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Speaker 1: Now Here's a Highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Dohn Jeffries was a teenage volunteer with high profile Warren

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Speaker 2: Report critic Mark Lane's Citizens Committee of Inquiry in the

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Speaker 2: mid nineteen seventies. His novel The Unreals was published in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven and became a cult classic. His

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Speaker 2: works of non fiction include Hidden History and Expose of

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Speaker 2: modern crimes, conspiracies and cover ups in American politics. Survival

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Speaker 2: of the Richest, How the corruption of the marketplace and

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Speaker 2: the disparity of wealth created the greatest conspiracy of all

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Speaker 2: crimes and cover ups in American politics seventeen seventy six

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Speaker 2: to nineteen sixty three. Bullyocracy, How the social hierarchy enables

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Speaker 2: bullying in schools, workplaces, in society at large. On Borrowed Fame, money,

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Speaker 2: mysteries and corruption in the entertainment world. Masking the Truth

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Speaker 2: How COVID nineteen destroyed civil liberties and shutdown the world.

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Speaker 2: And From Strawberry Fields to Abbey Road, A Billy Shear's Story.

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Speaker 2: Don writes regularly for the American Free Press and on Substack.

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Speaker 2: The Donald Jeffrey Show airs every war Wednesday from six

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Speaker 2: to eight pm Eastern on o'celly dot com and I

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Speaker 2: protest live streams on Fridays from five to seven pm

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Speaker 2: Eastern at Rockfinn dot com. William Matson Law has written

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Speaker 2: for the research periodicals The Kennedy Assassination Chronicles and The

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Speaker 2: Daily Plaza Echo, and is a producer of the forthcoming

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Speaker 2: film The Gathering, and currently serves as a consultant to

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Speaker 2: the film director Brian McKenna for his upcoming documentary Killing Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: He's the author of In the Eye of History, Disclosures

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Speaker 2: in the JFK Assassination Medical Evidence. Law has co authored

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Speaker 2: the Book's Betrayal, a JFK honor Guard speaks with Hugh

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Speaker 2: Clark and At the Cold Shoulder of History, the chilling

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Speaker 2: story of a twenty one year old Navy hospital corman

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Speaker 2: who stood at the shoulder of JFK during the Bethesda

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Speaker 2: autopsy with James Jenkins. William Matson Law and Don Jeffries

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Speaker 2: are co authors of Pipe the Bimbo in Red Dean Andrews,

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Speaker 2: Jim Garrison and The Conspiracy to Kill JFK. Don Jeffries,

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Speaker 2: William matts In Law, Welcome to Coast to Coast how

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Speaker 2: are you.

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Speaker 3: Good having us?

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Speaker 2: Good to be with you, great to have you? Anyone

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Speaker 2: can take any of these questions and just jump right in.

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Speaker 2: But let's start with the title, Pipe the bimbo in Red?

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Speaker 2: Can you either of you explain that.

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Speaker 3: That's William, that's William's title?

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Speaker 4: Good, explain it, Waimams the bimbo in Red comes from

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Speaker 4: the famous lunch scene between Dean Andrews and Jim Garrison

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Speaker 4: in the movie JFK, where the scene opens and they're

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Speaker 4: in the restaurant, and Andrews says, pipe the bimbo in

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Speaker 4: red and Garrison says, yeah, he's cute you, you know,

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Speaker 4: but not half as cute as you are, and then

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Speaker 4: it goes into a discussion about his Warren Commission testimony.

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Speaker 4: It's a classic scene and it's my favorite in the movie. So,

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Speaker 4: considering that this book was basically about Dean Andrews and

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Speaker 4: Jim Garrison, I thought it was appropriate.

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Speaker 2: And so Dean Andrews, as I mentioned in the opening

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Speaker 2: of the of the show, kind of used this antiquated

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Speaker 2: kind of bebop jive talk. Was is that an accurate portrayal?

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Speaker 2: Was was that the way was Dean Andrews that sort

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Speaker 2: of colorful, flamboyant.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 4: When I talked to his son, Dean Andrews II, I

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Speaker 4: asked him about that particular thing, and he said he

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Speaker 4: thought John Candy was pretty good. And he said he

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Speaker 4: got the he got the lingo down down right, like

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Speaker 4: the right tata, but the wrong ho ho. He said

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Speaker 4: he did really good with the language. And he said

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Speaker 4: his father did use that kind of language when he

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Speaker 4: was hanging out with those sort of people, but when

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Speaker 4: he was hanging out with other types of professionals and

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Speaker 4: things like that, he you know, knew the proper language

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Speaker 4: to use. But that was definitely part of his character.

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Speaker 2: In the opening, again, I gave just kind of a

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Speaker 2: quick summary of what Dean Andrews told the FBI, what

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Speaker 2: he told the Warren Commission. I don't know, don if

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Speaker 2: you want to take this one, just kind of back

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Speaker 2: up and let's walk us through this again, just so

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Speaker 2: that we understand the significance of Dean Andrews' testimony to

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Speaker 2: the FBI, the Warren Commission, and later during the Garrison trial.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, well. The first of all, the inspiration for

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Speaker 3: the book came from my friendship with Dean Andrews. The

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Speaker 3: third who is Dean Andrews or the bat Nickle and

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Speaker 3: her son and he was actually my brother's best friend.

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Speaker 3: So I came to know him through the Dean was

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Speaker 3: over our house quabe known for over twenty years. He

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Speaker 3: was here for many family gatherings and I got to

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Speaker 3: meet his what his mom is still alive. She I

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Speaker 3: was the first researcher she talked to ever because she,

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Speaker 3: you know, their life was disrupted and so she you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of resented that and just thought her husband was crazy.

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Speaker 3: But you know, Dean Andrews Junior was the impetus really

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Speaker 3: for after Russell Long in the scene from JFK where

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Speaker 3: Walder Mathow plays Russell along and talks about Maggie's drawers

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Speaker 3: and gets Garrison interested in the assassination again by telling

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Speaker 3: them the Warren Commission is a load of crap. And

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Speaker 3: he one of the first things that really caught his

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Speaker 3: interest when he got the twenty six bunds of hearing

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Speaker 3: exibit's like a lot of us did, and started reading

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Speaker 3: the testimony. He knew Dean Andrews, Dean Andrews him friends,

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Speaker 3: and he saw his testimony. He just you know, he

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Speaker 3: had him keep it up with it. So when he

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Speaker 3: saw this and he I don't think he knew about

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Speaker 3: the call or anything like that, and he heard Dino's

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Speaker 3: Dean talking about you know, he was this this mysterious

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Speaker 3: phone call from a Clay Berkman. So that intrigued him.

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Speaker 3: And then you can see in the movie when he's

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Speaker 3: eating at lunch, eating lunch with him where the title

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Speaker 3: comes from. That's where he was first trying to dig

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Speaker 3: around and figure because he knew Andrews was the key here,

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Speaker 3: and also he was friends with him, so we you know,

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out why he got that call out.

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Speaker 3: You know, I personally, I don't know about whim, but

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Speaker 3: I personally believe you know, we call it the ground

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Speaker 3: level plot in New Orleans, but I think Andrews was

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Speaker 3: being manipulated for whatever reason. I think he was chosen

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Speaker 3: to be Oswald's lawyer. During the summer of sixty three.

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Speaker 3: He interacted with Oswald, and he interacted with all those

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Speaker 3: Cubans that were everywhere in that ground level plot. And

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Speaker 3: I think the Cubans are a distraction. To be honest

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Speaker 3: with you, I don't think you had anything to do

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Speaker 3: with assassination, but they were all around those characters. And

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Speaker 3: so you had David Ferry, you had you had Sergery

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Speaker 3: or Roches Smith, a lot of these Cubans, you had

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Speaker 3: Jack Martin, you had Guy Banister, all these people that

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Speaker 3: we talk about in the book. And I think Oswald

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Speaker 3: is obviously being groomed to be the patsy. And I

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Speaker 3: think why Garrison did that. He was told he was

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Speaker 3: in some kind of an undercover agent at THEI or CIA,

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Speaker 3: and he was told to infiltrate a plot that people

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Speaker 3: were planning to assassinate the president. I personally think they

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Speaker 3: probably all were being manipulated against each other. They might

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Speaker 3: have all been told the same thing, but that's how

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Speaker 3: he got set into there. And I think because Dean

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Speaker 3: Andrews has chosen whatever to be the lawyer for this stuff,

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Speaker 3: I think they picked him to make that call. I

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Speaker 3: can only speculate about why they made the call, because

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Speaker 3: presumably they were already planning to kill Oswald, so he

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have needed an attorney. But I think if Dean

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Speaker 3: Andrews is puzzled about it for the rest of his

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Speaker 3: life as we go into the book, especially through his

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Speaker 3: son he was, he really did pretty much go crazy,

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Speaker 3: became super paranoid. In real life, private life, he wasn't

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Speaker 3: like he told NBC, and you know, he lied and

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Speaker 3: was charged with perjur and everything because he wanted to

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Speaker 3: said he wanted to save his own neck, I like

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Speaker 3: to breathe is what he said, because he saw all

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Speaker 3: the other people that were that were being killed, dying mysteriously.

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Speaker 3: So he lied to save himself and his family. But

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Speaker 3: in private he believed there was a huge conspiracy and

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Speaker 3: he thought they were going to get him. And we

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Speaker 3: go into that a little bit in the bug.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So when you say he lied to save himself,

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Speaker 2: are you referring to the FBI claiming that he later

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Speaker 2: recanted and said that he made this whole story up

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Speaker 2: about getting a call from.

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Speaker 3: Clay Bertrand right, Well, I think what they tried to

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Speaker 3: do they basically planted that idea and just told him, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: you know you're on drugs. You know you could have

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Speaker 3: imagined this. And so you can see, you know we're

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Speaker 3: talking there. We had the progression of like the way

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Speaker 3: his stories changed, and people can judge for themselves that

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Speaker 3: you can see the process ongoing where they're telling him, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe imagine this you're on a lot of drugs,

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Speaker 3: you know, you weren't feeling well or whatever. And they

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Speaker 3: eventually got him to say that. But he had a

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Speaker 3: vested interest in that, and you can see it a

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Speaker 3: lot of his lawyers, I mean a lot of his

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Speaker 3: interviews that Harold Weisberg did, and we rely a lot

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Speaker 3: on Wiseburg's great work Oswald in New Orleans. He was

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Speaker 3: want to prot Garrison's first investigator. But you know, he

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Speaker 3: talked to all these people, and Andrews knew what was

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Speaker 3: going on. I am proved that he would say that.

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Speaker 3: But he's an important figure because he really got Jim

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Speaker 3: Garrison's attention on you know what became the only time,

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Speaker 3: the only press accution and the John F. Kennedy assassination

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Speaker 3: that ever took place. Was clay Show. I would go

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Speaker 3: to a lot in clay Shaw's background as well. In

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Speaker 3: clay Shaw, I don't think and Dean Dean the third

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Speaker 3: tell you know, they know in certain terms in the

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Speaker 3: book that yes, Dean clay Shaw was was Bergram, There's

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Speaker 3: no question about it. But if you look at Shaw's background,

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Speaker 3: I think Shaw was probably the connector the condoy between

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Speaker 3: the grand level of plot in New Orleans and the

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Speaker 3: real conspirators. I think he's because you look at his

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Speaker 3: background and this guy had connections going back to Operation

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Speaker 3: paper Glib in World War Two.

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Speaker 2: William, why do you or first of all, did Dean

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Speaker 2: Andrews ever have contact with Clay Bertrand slash clay Shaw?

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Speaker 2: Did he ever meet him face to face?

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Speaker 4: Well, according to Dean Andrews the Third, I think we've

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Speaker 4: solved the mystery about uh, Clay Bertrand being Clay Shaw.

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Speaker 4: I don't remember did we did we find out whether

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Speaker 4: or not he was You ever met him? I don't

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Speaker 4: think he ever did.

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Speaker 3: No, Dan the Third, I don't think he ever did.

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Speaker 3: But but he you know, he basically says, of course

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Speaker 3: he was the same person and Dean Junior, and he

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Speaker 3: gave there, you know, very wildly, you know, varying descriptions

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Speaker 3: of him. And clay Shaw was a tall man. At

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Speaker 3: one point he described him in short and uh so

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Speaker 3: again I think he was just playing games. But there's

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's no question. And Clay Shawn was the

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Speaker 3: famous scene in JFK where he officer Habngrse I think

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Speaker 3: his name was. When he was being booked, he gave

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Speaker 3: he asked him he had any a listens and he said,

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Speaker 3: Clay Bertrand. So they put that down on a sheet

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Speaker 3: and there's the famous scene in the movie where the

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Speaker 3: judge won't allow that in and Kevin Costner saying, what

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Speaker 3: are you talking about? That's you know, that's my case,

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Speaker 3: and he said, well, Jimbo, you should have a stronger

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Speaker 3: haze or something like that. And so there's no question

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Speaker 3: that was Clay Bertrand, and especially in the French quarter

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Speaker 3: and everything was he was known because he led that lifestyle,

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Speaker 3: and Garrison, to his credit, when they rated his very

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Speaker 3: impressive home on Dauphine Street, they found a lot of,

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Speaker 3: you know, really S and M type gay stuff. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of sexual things in there, and he purposely

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Speaker 3: kept that out of the newspapers. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: claimed he was trying to be sensationalistic, but he actually

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Speaker 3: downplayed that. But I don't think there's any question that

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Speaker 3: that Shaw was Bertrand. But whether to what degree, you know,

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Speaker 3: Dean would say in private that you know, he had

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Speaker 3: conversations Bertrand would just send him clients. And again that

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Speaker 3: plays into my personal theory that Dean was being used

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Speaker 3: as well because Bertrand again was probably the connection between

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Speaker 3: the conspirators, and so he was between them and the

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Speaker 3: Ron blah blah blat and the real conspirators, and he

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Speaker 3: was probably sending them these cubans. He said, I deal

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Speaker 3: with a lot of gay caballeros, and you know, he's

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Speaker 3: colorful language and Oswald. Now whether Oswald really needed was

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Speaker 3: really seeking help of the dishonorable discharge or his wife's

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Speaker 3: immigration status, I don't know that could. I personally think

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Speaker 3: it's probably part of whatever he was designed to do.

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Speaker 2: William, why do you suppose Dean Andrews is by and

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Speaker 2: large overlooked And as you say this, this ground level

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Speaker 2: plot in New Orleans, do you think it gets enough attention.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of people think that that Dean Andrews,

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Speaker 4: for whatever reason, the spun stories there. There are a

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Speaker 4: lot of people that don't like Garrison. They feel that

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Speaker 4: he was using this the Kennedy assassination two for his

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Speaker 4: own career. That I don't take that view at all.

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Speaker 4: I think Garrison was was an honorable man. And I

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Speaker 4: named one of my sons his middle name is Garrison.

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Speaker 4: That's the respect I have for him. You know, they

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Speaker 4: like to portray Dean Andrews as this jive talking lawyer,

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Speaker 4: and he was that to a certain extent, but that

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Speaker 4: was kind of like his persona in given situations. They

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Speaker 4: ignore him because people don't want to believe it, you know.

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Speaker 4: They they don't want to give Garrison the credit that

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Speaker 4: he's due, and they try to make Andrews part of that. Well,

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Speaker 4: he was just one of these crazy New Orleans guys.

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Speaker 4: I think that's why.

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Speaker 2: And did Garrison or Garrison and Dean Andrews. Did they

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Speaker 2: go to law school together?

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Speaker 3: They did.

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Speaker 4: That's how they met. Yeah, they knew each other from

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Speaker 4: a long ways back. They had had a friendship. That's

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Speaker 4: not that's what you know. We learned a lot about

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Speaker 4: that from Dean Andrews and the interviews I did with him,

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Speaker 4: Dean Andrews Junior. And I'm really proud of that because

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Speaker 4: in this book, it's the first time that Dean Andrews

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Speaker 4: Junior has come forward and was willing to talk about

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Speaker 4: what he knew. You know, when I first learned that

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Speaker 4: that gone knew Dean Andrews the third I couldn't believe

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Speaker 4: it. It was like, well, what are you doing about that? Well,

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Speaker 4: he's a he's a family friend. And I said, well,

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Speaker 4: I think that this ought to be explored more, and

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Speaker 4: so we did that. I mean, sometimes you get so

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Speaker 4: close to somebody that you don't see the significance of it.

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Speaker 4: They become not this person that is part of this

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Speaker 4: you know, historical event, but they become your friend, and

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Speaker 4: so you can lose side of how important that could be.

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Speaker 4: And I don't know that Don did that, but I

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Speaker 4: just think he was so comfortable with having Dean around

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Speaker 4: that he didn't really think too much about home. Well,

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Speaker 4: here's this person that can give us this information.

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