonight, we would all be foolish
Speaker 2: to count out NICOLEA Jokicic in a Game seven on
Speaker 2: the road in Oklahoma City. That said, I picked Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City in seven before the series. This series is kind
Speaker 2: of manifested with some of those things in terms of
Speaker 2: the way Denver has been able to bog down Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City's defense or offense excuse me, and Jokich has been
Speaker 2: able to make plays late in games to steal games.
Speaker 2: But I still think Oklahoma City is gonna end up
Speaker 2: closing this thing out in seven is my best guess
Speaker 2: at this point in time.
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Speaker 2: All right, we're going to talk a little Pacers Caps,
Speaker 2: and then we'll get into our mailbag for a little
Speaker 2: bit before we get out of here and head over
Speaker 2: to playback. So, Pacers Caps. The Cavs jumped up to
Speaker 2: a nineteen point lead early in the second quarter. Donovan
Speaker 2: Mitchell and Evan Mobley combined for twenty three points in
Speaker 2: the first quarter. They defended well, it looks kind of
Speaker 2: similar to what happening Game four, where the home team
Speaker 2: is just kind of taking control immediately out the gates.
Speaker 2: I was complaining to Jackson because I hate playoff series
Speaker 2: where the teams just trade off blowouts. It's like somebody
Speaker 2: just take a stand and try to win a game
Speaker 2: after taking a little bit of a run early. And
Speaker 2: that was what the Pacers did, because if you guys
Speaker 2: remember in Game four, the Pacers slammed the door shut
Speaker 2: with a seventeen to oher run right before the half
Speaker 2: that put the game completely out of reach, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the Calves were in no position to
Speaker 2: even amount even the asseemblance of a comeback. I mean,
Speaker 2: they outscored the Pacers by twenty one in the second
Speaker 2: half and still lost by twenty right, but the Calves
Speaker 2: were unable to make a similar type of run tonight.
Speaker 2: In fact, the Pacers made a big second quarter run
Speaker 2: that regained a presence in the game that they then
Speaker 2: rode to a big lead in the second half. Every
Speaker 2: time the Calves made a run, Tyre's Halliburton had a response.
Speaker 2: He's the guy who ignited the run right before the
Speaker 2: half that brought the game back within reach. He hit
Speaker 2: an assortment of pull up threes versus different pick and
Speaker 2: roll coverages. He hit one over Jared Allen in a switch,
Speaker 2: he hit one over Jared Allen and a dropped coverage
Speaker 2: from way out damn near by. The logo just got
Speaker 2: a heater. They're shooting the ball. That brought them back
Speaker 2: into the game. And then the Cavs did end up
Speaker 2: making another run in the fourth quarter that cut the
Speaker 2: lead down to one off of a couple of back
Speaker 2: to back threes from Donovan Mitchell and Tyres Haliburton slammed
Speaker 2: the door shot on that too. He ran a simple
Speaker 2: pick and pop off of a big offensive rebound for
Speaker 2: Miles Turner and hit Andrew Nemhard on the left wing,
Speaker 2: who had a three. Ty Jerome goes down and decides
Speaker 2: it's his time, even though it hasn't been his time
Speaker 2: in that entire series, so I'm not sure what he
Speaker 2: was thinking, but ran in there and tried to take
Speaker 2: some floater and Tyres Haliburton just beautiful rear view contests,
Speaker 2: swatted it from behind, got the rebound, went down the
Speaker 2: other way and got an end one and basically ended
Speaker 2: the series and ended the Cleveland Cavaliers season. Now here's
Speaker 2: the thing, Tyree's He may not have had the statistical
Speaker 2: impact in this series that Donovan Mitchell had, but I
Speaker 2: thought he dominated every pivotal stretch of the series. He
Speaker 2: goes for twenty two points and thirteen and a wire
Speaker 2: to wire pacers just kind of like just demonstrate to
Speaker 2: everybody what makes them so good in Game one. Then
Speaker 2: he hits the game winner and two driving layups in
Speaker 2: crunch time of Game two. Then he goes for thirty one,
Speaker 2: six and eight Tonight dominates every pivotal stretch of this
Speaker 2: close out game five. Aliburn's just having a very special
Speaker 2: playoff run, and I'm really really excited to see what
Speaker 2: it looks like in that next round. I want to
Speaker 2: shout out a couple other pacers before we look forward.
Speaker 2: Miles Turner, I thought he whooped Jared Allen's ass in
Speaker 2: this series on both ends of the floor. Scored in
Speaker 2: double figures. Every game caused all sorts of problems for
Speaker 2: him on the roll where he was missing some shots
Speaker 2: that he usually makes killed him on the glass. Had
Speaker 2: that critical offensive rebound again tonight after that miss, Jared
Speaker 2: Allen boxes him out to one point. Game calves, get
Speaker 2: a rebound and go down and score. We might be
Speaker 2: heading to Indiana for a game six, but he just
Speaker 2: throws Jared Allen out of the way like a rag doll,
Speaker 2: gets the offensive rebound swing swing. Next thing you know,
Speaker 2: it's that Tyres Alibert Andrew nemhard two band game that
Speaker 2: ends in the three that puts him back up by four.
Speaker 2: His play finishing the picking pop threes, the short roll,
Speaker 2: jump shots around the elbow, beating switches. In this postseason run,
Speaker 2: he's shot out of the post on seventeen different possessions
Speaker 2: and he's scored nineteen points as a shooter. So he's
Speaker 2: routinely been a high value option for them. Every single
Speaker 2: time he catches a guard and a switch in ball screens.
Speaker 2: He's been excellent. Siakam was consistently good in the series,
Speaker 2: but put up his two biggest scoring games to close
Speaker 2: the deal. Andrew Aaroni Smith could make a three tonight,
Speaker 2: but he had a lot of really high level scoring
Speaker 2: moves in the mid range. Andrew nemhard again doing the
Speaker 2: job on both ends of the floor, hitting that huge
Speaker 2: shot late. They're just the Pacers are just hitting their
Speaker 2: peak on both ends of the floor at the perfect time.
Speaker 2: I thought their defense was excellent again tonight. They held
Speaker 2: the Cavs to seventy four points over the final three
Speaker 2: quarters of this game. Even Halliburton I thought was good
Speaker 2: on defense, getting deflections in his head and recovers with
Speaker 2: high hands. The rear view contest on Ty Jerome was
Speaker 2: a huge play late. Like he's active, he's competing, He's
Speaker 2: got a shortcomings. He can get out of position. Obviously
Speaker 2: he's a smaller slender player on ball, but like he
Speaker 2: just competes and does his job on defense. And so
Speaker 2: as I look forward to the Knick series, like, I
Speaker 2: think this is a very different matchup for the Knicks
Speaker 2: than the Celtics, and I want to I want to
Speaker 2: make a similar example to what I use. If you
Speaker 2: guys remember after the Lakers Timberwolve series. One of the
Speaker 2: things that the Lakers did in the Timberwolve series is
Speaker 2: because of their play style with Luka Doncic, they're basically
Speaker 2: just picking on switches and running a lot of high
Speaker 2: iso right and so as a result, it challenges your
Speaker 2: individual defenders, particularly your weaker individual defenders, but it is
Speaker 2: not so much a mental challenge. It's not a lot
Speaker 2: of ball in player movement. There's not a lot of
Speaker 2: like pace and blender to what they're doing. And then
Speaker 2: you go into the Minnesota matchup, or you go into
Speaker 2: the Golden State matchup with Minnesota, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: it's like in game one, you could just see it's
Speaker 2: like Steph's getting clean looks right away, they're losing Buddy
Speaker 2: healed and screening actions. So all of a sudden, there's
Speaker 2: just this blender of ball in player movement, and without
Speaker 2: Steph Curry, they were holding second half leads in the
Speaker 2: games in Golden State, although the talent differential ended up
Speaker 2: being too much for them to overcome. But there's a
Speaker 2: similar dynamic at play as we head into this next
Speaker 2: matchup for the Knicks, in the sense that as the
Speaker 2: Knicks deployed a game plan centered around switching with their
Speaker 2: five and switching with Jalen Brunson, which I agreed with
Speaker 2: was their best game plan for the Celtics in particular,
Speaker 2: the Celtics fell into the trap. The purpose of that
Speaker 2: game plan is not just to gift Boston favorable matchups.
Speaker 2: The purpose of that game plan was to stagnate Boston,
Speaker 2: to force them into a bunch of isolation attack while you,
Speaker 2: on the other end, have everybody involved, and it can
Speaker 2: just lead to kind of a rhythm differential between the
Speaker 2: two offenses. And we saw that manifest as the Nicks
Speaker 2: pulled away last night. Here's the thing with the Pacers.
Speaker 2: You can try switching if you want. They're not going
Speaker 2: to stagnate. They attack switching with speed and ball in
Speaker 2: player movement. They will still throw the ball to Siakam
Speaker 2: on the block. They still will throw the ball to
Speaker 2: Turner on the block, but they will get the ball
Speaker 2: moving quickly throughout the possession and force you to make
Speaker 2: mistakes early in the clock, and then they'll go down
Speaker 2: to a deep post up and they'll attack it at
Speaker 2: the front of the rim. That's the big difference between
Speaker 2: what Siakam and Turner do to your guards and what
Speaker 2: Boston does. Boston isolates and faces up from twenty three
Speaker 2: feet and might work you down to the elbow, but
Speaker 2: they're not trying to back you down into these like
Speaker 2: right at the front of the rim type of post ups.
Speaker 2: Very often the pace they'll move the ball around and
Speaker 2: when they get the favorable switch, they don't pitch the
Speaker 2: ball to Siakam at the top of the key. Siakam
Speaker 2: seals that dude on the block and they throw it
Speaker 2: down and he's just turning over his left shoulder for
Speaker 2: easy shit right off the glass. That's what Miles Turner's
Speaker 2: doing too. They beat switches right at the front of
Speaker 2: the rim, and they can beat switching with their ball
Speaker 2: and player movement. That doesn't matter what your half court
Speaker 2: scheme is. If they're going to push the ball up
Speaker 2: the floor, with pace and get into action early and
Speaker 2: get you into rotation before you're ever set to begin
Speaker 2: the possession. This Pacers team is a fundamentally different offensive
Speaker 2: challenge than what the Boston Celtics do. We all know
Speaker 2: what the Celtics can do when they get going with
Speaker 2: their driving kick. There's a certain level of talent that
Speaker 2: they have in their three point shooting all over the floor.
Speaker 2: The Pacers bring that too, but they never stagnate. That's
Speaker 2: the big difference. And all I could think about last
Speaker 2: night after the Knicks one and everyone celebrating the Knicks
Speaker 2: is I'm just worried about a guy like Carl Anthony
Speaker 2: Towns just being put into a million actions at the
Speaker 2: top of the key, and not like being asked to
Speaker 2: just guard Tyre's Halliburton and switches in space, but rather
Speaker 2: Tyre's Haliburton getting there and then just driving right by
Speaker 2: Carl Anthony Towns and swing and pass past pass and
Speaker 2: driving kick and another wide open three. Like there's a
Speaker 2: pace and it flow to what the Pacers do that
Speaker 2: never runs out of steam. You want to know why
Speaker 2: they come back again tonight after going down by nineteen
Speaker 2: in the early second quarter, because it never stops. The
Speaker 2: ball pressure never stops. The pace never stops. The relentless
Speaker 2: hunting of advantages never stops, the relentless hunting of mismatches
Speaker 2: never stops. They just keep coming at you. And so
Speaker 2: I don't think there's like a game plan trick to
Speaker 2: slowing down the pacers other than you just have to
Speaker 2: be super attentive and you've got to try to keep
Speaker 2: the ball in front of you, and you've got to
Speaker 2: close out the shooters. So many of these Caves players
Speaker 2: are not as slow as you'd think. There's a couple guys,
Speaker 2: like I thought DeAndre Hunter in particular, looked stuck in
Speaker 2: the mud often throughout the series. But most of it
Speaker 2: is just simple decision making from Cleveland, like your natural
Speaker 2: tendency to sink into the elbow in an off ball
Speaker 2: situation while not being attentive. And it's just a quick
Speaker 2: swing pass, and there's Aaron E. Smith going right past
Speaker 2: you to the front of the rim, or running right
Speaker 2: past you for an offensive rebound or obi topping you
Speaker 2: want you turn your head for a second, he's cutting
Speaker 2: along that baseline. And so it's like I, like I said,
Speaker 2: for the U, this like the Timberwolves matchup. I thought
Speaker 2: that the Celtics series was a test of Jalen Brunson
Speaker 2: in Karl Anthony Town's individual defensive talent on An Island,
Speaker 2: and Kat was able to get some stops against Tatum
Speaker 2: late in Game four. Brunson was able to get stops
Speaker 2: Layton Game one against Tatum, Layight in Game two against
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown, in the post against Horford at various points
Speaker 2: in time. This is gonna be more of a mental challenge.
Speaker 2: The idea of contending with the Pacers and their flow
Speaker 2: is going to be a test up here for your
Speaker 2: ability to pay attention. And I think that's gonna be
Speaker 2: a super fascinating series. Obviously, the Celtics series isn't isn't
Speaker 2: even over yet, but with the news with Jason Tatum's
Speaker 2: achilles tear, I would just be stunned if Boston won
Speaker 2: three in a row against the Knicks. So I do
Speaker 2: think we're gonna end up getting Nicks Pacers in that
Speaker 2: third round series. On the Cavs front, you know, it
Speaker 2: feels like it's very difficult for me to get a
Speaker 2: good feel for just how big their issues are. There
Speaker 2: are obvious issues that you can't just explain away with injuries.
Speaker 2: Jared Allen got his ass kicked, and that's unfortunate because
Speaker 2: he got his ass kicked by Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah
Speaker 2: Hartenstein a couple years ago. Like, there is a couple
Speaker 2: of examples of Jared Allen being a very good regular
Speaker 2: season center who runs into these settings and suddenly is
Speaker 2: not as impactful, not as physical as he needs to be.
Speaker 2: His advantages running the floor in transition go away because
Speaker 2: everyone's running. DeAndre Hunter, I thought, had a brutal series
Speaker 2: on both ends of the floor. He was one of
Speaker 2: their biggest defensive problems. Ty Jerome struggles. Those aren't associated
Speaker 2: with injury. He just got his ass handed to him
Speaker 2: in the series on both ends of the floor. Next
Speaker 2: Strus goes for zero points in an elimination game. Too
Speaker 2: many calves didn't play well. So there's a certain amount
Speaker 2: of this that is not explainable by injuries. But Darius Garland,
Speaker 2: I want to kind of like remind you guys of
Speaker 2: what I said when we were talking about Julius Randall.
Speaker 2: Rhythm is a fickle thing, especially for certain players. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant can have another ankle injury that keeps him
Speaker 2: out for five weeks and he can just walk on
Speaker 2: to an NBA court and score twenty seven points on
Speaker 2: thirteen shots. He's Kevin Durant. He's the exception. Take him
Speaker 2: and remove him from the discussion. It's it's just it's
Speaker 2: entirely irrelevant to the majority of basketball players in the world.
Speaker 2: For the most, for most basketball players, if you spend
Speaker 2: any sort of extended time away from the game, it
Speaker 2: takes a long time to get that rhythm back. There's
Speaker 2: a conditioning element, there's a leg strength element, there's kind
Speaker 2: of like a flow element. Like those of you guys
Speaker 2: who play will understand you on vacation and you come
Speaker 2: back and play pick up or you play in your
Speaker 2: men's league, Like the handle goes away, the jump shot
Speaker 2: goes away, Like there are a lot of different things
Speaker 2: that take that takes steps to recover to your full rhythm.
Speaker 2: Like there's making shots in practice, making shots against a
Speaker 2: defender in like a one on one situation, making shots
Speaker 2: in a real game, like a very different type of
Speaker 2: especially in an NBA playoff game, with the level of
Speaker 2: intensity that is there. And so I thought, Darius Garland,
Speaker 2: it kind of reminded me of some of Julius Randall's
Speaker 2: early playoff runs where he's just clearly out of rhythm.
Speaker 2: His jumper was off, he didn't look as explosive as
Speaker 2: he usually looks. Some of the reeds he was missing,
Speaker 2: Like Darius. The offense functioned well when he was on
Speaker 2: the floor. The Cavs logged about a one to twenty
Speaker 2: seven offensive rating when he was on the floor. But overall,
Speaker 2: just the not having Garland be the type of player
Speaker 2: that we know he's capable of being is like kind
Speaker 2: of having the headcut off the snake. In a lot
Speaker 2: of ways, I thought Cleveland in a lot of ways
Speaker 2: kind of defaulted to a lot more heavy dose Downovan Mitchell.
Speaker 2: They got away from going to the rim tonight because
Speaker 2: I think Indiana wore them down a little bit. I
Speaker 2: think it's a combination of things. I think there are
Speaker 2: obvious limitations for this Cavs team that got exposed in
Speaker 2: this playoff run, but losing basically the heart and soul
Speaker 2: of your offense and then putting him out there as
Speaker 2: a shell of himself, I think that that also kind
Speaker 2: of exacerbated the issues. There's never really any sustained stretch
Speaker 2: in the series where I thought they looked like the calves,
Speaker 2: the calves that I watched in the regular season, And
Speaker 2: so I think it's important as you head into this
Speaker 2: offseason to acknowledge that some of this is not explainable
Speaker 2: by injuries, and you need to look at some specific
Speaker 2: ways to kind of reconfigure the roster, Like if you're
Speaker 2: gonna end up playing small with Evan Mobley at center
Speaker 2: for large portions of the game, or if you're going
Speaker 2: to close with Jared Allen and Jared Allen's going to
Speaker 2: get just stuffed in a bag by Miles Turner, Like
Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of like you got to start
Speaker 2: looking at that wing position and trying to get a
Speaker 2: better version of like what DeAndre Hunter is, you know
Speaker 2: what Dan Wade is. They need something that provides more
Speaker 2: juice for them in these playoff lineups because too many
Speaker 2: of the guys that worked for them in the regular
Speaker 2: season did not work for them in this series. We'll
Speaker 2: do a lot more digging into that as we get
Speaker 2: into the offseason. My whole frame of mind is very
Speaker 2: much focused on the postseason right now, and we'll take
Speaker 2: a lot more look at that when we get into
Speaker 2: June in July, but obviously disappointing end of the season
Speaker 2: for the Calves and a lot of introspection that they've
Speaker 2: got ahead of them as we head into this summer.
Speaker 2: All Right, we're gonna have Jackson. Come on, We're gonna
Speaker 2: take a solid ten minutes or so questions before we
Speaker 2: head over to playback.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: We're gonna start with go back to the Denver Okase
Speaker 3: series first and then take some Cavs questions. Why does
Speaker 3: Denver keep loading up on SGA at the top of
Speaker 3: the key and leaving that corner swing three wide open?
Speaker 2: There are certain realities with Denver's defense from the standpoint
Speaker 2: of personnel. I mean, like as look at the late
Speaker 2: game lineup, like you have Michael Porter Junior out there,
Speaker 2: you have nicolea Jokic out there, you have Jamal Murray
Speaker 2: out there, and these have been the same realities for
Speaker 2: Denver's defense forever. But their defense is very much based
Speaker 2: on we can't stop these guys by playing straight up basketball,
Speaker 2: so we need to find a way to tilt things
Speaker 2: towards their higher variance options. And those are just their
Speaker 2: higher variance options. Jwa or Mail the three on the
Speaker 2: right wing late in the game before he made the
Speaker 2: big one in the left corner. Ludrt missed a boatload
Speaker 2: of threes in this series, Like a lot of guys
Speaker 2: miss threes at various points in this series, and so
Speaker 2: Denver's just taking a calculated risk. They're like, we if
Speaker 2: we can play Shay into a rough night, then we
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to cause the entire Thunder offense to
Speaker 2: basically look at each other like what are we gonna do,
Speaker 2: Like who's gonna take the shot, who's going to have
Speaker 2: the flow, who's gonna have the confidence to go here?
Speaker 2: And and like like I don't really see an option.
Speaker 2: Like if you guys think of it like this, you
Speaker 2: start covering those shooters, that's where you're just gonna get
Speaker 2: driven to pieces by Shay and Jadubb and those dudes
Speaker 2: will just be living at the front of the rim
Speaker 2: the entire series. And so I think I think it
Speaker 2: honestly was probably the best way to do it. I mean,
Speaker 2: if we talked about Oklahoma City during the regular season,
Speaker 2: we always talked about loading up the strong side, conceding
Speaker 2: those you know, kind of like lesser role player, moderately
Speaker 2: contested high pressure threes, and it didn't work, and you
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's playing the results. At that point,
Speaker 2: I think if you I think, if you guard lou
Speaker 2: Dort close, if you guard Cruso close, if you guard
Speaker 2: all these guys close off ball, I think you just
Speaker 2: get cut to pieces in the lane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you can play the results both ways.
Speaker 3: To night's game, they had some open swing threes and
Speaker 3: Shay also had a nasty ISO step back mid range
Speaker 3: and one, and he had a nasty spin move where
Speaker 3: he got to the room. If you guarding him, if
Speaker 3: you're just letting him iso straight up with no help
Speaker 3: every time, not gonna score every time. But he's he's
Speaker 3: came very very He's plenty capable. It's his best skill isoing.
Speaker 2: For the record too, Denver actually generated twenty three unguarded
Speaker 2: jump shots tonight. Catch and shoot jump shots in Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City only generated fifteen, so Denver was actually getting better looks.
Speaker 2: But to the point that we were just discussing, Denver
Speaker 2: got zero point nine to one points per unguarded catch
Speaker 2: and shooting. Okay, so you got one point two Like
Speaker 2: this has been a kind of a recurring theme for
Speaker 2: all the discussion about shooting results. Okay, so he's outshot
Speaker 2: Denver in this series, like Denver's offense has bogged down
Speaker 2: because none of their dudes are making shots.
Speaker 3: Speaking of none o their dudes' making shots. Question about
Speaker 3: Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Junior was pretty bad tonight.
Speaker 3: But if you're gonna sit him in crunch time, who
Speaker 3: would you play instead? Considering Westbroo's jumper has also gone cold.
Speaker 2: I would have gone with Peyton Watson because at the
Speaker 2: very least he's gonna give you defense and rebounding and
Speaker 2: a guy that you can put on the ball against
Speaker 2: Shay or against Jay Dubb. Like, I just didn't see
Speaker 2: the point. I didn't really understand the upside, like what
Speaker 2: like on my first initial reaction with Jokich was like,
Speaker 2: why'd you even pass the ball to him there? On
Speaker 2: that one at the top of the key, the one
Speaker 2: right after Jay Dubb hit his three to put him
Speaker 2: up three. My second take was like why is he
Speaker 2: even out there? It was like I was like, in
Speaker 2: real time, I'm just like I feel like that's not
Speaker 2: the right option because Michael Porter just had no confidence
Speaker 2: in his jump shot at all, and Peyton Watson wasn't
Speaker 2: hitting either, but at the very least you can count
Speaker 2: on him to do some other things.
Speaker 3: And also, yeah, and Peyton Watson is less likely to
Speaker 3: take a dumb shot. He's probably less likely to make
Speaker 3: a hard one, but he's also less likely to take
Speaker 3: a dumb one.
Speaker 2: Very good point. In this postseason run on unguarded catch
Speaker 2: and shoot jump shots, Michael Porter Junior is shooting six
Speaker 2: for twenty, just zero point nine points per.
Speaker 3: That's tough, all right. Now, one more question about this series.
Speaker 3: The thunder have one crunch time each of the last
Speaker 3: two games. Do you think that's more of a statement
Speaker 3: about their growth or the Nuggets running out of gas?
Speaker 2: It's both, although not tonight. I mean, Jokic made Jokicic
Speaker 2: made enough shots for his entire team crunch time tonight,
Speaker 2: Like he here's a single man, like a single handed
Speaker 2: h just crunch time wrecking ball tonight. But uh I,
Speaker 2: I mean, we saw this on playback when we watched
Speaker 2: Game four, and we'll see it tonight when we watch
Speaker 2: down the stretch. But like credit to Oklahoma City. There
Speaker 2: they are two stars made plays in crunch time when
Speaker 2: they could make them in the other parts of the game.
Speaker 2: So like they like they'll credit those guys like those
Speaker 2: dudes just made plays like they got into the lane.
Speaker 2: I think I think there's a wear and tear element
Speaker 2: with Denver's defense to wear like a couple of those
Speaker 2: late layups, like specifically the spin movie out on Christian
Speaker 2: Brown where he just went right back to the rim.
Speaker 2: Jokich was like just not even ready for it, and
Speaker 2: he just kind of conceded the layup and Christian Brown
Speaker 2: was on his heels that entire possession that's part of
Speaker 2: like that onslaught and then like kind of letting go
Speaker 2: of the rope because they just wear you down for sure.
Speaker 3: Let's take a couple about the other series and maybe
Speaker 3: some general NBA questions. Would you run it back with
Speaker 3: the calv next year with Tatum out in the East
Speaker 3: if the Honest is changed to the West again. I
Speaker 3: mean not that the Bucks were contender this year, but
Speaker 3: the East is theoretically getting even easier next year. So
Speaker 3: despite losing in the second round, what are you running back?
Speaker 3: Will you try to make some big structural changes?
Speaker 2: I would seriously start canvassing the market surrounding Jared Allen
Speaker 2: and Darius Garland and the case there is this there
Speaker 2: are some realities to the Darius Garland entry point thing.
Speaker 2: He did get attacked quite a bit, including the Aaron
Speaker 2: Andrew Nemhard and one in Crunch Times the night that
Speaker 2: ended up being a big play where he just kind
Speaker 2: of backed him down along the baseline. I discussed the
Speaker 2: offensive rating. The Cavs logged like a one to twenty
Speaker 2: seven offensive rating with Darius Garland on the floor. What
Speaker 2: do you think their defensive rating was with Darius Garland
Speaker 2: on the floor. It was one twenty seven. So so
Speaker 2: the point is is they got lit on fire on
Speaker 2: the other end of the floor. Jared Allen to me,
Speaker 2: I will have this image burned in my brain of
Speaker 2: him getting his ass kicked in the playoffs these last
Speaker 2: few years as like a real problem. I think that
Speaker 2: there's I think they need to be hunting down more big,
Speaker 2: strong forwards that can dribble, shoot, pass and defend. And
Speaker 2: so if you have the ability to, like Donovan Mitchell
Speaker 2: has clearly demonstrated that he's one of those guys. And
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley I think is continuing to progress on like
Speaker 2: a year by year basis in a way that I
Speaker 2: think is tangible and real and and useful for their
Speaker 2: development in the future. But I think I think you
Speaker 2: got to look at that playoff rotation. I like Max Strews.
Speaker 2: I think Max, like he had a rough game tonight,
Speaker 2: but I thought he was really good for the most
Speaker 2: part in this postseason run. And he's like a good
Speaker 2: defender and a guy that just kind of is in
Speaker 2: the right place at the right time all the time.
Speaker 2: Like he's one of those guys that I would I
Speaker 2: would stick with, But there I would I would like,
Speaker 2: I would start looking around for a team. But what
Speaker 2: are some fun Garland teams? Just for good question.
Speaker 3: Orlando is a great one, Orlando's a great one.
Speaker 2: Houston would be a fun Garland team. I like him
Speaker 2: anchored by freaky athleticism would be fascinating, especially as a
Speaker 2: guy that could just kind of set him up with advantages.
Speaker 2: But that the thing with Darius Garland. It's not even
Speaker 2: that I don't believe in him when he's healthy, because
Speaker 2: I want to be clear, Like I said this on
Speaker 2: the show a bunch of times, he was one of
Speaker 2: my favorite players to watch this year. He's so much fun.
Speaker 2: When he was healthy. He was like cutting like a
Speaker 2: knife through butter when he would drive through the lane
Speaker 2: around it, like it felt like he could beat anybody
Speaker 2: he wanted off the dribble and get to any spot
Speaker 2: on the floor that he wanted to. But the whole
Speaker 2: thing that everyone was talking about all year is like,
Speaker 2: the reason why Darius is doing this, it's not that
Speaker 2: he just got better, it's because he's healthy, and then
Speaker 2: he got he broke down at the end of the year,
Speaker 2: and so like a small guard that can't stay healthy,
Speaker 2: that has his defensive limitations, Like that's where I get
Speaker 2: to the point where I start to worry about him
Speaker 2: as a foundational piece. But I the thing that concerns
Speaker 2: me is Cavs fans like love that dude, and for
Speaker 2: good reason. But there are just some realities to playoff basketball,
Speaker 2: Like if there hasn't been a giant like flashing red
Speaker 2: light to tell you guys that the playoffs are a
Speaker 2: different sport, Like we came this close tonight to Denver
Speaker 2: taking a three to two lead and putting the third
Speaker 2: sixty win team because we had three sixty wins teams
Speaker 2: this year. One of them's already gone, the second one's
Speaker 2: about to be gone, and the third one was on
Speaker 2: the ropes tonight until they finally pulled out a game late,
Speaker 2: and it's still could go either way here the rest
Speaker 2: of the series. And so whatever your net rate, Like
Speaker 2: all the net rating talk and the regular season, all
Speaker 2: the focus on regular season dominance, it comes down to
Speaker 2: who can thrive in this sport, which is playoff NBA basketball,
Speaker 2: which is a different sport, and who has the versatility
Speaker 2: to make it through four rounds by adjusting to different opponents,
Speaker 2: Like it has never been more like that in NBA history.
Speaker 3: For sure. The next question, the Pacers have now gone
Speaker 3: to the conference finals in back to that years despite
Speaker 3: not having a top ten player. Do you think that
Speaker 3: their team is an example of a different style of
Speaker 3: team building that's possible in the NBA? It's historically very
Speaker 3: much been if you're going to advance deep into the playoffs,
Speaker 3: you need a high, high, high level, top ten player
Speaker 3: who's got that kind of scoring ability. And they seem
Speaker 3: to be bucking the trend a little bit.
Speaker 2: Jackson is tyres Helibert in a top ten player? I think,
Speaker 2: oh man, that is a like this is we're gonna
Speaker 2: have fun.
Speaker 3: This is top ten player Jesus Christ, to be honest,
Speaker 3: A question that hadn't even crossed my mind when I
Speaker 3: read the question. But now that you say it, I
Speaker 3: mean maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's not a points per game, certainly not, I mean
Speaker 2: obviously not for him, Like I, I don't like. Tyree's
Speaker 2: to me is an offensive engine. He's closer to like
Speaker 2: the Steph Jokic ilk than he is too like that.
Speaker 2: Like guys, here's here's some basic stats for you so
Speaker 2: that we can put away the idea of of points
Speaker 2: per game with Tyre's Halliburton. He's run one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty two ball screens in the postseason, including passes, and
Speaker 2: he's generating one point zero seven points per possession. He's
Speaker 2: run forty nine ISOs, most of them against switches. He's
Speaker 2: generated fifty nine points. That's one point two zero points
Speaker 2: per possession. He's been a super reliable shot creator in
Speaker 2: this postseason run. Like like I, it's so much deeper
Speaker 2: than putting shots at putting individual shot making on the
Speaker 2: table like he is, like it is such a it
Speaker 2: is such a half court surgery sport. And he just
Speaker 2: keeps his offense in rhythm consistently. He's had the clut
Speaker 2: shot making late. I'm not saying he's a top ten player.
Speaker 2: But when we when we discussed this summer, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be surprised if he landed at like nine, ten, eleven,
Speaker 2: twelve in that range. And we'll see, we'll talk about
Speaker 2: it more this summer. To the point of the question, though,
Speaker 2: like there's been all this debate about, you know, the
Speaker 2: stars versus the depth, and I've given my two cents
Speaker 2: in terms of, like me still feeling like stars are
Speaker 2: determining outcomes in many cases. But it is both, and
Speaker 2: it's always been both. Depth is probably a little more
Speaker 2: relevant now just because a pace there's more possessions of
Speaker 2: every game, the games are more intense, there's more ground coverage,
Speaker 2: there's more physical wear and tear, so all that's fair,
Speaker 2: but there's no doubt that it takes both. You need
Speaker 2: to have a great player at the head, a great
Speaker 2: number two, and you need to have a lot of
Speaker 2: talent down the roster. And if we go back in
Speaker 2: NBA history, Boston wasn't just the top five guys. They
Speaker 2: had six starting caliber players and then Sam Houser was
Speaker 2: legit and Peyton Pritchard was legit. You go back to
Speaker 2: the previous year with Denver, it was Bruce Brown like
Speaker 2: they had they had like six starters that they could
Speaker 2: legitimately trust and they could, oh, this is not in
Speaker 2: a Michael Porter Junior game. We're gonna lean into Bruce
Speaker 2: Brown more in this particular game. You go back to
Speaker 2: twenty two with the Warriors, it was Jordan Poole having
Speaker 2: the success that he had off of the bench, and
Speaker 2: what's his name, the guy that the wing who always
Speaker 2: gets hurt auto Porter Junior the Warriors, the Warriors capturing
Speaker 2: a season of useful auto Porter Junior play twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one with the Bucks. You look at you know, PJ.
Speaker 2: Tucker as a bench weapon. You go to the Lakers
Speaker 2: and it's Rajon Rondo and Kyle Kuzma coming off the bench.
Speaker 2: You go back to twenty nineteen. We can go down
Speaker 2: the line, like every NBA champion has had like six
Speaker 2: or seven awesome players. There are no examples that I
Speaker 2: can think of where there was a superstar and a
Speaker 2: bunch of bums who won the title. That doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen. Guys, like you need superstars and you
Speaker 2: need depth, like like or if you're the Celtics last year,
Speaker 2: you can have two near superstars and five thirty million
Speaker 2: dollar players, but like you win championships with talent. That
Speaker 2: has always been the case. The only thing we see
Speaker 2: at the highest levels is two really talented teams. Where
Speaker 2: sometimes there's a team that's a little bit more talented,
Speaker 2: but this team overcomes it because they play a better
Speaker 2: brand of basketball, or they have a few role players
Speaker 2: that get hot, or a star out plays the other star.
Speaker 2: But ultimately it's the super talented teams at the top
Speaker 2: that are competing every year. It's not bums like you need,
Speaker 2: you need both. And this Pacers team, everyone's gotten better.
Speaker 2: We've talked about it. Turner is better, He's beaten switches
Speaker 2: at a super high level now, Siakam had his is
Speaker 2: coming on at the right time. The Smith and Nemhart
Speaker 2: have both gotten better each of the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: Tyres Halliburn's the best he's looked since the start of
Speaker 2: last year. Ben Mathern has become a really useful off
Speaker 2: the bench weapon for them. TJ McConnell's one of the
Speaker 2: top four or five backup guards in the league. They're talented,
Speaker 2: as is every great team that ever makes deep playoff
Speaker 2: runs in NBA history.
Speaker 3: Hundred percent. Even that's true even of even of some
Speaker 3: teams that we think of as top heavy, like the
Speaker 3: those you know, Championship era Calves and Warriors teams like
Speaker 3: Sean Lemingston is coming off the bench super super useful
Speaker 3: like that. Both of these teams have. Richard Jefferson was
Speaker 3: massive for the Caps in that series, both channing both
Speaker 3: teams even the best that most teams that we think
Speaker 3: of as particularly top heavy, you have a lot of
Speaker 3: depth as well. One more question then we'll go over
Speaker 3: to playback. This is not about either of these two
Speaker 3: series today. Assuming the Warriors lose to the t Wolves,
Speaker 3: should they try to build around their big three in
Speaker 3: the off season, Steph Jimmy Draymond or see if there's
Speaker 3: actually any way to pursue a major talent upgrade like Yannis,
Speaker 3: And just for fairness for the hypothetical, I'm gonna say
Speaker 3: building around their big three, the option A includes getting
Speaker 3: Cam Johnson and an option be you know, is honest,
Speaker 3: because if it's just build around those three guys generally
Speaker 3: versus Jannis, the entriest feel like, obviously honest.
Speaker 2: You call Yannis, this is what you do? You Steph
Speaker 2: Starts blowing up Jannis's phone and asking him to leverage
Speaker 2: things behind the scenes. It's not gonna work because like
Speaker 2: the Bucks brass are gonna look at Youiannis in the
Speaker 2: face and be like, dude, I'm not gonna turn down
Speaker 2: seven first round draft picks. Like I don't know what
Speaker 2: to tell you. But you make the call, You do
Speaker 2: your deal due diligence. You have Steph call Jannis, you
Speaker 2: have your front office call the Bucks front office. You
Speaker 2: explore everything there, and you put together the best possible
Speaker 2: offer that you can. But I mean, ultimately, like even
Speaker 2: with the Yannis thing, if you get Yannis and it
Speaker 2: complete guts you of any depth, like because like why
Speaker 2: would Milwaukee want, you know, Jimmy Butler for instance, Like
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to You're gonna have to find a
Speaker 2: way to justify that deal with asset compensation. And so
Speaker 2: it's worth a call. It's just unlikely. And then I
Speaker 2: start to think of it from the perspective of the
Speaker 2: Cam Johnson piece, and it's like, would you rather have
Speaker 2: Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler and Draymond or Steph Giannis
Speaker 2: and Draymond. You obviously take Giannis, but like it's the
Speaker 2: Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler Draymond is still a really
Speaker 2: cool like upgrade that accentuates this specific areas that they
Speaker 2: need help in. And I think that team can compete
Speaker 2: for a championship. So it's not a bad fallback option,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense. You're not holding any delusions of
Speaker 2: grandeur that they're gonna get young y. Sorry, I don't
Speaker 2: think so.
Speaker 3: I think it. I think it's a very it's one
Speaker 3: of the more fun two man pairings that we haven't
Speaker 3: seen before in the NBA. Stepan, I mean, Steph with
Speaker 3: a lot of players becomes the most fun too man team,
Speaker 3: but stephanianis is particularly fun. But no, I don't I
Speaker 3: don't see I don't see it that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just there, and it like the three buyers
Speaker 2: at the top of the league just have so much
Speaker 2: to offer that it's just it's going to be extremely
Speaker 2: difficult to compete there. I mean, especially now that the
Speaker 2: Spurs have they can dangle the number two overall pick,
Speaker 2: which is arguably a more valuable asset than anything that
Speaker 2: the Golden State Warriors have access to. All right, guys,
Speaker 2: it's all we have for YouTube tonight. We're heading over
Speaker 2: to playback. We'll see you guys there in just a
Speaker 2: couple of minutes. Again, it's playback dot TV slash Hoops tonight.
Speaker 2: We'll see you guys there in a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2: What's so, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening
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Speaker 1: The volume