Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is not They.
Speaker 3: Call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super
Speaker 3: producer Andrew the try Force Howard. Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't
Speaker 3: want you to know. If you are listening to our
Speaker 3: listener mail program the evening it comes out, Welcome to
Speaker 3: February thirteenth. No worries. It's a Thursday, not a Friday,
Speaker 3: as the calendar reckons. We have so much stuff to
Speaker 3: get to. We're going to We're going to folks, to
Speaker 3: be honest. We learned about some crazy new plans of yesteryear.
Speaker 3: We got a magnificent first hand account from a firefighter
Speaker 3: or exotic landscaper as he prefers to be called.
Speaker 4: I shouldn't laughed. So much heavy stuff going on with firefighting,
Speaker 4: but it's good to have a little gallows humor, I
Speaker 4: guess around it.
Speaker 3: That's a good one. Oh my gosh. Telepathy tapes mushrooms, bigfoot,
Speaker 3: stefan voice. This has everything. We also got a lot
Speaker 3: of great responses to our conversation that we keep returning to.
Speaker 3: And I hope it's not me putting my own fascinations
Speaker 3: onto the group or projecting, but man, these chime erase
Speaker 3: the future of organs, especially as things get riddled with
Speaker 3: micro and nanoplastics.
Speaker 4: And personhood, which came up on our last Strange News episode.
Speaker 3: Strange News, Yeah, and that program we teased the mountain
Speaker 3: that became a man light. I didn't use because it's
Speaker 3: kind of gendered, but we talked about the tree and Athens.
Speaker 3: We've talked extensively about something that fascinates us all, which
Speaker 3: is the argument of the ship of thesis. And it
Speaker 3: turns out, fellow conspiracy realists, the five of us you
Speaker 3: listening along at home and try Force and Matt and
Speaker 3: Nolan myself are not the only people who are endlessly
Speaker 3: fascinated and maybe a little freaked out by the future
Speaker 3: of personhood.
Speaker 4: Let's jump to a tiny ad break and then we'll
Speaker 4: come back and get right into that conversation, and we
Speaker 4: return with a message from Colby Jack Cheese. Here again,
Speaker 4: Colby Jack says, and as always, you can use read
Speaker 4: this on the show if you want. With that being said,
Speaker 4: let's get to it. Listening to your most current listener
Speaker 4: mail as at the time of writing, episode where you
Speaker 4: talk about the eth of growing human organs in pig bags,
Speaker 4: which sounds like the name of an industrial band, and
Speaker 4: a question struck me like a kick from a horse.
Speaker 4: What if someone was in total body paralysis and you
Speaker 4: were given the choice to, through the power of imagination
Speaker 4: for now to transfer their mind to pig host so
Speaker 4: a new body can be grown. Is that pig a
Speaker 4: person now a human despite all the wet wear being
Speaker 4: distinctly different from a human. Does it obtain personhood or
Speaker 4: are they now lower on the food chain of humanity.
Speaker 4: I'll stop here to keep myself from rambling, but I
Speaker 4: will leave you with this. How do you measure personhood?
Speaker 4: Is it by intelligence? We have a hard time measuring
Speaker 4: that as far as I'm aware. Or could it be language?
Speaker 4: If your dog slash cat slash fox slash fourth dimensional
Speaker 4: fluffy friend could speak to you in perfect English, could
Speaker 4: it be considered a person despite being a clear non human.
Speaker 4: Love the show and all the interesting questions that keep
Speaker 4: me distracted from the bar fight going on today in society.
Speaker 4: Much love to you from me kolby Jack Cheese. You know,
Speaker 4: it's this makes me think of I don't know. There's
Speaker 4: a lot of depictions in like comic books, for example,
Speaker 4: of like sentient animals. There's that what has that one been?
Speaker 3: We three?
Speaker 2: Is that one?
Speaker 4: It's it's it's short and beautiful and sad and brutal
Speaker 4: and speaks to a lot of this kind of stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 4: oh oh, I know you did. You're one for the
Speaker 4: year whatever year that happened to have been. It is
Speaker 4: a story of super charged animals that are given the
Speaker 4: ability to more or less communicate in kind of weird
Speaker 4: broken English, and they're also designed to be murder machines
Speaker 4: for the government. They escape from the facility in which
Speaker 4: they are being essentially tortured and converted into these things
Speaker 4: they're not meant to be, and then they are pursued
Speaker 4: by something horrific. Let's put it that way. It's like
Speaker 4: Homeward Bound on speed and psychedelics.
Speaker 3: Cyberpunk, Homeward Bounce.
Speaker 4: It's wonderful, but it speaks to wouldn't you say, guys
Speaker 4: that it speaks to a lot of these questions of like,
Speaker 4: you know, we're hearing stories now coming out about technology
Speaker 4: that could potentially one day allow us to communicate with
Speaker 4: our pets. Given that technology and the ability for animals
Speaker 4: to speak in something that is intelligible on a human
Speaker 4: language level, does that change the way we think about them?
Speaker 4: And it also comes back to this idea of what's
Speaker 4: the term that the peda guy mentioned to us, The
Speaker 4: idea that certain animals are treated as lower than others,
Speaker 4: you know, less worthy of our care and love and respect,
Speaker 4: and more able to be seen as you know, good
Speaker 4: eats rather than companions. What's that term, guys, do you
Speaker 4: remember speciism? That's the one. It's this idea that there
Speaker 4: are certain animals, like, I mean, rabbits are an interesting
Speaker 4: one that kind of fall on that line, because yeah,
Speaker 4: we people eat rabbits, and people also have rabbits for pets.
Speaker 4: In the United States eating dogs, it would be considered
Speaker 4: more or less barbaric with our countries where that's acceptable
Speaker 4: as well. It does straddle the line of personhood. But
Speaker 4: I think that Colby Jack really does bring up some
Speaker 4: interesting questions. But this idea of if a human consciousness
Speaker 4: were transferred to a quote unquote lower life form. Does
Speaker 4: that change the nature of the lower life form? And
Speaker 4: if again, we were able to communicate with lower what
Speaker 4: we see as lower life forms, does that elevate there?
Speaker 4: I guess deservingness of personhood.
Speaker 3: I throw it to the room. Guys, Matt, you're throwing
Speaker 3: it as well.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I keep thinking about these videos I've
Speaker 2: seen of Teddy the Talking porky. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you hear.
Speaker 4: What I don't know about this? Okay, you see like
Speaker 4: a mood Dang esque figure. How have I missed Teddy
Speaker 4: the Talking Porcupine?
Speaker 2: Well, I see their older videos and who knows, like
Speaker 2: when they were originally posted, I haven't done the digging,
Speaker 2: but they show up nowadays as though they just happened.
Speaker 2: But I think they go all the way back to
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, twenty fifteen, things like that. But it's just
Speaker 2: a porcupine that loves shounddown on food, and while it's
Speaker 2: chound down on food, it's going and it just seems
Speaker 2: so human in the way that it seems to want
Speaker 2: to communicate things to the people that take care of it.
Speaker 2: And I just imagine just that idea of any animal
Speaker 2: that can speak, right, we get those things like a
Speaker 2: lot of the birds, especially that can speak, can vocalize
Speaker 2: and appear to respond, not just in a mocking way
Speaker 2: SIMI yes, yeah, and appear to say things, to get things.
Speaker 3: And to understand the nuances of language, abstract thought, object, permanence,
Speaker 3: things like that. Shout out to our COVID bros in
Speaker 3: the crowd. What's really fascinating about this, too is the
Speaker 3: Colby You're you're taking the next step in thought experiment
Speaker 3: I had raised and I think it was our Strange
Speaker 3: News segment or something like something to that effect, which
Speaker 3: was the idea of brain transference.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: What was that Faustian bargain we pitched or that devil's
Speaker 3: that devil's deal we pitched wherein someone could save your
Speaker 3: brain or the program of your brain, but they could
Speaker 3: only put it in a pig. Is that pig now human? Yeah?
Speaker 3: These are These are the logical questions that we will
Speaker 3: have to ask. Please, please, please, if you have not
Speaker 3: yet done so, do us a favor, do yourself a
Speaker 3: favor and check out our previous episode on the concept
Speaker 3: of legal personhood, which is really a mixed bag of
Speaker 3: badgers around the world. Depending on where you go. We
Speaker 3: talked about oh, you know what it was. It started recently.
Speaker 3: It restarted recently when we spoke about the elephants in
Speaker 3: Colorado who had recently lost their bid to get out
Speaker 3: of that zoo there in Colorado. This will only become
Speaker 3: more complex as a human understanding of what we call
Speaker 3: consciousness and intelligence continues to acquire sophistication and nuance. I
Speaker 3: love what you're bringing up there, Matt, which is the idea,
Speaker 3: the big question, the eternal question for the human is
Speaker 3: are you really seeing something akin to you in some
Speaker 3: respect or are you anthropomorphizing which is just the fancy
Speaker 3: pants way of saying, are you projecting what you would
Speaker 3: imagine human like traits to be on a non human
Speaker 3: an animal? And I got to say it, you guys,
Speaker 3: I am such a sucker for those videos that I
Speaker 3: usually in my head call they're just like us videos.
Speaker 3: You know. I love it when, especially really expressive domestic
Speaker 3: animals like huskies. Huskies get it, dude, Huskies get it,
Speaker 3: and they're sassy and they have an attitude and they
Speaker 3: sometimes they you know, we've all seen the clips. I hope,
Speaker 3: so I don't sound crazy where someone asked their husky
Speaker 3: a question, and the husky's.
Speaker 5: Like no, never, yeah, yeah, they say, hey, it's you
Speaker 5: can And that's just because, you know, as we talked
Speaker 5: about in Ridiculous History recent series on the domestication of
Speaker 5: these amazing creatures, the dogs, the.
Speaker 3: Canines, that's because they evolved to communicate more efficiently with
Speaker 3: humans than many other animals. But just because they've evolved
Speaker 3: to communicate with humans more efficiently or in a way
Speaker 3: that's more understandable to humans, doesn't mean that other animals
Speaker 3: are any less intelligent. They feel paid, they love laws.
Speaker 3: If you prick them, do they not bleed to rip off?
Speaker 3: Billy Shakes? Who is old? Shake your spear? That's Shakespeare.
Speaker 4: This article from Axios from late last year using AI
Speaker 4: to talk to animals, I think is super interesting. Researchers
Speaker 4: are building an AI system that they will hope will
Speaker 4: one day allow humans to understand the many languages that
Speaker 4: animals use to communicate with one another.
Speaker 3: A couple of things.
Speaker 4: What they're saying here, we are facing a biodiversity crisis.
Speaker 4: Earth Species Project CEO Katie Zakarian said during a demo
Speaker 4: of Nature LM at a recent Axios AI plus some
Speaker 4: in San Francisco. She said, the situation we are in
Speaker 4: today is driven from a disconnection with the rest of nature.
Speaker 4: We believe that AI is leading us to this inevitability
Speaker 4: that we will decode animal communication and come back into
Speaker 4: connection between the law. This is what actually has had
Speaker 4: to say about this sort of.
Speaker 3: Summing it up.
Speaker 4: Translation in the broadest sense is something that generative AI
Speaker 4: has proven to be quite good at. Sometimes that's translating
Speaker 4: from one human language to another, but the technology is
Speaker 4: also adept at transforming text from one genre to another.
Speaker 4: And added wrinkle with translating animal languages is that instead
Speaker 4: of moving between two known languages, we have a limited
Speaker 4: understanding of how animals communicate and what they are capable
Speaker 4: of conveying through speech. Researchers know, for example, that birds
Speaker 4: make different sounds to your point bent when they are
Speaker 4: singing songs as compared to sounding a warning call. They
Speaker 4: also have determined that many species have individual names for
Speaker 4: one another, and some, like prairie dogs, have a system
Speaker 4: of nouns and adjectives to describe predators. Earth Species Project
Speaker 4: is one of many endeavors looking to tap AI to
Speaker 4: address planetary concerns. I think that's an interesting spin on it,
Speaker 4: the idea of like closing the gap I guess between
Speaker 4: various aspects of the natural world. But I do think
Speaker 4: it's also interesting how they point out that just because
Speaker 4: you can translate it doesn't necessarily mean that you're like
Speaker 4: having a conversation, so I think. But again, it's also
Speaker 4: hard to kind of parse where we do draw the
Speaker 4: line for personhood and how like kind of selfishly human
Speaker 4: centric that concept even is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds amazing. It makes me imagine a time
Speaker 2: when any animal could communicate with some device, right that's
Speaker 2: around the animal, uh, and you just you hear it
Speaker 2: in your head or your headphones or wherever you are,
Speaker 2: almost like an esp kind of thing, right.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, And also that's something that's a feature,
Speaker 4: real feature of that comic they we're talking about, the
Speaker 4: way the animals communicate is this kind of broken English
Speaker 4: that implies a sort of real time translation of something
Speaker 4: more very specific to the species that is just kind
Speaker 4: of meant to be interpreted, you know, by human ears.
Speaker 3: And to that point we are getting now Kolbe, we're
Speaker 3: bringing it back to the earlier philosophical quandaries as well.
Speaker 3: But to that point, that we just made. If you
Speaker 3: are a lover of dogs you may already know this,
Speaker 3: or a lover of certain other animal species, you will
Speaker 3: see that there are devices out there that purport to
Speaker 3: do something close to this kind of communication. I'm thinking
Speaker 3: specifically about the button boards. Put a couple of links
Speaker 3: in our chat here. The button boards. You see it
Speaker 3: mostly in dog videos, and I'm smiling because gosh, I
Speaker 3: love animals, even the human ones. There's a there's a
Speaker 3: series of science doesn't consider until legit, but there are
Speaker 3: a series of these buttons pads like the old school
Speaker 3: Nintendo running track pad.
Speaker 4: You skinner box situation, like some of the old school
Speaker 4: pigeon talk, like the talking chicken. Like hitting the buttons
Speaker 4: and making communication sounds kind.
Speaker 3: Of similar, a little a little more nuanced because each
Speaker 3: button has, you know, a command and a specific consistent
Speaker 3: location such that if you if your doggo buddy is
Speaker 3: smart enough, they can try to communicate with you so
Speaker 3: instead of barking. This doesn't apply to huskies because they
Speaker 3: can basically speak. But if you're you know, say you
Speaker 3: have a really smart dog like an Australian shepherd or
Speaker 3: a collie or a poodle, then the idea is that
Speaker 3: once they learn this location series of buttons, and they
Speaker 3: learn which reaction it insights in their human pal then
Speaker 3: they will go up and instead of barking at you,
Speaker 3: they'll just they'll get your attention and they'll hit the
Speaker 3: button that says walk, or they'll hit the button that
Speaker 3: says treat you know, or maybe you have the name
Speaker 3: of their favorite toy. Obviously, science agrees they're not reading
Speaker 3: these things because we don't know any literate dogs just yet.
Speaker 3: But they know the location and they know the reaction.
Speaker 3: So this goes. This goes to show that we're getting
Speaker 3: closer and closer as a civilization to something like bridging
Speaker 3: the linguistic and cognitive gap. And I think that's amazing
Speaker 3: And to your point, Noel, yes, there are animals that
Speaker 3: are not canids that seem to be able to do
Speaker 3: the same thing. The question is how do we frame it?
Speaker 3: What's our perspective? Right? Does the crow understand what it's
Speaker 3: saying when it says all right, then mate, I'm referring
Speaker 3: to a specific specifically.
Speaker 4: One with the one with the monocle on the top hat.
Speaker 6: Right, Oh yeah, yeah, I know that Crowlutely, I'm not
Speaker 6: trying to be like mega mega like puritanically tree huggery
Speaker 6: about this, But I do think it's worth talking about
Speaker 6: just this idea of personhood and how you know, human centric.
Speaker 4: It is, and I know that we all benefit from.
Speaker 4: Again I'm going to sound like I'm being like a
Speaker 4: total hippier, but the enslavement of animals. But there is
Speaker 4: a certain philosophical thing to kind of contend with about
Speaker 4: this notion of what personhood is, especially as things like
Speaker 4: AI start to get more and more intense and more
Speaker 4: and more human like. I just think it's something that
Speaker 4: we kind of need to address.
Speaker 3: Well, is the human mind itself not already a large
Speaker 3: language model we're talking about being anthrocentric, right exactly. Methrocentrism
Speaker 3: is a huge bag of badgers. It's a difficult thing
Speaker 3: to quarrel with and really get a human mind around
Speaker 3: or outside of. You could ask the same question, you know,
Speaker 3: let's just flip the script for a second. We don't
Speaker 3: have to go too deep into this unless want to
Speaker 3: do an episode on it. But let's think about it
Speaker 3: this way. What if evolution went just a little bit differently.
Speaker 3: What if somebody got to the superpowers first, right, the
Speaker 3: way that humans reproduce, and they the way their brains work,
Speaker 3: and of course one of the greatest features of the
Speaker 3: human the thumb. Sorry everybody beat into that. When what
Speaker 3: if those things happen or something like that to another
Speaker 3: species and the primates ended up as a result not
Speaker 3: attaining Homo sapien hood, right, or not even not reaching
Speaker 3: past maybe habilis or something like that. What would those
Speaker 3: new creatures dominating the earth. What would the descendants of,
Speaker 3: say the elephant or the corvid or God forgive us
Speaker 3: the octopus? What would they think about humans? Would they
Speaker 3: have the same viral videos of us like trying to
Speaker 3: wave four fingers like octopy arms and going oh my god,
Speaker 3: well like us? Well yeah, well that too.
Speaker 4: But also like what if a quote unquote higher species,
Speaker 4: higher intelligence, higher life form were to enter the chat
Speaker 4: and then we began to be subjugated and treated the
Speaker 4: way we treat quote unquote lower life forms, Like it's
Speaker 4: just I don't know, I can't help.
Speaker 2: We have buttons, and we can press the button and
Speaker 2: shock callers, right, and you know they don't make buttons
Speaker 2: that say who am I Dad?
Speaker 3: Mom?
Speaker 2: Where pack? You know, like what is meadow? Who is meadow.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I love that point. But because there are
Speaker 3: there are no uh self awareness buttons. There are there's
Speaker 3: no button for existential crisis, but there are buttons for
Speaker 3: specific people because we know that animals can have favorites.
Speaker 3: So there's I I've seen, I want to say, a
Speaker 3: couple of videos where some influencer whose animal appeared to
Speaker 3: prefer her partner more and she's trying to get the
Speaker 3: dog to do something and it just keeps hitting the
Speaker 3: button that says dad, and then it starts barking at her,
Speaker 3: but again to the chicken scratch or the counting horse idea.
Speaker 3: Another inescapable part of this communication paraphernalia or attempt at
Speaker 3: communication technology is that animals, dogs especially but all non
Speaker 3: human animals, are very good at picking up unconscious human cues. Right,
Speaker 3: So are we just friming the response we want to
Speaker 3: see and then telling ourselves something different is happening. It's
Speaker 3: quite a pickle. And the real answer, I would posit
Speaker 3: Colby and thank you for the excellent email. The real
Speaker 3: answer that we're getting at here is simply this, the
Speaker 3: human animal does not understand the concept of the human.
Speaker 3: Animals still can't grasp the concept that other human animals
Speaker 3: are indeed people, and that's where the problem begins.
Speaker 4: That's a pickle, my man. That's very well put and
Speaker 4: something to put in our collective pipes and smoke for
Speaker 4: lack of a better term. I don't know, Mad, you've
Speaker 4: got anything else to have before we move on.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think I know what people is.
Speaker 4: You, guys. I had this other incredible email from a listener,
Speaker 4: like almost like telling this story about a.
Speaker 3: Fictional chimeric Oregon farm.
Speaker 4: But I think we're running a little long on this
Speaker 4: segment that has created so much incredible conversation, so I
Speaker 4: think I'm gonna save this one for next week. That's
Speaker 4: okay with you, guys, Yes, sir, Let's take a quick
Speaker 4: break here worth from our sponsor, and then we'll return
Speaker 4: with more messages from you.
Speaker 2: And we've returned, we are jumping to the phone lines
Speaker 2: to hear a message from Fleeve and I think this
Speaker 2: is a really interesting way to bridge the gap between
Speaker 2: our discussion before the break and into an even deeper
Speaker 2: thing within our own minds potentially, So let's hear this
Speaker 2: message from pleep Hey fellas.
Speaker 7: Play in the Northwest here. I was just curious if
Speaker 7: you guys have come across this crazy ass podcast called
Speaker 7: the Telepathy Tape. It's based on nonverbal or barely verbal
Speaker 7: autistic children that are communicating with their parents or caregivers
Speaker 7: or teachers heelopathically, and they also communicate with each other
Speaker 7: on this place called the hill at night when they
Speaker 7: dream teleopathically. And there's like a huge number of these
Speaker 7: people that are all communicating to each other in this
Speaker 7: ethereal space. I really want you guys to look into it.
Speaker 8: Let me know what you think.
Speaker 7: It's very crazy. It makes you think about Like they
Speaker 7: talk about an autistic child that can read, and they're like,
Speaker 7: where did you learn to read Hebrew? And the person
Speaker 7: says from the priests, and they're like what other languages
Speaker 7: can be learned? And they're like, I mean they type
Speaker 7: hiro and they're like, like hieroglyphics and they're like yes,
Speaker 7: So they show her some hieroglyphics and they read the
Speaker 7: hieroglyphics like absolutely bananas. Just to be opened up to
Speaker 7: this constant step because we already know about the I
Speaker 7: just set that like CIA document with the astral projection
Speaker 7: in the Mars viewing. It's like a legit document. It's great.
Speaker 7: I mean, all right, it's crazy. And then you have
Speaker 7: that in combination with.
Speaker 8: Bolth floor remote viewing trials, and then you have these
Speaker 8: people that are learning to communicate nonverbally because the human
Speaker 8: desire and condition like requires us to communicate.
Speaker 7: It's just fascinating. So look into the tape. Let everybody
Speaker 7: know about it. Let me know what you think, how
Speaker 7: ple've been in it? All right?
Speaker 2: Whoa please? My goodness. That's a lot, a lot to
Speaker 2: take in. And just to put this message out there,
Speaker 2: we are not sponsored by the Telepathy tapes. We're not
Speaker 2: connected to the Telepathy tapes. That is another podcast. We
Speaker 2: are going to talk about it now. Initial thoughts upon hearing.
Speaker 3: This, initial thoughts, Yeah, please, thank you so much for
Speaker 3: reaching out. The podcasting question garnered a lot of attention,
Speaker 3: and it garnered quite a bit of controversy. I haven't
Speaker 3: listened to all of the podcasts. I have listened to
Speaker 3: a few episodes, and I have to be honest, just ethically,
Speaker 3: I'm required to say this. There are there are very
Speaker 3: different interpretations of what's going on here, similar to as
Speaker 3: you said, Matt, the concept of communication cross species, and
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that autistic people are not human at all,
Speaker 3: or anybody on the spectrum is not. But I do
Speaker 3: think the evidence is clear that this is a form
Speaker 3: of projection and not astral projection. And my argument here, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: would be that every everything that I have encountered, not
Speaker 3: as an expert, here shows me that this could be
Speaker 3: dangerous to the treatment of people who do need special care.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Okay, well, let's let's listen to a bit of
Speaker 2: the trailer for this podcast that is available on YouTube.
Speaker 2: You can watch right now. Let's just watch a tiny
Speaker 2: bit together, just we get a sense of what the
Speaker 2: show says.
Speaker 3: It is joining us today to shed some light.
Speaker 4: Doctor Diane Powell.
Speaker 8: I'm working with children who have been reported by a
Speaker 8: parent to be able to read their mind. The data
Speaker 8: was so compelling and actual that I had to follow it,
Speaker 8: even though I knew I was missing my scientific reputation.
Speaker 2: So we'll just put that there, right, This concept that
Speaker 2: there is a doctor who is interested enough in this stuff,
Speaker 2: in receiving you know, specific messages from parents or caregivers
Speaker 2: who have children on the autism spectrum, you know, reporting
Speaker 2: self reporting these things. There's now a neuroscientist, doctor Diane Powell,
Speaker 2: who's looking into that. That's what the show is about.
Speaker 2: If you go to the website, guys, you can see
Speaker 2: that they've got that. It's Thetelepathy Tapes dot Com. They
Speaker 2: have a section that they call the test Library, and
Speaker 2: in this test library you can see individual videos that
Speaker 2: appear to be individual examinations like a one off test
Speaker 2: basically that is run that appear to test potential telepathy
Speaker 2: of some sort or brain connection of some sort that
Speaker 2: would be abnormal or would appear to you know, not
Speaker 2: be the way that human beings communicate and function generally,
Speaker 2: the way we observe. If you click on any of
Speaker 2: these individual tapes, it shows that you have to join
Speaker 2: the organization or you have to become a member of
Speaker 2: some sort and pay some money in order to see
Speaker 2: these individual things. That makes sense, right if you're attempting
Speaker 2: to monetize something like a podcast, like a website, like
Speaker 2: you know, further studies. But unfortunately, at least from this end,
Speaker 2: feels a bit weird because I would love to gain
Speaker 2: access to those raw tapes, just as somebody who's interested
Speaker 2: in the topic, to at least test for my own
Speaker 2: brain whether or not I believe these individuals to have
Speaker 2: these sorts of things right, or to be able to
Speaker 2: communicate in these ways, it does feel a little weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hear you. And that doesn't necessarily, to be clear, folks,
Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily mean that it is somehow functioning with
Speaker 3: bad intentions, right. And from what I understand Matt and
Speaker 3: Plabe and null Entry Force, what I understand is that
Speaker 3: proponents of the telepathy tapes have themselves criticized the critics
Speaker 3: and said, hey, you're being ablest because these people are
Speaker 3: not communicating in the methods that you or via the
Speaker 3: methods that you feel comfortable calling communication. However, again, there
Speaker 3: are just trying to be very fair. It seems like
Speaker 3: there's some serious issues with some of the methodology of
Speaker 3: the test, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. There is one specific test you can view
Speaker 2: in the trailer the test itself, the tape. You can
Speaker 2: view it on their website. It is titled UNO or
Speaker 2: UNO one Houston, and it is a test where there
Speaker 2: is there is someone who is being tested for telepathic
Speaker 2: abilities sitting at a table, their caregiver is sat next
Speaker 2: to them, and doctor Dian Powell is behind them, and
Speaker 2: she is showing the camera which is positioned across from
Speaker 2: the table UNO cards, so shuffling a deck then showing
Speaker 2: an UNO card to the camera. Then the person with
Speaker 2: supposed telepathic abilities is pointing to a separate object that
Speaker 2: has one, two, three, four, five, six, seventy nine ten
Speaker 2: on it, and then it also has like plus and
Speaker 2: minus on it, So this person can point to plus
Speaker 2: two and that would represent the draw to card that
Speaker 2: you might be familiar with in an UNO deck. As
Speaker 2: you're watching this tape, specifically, in the trailer, I haven't
Speaker 2: seen the whole thing. It appears to show the test
Speaker 2: subject looking directly at the camera as the next UNOCRD
Speaker 2: is drawn, And in my mind, because of the way
Speaker 2: that test is set up, you cannot rule out the
Speaker 2: possibility that the test subject can see a reflection in
Speaker 2: the lens or in a part of the camera body,
Speaker 2: or in you know, something that is slightly reflective there
Speaker 2: the card that is behind him, and you would have
Speaker 2: to rule that kind of thing out. If you're going
Speaker 2: to redo that test over and over and over again,
Speaker 2: you'd have to change the variables enough and test it
Speaker 2: and test it and test it to really show that
Speaker 2: that person has the abilities that they're purporting, right, And
Speaker 2: again I don't I haven't listened to the entire show.
Speaker 2: I haven't watched this whole thing. But you would have
Speaker 2: to repeat these tests enough to at least convince me
Speaker 2: or you know any scientific body that that single individual
Speaker 2: shows those capabilities.
Speaker 3: That single individual, Yeah, because they're not they're not to be.
Speaker 3: Or again, there's no argument that this is something for
Speaker 3: everyone who is nonverbal on the autism spectrum.
Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all. Again, these are self reported
Speaker 2: cases where the caregiver reaches out right and says, hey,
Speaker 2: I've found this to be true. You also can't discount
Speaker 2: those individual reactions from a caregiver or findings of a caregiver.
Speaker 2: So in my mind, it is just a fascinating subject,
Speaker 2: fascinating concept for a podcast and a show, and I
Speaker 2: can't wait to dig into a deeper So thank you,
Speaker 2: plead for reaching out to us and sending us this.
Speaker 2: I would say, I reached out to my ex wife,
Speaker 2: who has a lot of experience in this field with
Speaker 2: children on the autism spectrum at the Marcus Institute here
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, and she was fascinated by it. And hopefully
Speaker 2: we're going to have a further discussion about it, because
Speaker 2: it is one of those things that when you work
Speaker 2: with especially a child who is nonverbal, the incredible communication
Speaker 2: that occurs that is not through speaking, and that can
Speaker 2: be developed and honed. It's it's it's mind boggling because
Speaker 2: it's just a different way of communicating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love that you're pointing that out. Matt.
Speaker 3: Three quick things here. First, Yes, we know that the majority,
Speaker 3: especially when you're in person, the majority of human communication
Speaker 3: is in fact nonverbal. It's something like sixty percent mix. Secondly,
Speaker 3: we do know to be absolutely clear that in certain
Speaker 3: cases there are people who are diagnosed on the autism
Speaker 3: spectrum who do exhibit abilities that the majority of humanity
Speaker 3: would consider extraordinary or superhuman. I'm thinking of, for example,
Speaker 3: just for an example of an ability, uh, Stephen Wiltshire,
Speaker 3: who is one of this phenomenal painter with an artist
Speaker 3: with edetic memory. He's the guy you probably read about.
Speaker 3: We discussed him in real life Superpower series, who can
Speaker 3: fly in a helicopter over a city and then over
Speaker 3: a period of days he can reproduce a massive, accurate
Speaker 3: portrait really of an entire city. And he's done this
Speaker 3: around the world.
Speaker 4: It is just like sort of a kin to photographic
Speaker 4: memory type situations, or are people that can, like, you know,
Speaker 4: read a book once and then tell you exactly what
Speaker 4: page and passage you know, in paragraph a particular phrase
Speaker 4: appears on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, photographic memory is like Vinn diagram with a detic memory.
Speaker 3: I was talking about this in an email with Big Chucks.
Speaker 3: I think photog I don't want to get to too
Speaker 3: far away from the subject, but it's next one question.
Speaker 3: Photographic memory is the way it's depicted often in fiction
Speaker 3: and film. Science is still really the science is still
Speaker 3: really hotly contested over whether or not that actually exists.
Speaker 3: And then edetic memory largely exists in children under twelve,
Speaker 3: in about two to fifteen percent of children under twelve.
Speaker 3: And what we're talking about here in this exploration is
Speaker 3: really the mystery of communication and the fact that often
Speaker 3: there is a certain dogmatic approach to science in Ivory
Speaker 3: Towers that is simply true. There's this hierarchy of questions
Speaker 3: that seem to be allowed or disallowed, and so sometimes
Speaker 3: if you stray too far from what is considered quote
Speaker 3: unquote legitimate scientific inquiry, then people may be dismissed out
Speaker 3: of hand. This is something our associate Russell Tard dealt
Speaker 3: with when he was looking into his research. Now to
Speaker 3: exercise humanity here too. I think this is one of
Speaker 3: the key things. We can't automatically be dismissive. And I'm
Speaker 3: not hoping I don't come off dismissive when you asked
Speaker 3: that first question, Matt. The reason that I and other
Speaker 3: people argue this could be potentially dangerous to people children
Speaker 3: on parts of the autism spectrum is because the argument
Speaker 3: has never been that this is all kids, right. The
Speaker 3: argument has been some kids, as you said, Matt self reported.
Speaker 3: So if there is, for instance, a caregiver who is
Speaker 3: trying to force these kind of techniques or things on
Speaker 3: the kid, then it could be quite distressing, even with
Speaker 3: the best of intentions. So it's something we need to
Speaker 3: be very careful about. And again, you know, I hope
Speaker 3: I don't sound like militant on this. I'm sort of
Speaker 3: holding this up and feeling all sides of it. Does
Speaker 3: that make sense? Oh, yeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 4: I think you're doing a fine drub well.
Speaker 2: I think the desire may also rise out of hope
Speaker 2: and desperation, right, hope that you will one day be
Speaker 2: able to communicate with your child the way you see
Speaker 2: other parents communicating with their children. You hope for that
Speaker 2: so and you desire that so deeply that the possibility
Speaker 2: that you could potentially communicate with them in this other
Speaker 2: way drives you so strong that you may allow yourself
Speaker 2: to see or believe or feel things that may not
Speaker 2: be fully true simply because you need it. You want
Speaker 2: it so badly. And again, that is not to talk
Speaker 2: down at any parent right of a child in the
Speaker 2: spector or anything like that. It's just that is just
Speaker 2: human nature to desire that. I think, Yeah, guys, have
Speaker 2: you ever had the hill dream?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe I got a couple of recurring ones.
Speaker 3: Tell me about it.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I've had it either, but
Speaker 2: I've certainly had a recurring dream on a hill where
Speaker 2: flight is possible and there are a bunch of other
Speaker 2: human beings flying around on this hill. There's some other
Speaker 2: specifics to it. I want to learn more about it,
Speaker 2: but it's a recurring thing. I would say, this one
Speaker 2: feels like, oh, how would I put it? Almost like
Speaker 2: a bunch of students of some teacher hanging out on
Speaker 2: a hill, flying around to like tree tops and stuff
Speaker 2: and being kids kind of, it's very weird, is very strange.
Speaker 3: And surely when we look at these things, because dreams
Speaker 3: also memory of dreams changes over time, just like memory
Speaker 3: of any other event, it's best to write them down honestly,
Speaker 3: no matter what.
Speaker 4: Because they just dissipate. Yeah, like tears in the rain.
Speaker 4: Dream motifs are interesting or I guess themes, you know,
Speaker 4: what's the word, kind of flavors that are universal. I
Speaker 4: have this one all the time. Different kind of twists
Speaker 4: on it, but it usually involves like having the opportunity
Speaker 4: of a lifetime and being completely unprepared for it. Like
Speaker 4: I've joined my favorite band, I'm in radio Head, but
Speaker 4: I don't know how to play any of their songs,
Speaker 4: and I'm on stage at like Carnegie Hall or you know,
Speaker 4: the Hollywood b or something.
Speaker 3: What I love about this is everybody does have something
Speaker 3: like dreaming, unless you have some specific and serious conditions.
Speaker 3: The difference is usually when people tell you that they
Speaker 3: don't dream, they mean they don't remember what their brain
Speaker 3: is doing in that defragging process. And Matt to your point,
Speaker 3: I think this is tremendously illustrative of how how people
Speaker 3: specifically approach what they consider real or what they consider bunk,
Speaker 3: because there are a lot of people who might have
Speaker 3: heard telepathy tapes or a conversation now where we're striving
Speaker 3: to be objective and fair, and they might have said
Speaker 3: they think that's malarkey. But then they might believe that
Speaker 3: they have a light ability toward precognition, right, or that
Speaker 3: they are meeting outside entities in their dreams. And I
Speaker 3: say this as a I who for many many decades
Speaker 3: has had recurring conversations with a talking blue tiger that
Speaker 3: doesn't and they're lucid dreams, and it doesn't give us
Speaker 3: about what's going on. Sorry, beat me there. It doesn't
Speaker 3: givish about what's going on in my life. It wants
Speaker 3: to talk about, uh, very specific forms of philosophy. It's
Speaker 3: like Alice in Wonderland and the caterpillar kind of and
Speaker 3: I don't know why that happens, and I don't know
Speaker 3: why it keeps happening, but yeah, so everybody kind of
Speaker 3: picks and chooses, and that comes from to bring it
Speaker 3: all back around. That seems to come from, as you
Speaker 3: so beautifully put, this deep desire to communicate, you know,
Speaker 3: and it reminds me we should do an episode. We
Speaker 3: should do an actual episode on dream experiments. There's so
Speaker 3: much there.
Speaker 2: My god, Yes, I've got this one where there's this
Speaker 2: talking raccoon with a bunch of weapons and he sounds
Speaker 2: just like Bradley Cooper Rock. You're right, sorry, going back
Speaker 2: to that. Well all right, well, hey, thank you so much. Please,
Speaker 2: thank you, and y'all tell us what you think about
Speaker 2: the telepathy tapes, this concept of ESP. Who you know,
Speaker 2: what could it mean? Are humans just not ready for
Speaker 2: that kind of extraordinary thing? Do we just are? There
Speaker 2: too many movies about it. It just feels like fantasy
Speaker 2: or not real life. What how would we convince everyone
Speaker 2: that ESP is real if there's scientific backing to it?
Speaker 4: Is that a queen reference you made there, Matt.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, he said, his real life.
Speaker 4: As it is fantasy something along those lines. Mama Mia,
Speaker 4: I say very important questions.
Speaker 2: I don't know the rest of it.
Speaker 3: There you go, your eyes anywhere the wind blows.
Speaker 2: Join us on the hill. We'll be right back, and.
Speaker 3: We have turn folks of full disclosure to thirds of
Speaker 3: us are on the road, and the road holds its price.
Speaker 3: So we are going to get into a kind of
Speaker 3: loose third act of our listener mail segment. We're going
Speaker 3: to start with a We're going to start with a
Speaker 3: great reaction to our two part series or something we
Speaker 3: mentioned our two part series two episodes on the Darien Gap.
Speaker 3: Please check that out if you haven't heard of it before.
Speaker 3: In the meantime, we present to you a story from
Speaker 3: Della which I don't know about. You guys gave me
Speaker 3: no small amount of travel fomo, I want to hear it.
Speaker 3: Here it goes hi, guys, says Della. We just got
Speaker 3: back from a cruise to Antarctica. While on a tour
Speaker 3: in Ushaia in Tierra del Fuego, waiting for the cruise
Speaker 3: to board, the guide mentioned that this is the south
Speaker 3: end of a road that can be traveled all the
Speaker 3: way to oh, forgive my pronunciation, Utzskaigvik, on the Arctic
Speaker 3: Ocean coast of Alaska. Della's talking about the Pan American Highway. Here.
Speaker 3: The guide said that the only break in the road
Speaker 3: is the Darien Pass and how dangerous it is to
Speaker 3: travel there. So I was very excited to hear your
Speaker 3: new episodes on the subject. You guys, remember how we
Speaker 3: talked about that wild plan in part one of our
Speaker 3: Darien Gap episodes or chapter one, where even the New
Speaker 3: York Times co signed this wacky idea to just bomb
Speaker 3: the hell out of Panama.
Speaker 4: It's fine, who could go wrong?
Speaker 2: And Panama said, okay.
Speaker 3: No, Panama said, you guys, you already have a canal.
Speaker 3: And then we shared a specific article from New York
Speaker 3: Times at the time that said, this will be fine.
Speaker 3: We'll just put you know, thirty something nuclear bombs to
Speaker 3: obliterate the Darien Gap. We'll build a canal, we'll make
Speaker 3: a bridge over it. There are people who live there,
Speaker 3: but you know they don't vote, they don't subscribe to
Speaker 3: the Times.
Speaker 2: Dude, did you guys see the news with Panama happening
Speaker 2: right now?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, the Rubio stuff, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Rubio stuff, but the canceling the Hong Kong
Speaker 2: contract and allowing the US to travel through there free.
Speaker 2: And the response from Panama basically saying, yeah, we're ready
Speaker 2: for war and their nuclear option would and they said
Speaker 2: this former president of Panama said, well, we would just
Speaker 2: open the gap. We'd open the Darien Gap and let
Speaker 2: everybody in. That would be our final chess piece move.
Speaker 3: We call that Grinsonship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, tea, guys, I just wanted to chime in really
Speaker 4: quickly because I have to pop a little bit early
Speaker 4: from today's episode to make a flight. But a friend
Speaker 4: of mine, old friend, having heard our Darien Gap episode
Speaker 4: and hipped me to a documentary that a friend of
Speaker 4: his did for a Singapore news agency that follows a
Speaker 4: handful of Chinese families from Ecuador to the US through
Speaker 4: the Darien Gap and it has a really good kind
Speaker 4: of overview of the logistics of traveling that route. And
Speaker 4: it is called Walk the Line, a CNA insider documentary,
Speaker 4: and it's it's very well done and I highly recommend
Speaker 4: checking it out.
Speaker 3: Awesome. Thank you for the recommendation. And be safe out
Speaker 3: there man. Well thanks fellas. I'll see you guys soon. Bye.
Speaker 3: Help me hangout all the time by ulture too, and
Speaker 3: we'll also be hanging out. February nineteenth, Get the to Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: Check out stuff they don't want you to know. Presents
Speaker 3: a conspiracy of sound. It's just for you. The show
Speaker 3: starts at seven point thirty. If you show up at
Speaker 3: six thirty, you can be a part of the show.
Speaker 3: At the legendary National Sawdust in Williamsburg.
Speaker 2: That's that's less than a week. Get there, Get them
Speaker 2: tickets now.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we've got to make sure our whole teams
Speaker 3: tickets as well. Don't worry, we're on it, and we're
Speaker 3: we promise we're not going to deploy a nuclear device.
Speaker 3: We ninety nine percent promise we are not going to
Speaker 3: deploy a nuclear device.
Speaker 2: Well, now there's definitely going to be undercover folks there
Speaker 2: checking us out and tracking our phones.
Speaker 3: Benh jeez, Matt, I've got some offline conversations. So let's
Speaker 3: go back. Let's go back to this, to this note
Speaker 3: from Della. So Della says there's a lot more to
Speaker 3: the story of nuking the jungle, the Darien Gap to
Speaker 3: build a road, and there is an Alaska connection, and Della,
Speaker 3: you all live in Alaska. You continue. Back in the
Speaker 3: nineteen fifties, there was a plan to build a new
Speaker 3: canal through Panama by detonating nukes to test whether the
Speaker 3: theory would work. Edward Heller proposed Project Chariot, a plan
Speaker 3: to detonate six nukes off the Alaska coast at Cape
Speaker 3: Thompson to create a new harbor. So we're deployed, Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're placing nukes just so, almost like eracing a land
Speaker 3: tile in a strategy game, so that we can make
Speaker 3: a harbor, we can carve out a big enough piece
Speaker 3: of land for boats to pass through.
Speaker 2: Well, I gotta say it's a much better use of
Speaker 2: them than you know, obliterating cities that have people in them.
Speaker 2: But still not great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like if you had to if you woke up
Speaker 3: one day and someone said, hey, good news, bad news,
Speaker 3: we've got too many nukes. You got to get rid
Speaker 3: of six of them today, that's the bad news. Good
Speaker 3: news is you can choose between a coast on Alaska
Speaker 3: or you know, a major metropolitan area of your choice.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, let's go with the land tile.
Speaker 3: Let's go with the land tile. And as Della says,
Speaker 3: what could go wrong? Oh yeah, it's delicate tundra and
Speaker 3: temporary home to a multitude of migratory birds and caribou herds,
Speaker 3: not to mention the folks who live in the village nearby.
Speaker 3: But who could really be hurt here? I need a
Speaker 3: sarcasm fought, by the way, We'll do that again for you, Della.
Speaker 3: But who could really be hurt here?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: Fortunately, you continue a group of pesky biologists from the
Speaker 3: University of Alaska Fairbanks and the natives who lived in
Speaker 3: the nearby village of Point Hope put up a brave
Speaker 3: and lively opposition to the plan, and it was eventually abandoned.
Speaker 3: Several scientists lost their federal grants and their jobs due
Speaker 3: to their unwillingness to sign off on a project that
Speaker 3: their research showed would cause a great deal of harm
Speaker 3: to the ecology and people in the area. I highly
Speaker 3: recommend the book The Firecracker Boys by Dan O'Neill, which
Speaker 3: tells their story to end. Says Della, I couldn't get
Speaker 3: a picture of the ice dome that surrounds the flat
Speaker 3: earth bummer out in Antarctica, but here is a photo
Speaker 3: of a very cute baby elephant seal and a picture
Speaker 3: of my dogs, just because they are Nico aka the
Speaker 3: dragon aka a hole as and why are you such
Speaker 3: an and Auto aka goofball aka what do you have
Speaker 3: in your mouth? Anyway, thanks and keep up the good work.
Speaker 3: I love the open minded way you approach topics and
Speaker 3: your willingness to listen to other points of view. You
Speaker 3: can use this on air. I suck it clever nicknames,
Speaker 3: looking forward to the next episode. I want to go
Speaker 3: to Antarctica so bad, Matt, Yeah, it's so bad.
Speaker 2: Well, there's gonna be an ice wall until I don't
Speaker 2: see it with my eyes. And that's not how I
Speaker 2: don't know, yes, but I share that desire.
Speaker 3: That's how we should pitch it to our right. We
Speaker 3: should just say, guys, thanks for making the time for
Speaker 3: this meeting. Really important stuff we need to sort out.
Speaker 2: Have you ever not seen the ice walls? Me? Neither?
Speaker 3: And this got this gut is thinking too about nuclear
Speaker 3: explosions in engineering. There have been a lot of very
Speaker 3: strange drawing board propositions to use nuclear explosions for great
Speaker 3: feats of engineering, you know what I mean, to basically
Speaker 3: build a better dynamite. And the issue people are get,
Speaker 3: the reason that's not happening all the time now is because,
Speaker 3: thank goodness, people learned about radiation at some point and contaminations.
Speaker 3: Now a lot of the engineering related to nuclear devices
Speaker 3: nuclear technology is, thankfully, how do we how do we
Speaker 3: build less dangerous nuclear structures and devices? And then you know,
Speaker 3: how do we build like fusion, right, sustainable fusion things
Speaker 3: like that, And then you know, the super fascinating one,
Speaker 3: how do we warn people or warn some other civilization
Speaker 3: millennia hence about where all the nuclear waste is buried?
Speaker 2: Right with a skull and crossbones emoji?
Speaker 3: Mm hm. And what if the creatures that find it
Speaker 3: don't have skulls? Like, how do we teach them?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 3: What if it's too late? That's where you get this star.
Speaker 3: There's a real fascinating stuff you should know episode on
Speaker 3: this from back in earlier evenings and we talked about
Speaker 3: it in the past. It goes into these really innovative
Speaker 3: ideas about genetically engineering plants that that emit a bioluminescent
Speaker 3: glow when exposed to radiation, right, or building stone megaliths
Speaker 3: that somehow convey the danger of the area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember reading about all that stuff mega liths
Speaker 2: and hieroglyphs basically mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And who knows by that point people may have or
Speaker 3: the descendants of people may have some sort of extraordinary ability.
Speaker 3: This is a lot to think on. This is probably
Speaker 3: going to be I think a future episode idea kind
Speaker 3: of a Venn diagram of stuff they don't want you
Speaker 3: to know in Ridiculous history, Matt, if I could pitch
Speaker 3: it to you, the top X craziest things people tried
Speaker 3: to do with nukes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a no brainer.
Speaker 3: We're in. We're in. Thank you so much the Della.
Speaker 3: As we said, we're going to keep this loose. There
Speaker 3: are two letters from home for us. We discussed this
Speaker 3: last week. We didn't we didn't quite get to it.
Speaker 3: But we're still you know, we're still cracking away on
Speaker 3: following up with everybody who's taking the time to write
Speaker 3: or to call. Here is a correspondence we had with
Speaker 3: our pal, Mike, the Exotic Landscaper. Hey, just listen to
Speaker 3: your strange news program on the California wildfires. As a
Speaker 3: Federal wildland fire fireman in South California, I appreciate you
Speaker 3: guys shedding some light on the situation. I was not
Speaker 3: sent to any of the fires in LA, but I
Speaker 3: was on the line for the fire here in the
Speaker 3: San Bernardino National Forest. If you have any questions about
Speaker 3: the federal side, I would be more than happy to
Speaker 3: answer them. Also, as far as the California Inmate cruise
Speaker 3: are concerned, those dudes and ladies are the real deal.
Speaker 3: Good to hear Mike. I've worked with several of them,
Speaker 3: and they for the most part are excited to get
Speaker 3: the training and experience because they can be picked up
Speaker 3: by the Forest Service upon their release. Those dudes are
Speaker 3: like Rocky and Rocky one, and a lot of the
Speaker 3: California fire cats I've worked with are like Rocky in
Speaker 3: the beginning of Rocky. Anyway, thanks again for the show,
Speaker 3: and so we go on and we ask Mike a
Speaker 3: couple of questions. You know, we say thank you for
Speaker 3: cutting past the unfortunate noise and headlines inmate firefighters. We
Speaker 3: also point out, whenever we have these conversations, especially in
Speaker 3: the American justice system, being locked up does not automatically
Speaker 3: make you a bad person. Matt, I know is very
Speaker 3: important to you and me both to point out that
Speaker 3: these are human beings with communities. Logically they have a
Speaker 3: moral obligation to protect the people and the places they love.
Speaker 3: And then we ask for the following question, what are
Speaker 3: the primary things that you guys there on the line
Speaker 3: need people to know about the fires and the larger contexts?
Speaker 3: And Mike says, first and foremost, the federal engines are green.
Speaker 3: Take the me green vehicles right, Nope, And Mike also
Speaker 3: says he says a little aggravation here, nobody knows the
Speaker 3: difference between California fire local departments and the Forest Service
Speaker 3: US federal cats only work the fires on federal land. Also,
Speaker 3: us on the federal side are not technically firefighters, which
Speaker 3: is so weird, right because they are fighting fires, Yeah,
Speaker 3: but technically not firefighters.
Speaker 2: Well, what else are they doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly, that's a question we have to follow
Speaker 3: up with you on, Mike. Mike says, our job title
Speaker 3: is forestry technician. That way, we don't get some of
Speaker 3: the benefits firefighters get, so maybe it's a budgetary move. Also,
Speaker 3: we stand to lose about half hour pay because Congress
Speaker 3: won't pass a pay protection Act. Plus the hiring freeze
Speaker 3: has affected our numbers when we're already low on personnel.
Speaker 3: And Mike has included some other stuff here. One of
Speaker 3: our favorite facts we learned was since we aren't technically firefighters,
Speaker 3: there's a few of us that refer to our ourselves
Speaker 3: as exotic landscapers. That lotiful.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of the techniques in fighting a fire
Speaker 2: is altering the land and you know, the foliage, the trees,
Speaker 2: the groundcover and all that stuff like that's in the
Speaker 2: pathway of the fire, right, Yeah, I can totally see
Speaker 2: how landscaping is one of the primary things that they do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't that fascinating. We often forget that skill sets
Speaker 3: the average person on the outside might not see as related.
Speaker 3: These skill sets often coalesce, you know. So of course,
Speaker 3: being really well versed in forestry management is going to
Speaker 3: make you far more prepared than the average person to
Speaker 3: tackle a wildfire. And we are happy to report in
Speaker 3: related California fire updates that our good friend and collie,
Speaker 3: the one and only mister Miles Gray, is back on
Speaker 3: Daily'sygeist and do check him out. It's his return is
Speaker 3: an episode not to be missed for everybody who is
Speaker 3: whether an exotic landscaper, a firefighter, however you were involved.
Speaker 3: Please stay safe out there and know that we have
Speaker 3: your back. We're gonna move on here. We said we
Speaker 3: would want to end on an up note. Matt, I'm
Speaker 3: sure you saw this too. We get a great funny letter,
Speaker 3: actually an invitation from our pal Ward. Did you see
Speaker 3: this one?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Tell me? Oh? Here we go okay, so Ward says, hey, guys,
Speaker 3: I love the podcast and listen to it a lot.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Ward, thanks for helping us keep the lights
Speaker 3: on Ward says, I'm in Greenville, South Carolina. I own
Speaker 3: a store called the Mushroom Spot. This is a nano
Speaker 3: farm and retail store from my shrooms parentheses the legal ones.
Speaker 3: I know how you have commented on fungi and mushrooms
Speaker 3: a lot or fun guy, whatever your preference. We have
Speaker 3: all kinds of cool speakers and workshops too. Fun guy,
Speaker 3: Fungi are amazing and essential. Anyhow, here's the invitation. I
Speaker 3: was contacting you to make sure you knew about this
Speaker 3: year's Georgia Bigfoot Conference happening March twenty first to twenty
Speaker 3: second in Demorest, Georgia. I had not heard of this,
Speaker 3: but Matt is where you mentioned a bigfoot conference recently.
Speaker 2: Well, there's the big alien one that contact in the desert,
Speaker 2: one that we got invited to last year where we
Speaker 2: couldn't make it. This is brand new and checking it
Speaker 2: out right now, let's see how far away it is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how far?
Speaker 2: Let's see putting it in. Looks like it's about an
Speaker 2: hour away from me.
Speaker 3: It's doable, okay, So that's okay. Well, we won't turn
Speaker 3: this into our logistics conversation, but.
Speaker 2: But that's doable. That is what I'm saying, yeah, it's doable.
Speaker 3: It's doable. We always check this the first time we
Speaker 3: get invited to something that feels local, because depending on like,
Speaker 3: Georgia is a weirdly shaped state, so you know, something
Speaker 3: in Savannah is much more difficult for us to get
Speaker 3: to than something an hour away.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope I'm not over explaining Georgia because we
Speaker 3: have a lot of listeners in Georgia already.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course, dude, Wait, we're gonna have to
Speaker 2: there's a restaurant over there. Yeah, it's an oyster bar.
Speaker 2: Oh there's a Cuban cafe. Oh, they've good food.
Speaker 3: We're in you know what. I'm sure we could. I'm
Speaker 3: sure we could talk. Nolan did this one because I
Speaker 3: think I think you had a little fomo about move on.
Speaker 2: Why don't we uh on some wood? Huh would knock
Speaker 2: anyone anyways? Bueller?
Speaker 3: All right, great, I've got to be quiet. It's like
Speaker 3: four am over here. Uh okay, so Ward continues. I
Speaker 3: am not a conspiracy theorist, nor do I give much
Speaker 3: credence to a physical Bigfoot, but who knows. I like
Speaker 3: the idea of an interdimensional cryptid. We do too, that
Speaker 3: might happen with aliens too, who knows, but it is
Speaker 3: fun to think about and a great exercise for the mind.
Speaker 3: The Mushroom Spot will be a vendor at this year's
Speaker 3: Bigfoot conference. Congratulations, Ward, I've never been before, though my
Speaker 3: brother has. He's gonna sell his hot sauce there, Matt
Speaker 3: this year. If you come to the festival, please stop
Speaker 3: buy my table. I'd love to meet you all. Please
Speaker 3: keep up the good work as long as they whomever
Speaker 3: they are, permit you and even after and this is
Speaker 3: my favorite part. Mush love Ward.
Speaker 2: Oh oh no?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 3: Did did we get a did we get a drum
Speaker 3: riff for that one? Andrew? Also, Andrew, do you want
Speaker 3: to go to this thing with us? Yes?
Speaker 4: I would like to go. I want to meet big Foot.
Speaker 3: Yes. Congratulations everybody tuning in. Uh that is the first
Speaker 3: on air reaction from our producer, try Force. We did it, Matt,
Speaker 3: We got him. This is our show for the evening.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, friends and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realist
Speaker 3: for spending some of your time with us. We also
Speaker 3: want to think, of course, Colby, Jack Cheese, pleab Ward,
Speaker 3: Mike Della, Miles and everybody who has reached out to
Speaker 3: us on the internets, who has given us a summons
Speaker 3: on a telephonic device, or who has stared into the
Speaker 3: void and written us a letter. Just light ward, Oh
Speaker 3: my god, mush love. All right, you can find us
Speaker 3: on the internet. Should you sip the social meds Instagram,
Speaker 3: conspiracy stuff, show Twitter, nay x, that would be conspiracy stuff.
Speaker 3: You can also find us where we are on YouTube.
Speaker 3: You can see all those old videos from our war
Speaker 3: stories that we mentioned as YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff.
Speaker 3: But let's say that you, for one reason or another,
Speaker 3: have decided to pull back a little bit from social media.
Speaker 3: Let's say you just heard our episode on social media's
Speaker 3: damaging effects on attention span and you're more like a
Speaker 3: hear me out. Let me. Let me just call you
Speaker 3: kind of person, Matt. Riddle me this. What do people
Speaker 3: do in that situation?
Speaker 2: Wow, you pick up your phone. You dial one eight
Speaker 2: three three st d w y t K. It is
Speaker 2: our voice MAI system. You've got three minutes, give yourself
Speaker 2: a cool nickname and say whatever you'd like. Just do
Speaker 2: in the message. Let us know if we can use
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you got
Speaker 2: more to say then can fit in that voicemail. Why
Speaker 2: not instead to send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
Speaker 3: rights back. No, wait, you might be saying, really, really though,
Speaker 3: does it happen? Well, there's one way to find out.
Speaker 3: Send us the link, send us the photos, send us
Speaker 3: the story. Most importantly, send us ideas for episodes in
Speaker 3: the future. You are the most important part of this show,
Speaker 3: and we'd love for you to join us. One step
Speaker 3: away from the light. Out here in the dark, we
Speaker 3: are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
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