Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: Okay, my friend and somebody I admire greatly, Ian O'Connor
Speaker 2: has a new book out on Aaron Rodgers. And before
Speaker 2: we get to that, I want you to grab your
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Speaker 2: minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Well, I only get the
Speaker 2: opportunity a couple times a year because he's the hardest
Speaker 2: working man in print journalism in America. You know, Connor,
Speaker 2: my friend, He's got a book. I cannot wait to
Speaker 2: read it. I've already had several shots at several chapters
Speaker 2: and it's so in depth. It's called Out of the Darkness,
Speaker 2: The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers. It comes out next month.
Speaker 2: You know what, As she've written this book, it helped
Speaker 2: me to laugh. But Aaron's like a story a week.
Speaker 2: Guy at I keep thinking, do you have to keep
Speaker 2: doing updates for the book?
Speaker 1: I did, actually, Colin, and thank you very much for
Speaker 1: the kind words I handed in the book in January.
Speaker 1: And at that point, after asking to get him for
Speaker 1: months and getting no response or being told he's thinking
Speaker 1: about it, assuming at that point he's not going to
Speaker 1: talk to me. And generally my biographies they've been unauthorized
Speaker 1: with limited or no cooperation from the main subject. So
Speaker 1: and then in February I got a message from the Jets, well,
Speaker 1: he's actually now willing to talk to you. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be a ten hour sit down where
Speaker 1: he told me his life story, but it was more
Speaker 1: a fact checking hour or two. So I got two
Speaker 1: hours with him and great, So he answered some questions,
Speaker 1: he made the book better, and then after that you
Speaker 1: had the RFK Junior story drop that, you had the
Speaker 1: Sandy Hook conspiracy story drop, and then some podcasts he
Speaker 1: did after my access to him, where more conspiracies were
Speaker 1: talked about, and so listen Aaron Rodgers. He was a
Speaker 1: very difficult subject to get your arms around. I thought
Speaker 1: Belichick was tough, but compared to Rogers, I think Belichick
Speaker 1: was a walk in the park because he was a
Speaker 1: mystery that I felt like there was a sameness to
Speaker 1: it at the same time, and he was right in
Speaker 1: front of me, and I always felt that Rogers was
Speaker 1: a moving target, and so it was a challenge and
Speaker 1: hopefully I conquered it. I guess the readers will will
Speaker 1: let me know if I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, complex people are interesting, and
Speaker 2: I've said Aaron's really good content for me. There are
Speaker 2: parts of Aaron that I've said on the show before.
Speaker 2: My theory on Aaron. One of them is he just
Speaker 2: pushes back on authority. His family was very religious. He
Speaker 2: pushed back on it. He pushed back on the Packers,
Speaker 2: He's pushed back on the media. He's pushed back on
Speaker 2: the government vaccines. Whether that's a good quality or not,
Speaker 2: it can be unsettling to people covering him. But my
Speaker 2: belief is he's a non conformist. Many of the people
Speaker 2: in our lives, musicians and artists we have celebrated, are
Speaker 2: non conformists. Is there a bit of artistry to his personality.
Speaker 2: That's probably the wrong word, but in my life we
Speaker 2: have often celebrated there's a construct of football that we
Speaker 2: want organizational, dependable, reliable personalities. And is it arguable or
Speaker 2: debatable he's more of an artist in a structured sport.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. And I'm used to Eli Manning
Speaker 1: that model that Eli Manning Derek Jeter in New York
Speaker 1: and Aaron is the complete opposite of that. And so,
Speaker 1: but there is an art to creating a news cycle
Speaker 1: rolling out of bed, and that's what he can do.
Speaker 1: He can do that better than anyone else. Maybe in
Speaker 1: all sports. He can create a news cycle like that. So,
Speaker 1: and we've seen that over the years. And I think
Speaker 1: he loves being interesting. I think he loves being talked about.
Speaker 1: He loves being analyzed. I don't think he loves the
Speaker 1: way the news media has treated him in recent years.
Speaker 1: I think his viewpoints politically generally are in contrast with
Speaker 1: what he believes is the liberal media, largely liberal media,
Speaker 1: and he's right for the most part. And you look
Speaker 1: at him, though, what's interesting is his life, his public life.
Speaker 1: Colin changed with COVID because before COVID and the I've
Speaker 1: Been Immunized press conference in August of twenty one, he
Speaker 1: was not considered a villain. He was a guy who
Speaker 1: is very socially aware. Back to Colin Kaepernick and the
Speaker 1: right to kneel in protest, he actually rebuked the fan
Speaker 1: who screamed out or shouted out an anti Muslim slur
Speaker 1: in the middle of the national anthem. I think it
Speaker 1: was right after the Paris terrorist attacks and got a
Speaker 1: letter of congratulation, congratulations or thanks or appreciation from President Obama.
Speaker 1: Mina Kimes had that, and so he was sort of
Speaker 1: known as as an athlete who was socially aware and
Speaker 1: engaged in the issues and really on the right side
Speaker 1: of the issues. And all of a sudden, COVID and
Speaker 1: his stance against vaccines changed everything for him in terms
Speaker 1: of his public image.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, he wasn't the only person
Speaker 2: to do that. I don't view him as a conservative.
Speaker 2: I view him as more of a contrarian, a little
Speaker 2: bit of a Joe Rogan. Rogan's never had Trump on
Speaker 2: his podcast. He says he doesn't want him. And I
Speaker 2: think Aaron has said, you know about like Trump, who's
Speaker 2: the ultimate like alpha Republican, which is like he didn't
Speaker 2: drain the swamp. It's just a different from swamp. So
Speaker 2: I think sometimes we view Aaron through a political prism
Speaker 2: and I just see him as a nonconformist. And I
Speaker 2: think it probably that stuff. At some point. You can
Speaker 2: trace it back to his childhood, and let's pivot to that.
Speaker 2: You wrote the book. What do we know about his childhood?
Speaker 1: He was raised in a very conservative Christian evangelical home.
Speaker 1: And I think I talked to a family member, and
Speaker 1: you know, of course, for the better part of ten years,
Speaker 1: he has not had any contact with his immediate family,
Speaker 1: his two brothers, right, so I think he ultimately And
Speaker 1: one family member told me that this person felt that
Speaker 1: when he went to Berkeley, when he went to cal
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, he leaves this cocoon, this
Speaker 1: small town in northern California, overwhelmingly white, Chico, California, and
Speaker 1: is at cal Berkeley, this global institution, pot of ideas
Speaker 1: and races and nationalities, and just got exposed to a
Speaker 1: lot of different things and beliefs, and that that really
Speaker 1: inspired a rebellion against those Christian beliefs that he was
Speaker 1: raised with, and that that rebellion inspired other rebellions against
Speaker 1: other things. And I had a good friend of his
Speaker 1: when he was younger say to me, we all we
Speaker 1: believed in magic. Aaron and I did, and together we
Speaker 1: talked about that. And when you believe in magic, you
Speaker 1: believe in the possibility of almost everything. And this person
Speaker 1: felt that that opened the door to conspiracy theories too.
Speaker 1: And listen, he he studied the JFK assassination as a
Speaker 1: sophomore in high school. He was fascinated by it, came
Speaker 1: to believe that was a conspiracy that involved a government agency,
Speaker 1: and that inspired other conspiracy theories as well. So I
Speaker 1: think right now he actually told me that religion is
Speaker 1: really a small part of the estrangement that But I
Speaker 1: do think that if you go back to his childhood,
Speaker 1: certainly he now does not consider him self religious. He
Speaker 1: considers himself spiritual. But I think you see the seeds
Speaker 1: of rebellion planet in his own rebellion against those beliefs
Speaker 1: that he now does not hold.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There, I'm gonna throw this out and you can
Speaker 2: latch onto this, and if there's any story in the
Speaker 2: book that corroborates or refutes this, go ahead. But I've
Speaker 2: said one of the statistics with Aaron that doesn't make
Speaker 2: a lot of sense on the surface is his lack
Speaker 2: of come from behind wins. In the NFL twenty one
Speaker 2: playoff games he has won that would be low for
Speaker 2: a bad quarterback. He's an all time great and I've
Speaker 2: often used, you know, maybe it's tried a little glib.
Speaker 2: He's more of a Baylor than a baller. Is that
Speaker 2: when he plays poorly early, he quits that he's not
Speaker 2: a fox hole guy, He's just brilliantly gifted. Jeter was
Speaker 2: more of a leader, a Rod was more talented. Brady's
Speaker 2: more of a leader, Aaron's just more talent. And that
Speaker 2: I look at him, that there's a lack of fundamental,
Speaker 2: lack of trust in a process, and when he struggles
Speaker 2: early in games, his body language shifts. When he trails
Speaker 2: late in games, there's a lack of trust for the
Speaker 2: play calling. And that's part of his personality. It's the
Speaker 2: only thing I can figure out and decipher why a
Speaker 2: gifted quarterback in twenty one playoff games has only one
Speaker 2: come from behind win. Does any of this line up
Speaker 2: with some of his unique personality quirks or his fundamental
Speaker 2: base personality.
Speaker 1: Well, when he was younger, he was a fearless postseason player.
Speaker 1: And I think what he won four of his first
Speaker 1: five postseason games, and the throw he made to beat
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl, the third down throw over
Speaker 1: the middle to Jennings, is one of the great throws
Speaker 1: in Super Bowl history. On third down. If that passes incomplete,
Speaker 1: I think the Steelers win that Super Bowl. And so
Speaker 1: he makes that play and other plays in that game
Speaker 1: and in that postseason run. If you go back Colin
Speaker 1: as I did, of course, and looked at particularly the
Speaker 1: game against Atlanta and the playoffs that year that he
Speaker 1: won it, you cannot play the position at a higher
Speaker 1: level than that. Right, He had some Alan Iverson type
Speaker 1: ankle breaking moves to escape guys in the pocket that
Speaker 1: were just unbelievable, and the throws he made and just
Speaker 1: the way he played in that game was it was art.
Speaker 1: It was just hard to believe somebody could play at
Speaker 1: that level. And after watching that game and seeing him
Speaker 1: win the Super Bowl, it is really hard still after
Speaker 1: studying his career in his life, to come to grips
Speaker 1: with the fact that the Packers could not figure out
Speaker 1: a way to win a second rate with this guy.
Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable. One thing I'll point out, so this
Speaker 1: doesn't really relate to his upbringing or character traits, but
Speaker 1: he listen, if they recover an onside kick, He's in
Speaker 1: the second Super Bowl. They don't recover an onside kick,
Speaker 1: and didn't do six other things in the final minutes
Speaker 1: of that game. And by the way, and by the way,
Speaker 1: that comeback drive to tie and send it into overtime
Speaker 1: against Seattle is totally forgotten. Was an amazing drive by
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers to get that game into overtime after the
Speaker 1: team and really the coaching staff around him fell apart.
Speaker 1: So that doesn't count because they lost, but just in
Speaker 1: that building, the loudest building in the NFL, after the
Speaker 1: rest of the team really folded around him to drive
Speaker 1: that team down the field to force overtime and lose
Speaker 1: it basically on a coin toss. So that's a tough one.
Speaker 1: Because they get to the Super Bowl that year. They
Speaker 1: had beaten New England in the regular season, so they
Speaker 1: would have a lot of confidence against Brady in the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl that year. But he did not have Belichick. Okay,
Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy was not a bad coach, but he's not
Speaker 1: even close to Belichick. Tom Brady also had the best
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator of his generation, and Brady had this great
Speaker 1: system that Belichick created, and Aaron Rodgers had a slightly
Speaker 1: better than average head coach and didn't have that system
Speaker 1: or offensive coordinator a lot of times, didn't have a
Speaker 1: great defense. And so I think that's that. Hey, it's there,
Speaker 1: and it's part of his legacy. The lack of comeback
Speaker 1: victory certainly is right there on his record, but he
Speaker 1: very easily, in a different situation would have the multiple
Speaker 1: rings that he doesn't have right now that everybody holds
Speaker 1: against him, and he has a part in that too.
Speaker 1: There were postseason victories that he left on the field
Speaker 1: that he could have made a play to overcome somebody else,
Speaker 1: and he didn't do that, and that is part of
Speaker 1: his record as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's been fairly portrayed as a quarterback
Speaker 2: as Marino level gifted, we're wanting more postseason success, a
Speaker 2: little prickly, personally indifferent, but an all time great, and
Speaker 2: I think that's incredibly fair. I always preferred him over
Speaker 2: far Of. I thought he could play instructure and out
Speaker 2: of it, whereas I thought Brett was arder to coach
Speaker 2: and a little bit more of an old style gunslinger,
Speaker 2: where Aaron could do a little bit of that but
Speaker 2: also played in structure very very well. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's been unfairly criticized. I do think, like a Joe Rogan,
Speaker 2: when you're a news maker, the media are filled full
Speaker 2: of human beings, they tend to take sides. There does
Speaker 2: feel like a little bit of a negative pivot off Aaron.
Speaker 2: Do you think he will often say it doesn't affect him.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's had a corrosive effect on his
Speaker 2: personality in some of his acts.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think that's a fair way to
Speaker 1: look at it, Colin and Listen, he's brought a lot
Speaker 1: of this on himself, and I think he's for a
Speaker 1: guy as smart as he is, a guy who had
Speaker 1: thirteen ten on his SATs and is very thoughtful and
Speaker 1: engaging and can talk about so many different things. He's
Speaker 1: intellectually curious, and I've always thought he's one of the best,
Speaker 1: if not the best interviews in the league. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: always he's a great talker, but he has said some
Speaker 1: things that he's had to take back, and I think like,
Speaker 1: for instance, the Jimmy Kimmel thing on McAfee. Right, So,
Speaker 1: he did not go on the program that day planning
Speaker 1: to talk about Epstein and Jimmy Kimmel and the Epstein list,
Speaker 1: but A J Hawk, one of his good friends, blurted
Speaker 1: it out a question. And obviously that show is very
Speaker 1: free flowing and McFee does a great job with it.
Speaker 1: But it's the way he responded to aj Hawk off
Speaker 1: the cuff on the fly that got him in trouble,
Speaker 1: and I think he was very careless with his words.
Speaker 1: I actually believe he was not trying to say that
Speaker 1: he thought Kimmel was on the list. I think he's
Speaker 1: always been waiting for an opportunity to get back at
Speaker 1: Kimmell form making fun of him previously on his show
Speaker 1: regarding Aaron's belief or he suggested that all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we're getting all this information out of the government about
Speaker 1: UFOs to divert attention away from the Epstein list, and
Speaker 1: kim Ol mocked him for that, so he was trying
Speaker 1: to get back at him. But the way he said it,
Speaker 1: if you didn't know the context in the background, you
Speaker 1: would believe that Aaron Rodgers was suggesting that Jimmy Kimmel
Speaker 1: was going to be on that list, and of course
Speaker 1: he wasn't, so he put himself in that position. He
Speaker 1: got himself in trouble, and it was just once you
Speaker 1: try to explain it days later, as he tried to do,
Speaker 1: you've lost. You know that, once you have to expel
Speaker 1: something like that, you've already lost. And so there are
Speaker 1: cases like that in his career. That are dumbfounding, because
Speaker 1: he is a very intelligent guy, and so I'd say
Speaker 1: that he has brought a fair amount of that on himself.
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Speaker 2: The book is called Out of the Darkness. The Mystery
Speaker 2: of Aaron Rodgers comes out next month. What part of
Speaker 2: the book was the most interesting for you. There's there's
Speaker 2: his grandfather, there's his parents, there's his childhood, there's Berkeley,
Speaker 2: there's Green Bay, there's sitting behind FARV, there's taking over
Speaker 2: for FARV. There's the prime years, there's the departure, the
Speaker 2: exit from Green Bay. Was there a part of the
Speaker 2: book that you you really there were surprises, There were
Speaker 2: left turns that you really found you were as you
Speaker 2: were compiling the information writing it. It was easy to write.
Speaker 2: You really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: At the chapter one community college is one year and
Speaker 1: at JUCO.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's great, it's great.
Speaker 1: I love that his coach, Craig Rigsby, is the Charles
Speaker 1: Barkley of JUCO coaches. He was a great chapter, great character,
Speaker 1: Thank you. And so. But I would say the story
Speaker 1: that I really actually enjoyed researching and reporting on the
Speaker 1: most was about his grandfather, because you know, I had
Speaker 1: heard him passing it. Occasionally. You'd see it briefly mentioned
Speaker 1: in a story that his grandfather served in World War Two,
Speaker 1: and that was pretty much the extent of it. You
Speaker 1: might see an occasional reference to the fact that he
Speaker 1: was a POW. And so in Finding there's a guy
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis named Dan Matthews who's a military records expert.
Speaker 1: And this guy was gold and he found a lot
Speaker 1: of this for me. I found some of it as well,
Speaker 1: but documenting every mission that Edward Rogers flew as a
Speaker 1: B twenty Wow combat pilot, and including one on Saint
Speaker 1: Patrick's Day in nineteen forty four where his plane was
Speaker 1: hit multiple times. His engine on the left side, one
Speaker 1: of the four engines is on fire. He's flying over
Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany, and the rest of his squadron they
Speaker 1: weren't abandoning him, but it was protocols part of their mission.
Speaker 1: They had to peel off and go to the next
Speaker 1: stage of the mission. And he was all alone, on
Speaker 1: fire over Germany in a B twenty four that he
Speaker 1: was flying with ten men aboard, and he had to
Speaker 1: make decisions, and he said, I felt like the loneliest
Speaker 1: man in the world flying off Nazi Germany. And so
Speaker 1: the story is he somehow flew that plane back to
Speaker 1: the American base in Italy. They got down safely, so
Speaker 1: effectively he saved eleven lives, including his own. And I
Speaker 1: wanted to open the book with that chapter because there's
Speaker 1: so much negativity about his family that I wanted to
Speaker 1: actually write a positive story about his family. And his
Speaker 1: grandfather was an amazing combat pilot who flew forty four missions,
Speaker 1: forty three of them successful against Hitler's war machine shot
Speaker 1: down on the forty fourth, was beaten and mistreated as
Speaker 1: a pow, told war crimes investigators of his mistreatment, and
Speaker 1: we have all of that in the book, and I
Speaker 1: think that actually was my favorite chapter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's by the way, it is such an impressive
Speaker 2: feat of reporting. I was a bit in awe of
Speaker 2: you reading that chapter. I sometimes, you know, Walter Isaacson
Speaker 2: will do this, you will do this.
Speaker 1: I'm not. Don't mention me in the same sense with it,
Speaker 1: but thank you.
Speaker 2: I've sometimes you guys that write these books, you just
Speaker 2: go a mile deep, and I'm jealous of not only
Speaker 2: the time you have to do it, but your ability
Speaker 2: to find it, bring it to light and tell it artfully.
Speaker 2: I just think it's so fascinating now. I always thought
Speaker 2: there was such a unique, interesting contrast between this great
Speaker 2: looking hipster that went to Berkeley that ends up in
Speaker 2: Green Bay, Wisconsin, the smallest talking about the loneliest places
Speaker 2: in the NFL. Do you think Aaron on a social level,
Speaker 2: what was Green Bay like for him? That's always been fascinating.
Speaker 2: I know, he goes to Malibu in the off season,
Speaker 2: but for about twenty weeks, you live in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: Didn't you think he liked it appreciated it.
Speaker 1: He did. And it's funny because after he got drafted,
Speaker 1: of course, he's very disappointed that he plunged in the
Speaker 1: first round. He was supposed to a lot of people
Speaker 1: thought he should have gone number one to his childhood
Speaker 1: team San Francisco. That was his dream. The Niners pick
Speaker 1: Alex Smith instead, so he falls to twenty four to
Speaker 1: Green Bay and Thomas Weatherspoon, former NCAA champion sprinter, was
Speaker 1: a trainer for Aaron Rodgers. A guy made him faster,
Speaker 1: and he said to him, this is great. This is
Speaker 1: like Chico with snow and they Green Bay quarterbacks. In
Speaker 1: Green Bay, they're gonna build a statue for you and
Speaker 1: they're gonna love you to death, and there's no better
Speaker 1: place to be. So this plunge in the first round
Speaker 1: is really a blessing in disguise, and I think Aaron
Speaker 1: saw that. And now I don't think the Green Bay
Speaker 1: community embraced him like it embraced Brett Farr, because they
Speaker 1: saw Farv is one of us, even though he was
Speaker 1: from the South, yes, right, hunter fisherman, hanging out with
Speaker 1: the boys in the bar, high fiving fans over a
Speaker 1: beer by everyone around in the bar until of course
Speaker 1: he went into until he got sober, and and then
Speaker 1: that changed a little bit. But yeah, they saw he
Speaker 1: is one of us, and I don't think they ever
Speaker 1: saw Rogers as one of us. But I think it
Speaker 1: was a really good fit for him, coming from a
Speaker 1: small market, being overlooked, coming a juco guy, and then
Speaker 1: he ends up in Green Bay and it really was
Speaker 1: a great marriage, even though it wasn't the same relationship
Speaker 1: with the fans that Farv had. And it just can't
Speaker 1: believe that they only won oneampionship with him when you
Speaker 1: look at the talent, and some of it is his fault,
Speaker 1: but it's a shame. And really, at the end for
Speaker 1: John Elway, he got a second ring, got his first
Speaker 1: ring in a second ring at the end of his career,
Speaker 1: and Peyton Manning got that second ring right at the
Speaker 1: end of his career. And I think that it would
Speaker 1: be a good thing really to see Aaron Rodgers get
Speaker 1: that second ring before he retires, because he's too good
Speaker 1: to retire with one ring. Thankfully, he's got one and
Speaker 1: not zero, because we'd be really destroying him for that.
Speaker 1: But he really should retire with multiple rings. And hey, listen,
Speaker 1: the Jet fan base is the most fatalistic fan base
Speaker 1: I've ever encountered, and at some point it's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Entering the two thousand and four season, the Red Sox
Speaker 1: fan base thought it would never happen, and it did.
Speaker 1: Entering twenty sixteen, the Cubs fan base thought it would
Speaker 1: never happen, and it did. The New York Ranger fan
Speaker 1: base in ninety four thought it would never happen, and
Speaker 1: it did. So at some point it will happen for
Speaker 1: the Jets. Hopefully it'll be this year.
Speaker 2: So when you gave me the early to middle chapters
Speaker 2: of the book, and it's the kind of stuff folks,
Speaker 2: you just pick a weekend when it's raining in the
Speaker 2: fall and sit and read. It's just easy to devour.
Speaker 2: I did not get the final chapters. Is there much
Speaker 2: in it about the Jets? It's a very brief part
Speaker 2: of his career, and if anything is there, the relationship
Speaker 2: with Sola, two good looking young guys, appear to be
Speaker 2: very strong early. I wonder if it's as strong today,
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Think it is. He didn't say that, so I want
Speaker 1: to make that clear. I did talk to him about
Speaker 1: the Jets, the experience. I do have a lot on
Speaker 1: the Jets in the book. Of course, that's at the
Speaker 1: end of the book. And I think that when they
Speaker 1: met that five hour meeting, when the Jets sent that
Speaker 1: delegation out to Malibu to try to convince him to
Speaker 1: force the trade to New York, he spent most of
Speaker 1: his time with Salah in that meeting. Everybody else is
Speaker 1: sort of hanging out on the backyard deck overlooking the
Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean. But so I think he still has a
Speaker 1: good He always had a good relationship with Sala I
Speaker 1: still think it's strong. But they all know they're getting
Speaker 1: fired if they don't make the playoffs this year. And
Speaker 1: I think Aaron certainly has to question this guy's ability
Speaker 1: as a head coach. I think he's a great guy,
Speaker 1: and I think he is a guy if I were
Speaker 1: an owner of an NFL team, I would want to
Speaker 1: employ him. But as a defensive coordinator, he has not
Speaker 1: proven that he can be a good head coach. He
Speaker 1: hasn't done it. So Aaron knows that. So I think
Speaker 1: he still likes him, still has maybe some belief in him,
Speaker 1: not as much as when he signed on, But yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this book has a lot of Jet material
Speaker 1: in it, particularly how to play Unfolded where he got hurt.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't have happened. I explain why he talks in
Speaker 1: Deep Tale about that play. Wow ways that listen. Garrett
Speaker 1: Wilson was open and so obviously the cut block technique.
Speaker 1: I think the Athletic had a story about how Aaron
Speaker 1: Is never liked cut blocking, and I talked to him
Speaker 1: about that. And Dwayne Brown missed the cup block on
Speaker 1: Leonard Floyd. That creates an opportunity. And it really was
Speaker 1: an amazing night being in the building. I've never experienced
Speaker 1: a more charged regular season crowd, not just for the Jets,
Speaker 1: in my almost forty years of covering sports in New York,
Speaker 1: any team. I mean that night, that crowd was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And to see it taken away four snaps in like that,
Speaker 1: it was hard. It was hard to take. I was
Speaker 1: getting text messages from friends, I feel terrible, your book
Speaker 1: is dead and I didn't care about my book. I
Speaker 1: felt heartsick for the fans and for him to be there.
Speaker 2: In that point. Yeah, yeah, I remember the next day
Speaker 2: after that, I went on the air and people knew
Speaker 2: I was critical of Aaron, and I had several reach
Speaker 2: out to me. And because I went on the air
Speaker 2: and I said, I feel so bad for Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 2: I felt sick to my stomach. A I'd never root
Speaker 2: against the player, root for a player getting hurt. But
Speaker 2: I think Aaron has been a content machine for what
Speaker 2: I do, and I do appreciate that. And you know,
Speaker 2: he made some points on the vaccines that he may
Speaker 2: be right. You know, I tended to get in line
Speaker 2: with the government. Maybe I was wrong and gullible. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but the book is coming out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I could be wrong. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: I was open minded and I told him I have
Speaker 1: zero agenda with this book. I have no agenda whatsoever.
Speaker 1: I didn't have any real negative thoughts when you arrived
Speaker 1: in New York about you. And it's funny because I
Speaker 1: had more trouble convincing people that that. They assumed I
Speaker 1: was a liberal media guy with an agenda, and I
Speaker 1: think after over time they realized I wasn't and I
Speaker 1: was just trying to document a significant American life. But
Speaker 1: I had more trouble convincing people to talk did with
Speaker 1: my Belichick book, and that's that was a surprising part
Speaker 1: of it. How many people were afraid to talk about
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers. And I think I won that battle over time,
Speaker 1: but it was a battle to get there and so
Speaker 1: but but yeah, it was Listen. I have a good
Speaker 1: feeling about this Jets team, and I know you've been
Speaker 1: a critic. I think you've been fair on Rodgers. Your
Speaker 1: criticism to me is fair game. I would like to
Speaker 1: look at the all time list, and I think you
Speaker 1: have him a little lower than I have him. I
Speaker 1: have him fifth. And the way I try to do
Speaker 1: it is very subjective, of course, but try to make
Speaker 1: it more objective. And my formula is to take regular
Speaker 1: season MVPs plus Super Bowl MVPs. So it's a team sport.
Speaker 1: But if you are the best player in the league,
Speaker 1: and then how many times are you the best player
Speaker 1: in the biggest game in American sports, put the two
Speaker 1: together and come up with a number. And that's that's
Speaker 1: why I have Aaron Rodgers in my top five. I
Speaker 1: had him fifth, but I think obviously Mark Schleare said
Speaker 1: he belongs at the kids table when it comes to
Speaker 1: it at a gathering of all time quarterbacks, I think
Speaker 1: he's the last seed at the main table. But I
Speaker 1: think he belongs at the main table. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've always put him in the Merino class, where I
Speaker 2: think he and Marino throw the prettiest ball. I want more.
Speaker 2: I'm left hungry after their football careers, but it's indisputable
Speaker 2: that they're iconic, They're brilliant. I'm more critical, although I
Speaker 2: don't talk of him with Marino because I think Marino
Speaker 2: had the first or second bet coach for his entire
Speaker 2: career and Aaron didn't. Also, Dan Marino had an owner
Speaker 2: and that helps in free agency. Aaron Rodgers didn't. So
Speaker 2: I think at some point I will go down. I
Speaker 2: will probably have him closer to eight or nine Marino.
Speaker 2: In that same thing. Lway won the big games, Marino
Speaker 2: didn't win as many, but I think we both believe
Speaker 2: he's an all time talent. I've always had him ahead
Speaker 2: of Farv, but I do think I do think he
Speaker 2: needs to. Far have had a very, a really remarkable year,
Speaker 2: thirty three touchdown, seven picks that first year in Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Then he got injured that was. I mean that, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, that was one of the great years by
Speaker 2: an aging quarterback ever, maybe the greatest year by an
Speaker 2: aging quarterback. If Aaron sputters here this year after last
Speaker 2: year and kind of a weak year in Green Bay
Speaker 2: at the end, I don't think it's not you know,
Speaker 2: we forgot Jordan was so good. We forget about Washington.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like footage has disappeared. I do think
Speaker 2: Aaron needs to be we have to see some magic.
Speaker 2: It's a nice way. It's icing on a very good cake.
Speaker 2: And I you know, I kind of project their an
Speaker 2: eight nine win team. I don't see twelve thirteen. But
Speaker 2: I don't blame Aaron. I think I think the coaching
Speaker 2: and the coordinating leaves a little to be desired. I
Speaker 2: want to move to Bill Belichick because you've also done
Speaker 2: the Belichick book, and Aaron and Belichick have one thing
Speaker 2: in common.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Both at the end of their careers, made a decision
Speaker 2: in the last seven or eight years, maybe five or
Speaker 2: six years Belichick shared with urban Meyer. There's just certain
Speaker 2: guys I want to coach, and I'm not going to
Speaker 2: coach guys I don't want to coach well that's the
Speaker 2: opposite of sacrifice for the team that Bill wanted to
Speaker 2: be more comfortable. He relied on assistancy, knew even if
Speaker 2: they failed elsewhere, Aaron, there was a certain language that
Speaker 2: Bill was comfortable with, and he kept hiring his language
Speaker 2: back and was comfortable with only certain players. Winning isn't comfortable.
Speaker 2: It's uncomfortable Aaron has gotten. I think a disservice at
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator with Nat Hackett, Alan Lazard, Randall Cobb. It
Speaker 2: is and I want to instead of addressing that with Aaron,
Speaker 2: I want to address it with Bill. Do you think
Speaker 2: Belichick reporting recently by ESPN that Tom Pelasarrow I think
Speaker 2: said recently rich Eisens show he is interested in getting
Speaker 2: back into coaching next year. Do you think the market
Speaker 2: Is it a dynamic market or is it a two
Speaker 2: to three team market because age scares people. Brady had
Speaker 2: no market when he left New England. It was like
Speaker 2: the Chargers and the Box. Kirk Cousins didn't have much
Speaker 2: of a market for a very good career. Do you
Speaker 2: think Belichick last year no market will have much of
Speaker 2: a market.
Speaker 1: I actually think you're onto something there about it being
Speaker 1: a two or three team market. But I think the
Speaker 1: interest from those two or three teams could be intense.
Speaker 1: So I remember Brady said of the team he didn't name,
Speaker 1: you're keeping that guy instead of signing. Then there was speculation, well,
Speaker 1: who was that guy and what was that team? But
Speaker 1: I felt that way about Belichick in this last cycle.
Speaker 1: You're hiring that guy or keeping that guy, and not
Speaker 1: high Bill Belichick. But I do think just look at
Speaker 1: the NFC East. Could you imagine Jerry Jones hiring Belichick. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: Belichick working with Jones, I know they have a good relationship,
Speaker 1: but Parcells told me that it was a problem when
Speaker 1: he was there. He liked Jerry Jones, didn't have a
Speaker 1: major problem in them overall. But after games, Jerry Jones
Speaker 1: holds a press conference right outside the locker room. I've
Speaker 1: been in five, six or seven of them, and the
Speaker 1: coaches down the hall in the interview room, and those
Speaker 1: messages could conflict, and Parcells said that was tough to
Speaker 1: deal with. Imagine Belichick down the hall saying nothing and
Speaker 1: Jerry's saying everything outside the locker room. Now, maybe Bill
Speaker 1: can convince him not to do that anymore, but Jerry's
Speaker 1: been doing that for a long time, and he puts
Speaker 1: on a show. He'll talk about anything after a game.
Speaker 1: So that'll be interesting to watch that marriage if it happens.
Speaker 1: But the Giants, and if the Giants are I don't know,
Speaker 1: six and eleven again this year, Dable's in trouble and
Speaker 1: the Marath family loves the Parcels, Belichick, Tree, and Bill
Speaker 1: will be sitting there. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I've always felt this that deep in a place he
Speaker 1: won't admits exists, Bill's a giant. That's the one building
Speaker 1: he walked into. He saw the NFL films where he
Speaker 1: got emotional right, so to end his career if he could.
Speaker 1: The only reason he didn't get the job after Parcels
Speaker 1: stepped down. Now Bill had already left for Cleveland. He
Speaker 1: left because he knew that George Young the GM hated
Speaker 1: him and was never going to hire him as head coach.
Speaker 1: So George Young now in the Hall of Fame and
Speaker 1: rightfully so, one of the best football men I've ever met,
Speaker 1: But he hated Belichick. So to go back and have
Speaker 1: that be his final job and to try to win
Speaker 1: a championship in New York, Yeah, that would be something.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a possibility, and I don't think
Speaker 1: the Giants are gonna be very good this year, so
Speaker 1: the Eagles, of course also possibly in place. So if
Speaker 1: you're an He's head coach, beware because I think I
Speaker 1: don't think Bill wants to go west. I think he
Speaker 1: wants to stay near home, and I think the Northeast
Speaker 1: is that's who he is, and so I suspect there
Speaker 1: will be a lot of interest from two or three
Speaker 1: teams and he'll get a job. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other one I would throw out is Buffalo. Although
Speaker 2: Sean mcdermot's done a good job, there is a sense
Speaker 2: as the asc AFC just keeps getting better that Buffalo
Speaker 2: is kind of leaving, leaving some things on the on
Speaker 2: the floor. I don't think here's why I'll throw that
Speaker 2: one out. I think Bill holds grudges and to be
Speaker 2: able to crush Robert Kraft twice a year and go
Speaker 2: back to Foxborough, I think it's something Ian. It's a little,
Speaker 2: but it feels like something.
Speaker 1: It'll give you a better one than that the Jets
Speaker 1: if they missed the playoffs, everybody gets fired, right, But
Speaker 1: what if Aaron Rodgers makes fourteen starts, gets hurt in
Speaker 1: the middle of the season, and Tyrod Taylor takes the
Speaker 1: other three starts, plays a fairly high level of football,
Speaker 1: better than his final year in Green Bay, not as
Speaker 1: good as the MVP years, and Woody Johnson, who loves
Speaker 1: star quarterbacks and loves Aaron, decides, I'm firing everybody, but
Speaker 1: I want Aaron to come back. And I'll throw the
Speaker 1: kitchen sink at Belichick and say, you walked out on
Speaker 1: us on this before I became owner, after twenty four
Speaker 1: hours as head coach, and you dominated us for the
Speaker 1: better part of two decades. Why not finish your career
Speaker 1: here with a quarterback who's a bat as close to
Speaker 1: an aging Tom Brady as you can find, and a
Speaker 1: guy you can work with. I mean, I think that's
Speaker 1: a long shot, but I wouldn't completely rule that out.
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Speaker 2: paid advertisement. When you attack these books, you make really
Speaker 2: good choices, and there's a lot of people do this.
Speaker 2: The Belichick book, the Derek Jeter book, the Aaron Rodgers book.
Speaker 2: While you're a columnist, while you're doing other work, a
Speaker 2: great dad, husband, you're you're a busy guy. Right when
Speaker 2: you finished the Aaron book, what's the feeling of two
Speaker 2: to three years of a mile deep? What's the feeling?
Speaker 2: Are you just how do you.
Speaker 1: Think I sort of feel that these books take a
Speaker 1: few years off the end of your life. I hope that,
Speaker 1: but it does feel that way. And but then when
Speaker 1: you have like that first copy in your hands, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is a pretty glorious feeling, I have to admit.
Speaker 1: And it is the hardest thing I've ever attempted to
Speaker 1: do in this business, and one of the maybe the
Speaker 1: second hardest, was filling in for you. Seriously. I mean this.
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this because I'm on with you,
Speaker 1: but I've told my wife this, and she's a fan
Speaker 1: of yours and other people. So I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: ten times eleven times I did your show when you
Speaker 1: were at ESPN when you're on vacation, and to sit
Speaker 1: there on national radio and national TV and basically do
Speaker 1: a three hour show by yourself where you're debating yourself
Speaker 1: and trying to create conversation with yourself as you did
Speaker 1: so expertly, that might be the second hardest thing for
Speaker 1: a time, because I don't have your personality or your
Speaker 1: skill for it. And so that was a fight, and
Speaker 1: it was it was just to try to reach a
Speaker 1: respectable level. And I felt like I owed that to
Speaker 1: you because they were putting me in your chair, and
Speaker 1: I mean that from the bottom of my heart. That
Speaker 1: is that might be the second hardest thing I've ever
Speaker 1: attempted in this business. And that's a credit to you,
Speaker 1: because you're the best at it.
Speaker 2: Well. I always appreciate that. I want to talk about
Speaker 2: I'm not a big believer. I think choices is another
Speaker 2: word for fate. I'm pretty agnostic, though most of my
Speaker 2: friends are very religious. I fear more toward the spirituality.
Speaker 2: I think I don't believe in too many coincidences. Right now,
Speaker 2: New York as the as the Yankee sort of spiral.
Speaker 2: New York has had a bad mostly decade in sports,
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about this the other day. I
Speaker 2: thought Jalen Brunson taking less one hundred and fifteen million
Speaker 2: dollars less for the next was one of the savvyest moves.
Speaker 2: And I know he'll get pushed back because the term
Speaker 2: get the bag now is just synonymous with like NBA stars.
Speaker 2: Is Brunson the most loved athlete in the last fifteen
Speaker 2: years in New York since Ewing or since Jeter?
Speaker 1: I think Eli's in there. I think Eli winning the
Speaker 1: two Super Bowls, but he's close and Brunton, if he
Speaker 1: just gets one, it's going to explode. But what's amazing
Speaker 1: is and he'll he'll make up that money maybe in
Speaker 1: the next contract. And I think he's eligible in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty eight when he can get over three hundred millions.
Speaker 1: So but he's smart. We go how smart this guy is.
Speaker 1: He looks around and says, well, nobody in New York's
Speaker 1: won a championship in forever, and the Knicks happened once.
Speaker 1: It's nineteen seventy three. So somebody's going to be the
Speaker 1: guy who does it. And the guy who does it,
Speaker 1: if it's me, that's going to be worth a lot
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and thirteen million dollars in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: He's going to be lionized forever. And he was smart
Speaker 1: enough to figure it out. And so if you look
Speaker 1: at New York Sports right now, and we've talked about this,
Speaker 1: I think on other shows where New York sort of
Speaker 1: lost its advantage over other markets because you can be
Speaker 1: a global superstar in Oklahoma City wherever. The world is
Speaker 1: so small now, so New York's lost that edge. But
Speaker 1: the one edge New York has is if you look
Speaker 1: at the Mets have one since eighty six. The Jets
Speaker 1: haven't won since January sixty nine. The Knicks have won
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy three, The Mets haven one since eighty six,
Speaker 1: the Yankees to them since two thousand and nine. That's
Speaker 1: a drought. So if you come to New York and
Speaker 1: end the drought, you are lionized forever. And it's the
Speaker 1: payoff there is worth far more than one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirteen million dollars, particularly when Brunton will get that back
Speaker 1: in the next contract. He was smart enough to figure out,
Speaker 1: now's the time I have to help the Knicks forminate
Speaker 1: a championship roster because I'm going to lead that roster
Speaker 1: and if we win it all that is going to
Speaker 1: be something that you can't buy. And doing that in
Speaker 1: New York after more than fifty years for the Knicks,
Speaker 1: what is that going to mean to him? Mark Messier
Speaker 1: won five Cups in Edmonton. He ended a fifty four
Speaker 1: year drought in New York and that's the only cup
Speaker 1: anyone ever talks about. Is winning number six is the
Speaker 1: one he one and the drought for the Rangers, and
Speaker 1: he'll tell you that that they talk more about that
Speaker 1: than the other five combined, and he can't buy a
Speaker 1: meal in New York, of course, for the rest of
Speaker 1: his life. So yeah, Brunson is smart enough, he's figured
Speaker 1: it out. I'm making killer money, multi generational money anyway,
Speaker 1: so let me try to do what I can to
Speaker 1: be the guy who ends the drought. So then my
Speaker 1: legacy goes to a stratosphere I can't even imagine. So
Speaker 1: I think he's made the right play.
Speaker 2: Here for the audience listening that doesn't know the hierarchy
Speaker 2: of the Knicks. They may know James Dolan, who I
Speaker 2: think was side pracked with the Sphere for two years,
Speaker 2: which allowed the front office to control basketball as Dolan
Speaker 2: stepped away. He has a musical background and it was
Speaker 2: actually an advantage. Now the Sphere's done, the Sphear's done,
Speaker 2: he's back to talking about how much he loves Julius Randall,
Speaker 2: which is problematic because I don't think he fits with
Speaker 2: what they Once Hartenstein left, they lost size at true center.
Speaker 2: Randall small. I don't think he fits this small lineup,
Speaker 2: which often goes four guards. It'll be now three guards.
Speaker 2: McHale bridges. So I don't think Randall fits. I think
Speaker 2: he's productive. I don't think he's a good fit. And
Speaker 2: here comes James Dolan, done with his Vegas project, to
Speaker 2: talk basketball and how much he loves Julius Randall. But
Speaker 2: over the last two years, the Knicks have arguably gone
Speaker 2: from the most disfunctional organization ownership group to a highly
Speaker 2: functional maybe not Miami or Golden State, but a highly
Speaker 2: functional operation. Who do we give credit to? In the
Speaker 2: suite upstairs?
Speaker 1: Leon Rose is very simple and listen. He hasn't talked
Speaker 1: to the media in I don't know more than two years.
Speaker 1: It's New York City. I don't know how Adam Silver
Speaker 1: and New Yorker lets him get away with that. I
Speaker 1: wrote a column that was very critical of him a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. The Knicks went crazy for this column.
Speaker 1: And because he hasn't talked to the beat writers and
Speaker 1: the media at large in New York City, it has
Speaker 1: to be more than two years now, not one word.
Speaker 1: So now Knicks fans don't care because the guy knows
Speaker 1: what he's doing. And I'll admit that, I'm not afraid
Speaker 1: to say he's done a great job. Early on, he struggled.
Speaker 1: He made some moves that Tibbs didn't like he got
Speaker 1: a couple guys in that like Cam Reddish that Tibbs
Speaker 1: didn't want and fourty A and Kemba Walker, guys that
Speaker 1: Tibbs didn't want. And but man, it's one home run
Speaker 1: now after another, and I have to give a man
Speaker 1: credit for doing it, and so I will. And now
Speaker 1: his roster is one that Could they go to the
Speaker 1: NBA finals next year after getting Bridges, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: they can because it's so hard to repeat now in
Speaker 1: the NBA. And look look at Denver this year. They
Speaker 1: couldn't get through even to the finals. And after they
Speaker 1: won last year, we thought they might win three of
Speaker 1: the next four. And I guess they still might. Boston,
Speaker 1: it's going to be tough to do it again. They're
Speaker 1: coming back with the same team. Are they better than
Speaker 1: the next air roster? Yes, but it's just so hard
Speaker 1: to get back that I think there's an opportunity there
Speaker 1: for the next to get through and challenge somebody in
Speaker 1: the West. I think Bridges was the right move. You're
Speaker 1: right about Randall, but you know what, he's a twenty
Speaker 1: four and ten guy and I think he has value
Speaker 1: around the league. If they don't move him, what they
Speaker 1: could use is a center who could shoot from the outside,
Speaker 1: just to open up lanes for Brunson and hart and
Speaker 1: Dee Vincenzo and Bridges, and just to space the defense
Speaker 1: out some they don't they didn't have last year with
Speaker 1: Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson a center who could do that.
Speaker 1: So if they can move Randall into packs now they
Speaker 1: had to send so many assets out to get Bridges.
Speaker 1: But if for a I don't know, does Minnesota decide
Speaker 1: that Karl Anthony Towns and Edwards and Gobertt's that doesn't
Speaker 1: quite fit. We need to add a different piece to
Speaker 1: win it all. Maybe I know that Cat. I know
Speaker 1: that Timms is willing to coach Cat again even though
Speaker 1: they they had problems in Minnesota. I know that for
Speaker 1: a fact. And I also know as a New Jersey kid,
Speaker 1: he does have Towns does have some interest in playing
Speaker 1: for the Knicks at some point. So, but it would
Speaker 1: be something like that maybe I could see happening. But
Speaker 1: I do think Randall has value around the league.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when he was in Los Angeles, you know,
Speaker 2: he's one of those players where the league, the culture
Speaker 2: and the style of the league changed and Dwight Howard
Speaker 2: fell off a Cliff Randal didn't. But he's not aligned
Speaker 2: with current basketball. He's not going to shoot from the perimeter.
Speaker 2: He's kind of an old school bully ball, physical player,
Speaker 2: relentlessly hard player, intense. It doesn't look it's not aesthetically pretty,
Speaker 2: it's not the current game. But he's productive and there
Speaker 2: is you know, sometimes he has struggled in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: but there is value. I in dropping twenty four and
Speaker 2: eight a night in the regular season, which is such
Speaker 2: a treadmill. Which is I mean, it's a long hike
Speaker 2: and a dark, windy road, and I think he provides
Speaker 2: for a lot of teams stability and production. But I
Speaker 2: got to tell you, as somebody who started watching the
Speaker 2: NBA in the early seventies, I find the Knicks have
Speaker 2: the and this is hard for a big market team.
Speaker 2: I find them incredibly likable. The Villanova thing is God,
Speaker 2: they're likable. I can't think of the last I mean,
Speaker 2: I didn't necessarily love the Giants. The Yankees were fun,
Speaker 2: but again, out spending everybody, this Knicks team feels like
Speaker 2: one of the more huggable in New York history.
Speaker 1: No question, Colin and you look at Brunson, is the
Speaker 1: biggest reason why because he's the guy again, as when
Speaker 1: he arrived, I wasn't sure and many people weren't sure
Speaker 1: if he was good enough to be the second best
Speaker 1: player in the championship team. I think he's proven he
Speaker 1: could be the best player on the YESEA yeah, right,
Speaker 1: with the right pieces around him. But now taking less
Speaker 1: money sort of a lah Tom Brady and trying to
Speaker 1: help the roster and trying the championship and just saying
Speaker 1: all the right things. I mean, he would fit in
Speaker 1: with the Red Holtzman Nicks in nineteen seventy and seventy three,
Speaker 1: and he fits in today perfectly. And he was a
Speaker 1: coach's son, a point guard son, and you could just
Speaker 1: see he's got so much savvy on the floor. His
Speaker 1: footwork is unbelievable. I think he's got the best footwork
Speaker 1: for a guard I've ever seen, particularly in the paint.
Speaker 1: And he's not athletic. You look at his body, he
Speaker 1: doesn't look like an NBA player, so it doesn't look
Speaker 1: like an NBA superstar, and yet he is. And it's
Speaker 1: like every night. I remember his first year in New York.
Speaker 1: Tim Bontems and ESPN used to make fun of me
Speaker 1: because I was working at the New York Post as
Speaker 1: a columnist, and every time I went to a Knicks game,
Speaker 1: I wrote a column about Jalen Brunson. And are you
Speaker 1: ever going to write about somebody else? And I said, no, Tim,
Speaker 1: because I've been around a lot longer than you, and
Speaker 1: I see what's happening here. In year one, you could
Speaker 1: see it. It was a perfect marriage between market and athlete,
Speaker 1: and it was only going to get better. And that's
Speaker 1: exactly what's happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ian O'Connor upcoming book, Out of the Darkness, The
Speaker 2: Mystery of Aaron Rodgers, comes out next month. How long
Speaker 2: officially did it take to write that book beginning.
Speaker 1: To end the actual writing process? Probably five months. Of course,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of reporting that goes into it, and
Speaker 1: I like for these books, particularly unauthorized books, where the
Speaker 1: subject is giving you very little, if anything at all,
Speaker 1: You're interviewing hundreds of people. So listen, it wasn't as
Speaker 1: long as Belichick. Aaron Rodgers hasn't been on the planet
Speaker 1: as long as Belichick. Belichick was the I think I
Speaker 1: want to say that was a full three years. This
Speaker 1: was more like a year and a half and I
Speaker 1: would say the average for me is probably two years.
Speaker 1: I did want this book to come out when Aaron
Speaker 1: was still playing, and so a lot of people thought
Speaker 1: I was dead in the water when he got hurt
Speaker 1: last year. Well, the book's coming out this year. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say the injury it was an awful
Speaker 1: thing to witness, but in some ways I think it
Speaker 1: might have helped the book. Most people assumed it killed
Speaker 1: it because last year is now this year, and they
Speaker 1: have to get in the playoffs. He has to have
Speaker 1: a big year or this whole thing is getting blown up.
Speaker 1: So I actually think that might add some intrigue to
Speaker 1: the story that I've told here as the season unfolds.
Speaker 2: Also, they got a little bit of a break from
Speaker 2: the schedule maker, a lot of night games, a lot
Speaker 2: of standalone games. They opened with Stan Francisco, So, as
Speaker 2: you know with book sales, the more he's in the news,
Speaker 2: the more controversy, the more people are fascinated. They're going
Speaker 2: to be on TV all of September and early October,
Speaker 2: and if they win, which I suppose they'll do outside
Speaker 2: of the Niners opener, that'll help. I mean, the best
Speaker 2: thing for your book is a six game Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 2: winning streak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And the worst thing Colin is, of course,
Speaker 1: and God forbid he gets hurt on opening night again.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, when I saw that schedule, I said
Speaker 1: to myself to the NFL, are you trying to get
Speaker 1: him hurt on opening night again against San Francisco on
Speaker 1: the road?
Speaker 2: Did it happen with a new offensive line?
Speaker 1: Exactly so? And listen, it's interesting because they didn't draft
Speaker 1: him number one in two thousand and five, and they
Speaker 1: should have. And that's that was his childhood team. He
Speaker 1: loved Joe Montana and Steve Young, and he wanted to
Speaker 1: be the quarterback of the San Francisco forty nine ers.
Speaker 1: He can't beat them in the playoffs, right, He's lost
Speaker 1: to Kaepernick and Garoppolo in the playoffs, and he struggled
Speaker 1: against them in the postseason. He's had some success against
Speaker 1: San Francisco in the regular season. So, but that is
Speaker 1: a tough opening night for him, brutal a year after
Speaker 1: he got hurt on opening night after four snaps or so.
Speaker 1: I didn't love that first game. But if you look
Speaker 1: at their schedule, could you see an avenue for them
Speaker 1: to go eleven and six, ten and seven, I would
Speaker 1: say that, yes, that's possible. I have a good feeling
Speaker 1: about it. Usually when I write books about people, they
Speaker 1: have very successful seasons when the book is out. So
Speaker 1: for the sake of Jets fans who are very fatalistic
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, and have been waiting, right, I always
Speaker 1: say that the Jets have not appeared in a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl since Neil Armstrong stepped on the move, so it's time.
Speaker 1: It's time for magic to happen. I think it would
Speaker 1: be a great story. I'm selfish in terms of wanting
Speaker 1: that for my book, but that aside, I do want
Speaker 1: to see that. I've never covered a Jets Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: I'd love to be able to do that, and I'd
Speaker 1: love to see Jets fans get that payoff.
Speaker 2: Ian O'Connor, my friend, it's always great to see you.
Speaker 2: Know how much I respect you and enjoy this stuff.
Speaker 2: And you don't have much of a stummer left, but
Speaker 2: what you do before you start digging into camps a
Speaker 2: couple of the Giants and the Jets. I wish it well, and.
Speaker 1: Really I met what I said before, and you know
Speaker 1: what I feel about you and your work, So thank
Speaker 1: you very much.
Speaker 2: Calm. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
Speaker 2: take a moment, rate and review