1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,640
Speaker 1: The Next Picture Show is presented by a regal unlimited

2
00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,160
Speaker 1: the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays

3
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,480
Speaker 1: for itself in just two visits. See any standard two

4
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 1: D movie anytime with no blockout dates or restrictions. You

5
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: can sign up now in the regal app or the

6
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: link in our show description and use next Pick twenty

7
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 1: six to receive fifteen percent off. That's ny xt pic

8
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 1: two six to receive fifteen percent off.

9
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,479
Speaker 2: This summer, serve up the cookout classics, Heinz, Ketchup and

10
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 2: Craft singles. Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly

11
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,840
Speaker 2: melty cheese and thick rich ketchup. We all know it's

12
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,879
Speaker 2: not a cookout without Heinz and Craft.

13
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 1: Hello, Next Picture Show listeners. Here's a friendly reminder that

14
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,400
Speaker 1: if you enjoy The Next Picture Show, you'll really enjoy

15
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,919
Speaker 1: getting more Next Picture Show. By subscribing to our Patreon,

16
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: you can unlock ad free versions of the podcast for

17
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: three dollars a month and get bonus episodes on current

18
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: TV movies we don't cover on the podcast and other

19
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 1: topics for five dollars a month. To subscribe to our Patreon,

20
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,039
Speaker 1: please visit patreon dot com slash next Picture Show. That's

21
00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

22
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 3: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

23
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,200
Speaker 1: And the press, who believe that someone out of the.

24
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 4: Past can enter and take possession of a living being.

25
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,959
Speaker 5: We may be through with the past, but the past

26
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,480
Speaker 5: is not through with us.

27
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next Picture Show. A Movie the Week

28
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: podcast to a classic film in the way it shaped

29
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Keith Phipps here.

30
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 6: With Genevievkaski in Scott Tobias.

31
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 1: Our regular co host, Tasha Robinson's currently being pursued across

32
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 1: state lines. We hope she's brought to justice soon. This week,

33
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,600
Speaker 1: we're discussing two movies about lovers on the lamb. One

34
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 1: pair is doomed to die before their movie ends. The

35
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: other doesn't really have to worry about that because they're

36
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 1: already dead, Which raises a question, are there any other

37
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: classic films that might lend themselves to this treatment? What

38
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 1: class film would you like to see rework to start

39
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 1: reanimated corpses.

40
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 4: This is a torture. This is a torture question for us.

41
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,880
Speaker 6: Keith, Keith, Scott and I were talking before you jumped

42
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,720
Speaker 6: off the call about how this is such a hard question.

43
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 6: So I am going to throw it back to you.

44
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 6: What's a classic film you would.

45
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 1: Like to see? A really stupid question to see what

46
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 1: you guys say. That's the entirety behind that. So well,

47
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 1: let's see. Let me see what I can do here.

48
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 4: What would I jump in? I can jump in?

49
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 1: Okay, it's kind you've got something. Let's let's hear it.

50
00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,640
Speaker 5: Because there's no way just to do this. This has

51
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 5: to be a joke answer. There's no straightforward answer that

52
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:39,800
Speaker 5: makes sense here. I think it would be kind of

53
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 5: funny to do a sort of an unrequited love story

54
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 5: with reanimated corpses, like in The Mood for Love, for example,

55
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 5: like just the Thing, where they just they're just around

56
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 5: all the time and still just buy whatever principle you know, uh,

57
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 5: not following through on their feelings for each other, just

58
00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:58,760
Speaker 5: for eternity.

59
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,079
Speaker 4: I think that would be that would be my choice.

60
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,519
Speaker 6: My joke answer that was put in mind of based

61
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 6: on the sort of theme of this pairing is Romeo

62
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 6: and Juliet, because then everything could have been avoided if

63
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,000
Speaker 6: they were already dead.

64
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,639
Speaker 1: Right, that's true, that's true, And there's Warm Bodies, which

65
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 1: is a zombie love story that came out about ten.

66
00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,800
Speaker 1: I was right, yeah, I was. You know, I actually

67
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,520
Speaker 1: had a great idea while I was thinking this, what

68
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 1: if they remade the Muppet movie but with taxidermy animals.

69
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 5: Oh god, that's Young's funk Myers the Muppets is.

70
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,920
Speaker 1: All right, this is only going to get sillier. So

71
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,920
Speaker 1: I'm glad we we card out space discussed is extremely

72
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 1: important issue. We should probably move on to the episode proper. However, Genevieve,

73
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 1: can you tell us about our current pairing?

74
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 6: Sure? For her second feature as writer and director, Maggie

75
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 6: gillen Hall decided to remake Bride of Frankenstein sort of

76
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 6: the Bride exclamation point, which starts Jesse Buckley as the

77
00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 6: eponymous character and Christian Bale as a love Lauren. Frankenstein's

78
00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 6: mons undeniably owes a debt to James Wales's nineteen thirty

79
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 6: three classic, which we previously covered on the show, paired

80
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 6: with twenty twenty three's Poor Things, but the Bride bears

81
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 6: the stamp of many other influences, everything from Cabaret and

82
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 6: Sid and Nancy to Young Frankenstein. We decided to focus

83
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 6: on one other major source of inspiration. However, the protagonists

84
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,120
Speaker 6: of The Bride spend a good portion of the film

85
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 6: on the run from the law in the nineteen thirties,

86
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 6: in scenes that often evoke Arthur Penn's nineteen sixty seven

87
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,680
Speaker 6: film Bonnie and Clyde, starring Lauren Batty as Clyde Barrow

88
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 6: and Faye Dunaway as Bonnie Parker, outlaws whose crimes spree

89
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 6: made them folks heroes in the Depression era.

90
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 1: So in this episode, we'll revisit Bonnie and Clyde, the

91
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 1: story it tells, the controversy it stirred, and their role

92
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 1: it played in ushery in the New Hollywood era. Then

93
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,919
Speaker 1: in our companion episode, we'll turn our attention to The

94
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: Bride before stitching the films together and shooting them full

95
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 1: of electricity, just to see what happens. Stay with us.

96
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 3: It's time to refresh your yard during spring back Yard

97
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 3: Days at the home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on

98
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 3: propane grills starting one hundred and seventy nine dollars like

99
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 3: the Next Grill three burner gas grill, or get fifty

100
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 3: dollars off of select Weber Spirit grill and bring big

101
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 3: flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton

102
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,920
Speaker 3: based dring lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring

103
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 3: Backyard Days for seven days at the hum Depot now

104
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,599
Speaker 3: through May sixth. Exclusions Plassy Homby but dot COM's last

105
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 3: price match for details.

106
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 7: Their pas crossed like two hot wires. They roared off

107
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,480
Speaker 7: on what might easily have been a wild romantic lark,

108
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,840
Speaker 7: but almost before they knew it, with the giggles still

109
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 7: in their ears, they had bloodied up for statement.

110
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 1: Not everyone was ready for Bonny and Clyde convinced they

111
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 1: had a dud on their hands. Warner Brothers put the

112
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,599
Speaker 1: film in a limitary release after first premier at the

113
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 1: International Film Festival of Montreal in August nineteen sixty seven.

114
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: They might have been spoofed by one earlier review that

115
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 1: came out of the festival, in particular, under the headline

116
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,919
Speaker 1: shoot Him Up. Film opened world fet Long serving New

117
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: York Times critic Bosley Crowther launched an attack on a

118
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 1: film he accused of being quote assembled in a helter

119
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 1: skelter fashion and played at an erratic breakneck speed that

120
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 1: oftentimes gives the brash succession of hold ups shootings and

121
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,479
Speaker 1: getaway chases in old fashioned automobiles, the appearance of a

122
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 1: mac senate slapstick comedy. It whips through the saga of

123
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,800
Speaker 1: the cheap Jack bandits as though it were funny instead

124
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 1: of sordid and grim, and it ends with a fast

125
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,479
Speaker 1: switch an explosion of shooting and killing when the criminals

126
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 1: are trapped by the police. It was the first of

127
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 1: three negative pieces Crowther would publish about the film in

128
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. He wasn't alone in his disdain. Newsweek's

129
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,599
Speaker 1: Joe Morgenstern, for instance, trash the film then retracted his review,

130
00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 1: calling it quote grossly unfair and regrettably inaccurate. But Crowther

131
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,479
Speaker 1: was the loudest voice with the biggest platform, and his

132
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 1: review was still sticking in star Warren Brady's craw when

133
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 1: Roger Ebert profiled him in London that October. What really hurts,

134
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 1: Batty told Ebert is that one lousy review. Still early

135
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: in his career as a critic, Ebert was a Body

136
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,040
Speaker 1: and Clyde champion. So was Pauline Kale, whose Raptures review

137
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 1: helped earn her a full time position at The New Yorker.

138
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 1: The New York Times would replace Crowther in early nineteen

139
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: sixty eight. Ebert and Kale would go on to be

140
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 1: the two most influential critics of the decades that followed.

141
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 1: Watershed moments are rarely this easy to see. But here's

142
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: the thing. Even if crowd There's opinion of Body and

143
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,920
Speaker 1: Clyde is wrong, his description isn't. The film's tone does

144
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 1: shift on a dime, as in an early scene where

145
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 1: a comic escape takes a sudden, graphically bloody turn. The

146
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 1: film does play grimnis for laughs and uses comedy to

147
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 1: set up tragedy. Body and Clyde never seem happier or

148
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 1: more in love than in the moments before their death.

149
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why Batty was so annoyed. Here's Beatty again.

150
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,200
Speaker 1: There are several scenes, he further explained to Ebert, in

151
00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: which we carefully develop one emotion in the audience, and

152
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,000
Speaker 1: then zing, we cut very fast to the opposite emotion.

153
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 1: Anyone expecting a movie that played by the usual rules

154
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: could get whiplash, and that was sort of the point.

155
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,640
Speaker 1: The film began as a screenplay co written by the

156
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,200
Speaker 1: team of David Newman and Robert Benton, working under the

157
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: influence of the French New Wave. Later they'd bring the

158
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,280
Speaker 1: project to Francoa. Truffaux, who made some contributions, and John Lucudard, who,

159
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 1: if the stories are true, came this close to directing it,

160
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: but left the project after others bought at his preference

161
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 1: for shooting the film in New Jersey. In The Winner.

162
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 1: In time, it went land with Warren Batty, who initially

163
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,120
Speaker 1: planned only to produce. He brought in director Arthur Penn.

164
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 1: Pend and Batty had already made one New Wave influence

165
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 1: film together at nineteen sixty five's Mickey One. The stars

166
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,559
Speaker 1: aligned behind a second effort, particularly once the team found

167
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 1: emerging start Fade den Away to play Bonnie to Batty's Clyde.

168
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,559
Speaker 1: The violence that shocked Body and Clyde's first audiences might

169
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 1: now seem familiar, even tame. But even if you're not

170
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: expecting a movie that plays by the usual rules, you

171
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: can still get whiplash watching it. Baty plays Clyde as

172
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,320
Speaker 1: a goofball, ill equipped to deal with how the world works,

173
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: who only finds success in crime, and then, as much

174
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,559
Speaker 1: by chance as by luck, done it with. Bonnie is

175
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: a bored small town waitress looking for a seemingly any

176
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 1: escape who sees in Clyde a kind of bad boy

177
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,920
Speaker 1: night in shining armor, then does her best to look

178
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 1: past all the ways he doesn't live up to that image.

179
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,959
Speaker 1: It's a funny film, never more than in the mid

180
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 1: film sequence in which Bonnie Clyde Clyde's brother Buck played

181
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 1: by Gene Hackman, and Buck's wife Blanche played by Estelle Evans,

182
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 1: who wonted Best Supporting Actress Award for her efforts, kind

183
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,319
Speaker 1: of sort of kidnap a couple played by Geene Wilder

184
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,400
Speaker 1: and Evans Evans and show them a good time until

185
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,319
Speaker 1: that is learning that Wilder's character is an undertaker. It's

186
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,320
Speaker 1: as if they knew that their story was always headed

187
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,720
Speaker 1: toward death and wanted to forestall the inevitable, but the

188
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 1: film keeps pushing them there anyway. A reunion with Bonnie's

189
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,119
Speaker 1: mother is ominously shot by cinematographer Brenette Guffey to emphasize

190
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,080
Speaker 1: the hazy heat of a summer's day, a choice. It

191
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: gives the moment an ominous otherworldly feeling. When death does arrive,

192
00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 1: it arrives quickly, bringing down the heroes in a shaf

193
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 1: bullets a moment edited for maximum impact by Ddie Allen,

194
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,880
Speaker 1: and then it's over. The film's mad kept spirit annihilate

195
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,960
Speaker 1: it by the force of authority. Bonnie and Clyde have

196
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 1: spent the film antagonizing. Were they heroes? Fools? Villains? Another

197
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 1: sort of film might have provided a clear answer, But

198
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 1: this one, like many subsequent films that would inspire and

199
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 1: for which its success paid the way. Let the questions linger.

200
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 1: We'll be about to talk it over after the break.

201
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,840
Speaker 1: The Next Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited. The

202
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,840
Speaker 1: all you can watch movie subscription pays for itself in

203
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,800
Speaker 1: just two visits. You know, at some point we realized

204
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,360
Speaker 1: that the very concept of The Next Picture Show might

205
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,079
Speaker 1: have a high barrier of entry for some listeners. To watch.

206
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 1: Everything we discuss as new episodes appear involves, you know,

207
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,480
Speaker 1: two trips to the movie theater. That's a sizeable chunk

208
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,840
Speaker 1: of time and money. We can't help you with time management.

209
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 1: That's you're on your own there, but we can help

210
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 1: you save some money. Right now, Regal is offering Next

211
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 1: Picture Show listeners a chance to see not just the

212
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,079
Speaker 1: two new movies we cover each month, but much much more.

213
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 1: When you sign up for Regal Unlimited. Using next pick

214
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: two six, you'll get fifteen percent off and all you

215
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,120
Speaker 1: can watch movie pass with no blackout dates or restrictions,

216
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,080
Speaker 1: plus ten percent off all non alcoholic concessions. Again, that

217
00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,560
Speaker 1: pays for itself with just two trips to the movies

218
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 1: at least. When it comes to ticket prices, your concession

219
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 1: budget is a problem you'll just have to work out

220
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 1: for yourself. Now, how do you sign up? It's simple.

221
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 1: Just open the Regal app or follow the link in

222
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,040
Speaker 1: this episode subscription and use next pick twenty six to

223
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,080
Speaker 1: receive your discount. More movies for less money. What's better

224
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:46,400
Speaker 1: than that?

225
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 6: What's it?

226
00:11:48,120 --> 00:12:01,079
Speaker 7: Back? Put your man in prison now? Armed robbery?

227
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,679
Speaker 6: It ain't like anything.

228
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 3: She find knew you never Robert Clay's faker.

229
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: Okay, welcome back. So I described a little bit about

230
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 1: the controversy around Body and Clyde, particularly as it was

231
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160
Speaker 1: met by the film for a community. Does that controversy

232
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 1: make sense watching it now?

233
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 4: If you know the context? It sure does? Okay.

234
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 5: Like I mean, you know, because we were all born

235
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 5: and raised in a post Bonnie and Clyde era, and

236
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 5: you know, then watched films in which a lot of

237
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 5: things that were once impermissible are now permissible. We have

238
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 5: to know the context for which Bonnie and Clyde came out.

239
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,560
Speaker 5: So I think for me, it was really about just

240
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 5: watching a lot of a lot of movies, including Bonnie

241
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,360
Speaker 5: and Clyde, including a lot of gangster films and crime

242
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,280
Speaker 5: films that came before it, and really kind of understanding

243
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,959
Speaker 5: the impact or imagining the impact of film like that

244
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 5: might might have had, because it really is a major

245
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,199
Speaker 5: turning of the page for Hollywood that you know, sort

246
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,080
Speaker 5: of then and now in terms of its in terms

247
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,040
Speaker 5: of its style, in terms of its attitude about criminality,

248
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 5: in terms of its sexuality, and all of all of

249
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:13,319
Speaker 5: the issues around that.

250
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 4: It's morality, you know.

251
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,040
Speaker 5: And presages a lot of you know, some of the

252
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 5: other kind of major movies of the sixties that you

253
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,560
Speaker 5: think about as being kind of page turners, like The

254
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 5: Graduate or you know, The Wild Bunch, for example.

255
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 6: I think the ways in which it was kind of

256
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 6: pushing film forward are expectations of film forward. The controversy

257
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,080
Speaker 6: around that was probably kind of exacerbated by the like

258
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,760
Speaker 6: odd tone of this film, or just like how many

259
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,199
Speaker 6: tonal shifts it has, Like where can it's like overtly

260
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 6: comedic but also really violent for the time, and they

261
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 6: can like kind of shift on a dime between those

262
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 6: qualities and really dramatic. There's a romance element, of course,

263
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,440
Speaker 6: and I think, like, you know, if you are not

264
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 6: responding to those shifts, I think it can sort of

265
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 6: like exacerbate the feeling of like this is bad, you know.

266
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,240
Speaker 6: And I think this is like maybe an idea that

267
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 6: will come up in the second film of this pairing

268
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,680
Speaker 6: as well. And I know that Bondy and Clyde's like

269
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,560
Speaker 6: kind of tone, or at least as it's expressed through

270
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 6: like editing and pace, is you know, very influenced by

271
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 6: French New Wave, which I am not that well versed in,

272
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 6: but I you know, kind of gathered that that influence

273
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 6: was very apparent here, so and I think maybe just

274
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 6: for audiences who weren't either well versed in or responding

275
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 6: to that approach, it maybe made certain elements of the

276
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 6: film feel icky, you know, when in hindsight, like that's

277
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 6: all just kind of been absorbed into kind of our

278
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 6: understanding of the era of film, so it doesn't so

279
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 6: it feels like correct now, but maybe at the time

280
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 6: it felt incorrect.

281
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 5: It's almost funny to me to think about the relationship

282
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 5: between Bonnie and Clyde and the French New Wave, just

283
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 5: because if you think about how the French were sort

284
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 5: of a step ahead of us in kind of deconstructing

285
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 5: and moving moving our own cinema forward, right. I mean like,

286
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 5: if you look at some of those early good Dard films,

287
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,640
Speaker 5: you look at a film like You's the Piano Player.

288
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 5: They're taking so much influence from this type of movie,

289
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 5: which is very much an American movie, and putting all

290
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 5: of this sort of spin on the ball. And I

291
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,280
Speaker 5: feel like Bonnie and Clyde is almost an effort to

292
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,720
Speaker 5: play catch up, you know, and to try to finally

293
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 5: have an American film that is going to reckon with

294
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,400
Speaker 5: this very American story, and it's in it's in its

295
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 5: own way, and I think it does so well. I

296
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 5: just I think the film is still so exhilarating to watch,

297
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 5: just so lively and forward.

298
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 4: Thinking, even even now. I had quite quite a bit

299
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 4: of fun watching it.

300
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: Again, if you look at Mickey One, which is a

301
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,560
Speaker 1: movie that Beatty and Arthur Penn made together two years earlier,

302
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,880
Speaker 1: it's even more new imitative of the New Wave this

303
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: feels like it's like absorbing the new wave and repurposing

304
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 1: some of the ideas for a Hollywood movie. Where's that is? Actually,

305
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, if a good dark shot a movie in

306
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: Chicago about a stand up comedian on the run from

307
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 1: the mob, it would pretty look a lot like Arthur

308
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 1: Penn's Mickey you One. You know. So it's kind of interesting.

309
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 1: It's also interesting how quickly new wave influences get absorbed

310
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 1: after this, because if you look at Love Story, which

311
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 1: came out in nineteen seventy, not a great movie and

312
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 1: definitely not a profound movie, but stylistically it owes an

313
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 1: awful lot to their French New Wave. It just became

314
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 1: sort of like trendy to take the devices that are

315
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 1: kind of like being ushered in here.

316
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 5: That's part of it, right, I mean, like it being

317
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 5: hip to make a movie like this, you know, being

318
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 5: a style you know, is this movie was. This movie

319
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 5: was a smash, you know, and then it was absorbed.

320
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 5: You think about think about just even something like you know,

321
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 5: butch casting a Sun Dance Kid, which is, you know,

322
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 5: not an edgy film at all, but it has that

323
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 5: kind of hypness to it. It's going for that it's

324
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,680
Speaker 5: trying to it's kind of commercializing this particular style.

325
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,119
Speaker 6: I came across an interesting article nineteen ninety seven in

326
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 6: the Los Angeles Times called Bonnie and Clyde and Joe

327
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,040
Speaker 6: and Pauline Keith did you but happened to come across

328
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 6: this and you're so. It's sort of like a like

329
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 6: a mini oral history of the early critical reactions, and

330
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,399
Speaker 6: it's specifically kind of about Joe morgan Stern changing his

331
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 6: review for Newsweek and sort of.

332
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 1: Wild, right, But yeah, it's just a retraction one week later,

333
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: like no, it's actually good.

334
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, And this I would highly recommend checking out this

335
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 6: article again. It's called Bonnie and Clyde and Joe and

336
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 6: Pauline by Patrick Goldstein from nineteen ninety seven. But as

337
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 6: I said, it's kind of like a little oral history,

338
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 6: and it talks to Penn and Baty and various other

339
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 6: people involved in the film. And there's an interesting quote

340
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 6: from Beatty where he says there were no bad reviews

341
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,400
Speaker 6: in London or Paris, not because they saw the film

342
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 6: in a different way, but because they saw America in

343
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 6: a different way. Our movie said something about violence in America.

344
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,160
Speaker 6: The people were disturbed about but didn't want to deal

345
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,560
Speaker 6: with so instead they complain about the size of our

346
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 6: dollar bills. And that is a reference to Time Magazine

347
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 6: sort of dragging the film for historical inaccuracy, for using

348
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 6: like the wrong money for the era, you know, which

349
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 6: to kind of go back to the idea of how

350
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 6: does a controversy play now? That just made me laugh

351
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 6: because that's the kind of thing that people still kind

352
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 6: of get hung up on, you know, with historical movies today.

353
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,360
Speaker 6: And Penn actually also in this article responds like Time

354
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 6: magazine said, we use money from the wrong era. It's true.

355
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 6: When we were shooting the first robbery scene, we didn't

356
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 6: have the right bills, and I said, to hell with it,

357
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,680
Speaker 6: let's just shoot it. Who's going to care?

358
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,879
Speaker 5: While Time cared, I have to say I was not

359
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 5: distracted by that element. Did did this go around or

360
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 5: any go around?

361
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 6: Yeah? But if you were coming into it with a

362
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 6: Crowtherian perspective on the film, sure, you know, I could

363
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 6: understand why that would be something you might harp on

364
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,479
Speaker 6: as a you know, indicative of the film's quality as that.

365
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm still mad about Man on the Moon having

366
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: a scene set in nineteen seventy nine when you could

367
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: see a miss pac Man machine in the background.

368
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 6: Just right off that entire movie, right.

369
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

370
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 5: The thing that threw me off about the bank robberies

371
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 5: and Bonnie and Clyde, just period wise, is that the

372
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 5: money doesn't is it in those sacks with the dollar

373
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 5: bills on the outside, Like what where's the where's the

374
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 5: historic lacacy.

375
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 4: On that.

376
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 6: Wearing Hamburglar masks they were doing this.

377
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 5: Which is like, of course they were recognized, right, of

378
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 5: course they were spotted with all those Hamburgler masks.

379
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: We should maybe back up a little, like how does

380
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: play for you? Like for everybody? I hadn't seen it

381
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 1: in a few I hadn't seen it, you know, we

382
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: got to keep going down this road. I hadn't seen

383
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,440
Speaker 1: it in a few years. And it's this movie is

384
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: just always so disarmingly lively to me. I always forget

385
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 1: just how how fun it is, and I misremember where

386
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: things are because I remember that picnic scene, which I

387
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 1: find so haunting. Being really close to the end of

388
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: the movie. There's still a lot of if you left

389
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: at that point too, but it is kind of beginning

390
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: of their downward slope, I guess. But I still don't

391
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: even know what to make of these characters. I mean,

392
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,959
Speaker 1: are are they dope? So are the are they kind

393
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: of romantic? So it's really it doesn't let you settle

394
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: your thoughts on either the story it's telling or the

395
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: people involved in it.

396
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 6: It doesn't give us a lot of interiority of any

397
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 6: of the characters, which you know, means you kind of

398
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 6: have to rely a lot on the performances to bring

399
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 6: that across, and luckily, you know, the performances here mostly

400
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 6: do that. Just to that first shot of Faye dunawake

401
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 6: like on her bed, kind of clasping the bars of

402
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 6: her bed, like, it's a great shot to begin with,

403
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 6: just sort of like this, you know, allusion to a

404
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 6: cage or a prison cell, however you want to interpret

405
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 6: that framing, but also just kind of the look on

406
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 6: her face. It kind of it expresses everything you need

407
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 6: to know about Bonnie's kind of feelings about her life

408
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 6: at this point that would inspire her to throw in

409
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 6: with Clyde based on very little, you know, like based

410
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 6: on one conversation.

411
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: You can say though based also on Clyde looking like

412
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: Warren Batty's yeah, definitely plays a role.

413
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 5: I mean, or even more particular than that. I think

414
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 5: it's about, you know.

415
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 4: The erotic charge of guns and crime.

416
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 5: I mean it really is like that is really that yeah,

417
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 5: that sort of primal, you know, I mean that the

418
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 5: sequence you're referring to with sort of Bonnie's introduction in

419
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 5: that room, I mean, it's so, it's so it has

420
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 5: such a massive erotic charge. And of course, you know,

421
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 5: having that image of her, you know behind you know,

422
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 5: a bedframe that looks like you know, prison bars or anything,

423
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 5: I mean really hammers that point home plenty with Warren Beatty.

424
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 5: I mean, here's this opportunity for her to kind of

425
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 5: get out and do things that are wrong but are

426
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 5: that are exciting, you know, and I think you kind

427
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 5: of see that a little bit, you know, in later

428
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 5: film like bad Lands and bad Lands of course to

429
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 5: see SpaceX character is a lot more passive, but there

430
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 5: is sort of that sense of boredom and craving for adventure.

431
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 5: And then you know, specifically for Bonnie, there's this erotic

432
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 5: sort of desire that is really propelling her actions.

433
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 4: And that of course is then you know.

434
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 5: Not you know, satisfied by Clyde, who is you know,

435
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 5: not a lover boy by stretch. So I mean that's

436
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 5: that's kind of like, I mean, that's not even that's

437
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 5: barely subtext. I mean that really feels like the sexual

438
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 5: aspect of this is sort of like the text. I mean,

439
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 5: that's kind of like what accounts for this relationship in

440
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 5: my opinion.

441
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, for him, it ends with the crime and the mayhem,

442
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: and she wants more. I think that whole arc of

443
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: their relationship is pretty curious and compelling. And and the

444
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: fact that you know, he finally gets together lover boy

445
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: wise right before they're killed, is into an extra layer tragedy.

446
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: I guess to this.

447
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 6: Film and speaking to the like allure of crime and

448
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 6: sex that they kind of represent a kind of thinking

449
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 6: back to your first question about you know, does a

450
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 6: controversy around it at the time make sense. I think

451
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 6: Bonnie and Clyde as characters as they're presented here being

452
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 6: they're not strictly anonymous, because obviously they're based on real

453
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 6: people and they have names, But in terms of their characterization,

454
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 6: there's a feeling like they could be just any two kids.

455
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 6: There's sort of a they don't have any sort of

456
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 6: specificity to their backstory other than Clyde doing a little

457
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 6: bit of time that makes it feel like, well, this

458
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 6: couldn't happen to my child, you know. So I think

459
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 6: there may have been a little bit of panic, as

460
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 6: youth panic, as there often is around controversial films in

461
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 6: controversial times, you know, of sort of the idea that

462
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 6: young audiences would see something alluring in Bonnie and Clyde

463
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 6: and in their relationship and the things that they do.

464
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 4: And I think there's something so unbound about familiar yet

465
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 4: unbound about Bonnie and Clyde, because I think, you know,

466
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: if you look towards films like it in the past,

467
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 4: and there's one that I'm going to reserve I think

468
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 4: for your next picture show called gun Crazy. You know,

469
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 4: there is.

470
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 5: Definitely immoral appeal to these movies, and yet the movies

471
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 5: themselves were restricted by whatever codes were in place, or

472
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 5: by whatever moral requirements were in place to kind of

473
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 5: bottle up a little bit some of these tensions that

474
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 5: that I think were worth they allure of these films

475
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 5: to audiences. And so there's something so kind of exciting

476
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 5: and advanced and then and new Hollywood about a movie

477
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 5: that takes all of those restrictions away, and also it

478
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 5: makes you feel feel a little bit for the these

479
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 5: two is in their romance, is that it develops, and

480
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 5: and maybe a little bit of melancholy in the way

481
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 5: that that that relationship comes to a bloody and horrifying end.

482
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 5: All of that stuff would be like, you know, in

483
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 5: the past, it would be unacceptable to allow the audience

484
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 5: to have those feelings and to allow a narrative to

485
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 5: kind of, you know, go as far a feel as.

486
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 4: Bonnie and Clyde does. Morally speaking, you kind of touch

487
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 4: on the Scott.

488
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: But how does this movie feel about these characters, because

489
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: it almost like, in some ways kind of treats them

490
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: as childlike, I mean, for one of a better word, innocents.

491
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: So they just kind of like don't really know any better.

492
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: They do what they do. But the same thing that

493
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: makes them kind of the same childlike quality also makes

494
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: them unable to kind of grapple with the deaths they cause,

495
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: the murders they commit. There's a scene where the first

496
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: death we see, Clyde's shocked by it and you know,

497
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: it seems to wish it hadn't happened, But there's no

498
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: like real moral reckoning for that, either in his head

499
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: or in the movie.

500
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 5: No, I mean he's he's mostly frustrated that C. W.

501
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 5: Moss has screwed up the whole the getaway and you

502
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 5: know which resulted in which, to be fair, he definitely

503
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 5: did he did, he did he I mean congrets on

504
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 5: the on the he did a great job on the

505
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 5: parallel park job, very tight spot.

506
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 4: But you really don't want to just pulling out of

507
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: a space.

508
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 5: Like that not ideal for a getaway, so that you

509
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 5: know that you got to hang that one on CW.

510
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 4: Moss for sure, But I'm not sure, like you know.

511
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the thing that's so.

512
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 5: Interesting and discomforting about the movie in terms of its attitude,

513
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 5: because I don't think it has you know, I mean,

514
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 5: maybe it's something that it's something again we're familiar with

515
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 5: now when we see anti heroes, you know, you know,

516
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 5: in film and TV or whatever. We're fascinated by whatever

517
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 5: it is that Tony Soprano or Walter White, does you

518
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 5: know and which which if we were to, you know,

519
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 5: look at it through the vantage of you know, say

520
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 5: a victim or you know or even like you know,

521
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 5: a headline or something in real life, you'd say these

522
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 5: these are repugnant human beings. These are terrible, terrible people.

523
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 5: But when you're writing Shotgun with these characters, it kind

524
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 5: of warps your perspective and you start to kind of,

525
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 5: you know, feel the way that they feel. You feel

526
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 5: like they're you know, you want them to try to

527
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 5: get to get away. You want them to try to

528
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 5: extend this adventure for as long as possible and then

529
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 5: maybe maybe hopefully later you start to think about why, you.

530
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 4: Start to question yourself for having those feelings.

531
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 5: But that's part of what makes Money and Clyde sort

532
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 5: of a little bit, a little bit dangerous, a little

533
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 5: bit you know, unusual when compared to what films were

534
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 5: doing for half a century before.

535
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 6: I think, what makes that first kill when Clyde shoots

536
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 6: the bank teller in the face kind of accidentally, But

537
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 6: I think what makes it, you know, hit so hard

538
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 6: for the audience as well as him, is like sort

539
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 6: of the accidental nature of it, but also the ineptitude

540
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 6: that they have shown as robbers up until this point,

541
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 6: like you know, robbing a bank that's already closed, you know,

542
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 6: in the comedic tone that you know as present, especially

543
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 6: in the first half of the film. You know, the

544
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 6: banjo getaway music kind of makes it all a little

545
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 6: farci And I think it's the hold up right before

546
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 6: that bank job gone wrong, where Clyde is attacked by

547
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 6: with the meat cleaver. The guy with the meat cleaver

548
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 6: sort of defending against the robbery, and Clyde is just

549
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 6: he's shocked. He's like, you know, he's saying like, I

550
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 6: didn't want to hurt him. I'm not against him. You know.

551
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 6: It sort of underlines the perception, especially at the beginning

552
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 6: of the film, that these are innocent crimes or justified crimes.

553
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 6: You know, we're in the middle of the depression, and

554
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 6: of course there's that scene of the shooting the bank

555
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 6: sign at the you know, the Forefost Farm, you know,

556
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 6: sort of like creating this us against the big guy mentality,

557
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 6: even though Clyde is holding up a grocer, like a

558
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 6: local grocer. So you can definitely find holes in that philosophy.

559
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 6: But I feel like both Clyde and the film kind

560
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 6: of present themselves as if they are doing this for

561
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 6: high minded reasons or sort of robin hood s, you know,

562
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 6: and any sort of violence that comes out of it

563
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 6: is unintentional, accidental. And when we get like an actual

564
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 6: death and a very violent death, you know, just a

565
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 6: point blake shot in the face, accidental or not. It

566
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 6: just takes away the comedy of that ineptitude, you know,

567
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 6: and it feels bad, you know, And suddenly the banjo

568
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 6: music feels like kind of ominous, you know, when they're

569
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 6: when they're getting away instead of funny. So and the

570
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 6: film kind of progresses in that manner where the crimes

571
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 6: and the chases and the consequences are getting more and

572
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 6: more serious as it goes on, and you can feel

573
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 6: it kind of getting away from Bonnie and Clyde and

574
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 6: kind of the whole Barrow gang, although I don't know,

575
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 6: Buck seems pretty all in through through the whole thing,

576
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 6: but there's this, yeah, that's true, but there's this sense

577
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 6: of it kind of like getting away from them, you know,

578
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 6: getting a little out of their control, but also them

579
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 6: being excited by that. So you don't quite you know,

580
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 6: your reaction to them is confused because kind of their

581
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 6: reaction to what's happening is confused.

582
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 5: It's kind of interesting to think about too, that the

583
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 5: piece of you talk about it sort of like as

584
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 5: a Robin Hood thing. I mean, but the fact that

585
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 5: they're in the Great Depression, and you do have that

586
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 5: scene at the farm where they're where they're shooting up

587
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 5: with the bank sign at a foreclosed.

588
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 4: Home and bringing in, you know, the men who.

589
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 5: Had worked that farm, and they're kind of excited to

590
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 5: have the opportunity to shoot it. But it is, you know,

591
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 5: and so I think there's kind of this natural sort

592
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 5: of populist element that you can potentially root for. But

593
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 5: as you say, you know, it's undermind so many different

594
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 5: times by greed and by violence, and it becomes kind

595
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 5: of another American diritation, which is fake populism, right where

596
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 5: you sort of where you sort of present yourself as

597
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 5: as a hero of the people, but the reality of

598
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 5: it is is much more venal and self serving and hypocritical.

599
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: If if indeed the intention is to present yourself as

600
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 5: someone who's taken it to the banks or whatever who

601
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 5: are ripping people off, that's not really what's happening.

602
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: He does love the one guy at the bank rob

603
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: keep his money when he when he makes it clear

604
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: that his money not the banks. There's like at least

605
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: like a little bit of of a tip to that.

606
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: But no, it's not like these people are redistributing wealth

607
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: across and across the land as they go. We should

608
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: talk about Buck and Blanche, who you know, the the

609
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: undercart I guess of the of the two couples here,

610
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: but I think I think pretty fun up to a

611
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: point supporting characters. I mean, as Tell Parsons, one best

612
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: supporting actress for Blanchet is and is such a is

613
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: a big fun performance. You can one that makes you really,

614
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta be on body side. Like just this,

615
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't be in the same room with that lady either.

616
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: You know.

617
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 5: She was not, as they say, built for this, This

618
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 5: is not really She's just temperamentally not well equipped to

619
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 5: do this sort.

620
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 6: Of thing, and yet she goes along with it, you know,

621
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 6: and as film progresses, while she's not exactly ever on board,

622
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 6: you can kind of see her increasing not increasing comfort,

623
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 6: but waning discomfort, I guess with the whole situation. Like

624
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 6: thinking about the scene with Gene Wilder and stealing the car,

625
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 6: and they're they're light hostage taking, you know, but like

626
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 6: that whole scene is like so jovial with an undercurrent

627
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 6: of danger, especially on the part of Gene Wilder and Evans.

628
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 6: Evans characters, but you know, even they are kind of

629
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 6: like pulled into the thrill of it for a bit.

630
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 5: And I just, I just I just love Gene Wilder

631
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 5: in this movie so much. He is, like, I mean,

632
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 5: there was a stretch of time where he was just

633
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 5: he had to be the funniest screen actor there was.

634
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: I mean, he was just he's so he's just perfect

635
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 4: in this movie.

636
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 5: And he was in Producers the same year doing kind

637
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 5: of the same sort of thing. But oh my god,

638
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 5: what a wonderful stretch. But sorry, that's just a distract.

639
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 5: I've just you mentioned Gene Wilder. I can't had to

640
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 5: had to give.

641
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 6: I mean, like, it's not exactly a one scene wonder

642
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 6: but it's pretty pretty close to it, you know, And

643
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 6: I think it's certainly a memorable scene in a film

644
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 6: that has a lot of memorable scenes.

645
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 4: So they drop him because he's a under undertaker.

646
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, And as I wanted to ask, like, what is

647
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 6: y'all's read on, Like Bonnie in particular, is just sort

648
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 6: of horror at him being an undertaker. Is it just

649
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 6: because like that's perceived as a creepy job to have,

650
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 6: or is there like another level to why that upsets

651
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 6: her so much.

652
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: I did just that.

653
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 5: I think it's just a bad luck to me, just

654
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 5: like that is not you know, when you're when you're

655
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 5: on the Lamb and you're being fired upon and pursued

656
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 5: by by every you know, authority in the Middle West

657
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 5: or whatever, you you don't want to have an actual

658
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 5: undertaker in the crew. I think that's probably plus it's man,

659
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 5: it's like it gets crowded.

660
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the thing too.

661
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 5: It's like, you know, all of this is like for Bond,

662
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 5: none of this is what she wanted to imagine from

663
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 5: the start. She didn't want her certainly or expect, you know,

664
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 5: Clyde to really not be able to satisfy her, and

665
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 5: you know, and and she didn't. She certainly didn't want

666
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: to take on the rest of the Barrel gang his brother,

667
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 5: and certainly not Blanche. And then and then you know C. W.

668
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 5: Moss comes on board. I guess she has she's not

669
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 5: too against c. W. Moss, but like, you know, this

670
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 5: is not what she so.

671
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 6: She can she can manipulate him in a way that

672
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 6: she can't Buck and Blanche, you know, totally, she's the

673
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 6: one who kind of brings him into it.

674
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 5: And I think this is this immediate dislike that she

675
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 5: has a Blanche, which you know, I get it.

676
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 4: It's like, but I think there's kind of a thing

677
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 4: thing with Blanche.

678
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 5: You're talking about her kind of going along at a

679
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 5: certain point, but I think it's I think there's a

680
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 5: Blanche might have a very kind of old fashioned notion

681
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 5: of womanhood and wife, you know, how a wife is

682
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 5: supposed to be. That really puts off Bonnie, who I

683
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 5: think is trying to reach towards something a little more

684
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 5: modern and uh, you know, you know, and so you know,

685
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 5: in addition to Blanche just being you know, annoying, I

686
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 5: think there's just a thing where they they're they're not

687
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 5: of the same kind of mind in terms of what

688
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 5: women can can do. Really I should do.

689
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.

690
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: I think part of what you're getting there with Scott

691
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: with body being a little more of a different era,

692
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: of a different mindset than Blanche, maybe kind of help helps

693
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: explain a little bit why this caught on with the

694
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: counterculture in particular. I was watching, you know, watching it

695
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: this time, I was I was looking at the scene

696
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: where they're like they're all like making making faces at

697
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: the squares and it just seems like a very exactly

698
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that that sort of a sixties

699
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: counterculture audience would latch onto and like like see themselves

700
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: reflected in that.

701
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 6: This isn't specific to the sixties counterculture, but just the

702
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 6: stuff of them taking pictures of themselves and like posing

703
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 6: like like I mean, god, that's something youths have done

704
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 6: and still do to this day, you know, sort of

705
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 6: playing and not quite play dress up, but you know,

706
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 6: just sort of like this young bravado. You know, we're

707
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 6: so interesting and we're going to document it, you know us, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

708
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 6: The photography element of this movie is really interesting because

709
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 6: it's it's based in fact, you know, and like those

710
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 6: there were photographs found in their hideout, but they weren't

711
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 6: like sending them in to papers the way the movie

712
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 6: portrays them, as you know. But the I feel like

713
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 6: the way the photographs are presented in this movie, both

714
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 6: the real ones and sort of the recreations, is maybe

715
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 6: tied to sort of like like they just look cool,

716
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 6: you know, like like it's almost like fashion photography, you know,

717
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 6: to to a certain extent, and there is that I

718
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 6: think there's a kind of innate appeal to that on

719
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 6: just an aesthetic level, Like I know this that kicked

720
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 6: off just a fashion trend to a certain degree. I

721
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 6: saw something about how Fade and Away pioneered the no

722
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 6: brazier look that was important to the counterculture, you know.

723
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 6: But I think just the surface appeal of it combined

724
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 6: with sort of the deep skepticism and cynicism toward the

725
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 6: greater world in your place in it and almost like

726
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 6: wording on nihilism, I think it's just something that was

727
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 6: very in the air at that moment and is rb

728
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 6: kind of always in the air when you're that age,

729
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 6: you know, your late teens, early twenties. So I think

730
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 6: it's a combination of like sexy visuals with the feeling

731
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 6: of you know, being fed up with the man just

732
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 6: was a really potent combination for that moment.

733
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're certainly not going to identify with I mean,

734
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 4: however ambivalent or feelings might be about Bonnie and Clyde,

735
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 4: we're certainly not going to identify with the people who

736
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 4: with the older people who track them down like Fryk

737
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 4: Hamer or you know, or you know CW. Moss's dad

738
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 4: who were.

739
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 5: Like you know, ends up ratting amount and setting up

740
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 5: this sort of trap. I mean, this is this is

741
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 5: these are guys who represent the past, who are certainly

742
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 5: squares and you know, whatever it is.

743
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 4: You know, however much you know Bunny and Clyde.

744
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 5: One of the sins they commit, one of them is

745
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 5: is uh, there's something, there's a rebellious spirit there that

746
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 5: is that that kind of carries them.

747
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 4: And carries just the fabric of the film.

748
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 5: I mean, just like if you just forget about the characters,

749
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 5: just think about the actual aesthetics of the movie.

750
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 4: And its use of violence.

751
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 5: It's the way it's cut together, the the you know,

752
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 5: the importing of of of a more liberated, your European style,

753
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 5: I mean that kind of stuff. You know, you may

754
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 5: not be able to point to it, but if you're

755
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 5: attracted the counterculture, but it is a feeling that you

756
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 5: have that you might have and might share and it

757
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 5: might adopt A film like this is you know, something

758
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 5: you identify with and something that kind of excites you,

759
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 5: and that is outside of the mainstream, even though you

760
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: know Warner Brothers put it.

761
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: Out and just more broadly, I mean it's kind of

762
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: where the nostalgia cycle was. I mean, I mean we're

763
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: sort of generally speaking, there's a lot of like sixties countercultures.

764
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like sort of gay nineties but

765
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: also like silent film era and and you know this

766
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: was this is just I would fit in there fairly.

767
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: You know, that's a general region fairly. Just think you know,

768
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: it's like just between sixty seven and like thirty the

769
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: early thirties is if we made a movie now said

770
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, that would be the time span.

771
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: It's like, it's all it's closer than you might think,

772
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 1: even though it seems like there's just a huge dividing

773
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: line between the sixties and the thirties.

774
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 5: Don't don't play it. Don't play that game, Keith, Yeah,

775
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 5: I know that the game. The game that is guaranteed

776
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 5: to make you feel it's incredibly old.

777
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 4: That old term, I mean.

778
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 6: Like thirty to forty years really is just sort of

779
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 6: the nostalgia, like the cultural nostalgia butter zone. Like right

780
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 6: right now we're living through a big like nineties, like

781
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 6: you know, you're the meme of the moment is you know, Dad,

782
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 6: what were you like in the nineties? And have you

783
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 6: guys This infiltrated to your guys' feed the way it was.

784
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 4: I can answer that question, though I know that answer that.

785
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 6: Really well, well, how you need to answer it, According

786
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 6: to the meme is a bunch of pictures of you

787
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 6: in the nineties scored to Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. No, no,

788
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 6: only Iris. So sick of hearing Iris. But like I

789
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 6: remember when I was like a teenager in the nineties,

790
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 6: like the sixties, were having a little moment, you know,

791
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 6: in the in the in the culture again, so this

792
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 6: this does kind of fit that that pattern generally.

793
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 5: It's funny you mentioned that meme because earlier this week

794
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 5: at a at a lightly attended college basketball tournament game,

795
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 5: a fan heckled a free throw shooter by singing the

796
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 5: course to Iris.

797
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 4: By the Goo Goo Dolls extremely loud.

798
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 5: And it was because the arena was, you know, mostly empty,

799
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 5: it was very much heard on the broad cast anyway.

800
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I see it's in the air.

801
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: I think we are strained from our topic at hand here,

802
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: which sign that you might want to wind this down

803
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: and bring a bath. We'll bring a Backdocks episode when

804
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: we repair it with the bride. We'll be back after

805
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: a short break. Four feedback.

806
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 8: I get so many headaches every month, it could be

807
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 8: chronic migraine. Fifteen or more headache days a month, each

808
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 8: lasting four hours or more. Botox on a botch of

809
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 8: line m toksin a prevents headaches and adults with chronic migraine.

810
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 8: It's not for those who have fourteen or fewer headache

811
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 8: days a month. Prescription botox is injected by your doctor.

812
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 8: Effects of botox may spread hours to weeks after injection,

813
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 8: causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away. Has difficulties swallowing, speaking, breathing,

814
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 8: eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a

815
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 8: life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection or

816
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 8: at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck

817
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 8: and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can

818
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 8: include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive botox

819
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 8: if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history.

820
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 8: Muscle or nerve conditions including als luke Errig's disease, Mayasthenia

821
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 8: gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications including botchelinum toxins

822
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 8: as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.

823
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: Why wait, ask your doctor, visit Botox Chronicmigraine dot com

824
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 3: or call one eight hundred four to four Botox to

825
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: learn more.

826
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: Now it's time for feedback, but before we get to

827
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: that section, we want to give a shout out to

828
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: Film Spotty. The next picture shows Mothership podcast hosted by

829
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: Adam Kempinar and Josh Larson. As we're recording this, they've

830
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: just released an episode visiting the Lord of the Rings trilogy,

831
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: their first surgery of which we'll turn twenty five years

832
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: old this year. Not to ty to read them of

833
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: that old game, but but do you have these strong

834
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: memories of watching I mean Fellowship of the Ring in particular,

835
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: but in any of the like what was going on

836
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: in your life? That's sort of like what does that

837
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: do the film start up?

838
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 4: That is that is so sick.

839
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 6: Well, I actually have a kind of a distinct memory

840
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 6: of this time, not just Fellowship of the Ring but

841
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 6: the whole trilogy because I was in college at the time.

842
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 6: The Fellowship came out in December two thousand and one,

843
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 6: and I started college in September two thousand and one.

844
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 6: Something else happened, So that was a fun time to

845
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 6: start college. But if you recall these movies, these three

846
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 6: movies were released at a very regular rate of December

847
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 6: one year after the other. So every year I came

848
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 6: home from college, you know, over winter break and would

849
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 6: see the new Lord of the Rings film. So that

850
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 6: was a nice like three year tradition, you know, with

851
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 6: my friends and family to see that. So yeah, it

852
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 6: was just a nice smart release pattern on their part

853
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 6: to kind of like have it come out at the

854
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 6: same time.

855
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: I've really consault with you about this.

856
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 6: Or no, But I wouldn't be surprised if there were,

857
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 6: you know, other people my age who did on those

858
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 6: films in the same way, specifically the theatrical experience of

859
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 6: those films, because you know, I've revisited them a lot

860
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 6: over the years. You know, my husband loves them, and

861
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 6: we've done marathons in the past. But you know, I

862
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 6: still have very like distinct memories of the excitement of

863
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 6: going to the theater to see each new film in

864
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 6: that trilogy.

865
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 4: You know.

866
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 5: All I remember, you know, back in two thousand and one,

867
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 5: I was a couple of years into being a writer

868
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 5: for the Audio Visual Club along with the Keith Phipps,

869
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 5: So we were we were in the mix. You know,

870
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 5: this is so it's upsetting the film is twenty five

871
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 5: years old now, though maybe maybe look at it the

872
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 5: other way. You know, we're still in the picture here

873
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 5: after after twenty five years plus, So that's that's that's cool.

874
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 5: But one thing, one thing that has sort of struck

875
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 5: me about the trilogy revisiting it particularly. You know, the

876
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 5: more and more I revisited over the years, the more

877
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 5: just blown away I am by them, just as they're

878
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 5: just such an incredible achievement and you know, just the storytelling,

879
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 5: the emotion, the score, because I think you've seen all

880
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 5: of these sort of franchises pop up in the twenty

881
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 5: first century. First century has been defined by the MCU,

882
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 5: has been defined by Star Wars, all of these big franchises.

883
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 5: But this is just on such another plane from all

884
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 5: of that stuff, in my opinion. And you know, the

885
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 5: more time passes, like, the more I feel like I appreciate,

886
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 5: you know, the scope of its achievement and how you know,

887
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 5: the pleasure they still sort of give you and watching them.

888
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 6: Which is which is your favorite of the three two towers?

889
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 4: I think, what about you? Yeah, but I don't know the.

890
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 5: First one Fellowship of the Rings has a lot that's

891
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 5: a heavy lift to try to kind of get that

892
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 5: thing off the ground, and it's it does the job.

893
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I think I put the Return

894
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 4: of the King in third. For sure.

895
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 5: It's all very satisfying as a whole. It's just that,

896
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 5: you know, just the Two Towers just has the advantage

897
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 5: of you know that Gollum stuff and the trees and

898
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 5: all that. The nts so they call it ens all

899
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 5: wonderful stuff, so it has you know, it gets the

900
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 5: benefit of all of the hard work. This happens on

901
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 5: TV all the time too. It's like you never get

902
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 5: you feel bad for the kind of first couple of

903
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 5: episodes or you know, set up episodes for a show,

904
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 5: and then everybody's like, you know, going crazy for the

905
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 5: penultimate episode or something where they really get to pay

906
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 5: everything off. It's like, well, you know, there's a lot

907
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 5: of craft involved in those early ones too, you know,

908
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 5: got to get to that point first.

909
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: I yeah, Two Towers is my pick too, but I

910
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: think they're all really good. Return of the King's has

911
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: some pretty obvious problems, including too many dings, But I

912
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: actually I really wish they'd done this covering of the

913
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: Shire sequence from from the book. I know that's a

914
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: whole other, like big chunk of movie, and I guess

915
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson doesn't even doesn't like it as as material,

916
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I think that stuffs. That stuff's

917
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: pretty good in the book, but I don't know what.

918
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: No one asked me to make it h So what

919
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 1: I was type for feedback where we read, our read

920
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: or listen to. Some of the responses we've gotten to

921
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: recent episodes are Help Swept Away Perry inspired a voicemail

922
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: from Bill Jennevieve, Can you play that?

923
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 6: Sure? But quick heads up to any listeners who haven't

924
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 6: seen Send Help yet, this does involve a big old spoiler,

925
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 6: so if you don't want to know, skip ahead thirty

926
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 6: seconds a few times.

927
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 9: Reading's next picture show. This is Bill Shunn calling from

928
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 9: New York City. I enjoyed Send Help, and I enjoyed

929
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 9: your discussion of it. But there's an aspect to Linda's

930
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 9: development as a monster that I don't think you've covered

931
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 9: on the show.

932
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: And there was.

933
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 9: Also a point where I absolutely lost sympathy for her.

934
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 9: That's the point where to get into spoiler territory. Bradley's

935
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 9: fiance shows up on the island along with a boat captain,

936
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 9: and Linda kills them so if she doesn't have to

937
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 9: leave the island, or to put that another way, that's

938
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 9: the point in the movie where a white woman kills

939
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 9: two people of color so she doesn't have to give

940
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 9: up any illusions about the way she is living. And

941
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 9: that's where Karen, I mean, Linda truly becomes a monster

942
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 9: and where I stop identifying with her or even being

943
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 9: on her side. From there, for me, the rest of

944
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 9: the movie is just a clash between two monsters on

945
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 9: a desert island. I'm curious to see who will win,

946
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 9: but not invested anymore in the outcome either way. I

947
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 9: don't know if the racial dynamic there was deliberate on

948
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 9: the part of the filmmakers, but it was definitely a

949
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 9: turning point for me.

950
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Bill makes a really good point here.

951
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 4: I kind of appreciated how.

952
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 5: How that was introduced to the movie in terms of

953
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 5: the way it's sort of challenged our sympathies with with

954
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 5: Linda slash Karen in terms of idea, because because you know,

955
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 5: she does do some truly monstrous things in order to

956
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 5: maintain what status quo, but stay on, stay on the island,

957
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 5: stay in control. And the film kind of lets us

958
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 5: sort of live with that, which I'm fine with, though

959
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 5: I'm curious, you know about I don't know, I mean,

960
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 5: how we I wonder how we're supposed to feel about it?

961
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 5: Are we, you know, and and are we supposed to

962
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 5: find her heroic ultimately? Oh?

963
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I No, I mean, I think

964
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: we kind of side with her because she's been the

965
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: underdog the whole movie. But I do think that scene

966
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: really does put her in a different light, in part

967
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: because the fiance Broadley's fiance, Zuri played by Edel Gimel.

968
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: It's really nice. I mean, she's just, you know, she

969
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: just set up as to be a very nice, concerned

970
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: character who doesn't deserve certainly doesn't deserve the fate she meets.

971
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 5: No No, And I think, I think when you get

972
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 5: to the to the end of the movie, too, what

973
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 5: has Linda really become there, you know, other than kind

974
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 5: of this version of this terrible person that that she's

975
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 5: dispatched on the island. But I get it, I mean,

976
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, it's it's an uncomfortable place to be.

977
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 5: But I kind of like that about the movie. I

978
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 5: like that it kind of shakes a know, kind of

979
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 5: messes with our sympathies a little bit, gets us to

980
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 5: question ourselves, gets us a question how we feel about Linda.

981
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 5: That's all kind of baked into the to the movie,

982
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 5: you know, in a positive way. Though maybe maybe that's

983
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 5: something that we failed to I don't remember the recording

984
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 5: the episode well enough to know if we got into

985
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 5: that or whether we talked about the episode about how

986
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 5: much we admired her and wanted to be like her

987
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 5: and do all the crazy stuff.

988
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 4: That you I think.

989
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,439
Speaker 1: Linda is awesome and does no wrong.

990
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 4: She's great, So I don't know.

991
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: We also received a letter from Ed in Philadelphia concerning

992
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: one particular aspect of Wuthering Heights. Scott, can you read

993
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: this one?

994
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 4: Sure?

995
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 5: Ed writes, I have a thing that I noticed, but

996
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 5: I don't have a reading of, and I don't see

997
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 5: anyone talking about We have all had some good fun

998
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 5: with the quote unquote skin room, and we call it

999
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 5: the skin room because well, Linton effectively does it does

1000
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 5: call it the skin room. However, in my admittedly soul

1001
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 5: viewing of the film, I seem to remember the headboard

1002
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 5: of the bed in the skin Room, featuring some shall

1003
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 5: we say, yanick imagery, one of several such uses throughout

1004
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 5: the film. My theater did crack up a bit at

1005
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 5: one of the entries in Isabella's scrap Book. So if

1006
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 5: the room is indeed representative of something about Kathy, what

1007
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 5: does this choice bring to bear? Or has my mind

1008
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 5: been pathetically and fallaciously broken?

1009
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,479
Speaker 1: Guys, I'm currently looking at an image of the skin room.

1010
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: What he's referring to is the curtains hanging above the bed,

1011
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: which kind of drape out in a way that might

1012
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: be called might be called y.

1013
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1014
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 6: No, I recall, and I also recall the scrap book

1015
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 6: Ismlla's scrap book entry. And I mean, I think so

1016
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 6: much of the imagery in that film is like brushing

1017
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 6: up against meaningfulness, but it just doesn't really have a

1018
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 6: deeper layer, you know, like like this is sexy weathering Heights.

1019
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 6: So we're going to have some you know, yanik and

1020
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,720
Speaker 6: phallic imagery all all over, and everything's going to be wet,

1021
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 6: you know. It's I don't I wouldn't want to put

1022
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 6: too much thought into it because I don't know how

1023
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 6: rewarding That would be because I think so much of

1024
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 6: this film's ideas about the text, such as they are

1025
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 6: operating on a purely visual or stylistic level, and this

1026
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 6: is just kind of another example of that. But I

1027
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 6: don't think it is really additive in a meaningful way

1028
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 6: to the story or Kathy's character. It's vibes, you know,

1029
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 6: the movie is all vibes.

1030
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 4: This is not a rich This is not a rich

1031
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 4: test alternative title, right.

1032
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean I would I actually came out

1033
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 6: of my first viewing of the film saying like, I

1034
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 6: would like to read a really smart take on the

1035
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 6: skin Room imagery, and none ever really materialized, you know,

1036
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 6: because it's such compelling and interesting imagery, and I can

1037
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 6: appreciate it on that level, you know, Like I do

1038
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,479
Speaker 6: think style can be substance and this is a really

1039
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 6: great example of that. But the way it's all just

1040
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 6: like pile up one on top of the other, like

1041
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 6: it gives the semblance of like deeper meaning without I

1042
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 6: think they're actually it actually being there.

1043
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: You might be right, or maybe it's the most profound

1044
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: movie of our times.

1045
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 6: If you if you have a great skin Room Yannick

1046
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 6: headboard take, please write in I love to hear it.

1047
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we always appreciate feedback from our listeners. To

1048
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: reach us, you can leave a short voicemail at seven

1049
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: seven three two three four nine seven three zero or

1050
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: email us at comments at Next Pictureshow dot net. You

1051
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: can also send a recorded message to our email address

1052
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: if you want to make sure you get the wording

1053
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: just right. And that's it for this episode of the

1054
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show. In our next episode, we'll talk about

1055
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: The Bride, a movie about a different type of outlow couple.

1056
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: Look for that episode next Tuesday on your podcast our choice.

1057
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: For ad free versions of the podcast and extra content,

1058
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: find us on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Next

1059
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: Picture Show. You can also find us at Next Picture

1060
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: Show dot net and on blue sky at at the

1061
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show if you want to keep track of

1062
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: when new episodes drop until next week. Remember, if you

1063
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: want to rob a bank in the middle of a depression,

1064
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: it's best to choose one that hasn't already been emptied

1065
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: of all its money.

1066
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 9: Movie.

1067
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 4: Yeah seen here before once.

1068
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 6: Hi, I'm Emily, your friend and jeweler at Shane Company,

1069
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,399
Speaker 6: where fine jewelry is always crafted with care, no matter

1070
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 6: the price.

1071
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 3: Mother's Day, birthdays and graduations, weddings and anniversaries, the new

1072
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 3: job you got and even the one you didn't.

1073
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: Give a birthstone necklace, a heart shaped locket made in Italy,

1074
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: or high quality diamond studs you can trade up every year.

1075
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 6: At Shane Company, we have something for everyone.

1076
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 3: Because a friend wants you to win the gifting game,

1077
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 3: Visit us in store or at shaneco dot com. Shaine Company,

1078
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: your friend and jeweler