1
00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:10,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. The other day, our

2
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: producer Julia Press pulled me into the studio with a

3
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: sweeter than usual assignment.

4
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,239
Speaker 2: I have treats brought back from my tour of the

5
00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,759
Speaker 2: Welchi's Fruit Snacks factory. I brought two types of fruit

6
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 2: snacks for you to try. This old type that they're

7
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 2: phasing out and the new type that they're rolling out.

8
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 2: And there's one key difference. The old type included a

9
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 2: little bit of artificial dyes added in for color. The

10
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 2: new type only gets their dies from natural sources fruits

11
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:43,160
Speaker 2: and vegetables.

12
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,560
Speaker 1: This switch has been a long time in the making.

13
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 1: Welch's has been on a decade long odyssey to swap

14
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,320
Speaker 1: out artificial flavors for natural ones. But it's now something

15
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 1: the Trump administration wants all companies to do as part

16
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: of its crusade to quote make America healthy again.

17
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 2: Okay, dump them out. How did they look to you?

18
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 2: So they look exactly the same, you think? Okay, let's

19
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 2: do a side by side comparison. Let's start with raspberry.

20
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 1: All right, old kind, a little more clear, a little

21
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 1: more vibrant. New kind, firmer, skinnier, and a little more muted,

22
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 1: but only slightly.

23
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 2: They do look pretty much identical.

24
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:28,679
Speaker 1: They look pretty much identical.

25
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do a taste test. Close your eyes.

26
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,119
Speaker 1: Number one, I'm really getting taken back to middle school here.

27
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 3: You look blissed out.

28
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: It tastes so good.

29
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,119
Speaker 4: Okay.

30
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 1: Number two, spoiler alert, I couldn't tell the difference. Well,

31
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,200
Speaker 1: I just had two delicious fruit snacks that tasted exactly

32
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: the same. Really, if you had to guess, was the

33
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: first one the old kind and the second one the

34
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 1: new kind?

35
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 4: No?

36
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 3: Oh, the opposit.

37
00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: Making a near replica of this popular product was time consuming, costly,

38
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 1: and complicated, and as other companies try to pull this off,

39
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,399
Speaker 1: Welch's case study could reveal a lot about the challenges

40
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,960
Speaker 1: that lie ahead for the American food industry. I'm Sarah Holder,

41
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,079
Speaker 1: and this is the big take from Bloomberg News today.

42
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,080
Speaker 1: On the show, as the Trump Administration's MAHA movement encourages

43
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 1: more and more food and drink companies to rework their formulas,

44
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,720
Speaker 1: we visit one company that's done it to see what

45
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:39,079
Speaker 1: it takes. What's the first thing you think of when

46
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,839
Speaker 1: you think of Welch's fruit snacks.

47
00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 4: I think of vending machines like soccer practice, where like

48
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 4: you're you know, deciding.

49
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 3: You know, how you're going to spend your two dollars

50
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 3: and fifty cents that you've scrowned up.

51
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,799
Speaker 1: Yes, they were in my middle school vending machine too.

52
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and we would.

53
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 1: Like get them during lunch and kind of like swap

54
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 1: colors and things like that.

55
00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, personally avoiding the orange one.

56
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 1: That's Bloomberg reporter Will Kobzanski. He recently went with our

57
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: producer Julia to tour A. Welch's Fruits next production plant

58
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,559
Speaker 1: in New Jersey because.

59
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,959
Speaker 4: They have begun rolling out products without any synthetic food dies.

60
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 4: So that's you know, Red forty blue number one, and

61
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,359
Speaker 4: you know, they had just started making this transition on

62
00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,079
Speaker 4: its flagship product, the mixed fruit variety.

63
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: Food dyes are in the headlines a lot these days.

64
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 4: Four years from now, we're going to have most of

65
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 4: these products off the market, or you will know about

66
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 4: them when.

67
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 1: You They've been thrust into the spotlight by Trump's Secretary

68
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Junior. We

69
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 1: have them on the run now and we are going

70
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: to win this battle. That battle he's talking about is

71
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: the war on ultra processed foods, specifically the artificial dyes

72
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 1: that are often in those ultra processed foods, like petroleum

73
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 1: based red forty. So far, it's been more of a

74
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 1: pressure campaign than an all out war. The FDA hasn't

75
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 1: banned these dies outright, but RFK has encouraged companies to

76
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 1: drop them by the end of next year.

77
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,640
Speaker 4: There's lots of other things he cares about, seed oils,

78
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 4: He talks a lot about ultra processed foods. Synthetic dies, though,

79
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 4: are the area where we've seen the most change, the fastest,

80
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 4: and the most response from companies that are subject to

81
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 4: his regulations.

82
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 1: What does the research say, What kind of health effects

83
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: do synthetic dies and artificial dies actually have on consumers?

84
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 4: So there's no like slam dunk piece of evidence that

85
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 4: sort of says one way or the other synthetic food

86
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,719
Speaker 4: dies are really good or really bad. The FDA considers

87
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,680
Speaker 4: them safe, and the FDA has not revoked the regulation

88
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 4: authorizing the use of synthetic food dies. If you want to,

89
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 4: you could still put red forty in your product right now.

90
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,000
Speaker 4: There's some state laws you'd have to navigate in the

91
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 4: late two thousands, there is a UK study that showed

92
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 4: that there's some association with hyperactivity in children from synthetic dies.

93
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 4: In twenty ten, the EU said we're going to put

94
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,040
Speaker 4: a warning label on anything that has a synthetic food

95
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,039
Speaker 4: die in it. In twenty eleven, the USFDA did a

96
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 4: similar review. They said, we don't see any causal effect

97
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 4: between adverse behaviors and food dies. We don't see the

98
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 4: need to put a warning label on Although that was

99
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,240
Speaker 4: like a little more closely contested. About a decade later,

100
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 4: California reviewed the evidence and said, actually, we do think

101
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,720
Speaker 4: there's a link, and that evidence sort of got passed

102
00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 4: along the chain, and a couple of years later, Gavin

103
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,000
Speaker 4: Newsom signed a bill that prohibits the use of synthetic

104
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 4: food dies in schools. Beginning in twenty twenty eight.

105
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 1: About a fifth of products on American grocery store shelves

106
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: contain synthetic food dies in twenty twenty. That's according to

107
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 1: a study published by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

108
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:44,360
Speaker 1: this year.

109
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 4: That number's probably gone down since twenty twenty because companies

110
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 4: have like sort of started to since where the wind

111
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 4: is blowing and they've been trying to get rid of

112
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 4: them in their new products. But where they found them

113
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 4: most often sugary beverages, sugary treats, things often marketed at kids.

114
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,719
Speaker 3: You can do the math right.

115
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,279
Speaker 4: If something looks good, if something looks bright and exciting

116
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,720
Speaker 4: and colorful, you're going to be more likely to want

117
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,039
Speaker 4: to eat it, especially if you're like, you know, a

118
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 4: six year old at the Walmart with your dad looking

119
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:09,919
Speaker 4: at the cereal aisle.

120
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 1: That brings us back to Welches. Since two thousand and one,

121
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 1: a company called pim Brands has been making these fruit

122
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: snacks and licensing the Welsh name from the juice and

123
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:26,159
Speaker 1: jelly maker. Historically, the company's formula contains some artificial dyes

124
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,839
Speaker 1: in addition to the natural color that comes from the

125
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: fruit purese inside, but in twenty fifteen it started experimenting

126
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,839
Speaker 1: with reducing its dependency on synthetic dies, and last month

127
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,760
Speaker 1: it announced they'd be fully phased out of all its

128
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 1: fruit snack products by early twenty twenty six.

129
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 4: We are outside the pim Brands factory in Somerset, New Jersey,

130
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,359
Speaker 4: where they make Welsish fruit snacks.

131
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 5: We have nearly a million square feet dedicated to manufacturing, packaging,

132
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 5: and distributing Welsis fruit snacks, which go across North America.

133
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 5: Actually from this facility we also saw.

134
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 1: That's Michael Rosenberg, Pinbrands CEO who showed Will and Julia around.

135
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 4: It felt closer to like the Model T production line

136
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 4: than it did Willy Wonka. It's one of these office

137
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 4: parks that's sort of like you wouldn't know it exists

138
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 4: unless you had a reason to go to it. And

139
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,000
Speaker 4: you walk into this factory, it just sort of smells

140
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 4: like warm fruit. It smells like a.

141
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 3: Fruit snack in here.

142
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 4: Isn't like a like a pie, like a fruit pie.

143
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 4: Like I'm trying to figure out what this reminds me of.

144
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,920
Speaker 5: Well, so, because of the number of fruits in our product,

145
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 5: you don't smell any particular fruit. You just get this

146
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 5: incredibly fruit smelling aroma.

147
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 4: Just like a remarkable amount of movement in the factory.

148
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 4: I found. The fruit snacks themselves are going into the molds,

149
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 4: they're being shaken out, they're being transported across the factory

150
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 4: and like a conveyor belt set up. You know, massive

151
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 4: facility people you know, wearing their safety equipment, fruit snacks

152
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 4: going on all kinds of conveyor else enough little fruit

153
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 4: snack elevators and machines doling out packages and pouches. How much,

154
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,160
Speaker 4: generally speaking does it cost to build a facility like this?

155
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 5: Each production line costs between fifteen and twenty million dollars.

156
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 5: We have six production lines, and then of course you

157
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,040
Speaker 5: have all the packaging part. So there's a fortune in

158
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:21,640
Speaker 5: this building.

159
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: The factory can turn out over ten billion pouches of

160
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 1: fruit snacks a year. Will and Julia sat down with

161
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 1: the team responsible for Welch's fruit snacks pivot to natural

162
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 1: dies and they told them it's been a long road.

163
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 4: So this process, according to them, started in twenty fifteen,

164
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,480
Speaker 4: so a decade ago. They're chief officer of R and D.

165
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 4: She won noticed the products are made with real fruit.

166
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 4: So you know, part of the Welchi's fruit snacks, like

167
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,199
Speaker 4: the stick is you know, a strawberry fruit snack is

168
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 4: made with real strawberry pure So there's already a little

169
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 4: color from those fruits in there.

170
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,040
Speaker 6: It inheritently comes with some natural color. And we were

171
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 6: adding so many school amounts, so I was thinking, if

172
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,840
Speaker 6: he can introduce that, why not.

173
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: Bavna Romani that R and D director also noticed that

174
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 1: synthetic dyes were starting to lose favor internationally, so Bavna

175
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,720
Speaker 1: and her team started tinkering. They took it one color

176
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 1: at a time. First up yellow, the low hanging fruit,

177
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,720
Speaker 1: so to speak. She said, yellow was easier to swap

178
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,040
Speaker 1: out because there are lots of natural sources of the

179
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,320
Speaker 1: color and enough supply of those substitutes in the market.

180
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,320
Speaker 4: They're replaced some with turmeric and anato, and it was

181
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,400
Speaker 4: a relatively easy switch. Kraft mac and Cheese made a

182
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 4: very similar switch around that time.

183
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 1: Nato is a yellow coloring made from a tree seed,

184
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 1: but other colors were harder to match. Here's Bavna.

185
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,679
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, there was no true replacement for the blue because

186
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,240
Speaker 6: there are not too many blue fruits for vegetable, because

187
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 6: all natural colors are derived from real fruits and vegetable

188
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,280
Speaker 6: and in reality, if you go to the supermarket, it's

189
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,440
Speaker 6: not too many choices.

190
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 1: Don't replace that.

191
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 4: It's not just can we match the exact shade, it's

192
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,720
Speaker 4: can the shade last over time? Is the pH imbalance

193
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,079
Speaker 4: between the dye and the fruit period that's already in there.

194
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,559
Speaker 4: Is that going to make the fruit snack turned brown

195
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 4: over time.

196
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 1: For the blue color, they settled on spirillina, a type

197
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 1: of algae, and a fruit called tueto found in South

198
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: and Central America. Getting a new raspberry gummy to look

199
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,719
Speaker 1: and taste just like the old gummy so that unsuspecting

200
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,640
Speaker 1: eaters like me can't tell the difference took the R

201
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,319
Speaker 1: and D team close to fifty different trials to replace

202
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 1: red forty. They used ingredients like purple carrot and red grape,

203
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 1: and once they figured out the right combination of ingredients,

204
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,559
Speaker 1: they had to find a way to make the colors consistent.

205
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 6: Fruit grow in North America versus South America, it has

206
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,560
Speaker 6: a different taste, different color.

207
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,439
Speaker 4: They needed to find the suppliers natural eyes work with

208
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 4: the suppliers to make sure that when the food die

209
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,480
Speaker 4: is transported, like it's not getting any adverse impacts from

210
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 4: temperature changes in the supply chain. They needed to work

211
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 4: with them to stabilize the acidity of the food dies

212
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,599
Speaker 4: because it was interacting with the fruit that was in

213
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,720
Speaker 4: their fruit snacks, and like, you need to make sure

214
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 4: it doesn't just turn round in like three months, six months,

215
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 4: nine months, a year over the course of the full

216
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 4: shelf life.

217
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:24,040
Speaker 3: Of the product.

218
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:25,480
Speaker 4: You have to do R and D, you have to

219
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,160
Speaker 4: find the right people, you need to do the testing.

220
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 4: Things that cost money, and.

221
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,400
Speaker 1: It comes with risk, not just financial risk, but the

222
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,319
Speaker 1: risk of alienating customers. We get into that and how

223
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 1: other companies are trying to make similar changes after the break.

224
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 1: When it comes to swapping out synthetic dyes with natural dyes,

225
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 1: wel Jess Fruit Snacks was a little earlier to the party,

226
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 1: but now many other companies are starting to follow suit.

227
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 1: PepsiCo is the latest company to jump on the Maha bandwagon,

228
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 1: announcing plans to remove artificial colors and flavors. Craft is

229
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 1: announcing they will no longer be launching any products that

230
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,080
Speaker 1: have artificial die in the general mills, announcing it will

231
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,880
Speaker 1: remove artificial colors from its US cereals n K through

232
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,320
Speaker 1: twelfth school Foods by next summer.

233
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 3: A lot of what we've seen so far are commitments

234
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:27,160
Speaker 3: to do it.

235
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,440
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of those commitments. How quickly are

236
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: these companies saying that they'll do this.

237
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 4: So the timeline that most companies have given is by

238
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 4: the end of twenty twenty seven beginning of twenty twenty eight.

239
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 4: That's a specific date because beginning on January first, twenty

240
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 4: twenty eight, if you want to sell your product in

241
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,560
Speaker 4: West Virginia, you can't have synthetic dies in it. There

242
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,600
Speaker 4: are similar laws going into affecting the California schools Texas.

243
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 4: The feasibility is another question.

244
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,840
Speaker 1: Remember, for Welch's the changeover took a decade. It took

245
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 1: a full year just to test that the new colors

246
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,079
Speaker 1: wouldn't fade over the course of the product's shelf life.

247
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: But does that mean it will take a decade for

248
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,839
Speaker 1: everyone else to do it too. Maybe not Welches.

249
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 4: They have a more complex product than like a Scale

250
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 4: or a Starburst. There's the fruit in there, vitamins and

251
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 4: minerals and things like that. And also, you know, compared

252
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 4: to Mars or Hershey or Mandalize or a smaller company. Right,

253
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 4: no one is explicitly said as much to me, but

254
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,560
Speaker 4: like they don't have the same leverage that you know,

255
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,280
Speaker 4: a massive multinational might have to secure these food dies.

256
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 4: On the other hand, they've been working on this for

257
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,199
Speaker 4: ten years, they've been thinking about it for a long time.

258
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 3: The question is matching the shades.

259
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 4: Customers, you know, when they open a box of Welch's

260
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 4: fruit snacks or a box of M and ms or

261
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 4: you know, their cereal. They want to recognize the product

262
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:49,880
Speaker 4: that they know.

263
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot at stake when you start tinkering with

264
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 1: a classic recipe. General Mills learn that the hard way

265
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 1: when it tried this with Trick Cereal back in twenty sixteen, and.

266
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 3: Then the American consumer was appalled.

267
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,240
Speaker 4: The tricks did not look like the tricks that they

268
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 4: had grown to love, and they very quickly made the switchback.

269
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 1: Ten years later, the American consumer might be more comfortable

270
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: with this kind of change, and if they aren't already,

271
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: they could just get used to it.

272
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,240
Speaker 4: I talked with someone who runs one of these natural

273
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 4: eye companies, and something funny he said was Europeans when

274
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 4: they see that like bright synthetic red forty shade, they're like,

275
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 4: oh my god, there must be like something wrong with it.

276
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 4: It looks like it was made in a chemical plant.

277
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,280
Speaker 1: There are other reasons a larger corporation could have an

278
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 1: easier time than PIM did. Those companies may operate in

279
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 1: countries where they're already asked to put warning labels on

280
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 1: duyed products, or were they're not allowed to use synthetic dyes,

281
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 1: so they may have a head start on the replacement process.

282
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: How much of the motivation of these companies to rework

283
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 1: these formulas is part of kind of making the current

284
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: administration happy versus these broader globe forces.

285
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 4: It's a good question putting aside RFK, MAHA and sort

286
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 4: of the cultural lane it tapped into, Like there are

287
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 4: people who are interested in this, there are people who

288
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 4: don't want their kids to consume synthetic dies. What I

289
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 4: would say is that RFK is making a lot of

290
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 4: other asks right. There are seed oils, which are you know,

291
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 4: canola sun flower seed oil, things like that. He wants

292
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 4: those removed from the food supply. He would like things

293
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 4: to the effect of limits on how much sugar we

294
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 4: consume and the ultra process foods we consume. I can't

295
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 4: read the mind of these CEOs and the folks who

296
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,120
Speaker 4: are doing their public affairs. But objectively changing one or

297
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,200
Speaker 4: two ingredients where there's an existing replacement and in fact

298
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 4: it's already used internationally feels like a lighter lift than

299
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 4: making these more fundamental changes to how you fry your product,

300
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 4: how you consider your product process or ultra process, to

301
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 4: the amount of sugar in there right.

302
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 1: Well, that brings us to sort of a broader final question,

303
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 1: which is that the stated goal of these changes per

304
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 1: R is to make Americans healthier. Is there a significant

305
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: health benefit here or are these mostly aesthetic changes that

306
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: are easier to achieve.

307
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 3: It's a question I don't have a complete answer.

308
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 4: Yeah too, Yeah, there's some discourse on this because RFKS

309
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 4: took something of a victory lap when Kellogg's cut its.

310
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 3: Synthetic food dies.

311
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 4: Anytime a company cuts its synthetic food dies, he'll put

312
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 4: out a tweet and he'll say it's a MAHA win.

313
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 3: And the Kellogg's wone got picked up and.

314
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 4: It kind of sparked this broader conversation about you know,

315
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 4: if you're eating the French fries but they're made with

316
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,680
Speaker 4: beef tallow instead of being friend to seed oil, and

317
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 4: you're having the fruit loop still and they're still full

318
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,200
Speaker 4: of sugar, but like they don't have the red forty

319
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 4: in them, the question sort of becomes like how much

320
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 4: of an impact is this happening versus like how much

321
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 4: does this just sort of Maha being able to take

322
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 4: the win. The administration would contend that this is the

323
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 4: first change of many to come. They want to fundamentally

324
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 4: change the way we eat in this country. They're going

325
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 4: to try and make some pretty big changes to the

326
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,160
Speaker 4: dietary guidelines that are coming out later this summer. Where

327
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 4: the alternative take is the companies saw an easy place

328
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,639
Speaker 4: to score some points, and we'll see what happens with

329
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 4: the rest of the changes.

330
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,879
Speaker 1: This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

331
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 1: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access

332
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg

333
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,400
Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode,

334
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,840
Speaker 1: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever

335
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show.

336
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.