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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Buck Sexton Chow podcast, make sure

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Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. A number of recent mass

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Speaker 1: shootings have caused the left to renew their efforts to

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Speaker 1: implement new gun control laws around the country that includes

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Speaker 1: red flag laws, universal background checks, and even calls for

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Speaker 1: a band on assault weapons. But do any of these

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Speaker 1: laws actually work the way they're intended? On the special

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Speaker 1: edition of Hold the Line will examine the left's latest

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Speaker 1: calls for new gun restrictions and bust some of the

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Speaker 1: myths of gun control. Welcome to the special edition of

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Speaker 1: Hold the Line. I'm Buck Sexton. This is the usual rhythm.

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Speaker 1: This is, unfortunately the psych that we go through after

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Speaker 1: a horrific mass shooting in this country. Democrats start immediately

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Speaker 1: shouting about gun control, and I do mean shouting. They're

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Speaker 1: angry at anybody who does not want to go along

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Speaker 1: with these policies. They immediately forget all about the myriad

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Speaker 1: laws out there with regard to gun purchasing, gun transfer,

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Speaker 1: where kind of guns you can have, fl's background checks,

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Speaker 1: all of this. They pretend like it doesn't exist and

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Speaker 1: that there's some kind of a free for all, like

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Speaker 1: we're living in some other period in our history. Just

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Speaker 1: get a gun, go wherever you want with it, and

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Speaker 1: nothing matters. It's dishonest, it's wrong. But there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of emotional impulse that they use to mobilize people to

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Speaker 1: call for this gun control. Joe Biden, for example, just

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Speaker 1: saying this, we need to do something about guns. Watch

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Speaker 1: this time we have to take the time to do something,

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Speaker 1: and this time it's time for the in it to

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Speaker 1: do something. Do what? That's always the question that we

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Speaker 1: should run anounce. Okay, do do what. We already have

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Speaker 1: background checks, so we need universal background checks. Really do

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Speaker 1: we think that increasing background checks to private individuals and

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Speaker 1: engaged in a private sale of their own property that's

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Speaker 1: going to stop shootings? Really? Do we think that's going

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Speaker 1: to work? We don't think that's also just going to

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Speaker 1: harass a lot of people who are selling their own

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Speaker 1: property to somebody else. Is that how many shootings is

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Speaker 1: going to stop? I'm just wondering. I think we should

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Speaker 1: ask these questions. I think it's worth at least getting

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Speaker 1: into it and then banning assault weapons. Assault weapons are

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Speaker 1: used in less than five percent. Some would say less

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Speaker 1: than two or three percent. I think of all shootings

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Speaker 1: across the country, very very small percentage of shootings. But

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Speaker 1: Vice President Harris, for example, it is calling for an

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Speaker 1: assault weapons ban because she says, we know it works.

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Speaker 1: We are not sitting around waiting to figure out. We're

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Speaker 1: not looking a vaccine. We know what works on this

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Speaker 1: It includes let's have an assault weapon span. You know

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Speaker 1: what an assault weapon is. You know how an assault

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Speaker 1: weapon was designed. It was designed for a specific purpose

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Speaker 1: to kill a lot of human beings quickly. They don't

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Speaker 1: know what works actually, And these are the same Democrats,

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Speaker 1: by the way, who think that we're all going to

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Speaker 1: be safer if we just don't punish criminals, including violent

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Speaker 1: criminals very much, that if we have progressive prosecutors, if

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Speaker 1: we have defunding of police, if we take social justice

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Speaker 1: over criminal justice as our mantra, that will be better

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Speaker 1: off as a society, safer as a society. We've seen

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Speaker 1: that's not true. You're thirty percent spike and homicides in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty nationwide. You have some of the most violent

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Speaker 1: ears in recorded history for dozens of city across the country.

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Speaker 1: So they don't actually know how to stop violence, gun violence,

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Speaker 1: you name it, but they keep saying they do. And

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Speaker 1: then there are some abject morons like Congressman Swollwell who

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Speaker 1: says things like this, So, I think we've debunked the

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Speaker 1: idea that the answer to a killer with an assault

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Speaker 1: rifle is to have more quote unquote good guys with guns.

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Speaker 1: The good guys with guns are outgunned by the bad

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Speaker 1: guys that we've given guns in our country. What is

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Speaker 1: he even talking about. First of all, no one thinks that,

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Speaker 1: no one who knows anything has that been debunked. And

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Speaker 1: there are many shootings every year that are either stopped

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Speaker 1: in progress from being a mass casualty event or stopped

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Speaker 1: from becoming a casualty event at all because of somebody

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Speaker 1: who did have a lawful firem who's able to bring

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Speaker 1: it to bear in the situation. But look, here's what

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Speaker 1: we have to do, because this is a national conversation,

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Speaker 1: and the Democrats are insisting, let's have a discussion, let's

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Speaker 1: look at what they want, and then we will debunk

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Speaker 1: gun control myths. We'll go through this with real experts

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Speaker 1: on the subject. We'll address each of the primary policy

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Speaker 1: proposals of the Democrats and we'll see what we actually are.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's do it. We come back. Editor Bearing

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Speaker 1: Arms dot Com, Cam Edward stops about to discuss the

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Speaker 1: constitutional basis for Americans right to keep in bear arms.

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Speaker 1: Starting right there, Stay with us. Support from my podcast

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Speaker 1: When we speak of the of the gun control movement,

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Speaker 1: we have to begin with the text of the Constitution itself.

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment to the US Constitution reads, a well regulated

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Speaker 1: militia being necessary to the security of a free state,

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Speaker 1: the right of the people to keep in bear arms

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Speaker 1: shall not be infringed. Seems fairly simple, the right of

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Speaker 1: the people to keep in bear arms shall not be infringed.

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Speaker 1: But many proponents of gun control seating quite differently. So

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Speaker 1: I'm arguing that the right only applies to people in

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Speaker 1: the context of a government regulated militia. So is membership

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Speaker 1: in a state sanctioned militia a prerequisite for owning a firearm?

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Speaker 1: Join me now just spell some of the myths around

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Speaker 1: the gun grabbing movement. Is the editor of bearing arms

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Speaker 1: dot Com, Cam Eledwards. Cam thanks for being with us

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Speaker 1: absolutely bug, thanks much for the invite. So Cam, we'll

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Speaker 1: get to the well regulated part a moment here, but

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Speaker 1: let's start with the notion of the militia. The militia

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Speaker 1: component here, just as James Mcreynold's writing the Court's Opinion

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, USB Miller defined the militia as he

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Speaker 1: debates in the Convention of the History and Legislation of

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Speaker 1: Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators show

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Speaker 1: plainly enough the militia comprised all males physically capable of

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Speaker 1: acting in concert for the common defense. So what do

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Speaker 1: you make of what we know here of the history

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Speaker 1: of this as well as the reality, the constitutional reality

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Speaker 1: of the second Amendments. Yeah, so, I mean you can

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Speaker 1: get even more specific, right, because there's the organized militia

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Speaker 1: and there's the unorganized militia. The unorganized militia is basically

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Speaker 1: us right as the body of the American people according

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Speaker 1: to US Code, it's males between the ages of I

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Speaker 1: believe seventeen and sixty five comprise the unorganized militia. But

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Speaker 1: I think a fair reading of the unorganized militia today

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Speaker 1: is basically the body of people capable of burying arms

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Speaker 1: in either defense of themselves or the state if necessary.

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Speaker 1: We the people are the militia served well regularly. Someone

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Speaker 1: the anti gun, anti gun movement will say that that

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Speaker 1: phrase empowers the federal government to regular militias. Justice Scalia though,

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Speaker 1: to find well regulated in dcv. Heller as the objective

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Speaker 1: well regulated implies nothing more than the imposition of proper

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Speaker 1: discipline and training. But what do you make of well?

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Speaker 1: I think Justice Scalia had a right. But again, what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here is a well regulated militia, right,

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Speaker 1: not a well regulated body of people, not a well

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Speaker 1: regulated group of gun owners. What this basically means is

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Speaker 1: that in the service of a militia, Absolutely you want

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Speaker 1: those militia members to have training, to have some sort

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Speaker 1: of experience where the firearms and the equipment that they're

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Speaker 1: going to be using. But does that mean that every

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Speaker 1: regulation that a gun control advocated wants to propose is

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden going to comport with a Second

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Speaker 1: Amendment because the Second Ament has the word regulated in it.

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Speaker 1: Of course not. And that's the type of misreading of

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Speaker 1: the Second Amendment that we've been seen frankly for decades now.

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Speaker 1: And cam Let's talk also about the argument. You'll sometimes

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Speaker 1: hear that that the Constitution would only protect the firearms

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Speaker 1: in usage at that time. You know, I know that

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Speaker 1: this is this is not as common as some of

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Speaker 1: the other arguments. People say, well, fine, you're allowed to

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Speaker 1: have a musket as part of a militia. What do

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Speaker 1: you say to that? Sure, and I guess journalists are

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Speaker 1: allowed to have quill pens and printing presses, right, because

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Speaker 1: the First Amendment could never apply to any sort of

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Speaker 1: means a communication that weren't around in seventeen eighty seven

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Speaker 1: or seventeen ninety one. I mean, look, this is ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, the Supreme Court has addressed this as well,

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Speaker 1: first in the Heller decision and then even more explicitly

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Speaker 1: in a procurium opinion that was handed down. Surely, after

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Speaker 1: Justice Stanton as Galia passed away case called Katano versus Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: and the state of Massachusetts had banned stun guns, and

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Speaker 1: they claimed that stun guns weren't protected by the second

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Speaker 1: maybe because electronic weapons weren't around at the time of

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Speaker 1: the founding. The Supreme Court said, no, that's not the standard.

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Speaker 1: That's not the test arms that are in common use

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Speaker 1: for a variety of lawful purposes are prima facie protected

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Speaker 1: by the Second Amendment, and so that would include semi

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Speaker 1: automatic firems. Somebody include lever action rifles. I also find

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Speaker 1: an odd buck that they stick to this when it

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Speaker 1: comes to modern sporting rifles. Nobody ever says, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: revolvers weren't around when the Second Amendment was ratified, so

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Speaker 1: revolvers can't be protected. They use this argument specifically to

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Speaker 1: go after the guns that they're trying to ban. At

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Speaker 1: this point, their argument, as you say, taken to his

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Speaker 1: logical conclusion, would be that you can't own anything other

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Speaker 1: than a perhaps a brace of single fire pistols, a

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Speaker 1: muzzleloading rifle, maybe a blunderbuss. And again, that's just not

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Speaker 1: how we treat any of our rights. As technology progresses,

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Speaker 1: as time moves on, those rights remain sacrosanct, even though

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Speaker 1: the tools that we might be using, you know, change

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Speaker 1: from our grandfather's day. Yes, and as cool as a

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Speaker 1: blunderbuss may look, it is not the most reliable firearm

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Speaker 1: to be using, especially if one has to defend oneself.

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Speaker 1: Throwing that one out there, you mentioned a DCV Heller,

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Speaker 1: and also the idea of common usage that obviously comes

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Speaker 1: up cam now because of the huge push. I think

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Speaker 1: the primary push we're seeing from the gun grabbers is

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Speaker 1: that is the assault weapons ban issue. And this this

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Speaker 1: goes a little bit away from our constitutional analysis. But Biden,

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Speaker 1: for example, we'll say we know that that work, and

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Speaker 1: so we know that if we do that again, it

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Speaker 1: will work again. For one thing, I want, I want

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Speaker 1: to know what you think of the claim that the

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Speaker 1: assault weapons ban of nineteen ninety three I believe, or

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four that it worked. And the other part

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Speaker 1: of this is if a R fifteen is the most

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Speaker 1: common rifle owned in America, which I believe they are,

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Speaker 1: and DCV Heller says, common usage is the standard for

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Speaker 1: firearms ownership, how can they ban something that's the most

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Speaker 1: common rifle that's obviously in common usage. Sorry, I'm throwing two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I'll answer the second question first, and that is

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Speaker 1: the sort of sixty four million dollar question, right, how

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Speaker 1: can you ban some they look, there are more AR

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Speaker 1: fifteens in the hands of American citizens. There are four

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Speaker 1: f one fifty pickup trucks on American roads. Right, the

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Speaker 1: AR fifteen is in common use, and I think that

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Speaker 1: is the biggest barrier to an acting a nationwide gun band. Now,

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Speaker 1: the appellate courts around the country that have upheld quote

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Speaker 1: unquote to soberban bands in places like Maryland and California

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Speaker 1: have used different arguments, but basically they come down on

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Speaker 1: the side that, well, these arms are actually covered by

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Speaker 1: the Second Amendment. The Fourth Circuit, which covers Virginia where

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Speaker 1: I live, ruled egregiously that because AR fifteens are like

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Speaker 1: machine guns and that they look like them, that they

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Speaker 1: are covered under Justice Gale is a comment in Heller about,

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Speaker 1: you know, this decision shouldn't cast any doubt on long

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Speaker 1: stead and prohibitions against you know, ownership of machine guns

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Speaker 1: and the like. So again you've seen the courts abuse

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Speaker 1: and misread what the Supreme Court has said in order

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Speaker 1: to try to uphold this band on what is a

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Speaker 1: commonly owned firearm. Now, as for the efficacy of Biden's

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Speaker 1: gun band back of the nineteen nineties, you know, he

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Speaker 1: is talking about one specific study that used one very

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Speaker 1: narrow definition of what constitutes a quote unquote match shooting, right,

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Speaker 1: and that was I believe a shooting in which six

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Speaker 1: or more people are killed or injured. If you were

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Speaker 1: to change that dynamic, if you were to lower the

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Speaker 1: number to five, for example, from six, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the statistics change. But what we do know overall is

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Speaker 1: that any homicide in which a rifle is used is

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Speaker 1: a pretty rare event. In the United States. There are

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Speaker 1: actually more people who are killed, according to the FBI

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Speaker 1: Uniform Crime Report, with fists and feet than with a

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Speaker 1: rifle of any kind in any given year. So the

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Speaker 1: idea that we're going to focus on this one particular

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Speaker 1: firearm that isn't used in a lot of crime and

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Speaker 1: think that it is going to make an impact on

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Speaker 1: violent crime nationwide, I think is absolutely absurd. This is,

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Speaker 1: I believe, pardon parcel of the gun control advocates and

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Speaker 1: the anti gun democrats plan again to try to turn

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Speaker 1: our segment right into a privilege. Damn. Let's look at

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Speaker 1: some more of the gun control policies and some of

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Speaker 1: the myths that they are based on when we come

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Speaker 1: back here in a second. The recent mass shootings in Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: New York, and Uvalde, Texas have led both Democrat and

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Speaker 1: some Republican lawmakers to propose new gun control measures. Tam

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Speaker 1: Edwards is going to return with this in a moment

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Speaker 1: to take a look at what the new laws would

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Speaker 1: mean and how effective they'd be, if effective at all,

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Speaker 1: We return with this special edition of Hold the Line.

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Speaker 1: We intend to do. Raise the age to buy weapons

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Speaker 1: of war, restrict access to ghost guns, outlaw high capacity magazines,

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Speaker 1: banned civilian bump stock sales, cracked down on gun trafficking,

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Speaker 1: and advanced safegun storage. Recent shootings in Buffalo, New York

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Speaker 1: and you've all the Texas have led the federal lawmakers

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Speaker 1: to propose a whole host of new gun control measures.

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Speaker 1: As Nancy Pelosi was just describing. There, one proposal seems

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Speaker 1: to be gaining bipartisan support, or so called red flag laws,

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Speaker 1: which allow law enforcem to confiscate the firearms with people

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Speaker 1: deemed to be a threat to themselves or others by

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Speaker 1: a court. Join me now again, is the editor of

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Speaker 1: Pairing Arms. Cam Edwards. Caam, good to have you back,

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Speaker 1: take us through this red flag laws? Have they worked?

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Speaker 1: Would they work? What are the problems as you see

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Speaker 1: it with them? All? Right? So have they worked? First

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Speaker 1: of all, it's really hard to prove that the presence

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Speaker 1: of a flag law prevented a crime from occurring, right,

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Speaker 1: It's hard even for advocates to say, well, if we

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Speaker 1: hadn't had this, then X would have happened. But the

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Speaker 1: one study that I keep hearing advocates of red flag

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Speaker 1: laws site is a study of Connecticut's red flag law

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Speaker 1: in terms of reducing suicides, and they say that for

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Speaker 1: somewhere between every ten to twenty firearms that were seized,

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Speaker 1: or I should say every ten to twenty red flag

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Speaker 1: petitions that were initiated, one suicide was prevented, which means

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Speaker 1: at best maybe a ten percent reduction in the number

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Speaker 1: of suicides for every person who was disarmed. So my

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Speaker 1: question then becomes, well, what happened to those other nine

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Speaker 1: to nineteen people? Do they go on to commit suicide

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Speaker 1: by another means? Or were they not dangerous to begin with?

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Speaker 1: You know, this is one of the issues that I

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Speaker 1: have here, Buck, is that red flag laws, we are

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Speaker 1: told are designed to keep danger people from doing dangerous things.

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Speaker 1: But under every red flag law that I've seen an effect.

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Speaker 1: What happens is someone is deemed by a judge to

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Speaker 1: be dangerous. There may or may not be in a

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Speaker 1: medical evaluation. Most of the time there's not there's a

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Speaker 1: lowered standard of evidence that needs to be presented by

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor. And then once a judge says, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: believe that person's dangerous, they take their legally owned firearms

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Speaker 1: and they leave the dangerous person alone with their knives,

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Speaker 1: with their pills, with their cans of gasoline, and their

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Speaker 1: matches and their car keys. It doesn't actually do anything

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Speaker 1: to address the individual. This is a gun control proposal

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Speaker 1: that mask raids as a sort of mental health bill.

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Speaker 1: Most red flag laws do not have any mental health proponent,

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Speaker 1: proposals or components to them whatsoever. And that's by design

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Speaker 1: because that's expensive, right to actually institutionalize somebody to ensure

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Speaker 1: that they're getting the treatment that they need so that

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Speaker 1: they're not in crisis and not truly a danger to themselves,

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Speaker 1: or there's that cost money, and it's easier. It's simpler

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Speaker 1: to simply, you know, red flag someone and claim that

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Speaker 1: you've addressed the problem. So that's one issue that I have.

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Speaker 1: I have due process concerns with red flag laws, but

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Speaker 1: I also worry about the unintended consequences. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: been talking to a lot of secondment advocates around the

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Speaker 1: country over the past week, and one of the common

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Speaker 1: concerns that I've heard from people in states that have

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Speaker 1: expansive red flag laws that allow almost anybody to initiate

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Speaker 1: these petitions is that it actually stops people from seeking help.

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Speaker 1: So you may have had somebody who you know is

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Speaker 1: going through a painful divorce, or maybe they just lost

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Speaker 1: a spouse or a loved one or somebody they want

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Speaker 1: to talk to somebody exactly right, and they want to

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Speaker 1: talk to somebody, and they look, they're they're not suicidal,

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Speaker 1: they're not a danger, but they are gun owners, and

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Speaker 1: they're really concerned that some over zealous counselor is going

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Speaker 1: to say, oh, my gosh, okay, so you're you're talking

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Speaker 1: about depression and you own guns. We've got to get

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Speaker 1: those guns away from you. And they're concerned about people

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Speaker 1: who are actively going to withdraw from treatment or not

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Speaker 1: seek out treatment because they're afraid that they're going to

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Speaker 1: get caught up in one of these red flag laws.

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Speaker 1: We need to be working towards destigmatizing getting mental health help.

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Speaker 1: We need to be working towards encouraging people to reach

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Speaker 1: out when they need help. And I just I can't

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Speaker 1: help but think that these red flag laws are going

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Speaker 1: to take us down a road we don't want to

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Speaker 1: go down. Another measure, and I think it's based at

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Speaker 1: some level on the myth that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: believe that we don't have a lot of background checks.

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Speaker 1: I mean millions and millions and millions of them being

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Speaker 1: run all the time. A measure that seems to be

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Speaker 1: getting some traction, including among some Republicans, is universal background check.

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Speaker 1: That's the phrase, it's always used. Here's what Pennsylvania Centator

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Speaker 1: Pat Toomey said recently. Is your proposal to expand background

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Speaker 1: checks still in it? Well, I certainly hope we're going

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Speaker 1: to have an expansion of background checks. You know, Senator

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Speaker 1: Mansion and I have been working on this for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and we've tried to establish that at least

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Speaker 1: for commercial sales of firearms there ought to be a

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Speaker 1: background check. So sales at gun shows, sales that are

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Speaker 1: advertised over the internet. Okay, so Ken, you know this

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Speaker 1: is we hear this all the time, so please walk

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Speaker 1: us through this. Are there commercial sales where there isn't

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Speaker 1: a background check? Let's start with that. Yeah, no, And

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Speaker 1: I'm confused why Pat Toomey would try to cloud this

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Speaker 1: issue here. So, no, every commercial sale of a firearm

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Speaker 1: it needs to go through a background check. But again,

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Speaker 1: if you're a private gun owner who is selling a

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Speaker 1: firearm from their personal collection, that's not a commercial sale. Right.

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Speaker 1: Once you are engaged in the commercial business of selling

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Speaker 1: or buying firearms, you were required under federal law to

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Speaker 1: get a federal firearms license. When we talk about universal

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Speaker 1: background checks, what we are talking about again are those

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Speaker 1: private sales from individual gun owners. And I'll be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, Buck, whether or not you think everybody who

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Speaker 1: buys a gun should go through a background check, A

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Speaker 1: universal background check law does nothing to prevent violent crime

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Speaker 1: because it is impossible to proactively enforce. How do law

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Speaker 1: enforcement know if I'm going to sell my gun to

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Speaker 1: my neighbor. They don't know. At best, this is something

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Speaker 1: that would be discovered after a crime has been committed,

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Speaker 1: and then you can go back and charge the original seller.

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Speaker 1: But at that point, you know, again the damage has

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Speaker 1: already been done. And frankly, states also have laws can

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Speaker 1: where you can loan you know, if you if your

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Speaker 1: brother in law wants to go hunting, you can give

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Speaker 1: your shotgun as long as he's not a prohibited possessor

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Speaker 1: to that individual. To go right, aren't there situations like

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Speaker 1: that that are covered under the law that are lawful? Oh? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: I mean again, that's listen to the status quo. The

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Speaker 1: gold standard is it's your property. You know. Again, as

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Speaker 1: long as you're not breaking the law, as long as

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Speaker 1: you're not knowingly arming feminals, that your property. To do

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Speaker 1: with what you want? Uh? What? What? Again? What the

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Speaker 1: Democrats are trying to do? Here is up in that

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Speaker 1: and here here's here's President Biden on the This is

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Speaker 1: another one that comes up with all this, the gun

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Speaker 1: show loophole. Why the question now is what will the

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Speaker 1: Congress do? House representatives already passed key measures we need,

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Speaker 1: expanding background checks to cover nearly all gun sales, including

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Speaker 1: at gun shows and online sales. Getting rid of the

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Speaker 1: loophole allows a gun sale to go through after three

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Speaker 1: business days, even if the background check has not been completed. Okay,

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Speaker 1: can I so, first of all, can I can I

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Speaker 1: just like bough? I mean, obviously, in New York you

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Speaker 1: can't buy anything, but in some states he's just buy

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Speaker 1: an AAR fifteen and no background check and they just

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Speaker 1: send it to you in the mail. Is that how

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Speaker 1: it works online? And no, no, um no, it typically listen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot to unpacks their Uh, let's start

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Speaker 1: with the quote unquote gun show loophole again. If you

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Speaker 1: are in the business of selling firearms, you have to

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Speaker 1: put your customers through a background check. If you are

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Speaker 1: a private gun owner who maybe has a table that

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Speaker 1: you rented a gun show because you're selling a couple

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Speaker 1: of guns from a private collection, or you run into

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Speaker 1: somebody at the gun show and you're talking about you

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Speaker 1: know what it is that they're looking for, and you say, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I've actually been looking to sell one

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Speaker 1: of my pistols. I'll sell it to you. Those are

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Speaker 1: private sales, and again, there's no way to proactively enforce

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Speaker 1: a background check law to require those people to go

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Speaker 1: to an FFL and have a background check run before

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Speaker 1: that gun is sold. Even if you were to require

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Speaker 1: this at every gun show, what's to stop those individuals

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Speaker 1: from walking outside of the parking lot and saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'll meet you up, meet up in

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Speaker 1: the part, you know, at your house an hour from now.

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Speaker 1: This is no solution to actually addressing violent crime. As

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Speaker 1: for you know, selling guns out of state, the current

429
00:25:01,697 --> 00:25:04,777
Speaker 1: federal law is that if you purchase a handgun, if I,

430
00:25:04,937 --> 00:25:06,697
Speaker 1: you know, in Virginia as a Virginia resident, if I

431
00:25:06,737 --> 00:25:08,617
Speaker 1: were to go to Meryl under Pennsylvania up to New York,

432
00:25:08,777 --> 00:25:12,417
Speaker 1: god forbid, I would have to have that firearm shipped

433
00:25:12,417 --> 00:25:15,137
Speaker 1: back to an FFL in Virginia before I could take

434
00:25:15,177 --> 00:25:18,457
Speaker 1: possession of it. Some states may have laws requiring that

435
00:25:18,497 --> 00:25:20,977
Speaker 1: for long guns as well, but that is not a

436
00:25:21,017 --> 00:25:23,817
Speaker 1: federal requirement. So even if you buy a gunn retail

437
00:25:24,537 --> 00:25:27,777
Speaker 1: in another state, under federal law, you can actually pick

438
00:25:27,817 --> 00:25:30,137
Speaker 1: that gun up there in the state where you're at,

439
00:25:30,177 --> 00:25:32,537
Speaker 1: as opposed to the state where you live. But the

440
00:25:32,577 --> 00:25:35,217
Speaker 1: idea that you know, again, you're just seeing these massive

441
00:25:35,257 --> 00:25:37,937
Speaker 1: amounts of people who are you know, popping up online

442
00:25:37,977 --> 00:25:39,377
Speaker 1: and saying, Hey, I got a gun to sell you.

443
00:25:39,417 --> 00:25:42,817
Speaker 1: I'm going to ship at via ups. No, that's not happening,

444
00:25:43,457 --> 00:25:46,377
Speaker 1: And even if it was, buck it wouldn't be addressed

445
00:25:46,737 --> 00:25:51,497
Speaker 1: by a background check law. Amazing, damn appreciate the expertise.

446
00:25:51,537 --> 00:25:54,097
Speaker 1: It's always man. Thanks for being with us. Yeah, you're bet,

447
00:25:54,177 --> 00:25:57,417
Speaker 1: Thanks Bud. We'll be right back with more of this

448
00:25:57,537 --> 00:26:09,497
Speaker 1: special edition of Hold the Line. Each morning, the President

449
00:26:09,537 --> 00:26:12,457
Speaker 1: of the United States receives a highly classified briefing on

450
00:26:12,497 --> 00:26:15,297
Speaker 1: the most important issues facing the country. It's called the

451
00:26:15,337 --> 00:26:19,457
Speaker 1: President's Daily Brief or PDB. It's delivered by America's spies

452
00:26:19,457 --> 00:26:22,297
Speaker 1: and analysts. Well, now you can hear your very own

453
00:26:22,377 --> 00:26:25,337
Speaker 1: PDB in the form of a podcast hosted by me

454
00:26:25,657 --> 00:26:29,617
Speaker 1: Brian Dean Wright, a former CIA operations officer. Each morning

455
00:26:29,617 --> 00:26:32,177
Speaker 1: at six am Eastern, I'll bring you fifteen to twenty

456
00:26:32,217 --> 00:26:35,097
Speaker 1: minutes of the most important issues facing the country, giving

457
00:26:35,137 --> 00:26:38,577
Speaker 1: you the critical intelligence and analysis you need to start

458
00:26:38,777 --> 00:26:53,897
Speaker 1: your morning. This time we have to take the time

459
00:26:55,057 --> 00:26:57,937
Speaker 1: to do something, and this time it's time for the

460
00:26:58,057 --> 00:27:03,457
Speaker 1: Senate to do something. Do something. That's the refrain we

461
00:27:03,657 --> 00:27:07,897
Speaker 1: constantly here. After every mass shooting, inevitably, the anti gun

462
00:27:07,897 --> 00:27:10,977
Speaker 1: crowd calls for a more background check, stricter control over

463
00:27:11,017 --> 00:27:14,337
Speaker 1: so called assault weapons, or more gun free zones. But

464
00:27:14,377 --> 00:27:16,137
Speaker 1: a few people take the time to determine if the

465
00:27:16,177 --> 00:27:19,857
Speaker 1: gun control measures being proposed would work to prevent crime

466
00:27:19,897 --> 00:27:22,897
Speaker 1: or mass shootings. Thankfully, one man has actually done the work,

467
00:27:22,977 --> 00:27:25,777
Speaker 1: looked at the data. John Lott is the author of

468
00:27:25,857 --> 00:27:28,097
Speaker 1: More Guns, Less crime and the president of the Crime

469
00:27:28,137 --> 00:27:31,417
Speaker 1: Prevention Research Center. He joins me, Now, John, thanks for

470
00:27:31,457 --> 00:27:35,577
Speaker 1: being with us. Thanks for me in book, John, you

471
00:27:35,817 --> 00:27:38,097
Speaker 1: literally wrote the book on the issue of crime and

472
00:27:38,137 --> 00:27:39,617
Speaker 1: gun control. I want to go through some of the

473
00:27:39,657 --> 00:27:43,337
Speaker 1: more common gun control measures and honestly gun control myths

474
00:27:43,377 --> 00:27:47,017
Speaker 1: that we hear about here about Let's start with gun

475
00:27:47,377 --> 00:27:50,537
Speaker 1: free zone. Right. The idea here that the left puts

476
00:27:50,537 --> 00:27:54,697
Speaker 1: forward is gun free zones prevent gun crimes. What does

477
00:27:54,697 --> 00:27:58,497
Speaker 1: the data tell us? Right? But I mean, let me

478
00:27:58,617 --> 00:28:01,617
Speaker 1: first of all say, for twenty years, over twenty years,

479
00:28:01,617 --> 00:28:03,417
Speaker 1: I've wanted to go and do something. I find it

480
00:28:03,537 --> 00:28:08,977
Speaker 1: very frustrating. Unfortunately, I think the text proposals said gun

481
00:28:09,017 --> 00:28:13,617
Speaker 1: control advocates people like prison buying put out will actually

482
00:28:14,057 --> 00:28:17,737
Speaker 1: either make things worse or have no impact. One thing

483
00:28:17,777 --> 00:28:20,617
Speaker 1: that I think would make a huge difference is getting

484
00:28:20,697 --> 00:28:24,457
Speaker 1: rid of these gun free zones. Ninety six percent of

485
00:28:24,537 --> 00:28:27,737
Speaker 1: the successful mass public shootings keep on occurring in places

486
00:28:27,737 --> 00:28:31,657
Speaker 1: where guns are banned. I understand what's hoped for here.

487
00:28:31,857 --> 00:28:34,817
Speaker 1: The notion is you simply go and ban guns from

488
00:28:34,857 --> 00:28:39,937
Speaker 1: certain areas, then you won't have gun crimes in those areas. Unfortunately,

489
00:28:40,017 --> 00:28:42,777
Speaker 1: I think this is one example where the opposite happens.

490
00:28:42,777 --> 00:28:45,577
Speaker 1: That when you go and you ban guns in certain places,

491
00:28:46,137 --> 00:28:49,457
Speaker 1: the most law binding good citizens who obey that, and

492
00:28:49,657 --> 00:28:53,537
Speaker 1: rather than deterring criminals from going committing crimes in those places,

493
00:28:53,577 --> 00:28:56,337
Speaker 1: it actually serves as a magnet for them to go

494
00:28:56,377 --> 00:28:59,297
Speaker 1: and commit crimes. And that, you know, just look at

495
00:28:59,297 --> 00:29:03,417
Speaker 1: the last few attacks that we've had. The Tulsa hospital

496
00:29:03,457 --> 00:29:06,537
Speaker 1: shooting was a gun free zone. The school in Texas

497
00:29:07,017 --> 00:29:09,257
Speaker 1: was a gun free zone. Thirty percent of the schools

498
00:29:09,257 --> 00:29:12,697
Speaker 1: in Texas actually have armed teachers and staff, but this

499
00:29:12,817 --> 00:29:16,617
Speaker 1: wasn't one of them. You look at the Buffalo grocery

500
00:29:16,617 --> 00:29:21,417
Speaker 1: store shooter. If people actually go and read the murderer's

501
00:29:21,497 --> 00:29:25,657
Speaker 1: manifesto there, he actually talks about how he picked the

502
00:29:25,697 --> 00:29:28,377
Speaker 1: particular target that he did. He wanted to go to

503
00:29:28,417 --> 00:29:32,217
Speaker 1: a place where he knew the civilians there would not

504
00:29:32,417 --> 00:29:35,737
Speaker 1: have for many concealed handguns for protection because it would

505
00:29:35,777 --> 00:29:39,497
Speaker 1: make his job so much more difficult. And he's not

506
00:29:39,537 --> 00:29:42,497
Speaker 1: the only one. We have many cases where we've gone

507
00:29:42,497 --> 00:29:47,377
Speaker 1: through diaries or manifestos or other things that these murderers

508
00:29:47,697 --> 00:29:50,977
Speaker 1: and these mass public shootings have left over time. These

509
00:29:51,017 --> 00:29:54,257
Speaker 1: people may be crazy in some sense, but they're not stupid.

510
00:29:54,657 --> 00:29:56,937
Speaker 1: Their goal is to try to kill as many people

511
00:29:56,977 --> 00:29:59,497
Speaker 1: as possible, and if they go to a place where

512
00:29:59,577 --> 00:30:02,257
Speaker 1: victims aren't able to go and defend themselves, they're going

513
00:30:02,297 --> 00:30:04,457
Speaker 1: to be more successful. I mean, let me put it

514
00:30:04,497 --> 00:30:08,777
Speaker 1: to you this way. Let's say God forbid, somebody was

515
00:30:08,817 --> 00:30:11,577
Speaker 1: stalking you or your fami and it was really seriously

516
00:30:11,657 --> 00:30:14,737
Speaker 1: threatening you. Would you feel safe for putting a sign

517
00:30:14,777 --> 00:30:16,577
Speaker 1: in front of your home that said your home is

518
00:30:16,577 --> 00:30:18,657
Speaker 1: a gun free zone. Do you think that if the

519
00:30:18,897 --> 00:30:21,297
Speaker 1: attacker went up to the house and he said, well,

520
00:30:21,297 --> 00:30:23,977
Speaker 1: there are no guns allowed in this place, so I'm

521
00:30:24,017 --> 00:30:26,457
Speaker 1: not going to take my weapon in there, that that's

522
00:30:26,457 --> 00:30:30,177
Speaker 1: somehow going to determine if anything could have the opposite impact,

523
00:30:30,297 --> 00:30:33,417
Speaker 1: He would know that people in there weren't able to

524
00:30:33,457 --> 00:30:36,577
Speaker 1: defend themselves. Look at the penalty that you face for

525
00:30:36,697 --> 00:30:39,217
Speaker 1: taking a gun into a gun free zone like a school.

526
00:30:39,257 --> 00:30:42,057
Speaker 1: You face an additional two or three years in prison.

527
00:30:42,497 --> 00:30:45,097
Speaker 1: If somebody's going to go and kill twenty one people

528
00:30:45,297 --> 00:30:49,097
Speaker 1: in that place, you're already facing twenty one life sentences

529
00:30:49,217 --> 00:30:52,097
Speaker 1: or twenty one death penalties. Do you really think an

530
00:30:52,097 --> 00:30:54,937
Speaker 1: additional two or three year sentence is going to be

531
00:30:54,977 --> 00:30:56,937
Speaker 1: well that that's going to be what's going to keep

532
00:30:57,017 --> 00:31:00,737
Speaker 1: him from going and committing that crime. It's just ridiculous.

533
00:31:01,217 --> 00:31:04,217
Speaker 1: These guys want to kill as many people as possible,

534
00:31:04,257 --> 00:31:06,657
Speaker 1: and they know if they go to a place where

535
00:31:06,777 --> 00:31:09,457
Speaker 1: victims can't defend themselves, they're going to be able to

536
00:31:09,457 --> 00:31:12,497
Speaker 1: go and kill more people. Their goal is to try

537
00:31:12,497 --> 00:31:15,177
Speaker 1: to get media coverage. I'll give you an example. You

538
00:31:15,217 --> 00:31:17,777
Speaker 1: look at the Sandy Hook killer. He had done what

539
00:31:17,897 --> 00:31:21,617
Speaker 1: police described as essentially a doctoral dissertation where he had

540
00:31:21,617 --> 00:31:24,817
Speaker 1: looked at mass shootings over the previous forty years, not

541
00:31:24,897 --> 00:31:27,977
Speaker 1: only in the United States, but attacks around the world,

542
00:31:28,737 --> 00:31:33,177
Speaker 1: and he apparently had grafted out the relationship between the

543
00:31:33,257 --> 00:31:36,377
Speaker 1: number of people killed and attacks and the amount of

544
00:31:36,417 --> 00:31:39,417
Speaker 1: media coverage to god and his goal, according to one

545
00:31:39,457 --> 00:31:42,897
Speaker 1: police report, was to go and kill more people than

546
00:31:42,937 --> 00:31:47,657
Speaker 1: the Norway killer had killed because Norway killer, at that time,

547
00:31:47,897 --> 00:31:51,497
Speaker 1: this was before the Paris attack, had killed the most

548
00:31:51,817 --> 00:31:55,177
Speaker 1: people in a mass public shooting, and he believed that

549
00:31:55,217 --> 00:31:57,697
Speaker 1: if he could only kill more people than the Norway

550
00:31:58,057 --> 00:32:00,817
Speaker 1: person who killed sixty seven people with a gun, that

551
00:32:00,897 --> 00:32:05,337
Speaker 1: he could get even more worldwide media attention. John, I

552
00:32:05,337 --> 00:32:08,737
Speaker 1: want to also ask you about another gun control myth,

553
00:32:09,377 --> 00:32:13,697
Speaker 1: the idea that just aggregate gun ownership effectively, the more

554
00:32:13,737 --> 00:32:17,617
Speaker 1: people who own guns, the more crime there is with guns,

555
00:32:17,737 --> 00:32:19,697
Speaker 1: legal gun ownership we're talking about here. What can you

556
00:32:19,737 --> 00:32:24,577
Speaker 1: tell us about that, Well, that's simply not true. May

557
00:32:24,577 --> 00:32:27,817
Speaker 1: I'll give you a simple statistic. Net is, there are

558
00:32:27,817 --> 00:32:30,377
Speaker 1: a number of places around the world, not just in

559
00:32:30,417 --> 00:32:32,537
Speaker 1: the United States, that have either tried to ban all

560
00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:36,537
Speaker 1: guns or all handguns. People are experienced familiar with the

561
00:32:36,577 --> 00:32:42,097
Speaker 1: experiences in Chicago and Washington, d C. And yet every

562
00:32:42,137 --> 00:32:45,657
Speaker 1: single place that's banned either all guns or all handguns

563
00:32:45,777 --> 00:32:48,537
Speaker 1: has seen an increase in murder rates. Afterwards, you think,

564
00:32:48,577 --> 00:32:52,537
Speaker 1: out of randomness, once or twice, you'd at least get

565
00:32:52,577 --> 00:32:54,817
Speaker 1: the murder rates and homicide rates to go down or

566
00:32:54,817 --> 00:32:58,137
Speaker 1: at least stay the same. But yet every single time

567
00:32:58,137 --> 00:33:00,937
Speaker 1: it goes up, often by large amount. Now, in the

568
00:33:00,977 --> 00:33:05,417
Speaker 1: cases of Chicago and Washington, DC, gun control I advocates

569
00:33:05,417 --> 00:33:08,577
Speaker 1: will say, well, that really wasn't a fair test, because

570
00:33:08,657 --> 00:33:11,417
Speaker 1: unless you go and ban guns every place in the country,

571
00:33:11,617 --> 00:33:14,137
Speaker 1: criminals will still get guns from the rest of Illinois,

572
00:33:14,257 --> 00:33:18,057
Speaker 1: or from Indiana, or from Maryland and Virginia. You know,

573
00:33:18,097 --> 00:33:20,057
Speaker 1: the thing is one it would have been nice if

574
00:33:20,057 --> 00:33:22,017
Speaker 1: they had told us to begin with that they thought

575
00:33:22,057 --> 00:33:25,297
Speaker 1: that the experiment was going to fail. But two, the

576
00:33:25,697 --> 00:33:28,057
Speaker 1: problem that you face is that their countries around the

577
00:33:28,057 --> 00:33:31,017
Speaker 1: world that have banned either all guns or all handguns.

578
00:33:31,937 --> 00:33:34,617
Speaker 1: You have island nations that have done that that don't

579
00:33:34,657 --> 00:33:36,977
Speaker 1: have a neighbor that they can easily go and blame

580
00:33:37,737 --> 00:33:41,137
Speaker 1: for supplying the guns. And you see the same type

581
00:33:41,137 --> 00:33:45,177
Speaker 1: of panttern whether it be Jamaica or Ireland or the UK.

582
00:33:46,777 --> 00:33:49,377
Speaker 1: And the reason is pretty simple, and that is when

583
00:33:49,377 --> 00:33:51,017
Speaker 1: you go and you ban guns, you may make it

584
00:33:51,177 --> 00:33:54,577
Speaker 1: somewhat more difficult for some criminals to get guns, but

585
00:33:55,057 --> 00:33:58,097
Speaker 1: it's primarily going to be the most law abiding, good

586
00:33:58,217 --> 00:34:01,377
Speaker 1: citizens who obey the law and turning their guns. And

587
00:34:01,417 --> 00:34:05,777
Speaker 1: if you disarm law abiding citizens relative to criminals, you

588
00:34:05,897 --> 00:34:08,937
Speaker 1: actually make it easier for criminals to go and commit crimes.

589
00:34:08,937 --> 00:34:11,257
Speaker 1: They have less to worry about been doing it, and

590
00:34:11,337 --> 00:34:14,977
Speaker 1: they become bolder in terms of committing those types of crimes.

591
00:34:15,737 --> 00:34:17,937
Speaker 1: But you know, again, there are other ways you can

592
00:34:17,977 --> 00:34:21,337
Speaker 1: look at it. I personally find looking at lots of

593
00:34:21,377 --> 00:34:24,817
Speaker 1: different places over time a lot more convincing. You know,

594
00:34:24,897 --> 00:34:27,897
Speaker 1: one of the things that people will make comparisons with is.

595
00:34:27,897 --> 00:34:30,537
Speaker 1: They'll say, look at the United Kingdom in the United States.

596
00:34:30,897 --> 00:34:33,697
Speaker 1: The United Kingdom has very few homicides compared to the

597
00:34:33,777 --> 00:34:38,057
Speaker 1: United States, and they have extremely strict gun control laws.

598
00:34:38,577 --> 00:34:42,937
Speaker 1: Many types of guns like handguns and rifles or banned,

599
00:34:43,977 --> 00:34:46,937
Speaker 1: and yet they have a lower homicide rates. So it

600
00:34:47,017 --> 00:34:50,897
Speaker 1: must be the strict gun control laws that caused the

601
00:34:51,457 --> 00:34:55,577
Speaker 1: lower homicide rate. In fact, if you look before they

602
00:34:55,737 --> 00:34:59,217
Speaker 1: had the gun control laws there, they had even lower

603
00:34:59,297 --> 00:35:03,337
Speaker 1: homicide rates relative to the United States. That they're homicide

604
00:35:03,417 --> 00:35:05,857
Speaker 1: rates went up. They still may be lower than the

605
00:35:05,937 --> 00:35:08,697
Speaker 1: rate in the United States, but they went up relative

606
00:35:08,737 --> 00:35:11,537
Speaker 1: to what they had been before when they had those

607
00:35:11,577 --> 00:35:14,657
Speaker 1: types of strict gun control laws. That we're there. And

608
00:35:15,737 --> 00:35:18,537
Speaker 1: you know, I could go on just making other types

609
00:35:18,577 --> 00:35:21,977
Speaker 1: of comparisons across places, but I think it's pretty clear

610
00:35:22,497 --> 00:35:26,257
Speaker 1: that when you look at the data correctly, that there's

611
00:35:26,297 --> 00:35:31,617
Speaker 1: a very clear relationship. Look, police are extremely important. Anybody

612
00:35:31,617 --> 00:35:34,257
Speaker 1: who's ready my work knows that. I think police are

613
00:35:34,257 --> 00:35:37,777
Speaker 1: the single most important factor for reducing crime. But the

614
00:35:37,857 --> 00:35:41,497
Speaker 1: police themselves know that they virtually always arrived on the

615
00:35:41,577 --> 00:35:44,817
Speaker 1: crime scene after the crimes occurred. And the question is

616
00:35:44,817 --> 00:35:48,297
Speaker 1: what's the safest course of action for people to take police.

617
00:35:48,697 --> 00:35:50,017
Speaker 1: I want to get into this with you some more.

618
00:35:50,017 --> 00:35:51,817
Speaker 1: If we can just take a moment, you'll come back

619
00:35:51,857 --> 00:35:54,657
Speaker 1: into that issue and more of the gun control myths

620
00:35:54,697 --> 00:35:58,857
Speaker 1: that are out there in just a moment. Sure, it's

621
00:35:58,857 --> 00:36:01,337
Speaker 1: hard to talk about gun control without discussing the left.

622
00:36:01,497 --> 00:36:05,257
Speaker 1: Favorite target of it are fifteens, so called the salt weapons.

623
00:36:05,657 --> 00:36:08,737
Speaker 1: After the break, we'll separate fact from fiction behind America's

624
00:36:08,817 --> 00:36:11,777
Speaker 1: most popular rifle, this special edition of Hold the Line.

625
00:36:11,777 --> 00:36:30,257
Speaker 1: Stay with us, so listen. I think there's a difference

626
00:36:30,297 --> 00:36:33,297
Speaker 1: between what we should be doing and what is reasonable

627
00:36:33,337 --> 00:36:36,497
Speaker 1: to expect from this Congress. What we should be doing

628
00:36:36,617 --> 00:36:39,457
Speaker 1: is taking these weapons of war out of the hands

629
00:36:39,537 --> 00:36:44,217
Speaker 1: of civilians. In nineteen ninety four, then President Bill Clinton

630
00:36:44,297 --> 00:36:48,377
Speaker 1: signed the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which prohibited the manufactured, transfer,

631
00:36:48,497 --> 00:36:51,577
Speaker 1: or possession of semi automatic assault weapons, including the Air

632
00:36:51,657 --> 00:36:54,257
Speaker 1: fifteen and AK forty seven. The band expired in two

633
00:36:54,297 --> 00:36:57,937
Speaker 1: thousand and four, and gun control proponents like Senator Chris Murphy,

634
00:36:58,097 --> 00:36:59,577
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get it back on the books

635
00:36:59,657 --> 00:37:02,657
Speaker 1: ever since. But what would another assault weapons ban actually

636
00:37:02,657 --> 00:37:04,657
Speaker 1: mean for crime in this country? Joined me once again,

637
00:37:04,697 --> 00:37:07,057
Speaker 1: as the author of More Guns, Less Crime and the

638
00:37:07,057 --> 00:37:10,937
Speaker 1: president of the Crime Prevention Research Center John Lot John,

639
00:37:10,977 --> 00:37:15,417
Speaker 1: thanks for staying with us. Thank you. Let's start with definitions.

640
00:37:15,417 --> 00:37:18,337
Speaker 1: We hear the AR fifteen similar rifles being called weapons

641
00:37:18,377 --> 00:37:22,777
Speaker 1: of war. How does the government actually define an assault weapon?

642
00:37:24,577 --> 00:37:27,457
Speaker 1: I mean, with the original Assault Weapons Band, you had

643
00:37:28,017 --> 00:37:32,577
Speaker 1: Senator Guyan Feinstein's staff go through and look through canalogs

644
00:37:32,577 --> 00:37:36,137
Speaker 1: of guns and essentially but check marks next to guns

645
00:37:36,177 --> 00:37:40,857
Speaker 1: that they thought look particularly scary. They would also they

646
00:37:40,897 --> 00:37:43,537
Speaker 1: also had a definition where if guns had two or

647
00:37:43,577 --> 00:37:47,537
Speaker 1: more of a different combination like you know, threaded magazine,

648
00:37:47,577 --> 00:37:51,777
Speaker 1: threaded barrels, or you know, could hold a bayonet or

649
00:37:51,817 --> 00:37:55,617
Speaker 1: a grenade launcher or other things. I had two or

650
00:37:55,617 --> 00:37:59,897
Speaker 1: more of these different characteristics, than the guns would be banned. Look,

651
00:37:59,897 --> 00:38:02,497
Speaker 1: I mean, there's been a lot of academic research has

652
00:38:02,537 --> 00:38:04,937
Speaker 1: been done. There's been research that was even paid for

653
00:38:05,057 --> 00:38:10,017
Speaker 1: by the Clinton administration that simply hasn't found any benefits

654
00:38:10,097 --> 00:38:12,097
Speaker 1: shall impact in terms of any type of buy on

655
00:38:12,257 --> 00:38:15,777
Speaker 1: crime or any type of mass public shooting. There's a

656
00:38:15,777 --> 00:38:19,297
Speaker 1: simple reason for that, simply banning guns based on how

657
00:38:19,337 --> 00:38:21,297
Speaker 1: they look. I mean, they often refer to these as

658
00:38:21,377 --> 00:38:26,657
Speaker 1: military style weapons where the keyword is style. Look at me.

659
00:38:28,577 --> 00:38:31,457
Speaker 1: At least if you talked about banning guns based on

660
00:38:31,577 --> 00:38:34,417
Speaker 1: how they function, it might make some sense. The three

661
00:38:34,417 --> 00:38:37,137
Speaker 1: different types of guns out there. Generally, when you're talking

662
00:38:37,177 --> 00:38:41,257
Speaker 1: about rifles, there's manually loaded guns where you pull a trigger,

663
00:38:41,297 --> 00:38:43,537
Speaker 1: a bullet comes out, and then you have to physically

664
00:38:43,577 --> 00:38:46,897
Speaker 1: yourself put another bullet in the chamber. You have semi

665
00:38:46,977 --> 00:38:50,857
Speaker 1: automatic guns where one pull the trigger, one bullet comes out,

666
00:38:50,937 --> 00:38:53,977
Speaker 1: the gun reloads itself, one pull the trigger, one bullet

667
00:38:53,977 --> 00:38:57,377
Speaker 1: comes out, and so on, and then you have fully

668
00:38:57,417 --> 00:39:00,457
Speaker 1: automatic guns machine guns where as long as you have

669
00:39:00,497 --> 00:39:03,097
Speaker 1: the trigger depressed, bullets are going to come out. We're

670
00:39:03,137 --> 00:39:06,177
Speaker 1: not talking about machine guns here, despite many times the

671
00:39:06,257 --> 00:39:09,777
Speaker 1: media refers to them as that. We're talking about semi

672
00:39:09,857 --> 00:39:13,217
Speaker 1: ont guns. Eighty five percent of the handguns sold in

673
00:39:13,217 --> 00:39:18,337
Speaker 1: the United States are semi automatic guns. Very similar percentage

674
00:39:18,337 --> 00:39:21,137
Speaker 1: of rifles in the United States or semi automatic guns,

675
00:39:21,137 --> 00:39:25,137
Speaker 1: so the vast majority in If you're using a gun defensively,

676
00:39:25,657 --> 00:39:28,657
Speaker 1: having a semi automatic gun can be very beneficial if

677
00:39:28,697 --> 00:39:31,497
Speaker 1: you're facing more than one attacker and have to fire

678
00:39:31,537 --> 00:39:34,337
Speaker 1: the gun more than once, or you fire and miss,

679
00:39:35,017 --> 00:39:38,577
Speaker 1: or you fire and wound, but don't incapacitate the attacker.

680
00:39:39,057 --> 00:39:42,937
Speaker 1: You may be very thankful that the gun quickly reloads itself.

681
00:39:43,937 --> 00:39:46,617
Speaker 1: If you have to manually put another bull in the chamber,

682
00:39:46,657 --> 00:39:49,057
Speaker 1: you may not have the luxury of time to go

683
00:39:49,097 --> 00:39:51,497
Speaker 1: and fire the gun again. But here's the deal with

684
00:39:51,577 --> 00:39:57,137
Speaker 1: the AR fifteens. They're essentially hunting rifles that just look

685
00:39:57,337 --> 00:40:00,697
Speaker 1: on the outside like a military weapon. No military in

686
00:40:00,737 --> 00:40:04,817
Speaker 1: the world uses these guns. In fact, they're considered small

687
00:40:05,057 --> 00:40:10,577
Speaker 1: caliber hunting rifles. You know, point two two three, It

688
00:40:10,737 --> 00:40:14,257
Speaker 1: tells you the diameter of the bullet. It's a little

689
00:40:14,297 --> 00:40:18,097
Speaker 1: bit over point two two inches in diameter. People may

690
00:40:18,137 --> 00:40:21,937
Speaker 1: be familiar with twenty two caliber rifles that are there.

691
00:40:23,097 --> 00:40:25,937
Speaker 1: They know that in any type of mass production, that's

692
00:40:26,057 --> 00:40:31,177
Speaker 1: the most common small caliber bullet that you have. In fact,

693
00:40:31,257 --> 00:40:34,657
Speaker 1: most states won't allow you to use an air of

694
00:40:34,657 --> 00:40:38,097
Speaker 1: fifteen to go and hunt deer because the concern that

695
00:40:38,177 --> 00:40:40,817
Speaker 1: the caliber isn't large enough to make sure that you'll

696
00:40:40,897 --> 00:40:43,537
Speaker 1: kill the deer. It's more likely that you'll just end

697
00:40:43,617 --> 00:40:46,017
Speaker 1: up wounding the deer that's there. They don't want the

698
00:40:46,057 --> 00:40:52,457
Speaker 1: deer to run off and suffer someplace, but look to

699
00:40:52,617 --> 00:40:54,657
Speaker 1: go with John John. Let me ask, because because he

700
00:40:54,777 --> 00:41:00,897
Speaker 1: touched on this, The Biden administration line on this is

701
00:41:01,097 --> 00:41:03,297
Speaker 1: he will say we know what works, and he'll say

702
00:41:03,257 --> 00:41:05,897
Speaker 1: specific Joe Biden will say I was a part of

703
00:41:05,937 --> 00:41:08,897
Speaker 1: what worked, which was this nineteen ninety four assault weapons ban.

704
00:41:10,137 --> 00:41:12,297
Speaker 1: What data do they point to? I mean, I think

705
00:41:12,337 --> 00:41:15,137
Speaker 1: they say, well, there are fewer mass shootings after this.

706
00:41:15,417 --> 00:41:20,937
Speaker 1: Is that true? Well, okay, you may. If you look

707
00:41:20,977 --> 00:41:24,937
Speaker 1: at mass public shootings, you may, depending upon which data

708
00:41:24,977 --> 00:41:26,817
Speaker 1: set that you look at and how it's to find,

709
00:41:26,857 --> 00:41:29,777
Speaker 1: you may find a drop of one or two, you know,

710
00:41:29,817 --> 00:41:32,937
Speaker 1: in terms of the rate in the ten years before

711
00:41:33,097 --> 00:41:36,137
Speaker 1: versus the ten years after. Or you may find no,

712
00:41:36,377 --> 00:41:38,337
Speaker 1: you see no change in terms of the number of

713
00:41:38,377 --> 00:41:44,057
Speaker 1: attacks with assault weapons. You know, it's not statistically significant.

714
00:41:44,137 --> 00:41:47,337
Speaker 1: It's very tiny, even if you use the data sets

715
00:41:47,377 --> 00:41:49,257
Speaker 1: that they want, with the way that they want to

716
00:41:49,257 --> 00:41:52,257
Speaker 1: go and selectively define the things that are there. But

717
00:41:52,777 --> 00:41:56,057
Speaker 1: even if you use the data sets and the way

718
00:41:56,097 --> 00:41:58,617
Speaker 1: they want to use it, there's another way to look

719
00:41:58,657 --> 00:42:01,817
Speaker 1: at it, and that is to go and look at

720
00:42:01,857 --> 00:42:05,417
Speaker 1: the percent of mass public shootings involving assault weapons. So

721
00:42:05,497 --> 00:42:08,577
Speaker 1: even if you take their numbers, okay, the way that

722
00:42:08,657 --> 00:42:11,977
Speaker 1: they want. What you find is that the percentage of

723
00:42:12,017 --> 00:42:17,897
Speaker 1: attack using assault weapons actually rose during the time that

724
00:42:17,977 --> 00:42:21,097
Speaker 1: there was the assault weapons ban and fell afterwards. So

725
00:42:21,137 --> 00:42:24,697
Speaker 1: if the band is going to be responsible for any drop,

726
00:42:24,817 --> 00:42:27,777
Speaker 1: no matter how tiny it is, then surely the share

727
00:42:28,457 --> 00:42:30,817
Speaker 1: of attack using assault weapons is going to have to

728
00:42:30,897 --> 00:42:35,057
Speaker 1: fall over that period of time. And the opposite is true,

729
00:42:35,177 --> 00:42:37,177
Speaker 1: because there's no way it's going to be driving the

730
00:42:37,297 --> 00:42:39,857
Speaker 1: drop in the total if the share, if you don't

731
00:42:39,897 --> 00:42:42,977
Speaker 1: have a relatively bigger drop in the number of attacks

732
00:42:42,977 --> 00:42:46,617
Speaker 1: with assault weapons that are there, and so you know

733
00:42:46,697 --> 00:42:52,177
Speaker 1: it just they I can't tell you the number. There's

734
00:42:52,217 --> 00:42:55,297
Speaker 1: been dozens of studies that have been done looking at this.

735
00:42:55,777 --> 00:43:02,497
Speaker 1: There's one guy named Rivas who's professor at the Teaching

736
00:43:02,577 --> 00:43:07,337
Speaker 1: College at Columbia who's done work on this is his

737
00:43:07,377 --> 00:43:11,697
Speaker 1: own definition of these things, different from Jones and myself

738
00:43:11,737 --> 00:43:14,337
Speaker 1: and others that have put together these types of data,

739
00:43:14,537 --> 00:43:16,897
Speaker 1: and he's the one that they cite. But even if

740
00:43:16,897 --> 00:43:20,737
Speaker 1: he use his work, it's not a statistically significant drop.

741
00:43:20,777 --> 00:43:23,457
Speaker 1: It's like a drop of like one or two between

742
00:43:23,457 --> 00:43:26,937
Speaker 1: those periods of time. And even with his share of

743
00:43:26,977 --> 00:43:30,257
Speaker 1: attacks with the salt weapons goes up during the band

744
00:43:30,417 --> 00:43:33,017
Speaker 1: and then falls when the band ends. So, John, I

745
00:43:33,017 --> 00:43:36,257
Speaker 1: got to ask you before before we close here, what

746
00:43:36,297 --> 00:43:39,857
Speaker 1: does your extensive research many years on this topic tell

747
00:43:40,897 --> 00:43:45,577
Speaker 1: tell you and therefore all of us, about what would

748
00:43:45,617 --> 00:43:51,337
Speaker 1: actually be effective at reducing violence with violence with firearms

749
00:43:51,337 --> 00:43:55,737
Speaker 1: in America? What actually helps bring that down? Well, it's

750
00:43:55,737 --> 00:43:57,857
Speaker 1: not rocket science. You want to make it risking for

751
00:43:57,937 --> 00:44:00,097
Speaker 1: people to go and commit crimes if you want to.

752
00:44:00,457 --> 00:44:03,177
Speaker 1: First of all, people need to know that less than

753
00:44:03,257 --> 00:44:06,937
Speaker 1: eight percent of violent crime involves guns. Okay, I know

754
00:44:07,097 --> 00:44:10,617
Speaker 1: Biden wants to talk about violent crime is so a

755
00:44:10,697 --> 00:44:14,217
Speaker 1: gun problem there. But the way you reduce violent crime

756
00:44:14,297 --> 00:44:17,057
Speaker 1: generally is the same way that you reduce violent crime

757
00:44:17,097 --> 00:44:20,377
Speaker 1: with guns. You have higher rest rates, higher conviction rates.

758
00:44:20,457 --> 00:44:23,817
Speaker 1: So when Biden went to New York in February for

759
00:44:23,897 --> 00:44:27,257
Speaker 1: his fourth big speech on violent crime, if it were me,

760
00:44:27,857 --> 00:44:30,697
Speaker 1: I would have had a Sister Soldier type moment. I

761
00:44:30,737 --> 00:44:33,777
Speaker 1: would say, look, you guys cut the police budget by

762
00:44:33,817 --> 00:44:36,977
Speaker 1: a billion dollars a year. Is it surprising you get

763
00:44:36,977 --> 00:44:40,137
Speaker 1: more crime. You have district attorneys who are refusing to

764
00:44:40,217 --> 00:44:43,937
Speaker 1: prosecute violent criminals. You have over half the inmates being

765
00:44:43,937 --> 00:44:47,417
Speaker 1: released from local jails during this period. Time you have

766
00:44:47,537 --> 00:44:51,537
Speaker 1: bail reform so that violent criminals are being let out

767
00:44:51,537 --> 00:44:54,697
Speaker 1: on no bail. You know, here you have people that

768
00:44:54,777 --> 00:45:00,417
Speaker 1: have committed attempted murder okay, who are facing multiple felonies,

769
00:45:00,537 --> 00:45:02,857
Speaker 1: who are going to be facing decades in jail if

770
00:45:02,857 --> 00:45:06,017
Speaker 1: they're convicted. What did you know and you let them

771
00:45:06,057 --> 00:45:09,497
Speaker 1: out on no bail? What's their cost for taking doing

772
00:45:09,497 --> 00:45:12,497
Speaker 1: another crime? I mean, if you're already facing twenty five

773
00:45:12,617 --> 00:45:15,937
Speaker 1: or thirty years potential prison term, what am I going

774
00:45:15,977 --> 00:45:18,337
Speaker 1: to do? Is the second life sentence I'm going to

775
00:45:18,417 --> 00:45:20,617
Speaker 1: give you going to be the sentence is going to

776
00:45:21,657 --> 00:45:25,057
Speaker 1: law enforcement and basically the opposite of the trajectory of

777
00:45:25,097 --> 00:45:29,177
Speaker 1: the progressive prosecutors and the Democrats. The Democrat matt and

778
00:45:29,337 --> 00:45:33,017
Speaker 1: mass incarceration Lineman here for years, John, always appreciate your work.

779
00:45:33,017 --> 00:45:35,697
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us, Thank you for being there

780
00:45:35,697 --> 00:45:37,857
Speaker 1: and getting rid of gun free zones with regard to

781
00:45:37,937 --> 00:45:41,057
Speaker 1: man's public shootings. But thank you for being there. Thank you.

782
00:45:42,457 --> 00:45:44,017
Speaker 1: That's all the time we have for the special edition

783
00:45:44,057 --> 00:45:45,497
Speaker 1: of Hold the Line. I'd like to thank my guest

784
00:45:45,617 --> 00:45:48,697
Speaker 1: Cam Edwards and John Lott for sharing their deep expertise

785
00:45:48,777 --> 00:45:51,617
Speaker 1: on this issue. Bill O'Reilly is up next. As always,

786
00:45:52,017 --> 00:46:03,577
Speaker 1: Fields High. Each morning, the President of the United States

787
00:46:03,617 --> 00:46:06,817
Speaker 1: receives a highly classified briefing on the most important issues

788
00:46:06,857 --> 00:46:10,777
Speaker 1: facing the country. It's called the President's Daily Brief PDB.

789
00:46:10,977 --> 00:46:14,217
Speaker 1: It's delivered by America's spies and analysts. Well, now you

790
00:46:14,257 --> 00:46:17,057
Speaker 1: can hear your very own PDB in the form of

791
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Speaker 1: a podcast hosted by me Brian Dean Wright, a former

792
00:46:20,417 --> 00:46:24,137
Speaker 1: CIA operations officer. Each morning at six am Eastern, I'll

793
00:46:24,137 --> 00:46:26,497
Speaker 1: bring you fifteen to twenty minutes of the most important

794
00:46:26,537 --> 00:46:29,697
Speaker 1: issues facing the country, giving you the critical intelligence and

795
00:46:29,737 --> 00:46:32,537
Speaker 1: analysis you need to start your morning.