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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume

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Speaker 2: heavy Tuesday, Buddy hop ball. If you guys are having

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Speaker 2: a great week. Another fantastic game from this OKC Denver

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Speaker 2: series that has given us plenty of great basketball here

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Speaker 2: in the second round and the Pacers close out the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Cavaliers earlier today. We're gonna be breaking down both

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Speaker 2: of those games from the perspective of both teams, and

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Speaker 2: then we'll take about ten to fifteen minutes of questions

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Speaker 2: at the tail end of the show. When we are

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Speaker 2: done here tonight, we'll be heading over to playback again

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Speaker 2: that's playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight, or we'll be

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Speaker 2: taking questions, taking callers, hanging out watching some film, just

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Speaker 2: having some fun talking hoops for an extra forty five

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Speaker 2: minutes to an hour or so after we finish here

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Speaker 2: live on YouTube, you guys know the Joe before we

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Speaker 2: get started, to subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels.

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Speaker 2: You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me

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Speaker 2: on Twitter at underscore jsonlt so you guys don't misshow announcements.

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Speaker 2: Some forget about a podcast feed wherever you get your

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Speaker 2: podcast and our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if

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Speaker 2: we leave a rating inter review on that front. Jackson's

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Speaker 2: doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,

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Speaker 2: Make sure you guys follow us there. In the last

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Speaker 2: but not least, keep dropping mail back questions in the

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Speaker 2: chat so we can get to them in our questions

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Speaker 2: at the tail end of the show. All right, let's

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Speaker 2: talk some basketball. So you know, there's been a pretty

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Speaker 2: consistent theme over the last couple of games. The thunder

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Speaker 2: Stars have actually struggled to create quality shots for the

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Speaker 2: most part over the course of the last two games,

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Speaker 2: but in both games they've been able to make plays late.

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Speaker 2: Those of you guys who hung out with us on

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Speaker 2: playback on Sunday night or Sunday afternoon, we went over

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Speaker 2: some of that footage and you'll see that a couple

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Speaker 2: of big driving buckets from Shay and from JDub, a

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Speaker 2: big right shoulder fade from Shay out of that five

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Speaker 2: second call they forced on the baseline. And so even

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Speaker 2: though those guys struggled in large part, they were able

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Speaker 2: to make big plays late to put the game away. Similarly, tonight,

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Speaker 2: same sort of thing. JDub and Shay both struggling throughout

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Speaker 2: the game. JDub hits a huge three on a kickout

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Speaker 2: off of a double team kind of like swing swing

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Speaker 2: sequence where he gets a wide open three on the

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Speaker 2: left wing. He had just airmailed one from the right

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Speaker 2: wing a few possessions earlier, and just confidently steps in

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Speaker 2: and knocks down the big one late Shay, that huge

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Speaker 2: driving spin move bucket, the and one on Jamal Murray

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Speaker 2: around the left elbow, the step back three over Christian Brown,

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Speaker 2: and the left wing, the driving lob Isaiah Hartenstein. The

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Speaker 2: plays were made late to put the game away. But

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Speaker 2: the question is, how is it that they were in

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Speaker 2: a position with their stars not playing very well to

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Speaker 2: win a game like that down the stretch against a

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Speaker 2: Denver Nuggets offense that is one of the greatest offenses

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Speaker 2: that we've seen in recent NBA history. I was going

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Speaker 2: over with Jackson the numbers from the series. The Nuggets

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Speaker 2: only get one hundred and five points tonight, despite the

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Speaker 2: fact that Jokic goes for forty four, that they get

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Speaker 2: sixty two out of Jokich and Murray in the game.

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Speaker 2: The Nuggets only got eighty seven in Game four. They

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Speaker 2: only got one hundred and four in Game three. They

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Speaker 2: only got one hundred and six in Game two. Since

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Speaker 2: that Game one explosion where they went for one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty one points, they haven't been able to have

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Speaker 2: any sort of sustained offensive success. And that's because the

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Speaker 2: real star of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their defense.

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Speaker 2: Their defense keeps them in these games long enough for

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Speaker 2: their younger stars to work through their lumps and to

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Speaker 2: find the ability to make a few plays late. It

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Speaker 2: buys them all of this margin for air. And even

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Speaker 2: though they lost control of Yokic tonight, they've had a

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Speaker 2: great deal of success with him in this series by

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Speaker 2: overplaying his right hand with Isaiah Hartenstein, which is forcing

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Speaker 2: Jokic into some really difficult finishing positions where he's missing

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Speaker 2: shots that he usually makes. You know, they're posting chet

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Speaker 2: on the backside to help. Anytime Jokic goes towards the rim,

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Speaker 2: they're doubling him on the baseline side. Every single time

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Speaker 2: he tries to post up, He's They've had extended success

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Speaker 2: against Denver's defense against Denver's offense, and in tonight's game,

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Speaker 2: even though Jokic had it going, they got control of

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Speaker 2: Jamal Murray late and no one else on the roster

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Speaker 2: was able to do any sort of substantial damage to

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Speaker 2: them in this game. Their defense, through the incessant pressure

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Speaker 2: and wearing you down and getting you to miss shots

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Speaker 2: like Michael Porter Junior is oh for fourteen from three

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Speaker 2: in the last three games. You want to know why

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Speaker 2: he's oh for fourteen from three in the last three games.

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Speaker 2: It's because his legs are cooked. His legs are cooked

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Speaker 2: from contending with this team. Yes, the shoulder injury plays

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Speaker 2: a role, but his right hand he can follow through

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Speaker 2: and shoot this shot. He can't even get it over

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Speaker 2: the front of the rim. As his last two threes

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Speaker 2: were pitifully short. Most of them have been pitifully short.

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Speaker 2: They're wearing them down. Jamal Murray misses another wide open

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Speaker 2: three out of the right corner late in the game.

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Speaker 2: There is a cumulative physical wear and tear factor, and

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Speaker 2: they've been able to walk Denver down. At the tail

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Speaker 2: end of these games. Denver was up to to one

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Speaker 2: in the series, led by eight in the fourth quarter

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Speaker 2: of Game four, led by nine in the fourth quarter

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Speaker 2: of Game five. In Oklahoma City is up three to

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Speaker 2: two in this series, and it's because their defense has

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Speaker 2: managed to keep things close and because their stars have

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Speaker 2: been able to make plays late in the game, even

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Speaker 2: though they've struggled in the meat and potatoes of the game. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: a huge part in this was lou Dart lou Dort,

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Speaker 2: excuse me, kind of getting out of his shooting slump

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Speaker 2: in a big way in that fourth quarter. Nicole Jokic

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Speaker 2: has basically been conceding shots to him whenever he can,

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Speaker 2: and to Dort's credit, he just kept taking them to

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Speaker 2: the point where I'm sure there were some Oklahoma City

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Speaker 2: fans while he was taking them that weren't necessarily thrilled

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Speaker 2: with the shots, but they went in. He had his moment,

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Speaker 2: ran back to the to the bench screaming that I'm back,

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Speaker 2: and he is because he needed every They needed every

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Speaker 2: single one of those buckets. That's what he raced that

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Speaker 2: lead that forced it into a crunch time shot making contest,

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Speaker 2: and Jokic was there. Jokicic went blow for blow with them,

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Speaker 2: hit one of those absurd, somber shuffle shots at the

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Speaker 2: top of the key. That was one of the crazier

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Speaker 2: shots I've seen Yokic hit in his career, especially when

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Speaker 2: you factor in time in place I've seen him or

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Speaker 2: time in score, I should say I've seen him hit

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Speaker 2: that shot before, but like usually, like just at the

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Speaker 2: end of the quarter, at the end of the shot clock.

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Speaker 2: For him to tie the game with less than two

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Speaker 2: minutes left with one of those against a great contest

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Speaker 2: at the top of the key. You overcame a incredible

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Speaker 2: Yokic performance that was every bit as good as the

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Speaker 2: one that we saw in Game one of this series.

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Speaker 2: And now the thunder up three too, And you know

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Speaker 2: what happens next is gonna be interesting. Because I talked

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Speaker 2: after Game four, like I thought Denver blew their chance

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Speaker 2: to win the series. Their offense was in such a

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Speaker 2: they were so down in the mud that I didn't

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Speaker 2: see anything that they had going for them that would

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Speaker 2: manifest in the ability to win on the road in

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma City, which would make it very difficult for them

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Speaker 2: to win this series. Right, Well, there's some encouraging stuff

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Speaker 2: out of that. So in a weird way, I came

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Speaker 2: out of Game four thinking this series is over, Oklahoma

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Speaker 2: City's gonna get it. Now, I still feel like Denver's

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Speaker 2: got a legitimate chance. Jokic has regained his mojo after

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Speaker 2: three straight awful games by his standards, and has gotten

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Speaker 2: back to having the touch on the three point shot,

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Speaker 2: having the touch on the short range shot, making having

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Speaker 2: the kind of just like aura and presence that he

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Speaker 2: brings down the stretch of these games. That is back.

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Speaker 2: Jamal Murray had his highest volume scoring game of the series,

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Speaker 2: although not necessarily the most efficient one. He took twenty

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Speaker 2: seven shots tonight, but Jamal Murray started to get some

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Speaker 2: things going. There are some things that Denver has going

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Speaker 2: in terms of their two man game now that gives

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Speaker 2: them a puncher's chance. I think they have a legitimate

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Speaker 2: chance to go home and win Game six. And then

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Speaker 2: after what we've seen tonight, we would all be foolish

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Speaker 2: to count out NICOLEA Jokicic in a Game seven on

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Speaker 2: the road in Oklahoma City. That said, I picked Oklahoma

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Speaker 2: City in seven before the series. This series is kind

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Speaker 2: of manifested with some of those things in terms of

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Speaker 2: the way Denver has been able to bog down Oklahoma

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Speaker 2: City's defense or offense excuse me, and Jokich has been

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Speaker 2: able to make plays late in games to steal games.

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Speaker 2: But I still think Oklahoma City is gonna end up

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Speaker 2: closing this thing out in seven is my best guess

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Speaker 2: at this point in time.

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Speaker 1: Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports.

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Speaker 2: All right, we're going to talk a little Pacers Caps,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll get into our mailbag for a little

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Speaker 2: bit before we get out of here and head over

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Speaker 2: to playback. So, Pacers Caps. The Cavs jumped up to

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Speaker 2: a nineteen point lead early in the second quarter. Donovan

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Speaker 2: Mitchell and Evan Mobley combined for twenty three points in

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Speaker 2: the first quarter. They defended well, it looks kind of

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Speaker 2: similar to what happening Game four, where the home team

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Speaker 2: is just kind of taking control immediately out the gates.

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Speaker 2: I was complaining to Jackson because I hate playoff series

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Speaker 2: where the teams just trade off blowouts. It's like somebody

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Speaker 2: just take a stand and try to win a game

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Speaker 2: after taking a little bit of a run early. And

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Speaker 2: that was what the Pacers did, because if you guys

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Speaker 2: remember in Game four, the Pacers slammed the door shut

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Speaker 2: with a seventeen to oher run right before the half

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Speaker 2: that put the game completely out of reach, and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, the Calves were in no position to

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Speaker 2: even amount even the asseemblance of a comeback. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they outscored the Pacers by twenty one in the second

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Speaker 2: half and still lost by twenty right, but the Calves

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Speaker 2: were unable to make a similar type of run tonight.

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Speaker 2: In fact, the Pacers made a big second quarter run

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Speaker 2: that regained a presence in the game that they then

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Speaker 2: rode to a big lead in the second half. Every

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Speaker 2: time the Calves made a run, Tyre's Halliburton had a response.

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Speaker 2: He's the guy who ignited the run right before the

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Speaker 2: half that brought the game back within reach. He hit

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Speaker 2: an assortment of pull up threes versus different pick and

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Speaker 2: roll coverages. He hit one over Jared Allen in a switch,

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Speaker 2: he hit one over Jared Allen and a dropped coverage

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Speaker 2: from way out damn near by. The logo just got

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Speaker 2: a heater. They're shooting the ball. That brought them back

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Speaker 2: into the game. And then the Cavs did end up

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Speaker 2: making another run in the fourth quarter that cut the

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Speaker 2: lead down to one off of a couple of back

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Speaker 2: to back threes from Donovan Mitchell and Tyres Haliburton slammed

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Speaker 2: the door shot on that too. He ran a simple

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Speaker 2: pick and pop off of a big offensive rebound for

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Speaker 2: Miles Turner and hit Andrew Nemhard on the left wing,

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Speaker 2: who had a three. Ty Jerome goes down and decides

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Speaker 2: it's his time, even though it hasn't been his time

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Speaker 2: in that entire series, so I'm not sure what he

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Speaker 2: was thinking, but ran in there and tried to take

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Speaker 2: some floater and Tyres Haliburton just beautiful rear view contests,

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Speaker 2: swatted it from behind, got the rebound, went down the

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Speaker 2: other way and got an end one and basically ended

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Speaker 2: the series and ended the Cleveland Cavaliers season. Now here's

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Speaker 2: the thing, Tyree's He may not have had the statistical

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Speaker 2: impact in this series that Donovan Mitchell had, but I

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Speaker 2: thought he dominated every pivotal stretch of the series. He

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Speaker 2: goes for twenty two points and thirteen and a wire

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Speaker 2: to wire pacers just kind of like just demonstrate to

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Speaker 2: everybody what makes them so good in Game one. Then

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Speaker 2: he hits the game winner and two driving layups in

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Speaker 2: crunch time of Game two. Then he goes for thirty one,

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Speaker 2: six and eight Tonight dominates every pivotal stretch of this

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Speaker 2: close out game five. Aliburn's just having a very special

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Speaker 2: playoff run, and I'm really really excited to see what

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Speaker 2: it looks like in that next round. I want to

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Speaker 2: shout out a couple other pacers before we look forward.

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Speaker 2: Miles Turner, I thought he whooped Jared Allen's ass in

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Speaker 2: this series on both ends of the floor. Scored in

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Speaker 2: double figures. Every game caused all sorts of problems for

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Speaker 2: him on the roll where he was missing some shots

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Speaker 2: that he usually makes killed him on the glass. Had

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Speaker 2: that critical offensive rebound again tonight after that miss, Jared

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Speaker 2: Allen boxes him out to one point. Game calves, get

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Speaker 2: a rebound and go down and score. We might be

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Speaker 2: heading to Indiana for a game six, but he just

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Speaker 2: throws Jared Allen out of the way like a rag doll,

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Speaker 2: gets the offensive rebound swing swing. Next thing you know,

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Speaker 2: it's that Tyres Alibert Andrew nemhard two band game that

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Speaker 2: ends in the three that puts him back up by four.

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Speaker 2: His play finishing the picking pop threes, the short roll,

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Speaker 2: jump shots around the elbow, beating switches. In this postseason run,

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Speaker 2: he's shot out of the post on seventeen different possessions

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Speaker 2: and he's scored nineteen points as a shooter. So he's

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Speaker 2: routinely been a high value option for them. Every single

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Speaker 2: time he catches a guard and a switch in ball screens.

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Speaker 2: He's been excellent. Siakam was consistently good in the series,

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Speaker 2: but put up his two biggest scoring games to close

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Speaker 2: the deal. Andrew Aaroni Smith could make a three tonight,

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Speaker 2: but he had a lot of really high level scoring

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Speaker 2: moves in the mid range. Andrew nemhard again doing the

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Speaker 2: job on both ends of the floor, hitting that huge

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Speaker 2: shot late. They're just the Pacers are just hitting their

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Speaker 2: peak on both ends of the floor at the perfect time.

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Speaker 2: I thought their defense was excellent again tonight. They held

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Speaker 2: the Cavs to seventy four points over the final three

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Speaker 2: quarters of this game. Even Halliburton I thought was good

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Speaker 2: on defense, getting deflections in his head and recovers with

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Speaker 2: high hands. The rear view contest on Ty Jerome was

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Speaker 2: a huge play late. Like he's active, he's competing, He's

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Speaker 2: got a shortcomings. He can get out of position. Obviously

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Speaker 2: he's a smaller slender player on ball, but like he

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Speaker 2: just competes and does his job on defense. And so

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Speaker 2: as I look forward to the Knick series, like, I

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Speaker 2: think this is a very different matchup for the Knicks

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Speaker 2: than the Celtics, and I want to I want to

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Speaker 2: make a similar example to what I use. If you

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Speaker 2: guys remember after the Lakers Timberwolve series. One of the

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Speaker 2: things that the Lakers did in the Timberwolve series is

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Speaker 2: because of their play style with Luka Doncic, they're basically

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Speaker 2: just picking on switches and running a lot of high

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Speaker 2: iso right and so as a result, it challenges your

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Speaker 2: individual defenders, particularly your weaker individual defenders, but it is

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Speaker 2: not so much a mental challenge. It's not a lot

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Speaker 2: of ball in player movement. There's not a lot of

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Speaker 2: like pace and blender to what they're doing. And then

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Speaker 2: you go into the Minnesota matchup, or you go into

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Speaker 2: the Golden State matchup with Minnesota, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: it's like in game one, you could just see it's

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Speaker 2: like Steph's getting clean looks right away, they're losing Buddy

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Speaker 2: healed and screening actions. So all of a sudden, there's

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Speaker 2: just this blender of ball in player movement, and without

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Speaker 2: Steph Curry, they were holding second half leads in the

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Speaker 2: games in Golden State, although the talent differential ended up

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Speaker 2: being too much for them to overcome. But there's a

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Speaker 2: similar dynamic at play as we head into this next

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Speaker 2: matchup for the Knicks, in the sense that as the

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Speaker 2: Knicks deployed a game plan centered around switching with their

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Speaker 2: five and switching with Jalen Brunson, which I agreed with

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Speaker 2: was their best game plan for the Celtics in particular,

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Speaker 2: the Celtics fell into the trap. The purpose of that

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Speaker 2: game plan is not just to gift Boston favorable matchups.

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Speaker 2: The purpose of that game plan was to stagnate Boston,

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Speaker 2: to force them into a bunch of isolation attack while you,

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Speaker 2: on the other end, have everybody involved, and it can

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Speaker 2: just lead to kind of a rhythm differential between the

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Speaker 2: two offenses. And we saw that manifest as the Nicks

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Speaker 2: pulled away last night. Here's the thing with the Pacers.

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Speaker 2: You can try switching if you want. They're not going

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Speaker 2: to stagnate. They attack switching with speed and ball in

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Speaker 2: player movement. They will still throw the ball to Siakam

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Speaker 2: on the block. They still will throw the ball to

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Speaker 2: Turner on the block, but they will get the ball

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Speaker 2: moving quickly throughout the possession and force you to make

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Speaker 2: mistakes early in the clock, and then they'll go down

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Speaker 2: to a deep post up and they'll attack it at

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Speaker 2: the front of the rim. That's the big difference between

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Speaker 2: what Siakam and Turner do to your guards and what

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Speaker 2: Boston does. Boston isolates and faces up from twenty three

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Speaker 2: feet and might work you down to the elbow, but

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Speaker 2: they're not trying to back you down into these like

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Speaker 2: right at the front of the rim type of post ups.

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Speaker 2: Very often the pace they'll move the ball around and

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Speaker 2: when they get the favorable switch, they don't pitch the

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Speaker 2: ball to Siakam at the top of the key. Siakam

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00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 2: seals that dude on the block and they throw it

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Speaker 2: down and he's just turning over his left shoulder for

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00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 2: easy shit right off the glass. That's what Miles Turner's

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Speaker 2: doing too. They beat switches right at the front of

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Speaker 2: the rim, and they can beat switching with their ball

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Speaker 2: and player movement. That doesn't matter what your half court

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Speaker 2: scheme is. If they're going to push the ball up

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Speaker 2: the floor, with pace and get into action early and

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00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 2: get you into rotation before you're ever set to begin

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Speaker 2: the possession. This Pacers team is a fundamentally different offensive

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Speaker 2: challenge than what the Boston Celtics do. We all know

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Speaker 2: what the Celtics can do when they get going with

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Speaker 2: their driving kick. There's a certain level of talent that

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Speaker 2: they have in their three point shooting all over the floor.

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Speaker 2: The Pacers bring that too, but they never stagnate. That's

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Speaker 2: the big difference. And all I could think about last

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Speaker 2: night after the Knicks one and everyone celebrating the Knicks

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Speaker 2: is I'm just worried about a guy like Carl Anthony

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Speaker 2: Towns just being put into a million actions at the

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Speaker 2: top of the key, and not like being asked to

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00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 2: just guard Tyre's Halliburton and switches in space, but rather

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Speaker 2: Tyre's Haliburton getting there and then just driving right by

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Speaker 2: Carl Anthony Towns and swing and pass past pass and

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Speaker 2: driving kick and another wide open three. Like there's a

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Speaker 2: pace and it flow to what the Pacers do that

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Speaker 2: never runs out of steam. You want to know why

385
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 2: they come back again tonight after going down by nineteen

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Speaker 2: in the early second quarter, because it never stops. The

387
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,679
Speaker 2: ball pressure never stops. The pace never stops. The relentless

388
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: hunting of advantages never stops, the relentless hunting of mismatches

389
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 2: never stops. They just keep coming at you. And so

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's like a game plan trick to

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Speaker 2: slowing down the pacers other than you just have to

392
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Speaker 2: be super attentive and you've got to try to keep

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Speaker 2: the ball in front of you, and you've got to

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Speaker 2: close out the shooters. So many of these Caves players

395
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 2: are not as slow as you'd think. There's a couple guys,

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Speaker 2: like I thought DeAndre Hunter in particular, looked stuck in

397
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 2: the mud often throughout the series. But most of it

398
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: is just simple decision making from Cleveland, like your natural

399
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 2: tendency to sink into the elbow in an off ball

400
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 2: situation while not being attentive. And it's just a quick

401
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 2: swing pass, and there's Aaron E. Smith going right past

402
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: you to the front of the rim, or running right

403
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: past you for an offensive rebound or obi topping you

404
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: want you turn your head for a second, he's cutting

405
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 2: along that baseline. And so it's like I, like I said,

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Speaker 2: for the U, this like the Timberwolves matchup. I thought

407
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,400
Speaker 2: that the Celtics series was a test of Jalen Brunson

408
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: in Karl Anthony Town's individual defensive talent on An Island,

409
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 2: and Kat was able to get some stops against Tatum

410
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 2: late in Game four. Brunson was able to get stops

411
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 2: Layton Game one against Tatum, Layight in Game two against

412
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown, in the post against Horford at various points

413
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 2: in time. This is gonna be more of a mental challenge.

414
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,479
Speaker 2: The idea of contending with the Pacers and their flow

415
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: is going to be a test up here for your

416
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 2: ability to pay attention. And I think that's gonna be

417
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: a super fascinating series. Obviously, the Celtics series isn't isn't

418
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 2: even over yet, but with the news with Jason Tatum's

419
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 2: achilles tear, I would just be stunned if Boston won

420
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Speaker 2: three in a row against the Knicks. So I do

421
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Speaker 2: think we're gonna end up getting Nicks Pacers in that

422
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Speaker 2: third round series. On the Cavs front, you know, it

423
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Speaker 2: feels like it's very difficult for me to get a

424
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 2: good feel for just how big their issues are. There

425
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: are obvious issues that you can't just explain away with injuries.

426
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 2: Jared Allen got his ass kicked, and that's unfortunate because

427
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: he got his ass kicked by Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah

428
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 2: Hartenstein a couple years ago. Like, there is a couple

429
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: of examples of Jared Allen being a very good regular

430
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: season center who runs into these settings and suddenly is

431
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: not as impactful, not as physical as he needs to be.

432
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 2: His advantages running the floor in transition go away because

433
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: everyone's running. DeAndre Hunter, I thought, had a brutal series

434
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 2: on both ends of the floor. He was one of

435
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: their biggest defensive problems. Ty Jerome struggles. Those aren't associated

436
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 2: with injury. He just got his ass handed to him

437
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: in the series on both ends of the floor. Next

438
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 2: Strus goes for zero points in an elimination game. Too

439
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: many calves didn't play well. So there's a certain amount

440
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: of this that is not explainable by injuries. But Darius Garland,

441
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: I want to kind of like remind you guys of

442
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: what I said when we were talking about Julius Randall.

443
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 2: Rhythm is a fickle thing, especially for certain players. Yeah,

444
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant can have another ankle injury that keeps him

445
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 2: out for five weeks and he can just walk on

446
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: to an NBA court and score twenty seven points on

447
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: thirteen shots. He's Kevin Durant. He's the exception. Take him

448
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 2: and remove him from the discussion. It's it's just it's

449
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 2: entirely irrelevant to the majority of basketball players in the world.

450
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 2: For the most, for most basketball players, if you spend

451
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 2: any sort of extended time away from the game, it

452
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 2: takes a long time to get that rhythm back. There's

453
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: a conditioning element, there's a leg strength element, there's kind

454
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 2: of like a flow element. Like those of you guys

455
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: who play will understand you on vacation and you come

456
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,239
Speaker 2: back and play pick up or you play in your

457
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: men's league, Like the handle goes away, the jump shot

458
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: goes away, Like there are a lot of different things

459
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: that take that takes steps to recover to your full rhythm.

460
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: Like there's making shots in practice, making shots against a

461
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 2: defender in like a one on one situation, making shots

462
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: in a real game, like a very different type of

463
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: especially in an NBA playoff game, with the level of

464
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: intensity that is there. And so I thought, Darius Garland,

465
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: it kind of reminded me of some of Julius Randall's

466
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 2: early playoff runs where he's just clearly out of rhythm.

467
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,239
Speaker 2: His jumper was off, he didn't look as explosive as

468
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 2: he usually looks. Some of the reeds he was missing,

469
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: Like Darius. The offense functioned well when he was on

470
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: the floor. The Cavs logged about a one to twenty

471
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: seven offensive rating when he was on the floor. But overall,

472
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: just the not having Garland be the type of player

473
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: that we know he's capable of being is like kind

474
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: of having the headcut off the snake. In a lot

475
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: of ways, I thought Cleveland in a lot of ways

476
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: kind of defaulted to a lot more heavy dose Downovan Mitchell.

477
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: They got away from going to the rim tonight because

478
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: I think Indiana wore them down a little bit. I

479
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: think it's a combination of things. I think there are

480
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 2: obvious limitations for this Cavs team that got exposed in

481
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: this playoff run, but losing basically the heart and soul

482
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: of your offense and then putting him out there as

483
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: a shell of himself, I think that that also kind

484
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: of exacerbated the issues. There's never really any sustained stretch

485
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: in the series where I thought they looked like the calves,

486
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: the calves that I watched in the regular season, And

487
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: so I think it's important as you head into this

488
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: offseason to acknowledge that some of this is not explainable

489
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: by injuries, and you need to look at some specific

490
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: ways to kind of reconfigure the roster, Like if you're

491
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 2: gonna end up playing small with Evan Mobley at center

492
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: for large portions of the game, or if you're going

493
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: to close with Jared Allen and Jared Allen's going to

494
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 2: get just stuffed in a bag by Miles Turner, Like

495
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of like you got to start

496
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: looking at that wing position and trying to get a

497
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 2: better version of like what DeAndre Hunter is, you know

498
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: what Dan Wade is. They need something that provides more

499
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 2: juice for them in these playoff lineups because too many

500
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 2: of the guys that worked for them in the regular

501
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: season did not work for them in this series. We'll

502
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: do a lot more digging into that as we get

503
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 2: into the offseason. My whole frame of mind is very

504
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: much focused on the postseason right now, and we'll take

505
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: a lot more look at that when we get into

506
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: June in July, but obviously disappointing end of the season

507
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: for the Calves and a lot of introspection that they've

508
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: got ahead of them as we head into this summer.

509
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: All Right, we're gonna have Jackson. Come on, We're gonna

510
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: take a solid ten minutes or so questions before we

511
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: head over to playback.

512
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: Let's do it.

513
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

514
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: We're gonna start with go back to the Denver Okase

515
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 3: series first and then take some Cavs questions. Why does

516
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: Denver keep loading up on SGA at the top of

517
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: the key and leaving that corner swing three wide open?

518
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: There are certain realities with Denver's defense from the standpoint

519
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: of personnel. I mean, like as look at the late

520
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: game lineup, like you have Michael Porter Junior out there,

521
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: you have nicolea Jokic out there, you have Jamal Murray

522
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: out there, and these have been the same realities for

523
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: Denver's defense forever. But their defense is very much based

524
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: on we can't stop these guys by playing straight up basketball,

525
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: so we need to find a way to tilt things

526
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: towards their higher variance options. And those are just their

527
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 2: higher variance options. Jwa or Mail the three on the

528
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: right wing late in the game before he made the

529
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: big one in the left corner. Ludrt missed a boatload

530
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: of threes in this series, Like a lot of guys

531
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: miss threes at various points in this series, and so

532
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: Denver's just taking a calculated risk. They're like, we if

533
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 2: we can play Shay into a rough night, then we

534
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to cause the entire Thunder offense to

535
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 2: basically look at each other like what are we gonna do,

536
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: Like who's gonna take the shot, who's going to have

537
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: the flow, who's gonna have the confidence to go here?

538
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 2: And and like like I don't really see an option.

539
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: Like if you guys think of it like this, you

540
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: start covering those shooters, that's where you're just gonna get

541
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: driven to pieces by Shay and Jadubb and those dudes

542
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: will just be living at the front of the rim

543
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: the entire series. And so I think I think it

544
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: honestly was probably the best way to do it. I mean,

545
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: if we talked about Oklahoma City during the regular season,

546
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: we always talked about loading up the strong side, conceding

547
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: those you know, kind of like lesser role player, moderately

548
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 2: contested high pressure threes, and it didn't work, and you

549
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's playing the results. At that point,

550
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: I think if you I think, if you guard lou

551
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: Dort close, if you guard Cruso close, if you guard

552
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: all these guys close off ball, I think you just

553
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: get cut to pieces in the lane.

554
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you can play the results both ways.

555
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: To night's game, they had some open swing threes and

556
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 3: Shay also had a nasty ISO step back mid range

557
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: and one, and he had a nasty spin move where

558
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: he got to the room. If you guarding him, if

559
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 3: you're just letting him iso straight up with no help

560
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 3: every time, not gonna score every time. But he's he's

561
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: came very very He's plenty capable. It's his best skill isoing.

562
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: For the record too, Denver actually generated twenty three unguarded

563
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: jump shots tonight. Catch and shoot jump shots in Oklahoma

564
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: City only generated fifteen, so Denver was actually getting better looks.

565
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: But to the point that we were just discussing, Denver

566
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: got zero point nine to one points per unguarded catch

567
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: and shooting. Okay, so you got one point two Like

568
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: this has been a kind of a recurring theme for

569
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: all the discussion about shooting results. Okay, so he's outshot

570
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: Denver in this series, like Denver's offense has bogged down

571
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: because none of their dudes are making shots.

572
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: Speaking of none o their dudes' making shots. Question about

573
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Junior was pretty bad tonight.

574
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 3: But if you're gonna sit him in crunch time, who

575
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: would you play instead? Considering Westbroo's jumper has also gone cold.

576
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: I would have gone with Peyton Watson because at the

577
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: very least he's gonna give you defense and rebounding and

578
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: a guy that you can put on the ball against

579
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: Shay or against Jay Dubb. Like, I just didn't see

580
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: the point. I didn't really understand the upside, like what

581
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: like on my first initial reaction with Jokich was like,

582
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: why'd you even pass the ball to him there? On

583
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: that one at the top of the key, the one

584
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: right after Jay Dubb hit his three to put him

585
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: up three. My second take was like why is he

586
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: even out there? It was like I was like, in

587
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: real time, I'm just like I feel like that's not

588
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: the right option because Michael Porter just had no confidence

589
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: in his jump shot at all, and Peyton Watson wasn't

590
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: hitting either, but at the very least you can count

591
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: on him to do some other things.

592
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: And also, yeah, and Peyton Watson is less likely to

593
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: take a dumb shot. He's probably less likely to make

594
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: a hard one, but he's also less likely to take

595
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: a dumb one.

596
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: Very good point. In this postseason run on unguarded catch

597
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: and shoot jump shots, Michael Porter Junior is shooting six

598
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: for twenty, just zero point nine points per.

599
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: That's tough, all right. Now, one more question about this series.

600
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: The thunder have one crunch time each of the last

601
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: two games. Do you think that's more of a statement

602
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 3: about their growth or the Nuggets running out of gas?

603
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: It's both, although not tonight. I mean, Jokic made Jokicic

604
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: made enough shots for his entire team crunch time tonight,

605
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: Like he here's a single man, like a single handed

606
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: h just crunch time wrecking ball tonight. But uh I,

607
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we saw this on playback when we watched

608
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: Game four, and we'll see it tonight when we watch

609
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: down the stretch. But like credit to Oklahoma City. There

610
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: they are two stars made plays in crunch time when

611
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: they could make them in the other parts of the game.

612
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: So like they like they'll credit those guys like those

613
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: dudes just made plays like they got into the lane.

614
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: I think I think there's a wear and tear element

615
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: with Denver's defense to wear like a couple of those

616
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: late layups, like specifically the spin movie out on Christian

617
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: Brown where he just went right back to the rim.

618
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: Jokich was like just not even ready for it, and

619
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: he just kind of conceded the layup and Christian Brown

620
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: was on his heels that entire possession that's part of

621
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: like that onslaught and then like kind of letting go

622
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: of the rope because they just wear you down for sure.

623
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: Let's take a couple about the other series and maybe

624
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 3: some general NBA questions. Would you run it back with

625
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: the calv next year with Tatum out in the East

626
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: if the Honest is changed to the West again. I

627
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: mean not that the Bucks were contender this year, but

628
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: the East is theoretically getting even easier next year. So

629
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: despite losing in the second round, what are you running back?

630
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: Will you try to make some big structural changes?

631
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: I would seriously start canvassing the market surrounding Jared Allen

632
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: and Darius Garland and the case there is this there

633
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: are some realities to the Darius Garland entry point thing.

634
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: He did get attacked quite a bit, including the Aaron

635
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: Andrew Nemhard and one in Crunch Times the night that

636
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:17,959
Speaker 2: ended up being a big play where he just kind

637
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: of backed him down along the baseline. I discussed the

638
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: offensive rating. The Cavs logged like a one to twenty

639
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: seven offensive rating with Darius Garland on the floor. What

640
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: do you think their defensive rating was with Darius Garland

641
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: on the floor. It was one twenty seven. So so

642
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: the point is is they got lit on fire on

643
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: the other end of the floor. Jared Allen to me,

644
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: I will have this image burned in my brain of

645
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: him getting his ass kicked in the playoffs these last

646
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: few years as like a real problem. I think that

647
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: there's I think they need to be hunting down more big,

648
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: strong forwards that can dribble, shoot, pass and defend. And

649
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: so if you have the ability to, like Donovan Mitchell

650
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: has clearly demonstrated that he's one of those guys. And

651
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley I think is continuing to progress on like

652
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: a year by year basis in a way that I

653
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: think is tangible and real and and useful for their

654
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: development in the future. But I think I think you

655
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: got to look at that playoff rotation. I like Max Strews.

656
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: I think Max, like he had a rough game tonight,

657
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: but I thought he was really good for the most

658
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,239
Speaker 2: part in this postseason run. And he's like a good

659
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: defender and a guy that just kind of is in

660
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: the right place at the right time all the time.

661
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: Like he's one of those guys that I would I

662
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: would stick with, But there I would I would like,

663
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: I would start looking around for a team. But what

664
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: are some fun Garland teams? Just for good question.

665
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: Orlando is a great one, Orlando's a great one.

666
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: Houston would be a fun Garland team. I like him

667
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: anchored by freaky athleticism would be fascinating, especially as a

668
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 2: guy that could just kind of set him up with advantages.

669
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: But that the thing with Darius Garland. It's not even

670
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: that I don't believe in him when he's healthy, because

671
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: I want to be clear, Like I said this on

672
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: the show a bunch of times, he was one of

673
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: my favorite players to watch this year. He's so much fun.

674
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: When he was healthy. He was like cutting like a

675
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: knife through butter when he would drive through the lane

676
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: around it, like it felt like he could beat anybody

677
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 2: he wanted off the dribble and get to any spot

678
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 2: on the floor that he wanted to. But the whole

679
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: thing that everyone was talking about all year is like,

680
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: the reason why Darius is doing this, it's not that

681
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: he just got better, it's because he's healthy, and then

682
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 2: he got he broke down at the end of the year,

683
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: and so like a small guard that can't stay healthy,

684
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: that has his defensive limitations, Like that's where I get

685
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: to the point where I start to worry about him

686
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: as a foundational piece. But I the thing that concerns

687
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: me is Cavs fans like love that dude, and for

688
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: good reason. But there are just some realities to playoff basketball,

689
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: Like if there hasn't been a giant like flashing red

690
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: light to tell you guys that the playoffs are a

691
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: different sport, Like we came this close tonight to Denver

692
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 2: taking a three to two lead and putting the third

693
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: sixty win team because we had three sixty wins teams

694
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: this year. One of them's already gone, the second one's

695
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: about to be gone, and the third one was on

696
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: the ropes tonight until they finally pulled out a game late,

697
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 2: and it's still could go either way here the rest

698
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: of the series. And so whatever your net rate, Like

699
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: all the net rating talk and the regular season, all

700
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 2: the focus on regular season dominance, it comes down to

701
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: who can thrive in this sport, which is playoff NBA basketball,

702
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: which is a different sport, and who has the versatility

703
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: to make it through four rounds by adjusting to different opponents,

704
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: Like it has never been more like that in NBA history.

705
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: For sure. The next question, the Pacers have now gone

706
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: to the conference finals in back to that years despite

707
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: not having a top ten player. Do you think that

708
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: their team is an example of a different style of

709
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: team building that's possible in the NBA? It's historically very

710
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: much been if you're going to advance deep into the playoffs,

711
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 3: you need a high, high, high level, top ten player

712
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: who's got that kind of scoring ability. And they seem

713
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: to be bucking the trend a little bit.

714
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: Jackson is tyres Helibert in a top ten player? I think,

715
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: oh man, that is a like this is we're gonna

716
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: have fun.

717
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 3: This is top ten player Jesus Christ, to be honest,

718
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: A question that hadn't even crossed my mind when I

719
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 3: read the question. But now that you say it, I

720
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: mean maybe I don't know.

721
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: It's not a points per game, certainly not, I mean

722
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: obviously not for him, Like I, I don't like. Tyree's

723
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: to me is an offensive engine. He's closer to like

724
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: the Steph Jokic ilk than he is too like that.

725
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: Like guys, here's here's some basic stats for you so

726
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: that we can put away the idea of of points

727
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: per game with Tyre's Halliburton. He's run one hundred and

728
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: fifty two ball screens in the postseason, including passes, and

729
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: he's generating one point zero seven points per possession. He's

730
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: run forty nine ISOs, most of them against switches. He's

731
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: generated fifty nine points. That's one point two zero points

732
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: per possession. He's been a super reliable shot creator in

733
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: this postseason run. Like like I, it's so much deeper

734
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: than putting shots at putting individual shot making on the

735
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: table like he is, like it is such a it

736
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: is such a half court surgery sport. And he just

737
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: keeps his offense in rhythm consistently. He's had the clut

738
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: shot making late. I'm not saying he's a top ten player.

739
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 2: But when we when we discussed this summer, I wouldn't

740
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: be surprised if he landed at like nine, ten, eleven,

741
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: twelve in that range. And we'll see, we'll talk about

742
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: it more this summer. To the point of the question, though,

743
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: like there's been all this debate about, you know, the

744
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: stars versus the depth, and I've given my two cents

745
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: in terms of, like me still feeling like stars are

746
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: determining outcomes in many cases. But it is both, and

747
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 2: it's always been both. Depth is probably a little more

748
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: relevant now just because a pace there's more possessions of

749
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 2: every game, the games are more intense, there's more ground coverage,

750
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: there's more physical wear and tear, so all that's fair,

751
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: but there's no doubt that it takes both. You need

752
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: to have a great player at the head, a great

753
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 2: number two, and you need to have a lot of

754
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: talent down the roster. And if we go back in

755
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: NBA history, Boston wasn't just the top five guys. They

756
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: had six starting caliber players and then Sam Houser was

757
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: legit and Peyton Pritchard was legit. You go back to

758
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: the previous year with Denver, it was Bruce Brown like

759
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: they had they had like six starters that they could

760
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 2: legitimately trust and they could, oh, this is not in

761
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: a Michael Porter Junior game. We're gonna lean into Bruce

762
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: Brown more in this particular game. You go back to

763
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: twenty two with the Warriors, it was Jordan Poole having

764
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 2: the success that he had off of the bench, and

765
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: what's his name, the guy that the wing who always

766
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 2: gets hurt auto Porter Junior the Warriors, the Warriors capturing

767
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 2: a season of useful auto Porter Junior play twenty twenty

768
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: one with the Bucks. You look at you know, PJ.

769
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: Tucker as a bench weapon. You go to the Lakers

770
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: and it's Rajon Rondo and Kyle Kuzma coming off the bench.

771
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: You go back to twenty nineteen. We can go down

772
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: the line, like every NBA champion has had like six

773
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: or seven awesome players. There are no examples that I

774
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: can think of where there was a superstar and a

775
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: bunch of bums who won the title. That doesn't happen.

776
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen. Guys, like you need superstars and you

777
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: need depth, like like or if you're the Celtics last year,

778
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: you can have two near superstars and five thirty million

779
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: dollar players, but like you win championships with talent. That

780
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: has always been the case. The only thing we see

781
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: at the highest levels is two really talented teams. Where

782
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: sometimes there's a team that's a little bit more talented,

783
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: but this team overcomes it because they play a better

784
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: brand of basketball, or they have a few role players

785
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: that get hot, or a star out plays the other star.

786
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: But ultimately it's the super talented teams at the top

787
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: that are competing every year. It's not bums like you need,

788
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: you need both. And this Pacers team, everyone's gotten better.

789
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: We've talked about it. Turner is better, He's beaten switches

790
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: at a super high level now, Siakam had his is

791
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 2: coming on at the right time. The Smith and Nemhart

792
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: have both gotten better each of the last couple of years.

793
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 2: Tyres Halliburn's the best he's looked since the start of

794
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: last year. Ben Mathern has become a really useful off

795
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: the bench weapon for them. TJ McConnell's one of the

796
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 2: top four or five backup guards in the league. They're talented,

797
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: as is every great team that ever makes deep playoff

798
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: runs in NBA history.

799
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: Hundred percent. Even that's true even of even of some

800
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 3: teams that we think of as top heavy, like the

801
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: those you know, Championship era Calves and Warriors teams like

802
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 3: Sean Lemingston is coming off the bench super super useful

803
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 3: like that. Both of these teams have. Richard Jefferson was

804
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 3: massive for the Caps in that series, both channing both

805
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: teams even the best that most teams that we think

806
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: of as particularly top heavy, you have a lot of

807
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: depth as well. One more question then we'll go over

808
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 3: to playback. This is not about either of these two

809
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 3: series today. Assuming the Warriors lose to the t Wolves,

810
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: should they try to build around their big three in

811
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 3: the off season, Steph Jimmy Draymond or see if there's

812
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 3: actually any way to pursue a major talent upgrade like Yannis,

813
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 3: And just for fairness for the hypothetical, I'm gonna say

814
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 3: building around their big three, the option A includes getting

815
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: Cam Johnson and an option be you know, is honest,

816
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 3: because if it's just build around those three guys generally

817
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 3: versus Jannis, the entriest feel like, obviously honest.

818
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 2: You call Yannis, this is what you do? You Steph

819
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: Starts blowing up Jannis's phone and asking him to leverage

820
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: things behind the scenes. It's not gonna work because like

821
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: the Bucks brass are gonna look at Youiannis in the

822
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 2: face and be like, dude, I'm not gonna turn down

823
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: seven first round draft picks. Like I don't know what

824
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: to tell you. But you make the call, You do

825
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: your deal due diligence. You have Steph call Jannis, you

826
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: have your front office call the Bucks front office. You

827
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: explore everything there, and you put together the best possible

828
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 2: offer that you can. But I mean, ultimately, like even

829
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: with the Yannis thing, if you get Yannis and it

830
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: complete guts you of any depth, like because like why

831
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: would Milwaukee want, you know, Jimmy Butler for instance, Like

832
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to You're gonna have to find a

833
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: way to justify that deal with asset compensation. And so

834
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: it's worth a call. It's just unlikely. And then I

835
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: start to think of it from the perspective of the

836
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 2: Cam Johnson piece, and it's like, would you rather have

837
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 2: Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler and Draymond or Steph Giannis

838
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 2: and Draymond. You obviously take Giannis, but like it's the

839
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler Draymond is still a really

840
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: cool like upgrade that accentuates this specific areas that they

841
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 2: need help in. And I think that team can compete

842
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: for a championship. So it's not a bad fallback option,

843
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: if that makes sense. You're not holding any delusions of

844
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 2: grandeur that they're gonna get young y. Sorry, I don't

845
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: think so.

846
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: I think it. I think it's a very it's one

847
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 3: of the more fun two man pairings that we haven't

848
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 3: seen before in the NBA. Stepan, I mean, Steph with

849
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: a lot of players becomes the most fun too man team,

850
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 3: but stephanianis is particularly fun. But no, I don't I

851
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 3: don't see I don't see it that.

852
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just there, and it like the three buyers

853
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 2: at the top of the league just have so much

854
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 2: to offer that it's just it's going to be extremely

855
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: difficult to compete there. I mean, especially now that the

856
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: Spurs have they can dangle the number two overall pick,

857
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: which is arguably a more valuable asset than anything that

858
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: the Golden State Warriors have access to. All right, guys,

859
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: it's all we have for YouTube tonight. We're heading over

860
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: to playback. We'll see you guys there in just a

861
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: couple of minutes. Again, it's playback dot TV slash Hoops tonight.

862
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 2: We'll see you guys there in a couple of minutes.

863
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: What's so, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening

864
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 2: to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually be really

865
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: helpful for us if you guys would take a second

866
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: and leave a rating and a review. As always, I

867
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take

868
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.

869
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: The volume