WEBVTT - The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Trump, Musk & the Media Machine with Miranda Devine 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.800 Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am so excited 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.720 today because my friend Miranda Devine is here. She is, 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.480 as you probably know, an award winning calumnist at The 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.120 New York Post. But now she has a new podcast. 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.160 It's called Podforce one, and she just happened to launch 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.560 it with like the best guest ever, President Donald Trump. 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:21.239 Thank you so much for being here, Miranda. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.880 Oh, thanks for having me, Tutor. It's great to be 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:24.279 with you. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.840 I thought your interview was fantastic. I mean I listened 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.280 to it, and it covered so many things, but it's 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.760 it was also fantastic because I think President Trump was 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.479 more open and honest and relaxed than I've seen him 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.840 in a long time. I felt like he just knew 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.599 you were there to have a good conversation with him, 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.400 and you got a lot of really strong information from him, 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:48.680 which was amazing. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:50.559 Thank you. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.440 And look, I mean, it's hard to do a bad 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.200 interview with President Trump because he's really so generous with 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:03.760 his time, his thoughts, his kind of perceptions about the 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:09.000 world and people. If you care to not do gotcha 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.000 questions all the time and you have some respect, he 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.840 gives a lot and he knows a lot, and he's 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.640 been through a lot. He has a lot of wisdom, 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.679 a lot of insight, a lot of access to the 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:24.440 most powerful people in the world. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:26.679 So he's really worth listening to. 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.320 No, that's such a good point that if you don't attack, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.800 and we don't always have to be attacking everybody. And 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.840 you gave him a lot of opportunity to talk about 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.760 what happened in the Biden administration, what's happening in his administration. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.000 I thought one part was really interesting because you went 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.520 through the auto pen in great detail and said, you know, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.360 were these crimes that were committed? And I thought he 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:51.920 gave a lot of grace there because he said, look, 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.080 it's not up for me to go after him. And 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.800 he said I don't actually think Joe Biden knew what 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.520 he was doing. I think other people used it. And 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.240 he gave him a lot of credit for what he 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.200 thought in the past. I felt that was interesting too, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.720 because Donald Trump was looking at who Joe Biden had 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.960 been before he kind of lost as marbles and said 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.040 he was never for open borders, he was never for 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.440 any of this. He said, they took over the White House, 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.360 what was What did you think when you heard him 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:20.720 say that. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.600 I actually that was one aspect that I did not 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.640 agree with him on it. I mean, I wasn't going 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:28.720 to challenge him there and then because it's really just 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:35.280 an opinion. And I just think he's given too much 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:40.040 grace to Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden really has 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.960 never believed in anything. He's just a hollow man who's 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.520 gone with the flow. So when the flow in the 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.480 Democratic Party was to be tough on crime, he was 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:51.440 the toughest you could get on crime. You know, it 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.600 was three strikes and you're out. You know, get tough 0:02:54.639 --> 0:03:00.200 on crack dealers, etc. But when things turned in the 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.680 other direction, I mean you just remember in the twenty 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.520 twenty primaries when all those Democrats were up on stage 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.000 and they were asked, would you give. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.160 Free medicare to illegal aliens? 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.639 And they all put up their hands, including most enthusiastically 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:18.040 was Joe Biden. So I think, particularly when it came 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.680 to the border, I think that this was something he 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.480 was well in favor of. He didn't not know what 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.280 was going on, of course he knew, and I think 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.680 maybe he'd been. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.800 Well, look, there are three possibilities. 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:38.080 Either he was simply a puppet, lazy, kind of losing 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.960 his marbles and just didn't fight against anything, just was 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.040 quite happy. I think really his main aim to become 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.480 president was the glory of it, the respect he got, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.960 the plane, you know, Air Force one, the house, the 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:59.240 White House camp, David swaning around the world, being the 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.080 big man on campus. That is I think what motivated 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.720 him more than anything else. I don't really think he 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.600 was that interested in making America a better place, you know, 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:12.760 having peace. 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:13.040 In the world. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.760 I don't think that even really was part of his mindset, 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.920 whereas that is exactly what Donald Trump thinks about all 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.760 the time. So, either Joe Biden was just lazy and 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.080 decided to outsource the important parts of his presidency to 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.240 other people because he was too old, too tired, too lazy, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.599 too be fuddled to do it himself, or he was 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.200 just always been a chameleon, and he's just a pure 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.719 political animal. And he goes wherever the party, wherever's beneficial 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.839 to him to maintain his power wherever the party is gone, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.160 and the party has gone well left. And he was 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:55.440 like this moderate fig leaf that they used to win 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.400 the twenty twenty election. And you know, he had a 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.680 lot of problems, mainly his corruption, but also secondarily, I 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:07.960 would say, his cognitive decline, which obviously accelerated over his presidency. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:09.840 But they buried all that. 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.640 They covered up his corruption, they covered up his cognitive issues, 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:18.320 they installed him as their candidate, and they rigged the 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.000 election to make sure he won. And America has paid 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.400 the consequences ever since. And now Donald Trump's trying to 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.679 clean up the mess. And the third option, I guess 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.719 is that he was so befuddled that he didn't know 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.880 what was going on. But I think that's the least likely, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.159 but I think it is the most charitable, and I 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.720 guess from Donald Trump's point of view, he doesn't want 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.080 to trash previous presidents because that trashes the presidency, and 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:50.160 he believes very deeply in the prestige of the presidency, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.599 and of course he's there, so it benefits him. 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.520 I'll have more coming up with Miranda Devine, but first 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.480 I want to take a moment to hear from our 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:03.520 partner at IFCJO seeing something truly disturbing. Anti Semitism is 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.600 on the rise. 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I f CJ right now now, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:33.320 Stay tuned. We'll be back with more after this. I 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.040 think it's so much better than what we saw Joe 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.200 Biden do for four years, going after Donald Trump and 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.520 trying his hardest to get him convicted of a crime, 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.960 and he would trash him publicly. And I thought it 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.560 was such an incredible moment to hear Donald Trump give 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.160 him grace. But I want to get into what you 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.200 said because I think that you see things in a 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.920 way a lot of people don't, because for years we 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.680 have been so duped by that typical politician. And what 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.720 you said just now really resonated with me because I 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:06.360 see it in Michigan. I mean, I see it with 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.240 Gretchen Whitmer, but I see it with Republicans too, where 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.200 it's like, I'll say whatever it takes to get to 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.880 that next level of power. And I think that's the 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.480 most dangerous person out there. And how do we tell 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.640 the public to be prepared or warn them of who 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:21.320 that person is? 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.560 Look, that's such a good question. 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.160 I think it's the essential question of politics, and it's 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.240 an age old question, you know. I think that's why 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.360 politicians are pretty down on the totem polo, although I 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:40.920 think journalists reason law. Look, what has always been the 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:47.760 protection against the snake oil salesman politician is a robust 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.800 and honest media. And unfortunately the fourth estate has become 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:57.480 corrupted itself for various reasons. I mean, there are some structural, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.760 kind of monetary reasons that Internet just totally disrupted the 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:07.600 sources of income for the established media brands. Moving to 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.760 a subscriber base has meant you know, like the New 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.160 York Times has quite successfully, but that means that they're 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:20.480 captive to their subscribers. That's their constituency. It's not really 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:22.720 to sept tolic. 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.000 Yeah, and I really thought about that. But you have 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.720 people paying for your product, so you better deliver what 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.080 they're expecting you to deliver exactly. 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.880 And you know, it's very cheap to get a subscription 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.439 to the New York Times. They're always doing, you know, bargains, 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.600 and if you say you're going to you're going to cancel, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:42.480 then they give you an. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:43.200 Even bigger bargain. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:44.719 I mean, you can get it for you know, a 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.760 few cents a week and or a dollar a week anyway, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:49.600 but if you if. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:50.760 You bargain, you can get it for less. 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:55.319 So I find it interesting, like the subscribe, but who 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.440 the subscribers are is a big secret. You know, they 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.800 will not allow anyone to see it, they know. But 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:09.040 what's to stop big blocks of activists. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.080 From buying, you know, spending a million dollars buying a 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:16.319 million subscriptions. That's cheap. What's to stop China from doing that? 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.840 You know, it's a much easier way of controlling the 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.360 New York Times. You know, you buy ten million subscriptions 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.880 and you control the paper. It's a lot cheaper than 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.000 buying shares in New York Times company. 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.720 I mean, that's bad. That's fascinating to think about because 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.080 we have had Gordon chang On here so many times, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.560 and he's talked about all the different ways that China 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.920 infiltrates the United States in ways you don't know and 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.839 you don't think about. And honestly, that's something I hadn't 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.520 thought about, the fact that the subscribers make the paper 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.640 trend one way or the other. But yeah, absolutely, And 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.920 why wouldn't they That is an inexpensive way to disrupt 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.680 and cause chaos in the United States. And chaos is 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.960 what they want exactly. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:05.400 Chaos is what they want. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.160 And you know, when people can't, you know, the public 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.319 can't believe anything anymore. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.440 I mean, they've lost trust in institutions. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.240 I think, you know, the twenty four election was a 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:22.160 real watershed in the sort of red pilling of America because. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:24.040 You know, there we. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:29.080 Had most of the mainstream media telling the public that 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:34.160 Donald Trump was you know, like Nazi, he was Hitler, 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.800 he was an insurrectionist, he was a criminal, he was 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.439 a crook, he was a Russian spy. 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.440 I mean, whatever they could throw in him, they threw 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.920 at him. He was amoral, he was a degenerate, he's stupid, 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:53.120 he's senile, I mean, you name it. They blagouted his 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.680 reputation every which way, and it worked. And not just 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:57.320 in America. 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.200 Around the world there are still country Sweden and Australia 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.880 saw a pole recently where something like sixty or seventy 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.680 percent and you know, don't like Donald Trump, they. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:08.760 Reject his leadership. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:15.320 And in America, what happened was that the public started 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:20.320 to disbelieve and distrust those media organs that had been 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.080 lying to them for so long, and they voted for 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:25.640 Donald Trump in droves. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.079 They saw behind it, they went to alternative media. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.239 Donald Trump was very good at going outside the mainstream 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.720 media and connecting directly with the audience. I mean, his 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:41.600 rallies are important for that reason. His superb genius level 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.640 communication skills. Nobody does it like him. He's mocked for 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.920 his simple use of language, but I mean that's the 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:55.280 greatest writing of all is distilling complicated topics down to 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.480 a simple message. And that's what he does, and he 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.440 gets through to people. He gets through their. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:01.320 Hearts and their minds. 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.920 And he managed to bypass the New York Times, the 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.040 rancid Lies from MSNBC, Washington Post, c and then you know, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:14.239 ABC News, all of them, and he won the popular vote. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.920 I think. But I think you so many people had 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.120 a big part in this because you broke the story 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:28.040 on the Hunter Biden laptop and it was disappeared, and 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.240 I think that was a kind of a moment where 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.679 there were a lot of people. I mean, you talk 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.640 about the red pilling of America, but there were a 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.480 lot of people who at that moment went why would 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.040 they get taken off of Twitter? Why would they be 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.240 ban from all these places? And so along the way 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.040 the way it had to happen, and I think it 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.280 had to happen this way. And I really believe that 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.320 this is the reason Donald Trump didn't have a second 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.760 term in twenty twenty was because I believe that God 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.200 was looking out for us and saying, there is so 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.160 much bad happening behind the scenes that you have to 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.800 know about it. And you broke that story. Everything got disappeared. 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.800 Elon Musk came in and he said, we're going to 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.280 expose this. We're gonna have the Twitter files come out. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:16.640 And that was a shocking moment. Those those hearings were unescapable. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.280 People could there was no going back for the Democrats 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.400 at that point and say no, we didn't go and 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.160 help pick out this conservative and kick him off, pick 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.720 out this conservative and kick him off. We didn't actually 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.240 take away your free speech. They couldn't say that because 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.640 they had done that. And I thought you had a 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.520 very sweet exchange with President Trump about Elon Musk, because 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.200 of course we saw the big blow up, and I 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.720 think that Elon, you know, he made the point he said, Oh, 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.920 he wouldn't have one without me, Donald Trump. No one 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.400 can take this election away from Donald Trump. No one 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.640 can take anything away. Like you said, he's a master communicator. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.200 He went places that he couldn't have gone. But I 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.320 do think that everyone played a role to get us here, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.880 and Elon gave up a lot. I don't know why 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.720 he did what he did recently. I think that you 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.240 can tell me your opinion, but I think that when 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.760 you haven't run for office, and he hasn't run for office, 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.880 there are a lot of people who got involved in 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.840 the Trump campaign when feelings were high. Everybody was excited, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:24.160 and there is an energy when you walk out on 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.800 that stage with Donald Trump. You feel it. You feel 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:31.280 this love, this amazing overwhelming sense of joy at those rallies. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.920 You just talked about it. And Elon had seen that, 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.560 but he became kind of the figure I think even 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:42.480 Saul Alinsky was always the theory of his ruining and 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.040 disruption of a country is to focus on one character 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:46.760 and take them down, and that was kind of what 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.160 the Democrats did with Elon Musk. They were like, zoom 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.480 in on this guy, make him the enemy. Do you 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.160 think that that was too much for him. Donald Trump 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.800 wasn't mean when you talked about it. He said, there's 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.920 no hard feelings, which I think people weren't ex. 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.880 Yes, that's just fascinating what you've just said. I agree 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.360 with it all. And yes, Donald Trump was very gracious 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.640 about Elon Musk. Elon had said some terrible things about him, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.480 things that you can't take back and really you can't forget. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.720 And you know, everyone expects Donald Trump to hit back harder, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:27.520 but he's discerning and he understands that Elon is a 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.600 different type of person, you know, almost childlike in some ways. 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.800 Elon himself has said that he's on the spectrum that 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.320 he suffers from depression. He has a different kind of 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:43.520 emotional and mental makeup to the average person, which is 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.960 probably the key to his incredible success. I mean, you 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.400 don't get to be the richest man in the world 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.760 with this corn ucopia of different companies where you're breaking 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.200 ground and just doing the most amazing things and amazing 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:58.239 things for humanity. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:16:58.440 You know. 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.720 I think he really has a good heart, and he 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.800 does want to help people who can't walk to walk again, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.320 help the blind to see, get mankind to Mars. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.880 He really is just an extraordinary man. 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.480 But I saw him at the White House, as I said, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.720 and he really had a kind of a paternal relationship, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.240 you know, father son relationship with Donald Trump. And because 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.840 he had a terrible childhood of his own, his father 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.400 was just a monster from all accounts. And Elon says 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.480 that himself and so and Donald Trump's the opposite. I mean, 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.520 people don't give him credit for this, but he really 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.840 is great with children. You see kids around him, they 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.680 flock to him. Kids and dogs always have an instinct 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.120 about adults who are safe to be around, and they 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.720 flock to Donald Trump and he likes them. You know, 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.080 he doesn't pander to them, but he just likes them 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.480 and they get that good vibe from him. And Elon 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.760 was like that too, and he's Donald Trump is a 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.239 can't man, and like he has great relationships with all 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.000 his adult children. They're all well adjusted adults. 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.760 And I think with Elon Musk, he probably detected that 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:15.520 he was someone in need of kind of emotional fulfillment 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:21.480 of some you know, sustenance, warmth, kindness. And look, he stayed. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.160 Overnight a couple of times with Donald Trump in the residence, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:26.800 slept in the Lincoln bedroom. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.160 They talked every time I saw them together. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.080 You know, for instance, on election night, they're sitting next 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.320 to each other, engaged deeply in conversation for hours. Donald 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.879 Trump was very interested in what Elon Musk had to 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.399 say and gave him his undivided attention. And Elon Musk 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:48.159 sacrificed so much, you know, billions of dollars was wiped 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.399 off Tesla. He was demonized. He was a darling of 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.840 the left. Now he's an absolute demon of the left. 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.280 He I think what happened was he just threw his 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.679 all into it, like he does with every project, and 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.680 he it just government didn't bend his will like private 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.960 companies do. And he buttered heads with some important people 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.280 in the administration, including Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and Secretary 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.920 of State Marco Rubio. I mean, I asked Donald Trump 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.760 about that, and he did agree that there was a 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.119 fight between Scott Bessont, very loud sort of pushing and 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:29.320 shoving between Scott Bessant and Elon Musk outside the Oval office. 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.439 Donald Trump said that there wasn't a fist fight, but 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.800 there was shouting, as did you hear it? 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.480 And he said yes, And. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.000 I love how he's like, I mean, that's not like 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:40.080 totally unusual. 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:40.320 You know. 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.879 He was like, this is the high stakes, and I 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.240 mean it's true, you think true you should have people 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:50.040 with emotion and he said, he said he to be successful, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.399 you need energy. I thought that was fascinating because we 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.000 all hear that Donald Trump never sleeps, He's always thinking. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.159 He's always involved in every detail. And I think that 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.120 was kind of kindred spirit with Elon Musk because obviously, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:05.760 when you look at Elon you think energy. You know, 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.240 this guy has a ton of energy. You said, he 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.280 has this portfolio of businesses. He is high energy. But 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:17.080 I do think that he I think from the outside, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.600 we saw that paternal relationship and that I thought was 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.480 beautiful because I wanted to ask, do you think that 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.800 you see a difference in this President Trump than the 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:32.320 first term because the grace that he gave him. But 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.240 it was almost like he's like, you know what, we 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.199 got in a fight. But I don't want you to 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.879 trash him because he I think he still has a 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.320 bit of ownership over his relationship with Elon, like we 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:45.679 did something together and I'm not gonna let that be 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:47.160 anything be taken away from that. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:53.840 Yes, but also, look, I'm not sure that Donald Trump 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:54.359 has changed. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:55.280 I really don't. 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.080 I think he's one of the few people that doesn't change. 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.760 He learns and adapts, which amazing for a person of 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:07.880 his age, but I don't think that personality intrinsically has 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.000 changed since he was a child. 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.919 I just think he kind of said that, yes, like 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:13.919 people are born. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.600 This way, and you know, you do learn a bit 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.240 as you get older, but you don't really change intrinsically. 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.480 He certainly doesn't. And I think Victor Davis Hansen has 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.400 made this beautiful point, which is that it doesn't matter 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.399 whether Donald Trump is sort of out with the people 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.080 of Ohio inspecting you know, that railway disaster that happened 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.479 under Biden, or if he's in boardrooms in Wall Street 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.680 or at a rally or in Washington. It doesn't matter 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.359 who he's with world leaders. He's exactly the same. He 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.199 dresses the same. He doesn't a lot of politicians like 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.320 Joe Biden used to do this kind of slum at 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.400 go and dress in sort of working working man's clothes 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:55.960 when he went out with the Union guys. No one 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.640 buys it. No, Donald Trump is just Donald Trump, who 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.359 he is. But I think look during the debate with 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.720 Joe Biden, you saw the similar thing. He could have 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.040 gone in for the jugular, which would have been really 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.120 ugly because it would have been just kicking a dog 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:12.800 when he's down. 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:13.560