1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about Deborah Sampson Gannette 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: this week, who we've gotten various listener requests to talk 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: about on the show. I meant to say in the 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: actual episode and forgot that I I followed, even though 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: I did not finished reading the novel Revolutionary, I did 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: actually follow Alex Meyer's direction on like being open to 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: talking about Robert Shirtlift by that name during the time 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: that Deborah Sampson was disguised as Robert Shirtliff. Most people, uh, 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: like historians and otherwise who have looked at the story 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: have pretty much concluded that this was a disguise and 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: that more than likely she would not identify as as 14 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: transgender today, especially because she went, uh she sort of 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: returned to life as a woman after her time in 16 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: the military was over. But I also thought it would 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: be interesting just kind of let her experience be more fluid, 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: which it also seems to have been in having been 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: undiscovered for a full eighteen months. Because that would have 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: taken a lot of work. We did not get into 21 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: that very much at all. Also didn't get into how 22 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: many women would have been around as camp followers through 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: even a lot of other women. They're doing things like 24 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: cooking for people, and just a lot of a lot 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: of people who wound up being camp followers or people who, 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: like the men in their lives, had joined and they 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: had no way to sustain themselves without somebody there, and 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: so they just wound up kind of following along, um, 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: which was one of the reasons that they were, uh 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: disparaged in some ways. A lot of them, like were 31 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: absolutely impoverished and had no no means to support themselves 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: at all and had just kind of wound up at 33 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: the camp. Yeah, there was that right up that we 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: were reading the quotes from that. I was just like, 35 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: wof um, it's so simultaneously praising and demeaning that It's like, yeah, 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: it makes my brain spin. It's like it's like a 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: weird no, No, she was a good one of these 38 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: horrible people that would be deviant. It's like there's speculation 39 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: about who who wrote this piece, like who either wrote 40 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: the piece or talked to a reporter, like who would 41 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: have done that, because it doesn't seem like she did it. Herself, 42 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: but it may have been like one of the officers 43 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: who found out what had happened, UM for reasons, maybe 44 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: hoping to set the stage of her being able to 45 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: claim some some pension or some assistance later on. Don't 46 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: really know. There's a kind of a big mystery there. 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: I was still in the pulling the resources phase when 48 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: I found the thing about her in Notable Black American Women, 49 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: and what I thought had happened at first, UM, A 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: lot of the books that are in that search will 51 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: have virtually an identical article on somebody or an event 52 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: spread across multiple publications with like very little editing. Is 53 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: like the same thing will be reused from one place 54 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: to another. And so I originally thought that it was 55 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: just an error because it was almost word for word 56 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: identical to another one that was in another article that 57 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: was about the revolution were generally and not about black 58 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 1: women specifically. UM. And then when I started looking into it, 59 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: I found just some heated discussions about it. I found 60 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: one an archive of what I am assuming was a 61 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: list serve back when I don't know if people are 62 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: still using list serves, but when I use list serves, 63 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: it was in the nineteen nineties and this was a 64 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: list Serve from the nineteen nineties and early two thousand's, 65 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: and there was some heated conversation among people about her race. Uh. 66 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: And one of the things that really struck me is 67 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: that there would be a lot of people who were like, 68 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: here's the book that it traces back to, and here 69 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: are other places that it was picked up, and there 70 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: was like citation of all of that, um. But then 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: the counterpoint sometimes would be like, no, she was black. 72 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: The idea that she was white came from the National 73 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: Geographic article, and they apologized, and I was like, what 74 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: National Geographic article and what apology? And I would start 75 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: trying to track it down and just kind of go 76 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: down a big rabbit hole. It was just a whole 77 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: huge I don't know. Apparently this is a thing that 78 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: will crop up over and over and over again, that 79 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: the there was somebody within this list serve, like a 80 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: historian who was part of it, who just had a 81 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: pre written thing that she would send back in every 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: time somebody asked the question that was like detailing what 83 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: we knew about her family history and what seemed to 84 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: be the source for that idea. So fascinating, Yeah, I 85 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: get it. I mean that's like I said in the 86 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: or like we both said in the episode, like there 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: was really important, necessary, valuable work being done to document 88 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: the contributions of black people to the revolution. I found 89 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: a thing somewhere that suggested that between five and ten 90 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: percent of the Continental Army were black. I wasn't able 91 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: to go look that up, but like, that was such 92 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: important work, and I I can totally see where people 93 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: got to that conclusion from the way that passage is written, 94 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: uh in in the book about the Yeah, I can 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: see how people made that conclusion and then how it 96 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: kind of spread from there. But if anybody has like 97 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: pinpointed this was her ancestor this is who we're talking about, Like, 98 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to find that, and it definitely does 99 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: not seem like she or other people living at the 100 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: same time as her thought that she was in today's words, 101 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: black or a person of color. Yeah, that seems like 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: it would have come up. Yeah, but I guess there 103 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: will always be a little bit of we don't know 104 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, the historian I have forgotten his name, 105 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: but the book that we reference at the end, that 106 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: is like a historical book about her that's been published 107 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: relatively recently. The historian that worked on that talked about 108 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: talking to descendants of hers and they're having a variety 109 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: of responses to this whole question, some of them being 110 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: like no, and I'm irritated that you asked all the 111 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: way to the other end of the spectrum, being sort 112 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: of like, I don't actually know, but if she was, 113 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: like I'd be interested now. Um. So I found that 114 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,679 Speaker 1: very interesting too. I of course thought of Mulan throughout 115 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: the yeah, which undoubtedly, like the version that we have 116 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: in the US, like the Disney version, is certainly informed 117 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: by stories like Debrah's. We even mentioned how her right 118 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: up by herman Man is very similar to other ones 119 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: from prior to her, Like, I think those all get 120 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: amalgamated in a story like Mulan that's made for a 121 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: general audience as a fiction piece. Yeah. Yeah, And we've 122 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: had other episodes before that have been about women who 123 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: disguise themselves as men to serve in an army. At 124 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: some point like that's been I wouldn't call it a 125 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: recurring theme, but you know, maybe three ish times over 126 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: the past many years that you and I have been 127 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: on the show, that has come up, and there are 128 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: some similar beats, and a lot of those stories, um, 129 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: some of them, I have felt a lot more like 130 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: I felt like I knew more about that that particular 131 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: person's thoughts and feelings than with Deborah Sampson because so 132 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: much of what we know of her was filtered through 133 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: this largely fictionalized biography slash novel, and the things that 134 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: we have that are her own words are things like 135 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: her journal from the tour. She apparently kept a journal 136 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: while she was in the service, which would have been 137 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: an amazing resource to have, but it was lost when 138 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: the boat that she was traveling on was capsized, according 139 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: to the herman Man biography. But that's like a document. 140 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: But if that really was a real thing, I wish 141 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: we had it because we might know a lot more about, 142 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: like how she felt about this whole situation and how 143 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: she felt about herself when she was in the army. 144 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: A lot of those questions we don't really know. Tracy, 145 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: I should have told you before we recorded our episode 146 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: about the Bib family. I'm braced for a lot of 147 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: people to be real angry, Yeah, because is there a 148 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: lot of people who really love Major Bib Oh? Yeah, 149 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: And I clearly have some issues with him. Yeah, Um, 150 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: and I understand, like there are people and connections that 151 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: you have and you want to make the best of him. 152 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: And yes, he did eventually free people. But I get 153 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: really hung up on like, why why would you wait 154 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: until you were dead? Right? You didn't want to inconvenience yourself? 155 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: Is that what's going on here? Like, That's where I 156 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: get really hung up, And I'm like, that doesn't necessarily 157 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: make for a great person. Yeah, that point comes up 158 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: a lot in the especially among like historical figures who 159 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: are well known, and that becomes part of this. And 160 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: then when they died, they freed all of their enslaved workers, 161 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: and it's like they were dead by that point. Yeah, 162 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: that's a struggle. Um. There's also the fact that I 163 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: George is a of fascinating and troubling figure. He beyond 164 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: this we didn't get into this in the episode, but 165 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: went on to even greater positions of power. He was 166 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: part of President Tyler's cabinet. He you know, and when 167 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: you consider that this is a person who really really 168 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: like wrote what to me reads is a very coercive 169 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: letter suggesting really not actually obeying the spirit of his 170 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: father's will, and then went on to have so much power. 171 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: That also troubles me a lot. Um. His relationship with 172 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson is weird. He supported him, but then he 173 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: fought with them, but they had like a weird thing 174 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: going on. George is a trick in many ways. Um. 175 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: But but yes, the other thing about Major Bib providing 176 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: for his enslaved workforce to become free after his death 177 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: that I think maybe George had a point that he 178 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: didn't think everything through, is that there's no provision to 179 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: ensure anyone's safety. And it's not like he knew for 180 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: certain that the Civil war was coming and that this 181 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: would all get solved. But at the same time, he 182 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: did know he was living in a slave stay, and 183 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: he had to know unless he was just wilfully blind 184 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: to the realities of our country in the world at 185 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: that point, that that put every one of those people 186 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: at risk. Richard, What are you doing, ma'am? Yeah? Did 187 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: you ever listen to the podcast The nod some I have. 188 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: I'm very bad about keeping up with podcasts, is my 189 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: horrible confession as a podcaster. Yeah, and I I I 190 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: would listen to I would sort of pick and choose 191 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: episodes of that particular show. Um. The show was canceled 192 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: a while back, but I'm pretty sure you can still 193 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: get these episodes. They had episodes about the Hairston family 194 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: in North care Lina, which had some parallels to the 195 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: Bib family and having reunions among um, the people who 196 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: were descendants of enslaved people and the people who were 197 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: descendants of the White family and the like the overlap 198 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: because there were people who were descendants. It was the 199 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: same same situation of of this enslavers having um fathered 200 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: children with their enslaved workforce, which obviously would have been 201 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: rape um and like just talk talking about from people's 202 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: own perspectives what it was like to be part of 203 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: this family and to go to these reunions and things 204 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: like that. Um. It's been years since I listened to 205 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: those episodes, but I remember having the slowly dawning realization 206 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: that I knew some of the people they were talking 207 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: about because this plantation was in North Carolina, not that 208 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: far from where I grew up. And anyway, Uh, that 209 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: is another another place to find other perspective on that 210 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: aspect of this episode. Yeah, I UM, I know we 211 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: mentioned it at the end of the episode, but I 212 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: also just want to reiterate that I really really think 213 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: um Linney O'Neil's Peace The Bitter Harvest of Richard Bibb 214 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: is super important for people to read. She doesn't pull punches, 215 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: she's very frank. These are conversations that most white people 216 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: do not have the fortitude to have their hard. They 217 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: mostly want to be told like, no, you're good, and 218 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: it doesn't help anybody deal with the literally hundreds of 219 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: years of anger that people have been inheriting and kind 220 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: of sucking up, which is super unhelpful, and the generational trauma. Yes, 221 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: so that is a It's a very good read. I 222 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: really cannot recommend it highly enough. Um. I also just 223 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: I kept going back to John Bibbs life and thinking 224 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: about how much of like his decisions are the result 225 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: of being someone privileged enough to have a family who 226 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: had generational wealth built by enslaved people. Like there's that 227 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: whole there's a big ten year gap in his life 228 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: where he closes his law practice and he doesn't get 229 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: into politics for like almost eleven years, and it's like 230 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: because he could just hang out right, which sounds great, 231 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure to all of us. Although I had hope 232 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: none of us would choose to do it as a 233 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: result of other people's enslaved labor. But like that is 234 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: that is what his life of wealth afforded him, and 235 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: any of those people who were working for his family 236 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: as enslaved workforce couldn't be like, you know, I just 237 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm having bad health. I need to take ten years off. 238 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: They couldn't do it. That's where I like get frustrated 239 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: and want to cry in anger. Um. I also want 240 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: to mention we mentioned Joshua Fry, who was interesting. He's 241 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: the person that taught John bib as a kid and 242 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: a lot of prominent Kentuckians. He also has his own 243 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: complicated relationship with slavery. And I don't want to I 244 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: just didn't want to like be like no, he was good, 245 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: Like I don't want to let him off the hook. 246 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: We didn't get into it because it was like gonna 247 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: sidetrack the whole thing. But he's very interesting. He really 248 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: like forwarded education in many ways. He also had problematic 249 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: parts of his life. Um, I just want to make 250 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: sure we acknowledge that because I don't want to gloss 251 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: past any of it. Um. Yeah, this is not the 252 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: episode I meant to do. Yeah, I'm like Alfreda was 253 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: so fun. Let's talk about lettuce. Oh damn it. I 254 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: promise there will be another fun one. But we got 255 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: to have these conversations because they're super important. If this 256 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: is the end of your work week and you are 257 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: about to come upon some days off, I hope that 258 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: they are good to you and that you have some 259 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: relaxation and time to reflect on whatever you're working through. 260 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: This is a very strange time in all of our lives. 261 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: I know you probably have a lot on your mind. 262 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: I know I do, uh So I hope that you 263 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: get some space to work through any of that, however 264 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: works best for you. If you have to work, I'm sorry. Um, 265 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: if you have other responsibilities, I'm also sorry. I would 266 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: like for all of us to live lives of pleasure. 267 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: But I hope that whatever you have to do goes 268 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: as smoothly as possible and is as unstressful as possible. 269 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: And we will be right back here with you tomorrow 270 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: with a classic and then on Monday with brand new episodes. 271 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of 272 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 273 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever 274 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.