1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Baritune Day Thurston and this is how to 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: citizen with Baritune Day. In season two, we're talking about 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: the money, because, to be real, it's hard to citizen 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: when we can barely pay the bills. You've been learning 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: a lot about my childhood during this season, and that's 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: because childhood is where I first encountered some of the 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: ideas we've been talking about, ideas about the economy. I 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: didn't learn about all this stuff for the very first 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: time in some college course. Now it's it's through a 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: neighborhood shop that I remember. It's through a person that 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: I knew. It's through an interaction or an experience. And 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: that's true for most of us about most of the 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: ideas that we ever think about as adults. Childhoods where 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: it started. And that is so true for me with 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: the idea of a co op. My mother was a hippie. 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: She was a proud mama. She had a big afro 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: at times, she rocked her cowboy boots and loved her 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: NPR and she wore tie dye every chance she could get. 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: She was a little bit different from the other moms 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 1: on the block, and she was really into healthy food, 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: I remember going to the co op with my mother 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: for health food because I guess the grocery store at 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: the end of the block didn't have healthy foods, and 24 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: the co op was just different. There was a lot 25 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: of granola, making it almost literally a crunchy place, and 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: they had alternatives to everything I knew I loved like 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: I loved cheerios, and they had odeos. I loved chocolate 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: glaze donuts, and they had carib covered doughnuts, and I 29 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 1: didn't love that because that wasn't a chocolate glaze donut 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: and what even is a carrob I also blame co 31 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: ops for bringing grape nuts into my life because that's 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: not even food. That's more like a gravel situation, and 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: grape nuts with skim milk is a c The co 34 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: op to me was this tied I tote bag, largely 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: white place miles away from home where we went to 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: get special food. But now I'm learning there's a lot 37 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: more to co ops. See as I've grown up, I've 38 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: learned that co ops are more than what I remember 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: from my childhood. And when you talk about the class 40 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: of folks known as the working poor who can never 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: get ahead because of extractive business models, cooperatives become more 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: of an economic answer than the patruli soaked lifestyle I 43 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: was used to as a kid. Today's guest shows that 44 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: co ops might not be what you think they are either. 45 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: Jamila Medley is an East Brooklyn native who, at the 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: time we spoke was the executive director of the Philadelphia 47 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: Area Cooperative Alliance. PACA is a co op of co 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: ops building economic power in the Philly community and breaking 49 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: all kinds of myths about what co ops are and 50 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: who Therefore, co ops are basically a version of economic democracy. 51 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: H Jamila, thank you so much for joining. How are you. 52 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing well, Thanks for having me, Thank you for 53 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: agreeing to sit with me and with us. And I 54 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: want to start with you introducing yourself. My name is 55 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: Jamila Medley. I'm executive director of the Philadelphia Area co 56 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: Operative Alliance, otherwise known as PACA PACA. I was like, 57 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: I was so glad you said it, because I'm like, 58 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: as a PACA, is it? Paca? Tell me something about 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: yourself that might not be in an online bio, something 60 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know. Dang, this is a 61 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: big one. I can wrap the books of the Bible. 62 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you need to tell me a little bit 63 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: more about this, so as I meagine, I'm from Brooklyn 64 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: and I went to Saint Paul's Community Baptist Church growing 65 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: up where the steam Johnny Ray young Blood was pastor 66 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: minister of music Eli Wilson, and we did things in 67 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: children's choir like learn how to wrap the books of 68 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: the Bible. And it has never left my mind. It's 69 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: pretty dope. I mean, I'm not gonna do it. You 70 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: know what's next? Care? I mean, show, don't tell what's uh, 71 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: give me a little taste. All right, Listen, everybody, as 72 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: we talked to you about the books of the Bible, 73 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: the older than new. There are sixty six books if 74 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: you take a long look, thirty nine and an old 75 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: and a new. Pay attention. Tell you what we're gonna do. 76 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: We're gonna rock to you thought the books that unfold. 77 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna stop because I don't forgot that is 78 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: a special, special skill. That is a spectacular answer. I 79 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: did not see that coming. Thank you so much, um so, So, 80 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: tell me more about growing up in Brooklyn. Describe your 81 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: neighborhood and what the community felt like to you as 82 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: a kid. Sure So grew up by East New York, 83 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: last stop on the Number three train. Do a lots 84 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: of Avenue, East New York at that time and still 85 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: is known as a struggling um neighborhood. It was, it 86 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: was the hoodood. Give me some sense of timing of 87 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: years that you're talking about in terms of your childhood there. 88 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: Sure So, I was born in seventies seven, so I'm 89 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: talking about the eighties nineties and East York had crack, 90 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: had prostitution, and had murder. It's got a documentary about 91 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: the worst police district in New York City. That I 92 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: mean the government literally sent anything that they considered unworthy 93 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: of a good life to East New York, institutionalizing people, um, 94 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: throwing throwing away humans. It was a poor and working 95 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: class neighborhood. My grandparents had moved there in the nineteen 96 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: sixties um, one of the first black families to move 97 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: into a new high rise apartment when the neighborhood was 98 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: still white. From where from where did they move? They 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: moved from Brownsville. So this was their Jefferson story of 100 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: moving up from the projects into this newly constructed apartment 101 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: high rise and uh subsequently white flight ensued, and the 102 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: narrative of disinvestment, as is very typical in communities like this, 103 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: came to be. But um, I think one of the 104 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 1: unfortunate realities is that beauty and joy aren't always um 105 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: the stories that come out of this kind of neighborhood. 106 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: But my family was there for three generations living. You know, 107 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: my grandparents, I don't know, we're in that apartment. I 108 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: grew up in that apartment. My mom grew up in 109 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: that apartment. My first daughter was born. She had years 110 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: in that apartment. And uh, the church that I went 111 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: to had a school, and went to the school there 112 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: second to sixth grade. I was nurtured and loved by 113 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: black women educators who affirmed my blackness, my womanness, my girlhood, 114 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: so that by the time I was ready to go 115 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: into middle school and really leave my neighborhood in that 116 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: kind of like all black life for the first time, 117 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: I was well prepared and uh, coming up again. I 118 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: went to a Quaker school, um middle school through high 119 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: school Brooklyn Friends School, but I was affirmed, so we 120 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: share a decent amount of biography. Um. I went to 121 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: a very local community public school through sixth grade and 122 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: then starting in seventh grade a friends School. Yeah, I 123 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: grew up in Washington, d c uh in, you know, 124 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: those same years, and I went to the Sidwall Friends 125 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: School from seventh through twelfth grade. And I was also 126 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: nurtured and loved and had a lot of joy. Um, 127 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: what did your church community look and feel like during 128 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: this childhood because it sounds like the church was a 129 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: big part of your experience of community. Yeah, I was 130 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: probably in first second grade when we started going there. 131 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: I went to church school, I did karate, I did 132 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: dance classes, I took piano lessons, we had Sunday school, 133 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: Bible school, summer camp. Everything was there. It was the 134 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: entire community, and it was a church that also kind 135 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: of I think understood it's it's social and political relevance 136 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood like that, and really thinking about ways 137 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: of creating community pride and self determination through the congregation 138 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: that really resonates. Like when I started working at co Ops, 139 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, shoot, this was like a whole 140 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: thing happening when I was a kid around what has 141 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: always historically been true, and I think the Black American 142 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: tradition of how black folks have practiced mutual aid and 143 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: cooperative economics, right, and that the church has often been 144 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: a central place where people congregate to to build wealth, 145 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: to share their wealth, to create community good. And it 146 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: begs the question what's a co op? And where do 147 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: you see in your childhood some semblance of cooperatives? So 148 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: a co op has two components. One is the association 149 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: of people who come together. They identified that they have 150 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: a shared need economic, social, cultural, and they determine that 151 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: they want to democratically own an enterprise together, and so 152 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: they create that business to fulfill the need that they have. 153 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: And that's the simple version of what a co op 154 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: is in the sense that is the association of people. 155 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: Democracy is in the at all in the enterprise is 156 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: holding it all together. I'm not gonna say that my 157 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: church was democratically organized. I don't know that that was true, 158 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: but there was definitely an association of people who were 159 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: organized um within their religious community, also having an understanding 160 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: of their political power. I think the biggest thing that 161 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: I remember seeing is like the creation of near Mayah houses, right. 162 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: So it's this entire housing development that congregations throughout Brooklyn 163 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: organized to bring resources from you know, minicipal funds with 164 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: their church, community and other investment strategies to create new homes. 165 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: This was a struggle, This was organizing. This was the 166 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: success of an association of people coming together to meet 167 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: their needs. How did what you experience as a child 168 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: with this community level of organizing affect your later work 169 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: and your educational path? So I think there's this continuity 170 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: of values that I've always been grounded in. Everyone is 171 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: worthy inherently, we all deserve good to happen. I think 172 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: I understood having to work hard, you needed to serve, 173 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: you had to help others, You had to find a 174 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: way to to give back, to contribute to make something better. 175 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: And then in school, when I was in middle one 176 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: high school, I think there was a lot of that 177 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: kind of activity just in terms of like taking care 178 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: of our own neighborhood. And like you know, there was 179 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: really Cede Park right behind where my high school was. 180 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna tell you in the nineteen nineties, Brooklyn 181 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: Friends was the Ratchet Independent Friends School. Um, I'm gonna 182 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: leave it at that, but Ratchet Independent Friends School. I 183 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: never heard those words ratchet rage. Yes, it was the 184 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: Megan d Stallion of fend schools. But we had to 185 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: go to that park, right, But there were people who 186 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: um use drugs there, people who um were in gauging 187 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,239 Speaker 1: in solicited sexual encounters in that park, and we found 188 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: their refuse and we cleaned it up as a part 189 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: of our Earth Day experience. Right, It's just like, this 190 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: is our community, this is our responsibility. Um So, I 191 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: think those threats certainly carried, you know, into my work 192 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: of really just seeing the power of collaboration and people 193 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: coming together and people caring about each other, and just 194 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: like ultimately just really believing fundamentally that everybody has light, 195 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: right that we should be seeking that in one another, 196 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: and when we do, it makes it easier to work together. 197 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: That's all. Just that's total life summation. That's perfect. I 198 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: think that the Quakers would be proud we brought you 199 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: to Philadelphia. Well, my first job here was in a 200 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: cancer research organization based in Philly, and after that I 201 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: went to grad school. And upon completing grad school, I 202 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: realized I can't keep not working. This isn't going to 203 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: be a good story for too long for my husband 204 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: if I don't use this degree of how and so 205 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: I found a membership coordinator rule actually at Mariposa Food 206 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: Co op and I got hired to be the membership 207 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: coordinator there and so that was a realm in And 208 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: that was my first exposure to co ops formally. So 209 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: I have an image of co ops from my childhood 210 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: of going up to the co op into Coma Park, 211 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: Maryland Food co Op had a certain smell to it, 212 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: you know, I describe it as earthy. Made me think 213 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: of that scene from Broad City. I'm sorry, but are 214 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: you breastfeeding? The power of co op produce has made 215 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: me fertile into my fifties. Beyond it so amazing. So, 216 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: so what was it like for you working at the 217 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: Mariposa Food co Op And is it anything like my experience? Yes? 218 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: Very earthy, Yes, I mean it was. It was my 219 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: first adult experience really being around radicalized white people. What 220 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: made them radical? They are? I've worked with a bunch 221 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: of anarchists and socialists and people who you know, had 222 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: very far left leaning politics, had very unconventional, you know, 223 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: ways of of living their lives that were in my 224 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: perspective at that time, I was like, oh my gosh, 225 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: you are like the freest people I've ever encountered. How 226 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: did that express itself? What does that look like? You know, 227 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: it showed up. I also came from I think my 228 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: church that I grew up in. I think in many 229 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: ways in that era was about respectability. Right. So it's 230 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: like the best thing that you could do is find 231 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: a corporate job, right, And where for me as a woman, 232 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: put some stockings on, don't wear red and like, you know, 233 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: do your thing, don't show as much as you can 234 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: how black you are. Just make your money, get your success. 235 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: Being in this food co op world was the antithesis 236 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: of everything I had learned was true to have a 237 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: good life, right, that you had to button up, that 238 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: you had to conform, that you had to invisibilize yourself 239 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: to some degree. So when I got to the food 240 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: co op, it was, you know, the first community where 241 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: I personally met trans folks and had trans car workers, 242 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: and I learned about pronouns, and I learned about just 243 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: like a lot of things. You know, people just wore 244 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: t shirts and jeans and ripped up clothes and had 245 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: piercings and tattoos and all kinds of colored hair. And 246 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: for me it was just like it was great, but 247 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: it was also work, and I was not familiar with 248 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: seeing those expressions of one's humanity being okay in the 249 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: work environment. Um So that was a real shift for me, 250 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: I think, in being able to understand that, oh, there 251 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: there are other ways, and people have found them. What 252 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: did that discovery feel like for you? In many ways, 253 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: it was somewhat liberating from me because I had the 254 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to experiment. So there was a lot of opportunity 255 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: for creativity and really just like making our way, creating 256 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: new things to make this grocery store a success, and 257 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: so I really loved that aspect of it. I think 258 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: one of the challenges of the space, though, that I experienced, 259 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: was I wasn't as free as some of those people 260 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: were because I was still a black woman and most 261 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: of my co workers were white folks who I think 262 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: we're just able to show up as fully as they 263 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: wanted to. But I think there were a lot of 264 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: experiences that that time for black women that we could 265 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: not show up as fully as ourselves without appearing threatening, 266 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: without appearing too upset, if we were too loud, to ratchet, 267 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: too angry, too emotional. It all just kind of like 268 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: came back to to kind of haunt you. So I 269 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: also learned in that space that radicalized white people are 270 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: also very racist sometimes without even knowing it, and that 271 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: there's this duality and just like this work, right, I 272 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: thought that maybe I had found like my anti racist 273 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: home and like my place and belonging, But I also 274 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: realized there was still a lot of work to do 275 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: in that space, and it was also a space where 276 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: my radicalization was starting to show up in terms of 277 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: who I wanted to be and how I wanted to 278 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: engage in blackness as a result of that that workplace experience, 279 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: what was the experience, you know, what was the behavior 280 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: or the words of the radicalized white co workers that 281 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: put you in a place where you felt like you 282 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: had to manage how you showed up. Oh now, I'm 283 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: just putting these people's business all out here in these streets. 284 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: But I think we understand that this is a time 285 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: when we talk about these things. But I think one 286 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: of the struggles in that community, prior to my coming there, 287 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: there had been other black women that that worked there 288 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: and that we're working there when I worked there, But 289 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: I think when there were conflicts between those women and 290 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: other white folks, sometimes there was a way in which 291 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: black women were pushed out from the organization I think 292 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: often rooted in conflicts, right, and that you just showed 293 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: up a little bit too loud and self expressing, dear 294 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: black of lady, for the comfortability of these white folks 295 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: who now see that part of you and maybe don't 296 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: feel as safe as they used to. They don't want 297 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: to ever see that side of you again. Right, So 298 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: so there's this this tension me while like white folks 299 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: was yelling and could cry and emote and do all 300 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: the things that they needed to do to express themselves, 301 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: but there wasn't an acceptance I think, for for black 302 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: women to be able to show up in the same vein. 303 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: And I saw that happen to other people, and so 304 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: I became very aware about how I needed to present 305 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: in order for that not to happen to me. Mariposa 306 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: Food co Op is historically, you know, one of the 307 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: food co ops that is gotten it right in so 308 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: many instances. Right. So the institution, I think, in many ways, 309 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: is at the forefront of trying to navigate some of 310 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: the harms that structural racism can perpetuate in any business. 311 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: I think the opportunity is that there's more accountability in 312 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: those places to address that stuff right, and to expect 313 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: better and to expect more from how our white allies 314 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: in those spaces, they're going to show up. After the break, 315 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: Jamila goes all in on the world of co ops. 316 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: So you're the executive director of PACA. How did you 317 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: first come to have a role um at this cooperative 318 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: of cooperatives? So PACAB was actually being founded around the 319 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: same time when I started working at Mariposa. The first 320 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: group of people have started talking about, you know, answering 321 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: this question of you know, there's a lot of mature 322 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: cooperatives in the Philadelphia region. There's food co ops, housing 323 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: co ops, credit unions, energy co ops, work or co ops. 324 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: We got a lot of co ops here, but they 325 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: don't really do a lot together. What would happen if 326 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: there was a way to organize the co ops sector 327 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: to help grow the co operative economy? So what would 328 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: happen if cooperatives cooperated? Yes, So that became a launching 329 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: pad for you know, a number of activities that invited 330 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: co operators to come together to to muse and to 331 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: think about what this this new organization could be. So 332 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: I decided to go to one of those convenings and 333 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: they were looking for volunteers, and I thought that I 334 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: should volunteer because I didn't know anything about co ops 335 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: and my job was to recruit people to join the 336 00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: co op. So SA's like, let me go over here 337 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: and see what I could learn. Um, I learned so much. 338 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: I learned about an entire economy, an entire what some 339 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: people would identify as a lifestyle. I learned about a 340 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: network of activity and effort that I had no idea 341 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: what was happening. And I stayed involved with PACK as 342 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: a volunteer on their steering committee, and then as the 343 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: organization formalized and became a nonprofit organization, I got elected 344 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: to serve on paca's board and then by team. When 345 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: our first executive director was ready to UM step down, 346 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: I was invited to be his replacement, and I said yes, 347 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: And you lived happily ever after, and that was it. 348 00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: What is the Philadelphia Area Cooperative Alliance so pacas a 349 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 1: nonprofit and a co op of co ops, and we 350 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: aim to improve the cooperative economy in our region by 351 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: providing education and training, providing direct technical assistance to groups 352 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: of people forming co ops, and to uplift opportunities to 353 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: promote co ops through advocacy and political engagement. And when 354 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: I when any of us thinks about what a business is, 355 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: we are taught that businesses seek to maximize profits, that 356 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: businesses are designed to maximize shareholder value, even in the 357 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: in the current incarnation that we are a capitalist society. 358 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: So what is a co op business? How is it 359 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: operating differently from UH and off the shelf capitalist business? Okay? 360 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: Can I make a caveat before I answer that question? 361 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: Co ops can be co opted by capitalism to the 362 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: plot thickens. Okay, So cooperatives are an economic tool, right, 363 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: people can have a lot of different motives for why 364 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: they want to use it. So I think you know, 365 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: from the vantage point that I have and the motivations 366 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: that PACA and others in our networks have for four 367 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: cooperative businesses, is that we believe that, you know, we 368 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: should prioritize people and planet over profit. We believe that 369 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: people have a right to self determination, including in how 370 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: wealth is accumulated and distributed within their communities. We believe 371 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: that people deserve and have the right to own assets 372 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: in their own communities. Right. And I think this broader 373 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: sense that in incooperatively owned businesses. A distinguishing factor of 374 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: it from traditional businesses is democracy, right, and there are 375 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: a lot of different ways in which businesses can practice democracy, 376 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: but the difference in in co ops is that if 377 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: you're an owner, you have one vote. Everybody has one 378 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: vote as an owner in a co op. So when 379 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: it's time to make these important decisions for how this 380 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: co op business is going to move forward. Are we 381 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: going to expand, are we going to up close? Are 382 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: we going to hire more people? Whatever the decision points 383 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: are that the owners need to come together. Each owner 384 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: has one vote. There isn't a fifty one percent owner 385 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: who gets to wield the power because they have that 386 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 1: extra ownership stake. And this is true even as co 387 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: op owners might have different equity stakes, right, So people 388 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: can invest different amounts of money into their coop, but 389 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: the vote stays the same. One member, one vote. What 390 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: do you think the benefits are two people for participating 391 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: in a cooperative business model. I think you can think 392 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: about it from the individual level and from the community level. 393 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: So as an individual, if you're a member owner or 394 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: an owner of a co op, there's a financial benefit 395 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: that you can get um you're an owner, so if 396 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: the company is doing While the business is doing well, 397 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: you get to eat, you get a diffidend, you get 398 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: patronage rebate, you get some money back on your return. 399 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: It's also true that if it's not doing so great, 400 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: you absorb the risk along with your fellow co owners. 401 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: I think co ops often offer community. They offer a 402 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: place where you can find people who have the same 403 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: need that you do and work together to try to 404 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: fulfill that. Co Ops bring potentially wealth into communities. They're 405 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: locally owned, so they're not some distant you know, there's 406 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,479 Speaker 1: not a distant owner out there somewhere trying to figure 407 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: out when to cut out and sell the business right 408 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: when they can make enough money, so the dollars tend 409 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: to circulate in the community for a longer period of time. 410 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: Co Ops tend to provide better working environments for UM 411 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: employees UM because in many of in worker co ops, 412 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: for example, people are actually controlling and owning their own labor, 413 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: so they can, you know, collectively decide what hours they're 414 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: gonna work, how much they're gonna pay each other or themselves. 415 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: And you know, even during a time like this where 416 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: we have this financial crisis, cooperatives have a chance of 417 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: surviving because of the democratic participation of their owners and 418 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: their ability to say that we're going to decide to 419 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: ride this out together. It occurs to me hearing you 420 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 1: talk about the benefits of co ops, we've heard a 421 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: different story from the traditional business model. The reason CEOs 422 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: get paid so much because they're so smart, they're exceptional 423 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: operators and exceptional managers, and they've earned that money. And 424 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: it sounds like you're saying you're putting your faith elsewhere, 425 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of the management of the operation 426 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: or the ownership of a business and the piece of 427 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: our economy, your model is trusting a larger group of 428 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: people with the fate of this enterprise. Is that Is 429 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: that a fair characterization that could be true? It's it's 430 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: not gonna it's certainly not going to be one person. 431 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: The co ops come in all different kinds of ownership 432 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: structures and sizes, right, so anywhere from the thousands of 433 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: people who own the grocery store together to the small, 434 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: workout owned daycare center. So the principles, though, are are 435 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: such that they can work throughout a variety of structures 436 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: and um different numbers of people. But it doesn't have 437 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: to depend on a singular person to make or breaking 438 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: after the break. What does it mean to make a 439 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: co op of other co ops? It seems like for 440 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: your organization to exist, you've got to have a lot 441 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: of co ops in filling. Is there something in the 442 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: water in Philly that tends towards co ops? What's the 443 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: nature of the city and the existence of so many 444 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: co ops that your organization can exist? Yeah, well, I'll 445 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: say we're also a nonprofit, so we are funded through 446 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: philanthropic dollars, primarily UM. And some say that Ben Franklin 447 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: was the first person to organize a cooperative in the 448 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: United States. What was that? What you talking abou? It 449 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,959 Speaker 1: was called the Philadelphia Contributionship and it was a mutual 450 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: insurance company to protect businesses and homeowners against fire. It's 451 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: lost from fire. And this was in seventeen fifty two. 452 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: So in seventeen fifty two, Ben Franklin set up a 453 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: co op fire insurance company. That's the story. It still exists. 454 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: It still exists. I did not learn that in history class, 455 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: but I think you know, for black folks in Philadelphia, 456 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: cooperative economic and mutual aid practices have been essential to 457 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: survival so we can think back to periods when black 458 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: folks were enslaved, and you know, there were free blacks 459 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, and there were people who were running away 460 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: from slavery who came to Philadelphia and created a rich 461 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: and robust community of black folks here. But they survived 462 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: in many ways through operative economic practices. Right. So we 463 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: think about in seventeen eighty seven, the leaders who founded 464 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: the AMI Church also founded like the second black owned 465 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: mutual aid society in Philadelphia. Well it's the second in 466 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: the country, but they were organizing for survival because they 467 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: were locked out there at the traditionally established white environments 468 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: to be able to get things like education, to get 469 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: things like insurance if you were a widow. Right, the 470 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: mutual Aid Society was taking care of widows and orphans. 471 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: The Mutual Aid Society was paying tuition for UM students. 472 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: So there's this rich tradition of these kinds of practices 473 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: in the city of Philadelphia. And I think in this 474 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: environment where there are so many different ethnic groups and 475 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: and also a city with a high rate of poverty, UM, 476 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: we see communities turning back to these practices over and 477 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: over again as a way to survive I think we 478 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: we've certainly seen, for for Black Americans, a long tradition 479 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: of cooperative economic practice. You know, we look at things 480 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: that Ella Baker was doing, if Annie Lou Hamer, when 481 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: we look at a lot of what was happening in 482 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: the civil rights movement around a lot of that effort 483 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: around civil rights was also connected to economic power and 484 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: leaders that during that time we're also practicing cooperative economics 485 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: and trying to really think about how that connects back 486 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: into the political power that also needed to be gained. 487 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: And so when we have times like we have now 488 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: where things are just on edge and nobody is coming 489 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: to save us, people organized to save themselves. And that's 490 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why we're seeing such a rise 491 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: in co op creation and strengthening of ecosystems in Philadelphia, 492 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: but other places around the country too. So with this 493 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: long history of co ops and cooperative economics more broadly 494 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: in the black community, why is the pop cultural image 495 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: of a co op a white lady with an NPR 496 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: bag buying some granola? How did that happen? I think 497 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: there's a mythology for sure that co ops like are 498 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: things that white people do and nobody else does them, 499 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I've already started to explain that's not true. 500 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: I think it got to that in some ways. Jessica 501 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: Gordon Demhart, who is a researcher cooperator extraordinaire, wrote this 502 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: book called A Collective Courage, which tells the history of 503 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: African American cooperative practices. And along with these stories of 504 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: all of the starts right and in the ways in 505 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: which black communities thrived, we also know that some of 506 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: those stories were impacted by white terror, right, and that 507 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: there were just so many times when black folks get 508 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: too successful and white folks decided, you can't have this anymore. 509 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: And there are ways in which that has happened, you know, 510 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: at the neighborhood level, when we think about people's grocery. 511 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: I think it was in Tennessee or Kentucky, which was 512 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: a co op owned by black folks, and the men 513 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: who were the leaders in that co op community were 514 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: lynched by a group of white men who didn't like 515 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: that these black folks had gotten this much power and 516 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: we're competing. This was in the late nineteenth century. I 517 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: think we've seen how the Black Panther Party certainly was 518 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: practicing cooperative economics right, and we're infiltrated by the government 519 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: right too, to disrupt, you know, the things that they 520 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: were doing to see black power emerge. So there were 521 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: all of these ways I think in which white supremacy 522 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: has also threatened black communities and other communities of color 523 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: through structural racism, through the faults even of capitalism. It's 524 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: hard to try to operate collectively owned businesses in capitalism 525 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: because the structures themselves aren't set up to see these 526 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: kinds of enterprises succeed. So there's a lot of fits 527 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: and starts, I think. And I think we're just like 528 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,720 Speaker 1: all of us, whoever we are, whatever communities we come from, 529 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: where contending with the society that tells us that the 530 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: individual is more important than the collective, that says that 531 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: going for mind is more important than making sure that 532 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: we all get to benefit. And so we're all struggling 533 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: to kind of really counter um that narrative in our 534 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: variety of communities that we live and work in. Resting, 535 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about a set of statistics which remind us 536 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: that just having a job is not enough. And you know, 537 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: the roughly half of people in the United States who 538 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: would not be able to afford a four or five emergency, 539 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: don't have access to that cash. The number of multiple 540 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: jobs people have but don't carry benefits the working poor 541 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: broadly speaking, do you think that collective entrepreneurship, as you 542 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: put it, do you think that cooperatives are in part 543 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: and answer to the challenge and existence of a category 544 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: of people known as the working poor in the United States. Absolutely. 545 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: I think when people are empowered to make choices for 546 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: themselves and for one another, they'll make better choices than 547 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: somebody who's really just thinking about the bottom line for themselves. 548 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: And I think this is what we are seeing in 549 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: the worker co ops sector. We see a lot of 550 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: who you're categorizing is the working poor, turn to this 551 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: business model as a way to accumulate wealth, right to 552 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: to say that I'm gonna work and create a business 553 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: along with these other people, and we're going to do better. 554 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: Like worker co op wages tend to be higher than 555 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: traditional businesses, employees tend to have greater job satisfaction in 556 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: that sector. Those businesses thrive and are able to kind 557 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: of take the terms of economic difficulty better because of 558 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: that democratic nature and shared decision making model. So the 559 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: opportunities for wealth creation and and dignity right that comes 560 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: with ownership, and there are aspects of that that can 561 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: be reinvested in community. I think are are really compelling 562 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: components of why this model could could do so much 563 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: more with scalability. Yeah, given what we've been talking about, 564 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: this cooperative business model in a different way of interacting 565 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: with the economy, but also under the auspices of a 566 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: show called How to Citizen Like, we're interested in people 567 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: showing up in our democracy. What to you is the 568 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: connection between a cooperatively run business or entity and the 569 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: health of our democracy. This is where it gets really 570 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: duty and where I think it comes back to that 571 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: sense of lifestyle. For some folks, I think there's an 572 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: opportunity to learn and practice democracy and co ops that 573 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: we don't get in many other spaces. So for most 574 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: of us in the United States, we think of democracy 575 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: and we think of voting at the ballot box, and 576 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: maybe that happens once a year and once every few years, etcetera. 577 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: And that's our participation in democracy, or we think about 578 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: it as political democracy and how we engage with our 579 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: elected leaders. But there's also direct democracy that we could 580 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: take experience in our neighborhoods and through our own civic 581 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: engagement and practices, as we're thinking about how to participate 582 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: as a citizen, as a neighbor, as a resident at home, 583 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: and I think it gets deepened with the co op 584 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: experience because people are learning how to listen right, people 585 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: are learning how to collaborate, their learning how to make 586 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: decisions together without power over one another, but power with 587 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: one another or conceding power to others when that's appropriate 588 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: as well. I think that these are practices that help 589 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,280 Speaker 1: build up the democracy muscle. Right When we find opportunities 590 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: to plug into decision making, when we find opportunities to 591 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: plug into organizing, these are practices of democracy. Whether we're 592 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: we're organizing, you know, for political power, economic power, to 593 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: to get basic needs met. This is the activity of democracy. 594 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: And cooperatives provide opportunities to gain skills and doing some 595 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: of at work. Whether you're an employee, you're a member 596 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: owner who shows up to your membership meetings, you've got 597 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: power in that place and and democracy is the pathway 598 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: for practicing and utilizing that power. In co ops, that 599 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: was extraordinary and the crowd goes wild woo co ops 600 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: is where we can practice democracy, and we are in 601 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: desperate need of more practice. Jamila, thank you so much 602 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: for spending this time with me. Thank you for listening 603 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: to me and letting me go on and on. Uh, 604 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: it was my pleasure. When we started making this show, 605 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: I knew one of the reasons was to expand the 606 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: idea of what it meant to citizen as a verb, 607 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,720 Speaker 1: well beyond voting, that we could express our power, flex 608 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: that power in all kinds of parts of our lives. 609 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: And Jamila talking about co ops, Oh, that just brings 610 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: it home, this idea of democracy in our economic relationships 611 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 1: and the governing structure of our businesses and who they 612 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: actually serve. I don't think she could have dropped the 613 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: mike any harder than that. Plus there was a bonus 614 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: Bible rap who knew who knew she had that in 615 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 1: her and who knew the world of co ops didn't 616 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: have to be so white. Next week, I'm speaking with 617 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: someone who believes so much in investing in her local community. 618 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: She advocates for just giving people money, no strings attached. 619 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: You know, we call this show how to Citizen. So 620 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 1: here's some of the how to parts from our producer Allen, 621 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: how do you co op it? Just like Jamila experience 622 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: growing up, cooperatives don't always have to be formal organizations. 623 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: What are some informal ways you have participated in collective stewardship, 624 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: Perhaps a community garden, local part cleanup, or maybe in church. 625 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 1: Think about the ways you cooperate with your community, local 626 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: and global. Next up, we've got some homework for you. 627 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: Per Jamila's suggestions. Start with reading the book Collective Courage, 628 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: a History of African American cooperative economic thought and practice, 629 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: by Jessica Gordon Nemhard. Collective Courage chronicles Black cooperative business 630 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 1: ownership and its placed in the Civil rights movement, a 631 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: history that's often forgotten when discussing co ops. Purchase it 632 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: from our online bookstore and support local bookshops in the process. 633 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 1: Visit bookshop dot Org, Backslash Shop Backslash How to Citizen, 634 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,720 Speaker 1: And last, but not least, check out the co ops 635 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: in your neck of the woods. You'd be surprised time 636 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: many cooperatives are operating right around you. Look into either 637 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: buying from a local farm or grocery co op, joining 638 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,919 Speaker 1: a local credit union which is a financial co op, 639 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,919 Speaker 1: or even consider getting your power from an electric co op. 640 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: The best way to find them is to just do 641 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: a quick online search with the name of your city 642 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 1: or state and the word cooperative. You can find a 643 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: directory of co ops around the country at us worker 644 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: dot co op backslash directory. If you're take any of 645 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: these actions, please brag about yourself online using the hashtag 646 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,720 Speaker 1: how to citizen and send us general feedback or ideas 647 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,359 Speaker 1: for the show to comments at how to citizen dot com. 648 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: Speaking of that domain name, we have one and we're 649 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,439 Speaker 1: using it. Visit how to citizen dot com to sign 650 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: up for our newsletter or learn about upcoming events or 651 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: even more stuff than that. And if you like the show, 652 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: spread the word tell somebody. If you don't, definitely just 653 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: keep it to yourself. Appreciate you. How does Citizen with 654 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: barrettune Day is a production of I Heart Radio Podcasts 655 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: and Dust Like Productions. Our executive producers are Me, barrettun Day, Thurston, 656 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stewart, and Misha Usa. Our producers are Stephanie Cone 657 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 1: and Ali Kilton. Kelly Prime is our editor, Valentino Rivera 658 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: is our engineer, and Sam Paulson is our apprentice. Original 659 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: music by Andrew eapon. This episode was produced and sound 660 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: designed by Ali Kilts. Special thanks to Joel Smith from 661 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:30,760 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio.