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Speaker 1: Hey there, everyone, and welcome to the Betting pros NFL Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Harris. You can find me on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Dan Harris Ady. Today we're joined by someone

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Speaker 1: with whom I am very excited to speak. He's Dustin Galker,

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Speaker 1: a long time and, if I may say so, myself,

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Speaker 1: brilliant sports journalist who is basically the authority, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: on these sports betting and online gambling industries. He's currently

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Speaker 1: the head of content of legalsports Report dot com and

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Speaker 1: Playanja dot com, as well as other sites which you

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Speaker 1: can check out anytime to see exactly where things stand

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Speaker 1: in terms of the legal sports betting landscape. Dustin, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today. How are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm great, Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Honestly, as I said, I've been looking forward to

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Speaker 1: talking to you for a while because really, you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody's very excited about the fact that sports betting is

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Speaker 1: now quote unquote legal, and so they really want to know.

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Speaker 1: What I really want to know, frankly, is how we

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Speaker 1: got to this point and where things stand and where

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Speaker 1: things are going to look going forward. So we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about all of that today and more. But to get started,

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Speaker 1: this is a Betting Pros podcast, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: you listening might not be familiar with the site Bettingpros

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Speaker 1: dot com. You know, if you're a fan of Fantasy

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Speaker 1: pros and or if you have any remote interest in

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Speaker 1: betting on sports, then you're going to be a pretty

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Speaker 1: happy camper. Betting Pros pulls together expert picks from across

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Speaker 1: various platforms, It objectively rates the advice, and then it

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Speaker 1: turns them into consensus picks. So if you go to

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Speaker 1: Bettingpros dot com, in addition to in depth articles and analysis,

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Speaker 1: you're going to be able to get consensus picks from

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Speaker 1: over one hundred and fifty experts, either for over unders

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Speaker 1: or against the spread. You'll see the accuracy ratings for

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Speaker 1: everyone who is submitting picks. You can compare expert picks

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Speaker 1: for any game you want, and you can see consensus

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Speaker 1: odds across sportsbooks to make it easy to compare the

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Speaker 1: various odds that are out there. Whether you're a novice

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Speaker 1: or an experienced gambler. It's got a ton of great

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Speaker 1: content that can help you maximize your return on investment. Now,

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Speaker 1: with all that said, although the vast majority of these

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Speaker 1: podcast episodes are going to be about offering sports betting advice.

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Speaker 1: Today is going to be a little different. As I said,

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Speaker 1: because we're pretty much at the inception of the show,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to sort of examine the sports betting landscape,

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better way to say it. Now, Dustin,

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Speaker 1: you are immersed in this stuff, but I'm sure a

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Speaker 1: lot of our listeners are basically at the level of

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Speaker 1: understanding of sports betting was illegal and now it's legal

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Speaker 1: full stop. So what I'd like to do today is

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Speaker 1: kind of demystify the entire sports betting universe. First, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about you know, because

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Speaker 1: like I said, you're essentially my hero, how you started

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Speaker 1: out generally, how you got into this area specifically, and

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Speaker 1: everything you do on a day to day basis that,

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Speaker 1: I want to discuss the history of sports betting in

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Speaker 1: the country, when and why it became illegal, generally, how

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Speaker 1: we got to the point where it was legalized, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And then lastly, let's get to the current state of

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Speaker 1: sports betting in the country and what we expect to

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Speaker 1: see now in the next few months and maybe even

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Speaker 1: the next few years. Does that work for you?

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Speaker 2: It sounds good to me. Yeah, I think you might

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Speaker 2: want to pick a different hero just me.

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Speaker 1: No, Man, if you knew me, you would really, honestly,

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Speaker 1: this is like my Christmas morning right now. It's very

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Speaker 1: exciting for me because you know, you have so much

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Speaker 1: knowledge on this area. And frankly, I mean, in addition

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Speaker 1: to just you know, enjoying sports gambling as a personal

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Speaker 1: sort of gambler, I'm very interested in sort of the

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Speaker 1: legal sort of background of how it got here and

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Speaker 1: when it became legal and what it means. Now. So

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Speaker 1: let's start a bit with your personal background. Why don't

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Speaker 1: you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm I'm a journalist by trade. I've been

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Speaker 2: doing this pretty much since before college. I started out

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Speaker 2: taking like Little league scores at my local high school,

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Speaker 2: my local paper back in Pennsylvania. Just wanted to stick

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Speaker 2: with journalism work for the Washington Post out of college,

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Speaker 2: and then it was pretty much in sports journalism, and

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Speaker 2: then you know, as you know, I'm sure your listeners know,

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Speaker 2: newspaper is not doing so well these days, so look

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Speaker 2: for a way to get out of that and just

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Speaker 2: kind of latched on with Legal Sports Report back in

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, back as Daily Fantasy sports was just starting

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Speaker 2: to take off. DraftKings and Van Duel where the hot

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Speaker 2: ticket back then, and we actually most of my writing

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Speaker 2: was about them and Daily Fantasy once upon a time,

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Speaker 2: And which is a wild thing to think back on,

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Speaker 2: is that that used to be my bread and potat,

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Speaker 2: my bread and butter, meat potatoes, what have you. And

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Speaker 2: now we're writing about sports betting all the time. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I just kind of lashed onto that. I've been,

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Speaker 2: you know, online poker player and not not a professional

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Speaker 2: gambler by any means, but I've gambled off and on

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Speaker 2: throughout my career and it was involved in the online

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Speaker 2: poker industry, and it was a pretty pretty easy transition

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Speaker 2: for me because I kind of understood the players and

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Speaker 2: what was going on, able to, you know, despite the

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Speaker 2: fact that I don't have a legal background, able to

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Speaker 2: kind of break down what was going on on a

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Speaker 2: legal legal front for Daily Fantasy and sports betting. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: just you know, like you said, in the last few years,

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Speaker 2: basically the last year, it's really taken off to the

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Speaker 2: point that, yeah, there's there's a lot more people covering

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Speaker 2: this space and a lot lot more interest in it.

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Speaker 2: So and yeah, now I just now I run a

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Speaker 2: bunch of sites legal sports sport, one of them mostly

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Speaker 2: focused on the online sports spending and online casino industries.

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Speaker 1: So what's like a typical day for you now? I mean,

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Speaker 1: considering the explosion and considering that, you know, it seems

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Speaker 1: like every day a new state is either legalizing sports

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Speaker 1: betting or they're setting up infrastruction where there's some new development.

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Speaker 1: So what's like a typical day for you at this

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Speaker 1: stage of your career?

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Speaker 2: Not too many typical days. I used to just sit

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Speaker 2: down and write every day. I wrote something like a

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Speaker 2: dozen stories a week and edited edited sites. And now

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Speaker 2: I just I'm kind of sit on top and just

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Speaker 2: managed sites and make sure we have writers available to

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Speaker 2: write this stuff because we're just our companies just constantly,

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Speaker 2: you know, creating new websites. So yeah, we're those new states.

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Speaker 2: We're creating new websites. We have a brand of sites

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Speaker 2: called the Play US under the Play USA, Umbrella Play

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Speaker 2: and jay Play Pennsylvania, which are the two big sports

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Speaker 2: betting markets right now. And then we're yeah, right right now,

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Speaker 2: I'm we're constantly launching new sites. Indiana one of the

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Speaker 2: new new states coming on Play Indiana. So, yeah, my

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Speaker 2: day is not quite what it used to be when

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Speaker 2: I was writing, you know, furiously every day about what

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Speaker 2: was going on in fantasy and sports betting. It's more

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Speaker 2: kind of trying to prepare for what the media landscape

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Speaker 2: will look like, you know, six months, a year, or

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Speaker 2: two years.

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Speaker 1: From now, right, and what exactly is you know, you're

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Speaker 1: mentioning the different states, you said, Play and Jay and

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Speaker 1: Play a Pennsylvan need to get what exactly are those

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Speaker 1: sites doing? Are they just monitoring the progress of sports

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Speaker 1: betting in those individual states?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we do newspacing content they are Google news

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Speaker 2: listed sites, or we cover the industry, what's going on,

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Speaker 2: you know what, you know, what the industry might want

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Speaker 2: to know, what betters might want to know, what just

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Speaker 2: you know, the layperson who just wants to learn about

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Speaker 2: more about legal options in those states or or nationally.

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Speaker 2: So we just we cover the news, We provide information,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you just want to know what's going

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Speaker 2: on in that state, we'll provide that. And yeah, we're

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Speaker 2: turning out a lot of news stories I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: across the network that I run, we're doing probably you know,

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Speaker 2: eighty ninety stories a week just on gambling, which which

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Speaker 2: might sound crazy, but there's there is an appetite for that.

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Speaker 1: No, absolutely, absolutely with the change now, I mean, everybody's

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Speaker 1: really kind of into it and we are going to

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Speaker 1: get there. But I do want to start first at

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Speaker 1: kind of the evolution of legalized sports betting, right. I

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Speaker 1: mean we talked about obviously there's a case that suddenly,

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Speaker 1: after the case came, sports betting was essentially I won't

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Speaker 1: say it was legal, but it was no longer illegal

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better way to sort of describe it,

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Speaker 1: but to the extent, I mean, you know, where did

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Speaker 1: sports betting stand kind of in the history sort of

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Speaker 1: of the country before all of this came to light.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the only place it's been legal till

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Speaker 2: really until this past year was Nevada. It's been legal

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Speaker 2: there for decades. Obviously, sports books cropped up, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the desert there, and it's it became pretty big

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Speaker 2: business and a big attraction for for veas you go.

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Speaker 2: If you ever if you've ever been there for the

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl of March Madness, you'll you know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about it just those those sports books there are

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Speaker 2: kind of crazy. So but yeah, the law that was

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two to just kind of stopped anybody

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Speaker 2: else from legalizing it before anybody else really thought of it.

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Speaker 2: And so it's existed, you know, largely as a as

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Speaker 2: a you know, a black market up opportunity, you know,

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Speaker 2: just your your corner bookie before the advent of the internet.

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Speaker 2: Now and with the you know, with the the rise

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Speaker 2: of the Internet, there's obviously dozens and dozens of websites

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Speaker 2: that will take your bets that you know, operate you know,

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Speaker 2: outside of the jurisdics of the United States and state laws.

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Speaker 2: So that's where sports betting has mostly been. And then yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was kind of just in hiatus. There's nobody could

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Speaker 2: really legalize it or expand on what was done beyond Nevada.

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Speaker 1: So out of curiosity, and I'll ask a couple of

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Speaker 1: different follow up questions, but here do you know, like

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two and the law, if I'm saying it right,

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Speaker 1: the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act, right, is that

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Speaker 1: what it was called? Okay, and PASSPA, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say for short, just because I.

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Speaker 2: Don't say that. They'll say, don't say the whole thing

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Speaker 2: every time.

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Speaker 1: But no, no, I mean this podcast would go on

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Speaker 1: for four hours if I had to do that. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, that comes in nineteen ninety two out of curiosity.

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Speaker 1: What happens in nineteen ninety two. That's suddenly people if

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Speaker 1: you know that, people are sort of saying, I was

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Speaker 1: wondering if that had anything to do with because the

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Speaker 1: whole Pete Rose thing obviously, I mean that was in

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Speaker 1: the late eighties and early nineties where the Doubt Report

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Speaker 1: came out and all of that, and the impact of

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Speaker 1: sort of sports gambling, whether that had anything to do

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Speaker 1: with it, or was it just kind of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: two a random year that things started.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, that's just the year that the law

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Speaker 2: got passed to was the you know represented Bill Bradley,

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Speaker 2: a former professional basketball player, was the was the sponsor

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Speaker 2: of it. It had been the idea of it had

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Speaker 2: been around for a little bit, and then it just

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Speaker 2: kind of just kind of happened in ninety two in Congress.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't I don't think there's any proximate events that said, oh,

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Speaker 2: we need to do this right this second but you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think Bradley obviously this was a pet

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Speaker 2: pet issue for him being a former athlete, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, and he's even after the Supreme Court decision

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Speaker 2: he said, he said, it's a bad idea that this happened.

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Speaker 2: But you know, for what, really, what PASSPAR really did

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Speaker 2: was create that that offshore illegal market that that I've

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Speaker 2: been that I talked about and mentioned that, you know,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't really banning sports betding in any meaningful way.

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Speaker 2: All it was doing was stopping legal sports betting and

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Speaker 2: regulating it and from states or the United States from

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Speaker 2: from capturing any kind of revenue from it.

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Speaker 1: Right, So that's interesting. One thing that you said, I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask about because I am unfortunately a

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Speaker 1: Knicks fan as I'm from New York, and so Bradley

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Speaker 1: Bill Bradley still against it. He was against the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court decision that overturned PASSPA.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he thought this was a good piece

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Speaker 2: of legislation, and no, you know, yeah, he came out afterwards.

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Speaker 2: I believe he wrote not bad or I saw comments.

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Speaker 2: I honestly forget exactly what he said, but he did

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Speaker 2: come out and saying this was he thought it was

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Speaker 2: a mistake that he believed that. You know, this kind

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Speaker 2: of opens up paraphrasing, but Pandora's box, it's a lot

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Speaker 2: what a lot of people use that we have expanded

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Speaker 2: sports betting. This is this is going to change sports

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Speaker 2: for the worst, and you know that's kind of counter

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Speaker 2: to what everybody's believed. You know, NBA, major League Baseball

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Speaker 2: have really come around on this from saying Okay, we

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Speaker 2: can't we're not really banning this in any meaningful way.

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Speaker 2: We should take We should bring it into the sunlight.

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Speaker 2: We should be regulating and make sure we have you know,

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Speaker 2: we can see into what betters are doing with data,

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Speaker 2: what's going through sports books. So yeah, I don't think. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was still not a fan of it, but you know,

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Speaker 2: at the same time, I think I think the world

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Speaker 2: is a lot different place than it was in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety two when the law was initially passed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So, I mean, you're not a lawyer, So

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Speaker 1: if I ask you any questions that you're like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that. I don't have a legal background, So

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Speaker 1: that's fine, So I'll try not to do that. But

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Speaker 1: you know, my understanding of PASPA and The reason why

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Speaker 1: it was still legal to do it in Nevada was

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Speaker 1: because essentially there was almost a grandfather clause if sports.

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Speaker 1: If states were allowing sports betting at the time PASSPO

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Speaker 1: was enacted, they were allowed to continue doing that. Is

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Speaker 1: that right? Is that why Nevada was still allowed to

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically it was. It's weird because the law

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Speaker 2: didn't actually specifically mention Nevada, but the understanding was other

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Speaker 2: states were if if you already legalized it, you're okay,

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Speaker 2: which the only one that had single game wagering was

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Speaker 2: was was Nevada. So there are the three other states,

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Speaker 2: Oregon where I live, Montana, and Delaware all had limited forms,

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Speaker 2: and we're talking really limited. Delaware had parlay betting on

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Speaker 2: NFL games, the Oregon had a had a lottery product.

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Speaker 2: It was the same kind of thing where you could

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Speaker 2: parlay games together. So it was really limited in all

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Speaker 2: these other states. And there's a short window where other

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Speaker 2: states could have legalized it had they chosen to in

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Speaker 2: a hot hot topic back in nineteen ninety two, but

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Speaker 2: New Jersey with Atlantic City had at least looked at it.

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Speaker 2: Just the law did. The legislation didn't make it to

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Speaker 2: the finish line. So but yes, that's why why Nevada

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Speaker 2: had it and why basically they had a monopoly on

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Speaker 2: it until this past year.

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Speaker 1: And that's interesting. So I think you mentioned Oregon, Montana

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Speaker 1: and Delaware was that the third up?

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Speaker 2: That's correct?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so they technically could allow some sort of form

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Speaker 1: of sports gambling even before PASSPO was declared unconstitutional. Was

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Speaker 1: that right? But they didn't have obviously anything close to

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Speaker 1: what Nevada ad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they, like I said, the two limited forms in Delaware.

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Speaker 2: Montana was even more limited. But yeah, that's that's also

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Speaker 2: why Delaware was the first. It was actually the first

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Speaker 2: state post PASPA to offer betting because they just said, oh,

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Speaker 2: we were already doing this, We're just gonna expand it

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Speaker 2: to single game wagering. They didn't even have to pass

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Speaker 2: a new law, so they just like turned on the

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Speaker 2: lights really quickly. So which is which is funny because

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Speaker 2: New Jersey fought this, fought this battle, and then Delaware

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Speaker 2: kind of comes and they were the first. It was

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Speaker 2: the first legal sports bets placed outside of Nevada were

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Speaker 2: in Delaware, and then yeah here in ore and were

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Speaker 2: actually same thing. They don't have to pass a new law.

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Speaker 2: They're just going to start offering sports betting here less

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Speaker 2: than a month. It seems like because of that existing

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Speaker 2: law that said they could that the lottery could offer

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Speaker 2: sports betting if they so choose.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I imagine it would be easier for those

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Speaker 1: states to do it. My I mean, you touched on

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Speaker 1: it a little bit in that pass, but didn't really

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Speaker 1: have the intended effect. If anything, it sort of made

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Speaker 1: things worse because rather than sort of being regulated and

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Speaker 1: everything like that, sports gambling still took place. It just

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Speaker 1: sort of took place in you know, offshore ways and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Do you have any idea of sort

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Speaker 1: of the amounts that we're talking about, like what size

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Speaker 1: businesses we were talking about doing offshore betting and things

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, back in nineteen ninety two, I mean this is

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Speaker 2: pretty small. I mean, the internet was barely a thing,

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Speaker 2: so there wasn't really a whole lot of wagering going

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Speaker 2: online back then. So again, you know, in retrospect, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: this kind of did shut down betting other than your

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Speaker 2: local bookie who took in big cities, it took who

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Speaker 2: booked games, or your buddy at the bar who booked,

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Speaker 2: who might book something. So but yes, you know, obviously

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Speaker 2: internet became what it is today, and it really became

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Speaker 2: a major thing we have. You know, there's several major

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Speaker 2: players who take a lot of money. There's not a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of great information because these are these are

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Speaker 2: you know, sites that are based in the Caribbean nations

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Speaker 2: or Costa Rica, so we have no idea what they're

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Speaker 2: really doing. But you know, the estimates we've seen, most

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Speaker 2: reasonable estimates are you know, somewhere from like sixty seventy

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Speaker 2: billion in total wagers a year to up to up

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Speaker 2: to about one hundred and fifty billion, you know, and

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Speaker 2: then you take you know, whatever amount of that is

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Speaker 2: being held traditionally in that it's like five to seven percent,

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Speaker 2: maybe a little more, depending on how how good your

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Speaker 2: book making is. So you know, we're still talking billions

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Speaker 2: of dollars of revenue going offshore. But yes, but that

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Speaker 2: just that sheer amount of money is flowing, you know,

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Speaker 2: through banks and through the system and into sports books

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Speaker 2: and then back to Americans. Yes, certainly tens of billions,

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Speaker 2: if not more than one hundred billion dollars every year.

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Speaker 2: But in the old days and still today, probably, oh.

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Speaker 1: Right, absolute, because you know, especially even now where not

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Speaker 1: every state and we will get to exactly where things

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Speaker 1: stand right now, but certainly, you know, in most states

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Speaker 1: you can't just go out and place a bet on

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Speaker 1: sports yet at this point because they're still sort of

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Speaker 1: obviously rationing up all the infrastructure and everything, right that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, That's the kind of the crazy part about all

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Speaker 2: this is that, yeah, most most people who are aware

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Speaker 2: of this, this decision at all, are like this, oh,

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Speaker 2: sports betting is legal now, Like that's that's a common misconception,

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Speaker 2: is that Okay, now the Supreme Courts that it was Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go bet you plug sports betting into the

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Speaker 2: old Google machine and you come with you know, come

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Speaker 2: up with Bravada and bet online and all these other

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Speaker 2: sites that are that are all shore sites that are

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Speaker 2: not you know, not operating under any kind of US law.

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Speaker 2: So it's it's actually probably in the short term it's

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Speaker 2: probably been a really good thing for those sites.

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Speaker 1: And yes, exactly, see now you understand why I insisted

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Speaker 1: on having you on right away, because that's the thing

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Speaker 1: people sort of when I talk to people about it,

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Speaker 1: they're like, well, it's legal. I can just go out

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Speaker 1: and do it now when you're trying to do it

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Speaker 1: right now you are almost certainly doing it, or account

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Speaker 1: you know you're not. It's gonna take time, which we

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Speaker 1: will get to. But let's keep going now with how

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Speaker 1: basically PASPA gets declared unconstitutional. Now the case it's I

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Speaker 1: believe it's called Murphy versus NCAA. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: It was? It was originally called Christie for Chris Governor

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Speaker 2: Chris Christie, but the Shores he left office, Governor Phil

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Speaker 2: Murphy became and so he got his name on the case.

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Speaker 2: So he gets he gets all the fame and glory.

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Speaker 2: I don't know having that's faming glory, but he does

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Speaker 2: like to take credit now that his name's on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I certainly would, absolutely so out of

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Speaker 1: curiosity before this case, which sort of came in from

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, where any other states making any you know,

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Speaker 1: efforts in the courts to try to get PASPA overturned

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Speaker 1: or was really New Jersey spearheading.

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Speaker 2: Delaware done this. Delaware it's done something similar and didn't

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Speaker 2: really get anywhere with it. But they they they were

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Speaker 2: in court to try to offer single game wagering, same

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Speaker 2: kind of thing where the NCAA and the Professional Sports

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Speaker 2: League stopped them from doing it. It never got as

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Speaker 2: far as New Jersey, and they didn't really push the

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Speaker 2: issue quite as much as New Jersey. So but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was not really beyond that, not really much else

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Speaker 2: there in New Jersey's kind of been the torch bear.

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Speaker 2: You know, Oregon. Again, I I have more than enough

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Speaker 2: knowledge about Oregon because I live here, But you know,

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Speaker 2: they actually shut down their sports betting product because the

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Speaker 2: NCAA didn't like it, like, oh, we don't want to

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Speaker 2: have events where there's betting. So they actually said, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to let you host NCAA tournament level events

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Speaker 2: or championship events unless you get rid of this betting product.

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Speaker 2: The next sure, we're successful for that year. After they

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Speaker 2: pulled sports action the lottery product, the NCAA came in

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Speaker 2: and said, oh, we'll have a we'll have a regional

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Speaker 2: regional tournament games for men's basketball in Portland. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so there wasn't a whole lot of noise being made

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Speaker 2: outside of New Jersey, so, which is which is interesting

402
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Speaker 2: considering all of the interest in it now and you know,

403
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Speaker 2: you know, dozens of states considering legislation in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: All right, so without going crazy, and again I will

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Speaker 1: reiterate that I understand you're not a lawyer, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to hold you sort up to anything, but

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Speaker 1: I do know that you were from your Twitter, you

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Speaker 1: were actually at the oral argue in the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: for Murphy versus NC double A.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's that's correct. It was. That's kind of

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Speaker 2: a thrill. I mean, I don't know, I'm from I lived,

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Speaker 2: I went to school in DC. I went to George

414
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Speaker 2: Washington University, interned in Congress and like going back and like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm a media member covering the Supreme Court. I got

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Speaker 2: I got a media pass, which is I mean, you

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Speaker 2: can just go and get in if you get there

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Speaker 2: right enough. But I got in on a media pass. Sadly,

419
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Speaker 2: I was behind one of the pillars, so I only

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Speaker 2: got a partial view of everything that was going on.

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Speaker 2: Because the media seeding, unless you're a regular Supreme Court

422
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Speaker 2: reporter is not is not the best. But you still

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Speaker 2: got to go in. You still got you know, space

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Speaker 2: to type after after the after the hearing was ther

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Speaker 2: arguments were heard and yeah, that was that was kind

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Speaker 2: of cool to be there and you know, see what

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Speaker 2: was the beginning of the end of PASPA.

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Speaker 1: And you just found your notes. I saw right on

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Speaker 1: Twitter all your notes I did.

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Speaker 2: I have a legal pad because you can't. You can't

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Speaker 2: record while you're in session. While they're in session. You

432
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 2: just have to go in and take as much notes.

433
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 2: So I don't know how much shorthand writing I had

434
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 2: done and up un for a long time until that time,

435
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 2: but yes I have. I have my twenty plus pages

436
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 2: of notes that I was hastily scribbling down during oral

437
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 2: arguments so I could hopefully put something together quickly after.

438
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 1: The argument was man to show you just how much

439
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 1: of a nerd I am. I would like be obsessed

440
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 1: with those notes, if you, like you were my next

441
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 1: door neighbor, I would be coming over every day and

442
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: just kind of learning them because.

443
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 2: They're pretty bad.

444
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 1: They're pretty bad.

445
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 2: My handwriting when i'm writing fast is bad. I'm sure

446
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,679
Speaker 2: at the time I could understand what it was. Now

447
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 2: i'm looking at I'm like, I don't even.

448
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: Know what all right, So tell tell me a little bit,

449
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, as plainly as you can, and planes speak

450
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,479
Speaker 1: about what you know, Murphy versus NCAA was and how

451
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: got to the court and what eventually happened.

452
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. So New Jersey for years and years argued that

453
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 2: the PASSPO was telling the states what to do, that

454
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 2: this was a tenth Amendum inn issue states rights that

455
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 2: the Congress had basically said, hey, you can't you can't

456
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 2: do anything about sports betting without this is this telling

457
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 2: you how to do it, and that they just thought

458
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 2: that was ridiculous. I mean, certainly other states fight other

459
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: things on states rights, but New Jersey really wanted sports betting,

460
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 2: really wanted to help Atlantic City out. So yeah, I

461
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: think it was originally I mean, now I forget its

462
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: two thousand and they passed the law in twenty eleven. Yeah,

463
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 2: the it became an act in twenty twelve, and then

464
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 2: that triggered the court case. It wasn't actually New Jersey

465
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 2: suing because they just passed the law saying, hey, we

466
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 2: want sports, we're gonna have sports betting. Here's the law,

467
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,679
Speaker 2: and then the NCAA right just to.

468
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: Be just to be clear, just to be clear, that's

469
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 1: how it works, right, I Mean there's a lot that

470
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: says states who can't do this the state says, well,

471
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it, and then somebody has to

472
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: come in and stop them from doing it. Right, And

473
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: so that's how the how the court case.

474
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 2: Which is also which is also kind of wild though

475
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 2: because this is a these are this gave the PASSPA

476
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 2: gave to get two into the weeds, but PASTA gave

477
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 2: the right of enforcement. Basically, two private leagues like to NCAA,

478
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: uh the other NBA, Major League Baseball, NHL, and the

479
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,479
Speaker 2: NFL were all against the law and they were the

480
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 2: they were the people that brought the case said we

481
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: don't want this to happen. The DJ joined the case

482
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 2: in the first iteration. The New Jerseys we lost in

483
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 2: the second narration. D o J was not a part

484
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 2: of the case. But yeah, it was basically just those

485
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 2: those leagues saying, Okay, we don't want this law. Because

486
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: if the if they didn't have really standing under pass

487
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 2: but to do this, they wouldn't have there wouldn't have

488
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: been even be in a case. So unless the d

489
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 2: o J brought it. So it's it was interesting because yeah,

490
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 2: the whole whole the time, this paid the pay of

491
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: the leagues which were saying this is going to be

492
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 2: the death of sports if you allow sports betting, uh

493
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: in New Jersey and beyond. So yeah, it's that that

494
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 2: part of it's really interesting to me.

495
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: So wait, the leagues actually believe that, or were the

496
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: league the league?

497
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: Oh, I think they believed it back then, you know,

498
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 2: the old the old Guard. You know, the interesting thing

499
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 2: about how it is developed and we're getting a little

500
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: far afield, but yeah, yeah, but the commit the commissioners

501
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: now you know Rob Manfred Adam, mister Adam Silver, they

502
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 2: they all they are totally different than our predecessors, and

503
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, sports betting is okay, it's not the

504
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 2: end of the world. You know, we should regulate it.

505
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: We should do that. The old you know, the old

506
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 2: the old Guard was definitely like believe this was bad news.

507
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: I mean everything white Black Sox, Pete Rose, all Donnie scandal.

508
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: They were like, this is all gonna happen more if

509
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 2: sportspanning becomes legal, and that's why they know that. They

510
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 2: really did believe that. I think not maybe not everybody

511
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 2: in the leagues, but at least the commissioner certainly did.

512
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: I think. Okay, that's interesting. Okay, So who won in

513
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: sort of the lower court. Was it a New Jersey

514
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: lost right, It was New Jersey appealing and all the

515
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: way up to the Supreme Court.

516
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so the first generation in the case actually

517
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: two cases, this is Murphy Christy versus NCAA two is

518
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 2: the one that happened. The first one New Jersey passed.

519
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: This law lost in you know, district court, lost in

520
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: appeals court, never got taken up by the Supreme Court.

521
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: So that was kind of it. But the appeals Court said, okay,

522
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: you wrote wrote law this way, but if you wrote

523
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: it slightly differently, maybe it'll be okay, and maybe it won't.

524
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 2: Maybe it won't. We won't think it'll be it'll be

525
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 2: okay under the constitution it won't, or it underpass, but

526
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: the way you want to do it. So they kind

527
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: of changed the law passed. The new law immediately gets

528
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 2: sued again by the NCAA at all and we have

529
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: another case. So again they love New Jersey, lose everywhere,

530
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: losing district court, losing the third Circuit Court of Appeals.

531
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: They actually requested a hearing on bunk, which we're really

532
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: into the weeds, but where every sitting judge on the

533
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: on the on the Circuit listens to the arguments and

534
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: then votes on it. They lost that, and then then

535
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: the big, the big one was back was when the

536
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: Supreme Court said the appeal to the Supreme Court. The

537
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 2: Supreme Court said they'd actually taken and as I'm sure

538
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 2: you know, so many of the cases of Supreme Court takes,

539
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: they don't take them just to you know, rubber stamp, Okay,

540
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: you did a good job. Appeals Court they're often looking

541
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: to saying, okay, we think that something was wrong here.

542
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure what the exact I forget the

543
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: exact stats, but more than fifty percent of cases that

544
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: go to Supreme Court to get overturned. So that was

545
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: the real first sign I think that New Jersey and

546
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 2: sports betting might be coming, because New Jersey had just

547
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: gotten pounded in court over and over again, had never

548
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: won any of these cases at any any level of court.

549
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: And then Supreme Court case game. Finally, the Supreme Court

550
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 2: took the.

551
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: Case and out of curiosity and we will move on

552
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: past the case and get to the current state in

553
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: a minute. But I'm a nerd and I kind of

554
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: like this stuff. You were at the oral argument to

555
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: the extent you can remember was it clear from the

556
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: oral argument that New Jersey was gonna win or was

557
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: it certainly up in the air.

558
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we were we thought, you know,

559
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: just like I said, because they took the case, we're

560
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: already thinking, okay, Supreme Court is looking for some reason

561
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: to say this is this is not right, that this

562
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: is this pass but violence Constitution is going to agree

563
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: with New Jerseys argument. So that day, yes, you could

564
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: count votes and kind of listen to people and which

565
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: justices sounded like they were really on the side of

566
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: New Jersey and or asking questions to leading leading to

567
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: that way. You know, I you know, I think everybody

568
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: who was in the courtroom that day thought New Jersey

569
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: was going to win. Afterwards, certainly wasn't a slam dunk,

570
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: But you asked, you just heard that. You can hear

571
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 2: them asking questions, a tone in their voice. They were,

572
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: you know, asking the lawyers for both sides questions, and

573
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: the think they were definitely seemingly harder on on the

574
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: on the league side lawyers. So yeah, I think I

575
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: think I don't think we knew for sure, but I

576
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: don't think anybody was ca out of there thinking man,

577
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: New Jersey's definitely gonna lose and we're never gonna get

578
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: sports betting. I think there was more optimism after that day.

579
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: All right, So it's now we've get the decision, which

580
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: is about a year ago at this point, right, a

581
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: little more than that.

582
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 2: Yeah may last year?

583
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, may have last year. Okay, So now it says, okay, great,

584
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: this law is essentially unconstitutional. They can't enforce it. And

585
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: what is the effect of that law? Because there is

586
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: somebody in Alaska right now googling sports betting and again

587
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: going to bet online and being like, look, I'm I'm

588
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: gambling in Alaska and everything's fine. What was the actual

589
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: impact of the decision?

590
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what it did, it didn't. All it did

591
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: was basically wipe PASPA off the books. This it just

592
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: made pass a bad law. So all that really did

593
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: was open up an opportunity. It didn't change anything immediately

594
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: other than you could argue to change things the media

595
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: and Delaware because less than a month later they were

596
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: full on single game wagering. So it basically took the

597
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: took the lid off and let states say Okay, if

598
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: you want to legalize it, go for it. So West Virginia.

599
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: It was an interesting one because they actually passed the

600
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: law right before the case and then they were like, okay,

601
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: we can go now, and they started working really hard

602
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: on it and then actually had retail sportsbooks open up

603
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: and open that fall. So wow. Yeah. Basically basically just

604
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: let states do what they wanted to, which is which

605
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: is what what all New Jersey wanted to do, and

606
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: then you know it's it's I you know, I know

607
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: sports betting is popular, but even to me, it's been

608
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 2: shocking the kind of the pace at which things happened

609
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: after that case. How many states are interested in it,

610
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: how many states have legalized, and just how many places

611
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: you're gonna be able to place a legal wager, either

612
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: now or in the near future.

613
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: All right, well, that's what I want to know, and

614
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: that's what people want to know. Okay, let's start with

615
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, I don't know if you know

616
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: the exact number offhand, but where is sports betting legal

617
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: in the United States right now as we sit here?

618
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: So I think the number is ten? Should I should

619
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: have made sure I had this number? Now, that's all right,

620
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: there's the number of states with legal sports books where

621
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 2: you can place a bet right now, I believe is ten.

622
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: So the most recent one was New York, which has

623
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: now four for retail sports books, no online sports betting,

624
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: but yeah you can bet there. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Delaware,

625
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 2: West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, New Mexico, and obviously Nevada. So

626
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: those are the ones that, right the second, you could

627
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: go somewhere in the state in place illegal bet, not

628
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: always online almost actually most of those places don't have

629
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: online betting yet. And then yeah, then there's a larger

630
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: list of states that have legalized it this year, and

631
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 2: it's coming pretty quickly.

632
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: All right, So let me just make sure I completely

633
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: understand that. So you have basically essentially, let's divide it,

634
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 1: I guess into two buckets. One is where is it legal?

635
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: And then where is it legal and operational? Essentially, right,

636
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: because there are there are more than ten states that

637
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: have actually essentially what I'll say, past bills and the

638
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: governor assigned the bill that says, okay, sports betting is

639
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: essentially legal in this state. But that doesn't mean that

640
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: you can go place a bet, you know what I mean,

641
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: or anything like that. They have to actually have until

642
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: we get to online, which we'll talk about in a second,

643
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: they have to actually have an operation at sports book

644
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: or something like that. And you're saying that those ten

645
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: states that you rattled off very impressively, by the way quickly.

646
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: I was looking, I was I was cheating. I was

647
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: looking at a map one legal sports support so so,

648
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: but I don't know if I could have come up

649
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: I probably could have come up with that, offen.

650
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: But that's a great it's a great plug for the

651
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: site anyway. So if you want to know where it is,

652
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: go ahead the Legal Sports Report. But that's what it's

653
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: but there again because again I live and and really

654
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm asking because I live in New

655
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: Hampshire and New Hampshire very recently I know legalized sports gambling.

656
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: The governor signed it. But if I wanted to right now,

657
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: I couldn't just go out in place a bet because

658
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: there's nowhere to do that, right But it is technically

659
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: legal in the state, right.

660
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: Right it'll they have passed the law. They will have

661
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: a legal sports betting option as soon as you know,

662
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: they get through writing regulations of prove licensing people to

663
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: do it. There was actually a request proposals out from

664
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: the that will have companies to just just came out.

665
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: I think today that a lows companies in New Hampshire

666
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: to say I want to do sports betting. I want

667
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: to I want to work with the lottery to do it. There.

668
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: So yes, New Hampshire's on that list. Other states on

669
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: that list. And again I'm gonna be cribbing here. I

670
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: think I think I could probably come.

671
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Up to behind. I mean, I do want to make

672
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: it clear you are no longer my hero, but it's

673
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: fine if you need to do no. I'm sorry, man.

674
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: It was a great run. It was like a twenty

675
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: five minute run. It's great, go ahead.

676
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: I'm better than That's better than I usually do anyway. Illinois, Indiana,

677
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: Iowa are in the midwest, and Tennessee also most some

678
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: of those are actually really close to launch. I always

679
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: going to have retail sports books, like you know, week

680
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: and a half or so, actually a week at August fifteenth,

681
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: I think they go live. So there's there Montana, New Hampshire,

682
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: which you already mentioned, Oregon, where I live, is already legal,

683
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: and there again lotteries running it here. And then yeah, Washington,

684
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: d C. Also has a has a you're going to

685
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: somehow have sports bedding this year too. So those are

686
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: all the places where it's either legal now with the

687
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 2: state of the list I had before, or it's or

688
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: there is a law passed or an existing law that

689
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: will allow for sports bedding, and all those states will

690
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: probably happen twenty nineteen or sometime in the next year.

691
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's let's keep it to just the

692
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: sports books for now. Let's put online aside. In how

693
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 1: many states do first, I guess how many states. Let's

694
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: take a step back. How many states do we expect

695
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: to see legalize sports gambling, whether or not they'll have

696
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: the you know, the it'll be operational. How many states

697
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: do we expect to see legalized sports gambling in the

698
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: next couple of years.

699
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: Well, if you count any kind of floor spinning in

700
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: retail or and or online, you know we're at I

701
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: think the list is eighteen right now. You know, I

702
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: think we'll add at least six or seven to that

703
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: next year, just based on what we saw this year

704
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: in the momentum. So you know, three four years from now,

705
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: I think we'll see thirty plus states where there'll be

706
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: some sort of legal, legal wagering. That's that's that's that's

707
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: what most people. That's the number around twenty five thirty

708
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: I think is reasonable in the near future and a

709
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: will to think about when there's nothing a year ago.

710
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: Whost year right? No, it's really the pace you mentioned it,

711
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: the pace at which this has happened is really mind boggling.

712
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: And I think it's a great thing because I think,

713
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think it'll increase interest in I'm a

714
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: huge sports fan, regardless of all of this, regardless of

715
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: sports gambling, regardless of fantasy. I'm just a huge sportsman,

716
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: and I think that this, if anything, will just obviously

717
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: increase the casual sort of sports watchers desire to pay

718
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: attention to sports. Now, there is undoubtedly somebody sitting there

719
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: in a state like Utah basically being like, when's my

720
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: child that there's no, no, there's no way. Are there

721
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: any other states? It's like, I mean, Utah justice is

722
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: the one that comes to mind. Are there any other

723
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: states where we think eventually this is probably not gonna

724
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: happen no matter what.

725
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's Utah is the only one where

726
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: absolutely not. Why also has no forms of gambling right now?

727
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: They've actually introduced legislation, but hard to see why doing

728
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 2: it just because of that, Like there's just there's just

729
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: a resistance to doing it there. Alaska is another one.

730
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't, I don't know if there's

731
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: a whole lot of appetite for it there. Yeah, And

732
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: then you know there's bigger states. The bigger states are

733
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: the interesting ones just because of I don't I'm not

734
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: gonna say they're never going to have it, but it's

735
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: a slog I mean, people in like Florida, California, and

736
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: Texas is the ones we always get because there's so

737
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: many people there. Texas has really limited forms of gambling,

738
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: kind of another state where it's have resistance to expanding it.

739
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: Florida gambling is kind of run by the Seminole tribe.

740
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: They're not super interested in opening it up beyond them.

741
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: California another place where tribal gaming is huge. There's a

742
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of different people who want to

743
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: be involved with it, and any kind of gambling matter

744
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: gets super complicated in California super quickly, and there just hasn't.

745
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: There wasn't even really a super real push to get

746
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: it done this year, even though again there's legislation.

747
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: And do it.

748
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: So I don't. I don't those none of those places

749
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: are never other than I think you Utah, Utah is

750
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: wet it we could say it, but yeah, I think

751
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: every other state in the Union is pretty is at

752
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: least in play.

753
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: Okay, all right? And so what what what is sports

754
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: gambling going to look like in terms of how we're

755
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: going to do it? I mean, are there you've mentioned

756
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: obviously the ten states I think that already have sort

757
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: of sports books. But is is the future of it

758
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: going to be? You're going to do it online?

759
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: Probably the nature has to be online. This is this

760
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: is the thing I always hammer whenever I talk to

761
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: anyone or if I'm writing about it. If you're not

762
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: you're not legalizing all online and tandem with physical sports books,

763
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: you're just kind of wasting your time. We you know,

764
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: we've seen in New Jersey that eighty percent of wagers already,

765
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: you know, in the first year, made online. So that's

766
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: that's not cannibalizing. People would be going to the sportsbook otherwise,

767
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: that's just additive. People are able to with the ease

768
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: of betting from their phones or their iPads or what

769
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 2: have you. That's how much activity there is going on.

770
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: So if you're you're really trying to capture the black market,

771
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: trying to really generate any kind of real revenue, you

772
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: have to have online. You know, Nevada, you know, people

773
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: kind of point to Nevada is like, oh, they only

774
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: had retail sportsbooks for a long time. You know, they've

775
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: been they were kind of slow. It's online. It's like

776
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: around twenty eleven they started having apps in the state,

777
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: and it's really hard. It's actually hard in the state

778
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: to you have to actually go to a sports book

779
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: and sign up, which is something that some of these

780
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: states that we've talked about actually put into their laws

781
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: as well, that you have for some amount of time

782
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: you have to go to the sportsbook and sign up,

783
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: which is kind of ridiculous. Like can you imagine, yeah,

784
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: any going like anything you want to buy online and

785
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: you have to go to a physical location to sign

786
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: up for your account and then you can use it

787
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: like it's just it's all it's a wild dynamic. But yeah,

788
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: so but it's going to be online. There's even some

789
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: of the states that have already passed it. Rhode Island,

790
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: for instance, only had retail sports betting went back and

791
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: legalized mobile sports betting. It's a it's a huge opportunity,

792
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: and it's the only way if you're really trying to

793
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: again combat the black market, You're not going to do

794
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 2: it by just having brick and mortar sports books.

795
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: You have to have it online, right Yeah, No, absolutely,

796
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I've been assuming. Well, look, Dustin,

797
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: I've really really enjoyed this. I think probably our listeners

798
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: have gotten a lot out of it. Just so again,

799
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: they're not if you're on bet online or if you're

800
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: on Bravada, you're not You're not betting legally in your

801
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: state right now, So don't be thinking that. But even

802
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: though our relationship has obviously been damaged by the fact

803
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: that you're cheating on how many states have legalized that,

804
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: I'd love it if maybe we could talk again in

805
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: you know, six months or something like that, just periodically

806
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: to see how everything is developing. And I certainly hope

807
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: you'll come on again as more and more states continue

808
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: to legalize this and put in the infrastructure to make

809
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: it happen.

810
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, anytime the world will change again in six months,

811
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure, but we'll talk.

812
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: Again, absolutely, and in the meantime, just remind everybody where

813
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: they can find you and see any of your work

814
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: or anything you want to talk about.

815
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Legal Sports Report dot com is the main site

816
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: that we run everything that you want to know about

817
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: any state related to sports betting. Yeah, and if you

818
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: are interested in what's going on in certain states, that

819
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: site will have it or well, you can look at

820
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 2: any of our sites. If you're New Jersey or Pennsylvania

821
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: Play and j Play Pennsylvania are the best resources for

822
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: information in those states.

823
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, thanks a lot for joining us as this

824
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: has been a great episode. This is the Betting pros

825
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: NFL Podcast. We'll be back next week with another episode

826
00:35:38,000 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you then. I iver known that

827
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: thatthing that haft he to