WEBVTT - Night of the Night Mouse 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:08.000 It's two forty two am in Miami, Florida, and you're 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:23.159 listening tonight call Hello, and welcome to night Call, the 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.239 podcasting Strange Days and Lonely Nights. I'm Molly Lambert in 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.400 Los Angeles, and with me is Test Lynch. And over 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:34.360 in New York we have Emily Orshida. Hi, guys, Hello, 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.960 got got a match a latte? Back in my zone awake, 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.040 a slightly more awake than last week. I agreeted Test 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.879 by saying like, I've had the perfect amount of coffee, 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.479 and she thought I was commenting on how much coffee 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.720 she appeared to have had, which is not the exactly 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.840 right about of coffee. It's a real victory when you 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:57.760 hit it, and then it's very easy to go over 0:00:57.760 --> 0:00:59.680 and under from there. I went over the line on 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.880 milk tea again the other day. I like, when will 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.120 you learn? I waited back in It's just it's too delicious. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.160 It's the problem. I need something like coffee that takes 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.720 a little longer to drink. Although very specific gripe, I 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:16.640 know the straws. The straws debate, um, the plastic straws 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.959 are bad. I have to say that paper straws. Paper 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:25.880 straws are the worst foible. It's like people are like, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.360 this is my Curb your Enthusiasm episode where like something 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.560 there's a mix up with a paper straw. But like, 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.040 I am a person who drinks to drink very slowly 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.120 and paper straws of ruined my ability to do that 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.600 because you have to get five minutes. You're gonna embrace 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:42.200 against the straw. I went out with my whole family, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.399 and it was like it was just so funny to 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.320 see people struggling with their straws, with their paper straws, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.080 like it's disintegrating in your mouth and get pulp and 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.600 like the liquid won't travel through. It's such a ridiculously 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.400 stupid so it's like a pixie stick. They're like they 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.160 just don't work very well. No, they're not very good 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:04.040 as straws. Uh turns out, but I think I might 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.000 get a metal straw because of this. I have a 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.079 reusable plastic straw. Refused to give up my straw. Yeah, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.400 what are the logistics of the reusable straw? Do you 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.800 carry it in your person? Gets filled with like question 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.480 and I use it home and then I have a 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.919 to go cup that it fits in so when I'm 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.320 going out, I put it in the cup and then 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.560 take it out. I did buy a reusable cup, like 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.280 a decent thermis. I'm trying to use more. I hate 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.280 drinking with my mouth regular without the accessory of a 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:43.480 strike straw. Love a straw called straws called straws. What 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.480 about bamboo though, I'm serious, is there is that just 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.240 as bad as plastic? Somehow seems like it's probably more 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.360 recyclable than plastic. I mean, the only with bamboo grows faster. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.720 It is a more renewable. It's renewable, and doesn't it 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.519 kind of it grows like in the shape of a straw. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:06.560 It's already be a straw, stand up, hemp straw, straw, 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.520 braided straw. Also, though, we should all raise ourselves if 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:15.320 you say anything even remotely against the complete banning of straws, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.320 Like if you're even dissing the paper straw, there's going 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.480 to be someone who's very well, it's just listen, I'll 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.040 take the hip for us. I think it's ridiculous. It's 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:24.800 one of these things. It's it's it's a it's a 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.959 it's a trees for the forest type of things. It's a. 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.400 It's targeting one thing and being like, look, we solved 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:36.280 this enormous I'm drinking from Gregory's coffee right now. I'm 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.040 calling Gregory's coffee out. They put it in two cups 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:40.839 because I guess they're out of sleep, So I've got 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.120 double the paper and then I've got a plastic glud 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:52.000 on top of it. That's ridiculous. Uh yeah, then when 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.200 make you sit down and use a washable cup and 0:03:54.320 --> 0:04:08.320 say enjoy your tea. Hey, folks, if you love true 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.640 stories about extraordinary life experiences, we think you'll love the 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.880 Risk podcast. Risk is the show where people tell true 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.719 stories they never thought they'd dare to share stories too 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.400 uncensored for public radio. On Risk, nothing's too intimate or 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.680 too strange, like the one about the guy who got 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.720 kidnapped by the drug cartel, or the girl who discovered 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:28.840 she was living with a cannibal, or the woman who 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.760 learned the person she was sharing kinky fantasies with online 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.599 was her dear old dad. You'll hear real people sharing 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.720 about life experiences so funny, so scary, so mystifying, you 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.440 won't believe your ears. Find it all at Risk show 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.960 dot com or just search on your podcast app for 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.640 risk that's r I s K, exclamation point or risk 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:59.080 hyphen show dot com. We are on a slow TV 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.720 kick right now. I feel like TV. We mean we 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.840 watch things to watch late TV, That's what I mean. 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.640 And then also like at your leisure, Yes, at your leisure, yeah, late. 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.279 Who's who's to say we're late? We're right on time 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.359 for us, We're on our Remember does does everyone remember 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.320 the NBC campaign if you haven't seen it, It's new 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.800 to you. Yes? What is that from the nineties when 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.560 they ran from summer ran reruns summer reruns That that 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:31.800 was the ad campaign was if you haven't seen it, 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.159 It's new to you, something I think about all the 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.599 time because it's true. It's also how all of my 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.320 jokes are that I try on people before doing them 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.640 on the podcast, or if someone is my friend but 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.800 doesn't listen to my podcast, I'm like, hey, this joke. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.600 I haven't heard this show Trade Secrets Um. We are 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:57.279 all watching American Crime Story The Assassination of Johnny versaci Um, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.360 which was on FX last year but is now on Netflix. 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.120 So uh, those of us uh slash all of us 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.040 who don't have cable can watch it at our leisure 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.520 on Netflix. I don't know. I was a big fan 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:16.960 of the first American We all loved the People Versus 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.240 o J. I think every episode of North Mollywood my 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.320 old podcast was about the People Versus OJA or the 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.440 ESPN six part oj documentary. Oh yeah, there was. I 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.320 mean that it's funny because it in some ways it 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.240 feels like it would be redundant to have both things 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.200 come out within a year, but they were so different, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.960 like they scratched different itches, and I think it's really 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.200 it remains hard to make the argument for People versus 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.960 o J as a piece of entertainment that's not pure 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.120 camp because I think that that's kind of how it 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.520 was announced, especially when they were just announcing who was 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.880 playing who, it was like, oh my god, like John 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.120 Travolta is going to be playing Robert sha Biro, that 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.479 kind of thing. Um, So that I think some of 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.320 that sort of overshadow, and like the whole Kardashian stuff 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.160 was a little wee key in it, but also great. Again, 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.160 I feel like that show was less camp than I 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:09.880 expected because I was very afraid about it because I 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.000 was like, Wow, what an interesting thing to do a 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.920 show about but also like Ryan Murphy not known for 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.800 his nuanced takes on racism, but then I didn't write it, 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:25.000 so it was pretty nuanced and good. And again I 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.760 think it's like if something is camp, but you play 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.320 it seriously enough, then it's like melodrama. And that's what 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.600 this show that we're going to talk about is all about. Well, 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.360 I skipped it the first when it first came out. 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.440 I have effects, but I didn't watch it because I 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.880 felt and also I think I had I had seen 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.440 the people versus O J. But then in the assassination 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.080 of Gianni Versati American Crime Stories, like it's official title, UM, 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.040 I think when the family was coming out and saying 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.960 how deeply hurtful it was, I was kind of like, um, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.320 I don't know if I can like go for this 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.960 because again, like you think it's going to be camp. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.800 This is based on Maureen Orth's book Vulgar Favors, which 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.680 I think the family had like denounced the you know 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.360 when it came out and said it was based on 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.880 speculation and gossip, and like I just kind of imagined 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:16.600 how it would feel pretty much. So it was Versagi's 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:21.080 family and Antonio Demiko, Um pretty much everyone who was 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.880 close to Versacey and then Andrew Cunanan's family also were 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.040 obviously very upset by it, and I think, um, two 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.760 of his siblings co wrote a book that was like 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.480 a more sympathetic version. I think I've heard, and I'm 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.640 not sure that this is verifiable, but someone in his 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.160 family said that he was like framed by the FBI 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:40.839 and that he was innocent. I think it may have 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:45.160 actually been his father, Modesto, But that was all after 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.600 I finished watching this and was like I need more, 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.280 And there was a threat on Reddit about it where 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.320 um it was like a distant family member of Andrew 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.160 kinnin In came on and was like answering questions about 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.240 how the family felt about the series and all that 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.640 kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean I went on the 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.080 jazz Abel podcast The Dirt Cast and talked about some 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:06.719 of this true crime stuff about like where do you 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.120 draw the line of like it being exploitative of actual humans? 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.080 It is exploitative, Well, the question is united can it 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.439 stand on its own? I feel like the question is 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.520 also like does it have something to say besides just 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.319 like some gratuitous violence like the Ted Bundy one. To 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.280 me is just like too depressing. And that's where I 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.520 draw the line. I'm like, are we just here to 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.800 gauc at the murdering? You're here to actually have some hindsight, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.120 have the ability to have the hindsight. And I think 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.600 what Emily said, think about it. Yeah, what Emily said 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.320 about the o J Show and other things is like, 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.800 what makes the o J Show or the o J 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.840 Case in general interesting is that it's like not just 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.760 about a murderer. It's about like a murderer, and it's 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.520 about like systematic racism and policing and the world the 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.439 murder takes place, yeah, and the world and like this 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.560 rich yeah, a bunch of different. It's about Los Angeles obviously. 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:01.839 Also so this murder the Versaci show is about also 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.920 about class very intensely. Uh, But it's also about homophobia 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.280 and policing, and that is what makes it sort of 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:13.720 more than just like, uh a lionization of a serial killer. Completely. Yeah, 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.480 I mean I that was definitely like some of the 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.720 more kind of redeeming moments. I loved it. I super 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.920 loved it with no reservations. But you know, I think 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.640 the only reason that I could feel like it wasn't 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.040 just exploitation was because it did have kind of like 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.640 broader themes than you would get just from a sort 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.319 of straight telling of it. Can I make a request 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.560 right up top? I am not finished it. No spoilers 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:43.160 have so I've gotten basically through the second Finn wit 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.520 Rack episode, the one about Jeff Trail, who was um 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:52.280 Andrew Canyanion's first victim. I believe. I've been also like 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.960 very hesitantly googling, even though it feels so stupid because 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:56.720 it's like on the it's a matter of public record 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.000 and it's all out there. But I'm like, I don't 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:03.439 want to know what happens. Like it's very suspenseful, and yeah, 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.120 we're saying like it's difficult to be as a show 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.880 because it makes you feel kind of terrible and like 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:13.240 full yeah and anxiety. But the interesting thing is, as 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:14.959 far as I can tell, is that I have now 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.280 gotten through all the episodes with murders in them, which 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.120 I feel like it's a very interesting dramatic structure for 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.400 this show to topload it with the murders because of 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.600 the nature of it's going backwards and time structure, and 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.720 so you get all that stuff first, but you still 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.160 have a ton of questions about what happened and who 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.800 this guy is and why this happened. So then that's 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.600 what it. That's the actual climax is Like, that's funny 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.280 you say that too, because I'm like, oh, the top 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.680 loading with Murders is like psycho and he's giving such 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.839 a like Anthony Perkins and Psycho energy where you're like, oh, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.560 this person is like a sociopath, but like for some 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.560 reason they have this like you feel sad for them. Yeah, yeah, no, no, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.640 tote really. I mean I think Darren Chris is doing 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.880 a very good job and he's amazing, which not everyone 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.760 used to give him such a hard time when he 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.880 was Somebody said something really smart on my Twitter where 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.200 they were just like, oh, it's like somebody saw the 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.600 sort of like polished thing he was selling on Glee 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.960 and was like, let's lean into how that could possibly be, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.160 which you could probably do for every single cast member 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.679 on Glee. Yeah, any of them is anyone with a 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:32.480 theater energy. There are some great performances in this show 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:39.680 from the most random assortment of people, like yeah, Max Schmidt, 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.839 Schmidt fucking steals the show. I have never seen him 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:45.880 so against type and he was. It was such a 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.760 like forever to identify him. No, if you don't know 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.520 it's coming, because like I didn't know who was in 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.880 the show. Yeah, you're just like who is this amazing actor? 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.080 And then you're like, holy shit screen Field. Um he 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:02.640 plays a meth head hustler. But he um they like 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.000 make friends when when when Andrews like hold up in 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:11.800 this beach side motel before and after killing VERSACEI um, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:16.480 Judith Light was so amazing as Marylyn Midland. Yeah, and 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.559 who knew I mean people knew Marylyn maghlan is interesting. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.880 If you've ever seen her on the home shopping network, Um, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.440 she's still on it. She I'm not sure she still is, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.440 but she was for a while after I had never 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.520 heard of her. And that is a whole interesting plot. Yeah, 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.280 I mean it just made me find out that I 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.760 knew nothing about this story. Actually. Well also her so 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.440 like Lee Migland's estate, I think like vehemently denies any 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.080 kind of relationship that um he may have had with 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.720 Andrew Cunanan that was put forth in Earth's book. And 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.040 so that's like another kind of yeah family that's like 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:56.360 not right without without spoiling anything. Like what is interesting 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.200 about this show is that it sort of deals with 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.559 this like under world of you know, stuff that people 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.200 don't want made public, uh, closeted people, and that he 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.000 sort of took advantage of this by being like a 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.559 hustler among people that he could then you know blackmail 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.440 or well. I was like, I haven't watched it all 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.320 the way at the end, but the feeling I'm getting 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.360 from this first half of episodes and he's kind of 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.680 like this boogeyman of gay shame in a way, like 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.560 because he the position that he has and you know, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.480 kind of moving in and out of people's lives and 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.400 sort of especially closeted people, like kind of sort of 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.480 taking advantage but also like fulfilling a need and um 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:44.320 in a way kind of disrupts a lot of people's lives. 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.720 Like it's kind of different for everybody, and UM, I 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.280 just think it's super interesting. Like in this one, it 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.800 is interesting because so far he's such a cipher canyan 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.000 is UM, but everybody else is kind of really fleshed 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.880 out to the degree that they can be. In one episode, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.760 the episode that where he passes through their life and 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.280 you kind of see all these different shades of this 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:11.040 guy kind of um yeah being Yeah, I I Boogeyman 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:12.680 is like the only one I could think of to 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.640 like character, very talented Mr Ripley. Also, Yeah, just generally 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.640 it's this idea. It's about class also in this idea 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.840 of like people being feeling entitled to a certain lifestyle 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.960 and then being just like ruthless sociopaths to get there. Yeah, 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.000 there's something about him where he cleared like a talented Mr. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.800 Ripley type character. He just hates himself so much that 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.200 like the only way he can accept himselves is by 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.600 like being having some kind of proximity to power or 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.840 you know, a higher economic class or something like that, 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.960 or like some level of security that other people have. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.280 I was watching and I was like, you know, in 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.400 some ways, sociopaths or this kind of person, they're like 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.240 a one person cult. Like the way that they kind 0:15:54.240 --> 0:16:00.000 of prey on somebody else's insecurities. It felt very uh yeah, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.880 it was really interesting. Also, they featured religion in really 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:04.800 interesting ways. And Emily, I don't know if you got 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.280 this far, but um, there were there was like an 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.960 altar in yeah, yeah, and Lee Megan's house that's super interesting. Also, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.840 we should maybe even talk about this again. But um, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.080 the penultimate episode, I think where they kind of go 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:25.280 into Andrew's relationship with his dad is a really I 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.280 know everybody is like, just wait till you get to 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.200 the dad episode. It's just it's it's like it has 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.360 all the strengths of the show, which is that it's 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.800 like it's basically an anthology show inside an anthology. It's 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.720 like each episode is a different episode in his life 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.200 that tells you something about him, um, and usually brings 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:49.000 some actor that you're like, wow, who is that? Yep? Oh. Also, 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.200 I have to say that, like I had never seen 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.960 the woman who played his like former best friend Lizzy 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.840 who Um, if you followed what you know, if you 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.560 followed the assassination and you may have seen her. She 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.080 had like a televised plea for him to turn himself 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.040 in that was right around when he committed suicide. No 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:17.240 spoiler alert. But she was so good. It's Annalie Ashford 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.399 and I've never seen her before. She she's like a 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.680 Broadway person. She was really fantastic. But it's interesting because 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.080 watching the whole thing, there's really only one person who 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.840 was always like who was never wronged by him and 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:32.840 who always was kind of loyal to him, and that's 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.280 her um, And their whole relationship is explored in like 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.480 bits and pieces, but she doesn't get her whole episode. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.360 And she knew him. I think Wikipedia said that they 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.879 met in junior high and then we're friends for a 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.399 long time. That's different from how the move or how 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.280 the mini series portrays it, but um, I don't know. 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.119 It was interesting to me because I was like, what's 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.199 her deal? That he never targeted her and she seemed 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.760 to have like no clue what was going on. Everyone 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.480 else seemed kind of aware. We gotta help one person 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.919 in the cult with you. I guess he was the 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.480 godfather to her kids. Yeah what what spot We're going 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.560 back to the true crime thing, Molly. Like the fact 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.000 we're all like spoilers, like, you know, for a real 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.720 life event. Yeah, I feel like that's the one kind 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.159 of tricky thing to do is just like, no matter 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:27.119 how smartly or kind of incisively are able to dramatize 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.199 a real life tragedy or series of tragic events, you 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.880 do like you just by putting a plot on it, 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.360 like suddenly it becomes a thing of like like yeah, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.800 spoilers or or it like it becomes a commodity for 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.560 your or anything that's like a real life story. I've 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.320 been talking about like the Oscars or last night and 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.560 had a lot of those, a lot of oh you 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.360 guys want my hot take about real life stories. Real 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.280 life stories are the franchise for people who think they 0:18:55.320 --> 0:19:03.440 don't like franchise, totally agree with things cannot get greenlit 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.160 that are like purit fiction and nata um uh part 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.200 of a franchise, like can you just do the Fargo 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.760 where you pretend it's based on real events, although actually 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.240 Fargo is based on a real incident where somebody puts 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:19.560 somebody in a woodchipper, very loosely based. I found it's 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.080 like the first episode of Forensic Files. It's like some 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:27.280 famous Midwestern I think murderer were somebody put their wife 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.600 in a woodchipper, so he used that as his cue 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:34.600 for like the herald. Uh yeah, And it was the 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.159 same thing of like they saw they saw the blood 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:41.480 in the snow, and that was how people figured it out. Um. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.280 Also I read that so Donna tell of or saw 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.119 she had kind of she I think she kind of 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.640 stood with the family and saying like this is bullshit, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:58.320 like this movie shouldn't be made whatever. But my bro, Johnny, 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.320 I've been doing my my Cruise as Donna Teller around 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.040 my house and she's great. She's so good and also interesting. 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.200 Is that so? Yeah? Donna Tella didn't like the movie. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.280 But then Penelope Cruz is like friendly with Donna Tella 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.159 and was like, is it okay if I play you? 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.320 And she was like oh sure, and then and maintained 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.639 like no, no, no on this movie. And then I 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.119 guess like when Penelope Cruise was at the Golden Globes 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.520 that year, Donna Tella center a bouquet that said good 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:31.960 luck because of course it's who doesn't want it very flatter? Yeah, yeah, 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.560 they do portray her flattering. I think that was a 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.360 very like orchestrated decision there. I also could not at 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.200 the time believe that it was not going to be 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.240 Lady Gaga because she had just done American Story and 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.199 want to Emmy for it on our way to the 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:51.040 egot any moment now um, and it was just so 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.359 so obvious that she should play Donna Telliver Sacci, and 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:55.480 then she didn't do it because I think Donna Tella 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.320 would have been like, no, well, there they're buddies. Though, 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.159 Like I feel like it was around art pop or something, 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.800 because she has a song got Yeah called Donna Tella. 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.920 I think, well, I do think that her performances Donna 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.160 Tella would have been like a little more art can't 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.040 be than Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, they quiet dignity. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.720 She got an oscar. It's fine, that's true. I also 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:26.280 love the Maya Rudolph Donna Tellah. That's all I was 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:31.440 thinking give out. And I feel like Donna Tella must 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:36.560 love that too, because it immortalized her further. Well again 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.879 without spoiling anything about the show, but again talking about 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.280 like the themes of the show being kind of like 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.520 class and striving and all this stuff, and they talk 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.960 about the Versace siblings also, maybe I'm just like I 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.679 love the Versace siblings because they're siblings who work together 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:59.359 in Santo even talk. Yeah, for a while, I was like, oh, 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.439 that must be Donna Tella is like significant others. Let 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:07.119 us now praise Ricky Martin. Oh, yeah, he's so amazing. 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:12.280 I love how like there's genuinely a sweet love story 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:14.359 between them in the middle of all this It doesn't 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.600 feel like it's just shoehorned in to be manipulative. For sure. 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:21.200 It's like a complex, like years spanning relationship between them 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.240 that I feel like. It's really smartly played and so good. 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.600 The reason it works is because it has so much 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.320 sympathy and empathy for all the victims, you know, like, 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.160 you don't come out of it like team Andrew Kunanan. 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:33.840 You come out of it like this is such a 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.400 fucked up, complicated situation and the police sucked it up 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.399 so bad, much like the O J Show. You know 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.760 You're like the Lee Meiglan episode I have to say 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:47.600 was particularly difficult for me to watch. Yeah, it was 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:51.919 a really tough watch, especially considering how the family felt 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.520 about his death and like the circumstances. It's so intense 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.639 and yet at the same time there's this layer of like, wow, 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.320 older actress Judith Light is getting this roll of a 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.080