WEBVTT - Clay Travis talks with Kirk Herbstreit 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.600 This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis, play talks 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.720 with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:21.720 Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in Wins and Losses podcast. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.800 I am Clay Travis. Appreciate you guys listening to us 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.560 and joining the series of Wins and Losses. If this 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.360 is your first and we're about to talk with Kirk 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.480 curb Street, I think you guys will really enjoy going 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.640 back and checking out a lot of our other guests, 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.400 whether it's Shant Terry who founded seven Sports and Rivals, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.840 Paul Findbaum, Mike Leach, Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports national columnists. 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.080 We have been all over the place, Jason Whitlock talking 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.120 to a lot of different people in the world of sports, media, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.520 politics and business. And today we bring in Kirk hurb Street, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.440 a fellow Nashville and at least for the past several years, 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.200 but he has been I would say, the face of 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.480 college football all for basically the last twenty years. And Kirk, 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.679 I appreciate you you coming on with us, and I 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.840 want to start back when you were growing up in 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.200 Ohio and I know your dad is a college football coach. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.280 If I could have gone back in time when you're 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.679 eighteen years old and about to go off to Ohio 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.760 State and say, one day you will be the face 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.320 of college football. Would you have thought that meant that 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.559 you would win two or three Heisman Trophies or would 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.520 you have thought that it might be media related? Man, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.640 First of all, it's it's great to be with you. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.480 Always enjoy our team, the chance to talk to you. Um, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:36.600 if you would have said that for me, you got 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.120 to go back now. That would have been in the 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.680 in the mid the late eighties. You know, there was 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.160 no such thing as the Internet, there's no such things 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.280 as social media. So you have to kind of go 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:51.520 way back and and and appreciate where we were in 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.880 that in that time. So if you would have said 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.000 that to me, I would have definitely thought because it 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.480 back then it was Keith Jackson and it was just 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.000 everybody else. You know, there was there was just if 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.240 there was a game on Saturday, you know, you kind 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.360 of watched that game and there might be a few 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.480 other games on, but you really they really weren't kind, 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:18.680 they didn't really resonate, And so I would have definitely said, 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:20.440 if I'm the face of the sport I would have 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:25.240 had there have won the Heisman or national championships and 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.080 and let Keith Jackson call my games, you know, to 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:29.840 be able to be on the cover of s I 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.919 you know kind of thing. But man, it's incredible how 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.080 much you know, and I know you can really appreciate 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.400 this being in the media. It's just incredible how much 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.960 things have changed from you know, when you when you 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.840 just had a handful of college football games and teams 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.519 like Notre Dame or Tennessee or Home State, those big 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.800 brand names had such a distinct of advantage because they 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.880 all their games typically maybe we're on TV even if 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.200 they were regionally televised, whereas now, I mean, geeze, like 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.680 everybody's on TV every weekend. There's probably four of your 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.200 fifty games. Uh that that at your fingertips. So it's 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.320 just a different world that we all live in today. 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.080 All right, let's go back to you as a kid 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.400 growing up. Uh, And we'd like to start, like for 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.040 people out there who are listening for the first time 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.360 or if you just come in, the concept is wins 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.920 and losses and kind of going through how you end 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.880 up where you are. And obviously you are in and 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.320 have been in a prominent position in college football for 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.720 a long time. But growing up, were you a guy 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.440 who played every sport imaginable? Was football your first to love? 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.440 How would you kind of assess your coming of age 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.840 when you were playing sports growing up? I was. I 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:46.080 was a seasonal depending on the season was my sport. 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.320 So if you asked me what was my favorite sport 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.960 in the spring and the summer, I would have said baseball, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.600 we had it out, is my favorite sport. And then 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.240 is the the leaves changed and the football's came out. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.400 I was not only playing football like on a team 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.760 I started in fifth grade, but I was I was 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.600 big into backyard football, you know. I mean we would 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.160 and I was always organized, and I get the lawnmiller 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.040 out and I cut the lines, you know, in the 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.720 in the to make the field, and I mean there 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.320 was a lot of work that we went into our 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.839 backyard football games that I played in. And my parents 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.960 divorced when I was about eight or nine. So I 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.120 was trying to explain this to my boys because they've 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.080 they've had a lot of more stability in their life 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.960 other than we moved from Ohio to Nashville. But I 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.840 was trying to explain to them, Guys, you have to imagine, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.480 you know, you went to basically to school. You went 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.000 to an elementary school and to a to a high school. 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.719 I said, I probably moved from the time I was 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:52.039 in second grade until ninth grade. I'll probably moved five times, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.559 five or six times. I moved around a lot. Um 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:57.760 but one thing, and I was a shot, very very 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:02.640 shy kid. Um painfully shy, Like my face would get 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:07.240 really red and he was embarrassing, and people would kind 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.480 of laugh and laugh at me because my face would 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.560 get so red. And the one constant that I had 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.720 the kind of let me because I was imagine being 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.120 a quiet kid and and moving a lot. That's a 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.279 hard thing on a kid. And the one thing that 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:26.840 that kind of gave me a chance was was gem 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.680 and recess because I could at least hold my own 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.880 in those areas whenever we had, you know, a chance 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.400 to be outside to play. And so for me, I 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.359 had no idea what I was doing, um as I 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.400 was moving around and being kind of the shy new kid. 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.520 But thankfully playing sports kind of opened up doors for 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.240 for me at least meet friends. In fact, it's funny 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.160 when I go back and see people in high school, 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:59.800 especially teachers. They cannot believe that my job is speaking 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.960 of millions of people on Saturdays now, because because I 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:05.880 wouldn't get up, I wouldn't get up in front of 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.039 class and give a speech. I would just take a zero. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.240 Like I'm literally would just not do it. I was 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.840 terrified to get up in front of the class to 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.479 give a give a speech. And now it's ironic that 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.960 I'm obviously doing what I've been doing for the last years. 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.360 How did you overcome that? Because there's a lot of 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.000 people out there, you know, they had the I think 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.159 Seinfeld had their routine where he said, like, uh, you know, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.760 they're the biggest fears in life. Number one is public speaking. 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:35.840 Number two is death. And he's like, so, if you 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.760 had to choose, you know, like doing the eulogy for 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.120 a lot of people is worse than being the guy 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.840 in the casket, right like in terms of fear, which 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.320 is funny to think about, but I'm sure there are 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.160 a ton of people listening to us right now who 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.080 have that fear. You know, standing up in front of 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.520 people and talking is just such an overwhelming experience. I 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.520 was having this conversation with my oldest son. He's eleven, 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.000 and he was terrified to do the school spelling be 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:02.480 because he didn't want to stand up in front of 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.440 everybody and have to spell right. And I feel like 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.440 there's a lot of kids out there, certainly who have 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.800 been in that position before. So you talked to millions 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.440 of people now. I think the biggest audiences that have 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.160 ever watched college football games have watched the games that 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.800 you call. How do you go from complete fear stage 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.040 fright too, being so comfortable on the stage like you 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.720 are now. I have no idea other than I'm doing 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.560 something I love, I tell you. I think being the 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:36.680 quarterback at Ohio State, especially my senior year where I 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.120 was voted captain, and when you're the captain in school 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.040 like that, you're you're kind of a mouthpiece, not just 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.200 for yourself, but a lot of times for the team. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.760 So you know, these a lot of these sec big 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.040 ten media luncheons, you know, when I was a senior, 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.760 I went to that and that was really the beginning 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:58.360 of me maybe getting comfortable in my own skin because 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.360 you're sitting there and there's fifty microphones in front of 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.480 your face and ten or fifteen different cameras around you, 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.200 and that became a kind of a weekly occurrence for me, 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.040 um where you would just kind of wold court with 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:16.559 the media and it was all impromptu, just kind of 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.240 winging it um, you know, with the media. After you know, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.520 certain practices during the week, they would open it up 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:23.800 to the media, and a lot of times I was 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.120 kind of the guy that would go out and talk 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.800 to him. And I think just by doing that, it 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.800 got me to get really comfortable um in in speaking. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:38.480 And what I found was I got more and more 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.319 comfortable with my job speaking on air where there was 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.520 a local radio, initially in Columbus and eventually at ESPN. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:47.560 But if you asked me to speak in front of 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:52.440 forty people, I would be really uncomfortable. So I found 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:56.920 that was even in my probably I could speak and 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.920 sending millions of people on TV and be hey, but 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.040 if I got in front of thirty people or forty 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.520 people and I had to stand up in a room 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.040 and speak, I would go back to being a kid 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.240 and having that fear. And I the only thing I 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.480 can think of that allowed me to overcome it, as 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.120 we're just speaking right now, is repetition. You know, just 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.559 the more I did it, the more I got comfortable 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.360 with it, and I get asked to do those quite 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.600 a bit, and I kind of have a rule with 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.760 my agent said, you know, especially with family at home, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.920 as much as I travel in the fall, and it's 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.360 just something I have to do, I'd rather pass on 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.040 all of those kind of requests because it's not worth 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:50.080 the turmoil to this day that I go through um 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.840 to give to travel somewhere to give a speech. I'd 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.880 rather just be at home and hanging out with my kids, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.200 my wife than deal with it. So I don't if 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.400 I've quite overcome it. I'm more at ease with it 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.720 than I have been in the past because I do 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.520 it so much. But I don't know. I don't know 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.880 if I'm that guy that's like, oh it's easy, no problem, 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.240 just stand up there, you know, you just talk. You know, 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.160 I'm not you seem to hear that guy. You You 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.960 seem like you could get up in front of anybody 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.560 and and give a speech. I'm just not that guy, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.240 and I'm I'm eating to this day. I do it, 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.800 but I manage it. I don't thrive or like really 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.920 enjoy it. You know what's funny is I think I 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.600 had that fear and and have for a long time. Um, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.120 but I just got so used to it. And it's 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.120 interesting because it is such a fear. Um. I noticed 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.920 it in high school, like I was the student body president. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:46.600 I would have to get up and talk in front 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.480 of the students, and I feel like that was where 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.320 it kind of I got used to it. And I 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.440 really don't think about it at all now in any way, 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.800 And I don't know, I think that that is interesting, 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.480 the repetition of whether you have to do it enough 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.720 times where you stopped towards you You know, you don't 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.760 really think about it or worry about it very much. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.320 But it is interesting because I do think that there's 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.360 this idea when people here see you talking. I think 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:10.960 it was interesting that you brought it up in front 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.800 of millions of people that you must have always been 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.320 comfortable doing it, and oftentimes comfort comes with repetition, even 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.800 if it's not natural, right, And I do think that's 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.480 that's very true. So let's go back. You said you 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.640 were good. You're traveling around going to a bunch of 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:32.000 different elementary schools. When did you realize you said you had, 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.160 you know, some kind of athletic ability and that would 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.079 help in recess and and such things to help interact 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.120 with the kids. When did you start thinking, Hey, maybe 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.080 one day I could go play a college in college 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.160 football or college baseball. Maybe at the time, when did 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.000 you start thinking it might be possible. Uh, there's a 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:55.319 specific game. UM my school that I went to, Centerville 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.440 High School in the in the Dayton area that and 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.160 it's it's actually it's it's not known for year in 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:05.400 and year out developing Division one players, but they've had, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.199 um ironically some guys that have played not only in college, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.520 but have made it and gone on to the NFL. 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.480 And so when I was playing, it's one of the 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.520 schools you typically don't play till a year senior. You know, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.760 some cases you'll play as a junior just because there's 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.760 so many guys out and it's had such such a 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:28.040 good tradition. So going into my junior year, we were 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.720 playing at the time a team that was ranked in 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.000 how USA today comes out with their ranks, and they 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.800 were ranked number one in the country, school called Cincinnati 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.400 Princeton that just had a lot of a lot of 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.719 great athletes and an incredible program, and we're playing on 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.680 the road at their school. And if Las Vegas said 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.000 as wine, in that game, we were probably an underdog 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.400 by three or four touchdowns. I mean, they were supposed 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.839 to They had about ten Division one kids and they 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.160 were really loaded, and we're supposed to get worked. And 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.880 it was my first start of my career, my first 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.160 and as a junior, and we somehow ended up getting 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.199 into the fourth quarter with them, about three minutes to go, 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.319 they were up by a touchdown. We score to make 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.880 a twenty one to twenty and our coach came out 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.360 and asked us, you know, collectively in the huddle, you 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.960 guys want to go for one or go for two, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:19.880 and we all yelling at him, you know, we want 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.520 to go for two. And we went for two, and 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.559 we ended up making it, and I ended up scoring 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.480 that that extra point or that the two pointer. And 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.960 back then it was it was a very different world 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:36.600 and how you could relate or relate communicate with recruits. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.240 At that point, had never received a letter in my life. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:44.520 And the monday after that game we beat that school, 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.360 was a head coach at the highest state had sent 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:53.560 a telegram uh to me saying that he had heard 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.280 about my game, and I was excited about it, and 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.880 you know, he highest state as a school and he 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.960 really consider and here I grew up a passionate college 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.439 football fan. And as he said, my dad coached in 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.959 Ohio State with Woody and with both Shimba Quitter and 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.680 then actually went with both to Miami and Ohio to 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.240 help start create the cradle of coaches. So college football 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.600 was just in my d n A. And so from 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.120 my first letter to ever come to me was from 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.880 Ohio State and from the head coach himself. Uh, it 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.960 definitely was like an eye opener for me that I 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.640 didn't I was just trying to win a starting job, 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.880 and next thing I know, after one start, there's a 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:36.880 head coach Ohio State reaching out to me. So I 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:41.720 think right after that game, I realized, wow, you know, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.640 because I had to be I was six three and 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.320 about a hundred and probably eighty five pounds as a junior, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.520 so I had a guess the size, and it was 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.720 just a matter of really just fine tuning my skill 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.760 set and just trying to, uh to get better and better. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.080 But that was probably looking back at it now, that 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.680 was probably the moment realized, Wow, this might actually happen 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.960 for me. What were your stats like in that game 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:15.920 that you guys won. Do you remember a running quarterback? Yeah? 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.120 In fact, we are like a lot of teams in 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.200 that era. We ran the vier And then going into 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.960 that year, my head coach, who is kind of an 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.840 old school kind of like a drill instructor from the Marines, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.080 just an old and tough guy, he traveled out to 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.560 Colorado Springs, which is an entire staff and they wanted 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.280 to learn about the option and the triple option out 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.840 of the wishbone, and so they spent a week out 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:48.680 there with the Air Force Academy and figured out all inside. Now, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:56.120 we truly ranched option from the wishbone formation, so we 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.480 had just switched to uh that ball offense in so, yeah, 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.240 we were much more of a of a run oriented 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.440 I probably that year. I would guess as a year 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.200 went on, we ended up throwing more. But I would 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:12.440 guess I ave reached probably fifteen twenty passes a game. 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.160 I would I would I just guessing off the top 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.520 of my head. And in that particular game, I think 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.960 we definitely ran the ball more than we threw. I 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.280 probably ended up throwing for I don't guess hundred fifty 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.120 hundred seventy yards in that game, but I think I 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.360 probably ran through maybe eighty or ninety in that game. 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.080 I would guess that, Uh, I was I was kind 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.360 of your typical today's game. I would have fit in 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.480 perfectly because I was your typical kind of dual guy. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:45.960 But I got it. I think I got on the 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.720 map more as a runner, uh than I than I 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.800 did as a passer, especially early my my high school career. 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.920 What did it feel like to score that two point 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.520 conversion you're starting your first I mean, is that still 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.600 one of the greatest FeAs in our life? Oh? Yeah, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.000 Like I can remember like it was yesterday, and I 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.320 try to talk to my boys about that all the time. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.520 You have moments and opportunities that that will live with 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.520 you for the rest of your lives, and you don't 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:15.360 realize that at the time. But especially that moment. We were, 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.760 as I said earlier, we were such a big underdogs 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.280 for our school where we went. I mean, when we 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.320 went to play somewhere, you know, we would bring you know, 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.440 four or five six or five four or five six 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.119 thousand fans on the road, like this is old school 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.600 and high school football is passionate. I mean, they're our 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.679 home games will be ten or twelve thousand people. You know, 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:37.880 you go on the road and your fans are traveling 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.040 about where you go, and big student body goes on 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.359 the road. I mean, it just meant a lot to 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.240 our community. And so to win a game like that 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.080 and just to have euphoria in our homestead all the 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.480 way stands because we're on the road. It's it's it's 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:59.200 just it's the first time you realize, holy cow, look 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.400 look at the hysteria. Look look what's going on here, 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.840 and look how happy everybody is, and you realize that 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.560 it's the first time in your life the magnitude of 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.760 what you're doing is not just middle school football or 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.760 you know, peewee football like it's very and it states 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:22.439 like Ohio and Texas and in Florida and Georgia, I 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.280 mean high school football for for these people, it's it's 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.320 a way of life. And I just happened to be 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.520 at a school and and that that particular night playing 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.800 against the school where it was sold out stadium, standing 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.400 room only, and to make your first start, Yeah, you don't, 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.720 you don't forget something like that. Was your dad there? Yeah, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:44.960 oh yeah, my family would come to all my games 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.639 and um, just yeah, he was I can't imagine, you 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.800 know what what he was experiencing them. I thought it 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.400 was really cool about trying to and I now experienced 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.479 it myself having my own cares, so he kind of 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.880 felt like he had his run and now it's kind 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.720 of my turn. And he would always try his best 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.560 to kind of stay back, and he was not. He 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.400 was the opposite of one of those that it's like, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.239 you know, out front trying to show everybody who he is, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.719 and he was the opposite. He would stay in the 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.360 corner and just try to be quiet and be by himself. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.560 And even after the game when I come out of 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.960 the locker room, he you know, he he'd be out 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.800 there with with my mom and the rest of my family. 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:32.040 But it wasn't like it was him and then everybody else. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.280 He was just kind of one of the group, which 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.600 I always really appreciated. I'm curious on this and we're 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.400 gonna get I want to go back to your recruitment 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.240 and go into Ohio State and stuff too. But you 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.720 mentioned your dad and you've got I think four boys, 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.720 if I'm not mistaken, and they've all been involved in 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.600 athletics a variety of different ages and different sports. Um, 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.680 I I had as I'm curious what kind of parent 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.560 you are watching their athletic events. I want to tell 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.359 you a story. Uh this past season, like my eight 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.359 year old is playing basketball and I'm not coaching. I 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.200 coaches a little league team. I'm one of the assistant coaches. Uh. 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:07.800 So I get used to kind of talking to the 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.400 team and everything else, and so I'm talking to him 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.440 during the game, right like, hey, you got a man up, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.399 you know, because it's eight year old basketball. Like they 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.920 don't get back on defense, like they'll drive you crazy, right. Uh. 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.359 And I'm not coaching the whole team. I'm just trying to, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.200 you know, get get my kid because he plays better 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:23.800 when he When I'm like, hey, you know, get back 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.560 on defense or whatever. My wife turns. My wife turns 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.720 to me, and she says, you can't do this. I said, 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:30.480 what do you mean I can't do that? She says, you're, 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.320 you know, a somewhat public figure because you're in the 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.160 world of sports, and people in this gym are going 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.280 to know who you are, and they're gonna be like, oh, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:42.040 there's Clay Travis coaching his his kids, And I don't 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:43.840 really think about that at all when I'm watching my 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.719 kids play. And I'm sure you're the same way, Like 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:47.960 I'm just a dad, right, I'm just a dad, just 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.720 like or just like everybody else who's in there. But 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:52.760 in my mind, then she's talking to me, and now 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.040 I'm trying to consciously thinking, oh, you know, like people 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.639 might also be paying attention to how I'm watching my kids. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.959 You have to have thought about that and dealt with 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.000 it way more than I have. How do you go 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.000 and watch your kids play sports and just be a dad? 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:16.520 Great question, um. I started off probably around the ages 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.720 of your boys when my my my identical twins who 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.840 my oldest nineteen now, they just left home about a 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:30.600 month ago to go to Clemson, and when they played 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:35.320 baseball because I am I'm a big baseball guy baseball, 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.720 and I tried to coach uh them when they were 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:46.359 at seven, eight nine range, and I quickly found that 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:51.119 I have serious issues, like I have a know, I 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.399 know exactly what I'll tell you another story. I have 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:58.160 a I have a competitive problem, like I can't I 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.840 can't just be like to not just my kids, but 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.280 kids in general. No, that was good. Good. Try can't 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.840 do it. I can't do it. So I I quickly 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.600 after a couple of embarrassing moments, you know, and when 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.600 I just my competitive spirit just got the best of me, 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.640 I quickly said, Okay, having a good relationship with my 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:25.479 boys is way more important. And like winning the league 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.720 at eight U baseball, so I I decided to kind 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:34.440 of go into the stands and just clap and just 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.720 not talk um at all. That that was there was 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.200 a turning point there, and it was just a summer 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.320 baseball team. So yeah, I've never had to worry about 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.960 who's watching me now in the stands, I get excited 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:48.680 and elbow my wife or if there's someone sitting next 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.240 to me. I use my hands a lot, so I'll 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.480 push somebody or or elbow somebody, you know, in a 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.440 in a fun way, not like um. But yeah, that 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:03.440 that's all I do now. I And and uh, watching 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.159 parents today, it't it crazy? Especially sports? I mean you 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.000 must have you must have some great stories of of 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.360 folks that you've seen. Oh look, I mean this is 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.200 this is me. I was coaching third base recently. All right, 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.720 and uh, we're gonna throw to third, and it's runners 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.240 on first and second, one out. We're playing a team, 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:22.840 a good team in the league, right, the team that 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:24.760 was going to go on and win. So this groundball 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:27.239 kind of gets misplayed a little bit, gets picked up, 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.240 thrown to third. Our guy beats it easy right, like 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.880 it's should be basis loaded, one out, umpire. Umpire calls 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:35.600 him out. I got a perfect view on it, like 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:38.399 it's an awful call. And I'm like, oh, you know, 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.400 like so how much how much do you argue? Because 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.359 the year before we lost a game because a runner 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:46.920 was called out for running outside the base paths because 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.439 he was trying to avoid running over a shortstop fielding 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.240 a ball, right, and the the head coach, yeah, that's 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:57.080 exactly right. Yeah. So last year we were like we 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.040 should have said something because it was the wrong call 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:00.879 and it cost our kids game. But we didn't want 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:03.639 to be the dads who were like, you know, overreacting. 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.480 But we're like, hey, if the rule gets blown, like 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.000 you should, you know, like it's it's so I said 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:11.360 to the umpire, said, hey you missed that one, and 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:13.919 he and and so as I'm jogging off the field. 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:16.760 I I stopped to him and I say, hey, like 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:18.600 you just I mean that wasn't really very close. I 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:20.159 mean he was all the way on the bag, like 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:22.800 about to stand up, and you called him out and 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:26.240 the umpire said I don't care. And I was like, 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.520 all the things you could say to me, I don't 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:34.160 care is the worst thing you could say, like your 0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:37.800 only job, Like, hey, I'm sorry. I saw Yeah, that's 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.639 exactly what I said. And then I kept going and 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.720 eventually like somebody had to come out into like I 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.160 kept but I was like when he said I don't care, 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.359 that was like it set me off. I was like, 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:50.760 of all the things you could say to somebody when 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:53.120 you miss a call, hey, I saw it differently, Hey, 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:54.520 I'm my bad. You know, we'll try to make it 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:56.639 up to you later, like you know you could like 0:24:57.320 --> 0:24:59.840 there's some sort of it was a private conversation, but 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.840 I don't care. I don't care. I was like, well, 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:06.280 you're getting paid. This is not for free, right, Like 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.160 you're being paid the best you The least you could 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:11.440 do is at least try to get the call right. 0:25:11.520 --> 0:25:13.959 And if you miss one and you get called on it, 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:16.560 then at least have the gumption to say, you know what, 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:25.200 I missed that one. That's my bad. Oh oh, well, 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.080 that's that's funny. Like so I jogged over. Another parent 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.000 came over and he was like, you just gotta leave 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:31.480 him alone. I know. He blew it, like you just 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:33.760 gotta stop talking. And it was like, yeah, it was 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:35.920 like you know, probably a seventeen or eighteen year old kid. 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:37.639 He's like, you're just lucky he wasn't looking at his 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.720 phone when the play happened. Uh was what the was 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:42.080 what the other parents said. And by the way, this 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.240 is wins and losses. I'm Clay Travis. We're talking with 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:47.879 Kirk curb Street. Um, so that that's the balancing act, right, 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:50.520 is UH trying to figure out? And you just mentioned it. 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.240 While you mentioned it, You've got sons at Clemson, you 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.520 went to Ohio State. You talk about every college football 0:25:56.560 --> 0:26:00.439 program under the sun. You have relationships probably bly with 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:04.480 coaches and training staff and everybody else on every program, 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:07.840 major program, certainly in the country. How in the world 0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:11.720 do you avoid, uh, making people think that you are 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:14.080 incredibly biased one way or there. This is something we 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:16.640 talked about before privately, but it's the number one thing 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:19.960 in a social media ages, you're doing game day, you're 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.640 calling a game, you give an opinion, and people immediately decide, Oh, 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:25.840 it's because you're in favor of X team and you're 0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:28.679 against YE team. You're pro the SEC, you're pro the 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:31.000 Big Ten. You love Ohio State, but you moved out 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:32.840 of Columbus and trying to make up for it, you 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.440 hate him, Like how do you balance all that out? 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.960 And and do you even read the mentions after a 0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:40.240 game or after like do you even try to? I'm 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:44.280 just there's so much noise. I'm curious what you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:48.199 that's all sir um. First, I think in you and 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.480 I've spoken in the past, We've known each other for 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:53.320 a long time now, but you kind of know how 0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:56.399 I am. I mean, I take so much pride in 0:26:56.400 --> 0:27:00.480 my preparation and so much pride and in the game itself. 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:06.560 Like I've watched games go through five highlights of the 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.320 Tennessee Florida game, Like I watch, you know, from the 0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:12.479 opening kickoff to the last play of the game, and 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:15.960 I do that. I have done that every Saturday for 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:19.040 the last twenty five years. So I don't I don't 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:22.679 whether you like what I say, or you don't like 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:25.199 what I say. That that that I have no problem with. 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:28.440 But the people that think I am an agenda, like 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:33.000 what how can I possibly have an agenda? When you know, 0:27:33.560 --> 0:27:37.120 if you think about it, I watch as much as 0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:39.560 I can, and I talked to as many people as 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:41.760 I can, the coaches and the players who are involved, 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:45.320 and then I give you an opinion. In some weeks, 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:48.159 it might be for your team, and that's when you 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:50.560 get man, you're amazing, You're so good at what you 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:53.840 and then the next week it's against your team, and 0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:57.000 now it's you're such a homer, or you're you're a hater, 0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.720 you're a trader. It's like when aren't people going to 0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:02.680 figure year out? Like I don't have time to keep 0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:05.520 score of like who I'm supposed to be for who 0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.439 I'm against? I just say what I think, you know, 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:11.480 Like the last two years, Ohio State always seems to 0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:14.240 be in the crosshairs of the playoff. In the last 0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:17.360 two years, I have adam rely said after the conference 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:20.960 championship games, because it's a big zoo from the time 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:26.280 the SEC uh SEC championship game, the Big Ten championship game, 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:29.800 and then that game ends and then the debate in 0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:33.720 the frenzy literally begins that night on Sports Center for 0:28:33.880 --> 0:28:37.879 US until the next day when we announced who the 0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:41.920 four teams are. And if anybody's really watched me, they've 0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:46.800 seen in one in one year. In fourteen, Ohio State 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:49.320 was sitting at six and t FU and Baylor were 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:51.960 ahead of them, and they went out with a third 0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:56.360 string quarterback, Cardil Jones and Wisconsin fifty nine and nothing 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:59.160 or whatever it was. And I went on TV after 0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:01.320 that and I said, is based on the way they've 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:03.720 been playing all year, the fact that they proved with 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:06.560 a third string quarterback. If anything, they're not taking any 0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:10.080 steps back. I think they put an exclamation on their 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:12.120 end of their season, and I think Ohio States a 0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:13.960 better team that they should be in the top four. 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:16.000 Of course, I was in Ohio State at home or 0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:18.160 a bah. They went on to win the national championship, 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:21.440 beat Alabama, beat Oregon. Well, the last two years, I've 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:25.600 been very very adamant about Ohio State not deserving to be. 0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:28.000 In fact, two years ago I walked off the set 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:31.120 because I said, if they put Alabama and Georgia in, 0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:34.360 I'll be It's the right thing to do. But there's 0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:38.800 no way they're gonna be too worried about being politically correct. 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.600 There's no way this committee is going to do the 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:44.800 right thing. They're gonna worry about Jim Delaney and all 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:48.360 the other politics. They're gonna put the Ohio state in 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:52.680 even though Alabama should be in there, and sure enough, boom, 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:55.520 Alabama shows up. I walk off the set as in, 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:59.200 I was so proud of the committee. I was so like, 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.000 I can't believe we live in an era where the 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:07.280 committee doesn't worry about politics. Like the A people would 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:10.480 have definitely slated well they lost, they won move Ohio 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:14.480 State up. Like here were people using their collective minds 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:18.960 and reasoning to put the four best teams in and 0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:23.280 sure enough, Alabama deserve that opportunity, and they got put in. 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:25.360 I walk off the set. People thought I was walking 0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:28.200 off the set boycotting that Alabama. I'm like, do you 0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.719 not listen? Like, well, how do you miss that? Like 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:35.400 I was? I was dumbfounding excited. So anyway, this is 0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:39.280 just a couple examples of every week for me. So 0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:42.560 what I've learned a long time ago is just gather 0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:45.880 as much information as I can from very reliable people 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.400 who are involved in the games and playing and coaching, 0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:52.040 watch as much football as anybody in the country, and 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:56.680 then just give my opinion and and and not really 0:30:56.720 --> 0:30:59.120 worry about it. Lets let's let's let things just fall 0:30:59.120 --> 0:31:01.920 where they where they may, and and just go about 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:04.840 my business and probably just like you. I mean, when 0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:07.400 you're in our world, that's that's really all you can do. 0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:10.880 But I don't really get caught out. I could say 0:31:10.960 --> 0:31:13.480 one sentence and I'm a big tan Ohio State homer, 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:16.960 and the same sentence, I'm an Ohio State hater and 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:21.160 ann sec hole. So you can't win with those people. 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:25.720 So I try not to worry a lot about offending 0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:29.400 kind of that lunatic fringe or what what they might 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:31.400 be upset about, because if they're not upset with me, 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:34.480 they're upset with you, or they're upset with someone else, 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:36.640 you know what I mean, Or that always upset. I mean, 0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:39.360 that's the passion is what makes college football, I think, 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:41.440 the best sport that exists in our country right like 0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:44.640 in terms of sure enjoyment and everything else. But that 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:48.200 also the passion can flip and turn into what makes 0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.040 it the scariest and the wildest. Uh. And we'll get 0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:53.120 to like versions of that maybe in a little bit. 0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:55.400 But I want to circle back now. So you're you 0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:58.920 get that first amazing letter from Ohio State. Um, and 0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:01.719 you said your dad obviously was a coach. Do you 0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:04.160 remember being around what he hayes and like getting to 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:08.520 meet some of those guys back in the down Oh yeah, 0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:10.680 I remember sitting on what he has his lap as 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:14.520 a as a kid and looking up to him at 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:18.280 that age it's like probably, uh, you're either middle or 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:22.600 youngest son looking up there. You know. For me, it 0:32:22.720 --> 0:32:24.960 was like in the mid seventies and Archie Griffin was 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:27.080 on the team, and I put Archie Griffin's helmet on 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:29.640 in the locker room, went home one of the years 0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:33.160 he won the Heisman and sat on what he hayes 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:35.600 his lap after the game with his white shirt with 0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:38.080 his cut off sleeves and his glasses and his hat on, 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:41.680 and I'm literally looking up at zeus, you know, like 0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:45.040 me at that age, like I'm like like like are 0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:49.400 you kidding me? Like this isn't real, you know, And 0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:52.480 to have a chance to come around, you know, my 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:54.240 dad would take me from time to time. He didn't 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:56.040 abuse that, but he would take me from time to 0:32:56.120 --> 0:32:58.880 time and ended up actually going to Woody's funeral when 0:32:58.920 --> 0:33:02.920 I was in tenth grade. And you know, I was 0:33:02.960 --> 0:33:06.640 around bow quite a bit. Boschen Beckler, who my dad 0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:09.720 and he coached together and became really good friends and 0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:12.680 and stayed in touch, and then he recruited me pretty heavily, 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:17.120 and and UM just just stuff that UM for me was, 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:22.320 you know, looking back at it, UM just obviously helped 0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:25.960 develop the person that I became. Because if you would 0:33:26.000 --> 0:33:28.200 have asked me as a senior in high school when 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.200 sports were you know, I was really starting to kind 0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:33.520 of grow and who knew what I was. I was 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:35.880 trying to shoot for the stars. You would have said, 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.440 what's your perfect scenario in your life? What would you 0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:40.320 want to do? At that time? I would have said, 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:44.200 play football Ohio State and play short stuff for the 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:46.520 Cincinnati Reds. Like I grew up with a big red 0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:51.920 machine and Red's Baseball and listening to Marty Brennaman and 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.800 and so I was not I'm going to the NFL 0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:58.800 guy at all. I was I'm going to MLB was 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:02.120 my thing. But I want a desperately I wanted to 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:07.680 play college football um and and after that again in 0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:10.279 seventeen or eighteen. My my dream would have been to 0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:13.799 go on to play baseball. So Ohio State recruits you 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.480 and ultimately you end up going there. Did you was 0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:19.719 there any possibility of you going elsewhere? Or in your 0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:22.120 mind did you ever even conceive that you might go 0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:25.279 elsewhere even if you're talking to other schools. Was it 0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:28.520 always if Ohio State offers me a scholarship, I'm going 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:31.000 there in your mind? Or did you even did you consider? 0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:33.680 I mean, you talked about meeting Woody and like obviously 0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:37.799 the iconic nature of your connection to Ohio State. What 0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:41.719 kind of recruiting situation did you find yourself in? Well, 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:45.200 I was I was heavily recruited and being recruited by 0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:47.920 almost every school in the country, and I, in the 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:49.640 back of my mind knew that I was always going 0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:51.560 to go to Ohio State, but I wanted to be 0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:56.439 involved with the recruiting. Ironically, Earl Bruce my senior year, 0:34:56.960 --> 0:35:01.400 was fired in November of my senior year. He got fired, 0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:06.280 and uh, I had to kind of tread water until 0:35:06.320 --> 0:35:08.919 they named a coach because it took him about three 0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:12.480 or four weeks until they finally announced that John Cooper 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:15.840 was going to be their head coach, and I was, 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.160 you know USC and Penn State and did you take 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:23.479 did you take other official visits? Yeah, yeah, I looked 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:25.600 at Michigan and Penn State. I wanted to go out 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:28.799 to USC, but by the time I decided, I had 0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:32.160 already kind of led them on long enough. I knew 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:34.680 I wasn't going to go out there, um, and so 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:36.480 I had to just be honest with him and tell 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:38.680 them that I was had already made it might have 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.239 made up my mind. And then the second that they 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.840 named Johnny Coople, I didn't know John Coople from a 0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:46.319 hole in the wall. I didn't know who he was. 0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:49.720 But we had been talking. My dad had been talking 0:35:49.920 --> 0:35:52.040 to some of the folks at Ohio State that were 0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:54.480 still there after Roll Bruce had gotten fired, and he 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:57.880 basically told him, when you announced the coach, you know, 0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:01.040 I think Clerk wants to announce, literally as soon as 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:03.440 his press conference is over, that he's he's going to 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:07.600 go to Ohio State. And so once they announced it, um, 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:09.120 I went ahead and said I was gonna go to 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:12.920 High State. But yeah, I I enjoyed being recruited, but 0:36:13.040 --> 0:36:16.279 I didn't enjoy lying. After a while, I just kind 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:19.600 of got old, and you start to become friends, like 0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:23.440 friends with the guy that's recruiting you, Like Kevin Steele 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:29.000 was relentless um. In fact, when I was if you 0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:31.960 go back and look at Tennessee football, if you go 0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:34.880 back to the mid eighties, um, there were some great 0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:37.799 players that were coming out of Southwest Ohio and even 0:36:37.880 --> 0:36:40.880 Chuck Webb who was up in the Toledo area down 0:36:41.239 --> 0:36:45.400 and I would give Kevin Steele all the credit, um 0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:51.440 for his style of recruiting. Relentless friendly. I mean, you 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:54.680 felt like he was your best friend, you know. And 0:36:54.719 --> 0:36:57.440 so I didn't know a whole lot about Tennessee football 0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:00.960 back when I was growing up, And yet I really 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.640 wanted to go to Tennessee because I wanted to hang 0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:06.560 out with Kevin Steel, like he made such a favorable 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:09.279 impression on me. And to this day, he and our 0:37:09.360 --> 0:37:12.239 friend now and you know, I followed his career and 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:15.560 he's obviously doing a great job at Auburn, But um, 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:18.239 he did such a great job recruiting me that that 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:21.040 I I very easily could have gone. And if I've 0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.759 been funny, if I had the campus should have been 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:25.600 hard to say no after you get on campus and 0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:28.560 look at their history and tradition, But he was. He 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:31.480 was recruiting me. I just remember that, um, just because 0:37:31.520 --> 0:37:33.319 of all the other kids that he was able to 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:36.360 sway out of Ohio and go down to play for Tennessee. 0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:39.000 Can you imagine what it would be like? So you're 0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:41.960 a pretty high level recruit in the nineteen eighties, I 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:44.920 believe it was. Can you can you imagine what it 0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:47.120 would be like to be a high level recruit now? 0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:49.920 Because you I'd imagine then, like you had coaches who 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:52.799 come to your school and certainly they could call your home, 0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:54.680 but it's not like you have a cell phone like 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:58.240 I was. We were driving around, I played golf course 0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.600 with Kirby Smart and we were in the card together 0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:03.280 for six hours, and uh, he was just talking about 0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:05.280 the sheer amount because I mean the amount of time 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:07.480 and contact and it's all text right, Like the amount 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:11.000 of time that they spend having to interact with these kids, 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:14.320 Like I just can't imagine year after year you're texting 0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:17.640 with fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds. I can't imagine the coach. 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:20.680 But I also can't imagine being a fifteen, sixteen or 0:38:20.719 --> 0:38:24.240 seventeen year old with you know, multimillion dollar head coaches 0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:27.440 texting you all the time. Can you even imagine what 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:31.799 that would be like? Now? I can't because back then 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:34.399 it was just you would you would give him your 0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:37.960 home address, yep, when you've filled out your questionnaire, and 0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:41.520 you would get inundated with so much. Now it got 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:44.239 to the point where you didn't even open up open 0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:46.480 up the mail. Would it would just it would just 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:50.560 be piled in your corner of your bedroom and probably 0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:53.520 just hundreds and hundreds of pieces and you just not 0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:55.960 that you're bragging that no, yeah, I open them. It 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:57.880 just it was the same kind of rhetoric. It was 0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:01.040 the same kind of speel. Yeah, as a fifteen, sixteen, 0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:02.719 seventeen eight year old kid, you just kind of get 0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:07.200 tired of and I would think getting text you know, 0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:10.520 players they probably ghost coaches all the time just kind 0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:12.319 of look at it like, oh, yeah, what's up? You know, 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:14.800 then they just kind of move. Unless it's a coach 0:39:15.040 --> 0:39:17.480 or a school that you maybe have interest in, then 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.120 maybe it's a different deal. But yeah, it's one thing 0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:22.120 to get it from Kirby, it's another thing to get 0:39:22.120 --> 0:39:24.800 it from you know, the hundreds of other teams and 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:28.000 coaches that you're not necessarily interested in that they're just 0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:31.600 wearing wearing your phone out that would get that would 0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:34.120 get tiring for sure. And and not to mention, they 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:36.160 try to work other angles, whether it's a sister or 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:40.239 a mom or whoever it is. So um, yeah, that's 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:43.320 that's that's a different game and something obviously our generation 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.719 didn't have to worry about. So you arrive at Ohio State, 0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:50.120 you're a bally hoo'd recruit. John Cooper's the new head coach. 0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:53.160 How much of a culture shock. It's still in the 0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:56.279 state of Ohio. But and even though you went to 0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:59.480 a high school where people cared a great deal, Ohio 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:02.359 State ball big time college football. Even if you go 0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:05.080 to a big time high school is a huge step. 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:07.160 What did it feel like for you as a true 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:10.480 freshman at Ohio State. Well, first, my dad when he 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:13.600 dropped me off, he said, you're gonna go in and 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:17.279 everybody's gonna be, you know, highly recruited kid, And it's like, 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:21.080 I want you to remember this, Uh, kids in your 0:40:21.080 --> 0:40:24.120 class four or five years later, we're gonna look at 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:28.040 this class and if half of them playing, you'll have 0:40:28.120 --> 0:40:30.919 a very good class. And I was like, what they're 0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.400 all gonna play? You're not let me. These guys are 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.920 all everybody's all state. Oh this all that? You know? 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:39.080 You go to a school like Tennessee, Ohio State. You 0:40:39.120 --> 0:40:41.920 look at every recruiting class, you read every kid's resume, 0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:45.160 and you're just blown away, like you can't imagine winning 0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:46.960 a true freshman Like right now, we just you and 0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:50.600 I were together and we went through Alabama's recruiting class, 0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:54.440 George's or Tennessee's or Ohio State, anybody right now that 0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.239 the kids who are rising freshman, we would look at 0:40:57.239 --> 0:40:59.719 their resumes and if we put a star next to who, 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:01.839 we say it's gonna make it. I bet you added 0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:04.719 twenty five of them. We probably twenty of them, at 0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:07.360 least maybe twenty two of them. If we're trying to 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.000 predict that they're gonna be, they're gonna make it, not 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:14.160 even become a superstar, just be a major contributor, a starter. 0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:16.640 You would you would be able to find twenty out 0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:19.359 of twenty five easy and sure enough you go back 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:21.680 and look at recruiting classes. When my dad said that, 0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:24.880 I know he's crazy he's right. I mean, you know, 0:41:24.920 --> 0:41:27.759 whether a guy gets an injury, guy gets homesick, guy 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:30.160 gets the girl pregnant, back home, guy gets this, guy 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:33.200 gets back. You start to look at everybody's recruiting class, 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:37.799 and sure enough you get those that hit you know, 0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:40.880 you're you're having a pretty good class. So he left 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:44.400 me with that, and I remember walking in and thinking 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:47.280 I had a really you know, you're talking about highs 0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:50.200 and lows of your lives. I had a really hard 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:56.640 time just getting over that I belonged in there, like 0:41:57.200 --> 0:42:00.080 you know that the here's a locker room and a 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:03.080 place that I had always revered and always looked at 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:05.360 when I went in there as if this was a 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.799 different place, Like this is like going to almost a 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:11.840 different planet when I was a kid, And now to 0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.319 go in there and you're like, now, it's almost like 0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:16.600 you know, the green lantern, you know, It's like now, 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:18.480 all of a sudden, I get I get the outfit. 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:21.480 I'm one of the guys, and I'm I'm wearing this? 0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:24.520 Are you kidding me? I'm not supposed to have this on. 0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:28.400 I don't don't need this, I can't wear this. So 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:31.960 I you know, for years I had a really hard 0:42:31.960 --> 0:42:35.759 time adjusting, not just to the game and to the 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:39.680 speed of the game, but just to feeling comfortable and 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:44.239 feeling as if I was warranted and being in that 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:47.160 word it was. It was something I had had a 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:51.560 hard time overcoming initially. Do you think if you had 0:42:51.640 --> 0:42:53.520 been in a different era that would have been a 0:42:53.520 --> 0:42:56.239 transferse situation? You stuck it out, and I bet when 0:42:56.280 --> 0:43:00.000 we get you were really happy. But particularly with quarterbacks, 0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:02.200 it's like you get there that first year and it 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:06.920 doesn't click, like they're already looking to go elsewhere. Uh 0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:09.160 would that have been you? You think if you had 0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:13.520 grown up in this different era of of college football? Well, 0:43:13.520 --> 0:43:16.880 I'm glad you brought that up. And I got to 0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:19.799 the point as a red shirt sophomore. They went to 0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:23.320 Notre Dame. They brought a kid named Ken Graham and 0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:27.240 who was a backup on a Notre Dame national championship team. 0:43:27.400 --> 0:43:30.480 Tony Rice was the starter, and he had transferred in. 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.560 He had a big arm, big huge guy, a big arm, 0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:35.719 and I have been working like crazy to kind of 0:43:35.760 --> 0:43:37.279 be in a position that I was in, and here 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.799 comes a guy who's transfers in and eventually they were 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.800 looking at him to become a starter. And so I 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.040 was starting to kind of realize, you know that this 0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:49.920 is tough, and and I'm chasing this. I've been chasing 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:52.920 this for three years, and going into my fourth years 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:55.960 has sort of been going into my red shirt. I 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:57.839 guess my red shirt getting the beginning of my red 0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:00.640 shirt junior year, and I was just kind of getting discouraged. 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:03.439 And I remember talking to my dad because I put 0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:06.000 baseball in the back burner and I was as good 0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:08.880 as the baseball, if not better, and I always wished 0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:11.399 I had played that. And I told my dad, you know, Dad, 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:14.239 I think I just can't take this anymore. I'm not 0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:17.880 sing eyed I with the coaches, with the offense of 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:22.440 staff and philosophy, and and I really wish I had 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.319 played baseball. So basically looking for an easy way out. 0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:26.759 And I was like, I said, I'm just gonna go 0:44:26.840 --> 0:44:30.000 play baseball. And my dad was like, no, no, You're 0:44:30.040 --> 0:44:32.600 you're not doing that. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:35.799 go through spring ball. You're gonna compete, and you're gonna 0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:39.880 see where things are and we'll kind of see, you know, 0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:42.120 where you are after that, and when you want to 0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:45.120 talk to the coaches about something you know that you 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:46.960 might want to do. After that, then then you can 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:49.640 do that. But you're you're not You're not giving up. 0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:53.480 And so I was from a generation when when your 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:57.040 dad told you that, you listened, and even though I 0:44:57.080 --> 0:45:01.800 didn't agree with it, I equally strapped up my helmet 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:05.719 and went out and did what I could. And so 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:09.520 what I found was I outperformed this individual as far 0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:11.720 as the way they keep stats and seven on seven 0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:14.480 when they would keep stats and say okay, Kirky or 0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:18.120 whatever percentage and can't you or whatever percentage? And the 0:45:18.200 --> 0:45:21.200 same in team. And so going into my junior year, 0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:25.440 it was kind of a split thing, but they aired 0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:27.920 on the side, if I think more his potential because 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:30.960 it is his big arm and it fit the offense 0:45:30.960 --> 0:45:33.239 that they were running. And so we would kind of 0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:35.640 split some some reps and then he would take the 0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:38.240 upper hand and then we'd split some reps and eventually 0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:41.000 he about the middle of the year on he would 0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:43.880 take he would start to take the most of the reps. 0:45:44.000 --> 0:45:48.000 And so while I was discouraged and frustrated, I was 0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:52.000 going into my my last year and after all I've 0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:53.880 been through and I, you know, we don't have enough 0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:56.080 time to kind of talk about everything I've been through. 0:45:56.800 --> 0:45:59.200 I finally sole kind of the light at the end 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:01.840 of the tunnel, kink I am graduated and it was 0:46:01.880 --> 0:46:07.839 basically my job. And that spring going into my senior year, 0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:10.840 the head coach, John Cooper did something differently and you 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:16.520 voted for captains in the spring going into uh into 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:19.840 the summer. They've never done that before, and me and 0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:22.879 a guy named Steve Tovar were voted captains. There were 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:25.640 just two captains, and I was voted unanimously, and the 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:28.880 fact that I was voted by my teammates, it was 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:33.920 like a huge boost for me, and it allowed propelled 0:46:33.960 --> 0:46:36.680 me into the summer and into my senior year with 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:39.600 a lot of confidence despite what I've been through. And 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:44.640 looking back at it, I guess I get very passionate 0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:49.000 and emotional when I see kids who, to their credit 0:46:49.120 --> 0:46:53.640 or only years old, when they hit some adversity and 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:57.759 they decided to get into the transfer portal. And I 0:46:57.800 --> 0:47:01.000 look at it now at hindsight, and I think that 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:04.879 not only did that, that attitude of sticking it out 0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:09.080 helped me to eventually graduate from the home state to 0:47:09.239 --> 0:47:11.279 be part of the Ohio State football family and to 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:14.799 be appreciated. It was really a turning point and kind 0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:17.160 of a fork in the road in my life as 0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:20.799 an individual. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking to 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:24.200 you right now. I wouldn't be doing what eventually I 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:27.720 got into. If I would have said, Man, this is terrible, 0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:29.840 I'm out of here. I'm gonna go play baseball, or 0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:32.239 I'm out of here. I'm gonna like today's kid, I'm 0:47:32.280 --> 0:47:34.279 gonna go transfer, doing another school. I'm gonna have a 0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:37.760 transfer portal. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today. 0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.279 And so when I hear kids face, you know, and 0:47:41.320 --> 0:47:44.600 every individual cases, you know, it's different. I'm not saying 0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:48.160 all kids who transfer are making a mistake, but I 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:52.240 think the kids that see competition and they get the 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:54.360 short end of the stick maybe and they think this 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:59.879 isn't fair. Um, I feel like taking the easy way 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:05.000 out isn't necessarily always the right answer, And especially if 0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:10.320 you're a traditional powerhouse program with big, strong alumni. There's 0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:14.000 something about Jalen Hurts that if you talk to Alabama alumni, 0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:17.120 the fact that he stuck it out and the fact 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:20.439 that he got an opportunity in the SEC Championship game 0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:24.600 to perform and do well, and he graduates from Alabama 0:48:24.640 --> 0:48:26.799 and he moves on. Now he's at Oklahoma. But if 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:28.919 you if Jalen Hurts goes on to try to play 0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:30.800 in the NFL, let's say it works out for a 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:32.799 year or two. Let's say it doesn't work out at all, 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:35.360 and now he's looking to try to figure out what 0:48:35.360 --> 0:48:38.640 he wants to do with his life. Jalen Hurts is 0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:42.399 going to have an army of people they're gonna want 0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:46.319 to try to help him succeed in life. And a 0:48:46.360 --> 0:48:49.920 lot of those people are gonna be Alabama alumni because 0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:53.120 they're going to see what he went through and how 0:48:53.160 --> 0:48:55.960 he kept fighting and how he put the team ahead 0:48:55.960 --> 0:49:00.400 of himself. And there's something about that quality that people 0:49:00.400 --> 0:49:03.680 are drawn to that. And so I think when I 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:07.160 see kids just immediately enter enter the transfer portal, I 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:10.480 think they're looking at a five year window of their 0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:13.319 life and they're not looking at a forty five year 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:17.840 window of their life, and how that decision can impact 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:22.239 them in so many ways beyond just playing football. And 0:49:23.200 --> 0:49:26.960 hopefully there's coaches or family members in their lives to 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:31.080 help them see that, but I'm afraid of many cases, um, 0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:33.800 that's not the case, and they just try to find 0:49:34.440 --> 0:49:36.520 that theory of the grass as greener on the other 0:49:36.800 --> 0:49:38.879 the other side of the fence, and I think that's 0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:41.600 where they're They're trying to find that quick fix, and 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:44.360 to me that isn't always the right answer based on 0:49:44.760 --> 0:49:48.080 my experience anyway. Be sure to catch live editions about 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:50.799 Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:54.640 am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking to kirkharb Street. 0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.520 I'm Clay Travis. This is the Winds and Losses Pot podcast. 0:49:57.640 --> 0:50:01.560 How did your senior year at Ohio State go? It 0:50:01.719 --> 0:50:05.360 went well? I I think I had an injury in 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:08.360 the second week against Bowling Green. Listening to this, we 0:50:08.480 --> 0:50:10.480 play Bowling Green, who was actually wanted. You know, there's 0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:12.480 always one team in the MAC you just don't want 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:15.799 to play well Bowling Bowling Green was that team. They 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:19.200 were outstanding that year and we ended up losing my 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:21.120 number one receiver by a guy by the name of 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:25.080 Joey Galloway on a kickoff return towards a c l 0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:28.120 out for the year, another guy by the name of 0:50:28.200 --> 0:50:32.080 Robert Smith cracked three ribs in that game, and we 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:35.520 lost him for for a few weeks. Um. So, a 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:38.399 guy named Eddie George started to get more and more 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:44.040 carries my backfield that year with Eddie, Eddie George, Robert Smith, 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.000 I had Choe Galloway at wide receiver, a kid named 0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:50.080 Brian stade Line who played. By the way. What's remarkable 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:53.600 is four of those guys that you just mentioned, including you, 0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:56.479 all have ended up making livings in some way talking 0:50:56.480 --> 0:51:00.799 about college football in the NFL. Right, that's right, that's right. 0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:02.840 Do you think about the statistics on that. That's a 0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:05.799 pretty remarkable number of people to all be on the 0:51:05.800 --> 0:51:09.240 same offensive side of the ball. Yeah, that's a great point. 0:51:09.480 --> 0:51:12.480 And all great guys. I mean, Joey and I were 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:15.560 best friends in college and continue to be really good friends. 0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:18.640 Eddie a really good friend and so happy for what 0:51:18.760 --> 0:51:25.120 he's accomplished obviously here in Nashville, and such a solid dude. Um. So, yeah, 0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:29.600 I mean we ended up. We ended up. The best 0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:33.239 way to describe this is we week three, we play 0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:35.600 at Syracuse on the road. Was this is when they 0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:37.960 had Marvin Graves and they were like fifth or six 0:51:38.000 --> 0:51:40.120 in the country and we were supposed to get killed 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:42.480 and we ended up beating him and Eddie had like 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:45.080 three touchdowns in that game. And the very next week 0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:49.680 we're playing a terrible Wisconsin team and we come back 0:51:49.719 --> 0:51:52.840 down again. That's why I'm so big on emotions in 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:55.480 college football, for you up, are you down? Where are you? 0:51:55.920 --> 0:52:01.000 And we were down against Wisconsin thirty local kick lost 0:52:01.040 --> 0:52:03.520 to a team we should have won. That kind of 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:06.799 sentence into a little bit of a kind of a 0:52:08.320 --> 0:52:12.200 turned down, kind of a two weeks spin out where 0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:14.400 we just didn't play our best football but ended up 0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:17.160 doing well. We came down to the Michigan game, to 0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:19.719 the Rose Bowl and we ended up tying them, and 0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:23.480 that was when ties, Yeah, just brutal, and they went 0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:25.800 they had been a roll records, so they went ahead 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.040 over us UM and that was back then there was 0:52:29.160 --> 0:52:31.800 no bcs like you really went to the Rose Bowl 0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:34.640 or it was like you know one year we went 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.160 Rose Bowl or Liberty Bowl. It was like Rose Bowl 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:41.040 or Citrus Bowl. So that's why John Cooper who got 0:52:41.160 --> 0:52:44.880 so much heat, is he could not win that game. 0:52:45.040 --> 0:52:48.439 And in many cases, um, you know, the Rose Bowl 0:52:48.440 --> 0:52:49.800 was on the line. And if you want a couple 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:51.880 of them. I think people would have been pretty happy 0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:55.239 with his era, But losing to Michigan, it's like it's 0:52:55.239 --> 0:52:57.640 like Tennessee losing Alabama every year. I mean, it's just 0:52:58.000 --> 0:52:59.799 eventually it's going to catch up to and that's that's 0:52:59.840 --> 0:53:03.280 what out doing. So you finish your career at Ohio 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:06.359 State and you do you have any hope at all? 0:53:06.400 --> 0:53:08.160 You talked about baseball and how you thought you were 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.920 pretty good. Do you think at that point, hey, I 0:53:10.960 --> 0:53:14.919 have some kind of career beyond Ohio State athletically. What 0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:18.520 decisions are you making as your college football career comes 0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:21.359 to a close. And he's a great questions that things 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:23.759 I haven't thought about in years. UM. I was a 0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:27.879 business major at Ohio State and marketing major, and one 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.560 of the things that Ohio State did back then is 0:53:30.640 --> 0:53:34.520 they had a guy that was assigned to help players 0:53:34.560 --> 0:53:38.080 that if they wanted to kind of get into um, 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:40.719 you know, their field, he would try to connect you 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:47.360 with people who were um either either either different alumnie 0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:49.600 will try to help you kind of get started with 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:53.279 your career, or just different companies that would reach out 0:53:53.320 --> 0:53:56.320 to the athletic department say hey, if you have somebody 0:53:56.400 --> 0:53:59.399 that's uh, you know, in the pharmaceutical sales. We're looking 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:01.359 to maybe high are a couple of guys that kind 0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:04.560 of thing. So I was interviewing. Graduated in the spring, 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:10.040 but I was interviewing throughout early spring, trying to either 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:12.880 get into medical sales and pharmaceutical sales. So I was 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:14.760 going and I was putting on a suit and tie 0:54:14.800 --> 0:54:18.440 as a marketing major. I was going to interviews based 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:21.480 on this guy's leadership and and just the way he 0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:25.000 was mentoring me. And I was getting a lot of opportunities. 0:54:25.040 --> 0:54:27.640 There was a company called Worthington Industries that's that's up 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:32.000 in Columbus, and um I was getting second and third interviews. 0:54:32.000 --> 0:54:34.960 So I was balancing that and also thinking, hey, maybe 0:54:34.960 --> 0:54:38.080 I'll maybe I'll try to do the NFL thing. And 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:41.520 what I found was with the NFL, it was hey, 0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:43.360 we want to bring you in as a free agent 0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:46.920 and I and I for me, I just again, different era, 0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:50.600 different time. A lot of guys back in my ear 0:54:50.640 --> 0:54:52.680 if they didn't get drafted, they would need to go 0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:55.520 free agency. They would go World League, or they would 0:54:55.520 --> 0:54:58.560 go Arena League. And I did not want to be 0:54:58.640 --> 0:55:02.319 a guy that could not cut the cord and just 0:55:02.480 --> 0:55:05.680 bounce around. You know, what are you doing? Well, I'm 0:55:05.680 --> 0:55:08.839 playing an arena football, you know, and arena to Like 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:11.759 some of these guys, they just cannot let go of 0:55:11.880 --> 0:55:14.760 their athletic career. I did not want. I had such 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:17.160 a phobia against that that I felt like, if I 0:55:17.200 --> 0:55:19.319 was going to be drafted, I feel chase it the 0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:21.799 best I could. And if I didn't get drafted, I'm done. 0:55:21.880 --> 0:55:23.840 I'm moving on. I'm going to find a job and 0:55:24.360 --> 0:55:26.520 kind of get started with my life. And so when 0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:29.160 I did not get drafted my senior year, as I said, 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:32.080 I had some free agent opportunities could have done the arena. 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:34.200 Did you did you have a party for the draft 0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:38.080 or anything, or were you anticipating that like that would 0:55:38.080 --> 0:55:41.480 have been a surprise if you yeah, yeah, yeah, No, 0:55:41.560 --> 0:55:44.120 no party, even if I would have been a first 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:46.080 round or I don't know, if I wouldn't have a 0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:49.040 big party. I I think that's like, I don't know, 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:51.160 sometimes I feel so bad for those guys they throw 0:55:51.200 --> 0:55:53.560 the big party and then they don't get drafted on 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:55.320 the first night, you know, and then it can go 0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:57.839 over into the next night. I don't think I would 0:55:57.840 --> 0:56:00.759 recommend having the big party. I don't know, it's just me, 0:56:01.160 --> 0:56:02.920 but I know we didn't have any party. It was 0:56:02.960 --> 0:56:05.480 just again a different time. Guys, a lot of guys 0:56:05.520 --> 0:56:09.160 didn't really have parties. Joey Galloway was playing basketball when 0:56:09.160 --> 0:56:12.239 he got drafted seventh or eightes overall. Um, it was 0:56:12.280 --> 0:56:16.440 just a just kind of a different time. But no, no, no, 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:19.640 no draft party for me, nothing like that. Didn't get drafted. 0:56:19.680 --> 0:56:22.319 Like I said, a few teams call after and see 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:24.400 if I had the interest in coming to the free agent. 0:56:24.480 --> 0:56:28.279 No interest at all. I had just my mind made up. 0:56:28.320 --> 0:56:31.399 I was moving on, and I had been through a 0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:33.719 lot in those five years and I was ready to 0:56:33.760 --> 0:56:35.799 just kind of put that behind me move on. And 0:56:35.800 --> 0:56:37.279 like I said, I thought I was going to get 0:56:37.320 --> 0:56:40.040 into the business world. And it took a while I 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:43.840 was doing that. I reached out to two local of 0:56:44.600 --> 0:56:49.480 radio stations that that did talk shows, and I grew 0:56:49.560 --> 0:56:52.600 up a big sports talk radio fan. Like if you 0:56:52.640 --> 0:56:56.000 got into my car as a teenager, um, you know 0:56:56.200 --> 0:56:59.160 a lot of times people were listening to music and 0:56:59.200 --> 0:57:01.000 going to party and if you got into my car, 0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:03.160 I was heading to the parties. It's just I was 0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:05.960 listening to Reds Baseball with Marty and Joe, or I 0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:10.120 was listening to seven WW listening to Andy Ferman and 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:13.239 Chris Collinsworth talking sports like that's that's what I did. 0:57:13.239 --> 0:57:16.040 There was no satellite radio, there's nothing like that. I 0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:18.680 listened to the local radio that happened to be WW 0:57:18.720 --> 0:57:22.000 and Cincinnati, which was a big station, and that's what 0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:24.720 I did. That was like my hobby. I really enjoyed 0:57:24.760 --> 0:57:27.280 listening to talk radio and thought that that would be 0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:30.200 a really cool job if I got older and had 0:57:30.480 --> 0:57:33.280 that opportunity. So with that in mind, as I'm doing 0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:38.160 these interviews for these these pharmaceutical sales and medical sales, um, 0:57:38.200 --> 0:57:40.360 I just threw a couple of floaters out to these 0:57:40.360 --> 0:57:43.360 local AM stations to see if there might be any 0:57:43.520 --> 0:57:46.120 opportunities for them to have. You know, last year study 0:57:46.440 --> 0:57:51.600 that talked about the upcoming football team, and nothing really 0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:56.240 happened for a few months, and then late spring early summer, 0:57:56.280 --> 0:57:59.200 one of them responded and said, it's ironic you're reaching 0:57:59.200 --> 0:58:03.120 out or changing our format basically from elevator music to 0:58:03.360 --> 0:58:05.920 an all sports format. You know that that was just 0:58:06.000 --> 0:58:09.240 at the beginning of the time when all sports radio 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:11.880 is starting to kind of become a thing, and they 0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:15.680 were going to start an afternoon drive talk show with 0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:17.760 the guy that they called the Voice of the buck Eyes, 0:58:17.800 --> 0:58:19.880 the guy who did the play by play, and he 0:58:19.920 --> 0:58:22.160 needed a partner, and they were gonna pay me if 0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:23.720 I would do it. They were gonna pay me twelve 0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:28.800 thousand dollars with no benefits and you know, not nothing, 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:30.800 just twelve thousand dollars. This would have been what year, 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:37.200 like roughly, um, this would have been nineteen spring of 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:42.080 nineties nineties. So for people they're listening, it wasn't. Twelve 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:43.960 thousand dollars was not what I was getting at it is. 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:46.800 Twelve thou dollars was not a lot of money in either. 0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:51.919 No no, no, no, no, no no. But here's the thing. 0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:56.000 So I got to the last interview was one of 0:58:56.000 --> 0:58:59.040 these pharmaceutical sales John's. I thought I was gonna take it. 0:58:59.080 --> 0:59:01.440 Took a year, a sample of the whole nine yards 0:59:01.480 --> 0:59:04.000 past it. I mean, they're ready to hire me, and 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:08.600 they say, is this this radio saying if you're gonna 0:59:08.640 --> 0:59:11.280 take it, you can't you can't become a sales rep 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:15.320 for us. And you're traveling around, you know, different cities, 0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:16.920 and you're gonna be on the road a lot. We 0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:20.200 can't we can't guarantee you'll be home to be a 0:59:20.280 --> 0:59:22.640 show in afternoon drive radio show. There's no way you 0:59:22.640 --> 0:59:24.400 can do both. So you you got to kind of 0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:27.320 make up your mind. With a pharmaceutical sales job. This 0:59:27.440 --> 0:59:34.640 is like oay, you know, it's like much more stability. 0:59:34.800 --> 0:59:37.320 And so everybody that I talked to at that time 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:40.280 to get advice, they look to me like, are you 0:59:40.320 --> 0:59:46.560 out of your mind? Like that or that? Basically everybody 0:59:46.560 --> 0:59:49.200 telling me to take the pharmaceutical job, like, you know, 0:59:49.280 --> 0:59:52.040 you what an opportunity, how lucky for you to play 0:59:52.040 --> 0:59:54.840 at Ohio State open up these kind of doors for you. 0:59:54.840 --> 0:59:57.600 You're nuts not to take advantage of that. And in 0:59:57.600 --> 0:59:59.400 the back of my mind, I just kept looking at 0:59:59.440 --> 1:00:04.280 that radio show, having no idea what it potentially could 1:00:04.360 --> 1:00:06.440 lead to. I didn't even think about that. I was 1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:08.560 just thinking, how cool would it be to talk in 1:00:08.600 --> 1:00:11.360 the radio for a job, because I've been listening to 1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:14.840 these guys and we went against a lot of people 1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:18.800 and what they were recommending. And after all those interviewers, 1:00:18.920 --> 1:00:22.360 I turned down all those those business opportunities and I 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:26.200 took this this local radio, making twelve thousan dollars. Now, 1:00:26.200 --> 1:00:29.320 I was coming off living off of a scholarship check, 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:32.920 so twelve thousand dollars was actually a raise from what 1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:35.360 I was living off of it. You know, there was 1:00:35.400 --> 1:00:39.000 no cost of living, no pel grant. Like, I didn't 1:00:39.040 --> 1:00:42.280 have a lot of money as a student. So now 1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:44.280 you know, I made and I had roommates, so we 1:00:44.360 --> 1:00:49.520 shared rent, we shared own alternationing, electric power and all 1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:52.560 that stuff. So I I was like, you know, I 1:00:52.640 --> 1:00:54.440 was making a little bit of money, but I was 1:00:54.680 --> 1:00:59.160 loving what I was doing. And that started. He actually 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:03.760 started that the summer of nineties three was my first 1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:09.400 actual welcome to the show was so think about how 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:11.880 how many years ago was that? Now that was a 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:14.440 long time ago. I ended up doing radio for fifteen years. 1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:17.520 So so yeah, twelve thousand dollars. What time of day 1:01:17.520 --> 1:01:21.200 were you on? I was on from five thirty to seven. 1:01:22.200 --> 1:01:24.560 It was the initial job that you had. And the 1:01:24.600 --> 1:01:26.480 first time you sit down in front of a radio 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:29.200 mike and start talking at five thirty, that's the first 1:01:29.240 --> 1:01:30.760 time you would have done an hour and a half 1:01:30.760 --> 1:01:33.160 of radio or what kind of experience did you have 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:38.120 in radio? Zero zero experience. I was working with, like 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:41.760 I said, with the play by play man, who, by 1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:44.000 the way, now is the play by play man or 1:01:44.000 --> 1:01:48.040 the Los Angeles Angels. He does the Games Angels and 1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:53.440 has for all that fifteen years. Um. But yeah, I 1:01:53.520 --> 1:01:55.040 just sat there and he and I just kind of 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:56.600 like you and are doing right now. I just kinda 1:01:57.080 --> 1:01:59.680 hung out and talked, and eventually people started to realize 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:03.040 it was and elevator music on that station. People were 1:02:03.080 --> 1:02:05.680 talking sports, and we didn't do a lot of they 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:08.360 were were not a whole lot of marketing going on 1:02:08.400 --> 1:02:10.400 back then, so it was just word of mouth. Eventually 1:02:10.480 --> 1:02:13.280 people figured it out and we start to take calls, 1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:15.680 and you know, it was an hour and a half 1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:17.680 and it was a blink of an eye. But he 1:02:17.680 --> 1:02:20.000 would take it. He would take it out a break, 1:02:20.040 --> 1:02:21.880 he would go in to break, he would throw out 1:02:21.920 --> 1:02:24.480 the traffic, he would you know, all those kind of things. 1:02:24.800 --> 1:02:26.520 All I had to do was hit my button on 1:02:26.960 --> 1:02:29.520 and you know, kind of be his sidekick. That that 1:02:29.600 --> 1:02:32.280 was my gig, Like I didn't have to worry about anything. 1:02:32.920 --> 1:02:35.840 And then the show started to become successful, and then 1:02:35.840 --> 1:02:38.360 it went from five thirty seven. They went from four 1:02:38.400 --> 1:02:42.080 to seven you know, after about I don't know, eight months, 1:02:42.160 --> 1:02:44.400 not eight or nine months. So now we're on for 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:47.760 three hours, and then they bumped me up by a 1:02:47.760 --> 1:02:50.520 little bit of you know, a little bit more money. Um. 1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:53.680 But again, man, I was just doing something I loved. 1:02:53.960 --> 1:02:56.520 And that's when I learned a very valuable lesson, and 1:02:56.600 --> 1:02:59.959 I tried to speak my my son's about this is fine. 1:03:00.240 --> 1:03:02.960 Something you're passionate about and try to go out and 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:06.840 make a living doing it. And you know, I don't care. 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:11.080 What it is saying is if you can find a 1:03:11.200 --> 1:03:16.040 job that involves your passion, then you get to go. 1:03:16.120 --> 1:03:18.800 You get to be probably the only maybe five percent 1:03:18.840 --> 1:03:21.520 of Americans to go to bed on Sunday night and 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:24.920 actually look forward to the next week. They look forward 1:03:24.960 --> 1:03:27.080 to going to work on Monday. There are a whole 1:03:27.160 --> 1:03:30.120 lot of people to do that. And if you find 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:33.240 something you love, you're not worried about how much money 1:03:33.280 --> 1:03:35.880 am I making, but you're worried about just doing something 1:03:35.880 --> 1:03:38.840 you love. Eventually you're gonna get better, and you're gonna 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:42.000 get better, You're gonna hopefully get more opportunities, and eventually 1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:45.440 that money will come. But if you're chasing money, I 1:03:45.480 --> 1:03:47.720 guess it's doable, but you're not going to be very 1:03:47.720 --> 1:03:51.280 happy doing it. And I've learned that just by accident 1:03:51.400 --> 1:03:54.200 really more than anything, just by another fork in the 1:03:54.280 --> 1:03:56.880 road there whether I would have gone pharmaceutical sales or 1:03:57.040 --> 1:03:59.640 talk radio, and I decided to do something I thought 1:03:59.720 --> 1:04:01.919 sound of fun and something I wanted to do, which 1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:05.720 which was talk radio. Fox Sports Radio has the best 1:04:05.720 --> 1:04:08.560 sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our 1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:12.080 shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:15.240 I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. 1:04:16.280 --> 1:04:18.800 So when we're talking to Kirk herb Street, I'm Clay Travis. 1:04:18.840 --> 1:04:21.240 This is the Winds and Losses podcast. At what point 1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:26.120 does radio lead to an opportunity in television? Well? This, 1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:28.120 this is this is the craziest story of all. So 1:04:28.360 --> 1:04:32.040 Jay Crawford, who used to be at ESPN and he's 1:04:31.880 --> 1:04:34.280 a kind of a local keyp guy now in Cleveland. 1:04:35.000 --> 1:04:37.320 He and I started a show, one of those George 1:04:37.360 --> 1:04:41.040 Michael Sports Machine Sunday night shows. Now everybody seems to 1:04:41.080 --> 1:04:43.280 have them on, even here in Nashville, and there's three 1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:46.320 of them on on a Sunday night local news. There's 1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:50.960 like a thirty minute all sports show. So he and 1:04:51.080 --> 1:04:56.120 their company decides those radio station and this TV station 1:04:56.160 --> 1:04:59.200 were owned by the same family. They decide to start 1:04:59.240 --> 1:05:02.720 a thirty minu it Sunday night sports show, and they 1:05:02.760 --> 1:05:06.120 want me to co host with him. So now you've 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:09.600 never done any television at any point in my life 1:05:09.760 --> 1:05:15.760 other than being interviewed, right, never anything, And now I'm 1:05:15.800 --> 1:05:21.720 writing scripts and and watching him teach me how to 1:05:21.720 --> 1:05:24.760 write scripts for like Lead INDs. You know where you're 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:31.200 on Cameron reading telepront reading teleprompter. You know, people at 1:05:31.200 --> 1:05:35.720 home don't realize reading teleprompter when you've never read teleprompter 1:05:36.040 --> 1:05:38.920 and not sounding like you're reading. Oh, it's an amazingly 1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:43.720 difficult skill to have. It is, especially when you're twenty 1:05:43.800 --> 1:05:46.880 three and you have zero TV experience. And I'll tell 1:05:46.920 --> 1:05:48.880 you to this day, one of the greatest things I 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:51.320 ever did was taking that show. So, you know, being 1:05:51.320 --> 1:05:54.800 in Columbus, we would do Reds or Indians or Browns 1:05:54.920 --> 1:05:57.840 or Bengals. I mean, Ohio State. There's just a lot 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:01.200 going on in that market to be able to talk about, 1:06:01.360 --> 1:06:03.880 you know, a ton of golf, and so I'm doing 1:06:04.040 --> 1:06:06.040 Lead in you know, when it's a single shot on 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:11.000 you and you're reading maybe three sentences into the highlight 1:06:11.160 --> 1:06:13.640 or whatever it was. So I did that. I would 1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:16.760 do my radio show during the week. I was part 1:06:16.760 --> 1:06:21.200 of the Ohio State Radio broadcast. I was the sideline 1:06:21.240 --> 1:06:25.440 reporter from from down on the field. And then I 1:06:25.440 --> 1:06:28.040 would Sunday night, I would do the the Sunday Night 1:06:28.040 --> 1:06:31.680 show for thirty minutes and I would be reading teleprompter 1:06:31.840 --> 1:06:34.920 and doing my best with highlights and talking about a 1:06:34.920 --> 1:06:37.960 fish out of water for you know, probably for six 1:06:38.040 --> 1:06:41.440 months just trying to figure out what most people probably 1:06:41.480 --> 1:06:43.880 do in college. I was doing live on the air 1:06:44.600 --> 1:06:48.720 and create experience for me and allowed me to really grow. 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:54.200 And every time I would be on the even thought 1:06:54.200 --> 1:06:57.280 about working at ESPN. I'd be on the sideline and 1:06:57.320 --> 1:06:59.200 there was a guy by the name of Jack or Root. 1:06:59.600 --> 1:07:02.880 Were you to be on the side, remember him. He 1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:05.959 was with a lot of times he was with Keith 1:07:06.240 --> 1:07:09.240 uh and sometimes with Brent Musburger. But he would see 1:07:09.240 --> 1:07:12.520 me with his big, huge radio pack on and you know, 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:16.280 saying weight about twenty five pounds, and he'd look at 1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:20.000 me with his his dark rounded sunglasses and he'd be like, 1:07:20.040 --> 1:07:22.000 what he's like, I see you all the time? He's like, 1:07:22.040 --> 1:07:26.040 why aren't you doing TV? I was like, I'm doing 1:07:26.280 --> 1:07:29.000 this is great, man. I'm by now I'm up. I'm 1:07:29.040 --> 1:07:31.000 up to like twenty eight or thirties thousand in my 1:07:31.040 --> 1:07:34.320 mind because I'm doing that TV stuff and I'm loving life. 1:07:34.360 --> 1:07:37.880 I'm you know, I'm hanging out with my buddies and 1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:40.840 not really traveling other than one Ohio State footballs on 1:07:40.840 --> 1:07:42.800 the road. I like, I had a great gig, you know. 1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:45.520 And and he's like, you gotta put a tape together, 1:07:45.560 --> 1:07:47.520 you know, And you got you gotta, you need to 1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:50.000 get on TV. Every time I'd see him, you would 1:07:50.000 --> 1:07:54.800 say that. So so the three season and ninety four season, 1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:58.840 I'm doing this well the ninety By the time the nineties, that's, 1:07:58.840 --> 1:08:01.360 by the way, Eddie George, when he was like at 1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:04.320 the highest peak of his he went on to in 1:08:04.360 --> 1:08:08.200 the highs of he's just starting to really cop up. 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:11.280 And so I come up with, I have no tape. 1:08:11.280 --> 1:08:13.080 What am I gonna send ESPN? I don't have any 1:08:13.080 --> 1:08:17.439 TV other than Sunday Night Show. So I come up 1:08:17.439 --> 1:08:18.920 with an idea. And no, I didn't have an agent, 1:08:18.960 --> 1:08:20.960 Nobody told me to do this. I come up with 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:24.200 an idea that. I go to Ohio Stadium in February 1:08:24.280 --> 1:08:28.799 stadium twenty degrees out, it's empty. I get a local 1:08:28.840 --> 1:08:31.880 TV guy, camera guy to come with me, and I 1:08:31.920 --> 1:08:35.519 do a fake sideline report. I think. I was like thanks, Keith, 1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:38.000 and I did like a you know, like a I 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:40.639 don't know, I make something up, you know, for thirty 1:08:40.800 --> 1:08:43.680 or forty five seconds. I do two of those. I 1:08:43.720 --> 1:08:47.360 asked Eddie George, who's a huge name at the time 1:08:47.400 --> 1:08:51.200 in college football, and Joey Galloway, who was just about 1:08:51.240 --> 1:08:54.160 to be drafted, and their buddies of mine. I asked them, Hey, 1:08:54.160 --> 1:08:58.200 could you guys come over the newsroom and take something 1:08:58.240 --> 1:08:59.600 with me. I'm not gonna put it on air. I 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:02.679 just want to put it on my tape. And they're like, sure, 1:09:02.720 --> 1:09:05.439 we have no problem. So I call I have them 1:09:05.479 --> 1:09:08.439 come over. We spent about ten minutes. I I fake 1:09:08.560 --> 1:09:12.560 like I called the show buck t Corner, your host perfect. 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:16.160 I interviewed these guys, ask him about whatever for about 1:09:16.240 --> 1:09:20.120 ten minutes. So I put that on. I put the 1:09:20.320 --> 1:09:23.280 fake sideline reports from the empty Ohio stadium on. I 1:09:23.320 --> 1:09:25.639 would love to see that tape today, and I sent 1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:29.040 that to ABC Sports and I've seen it to ESPN, 1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:36.519 and that's how angually ESPN responded back to me, and uh, 1:09:36.640 --> 1:09:39.880 that's how eventually I ended up getting hired there. So 1:09:39.960 --> 1:09:42.559 what did they hire you to do the first? Like, 1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:44.760 did they ever ask you about that? That would be 1:09:44.800 --> 1:09:48.599 an amazing video To find it has to be somewhere, right, Yeah, 1:09:48.640 --> 1:09:50.479 I guess I don't know where it would be. But 1:09:51.040 --> 1:09:53.760 I I didn't hear anything. Again, this is this is 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:57.840 pre internet, pretty email, pretty everything. I didn't hear. I 1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:01.200 I sent that, like, but you said that like a 1:10:01.280 --> 1:10:04.519 VHS tape and like a Manila envelope to somebody's addressed 1:10:04.560 --> 1:10:08.880 that you had Jack dud. I literally don't even know 1:10:08.920 --> 1:10:11.040 if anybody saw that. I didn't get a thank you note. 1:10:11.160 --> 1:10:14.280 I didn't get a hey, we'll be in touch. I 1:10:14.320 --> 1:10:18.599 didn't get anything. So I just assumes somebody looked at it, 1:10:18.680 --> 1:10:21.040 throw it in the trash, moved on with their day, 1:10:21.200 --> 1:10:23.960 like I had no idea. And like two or three 1:10:24.000 --> 1:10:28.479 months later, ESPN calls and says, we would love to 1:10:28.640 --> 1:10:33.920 fly you in for an interview and audition and and 1:10:33.960 --> 1:10:36.280 we're going to send you some some stuff on the 1:10:36.560 --> 1:10:42.439 Georgia Alabama game from the previous football season from the season. 1:10:43.080 --> 1:10:46.120 So they send me all this literature and information on 1:10:46.160 --> 1:10:50.559 the game that was already played, and they want me 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.559 to kind of show up ready to go to be 1:10:53.600 --> 1:10:56.280 able to we're gonna do some studio work with you, 1:10:56.800 --> 1:10:59.320 and we're gonna do some play by play color work 1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:01.560 with you. I've never done play by playing color in 1:11:01.600 --> 1:11:05.920 my life. So I am up until I'm not exaggerating, 1:11:06.280 --> 1:11:08.960 I'm up till three or four in the morning putting 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:13.320 together aboard because the when I did Ohio State Radio 1:11:13.400 --> 1:11:15.200 and the play by play guy had this board that 1:11:15.320 --> 1:11:17.559 he would do. So ever reason I knew anybody did 1:11:17.560 --> 1:11:21.320 a board was he did it. So I'm up with 1:11:21.360 --> 1:11:24.200 all this literature they sent me, and I you know, 1:11:24.240 --> 1:11:27.559 I'm going over Andre Hastings and Eric Sire and all 1:11:27.600 --> 1:11:30.240 these different guys, and I'm like looking through their media 1:11:30.280 --> 1:11:33.040 guy to see any his cousin played, And you know, 1:11:33.400 --> 1:11:36.160 I mean, it took me forever, and I'm going through 1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:39.200 every player, every starter, and I made this board. I've 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:41.000 never worked as hard to this day on a board 1:11:41.000 --> 1:11:44.879 as I did that board. Um to go into that audition, 1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:47.519 So I fly the next day after doing all this 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:50.559 work on this board, we sit down and speak for 1:11:50.600 --> 1:11:53.120 a little bit, maybe for an hour, and they just 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:55.160 trying to get to know me a little bit. And 1:11:55.160 --> 1:11:57.519 then they say, okay, let's go downstairs. And they brought 1:11:57.600 --> 1:12:00.880 Jack Edwards, who used to be a sports bank on 1:12:01.040 --> 1:12:03.240 How do you remember him? He came in. I didn't. 1:12:03.880 --> 1:12:05.720 I didn't. I didn't really know anything about him or 1:12:05.720 --> 1:12:07.559 know who he was. I'd seen him on Sports Center. 1:12:08.240 --> 1:12:11.840 But we do like a segment. Um, they give me 1:12:11.840 --> 1:12:14.200 an idea of what we might talk about, they show me, 1:12:14.400 --> 1:12:15.720 give me a little bit of time to kind of 1:12:15.720 --> 1:12:17.880 go over it, and so we do like a little 1:12:17.880 --> 1:12:22.040 segment on TV. And they just watched me talk um, 1:12:22.240 --> 1:12:23.760 you know, see if I can speak and look at 1:12:23.760 --> 1:12:26.800 the camera. And we do that for fifteen or twenty minutes, 1:12:26.800 --> 1:12:28.840 and they say, okay, I remember we asked you to 1:12:28.920 --> 1:12:30.920 look at the George Alabama game. We want you to 1:12:31.360 --> 1:12:34.360 give any notes or anything. So I'm like so excited. 1:12:34.920 --> 1:12:38.120 It's down into my bag, pulled his board out. I mean, 1:12:38.120 --> 1:12:42.040 I've got hey. Jack Edwards looks at that and he's like, wow, 1:12:42.400 --> 1:12:44.960 it's like you put a little time, just like you 1:12:45.040 --> 1:12:47.559 put a little time into that, Like yeah, of course, yeah, 1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:50.719 I put it down and right on the sports center 1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:54.040 uh desk, and they put a game on in the 1:12:54.080 --> 1:12:57.000 monitor that's inside the desk, and Jack's acting like to 1:12:57.000 --> 1:13:00.080 play by play guy, and I'm being the color guy. 1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:05.599 And we probably all that work talking six hours easy 1:13:05.640 --> 1:13:09.880 on that you probably did three plays. And then they're like, okay, 1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:12.080 all right, thanks guys. Oh man, that's it. I said, 1:13:12.080 --> 1:13:14.519 we're gonna do the whole game, did like three t 1:13:14.880 --> 1:13:19.760 three plays, and then that was it. Put me in 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:22.760 a car some met the airport said thanks. And that 1:13:22.880 --> 1:13:29.840 was in April March or April of April, May, June, July, 1:13:30.720 --> 1:13:32.760 early August. I'm on a fishing trip in the Upper 1:13:32.800 --> 1:13:35.400 Peninsula with my dad and my uncle and my grandpa, 1:13:36.160 --> 1:13:38.840 and my roommate called and said, some guy named Mo 1:13:39.000 --> 1:13:42.439 Davenport from ESPN called you. He needs you to call 1:13:42.520 --> 1:13:45.960 him as soon as possible. Season starts in like four weeks. 1:13:46.160 --> 1:13:49.080 I honestly, again, i'd forgotten about it. I thought I 1:13:49.200 --> 1:13:53.680 just failed. They called me and offered me a thirteen 1:13:53.760 --> 1:13:58.559 week sideline reporting on a new station called ESPN two. 1:13:59.120 --> 1:14:01.559 I was going to be in eideline reporter. They're gonna 1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:05.240 pay me seven fifty dollars per game and right away 1:14:05.280 --> 1:14:12.920 I get my calculator out of my Yeah, weeks adding 1:14:12.960 --> 1:14:14.760 all that up to see kind of where we are, 1:14:15.240 --> 1:14:17.960 and sure enough it ended up I ended up taking 1:14:18.000 --> 1:14:21.320 that and kind of the rest is uh, the rest 1:14:21.400 --> 1:14:26.080 is history. But that all was working with Dwayne Stats 1:14:26.160 --> 1:14:32.360 and Todd Christiansen most weeks being the sideline reporter and 1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:38.280 that was crazy. Dude, How I'm nervous? Yeah, how nervous 1:14:38.400 --> 1:14:40.680 were you for that trip to ESPN? Because I think 1:14:40.720 --> 1:14:43.280 there's a lot of people listening right now who want 1:14:43.320 --> 1:14:46.040 that opportunity, right, they want to get a chance whatever 1:14:46.160 --> 1:14:48.680 field you're in. And like you talked about all the 1:14:48.680 --> 1:14:51.759 hours you prepared for like you were way over prepared 1:14:51.840 --> 1:14:54.040 for what you did, right, and you don't get any feedback, 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:56.919 but when you were walking into that room for that interview, 1:14:57.080 --> 1:14:58.439 and I think there's a lot of people who can 1:14:58.479 --> 1:15:01.640 experience that and have at some point in their careers, 1:15:01.640 --> 1:15:06.680 Like what did that feel like for you? Completely go 1:15:06.800 --> 1:15:09.519 back to what we talked about earlier about how shy 1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:14.200 I am as a person. Um I was. I was 1:15:14.240 --> 1:15:17.719 out of my comfort zone, but at the same time 1:15:19.000 --> 1:15:23.240 could not believe ESPN um had called me. So I 1:15:23.280 --> 1:15:25.400 was like, I'm going to see this through. I'm going 1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:30.759 to overcome I'm going to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, basically, 1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:35.720 is what I decided to do. And um walked in 1:15:35.760 --> 1:15:38.920 there and and ESPN. If you've never been there, it's 1:15:38.960 --> 1:15:41.040 it's it's like a kind of an even back then, 1:15:41.080 --> 1:15:44.519 it's like a big campus, you know, like I always 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:47.680 envisioned it being in New York City and with a 1:15:47.760 --> 1:15:51.080 huge buildings and you know that kind of thing. That 1:15:51.160 --> 1:15:54.320 was my perception of ESPN before I went there. And 1:15:54.320 --> 1:15:57.000 then I went there and it was it was like 1:15:57.080 --> 1:15:59.640 in a suburb, you know, and it just happened to 1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:03.799 be uh year years ago it was just a local 1:16:04.200 --> 1:16:08.439 New England sports network. It was you know, not not 1:16:08.680 --> 1:16:11.599 ever envisioned and growing and what it became. And so 1:16:12.560 --> 1:16:18.000 the founding fathers they weren't really worried about growth. And 1:16:18.080 --> 1:16:21.720 so by the time I came along in the mid nineties, 1:16:22.040 --> 1:16:24.000 they've been around for I don't know, you tell me 1:16:25.120 --> 1:16:28.240 twenty years, maybe fifteen seventeen years maybe by then, and 1:16:28.280 --> 1:16:30.599 so you could see that their growth was going out, 1:16:31.680 --> 1:16:35.519 you know, sideways, not up, and they were buying up 1:16:36.200 --> 1:16:38.599 McDonald's maybe across the street or they were buying this, 1:16:38.720 --> 1:16:41.439 or they're buying that because they were outgrowing um. And 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:43.400 so when you walk in there and you're you're going 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:46.200 in for an audition or an interview, man, it's it's daunting. 1:16:46.439 --> 1:16:49.640 It's it's a pretty intimidating experience, at least for me, 1:16:49.760 --> 1:16:52.120 especially for the lack of experience that I had at 1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:55.960 that point in my career. And they couldn't they couldn't 1:16:55.960 --> 1:16:58.280 have been any more gracious, but it's still pretty pretty 1:16:58.320 --> 1:17:01.960 scary thing to go through. You do the sidelines, uh 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:06.760 in I guess the fall of for ESPN two, how 1:17:06.800 --> 1:17:11.120 long do you do sidelines? So I I did that 1:17:11.240 --> 1:17:14.680 the entire year, and when we got to November, I 1:17:14.760 --> 1:17:18.800 kept reaching back to Moe Davenport, who was kind of 1:17:18.800 --> 1:17:22.840 the boss back then, and I kept saying, Hey, you know, 1:17:22.880 --> 1:17:25.519 if there's ever a game where somebody calls in sick, 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:28.360 or there's ever a game where you have more games 1:17:28.360 --> 1:17:32.360 and you have announcers and you need somebody, um, I 1:17:32.400 --> 1:17:36.519 would love to do some color. It's I can ever 1:17:36.560 --> 1:17:38.560 do that for you love to have a chance to 1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:41.280 took all game? And He's like, I hear, yeah, I hear, 1:17:41.360 --> 1:17:43.799 you just be paid just be patient. Just be patient 1:17:43.880 --> 1:17:49.240 kind of thing. Oh. Um, the whole season went through. 1:17:49.320 --> 1:17:51.559 We get near the end of the season and he 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:55.360 calls me and he says, I think I've got an 1:17:55.400 --> 1:18:00.519 opportunity for you. Um it's Minnesota. This by the way, 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:04.400 this isn't like Main versus New Hampshire, Right, I mean again, 1:18:04.400 --> 1:18:06.200 you can go back to my age and where I 1:18:06.280 --> 1:18:08.479 was at this point in my career, I was doing 1:18:08.479 --> 1:18:11.040 sideline reporting and most of the the games. My first game 1:18:11.120 --> 1:18:14.960 was Hawaii in Texas with Ricky Williams as a true 1:18:15.000 --> 1:18:19.720 freshman at Hawaii. Um, we're doing so. I mean, you 1:18:19.760 --> 1:18:22.760 got paid fifty dollars, but your airfare costs more than 1:18:22.800 --> 1:18:26.000 that at least, right, I mean to get out to Hawaii, Well, 1:18:26.080 --> 1:18:28.800 luckily ESPN covered for Yeah. Yeah, That's what I'm saying. 1:18:28.880 --> 1:18:30.679 But like, I mean, that's that's pretty that's a pretty 1:18:30.680 --> 1:18:34.120 awesome game to get to go to. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. 1:18:34.120 --> 1:18:36.200 And I'm in Hawaii and so I'm seeing the country. 1:18:36.200 --> 1:18:38.920 I'm seeing the world outside of the Big Ten. And 1:18:39.320 --> 1:18:41.320 I was in the Mountain West, a bunch with like 1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:44.680 teams like Sunny Lubick in Colorado State and and b 1:18:45.000 --> 1:18:46.679 y U and then we went into the Big Ten 1:18:46.880 --> 1:18:49.720 and and so we bounced around. I had a really 1:18:49.720 --> 1:18:52.240 good experience with it. But like I said, halfway through 1:18:52.240 --> 1:18:53.800 where I reached out if there's any games. So he 1:18:53.880 --> 1:18:58.000 calls me and says, I got a game for you. Minnesota, Wisconsin. 1:18:58.600 --> 1:19:02.280 That's what they crafted all Bunyan acts, you know, and 1:19:02.320 --> 1:19:05.000 it's always a sold out game, and it's gonna be 1:19:05.040 --> 1:19:08.240 at the Metrodome. It's gonna be a Minneapolis You're gonna 1:19:08.240 --> 1:19:12.200 be calling the game. And I'm like, oh, that's awesome, 1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:17.120 you know. And obviously I knew Wisconsin and Minnesota from 1:19:17.120 --> 1:19:19.200 being in the Big Ten, but I didn't really respect 1:19:19.280 --> 1:19:24.720 or understand that rivalry until that week. Um Man, the 1:19:24.720 --> 1:19:27.040 play by play guy's name is escaped in me. He 1:19:27.080 --> 1:19:32.000 did hockey for a long time, he did baseball. I'll 1:19:32.040 --> 1:19:37.680 think of it. Um just a quality broadcaster, really good guy, 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:39.840 but a but a guy that had been around and 1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:43.400 and and done a lot of different games. At this 1:19:43.479 --> 1:19:46.240 point in his career, was really known as a hockey guy, 1:19:46.680 --> 1:19:51.080 MLB guy. Um So, but he did some college football 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:54.880 that year, and so I'm teamed up with him and 1:19:56.240 --> 1:19:58.280 he's he's like, have you ever done this? And I 1:19:58.320 --> 1:20:00.640 said no, and he's like, oh you're Evila. He was 1:20:00.800 --> 1:20:02.400 just great. He's like, you're gonna have a lot of fun. 1:20:02.439 --> 1:20:04.280 You're gonna do a great job. And we worked together 1:20:04.320 --> 1:20:07.160 for that week and I called that game and it 1:20:07.280 --> 1:20:11.080 was actually a great game, and Wisconsin ended up winning 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:13.200 the game and ran across the field and you know, 1:20:13.240 --> 1:20:15.200 grabbed the acts and it's like, you know, they're cutting 1:20:15.240 --> 1:20:17.639 down the goal post or you know, faking like they're 1:20:17.640 --> 1:20:19.439 cutting down the goal post. But it was just a 1:20:19.479 --> 1:20:23.599 really cool experience. And this sounds crazy, but of all 1:20:23.600 --> 1:20:26.920 the things I've ever done, nothing has felt more natural 1:20:27.200 --> 1:20:31.760 to me than that been. Like calling a game, like 1:20:32.200 --> 1:20:36.120 doing the audition did not feel natural to me, um 1:20:36.160 --> 1:20:38.439 doing you know, all these things that I've ever done, 1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:42.559 even locally doing radio and doing that Sunday night show 1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:45.280 that I did, reading prompter didn't feel naturally to me. 1:20:45.920 --> 1:20:50.360 Calling the Wisconsin Minnesota game felt as natural to me 1:20:50.880 --> 1:20:53.800 as anything I've ever done. And so that's when I 1:20:53.840 --> 1:20:57.200 was like, this, this is where I've got to get. 1:20:57.320 --> 1:20:59.759 This is what I want to do. When I called 1:20:59.760 --> 1:21:01.759 that game, and that was the end of the ninety 1:21:01.800 --> 1:21:05.360 five season, and then as the season ended, a month 1:21:05.439 --> 1:21:08.080 or two later, they called me back and said, hey, listen, 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:11.360 we got another opportunity for you, and we're going to 1:21:12.160 --> 1:21:15.800 have you do the entire arena football season for this 1:21:15.960 --> 1:21:20.280 spring and and work with Todd Christiansen, who's going to 1:21:20.360 --> 1:21:22.439 do the play by play, and you're going to be 1:21:22.479 --> 1:21:25.240 the color gap man, and you guys gonna call fifteen 1:21:25.320 --> 1:21:27.880 weeks throughout the spring and into the summer, and it's 1:21:27.880 --> 1:21:30.960 gonna be on ESPN. And I was like, in, I'm in. 1:21:31.439 --> 1:21:32.960 I want the reps that I want to do that. 1:21:33.080 --> 1:21:35.439 I don't know a thing about arena football, but I'm 1:21:35.479 --> 1:21:37.840 in and I had So that was what I did 1:21:38.240 --> 1:21:42.400 in the spring of nine and did. The color guy 1:21:42.439 --> 1:21:45.160 by the name of Kurt Warner was the star of 1:21:45.840 --> 1:21:49.040 the league that year. He was the m VT before 1:21:49.040 --> 1:21:51.400 he went to the Rams, and he played for a 1:21:51.400 --> 1:21:54.320 team called the Iowa Barnstormers. So we'd be in like 1:21:54.840 --> 1:21:58.200 Cedar Rapids, calling games, you know, just all over the place. 1:21:58.280 --> 1:22:01.400 And I actually had a really cool time time calling 1:22:01.400 --> 1:22:04.960 the games and getting those those valuable reps doing color work. 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:09.320 And then halfway through that season, I get a call 1:22:09.479 --> 1:22:13.479 that says Craig James has left game day he's going 1:22:13.600 --> 1:22:17.479 to CBS. To CBS got to the NFL from Fox, 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:19.559 so he's going to be part of their new studio show. 1:22:20.200 --> 1:22:22.479 We have an opening on college game Day. They literally 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:25.240 told me, you're not going to get the job, but 1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:27.559 at this stage of your career, be really good for 1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:29.680 you to just go through the experience. We're gonna fly 1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:32.479 Corso and fouler in. Be good for you to just 1:22:32.520 --> 1:22:34.600 go through that experience and just kind of see what 1:22:34.600 --> 1:22:39.200 it's like. So I said, okay, great, flew in in 1:22:39.200 --> 1:22:41.320 the middle of the week because those those arena games 1:22:41.320 --> 1:22:46.160 around the weekend, flew in sat down. There's lead Corso 1:22:46.240 --> 1:22:49.479 sitting right next to me. I'm like, oh my gosh, 1:22:49.720 --> 1:22:52.599 like and he could He's just like he is not hey, hey, 1:22:52.640 --> 1:22:56.400 how you doing, just talking to and uh, how you're 1:22:56.400 --> 1:22:58.639 gonna kill him? A great jock. You're gonna have fun. 1:22:58.640 --> 1:23:02.160 Here we go, get ready and then music starts that 1:23:01.920 --> 1:23:06.400 that that that and Fowlers, you know, welcomes us and 1:23:06.479 --> 1:23:08.040 we do it. We do a segment. We do like 1:23:08.280 --> 1:23:11.040 a dummy segment, and I think there were maybe five 1:23:11.160 --> 1:23:13.280 or six guys that came in. I have no idea 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:16.639 who the other guys were. I think Mike Adamlee might 1:23:16.640 --> 1:23:18.120 have been one of the other guys, but I'm not 1:23:18.120 --> 1:23:21.679 sure who the other guys were. And we got done, 1:23:22.640 --> 1:23:25.519 and a couple of weeks, maybe two or three weeks 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:27.479 go by, I go back to an arena football games 1:23:27.960 --> 1:23:32.760 and my agent called me and said, um, he's like, 1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:35.800 you're not gonna believe this, but they're going to hire 1:23:35.840 --> 1:23:38.360 you to do a college game day. I was like, 1:23:39.000 --> 1:23:42.160 I was in the Detroit airport actually on my way 1:23:42.200 --> 1:23:44.960 up to Iowa on a connection and stopped at a 1:23:45.000 --> 1:23:50.080 pay phone. How about that, Yeah, that's amazing. Yes, And 1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:54.560 called him on my sprint card, Um the eight and 1:23:54.560 --> 1:23:56.120 then you wait for the ding and then you dial 1:23:56.240 --> 1:23:59.840 the number. And called him and he told me, yeah, 1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:03.960 going to do the you canna do? You've assigning to 1:24:04.000 --> 1:24:07.720 a three year deal. And that was That was the 1:24:07.760 --> 1:24:13.600 summer of nineties six and that's that was it. I 1:24:13.720 --> 1:24:17.320 was doing it ever since. So you're how old in 1:24:17.439 --> 1:24:23.559 this at twenty six years old? Now, game day to 1:24:23.640 --> 1:24:25.519 be fair for people who were listening to us right 1:24:25.520 --> 1:24:29.839 now in nine is a shadow of what it would become. 1:24:30.000 --> 1:24:32.640 Right I I did did go on. I mean it 1:24:32.720 --> 1:24:35.000 was it was just kind of starting to become the 1:24:35.200 --> 1:24:39.559 iconic show that it would become. But I mean at 1:24:39.560 --> 1:24:41.800 the age of twenty six, like you just said, your 1:24:41.800 --> 1:24:45.360 sons are, you know, nineteen years old now at Clemson, 1:24:45.800 --> 1:24:48.799 like your four years or three years out of college. 1:24:48.840 --> 1:24:51.360 I mean, that had to be kind of unbelievable. But 1:24:51.439 --> 1:24:53.880 also you probably didn't even realize how big it was 1:24:53.960 --> 1:24:55.840 going to be, or did you at that point in time. 1:24:56.720 --> 1:25:01.160 Man again, at six, you're thinking of tomorrow. You're not 1:25:01.320 --> 1:25:03.800 thinking about the show. I just knew that I was 1:25:03.840 --> 1:25:09.240 on machine, always watched and even at that time, while 1:25:09.240 --> 1:25:12.880 it didn't have the audience, um that we have now 1:25:12.880 --> 1:25:16.920 when we show up around the set, I think most 1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:27.040 people who liked college football tuned into being that show. Yeah, 1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:30.080 I think, yeah, yeah. I mean there was that show, 1:25:30.120 --> 1:25:34.760 and there was a show on CNN with Chuck Uh there. 1:25:35.520 --> 1:25:38.160 You had a few options if you're a college football fan. 1:25:38.240 --> 1:25:41.519 But that that show was kind of unique because the 1:25:41.560 --> 1:25:45.680 correct James and Corso and it was just starting to 1:25:45.760 --> 1:25:48.640 travel on the road. Um that kind of gave it 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:51.320 a you know, kind of a unique feel to it. 1:25:51.880 --> 1:25:55.160 But man, I again, you're just flying by the senior 1:25:55.280 --> 1:25:57.320 You could see in my career how things just kind 1:25:57.320 --> 1:26:00.040 of went like all of a sudden just cruise and 1:26:00.120 --> 1:26:02.719 then bing bing bing bing bing, like it just everything 1:26:02.760 --> 1:26:07.160 just kind of happened at once, and um so I 1:26:07.600 --> 1:26:11.160 wasn't really thinking where this might go or how long 1:26:11.200 --> 1:26:13.400 am I going to do this, or I was just 1:26:13.439 --> 1:26:20.519 thinking honestly going back to you know, going through being 1:26:20.520 --> 1:26:24.479 honest with yourself. My biggest thing was I'm not going 1:26:24.520 --> 1:26:28.000 to hide the fact that I'm an anomaly in this 1:26:28.200 --> 1:26:32.759 business on a national level level. I'm not a Heisman 1:26:32.800 --> 1:26:35.720 Trophy winner, i was not a household name on a 1:26:35.840 --> 1:26:39.840 national level. People in the Big ten region probably have 1:26:39.960 --> 1:26:45.439 heard of me. People in the SEC A, SEC Big twelve, 1:26:46.160 --> 1:26:50.080 PAC twelve have literally no idea who I am. So 1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:53.880 instead of being embarrassed about that or hiding from that, 1:26:55.240 --> 1:26:57.519 I decided to go back to what I did with 1:26:57.640 --> 1:27:01.919 that board, which was I'm going to be the hardest 1:27:02.080 --> 1:27:07.080 working analysts. So they may not know who I am, 1:27:07.120 --> 1:27:09.919 but they're going to realize, man, that guy seems pretty prepared. 1:27:09.960 --> 1:27:12.600 That guy seems that nobody's talking about Like that was 1:27:12.680 --> 1:27:16.160 my goal from the beginning, was to try to be 1:27:16.280 --> 1:27:19.320 that guy that people would just because I knew I 1:27:19.400 --> 1:27:23.760 as a viewer myself. I respected guys like that, so 1:27:23.880 --> 1:27:26.920 I thought, I don't really know, I'm not talented enough 1:27:26.960 --> 1:27:29.559 to be a stick guy. I don't really don't even 1:27:29.560 --> 1:27:33.920 know what that means. So I'm going to be myself 1:27:34.360 --> 1:27:37.960 and I'm going to be uh, the most prepared guy 1:27:37.960 --> 1:27:42.280 on the set. Like those are my goals, and that's 1:27:42.400 --> 1:27:44.880 what I've decided to do. And I think over the 1:27:44.880 --> 1:27:47.880 course of a couple of years, and you know, I 1:27:48.200 --> 1:27:52.320 started to find that people were willing to accept what 1:27:52.400 --> 1:27:55.280 I had to say because of the way I was 1:27:56.120 --> 1:27:58.640 working at it. And I think that that kind of 1:27:58.680 --> 1:28:01.880 allowed me to create a brand and for myself that 1:28:02.200 --> 1:28:04.320 if even to this day, here we are twenty five 1:28:04.400 --> 1:28:07.599 years later. You know, people don't know me like they 1:28:07.600 --> 1:28:10.560 know Desmond. They know Desmond from winning a Heisman and 1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:13.960 doing a Heisman pose. You know, they know David Pollock 1:28:14.080 --> 1:28:16.679 for being whatever he was, three time All American or whatever. 1:28:17.200 --> 1:28:21.240 You know, like the most guys on TV, they they 1:28:21.240 --> 1:28:25.040 are known, uh first and foremost for for the kind 1:28:25.040 --> 1:28:29.280 of player they were. And for me, I think I 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:33.320 am known more for for better or worse, for the 1:28:33.360 --> 1:28:38.080 analysts that I am on TV. And it's taken five 1:28:38.160 --> 1:28:41.960 years to to build that up, and like I said, 1:28:41.960 --> 1:28:43.880 I think it all goes back to me. Instead of 1:28:44.560 --> 1:28:49.200 being bashful or ashamed of people not knowing who I am, 1:28:49.320 --> 1:28:52.240 I decided to kind of hit that head on as 1:28:52.240 --> 1:28:54.960 opposed to running from it and trying to avoid it. 1:28:55.240 --> 1:28:57.400 What was the first game you did with game Day? 1:28:58.840 --> 1:29:01.840 First game Day? We did it on the road in 1:29:02.000 --> 1:29:07.960 ninety six was Michigan at Colorado at fulsome field in Boulder, Colorado. 1:29:08.000 --> 1:29:09.400 You and I were talking from it. Came on the 1:29:09.400 --> 1:29:11.280 air about how beautiful this time of the year it 1:29:11.360 --> 1:29:13.680 is to go out to the Rockies. He got a 1:29:13.760 --> 1:29:17.240 chance to do that, and you think about a game 1:29:17.240 --> 1:29:20.680 in September out in Boulder. Um, they're really at the 1:29:20.680 --> 1:29:25.280 foothills there, the Rockies. I I just was like, wow, 1:29:25.439 --> 1:29:29.679 this is incredible. How nervous. How nervous were you before 1:29:29.760 --> 1:29:36.200 that first show? Um? I was nervous, but I wasn't 1:29:36.880 --> 1:29:41.400 terrified like I wasn't Um I was. I was in 1:29:41.439 --> 1:29:44.599 an okay place because the guys that I worked with. 1:29:45.120 --> 1:29:49.240 I think the thing that brought me, um some hesitation 1:29:49.560 --> 1:29:53.280 or some nerves was how would Fowler be towards me? 1:29:54.280 --> 1:29:57.640 You know, he was such an established leader of that 1:29:57.760 --> 1:30:01.040 show of corso was just so as soon as you 1:30:01.080 --> 1:30:03.080 meet him, he's just like if you and I were 1:30:03.120 --> 1:30:05.759 together right now, we can and had said, hey, coaches, 1:30:05.880 --> 1:30:09.800 is Clay you don't like? He just has that personality. 1:30:10.040 --> 1:30:13.599 He just makes you feel welcome. It's just him. Chris 1:30:13.680 --> 1:30:16.400 is the guy you gotta He makes you feel welcome, 1:30:16.400 --> 1:30:19.280 but you gotta kind of earn your stripes with him. 1:30:19.400 --> 1:30:22.280 And so if I had any trepidation at all, it 1:30:22.400 --> 1:30:26.679 was this Chris respect me, you know, does he think 1:30:27.640 --> 1:30:30.439 I'm okay to be on the show? Like? And I 1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:34.680 wanted to make sure he felt comfortable with me. I 1:30:34.680 --> 1:30:38.360 didn't really have fear of being on air or nerves 1:30:38.400 --> 1:30:41.120 of being on air. I just was I just wanted 1:30:41.160 --> 1:30:44.800 them to know they could count on me as being 1:30:44.840 --> 1:30:48.559 a good teammate and holding up my end of of 1:30:48.600 --> 1:30:51.840 the job or my responsibility you know, on the set. 1:30:51.920 --> 1:30:54.920 And you know, and I think Chris and I over 1:30:55.000 --> 1:30:58.439 the years of really built a pretty strong bond, you know, 1:30:58.479 --> 1:31:02.320 in that regard. But yeah, early years, especially that first year, 1:31:02.840 --> 1:31:05.880 that was my main thing was I don't know if 1:31:05.880 --> 1:31:07.920 you know Chris or watch him or been around it, 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:12.439 but he is true professional you know, and he's he's 1:31:12.479 --> 1:31:15.439 his own worst critic for himself and for the show, 1:31:15.920 --> 1:31:18.680 and is not afraid to talk about that in meetings, 1:31:18.720 --> 1:31:21.360 and you know, and that's what makes him great, you 1:31:21.360 --> 1:31:24.400 know what he does. And so more so than the 1:31:24.439 --> 1:31:28.840 producers and the bosses, Chris was the guy that I 1:31:28.920 --> 1:31:33.200 was always trying to make sure kind of get his blessing, 1:31:33.320 --> 1:31:35.920 I guess more than anything. So when you are doing 1:31:35.920 --> 1:31:37.479 Game Day and you've been doing it for twenty five 1:31:37.560 --> 1:31:39.479 years now, I guess or whatever the math is on that, 1:31:39.520 --> 1:31:41.120 which is wild to think about. And there are a 1:31:41.160 --> 1:31:43.200 lot of people listening to us right now who are like, 1:31:43.240 --> 1:31:45.360 I can't believe, you know, like ninety six doesn't seem 1:31:45.439 --> 1:31:47.040 very long ago to me. You know, I can think 1:31:47.080 --> 1:31:49.080 about the players and the games that happened back then, 1:31:49.439 --> 1:31:51.479 but you think about how many games there have been 1:31:51.520 --> 1:31:54.120 over the years, and how much you have done. How 1:31:54.160 --> 1:31:55.720 did you so. One of the things that I talked 1:31:55.720 --> 1:31:59.439 about with with younger people is writing, radio and TV 1:31:59.680 --> 1:32:02.960 are all different disciplines and what works really well and 1:32:03.120 --> 1:32:05.479 one of them might not work in the next might 1:32:05.479 --> 1:32:07.320 not work in the other. You have to learn how 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:08.680 to be good at all of them. You said you 1:32:08.720 --> 1:32:11.280 did local radio, you were good at it, It's totally 1:32:11.360 --> 1:32:14.080 different dynamic. How did you get good at television? Like? 1:32:14.080 --> 1:32:16.559 Who did you learn from? What did you do to 1:32:16.760 --> 1:32:20.080 become comfortable? Would you go back and watch old game days? 1:32:20.280 --> 1:32:22.400 Would you go back and watch games that you called? 1:32:22.640 --> 1:32:24.880 How did you sort of refine and get better at 1:32:24.920 --> 1:32:29.240 your craft? Um? I think the big thing that I 1:32:29.280 --> 1:32:34.960 did was I had my my eyes open and my 1:32:35.080 --> 1:32:39.799 ears open, and I was paying attention to other people, 1:32:40.760 --> 1:32:44.360 most notably Leek Horso, who they was the only other 1:32:44.400 --> 1:32:47.680 analyst on the set at the time. And what I 1:32:47.760 --> 1:32:50.720 quickly learned was I was going to be myself. When 1:32:50.720 --> 1:32:53.519 I first started on the job, a few producers pulled 1:32:53.520 --> 1:32:55.600 me aside and said, you're going about this wrong. You 1:32:55.640 --> 1:32:58.679 need to argue more with Corso. You're being too nice 1:32:58.680 --> 1:33:01.439 to him. That's not going to work. And because they 1:33:01.479 --> 1:33:05.080 were used to correct, James and Corso kind of going 1:33:05.240 --> 1:33:08.840 really going at it. That became their stick was those 1:33:08.880 --> 1:33:13.680 two arguing with each other. And Craig had a big personality, 1:33:13.760 --> 1:33:17.799 think kind of just kind of southern guy from Texas 1:33:17.840 --> 1:33:20.280 and just like, man, oh man, you're crazy, you know, 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:23.080 just just and I here, I am grew up with 1:33:23.120 --> 1:33:25.479 my dad as a coach, all those other coaches that 1:33:25.600 --> 1:33:28.799 I was more I would. I always treated coaches with respect. 1:33:28.920 --> 1:33:32.240 I could never go like, of course, so you're crazy, 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:35.200 Like I just couldn't do that. And so, especially how 1:33:35.280 --> 1:33:39.000 nice he was being to me off air, I could 1:33:39.040 --> 1:33:42.240 not stick it up. I had to be myself, and 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:47.000 so the show changed drastically when I came on because 1:33:47.120 --> 1:33:49.479 I was not I'd argue with them, but it was 1:33:49.520 --> 1:33:52.000 in a kind of respectful tone. And so what I 1:33:52.000 --> 1:33:55.080 did I answer your question was I realized I could 1:33:55.120 --> 1:34:00.240 never be Lee Corso. But I realized was I thought 1:34:00.240 --> 1:34:03.280 they hired me to be a football analysts covered to 1:34:04.240 --> 1:34:10.000 three technique, inverted safety, four verticals. And what I learned 1:34:10.280 --> 1:34:15.160 was Lee Corso always says in our meetings, we're in 1:34:15.200 --> 1:34:19.559 the entertainment business. We are. And what I realized was 1:34:20.160 --> 1:34:23.760 if you watch game there, you watch Shack and Charles, Like, 1:34:24.240 --> 1:34:28.519 the reason those two shows work is because they're not 1:34:28.840 --> 1:34:31.280 beating you over the head with let me show you 1:34:31.320 --> 1:34:34.240 how much football I know. Like, don't get me wrong, 1:34:34.479 --> 1:34:36.880 we'll talk some football and we'll break some film down, 1:34:37.560 --> 1:34:43.559 but we're more kind of laughing self deprecating, teasing each other. 1:34:44.080 --> 1:34:47.040 Rinaldi's gonna make you cry. We're gonna come back and 1:34:47.040 --> 1:34:49.120 we're gonna kind of cry or laugh some more at 1:34:49.120 --> 1:34:51.800 each other. We're gonna get you some real XCEL football talk. 1:34:51.960 --> 1:34:54.920 It's kind of like a mixed bag. And what I 1:34:55.240 --> 1:34:58.320 guess I learned how I personally fit into that was 1:34:58.840 --> 1:35:01.200 I'm not here to just beat people over the head 1:35:01.240 --> 1:35:03.960 with XO talk. See when I first got into it, 1:35:04.000 --> 1:35:06.720 I thought I was here for exo talk, And when 1:35:06.720 --> 1:35:10.679 I quickly learned was there's way more more to studio 1:35:10.680 --> 1:35:15.920 television than just exo talk. And I think being aware 1:35:15.920 --> 1:35:18.920 of her and just then being an observer and being 1:35:18.960 --> 1:35:21.479 a listener and being willing to change and being willing 1:35:21.520 --> 1:35:24.880 to tweak and being willing to kind of stay kind 1:35:24.880 --> 1:35:27.920 of just me, not trying to be somebody else. I'm 1:35:27.920 --> 1:35:31.240 just gonna be me. Um. I think you just kind 1:35:31.240 --> 1:35:34.840 of grow and develop and kind of put your foot 1:35:34.840 --> 1:35:36.719 in the water over here a little bit, you see 1:35:36.720 --> 1:35:38.960 if that kind of feels all right, and maybe go 1:35:39.040 --> 1:35:41.479 over here a little bit, and you just try to. 1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:44.840 Most importantly, you just try, and you you do studio work. 1:35:45.000 --> 1:35:47.240 I mean, you understand when you can when you can 1:35:47.280 --> 1:35:50.639 be yourself. I think when things typically work the best. 1:35:51.200 --> 1:35:55.320 Like I hate when our producers right or try to 1:35:55.400 --> 1:35:59.840 script something that's going to be funny, because it's never funny. Like, 1:36:00.080 --> 1:36:03.480 the things that end up being most memorable and funny 1:36:03.720 --> 1:36:06.960 are the things that are impromptu, are things that are unpredictable. 1:36:06.960 --> 1:36:11.559 Like if you went to dinner, we wouldn't script out 1:36:11.560 --> 1:36:14.120 our dinner conversation. Like we could just go to dinner 1:36:14.160 --> 1:36:16.559 and we hang out and you'd probably end up saying 1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:18.600 something that kind of had us all laughing or we 1:36:18.920 --> 1:36:20.920 kind of respond to it someone else to be laughing, 1:36:20.920 --> 1:36:25.240 And it's just very natural spontaneous conversation to me. If 1:36:25.320 --> 1:36:28.000 you can do that, then I think you can have 1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:30.799 really good TV. It just happens that we're talking college 1:36:30.800 --> 1:36:35.519 football and coaches and opinions and and things of that nature. 1:36:35.600 --> 1:36:38.960 And um, I just think that there has to be 1:36:39.000 --> 1:36:42.559 a willingness to listen and grow and not kind of 1:36:42.600 --> 1:36:45.840 put yourself into a box. And That's what I've done 1:36:45.880 --> 1:36:48.040 and I still do. I still feel like I'm changing 1:36:48.040 --> 1:36:55.160 and growing and adapting, um along the way. How how 1:36:55.200 --> 1:36:58.400 have you avoid that? At six? You're basically a contemporary 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:01.680 of the players at your age. Now you're a contemporary 1:37:01.760 --> 1:37:04.840 of the coaches. How has your worldview changed as you've 1:37:04.880 --> 1:37:06.920 gone from you've got four kids, You've got kids who 1:37:06.960 --> 1:37:09.200 are going to be freshmen in college. Now I can 1:37:09.240 --> 1:37:11.439 see this on my own life with you know, you 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:14.759 start to see things through the parents eyes as opposed 1:37:14.760 --> 1:37:17.280 to the kid's eyes. You certainly have had to follow 1:37:17.320 --> 1:37:19.840 that trajectory in a public way on game day. Have 1:37:19.920 --> 1:37:24.800 you felt it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, we 1:37:24.880 --> 1:37:27.080 used to kind of kid Courso because he was the 1:37:27.120 --> 1:37:30.080 guy that saw things through coaches eyes and that generation, 1:37:30.880 --> 1:37:33.639 and we were the younger guys, and we've kind of 1:37:33.720 --> 1:37:36.880 kind of kind of elbow him and giggle at him. 1:37:37.120 --> 1:37:40.759 And I think what I have found is having kids 1:37:40.840 --> 1:37:43.400 Number one helps you know, to keep you kind of 1:37:43.400 --> 1:37:46.600 plugged into to the world and and that kind of 1:37:46.640 --> 1:37:50.120 that next generation. I think that's number one for me. 1:37:50.439 --> 1:37:56.000 Number two is I think that, um, you don't always 1:37:56.000 --> 1:38:00.800 have to agree with what you're seeing. Um, like we 1:38:00.800 --> 1:38:03.519 were talking about the transfer portal. I'm not trying to 1:38:03.600 --> 1:38:06.280 sound like a guy from a different generation like these 1:38:06.320 --> 1:38:09.040 kids today are crazy. I'm just trying to tell you 1:38:09.120 --> 1:38:13.439 what what that experience did for me by staying. And 1:38:14.400 --> 1:38:16.760 I think people who jump to the transfer portal have 1:38:16.880 --> 1:38:19.439 to you know, as I said, it's an individual case 1:38:19.479 --> 1:38:22.200 by case study, but I do think that, um, I 1:38:22.280 --> 1:38:25.960 have some experience there, and I I refuse to be 1:38:26.040 --> 1:38:29.080 like trawl Line and the Sam guy like this is 1:38:29.120 --> 1:38:30.880 the way it is, it's the way it should be, 1:38:30.960 --> 1:38:35.320 this way it always be like I'm just not that guy. UM. 1:38:35.360 --> 1:38:39.520 I try to really stay plugged in, you know, strategically, 1:38:40.040 --> 1:38:43.880 but also I think as you're saying, just the you know, 1:38:43.920 --> 1:38:46.599 the way the world has changed. I stay plugged in 1:38:46.640 --> 1:38:49.000 with Lincoln Riley. You know. I used to talk with 1:38:49.040 --> 1:38:51.720 Pete Carroll all the time, and I love to have 1:38:51.840 --> 1:38:55.160 heart to hearts with these coaches when there's no camera on, 1:38:55.200 --> 1:38:57.839 there's no mike, it's just me and them just talking, 1:38:58.320 --> 1:39:01.280 and I like to find out like this is going on. 1:39:01.400 --> 1:39:03.519 Since the mid nineties, I've done this, so I do 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:06.400 it every year. Just talk to them about life, just 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:08.800 talk to them about their challenges with they're facing in 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:11.599 their locker room. And I try to be the guy 1:39:11.680 --> 1:39:15.360 that's plugged into ten, not the guy that was plugged 1:39:15.360 --> 1:39:19.360 in the that's trying to figure out, so what's is 1:39:19.400 --> 1:39:22.120 it's still going on in ten you know, I think 1:39:22.640 --> 1:39:25.479 people that that do what we do, whether it's coaches 1:39:25.600 --> 1:39:29.280 or broadcasters or whoever it is, it's around for you know, 1:39:29.680 --> 1:39:33.519 a you know, a couple of decades or longer, you're 1:39:33.640 --> 1:39:36.720 you're making a big mistake if you think. And you 1:39:36.720 --> 1:39:39.439 can listen to broadcaster as it tell guys that they 1:39:39.520 --> 1:39:42.160 talked about when they played and you know they played 1:39:42.200 --> 1:39:44.600 like twenty five years ago, like what is you what 1:39:44.760 --> 1:39:48.599 is your experience as you're you're playing days? What does 1:39:48.600 --> 1:39:50.240 that have to do with this third and six? For 1:39:50.320 --> 1:39:54.320 Aaron Rodgers? Like nothing? You know. So so I try 1:39:54.320 --> 1:39:57.519 to be a guy that talks about today as much 1:39:57.560 --> 1:40:00.920 as I can, not only through my own life experiences, 1:40:01.680 --> 1:40:06.799 but through a lot of work with the players from today, 1:40:07.280 --> 1:40:10.559 talking to them about, you know what, what their challenges 1:40:10.600 --> 1:40:13.080 are that they face, and then also, like I said, 1:40:13.080 --> 1:40:16.040 the coaches. And I think I've just found by doing that, 1:40:16.720 --> 1:40:21.160 being inquisitive, having open dialogue with guys about not just 1:40:21.280 --> 1:40:24.320 football but about life, I've just found that helps me 1:40:24.400 --> 1:40:29.000 kind of stay plugged into um just being relevant, you know, 1:40:29.040 --> 1:40:35.040 to to today, whether it was or or or if 1:40:35.040 --> 1:40:38.840 we're talking, like I just feel like that's part of 1:40:38.880 --> 1:40:43.479 my responsibility is to continue to kind of grow and 1:40:43.479 --> 1:40:47.439 and change and band from one way or another with 1:40:48.000 --> 1:40:50.920 some of the social demands and challenges that everybody faces, 1:40:50.920 --> 1:40:54.519 whether it's players or coaches. Fox Sports Radio has the 1:40:54.600 --> 1:40:57.519 best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of 1:40:57.520 --> 1:41:01.080 our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within 1:41:01.080 --> 1:41:03.560 the I Heart Radio apps. Search f s R to 1:41:03.720 --> 1:41:07.120 listen live. Talking to Kirk urb Straight, I'm Clay Travis. 1:41:07.160 --> 1:41:10.759 This is Wins and Losses Podcast. You are a voice 1:41:11.160 --> 1:41:13.800 for a massive audience when you call a game. You've 1:41:13.800 --> 1:41:16.160 got a big audience on game day, but the audience 1:41:16.200 --> 1:41:19.719 for calling a college football national championship game or playoff 1:41:19.800 --> 1:41:24.120 game is seismically larger than that. We're in a world 1:41:24.280 --> 1:41:29.840 where audiences are diminishing almost everywhere but sports, right, Um, 1:41:29.840 --> 1:41:33.360 how do you talk to everyone? It's it's it's a 1:41:33.400 --> 1:41:35.920 broad question, but I'm curious how much you think about it, 1:41:36.000 --> 1:41:39.000 Because you're talking to the eighty year old grandma when 1:41:39.040 --> 1:41:41.679 you call a game, and you're talking to the six 1:41:41.760 --> 1:41:44.639 year old who maybe watching his first national title game, 1:41:45.040 --> 1:41:47.880 and they all are hearing your voice. It's very unique. 1:41:47.880 --> 1:41:49.519 You know, back in the day when we grew up, 1:41:49.840 --> 1:41:52.599 everybody would watch, for instance, The Cosby Show, and every 1:41:52.640 --> 1:41:56.400 sitcom had to appeal to everybody. Right, you are still 1:41:56.439 --> 1:41:59.599 in the business of appealing to everybody in an age 1:41:59.680 --> 1:42:03.479 when everybody wants their voice to be heard and every sentence, 1:42:03.520 --> 1:42:06.760 you know, gets dissected. I'm curious how much that has 1:42:06.840 --> 1:42:09.840 changed as you've called games, and whether you even really 1:42:09.840 --> 1:42:12.400 think about it and how you go about talking to 1:42:12.439 --> 1:42:19.120 an audience that big man, great question. Um, you know 1:42:19.160 --> 1:42:21.000 what I'm talking about, right, because you remember like it 1:42:21.080 --> 1:42:23.439 used to be like you would sit down and everybody 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:26.679 would watch the same television show together, and Grandma would 1:42:26.720 --> 1:42:29.360 like the Cosby Show the same way that six year 1:42:29.360 --> 1:42:31.160 old would watch The Cosby Show, and they had all 1:42:31.200 --> 1:42:34.120 those kids to play the different role the grandparents are 1:42:34.120 --> 1:42:36.920 on there. Nowadays everything is a niche, right, Like your 1:42:36.960 --> 1:42:40.000 boys are nineteen. They may love something that you've never 1:42:40.040 --> 1:42:42.360 heard of. In fact, they probably do, and you may 1:42:42.439 --> 1:42:44.960 love something that they've never heard of. Yet you're both 1:42:44.960 --> 1:42:50.120 gonna sit down and watch the college football National Championship Game. Yeah, 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:54.439 I think about it a lot. Um. I I feel 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:58.559 that ESPN has put me You talked earlier when you 1:42:58.560 --> 1:43:01.040 introduced me is kind of the face of the sport, 1:43:01.240 --> 1:43:04.479 voice of the sport. And I don't sit, you know, 1:43:04.520 --> 1:43:08.720 walk around and like to announce that or like to 1:43:08.800 --> 1:43:11.120 think that or anything like that. But the reality is 1:43:11.160 --> 1:43:13.559 because of the role that ESPN has put me in. 1:43:14.160 --> 1:43:17.200 I mean, they put me into the Saturday night window 1:43:17.840 --> 1:43:21.519 back in two thousand and six, and I started calling 1:43:21.560 --> 1:43:24.360 games on on ABC and started to do their their 1:43:24.360 --> 1:43:27.880 biggest bowl games. Um, I've called more Rose Bowls as 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:31.280 an analyst than anybody and called more of these championships 1:43:31.280 --> 1:43:34.400 than anybody. And so you know, I as much as 1:43:34.439 --> 1:43:39.160 I looked at and I'm never gonna ever compare myself 1:43:39.240 --> 1:43:42.280 to a guy like al Michaels or Keith Jackson. But 1:43:42.640 --> 1:43:45.840 for generation of fans, like they're going to hear my 1:43:46.040 --> 1:43:51.360 voice on a lot of these bigger games, and that's 1:43:51.400 --> 1:43:56.080 something that I'm proud of. That's something that I definitely 1:43:56.640 --> 1:44:00.280 think about. That's something that when fans come up to 1:44:00.320 --> 1:44:05.120 me and want to talk, uh, I'm keenly aware of 1:44:05.200 --> 1:44:09.040 giving them a good moment. Like I don't want to 1:44:09.080 --> 1:44:13.519 ever be a guy I probably to a fault when 1:44:13.520 --> 1:44:16.640 it comes to college football fans and will stay disorderly 1:44:17.439 --> 1:44:20.400 I want to give everybody I come in contact with 1:44:21.200 --> 1:44:25.639 um a good memory, because I feel like I feel 1:44:25.680 --> 1:44:28.519 like that's part of my role, you know, as to 1:44:28.600 --> 1:44:32.120 be like the ambassador of college football. I try. I 1:44:32.160 --> 1:44:34.639 try to be the voice of reason of it anyway, 1:44:34.840 --> 1:44:38.960 you know. And um I, when I call a game, 1:44:39.920 --> 1:44:44.360 I could very easily call the game so just coaches 1:44:44.800 --> 1:44:49.759 and players could understand the game. But I intentionally called 1:44:49.840 --> 1:44:54.080 the game so that eight year old grandma you're talking about, 1:44:54.200 --> 1:44:56.040 or that six or seven or eight year old it's 1:44:56.080 --> 1:45:00.320 watching it. I try to paint a picture and try 1:45:00.360 --> 1:45:03.680 to describe the action. Because Mike Terrico, when I first 1:45:03.720 --> 1:45:08.160 started to do games with Mike on Thursday nights, I 1:45:08.320 --> 1:45:10.799 never really called a game in my life. He said, 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:15.400 I'm going to do the job of telling what is happening. 1:45:16.040 --> 1:45:18.880 If you can just focus on this for me, tell 1:45:18.920 --> 1:45:23.800 me how or tell me why it's happening. That's that's 1:45:23.840 --> 1:45:26.439 the only lane I want you to stay in. And 1:45:26.479 --> 1:45:29.320 that was back in I think it was the first 1:45:29.400 --> 1:45:32.880 year did he and I in Courso were calling games, 1:45:33.200 --> 1:45:36.320 and I'll never forget him telling me that. To this day, 1:45:36.640 --> 1:45:39.360 I try to give you the how or the why 1:45:39.840 --> 1:45:41.439 when I'm calling the game, and I try to do 1:45:41.479 --> 1:45:44.320 it in a way that play you or your wife 1:45:44.360 --> 1:45:49.800 or your kids or whoever can can understand it. And 1:45:50.600 --> 1:45:54.240 that's that's kind of my role. That's my job, and 1:45:54.439 --> 1:45:56.880 you don't want to dump it down. So it's like elementary. 1:45:57.080 --> 1:45:59.240 But you also, you know, I've got a chance to 1:45:59.560 --> 1:46:02.080 draw things. They try to help people the way I 1:46:02.200 --> 1:46:05.679 describe something. You'll very rarely hear me say a football 1:46:05.800 --> 1:46:09.400 term without supporting it with what I mean by saying 1:46:09.439 --> 1:46:13.240 that football term. So yeah, I think about what you're 1:46:13.280 --> 1:46:17.800 asking all the time, and I think that it's you know, 1:46:17.880 --> 1:46:21.160 it's it's something that I definitely take very seriously. And 1:46:21.160 --> 1:46:24.040 and again I want to again point out it's not 1:46:24.120 --> 1:46:28.760 as if I'm putting myself into that stratosphere of of 1:46:28.840 --> 1:46:33.000 college football announcers. I just feel that ESPN because of 1:46:33.040 --> 1:46:35.760 the role that they put me in, you know, game 1:46:35.840 --> 1:46:39.960 day for it's year on game day calling the games. 1:46:40.080 --> 1:46:42.640 You know, before with Brent on that big window on 1:46:42.680 --> 1:46:45.040 Saturday night and now with Fouler and that same window, 1:46:45.840 --> 1:46:48.760 doing all these postseason games. You know, we do the 1:46:48.760 --> 1:46:51.640 the bigger playoff, the playoff game, we do, uh, the 1:46:51.760 --> 1:46:55.320 national championship, and you do that year after year after 1:46:55.439 --> 1:46:58.400 year after year. You know, you're like you say, you're voicing. 1:46:58.439 --> 1:47:02.040 Your face becomes synonymous with with the bigger games, and 1:47:02.080 --> 1:47:04.439 so I think it has as much to do with 1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:07.160 the roles that ESPN has put me in as much 1:47:07.200 --> 1:47:13.200 as anything. It's definitely something that I've seen. UM proud 1:47:13.280 --> 1:47:15.120 to be in the position that I'm in, and it's 1:47:15.160 --> 1:47:18.599 something that I definitely think about and UH and take 1:47:18.760 --> 1:47:21.960 great sense applied of trying to be that person for 1:47:21.960 --> 1:47:25.240 for fans. Be sure to catch live editions of out 1:47:25.320 --> 1:47:27.960 Kicked the Coverage with Clay Travis week days at six 1:47:28.000 --> 1:47:32.519 am Eastern, three am Pacific. The last couple of questions 1:47:32.520 --> 1:47:34.320 for you here and again, I'm Clay Travis. This is 1:47:34.320 --> 1:47:37.000 Wins and Losses with Kirk herb Street. One of the 1:47:37.120 --> 1:47:39.240 challenges you talk about the good things at college football, 1:47:39.240 --> 1:47:43.479 it's the passion you moved from Columbus down to Nashville. UH. 1:47:43.760 --> 1:47:46.799 One part of that is because in Columbus, obviously everything 1:47:46.880 --> 1:47:50.240 is Ohio State. You and your family have incredible connections 1:47:50.240 --> 1:47:53.479 to Ohio State. You you fought it out, became a 1:47:53.520 --> 1:47:57.320 Buckeye starting quarterback. I mean, all the different aspects of 1:47:57.520 --> 1:48:01.519 your career associated with Ohio State. Why did you feel 1:48:01.560 --> 1:48:04.080 the need to move to Nashville And how are you 1:48:04.200 --> 1:48:07.920 treated now? Because I'm curious. You're a twenty six year 1:48:07.920 --> 1:48:12.120 old kid and people may know you vaguely, but obviously 1:48:12.120 --> 1:48:15.759 as game day has exploded, your sort of public persona 1:48:15.840 --> 1:48:19.160 has exploded exploded to how much of a regular life 1:48:19.240 --> 1:48:25.479 are you able to have? Uh? Yeah, it's it's when 1:48:25.479 --> 1:48:27.439 you go back to the era when we moved. It 1:48:27.600 --> 1:48:32.320 was just when um, you know, I don't even know 1:48:32.320 --> 1:48:34.880 if Twitter just really started back then, but it was 1:48:34.920 --> 1:48:37.599 just starting to become a little bit louder, you know 1:48:37.640 --> 1:48:40.160 that the feedback was becoming a little bit louder, and 1:48:40.920 --> 1:48:44.800 people's opinions and people could reach almost touch you with 1:48:44.800 --> 1:48:47.439 with how they felt about you. It was a little 1:48:47.479 --> 1:48:50.400 bit more transparent, a little bit more in your face. 1:48:51.400 --> 1:48:54.639 And I have nothing but great things to say about 1:48:54.640 --> 1:48:58.160 Ohio State and their fans. You know, I think that 1:48:58.720 --> 1:49:02.320 like all fans, you know, Tennessee has them, Alabama l 1:49:02.439 --> 1:49:06.760 s u Any Rabbit Sand bas has and everybody. The 1:49:06.800 --> 1:49:09.919 fans of of these schools are embarrassed of that radical 1:49:10.600 --> 1:49:15.040 three or four percent. There's just unreasonable and crazy. Yeah, 1:49:15.200 --> 1:49:19.960 and when when you have them and you're living with 1:49:20.000 --> 1:49:23.639 a young family. You know, nineties seven percent of higher 1:49:23.680 --> 1:49:27.759 state fans, I think her obviously great people and great 1:49:27.760 --> 1:49:32.320 fans of passionate fans. Those three percentersn't have to kind 1:49:32.320 --> 1:49:34.960 of make you take a step back and and wonder. 1:49:35.000 --> 1:49:37.479 I mean, you watched the news today and it didn't 1:49:37.479 --> 1:49:40.519 take a whole lot since fit people over the head. 1:49:41.280 --> 1:49:42.920 And so the fact that it was I was so 1:49:43.120 --> 1:49:47.240 visible right in the middle of of a suburb in Columbus, 1:49:47.560 --> 1:49:50.360 people pretty obviously would know when I'm home and when 1:49:50.360 --> 1:49:54.519 I'm away. Um, we thought, my wife and I both 1:49:54.520 --> 1:49:57.960 thought about possibility of even though we both love Columbus, 1:49:58.080 --> 1:50:01.439 is possibly one day move being away and trying to 1:50:01.439 --> 1:50:04.439 get a little bit more trivacy or just peace of mind. 1:50:04.479 --> 1:50:07.840 And we decided on Nashville, which ended up being a 1:50:08.200 --> 1:50:10.080 you know, a great move in a great city. You 1:50:10.120 --> 1:50:12.719 know very well. We didn't know a whole lot about 1:50:12.760 --> 1:50:15.880 it until we moved here, and we actually thought of 1:50:15.920 --> 1:50:18.640 moving to Austin because of my travels, That's one of 1:50:18.680 --> 1:50:20.720 the towns that had really had stood out to me. 1:50:21.400 --> 1:50:25.080 And after we went down and back to Columbus. We 1:50:25.160 --> 1:50:28.479 stopped in Nashville and looked around and and just couldn't 1:50:28.520 --> 1:50:32.360 believe in we kind of a school there that that 1:50:32.360 --> 1:50:34.519 that we ended up sending our boys too. But when 1:50:34.520 --> 1:50:37.280 I walked through the school, I remember vividly now the 1:50:37.320 --> 1:50:40.320 sixth grade, which is the oldest class, down the last 1:50:40.360 --> 1:50:44.880 wing in this hallway, this hallway, and reading there their 1:50:44.920 --> 1:50:47.559 mission statements to each of the individuals had written that 1:50:47.640 --> 1:50:50.920 particular year in sixth grade and read one, two, three, 1:50:51.000 --> 1:50:52.880 the fourth, the fifth, the sixth, and I kind of 1:50:52.920 --> 1:50:54.599 turned over the guy that was taking us on our 1:50:54.640 --> 1:50:56.640 tour and I was like that their parents, you know, 1:50:56.800 --> 1:50:59.599 right right these forum and They're like, no, that they 1:50:59.600 --> 1:51:02.080 wrote him. And I'm like, wow, it's just blown away 1:51:02.160 --> 1:51:05.599 by or the things that they were saying. And so 1:51:05.640 --> 1:51:08.160 I kind of walked out of that well meeting me 1:51:08.400 --> 1:51:11.200 heap a hold my life. I said, Man, I don't 1:51:11.200 --> 1:51:13.160 know about you, but I want my kids to go 1:51:13.200 --> 1:51:14.880 to this school. I don't even know where we're gonna live, 1:51:14.960 --> 1:51:17.760 but I wanted to go to this school. And so 1:51:17.840 --> 1:51:21.759 that that walking through that school really changed our decision 1:51:22.000 --> 1:51:26.120 to be instead of thinking about it, like let's do it, 1:51:26.600 --> 1:51:28.799 and we sent our kids to that school and we 1:51:28.960 --> 1:51:31.479 ended up moving down and thinks we've been down here 1:51:31.479 --> 1:51:34.479 now eight years, which is incredible to think. Um, My, 1:51:34.479 --> 1:51:37.160 my order boys were in fourth grade, we moved here 1:51:37.160 --> 1:51:41.360 and now they're freshman in college and so um, things 1:51:41.400 --> 1:51:44.439 have been great. It's it's definitely a different way of 1:51:44.520 --> 1:51:47.960 living compared to where we're from, as far as the 1:51:48.000 --> 1:51:52.840 schools and not. You know, people listening, we won't understand this, 1:51:52.880 --> 1:51:55.920 but we're not used to play the way they divide 1:51:55.960 --> 1:51:58.400 things up by if hear in Williamson County you know, 1:51:58.479 --> 1:52:01.720 da da da dada. In Davidson County you need to 1:52:01.760 --> 1:52:04.559 go to that. And we were like, we just were 1:52:04.640 --> 1:52:07.639 used to whatever suburb you lived in. You know, that's 1:52:07.640 --> 1:52:09.960 where you kind of went to elementary school, middle school, 1:52:10.040 --> 1:52:12.360 high school. So we've had to adjust a little bit 1:52:13.040 --> 1:52:16.599 to learning all that and there's so many different choices. 1:52:16.680 --> 1:52:20.400 It's you know, down here to go to school. But overall, 1:52:20.439 --> 1:52:23.479 you know from living down here, people are incredibly cool 1:52:23.520 --> 1:52:25.960 and gracious. And again I don't want to make it 1:52:25.960 --> 1:52:29.400 sound like people in Ohio and Columbus are not. Um, 1:52:29.439 --> 1:52:32.000 it's just when you play football Ohio State and you 1:52:32.080 --> 1:52:35.640 go on TV and you have to be fair and objective. 1:52:36.160 --> 1:52:38.679 I think the maturity of people really appreciate that because 1:52:38.720 --> 1:52:40.600 they know when they listen to you, they're always going 1:52:40.680 --> 1:52:44.200 to get how you really feel. Um And again, I 1:52:44.240 --> 1:52:47.960 think it's just for that that that radical group that's 1:52:48.040 --> 1:52:51.559 that's out there, that for us was just enough to 1:52:51.560 --> 1:52:53.840 to maybe maybe it's a good time with a young 1:52:53.880 --> 1:52:56.640 family to to uh set up camp somewhere else for 1:52:56.680 --> 1:52:59.840 the time being. And and we've enjoyed. It's a great town. 1:52:59.840 --> 1:53:03.840 And we didn't realize, man we moved here, Nashville would 1:53:03.840 --> 1:53:07.599 grow and become this quote unquote it's city, because literally 1:53:07.600 --> 1:53:11.559 a year or two after we moved here, that show 1:53:11.680 --> 1:53:16.920 Nashville came out, and the growth of this city has 1:53:17.000 --> 1:53:20.759 just exploded. And it's almost like living in a different 1:53:20.760 --> 1:53:22.800 city in just the eight years we've been here. I 1:53:22.800 --> 1:53:24.840 can't imagine what it's like for you and for others 1:53:24.840 --> 1:53:27.280 that have been here for a long time but still 1:53:28.280 --> 1:53:32.240 just very fond of it and just appreciated our time here. 1:53:32.280 --> 1:53:36.160 For sure. This is I think maybe the most difficult 1:53:36.160 --> 1:53:38.880 thing you do in general. You know all of these 1:53:38.920 --> 1:53:42.040 coaches very well, especially over the years. You get to 1:53:42.040 --> 1:53:43.720 know them and you talked about how you'll talk about 1:53:43.800 --> 1:53:46.080 things other than football. You know a lot of the 1:53:46.120 --> 1:53:50.559 players very well. When there are difficult stories surrounding the 1:53:50.600 --> 1:53:54.120 coaches or the players, how do you deal with the 1:53:54.200 --> 1:53:57.840 private person that you know and their public persona which 1:53:57.920 --> 1:53:59.680 may be very much different. And the reason why I 1:53:59.680 --> 1:54:02.640 asked it is as as I have moved into the 1:54:02.920 --> 1:54:05.880 arena where I make the living that I do. I 1:54:05.960 --> 1:54:08.600 like to judge people based on face to face interactions, 1:54:08.640 --> 1:54:10.360 and a lot of time you get the opportunity to 1:54:10.400 --> 1:54:12.960 do that, and that's very good. But the public is 1:54:13.040 --> 1:54:16.840 judging people on their public perception, and sometimes there can 1:54:16.840 --> 1:54:19.720 be a mountain range of difference between what someone is 1:54:19.760 --> 1:54:22.680 like in your experience and what their public persona is. Like, 1:54:23.120 --> 1:54:26.720 how do you handle stories like those where you're required 1:54:26.760 --> 1:54:29.520 to talk about somebody that you know, may know well personally, 1:54:30.000 --> 1:54:33.240 but publicly that situation is difficult, right, especially in these 1:54:33.240 --> 1:54:36.400 fraught times where it's almost like if you defend somebody 1:54:36.440 --> 1:54:42.240 who's in a tough spot, then suddenly you're stained by them, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:54:42.440 --> 1:54:46.480 that's tough, And you're right. You get to know these 1:54:46.520 --> 1:54:49.880 guys on a personal level, and then you know whether 1:54:49.920 --> 1:54:53.600 they get caught up in something or you know, they're 1:54:53.640 --> 1:54:56.960 they're being judged on wins and losses or whatever it 1:54:57.040 --> 1:54:59.600 might be. And now you've got to go on TV 1:55:00.000 --> 1:55:02.400 and say they don't deserve to have their job anymore 1:55:02.480 --> 1:55:04.200 or something like that, and you're gonna have you know, 1:55:04.240 --> 1:55:06.880 that's going to be an incredibly influential perspective to take. 1:55:06.960 --> 1:55:09.240 And it's more difficult when you know that person than 1:55:09.240 --> 1:55:12.800 it is if you don't. Yeah, I guess that my 1:55:13.680 --> 1:55:17.839 of coping with this because at espn UM you probably 1:55:18.000 --> 1:55:21.000 have noticed in the last three or four years you 1:55:21.120 --> 1:55:26.840 watch almost any analysts on TV that they're really encouraging 1:55:27.280 --> 1:55:35.480 analysts to have really strong opinions. Yes they're calling it 1:55:35.560 --> 1:55:37.880 cutting true and and they want you to be out 1:55:37.960 --> 1:55:41.600 there and you know, kind of take a stance, and uh, 1:55:41.800 --> 1:55:45.360 they're rewarding for rewarding people who are willing to go 1:55:45.440 --> 1:55:48.400 out there and not be afraid to say things. You know. 1:55:48.560 --> 1:55:54.240 And I guess in my case, from doing this for 1:55:54.280 --> 1:55:57.120 so long and going back to my role as I 1:55:57.280 --> 1:55:59.600 like I said, I try to be in my mind, 1:56:00.160 --> 1:56:03.520 there's so much a violatility on this side and there's 1:56:03.560 --> 1:56:07.040 so much volatility over there on that side. Did I 1:56:07.080 --> 1:56:10.600 try to be a guy that's trying to which is 1:56:10.600 --> 1:56:13.360 hard to do in today's society, whether sports or politics. 1:56:14.040 --> 1:56:19.720 I try my best to be strong with my thoughts, 1:56:19.760 --> 1:56:24.160 but also to try to be UM. If the person 1:56:24.240 --> 1:56:27.040 I'm talking about, we're sitting on the desk, That's the 1:56:27.080 --> 1:56:29.960 way I always think about it. They may not like 1:56:30.240 --> 1:56:32.840 what I have to say, but they're not going to 1:56:32.920 --> 1:56:37.600 feel disrespected. And the way I said does that make sense? 1:56:38.560 --> 1:56:41.720 You know? So if Urban Myers and the Crosshairs, whoever 1:56:41.760 --> 1:56:44.720 it is, you know, Jim Trustle who they may not 1:56:44.840 --> 1:56:47.240 agree or like what I have to say. You know, 1:56:47.360 --> 1:56:51.080 Urban Meyer was caught up in that stuff UM last 1:56:51.120 --> 1:56:53.840 summer and I go on it seems like every week 1:56:53.880 --> 1:56:56.440 we go on the air and talk about it, and 1:56:57.200 --> 1:57:00.560 I again, I would. I would, in my mind envision 1:57:00.680 --> 1:57:05.160 Urban sitting on our desk, and I would talk as 1:57:05.200 --> 1:57:08.800 if he were sitting there, and he might look at 1:57:08.840 --> 1:57:12.120 me and not not like what I was saying, but 1:57:12.280 --> 1:57:15.960 he would he would. It's when emotions kind of settled 1:57:16.000 --> 1:57:18.400 for him. He would look back at it and at 1:57:18.480 --> 1:57:22.280 least understand what I was saying and not feel that 1:57:22.400 --> 1:57:25.200 he was being attacked or it was personal. I think 1:57:25.280 --> 1:57:29.040 sometimes in our business because people are trying to steal 1:57:29.120 --> 1:57:33.120 the moment or they're trying to capitalize on an opportunity 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:38.040 for them personally. You know, they love to kind of 1:57:38.040 --> 1:57:41.000 like just go crazy, you know, and you see that 1:57:41.120 --> 1:57:43.000 every like if you and I turn on our TVs 1:57:43.080 --> 1:57:45.720 right now, someone's going crazy on something, you know, like 1:57:45.760 --> 1:57:49.960 that's that's what everybody does. And I always feel like, 1:57:51.320 --> 1:57:54.879 you know, I'll go crazy if it's a kid that's 1:57:54.920 --> 1:57:58.320 like being more about himself than the team, or a 1:57:58.360 --> 1:58:02.560 guy that's that's that's show voting and disrespecting somebody like, 1:58:02.600 --> 1:58:06.880 that'll get me worked up pretty quickly. But when guys 1:58:06.920 --> 1:58:09.880 gets guys get in some trouble, I try to be, 1:58:10.080 --> 1:58:13.560 like I said, a guy that's going to be strong, 1:58:13.840 --> 1:58:17.000 but at the same time fair uh as much as 1:58:17.040 --> 1:58:19.840 you can and and not dance on their grave or 1:58:19.880 --> 1:58:23.600 try to try to take advantage of of the you know, 1:58:23.840 --> 1:58:26.840 a counch of sarkas of over the top kind of 1:58:27.000 --> 1:58:29.160 kind of stuff. Did a lot of guys do who 1:58:29.160 --> 1:58:31.760 do you think the coaches that you've worked with and 1:58:31.800 --> 1:58:34.760 that have coached over the years would be great on 1:58:34.800 --> 1:58:36.880 the game day desk if they were willing to do 1:58:36.920 --> 1:58:39.720 it because there's a lot of guys like Urban is 1:58:39.720 --> 1:58:42.120 gonna be on the Fox College Show right, Like, so far, 1:58:42.280 --> 1:58:45.240 it doesn't seem to me like Urban has leaned into 1:58:45.280 --> 1:58:47.560 the idea that he's a TV guy. Right. You talked 1:58:47.560 --> 1:58:49.839 about the difference between a coach and a TV guy. 1:58:50.040 --> 1:58:52.720 You'd have to lean into the idea of I'm willing 1:58:52.760 --> 1:58:55.480 to be a TV guy like Lee Corso has great coach. 1:58:55.760 --> 1:58:58.120 But you said it best. He said, I'm an entertainer, right, 1:58:58.160 --> 1:58:59.840 Like we're in the entertainment business. I'm not in the 1:58:59.840 --> 1:59:03.120 coaching business anymore. Who would be willing in your experience 1:59:03.160 --> 1:59:05.560 to lean into it? Who could be great at at 1:59:05.600 --> 1:59:11.360 your business? That's a tough thing. I I have talked openly, 1:59:12.320 --> 1:59:16.320 I should say privately openly with with coach Saban about 1:59:17.040 --> 1:59:20.880 doing it, and I think he would be I think 1:59:20.920 --> 1:59:23.400 he would be a superstar. He's almost like, yeah, Hutton 1:59:23.520 --> 1:59:25.880 like he he speaks so softly when he's on the 1:59:25.920 --> 1:59:28.200 desk with us, you know, because he'll he'll come on 1:59:28.280 --> 1:59:30.600 a lot, whether it's when we do game day in Tuscaloosa, 1:59:30.680 --> 1:59:33.360 he'll come on with us in the morning or obviously 1:59:33.480 --> 1:59:35.960 is his team the rare moment they don't make the playoffs, 1:59:35.960 --> 1:59:38.840 he'll be are one of our guests analysts, you know 1:59:38.880 --> 1:59:42.320 that we'll have at the championship game and just you 1:59:42.360 --> 1:59:45.200 know what he's talking. He's talking so softly, yet you're 1:59:45.240 --> 1:59:47.080 like leaning into him because you don't want to miss 1:59:47.080 --> 1:59:49.960 anything that he's saying, because he just he's like Yoda. 1:59:50.080 --> 1:59:51.840 You know, He's got so much to say that you 1:59:51.920 --> 1:59:53.880 just want to like write everything down that he says. 1:59:54.600 --> 1:59:58.120 And I think he I think that the energy of 1:59:58.160 --> 2:00:02.320 that show w bring out aside to him, that would 2:00:02.360 --> 2:00:04.640 be a lot of fun um. Not that he's ever 2:00:04.680 --> 2:00:06.600 going to try to one day, you know, try to 2:00:06.640 --> 2:00:09.640 be a leak corso, but I think I think because 2:00:09.640 --> 2:00:12.920 of his knowledge, he would do it. Do you think 2:00:12.920 --> 2:00:15.920 he would do it? When I do? I do. I 2:00:15.960 --> 2:00:18.720 think he's still you know, I just got the hip done, 2:00:18.760 --> 2:00:23.280 and I think he's still feeling like especially after the 2:00:23.320 --> 2:00:26.360 way last year ended, I still think he thinks he's 2:00:26.400 --> 2:00:29.200 got so much left at him that I don't think 2:00:29.240 --> 2:00:33.480 he's he's thought about it, like, let's do it. But 2:00:33.520 --> 2:00:36.920 every time he gets done being a guest analyst with us, 2:00:36.960 --> 2:00:39.920 he always comes over to me, Hey, Hey, what what 2:00:40.080 --> 2:00:42.720 what how do you say, how do you think that win? Bo? 2:00:43.200 --> 2:00:45.520 How was my fan? Coach? You're doing great? I mean, 2:00:45.560 --> 2:00:47.840 I'm telling you, this is your thing. He's like, I 2:00:49.080 --> 2:00:51.400 had some fun that I had a good time, you know. 2:00:51.440 --> 2:00:55.480 So I when he I think when he's done, I 2:00:55.480 --> 2:00:58.840 think we could definitely talk him into joining us. I 2:00:58.960 --> 2:01:03.120 really do, because I say what he'll find is this 2:01:03.320 --> 2:01:07.280 keeps you involved enough for especially the game day. You're 2:01:07.280 --> 2:01:10.080 going out to the games and you know you're you're 2:01:09.880 --> 2:01:13.720 you're around the crowd, you're feeling that energy. Um, it's 2:01:13.760 --> 2:01:17.360 not obviously nothing close to wearing his white half zip 2:01:17.480 --> 2:01:20.400 and jogging out in the field with with the Crimson Tide. 2:01:20.880 --> 2:01:24.120 But when when he closes that chapter, and I don't 2:01:24.240 --> 2:01:25.960 I don't want to portray as if he's in a 2:01:26.040 --> 2:01:29.920 hurry to close that because I think he's feeling like 2:01:30.000 --> 2:01:32.080 he's got a lot, a lot to do, and I 2:01:32.120 --> 2:01:35.040 know he wants to advantage last year's lost to Clemson. 2:01:35.280 --> 2:01:37.640 But I think he's I would guess he's got another 2:01:38.000 --> 2:01:40.400 I don't know, four or five years in him would 2:01:40.400 --> 2:01:43.560 be my guests minimum. Um, But when he whatever that 2:01:43.720 --> 2:01:46.160 is that he's done, he would be the first guy 2:01:46.600 --> 2:01:51.120 who's currently coaching that I think could be really really good. 2:01:51.720 --> 2:01:54.320 Um at joining us on the set and being in TV. 2:01:55.840 --> 2:01:57.920 You're gonna be calling some point, I don't know. You 2:01:57.920 --> 2:01:59.680 may already have your schedule. I'm not sure if it's 2:01:59.680 --> 2:02:03.600 out at a Clemson game. Your sons will be freshman 2:02:04.200 --> 2:02:07.080 on the Clemson football team. This is something that you 2:02:07.160 --> 2:02:09.800 may have thought of at some point might arise. You know, 2:02:09.960 --> 2:02:12.400 as you were calling games over the years, have you 2:02:12.480 --> 2:02:14.960 thought about what that will feel like? Uh? You know, 2:02:15.000 --> 2:02:18.400 I guess if you think back, Greasy, you know, called 2:02:18.480 --> 2:02:22.160 games alongside of Keith Jackson that his son was involved in. 2:02:22.640 --> 2:02:24.920 I can't even imagine how hard that is to do. 2:02:25.480 --> 2:02:28.200 You talked about just watching them play. Have you thought 2:02:28.200 --> 2:02:31.080 about what that feeling will be like to look out 2:02:31.120 --> 2:02:34.240 onto the field as your own kids run out as 2:02:34.240 --> 2:02:38.440 a member of a college football team. I have not. 2:02:38.880 --> 2:02:46.960 I have not. I'll just say this, um my kids. 2:02:46.800 --> 2:02:49.840 The fact that they have an opportunity that they went 2:02:49.880 --> 2:02:54.520 to Clemson's football camp last summer and did well enough 2:02:54.800 --> 2:02:58.520 to kind of raise uh Dabo and some of the 2:02:58.680 --> 2:03:02.000 staffs eyebrows and to call me and say, you know, 2:03:02.120 --> 2:03:04.440 we we we we might want to talk to you 2:03:04.480 --> 2:03:09.320 about having these guys come on and has preferred walk ons, 2:03:09.960 --> 2:03:11.960 And I had no idea really what that meant until 2:03:12.040 --> 2:03:15.120 we visited with him and started to talk more about it. 2:03:15.760 --> 2:03:20.800 And I'll be honest with you, man, They're probably very 2:03:20.920 --> 2:03:27.960 few programs and coaches that I would feel comfortable with 2:03:28.680 --> 2:03:32.160 and sending my my own boys to go play in 2:03:32.320 --> 2:03:34.880 that role, whether or not a five star or four 2:03:34.960 --> 2:03:39.040 star or whatever, they're going as preferred walk ons, And 2:03:41.000 --> 2:03:44.360 it's it's I'm not picking favorites. I'm not picking sides. 2:03:44.640 --> 2:03:49.280 I'm just telling you what I see and I really 2:03:49.320 --> 2:03:51.880 believe from the bottom of my heart, the whether you're 2:03:52.000 --> 2:03:57.280 Trevor Lawrence or my twins or anybody in between, you're 2:03:57.320 --> 2:04:01.200 going to be treated based on are you going to class, 2:04:02.000 --> 2:04:05.280 are you trying hard, are you understand your assignments, are 2:04:05.280 --> 2:04:08.200 you showing up to meetings on time? Are you treating 2:04:08.200 --> 2:04:11.240 the trainer as well? Are you treating people with respect? 2:04:11.920 --> 2:04:16.080 Like so like football for me was with my twins. 2:04:16.520 --> 2:04:20.200 I'm not saying it's it doesn't matter, of course it matters, 2:04:20.240 --> 2:04:24.160 but as a dad with with two freshmen that are 2:04:24.760 --> 2:04:26.680 he's going a red shirt this year and then spent 2:04:26.760 --> 2:04:30.400 another four years with Dabo and his guys, his staff 2:04:30.440 --> 2:04:36.520 pouring into them like that. That to me, is is incredible. 2:04:36.760 --> 2:04:40.360 And when when when they talk to me about wanting 2:04:40.400 --> 2:04:45.120 to do that, Like I said that, that's one of 2:04:45.120 --> 2:04:47.560 the few schools I would let him go. And I 2:04:47.600 --> 2:04:52.080 think the fact da Will lived himself at Alabama, I 2:04:52.120 --> 2:04:55.480 think probably has a lot to do with why he 2:04:55.640 --> 2:04:59.120 runs his program and why he treats the players all 2:04:59.280 --> 2:05:02.280 exactly the And it's one thing to say that, it's 2:05:02.320 --> 2:05:06.840 another thing to actually do it. And and you know, 2:05:07.000 --> 2:05:08.720 my kids have been there, like I said, about a 2:05:08.760 --> 2:05:12.040 month now, and the coaches have not been able to 2:05:12.080 --> 2:05:15.040 be there. They're on their on their summer vacations and 2:05:15.080 --> 2:05:17.800 with their families, and I think my boys will come 2:05:17.800 --> 2:05:21.240 home this weekend and then then they'll go back and 2:05:21.240 --> 2:05:24.680 they're actually taking summer classes all the freshmen do, and 2:05:24.720 --> 2:05:28.400 then they'll get going um like July one, and then 2:05:28.400 --> 2:05:31.080 they'll start being with their position coaches and all that. 2:05:31.280 --> 2:05:33.760 But up to this point, you know, they've never called, 2:05:34.720 --> 2:05:38.440 you know, we we extend and said anything, but everything 2:05:38.440 --> 2:05:40.560 has just been positive about the way the players have 2:05:40.600 --> 2:05:43.320 treated them. And I'm not surprised. I just bring that 2:05:43.400 --> 2:05:47.040 up because um, people have said, why are they a Clemson, 2:05:47.040 --> 2:05:48.960 why are they not at Ohio State? Or why did 2:05:49.040 --> 2:05:51.880 I at this place? I think it has more to 2:05:51.920 --> 2:05:54.680 do with just Clemson have to be a school that 2:05:55.480 --> 2:05:59.560 presented them with this opportunity, and then me knowing what 2:05:59.640 --> 2:06:02.000 I know about about that program, it was more of 2:06:02.080 --> 2:06:06.520 me just kind of being very appreciative and excited for 2:06:06.560 --> 2:06:09.360 them to have the opportunity as far as calling the games, 2:06:09.400 --> 2:06:13.240 and it won't even cross my mind, um that they're 2:06:13.240 --> 2:06:16.600 out there, you know, part of that team as red 2:06:16.600 --> 2:06:19.960 Shirts still dress for every home game. Ironically, Game Day 2:06:20.240 --> 2:06:22.440 is doing a kickoff to the A c C Network 2:06:22.480 --> 2:06:26.360 into the season, starting uh in Death Valley for Georgia 2:06:26.440 --> 2:06:29.400 Tech that Thursday night game that they opened the season with. 2:06:29.600 --> 2:06:33.360 I think it's on. I want to say that August one. 2:06:35.680 --> 2:06:41.760 Think it would be because Florida Miami if I'm not mistaken, right, Yeah, 2:06:41.880 --> 2:06:43.800 doing that and then the twenty Nights will be there, 2:06:44.160 --> 2:06:47.160 so they'll be there and be great to see them, um, 2:06:47.200 --> 2:06:49.960 you know, being a part of that program. But as 2:06:50.000 --> 2:06:53.200 far as you know doing with c D if that 2:06:53.320 --> 2:06:55.560 ever comes to fruition and I have to worry about 2:06:56.080 --> 2:06:57.640 one of them the receiver, and one of them is 2:06:57.680 --> 2:06:59.880 a dB. You know, if they're ever out there and 2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:02.919 I'm calling the game, that will be a great problem 2:07:03.000 --> 2:07:06.400 for me to have to overcome if it ever comes 2:07:06.440 --> 2:07:09.640 to that. But for now, man, I'm just just so 2:07:09.960 --> 2:07:13.400 proud and excited that they are a part of of 2:07:13.480 --> 2:07:16.120 that program and look forward to seeing how much they 2:07:16.160 --> 2:07:19.400 grow and change and develops young men. Just being a 2:07:19.440 --> 2:07:21.840 part of that, been around Dabbo and that staff. What 2:07:21.880 --> 2:07:25.480 do it feel like to drop him off? For me? 2:07:25.560 --> 2:07:31.280 It's very hard. My wife still, I think, is managing it. 2:07:31.400 --> 2:07:33.320 I think the fact that we get them home this 2:07:33.400 --> 2:07:36.720 weekend for a couple of days. Uh, there's two more 2:07:36.800 --> 2:07:40.000 days that they have off in August. Well, there's like 2:07:40.000 --> 2:07:42.440 a weekend I want to say eighteens somewhere around there 2:07:42.440 --> 2:07:46.160 that they're allowed to come home. It hasn't quite hit 2:07:46.240 --> 2:07:50.400 me like it's for real, for real until maybe those 2:07:50.440 --> 2:07:53.040 two trips are over because she's going to get to 2:07:53.040 --> 2:07:55.920 go to all the home games go see him. Of course, 2:07:55.960 --> 2:07:58.840 I unless we unless we do a Clemson home game, 2:07:58.880 --> 2:08:01.880 I will not. Um. It's hard, man. We were a 2:08:03.000 --> 2:08:05.880 we're parents that live and breathe in the front row 2:08:06.000 --> 2:08:10.080 like we we're just hands on, you know, just plus 2:08:10.160 --> 2:08:12.640 to be in that position. And so you know, when 2:08:12.680 --> 2:08:14.720 you take two out of your fool or out at 2:08:14.720 --> 2:08:17.480 one time. The hard part is when you go upstairs 2:08:17.480 --> 2:08:20.440 and you go down the hallway where there's usually usually 2:08:20.480 --> 2:08:22.120 four of them and now there's just two, and you 2:08:22.120 --> 2:08:25.760 open up their door and like their bed is still 2:08:25.920 --> 2:08:29.000 perfectly made, like nothing's happened in their room, you know. 2:08:29.160 --> 2:08:32.680 So that part's kind of eerie to see both their 2:08:32.760 --> 2:08:37.440 rooms just completely clean, and which is never the case 2:08:37.480 --> 2:08:41.400 when they live here. And uh, you know, but it's 2:08:41.440 --> 2:08:44.240 part of life. And like I said, it's the fact 2:08:44.280 --> 2:08:47.800 that they're on this journey and where they are, uh, 2:08:47.840 --> 2:08:50.680 that that gives you peace of mind and kind of 2:08:50.680 --> 2:08:54.000 gets excited about what they're what they're part of, and 2:08:54.040 --> 2:08:56.400 what they're about to face, you know, for these next 2:08:56.440 --> 2:08:58.680 five years. But it's hard, man, It's hard to let 2:08:58.720 --> 2:09:02.720 go when you when you when you're heavily involved. As 2:09:02.400 --> 2:09:05.200 you know, some parents out there can can relate. It's 2:09:05.680 --> 2:09:09.320 it's weird too all of a sudden let two of 2:09:09.360 --> 2:09:12.360 them go and and uh, now they're not at the house. 2:09:12.600 --> 2:09:14.920 So now we're a family of four instead of a 2:09:14.920 --> 2:09:18.400 family of six. We got a rising jr. And a 2:09:18.560 --> 2:09:21.520 rising seventh grader still here at the house. Be sure 2:09:21.520 --> 2:09:24.160 to catch live editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay 2:09:24.200 --> 2:09:27.480 Travis week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. 2:09:28.200 --> 2:09:30.160 We're talking to Kirk Herbster he wins and the losses. 2:09:30.160 --> 2:09:31.920 I know I said last question a long time ago. 2:09:31.960 --> 2:09:34.800 I actually mean the last question here you have said, like, 2:09:34.920 --> 2:09:36.800 I don't want to put myself in the category with 2:09:36.880 --> 2:09:40.680 Keith Jackson of the world. But I think right now, 2:09:40.720 --> 2:09:42.880 if you probably did, it's a it's a cliche and 2:09:42.920 --> 2:09:45.840 a trend in sports to do the Mount Rushmore. I 2:09:45.840 --> 2:09:48.960 think you're close, if not already on there to being 2:09:49.000 --> 2:09:53.840 on the Mount Rushmore. For college football fans, you may 2:09:53.880 --> 2:09:57.920 not want to accept it, but for for for people 2:09:58.160 --> 2:10:00.240 that you know, if you right now, we're pick for 2:10:00.440 --> 2:10:02.879 people to put on the Mount Rushmore of college football. 2:10:03.360 --> 2:10:06.160 Certainly from the calling perspective, you mentioned how many Rose 2:10:06.160 --> 2:10:10.040 Bowls you've called. The College Football Playoff replacing the BCS. 2:10:10.120 --> 2:10:12.080 I know you called some of those BCS games, but 2:10:12.120 --> 2:10:14.920 now the College Football Playoff just makes it so much bigger. 2:10:14.960 --> 2:10:17.600 I feel like you're not an old guy now you've 2:10:17.640 --> 2:10:19.440 got a lot of years, especially if you look at 2:10:19.480 --> 2:10:22.120 the Brent Musburgers of the world and look at Billy Packer, 2:10:22.240 --> 2:10:25.440 even like how long you can call games because people 2:10:25.480 --> 2:10:27.440 get used to your voice and get used to you 2:10:27.560 --> 2:10:31.280 being there. How wild is that too? Here, as a 2:10:31.360 --> 2:10:33.680 kid who grew up a fan of college football, to 2:10:33.760 --> 2:10:36.360 think I am one of whether you want to admit 2:10:36.400 --> 2:10:39.280 it or not, you are the most iconic faces associated 2:10:39.320 --> 2:10:43.400 with college football, that blows me away. I mean, it's 2:10:44.200 --> 2:10:49.200 it's saying. I mean, if people would ever view me 2:10:49.320 --> 2:10:54.280 that way and that way, I mean, that's that's that's 2:10:54.760 --> 2:10:56.920 for me, That'd be a pretty good thing to be 2:10:57.040 --> 2:11:00.240 remembered by, because, like I said, I would just a 2:11:00.320 --> 2:11:04.040 kid growing up in Southwest Ohio and it's and around 2:11:04.120 --> 2:11:07.120 and love sports and just happened to love college football 2:11:07.240 --> 2:11:10.720 and and too lucky enough to be able to play 2:11:10.720 --> 2:11:12.280 it and not lucky enough to be able to cover 2:11:12.320 --> 2:11:15.560 it and talk about it. And you know, I I 2:11:15.680 --> 2:11:20.839 have always tried to make my job about the players 2:11:20.880 --> 2:11:23.160 and about the coaches and about the storyline. That's I 2:11:23.200 --> 2:11:26.120 think part of the reason I like the NFL. I 2:11:26.200 --> 2:11:30.360 love college football, and I I try to get out 2:11:30.360 --> 2:11:33.280 of the way of those stories. And I think people 2:11:33.280 --> 2:11:35.200 have asked me all the time, man, what do you 2:11:35.240 --> 2:11:36.920 get tired of it and get bored of it? I'm like, 2:11:37.000 --> 2:11:40.200 not at all, how can you? I mean, things turn 2:11:40.280 --> 2:11:43.400 over all the time. I mean there's players that come 2:11:43.440 --> 2:11:46.080 and go, and there's great players and great stories that 2:11:46.200 --> 2:11:48.320 come and go. They'll be you know, crank it up 2:11:48.360 --> 2:11:50.680 this year in a couple of weeks and we'll have 2:11:50.760 --> 2:11:54.960 new players start to surface and new stories and and 2:11:55.000 --> 2:11:57.240 so for me, I think that's the great thing about it. 2:11:57.240 --> 2:12:02.680 But yeah, I can't even fathom that, Like, if people 2:12:02.680 --> 2:12:04.480 would ever think of me in that way like that, 2:12:04.480 --> 2:12:07.440 that would that would really blow me away, And it 2:12:07.440 --> 2:12:11.240 would be an incredible honor because the way I've always 2:12:11.320 --> 2:12:14.920 looked at at those guys and the guys that called 2:12:14.960 --> 2:12:17.760 the game is the most notably Keys, but there's been 2:12:17.800 --> 2:12:20.160 so many others, whether it's brand or I go back 2:12:20.160 --> 2:12:22.560 to like Bill Fleming and Chris Schenko. I mean, they're 2:12:22.480 --> 2:12:25.920 just amazing guys from but even Al Michaels when he 2:12:25.960 --> 2:12:29.160 was younger, Uh a great job with college football. So 2:12:29.720 --> 2:12:34.960 um yeah, it's that's uh something. One day, way down 2:12:35.000 --> 2:12:36.960 the road, I'll look back at and think about it 2:12:37.480 --> 2:12:41.280 right now. I just keep trying to prepare and uh 2:12:41.360 --> 2:12:43.960 and be ready to go for the next game. We'll 2:12:44.000 --> 2:12:45.960 be watching this fall as we have been for a 2:12:46.000 --> 2:12:48.839 long time. Kirk Herbstreet has been our guest. I appreciate 2:12:48.840 --> 2:12:51.000 the time. I know it's it's been a long conversation, 2:12:51.040 --> 2:12:54.200 but it feels like the snap of fingers to me. Dide, 2:12:54.240 --> 2:12:59.560 you have cornered the market on questions like take a 2:12:59.640 --> 2:13:03.800 clad for this or something like you really or good 2:13:03.840 --> 2:13:08.400 at asking questions. You know what I think is what 2:13:08.480 --> 2:13:10.400 would I want? I've I've never done it, you know. 2:13:10.440 --> 2:13:12.480 I used to when I was a practicing attorney. I 2:13:12.480 --> 2:13:14.280 would sit down and I would have to write out 2:13:14.320 --> 2:13:16.440 a list of questions, you know, to think about for 2:13:16.480 --> 2:13:19.600 a case, and I try to listen to the answers, 2:13:19.640 --> 2:13:21.720 but then ask the question that if I were out 2:13:21.760 --> 2:13:23.720 there listening, you know, you're talking about how you call 2:13:23.840 --> 2:13:26.440 the game so that you know you want to And 2:13:26.480 --> 2:13:27.960 I think that's the key. You don't want to appeal 2:13:28.000 --> 2:13:29.600 to the six year old and the eighty year old. 2:13:29.960 --> 2:13:33.280 I think, what would I want to hear somebody in 2:13:33.320 --> 2:13:35.400 your position to answer and try to get out of 2:13:35.400 --> 2:13:38.280 the way. Most of the time because what I find is, uh, 2:13:38.720 --> 2:13:40.880 usually you know, like there aren't that many forms. That's 2:13:40.960 --> 2:13:43.120 kind of the goal of this, right is to give 2:13:43.120 --> 2:13:46.040 people a chance to actually speak in something other than 2:13:46.080 --> 2:13:48.720 a ten second clip, right, which is great. People are 2:13:48.800 --> 2:13:51.320 great at at clips and everything else, but you don't 2:13:51.320 --> 2:13:53.160 really get to know them. And the thing I love 2:13:53.200 --> 2:13:56.600 about radio is and now this podcast form. I think 2:13:56.600 --> 2:13:58.840 the people who have finished this conversation are gonna be like, Man, 2:13:58.880 --> 2:14:01.360 I've watched Kurk Kirk Street on Game Day for twenty 2:14:01.360 --> 2:14:04.000 four years, but I feel like I really know a 2:14:04.000 --> 2:14:06.480 lot more about him now than I did before I 2:14:06.480 --> 2:14:09.000 started the conversation, before I started listening, And that's kind 2:14:09.000 --> 2:14:13.360 of the goal. H you got it now, And honestly, 2:14:13.400 --> 2:14:15.480 I remember talking when you when you wrote that article 2:14:15.600 --> 2:14:18.400 years ago. I remember walking out of there and thinking, man, 2:14:18.440 --> 2:14:21.000 he has he has good questions and you just did 2:14:21.000 --> 2:14:25.600 it again. So obviously that's your thing. This podcast is great, 2:14:25.640 --> 2:14:28.880 but that that could be a future TV show for 2:14:28.920 --> 2:14:30.680 you too, or you can sit down with a guest 2:14:30.720 --> 2:14:33.400 and and ask him questions. That would be it would 2:14:33.400 --> 2:14:36.160 be a huge success. Yeah, I think it'd be a 2:14:36.200 --> 2:14:38.080 lot of fun, but a key is having guests who 2:14:38.160 --> 2:14:40.240 come on and answer questions honestly like you just did. 2:14:40.280 --> 2:14:42.560 So thanks. So you can follow Kirk at Kirk herb 2:14:42.640 --> 2:14:44.760 Street on Twitter if you want to follow him give 2:14:44.840 --> 2:14:46.680 him feedback on this. It would be actually, I hope 2:14:46.720 --> 2:14:49.040 positive as opposed to going after him because he picked 2:14:49.040 --> 2:14:51.040 the team you don't you didn't want to win. Uh 2:14:51.080 --> 2:14:53.200 And like I said, we'll be watching you on on 2:14:53.520 --> 2:14:58.680 ESPN and ABC all fall along and for years to come. Awesome, man, great, 2:14:58.760 --> 2:15:01.240 great talking to you. Hope to see you soon. Yeah, 2:15:01.280 --> 2:15:03.400 for sure. That's Kirk curb Street. I'm Clay Travis. This 2:15:03.440 --> 2:15:06.440 has been Wins and Losses. If you enjoy it, give 2:15:06.520 --> 2:15:08.360 us a rating on the podcast and go listen to 2:15:08.400 --> 2:15:10.600 some of the other conversations. I think you guys will 2:15:10.680 --> 2:15:13.000 enjoy them. Hey, that