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Speaker 3: What's going on?
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Speaker 7: Head over to e y L University dot com. That's EYL.
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Speaker 5: See you there, all right, guys, Welcome back UYL. This
Speaker 5: is the episode that we've been waiting for long time.
Speaker 5: If you follow our journey, obviously you know we're a
Speaker 5: business platform and we talked to people of the highest
Speaker 5: level when it comes to entrepreneurship and investing.
Speaker 6: But at our core we're sports enthusiasts.
Speaker 5: Yes, athletes die hard sports and yeah, some would say experts,
Speaker 5: especially you.
Speaker 6: You know, all kinds of.
Speaker 3: Weak do do, Like who was.
Speaker 6: The sixth man on the.
Speaker 5: Knicks in nineteen eighty seven when they in the first
Speaker 5: round of the playoffs, like it's just a bunch of
Speaker 5: useless You.
Speaker 4: Probably start of the person just now listen, I might
Speaker 4: have it was Kenny Walker.
Speaker 3: When I think about when I think, first of all,
Speaker 3: most of my most of my stuff that I just
Speaker 3: look it up, man, I just look it up, make
Speaker 3: sure I read a lot, and all that stuff. But
Speaker 3: for me personally, it's certain moments it's just embedded than
Speaker 3: your brain. John Starks and NBA Finals nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 3: My heart is still broken over that.
Speaker 4: My heart's still broken over with conference finals. Hubert Davis
Speaker 4: getting a foul call for Scottie Pippen on a shot
Speaker 4: that shouldn't have been called a foul.
Speaker 3: We lost the came I remember Pipping got called for
Speaker 3: the foul. Hubert Davis benefited from there. Went to the line.
Speaker 3: Game five, they win, that Knicks win Game six. H
Speaker 3: Knicks lose games sorry, and then we come back and
Speaker 3: win game seven. But that was you know that Hugh
Speaker 3: Hollins called and it was ridiculous. Yeah it was, But
Speaker 3: I was happy that the Knicks one fet me, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. But but I mean, that was
Speaker 3: the closest to but see you thinking about that. To me,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about the closest the Knicks been or the title.
Speaker 3: That was the closest they've been at Game seven against.
Speaker 8: You, that's when he threw up two for eighteen, two
Speaker 8: for eighteen overall, one for eleven from three point range,
Speaker 8: and pat Riley for some inexplicable reason, he still hasn't
Speaker 8: explained to me how you're going to acquire Rolando Blackman
Speaker 8: in the middle of the season and don't put him
Speaker 8: there when the only reason you went out to acquire
Speaker 8: him shooting was because you needed to shoot it in
Speaker 8: case John Starks got cold.
Speaker 3: He was streaking.
Speaker 6: You ride with the horse that you came in with.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 3: But the point is you made the move for the
Speaker 3: sole express purpose of knowing you couldn't rely on John
Speaker 3: Starks to be consistent. One game he'd blow, he'd he'd
Speaker 3: do great, like he did in Game six, and then
Speaker 3: the next game he he might not show up. And
Speaker 3: that's why you got a reliable marksman like Rolando Blackman.
Speaker 3: So how you don't use him in the finals championship
Speaker 3: on the line it some scars are and I can't,
Speaker 3: I can't. I can't shape that one I'll never shake
Speaker 3: that one.
Speaker 6: No, that's just the introlaz. So Stephen A.
Speaker 5: Smith needs no introduction, a legend in the sports broadcasting world,
Speaker 5: and somebody who's actually transitioned how we watch sports.
Speaker 6: There's been a few people throughout history.
Speaker 5: That have you know, added their mark to journalism, and
Speaker 5: you're one of them.
Speaker 6: For sure.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Another think of Stewart Scott, I think of yourself. I
Speaker 5: think of a few other people Obon for sure, no doubt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, transcendent figures, guys. I looked up to God rest
Speaker 3: Stewards God's soul. I miss him every day. One of
Speaker 3: the greatest to ever do it. And Will Bond is
Speaker 3: the Godfather is still around and I'm blessed and fortunate
Speaker 3: enough to call him a colleague at ESPN and we
Speaker 3: do NBA Countdown together. No matter what you see. The
Speaker 3: great work he did it the Washington Post, the great
Speaker 3: work he's done for PTI, part of the Interruption is nothing,
Speaker 3: nothing compared to him as a person. Will Bond's one
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful people you never meet in your life. Yeah.
Speaker 4: We had the pleasure of meeting him at an event
Speaker 4: for Steph Curry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was telling them just how much.
Speaker 4: Even when I used to watch sports reporters right rest
Speaker 4: in peace, Dick Chap, when those guys are be on
Speaker 4: it was like him, Mike Lup, you just watched it
Speaker 4: because you got to put a face to the people
Speaker 4: you were reading.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean, those are the important It gave
Speaker 3: us a lot of hope, a lot of inspiration. He
Speaker 3: was on there, Brian Burrough of late Brian Borough. Let's
Speaker 3: say today, he was on there. David Dupree, he was
Speaker 3: another individual that was on there on occasion. Obviously, guys
Speaker 3: like Howard Bryant the Great now John Saunders god rest
Speaker 3: is so he's an iconic figure in the business as well.
Speaker 3: There's so many people that you know, when you think
Speaker 3: about what I'm doing today, they paved the way. David
Speaker 3: Oldris as well. It wasn't for them, I wouldn't be
Speaker 3: where I am today.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I'm good to be here.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 5: So all right, let's start out with this business show
Speaker 5: where we like sports. So I want to start with
Speaker 5: a question that's related to both sports and business, and
Speaker 5: I want to talk about college sports and what's happening
Speaker 5: with college sports. It looks like it's new pro league.
Speaker 5: Right when you look at the transfer portal, it looks
Speaker 5: like free agency, which you don't even have a car.
Speaker 5: You could just leave at any point in time, right, Right.
Speaker 5: But then I also want to talk about nil collectives.
Speaker 5: So they're saying John Caliparry is going to start with
Speaker 5: at least five million dollars, and a lot of people
Speaker 5: aren't really familiar with the NIO collective.
Speaker 6: They heard about nil deals.
Speaker 5: But it's like the NIO collective, a bunch of essentially
Speaker 5: from all like a bunch of wealthy bullsters, can just
Speaker 5: come together and just pull up a pool of money
Speaker 5: and just you know, give kids. It's like a way
Speaker 5: to pay players under the gaze of nil and not
Speaker 5: it be illegal. Right, So so much has changed over
Speaker 5: the last eighteen months, So what's your thoughts on those
Speaker 5: two things?
Speaker 3: Specifically, doesn't bother me at all. And the more headaches
Speaker 3: it causes for the NCAA, the more headaches it costs
Speaker 3: for particular programs, the better I feel. You've spent decades
Speaker 3: exploiting these athletes under the cloak of amateurism, and I
Speaker 3: would have respected it more if it were applicable to
Speaker 3: you as well. If you were a coach, if you
Speaker 3: were an administration and you didn't benefit off of the
Speaker 3: exploits of the athletes, then I'm down for it. But
Speaker 3: that's not what has happened. We've had coaches having a
Speaker 3: myriad of ways to generate revenue for themselves, clinics, coaching
Speaker 3: in summertime, salaries, they've earned speaking engagements, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: We've seen the athletes perform, and we've seen the money
Speaker 3: come back to the universities. And what do they do?
Speaker 3: They funnel it throughout the universities. The administrators get a
Speaker 3: little bit more, the chancellors, the provost presidents, they get
Speaker 3: a little bit more. Different other programs within the school
Speaker 3: that are non generate revenue generating sports they benefit from it.
Speaker 3: But the very athlete who went out there and perform
Speaker 3: and generated this level of interest is somebody that you
Speaker 3: couldn't find it within yourself to ensure that you would.
Speaker 3: You would, they would be compensated in some capacity. And
Speaker 3: the reason why it resonates with me so profoundly is
Speaker 3: because you know, I remember when Chris Webber fab five
Speaker 3: Michigan and those guys were complaining about stuff and whatever,
Speaker 3: and you have these folks on the having you know,
Speaker 3: under the mentality, you know, you're getting a scholarship. You're
Speaker 3: getting a scholarsip. You should be happy, but they were
Speaker 3: never happy. And how much of a stickler you were
Speaker 3: if folks got flights home. In Chris Webber's case, you're
Speaker 3: going into a bookstore and you're seeing a uniform, a
Speaker 3: jersey with your name on it. But if the store
Speaker 3: gave it to you for free as a violation, you know,
Speaker 3: stuff like that. You know that you're getting a vast
Speaker 3: majority of these high profile athletes from desolate environments and backgrounds,
Speaker 3: and you're telling them they can't fly home for the holidays.
Speaker 3: They can't get a car, they can't you know, you
Speaker 3: couldn't even rent them a car whatever. It might have
Speaker 3: been a violation. So those kind of things, you would
Speaker 3: think they would have had the decency to be a
Speaker 3: bit lax and to understand with all the money that
Speaker 3: these athletes were generating, that, you know what, you could
Speaker 3: turn a blond out of certain things. All right. If
Speaker 3: the guy want to go home for the holidays, let
Speaker 3: him go. If somebody wants to come if the parents
Speaker 3: want to be flown in for you know, to be
Speaker 3: with him for Christmas because he can't, you know, he
Speaker 3: can't go home and see him. All right, we could
Speaker 3: turn the bloder. He didn't do any of that. You
Speaker 3: kept you would dog it in restricting what the athletes
Speaker 3: can get. So now that's not the case. You know,
Speaker 3: you read what yourself and the headaches that come with it,
Speaker 3: the coaches that can't take it. Cal no Doubt is
Speaker 3: leaving Kentucky in part because of that. Nick Saban no
Speaker 3: doubt retired because of that.
Speaker 6: You can because of that, because of what.
Speaker 3: And il transfer a portal of the combination of it
Speaker 3: all and what kind of chaos it's caused because it's
Speaker 3: relinquished the degree of control from them. Nick Saban told
Speaker 3: me that personally could he was before he retired. He
Speaker 3: was complaining about what a headache it was you talking
Speaker 3: about agents that are treating He felt like they were
Speaker 3: damn near and bezzling you know, money, you know from
Speaker 3: universities and stuff, you know what they were doing. Those
Speaker 3: were his That was his terminology. He was completely turned
Speaker 3: off and utterly disgusted as to how things had transformed
Speaker 3: and how it changed, and I didn't blame him. I
Speaker 3: didn't think he was wrong. I was just saying the
Speaker 3: NCAA brought it on themselves because of how they were.
Speaker 3: So if these athletes find a way now to get
Speaker 3: paid more, power to them. Power to them.
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I was kind of thinking that it's
Speaker 4: like that transition of the old model, because even for
Speaker 4: cal his model was the one and done. So to
Speaker 4: see the one that done not work now, I'm like, well,
Speaker 4: what was really changed? And if you're going from a
Speaker 4: place like Kentucky with has a boatload of boosters right
Speaker 4: endless money, right, and going to an SEC school like
Speaker 4: Arkansas where there are boosters but.
Speaker 3: They got some money now, but they have chill.
Speaker 4: I'm saying that they have the football component. But Kentucky
Speaker 4: has been playing well over the past couple of years.
Speaker 4: That change is happening with the coaches, you said, Saban,
Speaker 4: I've thought about guys like Roy Williams and like these
Speaker 4: older guys who had came in with a system both
Speaker 4: in college and I mean college basketball and football, to
Speaker 4: where you see new guys coach Prime exceeding at this
Speaker 4: because he's able to adjust and get back to this
Speaker 4: even like a Dan Hurley.
Speaker 3: Now, who's just just one.
Speaker 4: It's more about the players and figured out, it's transfer portal,
Speaker 4: it's nil, it's all these things.
Speaker 3: Well, the first first thing we're gonna do as we
Speaker 3: sit down here right now, is we're gonna define what
Speaker 3: your definition and success is. Because let me tell you something.
Speaker 3: Cal ain't been successful, not in recent memory. You got
Speaker 3: four over the last four years Kentucky. Right, well, I'm
Speaker 3: success and I'm telling you they've been bounced out in
Speaker 3: the first round, fourteen seed, lost to Saint Peter's the
Speaker 3: fifteen seed, and then didn't and then went to the
Speaker 3: second round loss? Has it been to the sweet sixteen
Speaker 3: and four years didn't make the n CAA tournament. Okay,
Speaker 3: so you're at Kentucky, which is blue blood? Okay, we
Speaker 3: know what Huh can we throw away that turn? No?
Speaker 3: Who's is you common? Blue blood? Yes? What is so defined?
Speaker 3: Blue blood? Lengthy period of time in which your dominant shines,
Speaker 3: where you're relevant, you're a big time program. You know,
Speaker 3: you're constantly in the mix for national type. The level
Speaker 3: of notoriety you gain is different from what the average
Speaker 3: school gets. Like for example, Villanova's won a couple of
Speaker 3: national championships. We're going to talk about Villanova in that regard.
Speaker 3: Georgetown won back in the day. We want to talk
Speaker 3: about them in that regard. North Carolina has been relevant
Speaker 3: since the sixties seventies. Duke has been relevant since Newton
Speaker 3: Skrzyzewski arribbed in the eighties. Bill self had Kansas relevant
Speaker 3: since the eighties. Kentucky with Patino add of rope oviously
Speaker 3: before him with them Patino, Tubby Smith. Now you got
Speaker 3: Coli par in twenty twelve he wins a national title.
Speaker 3: Those are the content that when you're talking about blue Blood,
Speaker 3: you're talking about programs essentially that could recruit itself. You
Speaker 3: mentioned that program and everybody you know, you you come
Speaker 3: knocking on somebody's door, They're gonna open that door and
Speaker 3: listen to what you have to say. A lot of
Speaker 3: schools heard, No, not those programs.
Speaker 4: That's all I mean by that, right, So, like A,
Speaker 4: Ucla was fitting that even though they haven't since.
Speaker 3: Nice Cla hasn't won since ninety five, Jeds won, Ucla
Speaker 3: hasn't won since nineteen ninety five. You consider them that
Speaker 3: out west because of John Wooden, what they've done and
Speaker 3: what in Bill Walton, Kareem me abdujaball those kinds of things.
Speaker 3: The know Bannon's and all of those guys in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety five Westbrook Well Foeams. Okay, because you look at
Speaker 3: it from that standpoint, you'll look at it from there.
Speaker 3: But that's what I'm talking about. Kentucky's in that line
Speaker 3: and so, and not only that. Part of it is
Speaker 3: not worrying about the finances because your alumni base and
Speaker 3: the money that's funneled into the program is not something
Speaker 3: that you have to concern yourself with because the school
Speaker 3: will always be people to take care of those folks.
Speaker 3: That's Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, u c LA, Kansas. And
Speaker 3: now you come from a financial standpoint, even from a
Speaker 3: financial absolutely, because the absolutely.
Speaker 4: I'm asking from a financial standpoint only because we know
Speaker 4: that football brings a majority of the money.
Speaker 3: For these schools. Duke is an exception in a sense.
Speaker 3: You're talking about the school, I'm talking about the program. Okay, gotcha,
Speaker 3: got You'm talking about the program. Gotcha. UConn's program, basketball,
Speaker 3: KULD give their facilities are better than Kentucky and women's.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so let me ask you this and then I'm
Speaker 5: to ask a follow up question. Okay, Deion Sanders, Yes,
Speaker 5: shout out to coach pro that's our guy. He recently
Speaker 5: said that Travis Hunter and his son Shador, there's certain cities,
Speaker 5: certain teams that he already knows they're not going to
Speaker 5: in the draft because he doesn't want them to go
Speaker 5: to them. He's pretty much dictating their draft board. How
Speaker 5: do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: It doesn't bother me. If you can manipulate the system,
Speaker 3: and you can do it legally, what's the problem. Eli
Speaker 3: Manning was drafted by the San Diego Chargers said I
Speaker 3: don't want to be there, and the Manning family, along
Speaker 3: with their representation, ensure that he wouldn't have to go
Speaker 3: to San Diego. You know, you had a black man
Speaker 3: tries that at that particular moment in time, he wouldn't
Speaker 3: have been in the NFL.
Speaker 6: Well, all right, So this leads me to my next question.
Speaker 5: Eli Manning definitely did that, right, and somebody else did
Speaker 5: do that in basketball? Who we hardly ever speak about this.
Speaker 5: Kobe Bryant, Charlotte.
Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant didn't do that?
Speaker 6: What did he do?
Speaker 3: Can Jerry West? Did it? Thank you?
Speaker 6: Sir? Explain the situation.
Speaker 3: I'm telling them this. Jerry West was the was the
Speaker 3: general manager for the Los Angeles Lakers, universally recognized at
Speaker 3: that time as the best executive in the business. Profound
Speaker 3: respect and deference and deference to Jerry West. Jerry West.
Speaker 3: If you recall, the Charlotte Hornets drafted Kobe Bryant thirteenth overall.
Speaker 3: All right, well, clearly twelve teams missed the boat on
Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant. You're the Lakers, you going to the playoffs.
Speaker 3: You got the Eddie Jones, the Eldon Campbell's of the
Speaker 3: world and Nick van X's of the world and people
Speaker 3: like that on your squad. Okay, so guess what we
Speaker 3: could hoodwink these brothers into taking this deal. And they
Speaker 3: did that with Charlotte because they had Charlott saying, Okay,
Speaker 3: this brother's got potential, but it's probably years down the road.
Speaker 3: Why don't you take the center of Vla de Divac,
Speaker 3: who's more than a serviceable center than some supplementary parts.
Speaker 3: And then you know, by the way, we'll take Kobe
Speaker 3: Bryant in that sit not realizing Kobe was gonna be Kobe.
Speaker 3: But Jerry West was known as a guy that had
Speaker 3: that eye and at that time in terms of a
Speaker 3: talent evaluator, which is why when he elected to pass
Speaker 3: up years later as a consultant for the Clippers who
Speaker 3: had the twelfth and thirteenth pick on Michael Porter Junior,
Speaker 3: everybody was like, really, there must be something wrong with
Speaker 3: Michael Porter because there's no way on earth that that
Speaker 3: eye that Jerry West has with miss out on his talent. Well,
Speaker 3: it wasn't. His talent is that Michael Porter Junior was
Speaker 3: perceived as having back issues because he had an injury
Speaker 3: plagued history coming into the Pros. And then while sitting
Speaker 3: in the draft room, they were talking monitoring how slow
Speaker 3: he was getting up from his chair, and it looked
Speaker 3: like he was coming into the league with back problems
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and that's why they passed up
Speaker 3: on him. I'm just saying all of that to say,
Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant, even though a lot of people didn't see
Speaker 3: how great he would recognize how great he would be.
Speaker 3: Jerry West was one of those people that was privately
Speaker 3: telling folks, you have no idea, this brother the second coming.
Speaker 3: He's gonna be special, but just really.
Speaker 4: Quick and he has the vision to say, I'm training
Speaker 4: value Devis, but in the back pocket, I'm going after
Speaker 4: this guy was about to leave Orlando.
Speaker 5: Okay, but it wasn't just a regular trade though, right
Speaker 5: Kobe did he not make it known that he did
Speaker 5: not want to play like he was unhappy he wanted
Speaker 5: to play for the Lakers.
Speaker 3: No, he made it known that he wanted to go
Speaker 3: to the Lakers because Jerry West had let him know
Speaker 3: if you if you, if I can get you, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get you here. But I need you to make
Speaker 3: some noise exactly because if you make this noise that
Speaker 3: Charlotte isn't going to want to keep you because they
Speaker 3: know they're gonna have a disgruntled player and as a result,
Speaker 3: I'll be able to grab you. And I'm just saying
Speaker 3: Jerry West manipulated all of that. It was in the
Speaker 3: whole of.
Speaker 5: Fame three times for it, and rest in peace to
Speaker 5: Kobe wanted to do it. But what I'm saying is
Speaker 5: that he still played. He was vocal, he played that
Speaker 5: role of and he went to the greatest franchise in
Speaker 5: NBA history.
Speaker 3: And respectfully, you're not hearing me, I'm telling you, but listen,
Speaker 3: a white executive who was profoundly respected and recognized as
Speaker 3: a genius and an architect. Okay, manipulated the proceedings. So
Speaker 3: Kobe opening his mouth was at the behest of West.
Speaker 6: No, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is if West wasn't But if
Speaker 3: Jerry West, this is the point I'm trying to make you.
Speaker 3: If Jerry West had never said any such thing, and
Speaker 3: Jerry West ha just sent back, played his position and
Speaker 3: we'll draft whoever we could draft when again, and he
Speaker 3: never said anything, Kobe Bryant would not have been in
Speaker 3: the position to do what he did. Okay, all right,
Speaker 3: it was that Jerry West.
Speaker 5: But even behind Eli Manning's father was behind the scenes,
Speaker 5: absolutely sorty somebody behind the scene. What I'm saying is
Speaker 5: that Eli Manning, Kobe, no matter how it was done,
Speaker 5: they fled their way into a promising situation and it's
Speaker 5: not reflected on their resume. When you have somebody like
Speaker 5: Lebron James who literally was drafted to the worst team
Speaker 5: in the NBA and built that team up to an
Speaker 5: NBA contender before he left in an NBA champion when
Speaker 5: he came back, he should get extra points, right, because
Speaker 5: it's like I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: Is that why we hear it? That that's what we're doing.
Speaker 6: There's no validity, no val to that. Storry from the
Speaker 6: bottom doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 3: It's not about start from the bottom. It's the analogy
Speaker 3: you're using. First of all, you're blaming Eli coming out
Speaker 3: of college and Kobe coming out of high school rather
Speaker 3: than Archie Manning who's damn near deified in the NFL
Speaker 3: circles for assisting and manipulating those receded and Jerry West
Speaker 3: who was deified in the NBA circles for manipulating em proceding.
Speaker 3: So you're giving blame to Kobe and Eli when it's
Speaker 3: not them. That's number one. Number two, Lebron James went
Speaker 3: to the situation he want. He went to Cleveland, had
Speaker 3: the number one overall pick from Akron, Ohio, thirty minutes away.
Speaker 3: He wanted to be there. He wanted to be there.
Speaker 3: That's what That's what he had, that's what he wants. Well,
Speaker 3: of course I understand it. Well, let me tell you
Speaker 3: he didn't have it harder than Jordan. But I will
Speaker 3: tell you this. Look at Jordan's roster. When Jordan came
Speaker 3: into the NBA. Look at who the coach was, look
Speaker 3: at who the players were. Okay, the point is that
Speaker 3: that's not true. And then when you look at Lebron,
Speaker 3: you go to Cleveland. Certainly he didn't inherit much and
Speaker 3: nobody's denying that. I'm simply saying that when you look
Speaker 3: at his situation, he was where he wanted to be.
Speaker 3: Eli was where he wanted to be, Kobe was where
Speaker 3: he wanted to be, and all of those things are true.
Speaker 4: Said the Angel ended up with Philip Rivers. Man, huh,
Speaker 4: So they ended up with Philip Rivers. They had a
Speaker 4: franchise quarterback. I want to go back to that draft
Speaker 4: because we always talk about the power of relationships and
Speaker 4: how relationships can take you and open doors that money can't.
Speaker 4: And so the number one picking that draft was obviously
Speaker 4: Alan Overson cob the same draft, best draft class ever.
Speaker 4: You as a beat writer for the Philadelphia Inquiry at
Speaker 4: the time, covering him, building a relationship with him obviously
Speaker 4: has changed a lot for your career.
Speaker 3: I wonder when you look back now and.
Speaker 4: Kind of for for having foresight, we don't see reporters
Speaker 4: having the same type of relationships that I imagine that you.
Speaker 3: Would have with him.
Speaker 4: I wonder what you think the cause of it is?
Speaker 4: Or is it because the athlete of today modern day
Speaker 4: has their own platform to express themselves. Has that Has
Speaker 4: it changed the way that beat writers sports reporters can
Speaker 4: now interact and have relationship with athletes.
Speaker 3: That quickly is yes. I was the beat writer in
Speaker 3: ninety seven ninety six, I was the backup beat writer,
Speaker 3: and then the next year I took over the beat
Speaker 3: for Alan Iverson current And I say Alan Iverson because
Speaker 3: there was a seventy sixters beat and then there was
Speaker 3: the Alan Iverson beat. Because his brother always got himself
Speaker 3: in something and as a result of that, I always
Speaker 3: had to work over time covering him, you know, and
Speaker 3: it was like a nightmare and we got to run
Speaker 3: and joke. We still laugh about it to this day.
Speaker 3: Every single year I went on vacation, every incident he
Speaker 3: got into was when I was on vacation, and meaning
Speaker 3: I had to come off vacation to deal with some
Speaker 3: mess that he had gotten himself in. It just never
Speaker 3: ever failed, and I just used to be so mad
Speaker 3: at him over that. Right, But when you talk about
Speaker 3: today's player, it's the avent of social media. It's the
Speaker 3: fact that they got a voice, is the fact that
Speaker 3: they don't necessarily need the fourth state, which is the media,
Speaker 3: to disseminate any kind of message on their behalf. They
Speaker 3: feel they can do it themselves, and they never trusted
Speaker 3: the media. And as a result of for trusting the media,
Speaker 3: you were always looking for an excuse to have a
Speaker 3: different outlet. Back then, you didn't have it because social
Speaker 3: media didn't exist. No Instagram, no Facebook, no Twitter, and
Speaker 3: none of that. And so because that didn't exist, you
Speaker 3: had no choice but to rely upon media. So the
Speaker 3: next best thing was to find somebody in the media
Speaker 3: that you could remotely trust to some degree, and that's
Speaker 3: pretty much how it happened. Michael Jordan had somebody that
Speaker 3: was mard Rashad. Isaiah Thomas had people as wise as
Speaker 3: he was he knew city, the city you know, or
Speaker 3: a national voice or whatever. He always had an outlet.
Speaker 3: Charles Barkley, same situation, Shaquille or Neil Patrick, you and
Speaker 3: another's There was always somebody And in Philadelphia, I was
Speaker 3: that guy for Alan Iverson. But it was a bit
Speaker 3: different than an orthodox for me because I call it
Speaker 3: like I see it, not to say that other people
Speaker 3: did not, but they were, you know, they were a
Speaker 3: bit more cautious about it than I was. I didn't
Speaker 3: give a damn because my attitude is I'm not getting
Speaker 3: personal personal businesses. Your business. Long as you don't end
Speaker 3: up in the police bloggers or something like that where
Speaker 3: a bunch of people see you doing something, it's none
Speaker 3: of my business. But your game is my business. That's
Speaker 3: what you do in a public forum. And when you
Speaker 3: perform in a public forum, I'm not gonna tell the
Speaker 3: audience they saw something different than I saw. If what
Speaker 3: I saw is what the audience saw, If what they
Speaker 3: saw is what I saw, I'm gonna I'm gonna confirm
Speaker 3: that no matter what, because that's something you did in
Speaker 3: the public forum. Obviously, that doesn't endear you to the
Speaker 3: professional athletes sometimes, you know, they get upset, they grow
Speaker 3: to hate you in certain situations and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: And if you are a journalist, and I think that
Speaker 3: when you fast forward to today, I don't think people
Speaker 3: realize that when they see me, they honestly act like
Speaker 3: I really give a shit that they don't like me.
Speaker 3: I mean, they listen man athletes, oh yeah, athletes, coaches,
Speaker 3: the list goes on, and it's not just them, it's
Speaker 3: not just athletes. Well at times it can be. But
Speaker 3: I don't care. And the reason why I don't care
Speaker 3: is because of what I told you about not getting
Speaker 3: personal and sticking to the game. But number two, they
Speaker 3: don't know my background, my background as a journalist. You're
Speaker 3: not supposed to be in the business of making friends.
Speaker 3: You're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to call
Speaker 3: it like you see it. You're supposed to be in
Speaker 3: pursuit of the truth as best as you possibly can
Speaker 3: get to it. That's what you're supposed to do. And
Speaker 3: most importantly than all, you're not supposed to care about
Speaker 3: friends being friends, meaning you're not supposed to care about that,
Speaker 3: not your friends, not If you cultivate a friendship, you
Speaker 3: develop a friendship. Sure, but I'm not walking in trying
Speaker 3: to be your friend. I'm walking in doing a job.
Speaker 3: And over the course of doing a job, if we
Speaker 3: cultivate a relationship with one another, that's called There's plenty,
Speaker 3: and Alan Iverson or any professional athlete, coach, executive owner
Speaker 3: will tell you I don't say nor write a minimum
Speaker 3: seventy five percent of what I know I don't do that,
Speaker 3: but there's certain things that have to be said, and
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say it. Because we don't have things giving
Speaker 3: dinner together, we ain't exchanging Christmas gifts together, you don't
Speaker 3: pay my bills. Have a job to do and I'm
Speaker 3: gonna do it. And so knowing that that's my background,
Speaker 3: it shocks me to this day how folks will sit
Speaker 3: up there and and say some of the things that
Speaker 3: they say. Folks will hate, or they'll talk about how
Speaker 3: they feel about me or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 3: and they never tell y'all why they give little vague
Speaker 3: notices about you know.
Speaker 5: I think I think you have to understand too that
Speaker 5: it's people have emotions, right, So nobody wants to hear
Speaker 5: negative things about themselves right on any level. And I'll
Speaker 5: use Kyrie example, right, we interviewed his mom and we
Speaker 5: met Kyrie.
Speaker 6: Skyrie, good guy, but.
Speaker 5: I felt like the media it became a personal issue
Speaker 5: with Kyrie, especially over the vaccine and a variety of
Speaker 5: other things that I didn't understand.
Speaker 3: The media or fine the media. I won't deny that
Speaker 3: you talk about me well just I know, I mean,
Speaker 3: because I can answer for me, all.
Speaker 6: Right, So I'm right here, Okay.
Speaker 5: So for Kyrie, for instance, what what would you say
Speaker 5: for people that say that you went too hard or
Speaker 5: it turned personal for Kyrie.
Speaker 3: Earth, I will openly tell you they are not wrong.
Speaker 3: That several people told me that players coaches. Kyrie's close
Speaker 3: with a few coaches. They personally called me, personally asked
Speaker 3: me to back up. The only time that I will
Speaker 3: concede that it got personal for me, and it's been
Speaker 3: resolved and it's all good. Kyrie and I probably never
Speaker 3: speak again in life, and that's fine. But I ain't
Speaker 3: got nothing but respect for the brother because he's doing
Speaker 3: what I want it all along him to be on
Speaker 3: the court, showcasing how marvelous he is as a basketball player,
Speaker 3: instead of finding one excuse after another to miswork. Now,
Speaker 3: I understand that COVID wasn't one of those things, or
Speaker 3: I understand, but Kyrie knows how much work he's missed,
Speaker 3: and he know COVID ain't the only reason why over
Speaker 3: the years. Now, I ain't gonna give details, but I
Speaker 3: know him, okay. And so when you miss work and
Speaker 3: you still getting paid, but an audience out there doesn't
Speaker 3: get to see you put your marvelous skill sets on display.
Speaker 3: I have an attitude about that because I'm a basketball
Speaker 3: lover and I want to see that brother play. I
Speaker 3: think he's one of the greatest talents this game has
Speaker 3: ever seen, and I want to see him play. The
Speaker 3: COVID thing. Everybody wanted to ignore what I said. I said,
Speaker 3: bump COVID. Everybody got that. I understand, I get it. Okay,
Speaker 3: I took the vaccine, but I know plenty of people
Speaker 3: who didn't. I don't blame him, I understand it. My
Speaker 3: point was that was the latest excuse to miss work,
Speaker 3: because there's a bevy of other times he misworked for
Speaker 3: excuses that had nothing to do with COVID. I'm like,
Speaker 3: how many excuses you're gonna invent? I meant it then,
Speaker 3: I mean it now. If he was here in front
Speaker 3: of my face, I tell him to his face, he knows.
Speaker 3: But when it got personal, which is where it's my fault,
Speaker 3: not his, my fault, his father got involved and there
Speaker 3: was a tex exchange between me and his dad that
Speaker 3: I felt was personal and I felt crossed the line.
Speaker 3: That was when it got personal, not before then. That
Speaker 3: was when it got personal, because I'm like, hey, hey, you
Speaker 3: got your daddy involved, you understand saying and you know
Speaker 3: that you're wrong, because there's some things that went down
Speaker 3: with me and Kyrie as none of anybody business. And
Speaker 3: let's just say I looked out and to roll up
Speaker 3: on me like I'm the enemy was offensive to me.
Speaker 3: And so because that was offensive to me, I addressed
Speaker 3: it properly. I have never told and I never will.
Speaker 3: That's his business, but he knows. And so when dad
Speaker 3: got involved and Dad knew I was really offended, and
Speaker 3: so we started, it was like no holds barred. Then
Speaker 3: it's like, I'm not inventing anything. I'm not making it up.
Speaker 3: I'm just not trying to act like I'm neutral. I'm
Speaker 3: letting you know where I'm coming from, you know. In
Speaker 3: other words, at that moment, I didn't like your ass,
Speaker 3: and I was saying it unapologetically. But then, because we're
Speaker 3: gonna be real and honest and authentic, I'm at a
Speaker 3: Lakers game and Kyrie Irving rolls up on me. I
Speaker 3: got my back to I feel a slap in the back.
Speaker 3: Lakers playing playoffs and Kyrie rolls up on me. I
Speaker 3: just want to see if you're gonna have that same
Speaker 3: energy in my face and I looked right at him.
Speaker 3: I said, do I look any different? Do I sound
Speaker 3: any different? I'm right here, And then he humbled me.
Speaker 3: He said, quote, yo, dog, at this point, it ain't
Speaker 3: even about me and you. It's really about you and
Speaker 3: my father. And you got me up in this mix.
Speaker 3: And it was like a punch in the face because
Speaker 3: at that moment I was like, I didn't realize it.
Speaker 3: And at that moment, I was like, you're right. And
Speaker 3: if you notice, at Laker games, our seats on the
Speaker 3: opposite side, across from the Lakers bench, but down so
Speaker 3: it's across from the visitor's bench and down baseline. I
Speaker 3: left Kyrie that second, walked over to my seat, and
Speaker 3: I text his dad and I said, Kyrie just said
Speaker 3: this to me. He's right. If you want to meet,
Speaker 3: I will meet with you. I flew back to New York.
Speaker 3: The next week, me and his dad met up. We talked.
Speaker 3: We both fested up to what we did wrong to
Speaker 3: each other as men. He apologized. I apologized, and I
Speaker 3: apologized even more so because he ain't the journalist with
Speaker 3: the public platform. That was me. So I said I
Speaker 3: was wrong even more so than you. I apologize your
Speaker 3: son was right. You're right. It will never happen again.
Speaker 3: And me and Pops have been cool ever since. We
Speaker 3: even text each other from time to time. How you doing,
Speaker 3: how's everything going, or whatever, because that's what men do.
Speaker 3: You know, I was wrong, and I have to own
Speaker 3: up to that. You know, when I was years ago,
Speaker 3: you know, one of the things stories that I'm associated
Speaker 3: with his Glenn big Dog Robinson, and how he felt
Speaker 3: about me, and that's one of those times where it
Speaker 3: could have gotten ugly, you know, because he wanted to
Speaker 3: do some things to me, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to do some things to him, and
Speaker 3: because I thought that he had gotten the coach fired
Speaker 3: Randieers after he succeeded Larry Brown and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: We got into it in the Denver locker room, got
Speaker 3: my face blah blah blah, la ain't nobody backing up.
Speaker 3: And when that happened, the hostility that existed spanning years
Speaker 3: to the point where like we would stay each other
Speaker 3: down and then people like just walking between us because
Speaker 3: they just like this, this is unnecessary, it's ugly and
Speaker 3: all this other stuff, and it hit me there, I
Speaker 3: was wrong. Too, because my position was as a black man,
Speaker 3: to do that to that coach his first head coaching
Speaker 3: job in the NBA. You know, you five at the
Speaker 3: fifty two games. He ain't gonna get another opportunity. You
Speaker 3: wouldn't have done that to George car You wouldn't have
Speaker 3: done that the lab Brown, but you did it to him.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. But then I said, wait a minute.
Speaker 3: I'm usually pretty damn good at this. I didn't zero
Speaker 3: in on my professionalism. I let it go in my commentary.
Speaker 3: But also what really hit me his son was in
Speaker 3: Houston and they had a game. I'm trying to remember.
Speaker 3: I think it was the Warriors game against the Rockets.
Speaker 3: Playoffs all the side, and I forgive me if I
Speaker 3: don't remember the regular season playoffs. But I saw his son,
Speaker 3: and his son was hesitant to speak to me. I
Speaker 3: didn't go up to talk to him. I just walked
Speaker 3: by Glenn robson the third and I just walked up
Speaker 3: and I saw how nervous he looked, like I was
Speaker 3: going to do something wrong to him, and I said nah,
Speaker 3: And I rolled right up on him and I said,
Speaker 3: whatever happened with me and your dad, it's my fault
Speaker 3: professional journalists. I'm the one that's got this platform. I said,
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have taken it this far. I don't want
Speaker 3: you thinking for one second than anything that you do
Speaker 3: is gonna be influenced by me and your dad's relationship.
Speaker 3: I've never seen Glenn Robinson again, but I told him,
Speaker 3: if I see your dad, I will walk up to
Speaker 3: your dad and I will apologize, because that ain't right.
Speaker 3: You know, when you see a kid ain't got nothing
Speaker 3: to do with it, he walking around fidgety about what
Speaker 3: you're gonna say about him or what I'm like. Damn
Speaker 3: you know that I can't let that happen. And so
Speaker 3: those are the two I only bring up those two
Speaker 3: incidents because those are the two incidences that stand out,
Speaker 3: and those are the one the two incidences where I
Speaker 3: genuinely feel I was.
Speaker 6: Wrong and I.
Speaker 3: Was wrong. It's not often I feel wrong, but those
Speaker 3: are two incidentss where clearly I felt I should have
Speaker 3: been the bigger and the better man and I wasn't.
Speaker 4: So I mean, it says a lot about the integrity
Speaker 4: the character of the man yourself speaking of, because that's
Speaker 4: why players would trust you. I feel like you were
Speaker 4: one of the first guys I ever heard about. I
Speaker 4: got sources. I got sources, and that became a thing,
Speaker 4: and it was like everybody's talking to CVNA, like how
Speaker 4: does he get there? Before there was a wove, it
Speaker 4: was like we got a it's coming from you first.
Speaker 4: When I came the free agents or the trades, it
Speaker 4: was you. So I'm wondering from winstin stalem See to
Speaker 4: beat writer for the Philadelphia Inquiry to being on the
Speaker 4: ESPN I told you beforehand, I was there when you
Speaker 4: were ESPN Radio in New York Suthern ten fifty at noon,
Speaker 4: this is this is part of my lunch break, to
Speaker 4: being on TV, to having first take, to being the
Speaker 4: EP of the show, and now for all likelihood having
Speaker 4: the crown when it comes to sports media. Was this
Speaker 4: all part of the plan or are we finding new
Speaker 4: avenues as your career is expanding, your finding new experiences.
Speaker 3: I think it's both. It was always part of my
Speaker 3: plan to be recognized as great as being great at
Speaker 3: what I do. And they say I'm great at television.
Speaker 3: We'll go with that. I don't know whether it's true
Speaker 3: or not, but I'm gonna take it. You know, it's
Speaker 3: a blessing to be number one. It's a blessing to
Speaker 3: be at the top of the heap. I didn't see
Speaker 3: that coming, and that's because of fans like yourself and
Speaker 3: others out there that have supported me throughout the years.
Speaker 3: Who the hell would I be if I didn't have
Speaker 3: that support. So I'm humbled in regards to that. I
Speaker 3: know that my blessings come from some from from above,
Speaker 3: and I'm constantly mindful of that. But I also know
Speaker 3: why I give myself credit is my relentless pursuit for
Speaker 3: success and for excellence A and just as significant of
Speaker 3: an A. It's basically understanding how to see the forest
Speaker 3: from the trees. When I was in Philadelphia at the
Speaker 3: Philaelphin in quir recovering the seventy six Ers in two
Speaker 3: thousand and one, this was what changed the course of
Speaker 3: my career. I'm breaking stories. They got this guy Phil
Speaker 3: Jazz and the God Arrested Soul used to write for
Speaker 3: Philelphia Daily News covering the Sixers for decades, and they
Speaker 3: had these other writers and it got to a point
Speaker 3: where everything basketball wise, it was my town. If there
Speaker 3: was a story coming out of New Philadelphia in the
Speaker 3: sport of basketball. It was coming through me. I was
Speaker 3: just I was on a roll and I was that successful.
Speaker 3: And the seventy sixers get to the finals, they make
Speaker 3: that run Vince and Ai and the semifinals Toronto Philadelphia
Speaker 3: going back, dropping fifty plus on each other. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 3: It was so that series was so sensational. Toronto had
Speaker 3: beaten Philly with Vince Carter I think scoring fifty four
Speaker 3: that night, and Billy King was like, are you seeing this?
Speaker 3: This is fantastic. After loss, He's like, I ain't never
Speaker 3: seen nothing like this. I mean, these cats going at
Speaker 3: it like I mean he was. It was like it
Speaker 3: was that kind of atmosphere between Toronto and Philadelphia. It
Speaker 3: was electric. Man. And then in the finals, Philly went
Speaker 3: in the Conference finals, they went against Big Dog and
Speaker 3: and Ray Allen and Sam Counsell and those boys. Both
Speaker 3: series went seven games. Philadelphia went. And then in Game
Speaker 3: one of the NBA Finals, it's the first time I
Speaker 3: ever met Denzel Washington. I'm at the Staples Center, which
Speaker 3: is just open, and I'm walking towards the tunnel and
Speaker 3: somebody comes up and wraps their arm around me, and
Speaker 3: it's Denzel I had never met him. He's like, so
Speaker 3: tell me what the Lake's gonna do. The Lake's gonna
Speaker 3: do this. You know what I'm saying as the first
Speaker 3: time I ever met him. And I said, oh, this
Speaker 3: is done in five, y'all. God damn. He was like,
Speaker 3: anybody got no answer for Shack and Kobe on a
Speaker 3: come up? I mean, sopful a. They got no shot,
Speaker 3: I said, And I said, well, he said why not?
Speaker 3: Why not? A sweet why five? And I said the
Speaker 3: same thing that I said on a national sports report
Speaker 3: on Fox Sports. I said, AI get you on. It
Speaker 3: was my exact words, AI get you on. He drove
Speaker 3: forty eight, Game one, stepped over ty Lou, you know,
Speaker 3: did his thing, blah blah blah. Through those playoffs, me
Speaker 3: being number one, I was reduced to writing an eight
Speaker 3: hundred word article and that was it. Trying to build
Speaker 3: subscribers for the newspaper. They brought in the investigative team
Speaker 3: to features write, a team and people from other departments
Speaker 3: all pouring in writing every possible thing they could about
Speaker 3: the playoffs because subscribers was buying a newspaper and that's
Speaker 3: how they was making their money. And I was like,
Speaker 3: not that you don't know it's about money, because you
Speaker 3: get you get that everything's about money, but it's slapped
Speaker 3: me in the face. My level of production, what I
Speaker 3: was bringing to the table meant nothing to them. Nothing.
Speaker 3: All they cared about was generating those dollars through subscribers
Speaker 3: and folks buying the newspapers during the playoffs, shot through
Speaker 3: the playoff front. So it was an eye open up
Speaker 3: for me because it just refreshed my mind and reminded
Speaker 3: me that everything comes down to business. And so think
Speaker 3: the money, where's the money at, where's it coming from,
Speaker 3: what's gonna where the money's gonna get funneled from. Pay
Speaker 3: attention to that as you move forward. And that's how
Speaker 3: sports talk radio. You getting paid seventy five hundred thousand
Speaker 3: for the newspaper, you getting paid three four hundred, five
Speaker 3: hundred thousand for radio, you know, you getting paid a
Speaker 3: million for television. That's how it was back how much
Speaker 3: it was the beat writ again at that time for me,
Speaker 3: I was at about seventy five thousand. No, but it
Speaker 3: was ultimately because I started working for CNNSI and then
Speaker 3: after that Fox Sports Philadelphia wanted to keep me in
Speaker 3: toe so they came to me and they had boosted
Speaker 3: my salary up to one hundred and fifty thousand, right
Speaker 3: plus you know Fox Sports, I was getting about another
Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy five thousand, So I'm like, cool,
Speaker 3: that was good. But I'm just saying that for me.
Speaker 3: I saw that, and I said, newspaper's dying. You saw
Speaker 3: the cachet of ESPN, dot com elevator, you saw digital
Speaker 3: coming into play. You saw newspapers they were panicky because
Speaker 3: the executive was talking about there was a subscriber base
Speaker 3: was dipping and stuff. And suddenly I started That's when
Speaker 3: I went from reading the sports sections to reading the
Speaker 3: Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal in Bloomberg News,
Speaker 3: and you know, I started reading those things paying attention. Okay,
Speaker 3: the economy, they're saying this is bad right now. They're
Speaker 3: talking about inflation, they talk about this that all right,
Speaker 3: the unemployment rate is dipping because you know, when white
Speaker 3: folks catch cold, black folks catching pneumonia, so it's always
Speaker 3: worse for us. So I'm like, whatever the situation was,
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's gonna be worse for us. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: what am I gonna do? The position myself and from
Speaker 3: that point forward, I would always be forward thinking in
Speaker 3: that regard.
Speaker 5: So with that being said, we're in a new age
Speaker 5: of media now where we're seeing independent shows, even people
Speaker 5: that have, you know, strong followings that they've built from television,
Speaker 5: like a Shannon Sharp and he's going crazy with Club Shasha,
Speaker 5: and then we see Cam and May starting their own show.
Speaker 5: You started your own independent show, but you said it's
Speaker 5: not a podcast, it's a show. And we see the
Speaker 5: Ringer being sold for two hundred million, So it's so
Speaker 5: much money that's being generated.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 6: ESPN laid off I think, like how many thirty people
Speaker 6: a couple months ago.
Speaker 3: Troy from the analyst side, I mean Disney.
Speaker 5: No, just in general from that broadcasting team. They laid
Speaker 5: off a lot of people people. So how do you
Speaker 5: see the media business pivoting on the economic side and
Speaker 5: what's your plan personally?
Speaker 3: Well, podcast wise, it's already pivoted. You've got thousands upon
Speaker 3: thousands of podcasts, so there's no way to get around that.
Speaker 3: I'm proud of my man, Shannon Sharp, Club Shay Shay
Speaker 3: doing his thing, no doubt about it. The Cat Williams
Speaker 3: interview was off the chain and I think more than
Speaker 3: half of his subscribers came because of that interview alone,
Speaker 3: So major, major props to him for pulling that off
Speaker 3: and doing what he did, and he deserves a lot
Speaker 3: of credit. But Nightcap ain't nothing to sleep on either
Speaker 3: with him and o Cho Senko may and kill and
Speaker 3: give it arenas you know, so major props to them
Speaker 3: for that. But I would tell you that you know,
Speaker 3: when you see the paradigm shifting in our media business,
Speaker 3: it's because the public has stated we're not interested in
Speaker 3: linear television as much as we have. What people are
Speaker 3: confused about is that doesn't mean they're not interested in
Speaker 3: the content that linear television provides. They just want it
Speaker 3: in a different platform than linear television provides. They don't
Speaker 3: want it on a TV screen where you got to
Speaker 3: buy a TV. They want to be able to watch
Speaker 3: it on it.
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
Speaker 4: A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
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Speaker 3: Phone they want to be able to watch it on
Speaker 3: their iPad or their laptop or whatever. And not only that,
Speaker 3: if you really really think about it, it's nothing different
Speaker 3: than what society has done for ages. Youngsters dictate the direction.
Speaker 3: They may not pay the bills, but they dictate the direction.
Speaker 3: So it's like a kid that's growing up right, Well,
Speaker 3: you know what, I don't feel like doing this. I
Speaker 3: feel like doing that. I want to go to the movies,
Speaker 3: but then after that, I want to go to the
Speaker 3: amusement partner. Then out there. I want to go to
Speaker 3: Cony of You in New York, You and Brooklyn. I
Speaker 3: want to go to Coney Island. Well, hell, I want
Speaker 3: to go to six Flags. Well, damn it, not six Flags. Now,
Speaker 3: I want to go to six Flags down in Virginia. Okay.
Speaker 3: Oh by the way, now let me go to Disneyland.
Speaker 3: Oh that's the Anaheim. Oh damn it, Disney World. I'd
Speaker 3: rather go there. You see what I'm saying. History has
Speaker 3: shown us that these transitions, that trans that take place,
Speaker 3: it's dictated by our youth. Not financed by it, but
Speaker 3: dictated by it. Because if you're a parent, you're going
Speaker 3: to give the kid what they want for the most part,
Speaker 3: if you can afford to do it and they deserve it. Well,
Speaker 3: guess what. That's exactly what's happening now. The kids are
Speaker 3: telling the parents who happen to be executives at the
Speaker 3: linear networks, this is what we want. Not only that,
Speaker 3: streaming has proliferated, and so when you look at Amazon, Apple,
Speaker 3: you know, Netflix and everybody else with you know, Prime Video,
Speaker 3: all of this stuff. They've created different platforms that has
Speaker 3: forced the linear world to capitulate to the direction that
Speaker 3: it's going in sooner than it would have liked. And
Speaker 3: as a result, you're seeing a dwindling number. But it
Speaker 3: makes me laugh being at ESPN when people act like
Speaker 3: ESPN is losing this audience. No, we're not. We're just
Speaker 3: losing it on digital. I'm sorry, on linear, me losing
Speaker 3: it in digital stratos fere go. Check out ESPN YouTube's number,
Speaker 3: esben YouTube numbers. Look at them compared to everybody else.
Speaker 3: Look at their numbers. You understand they can talk about
Speaker 3: Disney Plus and stuff all they want to. Well, we're
Speaker 3: talking billions upon billions of dollars that are being generated.
Speaker 3: You saw that there was recently a shareholders meeting where
Speaker 3: it maintained Viviger remaining as the CEO of Walt Disney.
Speaker 3: What has he been talking about? We ain't losing. We
Speaker 3: ruling out Disney Plus. We've seen them drop the ESPN
Speaker 3: phone in the past. We've seen them drop other stuff
Speaker 3: in the past. How come you ain't say goodbye to
Speaker 3: Disney Plus? How come you ain't say good bye to
Speaker 3: the ESPN plus because there's money to be generated there.
Speaker 3: You just got a master. They are trying to figure
Speaker 3: out what to do with ESPN. Yes, no, no, but
Speaker 3: that's only because again, as a linear platform. As a
Speaker 3: linear platform, okay, we might pair with Warner Brothers and
Speaker 3: Fox and what have you, because we got to compete
Speaker 3: with the market cap that is Amazon and Apple, all right,
Speaker 3: and even combined they're worth about a little under four
Speaker 3: hundred ESPN, Warner Brothers, Discovery, Fox, you worth about under
Speaker 3: four hundred billion. Well, Apple, Amazon, y'all know this better
Speaker 3: than me, because y'all experts in this field. There worth
Speaker 3: nearly three trillion apiece. So that's what you're competing with.
Speaker 3: They just don't choose to specialize in the sports landscape
Speaker 3: the way that ESPN does. So what I'm saying to
Speaker 3: you is you come to me years ago. I now
Speaker 3: knew none of this. I paid attention to none of this.
Speaker 3: But now I'm looking at everything that's transpiring and how
Speaker 3: they're doing business where our audience lies. You can't tell me,
Speaker 3: for example, first Take. This is the success story of
Speaker 3: First Take in an age where the linear audience is
Speaker 3: dwindling and fading and shows are getting canceled. Our ratings
Speaker 3: are up. We're at a point now where I'm measured
Speaker 3: against me, the show is measured against it year over year.
Speaker 6: This is what all right?
Speaker 3: We up year over year for twenty consecutive months, We've
Speaker 3: been up year over year. That's bringing in over five
Speaker 3: hundred thousand viewers. Did you know that annually on ESPN
Speaker 3: digital like YouTube stuff like that. I myself, by myself,
Speaker 3: generates over two billion views a year annually by myself
Speaker 3: for ESPN, for ESPN on YouTube, ESPN YouTube stuff like that. Yes,
Speaker 3: So I'm saying their platforms over two billion by myself.
Speaker 3: And so when when I look at that, I'm like,
Speaker 3: how could in a less audience. Of course, we still
Speaker 3: have the audience. They're just watching us in different platforms
Speaker 3: and you got to know what those platforms are and
Speaker 3: how to monetize it so you know how to make
Speaker 3: your money. But the audience hasn't faded. It's just that
Speaker 3: they've said, we want to watch y'all on different platforms.
Speaker 3: We don't want to rely on the TV to do it.
Speaker 4: So this is, I mean's a couple of things to unpack.
Speaker 4: The Yes, the one thing that ESPN does have that
Speaker 4: the Apples and vasions don't. Amazon has the MLB and
Speaker 4: Apple has them, right, everybody's trying to get into live sports. Yeah,
Speaker 4: obviously ESPN has it with the NFL pretty much every league.
Speaker 4: As you know, you're watching that as a businessman. Obviously
Speaker 4: you're you're working for the company, but as a businessman,
Speaker 4: you're starting to see the club. Chase's right, like, yes,
Speaker 4: you have your own YouTube channel, right, six hundred thousand subscribers,
Speaker 4: congratulations on that, thank you.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: We saw Ryan Clark recently use that as leverage to negotiate.
Speaker 4: So as you're building the I P are you you're
Speaker 4: looking at this like this is also my leverage, right,
Speaker 4: because it's, it's it's. It comes to a point now
Speaker 4: where if you're watching ESPN like we watch McAfee, it's
Speaker 4: well documented the amount of money he's making, which is
Speaker 4: congrats to him because it's a totally different format.
Speaker 3: Fees. It's working.
Speaker 4: But you watch the landscape, right, you see everybody at Fox,
Speaker 4: you see CBS, right, you see ak Men, right, Steven
Speaker 4: a more popular than all these guys. Are you building
Speaker 4: the leverage in terms of you know what my turn
Speaker 4: is coming? Let's talk.
Speaker 3: I already have, I mean get twenty nineteen. I mean
Speaker 3: we saw it. Let me be very clear that it
Speaker 3: was always the intent. My time's come, they have been.
Speaker 3: The clock is running. No, I'm good.
Speaker 4: Let me explain that to the people who may not know.
Speaker 4: Right twenty nineteen, you have the five year deal. Everybody
Speaker 4: sows a five year deal.
Speaker 3: My deal ends in June of twenty twenty five, So
Speaker 3: next year, yes, next something. The clock is on next, next,
Speaker 3: next June. My deal ends. But talks ain't gonna happen
Speaker 3: in next June. It's gonna happen a long time before that.
Speaker 3: That's number one. Number two. I say that, and you
Speaker 3: know I love being on this platform. Talking to y'all
Speaker 3: because we talk in business. We ain't responding to idiotic
Speaker 3: trolls that are like, yo, you know this is what
Speaker 3: he wants. You don't know what I want. Correct, Okay,
Speaker 3: you don't know what I want. Let me be very clear.
Speaker 3: I'll state exactly what I want on this show right now.
Speaker 3: I want to position myself to stay the best, to
Speaker 3: be as profitable as I can possibly be, and to
Speaker 3: be not just a revenue generator, but a revenue sharer.
Speaker 3: That is what I am after. It is always what
Speaker 3: I was after. But people don't realize that when you
Speaker 3: talk about this, because you brought up the questions. So
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get to your point about you know, in
Speaker 3: terms of my plan and building my stuff and what
Speaker 3: it was all about. Everybody knows. ESPN five me. In
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, we had a contract dispute. I
Speaker 3: thought that I deserved more than they offered. I was
Speaker 3: appalled at the offer they made me. I did not
Speaker 3: like it. I did not appreciate it. I felt disrespected
Speaker 3: and I said no, not realizing that they were going
Speaker 3: to say, effort, you can leave, and that they had
Speaker 3: all the leverage on the planet because the same person
Speaker 3: that saw the forest from the trees and newspaper got
Speaker 3: cocky and didn't pay attention to the landscape in television
Speaker 3: and two thousand and eight going into two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3: So I'm here thinking, just make sure my phone's turned off.
Speaker 3: So I'm here thinking, fellas.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: They screaming my name. They know me everywhere. I'm on commercials,
Speaker 3: I'm on the side of buses. Please shit, I'm the man.
Speaker 3: Of course you're gonna pay me. No, I wasn't on
Speaker 3: the definitive show. I wasn an appointment viewing. Remember quite
Speaker 3: frankly my show on ESPN two from two thousand and
Speaker 3: five to two thousand seven and got canceled in two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven. Remember I was on the NBA Countdown.
Speaker 3: Got pulled off from NBA Countdown in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3: So all I had was radio, which was expendable, and
Speaker 3: sports and appearances. You didn't have a definitive place where
Speaker 3: you knew to catch me. So what did they do
Speaker 3: under the old regime. They signed me a contract in
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. They give me six hundred thousand
Speaker 3: dollars less than what I had turned down, okay, and
Speaker 3: less at than what their initial offer was. Right then
Speaker 3: on top of it all, they kept me off the
Speaker 3: air all of a sudden, y'all didn't see me, you
Speaker 3: didn't hear me. What happened to stephen A still in
Speaker 3: the contract, still employed, showing up to a game in
Speaker 3: Atlanta for the playoffs from Miami and Atlanta. It's all
Speaker 3: of my books, straight shooter showing up to the game,
Speaker 3: and I'm writing for ESPN dot com and I wasn't
Speaker 3: allowed on Sports Center. You're talking about a brother that
Speaker 3: would be on the air, and went from being on
Speaker 3: the air two hundred and fifty to three hundred days
Speaker 3: out of the year to being on the air three times,
Speaker 3: and so as a result, out of sight, out of mind.
Speaker 3: So when the additional contract came or when the contract
Speaker 3: came down in two thousand and nine that I was
Speaker 3: looking for, there was no contract. We've decided were going
Speaker 3: to move in a different direction, and I had no
Speaker 3: recourse because they had spent the year the previous year
Speaker 3: diluting my potency because I wasn't seen nor heard from
Speaker 3: by the audience, and ultimately it stripped me or whatever
Speaker 3: potency I had, I had no leverage. And then on
Speaker 3: top of it all. Let's call it what it is.
Speaker 3: I'm a brother. So what happens is is that you
Speaker 3: get let go or there must be sinno. He might
Speaker 3: not be somebody we want to mess with. We don't
Speaker 3: need to touch him. And and I was toast and
Speaker 3: that reality hit me, and it was the scariest shit
Speaker 3: that ever happened to me. Because I'm a new dad.
Speaker 3: I'm unemployed. You know, I had lost my job at
Speaker 3: the Philadelphia Inquiry at the time because I was beefing
Speaker 3: with new management because they didn't want me there any
Speaker 3: longer because I was doing so much work in New
Speaker 3: York for ESPN and I was never in Philly, and
Speaker 3: so everything came like a tsunami all at one time.
Speaker 3: And so when that experience happened, and ultimately I'm unemployed
Speaker 3: for ten and a half months, living off my savings. Okay,
Speaker 3: from that point forward, I get back into Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3: I get a guid that's the former president of Cumulus Radio,
Speaker 3: Mike McVeigh, that is tutoring me on radio on how
Speaker 3: to do radio right, but more importantly, prioritizing with me
Speaker 3: the importance of learning the business. You thought you were popular,
Speaker 3: but you didn't know where was your data, what was
Speaker 3: your ratings? What kind of revenue did you have did
Speaker 3: you generate? Do we know where to find you? Are
Speaker 3: you appointment viewing? And when I saw all of that
Speaker 3: and I recognized that, I said, the worst thing they
Speaker 3: could possibly do is give me a shot, a second chance,
Speaker 3: because what happens is is that I'm gonna study this business.
Speaker 3: So I get back in Skip Bayles's comes to me.
Speaker 3: Bys's no, not a call. We're in a parking lot
Speaker 3: of Bristol, Connecticut, ESPN headquarters outside of building four. Skip says,
Speaker 3: I know you got your dreams and your visits are
Speaker 3: doing NBA blah blah blah, he said, but I need you.
Speaker 3: He didn't need me for ratings, they were doing fine,
Speaker 3: but on an everyday basis, he needed someone he felt
Speaker 3: he could trust on a five day a week basis
Speaker 3: that was gonna bring that heat, bring that energy, and
Speaker 3: somebody he felt and his words wasn't gonna backstab them.
Speaker 3: And so he said, there's only one man, and he said,
Speaker 3: I need you to do this for me. Remember in
Speaker 3: two thousand and one, they were gonna give us our
Speaker 3: own show to go up against PTI. When we were
Speaker 3: both at Fox. But what happened was is that at
Speaker 3: the eleventh hour, for some reason, David Hill, the boss
Speaker 3: of the Fox at the time, they'll go with it.
Speaker 3: And so fast forward, this is eleven years later and
Speaker 3: here we are, and he asked me to do it.
Speaker 3: I thought about it, and I said, he's right, because
Speaker 3: I want my own show. They probably ain't gonna get
Speaker 3: me my own show again. They gonna probably leave me
Speaker 3: on the NBA or whatever. This is the thing to do.
Speaker 3: Let me go ahead and do it. I come on board.
Speaker 3: We skyrocket to number one in one month. One month
Speaker 3: we were number one on the ESPN two, which was
Speaker 3: a big deal because the ESPN two wasn't getting that
Speaker 3: kind of shine. And then from that point forward everything happened.
Speaker 3: And so now we fast forward twenty fifteen and then
Speaker 3: ultimately twenty and nineteen and negotiations take place, and I'm
Speaker 3: a different beast because I walk in there and it's
Speaker 3: no ain't no emotion. These are my numbers. This is
Speaker 3: what I deserve. Can I have that place? Well, Steven,
Speaker 3: we think you deserved to say, okay, but these are
Speaker 3: my numbers. And instead of them saying go after yourself,
Speaker 3: they were here, I was here, We met here. You
Speaker 3: see what I'm saying, and so from that point forward,
Speaker 3: it just prioritized for me knowing the business. We fast
Speaker 3: forward to now the business has changed. It's about you
Speaker 3: got so many people about podcasting. Listen. I didn't want
Speaker 3: to advertise this to everybody or whatever. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying it's not a podcast. I got a great deal
Speaker 3: with our Heart Radio for the next year and a
Speaker 3: couple of months or so that expires co terminus with
Speaker 3: my ESPN contract. You know when that key is being
Speaker 3: contract and so does everything else. You know, for me,
Speaker 3: from a negotiating standpoint, that's best suited for me, that's
Speaker 3: what I negotiated. Yes, it's a podcast. In terms of
Speaker 3: the audio portion. I built the studio. I built a
Speaker 3: television studio. When you look at First Take or Get
Speaker 3: Up or shows like that, the PTZ cameras, the JIB
Speaker 3: and the JIB operators and the producers, that's what I have.
Speaker 3: I'm not here for a podcast. I'm here for a show.
Speaker 3: I'm here to not just produce my show, but to
Speaker 3: find young talent to produce shows for. I'm not here
Speaker 3: to do just the sports show. I could do a
Speaker 3: late night show. I could do a daytime show. I
Speaker 3: could do a political show similar to Real Time with
Speaker 3: Bill Maher, the Daily Show, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 3: It can go in any direction. The space that I
Speaker 3: do it in is rented. Everything in the space is
Speaker 3: owned by me with the sole express purpose of building
Speaker 3: Mister Sas Productions, which is my production company. So when
Speaker 3: people are talking about a podcast or whatever, first of all,
Speaker 3: my podcast it was never a sports podcast. It was
Speaker 3: listed under what is it a society in society and culture?
Speaker 3: Society and culture. That's number one, number two. It was
Speaker 3: that way. If you remember, it was originally called No Mercy.
Speaker 3: I wasn't allowed to use my name initially, and then
Speaker 3: ESPN gave me permission later because I still have an
Speaker 3: employee contract, I had to carve out my independence. So
Speaker 3: all of these years, people like yourselves and great, by
Speaker 3: the way, major congratulations to y'all. Y'all got a damn
Speaker 3: million followers crowd now doing y'all thing. Major props to
Speaker 3: y'all well deserved, well deserved. But what I'm saying is, well,
Speaker 3: what y'all are doing. I said this to Shannon because
Speaker 3: Shannon's like, don't you think about doing this. Don't you
Speaker 3: think about doing that? I said, Yo, Shannon, You're a
Speaker 3: former athlete, a three time super Bowl champion, Hall of Famer,
Speaker 3: Cam and Mace hip hop artists doing their thing. You
Speaker 3: brothers doing your thing. You got to remember I didn't
Speaker 3: have that independence. I had an employee contract, and when
Speaker 3: I came back in two thousand and nine, I wasn't
Speaker 3: in a position to have my independence. I haven't now,
Speaker 3: and so now it's a different animal because this is
Speaker 3: what I waited for.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: I hesitate to say those kind of things often because
Speaker 3: to people it's a license for them to assume I
Speaker 3: want to leave ESPN. I'm not happy at ESPN. I'm
Speaker 3: not happy at Disney. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 3: I got a great job, I got a great bosses.
Speaker 3: I got a personal relationship with Bob Iger, to Jimmy
Speaker 3: Pittarro down Den Bergland, the powers that be on speed dial.
Speaker 3: I just finished talking to President this morning. I have
Speaker 3: it like that within that company period. Okay, but they
Speaker 3: understand business better than me, and if the opportunity is
Speaker 3: great for me to stay, I'm happy to stay. If
Speaker 3: they feel differently than I do, then I got to
Speaker 3: be ready to make moves. But it's a beautiful thing
Speaker 3: because the level of freedom that y'all have had, that
Speaker 3: athletes have, that former athletes have, former artists or present
Speaker 3: artists have, I never had. I have been an employee
Speaker 3: all my life, full time employee, meaning one until a
Speaker 3: year ago when I carved out the independence to do
Speaker 3: my podcast, to build my production company, and to have
Speaker 3: that separate and apart from ESPN. So when everybody looks
Speaker 3: and they're saying, you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing that,
Speaker 3: and I'm looking at the numbers, but I'm looking at
Speaker 3: cats been doing this, doing this for years, doing that
Speaker 3: for years. You know. Major props to the mcafees of
Speaker 3: the world to build Simmons of the world. Joe Rogan's
Speaker 3: a beast. I mean, these guys are phenomenal, make no
Speaker 3: mistake about it. They deserve all the credits in the world.
Speaker 3: They've been doing this seven, eight, twelve, twenty years. I'm
Speaker 3: at one. I'm coming. This is what I've been waiting
Speaker 3: for all my life. So I'm fifty six and i
Speaker 3: feel like I'm going on twenty six. I'm just getting started.
Speaker 3: Because I've never had had the freedom and what so
Speaker 3: many of these fools and social media and the trolls
Speaker 3: and all of them don't realize it. You brothers, the
Speaker 3: brothers that I mentioned, Shay Shay, you know, all of
Speaker 3: these cats, the athletes, y'all will never know how thankful
Speaker 3: I am to y'all because y'all had a level of
Speaker 3: courage and bravery to exercise your freedom. I didn't have
Speaker 3: the freedom, so I didn't have the courage to push
Speaker 3: for it for so long until recently. That's why you
Speaker 3: see me when people call you like, damn, he did
Speaker 3: this interview, He did this interview, He did that interview.
Speaker 3: It's my way of showing my gratitude because everybody that's
Speaker 3: doing it, it's like, yo, y'all, I'm not hating. I'm thankful,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. Even with Pat McAfee. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm a brother. He's a white boy, know say and
Speaker 3: white doing and all of that stuff, because we know
Speaker 3: the rules are different for them than it is for us.
Speaker 3: But I can't even tell you how grateful I am
Speaker 3: to him. He came and ESPN gave him that Wait
Speaker 3: a minute, they gave him now he on YouTube, Well
Speaker 3: what they gonna get to the brother that's literally on
Speaker 3: ESPN and has been there for twenty years. I wrote
Speaker 3: down the numbers. You see what I'm saying. Those are
Speaker 3: those are the kind of things that I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: And so I'm looking at Bill Simmons, you Spotify, and
Speaker 3: I'm looking at Joe Rogan and Spotify and now Apple.
Speaker 3: I'm watching it all. And when I come to the table, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have all those numbers. Yeah, can I read
Speaker 3: some of them? Sure? All right? So we talked about McAfee.
Speaker 4: He has a five year deal seventeen million a year,
Speaker 4: Troy Aikman at Fox eighteen million a year, Joe Buck,
Speaker 4: I mean, he's a Hall of Fame talent fifteen million
Speaker 4: a year. And we know Romo, and we just thought
Speaker 4: what Tom Brady got? That's what did Tom Brady get
Speaker 4: over three hundred and fifty million more than he made
Speaker 4: it as an entire football playing how many years?
Speaker 3: I think ten years, ten years.
Speaker 9: It's a ten year, three hundred and fifty seven million
Speaker 9: dollars deal. Before we leave three hundred and seventy five
Speaker 9: minut I'm glad you said that, though, before we leave,
Speaker 9: I mean, if you rush me it's fine, I'm good,
Speaker 9: but that Jalen wrote, but I wanted to just say
Speaker 9: something I don't want to forget. He interviewed Jalen Rose,
Speaker 9: and he brought up a good point that I never
Speaker 9: thought about before. All those names that you just named, Shot,
Speaker 9: they're all excellent, but they're all also white men. So
Speaker 9: his thing is that sports football and basketball, which dominate
Speaker 9: the ratings, are dominated by black people for the most part,
Speaker 9: and he felt that he had an issue that why
Speaker 9: is there no black people that's getting paid at the
Speaker 9: highest level when there's obviously a lot of black people
Speaker 9: that are qualified that have played the sports, that have
Speaker 9: not played the sports but still know about the sports,
Speaker 9: like yourself, and he when he kind of went through
Speaker 9: these numbers, and I never really looked at it like
Speaker 9: that because nobody really looks at how much, you know,
Speaker 9: sports analysts are making. But I'm like, damn, that's that's
Speaker 9: that's interesting and it's pretty alarming as well. Right, So
Speaker 9: what's your take on that?
Speaker 3: Well, my take is, let me be the elder statesman. Yeah,
Speaker 3: all right, we got to grow up and learn that
Speaker 3: there's a game that has to be played in every
Speaker 3: walk of life. Do you see the stuff that's happened
Speaker 3: in our political stratosphere. You think Barack Obama didn't want
Speaker 3: to curse a few people are could you imagine what
Speaker 3: Michelle Michell Obam from Chicago. Could you imagine what that
Speaker 3: sister wanted to say to some of these people she
Speaker 3: had to deal with. Let me tell you what our
Speaker 3: problem is as black people, and I'm gonna say it
Speaker 3: because I can. When Michelle and Barack Obama didn't do that,
Speaker 3: we instantly understood you can't do that. They're trying to
Speaker 3: win to presidency. It's gonna cost the vault, right, we
Speaker 3: understand that. But when it comes to our own selves
Speaker 3: in corporate America, we don't get that. All of a sudden,
Speaker 3: we got selective amnesia. That's nonsense. That's nonsense. It's not
Speaker 3: about whether Jalen Rose is right or not, because I'm
Speaker 3: not refuting what he's saying the point that he was
Speaker 3: bringing up. But there's a game that has to be played.
Speaker 3: Did you play it well enough? Because Hee in two
Speaker 3: thousand and nine, I didn't, and I got burned. Now
Speaker 3: if I said that, when white folks catch a cold,
Speaker 3: black folks catching the modia, meaning that it's always gonna
Speaker 3: be worse for us than it is for white folks.
Speaker 3: Ain't that another way of saying that. Ain't that an
Speaker 3: example that falls under that umbrella. So this is me
Speaker 3: if I knew y'all personally and we vibed one another,
Speaker 3: and you trusted me with your business in terms of
Speaker 3: just confiding in me, right, and then I see you
Speaker 3: doing something because you told me what your goals were
Speaker 3: and what your ambitions were. But then I see you
Speaker 3: doing something that's gonna compromise that, I'm gonna pick up
Speaker 3: the phone.
Speaker 6: And call you.
Speaker 3: You broke up, come in, Uh huh, because you said
Speaker 3: this was your goal. And the reason I use that
Speaker 3: analogy I'll never forget. And if you ever speak to him,
Speaker 3: you can ask him. Scoop Jackson, Chicago sports writer. It's
Speaker 3: my dog. I love that brother, love him to death.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: I would go up to school. I did go off
Speaker 3: to school because only one time I went up to
Speaker 3: him years ago, and I like, yo, bro, brilliant basketball, mind,
Speaker 3: brilliant writer, the whole nine. Please understand, you got to
Speaker 3: look the part blah blah blah blah. You know saying
Speaker 3: Justin can't always be baggy jeans and the whole all
Speaker 3: of this other stuff. I don't care about none of that.
Speaker 3: I got to be me at all times, all course,
Speaker 3: even if it's dressed like this. Is how I addressed Eve,
Speaker 3: and I said, you don't mind it affecting your money?
Speaker 3: He said not at all. I said, my dog, because
Speaker 3: he said I don't mind it affecting my money. Now,
Speaker 3: if he had said, I still want to make this,
Speaker 3: I'd have been like, now, I see now, I got
Speaker 3: a problem with you because I'm because the formulas at
Speaker 3: some point, at every it changes. It's not the same
Speaker 3: now but back in the day, because this was back
Speaker 3: in the day. Back in the day, the formula was
Speaker 3: the formula.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 3: I just happened to love dressing shop because I've been
Speaker 3: dressing poor. I grew up dressing poor, and I believe
Speaker 3: in dressing with fly ass clothes. That's our business wise.
Speaker 3: That's just me. But but that's it's not everybody. But
Speaker 3: I'm saying I'm good. I was good with him because
Speaker 3: he accepted that. You got a lot of people who don't.
Speaker 3: They want to come to people like y'all, and they
Speaker 3: want to talk about the unfairness and the inequities that
Speaker 3: exist when we all know as black men, they exist.
Speaker 3: So what you're gonna do to maneuval your way around it.
Speaker 3: You could be in the financial sector, you know things
Speaker 3: I hope to know. There are things that you know
Speaker 3: good and damn well, you got to deal with that.
Speaker 3: Ain't fair, It ain't right. That ain't on an up
Speaker 3: and up. But it comes with it. And so for me,
Speaker 3: there's a way that you have to maneuver your way
Speaker 3: around it. It'll never make them right for paying some
Speaker 3: folks other than they pay others. But you brought up
Speaker 3: the names of ESPN. Let me tell you something right now,
Speaker 3: I can sit here as a black man and tell
Speaker 3: you I don't have a single solitary problem with any
Speaker 3: dollars they paid to anybody. Pat McAfee was kicking ass
Speaker 3: with over two million subscribers on YouTube when they decided
Speaker 3: we want to embrace the world of digital and this
Speaker 3: is a dude that we can do that with. There's
Speaker 3: nothing to talk about with Troy Aikman and Joe Buck.
Speaker 3: You do understanding, No, No, that's not the reason is
Speaker 3: that do you understand they pay for themselves?
Speaker 6: What do you mean they pay for themselves?
Speaker 3: Because they're calling a game. People watch it, not just
Speaker 3: that the NFL will what us to have a game
Speaker 3: because their voice is on it. So in other words,
Speaker 3: what I'm saying to you is, when you look at it,
Speaker 3: this no secret Troy Aikman and Joe Buck if they're
Speaker 3: not there, I don't know the answer to this. I'm guessing,
Speaker 3: but damn it is me. So it's a pretty educated guest.
Speaker 3: Where we're talking about sports media ESPN. I'm willing to
Speaker 3: bet that we would not have had the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 3: Tampa Bay Buccaneers playoff game if Troy eight Men and
Speaker 3: Joe Bunk weren't calling it. You know how much money
Speaker 3: that one game generates for a network? They pay for themselves.
Speaker 3: They pay for themselves. Anybody that would look You look
Speaker 3: at a Kirk curvesheet, ABC, Amazon, You look at Mike
Speaker 3: Greenberg Morning Show, the Ultimate Host. You look at the
Speaker 3: people that they paid. My god, Tom Brady, that's Fox. Yes.
Speaker 3: Tom Brady is a seven time champion who, by the way,
Speaker 3: is pretty damn articulate, can be very opinionated. Just go
Speaker 3: watch him on the Steven A. Schiptcher. When I interviewed
Speaker 3: them on YouTube channel a few months ago. Listen to
Speaker 3: this brother talk football. He had the audition, and they
Speaker 3: probably said, oh shit, this we got some in here,
Speaker 3: gonna lock this brother for ten years. That's not it.
Speaker 3: What I've said is I pay attention to all of
Speaker 3: those numbers because my turn is coming. Espn never came.
Speaker 3: They never heard me come to them and say, rip
Speaker 3: up my contract. I don't want to honor it. They
Speaker 3: never heard me say I ain't showing up to work.
Speaker 3: I want more. No, all anybody has heard me say,
Speaker 3: people who succeed at a very high level usually get
Speaker 3: awarded according to the market. So all I do is
Speaker 3: watch the market. No one wrote for folks to make
Speaker 3: money in this business more than me, because I'm looking
Speaker 3: at the market and I'm going like this, ah, franchise,
Speaker 3: That's how much money's out here, franchise And I'm loving it.
Speaker 3: I'm saying it's like it makes me laugh. Like now
Speaker 3: we got Shannon shopping. He was on Fox and his
Speaker 3: career was over and all of this nonsense. Now, I
Speaker 3: wasn'tletting that happen to that brother. Okay, oh but damn
Speaker 3: he on first take.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's also got club Shashae and he's also
Speaker 3: got nightcap, and I'm like, hmm, well, where was he
Speaker 3: in year one? Because this is what he's doing now, major,
Speaker 3: major props to him. But I'm not violating his trust
Speaker 3: by telling you what I told him. This is my
Speaker 3: first year. I got over six hundred thousan subscribers since
Speaker 3: I was allowed to use my name. Y'all know about
Speaker 3: the algorithm's YouTube and all of that stuff. Ain't nobody
Speaker 3: calling up No Mercy. They called up stephen A, and
Speaker 3: No Mercy wouldn't pop up. So now that it's the
Speaker 3: steven A. Smith Shaw gets, guess what pops up. That's
Speaker 3: why I've got over six hundred thousand subscribers in year one.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at that, and the mistake people make is
Speaker 3: they think, oh, we ESPN, what you're gonna do? You
Speaker 3: gonna pay them? Nah, I'm very confident that ESPN is
Speaker 3: gonna be fair by me. If they're not, then that's
Speaker 3: a different story. But don't I don't think that's gonna
Speaker 3: be a problem. I tell you, my bosses show nothing
Speaker 3: but love to me. My point is, I'm shocked that
Speaker 3: everybody hasn't brought up all the other opportunities because there's
Speaker 3: a big world out there, and I'm coming to it
Speaker 3: for the first time. I am. I got the excent
Speaker 3: of a twenty six year.
Speaker 4: I want to talk about because he brought up Shannon,
Speaker 4: but I want to talk about something that that doesn't
Speaker 4: get brought up a lot. Yeah, And as part of
Speaker 4: I attributed to a part of your legacy, and that's
Speaker 4: the doors that you're opening for others. So you are
Speaker 4: the executive producer on First Take, sir, we can get
Speaker 4: into the roles at that place, but opening the doors
Speaker 4: for Dani Orlowski, having Molly on their Marcus Spears, every
Speaker 4: single Clark, every person, every person on it's hand picked
Speaker 4: by you and handpicked by me. I think a jj
Speaker 4: Reddick and his first encounters were on First Take. You
Speaker 4: now see him have a show with Lebron. It's like
Speaker 4: that starts from having that dialogue and going back and forth.
Speaker 3: And figuring out talk about how intentional.
Speaker 4: You are about making sure that not your legacy, but
Speaker 4: the legacy of journalistic integrity in this space means to you.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't mind talking about both. Journalistic integrity obviously
Speaker 3: is significantly important to me, which is why I acknowledged
Speaker 3: with Kyrie's dad, with Big Dog Robinson, I was wrong
Speaker 3: because when you're wrong, you're wrong. And you know, especially
Speaker 3: when it comes to us as men, as black men,
Speaker 3: you ain't worth a damn if you can't admit when
Speaker 3: you're wrong, if you know in your heart you feel
Speaker 3: you wrong, if you can't admit that, you ain't worth nothing.
Speaker 3: So I'm definitely about that, but also about the fact
Speaker 3: that you know, journalistic integrity matters, because I want anybody
Speaker 3: that's in front of me to know that I live
Speaker 3: on that. And what I mean by that is this,
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what I feel, whatever your story is,
Speaker 3: you have a right to tell. Even at my worst,
Speaker 3: with those two incidences, if they said something, if there
Speaker 3: was something that was there, I never, ever, ever in
Speaker 3: my career have intentionally reported it's something false. I don't
Speaker 3: take stuff out of context. I don't do that. I
Speaker 3: don't live I will put my personal integrity and humanity
Speaker 3: on center stage. Name the time and place and the audience,
Speaker 3: and I'll show up. That's me. That's what I live on.
Speaker 3: So that in that regard journalistic integrity. Absolutely on a
Speaker 3: personal side, man, it's amazing what age does to you.
Speaker 3: When I think about myself two years ago I'm in
Speaker 3: the hospital. It's New Year's Eve. I got COVID. I
Speaker 3: got double pneumonia in both lungs. I'm not breathing while
Speaker 3: doctors tell me we're gonna try the steroid and it's
Speaker 3: an about it. It's your work in about three to
Speaker 3: four hours. If it doesn't work, we gotta call your
Speaker 3: family in the world trouble. It was that bad, and
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it, because, you know, God bless her.
Speaker 3: You know, very few people on the planet are closer
Speaker 3: to me, to my youngest sister, Carmen. I got four
Speaker 3: older sisters. She's my youngest. My sister Carmon and I
Speaker 3: are very very tight, but calm and smokes every day.
Speaker 3: Carmen got COVID on a Friday. She was find that Monday,
Speaker 3: and I'm sitting there. I don't do this stuff, and
Speaker 3: I'm on death's door and I'm like, you gotta be
Speaker 3: kidding me. Comet believe it, you know. And I experienced
Speaker 3: that I had had surgery on both shoulders, both torm
Speaker 3: rotator cuffs and both shoulders, needs that I hadn't addressed
Speaker 3: in years. I dressed all of that, and then I
Speaker 3: had this going on and I had so much happen
Speaker 3: to me that a few months later, because I couldn't
Speaker 3: do anything, I couldn't get in the weight room, I
Speaker 3: couldn't get in the gym and train, nothing like that.
Speaker 3: It was months months later before I could do that
Speaker 3: when a doctor finally told me, you get to go.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 3: I've been in the gym ever since. I've lost about
Speaker 3: thirty eight pounds thirty eight to forty pounds. Body fat
Speaker 3: was at twenty nine point six percent. It's at ten
Speaker 3: point four eleven now. I got to get back to
Speaker 3: ten point four to ten. It was at ten point
Speaker 3: four two weeks ago. Cholesterol was over three hundred down
Speaker 3: to two hundred. I was on a verge of being
Speaker 3: a full blown diabetic. My insolent resistant levels, they said,
Speaker 3: was at a twenty seven. I dropped it down to two.
Speaker 3: I did all of this, and I feel better than
Speaker 3: I felt since I was in my early twenties. That's
Speaker 3: how good I feel compared to what I once was
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. I bring all of that
Speaker 3: up to say, my life is going this way if
Speaker 3: all I got to show for it is what I benefit.
Speaker 3: I just woke up one day and I didn't feel good.
Speaker 3: I was like, yo, man, there's a lot of brothers
Speaker 3: and sisters out here that could use my help, my expertise,
Speaker 3: what I bring to the table, Give them some shine,
Speaker 3: give them some my opportunity. And it became more important
Speaker 3: to me. Not to say that it wasn't before, but
Speaker 3: it became more important to me than ever before to
Speaker 3: be somebody who gives back. I smiled when Ryan Clark
Speaker 3: got his new contract. I smiled when Shannon got an
Speaker 3: extension to the deal that's gonna keep him through the
Speaker 3: NBA season, Because when I originally signed him, he's only
Speaker 3: supposed to be on till the Super bowls Now he's
Speaker 3: now he's on through the rest of the NBA season,
Speaker 3: and I'm quite sure they're gonna give him something down
Speaker 3: the line. The dan Olowski's the Marcus Spears of the world.
Speaker 3: You know JJ Reddick, you know, I mean, don't get
Speaker 3: me right of the I mean we we we're cool
Speaker 3: with each other, but I don't know him like that.
Speaker 3: But I got a tremendous respect Molly, you know, my
Speaker 3: matriarch on the show, and what she brings to the table.
Speaker 3: The Kimberly Mars Monica mcnuts of the world call the
Speaker 3: nick Games and all of this other stuff. First Take
Speaker 3: is a flagship platform now that you that that takes
Speaker 3: folks in springboardwards them for additional opportunities, and they were
Speaker 3: handpicked by me. And it makes me feel good, It
Speaker 3: really really does. Man. I don't I don't know how
Speaker 3: to explain it, but you know, I don't want to
Speaker 3: sound too damn old, but I damn They'll feel like
Speaker 3: a proud parent when I see these folks maximizing the
Speaker 3: opportunities and taking advantage of Because when Max and I
Speaker 3: Max Killerman and our party ways, when when we when
Speaker 3: they when they handed the show to me as an EP,
Speaker 3: I knew what they were doing. Yes, so on you
Speaker 3: now get it done or else? You know. It was
Speaker 3: like that. And I went to all of these contributors
Speaker 3: one by one, called them or met him face to face.
Speaker 3: Jeff Saturday, let me not forget him too that I
Speaker 3: think he does a fantastic job for Paul Fine, bamb
Speaker 3: you know, Joe Fort and Bab with the gambling gaming,
Speaker 3: all of these people. I went to them, everybody that
Speaker 3: contributes the First Take, and I said, this is what
Speaker 3: I need from you, everybody's different. What you'll give me
Speaker 3: on first ticket is different than what you might give me.
Speaker 3: Everybody's a different personality, different diction, different tenor different momentum, energy, etc.
Speaker 3: And I studied each of them and I said, this
Speaker 3: is what I need. And I don't know if anybody
Speaker 3: in the business can say this. We got about thirteen
Speaker 3: different contributors on the show. Every single one of them
Speaker 3: stepped up, every one of them. I don't have one
Speaker 3: single complaint. Mad Though Russell let me forget him. I
Speaker 3: don't have one single complaint Damian Woody, Dominique Foxworth, Bart Scott,
Speaker 3: Chris Canty, all of these guys. I don't have one
Speaker 3: single individual that has let me down. And I'm not
Speaker 3: talking about totality. I'm talking about every day they come on,
Speaker 3: every single one of them. Even when JJ Reddick and
Speaker 3: I got into it a couple of times on the ear,
Speaker 3: I had to go on the air and tell people
Speaker 3: stand down. I asked them to do that. Come right
Speaker 3: at me, you got something to say say it, Just
Speaker 3: be able to take it. It's all I asked. Kendrick Perkers,
Speaker 3: let me not forget my brother. You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You know, Jay Williams, all of them. I can't say
Speaker 3: enough about him. I mean, I sit here as a
Speaker 3: very very grateful individual. And Shannon Listen, I didn't know
Speaker 3: him that well. I knew him, like he said when
Speaker 3: he was on the Talk months ago. He was like,
Speaker 3: I knew him, but I ain't on him. Same here.
Speaker 3: I know him, but I ain't know him. You know,
Speaker 3: we said alo to one another. He got on me
Speaker 3: about eating too many damn crunchberdies. I had that belly
Speaker 3: needs to get rid of it, the whole nine. I'll
Speaker 3: never say a negative word about Skip Baylor's ever. That's
Speaker 3: my man. He got me started on first take. Who
Speaker 3: knows where my future would be if Skip Baylor's didn't
Speaker 3: afford me that opportunity. I don't agree with everything he
Speaker 3: says or does, but I'll always have love for him
Speaker 3: because of my gratitude to him. But I saw what
Speaker 3: had happened to Shannon, and I knew I was there before.
Speaker 3: When they let me go in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 3: I didn't have it. Stephen A. Smith, who was an
Speaker 3: executive producer for his show on a major network, to
Speaker 3: watch my back, and I brought him. I told him,
Speaker 3: you want to come to first take. I got you
Speaker 3: and all this brother all he wants. Respect him, No
Speaker 3: disrespect him.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 3: You're set. I'm saying three times, Suo Bow Champion, hall
Speaker 3: of Famer. You know what I'm saying, Yo, man, respect me.
Speaker 3: It's all he wanted, se easy requests. He got no
Speaker 3: choice but to respect somebody with those credentials. And this
Speaker 3: brother comes on the air every Monday and Tuesday, bro Fellas,
Speaker 3: he brings the rain, brings the rain. He's doing all
Speaker 3: the stuff he's doing. But there's no short change in
Speaker 3: Ryan Clark, Pivot, no short change in Swag Gool Kendrick,
Speaker 3: all of them. No short changing. Nobody let me down.
Speaker 3: And that's why I've been so successful.
Speaker 5: Well, Stephen A has been an honor and a pleasure.
Speaker 5: Y'are a scholar and gentleman. Thank you for taking the time.
Speaker 5: And you know a lot of information that was provided
Speaker 5: that I think people can actually learn from because it's money.
Speaker 5: That's why we created the platform right to actually provide
Speaker 5: a blueprint for people that have done it in real
Speaker 5: time and people that are on to come up to
Speaker 5: learn from. So I think you know you've gave a
Speaker 5: lot of insight and he was extremely transparent about your
Speaker 5: own personal story.
Speaker 6: So thank you for that.
Speaker 3: Sure, I appreciate it, man. And tell y'all y'all doing
Speaker 3: a great job, man. And just look, y'all interview a
Speaker 3: lot of people, You ask a lot of questions, but
Speaker 3: there's a lot of knowledge that y'all have to drop.
Speaker 3: So keep dropping it because we all needed all of us,
Speaker 3: you know, And especially with the way the industry is changing,
Speaker 3: the way it's evolving, the opportunities that are out there,
Speaker 3: the opportunities that are going to potentially get missed, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera, it's incredibly, incredibly important that y'all keep bringing
Speaker 3: a voice to all of this kind of stuff. And
Speaker 3: that's why I addressed it when you brought up the
Speaker 3: whole Jalen Rose point in terms about knowing the game
Speaker 3: and all of this other stuff and not just knowing
Speaker 3: the game, because he definitely knows the game, but it's
Speaker 3: got to be your willingness to play it, because the
Speaker 3: industry is going to demand that you have a level
Speaker 3: of tolerance before it surrenders some of its assets to you.
Speaker 3: If you don't prove yourself to be somebody that they
Speaker 3: can trust to surrender some of those assets to you.
Speaker 3: They're gonna know you're never gonna get it, and if
Speaker 3: you don't get it, they're gonna give it to somebody else,
Speaker 3: and far more often than not, it's gonna be somebody
Speaker 3: that don't look like us. And so you just got
Speaker 3: to keep that in mind. And I think with brothers
Speaker 3: like yourself really educating us and talking to us about
Speaker 3: business and about the mind fields that exist out there,
Speaker 3: I hope that you realize how pivotal that is moving forward,
Speaker 3: because now more than ever, we gonna need it. I'm
Speaker 3: sitting here in my position and I'm telling you I
Speaker 3: needed so imagine how many other people are gonna need
Speaker 3: it as well. So keep bringing it, keep bringing it.
Speaker 6: Thank you, and you could watch the show on your YouTube.
Speaker 3: Channel, Stephen A. Smith Show YouTube.
Speaker 5: A with Apple, Spotify and Uncle Spotify everybody everywhere else.
Speaker 6: All right, God, thank you for rocking on with us.
Speaker 6: We'll see you next week. Peace.
Speaker 3: Peace.
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