Speaker 1: Yeah, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jailey.
Speaker 1: We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,
Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course, on the Bloomberg Record
Speaker 1: Weakness Dolla, Lira, Wow, that's and that's happening. Can I
Speaker 1: interrupt the very Haley Haley from Beverly Hills emails and
Speaker 1: loved what we did in the Celtics. Wonderful, she says.
Speaker 1: More basketballball is what she says. So let's do a
Speaker 1: review of the Los Angeles Lakers thirty five and forty
Speaker 1: seven this year. And there is your further basketball What
Speaker 1: is she doing? A I don't know. Hay from Rodeo
Speaker 1: driving Beverly Hills. Thank you, Hay, Well, thank you very much. Hailey.
Speaker 1: I'm told we have to praise Guy Johnson. Now do
Speaker 1: we have to do that on Bloomberg Radio? You know why?
Speaker 1: You know why? It was a solid interview. It was
Speaker 1: a solid one question. It was like, have you got anymore? No,
Speaker 1: it's it was okay, it was good. I think let's
Speaker 1: bring in Bloomberg's Guy Johnson Sauby, who we sat down
Speaker 1: with the President of Turkey, Guy Johnson, welcome to the program,
Speaker 1: Good morning for us. Help me out then, what was
Speaker 1: your sense from the Turkish president on the direction of
Speaker 1: monetary policy and what he'd like to see. He came
Speaker 1: here to London, he knew what he was doing. He
Speaker 1: delivered a message. The message is clear. I am in charge.
Speaker 1: I'm not only in charge of the government. I'm in
Speaker 1: charge of all aspects of the government. Everybody answers to me. Guy.
Speaker 1: I thought it was fabulous how singular the interview was
Speaker 1: in our Benjamin Harvey, with years of experience in instable
Speaker 1: felt the same way. We interviewed Mama sam Sek, the
Speaker 1: financial guy for Mr Raawan in I MF meetings. Has
Speaker 1: he even been part of the picture or is he
Speaker 1: tangential to what Turkey is going to do with lear
Speaker 1: AD four point four or five. He's currently sitting next
Speaker 1: to President Urdawan. He sat next to him at the
Speaker 1: lunch that I hosted with President Urdawan and he was
Speaker 1: president during the interview off camera obviously, but he was there.
Speaker 1: So he is currently part of the team. After the elections.
Speaker 1: Who knows? And that's another fact that the financial markets
Speaker 1: are watching. He is one of the few last roop.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think he's the only last remaining part
Speaker 1: of the economic team that the markets have any faith in.
Speaker 1: The guy. For our listeners worldwide have been following this story.
Speaker 1: It's a really odd situation in Turkey where they have
Speaker 1: double digit inflation and the traditional response to that is
Speaker 1: higher interest rates. But we have a president in Turkey
Speaker 1: who wants to see lower interest rates. Guy, did you
Speaker 1: get a sense from the president of whether he was
Speaker 1: worried about what was happening in the FX market, worried
Speaker 1: about what was happening in the bond market. He was,
Speaker 1: He didn't show it, John, He honestly, he came here.
Speaker 1: This is I He came to Bloomberg, he came to London,
Speaker 1: this is like, these are two kind of bastions of
Speaker 1: the financial landscape. And and he walked in and he
Speaker 1: delivered a message. He knew what he was doing. This
Speaker 1: wasn't something that was delivered by accidents. This was this
Speaker 1: was a message that was sent loud and clear to
Speaker 1: the financial community, to investors. I'm in charge. This is
Speaker 1: how we're gonna run monetary policy, and I am going
Speaker 1: to be the one that ultimately decides which direction that
Speaker 1: is going in. He's already indicated, he did so last weekend,
Speaker 1: that he thinks Ray should be going down, not up.
Speaker 1: You have to assume that that is now the direction
Speaker 1: of travel. He has a very different view of how
Speaker 1: economics works. So, Guy, aside from the fact that he
Speaker 1: has this really different view as to how economics work,
Speaker 1: typically markets like independent, credible central banks. And the next
Speaker 1: month there's an important election in Turkey. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about what happens in the next month in terms of
Speaker 1: electoral politics and how it may reshape the central bank. Well,
Speaker 1: he's becoming he is, he is becoming um effectively, he's
Speaker 1: going to be in sole control. At the moment we
Speaker 1: have a parliamentary system, we are going to go to
Speaker 1: an executive presidential system. That is how it's going to work.
Speaker 1: All power will be centered in him. He is going
Speaker 1: to change the constitution to allow himself control of almost all,
Speaker 1: in fact, all of the levers of power in Turkey.
Speaker 1: He everything will center on him. And as a result
Speaker 1: of which, why should monetary policy be any different? Guy,
Speaker 1: fantastic interview, Just a brilliant interview, and Guy Johnson Tom
Speaker 1: Kane even said it was solid, and I think that
Speaker 1: hurt him a little bit. Taking the box that did
Speaker 1: that hurt a little bit to admit that it was solid. No,
Speaker 1: it was great. It was you know. And I will
Speaker 1: say this as well, it's very hard, much harder, I
Speaker 1: should say, to do an interview where they're answering in
Speaker 1: their own language. That really can with a translator, and
Speaker 1: it really changes the dynamic from you know, like a
Speaker 1: craft point, from a method standpoint, and it took the
Speaker 1: story forward. I'll say, yeah, and I don't care. The
Speaker 1: bottom light is the market doesn't give a damn what
Speaker 1: Guy Johnson thinks. Is guy going now so shreds? Okay?
Speaker 1: The bottom light is the market john Pharaoh. The market
Speaker 1: is saying to Guy Johnson, you don't know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. I think the market is saying that to
Speaker 1: the President of Turkey, let's bring in Phoenix. Kalin Shaw,
Speaker 1: Society General director of Emerging Market Strategy. Phenis great to
Speaker 1: have you with us on the program. Your thoughts on
Speaker 1: that Bloomberg exclusive, the interview with the Turkish president and
Speaker 1: how it shapes your views on the Turkish currency. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's just shocking the message that he actually
Speaker 1: delivered to an international audience of all people, um, which
Speaker 1: really undermined any credibility that investors still had in the
Speaker 1: Central Bank of Turkey and in what actions they're able
Speaker 1: to take to to stem the current currency routes. So
Speaker 1: I think you know, there's, um, there's there's a lack
Speaker 1: of credibility on the part of policymakers to to try
Speaker 1: to take the appropriate actions, and so we're likely to
Speaker 1: head towards that currency crisis. Phoenix, if your morass setting
Speaker 1: Ki the governor of the Central Bank of Turkey, what
Speaker 1: on earth do you do now? Well, I guess it's
Speaker 1: it's difficult to understand the place that he's in, considering
Speaker 1: the kind of political dress that he's under, and we
Speaker 1: don't have, you know, a clear sense of what that is.
Speaker 1: But if he, if he were able to to take
Speaker 1: the full powers of his role, then it would be
Speaker 1: to necessarily calm down the markets via coming out and asserting, um,
Speaker 1: the independence of the central bank and try to do
Speaker 1: an emergency rate hike, which is what the market is
Speaker 1: demanding in order to address the currency routes. Yeah, I look,
Speaker 1: Phoenix at Turkey, is it discreet to you, I mean
Speaker 1: you follow at full time for Sarjen. Is it a
Speaker 1: screed event or does this have not kind of affects
Speaker 1: other countries? Well, I think right now Turkey is kind
Speaker 1: of an isolated situation because we do see some stress
Speaker 1: on other emerging markets right now, but nowhere neither the
Speaker 1: extent that Turkey is experiencing. And that's coming from the
Speaker 1: combination of vulnerabilities that the Turkey has in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, exposure to UM, high oil imports with rising
Speaker 1: oil prices right now, and high external financing needs UM.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a confluence of all of those factories. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned oil Brent crude seventy nine oh seven.
Speaker 1: Does Brent crude at seventy nine oh seven does that
Speaker 1: fold right in to reduce GDP and Turkey are they
Speaker 1: going into recession as we speak? Well, I think it
Speaker 1: functions more into the trade channels of really impacting the
Speaker 1: trade balance and then the current account deficits and and
Speaker 1: exacerbating those external vulnerabilities and from there influencing the financing
Speaker 1: channels and then onwards to GDP growth. So it's it's
Speaker 1: a few steps, but yes, that does ultimately curb down consumption. Um,
Speaker 1: as we move into this this latter cycle, which I
Speaker 1: suppose is what President Era to want is trying to
Speaker 1: prevent by trying to over stimulate growth. Phoenix, Just before
Speaker 1: we lose you, one final question. You did mention in
Speaker 1: this conversation and risk of a currency crisis in Turkey?
Speaker 1: What is the currency crisis in Turkey? And how how
Speaker 1: close are we too? Want? There's no pressure on Phoenix.
Speaker 1: We just want to know where the tipping point is it?
Speaker 1: Is it a five handle? Dora? I don't know, Phoenix,
Speaker 1: what is it? Well? I just hope it's not a
Speaker 1: six handle? Um, Phoenix, there's no pressure. You're the General
Speaker 1: Council of SOEN is not listening. Okay, what's the tip
Speaker 1: point here? What's the tip point here in the crisis?
Speaker 1: I think I think this is it. This is you
Speaker 1: know that US witnessing that the central bank has no
Speaker 1: ability to step in and and do UM and take
Speaker 1: the appropriate actions, and with the political authorities coming down
Speaker 1: on them, this is sort of the US sending into
Speaker 1: the crisis. Phois. Thank you so much. Fizz Kalin with
Speaker 1: US General, let's get an economic night to Shally he's
Speaker 1: been down. Two dice, hello, Jonathan. Retail sales and Manufacturing,
Speaker 1: the Commerce Department reporting retail sales rose point three percent
Speaker 1: in April, less than the prior month, which has actually
Speaker 1: revised a bit higher, but inline with forecasts. Excluding autos,
Speaker 1: we see a point three percent increase. The retail sales
Speaker 1: control group, which you know, Tom Keen monitors closely up
Speaker 1: point four percent, a bit lower than the prior month.
Speaker 1: Manufacturing Federal Reserve, Bank of New York, Empire Manufacturing Index,
Speaker 1: Regional Index topping forecasts up to twenty point one. In
Speaker 1: the headline, retail sales up point three percent in April.
Speaker 1: I'm let's go back to New York. Little Saggyny, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, greatly appreciate that little saga report. En
Speaker 1: moves weaker. Yen off that these are little little tweaks.
Speaker 1: I don't want to overplay that dollar stronger, uh En
Speaker 1: moves weaker, but there's a lot of other noise out there.
Speaker 1: Ten yere yield importantly just now goes through three point
Speaker 1: zero three to four digits three point zero three three
Speaker 1: six on the tenure yield equity features to tier A
Speaker 1: negative nine down futures negative one oh two. Um, it
Speaker 1: is good to get an update from Francis Donald. She
Speaker 1: is with Manual Life on the American economy on Canada
Speaker 1: as well. We said good morning to all of you
Speaker 1: across Canada. Uh, francis the character of the retail report
Speaker 1: Beneath it, there's a lot of data. When you dive
Speaker 1: into the data today to write your manual life. Note,
Speaker 1: what kind of data do you look at? The granular
Speaker 1: UH pages and pages? Well, number one is that control
Speaker 1: group number that comes through, because that's what the Bureau
Speaker 1: of Economic Analysis is going to use to calculate the
Speaker 1: GDP number. So we can breathe. A five release that
Speaker 1: came in on expectations today and does suggest that Q
Speaker 1: two is going to be the comeback kid that we
Speaker 1: were hopeful it will be. Under the surface, we're looking
Speaker 1: at things like gas sales important because those gas prices
Speaker 1: rising are eating into consumer pocketbooks. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a look at autos to make sure we're not seeing
Speaker 1: too much of a deceleration there. And then my personal favorite,
Speaker 1: I always have an eye on those non store retailers.
Speaker 1: Not because there's a day to day trade there or
Speaker 1: even quartered a quarter trade, but they've become so significant
Speaker 1: that they are starting to move the economic picture in abroad.
Speaker 1: So let's rephrase that to be clear. Amazon is in
Speaker 1: this data this morning. They are so total retail sales
Speaker 1: have been running about four or five percent year a year.
Speaker 1: Non store retailers overhead or double that, closer to ten
Speaker 1: percent year every year. Online retail sales of grown from
Speaker 1: about three percent of total retail sales in the up
Speaker 1: to eleven percent today, and they've captured about six of
Speaker 1: all retail sales growth that the past two years. And
Speaker 1: that's why we have to watch non store retailers because
Speaker 1: they become part of the inflation data. That's the link
Speaker 1: between the two. Do you, as a non sell side
Speaker 1: retail internet E type as an economist, do you just
Speaker 1: extrapolate Amazon's market share growth? Well, we pay attention to it,
Speaker 1: and the most important extrapolation is really what it means
Speaker 1: for pricing power. What does this mean for companies and
Speaker 1: their ability to lift the price of their goods and
Speaker 1: services over time? And is this part of the disinflationary story.
Speaker 1: When I look at retail sales data, and every time
Speaker 1: I see that non store retailers never come through, I
Speaker 1: just think this is disinflation. I just want to get
Speaker 1: to the price section. Francis, what's happening in the market,
Speaker 1: A new year today high, a new one year high,
Speaker 1: new multi year high on the US tenure year at
Speaker 1: three point zero four percent. Don't a strength, renewed dollar
Speaker 1: strength against everything in G ten and the bulk of
Speaker 1: emerging markets as well. Francis, what do you make of
Speaker 1: what we're seeing in the rates market as rates and
Speaker 1: the US dollar seemingly a recaupling over the last month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is confirmation that the US just had a soggy
Speaker 1: first quarter, that there's strength behind the US consumer moving forward.
Speaker 1: The US consumer has been the pillar of growth in
Speaker 1: the United States, and we're hoping that we can withstand
Speaker 1: that pillar and then add to it with some additional
Speaker 1: capex down the road. Now, higher oil prices has been
Speaker 1: a double edged sword here. In one sense, will worry
Speaker 1: that that's going to put some breaks on the U. S. Consumer.
Speaker 1: This type of retail sales data here fairly strong suggest
Speaker 1: that no, the U. S. Consumer can withstand higher gas prices,
Speaker 1: and then if we wait a little bit longer, we
Speaker 1: should see those higher gas and oil prices filter through
Speaker 1: to Capex as well. So this data here is a
Speaker 1: really good confirmation and probably very supportive of the strong
Speaker 1: US narratives. Francis, I'm just trying to understand that what
Speaker 1: higher rates and a stronger US dollar means for the
Speaker 1: U s A toonomy if this continues. Well, it's part
Speaker 1: of financial conditions weakening. It's part of why has the
Speaker 1: ability to be a three percent year. But that's a
Speaker 1: little bit harder. All of a sudden, we have difficult
Speaker 1: year over year comparisons, we have higher rates, and all
Speaker 1: things considered, higher rates are going to put down side
Speaker 1: pressure and then ended to do so. And we have
Speaker 1: financial conditions that are tightened, but we're still way below
Speaker 1: historical norms. And with a consumer like this, I think
Speaker 1: they have the ability to withstand it, Francis. One final question,
Speaker 1: When the Montreal Canadians are as bad as they were
Speaker 1: in hockey this year, do you end up in Montreal
Speaker 1: just rooting for the Winnipeg Jets. Well, there are last hope,
Speaker 1: especially now that the Raptors are out of the NBA
Speaker 1: for this season. So yes, we've got to hang on
Speaker 1: to even you that I'm not doing. I can't get there.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The Supreme Court opening the door to legal
Speaker 1: sports betting around the country. It invalidated federal prohibitions against
Speaker 1: the wagering on a professional as well as I believe
Speaker 1: amateur sports. Ryan A. Prit joins us now. Ryan, of
Speaker 1: course is our expert for all things Bloomberg Tax, State
Speaker 1: and Local Tax reporter. Ryan, thanks very much for being
Speaker 1: with us um tell us about this ruling and what
Speaker 1: it's going to mean for state and local governments. Absolutely well.
Speaker 1: First of all, thank you guys so much for having
Speaker 1: me on. This is a great program. Love listening to
Speaker 1: as much as I can. So yes, So, yesterday the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruled in Murphy versus the n C double
Speaker 1: A in favor of Murphy and really in favor of
Speaker 1: New Jersey. So what this ruling does is it doesn't
Speaker 1: It doesn't legalize sports betting across the board. It just
Speaker 1: repeals the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of N two,
Speaker 1: also known as Task. It repeals that in if we
Speaker 1: give states the option to legalize sports betting if they
Speaker 1: choose to so, New Jersey had already passed a law
Speaker 1: that was contingent on this ruling to set them up
Speaker 1: to enact sports betting. So how to other states Mississippi,
Speaker 1: New York, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. So what this means
Speaker 1: for those states is that they're going to try and
Speaker 1: get the ball rolling as soon as they can. Talked
Speaker 1: with a lawyer who's very familiar with this topic, and
Speaker 1: he said that New Jerseys could be offering legal sports
Speaker 1: bets by this weekend, definitely by the NBA finals. Um,
Speaker 1: so there's a huge untapped revenue revenue field here. You have.
Speaker 1: The American Gaming Association CEO on a call yesterday said
Speaker 1: that he believes that there's a hundred fifty billion dollars
Speaker 1: in this legal market that that they could try and
Speaker 1: suck up. What does this mean to multiple decades of
Speaker 1: young Pen Fox and young Tim Keen growing up knowing
Speaker 1: that if you bet on sports, you were maybe not
Speaker 1: as bad as Pete Rose, but you were able an
Speaker 1: evil person and probably go to hell. What what that
Speaker 1: that cultural, that behavioral thing that we all grew up.
Speaker 1: You don't bet on sports because it's bad. What happened
Speaker 1: yesterday to that? Oh man, Tom Boy, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: yesterday that that basically went down the garbage suppose because
Speaker 1: you even have professional sports leagues trying to get some
Speaker 1: of this revenue. You have the NBA and the MLB
Speaker 1: coming out outwardly supporting this. I mean, really is crazy.
Speaker 1: The actual MLB coming out and saying, we support legal
Speaker 1: sports betting and we want to take in one percent
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, Wow, that was fear. They lost
Speaker 1: the fear of Raliota in Shoelace, Joe Jackson or whatever
Speaker 1: it was. They've lost the fear of the Chicago Black
Speaker 1: This is before your time, I remember, just slightly. But yeah,
Speaker 1: say it is so yeah, I mean, and Ryan, what
Speaker 1: the n the n c A A uh, they still
Speaker 1: against sports betting because I mean, this does raise a
Speaker 1: lot of issues about the integrity of the game. It does.
Speaker 1: It does, and you know that is one reason why
Speaker 1: the MLB and the NBA are trying to take one
Speaker 1: per cent there. One of their one of the reasonings
Speaker 1: to that is we're gonna be able to protect the
Speaker 1: integrity of the game if we are taking in a
Speaker 1: piece of the revenue. Um, I'm not sure if that
Speaker 1: really makes sense, but but you do have a couple
Speaker 1: of states supporting that. You have West Virginia and New
Speaker 1: York supporting it. You also have Missouri supporting it. And
Speaker 1: while while none of those states have actually enacted an
Speaker 1: integrity feet into their law, they are outwardly supporting it.
Speaker 1: You have you also have the NHL come out yesterday
Speaker 1: and say that we want our players, we want our
Speaker 1: individual players to benefit from this. If this is if
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a thing, Well when you bet
Speaker 1: like this, pim quickly here you do a Red Sox hedge,
Speaker 1: which is you bet that the Red Sox will lose.
Speaker 1: But you do that if you're a Red Sox fan
Speaker 1: about April one, and then you do a spread calendar
Speaker 1: bet against it going out to July four. Will you
Speaker 1: read bet on July four that they're going to lose
Speaker 1: somehow I imagine this is going to be the word. Well, Ryan,
Speaker 1: so what's next? As you said, maybe we get we
Speaker 1: get sports betting in New Jersey by this weekend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's ping by this weekend, bye bye. Definitely by the
Speaker 1: NBA finals, Definitely by the Stanley Cup finals. Um so yeah,
Speaker 1: you'll you'll you'll be seeing betting in New Jersey in
Speaker 1: the next week, next two weeks. Next up from that
Speaker 1: will be Mississippi because they already have casinos. They already
Speaker 1: have a believe of sports book built down there. UM.
Speaker 1: So I'm hearing that Mississippi will be the next couple
Speaker 1: of months. The other states that have have been actually Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: New York, West Virginia. UM. The people that I've talked
Speaker 1: to you said you'll be able to bet in those
Speaker 1: states by by the super Bowl, and um, and and
Speaker 1: next legislative session. Um, you could expect up to twenty states,
Speaker 1: maybe even more trying to propose legislation to legalize this.
Speaker 1: Ryan pretty thank you so much, greatly appreciate it. With
Speaker 1: an update there well, well do more on this coming
Speaker 1: up here. Last night of Sotheby's, a big banner was
Speaker 1: put up by Brooke Lampley over the assembled looking at
Speaker 1: wonderful fine art, which said make art great again. She
Speaker 1: succeeded in doing this at Sothebys, where she is vice chairman.
Speaker 1: She uh became smarter than most on art history at
Speaker 1: a small school in New Haven and has moved on
Speaker 1: to a truly distinguished career in art history and as
Speaker 1: vice chairman again of Sotheby's. Brook Lampley, wonderful to have
Speaker 1: you with this, I guess at Sothebys you celebrate what
Speaker 1: do you do after an auction last night including the
Speaker 1: Madigliani at a hundred and fifty plus a million? Do
Speaker 1: do you people break out, you know, the cold duck
Speaker 1: or do you go expensive and try to have a
Speaker 1: decent bottle of champagne? What do you do after an auction?
Speaker 1: We pause for a bit of celebration before going back
Speaker 1: to the auctions again. Today we saw the day sales
Speaker 1: and then tomorrow night we will be continuing the Impressionists
Speaker 1: and Modern series with the collection of Morton and Barbara Mandel,
Speaker 1: which is opening the contemporary auction on Wednesday night. So
Speaker 1: there's only a moment I was gonna let Pim jump in,
Speaker 1: but that's right where I was going to go. How
Speaker 1: do Morton and Barbara Mandel? How do we become like them?
Speaker 1: How do you put together truly the world class art
Speaker 1: that they have that they collected over their lifetime. That's
Speaker 1: such an excellent question because that's really what we're here
Speaker 1: to help people do. Um and there are many art
Speaker 1: advisors working in this space to really help guide clients
Speaker 1: to assembling great collections that span various categories but has
Speaker 1: their own internal logical, aesthetic and dialogue. What was amazing
Speaker 1: about what the Mandela's did was that they were looking
Speaker 1: at art across um, you know, an entire century. They
Speaker 1: had a fabulous large quad Miro painting hanging next to
Speaker 1: a Donald Judd stack UM, and these works created a
Speaker 1: fabulous synergy in their incredibly modern home. So UM, the
Speaker 1: collector brings a lot of context um and vision to
Speaker 1: the art that they acquire and then how they present
Speaker 1: it UM. That becomes part of the narrative of the
Speaker 1: object um and part of the history that other people
Speaker 1: then go on to acquire when they acquire that work.
Speaker 1: Brook Lampley, if I could just break in, I just
Speaker 1: want to focus for a second on the actual painting.
Speaker 1: This Madigliani that went for a hundred and thirty nine million,
Speaker 1: that was the hammer price. With the premium and so on,
Speaker 1: that goes to a hundred and fifties seven million. Who
Speaker 1: bought it? I can't, unfortunately cannot disclose any details of
Speaker 1: the buyer um. They are anonymous, UM, but suffice to
Speaker 1: say that they are someone who UM, we're very excited
Speaker 1: uh to acquire an outstanding Madigliani nude from this series
Speaker 1: and felt very confident in the price, so much that
Speaker 1: they committed to guarantee the work in advance of the sale.
Speaker 1: So what does that mean when you say guarantee in
Speaker 1: in UH in advance of the sale that they already
Speaker 1: agreed to pay a certain amount of money if the
Speaker 1: this work was guaranteed to sell going into the sale. Um,
Speaker 1: we had UH committed price that was going to be
Speaker 1: achieved for the consigner UM on the evening of the event.
Speaker 1: And UM it was already a fantastic result that the
Speaker 1: container was very excited about. And it's just a tremendous
Speaker 1: testament to the growth in this particular market. I mean
Speaker 1: to see that um sixfold appreciation since two thousand three.
Speaker 1: And who was the seller? Can you tell us that? No,
Speaker 1: we can't disclose any details of the seller either. Have
Speaker 1: you seen just the fun of information yet? He was
Speaker 1: gonna say, because Lisa smiling on my side of this,
Speaker 1: because the last the record auction for Modigliani, right was
Speaker 1: that was set in and that was for a painting
Speaker 1: that I believe sold for about a hundred and seventy million,
Speaker 1: and that was purchased by the Chinese collector Lou Quan. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I was there at that time as well, And
Speaker 1: UM that was a fantastic result. And it's to me
Speaker 1: very interesting to think given that they that is a
Speaker 1: private collector who is acquiring for their public institution, the
Speaker 1: Long Museum, UM, it would be an interesting exercise to
Speaker 1: try and imagine what this work might have sold for
Speaker 1: U if that buyer were still in the market and
Speaker 1: hadn't already acquired a great example of a Medicaliani nude
Speaker 1: for their museum. Brook you have advanced art like nobody.
Speaker 1: I mean, you get a lot of credit for you know,
Speaker 1: you had Johnny Depp's collection. Blah blah blah. What do
Speaker 1: you need to play? Of our listeners like like to
Speaker 1: go into you and your good competitors, including Bottoms one
Speaker 1: block over from US Park Avenue. What do you need
Speaker 1: to play the game to assemble modest or better than
Speaker 1: modest collection over twenty or thirty years. I can't say
Speaker 1: that I believe there's truly any barrier to entry. You
Speaker 1: need passion and love and excitement about what you're looking at.
Speaker 1: And so many of the best collections that we regard
Speaker 1: now today, in hindsight, were formed by people just acquiring
Speaker 1: things that moved them, then they loved, and I think
Speaker 1: people learn over time, and it shapes the collection that
Speaker 1: they form. Money helps, though, doesn't it? Money helps, doesn't it?
Speaker 1: But we sell works from every praise. I understand that.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I mean we're talking about you know,
Speaker 1: Medigliani that goes for a hundred and you know, fifty
Speaker 1: million dollars. Picasso, right, I mean you're talking a hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty million. Uh is there any limit? Do you believe?
Speaker 1: I mean we've seen that, uh, Leonardo right, the uh?
Speaker 1: I think it went for four hundred and fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1: Leonardo da Vinci, Salvatore Mundi that went for four hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars, Brooke, Brooke within this is the
Speaker 1: different auctions that Sothoby does. And maybe this is away
Speaker 1: from your core competience, but I kind of think you
Speaker 1: can speak to it. How's photography doing? I mean there's
Speaker 1: always been the critics, well you should pain or pot
Speaker 1: Photography will have its moment. It's it's vogue. You have
Speaker 1: in London, you have on May seventeenth, just two days
Speaker 1: from now, a photograph auction. Is there a spirit there
Speaker 1: as well, like you saw last night in New York? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: And I think the important point is that um as
Speaker 1: more people enter the market, as there's greater and greater
Speaker 1: knowledge and confidence in the art market, people are increasingly
Speaker 1: apt to appreciate works for their quality and not um
Speaker 1: segregate them in terms of medium or region. Um it's
Speaker 1: you know it works on paper or on the rise.
Speaker 1: Photographs are definitely on the rise. You'll see an increasing
Speaker 1: number of photographs that are being offered in the contemporary
Speaker 1: art sale as opposed to a photograph sale, because we're
Speaker 1: finding that those um, those small, those regional categories, for
Speaker 1: example American paintings or Latin American painting specifically, which we
Speaker 1: integrated into their Impressionists and modern sales this season for
Speaker 1: the first time, they're increasingly outmoded. People are just looking
Speaker 1: for great works, and you mention in the tape modern
Speaker 1: jump starting the Madigliani nudes and all that, or what
Speaker 1: the v n A did with medieval tapestry a year
Speaker 1: and a half ago, or what they just did the
Speaker 1: Child's the first exhibition in London. To museum exhibitions drive
Speaker 1: your world of collecting. There's a balance, but yes, I
Speaker 1: would say generally they do. They can increase momentum or
Speaker 1: accelerate interest in a space where interest already exists a
Speaker 1: great example of that, in addition to the Madigliani retrospective
Speaker 1: would be the exhibition of Picasso's works from thirty two
Speaker 1: that is presently at the Tate Modern and previously was
Speaker 1: in Paris. People were already seduced by Picasso paintings and
Speaker 1: re test and as great depictions of Dora have become
Speaker 1: increasingly scarce um people are turning to other lovers as
Speaker 1: Marquis subjects. But certainly this exhibition helps to focus interest
Speaker 1: on that period and accelerate the prices. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: Brooke very quickly here, and I know your husband was
Speaker 1: bidding on this. Sothobes in Europe had the Bulgari diamond
Speaker 1: ring like four thousand carrots or something that when three times,
Speaker 1: how's jewelry doing that? I mean, John Tucker, is that
Speaker 1: your is that? We'll have to leave it there. Brook,
Speaker 1: you're doing jewelry book. I see, that's good to see
Speaker 1: you're doing. And Bailey, very good. Brook Lampley, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Congratulations to all of Stobs on a spectacular
Speaker 1: auction last night. I led by the mediculing on musician
Speaker 1: and well. Brook Lampley is Vice chairman of Stobs. We
Speaker 1: could go on with her forever, but believe it here
Speaker 1: with a really interesting market. Thanks for listening to the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple
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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Tom Keene before the podcast. You can
Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio