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Speaker 1: Up next, The Truth with Lisa Welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Truth with Lisa Booth. So, what does the future of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party look like after Joe Biden's presidency? What

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Speaker 1: does the future of the country look like? I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get those answers for you from the former Speaker of

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Speaker 1: the House, Knook Gingrich. He's also the author of the

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Speaker 1: book Beyond Biden, where he charts the path forward for us.

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Speaker 1: He's a historian. He's also a former professor as well.

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Speaker 1: You know, we look around right now in the future

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Speaker 1: seems pretty parallels. It seems bleak. There's a lot to

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Speaker 1: be concerned with, but Speaker says, to not lose hope.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a man who wrote the Contract

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Speaker 1: with America where he outlined to voters what a Republican

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Speaker 1: majority would do in n It was a bold move,

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Speaker 1: and voters rewarded him with the Republican majority in both

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Speaker 1: the House and the Senate. I'm really looking forward to

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Speaker 1: getting his wisdom and his perspective on where we are

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Speaker 1: now and what the future holds. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: a great show with a great guy. Stay tuned. So

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Speaker 1: I am really excited about having this next guest on

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Speaker 1: this show because you know, right now, everything seems pretty perilous,

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Speaker 1: it seems pretty daunting. So I am looking forward to

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Speaker 1: having this conversation with Speaker Nuke Ingridge, who is a

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Speaker 1: student of history, a lover of history, former Speaker of

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Speaker 1: the House, someone to offer us some wisdom and reflection

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Speaker 1: about where we are now comparatively speaking to before. He's

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Speaker 1: also the author of the book Beyond Biden. Speaker, it

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Speaker 1: is an honor to have you on the show. Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: it's great to be with you, and you've been doing

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Speaker 1: such an amazing job hosting your programming. But you've done

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Speaker 1: that with everything you've done in life. So I thought

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Speaker 1: this would be a very challenging and exciting experience because

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Speaker 1: I know both how smart you are and how much

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Speaker 1: energy you have, and I look forward to it, and

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Speaker 1: I think in a sense, Beyond Biden is really directed

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Speaker 1: at your generation and younger people even than you, like

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Speaker 1: my grandchildren, uh to say, hey, you know, we can

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Speaker 1: rebuild this country. You know, never never, as Churchill once said,

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Speaker 1: never give up. So I'm delighted have a chance to

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Speaker 1: talk about where we're gonna be once Biden disappears into history.

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Speaker 1: And so where will we be I mean, looking beyond Biden.

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Speaker 1: You know what does that look like? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: in a funny kind of way, by being so militant

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Speaker 1: and so aggressive, the big government socialists have actually created

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Speaker 1: an environment where the average American has been forced to

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Speaker 1: think about what do they really believe? And the result

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Speaker 1: has been there shocked to discover they're really much more

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Speaker 1: conservative than they thought they were. And that particularly conserving

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Speaker 1: the sense that they don't want a gigantic federal government.

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Speaker 1: They don't want inflation, they don't want big bureaucracies dictating

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Speaker 1: their lives. They don't want Paul politicians being hypocrites and

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Speaker 1: setting up one set of rules for the average person

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Speaker 1: in a different set of rules for the powerful. UH.

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Speaker 1: And so in a way, the conversation we're having as

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Speaker 1: a country is really clarifying who we are UH and

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Speaker 1: what I think will turn out to be very positive.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, when you look, for example, at

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Speaker 1: the states that have Republican governors who are applying common sense,

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Speaker 1: things are working. The schools are better, the roads are better,

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Speaker 1: the jobs are better. If you look at the I

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Speaker 1: think of the top ten states and employment, all ten

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Speaker 1: have Republican governors, and nine have Republican state legislatures, and

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Speaker 1: they're just they're applying a different set of rules than

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Speaker 1: say California or Illinois or New York, all of which

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Speaker 1: are dominated by the unions and by politicians and by

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Speaker 1: people who believe in big government bureaucracy, and all of

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Speaker 1: which are in that sense falling behind. Do you think

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Speaker 1: American or enough Americans are awake to that? To what

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Speaker 1: you just laid out, well, appalling date is pretty devastating.

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Speaker 1: I mean when if you ask people do you think

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Speaker 1: this is working? You get an overwhelming no. If you

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Speaker 1: ask people, uh, do you favor big government socialism? The

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Speaker 1: biggest number we've gotten is eight. Uh. And Rasmussen pretty

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Speaker 1: well tracks the same thing. So when people think about it, uh,

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Speaker 1: given what's happening, particularly in Washington, but also in Sacramento

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Speaker 1: and Albany and Springfield, Uh, people are saying no, that

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Speaker 1: that's not what they want. And I think that's gonna

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Speaker 1: have in two thousand twenty two and two thousand twenty four,

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Speaker 1: almost a tsunami. In fact, in one of my newsletters,

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Speaker 1: which I do three a week at English Street sixty

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Speaker 1: that are free and one of them was on the

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Speaker 1: coming tsunami, because I think it's gonna be bigger than

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Speaker 1: a tide. I think that, uh, the rejection is going

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Speaker 1: to be breathtaking, and the number of people left wing

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Speaker 1: Democrats who lose their seats is going to be far

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Speaker 1: more than anybody in Washington thinks today. But do you

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Speaker 1: think Democrats will allow for that? Because what we have

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Speaker 1: seen with the left is a changing of the rules.

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Speaker 1: You know, if they if things aren't going their way,

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Speaker 1: they change the rules. We saw this before election, using

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, using COVID to lean on mail and ballots.

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Speaker 1: We've seen this with them trying to push forward with nationalizing,

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Speaker 1: federalizing or elections. I mean, what do you think we

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Speaker 1: can expect from them on that front? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: to the degree they can cheat, they will uh. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's no accident that the New York City Council has

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Speaker 1: uh is talking about letting eight hundred thousand people who

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Speaker 1: are here illegally vote in New York City elections. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a real sense on the left that

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Speaker 1: if the election is limited to legal American citizens that

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Speaker 1: they're in real trouble. So they both try to vote

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Speaker 1: people who are not alive, or people who don't exist,

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Speaker 1: or people who vote multiple times, and they try to

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Speaker 1: find ways to widen to people who are not legally American.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had things like and I think it

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Speaker 1: was Wisconsin, the Service Employees Union had a nursing home

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Speaker 1: where they provided all the workers, and the workers were

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Speaker 1: going around the people who had Alzheimer's and other challenges

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Speaker 1: and getting them to vote, even though it was clear

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Speaker 1: they had no idea who they were voting for. And

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Speaker 1: so those particular unionized workers were able in effect to

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Speaker 1: vote ten or twenty or thirty times by getting people

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Speaker 1: who were technically available with It's very different if you're

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Speaker 1: if your relative comes in to see you, and your

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Speaker 1: relative knows what you believe, uh, there's at least some

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Speaker 1: grounds for a lot of having you vote. But if

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Speaker 1: somebody comes in who knows that they want to elect

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Speaker 1: a big government, the Democrat and that are gonna exploit

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Speaker 1: you because you now cognitively don't know what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: There's something profoundly wrong with that. And that's what was

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Speaker 1: happening in that particular nursing home in Wisconsin, and of

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Speaker 1: course in places like California, they were just making up

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Speaker 1: the ballots. I mean, there's no question that they were stuffing.

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Speaker 1: One of the great breakthroughs in the Virginia governor's race

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Speaker 1: was they somehow and I don't know how they did this,

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Speaker 1: but they somehow got the Democratic governor and the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Secretary of State to agree that they would count all

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Speaker 1: of the mail in ballots and all of the absentee

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Speaker 1: ballots before they counted the people who voted an election day.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that mattered was the event if you

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Speaker 1: were suddenly losing that that you were not in a

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Speaker 1: position to go back out and manufacture additional ballots because

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Speaker 1: you've already voted them all. Had that happened, for example,

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota a few years back, we would have re

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Speaker 1: elected the Republican senator who was a add on election

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Speaker 1: night until magically, early in the morning, somebody found two

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Speaker 1: precincts in the trunk of a car, and those supercincts

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Speaker 1: happen to be overwhelmingly Democrat, and they happen to show

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Speaker 1: up at just the right moment, and so the Democrat

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Speaker 1: won by a really narrow margin. Well, what they did

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Speaker 1: in Virginia blocked all that sort of game playing, and

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Speaker 1: I think you'll see more and more states insisting on

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Speaker 1: honest elections. And when when we do polls five or

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Speaker 1: eighty seven or sun the American people want you to

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Speaker 1: show your identity, wants you to prove you are who

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Speaker 1: you are. Once it restricted only to legal American citizens.

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Speaker 1: So I think even there, uh get, it's getting harder

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Speaker 1: and harder for the left to cheat. Well. I definitely

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Speaker 1: think the election woke a lot of Americans up in

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Speaker 1: that regard of just saying, hey, look is this fairer?

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Speaker 1: What are we doing? You know, what can we do

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Speaker 1: to sort of safeguard or elections? You know, sir? It's

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Speaker 1: one of those things that you look at today's dynamics

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Speaker 1: with politics right, and there used to be conservatives who

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Speaker 1: would say, oh, the left evil, and I used to

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Speaker 1: be like, no, you know, we have political differences. But

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Speaker 1: but now it's like, you look at what they did

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Speaker 1: to Kavanaugh, you look at what they tried doing to

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Speaker 1: Kyle Rittenhouse. It's there seems to be a different dynamic

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Speaker 1: at play where it's not just simple political disagreements. The

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Speaker 1: left wants to destroy the lives of their political opponents.

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Speaker 1: Is that new? I think the depth of the bitterness

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Speaker 1: is new. I think, you know, we we have. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of ironic the very people who worried about um

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Speaker 1: communists being smeared in the nineteen fifties now enthusiastically run

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Speaker 1: around smearing people. But there's always been a certain amount

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Speaker 1: of that kind of toughness in American politics, but it's

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Speaker 1: gone to a new level of not just attacking you,

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Speaker 1: but attacking your family, almost trying to make it too

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Speaker 1: painful for decent people to be involved in public life,

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Speaker 1: basically saying no, you do this and your whole your

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Speaker 1: whole family is going to pay a huge penalty psychologically. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it's tragic that they have that

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Speaker 1: kind of attitude. So I would say that, um, we

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Speaker 1: are in a time when the bitterness of the left,

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Speaker 1: the degree to which they dislike America, the degree to

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Speaker 1: which they think that the average American is beneath contempted.

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Speaker 1: It's it's the the whole Hillary Clinton attitude. It's the incorrigibles.

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Speaker 1: It said, as somebody one Democrats said, those people who

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Speaker 1: smell like they went to Walmart. Um, you know which

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Speaker 1: that happens, by the way, to have almost every American

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Speaker 1: go to it at least once a year. But it's

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Speaker 1: just this whole contempt for normal people. And part of

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Speaker 1: what it's done is it's driven everyday working Democrats out

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Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party. I mean, the the steady stream,

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Speaker 1: whether you're Hispanic or black, or white or Asian American,

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Speaker 1: the steady stream away from uh, big government, socialism and

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Speaker 1: away from left wing Democrats is amazing. That's why recently

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Speaker 1: we won a special election in San Antonio for a

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Speaker 1: state legislative seat. It was a district that was seventy Hispanic,

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Speaker 1: but in fact we were carrying Hispanics. And as it's

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Speaker 1: one of the great ironies, the left has always counted

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Speaker 1: on what they would have thought of as as people

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Speaker 1: of color. Well, it turns out that people of color

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Speaker 1: aren't stupid, uh, and that people of color are increasingly

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Speaker 1: voting against high taxes, big bureaucracy, and radical social programs. Well,

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Speaker 1: and that was actually one of the things I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you about, because to your point, we've seen

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Speaker 1: this realignment happened, particularly under Trump, of this diverse Republican

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Speaker 1: party that represents the working class, Democrats have become the

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Speaker 1: party of the coastal elites. Was that just President Trump

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Speaker 1: or or how did that realignment happen? You know what's

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Speaker 1: behind that? Well, it wou'd have been building for a

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Speaker 1: long time. I found, in preparing to think about the

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Speaker 1: next few years that it was very helpful to go

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Speaker 1: back and reread Theodore Whites Making the President of nineteen

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Speaker 1: and Making of the President in nineteen seventy two and

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Speaker 1: in sixty eight. White talks at length, both about the

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Speaker 1: revolutionary mood. Remember remember, Um, you wouldn't because you're too young,

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Speaker 1: but so I'll tell you. Uh. In in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: we had twenty five hundred bombings or nine seventy two thousand,

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Speaker 1: five hundred in the United States. We had a scientist

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Speaker 1: at the University of Wisconsin killed by a bomb. We

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Speaker 1: had a historian at Columbia University have his life's work

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Speaker 1: destroyed by a mob. I mean, we were very close

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Speaker 1: San Francisco as a communist UH. His father is still

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Speaker 1: in prison with a life sentence for having killed a

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Speaker 1: his son to be anti prison as opposed to anti

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Speaker 1: killing brink guardsen. Uh And, but but that was a

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Speaker 1: robbery to fund the revolution of sort of an imitation

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Speaker 1: the Communist Party in Russia. Uh And we've forgotten how

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Speaker 1: much that was in ninety two or another. In the

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Speaker 1: sixty eight book, White has a chapter on the media

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Speaker 1: which is really worth reading, and it really sounds like today.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the biases, the the the anti Republican, anti conservative,

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Speaker 1: anti American traits of the New York Times, the Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: they're all right there in ninety In the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: two book, he explains that George McGovern is has a

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Speaker 1: huge problem with the left, and and the line he used,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was really helpful, is that the liberal

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Speaker 1: ideology had become a liberal theology and you could no

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Speaker 1: longer debated, argue about it, modify it, because to do

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Speaker 1: so with an act of heresy had become a basically

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Speaker 1: a quasi religious movement. No this iso. So what you've

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Speaker 1: seen is the steady growth and evolution on college campuses,

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Speaker 1: in the news media, and the bureaucracy of people who

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Speaker 1: have been absorbed into this new theology. Uh. And if

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Speaker 1: you think about it, if you if you think of

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Speaker 1: this as a war of religion between a secular left

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Speaker 1: wing anti you know, anti Christian, anti jew, uh, anti American, uh,

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Speaker 1: anti national religion and the rest of us, then they

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Speaker 1: have the same fanaticism that you would have gotten from

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Speaker 1: the French Revolution, or from the Russian Revolution or the

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Speaker 1: Chinese Revolution. They're remarkable parallels between They're at a two

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Speaker 1: and the way Mao operated in the Cultural Revolution. And

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Speaker 1: on my podcast at news World, I've interviewed Chinese Americans.

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Speaker 1: One of them was a woman who literally was in

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Speaker 1: the Cultural Revolution under Mao, was a very young girl

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Speaker 1: and now is fighting about the schools in Loudon County, Virginia,

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Speaker 1: which she says have taken on Maoist behavior. Uh. She said,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm back in China again. And Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's real. I think that the left

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Speaker 1: here has the same revolutionary tendencies that you would have

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Speaker 1: seen in Paris in seventeen ninety two, or in Moscow

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen, or in China up to today, ping

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Speaker 1: in many ways as the new mau Well and I

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Speaker 1: also interviewed to your point, I interviewed Maximo Alverez to

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Speaker 1: escape Cuba. Who are the same sentiments that you just

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Speaker 1: laid out of a concern that we're turning into Cuba

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned, you know, turning into China. Why does

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Speaker 1: so many people on the left hate America? That the

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Speaker 1: one of the one I used to be a college teacher,

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Speaker 1: and one of the characteristics of college teachers is that

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Speaker 1: they read lots of books. They walk into classrooms where

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Speaker 1: all of these eager young students stare at them, uh

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Speaker 1: slavishly because actually they can flunk them. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are there are a few places of untested power comparable

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Speaker 1: to being a professor in a college classroom. And so

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Speaker 1: of course the students who are relatively clever all suck

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Speaker 1: up to them and go, oh, this is such a

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Speaker 1: brilliant lecture. I can't tell you how much it meant

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Speaker 1: to me to be able to sit here and learn

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Speaker 1: from a genius like you. Well, they believe all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you know they some of them actually work as

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Speaker 1: much as fifteen hours a week. I mean, it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing project. Uh and uh. In fact, a good friend

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Speaker 1: of mine used to explain to his working class relatives

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Speaker 1: that he'd gotten a PhD because he only worked fifteen

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Speaker 1: hours a week, and they said, ah, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: ripping off the man. We got it, you're really clever, obvious.

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Speaker 1: That sort of fit their industrial man ality. Uh. But

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Speaker 1: the fact is they didn't look around. They realize. You know,

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Speaker 1: people like Bill Gates has more money than they do. Well,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't deserve to have more money than they do.

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Speaker 1: And the guy who is the local lawyer who drives

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Speaker 1: a better car than they do, well, why does he that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what does he do? He just he just

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Speaker 1: does law, whereas I am a brilliant genius who does knowledge.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the level of envy is very

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Speaker 1: real and very deep. The other factor that we have

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Speaker 1: just have to own up to is our immigration policy

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Speaker 1: allows people to come here who hate us. Uh, they

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Speaker 1: hated us back when they were home. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: always amazed, for example, when somebody who has migrated from

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Speaker 1: say Somalia, tells us how bad America is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I'm a very happy. We gotta have

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Speaker 1: a policy of saying we will always pay for a

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Speaker 1: return ticket if you'd like to go home. Um. But

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Speaker 1: in addition, you look at a woman, a Somali woman

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Speaker 1: in America and a Somali woman so in Mogadishu. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You have to be literally crazy to think that you're

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Speaker 1: better off in Mogadishu. But they come here, they get

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Speaker 1: to be elected to Congress, and suddenly they disliked the

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Speaker 1: country which has liberated them and protected them and given

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Speaker 1: them status. Uh. And you have to think, as Glad

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Speaker 1: Sad who wrote a great book on this about claiming

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Speaker 1: that the left wingism is actually a virus and you

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Speaker 1: can't deal with them rationally because these are people whose

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Speaker 1: brains are now occupied by this virus. You know. Ah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot he says. You know, when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with somebody who refuses to admit that you have a

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Speaker 1: higher income in the US than in Somalia, you're not

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Speaker 1: having an argument. You're dealing with a person who was

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Speaker 1: a mental illness. Uh. And I think that that is

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Speaker 1: sort of spread on the left. And because it's a

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Speaker 1: some it is a secular religious movement. If you don't

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Speaker 1: believe that, you will be coerced and punished. And and

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Speaker 1: it's it's this this attitude which has allowed Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 1: to run a dictatorship with an amazingly narrow margin. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't as a former Speaker of the House, I would

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Speaker 1: not have thought it possible to do the things that

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Speaker 1: she does. I just think that it's she she gets.

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Speaker 1: In fact that I've suggested that they should that the

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Speaker 1: lemming should replace the donkey as the symbol of the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party because she gets people to walk off the

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Speaker 1: cliffs suicidally on a regular basis. She has a very

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Speaker 1: narrow margin, and probably thirty or forty of her members

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Speaker 1: are literally committing suicide every time they vote with her,

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Speaker 1: and they do it anyway, I think because being kneecapped

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Speaker 1: by Pelosi this week is a more certain punishment than

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Speaker 1: being fired in November of two thousand two. Quick commercial break,

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Speaker 1: more with Speaker Gangridge on the other side. One thing

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Speaker 1: that really concerns me about where we are now is

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Speaker 1: we seen this government reaction to COVID and leaders not

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Speaker 1: just in the United States but around the world using

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Speaker 1: it to reshape society, reshape the role of the federal

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Speaker 1: government in our lives. Are just the government in general,

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Speaker 1: and like the beauty of America as we've been a

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Speaker 1: constitutional republic, self governance, putting power in the hands of

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Speaker 1: the people, and it seems like that power has been

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Speaker 1: taken away. How do we regain that What does that

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Speaker 1: mean for the country moving forward? I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine how we take that power back when

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Speaker 1: it's been taken so egregiously. Well, I think in a

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Speaker 1: lot of states, though you're seeing that happen again, Republican

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Speaker 1: governors as a group, not all of them, but virtually

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Speaker 1: all of them are much more inclined to allow people

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Speaker 1: to live their own lives and run their own risk.

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Speaker 1: If you if you compare Florida in Texas with New

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Speaker 1: York and California, there is just an astonishing difference in

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Speaker 1: attitude in the governing people. UM. I do think that

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Speaker 1: across the planet. Uh, the bureaucrats and the politicians saw

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Speaker 1: this as a great opportunity uh to be brilliant, and

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Speaker 1: and they would have said they were doing what science

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Speaker 1: told them to. The truth is, and I'm in the

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Speaker 1: middle of reading a whole series of books right now

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Speaker 1: on on the COVID epidemic and how it happened, what

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Speaker 1: was done, etcetera. The truth is, first of all, we

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Speaker 1: have a terrible incompetent, obsolete public health system. I'm embarrassed

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Speaker 1: by how bad the Center for Disease Control has become.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a politically dominated, timid, and ineffective bureaucracy,

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Speaker 1: which actually made the COVID epidemics substantially worse in the

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Speaker 1: United States by the bureaucracy and their attitudes. I think

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Speaker 1: that it's clear that politicians like Cuomo killed thousands of

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Speaker 1: people unnecessarily by doing exactly the opposite of what they

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Speaker 1: should have done, putting people with COVID in the nursing

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Speaker 1: homes instead of keeping them out of the nursing homes.

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Speaker 1: I think in New York, for example, we're going to

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Speaker 1: find that literally thousands, minimum of seven thousand, maybe as

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Speaker 1: many as fifteen thousand senior citizens were killed by Andrew

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Speaker 1: Cuomo's policies, just plain killed. Uh and uh So in

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Speaker 1: that sense, I think it's it's bad. I also think

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Speaker 1: that on a worldwide basis, and this is partly the

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Speaker 1: doing of Bill Gates, who has been funding programs all

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Speaker 1: over the planet that are on the surface philanthropic and

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Speaker 1: positive and designed to wipe out tuberculosis or wipe out

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Speaker 1: malaria or whatever. They're all sound great, but what he's

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Speaker 1: done in the process has created a worldwide group think,

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Speaker 1: and so across the planet people decided that they would

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Speaker 1: lock down. Now it's interesting if you go to Japan, Korea, Taiwan,

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Speaker 1: and Singapore, they followed very strict programs that are classic

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Speaker 1: and how you deal with epidemics. They had huge amounts

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Speaker 1: of testing UH and they tracked people UH and and

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Speaker 1: found out exactly who had the disease isolated only the

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Speaker 1: people with the disease kept their economies up and running UH.

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Speaker 1: And as a result, I think in Taiwan they've they've

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Speaker 1: had something like don't don't take this number literally because

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember off the top of my head,

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Speaker 1: but I think they've had something like eighty people die

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Speaker 1: and maybe nine hundred who got COVID because they just

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Speaker 1: they trapped the virus as fast as they could find it,

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Speaker 1: didn't let those particular people spread it, and so the

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Speaker 1: virus died out. UH. Singapore was similar. South Korea has

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Speaker 1: done a great job, Japan did a pretty good job,

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Speaker 1: not quite as good, but all four of those countries

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Speaker 1: are radically better than the western countries at solving this

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Speaker 1: and by the way. It's not purely East and West.

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Speaker 1: The Chinese have done a terrible job and uh simply

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Speaker 1: lie about how many Chinese have died and how many

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Speaker 1: have gotten COVID because it's been much much worse than

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Speaker 1: they're willing although the challenges that uh, you know, COVID

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Speaker 1: is probably not going away. So you could argue that

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Speaker 1: maybe Sweden had the best route where they sort of

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Speaker 1: just you know, allowed COVID to do as a virus does,

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Speaker 1: as it's going to continue to do, and as opposed to,

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Speaker 1: you know, we sort of prolonged what is inevitably going

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Speaker 1: to happen in terms of you know, we're all probably

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Speaker 1: going to get COVID at some point, so it's you know,

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Speaker 1: better to to build up your immune system. But you know, regardless,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it's not just the size of the

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Speaker 1: government in terms of how large governments have grown throughout COVID.

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Speaker 1: It's also corporations and the crushing of small businesses and

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Speaker 1: the crushing of businesses that are more decentralized. It's the

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Speaker 1: centralization of corporations. It's big tech and the growth of

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Speaker 1: big tech and the power that has over our lives.

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Speaker 1: So how do Republicans, which they do with that, which

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Speaker 1: they do with these corporations who have and so big,

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Speaker 1: so powerful, with big tech that has gotten so big

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Speaker 1: and so powerful. Well, look, I think excuse me, I

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Speaker 1: think we should be deeply in favor of genuine free

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Speaker 1: enterprise and genuine entrepreneurship, starting with small businesses. And we

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Speaker 1: should be against chrony capitalism and which when when you

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Speaker 1: see a corporation which values its lobbyists more than its engineers,

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Speaker 1: you know you're dealing with chrony capitalism. And they tend

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Speaker 1: to underperform over price, and they tend to cheat in

431
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: order to crowd out younger, smaller, newer competitors. Uh. And

432
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: so I think we should be in favor of the

433
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: competition and when and you would have a dramatic turnover

434
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: if you go back and look at who were the

435
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: biggest companies in the stock market in it's astonishing how

436
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: few of them are still around because in a really competitive,

437
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 1: dynamic society, there are constantly new people, you know, the

438
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: the Elon Musk of the world, uh, who are inventing

439
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: new things and creating new things, and you want them

440
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: to grow. I mean, we we want not as small businesses,

441
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: we want lots of baby businesses that are capable of

442
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: growing into giants. And then we want to continuous what

443
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: Shompeter called creative destruction. We want a continuous pressure of

444
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: the next wave of new ideas in the next wave

445
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: of new businesses. So I don't object to a Bill

446
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: Gates or Steve Jobs, object to them then trying to

447
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: pull up the drawbridge and block anybody else from competing

448
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: with them. Adam Smith and the Wealth of Nations warned

449
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: that any time businessmen get together for lunch is a

450
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: conspiracy against the consumer. And there's something to that. I mean,

451
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: and in government contracting maybe among the worst. In government

452
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: rules and regulations. If you watch, you'll notice that the

453
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: really big companies love regulations because they have a big

454
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: enough law department and a big enough clerical force that

455
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: they can deal with the regulations. And they know that

456
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: it will have much greater cost per dollar on the

457
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: small companies that are trying to compete with them. So

458
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: you have to always be careful and ask is this

459
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: regulation necessary for the public or is it a gimmick

460
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: by which the current dominant companies crowd out and weaken

461
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: their potential competitors. But I think we should not be

462
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: the you know, the movement or the party of big

463
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: corporations in bed with government. We should be the movement

464
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: and the party in favor of entrepreneurs and startups and

465
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: small businesses and baby businesses. And we should be constantly

466
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: looking at the tax code and the regulatory code to

467
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: make sure that it's not propping up the big guys inefficiently,

468
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: but rather as maximizing the opportunity to compete and to grow.

469
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: But are some of these companies too big to compete with?

470
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: Because we've almost had an artificial resetting of the economy

471
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: with the government coming in and essentially you know, dictating

472
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: the terms by destroying so many businesses in America. So

473
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: are some of these companies too big to just simply

474
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: compete with. They're not too big to compete with as

475
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: long as you insist the competition as possible. They're too

476
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: big to compete with if they can go out in

477
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: a predatory way and destroy you. And so I think

478
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: you've got to look. You've got to look for what

479
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: their behaviors are. But as a general rule, if you

480
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: go back and look at the biggest companies of with

481
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: the possible exception of UH, of Exxon, which was standard oil. Uh.

482
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: Almost none of them have, in fact, in the long run,

483
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: retained that ability because other competitors come along, New technologies

484
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: come along. Things that once work no longer work. Uh.

485
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: Entrepreneurs grow older, and the genius they had when they

486
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: were thirty they don't have when they're seventy. I mean

487
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: some do. There are occasions where you have like Thomas Edison,

488
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 1: who was inventing his whole life and probably invented at

489
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: one point, I think six percent of the economy was

490
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: it was Thomas Edison's personal inventions, um, like the electric

491
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: light in the motion picture. But I think as a

492
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: general principle, Uh, even those folks that are gradually replaced

493
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: because people come along. You know, Vaudeville faced movies, and

494
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: about the time movies were dominant, they faced radio, and

495
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: then they faced television. Uh. And now of course you

496
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: have video, and you have you have cable, and you

497
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: have streaming, and you have this explosion of opportunities whereas

498
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, seventy or eight years ago, you had at

499
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: one point you had one one nationwide channel which was NBC. UH,

500
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: And the world just changed. So I'm I really believe

501
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: that entrepreneurs and technology are constant drivers unless they're cut off. Now,

502
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: they can be cut off because the bigs come in

503
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: and buy them, or they can be cut off because

504
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: government sets up tax policy, or sets up regulatory policy,

505
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: or sets up contracts. I mean, if if government is

506
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: only willing to contract with Boeing and Lockheed Martin and

507
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: and companies of that size, then the smallest artups, who

508
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: often have better solutions at lower cost, can't even get

509
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: into the game. Well and and earlier on the show,

510
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: I said student of history, but I meant just lover

511
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: of history. You're you're an actual historian and a former professor.

512
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: But in addition to that, everyone knows you as being

513
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: the former you know, Speaker of the House, and you

514
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: you were the driver behind, the mastermind, the brainchild of

515
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: the contract with America in when you're a minority whip.

516
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: At the time this was introduced, I believe, six weeks

517
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: before build Bill Clton's first midterm elections, and it was

518
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: really bold because you you outlined to America what Republicans

519
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: would do if they obtained power, and ultimately Republicans went

520
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: on to gain fifty four seats in the House, nine

521
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: seats in the Senate. You know, looking back, why did

522
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: you find that necessary at the time? What was behind that? Ironically,

523
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: the one person who's written about this accurately is Chuck Schumer.

524
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: That's funny, Chumber Rush No, what I actually did a

525
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: press couple event with Schumer. He wrote a book, a

526
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: two thousand seven on on how democracy operates. And in

527
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: his book he had a chapter on the Contract with America.

528
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: And he's the one person understood what we were doing.

529
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: The Contract with America was actually a management tool to

530
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: change the culture of the House Republican Party. Uh. And

531
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: it was it was it was designed to win the election,

532
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: and it was something I had done with Reagan in

533
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: when we had a Capital Steps event, and not only

534
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: did Reagan win by the largest electoral vote margin against

535
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: an incombent president in modern history, but he also carried

536
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: into office a majority in the Senate, which nobody thought possible,

537
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: and we won five senatorial seats by a total of

538
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: seventy five thousand votes. Uh. And I think it was

539
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: because they'd all come together and had this event and

540
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: pledged five positive things, because I think positive matters. Uh. Then,

541
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: and I think it's not enough just to be negative.

542
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: So we both wanted to have an election vehicle, which

543
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: is what the contract was at one level, so people

544
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: would say, oh, if I vote for you, you'll actually

545
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: do positive things. And I'm personally convinced that if we'd

546
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: run a traditional Republican negative campaign, we'd have gained twenty

547
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: five or thirty seats, but we would not have gained

548
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: a majority. Uh. The way it worked, we actually ended

549
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: up gaining fifty four seats. UH. And that was in

550
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: part because, um, we competed everywhere, and it was in

551
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: part because we had this positive vision, which you could

552
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: feel in the candidates. I mean, a candidate who has

553
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: a positive future just feels different than a candidate who's

554
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: angry and negative and only I can't do anything but attack.

555
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: But the second reason we did it was when we

556
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: won the majority, we did not want to become a

557
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: normal party. We didn't want people to show up and say, oh, gosh,

558
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: what am I gonna do now, get captured by the

559
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: lobbyists and the Georgetown social set, go from cocktail party

560
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: to cocktail party and become useless. So we agreed than

561
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: in the first hundred days we would vote on ten

562
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: big items, and the effort it took to get everybody

563
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: lined up to actually keep our word, made us I

564
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: think for about three years, almost four years, a dramatically

565
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: different party than we had been before or that we've

566
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: been since then. So in part, I would argue that

567
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: you you want to have some kind of positive commitment

568
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: that forces your members to actually do what they promised

569
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: to do, or they'll cynically win an election. Uh. And

570
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: in the tradition of Robert Redford and the candidate at

571
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: the very end when he wins, he says, you know, what,

572
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: what do we do now? Because he had you know,

573
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: he was just a candidate. He hadn't thought about actually

574
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: trying to govern. And I think you've got to have

575
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: a movement that wants to fix America's problems, not just

576
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: a movement that wants to hold power, you know. But

577
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: I mean that takes a lot of force. I and

578
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: that takes a lot of boldness to sort of put

579
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: that out there and and to and make that kind

580
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: of contract with the country. Do you think does the

581
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: Republican Party today have that boldness and that foresight. Well,

582
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: I think Kevin McCarthy does. He had a he had

583
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: a commitment to America. Uh. In two thousand and interestingly, UM,

584
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: people thought the Republicans in the House, we're gonna lose

585
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: twenty five seats. They actually gained fifteen. I mean that's

586
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: a swing of forty seats and expectations. Uh. Every seat

587
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: that they picked up they won with either a minority

588
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: member or a woman in some cases a woman who

589
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: was a minority member because he had he'd gone out

590
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: and he recruited to diversify the Republican Party and to

591
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: have a broader based Republican Party. Uh. And I know

592
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: and in my talking with Kevin that he absolutely understands

593
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: us and wants to move in this direction. I think

594
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: the senate's a harder sell. Uh, partly because you know,

595
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 1: in the Senate you only have a handful of races

596
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: that are really tough. Most of the Senators are not

597
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: up for re election. Uh. And of the Senators who

598
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: are up for re election, most are gonna win automatically.

599
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: So you don't have the same reporting to the country.

600
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: And this was by design of the founding fathers that

601
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: they wanted one institution to be a little bit buffered

602
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: away from the country. So it's harder to convince senators

603
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: that they have to actually be positive. Uh, And it's

604
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: uh particularly hard if you're dealing with senators who frankly

605
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: just want power to have power. So my frustration with

606
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: the Republican Party right now is, um, you know, we're

607
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 1: seeing gregious human rights abuses taking place around the world

608
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: right now towards the unvaccinated, of literally creating internment camps

609
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: in certain countries. New York City, you can't go into

610
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: a restaurant if you are unvaccinated. And you know, we're

611
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: talking about a vaccine that has an expiration date that

612
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: you can still get and spread COVID if you get it,

613
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: then that we still don't have a ton of safety

614
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: data for uh. Yet this is being implemented around the world.

615
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: I don't think there are enough Republicans that seem awake

616
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: to what is happening in that regard personally and just

617
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: the total loss of freedom. I just got a note

618
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: last night. Every single Republican in the House has signed

619
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: on to a resolution UH condemning and opposing Biden's effort

620
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: to force private employees employers to to vaccinate, you know,

621
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: to require vaccinations. UH. And I think in that sense,

622
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: you've seen more and more Republicans speaking out against the

623
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: entire you know, big government, police state approach to this stuff.

624
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: And I think that that will continue to grow and

625
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: continue to develop. I think in the Senate you've had

626
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: very similar things that they had a fight the other

627
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: day over insisting on having a vote on an amendment

628
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: about requiring the employers UH to implement government mandates about vaccinations,

629
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: and every Republican voted yes. Every Democrat voted no, which

630
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: was kind of strange. But I think you're gonna see

631
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: You're about to see Mansion and a couple of other

632
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: senators on the Democratic side break and starts voting with

633
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: the Republicans on the vaccine issue, at which point they'll

634
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: start actually passing the Senate UH. And I think that

635
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: they should be aggressive, you know, I think part of

636
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: it is UH and And I'm in the middle of

637
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: reading three different books on the UH, the COVID epidemic,

638
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: and UM. It's hard to overstate how confusing and how

639
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: badly informed the public health community was and how often

640
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: they told people that was simply not true. UH. And

641
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: I think that that has only now are our political

642
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: leaders beginning to realize how much that they have been misled. UH.

643
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: And I think that they overreach by Biden, and by

644
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: Cuomo and by others is beginning to really awaken people

645
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 1: up to the idea that you know, you you can't

646
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: live your whole life, uh worried about one particular flool

647
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: flo like disease, And it's going to turn out in

648
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: the long run, the coronavirus is going to be like

649
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: the flu. In fact, we will lose, will lose. I

650
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: think we'll lose more people to flu than we will

651
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: to to COVID in two thousand twenty two or two

652
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: thou see, I think it's bigger than that, because I'm

653
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: not a scientist, right, but even back in you know

654
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: what was a March of twenty earlier than that, basically

655
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: right after whether April was the fifteen days to slow

656
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: the spread. I was reading stuff by Dr Ian Edis,

657
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: who was outlining basically what you just said, that this

658
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: is likely not as bad as what we think. You

659
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: you could look at surveys even at the beginning or

660
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: study is showing that the majority of people going into hospitalizations. Uh,

661
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 1: we're saying at home, So so we have known quite

662
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: you know, almost this entire time that we were being

663
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: lied to. I just feel like sometimes Republicans sort of

664
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: lay the groundwork for the left as opposed to just

665
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: being bold and brave when it mattered. Because now this

666
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: we've we've already become consumed by these vaccine mandates, consumed

667
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: by the messaging, and Republicans were part of that in

668
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: earlier on and telling everyone to go get vaccinated and

669
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: simply just leaving it to Americans to make their own decisions,

670
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: or even with police shooting, sort of going along and

671
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: saying we need police reform, despite if you look at

672
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: the numbers, it just simply wasn't there that somehow it

673
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: was open season on you know, black people in America.

674
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: That was always a lie. So I just feel like

675
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: sometimes Republicans sort of lack the braveness and the ability

676
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: to fight back when it matters the most, and they

677
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: sort of lay the groundwork for the left. And Trump

678
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: was probably you know, one of the few recently who

679
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: was different in that regard of just rejecting false premises

680
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: from the beginning. Well, I look, I think first of all,

681
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: Trump has been the most effective anti left politician in

682
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: my lifetime. I don't think he's a conservative in the

683
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: William Buckley National Review sense, but I think if your

684
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: interest is breaking up the left. Nobody has done a

685
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: better job than up in my lifetime, not not Reagan,

686
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: not anybody. Uh. Second, um, I think you almost have

687
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: to be Trump's size, you know, with with millions of followers, uh,

688
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: with with the ability to generate noise the way he does,

689
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: in order to do some of the stuff. If you're

690
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: a uh and and there's a real balance you've got

691
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: you know that even a guy like Reagan had to

692
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: follow because you can. You can. You have to select

693
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: which fights you're gonna pick with the media so that

694
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: you don't end up looking like you're a cookie. Because

695
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: the media will hate you, uh. And it's okay for

696
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: them to hate you on one or two things, but

697
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: if they hate you on seven things, they'll begin to

698
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: to erode your ability to be seen as effective. So

699
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: it's it's always a balancing act. I think that the

700
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: larger picture of the elites, not just in the US

701
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: but around the world, uh, exploiting COVID as an opportunity

702
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: need to dramatically expand government. I think that's beginning to

703
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,479
Speaker 1: sink in, and I think there will be a very

704
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: deep reaction to it, and that in the end, in fact,

705
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: government will end up being smaller, not larger, because the

706
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: average American is going to be so deeply distrustful of

707
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: the bureaucracies and and so convinced that it just doesn't work.

708
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: I mean that's the other part. Had had all this

709
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: stuff worked, had you know, had COVID been solved, had

710
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: the school's actually educated people, had had we actually had

711
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: safety in the streets, I think you'd have one attitude.

712
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: But people are normal. Everyday people look around and wait

713
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: a second, the murder rates going up dramatically, The schools

714
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: aren't working, and we have another wave of of COVID

715
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: variant because the strategy was the wrong strategy. Once you've

716
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: got to focus on, I think, is therapeutics and accepting

717
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: the idea that when people do get sick, what you

718
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: want to do is maximize their ability to survive and recover,

719
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: as opposed to trying to contain it through through a

720
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: vaccination only strategy. And it's very clear in retrospect that

721
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: the public health people deliberately i wanted to minimize therapeutics

722
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: because they wanted to force people to become vaccinated. Well,

723
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: it turns out when you're dealing with a rapidly mutating

724
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: uh system, that last year's vaccine maybe of no value,

725
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be able to force the

726
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 1: whole world into getting vaccinated every single year. People are

727
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: just playing gunner rebel. And in Europe you see this

728
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: number is they're very, very big demonstrations in a number

729
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: of European countries against the government because the government has

730
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: now been identified as the enforcer of authoritarian rules that

731
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: affect my body, they don't just affect my pocketbook. Well,

732
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: And I also think the differences. You know, if you

733
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: look at something like the measles or polio, they confer

734
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 1: lifetime immunity, whereas this looks like it's an every six

735
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: month thing. So people are like, you know what, I'm

736
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: not the high risk or I have natural immunity. I

737
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: really don't want to inject something my body that we

738
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 1: don't have a ton of data for every six months

739
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: for you know, god knows how long, right, especially when

740
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: it's not stopping the spread. But you know, I think

741
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: one thing I admired about President Trump was just this

742
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: rejection of false premises, because if you look at before him,

743
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: it was people like Romney, who you know, when he

744
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: was questioned about the war on women and all these

745
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: bogus uh you know, fallacy is that were being pushed

746
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: by the left and the media. He would be like, oh,

747
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: I had buying it is full of what right. He

748
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: would just completely accept the false premise and play into it,

749
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: whereas Trump would just be like, that's a dumb question next,

750
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: you know. So it was just sort of like changed

751
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: the game in terms of how we deal with the media,

752
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: sort of pushing back against uh, you know, these propaganda

753
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: wars that they're always waging on us. I think that's

754
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: why I'd say two things about that. One, Um, if

755
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: you're Mit Romney and you were governor of Massachusetts for

756
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 1: four years and before that you lived in Massachusetts, you're

757
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: just you're surrounded by all these people. And this is

758
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: not a bat negative about mid You're just surrounded by

759
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: all these people who are cuckoo. Uh and you know,

760
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: being cuckoo and Boston as normal. Uh So, things that

761
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: when you were talking over coffee or yes, as as

762
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: a Mormon, he wasn't drinking coffee, when you're talking over

763
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: hot chocolate. Uh. You know, things that people were saying.

764
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: You'd hear it so often you think, Gosh, I guess

765
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: that's okay. Uh. Trump's great ability is that he knows

766
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: what he believes. Uh, He's thought about it for a

767
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: long time. He's actually not automatically a New Yorker or

768
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 1: anything else. He's a person who has uh done business

769
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: and lived all around the world. Uh, and he has

770
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: formed his own opinions, and he actually knows from his

771
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: own experience in New York dealing with Page six and

772
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: with the gossip columns, etcetera, that there's no particular reason

773
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: to believe, uh that the news media is right and

774
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: he's wrong. So he's happy. He's the most cheerful person

775
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: about taking on the news media that I've ever seen.

776
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: And he's so bru alliant, uh coming up with things

777
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: like fake news um as a term. I mean, it's

778
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: just close. And I went to a remarkable museum of

779
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: of of Egyptian artifacts uh in Turn, Italy. I mean

780
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: you would not expect Turn to have the second largest

781
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: Egyptian collection outside of Egypt. But in the mid nineteenth century,

782
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: a guy from Turn had gathered up all this stuff

783
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: tried to sell it to the Louver. They wouldn't pay

784
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: him enough, so he gave it to the government, and

785
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: in turn and they opened this amazing museum and close

786
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: and I were going through it with his tour guide

787
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: and we get to one point he says, you see

788
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: that statue over there, people will tell you X, but

789
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: that's fake news. And I thought to myself, I'm standing

790
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: in turn, Italy looking at an Egyptian collection with an

791
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: Italian guide who's using Donald Trump's language. Uh, And it

792
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: was just to me a stunning example of how much

793
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: Trump had penetrated the world culture, saying, you know, let's

794
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: go break and in science around the world that that

795
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: also seems to inspire in the but not in the

796
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: part we actually that. That's sort of too to me, No, no,

797
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: that's not that's not fair. I give Joe Biden enormous

798
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 1: credit for making Let's Go brand in a worldwide term.

799
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, and I can't imagine what the

800
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: term would be for com But doesn't that say something

801
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: like I feel like almost because you look at Let's Go,

802
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: Brandon and you look at literally so I think I

803
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: was watching like my dad was watching on Thanksgiving, which

804
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not a big soccer fans. I'm

805
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: not sure and he's not either, so I'm not sure. Why.

806
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: I think he just wanted to watch sports. But and

807
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: they were saying, let's it's just it's everywhere around the

808
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: country and it's global as well. Do you think we're

809
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: sort of downplaying the significance of that because it almost

810
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: seems like this massive grassroots movement that is intentionally being ignored. Well,

811
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: it is, And of course the somebody wrote a brilliant

812
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: essay that then pointed out, let's go Brandon is as

813
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: much against the news media as it is against Biden.

814
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: It's it's, it's it was. It was a crowd chanting

815
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: and it was misinterpreted, as you remember, by this NBC

816
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: reporter who was trying to pretend that they weren't saying

817
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: what they were saying, and so she said, oh, they're

818
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: saying let's go Brandon because Brandon was the the driver

819
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: who just won the race. That caught on instantly, and

820
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: it was as much mocking the news media for lying

821
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: about what people were saying as it was mocking Joe Biden.

822
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 1: And there's a great cartoon where somebody had Jill saying,

823
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: please quit saying that he now thinks his name is Brandon.

824
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 1: I saw that. That's funny, you know, So sir, you've

825
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: I mean you've dealt with the media, right, you were

826
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: in political office at the you know, some of the

827
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: highest levels. Uh, you've dealt with this for a long time.

828
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: You've observed it as a historian as well. Has the

829
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: media always been this corrupt? You know? It's interesting John

830
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: McCann and I shared the distinction of being listed on

831
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: television as our dash media rather than our home state. Uh,

832
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: the because we both were on media so much. Uh No,

833
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: it hasn't always been this corrupt. I think I think

834
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 1: that it what happened was the left. The left believes

835
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: in a series of lies. I always tell people, if

836
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: you want to understand the Left, imagine that they saw

837
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: The Lion King as a documentary and they actually believe

838
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: the lions and Zebras sing and dance together, which both

839
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: explains how they try to handle Putin and jij and

840
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: ping and also why they're constantly out of touch with reality. Well,

841
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: the challenge on the left is what they believe is

842
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: a lie, and you have to prop up a lie

843
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: every single day, and because it's a lie, you end

844
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: up having to say things that they're simply plain not true. Now,

845
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: the news media was always I would say, uh, cynical

846
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: uh and and was partly because it's covering human beings

847
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: and that tends to can lead one to cynicism. But

848
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: if you go back and look at that, uh say,

849
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: the Front Page, which was both a play and then

850
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: a terrific movie in the thirties, and it's been remade

851
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: two or three times since then. I mean there's a

852
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: lot of cynicism among the reporters. Uh and and uh

853
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 1: h l Mencken was as trenchant a social observer has

854
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: ever wrote for a newspaper. And and he's writing in

855
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: the twenties and thirties uh and is amazingly insightful and

856
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: at the same time uh giving you his opinion and

857
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 1: his biases. But I think what happened was the idealism

858
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: of the early sixties when they were covering the Vietnam War,

859
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: they were covering the civil rights movement. Uh. That gradually

860
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: began to give way to a group think. And it's

861
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: part of what what theater was writing about. That if

862
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: if you in order to be acceptable with the New

863
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: York Times today, and I asked this of a great

864
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 1: reporter who's now writing books about um, Alex Barnson who's

865
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: writes writes books now about things like COVID and the

866
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 1: Group think in the degree to which it's a lie.

867
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: And I asked Alex as he was in the ninety

868
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: nineties a terrific reporter at the New York Times, and

869
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: he said he could not work at the Times today,

870
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: that he's not left wing enough and he's not willing

871
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: to walk around a lie about what he believes, and

872
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: so the Time simply would find him unacceptable. And I

873
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: think that we see that happening with the Washington Post.

874
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: You see it happening with NBC and CBS and with

875
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: the others. Although we're about to see an interesting experiment,

876
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: CNN is doing so badly in terms of its ratings

877
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: that the new team is taking over from the Discovery

878
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: Channel has said that they want to return it to

879
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: being a news channel rather than an opinion channel, and

880
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: that will be a very interesting experiment if they actually

881
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: can pull it off, and it will be a wrenching

882
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: blow to the culture of the CNN system as it

883
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: currently exists. Quick break more speaker New Gingrich author Beyond

884
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: Biden after the break, Why I do believe group thinks

885
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: he shoot a problem right now that was the whole

886
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: point of really this podcast and just thinking we have

887
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: a crisis of a lack of critical thinking in the

888
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: country right now. You know, sir, do you think President

889
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: Trump runs again? Well, I think he's been very clear

890
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: to and we've had this conversation, but with everybody, I

891
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: know that if his health is good enough, he'll run,

892
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: but he will not run if his doctor thinks that

893
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: he is entering his health problems. He he's very aware

894
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: of how fragile and how embarrassing Joe Biden is, and

895
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: he has and he's not that much younger than Biden,

896
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: and he has no interest in ending up winning and

897
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: serving uh. Sort of a guy who's lost it and

898
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: can't do it very well. At the same time, UM,

899
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: I don't think he would run if he was convinced

900
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: he to lose. You know, you could. You can lose once,

901
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: and you can you can say it was stolen and

902
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: you can blame people, but if you lose twice as

903
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: a repudiation, So I think he has to have to

904
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: criteria a belief that he could win, uh, and a

905
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 1: belief that he will physically be able to serve out

906
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: four years UH and do so with with mental acuity.

907
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: If those two things are there, I think that he

908
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: will he will run, and my guess is he'll be

909
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: the nominee. I can't imagine anybody who could take him,

910
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: partly because you know, you'd end up in a debate

911
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: with Donald Trump on the stage and he would annihilate you.

912
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's nobody who's going to debate Donald Trump.

913
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: Uh and and and win the debate. Still remember the

914
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: line just roseio' Donald. Uh. You know, if if not Trump,

915
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: is it de Santis? Well, I think if not Trump

916
00:52:54,440 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: is wide open. De Santis is one of the front runners. Uh, Pompeo, Pennce,

917
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 1: Nicky Haley. Um, the number of people who would show

918
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: up and run would be astonishing. Uh. You'd have three

919
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: or four senators, three or four governors, a couple of

920
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: cabinet officers. So the field would be a little bit

921
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: like two thousand and fifteen when they were I think

922
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: sixteen people running. Uh. And DeSantis would certainly have huge advantages.

923
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: He's been a very effective governor. But but I would say,

924
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people might decide to show

925
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 1: up and play, and uh, you can't you can't tell

926
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: until they get out there. For a while, who's going

927
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: to have staying power and who's going to actually connect

928
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: with the American people. I mean, if not trumpets de

929
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: Santis for me, I just I I think he is

930
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: the best politician. I mean I literally moved to Florida

931
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: because of him and the fact that I left New

932
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: York City, communist New York City to move to freedom

933
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: here in Florida. Best decision I've ever made. He's a

934
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: remarkable governor. Uh. You know so, So if not Trump

935
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: De Santis for me, I'll say it now. I don't care,

936
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,439
Speaker 1: but it you know. So, looking ahead for the Republican Party,

937
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: looking at the mid terms and beyond, what does that

938
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: look like for Republicans? What does that future look like?

939
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: One thing is almost certain and one thing that we

940
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: don't know that there's certain almost certainty is that they're

941
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: going to win control of the House and probably pick

942
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: up seats in the Senate. I think that uh. And

943
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: I've written about this at Kingiver sixty in a series

944
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: of newsletters. I think you're facing not not just a wave,

945
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: but a tsunami because I think when you go out

946
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: and you ask people, uh, and we just did a video.

947
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: Uh the runs about three minutes in which we talk

948
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: about the big government socialism isn't working. I mean you

949
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: can go stand by any gas station in America and

950
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: as people fill up their car, asked them, you know,

951
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: do you think this is working? And they're gonna say no.

952
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: So I think we're gonna win in twenty two, probably

953
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 1: by a huge margin. And the question then is can

954
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: we govern? I mean, just being the anti Biden party

955
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: is not a formula for long term majority, and frankly,

956
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 1: more importantly, it's not a formula for solving America's problems.

957
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: And we have really big problems, and we could be

958
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: in real danger of losing the country, both in competition

959
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: with China and in this general decay of our civilization.

960
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: And I think that solving those problems is huge, and

961
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: the Republican Party has to become the vehicle for solving them.

962
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 1: And it's it's easier right now for me to see

963
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: how we can win than it is for me to

964
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: see how we become a dynamic, creative problem solving party.

965
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: That's a lot bigger change than just winning. Are those

966
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: problems solvable? Sure of course they are. We're a great country,

967
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: and look if you could survive in eight years taking

968
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: on the British Empire when you were a tiny country

969
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: down at one point to about people in the army

970
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: that that were effective. Uh and and in the end

971
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: we won. UH. If you're a country that could survive

972
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: a brutal civil war in which six d twenty thousand

973
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: Americans were old. And if you're a country which could

974
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: simultaneously take on Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan

975
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: uh and then spend almost fifty years defeating the Soviet Empire. UM.

976
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: I don't see any you know, I have. I have

977
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: a really simple test. There are a lot more people

978
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: trying to get in and are trying to get out.

979
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: So are We're still a very desirable country with a

980
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: great future, and we still attract an enormous amount of

981
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: talent uh and Um. As long as those things are true,

982
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: unless unless we just work overtime through government to screw

983
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: it up, we are probably going to be the most

984
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: powerful and most dynamic country in the world. And and

985
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: only the immediate ten or twenty years. The danger of

986
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: North Korea, Iran, Russia, and China, nuclear war, Islamic terrorism,

987
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: those are the only things that worry me. If we

988
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: if we figure out how to get past them. We will,

989
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,919
Speaker 1: in fact, by the end of the century once again

990
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: be the center of freedom, and I suspect freedom will

991
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 1: be spreading across the planet goes on balance, most people

992
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: actually would rather be free than be slave to some

993
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: tolitary and dictator. See, sir, we needed your wisdom. So

994
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm so, I'm glad to have you to

995
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: be able to, you know, look back on history and

996
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: really examine this for all of us and give these

997
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: honest and astute answers. I just want to say, at least,

998
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of what you've done. I'm very excited

999
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: by your your abilities, and your passion and your commitment

1000
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: to America. Well, that's an honor coming from you, sir,

1001
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: So I have an utmost amount of respect for you.

1002
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: Beyond Biden is out. You know, anything else you want

1003
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: to leave us with before we go, sir, no, I

1004
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: would say the last of the first stanza of our

1005
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: national anthem, the Land of the Free and the home

1006
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: of the brave. As long as we're brave, we will

1007
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: be free. I love that, speaker, New Gingrich, complete honor.

1008
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time, sir, Thanks so

1009
00:57:52,280 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: much for coming on the show. Thank you m H.

1010
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: I want to thank Speaker new Gingridge for a great interview,

1011
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: and I want to thank you guys at home for listening.

1012
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's show, please leave us a review,

1013
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,919
Speaker 1: rate us five stars on Apple Podcast. You can find

1014
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, at least and rebooth. Thanks

1015
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: to our team Producer John Cassio, executive producers Debbie Myers,

1016
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,959
Speaker 1: and Speaker new Gingridge, all part of the Gangridge three

1017
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: sixty network and team