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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: Okay, my friend and somebody I admire greatly, Ian O'Connor

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Speaker 2: has a new book out on Aaron Rodgers. And before

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Speaker 2: we get to that, I want you to grab your

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Speaker 2: smartphone and I want you to download the game Time App.

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Speaker 2: It will take you ninety seconds. It's so valuable. Game

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Speaker 2: Time is an authorized ticket marketplace for Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 2: So you want to go to a Dodger game, a

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Speaker 2: Braves game, an Astros game, a Cubs game. The great

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Speaker 2: thing about the game Time app is that it makes

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Speaker 2: it really easy. You can preview the seats before you

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Speaker 2: buy them. That's a bonus. You're going to know where

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Speaker 2: you're sitting. It takes the guesswork out of buying a

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Speaker 2: Major League Baseball ticket with game Time. The prices go

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Speaker 2: down on the game Time app. The prices go down

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Speaker 2: for the tickets the closer you get to the first pitch. Right,

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Speaker 2: so if you you know it's one of those things,

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Speaker 2: you can drive to the game and when you get close,

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Speaker 2: because it's probably not a sellout, you can buy it

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Speaker 2: right before you go inside the stadium. That's pretty cool,

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Speaker 2: is it not? Yeah? Download the game Time app. Create

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Speaker 2: an account, use my name COLINSLN twenty bucks off your

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Speaker 2: first purchase. So that's the redeem code COLN. So basically,

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Speaker 2: you take the guesswork out of buying Major League Baseball tickets.

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Speaker 2: Closer you get to the game, the tickets get less expensive.

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Speaker 2: You can preview where you're sitting, an authorized marketplace for

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Speaker 2: Major League Baseball, down the game time app today, last

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Speaker 2: minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Well, I only get the

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Speaker 2: opportunity a couple times a year because he's the hardest

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Speaker 2: working man in print journalism in America. You know, Connor,

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Speaker 2: my friend, He's got a book. I cannot wait to

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Speaker 2: read it. I've already had several shots at several chapters

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Speaker 2: and it's so in depth. It's called Out of the Darkness,

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Speaker 2: The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers. It comes out next month.

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Speaker 2: You know what, As she've written this book, it helped

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Speaker 2: me to laugh. But Aaron's like a story a week.

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Speaker 2: Guy at I keep thinking, do you have to keep

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Speaker 2: doing updates for the book?

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Speaker 1: I did, actually, Colin, and thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: the kind words I handed in the book in January.

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Speaker 1: And at that point, after asking to get him for

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Speaker 1: months and getting no response or being told he's thinking

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Speaker 1: about it, assuming at that point he's not going to

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Speaker 1: talk to me. And generally my biographies they've been unauthorized

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Speaker 1: with limited or no cooperation from the main subject. So

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Speaker 1: and then in February I got a message from the Jets, well,

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Speaker 1: he's actually now willing to talk to you. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be a ten hour sit down where

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Speaker 1: he told me his life story, but it was more

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Speaker 1: a fact checking hour or two. So I got two

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Speaker 1: hours with him and great, So he answered some questions,

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Speaker 1: he made the book better, and then after that you

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Speaker 1: had the RFK Junior story drop that, you had the

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Speaker 1: Sandy Hook conspiracy story drop, and then some podcasts he

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Speaker 1: did after my access to him, where more conspiracies were

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Speaker 1: talked about, and so listen Aaron Rodgers. He was a

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Speaker 1: very difficult subject to get your arms around. I thought

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Speaker 1: Belichick was tough, but compared to Rogers, I think Belichick

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Speaker 1: was a walk in the park because he was a

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Speaker 1: mystery that I felt like there was a sameness to

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Speaker 1: it at the same time, and he was right in

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Speaker 1: front of me, and I always felt that Rogers was

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Speaker 1: a moving target, and so it was a challenge and

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Speaker 1: hopefully I conquered it. I guess the readers will will

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Speaker 1: let me know if I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, complex people are interesting, and

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Speaker 2: I've said Aaron's really good content for me. There are

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Speaker 2: parts of Aaron that I've said on the show before.

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Speaker 2: My theory on Aaron. One of them is he just

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Speaker 2: pushes back on authority. His family was very religious. He

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Speaker 2: pushed back on it. He pushed back on the Packers,

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Speaker 2: He's pushed back on the media. He's pushed back on

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Speaker 2: the government vaccines. Whether that's a good quality or not,

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Speaker 2: it can be unsettling to people covering him. But my

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Speaker 2: belief is he's a non conformist. Many of the people

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Speaker 2: in our lives, musicians and artists we have celebrated, are

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Speaker 2: non conformists. Is there a bit of artistry to his personality.

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Speaker 2: That's probably the wrong word, but in my life we

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Speaker 2: have often celebrated there's a construct of football that we

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Speaker 2: want organizational, dependable, reliable personalities. And is it arguable or

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Speaker 2: debatable he's more of an artist in a structured sport.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. And I'm used to Eli Manning

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Speaker 1: that model that Eli Manning Derek Jeter in New York

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Speaker 1: and Aaron is the complete opposite of that. And so,

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Speaker 1: but there is an art to creating a news cycle

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Speaker 1: rolling out of bed, and that's what he can do.

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Speaker 1: He can do that better than anyone else. Maybe in

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Speaker 1: all sports. He can create a news cycle like that. So,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen that over the years. And I think

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Speaker 1: he loves being interesting. I think he loves being talked about.

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Speaker 1: He loves being analyzed. I don't think he loves the

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Speaker 1: way the news media has treated him in recent years.

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Speaker 1: I think his viewpoints politically generally are in contrast with

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Speaker 1: what he believes is the liberal media, largely liberal media,

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Speaker 1: and he's right for the most part. And you look

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Speaker 1: at him, though, what's interesting is his life, his public life.

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Speaker 1: Colin changed with COVID because before COVID and the I've

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Speaker 1: Been Immunized press conference in August of twenty one, he

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Speaker 1: was not considered a villain. He was a guy who

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Speaker 1: is very socially aware. Back to Colin Kaepernick and the

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Speaker 1: right to kneel in protest, he actually rebuked the fan

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Speaker 1: who screamed out or shouted out an anti Muslim slur

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the national anthem. I think it

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Speaker 1: was right after the Paris terrorist attacks and got a

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Speaker 1: letter of congratulation, congratulations or thanks or appreciation from President Obama.

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Speaker 1: Mina Kimes had that, and so he was sort of

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Speaker 1: known as as an athlete who was socially aware and

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Speaker 1: engaged in the issues and really on the right side

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Speaker 1: of the issues. And all of a sudden, COVID and

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Speaker 1: his stance against vaccines changed everything for him in terms

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Speaker 1: of his public image.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, he wasn't the only person

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Speaker 2: to do that. I don't view him as a conservative.

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Speaker 2: I view him as more of a contrarian, a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a Joe Rogan. Rogan's never had Trump on

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Speaker 2: his podcast. He says he doesn't want him. And I

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Speaker 2: think Aaron has said, you know about like Trump, who's

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Speaker 2: the ultimate like alpha Republican, which is like he didn't

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Speaker 2: drain the swamp. It's just a different from swamp. So

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes we view Aaron through a political prism

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Speaker 2: and I just see him as a nonconformist. And I

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Speaker 2: think it probably that stuff. At some point. You can

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Speaker 2: trace it back to his childhood, and let's pivot to that.

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Speaker 2: You wrote the book. What do we know about his childhood?

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Speaker 1: He was raised in a very conservative Christian evangelical home.

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Speaker 1: And I think I talked to a family member, and

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Speaker 1: you know, of course, for the better part of ten years,

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Speaker 1: he has not had any contact with his immediate family,

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Speaker 1: his two brothers, right, so I think he ultimately And

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Speaker 1: one family member told me that this person felt that

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Speaker 1: when he went to Berkeley, when he went to cal

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, he leaves this cocoon, this

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Speaker 1: small town in northern California, overwhelmingly white, Chico, California, and

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Speaker 1: is at cal Berkeley, this global institution, pot of ideas

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Speaker 1: and races and nationalities, and just got exposed to a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things and beliefs, and that that really

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Speaker 1: inspired a rebellion against those Christian beliefs that he was

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Speaker 1: raised with, and that that rebellion inspired other rebellions against

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Speaker 1: other things. And I had a good friend of his

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Speaker 1: when he was younger say to me, we all we

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Speaker 1: believed in magic. Aaron and I did, and together we

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Speaker 1: talked about that. And when you believe in magic, you

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Speaker 1: believe in the possibility of almost everything. And this person

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Speaker 1: felt that that opened the door to conspiracy theories too.

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Speaker 1: And listen, he he studied the JFK assassination as a

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Speaker 1: sophomore in high school. He was fascinated by it, came

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Speaker 1: to believe that was a conspiracy that involved a government agency,

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Speaker 1: and that inspired other conspiracy theories as well. So I

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Speaker 1: think right now he actually told me that religion is

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Speaker 1: really a small part of the estrangement that But I

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Speaker 1: do think that if you go back to his childhood,

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Speaker 1: certainly he now does not consider him self religious. He

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Speaker 1: considers himself spiritual. But I think you see the seeds

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Speaker 1: of rebellion planet in his own rebellion against those beliefs

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Speaker 1: that he now does not hold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. There, I'm gonna throw this out and you can

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Speaker 2: latch onto this, and if there's any story in the

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Speaker 2: book that corroborates or refutes this, go ahead. But I've

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Speaker 2: said one of the statistics with Aaron that doesn't make

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Speaker 2: a lot of sense on the surface is his lack

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Speaker 2: of come from behind wins. In the NFL twenty one

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Speaker 2: playoff games he has won that would be low for

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Speaker 2: a bad quarterback. He's an all time great and I've

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Speaker 2: often used, you know, maybe it's tried a little glib.

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Speaker 2: He's more of a Baylor than a baller. Is that

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Speaker 2: when he plays poorly early, he quits that he's not

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Speaker 2: a fox hole guy, He's just brilliantly gifted. Jeter was

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Speaker 2: more of a leader, a Rod was more talented. Brady's

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Speaker 2: more of a leader, Aaron's just more talent. And that

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Speaker 2: I look at him, that there's a lack of fundamental,

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Speaker 2: lack of trust in a process, and when he struggles

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Speaker 2: early in games, his body language shifts. When he trails

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Speaker 2: late in games, there's a lack of trust for the

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Speaker 2: play calling. And that's part of his personality. It's the

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Speaker 2: only thing I can figure out and decipher why a

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Speaker 2: gifted quarterback in twenty one playoff games has only one

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Speaker 2: come from behind win. Does any of this line up

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Speaker 2: with some of his unique personality quirks or his fundamental

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Speaker 2: base personality.

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Speaker 1: Well, when he was younger, he was a fearless postseason player.

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Speaker 1: And I think what he won four of his first

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Speaker 1: five postseason games, and the throw he made to beat

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl, the third down throw over

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Speaker 1: the middle to Jennings, is one of the great throws

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Speaker 1: in Super Bowl history. On third down. If that passes incomplete,

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Speaker 1: I think the Steelers win that Super Bowl. And so

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Speaker 1: he makes that play and other plays in that game

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Speaker 1: and in that postseason run. If you go back Colin

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Speaker 1: as I did, of course, and looked at particularly the

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Speaker 1: game against Atlanta and the playoffs that year that he

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Speaker 1: won it, you cannot play the position at a higher

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Speaker 1: level than that. Right, He had some Alan Iverson type

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Speaker 1: ankle breaking moves to escape guys in the pocket that

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Speaker 1: were just unbelievable, and the throws he made and just

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Speaker 1: the way he played in that game was it was art.

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Speaker 1: It was just hard to believe somebody could play at

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Speaker 1: that level. And after watching that game and seeing him

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Speaker 1: win the Super Bowl, it is really hard still after

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Speaker 1: studying his career in his life, to come to grips

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Speaker 1: with the fact that the Packers could not figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to win a second rate with this guy.

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Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable. One thing I'll point out, so this

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Speaker 1: doesn't really relate to his upbringing or character traits, but

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Speaker 1: he listen, if they recover an onside kick, He's in

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Speaker 1: the second Super Bowl. They don't recover an onside kick,

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Speaker 1: and didn't do six other things in the final minutes

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Speaker 1: of that game. And by the way, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: that comeback drive to tie and send it into overtime

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Speaker 1: against Seattle is totally forgotten. Was an amazing drive by

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Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers to get that game into overtime after the

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Speaker 1: team and really the coaching staff around him fell apart.

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Speaker 1: So that doesn't count because they lost, but just in

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Speaker 1: that building, the loudest building in the NFL, after the

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Speaker 1: rest of the team really folded around him to drive

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Speaker 1: that team down the field to force overtime and lose

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Speaker 1: it basically on a coin toss. So that's a tough one.

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Speaker 1: Because they get to the Super Bowl that year. They

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Speaker 1: had beaten New England in the regular season, so they

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Speaker 1: would have a lot of confidence against Brady in the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl that year. But he did not have Belichick. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy was not a bad coach, but he's not

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Speaker 1: even close to Belichick. Tom Brady also had the best

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Speaker 1: offensive coordinator of his generation, and Brady had this great

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Speaker 1: system that Belichick created, and Aaron Rodgers had a slightly

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Speaker 1: better than average head coach and didn't have that system

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Speaker 1: or offensive coordinator a lot of times, didn't have a

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Speaker 1: great defense. And so I think that's that. Hey, it's there,

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Speaker 1: and it's part of his legacy. The lack of comeback

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Speaker 1: victory certainly is right there on his record, but he

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Speaker 1: very easily, in a different situation would have the multiple

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Speaker 1: rings that he doesn't have right now that everybody holds

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Speaker 1: against him, and he has a part in that too.

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Speaker 1: There were postseason victories that he left on the field

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Speaker 1: that he could have made a play to overcome somebody else,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't do that, and that is part of

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Speaker 1: his record as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's been fairly portrayed as a quarterback

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Speaker 2: as Marino level gifted, we're wanting more postseason success, a

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Speaker 2: little prickly, personally indifferent, but an all time great, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's incredibly fair. I always preferred him over

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Speaker 2: far Of. I thought he could play instructure and out

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Speaker 2: of it, whereas I thought Brett was arder to coach

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Speaker 2: and a little bit more of an old style gunslinger,

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Speaker 2: where Aaron could do a little bit of that but

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Speaker 2: also played in structure very very well. I don't think

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Speaker 2: he's been unfairly criticized. I do think, like a Joe Rogan,

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Speaker 2: when you're a news maker, the media are filled full

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Speaker 2: of human beings, they tend to take sides. There does

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Speaker 2: feel like a little bit of a negative pivot off Aaron.

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Speaker 2: Do you think he will often say it doesn't affect him.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it's had a corrosive effect on his

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Speaker 2: personality in some of his acts.

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Speaker 1: I think so. I think that's a fair way to

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Speaker 1: look at it, Colin and Listen, he's brought a lot

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Speaker 1: of this on himself, and I think he's for a

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Speaker 1: guy as smart as he is, a guy who had

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Speaker 1: thirteen ten on his SATs and is very thoughtful and

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Speaker 1: engaging and can talk about so many different things. He's

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Speaker 1: intellectually curious, and I've always thought he's one of the best,

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Speaker 1: if not the best interviews in the league. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: always he's a great talker, but he has said some

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Speaker 1: things that he's had to take back, and I think like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, the Jimmy Kimmel thing on McAfee. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: he did not go on the program that day planning

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Speaker 1: to talk about Epstein and Jimmy Kimmel and the Epstein list,

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Speaker 1: but A J Hawk, one of his good friends, blurted

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Speaker 1: it out a question. And obviously that show is very

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Speaker 1: free flowing and McFee does a great job with it.

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Speaker 1: But it's the way he responded to aj Hawk off

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Speaker 1: the cuff on the fly that got him in trouble,

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Speaker 1: and I think he was very careless with his words.

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Speaker 1: I actually believe he was not trying to say that

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Speaker 1: he thought Kimmel was on the list. I think he's

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Speaker 1: always been waiting for an opportunity to get back at

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Speaker 1: Kimmell form making fun of him previously on his show

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Speaker 1: regarding Aaron's belief or he suggested that all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: we're getting all this information out of the government about

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Speaker 1: UFOs to divert attention away from the Epstein list, and

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Speaker 1: kim Ol mocked him for that, so he was trying

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Speaker 1: to get back at him. But the way he said it,

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Speaker 1: if you didn't know the context in the background, you

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Speaker 1: would believe that Aaron Rodgers was suggesting that Jimmy Kimmel

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Speaker 1: was going to be on that list, and of course

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Speaker 1: he wasn't, so he put himself in that position. He

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Speaker 1: got himself in trouble, and it was just once you

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Speaker 1: try to explain it days later, as he tried to do,

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Speaker 1: you've lost. You know that, once you have to expel

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Speaker 1: something like that, you've already lost. And so there are

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Speaker 1: cases like that in his career. That are dumbfounding, because

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Speaker 1: he is a very intelligent guy, and so I'd say

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Speaker 1: that he has brought a fair amount of that on himself.

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Speaker 2: The book is called Out of the Darkness. The Mystery

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Speaker 2: of Aaron Rodgers comes out next month. What part of

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Speaker 2: the book was the most interesting for you. There's there's

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Speaker 2: his grandfather, there's his parents, there's his childhood, there's Berkeley,

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Speaker 2: there's Green Bay, there's sitting behind FARV, there's taking over

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Speaker 2: for FARV. There's the prime years, there's the departure, the

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Speaker 2: exit from Green Bay. Was there a part of the

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Speaker 2: book that you you really there were surprises, There were

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Speaker 2: left turns that you really found you were as you

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Speaker 2: were compiling the information writing it. It was easy to write.

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Speaker 2: You really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: At the chapter one community college is one year and

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Speaker 1: at JUCO.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's great, it's great.

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Speaker 1: I love that his coach, Craig Rigsby, is the Charles

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Speaker 1: Barkley of JUCO coaches. He was a great chapter, great character,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. And so. But I would say the story

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Speaker 1: that I really actually enjoyed researching and reporting on the

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Speaker 1: most was about his grandfather, because you know, I had

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Speaker 1: heard him passing it. Occasionally. You'd see it briefly mentioned

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Speaker 1: in a story that his grandfather served in World War Two,

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Speaker 1: and that was pretty much the extent of it. You

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Speaker 1: might see an occasional reference to the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was a POW. And so in Finding there's a guy

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Speaker 1: in Minneapolis named Dan Matthews who's a military records expert.

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Speaker 1: And this guy was gold and he found a lot

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Speaker 1: of this for me. I found some of it as well,

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Speaker 1: but documenting every mission that Edward Rogers flew as a

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Speaker 1: B twenty Wow combat pilot, and including one on Saint

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Speaker 1: Patrick's Day in nineteen forty four where his plane was

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Speaker 1: hit multiple times. His engine on the left side, one

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Speaker 1: of the four engines is on fire. He's flying over

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Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany, and the rest of his squadron they

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Speaker 1: weren't abandoning him, but it was protocols part of their mission.

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Speaker 1: They had to peel off and go to the next

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Speaker 1: stage of the mission. And he was all alone, on

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Speaker 1: fire over Germany in a B twenty four that he

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Speaker 1: was flying with ten men aboard, and he had to

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Speaker 1: make decisions, and he said, I felt like the loneliest

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Speaker 1: man in the world flying off Nazi Germany. And so

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Speaker 1: the story is he somehow flew that plane back to

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Speaker 1: the American base in Italy. They got down safely, so

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Speaker 1: effectively he saved eleven lives, including his own. And I

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Speaker 1: wanted to open the book with that chapter because there's

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Speaker 1: so much negativity about his family that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: actually write a positive story about his family. And his

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Speaker 1: grandfather was an amazing combat pilot who flew forty four missions,

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Speaker 1: forty three of them successful against Hitler's war machine shot

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Speaker 1: down on the forty fourth, was beaten and mistreated as

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Speaker 1: a pow, told war crimes investigators of his mistreatment, and

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Speaker 1: we have all of that in the book, and I

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Speaker 1: think that actually was my favorite chapter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's by the way, it is such an impressive

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Speaker 2: feat of reporting. I was a bit in awe of

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Speaker 2: you reading that chapter. I sometimes, you know, Walter Isaacson

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Speaker 2: will do this, you will do this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not. Don't mention me in the same sense with it,

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Speaker 1: but thank you.

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Speaker 2: I've sometimes you guys that write these books, you just

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Speaker 2: go a mile deep, and I'm jealous of not only

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Speaker 2: the time you have to do it, but your ability

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Speaker 2: to find it, bring it to light and tell it artfully.

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Speaker 2: I just think it's so fascinating now. I always thought

387
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Speaker 2: there was such a unique, interesting contrast between this great

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Speaker 2: looking hipster that went to Berkeley that ends up in

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Speaker 2: Green Bay, Wisconsin, the smallest talking about the loneliest places

390
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Speaker 2: in the NFL. Do you think Aaron on a social level,

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Speaker 2: what was Green Bay like for him? That's always been fascinating.

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Speaker 2: I know, he goes to Malibu in the off season,

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Speaker 2: but for about twenty weeks, you live in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2: Didn't you think he liked it appreciated it.

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Speaker 1: He did. And it's funny because after he got drafted,

396
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Speaker 1: of course, he's very disappointed that he plunged in the

397
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Speaker 1: first round. He was supposed to a lot of people

398
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Speaker 1: thought he should have gone number one to his childhood

399
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: team San Francisco. That was his dream. The Niners pick

400
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: Alex Smith instead, so he falls to twenty four to

401
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: Green Bay and Thomas Weatherspoon, former NCAA champion sprinter, was

402
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: a trainer for Aaron Rodgers. A guy made him faster,

403
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: and he said to him, this is great. This is

404
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: like Chico with snow and they Green Bay quarterbacks. In

405
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: Green Bay, they're gonna build a statue for you and

406
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: they're gonna love you to death, and there's no better

407
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: place to be. So this plunge in the first round

408
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: is really a blessing in disguise, and I think Aaron

409
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: saw that. And now I don't think the Green Bay

410
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: community embraced him like it embraced Brett Farr, because they

411
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Speaker 1: saw Farv is one of us, even though he was

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Speaker 1: from the South, yes, right, hunter fisherman, hanging out with

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Speaker 1: the boys in the bar, high fiving fans over a

414
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: beer by everyone around in the bar until of course

415
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: he went into until he got sober, and and then

416
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: that changed a little bit. But yeah, they saw he

417
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: is one of us, and I don't think they ever

418
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: saw Rogers as one of us. But I think it

419
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: was a really good fit for him, coming from a

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Speaker 1: small market, being overlooked, coming a juco guy, and then

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00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: he ends up in Green Bay and it really was

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00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: a great marriage, even though it wasn't the same relationship

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Speaker 1: with the fans that Farv had. And it just can't

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00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: believe that they only won oneampionship with him when you

425
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: look at the talent, and some of it is his fault,

426
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: but it's a shame. And really, at the end for

427
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: John Elway, he got a second ring, got his first

428
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: ring in a second ring at the end of his career,

429
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: and Peyton Manning got that second ring right at the

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00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: end of his career. And I think that it would

431
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: be a good thing really to see Aaron Rodgers get

432
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: that second ring before he retires, because he's too good

433
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: to retire with one ring. Thankfully, he's got one and

434
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: not zero, because we'd be really destroying him for that.

435
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: But he really should retire with multiple rings. And hey, listen,

436
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: the Jet fan base is the most fatalistic fan base

437
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: I've ever encountered, and at some point it's going to happen.

438
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: Entering the two thousand and four season, the Red Sox

439
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: fan base thought it would never happen, and it did.

440
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: Entering twenty sixteen, the Cubs fan base thought it would

441
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: never happen, and it did. The New York Ranger fan

442
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: base in ninety four thought it would never happen, and

443
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: it did. So at some point it will happen for

444
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: the Jets. Hopefully it'll be this year.

445
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: So when you gave me the early to middle chapters

446
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: of the book, and it's the kind of stuff folks,

447
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 2: you just pick a weekend when it's raining in the

448
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: fall and sit and read. It's just easy to devour.

449
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: I did not get the final chapters. Is there much

450
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 2: in it about the Jets? It's a very brief part

451
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: of his career, and if anything is there, the relationship

452
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: with Sola, two good looking young guys, appear to be

453
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: very strong early. I wonder if it's as strong today,

454
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: I don't.

455
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: Think it is. He didn't say that, so I want

456
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: to make that clear. I did talk to him about

457
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: the Jets, the experience. I do have a lot on

458
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: the Jets in the book. Of course, that's at the

459
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: end of the book. And I think that when they

460
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: met that five hour meeting, when the Jets sent that

461
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: delegation out to Malibu to try to convince him to

462
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: force the trade to New York, he spent most of

463
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: his time with Salah in that meeting. Everybody else is

464
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: sort of hanging out on the backyard deck overlooking the

465
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean. But so I think he still has a

466
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: good He always had a good relationship with Sala I

467
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: still think it's strong. But they all know they're getting

468
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: fired if they don't make the playoffs this year. And

469
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: I think Aaron certainly has to question this guy's ability

470
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: as a head coach. I think he's a great guy,

471
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: and I think he is a guy if I were

472
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: an owner of an NFL team, I would want to

473
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: employ him. But as a defensive coordinator, he has not

474
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: proven that he can be a good head coach. He

475
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: hasn't done it. So Aaron knows that. So I think

476
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: he still likes him, still has maybe some belief in him,

477
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: not as much as when he signed on, But yeah,

478
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: this is this book has a lot of Jet material

479
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: in it, particularly how to play Unfolded where he got hurt.

480
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: It shouldn't have happened. I explain why he talks in

481
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: Deep Tale about that play. Wow ways that listen. Garrett

482
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: Wilson was open and so obviously the cut block technique.

483
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: I think the Athletic had a story about how Aaron

484
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: Is never liked cut blocking, and I talked to him

485
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: about that. And Dwayne Brown missed the cup block on

486
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: Leonard Floyd. That creates an opportunity. And it really was

487
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: an amazing night being in the building. I've never experienced

488
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: a more charged regular season crowd, not just for the Jets,

489
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: in my almost forty years of covering sports in New York,

490
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: any team. I mean that night, that crowd was unbelievable.

491
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: And to see it taken away four snaps in like that,

492
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: it was hard. It was hard to take. I was

493
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: getting text messages from friends, I feel terrible, your book

494
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: is dead and I didn't care about my book. I

495
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: felt heartsick for the fans and for him to be there.

496
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: In that point. Yeah, yeah, I remember the next day

497
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: after that, I went on the air and people knew

498
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: I was critical of Aaron, and I had several reach

499
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: out to me. And because I went on the air

500
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: and I said, I feel so bad for Aaron Rodgers,

501
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: I felt sick to my stomach. A I'd never root

502
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: against the player, root for a player getting hurt. But

503
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: I think Aaron has been a content machine for what

504
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: I do, and I do appreciate that. And you know,

505
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: he made some points on the vaccines that he may

506
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: be right. You know, I tended to get in line

507
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: with the government. Maybe I was wrong and gullible. I

508
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 2: don't know, but the book is coming out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

509
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: I could be wrong. Yeah yeah.

510
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: I was open minded and I told him I have

511
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: zero agenda with this book. I have no agenda whatsoever.

512
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: I didn't have any real negative thoughts when you arrived

513
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: in New York about you. And it's funny because I

514
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: had more trouble convincing people that that. They assumed I

515
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: was a liberal media guy with an agenda, and I

516
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: think after over time they realized I wasn't and I

517
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: was just trying to document a significant American life. But

518
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: I had more trouble convincing people to talk did with

519
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: my Belichick book, and that's that was a surprising part

520
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: of it. How many people were afraid to talk about

521
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers. And I think I won that battle over time,

522
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: but it was a battle to get there and so

523
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: but but yeah, it was Listen. I have a good

524
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: feeling about this Jets team, and I know you've been

525
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: a critic. I think you've been fair on Rodgers. Your

526
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: criticism to me is fair game. I would like to

527
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: look at the all time list, and I think you

528
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: have him a little lower than I have him. I

529
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: have him fifth. And the way I try to do

530
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: it is very subjective, of course, but try to make

531
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: it more objective. And my formula is to take regular

532
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: season MVPs plus Super Bowl MVPs. So it's a team sport.

533
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: But if you are the best player in the league,

534
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: and then how many times are you the best player

535
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: in the biggest game in American sports, put the two

536
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: together and come up with a number. And that's that's

537
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: why I have Aaron Rodgers in my top five. I

538
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: had him fifth, but I think obviously Mark Schleare said

539
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: he belongs at the kids table when it comes to

540
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: it at a gathering of all time quarterbacks, I think

541
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: he's the last seed at the main table. But I

542
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: think he belongs at the main table. Yeah.

543
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: I've always put him in the Merino class, where I

544
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: think he and Marino throw the prettiest ball. I want more.

545
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: I'm left hungry after their football careers, but it's indisputable

546
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: that they're iconic, They're brilliant. I'm more critical, although I

547
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: don't talk of him with Marino because I think Marino

548
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: had the first or second bet coach for his entire

549
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: career and Aaron didn't. Also, Dan Marino had an owner

550
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: and that helps in free agency. Aaron Rodgers didn't. So

551
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: I think at some point I will go down. I

552
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: will probably have him closer to eight or nine Marino.

553
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: In that same thing. Lway won the big games, Marino

554
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: didn't win as many, but I think we both believe

555
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: he's an all time talent. I've always had him ahead

556
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: of Farv, but I do think I do think he

557
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: needs to. Far have had a very, a really remarkable year,

558
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: thirty three touchdown, seven picks that first year in Minnesota.

559
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: Then he got injured that was. I mean that, in

560
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: my opinion, that was one of the great years by

561
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: an aging quarterback ever, maybe the greatest year by an

562
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: aging quarterback. If Aaron sputters here this year after last

563
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: year and kind of a weak year in Green Bay

564
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: at the end, I don't think it's not you know,

565
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: we forgot Jordan was so good. We forget about Washington.

566
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like footage has disappeared. I do think

567
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: Aaron needs to be we have to see some magic.

568
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: It's a nice way. It's icing on a very good cake.

569
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: And I you know, I kind of project their an

570
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: eight nine win team. I don't see twelve thirteen. But

571
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: I don't blame Aaron. I think I think the coaching

572
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: and the coordinating leaves a little to be desired. I

573
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: want to move to Bill Belichick because you've also done

574
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: the Belichick book, and Aaron and Belichick have one thing

575
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: in common.

576
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: I think.

577
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: Both at the end of their careers, made a decision

578
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: in the last seven or eight years, maybe five or

579
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: six years Belichick shared with urban Meyer. There's just certain

580
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: guys I want to coach, and I'm not going to

581
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: coach guys I don't want to coach well that's the

582
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: opposite of sacrifice for the team that Bill wanted to

583
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 2: be more comfortable. He relied on assistancy, knew even if

584
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: they failed elsewhere, Aaron, there was a certain language that

585
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: Bill was comfortable with, and he kept hiring his language

586
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: back and was comfortable with only certain players. Winning isn't comfortable.

587
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: It's uncomfortable Aaron has gotten. I think a disservice at

588
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator with Nat Hackett, Alan Lazard, Randall Cobb. It

589
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: is and I want to instead of addressing that with Aaron,

590
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: I want to address it with Bill. Do you think

591
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: Belichick reporting recently by ESPN that Tom Pelasarrow I think

592
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: said recently rich Eisens show he is interested in getting

593
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: back into coaching next year. Do you think the market

594
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: Is it a dynamic market or is it a two

595
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: to three team market because age scares people. Brady had

596
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: no market when he left New England. It was like

597
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: the Chargers and the Box. Kirk Cousins didn't have much

598
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 2: of a market for a very good career. Do you

599
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: think Belichick last year no market will have much of

600
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: a market.

601
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: I actually think you're onto something there about it being

602
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: a two or three team market. But I think the

603
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: interest from those two or three teams could be intense.

604
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: So I remember Brady said of the team he didn't name,

605
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: you're keeping that guy instead of signing. Then there was speculation, well,

606
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: who was that guy and what was that team? But

607
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: I felt that way about Belichick in this last cycle.

608
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: You're hiring that guy or keeping that guy, and not

609
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: high Bill Belichick. But I do think just look at

610
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: the NFC East. Could you imagine Jerry Jones hiring Belichick. Yeah. Now,

611
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: Belichick working with Jones, I know they have a good relationship,

612
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: but Parcells told me that it was a problem when

613
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: he was there. He liked Jerry Jones, didn't have a

614
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: major problem in them overall. But after games, Jerry Jones

615
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: holds a press conference right outside the locker room. I've

616
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: been in five, six or seven of them, and the

617
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: coaches down the hall in the interview room, and those

618
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: messages could conflict, and Parcells said that was tough to

619
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: deal with. Imagine Belichick down the hall saying nothing and

620
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: Jerry's saying everything outside the locker room. Now, maybe Bill

621
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: can convince him not to do that anymore, but Jerry's

622
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: been doing that for a long time, and he puts

623
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: on a show. He'll talk about anything after a game.

624
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: So that'll be interesting to watch that marriage if it happens.

625
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: But the Giants, and if the Giants are I don't know,

626
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,479
Speaker 1: six and eleven again this year, Dable's in trouble and

627
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: the Marath family loves the Parcels, Belichick, Tree, and Bill

628
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: will be sitting there. And at the end of the day,

629
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: I've always felt this that deep in a place he

630
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: won't admits exists, Bill's a giant. That's the one building

631
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: he walked into. He saw the NFL films where he

632
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: got emotional right, so to end his career if he could.

633
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: The only reason he didn't get the job after Parcels

634
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: stepped down. Now Bill had already left for Cleveland. He

635
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: left because he knew that George Young the GM hated

636
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: him and was never going to hire him as head coach.

637
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: So George Young now in the Hall of Fame and

638
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: rightfully so, one of the best football men I've ever met,

639
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: But he hated Belichick. So to go back and have

640
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: that be his final job and to try to win

641
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: a championship in New York, Yeah, that would be something.

642
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: And I think that's a possibility, and I don't think

643
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: the Giants are gonna be very good this year, so

644
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: the Eagles, of course also possibly in place. So if

645
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: you're an He's head coach, beware because I think I

646
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: don't think Bill wants to go west. I think he

647
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: wants to stay near home, and I think the Northeast

648
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: is that's who he is, and so I suspect there

649
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: will be a lot of interest from two or three

650
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: teams and he'll get a job. Yeah.

651
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: The other one I would throw out is Buffalo. Although

652
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: Sean mcdermot's done a good job, there is a sense

653
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: as the asc AFC just keeps getting better that Buffalo

654
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 2: is kind of leaving, leaving some things on the on

655
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 2: the floor. I don't think here's why I'll throw that

656
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: one out. I think Bill holds grudges and to be

657
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: able to crush Robert Kraft twice a year and go

658
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: back to Foxborough, I think it's something Ian. It's a little,

659
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: but it feels like something.

660
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: It'll give you a better one than that the Jets

661
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: if they missed the playoffs, everybody gets fired, right, But

662
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: what if Aaron Rodgers makes fourteen starts, gets hurt in

663
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: the middle of the season, and Tyrod Taylor takes the

664
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: other three starts, plays a fairly high level of football,

665
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: better than his final year in Green Bay, not as

666
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: good as the MVP years, and Woody Johnson, who loves

667
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: star quarterbacks and loves Aaron, decides, I'm firing everybody, but

668
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: I want Aaron to come back. And I'll throw the

669
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: kitchen sink at Belichick and say, you walked out on

670
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: us on this before I became owner, after twenty four

671
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: hours as head coach, and you dominated us for the

672
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: better part of two decades. Why not finish your career

673
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: here with a quarterback who's a bat as close to

674
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: an aging Tom Brady as you can find, and a

675
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: guy you can work with. I mean, I think that's

676
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: a long shot, but I wouldn't completely rule that out.

677
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: So it's twenty twenty four, and let's talk about something really,

678
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679
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680
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681
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682
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683
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684
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685
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686
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687
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688
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689
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Speaker 2: slash colin or dial pound law from your cell phone.

690
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691
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Speaker 2: or pound law pound five to nine from your cell

692
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Speaker 2: Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting

693
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Speaker 2: for you to get a full and fair compensation if

694
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Speaker 2: there's an unexpected accident in your life. This is a

695
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: paid advertisement. When you attack these books, you make really

696
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: good choices, and there's a lot of people do this.

697
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: The Belichick book, the Derek Jeter book, the Aaron Rodgers book.

698
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 2: While you're a columnist, while you're doing other work, a

699
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: great dad, husband, you're you're a busy guy. Right when

700
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 2: you finished the Aaron book, what's the feeling of two

701
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: to three years of a mile deep? What's the feeling?

702
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: Are you just how do you.

703
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: Think I sort of feel that these books take a

704
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: few years off the end of your life. I hope that,

705
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: but it does feel that way. And but then when

706
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 1: you have like that first copy in your hands, Yeah,

707
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: that is a pretty glorious feeling, I have to admit.

708
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: And it is the hardest thing I've ever attempted to

709
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: do in this business, and one of the maybe the

710
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: second hardest, was filling in for you. Seriously. I mean this.

711
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this because I'm on with you,

712
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: but I've told my wife this, and she's a fan

713
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: of yours and other people. So I don't know, maybe

714
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: ten times eleven times I did your show when you

715
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: were at ESPN when you're on vacation, and to sit

716
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: there on national radio and national TV and basically do

717
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: a three hour show by yourself where you're debating yourself

718
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: and trying to create conversation with yourself as you did

719
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: so expertly, that might be the second hardest thing for

720
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: a time, because I don't have your personality or your

721
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: skill for it. And so that was a fight, and

722
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: it was it was just to try to reach a

723
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: respectable level. And I felt like I owed that to

724
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: you because they were putting me in your chair, and

725
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: I mean that from the bottom of my heart. That

726
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: is that might be the second hardest thing I've ever

727
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: attempted in this business. And that's a credit to you,

728
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: because you're the best at it.

729
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: Well. I always appreciate that. I want to talk about

730
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 2: I'm not a big believer. I think choices is another

731
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: word for fate. I'm pretty agnostic, though most of my

732
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: friends are very religious. I fear more toward the spirituality.

733
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: I think I don't believe in too many coincidences. Right now,

734
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: New York as the as the Yankee sort of spiral.

735
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: New York has had a bad mostly decade in sports,

736
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about this the other day. I

737
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: thought Jalen Brunson taking less one hundred and fifteen million

738
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: dollars less for the next was one of the savvyest moves.

739
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 2: And I know he'll get pushed back because the term

740
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: get the bag now is just synonymous with like NBA stars.

741
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: Is Brunson the most loved athlete in the last fifteen

742
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: years in New York since Ewing or since Jeter?

743
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: I think Eli's in there. I think Eli winning the

744
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: two Super Bowls, but he's close and Brunton, if he

745
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: just gets one, it's going to explode. But what's amazing

746
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: is and he'll he'll make up that money maybe in

747
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: the next contract. And I think he's eligible in twenty

748
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: twenty eight when he can get over three hundred millions.

749
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: So but he's smart. We go how smart this guy is.

750
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: He looks around and says, well, nobody in New York's

751
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: won a championship in forever, and the Knicks happened once.

752
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: It's nineteen seventy three. So somebody's going to be the

753
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: guy who does it. And the guy who does it,

754
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: if it's me, that's going to be worth a lot

755
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and thirteen million dollars in my lifetime.

756
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 1: He's going to be lionized forever. And he was smart

757
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: enough to figure it out. And so if you look

758
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: at New York Sports right now, and we've talked about this,

759
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: I think on other shows where New York sort of

760
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: lost its advantage over other markets because you can be

761
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: a global superstar in Oklahoma City wherever. The world is

762
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: so small now, so New York's lost that edge. But

763
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: the one edge New York has is if you look

764
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: at the Mets have one since eighty six. The Jets

765
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: haven't won since January sixty nine. The Knicks have won

766
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy three, The Mets haven one since eighty six,

767
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: the Yankees to them since two thousand and nine. That's

768
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: a drought. So if you come to New York and

769
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: end the drought, you are lionized forever. And it's the

770
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: payoff there is worth far more than one hundred and

771
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: thirteen million dollars, particularly when Brunton will get that back

772
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: in the next contract. He was smart enough to figure out,

773
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: now's the time I have to help the Knicks forminate

774
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: a championship roster because I'm going to lead that roster

775
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: and if we win it all that is going to

776
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: be something that you can't buy. And doing that in

777
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: New York after more than fifty years for the Knicks,

778
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: what is that going to mean to him? Mark Messier

779
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 1: won five Cups in Edmonton. He ended a fifty four

780
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 1: year drought in New York and that's the only cup

781
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: anyone ever talks about. Is winning number six is the

782
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: one he one and the drought for the Rangers, and

783
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: he'll tell you that that they talk more about that

784
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: than the other five combined, and he can't buy a

785
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: meal in New York, of course, for the rest of

786
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: his life. So yeah, Brunson is smart enough, he's figured

787
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: it out. I'm making killer money, multi generational money anyway,

788
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: so let me try to do what I can to

789
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: be the guy who ends the drought. So then my

790
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: legacy goes to a stratosphere I can't even imagine. So

791
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: I think he's made the right play.

792
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 2: Here for the audience listening that doesn't know the hierarchy

793
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 2: of the Knicks. They may know James Dolan, who I

794
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: think was side pracked with the Sphere for two years,

795
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: which allowed the front office to control basketball as Dolan

796
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: stepped away. He has a musical background and it was

797
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 2: actually an advantage. Now the Sphere's done, the Sphear's done,

798
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: he's back to talking about how much he loves Julius Randall,

799
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: which is problematic because I don't think he fits with

800
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 2: what they Once Hartenstein left, they lost size at true center.

801
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: Randall small. I don't think he fits this small lineup,

802
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 2: which often goes four guards. It'll be now three guards.

803
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: McHale bridges. So I don't think Randall fits. I think

804
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: he's productive. I don't think he's a good fit. And

805
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: here comes James Dolan, done with his Vegas project, to

806
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: talk basketball and how much he loves Julius Randall. But

807
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: over the last two years, the Knicks have arguably gone

808
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: from the most disfunctional organization ownership group to a highly

809
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: functional maybe not Miami or Golden State, but a highly

810
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 2: functional operation. Who do we give credit to? In the

811
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: suite upstairs?

812
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: Leon Rose is very simple and listen. He hasn't talked

813
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: to the media in I don't know more than two years.

814
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: It's New York City. I don't know how Adam Silver

815
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: and New Yorker lets him get away with that. I

816
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: wrote a column that was very critical of him a

817
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. The Knicks went crazy for this column.

818
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: And because he hasn't talked to the beat writers and

819
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: the media at large in New York City, it has

820
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: to be more than two years now, not one word.

821
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: So now Knicks fans don't care because the guy knows

822
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: what he's doing. And I'll admit that, I'm not afraid

823
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 1: to say he's done a great job. Early on, he struggled.

824
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: He made some moves that Tibbs didn't like he got

825
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: a couple guys in that like Cam Reddish that Tibbs

826
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: didn't want and fourty A and Kemba Walker, guys that

827
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: Tibbs didn't want. And but man, it's one home run

828
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: now after another, and I have to give a man

829
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: credit for doing it, and so I will. And now

830
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: his roster is one that Could they go to the

831
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: NBA finals next year after getting Bridges, Yeah, I think

832
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: they can because it's so hard to repeat now in

833
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: the NBA. And look look at Denver this year. They

834
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: couldn't get through even to the finals. And after they

835
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: won last year, we thought they might win three of

836
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: the next four. And I guess they still might. Boston,

837
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: it's going to be tough to do it again. They're

838
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: coming back with the same team. Are they better than

839
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: the next air roster? Yes, but it's just so hard

840
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: to get back that I think there's an opportunity there

841
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: for the next to get through and challenge somebody in

842
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: the West. I think Bridges was the right move. You're

843
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 1: right about Randall, but you know what, he's a twenty

844
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: four and ten guy and I think he has value

845
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: around the league. If they don't move him, what they

846
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: could use is a center who could shoot from the outside,

847
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: just to open up lanes for Brunson and hart and

848
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: Dee Vincenzo and Bridges, and just to space the defense

849
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: out some they don't they didn't have last year with

850
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson a center who could do that.

851
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: So if they can move Randall into packs now they

852
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: had to send so many assets out to get Bridges.

853
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: But if for a I don't know, does Minnesota decide

854
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: that Karl Anthony Towns and Edwards and Gobertt's that doesn't

855
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: quite fit. We need to add a different piece to

856
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: win it all. Maybe I know that Cat. I know

857
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: that Timms is willing to coach Cat again even though

858
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: they they had problems in Minnesota. I know that for

859
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: a fact. And I also know as a New Jersey kid,

860
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: he does have Towns does have some interest in playing

861
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: for the Knicks at some point. So, but it would

862
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: be something like that maybe I could see happening. But

863
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 1: I do think Randall has value around the league.

864
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when he was in Los Angeles, you know,

865
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: he's one of those players where the league, the culture

866
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: and the style of the league changed and Dwight Howard

867
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: fell off a Cliff Randal didn't. But he's not aligned

868
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: with current basketball. He's not going to shoot from the perimeter.

869
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: He's kind of an old school bully ball, physical player,

870
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 2: relentlessly hard player, intense. It doesn't look it's not aesthetically pretty,

871
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: it's not the current game. But he's productive and there

872
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: is you know, sometimes he has struggled in the playoffs,

873
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: but there is value. I in dropping twenty four and

874
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: eight a night in the regular season, which is such

875
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: a treadmill. Which is I mean, it's a long hike

876
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: and a dark, windy road, and I think he provides

877
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: for a lot of teams stability and production. But I

878
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: got to tell you, as somebody who started watching the

879
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: NBA in the early seventies, I find the Knicks have

880
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: the and this is hard for a big market team.

881
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: I find them incredibly likable. The Villanova thing is God,

882
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: they're likable. I can't think of the last I mean,

883
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 2: I didn't necessarily love the Giants. The Yankees were fun,

884
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: but again, out spending everybody, this Knicks team feels like

885
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: one of the more huggable in New York history.

886
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: No question, Colin and you look at Brunson, is the

887
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: biggest reason why because he's the guy again, as when

888
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: he arrived, I wasn't sure and many people weren't sure

889
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: if he was good enough to be the second best

890
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: player in the championship team. I think he's proven he

891
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: could be the best player on the YESEA yeah, right,

892
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: with the right pieces around him. But now taking less

893
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: money sort of a lah Tom Brady and trying to

894
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: help the roster and trying the championship and just saying

895
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: all the right things. I mean, he would fit in

896
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: with the Red Holtzman Nicks in nineteen seventy and seventy three,

897
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: and he fits in today perfectly. And he was a

898
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: coach's son, a point guard son, and you could just

899
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: see he's got so much savvy on the floor. His

900
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: footwork is unbelievable. I think he's got the best footwork

901
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: for a guard I've ever seen, particularly in the paint.

902
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: And he's not athletic. You look at his body, he

903
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: doesn't look like an NBA player, so it doesn't look

904
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: like an NBA superstar, and yet he is. And it's

905
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 1: like every night. I remember his first year in New York.

906
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: Tim Bontems and ESPN used to make fun of me

907
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: because I was working at the New York Post as

908
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: a columnist, and every time I went to a Knicks game,

909
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: I wrote a column about Jalen Brunson. And are you

910
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: ever going to write about somebody else? And I said, no, Tim,

911
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: because I've been around a lot longer than you, and

912
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: I see what's happening here. In year one, you could

913
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: see it. It was a perfect marriage between market and athlete,

914
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: and it was only going to get better. And that's

915
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: exactly what's happened.

916
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ian O'Connor upcoming book, Out of the Darkness, The

917
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 2: Mystery of Aaron Rodgers, comes out next month. How long

918
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: officially did it take to write that book beginning.

919
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: To end the actual writing process? Probably five months. Of course,

920
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 1: there's a lot of reporting that goes into it, and

921
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: I like for these books, particularly unauthorized books, where the

922
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: subject is giving you very little, if anything at all,

923
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: You're interviewing hundreds of people. So listen, it wasn't as

924
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: long as Belichick. Aaron Rodgers hasn't been on the planet

925
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: as long as Belichick. Belichick was the I think I

926
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: want to say that was a full three years. This

927
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: was more like a year and a half and I

928
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: would say the average for me is probably two years.

929
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: I did want this book to come out when Aaron

930
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: was still playing, and so a lot of people thought

931
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: I was dead in the water when he got hurt

932
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: last year. Well, the book's coming out this year. I

933
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: don't want to say the injury it was an awful

934
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: thing to witness, but in some ways I think it

935
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: might have helped the book. Most people assumed it killed

936
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 1: it because last year is now this year, and they

937
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: have to get in the playoffs. He has to have

938
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: a big year or this whole thing is getting blown up.

939
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: So I actually think that might add some intrigue to

940
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: the story that I've told here as the season unfolds.

941
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: Also, they got a little bit of a break from

942
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 2: the schedule maker, a lot of night games, a lot

943
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: of standalone games. They opened with Stan Francisco, So, as

944
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: you know with book sales, the more he's in the news,

945
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: the more controversy, the more people are fascinated. They're going

946
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 2: to be on TV all of September and early October,

947
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: and if they win, which I suppose they'll do outside

948
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: of the Niners opener, that'll help. I mean, the best

949
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 2: thing for your book is a six game Aaron Rodgers

950
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 2: winning streak.

951
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And the worst thing Colin is, of course,

952
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: and God forbid he gets hurt on opening night again.

953
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: And I'm like, when I saw that schedule, I said

954
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: to myself to the NFL, are you trying to get

955
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: him hurt on opening night again against San Francisco on

956
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: the road?

957
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: Did it happen with a new offensive line?

958
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: Exactly so? And listen, it's interesting because they didn't draft

959
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: him number one in two thousand and five, and they

960
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: should have. And that's that was his childhood team. He

961
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: loved Joe Montana and Steve Young, and he wanted to

962
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 1: be the quarterback of the San Francisco forty nine ers.

963
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: He can't beat them in the playoffs, right, He's lost

964
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 1: to Kaepernick and Garoppolo in the playoffs, and he struggled

965
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: against them in the postseason. He's had some success against

966
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: San Francisco in the regular season. So, but that is

967
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: a tough opening night for him, brutal a year after

968
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: he got hurt on opening night after four snaps or so.

969
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: I didn't love that first game. But if you look

970
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: at their schedule, could you see an avenue for them

971
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: to go eleven and six, ten and seven, I would

972
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: say that, yes, that's possible. I have a good feeling

973
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: about it. Usually when I write books about people, they

974
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: have very successful seasons when the book is out. So

975
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: for the sake of Jets fans who are very fatalistic

976
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, and have been waiting, right, I always

977
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: say that the Jets have not appeared in a Super

978
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: Bowl since Neil Armstrong stepped on the move, so it's time.

979
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: It's time for magic to happen. I think it would

980
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 1: be a great story. I'm selfish in terms of wanting

981
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: that for my book, but that aside, I do want

982
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: to see that. I've never covered a Jets Super Bowl.

983
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: I'd love to be able to do that, and I'd

984
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: love to see Jets fans get that payoff.

985
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: Ian O'Connor, my friend, it's always great to see you.

986
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 2: Know how much I respect you and enjoy this stuff.

987
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: And you don't have much of a stummer left, but

988
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: what you do before you start digging into camps a

989
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 2: couple of the Giants and the Jets. I wish it well, and.

990
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: Really I met what I said before, and you know

991
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: what I feel about you and your work, So thank

992
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: you very much.

993
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: Calm. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,

994
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 2: take a moment, rate and review